Bill Maher on Hating Donald Trump, the Far Left and 69ing

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Speaker 1 Welcome to Pond Save America. I'm John Lovitt.
We're up and running with our Sunday shows. These episodes are going to be coming out every other weekend.

Speaker 1 We'll give John, Tommy, Dan, and me a chance to have deeper conversations with a range of interesting people.

Speaker 1 My guest this week is television host, political commentator, and stand-up stand-up comedian Bill Maher. Welcome, Bill.

Speaker 1 That's the audience cheering. Oh, yeah, that's the huge.

Speaker 1 What do you do if you have a guest who has no arms? Well, we have

Speaker 1 that. Oh, then you just go to a boom mic.
Could I get that? You want the boom mic? No, I'm kidding. I'm just fucking with you.

Speaker 1 No, it's an important.

Speaker 1 Honestly, that's why you're here. No one's ever asked us that question before.
After an hour, doesn't your arm get tired of holding the mic?

Speaker 1 I shouldn't say that I've been a stand-up comedian my whole life. All I do is stand on stage.
Hold the mic, you can switch hands, but it's different when you're in the street.

Speaker 1 You got a little microphone. Yeah, I do.

Speaker 1 So I'm sure you got that. Go ahead, ask me your hard-hitting questions.

Speaker 1 Stop interrupting. I started.
All right, welcome to you. Okay, that's done.

Speaker 1 We like to start each episode with a land acknowledgement.

Speaker 1 We are on the land once occupied by Jeffrey Katzenberg and Quibby. That's funny.

Speaker 1 I just did a special on HBO, and

Speaker 1 I did a whole thing about land acknowledgement. And I mean, it is just the epitome of...
And I see that

Speaker 1 at the recent DNC meeting, they still did it. Like, talk about

Speaker 1 not getting it after the election laws.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I thought you might not like a land acknowledgement. No, I mean, they still actually did it for real.
Well, you know, teach your own.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, keep going down that road and, you know, see where it leads you.

Speaker 1 But, you know, it's just people are not politically savvy I don't feel in America but they have they they know when you're full of shit and it's like you know land acknowledgement either give it back or shut the fuck up I think is what most people are thinking yeah I thought I might set you off

Speaker 1 it seems like it worked all right so now I want to start with this because I just realized that Politically Incorrect is about to be 30 years old. More.

Speaker 1 Because it started in 93,

Speaker 1 and I think we're we're in 25. Starting in 93.
Yeah. Well, I remember watching it.

Speaker 1 It was on Comedy Central, then it moved to ABC. Correct.
But I could only watch it because Comedy Central re-aired it in the afternoons. I didn't know that.
And so I would,

Speaker 1 it has to be true. But I would come home from school.
Wow. And I would watch it every day when I got home from school.
Well, I did it for the kids. It felt like that.
It felt like that.

Speaker 1 I mean, some nights it did.

Speaker 1 Some nights it was just so ridiculous well i it was very i was i actually was thinking about it it was very formative for me and i went back and i watched the first episode of politically incorrect the very first the very first episode who was on uh jerry seinfeldt right and jerry you you asked right you asked jerry seinfeld uh about

Speaker 1 a question about uh whether or not pedophiles should have to have signs on their lawns. And he gives you this look like, I'm here as a fucking favor.
I do jokes about cornflakes.

Speaker 1 What are you doing to me? me that's hysterical I don't remember I remember Jerry of course such a great friend forever great guy never changed

Speaker 1 absolutely and he was at you know the his show was doing great so it was it was a great favor

Speaker 1 and I don't remember the question about the but we didn't ask questions we we presented topics on that old show

Speaker 1 every question

Speaker 1 I wrote the that first season I had I wrote them all myself word for word.

Speaker 1 Did we even have writers? I think we had a couple, but we had like, this is before people look shit up on the internet. Like we had researchers

Speaker 1 who had to like go to the stacks or something. I don't know.
It seems like it was from the Middle Ages. But

Speaker 1 I would present a provocative,

Speaker 1 not saying things that I didn't. believe or think should be discussed.
I wasn't just doing it for the sake. And it would always end with, does anybody have a problem with that?

Speaker 1 And when we put out a book from the show, it was called, you know, the best of politically incorrect. Does anybody have a problem with that? So like, pedophiles

Speaker 1 stand on the, what was it they should? Put a sign in their lawn, something to that effect.

Speaker 1 I mean, don't they kind of do that anyway now? I mean, it isn't, don't you have to register? I think that's what this was about.

Speaker 1 It was about registering and people being, it was about public shaming and who should be shamed and who shouldn't be shamed. It was very 90s.

Speaker 1 John, isn't it so fucking quaint that we lived in an era where that was the kind of problem as opposed to the things the shit show that's going on now and the things that are so much more existential shall we say not that it isn't an issue but come on no there was there was something about it and that's why i wanted to get to it

Speaker 1 and we'll get to it because seinfeld is like what the fuck am i doing here and then

Speaker 1 and and like and then ed rollins who was perot's campaign rollins yeah it was like very he was it was it was yes and it really like put me like put me back into a different time But there is one moment where Seinfeld lights up because it was about polling and focus grouping and how, whether it was valuable or not valuable.

Speaker 1 And suddenly there really was an interesting moment between. There were many interesting moments.
What sort of backhanded uncompliment is that?

Speaker 1 Just so unbelievable. Take a compliment.
I'm saying I'm watching the episode and all of a sudden the pilot, you suddenly see the magic that you were trying to get in this show.

Speaker 1 I wasn't saying it was the only moment. I'm saying there was a moment amongst several.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Are you okay? Not really, but okay, fine. I don't care.

Speaker 1 Where all of a sudden you have Ed Rollins and you have Jerry Seinfeld talking about what they both know about, which is polling and focus grouping and where it works and where it doesn't work. And

Speaker 1 what I was wondering is what you were trying to get out of having comedians and celebrities sitting across from politicians and experts.

Speaker 1 I always described it as a designed train wreck. That's why it was funny.
And as you say, sometimes there was great enlightenment from that. The idea was everyone in America votes.

Speaker 1 We all get to vote, whether we're Harvard educated, although few people are that stupid,

Speaker 1 or

Speaker 1 the lowliest mechanic who's

Speaker 1 only finished eighth grade or something. We all get to vote.
We don't all know the same thing or come from the same background, but this is a democracy.

Speaker 1 And let's pair the least likely people to ever be in the same room together at the same cocktail party and have them talk. And yeah,

Speaker 1 what was great about that show was that when it was good, like you say, there were moments that were really good. But even when it was bad, it was just like the bad was kind of good.

Speaker 1 Comfortable and interesting. Right.
It really was. I really did watch it every day when I got home from school.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I mean, some nights it was so awful, it was like you had to, you reveled in the awfulness.

Speaker 1 But there was, you know, you you talk about how things have changed. And I want to talk about how the media has changed and also how the parties have changed.

Speaker 1 But in terms of the media, there was an episode where it's really interesting. You brought on Sarah Silverman and you brought on this.

Speaker 1 What? No, I'm just the, I mean, I love Sarah and she's still a friend. But I mean, just, it's just funny to hear these names from the past.
And I don't remember her on that show.

Speaker 1 I remember her on real time. But

Speaker 1 she was on. She was on.
Well, what was really interesting. She must have been really young.

Speaker 1 She was. And it was, and you brought her on and an activist.
He was an Asian-American activist who was angry about a joke she told that used the word chink. I think that was real time.

Speaker 1 I don't think that was political. No, no, it was politically correct.
Okay. I'm sure of it.
And it was really important to you.

Speaker 1 They'd both been criticizing each other in public and gone back and forth. Well, can I give you a little of the history? Sarah made a joke.

Speaker 1 You know, look, it was a different era. I think she has since me accoupled about that.

Speaker 1 She's gone back on a lot of stuff. You know, she says

Speaker 1 she went more toward like, oh, no, I shouldn't have said that, as opposed to some comics who were like, we've gotten too sensitive. That would be me.
Right. Yeah.
Clearly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, I get that. Yeah.
And we have. Right.
And I'm right about that. Sure.
Yeah, that's easy. But, you know,

Speaker 1 but you know, she, everybody has their truth.

Speaker 1 Well, surprise,

Speaker 1 she thought about it. Like, just take it in the most generous way.
I'm just having thought thought about it in a volume.

Speaker 1 Even if we wouldn't do it today, do we have to go back and dig up the past and yell at ourselves? When here's the thing, like, whatever it was back then, like, most people were okay with it.

Speaker 1 It wasn't mean-spirited. She got in trouble also once for a sketch she did, which was an anti-racist sketch.

Speaker 1 Okay, but we sort of glossed over. nuance at a certain point.
And so, you know, I don't know if it was necessary to be like, I'm history's greatest monster because I did this.

Speaker 1 Like, no, I thought I was doing the right thing. And at the time, usually nobody else said anything.
So it was obvious that's where the country was.

Speaker 1 Anyway, she did a joke with some sort of Asian reference. I don't remember what it was.
And the person from the Asian

Speaker 1 media organization that was critical of the way Asian people were portrayed. Right, correct.

Speaker 1 He objected. And so I guess I had them on to hash it out.
Yes. And look, I think people evolve.

Speaker 1 I like, you know, they went back and like stopped airing certain episodes of the golden girls and cut things out of certain shows, and I think that's ridiculous, right?

Speaker 1 Because there's let's just, this was the past, and it was different, even though shows are look modern and maybe and we should be able to see those things.

Speaker 1 That's obvious, but but but I wanted to see the golden girls there. There was a pretty racist episode of the golden girls, but let's just there was, but I think let people see it.
Who cares?

Speaker 1 But I'm not, I'm not talking about that. I want to talk about this specific episode for sure.

Speaker 1 And like when they're like putting warnings on God on Gone with the Wind, it's like Gone with the Wind sucks, but not because it's racist. It is racist, but that's not why it sucks.
It's awesome.

Speaker 1 It doesn't suck. Okay.
But we'll get back to it. We'll get back to Gone with the Wind.
We'll talk about movies at the end.

Speaker 1 Let's challenge our assumptions. But

Speaker 1 the reason I bring up the Sarah Silverman moment, who I love and think is an incredible comedian, and she's sharp in that debate as well, is it was really important in that.

Speaker 1 moment where you said, you know what? Let's have the debate right here and have it in front of everybody and let people hash it out. And you talk about how things are different.

Speaker 1 And what's striking is like, you think about that moment. And

Speaker 1 there wasn't public forums for people to have debates.

Speaker 1 There was television. There was radio and television.
Some newspaper op-eds. People could write a letter to the editor.

Speaker 1 But for the most part, political conversations on television weren't about or next to the political culture. They were the political culture.
And if you got people together and had the debate,

Speaker 1 the 1,000 people that got to have an opinion on television would see it and it would impact them, right? And

Speaker 1 you could really feel the impact of debate. And we don't live in that world anymore.
It's a very different world. We do on my show.
Well, that's. I love doing that.
I mean, and you're right.

Speaker 1 Most shows don't do that. I mean, you don't see much debate on cable news.
I mean, CNN has a panel,

Speaker 1 but you know, that guy who I, what did I call him, Lonely Scott?

Speaker 1 The one.

Speaker 1 Lonely Scott. What is his name? Yeah,

Speaker 1 anyways. Lonely Scott Jennings.
Are we talking about that? Yes, yes. Scott Jennings.
It's like six people.

Speaker 1 And then after like they all do whatever they're going to say, and usually I agree with those people, then Lonely Scott gets to talk. But, you know, I do like having

Speaker 1 an actual debate. I mean,

Speaker 1 this idea that they have

Speaker 1 some people that you shouldn't platform.

Speaker 1 You know, I mean, I've lost fans, certainly, and even like people who were friends, kind of, because they were so mad at me that I had on real time people like Ted Cruz and Bill Barr.

Speaker 1 Okay, he was the attorney general. You know, I'm not going to talk to this man.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 we've talked about that here. And I think in the early years of this company, we were much more reluctant in part because we were trying to, I think, be it just a platform for progressive voices.

Speaker 1 But as we've grown, we've realized that we want to have more conservative voices on to challenge them

Speaker 1 because we want to be at the center of that kind of a debate. And be challenged.

Speaker 1 And maybe, and of course be challenged, and of course be challenged but the reason I'm not one of them you know they think the the far left thinks I am I I'm I put out a book and a stand-up special in the last six months both to make the point and in great detail you've changed not me yeah

Speaker 1 I want to I want to come back to that in a second I want to stay on debate only because

Speaker 1 What I felt when I was watching those old episodes is a kind of nostalgia for a culture where debate matters. Like you still do the kinds of debates you did back then.

Speaker 1 They do it with more kind of serious people. There's fewer Christine Donalds popping up.

Speaker 1 It's not carrot topped with bomb dollars. Well, there was another on that episode where Sarah Silverman and this activist are talking.
At what point I forgot he was even there.

Speaker 1 David Spade was sitting there in fucking silence. And you turned to David Spade and you're like, so David Spade, what do you think? And he's like, fuck you, Bill.
How about that?

Speaker 1 I don't want to be here. What am I doing here? I'm in Tommy Boy.
Why are you asking me this really hard question?

Speaker 1 That's always what was so, I mean, you said Seinfeld basically had the same reaction. Like, what am I doing here?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but, you know, when you drag people out of their comfort zone, it does produce a kind of real television that, unfortunately, yeah, you don't, you don't get a lot.

Speaker 1 And of course, you know, it's not everybody's cup of tea. Yeah, it used to exist more in

Speaker 1 like the olds, before they went live to tape, when like Carson was truly live and there were just things would go wrong right there'd be no Carson was not live when there would be like moments early on in the early years and there yeah you got you got like

Speaker 1 just like drunks on the stage and they're and he's like I gotta get out of here drunks there was an episode where like I want to say like Peter what's his name Peter Lawford Peter Lawford and two other people in a movie that we've all forgotten are on their promotional tour and they're just drunk they're just drunk I just don't think they thought it it was that awful.

Speaker 1 And by the way, it's happened since then. I don't know if you remember the Cheers finale.
I'm not sure what year that would be. Cheers.
But I remember that. When they were all just blitz.

Speaker 1 Blitz to the guild. Yeah, good stuff.

Speaker 1 This is Leno hosting. And they were, you know, just falling all each other over each other on the couch, drooling and laughing.

Speaker 1 And I mean, poor Jay was like, he was not in on the private jokes between this cast, who were in an emotional state after doing this groundbreaking show for 10 years or whatever it was.

Speaker 1 And now they had their finale and then they had their party and now they're on with Jay.

Speaker 1 And they were drunk. So I don't know.
I think they talk later about how the mistake was there wasn't a meal. There needed to be food.
Yeah, I mean, they were young and drunk and it's funny.

Speaker 1 Drunk is funny.

Speaker 1 Drunk is funny. Yeah.
Drunk is funny. But no.
No, but it's not just, of course it can be sad, but we don't have to always just dwell on the sad.

Speaker 1 Dean Martin was funny. Yeah.
And he wasn't even really drunk. A lot of the times he was really drunk.

Speaker 1 No, I don't think he was.

Speaker 1 I think that was a big myth.

Speaker 1 Yes, I hear that was an act.

Speaker 1 Dean was like, he played golf and then he was in bed at nine. He was that guy.
Maybe when he was younger. I don't know.
Frank was a big drinker.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there was a I sometimes think that like the reason there's such a focus on cancel culture is because it used to be more fun to be a celebrity.

Speaker 1 Like you could drive your car through a plate glass window and like tip somebody 500 bucks and nobody heard about it. Yeah, Frank Frank and Ava shot up Palm Springs once and it was just like

Speaker 1 just under the rug. Well, I mean, there's people do things today.
I mean, Kanye, come on. Well, he's not exactly.
We know about it. I know, but like he wasn't canceled for it.

Speaker 1 He did, he said Hitler was, I love Hitler, and nobody pulled his Super Bowl ad like three days later. So it seems like you think cancel culture is needed.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying some people get away with shit that other people don't. It's very uneven.

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Speaker 1 Where's your head on social media right now? What do you mean? Well, like, is it, are you using it? I, you know, I feel conflicted about it.

Speaker 1 I think it's a corrupt force destroying the human soul, but I also get good recipes from it. Good recipes.
Yeah, TikTok, you get good recipes. It was a viral Turkish pasta I made.

Speaker 1 Have you heard about the viral Turkish pasta? Yeah, no, I'm from a different generation, and I got a shit ton of money. I got cooks and chefs.

Speaker 1 I don't need social media. I got assistants.
I'm so glad that I'm that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it sounds good.

Speaker 1 It's awesome.

Speaker 1 It is.

Speaker 1 And it just seems like a bunch of hatred and vitriol. And yes, of course, can you learn learn things? I don't have enough time in the day to read and absorb the things I do want to read and absorb.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 I want to read the New York Times, even though it's not the paper I grew up with, and it's crazy slanted. But I also want to read Andrew Sullivan, and I want to read the free press.

Speaker 1 I'd rather be in that world of smart people. I want to listen to your podcast and Sam Harris's podcast.

Speaker 1 You know, smart, smart, engaging conversation, mostly from people who are not ideologically captured, that's what I want to immerse myself in. I don't want to immerse myself in that world.

Speaker 1 And I'm just very bad at technology. It's not native to me because of when I grew up.
I'm 70, basically. You're 70? Not really, but I'm saying that because

Speaker 1 it's next year and I can't, 69, there's a funny bit in my special about that.

Speaker 1 When you're 69, it's just everybody just puts their elbow in your ribs like it's funny and it's just a terrible name number so oh because it because of the sexual position that's my bit is it because of uh putting uh because you flip around and then it's head to gender everyone like talks about it as if anyone has ever done it or enjoyed it or can do it it's a multitasking thing that you can't do we've all tried i've tried it doesn't work you know if someone you can't go down on a girl while she's sucking your dick i just can't think about it it's just too hard.

Speaker 1 Anyway, that's the point about that. So I was going to get to 69ing later, but we've just covered it so that we can move on.

Speaker 1 Yes, the point is, like, I'm not native to a lot of this stuff. And the more I, I mean, how many books

Speaker 1 does Jonathan Haidt have to put out about it? How many times do I have to have guests who talk about how awful and vitriolic it is and what it's doing to young kids? Why would I jump into this pool?

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 I mean, if there's one turd in the pool, bad enough. This just seems like a pool of turds.
Yeah, I think that's right.

Speaker 1 I think you don't need to go there, especially with the chef, because then you don't need the recipes. Because I go there.
You definitely don't need the recipes.

Speaker 1 You should tell your chef about the viral Turkish pasta.

Speaker 1 I don't eat pasta. You don't eat pasta.
Is that a keto thing? What are we eating?

Speaker 1 Well, we're not eating carbs like not bread, not pasta, not rice. Wow.

Speaker 1 I mean, occasionally, you know, I'm not a crazy person, but no, just I wouldn't want to keep that around the house or have them, if someone's going to cook for me, they're going to cook good, you know.

Speaker 1 I've said to her, look, I'll never get mad at you if I don't like, if it's not an appealing dish, I'll only get mad at you if it's not healthy. And do you worry about losing touch? Nope.

Speaker 1 Not at all.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 1 Like what? Should I be going to Ralph's? And that would elucidate me somehow on maybe.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 here's what I I actually do. I do go to the supermarket once in a while.
I do like to purposely see what's out there and see if there's food out there, especially that I'm not aware of.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 I don't know. Yes, you do have to do that.
But I am not out of touch. No.
Well,

Speaker 1 there's a lot of new kinds of Oreos. They're doing new flavors all the time.
Yeah, Oreos I wouldn't eat. I already made that decision about Oreos decades ago.
Oh. No Oreos.
That's too bad.

Speaker 1 Well, you know what? When you're 70, first of all, you're on a much shorter leash health-wise. You've got to be very,

Speaker 1 you can stay exactly and live exactly as you always did. It's funny.
When I was your age, I would have never thought I'd be like this at 70.

Speaker 1 I thought life would be completely different because that's how Americans present it. Like you're completely decrepit and you're like one foot in the grave.

Speaker 1 And my father was, you know, he would go out to the basketball court, the court, the driveway, and shoot one basket and be like, oh, and he was 53 or something. It just doesn't have to be that way.

Speaker 1 I found out when I got there.

Speaker 1 Of course, I never got married, so that's a big difference. You know, you become like something different as opposed to just always staying the same.
Well, you got to get out there. Why?

Speaker 1 Well, just got to be out there. You got to be single.
You got to be.

Speaker 1 Aya, the tiger. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You got to stay fit. You got to stay hot.
You got to stay hot. You don't want to be out there.
You do the best you can.

Speaker 1 That's all you could do. Because here's the thing.
When you fall in love with somebody, stop caring what they look like. But you got to get through that first step.
Did that happen to you?

Speaker 1 uh not yet not yet thanks for asking obviously not look how good i look nothing i have to really worry about yet yeah you look great oh thanks for saying that how old are you i am 42.

Speaker 1 that's you look great for 42 i look great for 42. i mean well i'll be gay 22

Speaker 1 you have a loop youthful look about you yeah i don't think that what i do works if i get older i don't think that's a good attitude to go into probably not no i i really i really don't think that's i agree no no and by the way ai is going to fix all this oh i hope so Totally.

Speaker 1 I mean, there is a chance that even me at 70, wink, wink, not quite,

Speaker 1 will not die. Like say, because you could live to 100.
In 30 years, I can't imagine AI, which is working exponentially.

Speaker 1 What was that thing that Google just came up with that I just read this, that it figured out something that supercomputers

Speaker 1 before this would have taken something like 10 septillion million years or whatever was older than the time of the universe to figure out what now it did in five minutes. Right.

Speaker 1 They had that new quantum computer that I find in two minutes. That's what I'm talking about.
Yes, the quantum computer. Yeah, maybe that'll fix it.
Well, there's that guy that's trying to seem young.

Speaker 1 You know that guy? I had him on my podcast. He seems out of his fucking gourd.
I'd rather live to 100. I would rather die at 70 living the way I live than live to 250 the way he lives.

Speaker 1 You won't say that when you're 69, first of all. Nice.
And also.

Speaker 1 And also,

Speaker 1 he's not crazy, although he is a little crazy. And I said the same thing.

Speaker 1 I said, Brian, and he's a sweet guy. I liked him a lot.

Speaker 1 I said, Brian, like, okay, so he's 46, but he's like, chronologically, he's 37. I said, so you go to bed at 8.30.

Speaker 1 You never eat anything except like these fucking pebbles or whatever the fuck you're eating.

Speaker 1 He's eating kind of kind of human chow. Right.
Like

Speaker 1 kibble. I eat pretty strictly, but I still enjoy eating and you can do that.
And goes to bed at 8.30 and all this. I said,

Speaker 1 all this to shave nine years off. I said, you know, people think I look a little younger than my age.

Speaker 1 So like I apparently shaved six or seven years off by smoking pot and not getting married and drinking too much when I was younger. So like, what's the point?

Speaker 1 Well, also, you know, all the studies also show that like the most, what's, what's the key to longevity? It's happy, close relationships. It's a bunch of like social

Speaker 1 things. And I got to say, who wants to hang out with a guy that's like, I got to go to bed.
It's 8.30. I got to get him in the morning and eat my kibble.
You know, it's not like a friend.

Speaker 1 It's not like a great friend situation. You know what I'm saying? Let me say this in his defense.

Speaker 1 First of all, I'm glad he's my new best friend because this guy is working more than anybody else to find out where the cutting edge is on keeping us healthy.

Speaker 1 He gave me some of the stuff that he uses and sells and some of this, much of it I've been doing my own self for quite a while.

Speaker 1 I don't think most people take glutathione, but I get it, and I had it, and he uses it.

Speaker 1 But he's going to tell me, he's going to hit me to everything I need to know that I can do, not in the levels that he does it.

Speaker 1 And also,

Speaker 1 listen to this. I said, you know,

Speaker 1 We're leaving and I have my podcast

Speaker 1 where I party, and

Speaker 1 it's a different house. I wouldn't party in my own house knowing me.

Speaker 1 No life.

Speaker 1 Andy's Andy's in touch.

Speaker 1 And I am in touch. And I said, you know, it's too bad, Brian.
You know, I have parties here sometimes. The cameras are off and we just enjoy it.

Speaker 1 I had this for 20 years and I partied here before we made it into a podcast studio. It's too bad you go to bed at 8.30.
It doesn't usually get going until 10 or 11. And he said, here's what I'll do.

Speaker 1 I'll go to bed. I'll get my...
REM sleep. So you need REM sleep and deep sleep.
And then I'll wake up from my REM sleep.

Speaker 1 I'll come here for an hour and a half and party with you and I'll go back and I'll get my deep sleep. And I thought, that's a guy who's willing to kind of bend a little.
Sure. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 To get up from your REM sleep, party with me and go back to your deep sleep. And he's having a tea or something, I assume.

Speaker 1 He's definitely not going to be drinking and smoking with you. Sounds like a great hang.

Speaker 1 He said the same thing. But in his defense.
You know you're all going to die.

Speaker 1 But in his defense, he talks about his amazing erections. Yeah, yes.

Speaker 1 A lot. Yes, that's, first of all, good to hear that that's happening in person as well, because he also talks about his son's erections.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 I know. I know.
This got weird. I'm sorry.
I got to go.

Speaker 1 So now you talked about you not really changing. And that actually was

Speaker 1 politically. No, I'm not.
No, politically. Well.

Speaker 1 That's what I took away going back and watching some of the original shows, which is that like you said you say that that your politics hasn't changed that that that the that the right went where it went and the left went super woke, and that you're the same.

Speaker 1 And it's like, how often are you using

Speaker 1 it's not you, it's me when you're breaking up with somebody?

Speaker 1 That's a good question. That's funny.

Speaker 1 Are you serious about that?

Speaker 1 I'll take a political answer or a human answer. Well, this,

Speaker 1 I'm not going to get very specific about this because this is like personal life stuff, and I like to keep that opaque.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 you know, look,

Speaker 1 if somebody is my age,

Speaker 1 and we remember what that is because it keeps coming up. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they've never been married. And you've never been married.
Right.

Speaker 1 It's either for one of two main reasons. Either they don't like girls or they like them a lot.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to keep it vague like that. So let's talk about politics.

Speaker 1 Happy to leave that vague.

Speaker 1 We've got a lot of 69 topics. And there's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong with that. Why can't everybody, you know, it's so funny.

Speaker 1 If I came out as gay tomorrow, the whole town here in Hollywood would be like, oh my God, that's the greatest thing in the world.

Speaker 1 Because we all should just be who we are.

Speaker 1 I was born that way. Remember when that was a, yeah, this is how I was born.

Speaker 1 That's how I was drawn. This is what I want.
I never wanted to get married. I never thought it worked.
And what I mostly see is that it

Speaker 1 when it does,

Speaker 1 even when it works, it works at what I consider a tremendous price.

Speaker 1 I mean, you said longevity. What did you say before?

Speaker 1 Having healthy relationships contributes to longevity. So does sex.
Right. Which is sometimes in confrontation with a healthy relationship.

Speaker 1 With a long-term relationship where the love is deep, it's very hard to keep that going with the sex part going.

Speaker 1 Not with that attitude.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 I wish that it was just attitude that could solve it, but every marriage in the world will tell you that it's not just attitude.

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Speaker 1 Onto the politics.

Speaker 1 You brought it up. I did bring it up.
And I know that. And everyone's hearing it.
They know that. They know that I brought it up.
People like this. They like people.
They're like politics schmolitics.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 We're keeping it loose. We're keeping it loose.
It's Bill. We don't have to fucking always be.
And we can go right to the politics because that's what I love about podcasting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We can do whatever we want. There's no, we can, we'd.
Look at all the cards you have there. Yeah.
There's like, do we have to get all through all those before I can go? No, I'll skip. Wow.
I'll skip.

Speaker 1 Hey, don't worry. We'll skip through some.
Because these are, that's a lot of cards. Let's see.
Let's see. There's one later that just says trans.

Speaker 1 Your staff makes these for you?

Speaker 1 Yes, they do. They do a great job.

Speaker 1 They're right over there. It's a great team.
It's a great team. So let's talk about other Republicans have changed.

Speaker 1 You said in your special. Trump got the White House again, but he's not going to get your mind.
Is that resolution holding up? Not that well.

Speaker 1 I've got to say it less than it. I also said I wouldn't pre-hate anything, which is true.
I didn't pre-hate, but boy, does the hate come around quickly. I mean, has it been only a month? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's been one month. One month.
One month. I mean, I didn't think it could some of the things.
And there are things that other things I made a list. Like, here's what I already hate.

Speaker 1 Here's things I don't hate yet.

Speaker 1 I can, I mean, there are things that, like, the idea that Gaza could be Dubai instead of,

Speaker 1 you know, this hellhole that it's been.

Speaker 1 Other people have suggested that by way of us taking it over, no.

Speaker 1 You know, starting a new American empire, no.

Speaker 1 This insanity of Zelensky is the dictator.

Speaker 1 Outrageous. I mean, opposite day kind of shit with the Western Alliance.
I mean, there's a whole,

Speaker 1 it's just, yeah, so that resolution is

Speaker 1 being battered already. It's, well, it is.
I mean, look,

Speaker 1 there are some people that claim that they're not surprised by how bad it's been so far.

Speaker 1 I find that hard to believe because in all the, you know, if we knew in October that the planes were going to start bumping, we would have maybe said something, right?

Speaker 1 Like, I don't, nobody was like, hey, and then we may invade Panama. Like, that wasn't anything that, and Kamal Harris wasn't out there being like, and don't forget, we might invade Panama.

Speaker 1 No, that, and Canada, that, that's Canada. That shit all came up, yeah, I think after the election was won.
I don't think it was even strategic.

Speaker 1 I think you give Trump sometimes too much credit for like playing four-dimensional chess, and it's no. He just happened to think of it then.

Speaker 1 I really, I don't think he planned, I'm going to spring this after the election. It's no, like the last guy he talked to said some shit about Canada, and he was like, let's take it over.

Speaker 1 But a lot of this does seem to like, like, you know,

Speaker 1 the fucking, I think

Speaker 1 there's not just a lack of knowledge, but there's a disdain for knowledge that leads, whether it's Elon wandering around government bureaucracies, he knows nothing about cutting at random and then discovering that, oh, that person was working on bird flu, we should probably get him back, or Trump spouting off about the Middle East.

Speaker 1 There's a lack of appreciation for

Speaker 1 expertise and nuance, which is very, very fascist, very authoritarian, which is to say, you know what?

Speaker 1 Yeah, democracy is sometimes slow and complicated, but there's a reason, and there are good reasons. There's a good reason that this is not how we've done things in the past.

Speaker 1 There is value to stability. There's value to the slow and sometimes frustrating work of compromise and change.

Speaker 1 That is my biggest complaint about Trump, is that he does not care about how the American system works or even care to learn how it works.

Speaker 1 In his view, it's just like they elected me, I'm the leader, I talk to other leaders, I'm the leader. Everything else is sort of just background noise, Congress or whatever.

Speaker 1 I mean, some of these things he's done, he has the Congress, he has a Republican Congress. He could do it through Congress.
No, he just does it by executive order.

Speaker 1 But there's always like, you know, a seed of truth in the other side. Yes, government should be slow, but

Speaker 1 you know, the frog in the pot analogy that we use with global warming, which I still think is true, it's the slow.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure that that isn't also the case with a government that ever grows bigger. Nothing is ever canceled.
The debt, I mean, we've been talking about it since Ross Perot.

Speaker 1 At some point,

Speaker 1 and it seems like, well, you know, we keep talking about it, but nothing ever happens. I feel like at some point, just like with global warming, something catastrophic is going to happen.

Speaker 1 But this is the thing. But it's the biggest thing now.
And so, like, again, do I hate the idea of someone going through the government? I mean, Al Gore wanted to do it, and they didn't do it well.

Speaker 1 But, of course, the way he does it, first of all, just like you said, with a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel.

Speaker 1 You can picture a way they could have done it. He could have just shut up for three months while he audited it and then come out with findings.

Speaker 1 That's not the way these people work. That's the bad part of them.
The instinct to do it, the instinct to like have Gaza not be what it always has been.

Speaker 1 And by the way, some of this kind of works because now you see that five different countries, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates,

Speaker 1 Egypt,

Speaker 1 they all said, okay, you know what?

Speaker 1 Trump's going to jump in and turn it into a golf course. Okay, we're working on a plan.
Yeah, somebody has to have a plan for Gaza. And the idea that in the past,

Speaker 1 these

Speaker 1 Arab countries that surround Palestine or the Syrian civil war and wouldn't take any refugees and just wouldn't seem to be wanting to get involved at all to the people who they claim are their brethren and who are the...

Speaker 1 Did a million Syrians really fit better in Germany than they would have in Saudi Arabia?

Speaker 1 There was a congressman, Tom Malinowski, I think, and he said this on the bulwark, and it stuck with me. And he said that

Speaker 1 Trump understands our power, but not our values. And Joe Biden understands our values, but not our power.
And it really stuck with me because

Speaker 1 there are moments where, yeah, you know, Nixon playing crazy, Donald Trump says things that change the contours of a debate, but he does it by proposing ethnic cleansing and some of those ghastly policies that any American president has ever talked about.

Speaker 1 True. You talk about, like, yeah, we need to reform the government.
Yeah, Barack Obama wanted to reform the government, stupidly try to do it through Congress. Big mistake that was.

Speaker 1 But, you know, you talk about, oh, we need to do some of these things. We're worried about the deficit.
We know what

Speaker 1 the source of the deficit is. We know.
It's actually not. The debt.
The debt. We know the source of the debt.
We know the source of the deficit.

Speaker 1 The number of federal workers has not increased as a share of the population. That's static.
So there's not some big behemoth of federal workers. It's lower than it was in the 90s as a share.

Speaker 1 No, I don't think workers is the main problem. The main problem is, as the budget office put out,

Speaker 1 they said between 236 and 521 billion. Billion.
Right. And what is the source of that?

Speaker 1 There's four drivers. Of fraud.
Well, no, it's not fraud.

Speaker 1 It's just stuff that's money that's stolen, basically.

Speaker 1 The source of our deficit and debt are the tax cuts, the Bush tax cuts, the Trump tax cuts, the cost of Medicare, the cost of Medicaid, the cost of Social Security, and the cost of the military.

Speaker 1 That's what drives the cost. That's it.
Then there's cuts to be made and fraud to be found for sure.

Speaker 1 Not to say this was like the number one issue of our time, but do I think that $236 billion at the low end each year just going out the door to fraudsters and thieves is something we should live with and just accept?

Speaker 1 I don't. Of course.
So the instinct to do something about it, and again, it's all nullified when they do it horribly, which he did.

Speaker 1 But the part of this, too, is

Speaker 1 it's not, obviously they have,

Speaker 1 they don't really respect

Speaker 1 debate, right? Like Donald Trump isn't interested or respectful of debate.

Speaker 1 Nor does he need it anymore because he won. And I mean,

Speaker 1 in the past, I mean, he did have to show up to debate. He debated Harris.

Speaker 1 He debated Joe Biden.

Speaker 1 He debated. Tried to kill him with COVID.

Speaker 1 Remember? Like three days later, they're like, yeah, I had a positive test. Whoops.
It's like, you tried to fucking kill Joe Biden. Again, I think you're giving him too much credit.

Speaker 1 I just think he didn't think about it.

Speaker 1 I think he wanted to run against Joe Biden anyway. He shouldn't have he lost.

Speaker 1 And he won't admit that, which is my biggest problem with him. But you host a show that's about the value of debate.
And one of the two sides no longer, they'll use a debate when it's useful.

Speaker 1 They'll use politics, normal politics when it's useful, but they'll cast it aside, right? They'll go through Congress when when they can. They'll ignore it when they can't.

Speaker 1 They'll come on your show and make a case when they can, but they'll say, you're an evil Marxist and all should be ignored when it's not useful. That's really dangerous.
And I, and how, so, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. The speech that Vance

Speaker 1 made to the Germans,

Speaker 1 not the part about

Speaker 1 the semi-Nazi party, but the part about free speech was very valid, in my view.

Speaker 1 They have gone to places in Germany and in England now with free speech that I don't want to live in that country. I mean, did you see the 60 Minutes piece on Germany last week? I didn't.
Really?

Speaker 1 Is 60 Minutes like too old hot for you?

Speaker 1 I catch it now and again. But

Speaker 1 I'm not like click, click, click. I'm not like waiting for the sound every Sunday like I used to when I was a kid.
When I was a kid, I watched it every Sunday. Really? It wasn't a cool kid.

Speaker 1 It was a lot of Bill Maher in 60 Minutes

Speaker 1 and wondering if I was going to get invited to to prom. The answer, I was not.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's get on to your sex rat.

Speaker 1 Okay, so but

Speaker 1 they did a piece, and I found it chilling. Now, of course, Vance's thing about free speech is he has no grounding to stand on because Trump is suing 60 Minutes.
60 Minutes for the crime of editing

Speaker 1 interview.

Speaker 1 And he's suing an Iowa newspaper for putting out a poll he didn't like. You know how many presidents had lawsuits before him? None.
Presidents don't sue people. You don't have to.
He's doing it.

Speaker 1 So they don't have a leg to stand on there. And as far as like canceling elections, I mean, that was the first I heard about Romania canceled the election.
I'd have to do more research on that.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I don't think it's a great idea to cancel elections. But of course, that's what they tried to do.
And he still has admitted he lost the one in 2020.

Speaker 1 Okay, but the idea that in Germany they can knock on your door because you insulted somebody, and they use the example of Pimmel.

Speaker 1 Yes, I said it. What did you say, Pimmel? Pimmel.
Apparently, it's the German word for calling somebody a dick. Oh.

Speaker 1 And you can get arrested for that, or they'll take your phone. And the UK also has

Speaker 1 arrested, I think, people for just insulting.

Speaker 1 basically or like Islamophobia. Well, you know, one person's Islamophobia is another person's just talking plainly and honestly about Islam.
Can I not do that?

Speaker 1 If I have any critique of Islam, I saw you roll your eyes. Really? There's no

Speaker 1 more thinking, well, just like we're not in Germany. We're here.
I know. They have their problems famously.
Right.

Speaker 1 But we don't care about other people's problems, and sometimes those problems don't come here and we shouldn't. No, but it's more complicated.

Speaker 1 No, no, of course. But I guess I just like,

Speaker 1 you know, we have a lot of problems in America. We got the vice president going

Speaker 1 to Europe to complain about sort of German social dynamics. And it's like, okay, I mean, this is about a larger project to the rich.
It's kind of a big thing, and it should be to you, especially

Speaker 1 make your living doing.

Speaker 1 But as you said, these are people that are right now in our own country attacking free speech every day. So I take it a bit disingenuously when J.D.
Vance is in Germany. He just said that.
I know.

Speaker 1 I agree with you. That's why I'm rolling my eyes.
I'm rolling my eyes at the situation, Bill. Okay.

Speaker 1 But hey, look, I'm not trying to be a Pimmel.

Speaker 1 It's fucking Pimmel over here.

Speaker 1 But I mean, that is chilling. That is very chilling.

Speaker 1 And it's funny because some of these places

Speaker 1 are, you know, Canada,

Speaker 1 New Zealand.

Speaker 1 They have a woke quotient that exceeded ours.

Speaker 1 We're going to take a quick break, but before we do that, a reminder that during Black History Month, Vote Save America is supporting black-led organizations and candidates of color through our anxiety relief program.

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Speaker 1 So let's talk about our woke potion a little bit.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about the woke mob.

Speaker 1 You say that, you know, the Republicans went the way they went and the Democrats went the way they went and you're still right where you were.

Speaker 1 Is it just, and I don't mean this in a, I'm like genuinely asking, is it really just the social questions?

Speaker 1 I mean, it's not about like the Inflation Reduction Act and like monetary policy when you say that there. It's just about.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's like if you name so many, I can name so many issues where I will give you what the

Speaker 1 old school liberal,

Speaker 1 which is what I mostly align with, position was.

Speaker 1 although even I can show you from back in the politically incorrect days, places where I was with somebody who would think more conservatively on certain things.

Speaker 1 I was always hard to pin down, and that's the way I like it.

Speaker 1 Everything is, I don't want to be captured ideologically, but mostly that's what I was. Let's take, we're talking about Israel.
What has been the old school liberal position forever on Israel?

Speaker 1 Two-state solution. Right.

Speaker 1 That is not the the position of the woke. Their position is from the river to the sea.
It's not

Speaker 1 far left. Excuse me.
Right. From the river to the sea.
That's their position. That's what they're chanting on campus.
That's the woke position. And it goes a lot further than just the kids on campus.

Speaker 1 That is not the two-state solution. That is, I don't know, the Jews moved to Greenland.
I'm not sure what it is, and I don't think they think it through because

Speaker 1 they're living in this world, as many people have pointed out,

Speaker 1 of oppressor and oppressed. They don't really think past that.
The Jews in Israel, I mean, they talk about them like they have no standing in that country when actually they're the Indians.

Speaker 1 Okay, but they've been always from 1947 on. Now, of course, you leave a deal on the table for 75 years.
People do get a little tired of having the deal not taken.

Speaker 1 But traditionally, Israel has tried to make that happen for a very long time. It accepted the idea of a partition and a two-state solution, and the other side never did.

Speaker 1 And somehow the woke found themselves, they do this all the time, they're so progressive that they do things that are completely anti-progressive.

Speaker 1 Yes, let's align with the people who give women no rights because we're the liberal people.

Speaker 1 Let's align with the river to the sea, no part. So again, I'm where it always was, two-state solutions.
But the reason I've been able to do that. Other people have gone to a different place.

Speaker 1 There's always been a center, a center-left, and a left. That's always been the case.

Speaker 1 There were things that the Vietnam protesters said that was anathema to what was mainstream for Democrats at the time. But

Speaker 1 put aside the specific of the issue. Joe Biden was for a two-state solution.
Kamala Harris was for a two-state solution. Most mainstream Democrats are for a two-state solution.

Speaker 1 Donald Trump has embraced Benjamin Netanyahu, and no two-state solution, no deal on the table.

Speaker 1 I agree, but that's not what we were talking about. But what I'm trying to understand is

Speaker 1 to always bring in Trump. Well, I'm not trying to bring in Trump.
Let's say that. They're going to agree that we don't like Trump.

Speaker 1 Ask an answer. Ask an answer.
But my question is. But you're not addressing the question that you find more difficult to answer, which is what I put to you.

Speaker 1 It's like the woke position, and it's, again, not just kids on campus. I could quote you things from like, do you know who Penn is? The organization, PEN? They had to withdraw an invitation, right?

Speaker 1 That's the

Speaker 1 free speech.

Speaker 1 It's an organization that doesn't understand free speech.

Speaker 1 Same with the ACLU in some cases. But the reason I ⁇ so Pod Save America, I've taken a lot of shit

Speaker 1 for what I've said about Israel, my belief in a two-state solution, my horror at what Benjamin Netanyahu has done, but my belief that we ought to be critical of Israel, not just because of what it has done in Gaza and not just what it has done to the Palestinians, but because it is not in the interest of Israel to create the conditions that they're creating in Gaza.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 I am not what you would call woke on this topic.

Speaker 1 But neither are I,

Speaker 1 but not what, not what elected Democrats are saying, which I think represent like the people that would ultimately be wielding power.

Speaker 1 So like, what are the, like, is the, are there issues where you see like the mainstream Democrats, elected figures, not people on college campuses or organizations that have moved left because they're captured by whatever lefty part of their staff or whatever.

Speaker 1 I know where you're going, and I agree mostly, which is that the Democratic politician is generally not a crazy person.

Speaker 1 If you're talking about crazies,

Speaker 1 I used to say the difference between the parties is that the Republicans have found a place for their crazies. Unfortunately, that place is elected government.

Speaker 1 And it's kind of true. Like, there's no equivalent quite of Marjorie Taylor Greene on the left.

Speaker 1 Although there are people like Elon Omar and AOC who I don't agree with on a lot of stuff and I think are crazy on a lot of stuff and say things that are real eye-rolls.

Speaker 1 Fair enough. I don't agree with that.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I just don't. But the

Speaker 1 ⁇ I'm not saying they're ⁇ I just said they're not as bad, but they are eye-rolly, absolutely. They're things you disagree with.

Speaker 1 And I disagree with and also just ⁇ you know, I mean it's one thing to

Speaker 1 have interest in another country. It's another thing to sort of be the Palestinian representative in the Congress as opposed to representing Michigan.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, maybe she feels an obligation, a moral obligation, that the best way that she can represent her values is to be this one voice. But she's in the American government.
Right,

Speaker 1 there's 434 other members of that.

Speaker 1 So one should be from Palestine? I'm not saying one should be from Palestine. I'm saying that she can in an important debate.
Well, it's what it seems like and what it is.

Speaker 1 She's obviously representing her constituents.

Speaker 1 She has a lot of Palestinian constituents, but also feeling like that is a role that she can play in an important debate, that she is not just a member of Congress for one district, but she's representing a point of view that she doesn't feel like is often represented.

Speaker 1 I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Even when, by the way, I have been extremely critical of what she has said.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 back to

Speaker 1 elected Democrats, I think the reason I'm bringing this up is sometimes I feel like

Speaker 1 you have Democrats,

Speaker 1 there is an entire Republican apparatus that exists to lift up the dumbest, most extreme campus professors, organizations, also mainstream politicians who say something stupid that comes off terribly, and have that represent Democrats and that it actually has an impact.

Speaker 1 And then we end up in a yeah, I'm just, do you think that's true? I think it's true, but I also think it's their obligation to squawk back at those people and they don't do it enough. To your point,

Speaker 1 which I think is correct about the d mainstream Democratic politician, take something like defund the police.

Speaker 1 The Republicans thought they could catch the Democrats on that, and they put it up to a vote. I don't remember what the exact vote was or what the bill was.
They didn't get any. I think they got one.

Speaker 1 Like the Democratic politician did not take the bait on defund the police.

Speaker 1 And yet, the public, if you just ask the man on the street, probably thinks that a lot of Democratic politicians did sign on to that.

Speaker 1 So that's a good example of something that was put out there there by, like you say, organizations and the fringe and college professors and people in the media.

Speaker 1 But did the Democratic congressmen from your district sign on to that? No, they did not, at least not in a bill.

Speaker 1 So, but, you know, they'll put up a quote from Kamala Harris at the time in 2020 that makes it look that. And people did go overboard in 2020.

Speaker 1 Okay, so that's the problem, is that the Democratic politician did not make it clear to the voter, yeah, we're not for defunding the police. We think that's stupid.

Speaker 1 The police are important, and they're especially important in neighborhoods with a lot of people of color.

Speaker 1 Who did not want to defund the police? So I largely agree with that, but I think sometimes we lay the blame at the feet of Democrats for two reasons. One,

Speaker 1 you know, there's bias in the media. But one of the ways the media is biased is that it treats Democrats as the protagonist and Republicans as the antagonist.
So Democrats have agency.

Speaker 1 They're people you can reach. They're people you can persuade.
They're people you believe will try to do the right thing. And they're people that will actually respond to you.

Speaker 1 Are you saying they are or that's how they're portrayed?

Speaker 1 I think that's how them, I think when people feel that there's a liberal bias in a lot of mainstream coverage, one of the manifestations of it is that they are treated like the protagonist.

Speaker 1 Republicans are, if not villains, they're kind of other and removed. Correct.
And Democrats are meant to be the people that respond. In the New York Times, it's like assumed we are the good people.

Speaker 1 We are the good people who who know the right answers to everything, and they are the people who are not good. Yes, that assumption and that attitude is something that very much fosters resentment.

Speaker 1 And I don't blame the people. Like I always say, you could hate Trump.
You can't hate everybody who voted for him. It's half the country.
But that's a lot of the reason why they do. Well,

Speaker 1 one of the other things it does, though, is

Speaker 1 it means Republicans aren't held as much accountable for their own decisions. Not at all.
And I think part of it, too, the other piece of it is that people are just uncomfortable with saying,

Speaker 1 hold on a second. There is a, yeah, Democrats should do a better job of tamping down misinformation and lies, but we're drowning in it.
We're drowning in it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I wish Democrats were better at pushing back against this bullshit, but we're kind of asking them to solve for a society problem.

Speaker 1 Like you got like Jerry Connolly as the minority leader in this House committee raising his hand to beg Nancy Mace to stop saying a slur. And it's like,

Speaker 1 we can't win a fight that way. We're not going to be able to,

Speaker 1 like, we're,

Speaker 1 these people don't care what you have to say. They don't, they want the fight.
They want, they want you to, to yell at them for saying the wrong thing.

Speaker 1 They don't, they don't care what you have to say about any of this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and don't take the bait. I mean, that's what a lot of Democrats are coming around to.
I think I was talking about this on my show last Friday about, wasn't it,

Speaker 1 you know, people you've probably worked with, I think David Axelrod

Speaker 1 and somebody else like that said

Speaker 1 on USA, oh, I know, we had on Congressman Tim Ryan. And

Speaker 1 I was quoting Axelrod and somebody else who said, you know, on USA aid,

Speaker 1 don't make, don't, that's not a hill I'm going to die on.

Speaker 1 I think that was exactly, and I just read a list of things to Congressman Ryan, who I think is going to run for governor of Ohio, saying, tell me what else is a hill you will or won't die on.

Speaker 1 That's what the Democrats, I think, should be talking about with each other. What are the hills we're going to die on and what are the hills we're not?

Speaker 1 And it was kind of interesting to hear his response to this list.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think there are, like, those are the political questions, the strategic questions we have to ask.
But I think it's also worth saying, hold on a second.

Speaker 1 The Trump administration is illegally shutting down a government agency that is our counterweight to China around the world. True.

Speaker 1 And we all kind of understand that it's hard to tell people why it's important and nobody's going to understand. And so you've got to let that one go.
I made that point.

Speaker 1 I said, what's about leadership? What about

Speaker 1 saying the people aren't here and it's our duty to, as politics, that's what we're supposed to do, is lead them to a place.

Speaker 1 Because the Republicans never shrink from leading people to a place where the people aren't. That never intimidates them.
The people were for a public option.

Speaker 1 for a very long time with the healthcare debate. And they were like, yeah, we had 20 points in the polls.

Speaker 1 We could flip that. So there is that argument.
But you know what?

Speaker 1 Do you want to win another election? Is there even going to be another election? I mean, that was my original thing about Trump when everyone was saying I was crazy.

Speaker 1 I said he's never going to get seated in an election. I just feel like

Speaker 1 we probably have already crossed the Rubicon on this. I just don't see this crowd ever really giving up power because they really believe in their bones.

Speaker 1 And again, I could go through a lot of things that make me understand why they think that way, although I'm not with them, of course, on it.

Speaker 1 But they think that the left is so crazy and so dangerous, and some of their ideas are so aggressively anti-common sense, and they are.

Speaker 1 They think that it is their duty.

Speaker 1 to preserve power, to just not ever let those people near the levers of power because it's just too crazy. Yeah, it's so dangerous.

Speaker 1 That is dangerous. That's what they say they believe.

Speaker 1 But come on, Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and Akeem Jeffries and Kamal Harris, these are mainstream figures that are not dangerous at all.

Speaker 1 They either are lying to themselves or persuading themselves to believe that Democrats pose a threat because it is part of the project of denying the legitimacy of Democratic politics in foreign countries.

Speaker 1 Well, we could argue about a lot of issues there, but I'm sorry. Joe Biden, I think, never stood up to the far, far fringe of his party.

Speaker 1 From day one, he was just like, too feeble, too old. These people are too mean, too powerful.
I don't want to even have the fight. What was something he did?

Speaker 1 But like, I'm not, I'm not, what's something he did?

Speaker 1 Like, we are an outlier in the trans

Speaker 1 with other countries.

Speaker 1 I mean, the U.K., the Nordic countries all pulled back on that as far as like puberty blockers and operations for kids under 18, letting kids, children self-diagnose, keeping it from parents.

Speaker 1 All this stuff has gone on and still goes on in America. If it's something like that and you're a parent, which I am not, and I'm glad I'm not,

Speaker 1 that issue is a lot closer to home to you than Ukraine. So let's talk about Ukraine.
I didn't even know where it was five years ago, and now I care more about that than this issue.

Speaker 1 I want to talk about the transition.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about it. But before we do, are there other ⁇ that's the one people come to.
Is there another example in your mind of Joe Biden

Speaker 1 that somehow was super woke? DEI race. I mean,

Speaker 1 they put that in every department immediately. Like day one,

Speaker 1 that was the most important thing. And now you see a lot of corporations pulling back from it.
I mean, like, everything does go too far.

Speaker 1 I mean, a university having 200 DEI officers, a university which is already one of the most liberal places in the world, you know, and, you know, it's one of those jobs where you'd have to admit there was progress or else the answer is, well, maybe I shouldn't have this job anymore.

Speaker 1 And whoever does that. So let's talk about, let's go, let's talk about,

Speaker 1 I got to my card that says trans.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about it. The position, like, look, other countries have national health services.
The democratic position is leave it up to parents, doctors.

Speaker 1 Just leave it, it's not the government's decision. That's the democratic position.
What's wrong with that position? Wait, say that again? The democratic position, right? Joe Biden, like...

Speaker 1 Well, the democratic position in this state

Speaker 1 has been that you can, the kid can, the school has the right to hide it from the parents. That is something that is not going to go well with the average voter.

Speaker 1 And again, I'm not even a parent, and I get it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I mean, I think the governor here used the word snitch. Now, if I am, if I'm wrong, I didn't say it.
So I think I read that.

Speaker 1 So look, there are delicate problems here. But wait, wait, there's delicate problems here.
And there's a delicate problem where you have a kid, all right, who

Speaker 1 is either non-binary or trans, who feels scared at home, feels unsafe at home.

Speaker 1 Those things do happen in the world, there are things that happen in the world, but for the most part, that's not what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 For the most part, what we're talking about is a teenager who has felt that they have a gender dysmorphia.

Speaker 1 So, what they feel like is that they don't, they feel deeply unhappy, depression, all really rampant. And they go

Speaker 1 that, and then they blame it on the thing that has been put in their mind way too much,

Speaker 1 that it may be because because of you're in the wrong body, to put it probably wrongly, but that we understand what that means. Okay.
Now, it could be that case.

Speaker 1 When Trump said there's only two sexes, again,

Speaker 1 pendulum swinging way too far to stupidity, okay? Obviously, sex is more complicated than just two sexes. There are people who absolutely, you know, are quote unquote in the wrong body.

Speaker 1 But when you're a kid, when even a teenager, and you're that confused about everything and you have no idea and you're upset for many other reasons, the idea that they put it, let me just finish.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying I know. I could see you already.
I could see you pulling back the bow.

Speaker 1 And the fact that they put this in their head too much, that's my thing. Should you tell a kid,

Speaker 1 look, there's a default setting for humans, male and female, but there are variations. That's absolutely true.

Speaker 1 Some people are attracted to people of their own sex, and some people are actually in the quote-unquote wrong body. And that does happen.
But

Speaker 1 the amount that they

Speaker 1 emphasize this, I compared it once on my show to entrapment.

Speaker 1 So see, there you go.

Speaker 1 I disagree.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, is that not the end? Is it entrapment at a period of time? Can I explain it? Yes, explain. I mean, I think we all get it, but yeah, explain it.
Entrapment.

Speaker 1 I don't think everybody does get it. Okay, explain it.
Okay. Well, what is entrapment? Entrapment is when you suggest something to people that they weren't ordinarily going to do.

Speaker 1 I used the example of after 9-11, the FBI got caught basically entrapping some people, which is what they went to people who were, excuse me, I'm not done. Right.
I'm sorry. You're right.

Speaker 1 You're right. And that was rude.

Speaker 1 That was rude. That was rude.
Bill, finish. You're explaining how being trans is like being recruited into al-Qaeda.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 that's glib and

Speaker 1 100%

Speaker 1 stupid and glib. It is.
Yes. Because it's not true, And you didn't even let me get through this.
You're right. And now I got to go.
You're just going to leave? We're having the middle of a debate.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, okay, I'll finish this.
Entrapment. Like, okay, so they go to somebody, they go to a group of guys.
They did this in a group of poor black guys in Miami and were unhappy with America.

Speaker 1 And, you know, hey, wouldn't it be great if we blew up the Sears Tower in Chicago? And these guys didn't even have a gun. And it's like, yeah, I hate America or I got problems with America.

Speaker 1 That does sound kind of cool. And hey, well, we can get you the explosives.
That's entrapment.

Speaker 1 You put an idea in people's heads that wouldn't have been there otherwise.

Speaker 1 Do I think in most of America they did that in schools? I don't. But I think in enough of them, in enough far-left places, they did constantly have this idea

Speaker 1 in the minds of children that maybe you're not in the right body. I mean, the New England Journal of Medicine advocated for taking sex off of a birth certificate, I believe.
It was like,

Speaker 1 you're assigned sex as

Speaker 1 assigned. You're assigned.

Speaker 1 I was assigned it by my dick, okay, when I was born. Yes, and again, to tell kids, it doesn't always have to be and isn't always

Speaker 1 the default setting. But that's a different mentality than they put in the minds of kids.
And that's why this debate goes on.

Speaker 1 And the fact that you think, or a lot of people on the the left, think that even if you just have this debate, it makes you a bigot. You just have to roll over.

Speaker 1 That was, you asked about the Biden administration. That was their position.
If you even question this, you're some sort of a bigot. And this is new science, and it has to do with children.
And

Speaker 1 it's not going to look good in the future, that position. Can I just respond to something? Now you can.
Now I can respond. All right.
Can you just

Speaker 1 say your position? Just say your bullshit while I'm in the bathroom. Just stay for for one second.
Okay. I'm kidding.
Unbelievable. I'm kidding.
All right, no, no. Okay.
A lot of things there.

Speaker 1 First of all,

Speaker 1 this is going to sound confrontational. For a long time, people said, oh,

Speaker 1 older gay people are recruiting kids to be gay. And they wouldn't really be gay.
They were being recruited. They were being groomed.

Speaker 1 That they were being drawn. That was the conservative position, the Christian right position for a long time was the reason you didn't want to have gay teachers is they're going to recruit.

Speaker 1 That the gay gay lifestyle is going to look so enticing and so exciting that it's going to bring these poor defenseless boys, they mostly boys, into the gay lifestyle and destroy their lives.

Speaker 1 But of course, that wasn't true. Really, all gay teachers were an example.
Right. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Look, there are a few examples of people getting older and realizing that they shouldn't have transitioned. That happens.
It's real. That's real.
Yeah, more than a few.

Speaker 1 But there are also really important surgeries that people get for their heart, and they go wrong, and somebody dies. And nobody says we must stop the cardiologists.

Speaker 1 No one says we must stop the surgeons. We say, let's...
Is that your analogy? Well, my analogy is only that. Wait, let me finish.

Speaker 1 Can I finish? Yes. Is it my turn to talk?

Speaker 1 You're right.

Speaker 1 And what you say is, let's make sure that this version of it is being practiced. Well,

Speaker 1 we don't get rid of the specific surgery. We don't throw out a whole field of medicine.
We say, let's make sure we're doing it in a way that's healthy.

Speaker 1 The science, the research, all right, makes clear that, yes, there are exceptions. Yes, there are people practicing it in ways that maybe go too far.

Speaker 1 But for the most part, study after study shows that gender affirming care saves. Wait, let me, I'm talking.
It's my turn. I was so quiet for so long after I interrupted a few times.

Speaker 1 But once I stopped talking, boy, I was good at it.

Speaker 1 And that gender affirming care saves a lot of lives.

Speaker 1 And the truth is, we talk about these edge cases, talk about athletes, talk about locker rooms, but for the most part, what we're talking about is a very small group of people that just want the opportunity to live and express themselves.

Speaker 1 And there is a war on that group of people from the right to make salient extreme cases, edge cases, not for the purposes of stopping those, but for doing what the Trump administration is doing entirely, which is stopping all gender-affirming care altogether and making trans people fucking nervous when they have to pee at the airport, right?

Speaker 1 Which is the end result of all of that. And of course, that's awful, and I agree with all that, except the part about the studies.
There was a very big story this year.

Speaker 1 It was in the front page page of the New York Times.

Speaker 1 A woman, I forget her name, and she had done like it was a 10-year study, did not release it on purpose because she said it would weaponize the argument from the other side.

Speaker 1 So in other words, it came out not the way you wanted the study to come out.

Speaker 1 Not what you said, that it's, oh, all the studies show that, no, it is a mixed bag. That's true.

Speaker 1 Some people, yes, it's the right thing. But to take that risk at that age before you know shit about anything, yes, sometimes it's pretty obvious that this should, it's a very hard call to make.

Speaker 1 And again, this was a very long study, very thorough, and they wouldn't release it because it came up with the wrong conclusion.

Speaker 1 But because it is a hard question, because it is a serious question. Right.
It is a personal question. I don't want Donald Trump deciding.
I want parents and doctors.

Speaker 1 You just said parents can get shut out. Well, I don't think parents should get shut out.
There are rare exceptions to that.

Speaker 1 Look, we all believe that parents should have the decisions over their children, but we also recognize that some parents do such a bad fucking job that the kids are in danger.

Speaker 1 That happens in outside of trans issues. That happens all the time.
It's terrible. Some parents are fucking terrible.
Somehow, the fact that there are terrible parents in the world

Speaker 1 gets erased on these questions. Do I think that schools should, but as a baseline, be keeping a secret from parents? A fucking course not.
No one thinks that. No one thinks that.

Speaker 1 Apparently, that's not true. People do think that.
And there is no perfect answer to this it's as many naughty questions the least bad answer and the least bad answer is to not

Speaker 1 have the government decide from above it's just to leave it up to people and parents and the kids and the doctors right you want the government to ban gender affirming care for kids

Speaker 1 you want you want to lose every election just keep coming down on the side of parents coming in second in a who gets to decide what goes on with my kid concept.

Speaker 1 First of all, I'm not talking about winning or losing elections. I agree that there's a a salience to this issue.
I agree that this has been weaponized.

Speaker 1 I agree with all that, but I'm just talking about the issue itself. What about it? Can I take this one home

Speaker 1 as a souvenir?

Speaker 1 I'm going to put it in my scrapbook. Let me see if I hit all my points that I wanted to make about this.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Boy.

Speaker 1 Like, they don't even. See, couldn't they have started? It says, my guest this week is Tough House Book of Content Sydney and Bill Maher.
Bill, couldn't they have started this on the next card?

Speaker 1 Don't you think that word Bill should have been started on the next card?

Speaker 1 no i'm not trying to get anybody in trouble um let's uh you want to go that's that's it you're just leaving yeah i'm just leaving bill maher everybody thank you i had questions more i had other questions oh we could do it all day well i guess not

Speaker 1 we could

Speaker 1 all right good bill maher everybody get out of here

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