Ohio's Big Choice (Live from Cleveland!)

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Again, that's No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. What's up Cleveland? Welcome to Pod Save America.
I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Alyssa Mastromonaco.
I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vesor.
I'm Dan Pfeiffer. We have an outstanding show for you tonight.
Congresswoman Amelia Sykes is here. The executive director of Pro-Choice Ohio, Kelly Copeland, is here.
And we are so lucky to be joined by our pal, Alyssa Mastromonico, the co-host of Hysteria. So excited to be here.
We're so glad to have you. All right, let's get to the news.
So the war in Gaza has obviously become a big political issue here in the United States, obviously. As Israel began its ground invasion over the weekend, the GOP presidential candidates spoke at the Republican Jewish coalition in Las Vegas.
Vivek Ramaswamy told the crowd he'd love nothing more than for Israel to put the heads of Hamas leaders on stakes and line them up. Nikki Haley hit Trump the hardest for when he called Hezbollah smart and criticized Netanyahu.
And then Trump got up, ignored all of them, and got the best reception of the day. The experts said our pro-Israel policies would produce terror and chaos, but I knew the opposite was true.
That turned out to be right. Every single life that is lost in this conflict is on the shoulders of Hamas.
Hamas alone. It's Hamas alone.
And I think you have to really add in the word Iran. Think of this.
We immediately announced that we're giving Hamas $100 million. We're going to give it to them into Gaza, but they take it 100% of it.
They don't take 90%. They take 100%.
The Biden State Department, which is admitting colossal amounts of jihadists into our communities and campuses and our refugee programs. That's why you see all of these big demonstrations in New York and Chicago.
Nobody can believe what's taking place. They're letting them in at levels that nobody's ever seen before.
We cannot allow that to happen. And we don't want to be like Europe with jihads on every corner.
I will cancel the student visas of Hamas and sympathizers on college campuses. The college campuses are being taken over.
And all of the resident aliens who joined in the pro-jihadist protest this month,

nobody's ever seen anything like it.

Come 2025, we will find you and we will deport you.

We will deport you.

A chicken in every pot and a jihad on every corner.

I have to say, look, I don't like Trump,

but I think that Oberlin-Hamas exchange program was a mistake.

Tommy, would there be peace in the Middle East and calm in the streets if Trump were president right now? Yeah, I'm really never happier that he's no longer president than when there is some sort of global crisis or war breaking out or conflagration. You'd imagine him in like the situation room, refuses to turn off Fox and Friends, you know, he's retweeting cat turd or whatever he does.
I would argue that despite what President Trump said there, that his policies actually helped get us to where we are today and made things worse. That's because, like starting at the topic, Hamas is a evil, it's a terrorist organization.
They have a founding charter. You can read it.
It's anti-Semitic. It is designed to eliminate the state of Israel.
And the terror attack on October 7th was unjustifiable and evil and indefensible. And it's completely understandable that the Israelis would respond with military and intelligence operations first.
But I do think long term, to actually eradicate Hamas, you have to get to the root cause of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. You have to improve the life for Palestinians and you have to get back into a process of negotiations that can lead to a two state solution in a Palestinian state.
And so what Trump did in office with his dumb ass son in law, Jared Kushner, was he empowered Hamas by systematically undercutting the Palestinian Authority of basically two power centers for the Palestinian people. There's Hamas and the PA, the Palestinian Authority.
And Trump cut aid to the Palestinian Authority. He undercut the PA in negotiations on, you know, for final status negotiations about a two-state solution by recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and moving our embassy there.
And then his entire focus started to be on the Abraham Accords by the end of the administration, which are these deals between Israel and basically a bunch of sort of regional autocrats like the UAE or Sudan to normalize relations with Israel after given major incentives from the United States, often it was weapon systems, et cetera. Now, like the normalization the Abraham Accords and the normalization deals are not bad in and of themselves, but they made the Palestinian leadership and the Palestinian people felt like they were left behind and like they were an afterthought and desperate and hopeless.
And like there was no way out of Gaza or that, you know, their future was life under a military occupation in the West Bank without hope for a Palestinian state. And so that kind of desperation and hopelessness is fuel for an organization like Hamas that can point to the Palestinian Authority and say, look at them.
They are feckless. They are corrupt.
They've not delivered a thing for you through this political track, come to our side, we'll take direct action. And that can be a powerful message in that kind of situation.
So we need to going forward, make sure that that lunatic is never the president of the United States again, but also Joe Biden. I think the Biden administration needs to focus much more on getting Israelis and Palestinians into a room, back into negotiations, and I think less on the kind of Abraham Accord agreements with the Saudis that they've been more focused on.
It feels like we could be at war with Iran right now if he was president since he was saying, and I would throw the word Iran in there too, which is something you want to say off the cuff I'm sure yeah he's like I'm gonna say one word Hamas and Iran also also if he was president I think we could very well be seeing like crackdowns and deportations on campuses right now because he's clear we've we've seen him do this with protests before like I don't think he would be uh handling so well. The free speech warriors in the Republican Party?

Seriously, John?

So, Alyssa, some of the

other Republican candidates,

Nikki Haley did it during that event,

clearly thought that they would be able to

make an issue out of Trump's

Hezbollah praise and his

Netanyahu criticism. Judging

by that crowd of Jewish Republicans

and all the polls, they seem to have failed. Why do you think that is? You guys.
Clearly, the Republicans have the memory of goldfishes. They don't care.
This is, you know, like Tommy said, Trump did some things that would make them happy when he was president he moved the embassy to Jerusalem things like that but mostly this is like the first time he was really in a room back to back you know with all which we would call a cattle call like of all the other candidates yeah and the truth of the matter is like his base shows up like they want to hear what he has to say they almost don't care what he's saying they just want to hear him talk and i mean also on the one hand nikki haley girl your qualification being like as president i would not compliment hezbollah is like not exactly what i'm looking for at the it's like i hope so it seems like a low barrier to entry um but look i mean this is the same man that told people during a global pandemic to inject bleach into their arms and people are like you know what let's give him another chance and so it didn't really surprise me though i have to tell you watching that clip i was like i did not miss him that is that level of stupidity to be confronted with daily. He's sort of been hiding out.
We haven't been seeing a lot of him. I think when people see more, they're going to be like, oh, yeah, that was why.
He's back. I also think he did his penance.
He praised BB after he made those comments. But he's not super interested in the standing with Israel part.
What he's much more interested in is scaring Americans into thinking that dark-skinned foreigners are coming to cause us harm. Totally.
And he's the only one who can protect us. But, like, also, Republicans, do you not remember when he was still on Twitter and hate tweeting Kim Jong-un? I mean, like, this is not someone we want to be president when the stakes are as high as they are.
And so it was like very sad to see him get the applause that he got, but it's not exactly like he was confronted with other dynamic competitors. That is also true.
Dan, the White House responded to Trump's promise to reinstate an expanded Muslim ban with a statement that said, opposing hate is more pressing now than ever as American Muslims and Arab Americans increasingly find themselves the targets of appalling smears and heartbreaking violence. So Biden's obviously the president who repealed Trump's Muslim ban.
Why do you think they also wanted to weigh in on those specific comments? I think Biden is obviously torn. The Democratic Party is very divided on Joe Biden's response to Israel, what it means, whether he's doing enough or saying enough or expressing enough empathy for the people suffering in Gaza, and also responding to we are having across the board, there is a raft of anti-Semitic commentary and rhetoric and attacks in this country.
There has been anti-Muslim attacks and rhetoric in this country. And Biden is right to speak out about what Trump wants to do is to weaponize the fear that is happening here for political gain to call it out for.
And it is also notable that Trump's Muslim ban was one of his most unpopular policies that he put in place, and to remind people that that is what he would do. He's another person who would divide in this very dangerous time.
Yeah. And I think also it's to sort of send a message that, like, yes, Biden repealed the Muslim ban.
Biden will continue to speak out against Islamophobia. And by the way, in 2025, it's either going to probably be Donald Trump or Joe Biden as president.
And if it's Donald Trump, this is what you're going to get from him. Love it.
So here's a, to Dan's point about the Democratic Party divide, here's a pair of fun headlines from the New York Times over the weekend. The first is Democrats splinter over Israel

as the young, diverse left rages at Biden.

And the second is primary battles brew

over progressive Democrats' stances on Israel.

So this seems like a split that's unfortunately

only going to get worse as the death toll rises in Gaza.

How do you think President Biden is handling the issue?

How about that question?

I give love at the hard one.

I got this.

So first, just a caveat that, no, I'm not the person who understands how Joe Biden should

handle the delicate, strategic, and diplomatic and political challenge of Israel and Palestine at a moment of a generational crisis. Why not? Just working on the game.
Because we're touring. I've been watching a lot of Survivor.
So just everyone heard that caveat? Great. I feel like it is, I think, important that we're seeing a little bit more of Trump as just a bit of a refresher as to where the base of the party is on this issue, having Vivek out there saying these sort of bloodthirsty things, having Trump out there with this Islamophobia, sort of complimenting what people like Lindsey Graham have already been out there saying, kind of representing what the right actually believes, which is sort of an unfettered approval of an unrestrained response by Israel.
On the other hand, you have, I think, a lot of anti-Semitism, a lot of anti-Israel propaganda, a lot of misinformation, meant to, I think,

rightly kind of speak to the concerns and pain and fear that people have legitimately

for the Palestinians, but at the same time, I think, alienating the vast group of people

in the middle who believe in both the humanitarian responsibility that the world has to the people of Gaza, as well as understanding and having empathy for Israel and the crisis it's in, the losses it's experienced. So I think there's two things.
I think in word and in deed, look, the challenge, right, is we don't know the difference between what Joe Biden says publicly, what the administration says publicly, what the administration is doing to pressure Israel behind the scenes.

But that being said, I think that there is more Joe Biden could be doing to speak to that growing, progressive, young part of the party that truly doesn't understand why the United States isn't putting more pressure on Israel. And I think that that calls for actions, but also calls for words.
And just speaking to that concern directly and explaining more directly, A, what we can be doing to protect people in Gaza, and B, why part of this deeper problem is not just what Israel is doing to remove Hamas, but also the failures on the part of Hamas, on the part of the Palestinian Authority, the failures that have happened inside of Gaza, inside of the leadership on behalf of the Palestinians that has helped lead to this moment. On the other side of it, I sometimes feel like this is, I understand why this is off-putting to people when you say, hey, you need to say that you need to denounce Hamas, you need to respect, you need to say that you understand that Israel has a right to defend itself, you need to talk about the fact that Israel has a right to exist.
You need to reject the kind of ahistorical kind of academic lefty online jargon like settler colonialism. You need to speak out when people say things like from the river to the sea, which is terrifying to people that follow it to its logical implication, which is that there cannot be a state of Israel, that there's a value to denouncing that because it's like, why are you calling for this kind of denunciation? The crisis right now is that they're bombarding Gaza, that thousands of people in Gaza are dying.
And I appreciate that. I hear that.
But what I see is that I think the most effective way to advocate on behalf of the humanitarian needs of the people of Gaza the safety and lives of the people in Gaza is being part of this big coalition that understands that that the future of Israelis and the future of Palestinians are linked and that you need people that believe in a free and safe democratic and Jewish state of Israel to demonstrate that they believe in the humanity of people in Gaza, but you also, those people that are advocating and believe in Israel want to be part of a coalition with the people advocating on behalf of Gazans that your advocacy isn't at the expense of Israel's right to exist to the safety and freedom of people in Israel as well. And I feel like that is a big group of people.
That is sort of the big middle between the very far right, which does not give, that basically wants Israel to level Gaza, and the very far left that doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist. No, I mean, look, I think if the progressive movement is about anything it's about solidarity and i think that it is possible and important to hold two ideas in your head at the same time which is you can want joe biden to do more to pressure bb to go after hamas in a way that results in fewer civilian casualties a lot less suffering and a war that doesn't spread throughout the Middle East.
And if Biden doesn't think that's possible or wise, he needs to tell the American people why. And then I think Jewish Democrats who are upset with progressives, like you said, want them to be more forceful, not only in their denunciation of Hamas, but also in their denunciation of the disgusting anti-Semitism that we're seeing here in the US and all over the world.
And don't think those two I think you can advocate for both those things I don't think they should be in conflict at all yeah and yeah just to say it simply it's like the you'll be that if you care about advocating for humanitarian aid and relief for people in Gaza you are in a much better position to do that when you're advocating it as part of a big coalition that recognizes that, whatever, I've said it already. Move on.
How many more weeks are we going to talk about this? I guess forever. Tommy, it does seem like every day more and more progressives are calling for a ceasefire.
You have, I saw you on Twitter. I also see you in person, but I saw you on Twitter.
That's the public. Why do you think the Biden administration isn't there yet for people who are just wondering? Like, what's going on? Yeah.
So President Biden and a lot of people around him think that the better path in terms of actually influencing Bibi Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, and getting him to do what they want is to back him publicly and then fight with him privately. I've been in meetings with these same people giving the same advice when it was President Obama.
They say, hug Bibi in Joe Biden's case to Israel. That was physically happened.
But then, you know, tell him what you really think in private. And I'll just be honest.
I fucking hate that. I hate that philosophy.
I hate that approach for a couple of reasons. One, I don't trust Bibi Netanyahu.
I don't think he's a good leader. I don't think he's an honest person and I don't think we should outsource decision-making to him.
Two, if you only speak your mind privately, then you forego your ability to define the narrative and tell the world what you think. And if Biden has concerns about the way the Netanyahu government is conducting this operation in Gaza, the world is not hearing it.
The world thinks that everything the Israeli government does is backed 100% by the United States. And so in fairness to Joe Biden, I think that his trip to Israel and his pressure from him personally and from his team is part of the reason that the Israeli government did not launch a preemptive strike on Hezbollah and Lebanon, which would have been an unmitigated disaster.
It would be opening a second front in this war is about the scariest thing I could imagine. But if the U.S.
has been pressuring Israel privately to allow more aid into Gaza, to dial back the airstrikes, to forego a ground invasion, then they have failed and seemingly failed catastrophically. And so listen, like right again, I'm a podcaster, right? Like I don't, I'm not living next to Hamas.
I'm sitting here in Los Angeles, the comfortable life. And, but I fully understand that right after the terrorist attack on the 7th of October, that the Israeli defense forces had to target Hamas.
They had to take out the rockets that were still being launched into Israel. Days and days later, they had to go after their leadership.
They had to try to disrupt any kind of Hamas operations they could find to rescue hostages in those early days. But now we're sitting here three plus weeks later, 7,000 airstrikes later in an area half the size of New York City.
The latest casualty count on Sunday night was 8,000 people are dead, many of them children. And so what I would like to see is at least some sort of, at least a temporary ceasefire.
Some of the timeframes have been floated, let's say five days. You get humanitarian aid into Gaza.
You begin negotiations around getting back hostages. I think, unfortunately, if history proves to be true now, that we're going to get hostages back, the Israelis will get hostages back through some sort of prisoner release and swap.
That's what happened when Hamas took a soldier named Gilad Shalit, held him for five years, and the Israelis ended up having to trade, let a thousand prisoners out of Israeli prisons to get back Shalit. I think something similar might happen here.
But, you know, like big, big picture, I don't want to see Israel get drawn into a bigger quagmire ground invasion, a broader regional conflict that includes Hezbollah, which has a lot better arms and 10 times the funding from Iran and would just be a very, very scary proposition. And I think Joe Biden went over to Israel and was like, don't repeat the mistakes we made after 9-11.
Don't react out of vengeance. It's like, think about this.
I think that's very good advice. And I'm hoping that some sort of temporary pause or ceasefire could lead to a more measured response because the Israeli government is saying, this is going to take a long time.
This will be a months-long process. It's a long campaign.
So let's get relief into these people who desperately need it now. I think Tommy fixed it.
So come to Cleveland. They said to Alyssa, we'll have a light conversation about politics.
These guys know that I was like, here's the thing. I'm going to be super honest with you guys.
I feel, uh, very self-conscious when I'm put in a position to talk about something that I don't know a ton about. And I wish more people were like me a little bit.
And I think in general, we all wish more people were like you. I just it's like here's what I would just say.
This is my, my two cents. Um, protesting, uh, what the Israeli government doing is doing is fine.
It's what this country is built on. You can protest and it's freedom of speech, but for God's sake, do it peacefully.
Don't do it in a way that makes people who are already afraid and living in a fear that you possibly can't understand feel more fearful. And I think that that's just so important.
On social media, I was telling these guys, I have gone down such a spiral because I see something and I have to fact check it like five different times because

I want to make sure whatever I'm reading is true. And so I would just say that I think so many

people have good intentions and just really think about, you know, when you are talking to someone

about this issue, you know, it may be an intellectual exercise for you, but it may be

them revealing to you their deepest pain.

And so don't discount that by trying to win an argument.

On that note.

Okay, we'll be right back.

Now it's time for OK Stop.

You know how it works.

We roll a clip, we start.

We comment as we go.

This week on OK Stop,

Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson.

You know him, you love him.

Big fans.

Got some big Johnson fans.

When he... We've already forgotten who he is.

But before we forgot him,

before we knew him,

before he was a member of Congress,

he was a candidate.

And when he was a candidate, he gave a sermon where he laid out his philosophy, what he

believed about the culture.

And also what he believed about certain gigantic boats and what could have been on them.

And it's a lot more than you'd think Let's roll the clip some of y'all around in the late 60s you remember that what that was about the counterculture revolution Woodstock and drugs and peace and free love and all that but more about the undermining of the foundations of religion and morality Because if you remember, in the late 60s, we invented things like no-fault divorce laws. We invented the sexual revolution.
We invented radical feminism. We invented

legalized abortion in 1973.

Okay, stop.

Radical feminism. Oh my God, whatever will we do? We invented no-fault divorce.
Could you imagine? Invented, like we're like Edison cranking things out in a lab. I was like...
Also, who's we? Getting a patent for no-fault divorce. What role did Mike Johnson play? We? It's real don't threaten me with a good time list.
You know? It's like... Look, everything went downhill after Maude terminated that pregnancy.
Sure, she was 47, but she and Walter could have made it work. Did that work for anybody? Me! I love Maude! Do people in Cleveland know about Maude? Maude was the first woman in prime time to get an abortion.
Absolutely. Welcome.
And that's not on my cards. I knew that.
Okay. We know that we're living in a completely amoral society.
And so people say, how can a young person go into their schoolhouse and open fire on their classmates? Because we've taught a whole generation, a couple of generations now of Americans that there is no right and wrong,

that it's about survival of the fittest and you evolve from the primordial slime. Okay, stop.
Fuck the primordial slime? Look, I was going to become a pastor. But now that I know about the voyage of the beagle, I'm going to kill a volleyball team you see the finches had different their noses the finches with the longer beak survived now I'm going to kill everybody he drew little pictures in his little book of all the different animals he saw in the Galapagos.
And ever since, I have this image in my mind. Sorry.
Okay. You can't read the words, you're real small, but if you drive around the state of Kentucky all over the interstate, you'll see this billboard.
Answers in Genesis put it up. Just so people understand for reference.
Mike Johnson is showing a billboard for Ark Encounter, a creationist museum in Kentucky dedicated to the Great Flood and the construction of Noah's Ark as real, historical, verifiable events, including explaining how they got all the dinosaurs on there. A lot of dinos on the Ark, guys.
A lot of dinos on the ark. It's a big boat.
And there was room for all the dinosaurs on there. And that's so important.
So important. All right, let's continue.
To all of our liberal, intolerant friends, thank God you can't sink this ship. Okay, stop.
That's a laugh line. I don't understand.
So the billboard is a picture of Noah's Ark, and it says, to all our liberal and tolerant friends, thank God you couldn't sink this ship. I don't even understand what it means.
I know. Of course we didn't exist.
We're modern-day people. Nor would we have wanted to sink the ship if it had existed.
Can you sink a metaphor? I don't know. Also, I'm really struggling with this band set up in the back because you know just the most cringy Creed shit is about to get played.
Yeah, it's like, what happened immediately prior or immediately after this sermon? Yeah. I think this was the big event of the day.
He's a keynote. I just think it doesn't make sense.
Like, hey, liberals, we wouldn't let you on this ship then, you wouldn't on now that's at least something you know hey God flooded the earth but maybe not historically accurate but I've also seen Jurassic World and you don't get on the boat with the dinosaurs and the dinosaurs can swim they're in the water too that's the other part you guys we've cracked the code here I'm telling, I could talk about the Ark thing forever. We're getting to the bottom of the Ark.
I know I brought it up. I just, what I really don't understand, I still, like, the Ark is not even the most confusing part to me.
The most confusing part to me is the first couple years post-Ark. That's just, I don't get it.
I don't know what they're eating. Were there extra species just to be consumed?

Because it's like if you're going to,

because these are predators that need to eat other birds.

And so it's like, are there birds we don't have?

Because those are the ones.

There's a big hole in the plot line in the Bible between.

I'll tell you.

Suddenly you're just like, whoa, did I miss a page?

Yeah.

So you're like, where the White Walkers go? This doesn't make any sense anymore. I was telling you.
Do you think he brought all the freshwater fish on the boat? Yeah, that's a great question. Interesting.
Was it all freshwater? Just two of each fish? What couldn't have... Is it all freshwater? You guys, I feel like I missed a lot in fourth grade history.

Yeah.

If we ever did an interview with Mike Johnson,

these are the only questions.

Nothing about the supplemental government funding or his views on whatever.

I'd just be like, we've got to talk about the arc.

I just want to talk about the arc.

Vintage Tim Russer, just like follow up after follow up.

Picture up on the screen.

Okay.

So,

no, this is neat. Do you all watch

the New Year's Eve, Rockin' New Year's Eve with the ball drops

for New Year's Eve? So Kelly and I put the kids to bed.

We were watching it. And this year,

Ryan Seacrest is standing there in Times Square.

And I see over his shoulder.

Kelly, come here. Come here.
Okay, stop.

Do they still call it Rockin'

New Year's Eve?

Just thinking of poor Kelly in another room,

having a solitary moment

of peace.

Just gripping the counter

and thinking of

someone else somewhere else.

No fault divorce. Just regretting her decision to get into this covenant marriage.
All right, we can keep going. Maybe they're happy.
Giant digital billboard right over Ryan Seacrest's shoulder. It was like 20 billion people watching it.
Is that, to all of our intolerant liberal friends,

thank God, it's like, they did not do that.

They did.

They went there.

Okay, stop.

They went there, girlfriend.

And we all remember,

after liberals saw this vague and confusing billboard

behind Ryan Seacrest in Manhattan,

we all gave up completely,

and the conservatives had won.

Every Jewish gay guy married their bossiest single girlfriend.

Barack Obama sent Lena Dunham to Gitmo.

We all remember that.

Yeah, that happened.

When that happened.

Hillary agreed not to go to Wisconsin.

Oh.

Oh, time.

Was that too soon?

Too soon.

Jesus Christ.

Still too soon. Still too soon.

Still too soon.

What did you want, Dan?

We stopped pretending to recycle.

After we saw that billboard,

Disney released a short film

where Woody and Buzz Lightyear

bullied that boy from Luca

until he went back to the sea.

Back to the sea with you.

No finding love on the land.

You little Italian boy

in this metaphor.

And that's okay, stop.

When we come back,

Ohio representative Amelia Sykes.

Joining us now is a representative for Ohio's 13th Congressional expect, right? I'm impressed. I'm impressed.
Thank you so much for being here. It's great timing because you guys have a big election coming up in November.
No, hadn't heard of it. Yeah.
So for folks at home, can we start with issue one? Can you explain to folks on the podcast who might not know about issue one, about how important this vote is for abortion rights in the state of Ohio? Absolutely. Issue one is very simple.
It is going to codify in our state's constitution the right for women to access abortion services in Ohio. It's very simple.
But wait, there's more. There's more because not only will it say that people can access abortion services, that there is a constitutional right for birth control, for fertility treatment, for miscarriage care, all of the things that a person of reproductive age wants access to.
So not only can we grow our families, start our families, we can survive in a state like Ohio that has one of the worst maternal mortality rates in the entire country. So it's going to, we're going to win, but what happens if we don't? What are the stakes? Well, if we don't win, and we are not speaking that to existence because as excited as this crowd is, that's what people feel like all over the state.
There has been a lot of confusion. There was an issue one in August.
There's an issue one in November. August was no.
November is yes. The ballot board had some very strange language.
They rewrote the language to be longer than the actual ballot language, took out all of the meaningful pieces of information so folks actually knew what the ballot language was going to do.

And now we have our governor doing a press tour saying,

hey, guys, don't worry.

We'll put those exceptions in that we've been fighting against

for the past 10 years.

Just trust me.

And so we are not thinking of what's going to happen when this fail, because it cannot fail. It cannot fail.
This is a must pass ballot initiative. And that's why you're seeing such excited, exuberant people all across the state and really all across this country who wants to see a state like Ohio, y'all, Ohio, make sure that we are enshrining abortion rights and reproductive rights in our constitution.
So I'm excited. You guys are excited too, right? We're not going to fail.
We're not going to fail. So I know that you've been working on maternal health issues for a very long time, not just in US Congress, but here in Ohio.
How big is this moment, is this vote for that broader set of issues that you've dedicated your career to? Well, they're very much one of each other, because when you look at states that have abortion bans like we have in Ohio, we have some of the highest maternal mortality rates. And that means people who have tried to get pregnant, are looking forward to pregnancies, can't have them.
And in addition to our maternal mortality rates being high, our infant mortality rates are high. So we're talking about devastation in families because folks aren't being able to access the care they need, when they need it, how they need it.
And while I think I'm pretty smart, I'm not the one that should be answering the questions as to when someone can have an abortion, can go to an emergency room, should be on a certain type of medication. That's not my job.
Unfortunately, many of my colleagues don't have that level of humility to understand there are things that we do and do well, and there are some places we should not be a part of. And decisions about reproductive health care, what's happening in doctor's offices is not a place where I should be.
And I don't want to be there. I want you to be there in the comfort with your loved ones, your physicians, your health care providers.
But unfortunately, we're not getting that. So I am very worried about the maternal health crisis in Ohio, especially as a black woman.
Black women have some of the worst maternal death rates and morbidity rates in this state in addition to the country. And we are constantly trying to convince our colleagues that this is a matter of life and death for us.
And you either have to care about us or you don't. And you let me know that you don't care about me by supporting anti-abortion legislation.
And if you're voting no on one, I know exactly what you think about women. You don't think anything about us.
You can tell I care about this a little bit, right? Just a little bit. I'm just going to air out that applause.
That's good stuff. We were in Kentucky yesterday, bastion of liberalism.

We were knocking doors with some amazing organizers from Planned Parenthood.

We were in a very Catholic neighborhood, and we talked to a couple of folks who were like,

listen, folks who looked like me in 30 years, right?

Like people don't look like Democrats. We're like, oh, yeah, pulling the lever straight ticket Democrat for the first time in my life because of, uh, because of abortion access.
But the other thing that some of the organizers were talking about at the doors were, was the concern that birth control was next, you know, that they were coming after, you know, sort of all sorts of steps in the bedroom. Is that something that you're talking to voters about? Is that a concern here? Absolutely.
But the biggest issue is freedom, the freedom to choose your own destiny and to have some dude someplace deciding what I can and cannot do, or this person deciding what you can or you can or, or you can, or can I do. It's absurd.

And so when I talk to people, I talk about freedom and the ability to make decisions for yourself. And who is the person who is best situated to do it? It's obviously you.
It's not the Speaker of the House. It's not our governor.
It's not our Attorney General. And it certainly is not our Secretary state.
So why would we allow them the opportunity to make such important decisions? And we're not. And so when I say to you, we cannot lose.
We're not going to lose because we cannot lose. And I am repetitive in that way.
I used to be a cheerleader, so repetition is the key. You have to say it over and over again.
That's how people remember. I like it a lot.
I like it a lot. Speaking of dudes who want to tell us all what to do, have you met the new Speaker of the House, Mr.
Mike Johnson? No. No one has met the guy.
No. Did he just come out of nowhere for everybody? Well, okay.
So I am a first-term member of Congress. So that gives me a little bit of leeway.

But when Susan Collins said, maybe I have to Google this dude and I can figure out who he is and how it can work. I mean, geez, isn't he, he's one of your people.
You could, you could show him a little bit more love, but we are finding more about him. We're learning more about him as we just saw in the previous segment.
And, you know, I was very disappointed to see us just not do anything for weeks at a time. We were supposed to be in our districts working with our constituents.
We had to cancel all these meetings and people were expecting us. And instead we're in DC sitting around and just voting for people who don't have enough votes and who knew they weren't going to have enough votes to be speaker.
Yet and still, the people in our districts across the country were looking for us to show up, looking for us to be in meetings and talking about the work that we were doing. And then next thing you know, in the middle of the night, it seems like Mike Johnson gets the votes and the nod from Donald Trump.
And now he's our speaker. And in the time that we've had to understand who he is, it's really disappointing, but not really shocking that we have a speaker of the house who wants to gut Social Security and Medicaid, who wants every state in the country to be right to work, who does not believe that there should be same-sex marriage, and wants a total abortion ban.
And so when you ask me, why am I so optimistic about issue one, it's because I have to be. Because if someone like Mike Johnson is the Speaker of the House, and he is, he's going to push for a total abortion ban.
And the only thing that is going to save us is us in Ohio. And that means issue one must pass.
Yeah, I mean, so we were in D.C. a couple weeks ago.
We met. We did an event on the Hill.
Got to meet some really amazing, exciting, inspiring new members of Congress on the Democrats. We have a great class.
It's really an amazing group of people. We have the best class ever.
Yeah, they're cool. they're fun, they're brilliant in all these different ways.
Can confirm, yes. But it was so funny being with you all because we were all kind of gossiping and trying to figure out what's coming up next.
And nobody knew. Everyone's just checking Twitter.
So can you just help everyone understand, there's no one in charge of the House of Representatives. What do the members do for like three weeks? Well, we got really good at talking to one another about who are we following on Twitter to figure out where we would get information from.
And it was really interesting trying to see who is actually the reporter, the news person that was getting it right. And then we were trying to figure out who was the mole in the Republican conference.
Ooh, I love that. Because there's someone who's giving them all the information.
And one of the, Jake Sherman, he was the guy. And it's like, who is calling Jake Sherman? It's like play by play, second by second.
And he had more information than the people in the room. So that was sort of one of the games we were playing, trying to figure out what was going on.

I was playing the same game.

It was a great game.

Speaking of members of Congress, who we may or may not know,

do you know Dean Phillips?

Do we have any impression of him?

I am super excited that we have an administration that has done great things for this country,

including this state.

And if I could give a big shout out, because we just got a tech hub in Akron. Are you guys familiar with the tech hubs? And no, I'm not going to answer your question, just in case you're wondering.
Perfect. I'm going to take this opportunity to talk about what the administration has done for Ohio's 13th district.
Because our community had researched and applied for a tech hub last year, and was denied And now we're going to have one. And it's all around polymer science.
And listen, polymers are very cool. Just trust me.
So if you're ever wondering about plastics and polymers, come on to Ohio's 13th district. We'll tell you all about it.
But what I'm most excited about is that we have an administration right now that is doing what we've asked them to do, that is supporting our workers, that is trying to put more money in people's pockets, that is being thoughtful about women's rights, about diversity, about ensuring that everyone can live their American dream. And I think that people will see that come election time next year.
We are a year out and it's hard to get people to focus on elections. Even as we're trying to get to issue one, people are busy.

They've got kids.

They're trying to put food on their table.

And it's easy right now to get caught up in the chaos of who is this and what shiny object do we want to follow?

I'm looking at the results, and I'm looking at what we're getting in Ohio's 13th congressional district,

and I'm pleased to be supporting an administration, will be supporting an administration that will continue to deliver those results. I hope you do too.
I like that. So you were talking about workers in your state and support for them.
I know you recently joined with a bunch of UAW workers on the picket line. You're out there showing solidarity.
There's been some

debate and some concern about whether, you know, rank and file union members feel like the

Democratic Party is fighting for them. What did you come away with feeling like after that time

on the picket line? Well, that was not my first time on the picket line with UAW striking workers.

And I have to say it. Did you all see that time when Marcy Kaptor said, is this your first time? That won't be me.
It was not my first time. So what we heard from workers several years ago when we were in Toledo is the same thing that we heard from folks a couple weeks ago was they've been working really hard.
They made a lot of people very rich, and they just want to make sure that they are able to access the same ways and pathways to wealth and being able to put food on their table. Folks across this country, folks across Ohio and my district, they are struggling, and inflation is high, and we have to accept that to be a truth.
But we also have to recognize that there are pathways for folks to get what they need in order to survive. And unions, labor unions, are leading the way.
I was so amazed as I talked to those workers and understood what they were sacrificing to be on strike. That they weren't getting the pay that they should have been getting to pay for food, gas, groceries, rent, mortgages.
But they knew how important it was for them to stand up, not just for themselves, but for workers across the UAW, but not just members of unions, members who may not be in unions thinking, why would I want to be a part of that? Well, you want to be a part of it because these are the people moving the conversation forward and making sure that you have your access to the American dream. So I left there probably more encouraged at their grit and their resilience and their willingness to be there.
They probably did more for me than I did for them showing up there. And I am steadfast, wholeheartedly, always will be in solidarity with our union's friends because they are truly the reason why people can have a good life in this country.
They truly are. And we should support them every step of the way.
So bravo to UAW, two out of three. They've got one more left.
And we'll be excited and we'll be cheering them on when they do it. All right.
Last question for you. We were talking in DC.
You're in a tough seat. It's basically a toss up.
Presidential years can be challenging for Democrats in Ohio. Like, what's it going to take for you to win, for Sherrod Brown to win, for all the other statewide and local Dems to win, too? I'm not leaving anybody out.
And how can people help out? Absolutely. So first of all, it's going to take everyone in this audience to help us all win.
And so we're relying on you. And let me thank you in advance for all that you have done and all that you're going to do to make sure that we keep Sherry Brown and the United States Senate and we re-elect myself and Marcy Captor and Joyce Beatty and Chantel Brown and Greg Lansman.
And so I'm in Ohio's only toss-up congressional district. All the others are either safe D or likely D, and I'm in the only toss-up district.
And people often are really shocked to hear that because they assume as a black woman, I'm in a very D plus 40 district. But I'm not.
My district is an R plus one district. And I won and outperformed President Biden's performance.
I won by five points. And I won because of people like you in the audience.
I won because I went to the people and told them how I'm going to work for them. And I showed them my record.
And I'm going to continue to show them my record and say, I am earning your vote. I'm not just going to ask for it.
I'm going to earn your vote. But I'm also going to ask you to make a donation because it's really expensive.
My race was $21 million. Did you? $21 million.
Yes. Yes.
Let's all be appalled with, first of all, how much elections cost and that this race was $21 million. And so the Republicans have already started attacking me.
They've stopped for a little bit because I think they were trying to get their act together. But now that they're back, I expect to see them soon.
So visit Amelia Sykes for Congress, forcongress.com. Please make a donation if you can.
Make sure that we push back against these MAGA extremists and win in a district where they don't expect us to. We can do it again.
All right. Well, folks, listen, some really good members of Congress out there.
There's very few great ones. So please make a donation.
Help out. Congressman Amelia Sykes, thank you so much for being here.
Thank you for coming. There are just 78 days to go until the Iowa caucuses.
And one week until the Republican debate in Miami.

And it looks like it'll be down to Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, Chris Christie.

And just today, Tim Scott said he finally qualified.

Yeah, my guy.

There you go.

Mike Pence has dropped out.

Oh, mother. He decided he'd rather hang at home He just couldn't hang Beat me Beat me Yikes He suspended his campaign From what? Boo And the party'sner...
It was really neck and neck. Okay.
Wow. And the party's criminal defendant frontrunner is skipping yet again because of his huge lead in all the polls that's undoubtedly due to performances like this.
I mean, they're not doing well. They're not being treated.
And they are right now at a level. I think we're going to get...
So we're at 28. You know, the same people that attacked Israel are coming into our country, too.
And did you ever notice? Somebody said the other day, some fool on CNN said, oh, isn't that nice? They're all nice young men They have young men 23 24 22 years old Strong they like nice young men. There's something going on.
There's something going on. It's not a good thing They have a lot of young men young strong men I don't want to insult the women, but they're young strong men even though as you know They want men to play in women's sports.
know that we're not going to allow that we're not allowing that i want to do that too i'm an extraordinary athlete i want to play and i apologize for those lights the only place i don't have a light up here so that means we're gonna have to wig it tonight okay there's no light they give us plenty of give us plenty of lights, but not to read this crap. Look, they wrote me a beautiful speech.
I might as well throw it right out the window. Man, that's tough for the speech writers.
I will tell you. That hurts.
When did you get into the... Where does that voice come from? Nice young men.
Strong. Strong young men.
Sexy men. Something's going on.
It's like he clicked over to the wrong Pornhub side. It's like...
Just put that in an ad. What is that? Weird guy.
Weird dude. Alright.
Aly Alyssa, the field is narrowing, but so far the polls are not.

Though by the time people listen to the show,

there will be a New Des Moines Register poll that could render all of our takes meaningless.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Slow down.

I know.

You got a message box in waiting?

Tomorrow morning at 6 a.m. We're going to get a poll.
These takes, you're going to either eat them tonight or they're banana bread tomorrow. But Alyssa, do you, we haven't talked about this, do you see anything brewing that could change the dynamic in the Republican primary over the next 78 days? You guys.
So, you know, you talk about the polar coaster coaster and everything but i did a little polling deep dive in preparation for today so there was a new 538 is that what it's called 538 yeah yeah 538 poll trump 56.9 desantis 14 hayley 8 ramaswamy 5.8 okay so you take? Mm-hmm. Just FYI, Tim Scott's at two in that poll.
I stopped writing them down below five. Smart.
Okay. So here's my vibe.
He's, like, in pretty good shape. Except, except, there are some things that have happened in the past couple of weeks.
One particularly delicious development that I've enjoyed. So one, we got a little Jenna Ellis white lady tears, right? Okay.
Then you've got Sidney Powell. You've got Ken Chesborough, or as I like to call them all, star witnesses.

So like, it's possible that they've

got the goods on him. Oh yeah.

Like it's possible. The best

part, the most delicious nugget for

anyone who missed it,

Ivanka has been ordered

to testify

in the New York civil fraud

trial. I am

not gonna lie.

Under oath, do you love your father? I love this so much. Under oath is your father, and I told you he loved you.
There you go, Dan. I fight for too much.
So, you know, I think there are a lot of things that could happen in court. I mean, like, they are moving.
Like, when Fonnie Willis filed these charges, everyone was like, there is no way she's going to be able to flip people this fast. Seems that she could.
So, I don't know. We'll see what happens.
I really think that that is the only potential that could upend him from being the Republican nominee. God help us all.
But, yeah, that's my hot take. That's it.
That's it. I just wonder if it'll happen in time because- I mean, that's the whole thing, but like Sidney Powell cut a deal in like a week.
Yeah. You know, Jenna Ellis, I mean, she was like one and done.
She's like, I'll take probation. I'll testify as needed and I will do community service.

This is what I have to imagine is

real. These people

are getting away with actual kind of

murder.

It's the standing in the middle of Fifth

Avenue thing. It's just getting closer and closer.

Jenna Ellis crying, crying.

I should have asked more questions

of Ruli Giuliani.

Yes, you should have.

But like, she got

community service in like a $5,000

Thank you. I should have asked more questions of Ruli Giuliani? Yes, you should have.

But like, she got community service in like a $5,000 fine.

So like...

Must have given something good.

I mean, look,

unless law and order

after all these years has let me down,

I gotta assume she gave something good.

Well, so obviously

you can't beat something with nothing.

So someone has to beat Donald Trump

if he is somehow weakened between now and Iowa.

Dan, here's the top Politico headline today.

I know you're excited about this.

The rise is real.

That's in quotations.

Haley's breakout is jolting.

2024 is undercard race.

Are you feeling the jolt?

Look, John, who isn't riveted by the ups and downs, the moving and shaking, and the riveting race for a distant second to Donald Trump? I mean, the whole thing is stupid. She's not even in second place yet.
She's in third place. Again, that's a pretty confident statement when the Iowa polls come up.
I'm just giving you the national polls. I think there is a, this is the important caveat here, there is a chance that the Demoire Register poll will come out that will show her in a distant second to Donald Trump.
I just wanted to make sure you got on the record saying that. I'm trying to save you.
If there is some prize for second place in the Republican primary, which Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley seem very convinced there is. Do you get like half the pot? Vice president.
Whatever it is, she is well positioned to have a shot to possibly come in second. I think we should all pay a lot of attention to that.
Do you think it's because she said she would never compliment Hezbollah? Honestly, that story in Politico was so goddamn stupid that I've been stewing about it since you sent it to me this morning it was the headline it was the full page of politico it is just a reminder that we do not need minute by minute coverage of a largely boring campaign i know and it's like we haven't one of the arguments for two days a week that's all you Yeah, you know what? Come on. I would say an hour and 15 minutes twice a week is fucking pitch perfect.

Right?

We've been talking about Gaza and the speakers race for so long now. We actually haven't covered the GOP primary in a while, partly because there's nothing much to cover.
There's a reason because there's nothing to cover. But in this story, they're like, one of the reasons people are moving to Nikki Haley is that the attention has turned to foreign policy, and she has a foreign policy background.
Yeah, no, that's... Do we think that's what's happening? No.
No, I don't. Tommy, Ron DeSantis' new line is that Trump is only leading because he has 100% name ID.
And Trump's super PAC apparently just went up on the air in Iowa with an ad attacking DeSantis do you think it's hard to say this with all the straight face do you think that he's still a threat to Donald Trump or are they just looking to humiliate him at this point hmm I mean both we were raised in a normal political world where you don't punch down the sort of early phases of the campaign are kind of nicer and it's lots of like oblique shots on policy, right? Trump just got into the campaign in 2016 and started pummeling anyone he perceived as a threat. And I was watching his speech in Nevada where he was bragging to this audience for an hour and 10 minutes that he does not play prevent defense.

Prevent defense for you non-football fans is when you drop back all your defensive backs so you won't give up a touchdown. Why are you looking at me? Looking to love it.
But you're willing to give up some kind of short yardage. Trump does not play prevent defense.
He is smash mouth football. He's blitzing.
He's killing the quarterback. So I think he just likes kicking the shit out of Ron DeSantis.
Who doesn't? Agree with Trump. Remember when DeSantis got in the race and Trump was openly deciding which nickname he was going to use? Like, should I use DeSantis? Should I call him Meatball? And these conservative remember tiny d tiny d desanctimonious desanctus at one point he just like gave up he's like i'll call him whatever the fuck i want he's not gonna win and these conservative commentators like mark levin were like oh i hope he doesn't do that it's going to offend a lot of conservatives what happened trump skyrocketed like 50 in all these polls and and you know desantis tank so i think he both loves what he's doing.
When you love what you're doing, it's not a job, but it's also effective politics. It's also like DeSantis coming out with a new rationale for why he's losing is actually why he's losing.
Underneath why he's losing, which is because he's the kind of person that thinks that's a good idea. Like Ron DeSantis, actually what is most interesting about Ron DeSantis as a candidate is one thing he successfully did is introduce himself to the United States of America.
He actually is way better known than he has any right to be. Going after Disney, becoming the fucking woke police, having that personality, it really connected.
What personality? And unfortunately, it connected in a really bad way. The United States is aware of Ron DeSantis and they say, no, thank you.
Donald Trump isn't just winning against people who haven't heard of Ron DeSantis. Republican primary voters are aware of Ron DeSantis.
They've given him a good look. They've said, what's going on in those boots, sir? You're, you know, that is you're wearing a 5'10 suit.
You got 5'7 energy. The theme of the theme of the weekend.
Just to put some numbers on this. I just did that, Dan dan is that ronda sanchez is trailing by 45 points in the polls and his approval rating is about his id his name id is about five points less than trump's jesus christ so that doesn't work that well for him that excuse um so the minority of republicans who don't Trump as the nominee, some of them are in the consultant class, because they've run elections, and some politicians as well, they're starting to say that it is time for all the other candidates to drop out, just like Pence did, so this can become a one-on-one contest.
Love it. Do you think it's quitting time for your friends

Chris Christie and Tim Scott?

I know they're...

Hmm.

Look, I...

I know you're close to both of them.

Obviously, the conversations I have with Chris

are between us, and I'm going to leave.

That's my counsel to him.

Tim Scott should drop out.

But the problem with this is, look, sure, we know the field. Great.
But there's this idea that the people not currently, that all the people supporting Tim Scott, all the people, all the people, all the person supporting Tim Scott, Doug Bergman and his wife, that the idea is that these votes are going to all kind of go to the Trump alternative.

A lot of them are going to go to Trump.

You look at some of the polling.

If you ask, if you do the whole field,

you'll end up with Trump in the high 40s

and DeSantis way below,

and the rest of them getting their single digits.

If you just do, say, Trump and DeSantis,

Trump goes above 50.

So, sure, yeah, consolidate. Great.
Try it. No bad ideas in a brainstorm.
There is this, you know, this is silly to talk about because it's coming out after we post this show, but this Des Moines Register poll will be interesting because the last one, the Des Moines Register polls in Iowa are the best in the business by far. It's a woman named Ann Seltzer who's like the best pollster there is for the state, maybe the country.
And her previous polls have showed like a 28% Trump or die. Like I will vote Trump or nobody vote.
I'll be very interested to see if that number is moved and there still is the potential for someone to consolidate the other voters. Because I agree with you, Love.
It's like probably a lost cause and these folks aren't going to do the right thing and drop out and allow the vote to consolidate, but it'll be interesting to see if that's even an option anymore. Well, I mean, it seems pretty clear from this conversation where everyone stands here.
Just for fun, would anyone like to make an argument that one of these goobers might beat Donald Trump in Iowa and New Hampshire? Let's lay out the fantasy scenario. Anyone?

Sure.

Okay.

I mean, we're never going to know because these are terrible candidates whose campaign

is run by idiots.

Like, they don't seem to want to win.

And most of them are now, honestly, with all seriousness, they're not trying to beat

Donald Trump.

They're trying to be vice president to Donald Trump.

They're trying to maintain whatever role. The reason that- I don't think Haley is.
I think 100%. He is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the one who is the's the red line for how much you subtly attack Donald Trump.
And then if you go over and you like directly attack, she's like now pretty close to, I think he's very upset with her. And he may be, maybe she won't get it.
But what people are trying to navigate now is they're not trying to win. They're trying to manage their loss in a MAGA-dominated Republican Party.
Are they going to be the vice president? Are they going to be someone who is still a member in good standing of that party to run again in 2028, whether Trump wins or loses? Because he can't run for re-election. And so that is why the attack ads on the air are not any of these fucking idiots attacking Donald Trump.
They're attacking each other. DeSantis and Haley have ads on the air attacking each other because they want to split up that 24% between the two of them.
Like, what are they doing? Like, there is a way to try to do this. There is a way to actually do it.
It requires the field to winnow to one person. And that person is probably Nikki Haley among this group.
Because Ron DeSantis has the political skills and charisma of a banana slug. And we should not count on him to do it.
What's a banana slug? He's not that guy. It's like a little Ron DeSantis.
It's like, it's like, it moves on the ground. And so what you would have to do is you would have to consolidate it.
You would have to then, you're one-on-one,

you have to beat him in Iowa.

And then you have to beat him in New Hampshire.

There is no skip Iowa, go to New Hampshire

because you're going to get clobbered in South Carolina.

And the thing about Trump is he's never lost.

And even, according to all the voters,

according to the voters, he didn't lose in 2020.

Stop the steal over here.

Where were you on January 6th? Dan took a shit in Pelosi's office. That's a heel turn.
And so what you would do is if you wanted to actually try to beat Trump, it's one person. They tried to beat him in Iowa.
They make an explicit case at evangelical Christians in Iowa that Trump is not the person who can carry what they want,

who will not win, who will be chaotic.

You would take all that insane shit that most voters,

even Iowa caucus voters are not seeing.

You put it because Fox does actually not cover Trump

like we think they cover Trump.

They do not put his bad moments on air.

As you take those bad moments-

No one does anymore, by the way.

Like, I don't see that.

Like the stuff that we showed, like there's like five Twitter accounts that have all those clips. You don't see them on CNN.
The right-wing media has canceled Trump. They canceled him.
It's outrageous. We never know.
He's being shadowbanned by Fox. My point here is that the odds are that Trump still wins in that, but there is a theoretical path to getting it done, but I don't think any of these candidates,

and certainly the people who work for them

are up to it,

because they are not playing to win.

They are playing to manage their loss.

I think, yeah,

you're right that Haley is the closest,

and again,

I did not have high hopes for her

when she started,

so I'm already wrong.

She's gone farther than I thought she would,

but I looked at the last Des Moines Register poll. It was Trump 42, DeSantis 19, Scott 9, Haley 6, Pence 6, Christy 5, Vivek 4, Burgum 2, Will Hurd 1.
Not with us anymore. Seven points up for grabs.
That's part of error. Yeah, not sure 5, right? So if Haley, in this next poll, just for fun if she took all of pence's support scott's christie's bergham's herds and like half of de santis's she still wouldn't beat trump but she'd be close she'd be within striking distance i think the thing about that matt so i think two things i think one to dan's point like i actually think the most important thing is what's going to happen with deSantis, right? Like whether Scott drops out or Christie drops out, there's just not enough happening there.
Like does DeSantis view it as in his interest to go through it this farce any further? Or does he see some equity in getting out and getting behind? Or getting behind Haley seems inconceivable. Getting behind Trump seems inconceivable.
Who knows? But just getting out to not put himself through the auger of this fucking defeat he's about to experience, that leaves some space for Haley to get higher in the polls. She doesn't need to, in the next round of polls or the round of polls after that, she doesn't need to be beating Trump.
She doesn't need to be faster than the bear. She needs to be faster than the other guys.
You know? Yeah. And then the conversation can change if trump shows some weakness because of exogenous forces like uh the the judge in new york taking all his money or him getting him getting thrown in jail for contempt i also think like i think the scenario where this works is again real long shot here everything that alissa was saying about like all of his legal woes suddenly like bubble up a lot uh.
He says some crazy shit. Joe Biden's approval rating would have to start creeping up because then electability might start becoming a concern for Republicans again.
Right now, part of the problem is, well, if Nikki Haley's argument is I'm the one who can beat Joe Biden, but also Donald Trump is beating Joe Biden in some polls or at least tied with him in polls, then why wouldn't you just take donald trump you know but if joe biden's approval rating started coming up then nikki haley of all these people is probably the best position because if she can somehow beat him in iowa which again then goes to new hampshire and can beat him in new hampshire then unlike any of these other candidates she's positioned really well in south carolina right so then like then you have a thing but like again that's pretty far away. Trump has never faced a real primary loss because even though he lost Iowa, it was so confusing.
It wasn't announced for a long period of time. It was wrapped up in allegations that Ted Cruz ran these robocalls and convinced people not to vote.
And so then he went to New Hampshire and he had a huge victory. South Carolina, huge victory and was off to the races.
And so a a candidate who depends on inevitability and that is a big part of what has been part of trump's rise over the last year is the people have seen he might as well get on board because he's going to win if you shatter the myth of inevitability everyone freaks out something is possible yeah right whether and nikki haley might be someone who would be well positioned in hypothetical general election polls against Biden to seem as electable or more electable than Trump. Because Trump will seem weak if he loses.
There's a huge unexpected loss in Iowa. Yeah, that's right.
Well, we'll see. The first woman present cannot be a Republican.
Dear God, no. Not making any predictions, but I would not.

I'm just putting it out there.

Okay.

When we come back, the executive director of Pro Choice Ohio, Kelly Copeland.

A critical fight for abortion rights, and you guys know I love to talk about abortion, is playing out right here in Ohio, where voters will decide if they want to enshrine abortion rights into the state constitution. Here to talk about abortion rights and combating Republican extremism,

my hero, an icon, Executive Director of Pro-Choice Ohio, Kelly Copeland. Kelly, thank you for coming on the pod.

Thank you.

O-H.

O-H. O-H.
Oh, H.

That's what I'm talking about.

Exactly.

Okay, so not only is she my icon for all of the work she has done for 20 years.

21.

21.

But I heard you're also a cat lady.

Oh, my God.

Just give me the chance to talk about my cat, His Grace. Okay.
And I'm just saying it's National Cat Day, so it is kismet that we are here together. Of course.
Kelly, so for anyone who doesn't know, what's the state of abortion care access in Ohio right now? Is it correct that y'all still have a six-week ban, but the courts have blocked enforcement for now? What is the latest? Yes, that is correct. And what we mean by for now is that days, even hours after the election on November 7th, the state Supreme Court could rule against us and they could put the six-week ban into effect.
I mean, if we don't pass issue one, they will move to put that six-week ban back into effect as it was for 82 days last year, except this time it'll be permanent. I know, it's a bummer.
I'm sorry to bring you down. No, we're here for real talk, okay? This isn't just like a tiptoe through the tulips okay anti-abortion officials purposely

made this whole process as confusing as possible Erin and I covered it a lot on hysteria there was an August special election where Republicans tried their fuckery to change the rules of the ballot initiatives altogether Republicans come out of the woodwork in August it is they did it in Kansas They did it in Ohio, but you prevailed.

Yeah, y'all beat their ass.

So now, that failed. Now there's another vote on the actual Issue 1 initiative.
Let's settle this once and for all. What do Ohioans need to know about Issue 1? Well, first of all, it's a yes on Issue 1 in November.
It was a no in August.

Don't get it confused. But, you know, I think you bring up such an important point because our opponents have used and leveraged the full force of the state government against you, against all of us.
Our taxpayer dollars, they spent $20 million on that special election in August. Taxpayer dollars.
They have messed with the system every step of the way. The AG has put out legal opinions, their campaign propaganda.
The state senate has done the same thing. The attorney general made a summary of the amendment that is filled with bogus information.
And they're doing all of this because they've had 50 years, 50 years since Roe versus Wade to make the case that their agenda to outlaw all abortion in all circumstances is what we should do. And they have failed.
And so that is why they have to do all of this unscrupulous, frankly, legalized cheating to try to subvert your vote. Because the vast majority of Ohioans and the vast majority of Americans believe that we should make our own reproductive health care decisions, not the government.
But these extremists who have taken over Ohio through gerrymandering and through so many other unscrupulous practices, they don't care. They don't want to represent us like my Congresswoman, Amelia Sykes.
They want to rule us. And we're not going to let them, are we? Hell no.
Speaking of unscrupulous, so I went down the rabbit hole. I've been trying to learn for months everything I can learn about Ohio.
Oh, dear. And I know.
I'm going to bring up something that we hate to talk about, but we have to talk about. People have been saying that the amendment would bring back partial birth abortions, which haven't been legal in 15 years.
Can you please explain to us what voting yes on issue one would actually do? Voting yes on issue one would protect access to abortion when it's needed for health care reasons. It would make sure that no Ohioan has to worry that they won't get access to care when their life is in jeopardy.
It makes sure, but it also has the language that says that

there can be restrictions after the point of viability, but those restrictions can't be the

ones that our opponents want. What our opponents want is that when people experience a pregnancy

complication, and think about it, we're talking about very wanted planned pregnancies where

someone gets the worst news, where maybe they've already picked out a name. And our opponents are so heartless that they want to tell those people, too bad.
Too bad if you die. Too bad if you can't make the decisions that are best for you and your family.
Too bad. And, you know, the most serious consequence of issue one failing, and the one that I'm scared the most about, is, you know, when it was in effect, the six-week ban for 82 days, there was an incredible safety net with abortion funds in Ohio and abortion clinics and activists, maybe many of you, where we were able to provide financial and logistical support to get people out, get people care in other states.
But if you're sick, you may not be able to travel. You may not be able to get to Pittsburgh or Detroit or Chicago.
And that is the thing that has been most terrifying. It was the most terrifying thing during the 82 days that the six-week ban was in effect, and it's the most terrifying thing about the possibility of not

passing issue one, and it's frankly the thing I worry about most for my kids. They're young women

in their 20s, and even with all the connections and all the resources I have, I'm so scared that

if when they, when it's their time to plan a family, if they decide to be pregnant in the state of Ohio, that they'll get the care they need. That's why all of us have to work night and day to make sure that not only that doesn't happen to people, but that every pregnant person doesn't have to be afraid.
People came up to me all during those 82 days talking about how they were so scared. They were scared that they wouldn't get the care they need.
They were scared that they might die. That is what they're trying to do to us.
That's how little they care about us. And that's how much we have to fight and love each other.
That's why we have to pass issue one. And to your point, Kelly, that is not hyperbole.
What's happening in Texas, the women who have been forced to go into sepsis because doctors didn't want to put their careers on the line to be able to provide abortion care, this is real. And this is not dramatic.
This is not propaganda. This is happening across the country where abortion has been outlawed.
Yeah. In Ohio, during those 82 days, women who were experiencing miscarriages were sometimes sent away from hospitals, even though they were bleeding, bleeding heavily, filling up, forgive me, one diaper after another with blood.
And they were turned away because the hospitals and the doctors were worried that they would be criminalized if they helped these patients. That should never happen.
I mean, Cleveland is a medical destination. With the Cleveland Clinic, people come from all over the globe to Cleveland.
How could we possibly let them do this to us? We won't.

No, we won't.

So there's been an interesting thing.

The tactic of changing the ballot initiative process

was both shady and quite extreme.

And now those who oppose issue one

are spreading misinformation

and lying about what the ballot initiative does.

Can you give us some examples of this bad faith fuckery? I mean, they want parents to be afraid that they're going to be able to access health care without them, that they'll be able to, you know, change the physicality of their

gender and their sex. They just have made up all of these wild things.
And I always think to myself,

why are you picking on kids? Why are you picking on children who need access to health care?

Why are you lying to parents? We know that parents who had underage daughters who needed an abortion during those 82 days had to take them out of state. What kind of parental rights is that? I mean, issue one will strengthen parental rights because parents will be able to get their daughters the abortion care and other health care they need here at home, as it should be.
So a majority of Americans support abortion, access to abortion. Yeah, like 8 and 10.
Like a lot. Like a lot, a lot.
So why are Republicans so obsessed with our bodies, even though it is a losing issue for them at the ballot box? You know, I've been trying to figure that out. It's hard.
It makes no sense. Well, I mean, that's, you know, I have a deputy director, Jamie Miracle, and she and I have done this work together for 21 years, and she's our lobbyist.
Yes, Jamie Miracle. And she's very scientific, and she's very thoughtful and smart and educated, and she goes into this statehouse with facts.
She's gone into the statehouse with, I mean, we were just talking backstage. We have brought hundreds of abortion storytellers and doctors to the statehouse.
We've been fighting this six-week ban since 2011. This is 13 years that we've fought this fight.
We were the first state in Ohio. And the one thing I know about our opponents is they don't give a shit about us, and they don't give a shit about the facts, because they had it all.
You know, when Governor DeWine, you know, he's out here going, well, you know, we'll find some other path. It's, you know, it's, don't worry, trust us.
Baloney. He knows.
We've had hundreds of people come testify at the statehouse. We have had thousands, 700,000 people sign the petition to put this on the ballot.
Ohioans don't trust you, Governor DeWine, and you've given us reason not to. They don't listen to us.
They don't care about us. And I don't understand why they're such a bunch of bastards.
I really don't. That's a vibe.
Okay. I want to dig a little deeper even more.
The campaign opposing issue one, Protect Women Ohio, recently said that the effort... I don't need protection from you.
Thank you. Protect Women Ohio.
No thank you. They recently said that the effort to get this amendment on the ballot is anti-parent.
We've seen the right more and more try to embrace being the party of parents to justify taking away abortion rights, censoring what kids read, and hate on the LGBTQ community. What does this bill actually mean for parents and families, and how do we combat pro-parent messaging? Well, how many of us are parents? Those are the facts.
Parents and parenthood should be the decision that you make, not the decision the government makes. I mean, that is the bottom line.
Who decides? Is it you and your family or is it the government? Is it Mike DeWine? Is it Frank LaRose? Is it any one of those scumbags? I mean, when we're talking about parental rights, we're talking about the right to live our lives our own way and not have the government tell us how to live our lives. I mean, issue one opponents are anti-parents' rights.
They want to take away your ability to make decisions with your family. They want to, as was those 82 days, they want to make all the decisions for you.
That's why parents had to flee the state with their children who needed access to abortion. How are they somehow the standard bearer for parental rights when they forced families to go through that? Amen.
This important vote has captured the nation's attention, especially as abortion rights prove to be a critical issue in every election since Dobbs. Even, I need to say, even in New York State where I live, the Equal Rights Amendment will be on the ballot in 2024.
Because if a Republican wins, if Donald Trump wins and a national abortion ban were to take place, even New York would need the Equal Rights Amendment to protect women in New York State. So that said, what lessons should those watching across the country learn from how you've organized around issue one? That this is a grassroots movement, that this is a movement fueled by love.
You know, when we dropped off those 420 boxes filled with 700,000 signatures to get on the ballot, the one thing I was so overwhelmed by was the love, the love that so many people put into this work. This is a work of love and community compassion.
This is a grassroots effort. This is something that whether you're a Democrat or an Independent or even a Republican, this could affect you and your family.
This is bigger than politics. This is a deeply personal situation.
It's something that affects generations. I do this work because I know how important it is.
My great-grandmother had 21 children that lived. My grandmother had an illegal abortion to save her life during the Depression.
My mom was an incest survivor. I know from my family how important these decisions are, how important access to abortion, to sex education, to contraception, to fertility treatment, to all of those things are, because it's affected every generation of my family.
And we cannot, in any state, no matter what they throw at us, no matter how long we have to work, I mean, we've worked 13 years to stop the six-week abortion ban.

And people are like, why do you keep doing it?

Because fuck them.

They can't take this from us.

Amen.

You deserve all that applause.

That's right.

Kelly, you helped create a broad coalition that organized getting signatures

and mobilizing voters all across the state.

What would you tell someone listening

who might want to get involved in organizing

but is nervous to start?

Get over it. Get in it.
You know, this stuff matters. And, you know, start somewhere.
Reach out to an organization that's doing the work and say, what can I do? Put me to work. I would like to see you all go to work right now, if you haven't already, by signing up at O-U-R-R dot win.
That's Ohioans United for Reproductive Rights dot win. Because we need to turn out the vote.
And everyone can do something. I had a campaign once where I had a little old Hungarian woman, and she cooked.

And she fed our volunteers.

Oh, my God.

It was such good food.

And, you know, she couldn't walk door to door.

You know, she couldn't hear well.

She couldn't make, you know, the phone calls.

But she could cook.

And that's what she did.

And so there's a role for everybody.

You know, whether you're a graphic designer, whether, you know, you're a power walker, if you like to talk on the phone, if you're a great cook, like reach out to an organization that does the work that you care about and say, put me in coach, send me to work. Kelly Copeland, let me just say, for years, when so of us were saying Roe could be overturned and people called us hysterical.
Oh, yes. The old hysterical.
We're hysterical. Our uteruses are just taking over our brains.
You have been fighting the fight. You have been teaching organizers how to organize.
You have been keeping women safe. And I just want to say, like, truly

from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much. You are a hero.

It is a privilege.

Sativa, Indica, pod save America.

Abortion isn't the only thing on the bout come November 7th. No, we're also talking about ganja, grass, jolly green, the devil's bouquet.

That old giggle smoke.

Baby's bad broccoli.

You know what I'm talking about. Ohioans are voting on the potential legalization of marijuana.
From the smell in here, we already know where you stand. But how good is your memory, you stoners? We're about to find out in a game we're calling reefer madness.
If you think you know a little something about the legal state of the wacky tobacco, Vendelin is out there. Can we get the house lights up? And if you want to answer a question, raise your hand.
Hi, what's your name? Kyle. Kyle? Yeah.
Okay, someone over there knows who you are. Okay, well, that's...
Are you a celebrity in this place? Yeah, you know, I'm famous. Nice.
Kyle's got doxxed. That was cool.
John, you want to kick us off? Sure. Hi, Kyle.
So former Attorney General Jeff Sessions, remember him? said he thought this group of people were, quote,

okay. Hi, Kyle.
So former Attorney General Jeff Sessions, remember him? Said he thought this group of people were, quote,

okay until I found out they smoked pot.

What group was he referring to?

Was it A, the KKK?

B, the Black Panthers?

C, the Branch Davidians at Waco?

D, Black Lives Matter. Branch Davidians.
The answer is A, the KKK. The worst answer possible, Kyle.
So Sessions later tried to walk back his comment made in the early 80s saying he was joking. But it and similar comments cost him a federal judgeship in 1986.
But then he ended up being attorney general. So that's that.
Wild. Wild.
Who's next? Somebody raise your hand. This person did.
Hi, what's your name? Natalie. Madeline? Natalie.
Natalie? Yes. Natalie.
Are you from Cleveland, Natalie? No, I'm not. Okay.
Alyssa's got a question for you. Okay, are you ready? Which future president declared on the campaign trail, quote, leading medical researchers are coming to the conclusion that marijuana, pot, grass, whatever you want to call it, is probably the most dangerous drug in the United States.
And we haven't begun to find out all of the ill effects, but they are permanent ill effects.

Oh, I just have I don't get choices.

No, no, you have to just like let me tell you something okay this one's pretty straightforward drugs bad reggae there you go nice good next hi what's your name sarah sarah as of 2022 marijuana fully illegal, meaning there was no dispensation for any use in which four states? That's right. Just say four states.
Four states where there's no dispensing? There's nothing. They've got nothing.
Wow. No multiple choice? No multiple choice.
Okay. I mean, I can do it here locked which of these is not one of the states sarah wyoming idaho kansas oklahoma south carolina south carolina wrong it's wyoming idaho kansas and south carolina all four states have had multiple measures South Carolina Wrong It's Wyoming, Idaho, Kansas and South Carolina

All four states have had multiple measures

But they were

They didn't pass

They couldn't get them done

Bet they're very tightly wound

Could use some weed in some of those places

Hi what's your name?

Adam

Are you from Cleveland?

Not originally

Okay

Tommy

Okay Adam Thank Adam. Are you from Cleveland? Not originally.
Okay.

Tommy?

Okay, Adam.

This future president said he never violated America's drug laws

until he admitted he tried marijuana while overseas.

Marijuana?

This is a Republican question in that you have no choices. You just have to say it.
That's a good joke. Thank you.
I winged that one because the joke writers didn't give me options. Oh, sorry.
My symbols to crash together for you, Tommy. Should I refresh on your drink, perhaps? I'd love that.
Adam, do you have a guess? I want to say Clinton. I know it's wrong.
I'm going to go, oh, shit. Trust yourself.
Trust yourself, Adam. Nice.
Answer, Bill Clinton in 1992 said he didn't like it and didn't inhale. Come on, man.
Yes, he did. Come on, Bill.
I actually, like, I didn't realize the details of that story, which is that he was asked about drug use and said, I never violated the drug laws of this country. And then when someone said, well, what about when you were in college at Oxford? He goes like, yeah, I tried weed.
And then there was a whole news cycle about how, like, it's not about the drugs. It's about his slickness.
And it's like, what an era where, like, that was, like, potentially disqualified. It was kinder, gentler time.
I mean, were they wrong? I guess his slickness did prove to be an issue over the long run. That's what I'm saying.
Famously. Still too soon.
Who's up next? Hi, I'm Deb. Okay, Deb.
Are you ready? Yes. This is not multiple choice.

Okay.

Okay.

Meanwhile, which other president-to-be said this on his campaign trail?

When I was a kid, I inhaled.

That was the point.

That was Barack Obama, wasn't it?

Yes.

That is correct.

Nice.

Talk about a man who can read the room.

All right.

Who do we got?

Hi, my name's Claire.

Hi, Claire.

Hello.

All right.

This former Speaker of the House

sponsored legislation

that would have made

bringing two ounces of marijuana

into the country

punishable by life imprisonment

Thank you. sponsored legislation that would have made bringing two ounces of marijuana into the country punishable by life imprisonment,

or if it's the second offense, the death penalty.

What?

What?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mike Johnson?

Not Mike Johnson.

But good guess.

I should have started with that. Gingrich is my good guess.
Newt Gingrich. It was Newt Gingrich.
Wow. That is crazy.
That man was trouble. That was the 90s.
1996. 96.
Marijuana, you're dead. Right? Contract of America was 94? Yeah.
Yeah. College.
Country's nuts. Nuts.
Hasn't stopped. Got worse.
Who's next? Hi, I'm Jesse. Hi, Jesse.
Are you from Cleveland? I'm from Kent. That's cool.
All right. I guess that's close.
Based on the context clues. Good job.
Okay, you ready?

I am.

Okay.

This is not multiple choice.

When asked if he ever tried marijuana,

this former Speaker of the House said, quote,

that was a sign we were alive

and in graduate school in that era.

McCarthy?

I mean...

Someone said... Not a fan of Hinson Kent? It's Gingrich.
Newt Gingrich. McCarthy? I mean...

Someone said...

Not a fan of Hinson Kent?

It's Gingrich.

Newt Gingrich.

Sorry, that was so unfair to you.

I would have guessed Pelosi.

I would have said Boehner.

Someone said Boehner.

Boehner likes weed.

Boehner's a weed lobbyist now.

Who doesn't now?

Pfeiffer.

All right, who's up next?

Fucking narc Pfeiffer. Alright, who's up next? Fucking Narc Pfeiffer.

Hi.

Mike Johnson of the group. Every group has a Mike Johnson and if you don't know who the Mike Johnson is in your group, look in the fucking mirror, pal.
I can't see.

Is anyone from Cleveland?

We have somebody here.

What's your name?

Zach.

Zach.

Over here, John.

Zach's over there. To your right? No, to your right.
There you are. There you go.
A meta-analysis of 36 papers dating from 2013 to 2021 published this year found that legalization of marijuana lowered the rates of A, suicide, B, binge drinking, C, traffic fatalities, D, cannabis use in teenagers, E, all of the above, or F, all of the above,

except for the teen thing.

I'm going to go with E, all of the above.

All of the above.

It turns out that when weed is legalized and dispensed from an official location, it's

harder for teens to get their hands on.

It's something to think about.

It's something to think about. Hi, what's harder for teens to get their hands on.
That's something to think about. That's something to think about.

Hi, what's your name?

Megan.

Hi, Megan.

Are you from Cleveland, Megan?

Ish.

You are?

Ish.

Ish.

Ish.

You can't kind of be from somewhere.

Not from there, but I live there.

Where are you from?

Northern Michigan, but I... Michigan, oh my gosh.
Wow, wow. Wait, let's not boo Megan, people.
Is that Meg Harbaugh? I think I... We know each other, right? Just kidding.
Which state governor said of marijuana in 2007, quote, that's not a drug, that's a leaf. Adding in another interview, I smoke the marijuana, I always inhale.
There's a hint inside of it for someone who would say, the marijuana. Think about someone saying it in a kind of action hero type of way.
Would you say it's Nikki Haley? What? Arnold Schwarzenegger. Yes.
Oh, yeah, they all did. Dan, take us home.
Who we got? Hello, my name is Lex, and I love you all. Thank you.
But Lex, I have to ask.

I literally live in the city of Cleveland.

I was like, sorry.

Winner, winner.

Finally, a local. Thank you, Lex.

Okay, here we go.

If November's weed proposal passes here,

Ohio would become what number state out of our 50 nifty

to legalize recreational usage?

Well, I spent a decade in Colorado, so I can't do math anymore. You're not making a case for the initiative.
Fair. Let's go

with 26. So close.
24. But pretty good.
Pretty good. But that is damn pretty good.

I need tags on where it's legal.

What?

Who was talking?

Oh, sorry.

What did you say?

No, no.

We're good.

Oh, come on.

Let me talk to Alyssa.

She's my favorite.

Yo.

Lex, you've lost the game.

But you've won my heart.

Here in Cleveland, the greatest city in the world.

John, in the show.

That's our show for tonight.

Thank you to Amelia Sykes.

Thank you to Kelly Copeland.

Thanks to Alyssa Mastromonaco.

Thank you, Cleveland.

And all the other places you came from. Our associate producer is Farrah Safari.
Writing support from Hallie Kiefer. Reed Cherlin is our executive producer.
The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.
Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroat is our head of production.
Andy Taft is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman, David Tolles, Kirill Pellaviv, and Molly Lobel.

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