Ohio's Big Choice (Live from Cleveland!)

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Speaker 6 See Mintmobile.com. If you enjoy Pod Save America, check out another great show from our friend Brian Tyler Cohen.
The show is no lie with Brian Tyler Cohen.

Speaker 6 He took the formula that's gotten him almost 2 billion views on YouTube and put it into a once-weekly show where he discusses the top story of the week and interviews the biggest players in the world of politics, including Pete Budigedge, John Fetterman, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, Rachel Maddow, Jamie Raskin, and even President Biden himself.

Speaker 14 And me. I've been on Brian's show.
He's a good friend of mine.

Speaker 6 Yes, and he also hazes Tommy often.

Speaker 14 Yeah, he did. It does hurt my feelings a lot.

Speaker 6 He's really smart. He's really smart.
We love Brian. And it's not the only reason you should tune in.
Oh, here it is.

Speaker 6 The truth is that our very own Tommy is vying to unseat Dan as Cricket's YouTube star. Yeah.

Speaker 6 And so since Tommy co-hosts a YouTube show with Brian, Tommy wants us to do everything in our power to elevate Brian so he can ride his coattails to stardom. Who wrote this? Who wrote this copy?

Speaker 6 And we love Tommy, so we want to help him. Certainly not.
If you also love Tommy, then show that love by subscribing to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. Did Brian write that? I bet he did.

Speaker 6 It's too good for him not to have. You won't be disappointed.
Again, that's No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen.

Speaker 6 What's up, Cleveland?

Speaker 6 Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favreau.

Speaker 15 I'm Alyssa Mastramonico.

Speaker 16 I'm John Lovett.

Speaker 17 I'm Tommy Vitor.

Speaker 6 I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

Speaker 6 We have an outstanding show for you tonight. Congresswoman Amelia Sykes is here.

Speaker 6 The executive director of Pro-Choice Ohio, Kelly Copeland, is here.

Speaker 6 And we are so lucky to be joined by our pal, Alyssa Mascramonico, the co-host of Hysteria.

Speaker 15 So excited to be here.

Speaker 6 We're so glad to have you. All right, let's get to the news.

Speaker 6 So the war in Gaza has obviously become a big political issue here in the United States, obviously.

Speaker 6 As Israel began its ground invasion over the weekend, the GOP presidential candidates spoke at the Republican Jewish Coalition in Las Vegas.

Speaker 6 Vivek Ramaswamy told the crowd he'd love nothing more than for Israel to put the heads of Hamas leaders on stakes and line them up.

Speaker 6 Nikki Haley hit Trump the hardest for when he called Hezbollah smart and criticized Netanyahu.

Speaker 6 And then Trump got up, ignored all of them, and got the best reception of the day.

Speaker 18 The experts said our pro-Israel policies would produce terror and chaos, but I knew the opposite was was true. That turned out to be right.

Speaker 18 Every single life that is lost in this conflict is on the shoulders of Hamas and Hamas alone, Samas alone, and I think you have to really add in the word Iran. Think of this.
We

Speaker 18 immediately announce it. We're giving Hamas one hundred million dollars.
We're going to give it to them into Gaza, but they take it one hundred percent of it.

Speaker 18 They don't take ninety percent, they take one hundred percent. The Biden State Department, which is admitting colossal amounts of jihadists into our communities and campuses and our refugee programs.

Speaker 18 That's why you see all of these big demonstrations in New York and Chicago. Nobody can believe what's taking place.
They're letting them in at levels that nobody's ever seen before.

Speaker 18 We cannot allow that to happen, and we don't want to be like Europe with jihads on every corner. I will cancel the student visas of Hamas and sympathizers on college campuses.

Speaker 18 The college campuses are being taken over.

Speaker 18 And all of the resident aliens who joined in the pro-jihadist protest this month, nobody's ever seen anything like it. Come 2025, we will find you and we will deport you.
We will deport you.

Speaker 6 A chicken in every pot and a jihad on every corner.

Speaker 16 I have to say, look, I don't like Trump, but I think that Oberlin-Hamas exchange program was a mistake.

Speaker 6 Tommy,

Speaker 6 would there be peace in the Middle East and calm in the streets if Trump were president right now?

Speaker 14 Yeah, I'm really never happier that he's no longer president than when there is some sort of global crisis or war breaking out or conflagration. You can imagine him in the situation room,

Speaker 14 refuses to turn off Fox and Friends. You know, he's retweeting cat turd or whatever he does.

Speaker 14 I would argue that, despite what President Trump said there, that his policies actually helped get us to where we are today and made things worse. That's because,

Speaker 14 like, starting at the top, like, Hamas is an evil, it's a terrorist organization. They have a founding charter.
You can read it. It's anti-Semitic.
It is designed to eliminate the state of Israel.

Speaker 14 And the terror attack on October 7th was unjustifiable and evil and indefensible. And it's completely understandable that the Israelis would respond with military and intelligence operations first.

Speaker 14 But I do think long term, to actually eradicate Hamas, you have to get to the root cause of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Speaker 14 You have to improve the life for Palestinians, and you have to get back into a process of negotiations that can lead to a two-state solution in a Palestinian state.

Speaker 14 And so, what Trump did in office with his dumbass son-in-law, Jared Kushner, was he empowered Hamas by systematically undercutting the Palestinian Palestinian Authority?

Speaker 14 You have basically two power centers for the Palestinian people. There's Hamas and the PA, the Palestinian Authority.
And Trump cut aid to the Palestinian Authority.

Speaker 14 He undercut the PA in negotiations on, you know, for final status negotiations about a two-state solution by recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and moving our embassy there.

Speaker 14 And then his entire focus started to be on the Abraham Accords by the end of the administration, which are these deals between Israel and basically a bunch of sort of regional autocrats like the UAE or Sudan to normalize relations with Israel after given major incentives from the United States.

Speaker 14 Often it was weapon systems, et cetera.

Speaker 14 Now, like the normalization, the Abraham Accords and the normalization deals are not bad in and of themselves, but they made the Palestinian leadership and the Palestinian people felt like they were left behind and like they were an afterthought and desperate and hopeless and like there was no way out of Gaza, or that

Speaker 14 their future was life under military occupation in the West Bank without hope for a Palestinian state. And so

Speaker 14 that kind of

Speaker 14 desperation and hopelessness is fuel for an organization like Hamas that can point to the Palestinian Authority and say, look at them, they are feckless, they are corrupt, they've not delivered a thing for you through this political track.

Speaker 14 Come to our side, we'll take direct action.

Speaker 14 And that can be a powerful message in that kind of situation. So we need to, going forward, make sure that that lunatic is never the president of the United States again.
But also, Joe Biden,

Speaker 14 I think the Biden administration needs to focus much more on getting the Israelis and Palestinians into a room, back into negotiations, and I think less on the kind of Abraham Accord agreements with the Saudis that they've been more focused on.

Speaker 6 I mean, it feels like we could be at war with Iran right now if he was president since he was saying, and I would throw the word Iran in there too, which is something you want to say off the cuff, I'm sure.

Speaker 14 Yeah, he's like, I'm going to say one word, Hamas, and Iran.

Speaker 6 Also, if he was president, I think we could very well be seeing like crackdowns and deportations on campuses right now because he's clear, we've seen him do this with protests before.

Speaker 6 Like, I don't think he would be handling that so well.

Speaker 21 The free speech warriors in the Republican Party, seriously, Johnny?

Speaker 6 So, Alyssa, some some of the other Republican candidates, Nikki Haley did it during that event, clearly thought that they would be able to make an issue out of Trump's Hezbollah praise and his netanyahu criticism.

Speaker 6 Judging by that crowd of Jewish Republicans and all the polls, they seem to have failed. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 6 You guys.

Speaker 15 Clearly, the Republicans have the memory of goldfishes.

Speaker 15 They don't care. This is, you know, like Tommy said, Trump did some things that would make them happy when he was president.
He moved the embassy to Jerusalem, things like that. But mostly,

Speaker 15 this is like the first time he was really in a room back to back, you know, with all, which we would call a cattle call, like of all the other candidates.

Speaker 15 And the truth of the matter is, like, his base shows up. Like, they want to hear what he has to say.
They almost don't care what he's saying. They just want to hear him talk.

Speaker 15 And I mean, also on the one hand, Nikki Haley, girl,

Speaker 15 your qualification being like, as president, I would not compliment Hezbollah is like not exactly what I'm looking for.

Speaker 6 It's like, I hope so.

Speaker 15 It seems like a low barrier to entry.

Speaker 15 But look, I mean, this is the same man that told people during a global pandemic to inject bleach into their arms. And people are like, you know what? Let's give him another chance.

Speaker 15 And so it didn't really surprise me, though I have to tell you, watching that clip, I was like, I did not miss him. That is that level of stupidity to be confronted with daily.

Speaker 6 He's sort of been hiding out. Like, we haven't been seeing a lot of him.
I think when people see more of him, they're going to be like, oh, yeah, that was.

Speaker 6 I also think, like, he, he did his, he did his penance. He praised BB after he made those comments.
But he's not super interested in the standing with Israel part.

Speaker 6 What he's much more interested in is scaring Americans into thinking that dark-skinned foreigners are coming to cause us harm. Totally.
And he's the only one who can protect us.

Speaker 15 But like, also, Republicans, do you not remember when he was still on Twitter and hate tweeting Kim Jong-un?

Speaker 15 I mean, like, this is not someone we want to be president when the stakes are as high as they are.

Speaker 15 And so it was like very sad to see him get the applause that he got, but it's not exactly like he was confronted with other dynamic competitors.

Speaker 6 That is also true.

Speaker 6 Dan, the White House responded to Trump's promise to reinstate an expanded Muslim ban with a statement that said, opposing hate is more pressing now than ever as American Muslims and Arab Americans increasingly find themselves the targets of appalling smears and heartbreaking violence.

Speaker 6 So Biden's obviously the president who repealed Trump's Muslim ban. Why do you think they also wanted to weigh in on those specific comments?

Speaker 6 I think

Speaker 21 Biden is obviously torn.

Speaker 21 The Democratic Party is very divided on Joe Biden's response to Israel, what it means, whether he's doing enough or saying enough or expressing enough empathy for the people suffering in Gaza.

Speaker 21 And also responding to we are having across the board, there is a raft of anti-Semitic commentary and rhetoric and attacks in this country. There is,

Speaker 21 you know, there has been anti-Muslim attacks and rhetoric in this country. And Biden is right to speak out about

Speaker 21 what Trump wants to do is to weaponize the fear that is happening here for political gain to call it out for it.

Speaker 21 And it is also notable that Trump's Muslim ban was one of his most unpopular policies that he put in place and to remind people that that is what he would do.

Speaker 21 He's another person who would divide in this very dangerous time.

Speaker 6 Yeah. And I think also it's to sort of send a message that like, yes, Biden repealed the Muslim ban.
Biden will continue to speak out against Islamophobia.

Speaker 6 And by the way, in 2025, it's either going to probably be Donald Trump or Joe Biden as president. And if it's Donald Trump, this is what you're going to get from him.
Love it.

Speaker 6 So here's a, to Dan's point about the Democratic Party divide. Here's a pair of fun headlines from the New York Times over the weekend.

Speaker 6 The first is Democrats splinter over Israel as the young, diverse left rages at Biden. And the second is, Primary battles brew over progressive Democrats' stances on Israel.

Speaker 6 So this seems like a split that's unfortunately only going to get worse as the death toll rises in Gaza. How do you think President Biden is handling the issue?

Speaker 6 How about that question?

Speaker 6 I give love it the hard one.

Speaker 6 I got this.

Speaker 16 So first just a caveat that

Speaker 16 no, I'm not the person who understands how Joe Biden should handle the delicate strategic and diplomatic and political challenge of Israel and Palestine at a moment of a generational crisis.

Speaker 6 Why not?

Speaker 6 Let's work it on the game.

Speaker 16 Because we're touring, I've been watching a lot of Survivor.

Speaker 16 So just everyone heard that caveat?

Speaker 6 Great.

Speaker 16 I feel like it is, I think, important that we're seeing a little bit more of Trump as just a bit of a refresher as to where the base of the party is on this issue, having Vivek out there saying these sort of bloodthirsty things, having Trump out there with this

Speaker 16 Islamophobia,

Speaker 16 sort of complimenting what people like Lindsey Graham have already been out there saying, kind of representing what the right actually believes, which is sort of an unfettered approval of an unrestrained response by Israel.

Speaker 16 On the other hand, you have, I think,

Speaker 16 a lot of anti-Semitism, a lot of anti-Israel propaganda, a lot of misinformation, meant to, I think, rightly kind of speak to the concerns and and pain and fear

Speaker 16 that people have legitimately for the Palestinians, while at the same time, I think, alienating

Speaker 16 the vast group of people in the middle who believe in both the humanitarian responsibility that we as, like that the world has to the people of Gaza, as well as understanding and having empathy for Israel and the crisis it's in, the losses it's experienced.

Speaker 16 So I think there's two things. I think

Speaker 16 in word and in deed, look, the challenge right is we don't know the difference between what Joe Biden says publicly, what the administration says publicly, what the administration is doing to pressure Israel behind the scenes.

Speaker 16 But that being said,

Speaker 16 I think that there is more Joe Biden could be doing to speak to that growing

Speaker 16 progressive

Speaker 16 young part of the party that truly doesn't understand

Speaker 16 why the United States isn't putting more pressure on Israel. And I think that that calls for

Speaker 16 actions, but also calls for words and just speaking to that concern directly and explaining more directly, A, what we can be doing to protect people in Gaza, and B, why

Speaker 16 part of this deeper problem is not just what Israel is doing to remove Hamas, but also the failures on the part of Hamas, on the part of the Palestinian Authority, the failures that have happened inside of Gaza, inside of the leadership of,

Speaker 16 on behalf of the Palestinians that has helped lead to this moment. On the other side of it, you know, I sometimes feel like this is,

Speaker 16 I understand why this is off-putting to people when you say, hey, like, you know, you need to say that you need to denounce Hamas, you need to respect, you need to say that you understand that Israel has a right to defend itself, you need to talk about the fact that Israel has a right to exist, you need to reject the kind of ahistorical, kind of academic, lefty online jargon, like settler colonialism.

Speaker 16 You need to speak out when people say things like from the river to the sea, which is terrifying to people that follow it to its logical implication, which is that there cannot be a state of Israel, that there's value to denouncing that because it's like, why are you calling for this kind of denunciation?

Speaker 16 The crisis right now is that they're bombarding Gaza, that thousands of people in Gaza are dying. And

Speaker 16 I appreciate that.

Speaker 16 I hear that.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 16 what I see is that I think the most effective way

Speaker 16 to advocate on behalf of the humanitarian needs of the people of Gaza, the safety and lives of the people in Gaza, is being part of this big coalition that understands that the future of Israelis and the future of Palestinians are linked and that you need people that believe in a free and safe

Speaker 16 democratic and Jewish state of Israel to demonstrate that they believe in the humanity of people in Gaza. But you also,

Speaker 16 those people that are advocating and believe in Israel

Speaker 16 want to be part of a coalition with the people advocating on behalf of Gazans

Speaker 16 that

Speaker 16 your advocacy isn't at the expense of Israel's right to exist to the safety and freedom of people in Israel as well. And I feel like that is a big group of people.

Speaker 16 That is sort of the big

Speaker 16 middle between the very far right, which does not give, that basically wants Israel to level Gaza and the very far left that doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist.

Speaker 6 No, I mean, look,

Speaker 6 I think if the progressive movement is about anything, it's about solidarity.

Speaker 6 And I think that it is possible and important to hold two ideas in your head at the same time, which is you can want Joe Biden to do more to pressure Bibi to go after Hamas in a way that results in fewer civilian casualties, a lot less suffering, and a war that doesn't spread throughout the Middle East.

Speaker 6 And if Biden doesn't think that's possible or wise, he needs to tell the American people why.

Speaker 6 And then I think Jewish Democrats who are upset with progressives, like you said, want them to be more forceful, not only in their denunciation of Hamas, but also in their denunciation of the disgusting anti-Semitism that we're seeing here in the U.S.

Speaker 6 and all over the world. And I don't think those two,

Speaker 6 I think you can advocate for both those things. I don't think they should be in conflict at all.

Speaker 16 Yeah, and yeah, just to say it simply, it's like,

Speaker 16 that if you care about advocating for humanitarian aid and relief for people in Gaza, you are in a much better position to do that when you're advocating it as part of a big coalition that recognizes

Speaker 16 that

Speaker 16 whatever I've said already. Move on.

Speaker 6 Tommy, how many more weeks are we going to talk about this?

Speaker 16 I guess forever.

Speaker 6 Tommy, it does seem like every day more and more progressives are calling for a ceasefire.

Speaker 6 You have, I saw you on Twitter. I also see you in person, but I saw you on Twitter.

Speaker 6 That's the public. Why do you think the Biden administration isn't there yet for people who are just wondering, like, what's going on?

Speaker 26 Yeah.

Speaker 14 So President Biden and a lot of people around him think that the better path in terms of actually influencing Bibi Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, and getting them to do what they want, is to back him publicly and then fight with him privately.

Speaker 14 I've been in meetings with these same people giving the same advice when it was President Obama.

Speaker 14 They say, hug Bibi. In Joe Biden's case to Israel, that physically happened, but then

Speaker 14 tell them what you really think in private. And I'll just be honest, I fucking hate that.
I hate that philosophy. I hate that approach for a couple of reasons.
One,

Speaker 14 I don't trust Bibi Netanyahu. I don't think he's a good leader.
I don't think he's an honest person. And I don't think we should outsource decision-making to him.

Speaker 14 Two, if you only speak your mind privately, then you forego your ability to define

Speaker 14 the narrative and tell the world what you think. And if Biden has concerns about the way the Netanyahu government is conducting this operation in Gaza, the world is not hearing it.

Speaker 14 The world thinks that everything the Israeli government does is backed 100% by the United States.

Speaker 14 And so, in fairness to Joe Biden, I think that His trip to Israel and his pressure from him personally and from his team is is part of the reason that the Israeli government did not launch a preemptive strike on Hezbollah and Lebanon, which would have been an unmitigated disaster.

Speaker 14 It would be opening a second front in this war is about the scariest thing I could imagine. But if the U.S.

Speaker 14 has been pressuring Israel privately to allow more aid into Gaza, to dial back the airstrikes, to forego a ground invasion, then they have failed and seemingly failed catastrophically.

Speaker 14 And so, listen, like right, again, I'm a podcaster, right? Like I don't, I'm not living next to Hamas. I'm sitting here in Los Angeles, a comfortable life.
But I fully understand that right after

Speaker 14 the terrorist attack on the 7th of October, that the Israeli Defense Forces had to target Hamas. They had to take out the rockets that were still being launched into Israel.

Speaker 14 days and days later, they had to go after their leadership. They had to try to disrupt any kind of Hamas operation that they could could find to rescue hostages in those early days.

Speaker 14 But now we're sitting here three plus weeks later, 7,000 airstrikes later in an area half the size of New York City.

Speaker 14 The latest casualty count on Sunday night was 8,000 people are dead, many of them children. And so what I would like to see is at least some sort of, at least a temporary ceasefire.

Speaker 14 Some of the timeframes have been floated, let's say five days. You get humanitarian aid into Gaza.
You begin negotiations around getting back hostages.

Speaker 14 I think unfortunately, if history proves to be true now, that we're going to get hostages back, the Israelis will get hostages back through some sort of prisoner release and swap.

Speaker 14 That's what happened when Hamas took a soldier named Gilad Shalit, held him for five years, and the Israelis ended up having to trade, let a thousand prisoners out of Israeli prisons to get back Shalit.

Speaker 14 I think something similar might happen here. But, you know, like

Speaker 14 big, big picture.

Speaker 14 I don't want to see Israel get drawn into a bigger quagmire ground invasion, a broader regional conflict that includes Hezbollah, which has a lot better arms and 10 times the funding from Iran and would just be a very, very scary proposition.

Speaker 14 You know, and I think Joe Biden went over to Israel and was like, you know, don't repeat the mistakes we made after 9-11. Don't react out of vengeance.
Let's think about this.

Speaker 14 I think that's very good advice.

Speaker 14 And I'm hoping that some sort of like temporary pause or ceasefire could lead to a more measured response because the Israeli government is saying, like, this is going to take a long time.

Speaker 14 This will be a months-long process. It's a long campaign.
So, you know, let's get relief in to these people who desperately need it now.

Speaker 6 I think Tommy fixed it. So,

Speaker 14 come to Cleveland, they said to Alyssa.

Speaker 17 We'll have a light conversation about politics.

Speaker 15 These guys know that I was like, here's the thing. I'm going to be super honest with you guys.

Speaker 15 I feel

Speaker 15 very self-conscious when I'm put in a position to talk about something that I don't know a ton about. And I wish more people were like me a little bit.
And

Speaker 27 I think in general, we all wish more people were like you.

Speaker 15 I just, it's like, here's what I would just say. This is my two cents.

Speaker 15 Protesting

Speaker 15 what the Israeli government is doing is fine.

Speaker 15 It's what this country is built on. You can protest and it's freedom of speech, but for God's sake, do it peacefully.

Speaker 15 Don't do it in a way that makes people who are already afraid and living in a fear that you possibly can't understand feel more fearful. And I think that that's just so important.

Speaker 15 On social media, you know, I was telling these guys, I have gone down such a spiral because I see something and I have to fact-check it like five different times because I want to make sure whatever I'm reading is true.

Speaker 15 And so I would just say that I think so many people have good intentions and just really think about, you know, when you are talking to someone about this issue, you know, it may be an intellectual exercise for you, but it may be them revealing to you their deepest pain.

Speaker 15 And so don't discount that by trying to win an argument.

Speaker 6 That is a

Speaker 6 stand on.

Speaker 6 Okay, we'll be right back.

Speaker 16 Now it's time for OK Stop.

Speaker 16 You know how it works.

Speaker 6 We roll a clip, we stop.

Speaker 16 We comment as we go.

Speaker 16 This week on OK Stop, Speaker of the House, House, Mike Johnson.

Speaker 16 You know him, you love him. Big fans.

Speaker 6 Got some big Johnson fans.

Speaker 16 We've already forgotten who he is.

Speaker 16 But before we forgot him, before we knew him, before he was a member of Congress, he was a candidate. And when he was a candidate, he gave a sermon where he laid out his philosophy,

Speaker 16 what he believed

Speaker 19 about

Speaker 6 the culture,

Speaker 16 and also what he believed about certain gigantic boats

Speaker 16 and what could have been on them.

Speaker 16 And it's a lot more than you'd think.

Speaker 6 Let's roll the clip.

Speaker 26 Some of y'all are around in the late 60s. You remember what that was about?

Speaker 26 The countercultural revolution, Woodstock and drugs, and peace, and free love, and all that, but more about the undermining of the foundations of religion and morality.

Speaker 26 Because if you remember, in the late 60s, we invented things like no-fault divorce laws. We invented the sexual revolution.
We invented radical feminism. We invented legalized abortion in 1975.

Speaker 26 Okay, stop. I mean.

Speaker 6 Radical feminism.

Speaker 15 Oh my God, whatever will we do? We invented no-fault divorce.

Speaker 23 Could you imagine?

Speaker 6 Invented like we're like Edison cranking things out in a lab. I was like.
Also, who's we?

Speaker 15 Getting a patent for no-fault divorce.

Speaker 21 Yeah, what role did Mike Johnson play, we?

Speaker 14 It's real don't threaten me with a good time list, you know?

Speaker 16 It's like, look, everything went downhill after Maude terminated that pregnancy.

Speaker 16 Sure, she was 47, but she and Walter could have made it work.

Speaker 16 Did that work for anybody?

Speaker 6 And me, I love Maude.

Speaker 16 Do people in Cleveland know about Maude?

Speaker 15 Maud was the first woman in prime time to get an abortion. Absolutely.

Speaker 6 Welcome.

Speaker 15 And that's not on my cards. I knew that.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 26 We know that we're living in a completely amoral society. And so people say, how can a young person go into their schoolhouse and open fire on their classmates?

Speaker 26 Because we've taught a whole generation, a couple of generations now of Americans, that there is no right and wrong.

Speaker 26 That it's about the survival of the fittest, and you evolve from the primordial slime. Okay,

Speaker 6 fuck the primordial slime? Look,

Speaker 16 I was going to become a pastor.

Speaker 16 But now that I know about the voyage of the beagle,

Speaker 16 I'm going to kill a volleyball team.

Speaker 16 You see, the finches

Speaker 16 had different, different, their noses.

Speaker 16 The finches with the longer beaks survived. Now I'm going to kill everybody.

Speaker 16 He drew little pictures in his little book of all the different animals you saw in the Galapagos.

Speaker 16 And ever since I have this image in my mind.

Speaker 6 Sorry.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 26 You can't read the words, you're real small, but if you drive around the state of Kentucky all over the interstate, you'll see this billboard. Answers in Genesis, put it up.
Okay,

Speaker 16 so just so people understand for reference.

Speaker 16 Mike Johnson is showing a billboard for Ark Encounter, a creationist museum in Kentucky, dedicated to the Great Flood and the construction of Noah's Ark as real historical, verifiable events, including explaining how they got all the dinosaurs on there.

Speaker 6 A lot of dinos on the ark, guys. A lot of dinos on the ark.
It's a big boat.

Speaker 16 And there was room for all the dinosaurs on there.

Speaker 16 And that's so important.

Speaker 6 So important. All right, let's continue.

Speaker 26 To all of our liberal and tolerant friends, thank God you can't sink this ship. Okay, stop.

Speaker 6 That was a laugh line. I don't understand.

Speaker 16 So the billboard is a picture of Noah's Ark, and it says, to all our liberal, intolerant friends, thank God you couldn't sink this ship.

Speaker 16 I don't even understand what it means.

Speaker 6 I know. I don't understand.

Speaker 16 Like, of course,

Speaker 16 we didn't exist.

Speaker 6 We're modern day people.

Speaker 6 Nor would we have wanted to sink the ship

Speaker 6 if it had existed.

Speaker 17 Can you sink a metaphor?

Speaker 6 I don't know.

Speaker 6 Also,

Speaker 14 I'm really struggling with this band setup in the back because you know just the most cringy creed shit is about to get played.

Speaker 21 It's like, what happened immediately prior or immediately after this sermon? Yeah, it was.

Speaker 16 I think this was the big event of the day.

Speaker 14 Here's the keynote.

Speaker 16 I just think it doesn't make sense. Like,

Speaker 16 hey, liberals, we wouldn't let you on this ship then, you wouldn't get on now. That's at least something.

Speaker 16 Yeah. You know, hey, God flooded us.

Speaker 6 But maybe not historically accurate.

Speaker 21 But I've also seen Jurassic World, and you don't get on the boat with the dinosaurs.

Speaker 17 And the dinosaurs can swim.

Speaker 6 They're in the water, too. That's the other part.
Well, they didn't get it. Guys, we've crafted code here.
I'm telling you, I could talk about it. You're getting to the bottom of the ark.

Speaker 6 Look, I know I brought it up.

Speaker 16 I just, what I really don't understand, I still, like, the arc is not even the most confusing part to me. The most confusing part to me is the first couple years post-ark.

Speaker 16 That's just, I don't get it. I don't know what they're eating.

Speaker 16 Were there extra species just to be consumed? Because it's like, if you're going to, because these are, these are predators that need to eat other birds.

Speaker 16 And so it's like, are there birds we don't have? Because those are the ones.

Speaker 6 There's a big hole in the plot line in the Bible between the.

Speaker 6 I'll tell you suddenly you're just like whoa did I miss a page? Yeah, so you're like where the white walkers go this doesn't make any sense anymore

Speaker 16 Just telling you do you think you brought all the freshwater fish on the boat

Speaker 6 That's a great question. That's interesting.

Speaker 21 Was it all freshwater?

Speaker 16 Just two of each fish what couldn't

Speaker 15 freshwater you guys I feel like I missed a lot in fourth grade history.

Speaker 23 Yeah.

Speaker 6 If we ever did an interview with Mike Johnson, these are the only questions.

Speaker 6 Nothing about

Speaker 6 the supplemental government funding or like his views on whatever, I'd just be like, we got to talk about the arc. I just want to talk about the arc.

Speaker 6 Vintage Tim Russer, just like follow-up after follow-up after follow-up.

Speaker 6 Picture up on the screen.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 6 So, so, no, but this is neat.

Speaker 26 Do y'all watch the New Year's Eve, rocking New Year's Eve with the ball drops for New Year's Eve? So, Kelly and I put the kids to bed. We were watching it.

Speaker 26 And this year, and Ryan Seacrest is standing there in Times Square. And I see over his shoulder,

Speaker 26 Kelly, come here, come here. Okay, stop.

Speaker 15 Do they still call it Rockin' New Year's Eve?

Speaker 16 Just thinking of poor Kelly in another room,

Speaker 16 having a solitary moment of peace.

Speaker 16 Just gripping the counter and thinking of someone else, somewhere else.

Speaker 6 No-fault divorce.

Speaker 16 Just regretting, regretting her decision to get into this covenant marriage.

Speaker 16 All right, we can keep going.

Speaker 26 Maybe they're happy. Giant digital billboard right over Ryan Secret's shoulder was like 20 billion people watching it.
Is that to all of our intolerant liberal friends think?

Speaker 6 It's like, they did not do that.

Speaker 26 They did. They went there.

Speaker 6 Okay, stop.

Speaker 16 They went there, girlfriend.

Speaker 16 And we all remember,

Speaker 16 after liberals saw this vague and confusing billboard behind Ryan Seacrest in Manhattan, we all gave up completely and the conservatives had won.

Speaker 16 Every Jewish gay guy married their bossiest single girlfriend.

Speaker 19 Barack Obama sent Lena Dunham to Gitmo.

Speaker 6 We all remember that? That happened.

Speaker 19 When that happened?

Speaker 6 Hillary agreed not to go to Wisconsin. Oh.
Oh, time. Was that too

Speaker 6 soon?

Speaker 6 Jesus Christ. Stealthy Dan.
Stealthy.

Speaker 21 We stopped pretending to recycle.

Speaker 16 After we saw that billboard, Disney released a short film where Woody and Buzz Lightyear bullied that boy from Luca until he went back to the sea.

Speaker 16 Back to the sea with you. No finding love on the land, you little Italian boy in this metaphor.

Speaker 16 And that's okay, stop.

Speaker 6 When we come back, Ohio Representative Amelia Sykes.

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Speaker 17 Joining us now is the representative for Ohio's 13th Congressional District, Congresswoman Amelia Sykes.

Speaker 19 Ohio Democrats turned out, huh?

Speaker 24 Yes, they did. What else did you expect, right?

Speaker 14 I'm impressed.

Speaker 6 I'm impressed.

Speaker 14 Thank you so much for being here. It's great timing because you guys have a big election coming up in November.

Speaker 6 No, I hadn't heard of it. Yeah.

Speaker 14 So for folks at home, can we start with issue one? Can you explain to

Speaker 14 folks on the podcast who might not know about issue one, about how important this vote is for abortion rights in the state of Ohio.

Speaker 24 Absolutely. Issue one is very simple.
It is going to codify in our state's Constitution the right for women to access abortion services in Ohio.

Speaker 24 It's very simple.

Speaker 24 But, but wait, there's more.

Speaker 24 There's more because not only will it say that people can access abortion services, that there is a constitutional right for birth control, for fertility treatment, for miscarriage care, all of the things that a person of reproductive age wants access to.

Speaker 24 So not only can we grow our families, start our families, we can survive in a state like Ohio that has one of the worst maternal mortality rates in the entire country.

Speaker 18 So

Speaker 14 it's going to, we're going to win.

Speaker 19 But what happens if we don't?

Speaker 14 What are the stakes?

Speaker 24 Well, if we don't win, win, and we are not speaking that to existence because as excited as this crowd is, that's what people feel like all over the state.

Speaker 24 There has been a lot of confusion. There was an issue one in August.
There's an issue one in November. August was no.
November is yes. The ballot board had some very strange language.

Speaker 24 They rewrote the language to be longer than the actual ballot language, took out all of the meaningful pieces of information so folks actually knew what the ballot language was going to do.

Speaker 24 And now we have our governor doing a press tour saying, hey guys, don't worry. We'll put those exceptions in that we've been fighting against for the past 10 years.
Just trust me. And so

Speaker 24 we are,

Speaker 24 so we are not thinking of what's going to happen when this fail because it cannot fail. It cannot fail.
This is a must-pass ballot initiative.

Speaker 24 And that's why you're seeing such excited, exuberant people all across the state and really all across this country who wants to see a state like ohio y'all ohio make sure that we are enshrining abortion rights and reproductive rights in our constitution so i'm excited you guys are excited too right

Speaker 24 we're not gonna fail we're not gonna fail

Speaker 14 so i know that you know you've been working on maternal health issues for a very long time not just in u.s congress but here in ohio how big is this moment, is this vote for that broader set of issues that you've dedicated your career to?

Speaker 24 Well, they're very much one and of

Speaker 24 each other because when you look at states that have abortion bans, like we have in Ohio, we have some of the highest maternal mortality rates.

Speaker 24 And that means people who have tried to get pregnant, are looking forward to pregnancies, can't have them.

Speaker 24 And in addition to our maternal mortality rates being high, our infant mortality rates are high.

Speaker 24 So we're talking about devastation in families because folks aren't being able to access the care they need, when they need it, how they need it.

Speaker 24 And while I think I'm pretty smart, I'm not the one that should be answering the questions as to when someone can have an abortion, can go to an emergency room, should be on a certain type of medication.

Speaker 24 That's not my job. Unfortunately, many of my colleagues don't have that level of humility to understand there are things that we do and do well, and there are some places we should not be a part of.

Speaker 24 And decisions about reproductive health care, what's happening in doctors' offices is not a place where I should be. And I don't want to be there.

Speaker 24 I want you to be there in the comfort with your loved ones, your physicians, your health care providers. But unfortunately, we're not getting that.

Speaker 24 So I am very worried about the maternal health crisis in Ohio, especially as a black woman.

Speaker 24 Black women have some of the worst maternal death rates and morbidity rates in this state, in addition to the country.

Speaker 24 And we are constantly trying to convince our colleagues that this is a matter of life and death for us. And you either have to care about us or you don't.

Speaker 24 And you let me know that you don't care about me by supporting anti-abortion legislation. And if you're voting no on one, I know exactly what you think about women.
You don't think anything about us.

Speaker 24 You can tell I care about this a little bit, right? Just a little bit.

Speaker 14 Just going to air out that applause. That's good stuff.

Speaker 14 We were in Kentucky yesterday, bastion of liberalism.

Speaker 14 We were knocking doors with some amazing organizers from Planned Parenthood. We were in a very Catholic neighborhood, and we talked to a couple of folks who were like,

Speaker 14 listen, folks who looked like me in 30 years, right?

Speaker 14 Like people who don't look like Democrats, were like, oh, yeah, I'm pulling the lever, straight ticket Democrat for the first time in my life because of

Speaker 14 abortion access. But the other thing that some of the organizers were talking about at the doors was the concern that birth control was next.

Speaker 14 You know, that they were coming after, you know, sort of all sorts of steps in the bedroom. Is that something that you're talking to voters about? Is that a concern here?

Speaker 6 Absolutely.

Speaker 24 But the biggest issue is freedom, the freedom to choose your own destiny.

Speaker 24 And to have some dude, some place deciding what I can and cannot do, or this person deciding what you can, or you can, or you can, or cannot do, it's absurd.

Speaker 24 And so when I talk to people, I talk about freedom and the ability to make decisions for yourself. And who is the person who is best situated to do it?

Speaker 6 It's obviously you.

Speaker 24 It's not the Speaker of the House. It's not our governor.
It's not our Attorney General. And it certainly is not our Secretary of State.
So why

Speaker 24 would we allow them the opportunity to make such important decisions? And we're not. And so when I say to you, we cannot lose.
We're not going to lose because we cannot lose.

Speaker 24 And I am repetitive in that way. I used to be a cheerleader so repetition is the key.
You have to say it over and over again. That's how people remind, remember I like it a lot.

Speaker 6 I like it a lot.

Speaker 14 Speaking of dudes who want to tell us all what to do, have you met the new speaker of the house, Mr. Mike Johnson?

Speaker 23 No.

Speaker 14 No one has met the guy.

Speaker 6 No.

Speaker 14 Like, did he just come out of nowhere for everybody?

Speaker 6 Well, I...

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 24 So I am a first-term member of Congress, so that gives me a little bit of leeway.

Speaker 24 But when Susan Collins said, maybe I have to Google this dude and I can figure out who he is and how he can work, I mean,

Speaker 24 geez, this isn't he, he's one of your people. You could, you could show him a little bit more love.
But we are finding more about him.

Speaker 24 We're learning more about him as we just saw in the previous segment. And, you know, I was very disappointed to see us just not do anything for weeks at a time.

Speaker 24 We were supposed to be in our districts working with our constituents. We had to cancel all these meetings and people were expecting us.

Speaker 24 And instead, we're in DC sitting around and just voting for people who don't have enough votes and who knew they weren't going to have enough votes to be speaker yet and still the people in our districts across the country were looking for us to show up looking for us to be in meetings and talking about the work that we were doing and then next thing you know in the middle of the night it seems like mike johnson gets the votes and the nod from donald trump and now he's our speaker And in the time that we've had to understand who he is, it's really disappointing, but not really shocking that we have a speaker of the House who wants to gut Social Security and Medicaid, who wants every state in the country to be right to work, who does not believe that there should be same-sex marriage, and wants a total abortion ban.

Speaker 24 And so when you ask me why am I so optimistic about issue one, it's because I have to be.

Speaker 24 Because if someone like Mike Johnson is the Speaker of the House, and he is, he's going to push for a total abortion ban. And the only thing that is going to save us is us in Ohio.

Speaker 24 And that means issue one must pass.

Speaker 17 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 14 so we

Speaker 14 were in DC a couple weeks ago. We met, we did an event on the Hill, got to meet some like really amazing, exciting, inspiring new members of Congress and then Denver.

Speaker 6 We have a great class.

Speaker 14 You guys, like, it's really an amazing group of people.

Speaker 24 And like, we have the best class out there.

Speaker 14 Yeah, they're cool, they're fun, they're like brilliant in all these different ways.

Speaker 19 Can confirm.

Speaker 14 But it was so funny being with you all because like we were all kind of gossiping and trying to figure out what's coming up next and nobody knew.

Speaker 19 Everyone's just like checking Twitter. So can you just help everyone understand like there's no one in charge of the House of Representatives.

Speaker 7 What do the members do for like three weeks?

Speaker 24 Well we got really good at

Speaker 24 talking to one another about who we're following on Twitter to figure out where we would get information from.

Speaker 24 And it was really interesting trying to see who is actually the reporter, the news person that was getting it right.

Speaker 24 And then we were trying to figure out who was the mole in the Republican conference.

Speaker 24 Because there's someone who's giving them all the information. And one of the Jake Sherman, he was the guy.
And it's like, who is calling Jake Sherman? It's like play by play, second by second.

Speaker 24 And he had more information than the people in the room. So that was sort of one of the games we were playing, trying to figure out what was going on.

Speaker 14 I was playing the same game. It was a great game.

Speaker 14 Speaking of members of of Congress who we may or may not know, do you know Dean Phillips?

Speaker 17 Do we have any impression of him?

Speaker 24 I am super excited that we have an administration that has done great things for this country, including this state. And if I could give a big shout out, because we just got a tech hub in Akron.

Speaker 24 Are you guys familiar with the tech hubs?

Speaker 24 And no, I'm not going to answer your question, just in case you're wondering. Perfect.

Speaker 24 I'm going to take this opportunity to talk about what the administration has done for Ohio's 13th District because our community had researched and applied for a tech hub last year and was denied.

Speaker 24 And now we're going to have one. And it's all around polymer science.
And listen, polymers are very cool. Just trust me.

Speaker 24 So if you're ever wondering about plastics and polymers, come on to Ohio's 13th District. We'll tell you all about it.

Speaker 24 But what I'm most excited about is that we have an administration right now that is doing what we've asked them to do, that is supporting our workers, that is trying to put more money in people's pockets, that is being thoughtful about women's rights, about diversity, about ensuring that everyone can live their American dream.

Speaker 24 And I think that people will see that come election time next year. We are a year out, and it's hard to get people to focus on elections.
Even as we're trying to get to issue one, people are busy.

Speaker 24 They've got kids, they're trying to put food on their table.

Speaker 24 And it's easy right now to get caught up in the chaos of who is this and what shiny object do we want to follow.

Speaker 24 I'm looking at the results and I'm looking at what we're getting in Ohio's 13th congressional district, and I'm pleased to be supporting an administration, will be supporting administration that will continue to deliver those results.

Speaker 24 I hope you do too.

Speaker 6 I like that.

Speaker 14 So, you know, you were talking about

Speaker 14 workers in your state and support for them. I know you recently joined with a bunch of UAW workers on the picket line.
You were out there showing solidarity.

Speaker 14 There's been some debate and some concern about whether you know rank and file union members feel like the Democratic Party is fighting for them.

Speaker 14 What did you come away with feeling like after that time on the picket line?

Speaker 24 Well, that was not my first time on the picket line with UAW striking workers.

Speaker 24 And

Speaker 24 I have to say it. Did you all see that time when Marcy Kaptur said,

Speaker 24 is this your first time?

Speaker 24 That won't be me. It was not my first time.

Speaker 24 So what we heard from workers several years ago when we were in Toledo is the same thing that we heard from folks a couple weeks ago was they've been working really hard.

Speaker 24 They made a lot of people very rich and they just want to make sure that they are able to access the same ways and pathways to wealth and being able to put food on their table.

Speaker 24 Folks across this country, folks across Ohio and my district, they are struggling. And inflation is high and we have to accept that to be a truth.

Speaker 24 But we also have to recognize that there are pathways for folks to get what they need in order to survive.

Speaker 24 And unions, labor unions are leading the way i was so amazed as i talked to those workers and understood what they were sacrificing to be on strike that they weren't getting the pay that they should have been getting to pay for food gas groceries rent mortgages but they knew how important it was for them to stand up not just for themselves but for workers across uaw but not just members of unions, members who may not be in unions thinking, why would I want to be a part of that?

Speaker 24 Well, you want to be be a part of it because these are the people moving the conversation forward and making sure that you have your access to the American dream.

Speaker 24 So I left there probably more encouraged at their grit and their resilience and their willingness to be there. They probably did more for me than I did for them showing up there.

Speaker 24 And I am steadfast, wholeheartedly, always will be in solidarity with our unions friends because they are truly the reason why people can have a good life in this country. They truly are.

Speaker 24 And we should support them every step of the way. So bravo to UAW, two out of three.
They've got one more left and we'll be excited and be cheering them on when they do it.

Speaker 6 All right.

Speaker 14 Last question for you. We were talking in D.C.

Speaker 14 You're in a tough seat. It's basically a toss-up.

Speaker 14 Presidential years can be challenging for Democrats in Ohio. Like, what's it going to take for you to win, for Sherry Brown to win, for all the other statewide and local Dems to win too?

Speaker 14 I'm not leaving anybody out.

Speaker 17 And how can people help out?

Speaker 24 Absolutely. So first of all, it's going to take everyone in this audience to help us all win.
And so we're relying on you.

Speaker 24 And let me thank you in advance for all that you have done and all that you're going to do to make sure that we keep Sherra Brown and the United States Senate and we re-elect myself and Marcy Kaptur and Joyce Beatty and Chantel Brown and Greg Landsman.

Speaker 24 And so I'm in Ohio's only toss-up congressional district. All the others are either safe D or likely D, and I'm in the only toss-up district.

Speaker 24 And people often are really shocked to hear that because they assume as a black woman, I'm in a very

Speaker 24 D plus 40 district, but I'm not. My district is an R plus one district.
And I won and outperformed President Biden's performance. I won by five points.

Speaker 24 And I won because of people like you in the audience. I won because I went to the people and told them I'm going to work for them.
And I showed them my record.

Speaker 24 And I'm going to continue to show them my record and say, I am earning your vote. I'm not just going to ask for it.

Speaker 24 I'm going to earn your vote, but I'm also going to ask you to make a donation because it's really expensive. My race was $21 million.
Did you? $21 million.

Speaker 6 Yes. Wow.

Speaker 24 Yes. Let's all be appalled with, first of all, how much elections cost and that this race was $21 million.

Speaker 24 And so the Republicans have already started attacking me. They've stopped for a little bit because I think they were trying to get their act together.

Speaker 24 But now that they're back, I expect to see them soon. So visit AmeliaSykes4Congress,

Speaker 24 Congress.com. Please make a donation if you can.

Speaker 24 Make sure that we push back against these MAGA extremists and win in a district where they don't expect us to. We can do it again.

Speaker 14 All right, well, folks, listen: some really good members of Congress out there. There's very few great ones.
So, please make a donation.

Speaker 1 Help out.

Speaker 27 Congresswoman Amelia Sykes, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 14 Thank you for coming.

Speaker 6 There are just 78 days to go until the Iowa caucuses

Speaker 6 and one week until the Republican debate in Miami. And it looks like it'll be down to Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, Chris Christie, and just today, Tim Scott said he finally qualified.

Speaker 16 Yeah, my guy.

Speaker 6 There you go.

Speaker 6 Mike Pence has dropped out.

Speaker 29 Oh, mother.

Speaker 16 He decided he'd rather hang at home.

Speaker 6 He just couldn't hang. Ah, he beat me.

Speaker 6 Beat me.

Speaker 6 And the.

Speaker 6 Yikes. He suspended his campaign from what?

Speaker 6 Boo.

Speaker 6 And the party's criminal defendant. It was really neck and neck.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 6 Wow.

Speaker 6 And the party's criminal defendant frontrunner is skipping yet again because of his huge lead in all the polls That's undoubtedly due to performances like this.

Speaker 18 I mean, they're not doing well, they're not being treated, and they are right now at a level. I think we're going to get so we're at 28.

Speaker 18 You know, the same people that attacked Israel are coming into our country, too.

Speaker 18 And did you ever notice? Somebody said the other day, some fool on CNN said, oh, isn't that nice? They're all nice young men. They have young men, 23, 24, 22 years old,

Speaker 18 strong, they like nice young men. There's something going on.
There's something going on. It's not a good thing.
They have a lot of young men, young, strong men.

Speaker 18 I don't want to insult the women, but they're young, strong men, even though, as you know, they want men to play in women's sports, you know that. We're not going to allow that.

Speaker 18 We're not allowing that. I want to do that too.
I'm an extraordinary athlete.

Speaker 2 I want to play.

Speaker 18 And I apologize for those lights. The only place I don't have a light's up here, so that means we're going to have to wiggle tonight, okay? There's no light.

Speaker 18 They give us plenty of lights, but not to read this crap. Look,

Speaker 18 they wrote me a beautiful speech. I might as well throw it right out that window.

Speaker 6 Man,

Speaker 6 that's tough for the speech writers.

Speaker 6 I will tell you. That hurts.
When did you get into the...

Speaker 14 Where does that voice come from?

Speaker 6 Nice young men, strong, strong young men. Sexy men.
What's going on? Something going on.

Speaker 16 It's like he clicked over to the wrong pornhub side it's like

Speaker 6 just put that just put that in an ad just

Speaker 6 what is weird guy weird dude uh

Speaker 6 all right

Speaker 6 alyssa the the field is narrowing but so far the polls are not uh though by the time people listen to the show there will be a new Des Moines register poll uh that could render all of our takes meaningless.

Speaker 6 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down.
I'm out of here. What, you got a message box in waiting? Tomorrow morning at 6 a.m., we're going to get a poll.

Speaker 16 These takes, you're going to either eat them tonight or they're banana bread tomorrow.

Speaker 6 But Alyssa, do you, we haven't talked about this. Do you see anything brewing that could change the dynamic in the Republican primary over the next 78 days? You guys.

Speaker 15 So, you know, you talk about the polar coaster and everything, but I did a little polling deep dive in preparation for today. So there was a new 538.
Is that what it's called?

Speaker 6 538?

Speaker 15 Yeah. 538 poll.
Trump, 56.9, DeSantis, 14. Haley, 8,

Speaker 15 Ramaswamy, 5.8.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 15 So you want to hear my take?

Speaker 21 Just FYI, Tim Scott's at 2 in that poll.

Speaker 15 I stopped writing them down below 5.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 15 Okay.

Speaker 15 So here's my vibe.

Speaker 15 He's like in pretty good shape.

Speaker 6 Except,

Speaker 15 except

Speaker 15 there are some things that have happened in the past couple of weeks. One particularly delicious development that I've enjoyed.
So one, we got little Jenna Ellis white lady tears, right?

Speaker 15 Okay.

Speaker 15 Then you've got Sidney Powell. You've got Ken Chesborough, or as I like to call them all, star witnesses.

Speaker 15 So like, it's possible that they've got the goods on him.

Speaker 6 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 15 Like, it's possible. The best part, the most delicious nugget for anyone who missed it.

Speaker 15 Ivanka has been ordered to testify in the New York civil fraud trial. I am not going to lie.

Speaker 6 Under oath, do you love your father?

Speaker 15 I

Speaker 6 under oath, is your father told you he loved you? Yeah, yeah, I've got a lot of people.

Speaker 15 Piper too much.

Speaker 15 So, you know, I think

Speaker 15 there are a lot of things that could happen in court. I mean, like, they are moving.
Like, when Fonnie Willis filed these charges, everyone was like, there is no way she's going to be able to

Speaker 15 flip people this fast. Seems that she could.

Speaker 24 So, I don't know.

Speaker 15 We'll see what happens. I really think that that is the only potential that could upend him from being the Republican nominee, God help us all.

Speaker 15 But, yeah, that's my hot take.

Speaker 6 That's it. That's it.
I just wonder wonder if it'll happen in time.

Speaker 15 I mean, that's the whole thing. But like, Sidney Powell like cut a deal in like a week.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 15 You know, Jenna Ellis, I mean, she was like one and done. She's like, I'll take probation.
I'll testify as needed and I will do community service. Like, this is what I have to imagine is like real.

Speaker 15 Like, these people are getting away with actual kind of murder.

Speaker 6 You know, like,

Speaker 6 imagine standing in the middle of Fifth Avenue thing. It's just getting closer and closer.

Speaker 23 Jenna Ellis crying, crying.

Speaker 15 I should have asked more questions of Ruli Giuliani.

Speaker 6 Yes, you should have.

Speaker 15 But like, she got community service and like a $5,000 fine. So like...

Speaker 6 Must have given something good.

Speaker 15 I mean, look, unless law and order after all these years has let me down, I got to assume she gave something good.

Speaker 6 Well,

Speaker 6 so obviously you can't beat something with nothing. So someone has to beat Donald Trump if he is somehow weakened between now and Iowa.
Dan, here's the top politico headline today.

Speaker 6 I know you're excited about this. The rise is real.
That's in quotations. Haley's breakout is jolting 2024's undercard race.
Are you feeling the jolt?

Speaker 21 Look, John, who isn't riveted by the ups and downs, the moving and shaking, and the riveting race for a distant second and Donald Trump.

Speaker 21 I mean, the whole thing is stupid. She's not even in second place yet.
She's in third place.

Speaker 6 Man,

Speaker 6 that's a pretty confident statement with the Iowa Poles completely. I'm just giving you the national polls.

Speaker 21 I think there is a, this is the important caveat here. There is a chance that the Des Moore Register poll will come out that will show her in a distant second to Donald Trump.

Speaker 6 I just want to make sure you got on the record. I mean, I think, look,

Speaker 21 if there is some prize for second place in the Republican primary, which Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley seems very convinced there is,

Speaker 19 do you get like half the pot?

Speaker 6 Vice president.

Speaker 21 Whatever it is,

Speaker 21 she is well positioned to have a shot to possibly come in second. I think we should all pay a lot of attention to that.

Speaker 15 Do you think it's because she said she would never compliment Hezbollah?

Speaker 21 Honestly, that story in Politico was so goddamn stupid that I've been stewing about it since you sent it to me this morning.

Speaker 6 It was the headline. It was the full page of Politico.

Speaker 21 It is just a reminder that we do not need minute-by-minute coverage of a largely boring campaign.

Speaker 16 I know.

Speaker 6 And it's like

Speaker 6 one of the arguments for

Speaker 6 two days a week. That's all you need.
Yeah, you know what?

Speaker 6 I would say an hour and 15 minutes twice a week is fucking pitch perfect.

Speaker 6 We've been talking about Gaza and the speakers race for so long now. We actually haven't covered the GOP primary in a while, partly because there's a reason because there's nothing to cover.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 I know.

Speaker 21 But in the story, they're like, one of the reasons people are moving to Nikki Haley is that the attention is turned to foreign policy. And she has a foreign policy background.

Speaker 28 Yeah, no, that's. Do we think that's what's happening?

Speaker 6 No, no, I don't.

Speaker 6 Tommy,

Speaker 6 Ron DeSantis' new line is that Trump is only leading because he has a hundred percent name ID and Trump's super PAC apparently just went up on the air in Iowa with an ad attacking DeSantis.

Speaker 6 Do you think

Speaker 6 it's hard to like say this with all the straight face? Do you think that he's still a threat to Donald Trump? Or are they just looking to humiliate him at this point?

Speaker 6 Hmm. I mean, both.

Speaker 14 We were raised in a normal political world where you don't punch down. The sort of early phases of the campaign are kind of nicer, and it's lots of like oblique shots on policy, right?

Speaker 14 Trump just got into the campaign in 2016 and started pummeling anyone he perceived as a threat.

Speaker 14 And I was watching his speech in Nevada where he was bragging to this audience for an hour and 10 minutes that he does not play prevent defense.

Speaker 14 Prevent defense for you non-football fans is when you drop back all your defensive backs. You won't give up a touchdown.

Speaker 15 Why are you looking at me?

Speaker 14 Looking to love it, but you're willing to give up some kind of short yardage. Trump does not play pre-vent defense.

Speaker 6 He is smash mouth football.

Speaker 14 He's blitzing. He's killing the quarterback.
So I think like he just likes kicking the shit out of Ron DeSantis.

Speaker 6 Remember when he wasn't? I like it.

Speaker 6 Agree with Trump. Agree with Trump.

Speaker 14 Remember when DeSantis got in the race and Trump was like openly deciding which nickname he was going to use?

Speaker 19 Like, should I use DeSanctus?

Speaker 17 Should I call him Meatball? And these conservative.

Speaker 6 Anyone remember Tiny D?

Speaker 21 Tiny D.

Speaker 6 DeSanctimonious? DeSanctus. At one point, he just gave up.
He's like, I'll call him whatever the fuck I want. He's not going to win.

Speaker 19 And these conservative commentators like Mark Levin were like, oh, I hope he doesn't do that.

Speaker 14 It's going to offend a lot of conservatives.

Speaker 6 What happened?

Speaker 14 Trump skyrocketed like 50% in all these polls and DeSantis tanked.

Speaker 17 So I think he both loves what he's doing

Speaker 14 when you love what you're doing. It's not a job, but it's also effective politics.

Speaker 16 It's also like DeSantis coming out with a new rationale for why he's losing is actually why he's losing.

Speaker 16 Underneath why he's losing, which is because he's the kind of person that thinks that's a good idea. Like Ron DeSantis, actually, what is most interesting about Ron DeSantis

Speaker 16 as a candidate is one thing he successfully did is introduce himself to the United States of America. He actually is way better known than he has any right to be.

Speaker 16 Going after Disney, becoming the fucking woke police, having that personality.

Speaker 6 It really connected.

Speaker 16 And unfortunately, it connected in a really bad way. The United States is aware of Ron DeSantis, and they say, no, thank you.

Speaker 16 Donald Trump isn't, Donald Trump isn't just winning against people who haven't heard of Ron DeSantis. People who are, Republican primary voters are aware of Ron DeSantis.

Speaker 16 They've given him a good look. They've said, what's going on in those boots, sir?

Speaker 4 You're,

Speaker 16 I'll, you know, that is, you're wearing a 5'10 suit. You got 5'7 energy.

Speaker 6 The theme of

Speaker 6 the theme of the weekend, yeah.

Speaker 21 Just to put some numbers on this is that

Speaker 16 I just did that, Dan.

Speaker 6 Did you?

Speaker 21 Is that Ron DeSantis is trailing by 45 points in the polls, and his approval rating is about his ID, his name ID is about five points less than Trump's.

Speaker 14 Jesus Christ.

Speaker 6 So that doesn't work that well for him, that excuse.

Speaker 6 So the minority of Republicans who don't want Trump as the nominee,

Speaker 6 some of them are in the consultant class because they've run elections, and some politicians as well, they're starting to say that it is time for all the other candidates to drop out, just like Pence did, so this can become a one-on-one contest.

Speaker 6 Love it. Do you think it's quitting time for your friends Chris Christie and Tim Scott? I know they're...

Speaker 6 look I know you're close to people. Obviously,

Speaker 16 the conversations I have with Chris

Speaker 16 are between us, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave, that's my counsel to him. Tim Scott should drop out.

Speaker 16 But the problem with this is, look, sure, winnow the field, great, but you know,

Speaker 16 there's this idea that the people not currently,

Speaker 16 that all the people supporting Tim Scott, all the people, all the people, all the persons supporting Tim Scott,

Speaker 6 Doug Durgamo's wife,

Speaker 16 the idea is that these votes are going to all kind of go to the Trump alternative. A lot of them are going to go to Trump.

Speaker 16 You look at some of the polling,

Speaker 16 if you ask,

Speaker 16 if you do the whole field, you'll end up with Trump in the high 40s and DeSantis way below, and then the rest of them getting their single digits.

Speaker 16 If you just do, say, Trump and DeSantis, Trump goes above 50.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 16 sure, yeah, consolidate.

Speaker 6 Great.

Speaker 16 Try it. No bad ideas in a brainstorm.

Speaker 14 There is this, you know, this is silly to talk about because it's coming out after we post this show, but this Des Moines register poll will be interesting because the last one, the Des Moines Register polls in Iowa are the best in the business by far.

Speaker 14 It's a woman named Anne Seltzer who's like the best pollster there is for the state, maybe the country. And her previous polls have showed like a 28%

Speaker 19 Trump.

Speaker 6 or die.

Speaker 14 Like, I will vote Trump or nobody vote. I'll be very interested to see if that number is moved and there still is the potential for someone to consolidate the other voters.

Speaker 6 Because I look, I agree with you, Love.

Speaker 14 It's like probably a lost cause, and these folks aren't going to do the right thing and drop out and allow the vote to consolidate. But it will be interesting to see if that's even an option anymore.

Speaker 6 Well, I mean, it seems pretty clear from this conversation where everyone stands here.

Speaker 6 Just for fun, would anyone like to make an argument that one of these goobers might beat Donald Trump in Iowa and New Hampshire? Let's lay out the fantasy scenario. Anyone? Sure.
Okay.

Speaker 21 I mean, we're never going to know because these are terrible candidates whose campaign is run by idiots. Like, they don't seem to

Speaker 21 want to win. And most of them are now, honestly, with all seriousness, they're not trying to be Donald Trump.
They're trying to be vice president to Donald Trump.

Speaker 21 They're trying to maintain whatever role.

Speaker 6 The reason that I don't think, I would say, I don't think Haley is.

Speaker 21 I think 100%.

Speaker 6 Haley.

Speaker 6 She's now gone. It's so funny.
There's this line, right?

Speaker 6 There's the red line for how much you subtly attack Donald Trump, and then if you go over it and you like directly attack, she's like now pretty close to, I think he's very upset with her.

Speaker 21 And he may be, maybe she won't get it, but it is what people are trying to navigate now is they are not trying to win, they're trying to manage their loss in a MAGA-dominated Republican Party.

Speaker 21 Are they going to be the vice president?

Speaker 21 Are they going to be someone who is still a member in good standing of that party to run again in 2028, whether Trump wins or loses, because he can't run for re-election?

Speaker 21 And so that is why the attack ads on the air are not any of these fucking idiots attacking Donald Trump. They're attacking each other.

Speaker 21 DeSantis and Haley have ads on the air attacking each other because they want to split up that 24% between the two of them. Like, what are they doing? Like, there is a way to try to do this.

Speaker 21 There is a way to actually do it. It requires the field to winnow to one person.
And that person is probably Nikki Haley among this group.

Speaker 21 Because Ron DeSantis has the political skills and charisma of banana slug, and we should not count on him to do it.

Speaker 6 What's a banana slug?

Speaker 21 He is not that guy.

Speaker 16 It's like a little Ron DeSantis. It's like

Speaker 16 moves on the ground.

Speaker 21 And so what you would have to do is you would have to consolidate it. You would have to then, you're one-on-one.
You have to beat him in Iowa. And then you have to beat him in New Hampshire.

Speaker 21 There is no skip Iowa, go to New Hampshire because you're going to get clobbered in South Carolina. And the thing about Trump is he's never lost.

Speaker 17 And even

Speaker 6 according to all the voters,

Speaker 6 according to the voters, he didn't lose in 2020.

Speaker 16 Where were you on January 6th?

Speaker 17 Dan took a shit in Pelosi's office.

Speaker 6 Wow.

Speaker 6 That's a heel turn.

Speaker 21 And so what you would do is if you wanted to actually try to beat Trump, it's one person. They tried to beat him in Iowa.

Speaker 21 They make an explicit case at evangelical Christians in Iowa that Trump is not the person who can carry what they want, who will not win, who will be chaotic.

Speaker 21 You would take all that insane shit that most voters, even Iowa caucus voters, are not seeing.

Speaker 21 Because Fox has actually not covered Trump like we think they cover Trump. They do not put his bad moments on air.

Speaker 6 You take those bad moments. No one does anymore, by the way.
Like, I don't see that. Like, the stuff that we showed, like, there's, there's like five Twitter accounts that have all those clips.

Speaker 6 Like, you don't see them on CNN. The right-wing media has canceled Trump.

Speaker 19 Yeah.

Speaker 28 They canceled him. It's outrageous.

Speaker 6 We now have to do it. He's being shadow banned by Fox.

Speaker 21 But I think my point here is that the odds are that Trump still wins in that, but there is a theoretical path to getting it done.

Speaker 21 But I don't think any of these candidates, and certainly the people who work for them, are up to it because they are not playing to win, they are playing to manage their loss.

Speaker 6 I think hey, I think, yeah, you're right that Haley is the closest, and again, like I did not have high hopes for her when she started, so I was already wrong.

Speaker 6 Like, she's gone farther than I thought she would. But, like, I looked at the last Des Moines Register poll, it was Trump 42, DeSantis 19, Scott 9, Haley 6, Pence 6, Christie 5, Vivek 4, Bergham 2,

Speaker 6 Will Hurd, 1,

Speaker 6 not with a seven seven points.

Speaker 6 That's hard to verify. Yeah, not sure five, right?

Speaker 6 So if Haley, in this next poll, just for fun, if she took all of Pence's support, Scott's, Christie's, Bergham's Hurds, and like half of DeSantis's, she still wouldn't beat Trump, but she'd be close.

Speaker 6 She'd be within striking distance.

Speaker 16 I think the thing about that, Matt, so I think two things. I think one,

Speaker 16 to Dan's point, I actually think the most important thing is what's going to happen with DeSantis, right? Like, whether Scott drops out or Christie drops out, there's just not enough happening there.

Speaker 16 Like, does DeSantis view it as in his interest to go through with this farce any further?

Speaker 16 Or does he see some equity in getting out and getting behind, or getting behind Haley seems inconceivable, getting behind Trump seems inconceivable. Who knows?

Speaker 16 But just getting out to stop, to not put himself through the, the, the auger of this fucking defeat he's about to experience, that leaves some space for Haley to get some, get higher in the polls.

Speaker 16 She doesn't need to, in the next round of polls or the poll round of polls after that, she doesn't need to be beating Trump. She doesn't need to be faster than the bear.

Speaker 16 She needs to be faster than the other guys.

Speaker 16 And then the conversation can change if Trump shows some weakness because of exogenous forces like

Speaker 16 the judge in New York taking all his money or

Speaker 16 him getting thrown in jail for contempt.

Speaker 6 I also think

Speaker 6 the scenario where this works is, again,

Speaker 6 real long shot here. Everything that Alyssa was saying about all of his legal woes suddenly bubble up a lot.
He says some crazy shit.

Speaker 6 Joe Biden's approval rating would have to start creeping up because then electability might start becoming a concern for Republicans again.

Speaker 6 Right now, part of the problem is it's like, well, if Nikki Haley's argument is I'm the one who can beat Joe Biden, but also Donald Trump is beating Joe Biden in some polls or at least tied with him in polls, then like, why wouldn't you just take Donald Trump, you know?

Speaker 6 But if Joe Biden's approval rating started coming up, then Nikki Haley of all these people is probably the best position because if she can somehow beat him in Iowa, which again,

Speaker 6 then goes to New Hampshire and can beat him in New Hampshire, then unlike any of these other candidates, she's positioned really well in South Carolina, right? So then, like, then you have a thing.

Speaker 6 But, like, again, that's pretty far away.

Speaker 21 Trump has never faced a real primary loss because even though he lost Iowa, it was so confusing. It wasn't announced for a long period of time.

Speaker 21 It was wrapped up in allegations that Ted Cruz ran these robocalls to convince people not to vote. And so then he went to New Hampshire and he had a huge victory.

Speaker 21 South Carolina, huge victory and was off to the races.

Speaker 21 And so a candidate who depends on inevitability, and that is a big part of what has been part of Trump's rise over the last year: is that people have seen he might as well get on board because he's going to win.

Speaker 21 If you shatter the myth of inevitability, everyone freaks out, something is possible, right?

Speaker 21 Whether Nikki Hilley might be someone who would be well positioned in hypothetical general election polls against Biden to seem as electable or more electable than Trump, because Trump will seem weak if he loses

Speaker 21 in there's a huge unexpected loss in Iowa.

Speaker 6 Yeah, that's right. Well, we'll see.

Speaker 15 The first woman president cannot be a Republican.

Speaker 15 Dear God, no.

Speaker 6 Not making any predictions, but I would not.

Speaker 22 I'm just putting it out of the bag.

Speaker 6 Okay. When we come back, the executive director of Pro-Choice Ohio, Kelly Copeland.

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Speaker 29 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the host of Morbid Podcast. Each week, we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

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Speaker 24 Yay! Woo! Aye!

Speaker 15 A critical fight for abortion rights, and you guys know I love to talk about abortion, is playing out right here in Ohio, where voters will decide if they want to enshrine abortion rights into the state constitution.

Speaker 15 Here to talk about abortion rights and combating Republican Republican extremism, my hero, an icon, Executive Director of Pro-Choice Ohio, Kelly Copeland. Kelly, thank you for coming on the pod.

Speaker 6 OH!

Speaker 23 That's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 15 Exactly. Okay, so not only is she my icon for all of the work she has done for 20 years.
21. 21.

Speaker 15 But I heard you're also a cat lady.

Speaker 23 Oh my God. Just give me the chance to talk about my cat, His Grace.

Speaker 13 Okay,

Speaker 15 and I'm just saying it's National Cat Day, so it is Kismet that we are here together.

Speaker 6 Of course.

Speaker 15 Kelly, so for anyone who doesn't know, what's the state of abortion care access in Ohio right now? Is it correct that y'all still have a six-week ban, but the courts have blocked enforcement for now?

Speaker 15 What is the latest?

Speaker 23 Yes, that is correct. And what we mean by for now is that

Speaker 23 days, even hours after the election on November 7th, the state Supreme Court could rule against us and they could put the six-week ban into effect.

Speaker 23 I mean, if we don't pass issue one, they will move to put that six-week ban back into effect as it was for 82 days last year, except this time it'll be permanent.

Speaker 6 It's pretty much a problem. I know, it's a bummer.
I'm sorry to bring you down.

Speaker 15 No, we're here for real talk, okay? This isn't just like a tiptoe through the tulips. Okay, anti-abortion officials purposely made this whole process as confusing as possible.

Speaker 15 Aaron and I covered it a lot on hysteria. There was an August special election where Republicans tried their fuckery to change the rules of the ballot initiatives altogether.

Speaker 15 Republicans come out of the woodwork in August. It is, they did it in Kansas, they did it in Ohio, but you prevailed.

Speaker 23 Yeah, y'all beat their ass.

Speaker 15 So now that failed.

Speaker 15 Now there's another vote on the actual Issue One initiative. Let's settle this once and for all.
What do Ohioans need to know about Issue One?

Speaker 23 Well, first of all, it's a yes on Issue One in November.

Speaker 23 It was a no in August. Don't get it confused.

Speaker 23 But, you know, I think you bring up such an important point because our opponents have used and leveraged the full force of the state government against you, against all of us.

Speaker 23 Our taxpayer dollars, they spent $20 million on that special election in August. Taxpayer dollars.
They have messed with the system every step of the way.

Speaker 23 The AG has put out legal opinions, their campaign propaganda. The state senate has done the same thing.

Speaker 23 The Attorney General made a summary of the amendment that is filled with bogus information and they're doing all of this because they've had 50 years

Speaker 23 50 years since Roe v.

Speaker 23 Wade to make the case that their agenda to outlaw all abortion in all circumstances is what we should do and they have failed and so that is why they have to do all of this unscrupulous frankly legalized cheating to try to subvert your vote because the vast majority of Ohioans and the vast majority of Americans believe that we should make our own reproductive health care decisions and not the government.

Speaker 23 But these extremists who have taken over Ohio through gerrymandering and through so many other unscrupulous practices, they don't care.

Speaker 23 They don't want to represent us like my Congresswoman Amelia Sykes. They want to rule us.

Speaker 6 And we're not going to let them, are we?

Speaker 29 Hell no.

Speaker 15 Speaking of unscrupulous, so I went down the rabbit hole. I've been trying to learn for months everything I can learn about Ohio.

Speaker 15 And I know, I'm going to bring up something that we hate to talk about, but we have to talk about.

Speaker 15 People have been saying that the amendment would bring back partial birth abortions, which haven't been legal in 15 years. Can you please explain to us what voting yes on issue one would actually do?

Speaker 23 Voting yes on issue one would protect access to abortion when it's needed for health care reasons.

Speaker 23 It would make sure that no Ohioan has to worry that they won't get access to care when their life is in jeopardy.

Speaker 23 It makes sure, but it also has the language that says that there can be restrictions after the point of viability, but those restrictions can't be the ones that our opponents want.

Speaker 23 What our opponents want is that when people experience a pregnancy complication, and think about it, we're talking about very wanted planned pregnancies where someone gets the worst news, where maybe they've already picked out a name, and our opponents are so heartless that they want to tell those people,

Speaker 23 too bad. Too bad if you die, too bad if you can't make the decisions that are best for you and your family.
Too bad.

Speaker 23 And, you know, the most serious consequence of issue one failing, and the one that I'm scared the most about,

Speaker 23 is, you know, when it was in effect, the six-week ban for 82 days, there was an incredible safety net with abortion funds in Ohio and abortion clinics and activists, maybe many of you, where we were able to provide financial and logistical support to get people out, get people care in other states.

Speaker 23 But if you're sick, you may not be able to travel. You may not be able to get to Pittsburgh or Detroit or Chicago.
And that is the thing that has been most terrifying.

Speaker 23 It was the most terrifying thing during the 82 days that the the six-week ban was in effect, and it's the most terrifying thing about the possibility of not passing issue one.

Speaker 23 And it's frankly the thing I worry about most for my kids. They're young women in their 20s.
And even with all the connections and all the resources I have, I am so scared that

Speaker 23 when it's their time to plan a family, if they decide to be pregnant in the state of Ohio, that they'll get the care they need.

Speaker 23 That's why all of us have to work night and day to make sure that not only that doesn't happen to people, but that every pregnant person doesn't have to be afraid.

Speaker 23 People came up to me all during those 82 days talking about how they were so scared. They were scared that they wouldn't get the care they need.
They were scared that they might die.

Speaker 23 That is what they're trying to do to us. That's how little they care about us.
And that's how much we have to fight and love each other. That's why we have to pass issue one.

Speaker 15 And to your point, Kelly, that is not hyperbole.

Speaker 15 What's happening in Texas, the women who have been forced to go into sepsis because doctors didn't want to put their careers on the line to be able to provide abortion care, this is real.

Speaker 15 And this is not dramatic. This is not propaganda.
This is happening across the country where abortion's been outlawed.

Speaker 23 Yeah, in Ohio during those 82 days, women who were experiencing miscarriages were sometimes sent away from hospitals, even though they were bleeding, bleeding heavily,

Speaker 23 filling up, forgive me, one diaper after another with blood, and they were turned away because the hospitals and the doctors were worried that they would be criminalized if they helped these patients.

Speaker 23 That should never happen. I mean, Cleveland is a medical destination with the Cleveland Clinic.
People come from all over the globe to Cleveland.

Speaker 23 How could we possibly let them do this to us? We won't.

Speaker 15 No, we won't.

Speaker 15 So, there's been an interesting thing. The tactic of changing the ballot initiative process was both shady and quite extreme.

Speaker 15 And now, those who oppose issue one are spreading misinformation and lying about what the ballot initiative does. Can you give us some examples of this bad faith fuckery?

Speaker 6 I mean,

Speaker 23 they want parents to be afraid that they're going to be able to access health care without them, that they'll be able to

Speaker 23 change the physicality of their gender and their sex. They just have made up all of these wild things.
And I always think to myself,

Speaker 23 why are you picking on kids? Why are you picking on children who need access to health care? Why are you lying to parents?

Speaker 23 We know that parents who had underage daughters who needed an abortion during those 82 days had to take them out of state. What kind of parental rights is that?

Speaker 23 I mean, issue one will strengthen parental rights because parents will be able to get their daughters the abortion care and other health care they need here at home, as it should be.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 15 a majority of Americans support abortion, access to abortion.

Speaker 15 Like eight and ten. Like a lot.

Speaker 6 Like a lot, a lot.

Speaker 15 So why are Republicans so obsessed with our bodies, even though it is a losing issue for them at the ballot box?

Speaker 23 You know, I've been trying to figure that out.

Speaker 15 It's hard. It makes no sense.

Speaker 23 Well, I mean, that's, you know, I have a deputy director, Jamie Miracle, and she and I have done this work together for 21 years, and she's she's our lobbyist. Yes, Jamie Miracle.

Speaker 23 And

Speaker 23 she's very scientific, and she's very thoughtful and smart and educated, and she goes into this state house with facts. She's gone into the state house with, I mean, we were just talking backstage.

Speaker 23 We have brought hundreds of abortion storytellers and doctors to the state house. We've been fighting this six-week ban since 2011.
This is 13 years that we've fought this fight.

Speaker 23 We were the first state in Ohio. And the one thing I know about our opponents is they don't give a shit about us and they don't give a shit about the facts because they had it all.

Speaker 23 You know, when Governor DeWine, you know, he's out here going, well, you know,

Speaker 23 we'll find some other path. It's, you know, it's, don't worry, trust us.
Baloney, he knows. We've had hundreds of people come testify at the state house.

Speaker 23 We have had thousands, 700,000 people sign the petition to put this on the ballot. Ohioans don't trust you, Governor DeWine, and you've given us reason not to.

Speaker 23 They don't listen to us, they don't care about us, and I don't understand why they're such a bunch of bastards. I really don't.

Speaker 15 That's a vibe.

Speaker 6 Okay,

Speaker 15 I want to dig a little deeper even more. The campaign opposing issue one, Protect Women Ohio, recently said that the effort...

Speaker 23 I don't need protection from you.

Speaker 6 Thank you. Protect Women Ohio.

Speaker 23 No, thank you.

Speaker 15 They recently said that the effort to get this amendment on the ballot is anti-parent.

Speaker 15 We've seen the right more and more try to embrace being the party of parents to justify taking away abortion rights, censoring what kids read, and hate on the LGBTQ community.

Speaker 15 What does this bill actually mean for parents and families, and how do we combat pro-parent messaging?

Speaker 23 Well, how many of us are parents?

Speaker 6 Those are the facts.

Speaker 23 Parents and parenthood should be the decision that you make, not the decision the government makes. I mean that is the bottom line.
Who decides? Is it you and your family or is it the government?

Speaker 23 Is it Mike DeWine? Is it Frank LaRose? Is it any one of those scumbags?

Speaker 23 I mean, when we're talking about parental rights, we're talking about the right to live our lives our own way and not have the government tell us how to live our lives.

Speaker 23 I mean, issue one opponents are anti-parents' rights. They want to take away your ability to make decisions with your family.

Speaker 23 They want to, as was those 82 days, they want to make all the decisions for you. That's why parents had to flee the state with their children who needed access to abortion.

Speaker 23 How are they somehow the standard bearer for parental rights when they forced families to go through that?

Speaker 15 Amen.

Speaker 15 This important vote has captured the nation's attention, especially as abortion rights proved to be a critical issue in every election since Dobbs.

Speaker 15 Even, I just need to say, even in New York State where I live, the Equal Rights Amendment will be on the ballot in 2024 because if a Republican wins, if Donald Trump wins and a national abortion ban were to take place, even New York would need the Equal Rights Amendment to protect women in New York State.

Speaker 15 So, that said.

Speaker 15 What lessons should those watching across the country learn from how you've organized around issue one?

Speaker 23 That this is a grassroots movement, that this is a movement fueled by love.

Speaker 23 You know, when we dropped off those 420 boxes filled with 700,000 signatures to get on the ballot, the one thing I was so overwhelmed by was the love.

Speaker 23 The love that so many people put into this work. This is a work of love and community compassion.
This is a grassroots effort.

Speaker 23 This is something that whether you're a Democrat or an Independent or even a Republican, this could affect you and your family. This is bigger than politics.
This is a deeply personal situation.

Speaker 23 It's something that affects generations. I do this work because I know how important it is.
My great-grandmother had 21 children that lived.

Speaker 23 My grandmother had an illegal abortion to save her life during the Depression. My mom was an incest survivor.

Speaker 23 I know from my family how important these decisions are, how important access to abortion, to sex education, to contraception, to fertility treatment, to all of those things are, because it's affected every generation of my family.

Speaker 23 And We cannot, in any state, no matter what they throw at us, no matter how long we have to work. I mean, we've worked 13 years to stop the six-week abortion ban.

Speaker 23 And people are like, why do you keep doing it?

Speaker 23 Because fuck them. They can't take this from us.
Amen.

Speaker 24 You deserve all that applause.

Speaker 24 That's right.

Speaker 15 Kelly, you helped create a broad coalition that organized getting signatures and mobilizing voters all across the state.

Speaker 15 What would you tell someone listening who might want to get involved in organizing but is nervous to start?

Speaker 23 Get over it.

Speaker 23 Get in it.

Speaker 30 You know,

Speaker 23 this stuff matters. And, you know, start somewhere.
Reach out to an organization that's doing the work and say, what can I do? Put me to work.

Speaker 23 I would like to see you all go to work right right now, if you haven't already, by signing up at ourr.win. That's Ohioans United for Reproductive Rights

Speaker 6 dot win.

Speaker 23 Because

Speaker 23 we need to turn out the vote. And everyone can do something.
I had a campaign once where I had a little old Hungarian woman and she cooked. And she fed our volunteers.

Speaker 23 Oh my God, it was such good food. And she couldn't walk door to door.
She couldn't hear well. She couldn't make the phone calls, but she could cook.
And that's what she did.

Speaker 23 And so there's a role for everybody.

Speaker 23 Whether you're a graphic designer, whether you're a power walker, if you like to talk on the phone,

Speaker 23 if you're a great cook, reach out to an organization that does the work that you care about and say, put me in, coach. Send me to work.

Speaker 15 Kelly Copeland.

Speaker 15 Let me just say,

Speaker 15 for years when so many of us were saying Roe could be overturned and people called us hysterical.

Speaker 23 Oh, yes, the old hysterical.

Speaker 15 We're hysterical. Our uteruses are just taking over our brains.

Speaker 15 You have been fighting the fight. You have been teaching organizers how to organize.
You have been keeping women safe.

Speaker 15 And I just want to say, like, truly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much. You are a hero.

Speaker 23 It is a privilege.

Speaker 16 Sativa, Indica, Pod Save America.

Speaker 16 Abortion isn't the only thing on the ballot come November 7th. No, we're also talking about ganja, grass, jolly green, the devil's bouquet.

Speaker 16 That old giggle smoke, baby's bad broccoli.

Speaker 16 You know what I'm talking about. Ohioans are voting on the potential legalization of marijuana.

Speaker 16 From the smell in here, we already know where you stand.

Speaker 16 But how good is your memory, you stoners?

Speaker 16 We're about to find out in a game we're calling Reefer Madness.

Speaker 16 If you think you know a little something about the legal state of the wacky tobacco,

Speaker 16 Vendolin is out there. Let's get, can we get the house lights up?

Speaker 16 And if you want to answer a question, raise your hand.

Speaker 16 Hi, what's your name?

Speaker 6 Kyle. Kyle? Yeah.

Speaker 16 Okay, someone over there knows who you are.

Speaker 16 Okay, well, that's.

Speaker 16 Are you a celebrity in

Speaker 16 this place?

Speaker 6 Yeah, you know, I'm famous. Nice.
Kyle just got doxed.

Speaker 26 That was cool.

Speaker 16 John, you want to kick us off? Sure.

Speaker 6 Hi, Kyle. So, former Attorney General Jeff Sessions, remember him?

Speaker 6 Said he thought this group of people were, quote, okay until I found out they smoke pot.

Speaker 6 I know. What group was he referring to? Was it A, the KKK,

Speaker 6 B, the Black Panthers,

Speaker 6 C, the Branch Davidians at Waco,

Speaker 6 D, Black Lives Matter?

Speaker 6 Branch Davidians.

Speaker 6 Unfortunately.

Speaker 6 The answer is A, the KKK.

Speaker 14 The worst answer possible, Kyle.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 6 Sessions later tried to walk back his comment made in the early 80s saying he was joking.

Speaker 6 But it and similar comments cost him a federal judgeship in 1986, but then he ended up being attorney general. So

Speaker 6 that's that. Wild.

Speaker 16 Wild. Who's next? Somebody raise your hand.
This person did. Hi, what's your name?

Speaker 26 Natalie.

Speaker 6 Madeline? Natalie.

Speaker 16 Natalie? Yes.

Speaker 6 Natalie.

Speaker 16 Are you from Cleveland, Natalie?

Speaker 26 No, I'm not.

Speaker 16 Okay, Alyssa's got a question for you.

Speaker 15 Okay, are you ready?

Speaker 15 Which future president declared on the campaign trail, quote, leading medical researchers are coming to the conclusion that marijuana, pot, grass, whatever you want to call it, is probably the most dangerous drug in the United States, and we haven't begun to find out all of the ill effects, but they are permanent ill effects.

Speaker 26 Oh, I just have, I don't get choices.

Speaker 15 No, no, you have to just like, let me tell you something.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 15 This one's pretty straightforward.

Speaker 13 Drugs.

Speaker 6 Bad. Reagan.
There you go. Got it.

Speaker 6 Nice.

Speaker 6 Good cup. Who's up next?

Speaker 16 Hi, what's your name?

Speaker 23 Sarah.

Speaker 16 Sarah, as of 2022, marijuana was fully illegal, meaning there was no dispensation for any use in which four states.

Speaker 6 That's right.

Speaker 16 Just say four states.

Speaker 24 Four states where there's no dispensation.

Speaker 16 There's nothing. They've got nothing.

Speaker 6 Wow.

Speaker 6 No multiple choices. No multiple choice.
Okay.

Speaker 6 I mean, I can do it. I've got this one locked.

Speaker 16 Which of these is not one of the states?

Speaker 6 Sarah.

Speaker 16 Wyoming, Idaho, Kansas, Oklahoma, South Carolina.

Speaker 24 South Carolina.

Speaker 16 Wrong.

Speaker 16 It's Wyoming, Idaho, Kansas, and South Carolina. All four states have had multiple measures,

Speaker 16 but

Speaker 16 they didn't pass. They couldn't get them done.

Speaker 15 Bet they're very tightly wound.

Speaker 16 Could use some weed in some of those places. Hi, what's your name?

Speaker 6 Adam.

Speaker 16 Adam. Are you from Cleveland? Not originally.
Okay, Tommy?

Speaker 6 Okay, Adam.

Speaker 14 This future president said he never violated America's drug laws until he admitted he tried marijuana while overseas.

Speaker 6 A marijuana?

Speaker 14 This is a Republican question in that you have no choices.

Speaker 19 You just have to say it.

Speaker 6 That's a good joke.

Speaker 14 Thank you. I winged that one because the joke writers didn't give me options.

Speaker 6 Oh, sorry.

Speaker 16 My symbols to crash together for you, Tommy.

Speaker 6 Adam, refresh on your drink, perhaps? I'd love that.

Speaker 16 Adam, do you have a guess?

Speaker 23 I want to say Clinton.

Speaker 21 I know it's wrong.

Speaker 6 I'm going to go, oh, oh, shit.

Speaker 16 Trust yourself. Trust yourself, Adam.

Speaker 14 Nice.

Speaker 14 Answer, Bill Clinton in 1992, who said he didn't like it and didn't inhale.

Speaker 24 Come on. Yes, he did.

Speaker 6 Come on, Bill. I actually, like,

Speaker 16 I didn't realize the details of that story, which is that he was asked about drug use and said, I never violated the drug laws of this country.

Speaker 16 And then, when someone said, well, what about when you were in college at Oxford? He goes, yeah, I tried weed.

Speaker 16 And then there was a whole news cycle about how, like, it's not that he, it's not about the drugs, it's about his slickness.

Speaker 16 And it's like, what an era where, like, that was, that was, like, potentially disqualifying.

Speaker 15 It was kinder, gentler times.

Speaker 6 Were they wrong?

Speaker 16 I guess his slickness did prove to be an issue over the, over the long run.

Speaker 6 So to say. Famous.

Speaker 6 Famous. Both of

Speaker 25 Still too soon.

Speaker 6 Who's up next?

Speaker 26 Hi, I'm Deb.

Speaker 6 Hi, Deb.

Speaker 6 Okay, Deb, are you ready?

Speaker 26 Yes.

Speaker 21 This is not multiple choice. Okay.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 21 Meanwhile, which other president-to-be said this on his campaign trail? When I was a kid, I inhaled. That was the point.

Speaker 6 That was Barack Obama, wasn't it? Yes. That is correct.

Speaker 6 Nice.

Speaker 28 Talk about a man who could read the room.

Speaker 6 All right.

Speaker 6 Who do we got? Hi, my name's Claire. Hi, Claire.

Speaker 26 Hello.

Speaker 6 All right.

Speaker 6 This former Speaker of the House sponsored legislation that would have made bringing two ounces of marijuana into the country punishable by life imprisonment,

Speaker 6 or,

Speaker 6 if it's the second offense, the death penalty. What?

Speaker 6 What? Yeah.

Speaker 6 Mike Johnson?

Speaker 6 Not Mike Johnson.

Speaker 16 Good guess.

Speaker 6 I should have started with that.

Speaker 6 Gingrich as well. Yes.
Newt Gringrich. It was New Gingrich.
Wow. That is crazy.

Speaker 13 That man was trouble.

Speaker 17 That was the 90s, 1996.

Speaker 6 96. Marijuana, you're dead.
No.

Speaker 15 Contract of America was 94.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 15 Yeah.

Speaker 10 College. Country's nuts.
Nuts.

Speaker 6 It hasn't stopped. Got worse.

Speaker 15 Who's next? Hi, I'm Jesse.

Speaker 6 Hi, Jesse. Jesse, are you from Cleveland?

Speaker 26 I am from Kent.

Speaker 6 That's cool. All right.

Speaker 16 I guess that's close. Based on the context clues.

Speaker 26 Good job.

Speaker 15 Okay, you ready?

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 15 This is not multiple choice.

Speaker 15 When asked if he ever tried marijuana, this former Speaker of the House said, quote, that was a sign we were alive and in graduate school in that era.

Speaker 6 McCarthy?

Speaker 15 I mean,

Speaker 16 someone said, not a fan of Hints and Kent? It's Gink Ingrich.

Speaker 6 Gink Ingrich.

Speaker 15 Sorry, that was so unfair to you.

Speaker 14 I would have guessed Pelosi.

Speaker 6 I would have said Boehner. Someone who's talking about, yeah, that's great.
Boehner likes weed. Yeah, Boehner's a weed lobbyist now.

Speaker 15 Who doesn't now?

Speaker 15 Pfeiffer.

Speaker 6 All right, who's up next?

Speaker 16 Fucking Nark Pfeiffer.

Speaker 6 Hi.

Speaker 16 Mike Johnson of the group.

Speaker 16 Every group has a Mike Johnson in it. If you don't know who the Mike Johnson is in your group, look in the fucking mirror, pal.

Speaker 6 I can't see.

Speaker 16 Is anyone from Cleveland?

Speaker 16 Woo!

Speaker 6 And then.

Speaker 24 We have somebody here. What's your name?

Speaker 6 Zach.

Speaker 21 Zach.

Speaker 6 Over here, John.

Speaker 6 Zach's over there. To your right? No.
To your right?

Speaker 6 You see, vengeance. Furthermore,

Speaker 6 there you go.

Speaker 16 A meta-analysis of 36 papers dating from 2013 to 2021 published this year found that legalization of marijuana lowered the rates of A, suicide, B, binge drinking, C, traffic fatalities, D, cannabis use in teenagers, E, all of the above, or F, all the above, above, except for the teen thing.

Speaker 6 I'm going to go with E, all of the above.

Speaker 16 All the above. It turns out,

Speaker 16 it turns out that when weed is legalized and dispensed from an official location, it's harder for teens to get their hands on.

Speaker 16 Something to think about. Something to think about.

Speaker 21 Hi, what's your name?

Speaker 26 Megan.

Speaker 16 Hi, Megan.

Speaker 14 Are you from Cleveland, Megan?

Speaker 23 Ish.

Speaker 6 You are?

Speaker 6 Ish.

Speaker 16 You can't kind of be from somewhere.

Speaker 6 Not from there, but I live there.

Speaker 16 Where are you from?

Speaker 26 Northern Michigan, but

Speaker 6 I better Cleveland. Let's not food, Megan.

Speaker 6 Neg Carbaugh?

Speaker 17 I think

Speaker 17 we know each other, right?

Speaker 14 Just kidding.

Speaker 14 Which state governor said of marijuana in in 2007, quote, that's not a drug, that's a leaf. Adding in another interview, I smoke the marijuana, I always inhale.

Speaker 16 There's a hint inside of it for someone who would say, the marijuana.

Speaker 16 Think about someone saying it in a kind of action hero type of way.

Speaker 16 Would you say it's Nikki Haley?

Speaker 6 Oh.

Speaker 6 What? Arnold.

Speaker 23 Schwarzenegger. Yes.

Speaker 6 Oh.

Speaker 6 Yeah, they all did.

Speaker 16 Dan, take us home.

Speaker 6 Who do we got?

Speaker 25 Hello. My name is Lex, and I love you all.

Speaker 6 Thank you.

Speaker 6 But, Lex, I have to come.

Speaker 25 I literally live in the city of Cleveland. I was like someone.

Speaker 6 Oh, winner, winner.

Speaker 6 Finally. Aloha.

Speaker 6 Okay, here we go.

Speaker 21 If November's WE proposal passes here, Ohio would become what number state out of our 50 nifty to legalize recreational usage?

Speaker 25 Well, I spent a decade in Colorado, so I can't do math anymore.

Speaker 21 You're not making a case for the initiative.

Speaker 6 Fair.

Speaker 25 Let's go with

Speaker 25 26.

Speaker 21 Oh, so close.

Speaker 6 24. Oh, Alyssa added.

Speaker 16 But pretty good.

Speaker 6 Pretty good. But that is damn good.

Speaker 15 I give you tags on where it's legal.

Speaker 6 What?

Speaker 16 Who was talking? Oh, sorry. What did you say? No, no, we're good.

Speaker 6 Oh, come on.

Speaker 25 Let me talk to Alyssa. She's my favorite.

Speaker 6 Thank you.

Speaker 16 Lex, you've lost the game.

Speaker 15 But you've won my heart.

Speaker 16 Here in Cleveland, the greatest city in the world.

Speaker 16 John and the show.

Speaker 6 That's our show for tonight. Thank you to Amelia Sykes.
Thank you to Kelly Copeland. Thanks to Alyssa Matt for Monaco.
Thank you, Cleveland, and all the other places you came from.

Speaker 6 Hot Save America is a crooked media production. Our producers are Olivia Martinez and David Toledo.
Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Writing support from Hallie Kiefer.

Speaker 6 Reed Cherlin is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.

Speaker 6 Madeleine Heringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroote is our head of production.
Andy Taft is our executive assistant.

Speaker 6 Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman, David Toles, Kirill Pelavieve, and Molly Lobel.

Speaker 6 Subscribe to Pod Save America on YouTube to catch full episodes and extra video content. Find us at youtube.com slash at PodSaveAmerica.

Speaker 6 Finally, you can join our Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and a great discussion on Discord.

Speaker 6 Plus, it's a great way to get involved with Bodsave Save America. Sign up at crooket.com/slash friends.

Speaker 27 What is the secret to making great toast?

Speaker 24 Oh, you're just going to go in with the hard-hitting questions.

Speaker 27 I'm Dan Pashman from The Sporkful. We like to say it's not for foodies, it's for eaters.
We use food to learn about culture, history, and science.

Speaker 27 There was the time we looked into allegations of discrimination at bon appetite, or when I spent three years inventing a new pasta shape.

Speaker 28 It's a complex noodle that you've put together.

Speaker 27 Every episode of the Sporkful, you're going to learn something, feel something, and laugh. The Sporkful, get it wherever you get your podcasts.

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