PM condemns Israel's Qatar strike

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The Prime Minister has condemned Israel's strike in Qatar as a violation of the country's sovereignty, while US President Donald Trump says he's not thrilled by the situation.

Israel claims the strike targeted senior leaders of Hamas, but the militant group says its leadership team survived the strike.

So where does this leave peace talks, and how is the Australian government positioning in response?

Welcome to Politics Now.

Hi, I'm Patricia Carvelis.

And I'm David Spears.

And David, we have to start with the extraordinary developments overnight where Israel launched a strike on a base in Qatar.

I mean, that is really significant because that is kind of a, in terms of the Middle East, a place that's been playing a negotiating role dealing with trying to get to a peace outcome.

So as territory itself, it's not, you know, historically, traditionally been the sort of place that you'd expect this to happen.

It appears to have killed six people.

Israel claims it targeted and killed senior Hamas leadership, which it says is within its wider remit of what it's trying to do, which is destroy Hamas.

Hamas says its leadership has survived.

Now, Qatar's response is important.

Cowardly attacks, labelled it state-sponsored terrorism.

That is significant.

Donald Trump says he's not happy, and that's really interesting, isn't it?

So a few things here, PK.

I mean, it's one thing for Israel to lob missiles at Iran's nuclear sites.

It's entirely another to launch a strike on Qatar.

Yes, it was going for Hamas' leadership, but look, it's a little unclear whether they've even taken out the senior leaders they were after.

Hamas says they didn't.

A bunch of, well, six others died, but not the senior leadership they were after.

But a few things here.

Qatar, not like Iran, is a friend of the U.S.

US troops are based in Qatar.

Trump had to react this way.

But it's typically a pretty tepid reaction,

a bit of a grumble, really.

It's very unclear whether the U.S.

has any influence to rein in Netanyahu.

And this incident once again shines a light on that.

It casts a big question as to what the red line is, if it exists at all, when it comes to what Netanyahu can get away with, what he can do, and when Trump, the U.S., would actually force it to change course.

And this, I think, also puts a question mark over US influence in the region.

I mean, countries like Qatar that host US forces, should they feel protected from this sort of Israeli strike, what cover do they have?

I just think this has raised a whole lot of fresh questions and a fresh round of international condemnation of what Israel is doing here.

The Australian response is not that surprising.

It's been consistent with the Australian response on lots of Israeli actions, which of course has been controversial in some parts, but

it builds on that.

But I do think the kind of question around what Trump, whether he does have muscle here or not, is an interesting one, because at least on paper, David, he certainly does, right?

Absolutely.

This is Israel's closest friend and supporter, the United States.

It's American weapons that Israel has been largely using.

So, yeah, it should have influence.

It's long had influence.

That's what I mean.

So it does if it then decides to use it.

And so is a public, you know, not so happy a real rebuke?

Because it clearly doesn't matter much to Netanyahu.

Like he's willing to wear that, right?

No, exactly.

That's what I said.

It's a tepid response.

I mean, what did Trump call it?

Unfortunate.

It's not going to help Israeli or American interests.

But what's he going to do?

It doesn't sound like anything.

uh really and and certainly there's no sign that netanyahu is uh having second thoughts about having done this.

As with everything, he does seem to have a free hand without any real pressure from the United States to change course.

Now, that's not to say there aren't some who think, you know, this was the right thing to do here in Australia.

Colin Rubinstein from Ajax, the Jewish Affairs Council,

backs what's happened here, points out that Qatar has basically been housing these Hamas leaders and

itself is no innocent bystander.

So

in terms of the pro-Israeli lobby in Australia, Australia, there's support for what Netanyahu's doing here and going after the Hamas leadership.

But doing so in another country,

in Qatar, as you say, this has brought the condemnation from the Australian government as well as so many others.

I mean, Penny Wong, Richard Miles used the same words.

Obviously, this is the Australian position.

It's a violation of Qatar's sovereignty.

It risks a ceasefire in Gaza.

It doesn't help the return of the hostages.

And it risks an escalation of what's going on.

That was from both Wong and Miles today.

Yeah, a significant intervention, but again, yeah, within the spirit of what they've been saying.

Look, David, I want to change the topic, if I can, to what Australia's been up to, which is very significant.

The Prime Minister has touched down the Solomon Islands for the Pacific Islands for him, you know, donning a sort of mandatory floral shirt, which he seemed to be comfortable in.

I think he's done a couple of these, so he's pretty comfortable these days.

Climate funding and regional security were the key agenda items.

Under the surface, though, there is a battle for regional influence between Australia and our allies and the growing

influence of China in the region.

So what did we learn about what the Prime Minister is trying to do to counter it?

What's on the table here that piqued your interest?

Well, there's always two things with these Pacific forums.

One is how they deal with...

China and its efforts to grow influence in the region.

And the second is climate change.

So just to break those two apart, while yesterday clearly was frustrating for the PM, goes to Vanuatu on his way to the Solomon Islands and the Pacific Islands Forum, hoping to sign off on that security deal with Vanuatu, wasn't done.

I think today has been a more encouraging day for the Prime Minister.

Look, he pointed out that Vanuatu's Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister and ministers are very positive about the deal.

So it sounds like he's confident it will still get there.

They've just got to go through the pretty complicated process of politics and decision-making in Vanuatu's parliament to get there.

Richard Miles, by the way, also said that he's confident it'll happen this week.

So there's confidence, but also Fiji,

it turns out, is pretty keen on upgrading the agreement we have between Australia and Fiji into a security pact as well.

Exactly what that looks like, whether it's a treaty, all of that to be worked out.

But both Fiji and Australia are now talking about a security agreement.

So when we talk about Australia trying to counter China's attempts to gain influence in the Pacific, frustration with Vanuatu, but a little more encouraging today and promising with Fiji.

Certainly the PM was in a better place today than yesterday on that front.

Well, he had a deal.

He actually had something to talk about today.

I mean, yesterday was really hard, David, as we discussed yesterday with Raf, because...

He didn't.

So he had, we're going to work towards it.

And, you know, you can sort of see that frustration, whereas today, yeah, there's something tangible there.

Yeah, and Vanuatu, too.

I think, you know, all Australia can do at this point is hands off.

We'll let you make your own decision on this.

Because when you look at what the sticking point is,

you you can kind of understand why some politicians in Vanuatu might be a little cautious here, because if this does stop them taking any development aid or money for infrastructure projects from China or anyone else,

and gives Australia that veto power over those sort of things, that's a pretty big deal.

So, yeah, look.

Obviously, the indications given to Australia were that it's all fine, we're on board.

And certainly it sounds like the leadership in Vanuatu is, but they've got to make sure the rest of the world.

It is.

And then, PK, on the climate front at this gathering, I do think it's interesting that we've heard from the Prime Minister there in the Solomons today.

Again, using this line that he's often used about climate change is

the entry fee, if you like, for credibility in the Pacific.

And look, he's right about that.

This is their number one concern.

And we saw that it created Scott Morrison as Prime Minister a lot of difficulties in the Pacific when he wasn't seen to be serious about climate change.

And look, Labor in opposition kept reminding us of that, that Australia's relations had been damaged because of the Morrison government's failure to act decisively on climate change.

It then went at one office, legislated a climate target.

Penny Wong went to great lengths to repair those relations in the Pacific.

But I do think it's interesting, PK, keen to hear what you think.

The PM's gone there.

You know, he's talking, he's saying the right things on climate change, but

he's not giving the Pacific leaders what they want, which is a commitment to end coal and gas, phase out fossil fuels in Australia or open no new coal and gas projects.

Nor is he announcing his 2035 climate target before he's gone there to the Pacific.

He's quite carefully waiting until after he's left the Pacific to unveil, presumably next week sometime, what that climate target will be.

Yeah.

Look, I'm not surprised that he wasn't planning to go to the Pacific and unveil the 2035 target.

I think we knew the timeline they've articulated, that they get the advice from Matt Keene and the Climate Change Authority, then the cabinet considers it and reply.

I mean, of course, they know what's coming to them.

You know, it's all happening in concert.

So you're right on that.

But you are also very right on what is not new entirely, but it's been, I think, a kind of move of the Prime Ministers to talk tough on climate, but still look at the kind of way he's talked about gas, for instance, and energy in the last

all of it.

So there is more nuance there.

And I will say that if

a liberal prime minister had done it,

don't you reckon that the...

Well, I just think it would be stronger.

He gets away with it more, doesn't he?

I know.

I was looking back because I'm going to write a piece on this for tomorrow.

It was six years ago Scott Morrison went to the Pacific Islands Forum.

It was in Tuvalu at the time.

And there were literally tears and anger at that meeting.

I think it was the Tongan Prime Minister who cried after a presentation on climate change at the leaders' retreat.

Frank Bani Murano, who was the Prime Minister of Fiji at the time.

He was so frustrated with Scott Morrison and Australia's position on climate change.

So

the temperature was a lot, lot higher.

Morrison had gone there with, I think, $500 million in funding to help the Pacific deal with climate change.

Here we are now, Anthony Albanese has gone with a $100 million offering that he just announced today to help with climate resilience.

He's not announcing that next target, but the temperature is nowhere near as high as it was back then.

And why is that?

Because I think the Albanese government in Australia now is seen as at least being a lot more serious when it

comes to climate change.

Yeah, and it just shows that by shifting just some of that, how much work you can do.

And still, my thesis that you can get away with quite a bit as well.

But that's why it suited him, David, to have every Monday when Parliament's sitting debate the repealing net zero bill because he gets to remind.

And you know, we're reported heavily in the Pacific we're a really important country in that region it's it is well known how the opposition is debating these issues and that absolutely helps him and puts less pressure on him

that's what they're really doing

they are taking the foot off the accelerator no pressure on him on this and that's really been a consistent story so far since he was elected on a number of fronts the pressure on him has been

Pretty meek, hasn't it?

You know with the exception of the aged care stuff, I think, where there was some traction, but beyond that, I can't see a lot of pressure on it.

No, no, and I don't think he's feeling a great deal of pressure on this particular issue.

Look, it still will be a test for him, getting this number right.

You know, forget the politics of it.

He's got to get it right for Australia and our future trajectory to get to net zero.

A big part of that is getting this 2035 target right.

There'll be criticism, whatever he lands on.

But you don't get the sense he's going to be overly ambitious here right now,

even though

that pressure from the coalition is nothing like it would have been in the last term.

Look, I think I just want to touch, David, if we can, on something that's looming, that's going to be, I think, a big issue again over the weekend and just the sort of policing we're seeing around it.

Like, so the Victorian Police, for instance, has now declared a designated area ahead of planned weekend protests.

This is...

another

sort of movement against immigration again.

The Victorian superintendent says the entire CBD has been declared a designated area.

So police basically will be able to search people for weapons and direct them to remove face coverings.

They want more police visible for the March for Australia rallies and the counter-rallies because anti-racists are going to get to the streets too.

And I think given we've spent now a good week, right?

It's literally been a week of the repercussions of just Internet Jimba Price's comments, which are separate to this, but, you know, same themes.

It's an anti-immigration period.

We've got police who are kind of trying to manage a lot of community tensions right now.

It just strikes me that this bigger immigration debate isn't going away.

The activism, even if it's in small pockets, because I do personally believe that these are small movements right now, but they are disruptive.

Like we're kind of reaching this level of

It's kind of getting a little hysterical, right?

The way people are responding to some of this.

Yeah, and look, without getting into the rules around how protests are organised and approved, and they are a little different there in Victoria, as I understand it,

which may add to some of the issues you're touching on there.

But I think, look, after what we saw last weekend,

was it two weeks ago,

the blanket coverage of the neo-Nazi involvement and the fallout that you mentioned there that's upset, understandably, the Indian diaspora in Australia.

I think those who turn up at any event this weekend are doing so with eyes wide open.

I mean, Pico, can you really say that those who are going to march again

would be under any misunderstanding as to what this is really about?

Or at least the people who are behind trying to motivate this sort of march?

Yeah, I think it's pretty clear, right?

So, you know, there are apparently different deviations of these movements.

We've been told, been doing some research on it, an afternoon briefing, and my producer, Josh, has been talking to experts and says to me, so I'm just reporting what we've been trying to find out.

That there is one element that says, no, no, no, they don't want to be about race.

They're just anti-immigration, and they're putting their foot down on that.

Clearly, there is another part which is very much focused, as we know, on the sort of really racial element here.

Either way, we are now in a period of time since the first demonstrations, then the big political reaction on

what is kind of a bigger, broader discussion around immigration.

I just think it's a really difficult one for political leaders to kind of,

I'm just going to say it's a bit of an ugly time.

I'm not loving it.

It's just an ugly time.

Yeah, people have a right to protest.

Sure.

And, you know, there are negative consequences if you try and stop that right.

No doubt about it.

Big part of our democracy.

But just coming back to the point, Eliot, I mean, if...

if you don't want to be lumped in with racists and neo-Nazis, is this really the weekend you want to turn up and march and protest protest at all?

I just think it's going to be pretty hard to say, I think for the Prime Minister to say there are good people marching

if they're doing so after all that's happened over the last couple of weeks.

I just think it becomes a much more difficult protest to be a part of if you do not want to be seen as associated with those pretty extreme views.

I think that's right, David.

And one more thought from me before we say goodbye.

This now will put a lot of pressure again on the coalition, on people like Jacinda Number Jiba Price and others in terms of how they respond to this next moment, because whether you sort of say these are good people or not has been part of that conversation.

And so again, it amplifies it.

That's all.

It just keeps amplifying it.

It does.

And yeah, look, absolutely.

Everyone will be going back to Jacinda Napajiba Price and others who were more sympathetic to those marching to see what they think after this next one, no doubt about it.

That's it for politics now.

And David, I won't get to talk to you for about a month because I'm going off.

Yes, but you'll be back on Wednesdays with me when I return.

Can't wait.

Have a great day.

We will be here anyway.

You will be missed, Jeff.

PK, have a good time.

But this podcast is here for you every day.

It's not about me, but I'm just letting you know because I am going to miss David.

Tomorrow, it's the party room.

And if you have a question for us, record it.

A voice note, the party room at abc.net.au.

Mel Clark and I will answer them.

David, you're back in the podcast feed on Saturday for Insiders on Background you're speaking to?

Still working on that, PJ.

Still working.

It'll be someone really interesting.

Just like old times.

I'm loving it.

I love that.

I'm feeling nostalgic already.

Yes, I'll see you all soon.

See ya.

See ya.