MTG: Jesus Was a Felon Too

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and don't forget to checky vitor on today's show trump whines about sharks teleprompters and the heat in las vegas while his team pitches more corporate tax cuts and a quote quote, post-constitutional vision for a second term. Exciting.
Sounds great. The Biden campaign sharpens its attacks on their convicted felon opponent.
And then Pod Save America has been granted the very first world exclusive interview with America's newest reality show sweetheart and or villain. We don't know yet.
John Lovett. Since we're not allowed to ask him how he did or even what he did.
Or where he was. Or where he was.
Tommy and I will be quizzing Lovett about all the news he missed since he has this is very important. He has not seen or read anything about what happened while he was gone.
He will be joining us in studio soon. We haven't even seen him yet.
No. We got a brief message that he was back, and that's it.
Yeah, the prodigal son returns. Some of you might be wondering, no preparation.
How is this different than a normal week? And that we say, good joke. Oh, I can't wait.
I can't wait. But first, Tommy, you know how you get the Sunday scaries when thinking about your first Monday morning meeting? Always.
Now imagine that meeting is a video call with a New York probation officer. That's how Donald Trump's week started after he got special permission to do the meeting remotely and with his lawyer.
Because, of course, separate set of rules for Donald Trump than most other convicted felons. Usually in these meetings, the officer asks you about your criminal record, employment history, any health conditions, whether you have family responsibilities.
Can't imagine Trump's ever had any of those. No.
This is an especially tough one for Trump. They usually ask whether you're in contact with anyone with a criminal record, which apparently you're not allowed to be if you're on probation, all of which will get bundled into a report that will go to Judge Juan Mershon and typically includes a recommendation for what a sentence should be.
That report will likely not be made public. Trump's defense team has until Thursday to submit its own sentencing recommendation to Judge Mershon and Alvin Bragg will as well.
And then Mershon will hand down the sentence a month from now on July 11th. What do you think, Tommy? On the one hand, no previous criminal convictions yet.
On the other hand, Trump is guilty on 34 counts. He's shown zero remorse, openly trashes the judge and the process, massive civil liabilities in the recent past, including being held liable for sexual assault and fraud.
What's your recommendation? And 10 violations of his own gag order. Oh, that's a good one.
Got that one. Before we get to the recommendation, drum roll.
I had some dark thoughts reading about this, then some less dark thoughts. Which do you want first? Oh, let's start with the dark.
Okay. So if Trump wins, he can make all the federal cases go away, right? But not the state cases.
However, if he wins, the Supreme Court will probably say, okay, the Georgia case, the New York case, all of that has to go on ice while you're president because you have to be able to do the job. Which means Trump now has a very compelling reason to stick around for a third term or a fourth term or you get my gist here.
I that is a dark thought but it's also see that the political hack in me was like that's a good argument we should be making that argument let's make it i mean because the biden people and everyone's already making the argument that trump is basically running to keep himself out of jail but really this goes beyond just his general authoritarian nature too and just it's a real survival issue okay so enough of that uh less dark it is so funny that he's gonna have to zoom with this po and they're gonna be like so tell me about your living situation it's like well i live in a club uh in a golf course employment history well it's a it's a little spotty yeah what kind of financial resources you have well uh at the moment but pretty soon i'm gonna have to cut. Just references? References.
Also, did you know that Trump can submit letters of recommendation from family and friends? You know that? I think he can get any. I wonder, like, you get a group letter from, like, Fox and Friends.
I think that Don and Eric would do it in, like, crayon. I think the not, I didn't know this, that you're, like, you're not able to be in contact with other people who have criminal records while you're on probation.
Just a list, a reminder for people, people in Trump's orbit who are convicted felons. His former campaign manager, former campaign vice chairman, his former chief campaign advisor, three former campaign advisors, his former CFO, former personal lawyer, his former national security advisor, his former White House aide, and two of his former lawyers, and about a dozen others are currently facing federal felony charges and felony charges in multiple states god that's a lot of people it's gonna be tough to run a campaign and staff a white house if he can't be in contact with other people with criminal records or just be at his own club which is full of scumbags and you know ne'er-do-wells um i asked chat gpt to write a brief letter of recommendation from a friend of trump's in new york a a New York financier.
Want me to read it aloud? Okay. Dear probation officer, I'm writing to advocate for leniency for Mr.
Donald's last name. I didn't want to do Trump because I didn't want it to know.
A 77-year-old real estate professional recently convicted of financial crimes. As a close friend, I believe he deserves the lightest sentence possible.
Donald and I have shared many wonderful times together, including memorable visits to my private island and rides on my private plane. His advanced age and the nonviolent nature of his offenses should be considered in your decision.
Thanks for considering this request. I'm difficult to reach these days, but please contact my associate Ghislaine for further questions.
Sincerely, Jeffrey. So that's someone who could weigh in for him.
Chat GPT, that's pretty advanced. Yeah, it's from Jeffrey, last name brackets, jet setting New York financier.

I didn't realize that the AI was getting that smart.

It's getting good.

Yeah, that's pretty good.

That's very exciting.

So in advance of his sentencing,

Trump has of course been on his best behavior.

He's speaking carefully and respectfully

everywhere he goes

so as not to leave a bad impression

on the legal officials

who will determine his fate.

Here he is at a rally in Las Vegas over the weekend after a lovely introduction from Marjorie Taylor Greene. The Democrats and the fake news media want to constantly talk about, oh, President Trump is a convicted felon.
Well, you want to know something? The man that I worship is also a convicted felon, and he was murdered on a Roman cross. By the way, a lot of shark attacks lately, did you notice that? A lot of shark.
I watched some guys justifying it today. Well, they weren't really that angry.
They bit off the young lady's leg. He said, there's no problem with sharks.
They just didn't really understand a young woman swimming. Now it really got decimated and other people too.
A lot of shark attacks. They said, you know, we have a deranged individual named Jack Smith.
He's a deranged dumb guy. He's a dumb son of a bitch.
But those J6 warriors, they were warriors, but they were really more than anything else. They're victims of what happened.
All they were doing is protesting a rigged election. That's what they were doing.
By the way, isn't that breeze nice nice do you feel the breeze because i don't want anybody going on me we need every voter i don't care about you i just want your vote i don't care see now the the press will take that and they'll say he said a horrible thing i mean giddy up yeah believe it or not tommy there was um there was policy news in Trump's event.

He said that as president, he'd asked Congress to stop taxing income from tips,

which is obviously a pretty attractive proposal

in Vegas, where so many people work in casinos

and service industry jobs. But you really

had to dig around to find that news.

The headline of the AP story from the event

was, quote, Trump complains about

his teleprompters at a scorching Las

Vegas rally. There was also, we didn't include it,

but there's a long riff where he's done this before he yells at the teleprompter operators because he can't see the teleprompters at a scorching Las Vegas rally. There was also, we didn't include it, but there was a long riff where he,

he's done this before he yells at the teleprompter operators

because he can't see the teleprompters.

And then he says,

And riffs.

Yeah, when contractors are shitty, I don't pay them.

I'm not going to pay them for this.

It's whatever.

Part of the brand.

People like that.

What do you make of Trump's famous message discipline there?

Do you think that rally was politically or legally helpful?

So I'll divide this in three parts, like the Recovery Act.

Sorry, Jesus Christ. The shark attack aside, think it's just like kind of funny and entertaining and why people go to these things the breeze stuff too i do think there's something about a politician saying at a rally hey guys don't die i don't care about your health i just need your votes it's kind of like refreshingly honest in a way i the biden campaign made an ad from that okay sure uh the i don't care about you i just want your vote line i think it's a i think it's very useful it's funny even though he said like i you know the media is going to make a big thing with it and he was like trying to say he's joking it's one of those jokes where there's like a lot of truth in it he's half kidding he's half kidding not even half kidding like he just does want their votes and so i just i think it's it does feed into the message that i the biden campaign and I think all of us should be using against Trump that he only cares about himself.
Yeah. The line about the January 6th insurrectionists, you call them warriors, that I do think is a real problem for him.
And it's also, it's kind of like the latest tick up this escalatory ladder. We are this close to him calling on the police officer who shot Ashley Babbitt to be arrested or prosecuted or tried.
Honestly, don't give him any ideas. I like, you know, it's like, he's really, he's just, he's going to be marching with the Proud Boys in a couple months.
I mean, I think that is actually an incredibly, it's interesting that the Biden campaign went with the line about I don't care about you. You know, it's funny it sums up their message.
It folds into's so it's great very well but like that line because right he's obviously talked about you know them being political prisoners and all that kind of stuff but calling them warriors who uh just got you know they didn't do anything wrong they were just protesting a rigged election this stuff is not i'll tell you the stuff polls fucking awful and it even polls awful with unfortunately not all Republicans, but quite a few Republicans as well. The line was they were warriors, but they're really more than anything else.
They're victims of what happened. Again, these are people who, you know, kicked down the doors of the Capitol, smashed through windows, marauded through, beat the hell out of police officers, pulled them down steps, tear gas them, brutalized people.
I mean, come on. I also like, it's one thing to say, I don't know if the conviction is going to matter to my vote or maybe it was a political prosecution and it's not really a big deal to me.
That's very, very different from Marjorie Taylor Greene's line that Trump is like Jesus, who was also a convicted felon. It's not just like they're going with this, like he is our, he is our martyr.
Right. That's not going to fly with people.
You went to a Jesuit school, Holy Cross. Yeah.
Does, I'm less religious, I think, than you. Does that track with your understanding? Yes.
Yeah. It was actually, it was, he was, he was, he was 33 when he died and it was 33 felon.
Did he have a PO? It was one less than Trump less than Trump. Okay.
He did. He was not able to do it remotely though.
Imagine Christmas at her house. Jesus Christ.
What did you make of the actual proposal on income from TIPS? The TIPS proposal? I mean, I think this is one of those ideas that sounds very good and described in shorthand, but I think in practice gets complicated and is more likely to benefit corporations. So the perfect Trump policy.
Literally, I wrote that down. So the argument for not taxing tips is that tipped workers generally make lower wages, they deserve a tax break, and the accounting process can be onerous for both them and for small businesses.
Also, taxing tips could encourage people not to report them in the first place, right? So you can see the challenges there. The argument for taxing tips is you want all income to be taxed uniformly just for fairness reasons.
And taxes on tips go to essential services like any other tax. They also go to Social Security, Medicare, et cetera.
But most of all, the real concern about Trump's idea is if employers know tips aren't taxed, they will probably try to pay the lowest wages possible and push employees to make it up themselves with tips. So Democrats, the employers have to pay the tax as well.
Yes. And so Democrats generally say, let's keep tips taxed, but let's increase the minimum wage.
Let's put in place strong labor protections, et cetera. Let's, you know, get to a Medicare for all like system.
Republicans, they pitch this idea because they're anti-government, they're anti-tax, and they want to cut regulation. So exactly as you said, this idea probably sounds really good to people, polls really well, but I think in the end could hurt workers.
Well, and also Democrats now don't just want to raise the minimum wage. They want to eliminate, Joe Biden wants to eliminate the tipped minimum wage.
And that's a better way to do it so that a lot of workers don't have to rely on tips that they can get the same minimum wage as everyone else and then increase that minimum wage for all workers. In fact, Biden already in the last four years has issued an order requiring federal contractors to pay tipped workers the same minimum wage as everyone else.
So I think that's a better way to do it. But Trump saying that in Vegas with a lot of service workers, you can see people be like, oh yeah, all they see is like, oh yeah, it's a tax cut and I don't have to pay tax anymore.
That's kind of cool, even though, will he get it through a Republican Congress? No. Or any Congress, right? And wouldn't it be better to just give people a higher minimum wage? Yes.
So last time Trump was president, his economic agenda consisted almost entirely of a corporate tax cut and tariffs. And it looks like he's planning to double down on both of those in a second term.
Washington Post reported on Monday that he actually wants to give corporations and rich people yet another tax cut if he wins. The New York Times also had a report over the weekend about how it was planned to cut taxes on corporations, raise taxes on anything you buy that's made abroad.
That's the universal across the board tariff that he wants to do and deport millions of undocumented immigrants. All will likely increase prices and make inflation much worse.
How do you think Democrats should push back on this? Do you lose people as soon as you start talking about economic policy and get into the weeds? On the other hand, every poll I've ever seen, tax cuts for the rich are the most unpopular policy or one of the most unpopular policies, and that's sort of where Democrats traditionally have Republicans on the ropes. Yeah.
I mean, I want to know what you think about this. I absolutely believe that these policy ideas would be inflationary.
I am skeptical about our ability to explain it to voters in a concise way, especially when you get into the specifics of some of the policies, because part of the argument is about Trump's immigration policies, which is an area where Joe Biden starts way, way, way underwater as compared to Trump. Another piece is tariffs on Chinese imports or Chinese goods that come to the country.
And again, it seems like voters like policies that are harsh on China. Now, you're right that Trump has also proposed just an across the board tariff on all imports.
But I agree. I think the lowest hanging fruit here is the Republican plan to give more tax cuts to the richest people in the country and to corporations.
There was some recent Pew polling that found 60% of voters say they are bothered a lot by the feeling that rich people and corporations don't pay their fair share of taxes. I think those people are right to be pissed.
And the Republican plan would also explode the debt. I think it's $4.6 trillion over a decade, just if you extend the 2017 Trump tax cuts.
But Trump and his buddies in Congress apparently want to go further than just the 2017 tax cut. Yeah, I think it can be a very powerful, compelling story, but you've got to tell the story and you've got to include sort of motivation in it instead of just talking about the policy and you know trump basically passed one major piece of legislation in four years in the white house and it was a tax cut for the rich that cost four trillion dollars and that he wants to extend so it costs four trillion dollars over the next 10 years and then he wants to add another trillion dollars to it right so he wants to spend five trillion dollars in a tax cut that goes mainly to the rich he wants you to pay for it because it's adding to the deficit and he's not paying for it he didn't pay for the last one that's all he did last time did he pass anything to help workers no by the way he could have done this tipped wage proposal last time too he just didn't want to do it right because he's bullshit and now he is meeting with campaign donors and telling them like rich billionaires and saying hey vote for me and i'll get you another tax cut he's meeting with oil companies being like hey vote for me and i'll make sure that you get more uh subsidies as well and i'll cut regulations and i'll cut regulations for you so that's what that's what trump's out there doing and i think joe biden like this is a good one for the debate like donald trump keeps attacking joe biden about inflation it's like what are you going to do for inflation how does giving a huge tax cut to rich how does that help inflation? How does that help people with their costs? I'm going to do X, Y, and Z, right? Like Joe Biden wants the rich to pay more in taxes so he can cut the deficit and give everyone else a break.
You know, it's tricky because it doesn't get covered as much as the more identity inflected cultural issues that we talk about, these economic issues, because it's not 2012 anymore. Like the last time time we ran this campaign but again it i think you can tell a story that paints trump as just there to take care of himself and his rich friends and not you and i think that that works on a more emotional level than just the policy yeah and biden wants to let the tax cuts expire for people who make more than four hundred thousand dollars but he also wants to put new taxes on businesses i think think he wants to raise the rate from 21% to 28% to pay for investments in childcare, elder care, housing, education.
So things people really, really care about. And again, Republicans will call it tax and spend liberalism, but I think there's a big majority in this country who don't think that corporations pay enough in taxes, period.
And by the way, like this is one of the larger stakes in the election. You can sit here and think there's a lot.
Maybe this won't happen because the Congress will look like this and the president won't get this done. And we don't know.
The tax cuts are set to expire at the end of the year. So no matter who's president, there's going to be a major fight about taxes early on in 2025.
And again, like $4 trillion is at stake here. And either they're going to be renewed for a decade or they're not.
And that's going to mean a lot for people's taxes, for the deficit, for what people pay for affordability. And so like no matter who wins, no matter what happens in Congress, this is getting decided next year.

And so people should focus wins, no matter what happens in Congress,

this is getting decided next year.

And so people should focus on it as a big issue in this election.

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Restrictions apply. USAA! So the guy in charge of Trump's budget proposals during his first term, former OMB director Russell Vogt, may play a big role in a second Trump term.
Along with Stephen Miller, Vogt has been floated by people close to trump as a possible white house chief of staff and that should scare the shit out of us uh vote is currently spearheading the infamous project 2025 blueprint that would turn america into a christian nationalist paradise and he has written that quote we are living in a post-constitutional time still don't know what that means yeah i think it I think it means Trump can act like a dictator. Yeah, who cares about the Constitution? Basically, yeah.
Yeah, that's what I take it as to. The Washington Post just ran a chilling rundown of who vote is and what he's planning.
You can read it and see what you think post-constitutional means from the article. Tommy, what should people know about rest vote? I mean, I think you gave the top lines.
Some of the specific things he thinks is that we should no longer treat the Department of Justice like an independent agency. So that means the president can direct the attorney general to target his or her enemies.
He feels so strongly about that. Apparently, he said, if anyone brings up the DOJ's independence in a White House meeting, I want them out of the meeting.
That's yeah, that's a rational way to think about about conversation. He wants to redefine illegal immigration as an invasion and use that authority to authorize wartime powers to stop it.
Not sure exactly what that means. They want, Russ Vot wants Trump to be able to unilaterally withhold funding appropriated by Congress.
I think the constitution is pretty clear about appropriations being Congress's job. So basically, I mean, I think the big picture on guys like this is that any Trump term, a second Trump term is scary, but there's a version of it that is primarily staffed by an army of Stephen Millers.
And I would account this Russ vote guy as among them who not only have very scary and extreme views, but are willing to do things that are extra constitutional to fully erode our democracy and push us into a situation where we're more like a country like Hungary, where our courts are packed with right wing judges, districts are gerrymandered to entrench Republican control. The DOJ is going after the press.
They're going after opposition leaders. And we're talking about like fundamental changes to the character of America that will be very, very difficult to walk back back and like that is what's so scary when you read about these people in totality their plans their staffing and the fact that they have just like a vengeful boss at the top of the ticket that is willing to do anything to win and then just punish the people he hates now I also think that's a version that we're almost certainly going to get.
It's the more likely version. Much more likely for a few reasons.
One, there's a lot of Republicans, career officials, even Democrats who are just never going to work in a second Trump term. Right.
He lost a whole bunch of people at the end of the first term because of the whole insurrection thing. Two, they are giving loyalty tests to every single person who worked there.
So they're going to be smarter in who they hire. So now they are scraping the bottom of the barrel and they are making sure that when they scrape the bottom of the barrel, they only get people who are super, super loyal to Donald Trump.
And then the other thing is there's a lot of like debate about, you know, is Trump going to spend time and effort doing all these horrible things or is he just going to be so lazy that he doesn't care and he just you know sort of is corrupt and makes himself rich and tweets all the time and that's about it you don't really even need to solve that debate on this because if he is not paying attention and he's just like an idiot hanging around the oval office watching tv and eating hamburgers the rest of the government is going to be staffed by people like vote who have a lot of power and can do all this shit without Trump. And they know how to use the levers of power.
Also, they want to do something called Schedule F. They want to get rid of civil service protections, which will basically allow them to push out a bunch of professional technocrats from government and install political appointees.
They've talked about going after attorneys at agencies who have stymied them at times by telling them things were not legal. They want to change the nature of those attorneys so they get the answers they want.
So it's very, very scary. Look, there was very annoying narrative early on in the Trump administration about the Committee to Save America, all the adults in charge, blah, blah, blah.
I think those people on balance will a hell of a lot better than the second Trump term. But also, I think we benefited from the fact that no one knew what they were doing.
It was chaos. It was like Steve Bannon, you know, just knifing his opponents in the press all day, every day.
The second round will be streamlined. And this guy, Russ Vogt, I mean, he said he wants to stock federal agencies with disciples who would wage culture wars on abortion and immigration.
He's not just against illegal immigration, but against legal immigration. He said that it isn't healthy, that we have to, he's questioned whether immigration at all is healthy, whether it's legal or not.
He also argues for no separation of Christianity from its influence on government and society. And then on abortion, he said, it's not just that he is, you know, very anti-abortion.
He thinks that the family, quote, there's a quote from him, the families of the West are not having enough babies for their societies to endure. There's, yeah, if you hear someone just in your family or in your life talking about the declining birth rate, you should start to inquire about what they're reading because it's a real sign.
It's a real red flag or orange flag. He also has talked about abolishing abortion drugs and talked about a Christian immigration ethic when it comes to immigration policy.
You know what that means? It's white people only. Yes.
That's what it's very concerning. They interviewed this Mike Pence advisor um for the for the piece this guy's right this guy's like they interviewed mark short who was his former chief of staff and then and then someone else this guy chapman who's a pence's group advancing american freedom and he said there's a marriage of convenience between russ and trump russ has been pursuing an ideological agenda for a long time and views trump's second term as the best way to achieve it while trump needs people in his second term who are loyal and committed and adept at using the tools of the federal government.

To me, that perfectly sums up what we're going to get in a second Trump term

is a bunch of right-wing freaks, Christian nationalist freaks,

who don't necessarily love Trump, but are like,

oh, I can get in there and do all the shit that I've been wanting to do forever

because he's kind of an idiot who's not going to pay attention

and I'm going to have all this power.

Yeah, use the mechanics and processes of democracy to subvert it it's not good let's talk about joe biden the president just returned from his trip to france to commemorate the 80th anniversary of the d-day invasion uh he echoed reagan with his speech at pondahawk and talked about the struggle to defend democracy and tyranny predictably maGA World took this as an attack on their favorite tyrant,

even though Biden didn't mention Trump by name

or allude to him in any way.

Biden also didn't mention Trump

when he visited the cemetery for Americans killed

in France during World War I.

Though the campaign was happy for the coverage

to note that it was the same cemetery,

Trump reportedly refused to visit in 2018

because it was filled with, quote,

losers who were, quote, suckers for getting killed, a story confirmed by Trump's former White House chief of staff, John Kelly. Tommy, what do you make of the contrast here? On the one hand, you know, suckers and losers, a deep cut.
That's a deep cut from 2018, 2019, 2020, maybe. The story, that anecdote first emerged in an Atlantic story in 2020 that at the time was sourced to anonymous officials.
But clearly what happened is Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor of the Atlantic, was at the Aspen Ideas Festival or something. And he got boozed up with John Kelly, who laid this all out.
And then last year, 2023, John Kelly got pissed off and confirmed everything on the record to Jake Tapper via email. He told Jake that, you know, Trump said the troops who were held as POWs or were killed were suckers, didn't want to be seen in the presence of amputees because it didn't look good for him, called dead Americans and World War II losers, refused to visit their graves in France because he didn't want to get his hair messed up, right? So like now that that's on the record, I think like now we're cooking with gas, right? It shows how selfish Trump is, shows how awful he is.
It's visceral. But what I think we're missing is like, John Kelly, go do an interview with Jake Tapper on camera about this.
Yeah. You know what I mean? I know.
He really could use his voice on this. Biden is deeply, profoundly, personally offended by these comments.
You can hear it in his voice. But I think- Sun served in Iraq.
Yeah, but I think what really matters is the messenger, and I think it will be even stronger coming from veterans themselves. And God, if you could get someone like John Kelly to be like, this is what he said to me.
Yeah. I also found the MAGA reaction to the D-Day speech hilariously telling.
Breitbart's Joel Pollack said that Biden's speech was, quote, a veiled attack on his domestic political opposition in the upcoming election. And Eric Erickson said, I don't think it was appropriate for Biden to turn the remembrance of D-Day into a political attack on his opponent.
So I read the speech and I was like, I wonder if there was like one of those veiled Trump references. No, not at all.
It's just he talks about hateful ideologies that aren't democracy. There's a lot of like maybe Trump people out there.
I put Erickson in that camp of like, they're offended by him. They know he is a bad person.
He doesn't ascribe to their sort of like personal moral viewpoint, the views of the world, but they need to find a way to manufacture a way to get themselves to come back and support them again. So they just make up stuff like this.
It's like, oh, I was just talking about how democracy is good and tyranny is bad. That's an attack on your guy? I didn't know he was...
Yeah, I didn't know this was 1930s Germany. I mean, part of it is like he was directly talking about Vladimir Putin, right? He mentioned Russia and Putin, but the fact that they take an attack on Putin is also now an attack on Trump.
Or any just comments about World War II and defeating the Nazis. It's fucking wild.
So the Biden team has been much sharper and more direct in their attacks on Trump lately, especially on his status as a convicted felon. The vice president herself delivered a speech in Michigan on Saturday night where she went harder at Trump's conviction than I think anyone in the administration so far.
Let's listen to Kamala Harris. Donald Trump openly tried to overturn the last election.
And now he openly attacks the foundations of our justice system. Cheaters don't like getting caught.
So there was also a Politico story about the Biden folks ramping up the campaign to, quote, calm Democratic nerves, where one senior Biden official is quoted as saying, the sky is blue and Donald Trump is a convicted felon. We're not going to shy away from what the reality is.
What's your take? Do you see any difference in the campaign's approach over the last couple of weeks? Any additional insight you gained from talking to Michael Tyler, who's the communications director at the Biden campaign? Was that the political story that also folded in allowing Ukraine to hit targets in parts of Russia with US weapons as a campaign reset scenario? Yeah, campaign shakeup. That's one of the campaign shakeup things.
Yeah, so the whole story was a touch overwritten to me. Voters were clamoring for that.
I don't think Jake Sullivan and the national security team was like, let's let him hit targets in Russia near Kharkiv.

That would get us to sweep.

No, but I was glad to hear the vice president just unload like that because it is a fact that he's a convicted felon.

It is a fact that he led an insurrection.

It is a fact that he's a cheater.

And whether it's like golf or marriage or campaign finance laws, he doesn't like getting caught.

I do think it folds nicely into their frame of this is a guy running for himself and his rich buddies.

I think it's like golf or marriage or campaign finance laws, he doesn't like getting caught. I do think it folds nicely into their frame of this is a guy running for himself and his rich buddies.
The one like note that always kind of lands off to me is I do think they need to be careful about seeming angry at criticisms of the Justice Department or justice system at all. Because the voters we really need know that the justice system is flawed.
They know it makes mistakes. They know it can be racist and they know it can disproportionately harm poor people.
And there are times in the messaging that's kind of like, how dare he attack our justice system? And it's like, no, we're allowed to criticize the justice system. But what you need to know is this wasn't the system that found him guilty.
This was 12 citizens who heard a bunch of evidence. On the wilderness this weekend, this latest episode is an episode focused on black voters, undecided black voters.
And I talked to our friend Terrence Woodbury, who's conducted countless focus groups of black voters, as well as LaVorah Barnes, who's the chair of the Michigan Democratic Party. and I asked them about this about trump's like oh i'm gonna now win over black voters because they're also pissed at the criminal justice system and they said the voters they've talked to the voters lavor talked to in michigan and then terrence did a focus group after the uh conviction like they clearly think it's ridiculous that donald trump has something in common with them right and they think it's like kind of a racist statement to make but terence said to me is like there is something real in there with feelings about the justice system yeah and feelings about institutions in general and i do think that the more effective message is one set of rules for donald trump one set of rules for everyone else because everyone else who faces the justice system does not get anywhere near the benefits and the special favors that donald trump has received since he has been a convicted felon or ever since he's been a defendant yeah no one else is getting to meet with their po via zoom with a lawyer from a country club no one else could violate a gag order 10 times and not end up in prison yeah and terrence i think made very similar points about the way we talk about democracy is not this sort of perfect system that we need to protect at all costs it's you know something we need to constantly improve yeah you can't be i mean the challenge that joe biden has that every democrat has now is democracy, which is also defending a set of institutions that people have lost faith in.
Yeah. And that's a real challenge.
So you have to continue to be the person who's going to fight to fix those and make them fair for everyone against someone who wants to rig those institutions just for themselves. Like, I think that's the message.
Yeah. Broadly, it's challenging to be an incumbent right now.
We just saw a bunch of elections in Europe for the EU parliament that didn't go very well for a lot of incumbents, including the French and the Germans and others. So yeah, I mean, it's hard to defend a system.
It's hard to defend government generally because it's imperfect and flawed. And it's especially hard right now with inflation and coming off a pandemic when people feel like maybe the government didn't get it right at times.
Yeah. And what worries me is the more people tune out and the less they pay attention, the harder it is on incumbents.
And it's not just an ideological thing. Like you guys have been talking about Rishi Sunak, like he's in trouble or like doesn't matter where you are in the political.
He is a moron. He's a moron.
But incumbents across the political spectrum are facing the similar sentiment, right? Which is, I'm just pissed off. I'm angry.
Who's in charge? I'm going to vote them up. Yeah.
And I think that that's why, you know, Biden constantly has to turn it into a choice. You're seeing elections all over the world where incumbents mostly are doing very badly.
And you're seeing instances where brand new political parties are getting propped up and created and peeling off big chunks of the vote because people are like, you know what? All politicians are bad. They're all the same.
So let's burn it down or try something totally new and radical. Yeah.
I don't just mention that as a downer. Like we should realize that this is not just a Biden problem that Biden's facing.
Right. And so that if Biden were anyone else, if he were younger, if he was like, you know, the most talented communicator America has ever had.
Right. He would still be facing a lot of these challenges because they're just systemic, which, again, is why you've got to make it about the choice.
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The only thing can I, I'll say. The only piece of news that has been spoiled for me is when I turned on my phone, it would have been spoiled anyway, but the first thing I saw that had a spoiler was a fundraising text from Ro Khanna telling me that Trump had been convicted.
But then everyone had texted me that. Fucking Ro Khanna.
Ro, you owe us an apology. Oh, so it was everyone.
They all did. All the fake bots did.
No, no, no, no. Don't absolve him.
Congressman Khanna, we want an apology. Yes, we do.
But so he was the first. Yeah, so there was a crush of text about that, but that was the first one I saw.
Okay, so now that you're back, we thought it would be fun to give you a little news quiz about what happened while you were gone. This is a game we're calling The Immunity Idol Can't Save You Now, Bitch.
And Tommy had a baby. Yeah.
All right, so as you just mentioned, Ro Khanna did spoil the biggest piece of news for you about Donald Trump's conviction, but we do have one question about some of what happened outside the courtroom. Which of these things did not happen? Did not happen.
So two of them happened, one of them did not. A, Donald Trump appeared on stage at a post-conviction rally in the Bronx with a rapper who's been indicted for attempted murder.
B, Robert De Niro called a Trump supporter a fucking idiot during a Biden campaign press conference that he headlined outside the courtroom. C, Tim Scott went on Fox News to decry the verdict and actually ended up literally crying.
Wow. That's actually very difficult.
I don't think Tim Scott cried. Is that right? Yes.
I don't think he cried. I think I'm sure think he cried I'm sure he did something very pathetic but I don't think he cried I don't really know what he did but how about Robert De Niro doing a press conference organized by the Biden campaign you know why I thought that was true you know why I thought that was true is because you can get Robert De Niro to go to something in New York that's right it's basically I think it's.
That's right. Like, it's basically, I think it's like a quick drive for him.
That's why I figured it was true. He'd get a press conference.
He'd get in a heated exchange with some hecklers, Trump supporter hecklers. They were saying, fuck him.
He was saying, fuck you back. It was a real, and that was before the verdict.
It was real New York. It was before the verdict.
Any other questions about how the verdict went down? Well, I mean, so I guess what I, okay, so he's a, he's convicted. So he's a felon.
Yeah. And my first thought was, if again, if I had like Google or if I'd like gone to look at anything and I like, I was going to go find out what was happening.
It would be like to look up. Okay.
Does Ron DeSantis have to give him his vote back? Like, oh, oh, so that was, it's funny. That was one of the first questions.
The Florida law is if you're out of state or if you were convicted out of state, it's up to the state's laws that you were convicted in. So New York, unless you're in prison in New York, you can vote.
OK, OK. All right.
That was someone asked Ron DeSantis and Ron DeSantis said, course oh i will i will if if necessary i'll do whatever

we need to make sure he gets his vote back even though other convicted felons in florida despite the passage of amendment four the ballot measure they don't have the right they still have to like pay all these fees in order to get their rights back trump did a zoom with his probation officer today yeah today was the probation officer meeting and the sentence will be july 11th This is so fun.

Wait, hold on.

Okay.

So. Today was the probation officer meeting, and the sentence will be July 11th.
This is so fun. Wait, hold on.
Okay. So wait, what? Oh, wait, wait.
When's sentencing? Sentence is July 11th. Wow.
Three days before the Republican National Convention. Perfect.
But if he's sentenced to jail, it could happen that day? No, because the sentence, he probably won't have to serve the sentence until the appeals process goes through and the appeals process will push it well past the election so we're not gonna get the stewart eventually said fuck it take me to jail right so we're not gonna get we're not gonna get trump jail time before we don't think before the election but yeah but about nine hours of deliberation and they came back with the verdict and have we heard from any of the jurors having the any of the jurors done any press tours? No, but there was a hoax where someone on Facebook posted a post on Facebook that said, hey, my cousin is a Trump juror. And guess what? He's going to be convicted.
And then Judge Mershon had to say that this is a post that was there. And then MAGA was like, this is it.
It's going to be a mistrial. And then the guy was like, I'm a shit poster.
It was just a joke. That just happened this weekend.
That's a recent one. Wow, okay.
We haven't heard from any of it. There was a whole story about maybe one of the jurors was a Trump plant.
Everyone was worried before the verdict that like Mark Caputo for the Bulwark wrote this whole thing that was like, there's this one juror that every time Trump and all of his friends come into the courtroom is like smiling at them and nodding and they lit up when J.D. Vance walks in.
It was the entire story about eye contact. Wow.
Entire story. And so nine hours.
Yeah. Nine hours.
But they said yes, they convicted on all counts. All counts.
34 counts. Wow.
Oh, there's a lot of suspicious reporting that Joe may have been sleeping and farting throughout the trial. No, he was sleeping.
No, sleeping and farting was reported before I left. Okay, okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The farting was ongoing, so you know.

Was there any new farting developments?

There was no new farting.

You didn't miss any new farting.

No, no, no.

Okay.

All right, Tom.

Okay, so there was some big debate news while you were gone.

Which of these things didn't happen?

Okay.

A, Joe Biden challenged Donald Trump to two debates in a video that ended with,

make my day.

B, Donald Trump said he wants Joe Biden to take a drug test before they debate. He said that before.
I believe that that's real. C.
The two campaigns couldn't agree on the rules. The moderators were the networks.
And as of now, there are no debates scheduled. D.
The first debate will be in June and the second will be in September. One did not happen.
One, only one, only one did not happen one only one only one did not happen um i'll say no debates uh we got a debate in just a couple weeks the june the night between our uh brooklyn event and the boston psa show thursday night there's going to be a debate what was it was it like a game of chicken? Why are we debating in June? It was Biden. It happened so fast.
It happened so fast. One day Biden releases this video, said that they want to do away with the commission.
Great. And I don't like the sets.
So it was first thing in the morning that Biden campaign released the video. And within like two hours, the Trump campaign was like, we agree.
Let's do it. Done.
Two debates.

One in June.

Jake Tapper, Dan Abash, CNN in Atlanta.

And then this no audience.

That was part of the rules.

And they get to cut off your mic if you go past the. That's good.

So it's like all the rules that the Biden folks wanted, which is really weird that Trump agreed to it.

And then the second one is ABC, I believe.

Right.

Yeah, I think so.

ABC in early September. Hosted by Cat Turd2.
Okay, they got CatTurd2. And yeah, honestly, I can't even remember some of the people we hated.
Well, here comes the next one. And the vice presidential debate's gonna be, they haven't figured out the date yet, but they've agreed to that sometime after, obviously, Trump picks the VP.
Right, right, I was about to say, I was like, right, okay, so we don't know who that is yet, so it has to be after. But wait, but why? I don't understand.
They've never, it's before they're even officially the nominees. I know.
Yeah, it's weird. I know.
Oh, and RFK is very upset about it, which we're going to get to next. RFK is very upset about it because he thinks that he could qualify.
For the commission debates. Well, and CNN has rules that you have to be 15% in four national polls or you have to be on the ballot in enough states that equals 270.
And RFK, I think, has hit the polling threshold, but not necessarily. He's saying he hit the ballot thing, but no one else has confirmed that yet.
Yeah, it's a problem. Well, that's something to worry about.
But he thinks he can get it by September, but I don't think he can get it by June. But we don't know.
That's still ongoing. June.
Speaking of RFK. It is June.
17 days. Yeah, 17 days.
Can you imagine that? It's going to be a big. Wow.
It's going to be a big last week of June. It's before or after the show? It's between shows.
It's Thursday. So we have the Brooklyn show Wednesday night.
The debate is Thursday night after our book event. And then Friday night is the Boston show.
Oh, wow. That's

good content. It's good content.
Okay. Great

content. So, some RFK news

when you were out. The New York Times,

big story in the New York Times, reported that

RFK Jr. has suffered from

what medical issue? A,

a drug-resistant STD

that could have been prevented with the vaccine.

B, a parasitic worm that ate

part of his brain. C, a hospitalization caused by taking too much ivermectin it's one one's true one is true sorry yes on this one one is true std brain worms brain worms he has brain worms he had a he had a worm that ate part of his brain in 2010 he was memory loss and mental fogginess.
So he went to a doctor and they determined that there had been some sort of worm in his brain that consumed a portion of it. Do we know what part? And then died.
And died in his brain. He's fully recovered from it.
So says RFK Jr. You can't fully recover from a worm eating your brain.
Those don't grow back. No kidding.
That happened with RFK Jr. Actually, honestly, okay, that makes sense.
That's how you go from being an environmental lawyer to whatever this is. Doesn't explain the people around him.
Maybe it's contagious. Well, speaking of the people around him, there's also a big story that his VP candidate did have sex with Elon Musk while on ketamine at a party.
Who hasn't? Well, I mean, I feel like the ketamine part is sort of gums with the territory. Tell me, go ahead.
Does it make it better or worse? I don't know. I don't know.
Okay. There was a pretty wild Supreme Court controversy a few weeks ago that is still making big news.
We're going to take it in a couple parts. First, what expletive did a neighbor say to Justice Alito's wife as the two of them, the justice and his wife, were out taking a walk that sparked this multi-week controversy.

Is it A, slut?

B, shit for brains?

C, the C word?

Oh, it can't be the C word, can it?

I'm going to say shit for brains.

See you next Tuesday, pal.

Oh, yeah.

I'm sorry.

Someone on the street just... So Alito's wife got astray.
Oh, it gets so much better. Okay, okay.
So this is, so it's, the facts of how this fight originated, we'll get to that. Yeah.
So this, this fight escalated when Mrs. Alito did what? A, keyed a neighbor's car.

B, harassed a neighbor on social media with a fake account. C, flew a stop the steal flag outside their home, the Alito home.
It's got to be the fake account, right? Oh, no. Mrs.
Alito. Wait, what? There was a stop the steal.
There was an upside down American flag flown a couple weeks after january 6th outside the alito's home and the neighbors got a picture of it it was the front page of the new york times samuel alito samuel alito i'm sorry can't you get flags are not like oh whose spouse's flag is in front of the house.

Well, it's funny you should say that.

It's his flag, right? In Alito's very long explanation letter, he said, I cannot control my wife and the flags that she flies.

What are you talking about?

What are you talking about?

It's my wife's flag.

That is the dumbest fucking.

My wife is fond of flags.

I am not.

That's what the letter is saying.

This isn't a letter. What the said.
This isn't a letter...

What the fuck?

This isn't a letter where he refused to recuse himself from January 6th.

So you're telling me Justice Samuel Alito had a Stop the Steal flag flying outside of his fucking house?

Just a couple weeks after...

It was an upside-down American flag.

An upside-down American flag?

Yeah, and he also claimed the letter, I didn't know what it meant. I don't know.
It was just people. It's a distress flag.
It's a distress flag. Last part of this.
Yeah, it gets funny. Things got even worse.
News outlets then reported that Miss Alito did what? A. Raised a second stop the steel flag outside their vacation home.
B. Was heard blasting the J6 choir song in her car no c was spotted wearing a q anon t-shirt in her backyard wow i honestly it could there's no there's no i don't know what the truth could be anything uh i'm gonna say i'm gonna say q anon shirt.
Second Stop the Steal flag.

Their vacation home in New Jersey.

Their second home in New Jersey.

Two years later.

Two years later.

Two years later.

This is the Appeal to Heaven flag,

which is another sort of like right-wing Christian nationalist flag

that was associated with Stop the Steal people.

And so that's their second flag.

He also said, he's like,

I thought that was a flag that had the dates back to the Constitution.

Because apparently the founders flew flags like that.

I don't know.

It's wild.

There it is.

It's outside their house.

Yeah, that's the flagpole.

That's the appeal to heaven flag.

Oh, man.

That's a fun one.

Well, Justice Samuel Alito had to stop the steal flag flying in front of his home.

Yeah.

And he won't recuse from the immunity case.

It's unbelievable.

Which has not been,

spoiler,

has not been decided yet.

We're still waiting.

Still waiting on that one.

Yeah, I guess that would have been.

They haven't taken any of the big cases yet.

I mean,

we haven't heard any of the big cases yet.

Wow.

I know.

I know.

And like,

here's a pop quiz.

Do you think Senate Democrats

are investigating Sam Milito over this

and subpoena?

No.

Dick Durbin, I think, sent a few nice letters.

Dick Durbin's disappointed.

He's disappointed.

You know.

And Roberts, did Roberts weigh in?

I think Roberts weighed in.

Well, no, the Senate Democrats asked Alito to recuse.

And in his response back, which came from Alito himself, because he has to make the decision.

Roberts doesn't make it.

That's where he included the language.

It's like, my wife is a flag enthusiast.

I am not.

A flag enthusiast? She's doing semaphore some welcome news which of these trump associates will report to jail in just a few weeks for a sentence that will last through the election a ru Giuliani b steve bannon c roger stone uh is Giuliani convicted of anything? I'm going to say Bannon. Bannon's going to jail.
Bannon's going to jail. July 1st through November.
For what crimes? Contempt of Congress. Oh, okay.
Okay. Okay.
And he kept trying. Because those are running.
Those are still happening. He kept trying to appeal, appeal, appeal.
And finally, the judge was like, I'm not letting you just hang in limbo and appeal this for and you know an indefinite amount of time you're going to jail wow and he gave this big press conference saying like i'm doing it as a patriot you're never going to shut me up so so if anybody's you know tommy's got a free uh 45 minutes a day now that was my that's what i said on the pod so uh guess guess a co-host of the war room right here. See if he can pitch something and fill his convention.

Bonus question.

Trump recently kicked off Pride Month by kissing which convicted felon pal on stage at a rally in Arizona?

Wait.

Convicted felon kicked off Pride?

Oh, kissed a convicted felon for Pride.

Well, it wasn't for Pride. It's how he kicked off Pride.

I just don't know if that feels like a...

Is Pride a red herring? I guess it is. Yeah.
Bit of a red herring. Who is a convicted felon? Hint, Trump had pardoned him.
Trump kissed a pal. It's just strange.
He doesn't really kiss. That's what he said after he kissed him.
He goes, I don't usually kiss men, but this guy. I figured.
Well, that's, I don't know who. Joe Arpaio.
Oh, I would never. That's was trying to i couldn't think of arizona conviction was a bonus and i was thinking of the electors but none of them okay even though rudy's not going to jail just yet there was some other fun rudy giuliani news during his 80th birthday party what did one guest do after serenading him that made headlines the next day? A, got caught on a hot mic using a slur for Italians.
B, served him with a subpoena. C, vomited on Rudy and his date.
I'm going to say, I think the darkest is vomiting, so I'm going to say vomiting. Served him with a subpoena.
That's actually, yeah, maybe that is darker. And the Daily Mail headline guests at rudy giuliani's 80th birthday scream and cry as the party ends with him being served a subpoena honestly i take back what i said that is the dark for him that that is that is so man you're just sitting at your 80th birthday party and it ends with you being handed a subpoena i forgot the best the best part was he at the Arizona attorney general from the birthday party and was like, if you don't serve me by midnight, it expires and you can't get me.
And then he has these women in the background, these young women at the party. And so two hours later, they served him.
They served him at the party. That is so fucking funny.
And apparently it was someone who was part of the singing of the happy birthday who served him. So he's taunting them.
He's taunting them that you can't serve me. I'm at my 80th birthday party.
Yep. And they had somebody at the party.
Yeah. That is so cool.
So good. That is so good.
That was a fun one. There was that story where he was overheard at Mar-a-Lago saying like every day it's like waking up in a nightmare.
Remember that? It was like just like his day, his life has become like a fucking funhouse mirror terror of what his life was supposed to be. He can't understand it.
Anyway. That's about right.
Okay. Final one.
Congress was as productive as ever while you were gone. Sure.
Which of these things did not happen? A, Democrat Jasmine Crockett told Marjorie Taylor Greene she had a bleach blonde, bad built, butch body during a congressional hearing. MTG referred to Lauren Boebert as, quote, the Beetlejuicer in chief during a House Republican caucus meeting.
C, AOC called John Fetterman a bully after he compared the House to the Jerry Springer show. Two of those did happen? No, one of those didn't happen.
The other two did happen. Okay, okay.
Fetterman a bully? Beetlejuicer in chief? Blonde, butch? Bleach blonde, bad built, butch body. I think that feels, honestly feels honestly that feels I think that that's real and so Beetlejuicer in chief I'm gonna say Beetlejuicer in chief is fake nice is that right in fact after she called Marjorie Taylor Greene a bleach blonde bad built butch, Marjorie Taylor Greene started the whole thing as a big surprise by saying something that was rather racist that I can't remember now.
And then they started selling bleach blonde bad-built butch body merch. I mean, it's a beautiful term of phrase.
You got to own that. You got to take that back.
I get that. It's poetic.
And then it was one of those like, you know, obviously everyone realized that MTG was at fault, but everyone was like, oh, Congress is crazy.

And Fetterman called it a Jerry Springer show.

And then AOC went after Fetterman for.

Yeah.

No.

But you said you were gone.

Jasmine Crockett is trying to trademark it.

I can't.

I just Googled that.

I just like, I know it's my job to know what's happening. I understand that.
And I guess I'll have to keep knowing what's happening. What you're learning is how little value there is in most of what you missed.
Right, right. That's interesting.
That's interesting. That's interesting.
But keep downloading. It was a funny social experiment that like, I guess you knew about the verdict, but like, what's the most shocking news and the Alito flag.
The Alito flag. Well, I mean, here's, I think here is what's shocking.
That story began with someone on the street calling the wife of a Supreme Court justice the C word. And by the end of it, you're like, I get it.
Yeah, I see how that happened. Yeah, the timeline's all weird like the alitos claimed that uh this neighbor neighbor couple put up some signs that were offensive to them so that's why she hung the stop the steel flag but then she did it in response to the c-word but that's not true but then not in response to the c-word okay yeah then the timeline got all unraveled so basically the alitos are lying about this in addition to flying multiple insurrection flags.
So you got Ginny Thomas, Martha Ann Alito, some just some real housewife shit. The fact that at a Supreme Court justice's home, two homes, there could be two right-wing, like one to blatant stop the steel flag flying.
like that only comes out because of I guess like a similar beef as the one that happened between one more the Washington Post had this story right after it happened and decided not to run it they were like ah it was just a dispute between Mrs. Alito and a neighbor but they knew about the flag?? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And the Times ran it just recently.
But it's such important news. I know.
It's really important news. It's big and important news.
It's interesting, too. There's a whole drama going on with the Washington Post, too.
Oh, yeah. Anyway, welcome back.
It's great to be back. We missed you.
Welcome back. That's our show for today.
We'll be back with another episode on Wednesday. Bye, everyone.
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