Chris Christie's Last Stand (Live from San Diego!)

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Welcome to Pod Save America.

I'm John Favreau.

I'm Sam Sanders.

I'm John Lovett.

I'm Tommy Vitor.

I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

We have an outstanding show for you tonight.

The mayor of San Diego, Todd Gloria, is here.

Woo!

We are so happy to have Sam Sanders with us, co-host of the excellent podcast, Vibe Check.

You're so happy to be here.

I love San Diego.

All right, let's get to the news.

So we had another Republican primary debate this week.

While we're all hoping it would be the last, they just announced today there will be three more in January.

And after watching Wednesday night's debate in Alabama between Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, and Chris Christie, it's hard to see why.

The debates will continue until morale improves.

I'm just mad I had to go to newsnation.com to like

it it was on the CW on my television

they were airing it there that still exists yeah

um so despite promises from the moderators that uh the debate would focus on Trump the only person who took that seriously was uh last place candidate Chris Christie let's listen I look at my watch now we're 17 minutes into this debate and except for your little speech in the beginning we've had these three acting as if the race is between the four of us

the fifth guy who doesn't have the guts to show up and stand here, he's the one who, as you just put it, is way ahead in the polls.

And yet, I've got these three guys who are all seemingly to compete with, you know, Voldemort.

He or shall not be named.

They don't want to talk about it.

The fact is that when you go and you say the truth about somebody who is a dictator, a bully, who has taken shots at everybody, whether they've given him great service or not over time, who dares to disagree with him.

Then I understand why the Thieves 3 are timid to say anything about it.

Maybe it's because they have future aspirations.

Maybe those future aspirations are now or maybe they're four years from now.

So yeah, that was Pod Save America, guest Chris Christie.

Dan, Christie suggested that,

as you heard there, that maybe the reason his opponents aren't taking on Trump directly is because they have future aspirations, which is a take directly from the message box.

Questions, did you know he was such a fan?

And what do you think Christie was trying to do last night?

So when Lovett was preparing to interview Chris Christie, he came to me and said, can you give me some advice?

And I said, I need you to do two things.

One, do not fall for him.

Do not bro out.

Number two, grab his phone and subscribe him to the message box.

So one for two is not bad.

I just want to say, Dan, I mean, look, if you tell someone, don't fall in love with that guy, he's a bad boy.

It's going to happen.

It's going to happen every goddamn time.

So I want to give Chris Christie, Pot Save America, guest, John Levitt, role model, the benefit of the doubt.

I don't.

And I believe.

I believe he sincerely believes all those things he said about Donald Trump.

But I'm sorry, though.

Follow me.

If Trump won and wanted to appoint Christie, he would do it.

I think no.

I think no.

No, I think this dude has shown that he will do whatever he needs to do to stay around.

Attorney General.

Sam, I want to give you a warning.

Do not attack Chris Christie on this stage with these people.

You're talking about my friend.

Yes.

I just don't trust that.

Don't even say a bad word about Mitt Romney on this stage with these three.

I'll tell you that.

I just compare him to like Lindsey Graham, who, when I covered election 2016 in those early debates, talked so much shit about Donald Trump.

And then Trump gets in office and Lindsey Graham is just up that man's ass for four years.

I don't trust these guys.

I don't think you should trust them.

Very clear.

Thank you.

Chris Christie

knows this might have been his last debate.

They basically, the RNC basically had to rig the polling to get him on that stage because he was hours away from not making it.

And they had to include a poll they would otherwise not have included.

I think because News Nation was desperate for any sort of entertainment at their one moment in the sun.

And so this was the moment to do it.

We loved it.

You guys loved it, as evidenced by your applause.

We have more clips coming from Chris Christie.

But I think we have to recognize that Chris Christie, in the mind of Republicans, is a Democrat.

So let me put that in perspective.

Chris Christie's approval rating among Republican primary voters in the most recent Monmouth University poll is 12%.

Do you know what Barack Obama's approval rating with Republicans was on the last day he was president?

14%.

Jesus Christ.

He is not.

I'm glad he said it.

It's good for the historical record book that he said it.

It has zero impact in the Republican primary.

I knew that Dan was going to say this.

And there was a poll out after the debate that showed they did a pre-debate poll of Republican voters who watched the debate and a post-debate poll.

And the one candidate, when they asked, would you be considering this candidate the one candidate who gained the most out of anyone in the debate was chris christie and then dan said okay well what percentage and they said he went from 21 to 29 percent

huge

that's the eight point bump people considering in the 20s donald trumps at 62

um so in terms of polls endorsements fundraising uh nikki haley was the candidate with the most momentum heading into the debate uh which which is why she was the target of so many attacks from DeSantis and Vivek.

Here's some of that.

Other candidates up here like Nikki Haley, she caves anytime the left comes after her, anytime the media comes after her.

Nikki, you were bankrupt when you left the UN.

After you left the UN, you became a military contractor.

You actually started joining service on the board of Boeing, whose back you scratched for a very long time, and then gave foreign multinational speeches like Hillary Clinton is.

And now you're a multi-millionaire.

That math does not add up.

Nikki is corrupt.

This is a woman who will send your kids to die so she can buy a bigger house.

Love all the attention, fellas.

Thank you for that.

First of all, he's mad because those Wall Street donors used to support him and now they support me.

I'm glad we stopped in the shot of Ron DeSantis doing the.

That's what he always does.

Ron DeSantis.

Ron DeSantis stands there, like right before he walked on stage.

Someone whispered in his ear, you have arms, go.

Whenever I think of Ron DeSantis, I think of Prince, the artist formerly known as, because they wear the same heels.

They wear the same heels.

And I've never forgotten that.

Sam, how do you think that Haley handled all the incoming in this debate?

Because it's probably the most she's taken in any debate.

And do you think any of the attacks from Vivek or DeSantis will stick?

No.

I think only the base was watching to even think about having their minds changed.

And I think of all of the

men clamoring to take Nikki down a notch, it just made her seem like the strongest person in the room.

And now I just think of it as like Nikki and the boys.

It's Nikki and the boys.

And Nikki seems the least crazy.

Nikki seems the least crazy.

And so I think she won that debate.

I think she's got some good money behind her now.

But I also think that like none of them should get their hopes up.

Who listens to the daily this morning?

Yeah, you did.

Second half, they introduced this idea of a factional candidate.

Who listens to that?

I listened to it.

We did.

So it's this idea.

You get an A.

You get an A plus.

They listen.

They say

fuck the daily.

They listen to the crooked podcast.

What it at?

To both.

Yes.

Listen to both.

That's right.

The rivalry we all care about.

Long story short, this expert on the daily lays out the case that Nikki Haley is a factional candidate.

She's surging right now, but she'll only be really popular with a faction of the GOP electorate.

And she'll never get past that faction.

And once you see her as that, you know that the only way she makes it is if something really bad happens to Trump and he's out of there.

Otherwise, she ends up like all the other factional candidates in recent history.

Kasich, factional candidate.

McCain, factional candidate.

Jesse Jackson, factional candidate.

Bernie Sanders, factional candidate.

And so I think what Nikki Haley has to do, knowing that, is triangulate in a way that Trump does not have to.

Because she knows there's a good chance that she'll never be a nominee.

So she needs to...

appeal enough to the right groups of people to be able to land somewhere else after this.

But I don't know.

I think she's surging right now.

But unless Trump is like taken away in handcuffs, he's the nominee, right?

Still.

Well, no, I know that Dan here disagrees because he's on the Haley train and he thinks she's going.

But like,

barring Trump being disallowed from running or put in the jail, what puts Nikki Haley over Trump?

Absolutely nothing.

Nothing.

Okay.

I have been sitting here for weeks now listening to people talk about surging Nikki Haley and how she's the electronic trump that is mathematical idiocy yep and it drives me insane but she's still 30 points because look I get it the press they really had in their budget lines a competitive Republican primary they are not getting that I think a lot of people would like to live in a country where some where Nikki Haley for as bad as she is could win the Republican nomination not Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis that's not the country we live in let's put some numbers to this okay

in the a recent NBC poll they asked asked voters who their first and second choice was.

Donald Trump is the first or second choice of 71% of voters.

That's a lot.

That's a lot.

Ron DeSantis, who we all make fun of, is a ridiculous, awkward nerd.

Goober.

Goober.

Goober.

Perfect word.

54%.

Nikki Haley, 28%.

Consider her as first or second choice.

Nikki Haley's approval rating.

has gone down as she has quote unquote surged because more Republican pro-Trump voters have soured on her.

Her net approval rating right now, so that your approval rating in minus your disabilities is 12 points.

Donald Trump's 58.

Rhonda Sanders's 43.

Right?

It's a fiction and creation.

She is exactly, as Sam said, a factional candidate who appeals to the 38% of Republicans who say they oppose the MAGA movement.

You cannot get there.

in a race like this because eventually, this is why all these factional candidates lose.

Eventually it becomes a two-person race, and the factional candidate can't get to 50%.

So I feel better now.

So thank you for allowing me to do that.

We're on the same page.

I thought Sam said fashionable candidate, and I was like, yeah, she dresses pretty well.

It's a little bit of feedback.

It was hard to hear.

That nod along.

Like, yeah.

That's dressed amongst the bunch.

I mean, she looks great.

And we should say why she's a factional candidate because she represents a Republican Party that mostly doesn't exist anymore.

It's a pre-2016 Republican Party.

It's the Republican Party that was more internationalist, less isolationist, more in favor of immigration, more

focused on free markets and like the debt.

And she talks about this every debate.

She's like very obsessed with the debt and the deficit and like just all kinds of stuff that Republicans used to care about before Donald Trump came along.

And so she is, I think, now the natural place for either anti-Trump Republicans or Republicans who still believe in the party that was pre-Trump.

And that's just a third of the Republican electorate.

And it just hasn't budged budged since then.

Also,

I was just watching the debate, it is a testament to how terrible Ron DeSantis is that she's being treated like, oh, wow, like charisma, you know, talent.

She does fine during this debate.

There was a moment that I thought was like telling, I think Chris Christie is...

like the best politician up there.

He's just offering, I do believe that.

Sorry, deal with it.

He's my best friend.

But he's just offering something they don't want.

If he was the best.

he's offering something.

Let me go right from here to New Hampshire.

He's offering something that they don't want.

Fine.

But there was a moment where

he jumped in to defend Nikki Haley, and it was kind of strange, right?

And like Nikki Haley just took the compliment.

But I think a stronger person...

You know, she's a better politician than Ron DeSantis, but the idea that she just stood there and let Chris Christie defend her is supposed to jump in.

But what do you do?

I found it quite patronizing.

Yes, it was.

What can you do in them besides just defending her?

I don't need you to fucking defend me.

Chris Christie, you loser that no one here likes except for the Pod Save America audience.

Exactly.

Also,

Chris Christie, you defending me is hurting me with the voters I actually need, so please shut up.

Stop helping me, you unpopular fuck.

No.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm arguing with the most annoying person any of us has ever met.

But let me take a second to say, and I'm not giving any flowers to Nikki Haley, but to be the only woman on that stage when the the men are going after you like that, you're in a hard bind.

You're in a hard bind.

Yeah.

So I can totally understand her not responding to Chris Christie patronizing her.

I can totally understand any response she gives because they were bullying her because she's a woman.

And I can say that and still not like her.

But like they were bullying her because she was a woman.

And that was just like, they're still doing that.

They're still doing that.

Can any of you name the three counties in eastern New Jersey that Chris Christie is from?

Eastern New Jersey.

What an insufferable prick.

Who sits there and thinks, like, oh, yeah, everyone loves the annoying dickhead who gives geography pop quizzes at debates.

Do you think being president is like, sir, where should we land the plane?

He's like, repeat something you memorized back in the day, like a far-flung country, Bratislava.

Like, what are you talking about?

How did he think this is a good attack?

He has the energy of a hospital administrator eagerly denying your claim because you filled out the paperwork incorrectly.

That hit me hard.

Wow.

So Haley took a lot of incoming from DeSantis, but he took some incoming of his own from Chris Christie for being too afraid to take on Trump.

Let's listen to that exchange.

Why isn't he just answering the question?

The question was very direct.

Is he fit to be president or isn't he?

The rest of the speech is interesting, but completely non-responsive.

And if we were in a courtroom, they'd strike the answer and say, Governor DeSantis.

No, they're a smart.

You're a smart argument that

would strike the answer

because you're not answering him.

Is he fucking

aware?

Is he fearing it?

No, I'm not my thing.

We doze the thing.

No, not Governor DeSantis.

You're not going to be able to do it.

I think we have an opportunity to find somebody.

Yeah, we're fucked.

I just want to say.

Fucked.

Horrible.

Oh, my God.

Horrible.

I only heard it.

Now I saw it for the first time.

I'm rock hard right now.

It's a.

Don't egg him on.

Wait.

And it's like, what are you saying?

When are we starting?

I just think it's amazing to me that Ron DeSantis...

through that diatribe, and as Christy is just laying into him, he decides to jump in on, no, no, no, the court reporter wouldn't strike it from the background.

Actually, actually,

anything you want about me, but I am drawing the line at that.

What I said was admissible.

It was admissible.

Which is, that is his energy.

Tommy, to the extent that this debate mattered at all, which I would posit it did not,

it was about whether DeSantis or Haley

probably helped themselves more since they are the ones battling it out for second place right now.

Who do you think did better?

And or do you think either candidate actually helped themselves in this debate?

I mean, look, again, I don't have my finger on the pulse of the Republican electorate, as you can tell, right?

I'm more inclined to think Chris Christie did.

Well, Ron DeSantis, for me, everything

he says is delivered in the tone of a child who thinks he bargained 30 more minutes of TV time.

You know what I mean?

He's like, no, I did it.

You said I could watch SummerSlam.

You know, it's like,

dude, like, what are we talking about here?

And so it's hard for me to get past that and how annoying he is.

I do think he looked weak there and Chris, Christie got him.

And, you know, he wasn't answering, and he made him look kind of ridiculous, like he was ducking the question.

For Nikki Haley, I mean, it is very, very hard in debates when everyone is coming after you.

I thought she was very strong in the front and then faded a little by the end because she was just getting hammered from every side.

I mean, when this little dweeb holds up, like Nikki equals corrupt, what do you do with that?

Also, you know, her husband is in the military.

He's deployed overseas.

And Vivek Ramaswamy said to her,

she'll send your sons overseas so she can buy a bigger house.

Like to die.

So she could buy a bigger house.

Like the meanest things you could possibly say to someone, Vivek Ramaswamy was saying to her.

So I think Vivek,

you know, look, he had a moment before that first debate.

I think his personality has turned off everyone who's seen him speak.

I think Haley did well, but took a lot of incoming.

And it's not just about, you know, the three or four million people who watched the debate that night.

It's about how those attacks get replayed on TV shows the next day, on social media, what gets picked up in ads, what messages get carried forward.

And I think she took some tough shots that she's going to have to answer about some of the corruption allegations that he made.

DeSantis might have done better just by virtue of getting less incoming and kind of being out of the fray for more time, but it's tough to tell.

But he still has to be Ron DeSantis.

Yeah, he still looks like that.

Yeah, but then you look at him and you're just like, oh,

you got to do something with those arms.

But I will say, like, having, if you, like,

that, this, whatever, you watch that debate, and like, I actually know what Ron DeSantis was doing in that debate.

I know what Chris Christie was doing in that debate.

I don't, I know Nikki's, Nikki Haley pushed back against a bunch of attacks, but I, but she didn't make as clean an argument for candidacy as Ron DeSantis did, as much as Ron DeSantis has to do it using Ron DeSantis' voice.

Weirdly, your boy Chris Christie like took some really hawkish positions.

He was like, yes, I would send special forces into Gaza to rescue hostages.

Yes, I would go to war with China over Taiwan.

Like, DeSantis ducked to that question, and Christie's like, no, let me tell you about all the places I'm going to fucking attack.

Can I, I'm just like, I have a question for y'all because I trust Shell's judgment and opinions.

I kept thinking watching this debate, all right, Trump's not here because he doesn't need to talk to anyone but his base, and he can talk to them whenever he wants, and they look for his words.

But all these candidates here are trying in some way to talk to multiple audiences, whether it be donors or maybe moderate swing voters or whoever, but like

if these candidates on that stage last night know that they'll never be president,

who were they really talking to last night?

And what do they really want?

Knowing the end game is not going to be the White House for them.

I think that in their minds,

they have convinced themselves, because I think if you run for president, if you got the staff, you got the donors, you go through the whole thing, you're living your life on the road, you know, you have convinced yourself that there is a path.

Maybe an unlikely path, but like things happen.

Trump ends up in jail.

Trump drops dead.

Right.

Like this is the kind of things that...

That man's living to be 100.

I mean, I'm going to tell you right now, that kind of nasty doesn't die.

This is what they're thinking.

They're thinking, okay, if he's not there, if something happens to Donald Trump, then maybe I could go to this state and this state and I could get this constituency and I could do this and that and the other thing.

Like, I think that that's in their mind.

That's sad, though.

And then they're thinking to Dan's point that he's made, like, and if that fails, then maybe I'm set up for 2028.

I think they're all talking to different audiences, right?

Ron DeSantis, if Donald Trump were to go to prison tomorrow, Ron DeSantis would be the Republican nominee, and it wouldn't be close.

Really?

He is by far the second choice of most Trump voters.

Shut up.

By far.

It's not even close.

By far.

He can't do that.

That is a little Ron.

And if someone can't get.

Not Ronnie.

Yeah, he is.

We don't like him.

He's weird.

He's awkward.

He's an asshole to just enough of the right people for Republicans to be their nominee.

That is how it is.

Nikki Haley is positioning herself for a post-Trump Republican Party.

And the problem for her is she started this race as a non-Trump, but she started gaining support as the candidate of the anti-Trump faction.

So that has made her less popular and less viable of a leader in the Republican Party in a 2028 race.

Vivek Ramaswamy is talking to Trump directly.

He wants an audience of one.

And And it's unhinged.

Yeah, I have no evidence for this, but I would not be surprised to find out that Trump's campaign is encouraging him to stay in the race, encouraging him to do what he's doing, to just be a chaos agent there and defend Trump on stage.

Wow.

Because at the beginning of that clip we showed, Ramaswamy is trying to get in there to defend DeSantis for not saying Trump is unfit and attacked Chris Christie.

And Chris Christie is looking for a spot right up here.

He's either, yeah, he is looking.

He can't have money.

He is looking to the person who can provide a sixth chair up here.

I actually know, seriously, he's talking to the person who offers contributor contracts at MSNBC.

Yeah.

Yeah.

CNN prime time?

Pull up a chair, Chris.

Christie or leave it.

All right.

I'm going to go ahead and leave it.

I'm going to go ahead and leave it, John.

So that's funny.

Love it's on vacation, filling in.

It's Governor Chris Christie.

Let's get into it.

Screaming.

Our first segment is Bridgegate.

So the award for the biggest asshole of the night, as always, goes to Vivek Ramaswamy, who was finally stuffed into a locker by Chris Christie in what was certainly my favorite moment of the debate.

Here it is.

Okay, you say this, you do this.

You do this at every debate.

You go out on the stump and you say something.

All of us see it on video.

We confront you on the debate stage.

You say you didn't say it, and then you back away.

And I want to say

I'm not done yet.

Well, this is now look, this is an hour just made a steal.

You just made a speech of nonsense.

Let me tell you something.

This is the fourth debate, the fourth debate that you would be voted in the first 20 minutes as the most obnoxious blowhard in America.

So shut up for me.

Stop letting straight men run for office.

Love Love it.

You are our Chris Christie whisperer.

So obviously, we would like to hear more about what you thought about his performance there.

But on Vivek,

he's been trying to copy Trump.

He

got a little notoriety early.

There was some buzz around him.

Why do you think his shtick hasn't worked as well with Republican voters as Donald Trump's?

Well,

he just doesn't have it.

I mean,

Donald Trump,

we don't like talking about his strengths, but he has them.

And I think his great skill is that he's a bully you root for.

That is his great power.

Is it what?

He's a bully you root for.

And no American of any political persuasion wants to elect the villain from Ghostbusters.

And if you ever find yourself in a position where you sound like the villain from Ghostbusters,

you're losing.

It was the poster in the air for me.

Yeah.

Once you do that.

Absolutely.

You've got to go.

You're so shy of me.

Nothing good comes from that.

Here's another way to think about it.

One year ago, Vivek Ramaswamy was the guy begging to be interviewed on a midday Fox News program.

Yeah.

Here we are in December of 2023.

He has beaten the former vice president of the United States, the governors of North Dakota, Arkansas.

He is currently beating the former governor of New Jersey.

And I don't think he really wants to be president.

I don't think he got in to be president.

He got in to be famous.

We know his name.

Yeah.

Or sell anti-woke investment programs.

All the things.

MX, the really mean HOA president.

He has

exploited the worst elements of our political system to gain what he wants to help himself.

That was his plan in the beginning, and he has succeeded at that.

I think that was his plan.

I think then he flew a little too close to the sun.

He got to tell him that everyone.

Like, all day today, apparently, there's a story about this on Fox.

Like, they were shitting all over him on Fox.

All the Fox hosts were mad at him.

They were saying he's a clown.

Why did he do this?

Blah, blah, blah.

Like, I think he is in danger now of like ruining his future career that he aspired to by doing that.

People get in President of Rachel's races all the time knowing they're probably going to lose.

And they're in it.

They're just like, I'm going to do it.

I got a case to make.

I just want to be out there.

And then there's always one moment.

It could be like five minutes where they believe.

they might actually be president.

Yep.

And it fucks with their head for the rest of their life.

And that is the price he will pay for this.

That is correct.

All right, we'll leave it there.

When we come back, we'll talk to the mayor of San Diego, Todd Gloria.

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Hey, it's Kirsten Gillibrand here at the DSCC with a very important message.

Something big is taking shape.

Democrats are gaining in the polls.

We're winning special election after special election, and we are far from through.

But I need your help to keep the work going and flip the Senate seats to finally put a check on Trump.

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Donate now at dscc.org slash win.

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And joining us to tell us more about his administration, Todd Gloria.

Merigloria, welcome to Pot Safe America.

Hello, East County.

How are you guys doing?

When you won your election in 2020, you became the first ever person of color and member of the LGBTQ community to be elected to that office in a city in a part of the state that has a long history of electing Republicans.

Talk to me a little.

That is definitely something worth applauding.

People, thank you, guys.

People love Todd.

Talk a little bit about how you won that race and what advice you would give to other Democrats trying to break historical barriers all around the country.

Yeah, well, first off, thank you to a lot of the folks in this audience who didn't just help on that particular election, but for 20 plus years built the infrastructure to make that possible.

We were once Richard Nixon's lucky city

To elect the son of a maid and a gardener, the gay person of color, mayor of the city, took a tremendous amount of work.

I think about the people who sat in an apartment in North Park to figure out the maps for the first time we could do citizen redistricting in the early 1990s that created a district that was reasonably possible to elect an openly gay person.

I won that seat a generation later and put me on a path.

And to your question, I mean, first off, to any wannabe candidate who may be watching or listening to this, I mean, you got to do the two things your mom told you not to do:

knock on strangers' doors and ask for strangers for money, right?

But really and truly, I mean, for someone like myself, it's to make sure that the vast majority of the eighth largest city in this country think that someone who may be significantly different from them actually cares about the same things as them.

You know, I'm a tenant in this city, and the housing is too damn expensive, and we need to make it easier for working people to afford to live in San Diego.

That you can be a person of color, but you understand that while we call out for police reform, we also need to keep people safe.

And we have to have public safety that is responsive and picks up your calls when you call 911.

And importantly, that there's too many damn potholes, and we have to fill them and fix the streets.

And if that can include a bike lane and some pedestrian facilities, that's fine.

But long story short, there are a lot of people that spend a lot of time through citizen redistricting, through runoff elections, through the opportunities to allow for someone like me to be able to sit in this role is something I don't forget on any day of the week, and I appreciate this opportunity.

Thank you all for the chance to lead my hometown.

You brought up affordable housing.

I know it's a centerpiece of why you ran.

It's a centerpiece of what you've been trying to accomplish.

Talk a little bit about what your plan is to deal with housing.

It's something we hear about, obviously, everywhere we go in California, but frankly, across the country these days.

Well, I'm glad you say that because it's not just a California thing.

You know, one of the best parts of my job is I get to be involved in the U.S.

Conference of Mayors, an extraordinary organization, non-partisan.

We just come together frequently to talk about issues.

And it's striking to me that across this country, this is a common concern.

There are homeless people all throughout this country, not just in big urban cities on the coast where the weather is good.

And with regard to housing,

I know this personally.

I'm a tenant.

I'm the mayor of the city, but I don't own a home in my city.

It's not because I don't want to, but it's because the cost of entry is so ridiculous.

And you all pay me plenty.

I'm not complaining about my salary, but I am complaining about the fact that we are simply not building enough housing.

So Dan, the answer to your question is we must build more homes, period.

Full stop.

Now.

Please call my office in the morning.

We can work on that.

So how do you do that?

Well, a number of things.

Number one is you have to zone for it.

And I think one of my challenges is that I have a city and a city council that's willing to zone for this stuff.

I heard someone say ADUs, granny flats, casitas, whatever your favorite term is.

That's a form of housing that we don't invest in.

There's no taxpayer money in it, but it does represent new housing that is reasonably attainable.

That doesn't exclude people who make too much for low-income housing, but can't afford the luxury stuff that we build aplenty.

So you have to zone for this.

You have to permit for this.

I heard the comment about permits.

And I would say that you know one of the things that I've been a part of is making sure that we are actually staffing the government correctly.

Dan, when I I took over as mayor three years ago, 20% of the positions in our permit department were vacant.

No one was working there.

So if you were calling about your permit, you had a one-in-five chance that no one was ever going to return your call.

So guess what?

You have to pay your public employees enough to actually want to do the job.

It's pretty simple.

So you do the permitting, you do the zoning, you do the permitting so that you actually get a permit in a reasonable amount of time.

Quick story.

In my state of the city address this year, I've signed an executive order saying that we would permit 100% affordable housing projects in 30 days

or less.

Shout out to our city employees.

They're doing it in 12 days, Dan.

They're doing it.

It's possible.

Zoning permits, and then we have to have folks step up and move forward.

It does necessary require change in neighborhoods, and that's really challenging.

I was with a group of folks this morning that aren't very happy about that.

But the answer is, is that we can't just get ours and then pull up the drawbridge and say, good luck to you.

We have to leave the door of opportunity open for folks who are willing to work hard.

And that's where my mind is at, as Mayor.

So people who advocate for more affordable housing, for building, for zoning, run into obstacles all across the place.

The San Diego City Council rejected your wide-ranging housing plan recently.

What happens now?

Why do they reject it?

What happens now?

What are you going to do to try to get it through?

Well, they did reject it, but watch this space because next week they're going to pass it.

We've got got to do this the council knows that we had an honest disagreement about a couple of essentially three technical issues the challenge with politics particularly you know local government is that you know we have to have open meetings our work is done out in the open and when people are grumpy or have a bad day or just have an honest disagreement that happens in front of everyone's

eyes and so we will bring that back and we'll get it done but you know ultimately what we have is a council to a person that understands we have to build more housing And while we can quibble about small things like inclusionary zoning offset requirements and like facilities, at the end of the day, no one on that council is unaware of the fact that we must build more homes.

And I believe when we bring this before the council next week, it'll pass fun fact.

We call it our housing action package 2.0.

Because 1.0 was passed.

It has been implemented 2.0.

And you better believe there will be a 3.0 and a 4.0 until we get a functional housing economy in the city where working people who want to be here can actually find a place they can afford.

And importantly, buy.

Because what I'm really concerned about is too many folks maybe be able to find a way to rent, but damn, they can't find a place to buy.

And the inability to build wealth, raise a family, find a future for themselves is one of the ways that cities like mine will not win the future.

This is why I am so animated about making sure that we can build housing that people can afford.

One of the narratives.

One of the narratives about California that the right-wing media likes to push is to talk about the homelessness crisis in the state.

And the way it's always talked about is that no one is trying to do anything about it.

I know it's something that you ran on, something you worked on.

Talk about what you've been doing to alleviate homelessness in

San Diego.

Yeah.

Well, let me say very clearly that homelessness is the most complex problem for which people crave a simple solution, and there isn't one.

You might get charlatans that try and suggest that there are.

We have former president running around talking about concentration camps out in the wilderness for people.

That is not going to work.

These people are not criminal.

They're poor.

They're sick.

They need help.

And they are still citizens in our government, in our community.

They can't be incarcerated for simply being poor.

What we're doing is exactly right.

Exactly.

What we're doing as a city is an all-hands-on-deck approach.

So we talk a lot about housing because housing is what ends homelessness, but building housing is not quick, even when you expedite stuff, right?

And we have people who have urgent needs today.

So in the last three years, we have grown our shelter capacity in the city of San Diego by by over 70 percent.

We're diversifying our portfolio to have congregate, non-congregate, senior only, women only, LGBTQ youth.

We've stood up our first safe sleeping sites which is sanctioned outdoor encampments.

Dean I want to tell you this is not something personally I'm very comfortable with.

I feel like in an organized society you live indoors.

But what I know is this form of shelter options is actually really attractive to this population.

And where we're often told no for some other options, folks are saying yes to this option.

And the best part about that is that when they come into these safe sleeping sites, we provide the wraparound services that address the underlying causes of their homelessness and get them on their way to permanent housing that ends their homelessness.

Long story short, outreach, shelter, housing, that's how you do it.

And I recognize that it is fun to demonize cities.

They make it about democratic cities.

They make it about coastal cities.

They make it about cities with great weather.

But the fact of the matter is every city is dealing with this.

And while it's fun to say that no one's doing anything, I'm the chair of the California Big City Mayors Coalition, the biggest 13 cities in the state of California.

All of us are working aggressively on this issue.

None of us have found the perfect solution, but all of us, including my city, are getting thousands of people off the streets every single year.

And that's something that's to be applauded.

And shout out to every homeless shelter worker, outreach worker.

Those people do incredible work, and they don't get nearly enough thanks.

or pay because most of these people are minimum wage workers

this problem would be infinitely worse without their hard work.

All of them are doing that work.

We're doing that work.

They get thousands of people off the streets.

But, Dan, I will tell you that last year in the city of San Diego, for every 10 people we get off the streets, 13 become homeless.

Our growing housing crisis in terms of affordability means that this year, that number is for every 10 I get off the streets, 16 become homeless.

We've got to build more housing that is affordable for everybody, working, middle, and low-income folks.

How has the local community reacted to your efforts and in particular the safe sleeping encampments?

That's a great question because it's a present concern.

I got a call from the in-laws the other day because we're proposing a shelter near them.

And

we'll see if I get invited to Christmas.

We'll find out.

Dan, here's what I have to tell you, and I really want to appreciate the chance to share this with your audience, particularly the San Diegans who are here.

When we proposed our first safe sleeping site at the corner of 20th and B at an old city operations yard, it's in the neighborhood of Golden Golden Hill, great neighborhood.

I represented on the city council.

There were extreme concerns from that community.

We opened the shelter, and I'm here to tell you that for three, four months into operation, there are no concerns.

It is operating well.

OLOT, our second one, it's in Balboa Park, our city's crown jewel.

You know Central Park, you know the Smithsonian.

They've got nothing on Balboa Park.

It is better than both of those places.

That, when OLOT was proposed, the institutions were also very, very concerned.

It's now operating, it is doing well.

The concerns are not there.

And what has happened is the folks who were previously encamped in Balbo Park or in Golden Hill are not there anymore.

They're inside safe.

They're getting the services and they're getting on their pathway to getting forward to permanent housing.

We have to do more of that.

We have to do it over and over again until there's no one that's living on our sidewalks.

We are too wealthy, a city, a state, and nation to have people living in filth on our sidewalks, in our parks, in the public right-of-way.

One of the issues that voters all across the country are talking about, pollsters say it is, they're telling pollsters it's a top concern right below inflation and immigration, is crime.

What are you hearing from your constituents about crime and what do they want you to do about it?

There are a lot of concerns.

San Diego showed a 7% reduction in violent crime in the last year.

I'm very proud of our police department and everyone working in the effort of both preventing crime and responding to it.

But when I tell that to San Diegans, I recognize a lot of them don't believe it.

And it's largely, I think, because of the homelessness crisis.

While being homeless is not a crime, it does convey a level of disorder that is concerning to people.

And I'm here to say that we have to be very clear as progressives, as Democrats, as mayors, to say very simply that we will not lawlessness will not rule the day in our cities.

If you're a criminal, that there will be consequences.

I think there's a lot of concerns about whether or not there's consequences for significant crimes and even for modest ones.

Organized retail theft is a problem.

You want to go to Target and get a bottle of shampoo without having to call somebody to come get it for you.

That is not too much to ask in this country.

And that's not where we're at today.

And I think there's a lot of reasons why that's happening.

Some of it's about policy.

Some of it's about the way those retailers operate.

But all together, we have to do more about this.

And that means we have to fully fund our police department.

We have to make sure that there are consequences for illegal behavior.

And yes, we have to make sure that we work on the prevention side and on the treatment side on the back end.

But comprehensively, we have to own this issue.

I refuse to let a party that allows weapons of war and illegal guns into our neighborhoods claim that they are anti-crime.

They are not anti-crime.

We are anti-crime.

We will keep Americans safe.

So,

the mayor has very graciously agreed to play a game with us a little later in the show.

It's a ridiculous game,

so I apologize in advance.

But

please give it, he'll be back in a little bit, but first, please give it up for your mayor.

When we come back, more news.

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All right, guys, let's talk about the only two candidates who actually have a chance of winning the 2024 election, at least as of right now, Joe Biden and Donald Trump.

So the president said at a fundraiser this week that, quote, if Trump wasn't running, I'm not sure I'd be running.

When asked the next day if he believed any other Democrats could beat Trump, Biden said, quote, probably 50 of them.

I'm not the only one who could defeat him, but I will defeat him.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump participated in a town hall hosted by Sean Hannity, who tried to give Trump a chance to deny reports that he intends to rule like a dictator if he wins.

Let's see what happened.

But I want to be very, very clear on this.

To be clear, do you in any way have any plans whatsoever, if re-elected president, to abuse power, to break the law?

to use the government to go after people?

You mean like they're using right now?

You are promising America tonight you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody.

Except for day one.

Except for one.

He's going crazy.

Except for day one.

Meaning, I want to close the border and I want to drill.

That's not

real.

That's not.

Oh, no.

That's not retribution.

All right, it's not retribution.

Before you just,

they'd never seen stools before.

They'd never sat on them before.

They don't know how to sit in stools.

Their legs were crazy.

To be fair, stools are scary.

Stools are very scary.

Sam,

what did you make of that answer?

Was it a joke?

Was it a troll?

Was it a refusal to state clearly that

he would suspend the Constitution?

This is the thing about Donald Trump, and we should know this by now, you know, from the team that brought you the almost coup.

Like, Donald Trump, Trump walks like a joke, and he talks like a joke, and he quacks like a joke.

But once he's there, it's not a joke.

Yeah.

It's a joke till it's not.

And he said it.

He said it.

And I just feel like:

who's fooled by this at this point?

We know what he did.

It was not a joke when he literally tried to kick out every trans person in the military.

Remember that?

It was not a joke when he tried to block residents from seven Muslim countries.

It was not a joke when he put kids in cages.

It's not a joke.

And so, like, just because it's funny doesn't mean it's a joke.

Donald Trump is funny.

He is not a joke.

Yeah.

He's not.

He's not.

So

Biden's campaign jumped all over this right away.

They responded by saying, Donald Trump has been telling us exactly what he'll do

if he's re-elected.

And tonight.

He would have bought Greenland if he could.

What's that?

Remember that, Greenland?

He was like, I want to buy Greenland.

If he could have done it, he would have.

He forgot about Greenland.

Remember that?

Yeah.

Well, I mean, sorry, broken conflict.

Anyway.

So

Greenland.

He's been telling us exactly what he'll do if he's re-elected.

And tonight, he said he'll be a dictator on day one.

Americans should believe him.

Dan, what do you think about the Biden campaign's decision to hit back on this?

Do the Biden folks want this fight?

How would you talk about it if you were them?

I think the Biden folks want to wake up every single day, and their main goal is to remind people of what Donald Trump in the White House is like.

Because all the polling shows that a significant percentage of the population has forgotten that fact.

And because,

you know, Biden always says, don't don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative.

Right now, people are comparing Joe Biden to the almighty.

It's an up or down referendum on whether they are happy with the state of affairs in this country.

Not a choice between a

good, decent person who has done a really good job under tough circumstances and

a narcissistic clown who ran this country in the ground and wants to get in office so we can take away your health care, take away your reproductive freedom, and do a whole bunch of other really terrible shit.

And so I think that is the right choice.

The dictator

comments from Trump is a trap.

Like you and we, everyone, we've all worked for candidates.

We can all sort of see the strings behind the puppet here and what happened, which is everyone knew this question was coming.

I'm sure Hannity told them it was coming.

Definitely told him.

And so

they told the Trump campaign advisor, the Trump campaign advisor said, The way to do this is to say you're going to abuse authority for really popular things like securing the border and making gas cheaper, which is what drill, drill, baby, drill is not actually for, but that's what it means to some segment of people.

And so the trap here is

strength is, so the way I would talk about this fellows by committee is we have to recognize that strength is the vector upon which American politics is decided.

Right?

The candidate who wins in the polling as the stronger leader almost always wins the election.

Up and down the ballot.

And right now, Donald Trump has an 11-point advantage over Biden on strong leader.

In 2020, Biden had a four-point advantage.

And

if the way we talk about this is Donald Trump's going to come in, he's going to abuse authority, he's going to do all these things, that communicates strength to some segment of voters.

Not us, not the Chris Christie fans out there, but a segment of voters.

And in a world in which, you know, Bill Clinton once said, when people are uncertain and they feel anxiety, they would rather choose strong and wrong than weak and right.

And that is the most trenchant analysis of how Donald Trump has come to power in the United States is that right there.

And so when we talk about Donald Trump, we cannot amplify strength.

We have to explain that his authoritarian impulses, the fact that he's a bully, comes not from strength, but from weakness.

That he is insecure.

That he is a coward, that he bows down to dictators.

He takes his marching orders from CEOs.

When times get tough, he hides behind his Twitter account or his truth social account these days and AIDS.

That's who he is.

So I think that's part of what we talked about.

Two,

when we talk about how Trump would abuse power, we have to make it a matter in people's lives, right?

If it is just about how he's going to, in the esoterically weaponize government to attack his opponents, it has to be about how it really affects people.

Because, and this is the third thing we have to be very careful of, is we all say that Donald Trump is going to destroy democracy, is going to light it on fire.

And that is an absolutely true statement.

But for the vast majority, for a significant portion of the American populace, when we say that, we are talking about the fact that what Donald Trump is going to do is he's going to upend the political system that many of them feel is corrupt and not serving their interests.

And so that's why you have to make it a matter to people, right?

It can't just be about that Donald Trump's going to destroy democracy because that makes us the defenders of the status quo.

It's going to have to be what him destroying democracy does affects you.

And so there are a couple of ways to do that.

One is to explain that Donald Trump is, he is going to abuse power to help himself and his rich friends and not you.

He's going to be so obsessed with relitigating the 2020 election, he's not going to help you lower your costs, raise your wages, make your health care more affordable, make your air cleaner, your water cleaner, or any of those things.

And the other way is that Donald Trump supports a extreme, unpopular agenda that could not pass Congress.

Right.

So he's going to use every lever of power in the federal government.

He will violate every norm to put that agenda into place, which is what he basically said in this interview.

So what is he going to do?

If he can't get Congress to pass a federal abortion ban, he's going to use the federal government to put a de facto federal abortion ban in place.

If he can't repeal the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act, he is going to use the federal government to allow people to pollute our air and water.

And even if he can't get the Congress to repeal the Affordable Care Act, he is going to make it almost impossible to get to access affordable quality care in this country.

It's going to affect you.

He cares so much about himself, he's not going to help you.

Yeah.

I do think, I mean, the challenge is talking about Donald Trump attacking democracy and talking about defending democracy.

It can be a bit of an esoteric topic.

And you say, what does democracy mean?

I think if you ask people, like, do you want to live in a dictatorship?

The percentage that says yes, probably higher than we'd like.

But also,

big, huge majority would say no.

And sure enough, like there was a report

about this whole dictatorship thing where Trump's campaign apparently is getting a little nervous about this, and they don't want him to be called a dictator.

And so they like called up all their allies on Capitol Hill, and they were like, you have to push back on the whole dictator stuff.

And we've been talking about the Heritage Foundation.

They're doing this project 2025, where basically they're laying out all of what Trump's plans are going to be in the White House and how he's going to get rid of the civil service and all the non-political employees and just stack the whole government with Trump loyalists.

And apparently Trump's campaign manager called them and yelled at them and was like, do not report on your plans because if you tell people he's going to abuse power and do all this shit, we're not too happy about that.

Like, we don't think it's going to help us in a general election.

So they are worried about it, but you're right that like when we talk about it, every time you talk about it, you have to connect it to how it could affect people's lives.

And I do think like living in a dictatorship is affecting people's lives directly, but all the other things he's gonna do are also affecting people's lives directly.

And by the way, that's why I thought it was smart that he turned it to drilling and closing the border because he was like, oh, they're calling me a dictator.

I'm a dictator because I just want to control immigration and

I want to make sure that

we're energy independent.

That's what being a dictator is.

Sure, I'm a dictator.

But I think laying out how bad of a dictator Trump would be is not enough.

And I feel like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have a number of opportunities to showcase what they're doing for actual American people.

And I'm like, I want to hear it more.

I want to hear it more.

This week, they just forgave how many more billions of dollars of student debt?

How many more billions?

I forget the exact number, but a lot.

Eight.

There you go.

Just a few weeks ago, Papa Joe was out there with striking auto workers in solidarity for higher wages.

Just this week,

the Biden White House is talking about seizing drug company patents to lower drug prices.

Sing it from the rooftops.

And also abortion.

I just like

it will never be enough to tell people how bad Donald Trump is because everyone already knows and they still voted for him.

And I don't know what it takes for Joe Biden and his crew to really glom onto a strong affirmative message.

What does it take?

I mean, yeah, you're right, but also it's really hard to get it covered, especially when you have the showman on one side, you have this primary, fake primary happening on the other side.

It's a crowded space, but you're right.

I mean, if what people knew about what he'd done, I do think they would like it.

Yeah.

The challenge is elections are always about the future and not the past, and they're always about a choice.

Except when you have your student loans forgiven.

I don't know.

It's the future.

It's the future.

Right.

But if you're not, if you're someone who hasn't had your student loans forgiven, right, then and you hear that other people have, and you're like, where the hell are my student loans?

Then you're going to go into the ballot box and you're going to say, all right, I have a choice between two candidates.

And what the Biden campaign used to do is say, look, we have been fighting.

to relieve your student loans.

We did it for some people.

You put us back in office.

We're going to do more.

What they're going to do is everything we've done to

forgive student loans, they're going to undo it.

Everything we did to make prescription drugs cost lower, they're going to undo it.

They've promised that they're going to undo it.

So you can vote for us and we're going to keep fighting to help people just like you, even though we haven't done enough yet.

We've had a down payment on it.

We're going to keep fighting.

And if you do that, we're going to go back and they're going to undo everything that we did.

They're going to take away your health care.

They're going to make sure there's a nationwide abortion ban, right?

So I just feel like everything has to be the choice and it has to be like what's going to happen, not just what has happened.

Yeah.

I think.

Tommy Axios is reporting that Trump wants a cabinet and White House full of people who have demonstrated a commitment to quote stretch legal and governance boundaries.

Great way of putting it.

Cool.

And he and his team are already floating some names.

Stephen Miller for Attorney General.

Steve Bannon for chief of staff.

Cash Patel for CIA.

And apparently, Melania Trump's pick for VP, Tucker Carlson.

Now,

Tommy, do you think Democrats can and should make an issue out of who might serve in a second Trump administration?

Or is this just fodder for all of us here and they should just stick to Trump himself?

I mean, the challenge, right, is he hasn't officially named these people, so they could deny it or say, what are you talking about?

You're being hysterical.

But let's play it out

and

talk about how you might make these people the main character.

Because Republicans are very good at making fringe characters the main character, right?

Yeah.

We spent years at the Obama White House watching Fox News demagogue random people we worked with

in the EEOB or whatever.

So Steve Bannon and Cash Patel.

You guys probably might might not know who Cash Patel is.

He's this guy who worked for Devin Nunes.

He was installed in various national security jobs.

He was on Steve Bannon's podcast recently, and they were talking about how they are going to go after judges, lawyers, members of the media, and prosecute them for, I guess, accurately reporting that Joe Biden won the 2020 election.

Like this is literally the conversation they had, and they're bragging about it.

They're boasting about it.

Like this is the message they want to put out there: this like vindictive, you know, we are going to punish the people you hate message.

I don't think folks will like that.

I think that's something that's worth talking about.

I think the idea of Tucker Carlson as vice president, like, it's just like so manifestly unserious.

This is a man who got fired by Fox News.

I don't think people will like that outside of like a small sliver of a MAGA base.

So, I do think you can make these personnel part of a broader story about the extremism of a second Trump term and how much worse it could be.

But it will take some serious education.

And it will take like a media apparatus like a Fox News to really educate people about who these folks are first and then why they should care.

Yeah.

Love it.

Congrats, you get the Joe Biden question.

His two comments about running got a lot of coverage.

Do you think he said anything new there?

And

what is his best answer to that question about other Democrats beating Trump, aside from just saying that there are 50?

So

I found this whole thing very silly and stupid.

I understand why it got pulled out and kind of turned into a story, but really he's just saying in a slightly different way what he said for literally years since before 2020, which is he was motivated to run in 2020 because he genuinely believed that Donald Trump

presented such a danger and that he believed he was the right person, despite the objections of a lot of people in the media a lot of people in the democratic establishment a lot of people that doubted that joe biden was the right figure joe biden said no i understand i'm going to fight for the soulless country i believe i'm the right person and he wins the nomination and he wins the presidency uh and he he does if nothing else like save the country from donald trump he does that and a lot of people said he couldn't and he did it uh

we end up in this situation where you know he says he's going to pass the torch and we get closer and closer and he decides no he's going to run again why well because the same logic that applied in 2020 applied now.

He looked out and he thought, given the threat that the Republicans pose, given the threat that Donald Trump poses, the same logic applies.

And so he's being honest.

What he's saying is, I am running because I believe Donald Trump is this threat.

And

if he wasn't in the race, I might not do it because I'm a very old fucking man.

I'm a very old man, and I'm running for president, and I'm a little too old than I should be, but I'm the best you've got, and I'm going to fucking win.

And that's what he's saying.

Now,

when he says other people could also defeat Donald Trump, fine.

When he's saying he would stay in the race otherwise, fine.

I just, ultimately, this is a news cycle in the same way that the fake Republican debate is a news cycle because we're marching towards Trump versus Biden and reporters are a little bit bored.

Yeah, but I think this is practice for a general.

And I think if Joe Biden walked into this general arguing logic and not Mojo, he's in trouble.

And I think that that whole shtick of, well, 50 other people could do it,

the first thing I respond with is, well, then why not them?

You can't do that.

I don't know.

I don't like it.

I don't think it's good.

And I think that, like, if I were advising Joe Biden, I'd say, I'm running again because I have the most experience.

I'm a proven leader.

I've done all these things and I want to do more.

What do you say?

That's exactly what he said.

But then just say that.

Don't say.

Don't say there are 50 other guys.

Who are the 50?

Don't say are the 50 other guys?

Well, I don't know.

Do we name them?

No, I don't think there are 50.

I think it's Josh Shapiro.

You love that guy.

I love that guy.

Chris Christie.

A Jew that convince a highway in two weeks.

Sign me up.

I just feel like given the issues that already exist around the way voters think about his age and fitness for office,

everything you say from now until next November should be aware of that.

Yeah.

And saying there's 50 other guys ain't the way, buddy.

It's not the way.

No,

the Times did a longer story on this, and they interviewed Ron Klain, Biden's last chief of staff, and they asked him, and he was like,

yeah, maybe there are other Democrats in the country that could do it, but Joe Biden's the only person who has beaten Donald Trump.

And so I think he can't speak again.

I'm like, yeah, that's the answer.

That's the right thing.

Say that.

There are 50 other Democrats.

Yes.

I think that, look, there's a certain mode Joe Biden has when he's walking out of a room while people are shouting and the door is about to close.

And that's when he tries stuff.

That's when he gets loose.

That's when he does his material.

That's when he tests out his road stuff.

And like, sometimes it plays and sometimes it doesn't.

As the door closes, closes, he'll say something like, God, love him.

Door.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Always the last question that gets you.

The whole thing is so stupid.

So stupid.

It's so fucking dumb.

Because as I would point out, this was the exact thing that Joe Biden said in 2019 when he decided to run.

And I definitely think he could have answered the cleanup of the question better by simply saying, yes, there are other people who can beat him, but I think I give us the best chance.

Full stop.

Yeah.

That's it.

But it doesn't matter.

Joe Biden is going to be the nominee.

And all of these questions are entirely theoretical and unanswerable.

Because either Joe Biden wins and he has proven that

he's the one who gave us the best chance to beat Trump, or he loses and we'll never know if someone else could have done better.

That is the thing.

Like, that is just...

Dean Phillips erasure.

Another friend of the pod.

I don't know that he likes you guys.

No, I don't.

But

one way to do that.

He's approaching the show with Chris Christie.

Yeah.

But

I do think that, like,

it's

there are there are certain theoretical questions that seem to kind of kind of excite political journalism right now.

And I do think it's like the theoretical questions around Biden and what would happen if he wasn't running are more interesting than the fact that

Trump and his associates are basically saying they're going to prosecute journalists.

And I do think at a certain point, I wish that theoretical possibility would be as exciting.

And maybe it will be.

The amount of news that came out of that comment from Joe Biden is a massive indictment of just how bored the press corps is right now.

Yeah.

It is.

And also what we're going to face for a year.

Plus.

Plus.

Yeah.

But to Lovett's point, there are real things happening that are more consequence for the future than Joe Biden's decision-making process on a decision he has already made in a race in which the primary deadlines have passed for most of the states.

So it's like, what are we doing?

Yeah.

I just, I just feel like, though, and I know I'm being a dead horse, every bit of bad tape is an attack ad.

Every bit of bad tape.

Just like stop doing that, Joe.

Well, he can't.

He's been doing it for 50 fucking years.

I know, I know.

But you know what?

I still hold out hope.

He's 81 years old, and he's doing his best.

Well, and I think to like Lovett's point about trying things out, like, I really do think that all of these comments are about sort of him, he's facing all of this, like, why are you doing this again?

You're very old, blah, blah, blah.

He does have a rationale, like you can tell, is that

the man genuinely believe, he is genuinely scared of a second Trump term.

He thinks that democracy is at stake.

I do not doubt that at all.

And I'm sure he has weighed in his mind, yes, maybe I'm not the one to do it, but also, is there someone else who can do it?

I've already beaten Donald Trump, and I feel so strongly about this.

And so, and I feel so strongly about like protecting the country and saving democracy that even knowing all the risks, I feel like I should do this.

And by the way, that is exactly what he was saying when he made the point that they took out of context and is what he will be saying for the rest of these races.

And at some point, and at some point.

And at some point, look, do I wish Joe Biden were younger?

I wish it every morning.

But at some point,

but at some point, look, do I want Joe Biden to be a little better on message?

Sure.

Another thing I wish for every morning, about as likely as him getting younger.

But some of this isn't Joe Biden's problem.

It's our problem.

And I do think that once we get to the point, if we, assuming we are heading towards this, when it is Joe Biden versus Donald Trump, the time for questions about should Joe Biden have run, is he the right person?

All that stuff.

Our job must be to do everything we can to make that fall away and make it a focus on the actual threat Donald Trump poses and the actual choice, as John pointed out.

That's our job.

That is exactly right.

Look, Joe Biden is making a very big bet that he can overcome the very serious and legitimate, I think, think, concerns about his age with a large swath of the electorate.

He absolutely can.

But we also have to recognize that there is no person walking this planet that we were to, if Joe Biden were to say, I'm not running, there's no primary, we just lay hands on that person and we say, this person is a Democratic nominee.

Okay, I didn't, that was not on my bingo card.

Dean Phillips' wife is here, right?

But no matter who we pick, has a very

real possibility of losing to Donald Trump.

We live in a polarized country with an electoral college that skews Republican.

And so it doesn't matter if it's Joe Biden, Josh Shapiro, Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, there's a chance in that race Donald Trump could win.

And so

there's no option that means no anxiety for 2024.

It means no work for 2024.

And so that is the reality in which we live.

All I'm saying is, and I'm going to leave it here, I promise.

All I'm saying is, next time Joe gets asked a question like that, maybe Joe just says, I'm the only one who's ever beaten Donald Trump, and I'm the only one who can do it again.

How about that?

How about that?

Well,

he's a frequent listener.

I'm sure he's going to hear this.

So we're good.

When we come back, they print it out for him.

Wow.

And we push our interview requests back another week.

When we come back, it's time for a game.

And we're back.

Now, we wanted to play

a game with all of you in this holiday season.

But before we do, it is the first night of Hanukkah.

Producer Kira is going to come on out.

Kira.

We have

a menorah, a Hanukkia.

All right, here we go.

First name of Hanukkah.

Take us away.

All right.

And please join in if you know the words.

Shelchanuka.

My mom is gay on the show.

As our ancestors did all those years ago, we pressed the button

on the target menorah

and light the first candle.

We did it.

Here, everybody.

All right.

All right, everybody.

The holiday season is upon us, and with it brings the perfect synergy of gay and straight culture.

Cutting down a tree with an axe, and then decorating it with twinkling lights.

Braving the ice and snow, just sing three-part harmonies outside an old folks' home.

The fact that French Santa is called Papa Noel.

I don't get that one.

So we thought it would be a perfect opportunity to bring back a beloved Pon Save America game, gays versus straight, this time for a very gays versus straight holiday edition.

First up, we have our straights.

You know them.

You love them.

john tommy and dan my sweet boys are gonna go over here

uh sam might go over there please sam will be joined by the mayor please case for the win

and

we would love where's pundit gonna go

and uh we would love if somebody can we bring the lights up for a second And we would love if somebody from the audience whose sexual orientation is anything other than crate and barrel registry

that's that's anything less straight than that does count.

Olivia is out there.

There's someone right up here, Olivia, if you want right there.

And you better be gay, gay.

Come on up.

Come on up.

For real, gay.

Nice.

I like the bells.

Hi.

Hi.

We got a check.

We got a check.

Hi, what's your name?

Um, bisexual.

No, no.

Sure.

What a beautiful name.

Is that

Eastern European?

You have to prove it?

You have to prove it.

You can say your name.

Wait, you give you.

No, you can give any.

No, I'm saying, you can just, what's your name?

Oh, my name is Haley.

Haley, great.

Haley, we have a test for you.

Okay.

So prove your queerness.

Are you ready?

Yeah, I'm ready.

Name two Troy Yevon songs.

Oh, Rush and.

Beep.

Yeah, that's true.

That beep was hard.

What did I listen to?

What did you listen to in middle school?

That's bisexual enough.

We're good.

Okay, thank you.

All right.

We're going to count it.

Here's how the game works.

Bay is only like 50% gay, right?

So do I get 50% of that answer?

I can't jump into that one.

That's for y'all.

The gay team will answer the straightest Christmas questions we can muster, and the straight team will naturally queen out with some gay questions.

All right.

Are you ready?

The dog is gay.

Come on over.

Come on, sweetie.

We got you.

She's definitely gay.

Woo!

All right.

Oh, my God.

I'm going to start with the gays.

It's that easy.

Time for the first question for the gays.

This season, a Christmas song hit number one on the Billboard 100 65 years after its release in 1965.

The longest journey for a song to become a number one hit.

What is the song?

Haley?

Rocking around the Christmas tree.

You got it.

Yes.

Barbara Lee.

Brenda Lee.

All right, boys.

My beige stallions.

Sorry.

I regretted it.

I just got to try stuff.

Brenda Lee's rocking around the Christmas tree dethroned.

What extremely gay Christmas song from the top of the Billboard holiday chart this year?

Oh.

Mariah Carrie.

Yep.

you got it.

You got it.

All right, gays.

And bisexual.

Mayor gay.

Noted bisexual.

I see you.

Gays and they're.

That's just, it's, that's the, I like, I like that one.

Uh,

this year, Shudder released a gay slasher film in which the wait, this year, boys, this year, Shudder released a gay slasher film in which the protagonist meets an evil angel in a play on a classic Christmas movie set in Bedford Falls, New York.

What is this queer ass parody called?

I'm sorry.

There's a parody gay film.

All right.

I'll give you an old film.

All right.

Play on It's a Wonderful Life.

You're so close to play on It's a Wonderful Life.

It's a wonderful life.

Wonderful life.

So, oh,

try a rhyme.

Oh, it's a knife.

Yes.

Tommy, you got it.

Oh, thank you.

Tommy.

Good job.

We got a lot of help there.

We got a lot of help from Love It.

It's a wonderful knife.

Astrace too.

It's a wonderful knife.

Never heard of it.

Straight culture.

All right.

Gays and bys and days.

Thank you.

And the dog.

And the dog.

What goat-like anthropomorphic beast from European folklore reportedly assists St.

Nicholas each December by beating naughty children with a birch rod?

The mayor's.

Oh.

You know this.

Haley, you know this.

Is it,

what's the one in the line, line, the witch, and the wardrobe?

No, Krumpus.

Aslan,

say

Krumpus, Crumpus.

Crumpus, yes.

What is my?

In the 2020 lesbian Christmas movie Happiest Season, Kristen Stewart's planned proposal for Mackenzie Davis

is thrown for a loot by what beloved bisexual actress?

That's right.

I'll give you a hint.

She was on Parks and Rec.

They get a lot of hints.

Yeah, they do get a lot of hints.

They're straight, and this is America.

Wow.

Wow.

I think it's only fair for the next question.

Y'all are allowed to just tell us the answer.

Parks and Wreck.

Deadpan.

Not an Esplanade, but a...

Aubrey Plaza.

Correct.

There we go.

I didn't know Aubrey Plaza.

Famous Delaware in Aubrey Plaza.

If you know it, whisper loud.

There is nothing gayer to my gay team than making a cake that looks like something else what is a bouche noel and what does it look like i may have said it wrong shut up jewish

bouche noel

bouche noel

shut up

a log it looks like a log

yeah thank you That was great for British bait chips.

Cher went number one with a single off her brand new Christmas album titled Simply Christmas, meaning she has gone number one with at least one billboard chart in seven decades.

Number one in seven fucking decades.

That's cool.

Cher's cool.

What is the name of this most recent song?

I'm going to read you a few options.

Okay.

Perfect.

A DJ play a Christmas song.

B, I like Christmas.

C, drop top sleigh ride with Taiga.

Or D, Christmas.

D.

D.

I know which one it is.

D?

It's Christmas.

What do you got?

Yeah.

D.

D.

No.

No.

A.

It is A.

DJ Playing Christmas.

It's a horrible song, and you're allowed to go.

Your instincts are gay.

In the 2000 Jim Carrey film, The Grinch, Who Stole Christmas, I said that wrong.

Listen.

Wow.

Oh, my God.

Listen a little bit.

Crushing this.

Crushing this game.

Here Here we go.

Here we go.

It's great to be in Phoenix.

All right.

The Grinch experiences a connection with who woman.

That's actually correct.

That one just sounds weird.

Martha Mae Juvier.

She is played by what incredible character actress?

This is not a game where you shout out things you know.

Yes, it is.

What is it?

It's Christine Boransky.

It is Christine Boransky.

That was a straight question?

I don't know what happened to the show.

It was Christine Boransky.

That was a good idea.

They're all Christians.

They're all gay questions.

They're all gay questions now.

The future liberals want.

Yeah, this is

the future liberals one.

Which Christmas song features the lyric, Don We Now Our Gay Apparel?

We wish you

a lot of people.

Oh, take the halls.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

War on Christmas right there.

Jesus Christ.

Nothing worse strength than confident but wrong.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

Reminds me, for whatever reason, of confident or wrong reminds me of strength plus experience equals change.

Remember that?

Hillary Clinton slogan from back in the day?

Deep cut.

So good.

Strength plus experience equals change.

Change divided by strength plus experience equals one.

Strength minus change equals negative experience.

Which people wouldn't know.

All right, final question.

Whoever gets it right wins the whole fucking thing.

We're already winning.

What does it feel like, Haley?

But what about us?

What about us?

We were winning.

This is the mayor of San Diego.

We're winning.

Bam.

Good point.

Bam.

Good point.

Okay.

Also, we're gay, so we have to win.

Yes.

And bisexual.

Thank you.

And I voted for him.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you.

I love it.

Let's go.

In 2021, Netflix released a gay Christmas rom-com in which a man played by Michael Urey asked his best friend

played by, I don't even know who this is.

Doesn't matter.

To pretend to be his boyfriend at his nosy family's Christmas party with adorable results.

What is the name of that rom-com?

That's right.

But

I'll give you a hint.

The title is a play on words referencing a Christmas song.

That's not what they said.

That's what they said.

Yes.

And just like that,

the queers have it.

Land it up for the mayor of San Diego.

We won.

He won.

You won, Neil Fine.

Fine.

The gays win.

The gays win.

The trades get nothing.

That's our game.

And that's our show.

Thanks to the mayor of San Diego.

That's to Sam Sanders.

Thank you, Haley.

Thank you for coming.

Thanks to Pundit.

Thanks to our bisexuals.

Pot Save America is a crooked media production.

Our producers are Olivia Martinez and David Toledo.

Our associate producer is Farah Safari.

Writing support from Hallie Kiefer.

Reed Cherlin is our executive producer.

The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.

Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.

Madeleine Herringer is our our head of news and programming.

Matt DeGroote is our head of production.

Andy Taft is our executive assistant.

Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman, David Toles, Kirill Pelaviev, and Molly Lobel.

Subscribe to Pod Save America on YouTube to catch full episodes and extra video content.

Find us at youtube.com slash at PodSaveAmerica.

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