Trump Rages, Harris Rises

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Restrictions apply. USAA! Welcome to Pod Save America.

I'm Jon Favreau.

I'm Jon Lovett.

I'm Tommy Vitor.

Welcome back, Tommy.

Thank you, guys.

Slow week last week?

Mm-hmm.

Who's this Walls guy?

You know?

I like him.

I'm just kidding.

I interviewed him.

Again, I think to myself, imagine if today was the day that Lovett came back from Survivor.

It would have been so funny.

There were so many months. There's a new ticket? Who's ticket? How long was I gone? Is that guy Joe Biden? That doesn't look like Joe Biden.
Like the end of Planet of the Apes. Yeah.
It was Earth all along. And the funniest thing we could have done is be like, what are you talking about, man? It was always Harris.
She's always been leading, no?

On today's show, Donald Trump's meltdown continues.

As his campaign scrambles to blunt Kamala Harris's rise in the polls,

the vice president starts to lay out her own policy agenda,

and a trove of leaked Project 2025 training videos paint an even scarier and, yes, weirder picture than you might imagine.

No safe word in those videos.

No safe word. But first, the Trump train is off the tracks, guys.
It is off the tracks. Last week, we had a Washington Post story about how Trump's been upset and complaining about his campaign.
Now Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan have kicked things up a notch with an absolutely delightful piece in the New York Times headlined, Inside the Worst Three Weeks of Donald Trump's 2024 Campaign, people close to Trump say that he's in a terrible mood and has taken to calling Harris a bitch and telling donors that Democrats aren't calling him weird, only J.D. Vance.
He's not wrong about that. I'm not weird, he's the one who's weird.
Per usual, Trump's latest breakdown has also been quite public. He spent the week calling the polls fake and accusing the Harris campaign of using AI to generate photos of their massive crowds.
And then he really unburdened himself during his only campaign event of the week in Montana. Let's listen.
You know, he wanted to debate. If we didn't have a debate, he'd still be there.
Can you imagine if we didn't have a debate? Why the hell did I debate him? Kamala is grossly incompetent, and in my opinion, has a very low IQ. But we'll find out about her IQ during the debate, okay? Let's find out about her IQ.
I think suburban women like me a lot. You know, it's fake stuff.
Why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't they? They got this woman, Maggot Hagerman. Did you ever hear of it? Maggot Hagerman.
She's a reporter. If Comrade Waltz and Comrade Harris win this November, the people cheering will be the pink-haired Marxists, the looters, the perverts, the flag burners, Hamas supporters,

drug dealers, gun grabbers,

and human traffickers.

No, we're not. We're very solid people.

We're not weird. We're very solid.

I wanted to cut it that way, too,

because I like that in between

calling Kamala Harris low IQ

and referring to Maggie Haberman as maggot Hagerman.

He said, I don't know why suburban women don't like me.

They love me.

That was an hour and 40 minute speech, I believe, in Montana.

Hour 40.

Yeah.

What do you guys think?

Same Trump as ever?

Does he seem a little more off his game than usual?

Well, this is, you know, it's sort of.

Yes.

You know, this is Trump. This is Trump when things aren't going well.
He is angry. He is frustrated.
He obviously has no one to blame. Undisciplined all over the place.
But himself. So it is just.
I mean, what, you guys have never gone through a bad breakup? You know what I mean? He didn't want it to go this way. He wanted to stick it out, get some couples therapy.
But Joe, you know, he had other plans.

It is very funny that he just keeps talking about Joe Biden.

He's obsessed with him. Not even to attack Joe Biden, but to be so sad that Joe Biden has left the race.

And he just truthed, I think before we came in here, he's like, Joe Biden admitted that

was the pressure campaign from the Democrats that forced him out of the race. Well, yeah.
Yeah. Right.
That was the paper. What are you talking about? Yeah.
It's like it was in at all. He admitted it all started with the debate.
Well, yeah, obviously. Did he watch the debate? Because we did.
Were you there? It's like he fell down pole vaulting and he's like, oh, it was the wind. It was this.
Oh, I caught his dick on the. Yeah.
We're talking about that. Yeah, we can talk about that.
Sure. But it is like also like...

No context needed. I was going to say, Farrell.
Just keep going, yeah. But like, oh, this is of course what Trump would say in his hour and 40 minute speech in Montana, which is not a state in which he has any threat.
Clearly an event they planned weeks ago when he was beating Joe Biden and thought to themselves like like, we'll help the Senate candidate there beat Tester because he wanted, you know, he wanted to make sure he had a Republican Senate. Well, you made this point before I went on vacation when he was in Minnesota doing an event.
I was like, well, clearly this was like pre shakeup scheduling. Obviously, they're going to adjust and start going to smarter places.
Like, no, you have to fly over virtually every swing state that he has to win to get to Montana

from New York or Florida.

It's not like he's still in the White House

where it actually is tricky to reschedule stuff

because you have all the-

Yeah, he's just a private citizen with a plane.

He's not campaigning.

He's not campaigning.

Well, not his plane.

Not his plane.

That's right.

Apparently it's Jeffrey Epstein's plane.

Which is, I mean, if we were Republicans,

this is all we would talk about from now until election day. He's on Jeff Epstein's plane.
Come on. Not the first time, right? Huh? That's right.
Yeah, he's like, oh, you got to jiggle the handle on your flesh. Okay.
Because he's been on it. Right, right.
Because he knows the plane. Yeah, he knows.
Right. But he's also, he's out there.
He's talking about Joe Biden. He was, like, attacking Joe Rogan last week because he thought Joe Rogan endorsed RFK Jr.
And then Joe Rogan's like, I just said I liked RFK Jr. And he did this whole thing.
He's just going in every different direction at this point. Maggot Hagerman? Maggot, yeah, what? So, by the way, a story that only exists probably because he called her.
He calls her all the time. Yeah, he called her for this.
I texted Maggie to say, is Maggot Haberman new? And she said, no, unless you think February of 2022 is new. So I guess we'd miss this.
Well, Maggot would know. She would know.
She's the best source on this subject, actually. She would know that.
No, I guess he called her very angry in Jonathan Swan because he's been telling the story about how he was in a helicopter crash with Willie Brown. It was just another black elected official black elected official from california not even san francisco yep that's right that's right just fully and very mad at them for for correcting that so and he's doing great the other part of the story was he claimed that willie brown was saying bad things on this helicopter while it almost crashed about kamala harris what are the odds to turn out zero do i have a story for you that i haven't been telling what you'd you guys make of the time story from Maggie and Jonathan? Any other nuggets in there you want to talk about? I do appreciate just he is so angry and so self-destructive that he had an aide send angry texts to Miriam Adelson criticizing what that super pack is doing on his behalf.
Saying it's run by rhinos. Saying it's run by rhinos.
And it's like, you know, it's like. Look a gift horse in the mouth.
That's just somebody doing that for you as a favor, my friend. Right.
Sheldon Adelson's widow, who I think the story said the PAC was spending $18 million that week on ads in support of Donald Trump. And he sent an angry text.
Also, the whole story is basically this dinner with donors. Yes.
And so it's clearly a source. Bill Ackman was there.
For those who don't know Bill Ackman, he's an insufferable, arrogant hedge fund prick who decided to endorse Donald Trump the day of the assassination attempt. Because what people needed to hear that day was whether Bill Ackman endorsed.
Because he's that self-important. And this guy, he's one of these rich guys who just wants a tax cut, just wants deregulation, just convinced himself that Donald Trump has changed and he can make this about policy.
And they sit down at this asshole rich guy table and Trump just starts ranting about stop this deal. Yeah.
And he also, and someone was like, what are you going to do to turn the narrative around

and like lay out your positive vision?

And I guess then he just like attacked Kamala Harris

for a couple of minutes and at the end said,

I am who I am.

He also told the donors

that the Democrats have tried to kill him.

So he's doing the whole, the J.D. Vance line

that the assassination attempt

was somehow related to Democrats,

even though there's been no evidence at all. I don't even remember.
Was there an assassination attempt? There was an assassination attempt, yeah. Wow.
And he wants everyone to be clear that it has not made him nicer. Yeah, he keeps saying that.
It has not made him nicer. He wants people to understand that.
Also, private poll in Ohio that has him under 50% in Ohio, that's real, by the way. I've heard it was Bernie Moreno's campaign.
Oh, interesting. Against Jared Brown.
Yeah.

Oh, I like that a lot.

I know.

Okay.

I mean, who knows?

This is getting too good.

By the way, it doesn't also just like he's under 50. It doesn't say Kamala Harris is winning in Ohio.

I'm sure she's not.

It's just that he's not over 50.

Yeah. No, if anything, it just feels good for Jared.
It's pretty obvious that Trump hasn't settled on a message about Harris.

The campaign seems to be lurching between three different and potentially contradictory attacks. Radical San Francisco liberal, four more years of Biden's failed policies, and a flip-flopping fake who can't be trusted.
Time story made it sound like they're going with flip-flopper and Trump accused Harris of that in a truth social post this morning where he promised that with him there will be, quote, no flipping, no flipping with me. But then hours later, he made his triumphant return to Twitter to post a video titled Meet San Francisco Radical Kamala Harris.
Why do you guys think they can't seem to land on a message here? And which one worries you the most? I do think like two of the three just don't land that hard with Kamala Harris that like it's it's just I get wanting to like trying to paint her as a radical when she's out there calling herself a prosecutor every day and standing next to Tim Walsh, which is just like normal personified, I think doesn't land as well. Also, this idea of painting her as like a candidate of like the administration and the past, I think it's just not landing as well because she feels so exciting and new in part because her campaign is only three weeks old.
So I think that's why you kind of end up landing almost by process of elimination on fake flip-flopper. You know, do you guys think the radical liberal and flip-flopper chameleon are mutually exclusive in this context i i think i'll combine them i think you can combine them because i think what they're trying to say is she's fake and phony in trying to present herself now as more moderate and mainstream and the truth about her is that she's a crazy liberal lunatic.
So apparently one of the super PACs just announced

that they're going to spend $100 million in the swing states,

$100 million ad buy, based on the theme,

people will elect a liberal but not a lunatic.

Now, again, this gets back to your point,

which is like painting her as a lunatic

when everyone is seeing her every day now on the campaign trail

and she's just sounding like joyful and reasonable and moderate sounding like a mainstream, just like a mainstream Democrat. Like it's just, it's a hard one to do, but I understand it is, it is process of elimination.
He's going to try to say, look at all the lefty stuff she did in California. Look at these 2020 primary positions.
Now she's trying to walk away from them. And then you make it a character and a policy attack, which I actually think like the best attacks are a combination like that.
I think most voters actually don't really care if you flip flop on positions. If you end up in the right place, you're better off.
It's just about to say that because the challenge for John Kerry in 2004 was he was flipping, flopping and then flipping back to the old positions like within the same campaign. Right.
On theaq war which was the most salient issue of the entire election exactly if all she has done is that like yeah there were some positions i took in the 2019 2020 primaries and then by the way i just had four years of uh working with joe biden closely in the white house where we got a lot of bipartisan accomplishments done we got a lot of sort of accomplishments done. Here's what we did.
I think that that's her best defense on that. And her tenure as vice president makes it difficult to paint her as this radical liberal.
I just think back to the 2020 primary and and why we're seeing such a better version of Kamala Harris now. And like you look at those moments that the Republicans are elevating.
And yes, she's taking left positions that she's now disavowed. But you can also see that she's uncomfortable doing it and doesn't seem like- Many of them were.
Many of them were. But so like- A lot of looking around before they raise their hands.
Yeah, looking around before they raise their hand. Or like, should people be able to vote while they're in prison? Well, that's a conversation we need to have.
People are legally crossing the border. Traffic ticket? Yes? Good? should the should the boston marathon bombers be able to vote in prison one was a moment you could see it was just like i've never been asked this i don't know and and and not thinking what do i think but more like what what is the where am i trying to situate myself right now and so i i do think like she just seems more comfortable being this version of herself which why i just don't think these attacks land.
The other challenge with doing the, oh, she's just a continuation of Biden's failed policies on, and I think they will zero in on immigration and inflation, is their criticism of Biden and his policies wasn't never based in ideology. It wasn't like Biden's a crazy liberal and that's why inflation's bad or the border's a mess.

It's that Biden's weak and old. Yes.
So because that was their criticism, it's hard now to say, well, we have immigration issues and cost of living issues because they were too liberal. Right.
Like it's just a hard thing to do. They really did plan their whole campaign around Biden being old and thus weak.
There was a subtext, though, that was like, Biden is so old and out of it that actually Kamala is in charge in the radical left Green New Deal ghost of whatever. Like AOC is running the show.
But that was a bit of a subtext thing that they never really pushed hard. Yeah, it's funny that like even John Kerry, right, that like there was that, you know, he had this moment where he said, I actually voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it.
Tough line. Tough line.
But the attack on him as a flip-flopper really did work with the kind of senatorial version of him that we got. And it kind of fit with an impression of him that he had created and that Republicans were spending a lot of them to create over a long period of time.
They just don't have time right now to create the framework to define Kamala Harris as fake or phony so that future moments can be fit into that frame. The other senatorial thing about it was John Kerry spent most of that campaign trying to say, no, no, I've been consistent, which is what happens when you're a senator with a longer, I've seen Biden do this.
I've seen other people who've been in the Senate a long time instead of what you should say when it happens at the debate or an interview is just like, ah, changed my mind. You know, I've had I've had I've had experience over the last four years that about governing the entire country and not just California.
But, you know, like because it got to him. And and I just this version like there's a kind of toughness to the way Kamala has been campaigning that I just she's not gonna let them get to her.
Yeah. What do you guys make of Trump's return to Twitter? I mean, it's got to be some sort of quid pro quo with the Elon Musk interview, right? Obviously, I think, you know, I'm sure there are some Trump aides who have been very glad over the last couple of years that Trump isn't tweeting out to 88 million people his every thought.
That said, there's others who are probably thinking we got 88 million people following this guy. We're not using this tool in the middle of a campaign, right? I mean, to me, the most interesting part of this is what it means for True Social and the Trump Media and Technology Group, because that is trading on the NASDAQ.
It's a publicly traded stock. The last May, they announced a quarterly revenue of $770,000 and losses of $328 million.
So this is a company that has no actual value. It's not trading on fundamentals.
It's a way to bribe him. He owns 60% of the company.
And I assume that like he was staying on Truth Social as like a fig leaf to pretend that there was some sort of veneer of value to the DJT stock. But I guess it sounds like the Trump campaign is telling reporters that he's on Twitter for good now.
Well, here's right now trump is not on twitter the trump campaign is on twitter if you are if you're social still getting the good stuff right it's getting the pure uncut trump crazy and your lasavita or these people stepped on you want you you want the ideal version of this is you keep trump in his little sandbox ranting and raving on truth social and And that they can use the Trump account on Twitter to post on message stuff. I don't know.
He's going to send one. He's got, well, that's the question.
It's literally just like, how do they, how does he get access to Twitter? Because he can't post, he writes them down or dictates them to whoever's in earshot. So whoever's been texting Miriam Adelson.
Yeah. Right.
Right.

You know,

so. them to scovino or whatever to whoever's in in earshot to whoever whoever's been texting uh miriam madelson yeah right right now send this one oh no no i meant that as a post this wasn't the adventure i had in mind when you said let's rent a car in it.
Relax. GPS says we're on track.
Wait, does that sign say Switzerland? No, no, no. We should be near Sicily.
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Restrictions apply. USAA! So the Trump campaign has assigned furniture enthusiast J.D.
Vance to play the role of attack dog, which is often the case with a running mate. The only issue here is that Vance has arguably generated the worst headlines of either candidate on both tickets over the last several weeks, which might be why he tried for a reset this last weekend by appearing on all the Sunday shows.
Let's hear how he did. Nick Fuentes, of course, he's an avowed white supremacist.
He said, what kind of a man marries somebody named Usha? Clearly he doesn't value his racial identity, his heritage. I mean, this is racist garbage.
Yes, it is. But this is also a guy that dined with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago during this campaign.
Well, Donald Trump doesn't know anything about and frankly doesn't care for. Trump still hasn't given a full-throated denouncement of this guy who is, said that terrible stuff, but he said, I mean, he's a white supremacist.
Look, I think President Trump's issued plenty of condemnations on this. The one thing that I like about Donald Trump, John, is that he actually will talk to anybody.

But just because you talk to somebody doesn't mean you endorse their views. And look, I mean, Donald Trump spent a lot of quality time with my wife.
Every time he sees her, he gives her a hug, tells her she's beautiful and jokes around with her a little bit. I'm not at all worried about Donald Trump.
Yeah, you should be, pal. That's weird.
Quality time. I guess what he was trying to say there is, I don't think Donald Trump endorses Nick Fuentes' horribly racist, disgusting views of my wife because Donald Trump is nice to my wife.

And he only had dinner with Nick Fuentes because he didn't know who he was or he didn't know who he was but doesn't agree with, he still talks to people he doesn't agree with.

Great stuff.

Great explanations. Really nailed it.
I saw some people say that they thought that Vance did better in these interviews than recent. He's better than a bunch of couch sex memes.
Right, I mean, yeah. Better than the worst rollout of a VP candidate in our lifetimes.
Sarah Palin. Oh, no, that was a good rollout.
Sarah Palin was crushing it. That was actually a great rollout.
It got worse later. Then Katie Couric got involved.
Yeah, Katie Couric. The gotcha question of read anything lately.
Literally. Save the country.
Save the country. Read anything lately? Fucking change the trajectory of history.
But I watched the whole Margaret Brennan Face the Nation one and I actually thought it was like a good interview and it was a good interview forance, given how bad he's been. I was trying to watch it.
Like, what if I hadn't been seeing three to four weeks of just godforsaken coverage that made this guy seem terrible? And you see some of the strengths he would have brought to the ticket. Would have.
Yeah, absolutely. But like, he talks about like sort of populist economic issues on child tax credit, on antitrust, on a few other policy things.
You also see why like he is the sort of intellectual kind of defender of MAGA and how that might have been something that could have been useful to them or that they thought was an advantage. But then you just he's so off-putting even when he's at his best.
And you think, what were the strengths that J.D. Vance brought to this ticket? And you just don't think they would have chosen him if they thought they had to play it safe because he doesn't balance Trump out in terms of his personality.
J.D. Vance is just as much of an asshole, but less charisma.
And he doesn't balance him out on policy. At least Mike Pence had this stayed reserved institutional vibe.
And he sort of complimented him by being a Christian right person, you know, a family values type conservative. There's nothing like that with Vance.
You don't need an attack dog when Donald Trump is at the top of the ticket. You need someone that makes him seem safe, makes him seem normal, makes him seem someone you can vote for while sleeping at night.
And Vance just doesn't do that, even when he's at his best. In that CBS interview, he had some good moments.
Their union messaging is that Harris is pro-trade and pro-green energy policies that will hurt auto workers, for example. And that kind of approach to try to peel off union voters, I think, can be effective in some contexts.
He also got pressed on why he wants to end mail order sales of Mifepristone because of the Comstock Act, like really radical stuff. So like he's a mixed bag because he's got some extreme policies that smart reporters will push him on.
And then they'll also ask him about, you know, Donald Trump dining with Nazis and also, you know, hedging on whether members of the military in Afghanistan who helped U.S. troops should be allowed into the country because Trump wants to end all asylum, right? So like, he's got a tough situation because he has to defend Trump's terrible policies.
He said a bunch of weird shit, and then he's just not very charismatic. Every time Trump is asked about picking him, Trump says, oh, he's good for the working man.
He's good for the working men and women, right? The workers like him. You could make an argument.
I'm sure that some of Trump's advisors did who wanted him to be selected, that he has more of the intellectual heft than Donald Trump to sort of dress up the bullshit economic populism that they're peddling. The challenge is even on that child tax credit answer, it's like, yeah, would it be effective if there was a Republican nominee who was saying, you know what?

Like, I do think that we should help people with children and i think that we shouldn't have children in poverty and we should use our tax system to do like yeah that would be effective right but jd vance and republicans have been the ones blocking the extension of the child tax credit for the last several years now you see this on on abortion rights too right for the longest time the right was oh we're know, if we are going to do all this to overturn Revee Wade, we have to make life easier and better for new moms and families. And of course, that part of the agenda never came at all.
He says, oh, I'm against universal child care because that only benefits a certain kind of family. But I'm for rewarding all parents.
But then the push comes to shove. They don't ever actually get it through.
They're still part of a party that just doesn't do any of the things that they're pretending they care about on their new economic populism agenda. I want to hear a little fun breaking news that just came through our Slack.
Apparently, you know, we've all been reading about how the Iranian hackers might have infiltrated the Trump campaign, gotten it to somebody's email, etc. It turns out it was Roger Stone's email account.
No way. So there's going to be, according to the Washington Post.
So there could be some interesting stuff in that. So they blamed the Iranians, but now they think that maybe it was just Roger Stone.
No, no, no, sorry. Roger Stone's email account was the one compromised by the Iranian phishing attack.
So you think there's probably going to be some interesting stuff in there. Oh, that's fun.
Starting with some apps. The phishing attack that, hey, we saw you across the room and we really liked your vibe.
Yes, exactly. Developing, developing story.
Developing, totally. So other Republicans are also getting in on the fun of attacking the new nominee.
James Comer, head of the Oversight Committee, House Oversight Committee, who's spent the last two years trying to investigate and impeach Joe Biden over nothing, told Fox News that his committee will now turn their attention to Kamala Harris and investigate how much money the migrant crisis has cost the government. Think he'll be able to make that a thing? First of all, I just it there have been so many wonderful aspects of how the dynamic has changed over the last three weeks.

But one I just hadn't really thought that much about is the fact that House Republicans have spent the last two years trying to drum up controversies and scandals and impeachment inquiries in order to tar and tarnish Joe Biden. And it was a waste of their fucking time.
They did it for nothing. They got to nothing.
Biden crime family. The Biden crime family, they're going to sail off in the sunset,

hopefully with a couple of pardons,

which I support.

I do.

Throw some on there.

You guys have been through enough.

Take one for the team.

Joe, 50 years of service.

Take one for yourself.

Yeah.

Throw a couple of pardons.

By the way, put us on the list.

You're probably mad at us.

Bad time for that.

We'll ask about the pardon later.

He's not going to fucking arrest us.

Lose lose for us no matter who wins. Yeah boy i just think it's it's also we've all skipped over just the head spinning aspect of like we're a congressional oversight committee and oh by the way what we were doing with president biden was just to take him down politically now we must take down the new nominee politically so we're going to drum up a fake investigation or just like announcing it.
Just announcing it. I think the truth was revealed to me about this committee during the 5,000 Benghazi investigations.
Well, didn't like Kevin McCarthy just like basically say it to a reporter? Like we're going to use this to take down the president. I don't think they're, look, it's August.
I don't think they're going to have much time to be holding hearings. Good luck subpoenaing documents and going to court to try to get them.
Also, it's like... Look, it's not a corruption scandal involving a Ukrainian energy company.
It's the border. It's on television.
Right. Yeah, no, people know it's a problem, guys.
They're aware. Let's talk about Kamala Harris and Tim Walz who are getting such good crowds, polls, fundraising, and media coverage.
It's making me nervous. Making me nervous.
Big time. I know.
I know. Our crosstab king, Nate Cohn, came down from the mountain this weekend to bless us with a new round of New York Times Sienna polls that show Harris up 50-46 in each of the three blue wall states of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
Don't believe it for alvania where biden had been tied before the debate and very behind afterwards a new poll from north carolina shows the race there may be tied and average is closing at the very least and a huge week of swing state events wrapped up with a rally in vegas in front of more than 12 000 people the vice president announced at the event that she would stop taxing income from tips, which is also a relatively new Trump proposal. She'll also reportedly unveil a slew of economic proposals this week before the convention.
And Harris has been staking out a position on immigration that's focused on securing the border and offering undocumented immigrants a path to citizenship. she's been saying she'll sign the bipartisan border control bill that Trump had killed.
There has been an increasing amount of hand-wringing in the press and from Republicans about Harris not having talked enough about policy yet. Where do you guys come down on that? I mean, like, I was talking to someone today who said in every focus group he's done, you hear people saying like, I don't know if she understands people like me.
I don't know what she's going to do for people like me. So whether or not the press is saying, you know, she needs to roll out a bunch of policy.
I do think voters want to hear it because there's this like large information gap. Normally you'd fill that with endless boring speeches that no one ever listens to.
They have this nice opportunity to kind of fill the space in what, 100 days with shorter, pithier plans and policies. Make it a topper.
Yeah. Make it a topper.
Keep it tight. Yeah, keep it tight.
Real tight. Keep it tight.
Just for people to know, you get your stump speech. You get the same stump speech at every single event.
And all you need to do is insert a couple of paragraphs in the speech. Make it a meme.
At the top, in back and this is my new policy we're not going back when it comes to health care bullet bullet bullet and then you have the policy get out you have the policy geeks write up a white paper yeah and then they put it in a press release you do a conference call in the campaign you're done you're done you're done you're done you're not you're not writing a 4 000 word speech that no one's gonna fucking care about no please you're listening, please don't. But Blueprint, this polling firm, they did some testing.
They found 71% of voters said their minds are made up about Trump and nothing could change them. 57% said that about Harris, but 20% said their minds could be changed or that they need more information.
So I think she's got an opportunity here. But like the least effective criticism is that she needs to do more interviews.
Trump's pushing this really hard. Oh, she hasn't talked to a single reporter, blah, blah, blah.
The press court is getting whipped up. And like on some level, yeah, of course she should do interviews, but not a single voter gives a shit.
It's pushing on an open door because the reporters are going to get, they know they'll have the media on their side. I just think it's like, it's also going to keep building.
And what you don't want to do is actually, you know, you end up having so much pressure on those on those those first interviews as they draw unnecessary attention and then the questions also have to become more ferocious because it's like a big it's a big moment well which is why she's been walking up to the press pool after events when she gets off the plane to like take a few questions and then on last week late last week we were talking about this on last episode she said she would have her team schedule a sit down by the end of the month she's got the convention coming up you know you gotta you focus on with walls baby right can we just go back though to this idea that like oh she's you know she hasn't been talking about policy the campaign is three weeks so there's two parts of this first of all the campaign is is three weeks old i do agree there's a lot of people like undecided voters be like i need to hear more i need to hear more there's people that always say they need to hear more and they don't go looking, but fine. They're out there.
They're Americans and we love every one of them. But what those people really want is like fucking Santa Claus to come to their door with a big bag of presents.
For sure. So, but, but like the idea that there's like people that aren't undecided voters who feel like they're not aware of the kind of administration Kamala Harris would run as if a, there wasn't a second term Biden agenda already being laid out and be a democratic platform that hasn't already been announced like there's a whole bunch of policies and she was part of that campaign of course that's the that's the benefit one of the many benefits of having like Kamala Harris and not just a random democratic nominee who was a governor of a state who really would and even though it was just three weeks people be like well what do you stand for what do you do we know what your record was as, what are you gonna do as president? She signed on to all the Biden policy plans.
Like she can separate herself from some of them if she doesn't like them, but like- Hopefully several of them. I'd love to see some separation.
But I do think it's like, that's why it's like, this idea that there's some liability because she hasn't been talking about policy, I think is ridiculous. It's actually all opportunity.
Yes, it's upside. It's all upside to find places of difference to go further where she wants to go further, make news on something where she wants to talk about economic populist policies.
And on a lot of policies, abortion, democracy, climate, like there's just, we know like- She's out there on that. She's out there.
Yeah. And Venn diagrams.
She can make a bunch of Venn diagrams. Huge Venn diagrams.
In those New York Times polls, the reason that she's leading Trump, the reason is her favorability rating is like much higher than Biden's was now higher than Trump's and Trump's in the, in those

polls still at that 46% favorable, which is very high for Trump, but she's even higher. A majority

say that she's honest and intelligent more than say that about Donald Trump on both those, um,

that she brings the right kind of change, which is huge. It's closer on that 50 and 47, um, has

the temperament to be president and that she has a clear vision for the country. Again, that one's sort of lower than the others, which is why I think the policy thing, you know, they'll be focusing on that in the coming weeks.
And a majority doesn't think she's too far to the left either. So far, only 44% of likely voters say she's too liberal or progressive compared with 44% who say she's not too far either way.
And only 6% who say she isn't progressive enough. You don't want to, someone, some Democrat said this to playbook today.
I don't know if it was a Harris advisor or some Democratic advisor said like, we certainly don't need to be having a fight about details on Medicare for all for the next hundred days. I saw it.
I clocked it. And I believe it was a senior congressional aide.
And the reason I looked, I was like, was like hey wait stop stop don't put that out there shut the fuck up throw some salt over your shoulder spin around three times and go for it get out of here she also knew better on the economy than biden was too yeah and she's winning on um existing in the context of all in which he lived yeah huge advantage there no the economy thing is interesting because people still people have the same views about the economy they just trust her more than they did biden because they don't hold her responsible for the bullshit they held biden responsible for the last four years which wasn't really biden's fault and the bullshit might have been his age right well that's what i'm saying that's where it all comes back to but it's not that people aren't still upset about affordability and the cost of living. It's just that they are giving her a benefit of the doubt that they did not give him.
What do you guys make of her copying Trump's no tax on tips proposal? My feeling on it is like, great, do that. Take that off the table.
In it to win it. Just fucking win it you can do not like that like absolutely embrace it like there's a lot of i think like very like let's be clear not a great we didn't we didn't think it was a great policy when trump did it no still not a great policy yeah like not a bad policy just not a like i think that it is like it is a way to get more money into the hands of uh people that could use money.
Small percentage of people. It has a lot of like

unintended side effects

and it's not a great way

to help people that need help.

There's other things you could do

and other policies

you could put in place,

higher minimum wage and so forth

that would like do more for more

in a more fair way.

And the reason that

I think when we talked about this

when Trump proposed it

that we criticized Trump

is because when you propose

something like this

and then you're against

the minimum wage

and minimum wage increase

and you're proposing

a gigantic tax cut for the rich

I'm going to go to the next one. because when you propose something like this and then you're against the minimum wage and minimum wage increase,

and you're proposing a gigantic tax cut for the rich

and no tax cut or like a very small tax cut

for most other people,

yeah, then in totality,

your economic proposals are a fucking problem.

Well, one thing it does, right,

is that like, so you have,

if you have a state like California

that has a higher minimum wage

and a state like South Carolina with a lower minimum wage

and more of the income then comes from TIPS in those places,

you're basically rewarding states and rewarding employers that pay less. Yeah.
I mean, I want to just be clear that I come down on doing whatever gives her the maximum political advantage in this moment, and I don't care about anything else. But on the substance, I do think it comes down to how you implement the idea.
The concern is that employers could push labor costs onto consumers by reducing wages and then encouraging tipping. Ted Cruz, policy mind of a generation, introduced a bill called the No Tax on Tips Act that did almost nothing for low-income workers, but created a massive loophole that could allow hedge fund managers to shift their compensation to a tipping model and thus avoid paying any taxes on it.
So like that is the worst case. But I obviously Harris wouldn't do that.
I mean, no, in fact, she, her, one of her campaign officials told NPR as president, she'd work with Congress to craft a proposal that comes with an income limit and with strict requirements to prevent hedge fund managers and lawyers from structuring their compensation in that way. So they're already saying that her proposal is different than Trump's.
Yeah, and also like at the end of the day, like I imagine she tried to couple it with bringing back the child tax credit or expanding the EITC, like a lot of other more targeted policies. I just like...
Just win Arizona. Again, I'm for it completely.
Do whatever you want. I know it's like a fine policy.
I don't care. Do whatever you want.
It's fine policy. I just think that as a society- Full nihilism.
A society that shifts more and more income into tips is one in which it puts the cost onto customers over employers, and it shifts the burden from the ungenerous to the generous because over the course of a day, what's going to determine the size of your tips is how generous the people who walked in the door are someone's pissed about that ipad spinning around when he's buying a diet coke and it's like all right you didn't bring anything to my table i'm standing here no i always i always press the fucking button i always press the fucking button it's on everything now see you hovering over that 18 um what are you guys hoping to see from her in terms of other economic proposals this week? I'd like to ban some of that iPad flipping around. The most politically advantageous things possible.
Tax cuts for working families. Affordability.
Affordability. I think it's just affordability.
Affordability. Anything that's going to reduce costs for people, that's going to help and i think she's going to do that she's already signaling that affordability middle class economics

and just like a couple specific policies either that biden has already endorsed and people don't

you know really know of or maybe a few new things just to make news but that's she has she has two

policy issues that she needs to care about immigration which we're about to talk about

and affordability like and with this much time left i wouldn't think about anything else

Let's go. She has two policy issues that she needs to care about.
Immigration, which we're about to talk about, and affordability. And with this much time left, I wouldn't think about anything else.
She'll talk about abortion, right? But most of that's out there, right? That's something that you talk about. It's not like there's going to be a lot of new policy there because everyone knows what the solution is.
But beyond that, it's affordability and immigration. That's what voters consistently say that they care about more than anything else.
The White House announced that they're putting out

a bunch of

consumer protections.

And I really like that.

There's a bunch of

air travel consumer protections,

customer service

consumer protections.

Help you cancel

unwanted subscriptions.

Yeah.

Which, you know,

coming onto our territory.

But also,

let the private sector

do its thing.

Rocket money.

Yeah.

But stay in the discord but but also uh there was one about um the the doom loop of customer service and being unable to get a real person i just think those are like like quietly just things that make people seethe and i like when biden folks have done an amazing job on junk fees and like none people know about it. That's one where people getting refunds automatically as opposed to getting

airline credits or some convoluted other thing.

Like that's a Biden policy that people should know that Biden did.

If I see an advisory for a major foreign policy speech,

Oh my God,

I'm going to shut down the council on foreign relations.

Will you,

you can do that.

We're going to take away Ben Rhodes is,

I was going to say,

you better talk to your cohost.

Is he,

is he a member of the council? No, I assume assume. I was a term member for like six minutes.
No, all it meant was I paid fees and I didn't go to anything. Richard Haas over here.
Look at this fucking guy. Couldn't think of a second farm policy guy.
Richard Holbrook over here. Evo Dottler big new over there sorry how do you guys feel about her sounding pretty tough on border security oh my god we talked about them i i think that's what she should do i think like going out there and saying i was a border state prosecutor i'm for the executive order to strengthen border security i am for the bipartisan border bill that is how we build a secure border on our way to a more generous immigration system.
I'm all for it. That's what she should be saying.
Yeah, Blueprint did some testing on this too. And also talking about how, you know, I'm the daughter of immigrants.
I think immigration is important, but I think people should be rewarded who try to do it the right way like my parents did. And we need a system that rewards that.
Also, I went after these gangs. I'll go after smugglers.
I'll go after human traffickers. You know, that kind of message.
Here's one of her first ads focused on border security. And this is how it ends.
As president, she will hire thousands more border agents and crack down on fentanyl and human trafficking. Fixing the border is tough.
So is Kamala Harris. Great.
Love it. I've seen some commentators be like, wow, she's combining now being tough on border security with providing a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.
Like what a revelation. I'm like, does no one remember the Obama era? That is, this is what we, how many speeches do we write? I just like, like we, like Democrats paid politically.
And I think the policy paid for believing that the way you demonstrate that you are, umimmigration is by taking a less strong stand on border security. And actually, it had the exact opposite effect you would want.
You need to do these things to demonstrate that you're serious about the border so that you have the credibility and space to do the most generous immigration reform that you could possibly do, which is what I think our collective goal should be. The goal is not to use the border as a gauge for how generous our country is.

Our goal should be to do what we can to secure the border so we have the space to have an actual

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Okay,

before we leave you, the Magosphere wants all of us to believe that Project 2025 isn't a thing anymore. The top guy stepped down, which the Trump campaign welcomed, mockingly.
Trump himself has been trying to disavow the whole project, which hasn't gone that well since there's pictures of him on a private plane that the Washington Post dug up with the top guy. The Heritage Foundation's founder, I believe.
Yep, and they were on their way to a Heritage Foundation conference where Trump talked about how great what they're doing is and said that they are, quote, laying the groundwork and detailed plans for exactly what our movement will do. Kevin Roberts is the head of Heritage.
Project 2025 is also the gift that keeps on giving for reporters. The latest is a series of training videos obtained by ProPublica and documented.
We have two clips. Let's listen to the first.
Now, when I think of climate change, I immediately think of population control, don't you? I think you can expect that equity and all of the equity executive orders under Biden will be repealed. That's what gender-affirming care is, not care at all.
The noxious tenets of critical race theory and gender ideology should be excised from curriculum in every single public school in this country. I always think of population control when I think of climate change.
My God. It's batty stuff.
It's batty stuff. And it is just sort of interesting just to see, like, these are training videos.
There's, I believe, 14 hours of them that ProPublica has also put up. And I was like, I want to kind of get into it.
I was like, not that much into it. But these are just sort of, it is ideologue to ideologue.
It's videos that were made as if nobody was watching. It's just for them.
And like they're unrestrained kind of practical, pragmatic steps that they will take to undo every executive order on diversity, equity, inclusion, to issue rules, to restrict what schools can teach or what happens when a child comes forward and says, hey, I don't feel like a boy or whatever they come and tell a teacher and what horrors await if the Trump administration is in power. And then just their kind of genuine belief that climate change is a hoax to control the population perpetrated by liberals, by the childless cat ladies.
And it links to the J.D. Vance thing, right? J.D.
Vance is the public face of this kind of ideology. I hadn't heard that one before, this conspiracy that liberals say that if you have kids, having kids is bad for the climate.
Like having kids makes the climate, makes like... Well, there's definitely, there are, like, I mean, it's a, you know, it's a rando.
Yes, it is true. Randos on the Internet have said,

I'm not having kids because of climate change.

There's that.

I've heard that before.

But this was basically saying that like kids contribute to climate change, to pollution.

Well, I think there are, right,

that it's unethical to have kids

because your kids will contribute to climate change.

Do I think that this is a real thing

that's like upheld by like the libs?

No, of course not.

No, I'm just saying I hadn't heard that one before. There are very dumb people on the extremes of both sides, I think, this is a real thing that's like upheld by like the libs? No, of course not.
No, I'm just saying I hadn't heard that one before.

There are very dumb people on the extremes of both sides, I think, of this issue.

It's worth saying like the, I mean, this is a 900 page plan.

It's got a $22 million budget.

So it's a very real thing, even if they're trying to walk away from it.

It's policy.

It's a 180 playbook.

It's personnel.

And I guess the training component was these creepy videos.

It's very radical stuff, you know, taking control, Trump taking control of all federal agencies and putting in MAGA loyalists, mass deportations, banning Medicaid abortion, 800 pages more of stuff. That said, so very well funded, very serious, very threatening set of ideas in this whole package.
These videos are some of the most unappealing and underwhelming people I've ever had the misfortune of watching. It's the deputy chief

of staff at USAID talking to the deputy press secretary at DASA about like how to avoid the

mainstream media. I don't know.
It was pretty bad. Not helping them beat the weird allegations, that's for sure.
We have another clip where they talk more about implementation. Let's listen.
If the next Republican president does not execute a dramatic course correction, there may never be another chance. So if you're not on board with helping implement a dramatic course correction because you're afraid it'll damage your future employment prospects, it'll harm you socially, look, I get it real danger it's a real thing but please do us all a favor and sit this one out do not let career bureaucrats hinder you from advancing the president's agenda probably better off going down to the canteen getting a cup of coffee talking it through and making the decision as opposed to sending him an email and creating a thread that accountable.us or one of those other groups is going to come back and see.
I'm sorry, did he say the canteen? Yeah, the canteen. I found this to be like some of the most chilling stuff because it is they're not going to be able to, you know, if they win and they are going to be rapidly staffing, you know, hundreds of agencies with tens of thousands of people.
This is basically trying to weed out the simps, get the real diehards in there and to kind of reassure them that when they get into this bureaucracy and they make a bunch of trouble that the Trump administration will have their back, including telling them, hey, if you want to do something that some government weasel is telling you is illegal, don't write back that they should do it anyway. Walk down the hall.
Just do it. And, you know, put your finger in their chest down at the canteen to get that done.
And like, even the opening, the first, that first moment of someone saying, if you're not in favor, like he kind of uses a kind of euphemism for the amount of chaos they want to unleash. So if you're afraid this is going to affect your social standing and your job prospects, that's a reasonable fear.
Maybe this job isn't for you. Like this is like fascistic stuff, basically saying like you got to be part of the vanguard to get in there and fuck with the government.
And it may cost you dearly, but it's the right thing to do. And if you're not in, we don't want you on the team.
Like that's scary stuff. The biggest challenge for Democrats with Project 2025 is voters in a lot of these focus groups, like don't it's so it sounds so crazy.
They don't necessarily believe it. And then they don't necessarily believe that it will actually happen.
Right. Because they see Trump is like, you know, Trump's crazy in a lot of ways, but they don't think this, a lot of this vibes with him, a lot of these ideas.
And so the real challenge, I think, over the next, however many, and I think this is a challenge for the Harris-Walls campaign as well, is to make it clear that if Trump wins and J.D. Vance is in the White House too, like this shit will happen.
Yeah, I mean, this is a plug and play, you know, plan for the administration for the first 180 days. If Trump wins, there's no other thing that can happen.
There is no, there's no great transition plan. There's no policies that are pulling up the shelves.
They don't have a platform. This is it.
And this is the Republican platform. Apparently 29 of the 36 speakers in those videos have worked for Trump in some capacity, either on his transition team in the first term, in the administration, or now on his reelection.
Yeah. These are his staffers, his donors.
These organizations are, heritage has been important in Washington since the Reagan administration. Yeah.
But it took a, it took a very Trumpy turn. Very scary turn.
It's also like they're, they're going to, they're, they're going to staff the administration with, you know, thousands of people. And then those people will run amok.

And some of them will pull this off the shelves.

You know Donald Trump, famous micromanager.

Yeah.

He doesn't care.

He doesn't care.

And the worst ones will get in there and do the most damage they possibly can.

One bit of housekeeping before we go.

Dan is out with a new episode of Polar Coaster, taking a look at Tim Walls' impact on the race.

He's joined by Democratic pollster Celinda Lake, who's one of the best in the business, to look at the VP pick and how the Democratic ticket is doing in the key states. Polar Coaster is a subscriber-exclusive show, so head on over to crooked.com slash friends to get access if you haven't already.
Also, you should be following Strict Scrutiny if you're not already. It's fantastic.
It's been two years since the Dobbs decision overturning Roe, and in their latest episode, Melissa, Kate Kate and Leah Take a look back at Everything that's happened Since then And what comes next Look for the episode Titled State of the Uterus On the Strict Scrutiny feed And while you're there Make sure you're subscribed That is our show for today I'll be back with a new show For you on Wednesday And my guest host Will be our old pal David Axelrod Yeah'll talk to you then. If you want to get ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more, consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at cricket.com slash friends.
And if you're already doomscrolling, don't forget to follow us at Pod Save America on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and more. Plus, if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review to help boost this episode or spice up the group chat by sharing it with friends, family, or randos you want in on this conversation.
Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is David Toledo.
Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Farrah Safari. Reed Cherlin is our executive editor, and Adrian Hill is our executive producer.
The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.

Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.

Writing support by Hallie Kiefer.

Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming.

Matt DeGroat is our head of production.

Andy Taft is our executive assistant.

Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Phoebe Bradford, Joseph Dutra, Ben Hefcote, Mia Kelman, Molly Lobel, Kirill Pellaviv, and David Toles. This wasn't the adventure I had in mind when you said, let's rent a car in Italy.
Relax, GPS says we're on track. Wait, does that sign say Switzerland? No, no, no.
We should be near Sicily. Routing.
Ugh. Want to actually enjoy your next trip? One that's completely mapped out? With Colette's small group explorations, you can.
Our experts handle every detail, from great food to unique stays and local connections. Start your next adventure today.
Visit gocolette.com. That's go, C-O-L-L-E-T-T-E dot com.

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