Coalition's shadow cabinet shakeup

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The Liberals and the Nationals have officially kissed and made up, reaching agreement on a new coalition deal and announcing a new front bench.

And while Susan Lee says the coalition ministry is one of strivers and optimists, leaders and listeners, not everyone is happy with some notable snubs in the lineup that are very, very interesting.

So as the recriminations continue, David Littleproud's leadership hangs in the balance, with one MP stating he's 100% disappointed in his actions.

Welcome to Politics Now.

Hi, I'm Patricia Carvelis.

And I'm David Spears.

And David, we are fresh from the press conference with the final announcement on the coalition.

The band is back together, the marriage, however you want to see it.

It's more of a business relationship these days, my friend.

Yes, I've just come from the press conference where it must be said the thing, one of the striking things was how David Littleproud and Susan Lee walked into the room.

I'm not sure whether you caught that on the TV, but they were chatting and smiling and almost holding hands, PK.

They were just very keen to show that this is all sweet and roses and

one big happy family once more.

But is it real, David?

Because,

you know, there were some great lines and look at us, we've made up, but it seems perhaps

superficial.

I mean, really, that must be a lot of bad blood.

Yeah, sure, there is.

I would say, though, that right now, the biggest danger for both Susan Lee and David Littleproud is not so much their relationship with each other, as strained as that may be.

It's going to be the disappointed folks in their own ranks.

I totally agree with you, by the way.

The internals for both of them are watching.

Wow.

There's a lot to unpack here, right?

I i don't know if we start with the liberals or the nationals let's start with the liberals i reckon let's start with the okay let's start with let's start with the big the bigger part all right so the big shock was jane hume being dropped i reckon uh look there are a bunch of other people promoted we can talk about but jane hume being dropped yes there was the work from home uh debacle during the campaign and then in the final week that chinese spies comment that upset a number of liberals as well who ended up losing seats and of course jane hume despite being a moderate backed in angus taylor for the leadership so put all that together she's now been dropped.

Susan Lee said lovely things about her.

She's got a lot to contribute and a big future and all of these sort of things.

But wow, that is

brutal.

Sarah Henderson dropped as well.

And Jacinda Dumperjiba Price, newly minted Liberal member of the party room, demoted to the outer ministry.

Yeah, look, women in the lower house for the Liberals have done better.

There ain't that many of them, and most of them have got something, including Giselle Capierian, who hasn't yet won a seat.

Bradfield is so tight it's been recounted, but she gets an outer spot.

Dan Tihan gets probably the trickiest job, I reckon,

in the show.

Energy and emissions reduction, how he's going to navigate net zero and nuclear and all these sort of things.

There you go, Dan.

Good luck with all of that.

And then some shuffling around.

Angus Taylor into defense, James Panerson into finance, Andrew Hastie into home affairs and so on and so on.

But yeah, what's your take, PK, on those who were dropped in particular?

Well, I think you did an excellent job explaining.

If you look at some of the people that were dropped, we heard from Susan Lee declare that, you know, she was going to be inclusive.

She said that at the start, I called basically everyone.

I personally made a little joke in my own head that I'm now making publicly, which is

not that many people to call because you've been decimated, literally, the story, the name of our show on Monday.

But okay, so she calls everyone, even if they lost out.

She wants to be inclusive.

But it does seem that the supporters of Angus Taylor have maybe been hurt hurt more than her own supporters.

I think that's fair.

I think that's fair.

And, you know, people like Alex Hawke making a return to the front bench.

You know,

you can see the people who did support Susan Lee in this list.

Oh, you certainly can.

I mean, let's look at people that even though they supported Angus Taylor, though, still did okay.

Angus Taylor himself, well, I mean, sure, he's not the shadow treasurer, so, you know, it is a demotion, but everyone understands that Ted O'Brien, as the deputy leader, has a right to ask for that job.

He clearly did, which, you know, good on him.

Of course he would.

Like I'd be surprised if he didn't.

And so he has.

Angus Taylor though, he can't.

She can't drop him.

That wouldn't look very good.

Looked, it would be so blatant.

So he becomes Defence Minister, but it is kind of not front and centre like an economic portfolio.

Then another interesting one, I think, is Andrew Hastie.

I'm reading into some of this, but I think it's very fair for me too.

He had asked for an economic portfolio.

Why has he got another hardline portfolio that's in the sort of security space?

It's a great big portfolio, don't get me wrong.

He's still at the big table, but he wanted to cut his teeth in an economic portfolio.

I suspect, and this is absolute my analysis, but David, I suspect I'm right.

Do you keep your rivals ready, getting ready to take over?

I mean, I think robbing him of being able to show his credentials in the economic space is probably the right word.

Rob, don't you think?

Yeah, it's a difficult one, this one, though, because Ted O'Brien's the deputy.

He gets to choose.

And he's obviously chosen to be shadow treasurer.

That is the next most senior after the leader.

So that's, you know, you've got to do that.

I think putting James Patterson into finance also is giving him that opportunity.

And I would argue that James Patterson probably deserves ahead of Andrew Hastie after, you know, doing so much heavy lifting.

I think for the coalition through the campaign, James Patterson moving into finance gives him the opportunity to stretch out beyond those sort of national security roles.

Sure, Andrew Hostie would have perhaps liked that, but I don't think he can complain.

No, and I'm not claiming he is, by the way.

It's more housing or social services.

I'm talking about the city.

It wouldn't have been as senior, though, as Home Affairs, maybe.

Look,

it's at best...

sideways, but it's in the security space.

What happened to Peter Dutton when he only had security to talk about?

Doesn't help you round yourself out.

Just Just saying.

Yeah, if you've got your eyes on the leadership down the track, years down the track, you do need the opportunity, you're right, to spend some time in different roles and show you what you can do in an economic role, social policy role, and national security role.

That's what I reckon.

Now, Jacinta Napajipa Price, yes, she's been demoted, but...

I mean, she's done better than Jane Hugh.

She's still got a position, even though she just jumped into the party room.

I think that is very deliberate for this reason.

She's very popular with the Liberal base to dump her her all together.

Yeah.

Don't you reckon?

It would have been

almost political suicide, I think, for Susan Lee.

Yeah, it would have absolutely

lit the tinderbox amongst the conservative conservative commentaries who love Jacinda Dumping Juba Price, not to mention the base as well.

I mean, she's used in fundraisers.

She visits branches.

And yeah, I think there are many reasons why.

And look, she can be a very effective communicator.

We'll see outside of the roles that she's previously held how the senator now goes in defence industry because there's a fair bit going on in that space, if you might have noticed, with AUKUS and so on.

It is not in the shadow cabinet.

It is a demotion, but it's still a significant role, I think, for Jessica Price.

Look, absolutely.

And again, you're still in.

You've still actually got a role, unlike, again, Jane Hume.

Sarah Henderson has been demoted, another Angus Taylor.

Yep, altogether.

Julian Leesid's back in as shadow attorney general.

I think that's a really interesting and sensible move to restore him to the role that he held before.

Remember, he quit over supporting the voice when the rest of the party room did not.

so he's back in as shadow attorney general one i'm a little surprised at dave sharma's uh shadow assistant minister for competition

uh charities and treasury that's something but it's not in the shadow cabinet or the shadow ministry it's in the outer outer shadow assistant ministry ranks he's just he's you know a former ambassador well credentialed in foreign affairs but not only that represents the sort of urban australia modern australia the seats that they need to win back i just would have a little surprised that he hasn't got something a bit more yes same.

Look, Melissa McIntosh

stays in the shadow cabinet as the shadow communications person, but also is elevated to a new one, the shadow minister for women.

I think that's really smart.

She certainly did on Four Corners, made the case for the way women are treated.

I think she's a very good communicator, and that's a very smart appointment.

Yeah, so you can see all of that.

One more that I think is significant is Karen Little.

She is a South Australian senator.

I think actually for Indigenous Australia, this is really an important change.

Now, Jacinta Napajimpa Price has a very hostile relationship with Indigenous Australia.

She's in the Northern Territory, but that, you know, you can have an antagonistic relationship with a group, even though you are from that group.

I can tell you.

Karen Little doesn't.

She has a better working relationship with a lot of people in that community, and I think that will be important, I think, for the coalition.

Yes, they won the no vote, but there are relationships that they have to rebuild there as well.

And I think Karen is an important point.

Yeah, and just look at, you know, some of the booth results in remote communities, not just from the voice referendum, but from the election a few weeks back as well.

And that will explain what you're talking about there.

We should talk about the Nats, though, as well, because, you know, as mentioned, there's a similar sort of story here that David Littleproud's biggest problem is going to be those who've been left out from the Nats side of things.

They've got fewer numbers to play with.

And it's the two former leaders, Michael McCormack and Barnaby Joyce, who've been left out altogether.

And both, in fact, made clear even before this was announced how unhappy they were.

They'd both been told, they said, by David Littleproud, that he needed generational change.

That's why they were left out.

And they've both pointed out, well, hang on, there are people older than us who've made the cut and we've been dropped.

They're not happy.

Matt Canavan's not there at all either.

And Colin Boyce, who, of course, this morning in the nine newspapers, was was very critical of David Littleproud's handling of events over the last week or so.

So you've got these big critics now sitting on the back bench, and that can often spell trouble.

Well, I put that to Bridget Mackenzie, who I've interviewed for afternoon briefing.

She made some very pointed remarks about them both, saying their job should be mentoring people, given they've even been deputy prime ministers, and that they should take that job seriously, that leaders have the right to demote.

They did it.

Very pointed remark again.

They demoted people.

And that, so really, you know, in defense of Little Proud.

Personally, though, I've spoken to a lot of people, I know you do too.

I don't know if David Littleproud's going to be the leader of the Nationals for this whole term.

Yeah, we'll see.

I mean, you're right.

The immediate reaction from his critics is a bit like what we were talking about with Susan Lee.

The accusation is David Littleproud simply looked after those who voted for him.

Everyone who voted for Matt Canavan a couple of of weeks ago left out.

So that's the immediate hot take.

We should mention net zero as well because

this is Dan Tian's got to navigate this one now as the shadow minister, but so do the leaders.

Good luck.

So do the leaders, David Littleproud and Susan Lee.

And in that press conference, it was a bit hard to sort of pin down.

There were a few questions, including one from me about, well, hang on, what is the position right now?

Okay, is it under review or is it still...

David Littleproud seemed to say it remains national party policy now,

but it's up to the party room to, you know, if people in the party room want to contest that, change that, you know, we'll have that debate.

But right now it's our policy.

Susan Lee wouldn't even say that for the Liberals.

She basically indicated that they are going to go through a process of reviewing all of these energy and climate-related matters, including net zero.

So it's a little fuzzy, and that always suggests...

it's not going to be an easy one for them to resolve.

It's going to be the biggest Barney they have, I think, right?

Now, I've spoken to people who are very much believers in net zero and emissions reduction, so more moderate people, who say there are other ways around it.

So they're trying to find some kind of version of how they can look like they have climate credentials, but I don't understand how that's possible, though, do you?

Well, I mean, you could maybe push net zero out to 2060 or 2070 or 2080, but

they invent their own climate international targets.

I mean, if you're going to to stick with net zero...

We've got a better idea.

Yeah, if you're going to stick with net zero by 2050, this is the problem for them.

There aren't that many pathways there.

You're either using a lot of zero emissions renewables or zero emission nuclear.

And simply lifting the ban on nuclear doesn't get you enough nuclear to get to net zero by 2050.

That's why the coalition had the plan for seven government-owned, taxpayer-built nuclear power plants.

And if that's no longer the policy, yeah, how do they get to net zero?

I don't know if there's a third way and whether danteen will land on one but that just looks difficult i've been told about this these other options which break my brain because i'm like i i don't know like i know simple maths and i don't know how else you do i mean surely it's not turning off a lot of heavy emitting industry because i i yeah i'm just not sure how else uh you get there unless some magical technology comes along but that's something they'll have to grapple with but let's look at the alternatives where we could have ended up this week pk the coalition is back together.

I think that is far preferable for them than the situation we were in a week ago today, where they'd split and it looked like they were going to be announcing separate front benches.

I think, you know, the fact that they have come back together is something.

There are unhappy people on the back bench who've been left out of this list.

There are some curious changes here and there are some big, big policy challenges to come.

But at least they've now got this done and they can settle down and begin this difficult work.

Is that fair?

I think that's right.

I think that is a a fair assessment.

And look, you know, Susan Lee, can I say, her mother just died.

I just, you know, like, mums are important.

Like, it's a big deal.

She buries a mother on Friday.

Now she can kind of probably focus on that, which you would think.

She's a grandmother.

She's got kids.

Like, you know, people do have other things in their lives other than just these high-profile careers.

I think the other thing we should talk about in this podcast, which is very, very, very significant and very consequential to our country.

Not that I'm saying that the opposition isn't, but this really is.

The Environment Minister, Murray Watt, has confirmed he will approve the controversial extension of the Woodside Northwest Shelf gas project in WA.

Just to explain how significant that is, that extends operations until 2070.

Now, that's a year I figured out how old I would be.

Don't do that, David, because

you're even older than me, and you're not going to enjoy that.

So Murray Watt was put in the portfolio to be a bit of a fixer.

Is this a fix?

Well, I don't think this is a surprise.

And a decision had to be made by the end of this week.

It had been delayed and delayed and delayed.

In fact, it was six years ago that Woodside first made the application to extend.

Now, we're not talking about a expansion, we're talking about extending the lifetime at a maximum amount to 2070.

It was currently due to wrap up at 2030.

So it's extending it for 40 years.

It's at this stage a provisional decision.

He's made some conditions.

We haven't got those, but they go to apparently the impact of air emissions on the rock art sites near there.

We're not talking about carbon emissions, about greenhouse gas emissions.

And it's worth noting that that was not something he could consider.

The Act at the moment doesn't include the sort of impact on climate change.

That may change once the environment laws change at some point in this term of Parliament, but that was not part of his consideration here.

So it's extending the lifetime of this huge gas project.

And unsurprisingly, this has outraged green groups and the greens who you know now rightly say that gas will be around for a whole lot longer and that's going to make life harder to get to net zero.

The Prime Minister though had been hinting at this in recent days when asked he was talking about well net zero net is the key there.

It's not absolute zero.

Gas will still be part of the mix and has to be part of the mix for some time.

So look, it will be a contentious decision, but as I say, not a surprising decision decision from the government.

No, but contentious is obviously the right word, and

the government is in a wicked position on this, too.

Obviously, they've got through the election, as you say, like so.

This side is...

a happier place to be making a decision like this when it doesn't become sort of a lightning rod issue because they do have to balance these two

these constituencies.

But, you know, one thing that didn't actually make it into our four corners, which I think might be worth mentioning, and you won't mind, it's something he put on on the record george brandis was saying that you know basically what you've seen with the labor party is because of the emergence of the greens that's in some ways allowed them to become more centrist

so i wonder if also if you look at the way anthony albanese has been pitching policy i feel like he's very comfortable now in this space he doesn't seem to be as nervous when he has to make these decisions.

No, I think that's right.

And you think about it, if

this decision had been made six months ago, there would have been a lot more nervousness about it from the government, no doubt about it.

But he is in such a

politically commanding position now after this huge election win.

He'll be feeling pretty safe about this.

And I can tell you he'll be cheering very loudly as Roger Cook and West Australian Labor MPs.

The WA government had made it very clear the sort of outcome they wanted on this.

And remember, Peter Dutton during the campaign trying to win the West was saying that he would make a very quick decision to approve it,

which might have ended up in court challenges and so on, because you're not meant to pre-judge these things.

But anyway, the point is, this decision will keep the West happy.

And I think that is a political priority for the Prime Minister.

I'm not saying that's why this decision has been made, but had this come six months earlier, it would have been a far more politically difficult one.

Now, David, just circling back before we say goodbye, just to give you a sense of how do I put this politely?

The lack of unity inside the Liberal Party.

Yeah.

Because you are absolutely dead right to say the, let's, you know, we look at the Nationals and their relationship with the Liberals, but in their own parties they've got issues.

And I've got this helpful text message on background.

It's a liberal source who says, just letting you know there were 11 women in Peter Dutton's shadow cabinet.

There are just eight in this shadow cabinet that are women.

Now

That didn't come from the Labour Party, my friend.

I don't know.

It seems to me that Susan Lee is going to have a very difficult job in front of her, David.

Yeah, I did hear someone make that point, and I hadn't gone through the numbers to check it, but yeah,

I think that's right.

I've got the list in front of me.

I could probably quickly do the math.

This is a very, this is liberals.

Yeah, look, it goes to the unhappiness and the problems she will face with those who are unhappy continuing to point out things like this that will undermine Susan Lee.

I think...

On the substance of the, you know, not having enough women in the shadow cabinet, the counter to that is it's helped a lot, I think, by having their first female leader in Susan Lee of the Liberal Party.

Does that make up for fewer women in the cabinet?

Look, I don't want to do the equation on that.

But it helps.

It helps, right, to have a female leader.

Of course it does.

And that's what I think because she is a female leader.

Remember, Peter Dutton had to deal with his woman problem, like Scott Morrison, like they had to deal with this problem.

So she doesn't feel the pressure as much.

But I think it is significant that I don't think they're going to give her an easy ride.

I think it's going to be a difficult period ahead for her.

And that's the point, too.

So, you

I always think there should be lots of women everywhere.

It's going to be, as they say, an interesting time for journalism ahead.

Look, you know, for us, we will just keep bringing you the yarns.

That's what we do here.

So that's it for politics now for today.

Tomorrow I'll be with Frank Ellie for the party room, and we will tell you lots of other things that have emerged because there'll be new stuff.

The party room at abc.net.au is where you send your questions.

David, thank you.

See ya.

Thanks, Pico.