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Welcome to Polité of America. I'm Jon Favreau.
I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's show, Donald Trump is taking his first arrest in stride.
Liberals take control of the Wisconsin Supreme Court for the first time in 15 years. Tennessee Republicans try to expel Democratic legislators for exercising their First Amendment rights.
And Chicago's mayor-elect Brandon Johnson tells us how he pulled off an upset in a tough race. Then Crooked's own Hallie Kiefer hits us with the most cringeworthy takes from the Trump arraignment.
But first, speaking of Hallie, she hosts an outstanding podcast that is the newest member of the Crooked family. It's called Ruined, and it's a show that caters to both horror movie buffs and scaredy cats.
Hallie and her squeamish friend and co-host Allison Libby unpack a different horror movie every week, from bone-chilling slashers to spine-tingling supernatural flicks. And for those of you like Allison, or me, who are too scared to watch, fear not, Hallie will ruin the movie for you.
Tune into Ruined every Tuesday for your weekly dose of horror available on all major podcast platforms. Do you like horror movies? Somewhere between you and a horror buff.
Really? Yeah. That's a big, well, I hate them.
I'm terrified because I'm terrified, but so that's a big, that's a big rant. This is a longer conversation.
Every once in a while, I stumble on a horror movie I'll watch because most of American cinema feels dead. And I like it, but I don't seek it out.
Well, I like this podcast because Hallie is hilarious and you don't actually have to watch so you can listen. And it's just a lot of funny takes about horror movies, which I think is fantastic.
I mean, isn't people not watching and listening kind of what we're going for just generally? It's our whole vibe. It's our whole vibe.
Don't tell Elijah. All right, let's get to the news.
On Tuesday night, twice impeached criminal defendant Donald Trump capped off what he's calling the best day in history with a deranged speech at Mar-a-Lago, the scene of another one of his potential crimes. The Republican presidential frontrunner rambled through his usual lies about the election he lost, the multiple investigations he's under and his many personal grievances.
Here are some highlights. And just recently, the FBI and DOJ in collusion with Twitter and Facebook in order not to say anything bad about the Hunter Biden laptop from hell, which exposes the Biden family as criminals and which, according to the pollsters, would have made a 17 point difference in the election result.
Yet Joe Biden took massive amounts more documents, even removed many boxes to Chinatown.

The criminal is the district attorney because he illegally leaked massive amounts of grand jury information

for which he should be prosecuted or at a minimum he should resign.

And Alvin Bragg's wife confirmed a report that claimed her husband has Trump nailed on felonies. She has since locked down her Twitter account.
I have a Trump-hating judge with a Trump-hating wife and family whose daughter worked for Kamala Harris and now receives money from the Biden-Harris campaign and a lot of it. She's doing everything in her power to indict me over an absolutely perfect phone call even more perfect than the one i made with the president of ukraine remember i kept saying that's a perfect call this lunatic special prosecutor named jack smith i wonder what it was prior to a change it is it is so funny to go through all of your crimes past present future your, future, your impeachments.
You just make sure you hit it all. He's really focused on the issues in this campaign this time around, right? He's just laser-like focused on the issues that matter to people.
With every passing day, his voice gets fainter and fainter the deeper he goes down the rabbit hole. You would really need a PhD in far-right MAGA media to understand anything that he is talking about.

Yeah, he is the most online person in the country.

So we got some expert legal analysis on the unsealed indictment from our friends at Strict Scrutiny on Tuesday night.

So you and I get to talk about the politics, which is all we're good at. It's at least where I feel most comfortable.
And I don't even know if I use the word good, but... So now that we know more about the charges, the case, and the political world's reaction, do you think anything has changed? I think it'd be somewhat naive to think that the additional information we got from the charging documents is going to dramatically change the polls, which sort of seems to suggest in this snapshot moment that the anti-Trump majority in the country doesn't really like Trump.
They didn't like him before. They still don't like him.
Trump fans that dominate the Republican primary electorate view this as yet another reason to – they're certainly not dissuaded from their support of Trump, and it probably is even helping him in the primary – in the short term. What I think we can't really know is how this will play out over the long term because there is a little bit of like a water-on-rock phenomenon if we spend the next six months, 18 months just talking constantly about Trump's legal challenges, his various indictments, his court dates, images, you know, the court drawings of him, him like sitting at the defendant table.

Like what that will do both to the small sliver of the general electorate that is persuadable and that group of Republicans that we know actually makes a – at least prior to this made a majority of people who like Trump but were open to another candidate? Like what will that mean to them? And I think that's – you can't really predict that. I think it will – it's very dynamic.
It could have a real effect. It will take a little bit of time I think.
Look, I think that that small sliver of persuadable voters is looking for a president who has sat as a criminal defendant in court. They like that.
That's what they're looking for. Like, that guy is going to fight for me.
So there are some legal experts, including left-leaning legal experts, who I think have gone a little wobbly on the merits of the case. Oh, do you have some legal analysis despite that intro there? Well, I'm just saying, I've noticed it, right? And I do think that that has influenced the media coverage and also sort of emboldened Trump and his goons even more than they already would have been emboldened.
On the merits, like I very much agree with Leah and Kate's analysis on the merits of the case, as well as the analysis of all the legal experts who have actually brought these kinds of cases in New York State before. But I'd also say that a lot of the experts who don't think Bragg should have brought this case admit that they're mostly worried about the political ramifications of indicting a former president for this particular crime.
And like that, I strongly disagree with. And it's that we've now been doing this since the Mueller days, since before that, where like people whose expertise is in legal matters think a lot about the politics.
And I just don't think I agree with you like i just don't think we know what the political ramifications are but like let's say trump gets the case thrown out or he's found not guilty yes he and the entire mega establishment are going to scream about exoneration and this was just another democrat witch hunt uh against me and blah blah blah and the press is gonna say oh trump is emboldened blah blah blah but like and just exactly what happened when the muller report came out and bill barr decided to summarize it before it actually came out and everyone said the clouds were lifted remember that that? Oh, Donald Trump is strengthened.

Now he's going to win re-election.

And then what happened?

He lost.

He lost.

So I just want to like everyone should be prepared for the fact that like Donald Trump, he could be found not guilty.

They could throw the case out of court.

We might get more indictments. We might not get more indictments.

They might lead to guilty verdicts.

They might not. But like it's just like you said, the guy lost the 2020 election.
A second Trump term is absolutely terrifying, but Donald Trump is not political Teflon. He's just not.
I mean, because he's only ever won one election and his party's lost every single election since then. Right.
It's just like there's this fear donald trump's political strength that just would not be like people would not be having this for any other person or any other politician i mean we're there's still a national ptsd particularly among political prognosticators about 2016 because we were so wrong about that that you can – the natural – you're like almost insulating yourself from it. We should – like we don't know what's going to happen.
Any person who wins the Republican nomination, whether it's Ron DeSantis, Donald Trump, a cardboard cutout of Spiro Agnew has a near coin flip chance of winning the presidential election in this political environment with this electoral college. That is just a fact.
Yeah. Yeah.
But there is just no way that it is possible that getting indicted doesn't hurt him a ton, but it's not going to help him. That is just not how it works.
And if he wins this Republican nomination going away, it's not because he got indicted. It's because he was going to win anyway.
That's why. He was just simply too strong for the collection of yahoos who decided to run against him.
And it's not that complicated. It's just he will win in spite of, not because of

the indictment. And also, and we've said this a million times before, whether or not he's found

guilty of this crime or other crimes, it is very likely that a jury won't end his political career.

it will be up to the voters. It is the voters, not the jury that we have to focus on here.
So we should just let the legal process play out. And if he gets off, no one freak out.
Just saying it now. I'm sure no one will freak out.
Because you said it i was thinking about it this morning just imagining the case getting thrown everything we we we said that they shouldn't have brought this case alvin bragg ruined everything and the whole election now donald trump's gonna win i just i cannot if twitter still exists then which is an open question the amount of people of like legal pundit types that will just tweet, leaving this right here, it'll be their tweet from April. Yeah, why they thought Alvin Bragg shouldn't have brought the case.
It's like, fuck off. Okay.
Do you think Trump won a lot of persuadable voters by using his primetime speech to remind people of all the things he's being investigated for and then attack a prosecutor, a judge, and their families? Do you think that's a good campaign message for 2024? I would – this is one of those times where if we had an always-on Democratic progressive advertising effort, you would take parts of that speech and you would share with the voters. Just like every 60 days between now and the election, you just remind them one time.
Just like 15 seconds at the top of a YouTube video or something. Just everyone should see it because there is no one who is truly persuadable who saw that speech who would think that man should be president of the United States.
It's like how many – this is my question. How many non-MAGA voters want to sign up for a campaign that is basically just a kamikaze mission to avenge Donald Trump.
That's the whole campaign now. I know they put out a bunch of policy papers early on because he's trying to outflank DeSantis on the right.
No one knows about any of that. That's all getting buried.
Now that he's under, this is where the indictment might hurt him because all he's going to talk about, all he seems able to talk about is himself, his grievances, his problems. That's it.
At least in 2016, he was talking about other people's grievances. Now he's just talking about his own grievances.
That's all. That's all we got left.
It was like a 25-minute rambling speech about himself, his problems. Woe is me.

I'm a victim.

That's all he's got.

I don't know.

It doesn't feel like a strong message to me.

Maybe it'll change.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel strong.

Trump also said he wants Republicans to defund the FBI and the DOJ.

And a lot of MAGA politicians and Fox pundits are openly calling for Republican

prosecutors to indict the Bidens, the Clintons, Obama, basically any Democrat. What do you think about that? We talked to Kate and Leah about this Tuesday night, but it certainly seems worrisome, but again, not really a message that will resonate with a lot of folks.
Yeah, I don't think a party whose main goal is either helping Donald Trump commit his crimes or trying to refight political battles dating back to the 90s is going to be particularly resonant. Like, that doesn't seem where most of the electorate would be.
I am, given the incentives of Republican politics, maybe I hope Kate and Leah are right that the law is very constraining here. It's pretty hard to – like when James Comer, the Republican head of the Oversight Committee, said that he had taken calls from prosecutors in Kentucky and some other red state looking for ways to indict the Clintons or Biden, you have to find actual crimes.
I'm not sure what that would be, but it does speak to the dangerous sort of mentality we would have if Trump were to win. Maybe that's the way to think about it.
It's not what are they going to do right now with the rule prosecutor and wherever. It's how are they going to weaponize law enforcement if they get power again? And that's a scary thing.
And that's something worth talking about as this election unfolds. Trump's next attorney general will make Bill Barr look like Merrick Garland.
Like it's, I mean, it's going to be- Ponderous? I know there's not a lot of Merrick, but like it is, it is going to be, I mean, you know, it's going to be what? Like like Charlie Kirk's going to be the next. It's going to be Boris Epstein.
It's going to be Boris Epstein. I mean, we are in I'm laughing now, but it is truly like talking about the guardrails being off.
Man, it's going to be all revenge all the time. That's the whole purpose of a second Trump

presidency. So prosecutors say they want Trump to stand trial in January of 2024.
The defense, Trump's defense say they want it in spring of 2024. The judge seemed to think, well, we'll figure it out later.
But how is this going to work in the middle of a campaign? Not great, I would say.

I mean, January 2024 is the run up to the Iowa caucus, which then kicks off a near weekly succession of primary contests that will decide the nomination, probably by spring of 2024, which may be why Trump wants it then. I know, I was trying to figure about why he wanted it in spring of 2024, because you're right.
It saves him from the primary issue. But then it's like the beginning of the general election campaign when you think voters would be least amenable to Donald Trump sitting in court every day during his campaign against Joe Biden.
John, when you're scheduling your criminal prosecution in Mr. President, there are a lot of awesome options, right? It's like, what's better, fall of 24? When's the down period? Yeah, I'm sure if he could ask for spring of 2025, he would do that, but that's probably not a credible request.
Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, I'm sure he wants to push it until late November 2024. Yeah, I mean, I honestly cannot believe we're having a conversation about the logistics of this, But logistically, Trump, if he is going to win, likely locks up the nomination in the spring because Republican contests are winner-take-all.
So you can get to an insurmountable delegate lead pretty quickly after a bunch of the big states happen like Texas. So if it's happening in May, he is either the nominee or he's lost.
That's probably what has happened. But if it's in – like either way, we're scheduling debates.
Republicans are – not us. We are not hosting a Republican debate.
We should, but I don't think they would agree. Although if we just said the crooked – The invitation is out there.
Open invitation, everyone. Yes.
Debates, just like being in Iowa or New Hampshire, if it's in that January time period, is going to be tremendously challenging. It's actually challenging for Trump's opponents, too.
If they have not yet gained real traction, how are they going to break through with 24-7 coverage, particularly in the MAGA media, of Trump's criminal prosecution for paying hush money to cover up an affair. You think like you can see Asa Hutchinson

trying to give a speech on his like tax cut agenda.

Man, I can't believe we're going to go through this.

So most elected Democrats didn't say a whole lot

about Trump's arrest on Tuesday

beyond the very standard now.

No one is above the law.

That's sort of the standard line.

I don't think anyone believes

that Republicans would be shy

if the Democratic front runner for president was arrested. What do you think? You think they'd say, oh, no one is above the law.
Let's let the legal process play out. Yeah, it's funny, right? No one could imagine them saying that.
Are Democrats missing an opportunity here? What do you think? Yes and no, which is a really strong thing. Like, right, right.
Real pundit over here. I mean, eventually, yes.
I mean, right now, there is a tsunami of news coverage about this. No one is missing this story.
And the idea that we're like, why are Democrats not spitting in the ocean right now? Like, who cares? Like, it does not. What would a Dick Durbin press conference do to, like, knock this thing over the finish line? I don't know if I'd send Dick Durbin out there.
I don't know if anyone's disrespect. Imagine, other than Joe Biden, who we stipulate should not be talking about this.
Could you just imagine what the norm fetishists in the press would do if Joe Biden mentioned this? They're already writing op-eds about how Alvin Bragg shouldn't have brought the case. This just gives them another couple op-eds.
And to be clear, this is not Merrick Garland. Alvin Bragg does not work for Joe Biden.
There's not some norm that says he shouldn't comment on it. But if he were to, it would be an annoying distraction.
But let's just say every member of the House and Senate leadership got together and did a press conference together in the Senate press gallery,

and they invited everyone. Like what difference? I'm already cringing at this.
Yeah. Like what? What's the step in repeat say? Just like what would that do? Having said that, there's nothing in the polling, and I wrote about this in message box last week or earlier this week, or at some point before, at some point that

there's nothing in the polling, and I wrote about this in MessageBox last week or earlier this week or at some point that there's nothing that suggests that Democrats should be afraid of this. Like it's not going to hurt us.
And I think there is a way that when we talk about, so I would think about two ways to talk about it. One is in the run-ups of 2020, like we talked a lot about how a message you can use against trump is chaos and corruption it's now sort of chaos corruption and criminality and it's just like that is the chaos it's like at another c yeah great alliteration that's a real speech writer trick if you will um and so like it should be part of it like do we need this we have serious problems you really need a president who's dealing with this shit but i think we should attack it's like do you does everyone really want to go back in time to 2016 and do another four years of this bullshit, which is now on steroids because now he's a fucking criminal defendant? Okay, yeah, great.
But I think attacking all the Republicans for helping Trump and branding him as mag extremists is the way in which Democrats should be aggressive about this. Yeah, no, I agree.
And certainly, besides Asa Hutchinson and, I guess, Chris Christie, not many Republicans who were jumping on this. Asa Hutchinson and Chris Christie, future Bulwark podcasters.
Hey, I love the Bulwark. I know.
I do, too. I do, too.
I just think they're going to host a podcast. It's called We Were Wrong, debuting in 2025.
Honestly, I think at this point,

the bulwark won't let them.

Yeah, that's probably true.

That is probably true.

They will not be inviting them.

Tim Miller will be chaining himself

to the studio door to keep them from getting in.

Yeah, yeah, especially Chris Christie.

Okay, I also saw,

maybe this is just my own beef,

but I saw a lot of liberals complaining

that the media is repeating the same mistakes

they made in 2016

by devoting so much coverage to Trump and his crimes

I'm sorry. a lot of liberals complaining that the media is repeating the same mistakes they made in 2016 by devoting so much coverage to Trump and his crimes.
And look, I certainly thought the OJS coverage of Donald Trump's arraignment was like beyond parody. You know, the like, let's get him on the highway from Mar-a-Lago to the airplane.

Let's watch the airplane take off and all that.

I mean, it was ridiculous.

But I kind of think the coverage is warranted.

I don't know.

What do you think?

I think we have to stop thinking about major media companies owned by large multinational corporations as public service entities.

Yes, of course.

These are businesses who need to make money.

And people tuned into this story. Two million people watch CNN on the night of the indictment.
CNN hasn't scratched a million viewers in like seven months. This is, of course, they're going to do this.
And this podcast gets more listens than most CNN programs. I'm sure we're not going to hear from anyone about that.

Check your DMs, John.

And so, of course, they're going to cover it.

People want to watch it.

That is going to happen.

I think the way in which Democrats and some liberals are freaking out about this

is a misunderstanding of how Trump weaponizes attention.

In the Republican primary, there's no question that Donald Trump's monopoly of attention is to his huge advantage because those people like Trump. When you widen the aperture to the larger electorate, most of them don't like Trump.
And so the more he reminds them of the things they don't like about him, the worse he does. And I think think there's when we go back to 2016, I think a smart political person said this to me the other day, and I think it's really an important insight into how that election went.
Trump did not win the 2016 election against Hillary Clinton because he dominated attention. He lost it because the attention shifted to Hillary at the end because of Jim Comey and the revelations and the hacked emails.
And because the focus was on her, not him, he won. She lost.
My biggest complaint about the media coverage in 2016 was the email coverage, not the Donald Trump coverage. Because I think the email coverage and the coverage of Hillary is why we lost or it contributed to why we lost way more.
Every time you can look at the polls over the years and Donald Trump's approval rating, whenever he's in the news, whenever he's tweeting, whenever he's giving interviews, whenever he opens his stupid fucking mouth, his poll numbers go down among a general electorate, not among the Republican base, but yeah, among the general. You can map either Google Trends data or other data that like word clouds with Trump's approval rating.
And the fluctuations are not gigantic because of polarization, but attention is not his friend in a general election. I will also say the Republican frontrunner for president is a deranged demagogue that could very easily become president again.
And there is no more important story than what will happen in this country and the world if he wins again to cover. There's no more important story.
There's a lot of people like, oh, you got to cut and we're going to talk about Tennessee. We're going to talk about a lot of other things.
But like everything that's happening around the country, all the bad things, it's going to be fucking amplified by a million if Donald Trump becomes president again. It is extremely important to cover what's happening.
Again, is it important to cover his plane ride? No, it is not important to cover his plane ride. But when Donald Trump does something, it is worth covering because the Republican Party very well could make him the nominee.
He is the front runner. And therefore, like you just said earlier, he's like, you know, 30, 40,000 votes away from becoming president again because of how closely divided the country is.
Twice as many people were in the stadium for the final four than the number of voters who decided the 2020 election. Yeah.
Yeah. So that's why you cover him.
All right. Let's talk about an even bigger legal victory from Tuesday.
Judge Janet Protosiewicz won a landslide victory in her race to become the next justice on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, where there will now be a 4- three liberal majority for the first time in 15 years. She trounced right wing judge Dan Kelly by 10 points in a campaign where she was unapologetic in her embrace of abortion rights, fair maps and other progressive values.
Huge. You want to talk about what happens now that the Wisconsin Supreme Court has a liberal majority? We constantly said that this was the most important election in 2023.
Obviously, we do apologies to Democratic governor of Kentucky who's up for election this year, but it matters a lot. And here are three ways it's going to matter for the people of Wisconsin and the nation.
The first is abortion. Wisconsin is relying on a nearly two centuries old law to ban abortion in the state that is of dubious legal value.
And now you will have a pro-choice majority on the Supreme Court who will rule on that law. Second, Wisconsin is perhaps the most gerrymandered state in the country.
There's a state that the last two presidential elections has been decided by less than a half of a percent of a vote, yet the Republicans have a 60-40 majority in the legislature. And one of the groups that works on gerrymandering said that they are going to file a case the day she is sworn in to revisit those maps.
So you could have different state legislative maps, different congressional maps in Wisconsin up for the election in 2024. And then Wisconsin is where much of the shenanigans trying to overturn the election happen.
Efforts to fake voter fraud investigations, fake electors, alternate electors. And Dan Kelly, had he been elected, was someone who participated in the scheme to steal the election for Donald Trump.
If he was on the Supreme Court, if there was a MAGA majority on the Supreme Court, the odds that someone other than the winner of Wisconsin's popular vote got the electoral votes would go way up. And so this is just like some of the really important victories in 2022 we had in Secretary of State offices and Governor's offices.
By putting this majority on this court, we are cutting off yet another way in which the 2024 election could be overturned by a bunch of MAGA insurrectionists. Yeah, and you don't have to believe us on that.
The Stop the Steal organizer, Ellie Alexander, tweeted after the race was called, because she won, now our path to 270 has been severely constrained because I don't think we can win Wisconsin because we can't steal Wisconsin anymore. I mean, that's how they think.
I should just note, too, because some people were asking. There was a state Senate race in Wisconsin that took place Tuesday night as well, where because of these severely gerrymandered maps, a Republican won.
And although, you know, it was a severely gerrymandered district and still only won by like a point. And so that gives Republicans in the state Senate in Wisconsin, a super majority.
And there is some concern that with a super majority, they can impeach Justice Protisawitz. But I think there's some, there's, there's some confusion over whether you need a two-thirds majority in both the House and the Senate, the General Assembly and the Senate, or a simple majority in the House or the Senate.
But either way, the Republican state Senate leader said, absolutely not. We will not be impeaching Janet Protosawitz.
And if they did for some reason, Governor Tony Evers would simply just get to replace the justice. So some people were freaked out about that, just putting that to rest so everyone can sleep easy.
We should also say a huge thank you to Vote Save America, the Vote Save America community. You donated $114,000 for voter turnout, and we saw the highest turnout ever in a spring Supreme Court election in Wisconsin.
There was 490 of you who signed up for virtual volunteer signups and made 50,000 voter contacts. And that's including the five to six doors Lovett and I knocked on when we were in Madison.
I just wanted to thank you guys for going to Wisconsin. Honestly, I had such a good time.
It was 10 degrees. It was snowing.
But I will eat Wisconsin food anytime. And the people of Madison are lovely.
What a great town. I knew that it must have been very cold because in all of the photos and social clips from that visit, you both had your hats on inside the whole time.
It was so cold. And I was so stupid, I didn't bring gloves.
And my hands were frozen. And also thanks to the Vote Save America team, our team at Crooked who went and worked on this.
The Strict Scrutiny team also did a show there, Thanks to the whole Strict Scrutiny team, and the 900 people who came to our show on a Saturday night in the cold, including Judge Protisawitz. So thank you to everyone.
There was some anxiety before Election Day in Wisconsin that Trump's indictment would fuel turnout because of all the pissed-off MAGA voters. Why don't you think that happened? And do you think Trump was a factor at all in this race? Obviously, he endorsed Dan Kelly and Dan Kelly's last 10-point defeat, double-digit defeat.
He did not endorse him this time around, probably because Dan Kelly didn't want him to. But do you think he loomed over the race? Don Trump has loomed over every single campaign since he was elected president in 2016.
And the closer a candidate is on the ideological spectrum towards Trump, the more likely they are to lose. That has been borne out time and time again.
And so whether he endorsed them or showed up does not matter. It actually shows just how much of an albatross Trump is to his party, that even when he doesn't show up, they still pay a price.
Now, in terms of turnout, I think there is a kind of misunderstanding of the Trump base, the Trump voter by a lot of political analysts. I think there is definitely a group that is highly political engaged, that lives inside the Fox News fever dream, who understood every word of that deranged speech Trump gave, but they vote anyways.
They are the equivalent, they're the right-wing equivalent of our voters who turn out every time. Trump's political power is in this other group of people who did not previously vote, who do not turn out for Republicans not named Trump, who are actually not highly engaged political people.
They're not watching Tucker Carlson. They may agree with Tucker Carlson on a lot of things, but they're adjacent to the fever swamp.
And those people are not on truth social. They're not consuming this.
This is not a huge part of their life. And it's not sufficient to motivate them to turn out.
They vote for Trump in part because it's a protest vote against an establishment they don't trust, a whole host of reasons, but it's not necessarily vengeance against Alvin Bragg. And so that's why it probably didn't show up in this election.
And I think those people could very well turn out when Trump is on the back. Yes.
Yes, they did in 2020. We should all, where they did in 2020, they did in 2016.
And so I think, I think Republicans are getting the worst of all worlds here because on races where Trump is not on the ballot, he is still a factor in the race, but you don't get the turnout that you get from Trump being on the ballot. Yeah.
And it just, to get, to put this in some perspective, like here are three numbers to think about is why this, we shouldn't do too big a conclusion from this. 1.8 million people voted in this election, which is a gigantic number for an election like this.
Stunning. But 2.6 million people voted in the Tony Ivers race in last November and 3.2 million voted in the presidential election in 2020 in Wisconsin.
So there is a huge swath of the state not represented here. And there are a lot of just by pure demographic profiling, a lot of potential Trump voters in that group.
Yes. Any other lessons or takeaways from this race other than the fact that we need to clone Ben Wickler and the entire Wisconsin Democratic Party for all 50 states? Two quick lessons.
Once again, Democrats should not be afraid to aggressively run on abortion as an issue. Dobbs has changed everything in American politics.
It's opened people's eyes to the power of this issue. I think abortion has played two big roles.
And one is even for people insulated from the impact of elections because of privilege or race or economic stature, they had a constitutional right taken away from them or someone in their family by this court. And that's real.
It has engaged a group of people who may not have otherwise engaged in politics, at least in elections like this one. And second, it gave a real world consequence to electing a MAGA extremist.
Now we know the danger. And Celinda Lake had had this quote in this Rebecca Traster piece that in her polling, the country is now 15% more pro-choice post-Obs than it was before.
And so this should be a part of every campaign should be big. The second lesson is, I wish we could clone Ben Wickler.
He is, but I also sometimes feel like he is such a dynamic force in and of himself that just telling every party chair to be like Ben Wickler is like impossible advice. Like you can't actually do that.
Probably pretty annoying to them too. Yeah, I can imagine.
But there is one thing that Ben Wickler has done that I think every single state party chair should emulate, which is after 2020, Ben Wickler made it his priority to convince his donors to become recurring donors. So even if you're going to give $120 a year to the Wisconsin party, give it in $10 monthly donations.
And what that means is the party has a sustainable source of revenue. They can invest and plan over the long term.
And money spent early is worth way more than money spent late. And so this is how you win elections like this, is that when the after 2022 was over, it wasn't like the campaign headquarters emptied, there was no more money coming in the door, is Ben had a recurring set of donors who allowed him to keep organizers on the ground to keep working on this race.
And Democrats have built this gigantic fundraising machine, but it's boom or bust. And it's very hard to predict.
A big thing in the news happens, money flows in, late money flows in. But if you're running a race or building a party, you don't know when that money's coming.
So you end up spending most of it on television ads of greatly diminishing returns. So if you're a donor or an operative, state party chair, try to get your donors to become recurring donors that you can build the sort of infrastructure Ben has built.
Yeah, I do think a couple of things. Organizing works.
Do not give up on heavily gerrymandered states, even with Republican supermajorities. I don't know how many times we've had the conversation about Wisconsin and it's, you know, this is, this state doesn't even look like a democracy anymore.
We don't know how to get out of this. There's Republican, you know, Ben, the volunteers, the organizers in Wisconsin, like they didn't give up.
They found a way. The Supreme court race was the way in other States.
It'll be different, but like, no one should just throw up their hands at gerrymanders and say, well, we can't do anything because of a gerrymander. And so we're screwed.
There's always there's always a way. I also think that like between Trumpy extremism and abortion extremism, like the Republican Party is in some big fucking trouble.
We just saw like yesterday, Governor Whitmer in Michigan signed a bill killing the like another decades, centuries old abortion ban in that state. And you know what? Ron DeSantis is about to sign a six week abortion ban in Florida after, you know, doing the more, quote unquote, moderate 15 week abortion ban, which isn't moderate at all before that.
And why did Ron DeSantis do that? Because he's probably thinking, oh, well, I have to do I have to go back to six weeks in order to win this Republican primary. Well, guess what? That's going to be a real fucking problem for him in a general election.
And they're all like this now. And you're starting to hear in Republican circles and conservative circles that the full out ban on abortion is really hurting them and they're starting to

realize this. I don't think they're going to be able to walk it back at this point.
You know, there's Republican legislators in South Carolina proposing that women should get the death penalty if they have an abortion. So clearly the extremism is out there.
But this is a real fucking problem for them, I think, in 2024. That plus the Trumpy election denial extremism as well.
Those two issues, the democracy and abortion, same issues that won Democrats. The 2022 midterms are still very much in play, if not more so for 2024.
And I also think, too, that like, look, Dane County, where Madison is incredible turnout, incredible margins, even even better than Biden in 2020. And obviously, it's a spring election, so it's a different turnout model than you get in a presidential.
But I heard, speaking of Tim Miller, I heard him talking about this on The Bulwark too. Even if you took away all of Protosawitz's votes in Dane County, she still would have won.
And that's mainly because the suburban counties around Milwaukee that usually go heavily Republican, it's usually how Republicans win the state, they're turning much bluer. Republicans barely won them in this race.
And non-college voters elsewhere all across the state are voting less Republican or not giving Republicans the margins they were used to in this. And part of that is, again, the abortion issue that we're seeing in these highly educated suburbs and even elsewhere that's really hurting Republicans.
All right. So voters may have saved democracy in Wisconsin, but it's certainly seen better days in Tennessee.
Last week, thousands of students and parents led a peaceful protest at the Nashville Statehouse to call for action on gun violence after the horrific school shooting that left six people dead, including three nine year olds. Three Democratic lawmakers led the protesters in a chant on the House floor.
And for that, Republicans are now holding a vote today to expel those three Democrats from the state legislature, a resolution that requires a two thirds majority, which Republicans currently have. You know, like the word authoritarianism gets thrown around a lot these days, but like, I'm not sure what else to call expelling democratically elected representatives from the legislature just for exercising their constitutional rights.
Do you? Yeah. I mean, this is, this is the future.
Like these things, the way these things have been playing out for a decade in the Republican Party is some seemingly completely insane thing happens. Just like a never before seen unprecedented breach of democracy.
And then it just becomes normal course of business for Republicans. So this is after Roy Cooper won in 2016 and the state legislature tried to take all of his powers away before he got to be seated in office.
Then they did try to do the same thing. Wisconsin, Tony Evers are doing it everywhere.
And so this is we should this is likely the first of similar efforts where they where they can do it. It's not even that dissimilar to what Kevin McCarthy tried to do or did do to three Democrats in the House to kick them off their committees, which was the full extent of his power to do that.
He couldn't expel them, but if he could, he certainly would have. And, you know, Republicans are calling it an insurrection.
They're comparing it to January 6th, and it's like, yeah. Oh, fuck off.
I know, I know. It's so fucking gross.
And, like, yes, it was rowdy, and they spoke out of turnbill. There's ways to, like, if they wanted to still would have been bullshit to like discipline members do this.
Expelling democratically. These people, people of Tennessee sent these people to the legislature.
They voted for them and now they're getting expelled just because Republicans don't like that. They put pressure on them to do something about gun violence when there was a massacre at a school not just a couple weeks earlier it is totally it is anti-democratic it is anti-american it's it's wild it is wild free speech warriors over there in the republican party yeah yeah cancel culture so people are like wondering what will happen here if they and again, they could be voting right now, voting by the time you hear this podcast.
But if they expel them, there will be special elections. Those three legislators can run again for their seats and get right back into the legislature.
So like this is it is horrific and it is also just like, it doesn't even have, it doesn't even have an actual outcome that they want here. Like these people are just, like there's going to be Democratic legislators who just come back, if not these, and probably these three Democratic lawmakers.
And I'm sure by bigger margins because they're in heavily Democratic, diverse districts. That's another thing.
Two of the legislators are black, one is a woman, and they all represent heavily Democratic, diverse areas of Tennessee. And the Republicans in the legislature are now just saying they want to disenfranchise those voters because they don't like what those people said.
It is pretty bullshit. And you're right.
And the concern now is there's supermajorities in other states. And, you know, the laws could be different and the rules could be different in different state legislatures.
But like our other Republican super majorities going to start, you know, expelling Democratic legislators just because they can. That's where we are now.
Yes. Republicans everywhere.
Just they are just using their power just because they can to silence Democratic voices. It is wild.

All right, well, we're going to get to happier news after the break. We have Chicago's new mayor-elect, Brandon Johnson,

who will talk to Dan right after this. Love a Carl's Jr.
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Mayor-elect Johnson, welcome to the pod. Hey, thanks for having me.
This is pretty exciting. Well, congratulations, sir.
Do you feel a little bit like the dog that caught the car? I mean, it's certainly humbling. You know, you work very hard, you know, throughout any campaign to get to this moment.
And you don't think about it when you're going through the process. But all of the conversations that I've had over the course of this run, you know, led up to what obviously is a very remarkable moment for the city of Chicago and particularly for the progressive movement.
So, you know, very thrilled, very humbled, but I also recognize that when I announced back in October, you know, that wasn't the entry point into this larger political movement, right? Like this is part of the beneficiary of the movement. But yeah, I mean, it's exhilarating.
Certainly it is. I think a lot of people, at least a lot of pundits and prognosticators, a group that's never been wrong before, was surprised by your victory.
They expected your opponent to win, or they would be much closer. How did you pull it off? What was key to your strategy? Well, first of all, I mean, I think as Democrats and particularly as progressive Democrats, we don't have to hide our values, right? In many instances, you know how this stuff works, where there's a particular poll and then you have pollsters who tell you what your message should be.
And I'm not saying that you shouldn't have that particular component. I'm not saying that you just run out here without having any sort of science or method to the work.
But what I am saying is that we don't give voters enough credit, that these false choices that our spaces are oftentimes left with, this is certainly proof that we can have a far more robust conversation about what we know works. And we don't have to be afraid of our values, right? So I think what they got wrong is what they typically, in some instances, have attempted to get right.
But as a result of that, we have narrowed our conversations and it's limited the amount of people who actually engage. Right.
And so because we were actually saying out loud, identifying our pain, people who would have not never, that might be hyperbole, but people who would be reluctant to engage, you know, finally heard what they've been feeling. And they're like, yo, I could sign up for that.
Right. So that type of excitement and energy is something that you can't calculate necessarily in a poll.
And that is what I believe pundits may have gotten wrong. The ability to actually speak truth to truth and power to power, and that it would be enough to mobilize people to actually get out and vote and get other people to vote as well.
National political reporters and the press viewed this election largely through the prism of crime and what role crime would play. And I do want to ask you about that, but I want to start with an issue that I know is more near and dear to your heart, which is education.
You're a former teacher. You've worked with the teachers union.
What impact did education have in this campaign? How did you talk about it? How did you use it as a way to mobilize a broad coalition to win? Well, here in Chicago, mayoral control has been an absolute disaster. And it's something that I know has been a political battle, not just here in Chicago, but around the country.

And because there's have been a great deal of destruction around public education, where we've created, you know, these stratified systems where those who apply or have certain elements of, I don't know, proof that they are human, I guess, that that gives them better access to a fully funded, well-rounded curriculum. But unfortunately, it has left a trail of destruction, right? School closings, privatization, the loss of the middle class positions, particularly for women, especially black women.
And because of that type of despair that has been sort of the prevailing form of governance, people understood that my position aligned with everyday people. My children attend the public schools.
I'm a product of public education. And so, of course, my opponent, who essentially embodied the antithesis to our belief of a well-rounded education system in which Democrats can certainly get behind and understand that we should not have a system where people have to apply for something that is ostensibly free.
And then people saw me as a very credible witness to the goals and desires of everyday people. And then as a result, we were able to capture a number of people who understood that this election was certainly not just a repudiation of the failures of the past, but really an opportunity to build a better, stronger system in which no matter where you live in the city, that type of quality of education and expectation can be realized through an office where the person who was there, myself, actually believes in it.
Yeah, I think it's a very unique situation to have someone who had actually taught in the classroom now be in City Hall. And so maybe if you talk a little with some specifics about what it is you would change, it would bring a different approach based on your experience as a teacher to education in the Chicago Public Schools.
Well, one of the dynamics that I believe, you know, comes up a lot, and we don't really spend enough time really digging into it, is funding, right? Look, when you love someone or something, you invest in it. And we have a funding formula that I was a part of the organizing effort to change in Springfield.
And that funding formula articulated the importance of funding based on need and not per pupil. So it calls for a more equitable distribution of the resources, right? And it's not just about how many children you have in a particular room or a building, but it's about what those needs are.
And that funding formula has not been embraced here in the city of Chicago. I'm going to embrace that funding formula.
Here's what you get, an additional $1 billion. Right.
And so that was something that distinguished me right away. The second thing is I've been talking a lot about treatment over the trauma.
And we don't spend enough time really digging into how impactful living in poverty, the impact that that really has on young people. We just expect people to show up every single day, regardless of their lived experiences and their living conditions, and be able to perform at a high function without taking into account that, you know, we have 20,000 students who are unhoused.
You know, the amount of gun violence that happens in places where schools have been closed. And so providing mental health services, making sure that the education system is also providing support for housing and affordable housing.
It's a holistic response to education. Children shouldn't be confined to a bubble sheet.
That's the last component, A well-rounded curriculum that includes the trades, but also sports and arts. These are the dynamics that are missing from our education systems across America.
And in Chicago, under my administration, these are the type of investments that I'm going to make to provide an education system that is inclusive, but it is well-rounded as well. There are a lot of people who talk about education, but what they always run into is the funding issue.
What is your plan to find the money you're going to need to make the education better to offer some of those extracurricular activities like sports and arts? Well, two-thirds of corporations in the year 2022, actually it was 70%, technically 70% of corporations in 2022 did not pay a corporate tax. I mean, we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars that we are literally leaving out of our education system.
And what happens is the lazy form of governance in which we tend to over rely upon property taxes as the means to fund our school system. It's just not sustainable.
Right. I mean, I appreciated what President Biden articulated in his State of the Union address.
He said that a teacher and a firefighter should not pay the same tax rate as a billionaire. Like these are these are fundamental values that we have as Democrats.
I'm not even sure that we should confine it to the progressive wing of our party. That's right.
Democrats believe that an equitable distribution of the resources should go into the neighborhoods, of course, that have been harmed the most. But we also believe that having a tax structure that challenges corporations and millionaires and billionaires to have more skin in the game, that's how you build a better, stronger, safer society.
By not just having an equitable distribution of the dollars, but to ensure that we are receiving those dollars in a way that are sustainable. And that, quite frankly, is just simply fair.
Now, because I am someone who works at least adjacent to the national media, I'm required by a professional dictate to ask you about crime in this race. And a lot of it, like I said, a lot of the coverage was about it.
Your victory is being seen by some folks as a model for how Democrats can deal with crime in the 2024 election. And it's important to note you were running against a Democrat, not a Republican.
But a lot of the attacks that your opponent, the sort of the anti-crime attacks your opponent did on you, looked a lot like some of the attacks Republicans do. Defund the police, those sorts of things.
I was very interested in – by your response to those attacks and the policies you put forth. Can you talk a little bit about how you dealt with these sort of very aggressive crime attacks on your record in a city where crime is an issue? It is up in a lot of areas.
So how did you do that? Well, first of all, let me just acknowledge that public safety was top of mind for every single voter in the city of Chicago, essentially. And I share my story a lot.
Look, I'm raising my family on the west side of Chicago. It's beautiful.
The particular neighborhood that we live in, it's the Austin neighborhood. I believe it's one of the highest concentration of black voters or black residents, not just in the city of Chicago, but around the country.
and as beautiful as it is, it has been disinvested in historically over time.

And as a result of that disinvestment, there's a real hyper concentration of poverty and isolation. And so as a result, of course, violence is quite pervasive in the neighborhood.
And I've experienced this on a very personal note where gunshots break out right outside our front door. And that level of hopelessness, of course, has spread throughout the entire city of Chicago.
What was important in this moment, and I think to your point about the Republican attacks, that we should not use the attacks from the Republican Party to attack ourselves internally. To me, that's irresponsible, right? Because there was a Republican Party that said that President Biden was going to defund the police.
The Republican Party said that Governor J.B. Pritzker was going to defund the police.
I believe the Republican Party said that, you know, leader Nancy Pelosi would defund the police, right? So we know from whence these attacks come from. So that type of internal wrestling should not be permitted within our group.
But to a larger extent, though, what it demonstrated, though, that we don't have to confine the conversation of public safety around these false choices, that the only way in which you can have a safe community is if you're tough. I put that

in quotations, un-cry, that this is really about a smart public safety plan. So we talked about what works.
So I made a commitment to doing what works. One, doubling the amount of young people that we hire.
There's a direct correlation between youth employment, and this needs to be year-round, youth employment and violence reduction. Thing two, investing in mental health services, right? There's a direct correlation between providing the mental health support that not just residents of the city of Chicago, I'm talking about all residents of the city of Chicago, that includes law enforcement that wrestle with trauma as well, making sure that we are providing housing, affordable housing.
Now, of course, promoting and training 200 more detectives to solve crime. That was a part of our plan.
Implementing with all expediency the consent decree. That's a part of the plan.
Making sure that we are spending resources to actually enforce laws that are on the books, like red flag laws for individuals who are accessing guns that have guns that should not have guns. Like all of that was part of the plan, but it's comprehensive.
It's not one particular component. It's a strategic presentation that gets at the root causes of violence in the city of Chicago or anywhere else in the world, but also deals with the immediacy of being able to solve the crime that does take place.
The last thing that I'll say is I appreciate the Los Angeles Times. They wrote a story a few weeks ago where the LAPD was essentially calling for what I'm calling for here in the city of Chicago.
It's an ordinance that's called Treatment Not Trauma. And what it would do is it would provide mental health first responders to respond to essentially what 40% of the 911 calls consist of, which is mental health crises.
And so by doing that, that frees up law enforcement to focus in on the more severe crime. Because here's the last thing.
We know that 60 percent of the violence that happens in the city of Chicago, it takes place in 6 percent of the city. We already know where it's going to take place.
Right. And so having first responders, mental health crisis workers, more EMTs to show up, it provides the smart investment that I believe the city of Chicago has been longing for.
And so it's an incredible testament that when you tell the truth, when you speak to the values of the people of Chicago or anywhere else in the country, give voters a little bit more credit. They know how to make a vote and cast a vote for the dynamics that exist, but more importantly, cast a vote for their values because they know

those values will prevail. I think that is perfect advice for everyone running for office on every issue, not just crime.
So Mayor Elect, I just want to congratulate you on your victory. Thank you for joining us here on Positive America.
Good luck to you, and we hope to have you back soon. Thank you.
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Okay, we're back.

And before we go, Crooked Zone Hallie Kiefer has joined us. The host of the newest Crooked podcast, Ruined.
Hooray. We just did a plug at the top.
You want to give a plug on your own here? Ruined, the podcast for people who love horror movies and for people who are too afraid to watch them. And I get it.
That's me. I'm one of those.
We live in a horrifying world. I could watch a disembowelment all day long.
You know what I mean? I have a smile on my face. Some people, they can't.
And I respect both kinds of people. So I co-hosted with my co-host, Elson Leiby, who is a scaredy cat, as you are.
And yeah, give it a listen. If you have any interest in horror but cannot watch it or if you love it and you want to hear us, talk about your favorite horror movies.
Amazing. Everyone, please go check it out.
Well, so I just want to say congratulations, gentlemen. You guys did it.
Okay. Time to wrap this up.
Positive America got Trump arrested. You guys did it.
It was you. And I hope you all treated yourself to an extra glass of athletic drinks this morning.
Maybe an extra hard-boiled egg is a treat. I know how you guys like to party.
Donald Trump is hypothetically going to see some repercussions for some of his horrible actions.

Months from now, praying to God that actually happens.

And what better to celebrate his demise?

I'm sorry, he made his downfall.

Because even a silver bullet couldn't stop that guy, unfortunately.

What better way for us to celebrate it than with a game?

A game we're calling, well, well, well, looks like everyone's a lawyer now.

Now, I guess that was my take from being on Twitter.

It's like, oh, everyone's a legal expert.

All of a sudden, hog news to me.

The way this game works is you tell me who wrote the tweets that I'm going to. I'm going to give you a tweet.

You tell me who wrote it about Trump's arraignment.

And tell me specifically, was it a legal expert or was it just some fucking guy?

And you will receive a bonus point if you can correctly guess the profession

of who tweeted it.

Wow.

Okay, so are you ready?

I'm so ready.

I'm very excited.

Here's the first tweet.

Now that the charges are public,

everyone can see how weak the case

against President Trump really is.

Who tweeted this?

A legal expert of some sort

or just some fucking guy?

That feels like just some fucking guy.

And what do you think this fucking guy's profession may be?

I have a strategy for this game.

Oh,

laid on us.

Epidemiologist.

I'm going to answer that for every single one.

Okay,

great.

Dan,

I appreciate that.

So this is the answer is Donald Trump Jr.

And I guess my question to you is what's his job?

What does that guy do day to day?

Reply guy? He's a podcast host. Oh, uh-oh.
It hurts. I retract my statements.
The greatest job in the world. Something that makes you an expert in literally everything.
I know. Well, that's what they tell us next tweet.
Former President Trump's indictment is a disgrace, and I don't think the left understands what they're getting themselves into. This, of all things to do, on a charge that no other prosecutor would even consider bringing really lights a fire under this country.
Who said this? A legal expert or just some fucking guy? What do you think, Dan? Just some fucking guy. You are correct, That is Jesse Waters.
We know his job.

And yes, bringing down democracy as we know it, I guess.

The second most popular Fox host.

After Tucker and Greg Gutfeld.

A real number two, if you ask me.

Next one.

Donald Trump is Tupac.

Donald Trump's Biggie Smalls.

Was this person who said this a legal expert or were they Just a fucking guy I feel like you're throwing us A curveball here and it might be a legal expert Dan? Sure legal expert That is Trump's lawyer Olena Hava Who? Again Not Joe Tapioca um no unfortunately it's not joe i will say there was some clarity apparently one of his lawyers this is the former oan host i think anchor is that right um i would say based entirely on looking at her for one second that's exactly that is she does not have a human job anymore Trump is being prosecuted

charged because he paid Exactly what he does. That is, she does not have a human job anymore.

Trump is being prosecuted, charged,

because he paid hush money to a mistress.

Something, it's inconceivable he would have been charged over if he was never a candidate for office.

Who said this?

A legal expert.

Just some fucking guy.

I know who it is.

Just some fucking guy named Jonathan Chait.

Yep, you are correct.

Wow.

And again, his job, he writes.

Does write.

He does write, and he gets paid for it.

Not a legal expert.

And then finally, at least for this mini game,

he looks sad.

I don't like the prison system,

so I don't like this process.

Doesn't mean that accountability is not owed,

but this is a granddad having a very bad day.

Now, is this person a legal expert,

or is it just some fucking guy? This is definitely just some fucking guy. And it is Van Jones.
It is Van Jones. I will say, who do you think is the granddad who's had the very bad day in history? If you were to think of the history of the world, I'd say there's a lot of granddads who had a lot of bad days.
Yeah. Yeah.
See, most of history are made by granddads who have a very bad day, usually at the end of it. You know what I mean? That's just how it works, you know? And then finally, so that was our first minigame, and now we're doing a second one.
Ooh, it's a bonus round. Bonus round.
And only because we couldn't figure out how to incorporate them into one game. We didn't want to leave the week without giving a shout-out to the OGs.
The resistance lives. You guys have been holding God hope since, oh, November 8th, 2016.
And your drumpf dreams have finally come true. So feel free to take a victory lap.
Put on your pussy hat and celebrate with your fellow wine moms or dads. And then it's back to fighting the influx of anti-trans, anti-queer, anti-abortion rights, anti-black, pro-grud profanity.

The right is committed to jamming down our collective throats.

But that's for tomorrow.

Today is for celebrating.

Go have some brunch first.

Get out of here.

Gentlemen, I'm going to read you some mouth-watering resistance lib tweets from this week.

Just taking, again, celebrating.

And you're going to rank them on a four-tier scale.

Okay, level one, Notorious RBG. Level two, Cheeto and Chief.
Number three, Dumbledore's Arby. That was a deep cut from Olivia.
Thank you, Olivia. And then, of course, level four, Occupy Democrats.
Okay, sitting right on top. Yes.
Okay. And then, let's kick us off.
We have, here's the first one. Spare some thoughts and prayers for the sad trumpers out there for my field of fucks has gone bare and arraignment has me bursting with joy so there and then sort of like that little coy face where it's like looking at the side wonderful how is that hitting you? what's the second one again? Cheeto in Chief I would go Cheeto in Chief yeah I agree okay great that feels right now this one is from Stormy Daniels so I think that does affect the score okay because she boots on the ground as it were or not on the ground I don't know I can't remember the details just let it go just let it go I'm sorry I believe her boots were on the ground his boots were and then she had a Forbes magazine in her hand here her tweet was I am fully aware of the insanity of being a porn star, but it's also poetic.
This pussy grabbed back. Wow.
That's pretty, that's hard to judge because it's her. But I feel like the third one is.
That it was Dumbledore's Army. Dumbledore's.
I feel like it's a Dumbledore's Army. Okay, great.
Because she got the pussy grabbed back. I give her a one.
I give her a one. She has full, this is her moment.
He's been a gigantic asshole to her. She's been the subject of a lot of things.
Oh, you're saying, oh, I'm just like proud. I was more proud of her.
That's why I'm giving her a three. That's true.
I guess I didn't get the rating in my mind. This is a totally subjective scale that we're making get off as we go along.
But so you're both right, actually. It's like watching a mob boss finally go down this of course is from occupied democrats themselves so that's an obvious four that's not the whole that's not the whole tweet yeah you forgot to is there was there some part of that tweet where they said rt if you like to watch the mob boss go down here's the thing not that one that was actually that was just.
Believe me, I was as shocked as you are. Honestly, I'm giving them a one then on that.
They don't even get their own rating on that. They gotta come a little bit harder with that.
This one is the tweet, spanky dumbass coming to a prison near soon. And that, of course, was Brooklyn dead defiant.
Shout out to BDD. That's a four.
That gets an Occupy Democrats. For sure.
And then finally, last one, breaking. Donald Trump did not get his mugshot taken during his arraignment today.
So his scam artists, fundraising medias have created a fake one stamped not guilty on it and are now selling it on T-shirts for $47. Retreat if you wouldn't even wear that shirt.
Yes, that's a four. That's a four.
That's Occupy Democrats. Full Occupy Democrats.
Good job, Occupy Democrats. Their day.
That is so good. Enjoy your week, Occupy Democrats.
That's it, you guys. Thank you for having me on.
Thank you for coming on, Hallie. That was a fantastic game.
Thank you. I want to play the resistant tweet one every week.
I mean, I think people, I think that, honestly, we need another surge. It's going to keep us going until, like, in December.
It was more fun than our last take appreciators, which, thanks to my two other co-hosts, got a little contentious. I don't know if you guys heard.
Okay. Listen.
It was a little contentious on the rating system. This was just fun-loving.
Great. Yeah, I was like, well, the rating system doesn't mean anything.
There's more room. Yes, exactly.
This was a perfect aperitif to end this week, I think. Okay, guys.
Thank you to Hallie Kiefer. Everyone, go listen to Ruined.
Check it out. It's going to be a fantastic podcast.
And thank you to the next mayor of Chicago, Brandon Johnson, for joining. Everyone have a fantastic weekend, and we will talk to you next week.
Bye, everyone. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.
The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner-Bernstein.

Our producers are Haley Mews and Olivia Martinez.

It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.

Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineered the show. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Sandy Gerard, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.

And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montu.

Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash podsaveamerica. Q6 e-tron featuring effortless power and advanced Audi tech.
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