Did Trump just confirm a meeting with Albo?

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Donald Trump daubs an ABC journalist into the Prime Minister, suggesting his line of questioning was hurting Australia.

It was all going so well until it wasn't.

The fire exchange also saw the US President confirm Anthony Albanese's coming over to visit him.

And while the prospect of meeting with Trump might be good for the PM, he's managed to find himself stranded in the Pacific.

Again, welcome to Politics Now.

Hi, I'm Brett Worthington, filling in for PK.

And I'm Claudia Long.

Now, Claudia, you've left me here in Chilly Canberra.

I don't want to take it too personally.

You're in warmer climates.

I am.

Not quite as warm as where the PM is, but I'm in Sydney.

It's, Brett, it's like summer here.

This is amazing.

I've had to unpack my summer clothes.

I've got even more sunscreen on than normal.

Like, this is great.

I do not have the tan for Sydney.

So hopefully you're better suited for it than I am.

I want to know this, though.

Have you ever been called to the principal's office?

More times than I'm proud of.

Yeah.

But not for quite some time.

It's been a long time since.

Yeah, me and John Lyons.

I mean, I don't know if John Lyons ever wagged.

I think John Lyons is in trouble for a whole different range of reasons.

So he's obviously the ABC's America's editor.

He received quite the spray today from the U.S.

president.

Was it going so well?

John Lyons started the question by saying, You are likely the wealthiest person to have assumed this office.

And Donald Trump was like, Yes, absolutely, I am.

And then when he asked him about how his businesses were being affected by and the possible benefit that he was having from the presidency, it really took quite the turn.

Where are you from?

I'm from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, Paul Corners Program.

The Australians, you're hurting Australia, right?

In my opinion, you are hurting Australia very much right now.

And they want to get along with me, you know.

I thought it was a pretty explosive exchange.

Completely.

It had a bit of a touch of the cater about it for me.

And you know what I mean?

When it's like,

may a thousand blossoms bloom, but by the way, and it's that real like a moment, exactly, like on a, on a, what is it they have in America?

On a dime.

On a dime.

And it's, it went from, as you say, this moment of Trump kind of almost brag, like, I mean, not almost bragging, just completely bragging about this ballroom

to this, you know, telling John Lyons to be quiet when he tried to continue questioning.

Then we see after this that the White House kind of doubled down and one of their official accounts on X, you know, formerly known as Twitter, labelled John Lyons a foreign fake news loser, which again, you know, back to the school's office, I think for that, personally, it's very high school.

Our colleague Sally Sarah suggested he update his LinkedIn to reflect the new title.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, you know, America's editor, foreign fake news loser.

I don't know which one we're going to pick.

I don't know.

But I think the most interesting part of that exchange from an Australian perspective and a politics perspective is definitely what you mentioned before, which is, you know, basically saying that the Prime Minister's coming over and they want to be friendly with me and they want to, you know, basically be on my good side, which is delivered in a way that's sort of kind of, you know, so conversational.

But what he's actually saying is pretty intense.

Yeah, there's that moment of you've got, frankly, sycophants in parts of the press gallery that is following Donald Trump around.

So to get a question that is not sycophantic in the way in which you maybe are expecting

or wanting it to be, then it does prompt that immediate moment.

But you're right in saying that the real Easter egg bit of news out of this is that he is essentially confirming that Prime Minister Anthony Albanese will be meeting with Donald Trump.

And whether or not he remembers the John Lyons incident is beyond kind of anything we can know.

But it is really interesting the way in which Trump is trying to say, I am going to tell him about you.

You have set a bad tone.

I was chatting with PK on Monday about the importance of a meeting like this for Anthony Albanese, but you just get a feeling that after a couple of issues with world leaders in the last week, which we'll get to here, that the stakes of a meeting with Donald Trump are always going to be a high-stakes event for the Prime Minister.

Yeah, 100%.

And that would have even been the case, you know, before any of this, because Donald Trump is such an unpredictable man and leading a very unpredictable government.

And like you said, he's he's surrounded by sycophants, both in his cabinet, in his government.

Some of them are in the press corps now as well.

Obviously, there's some great journalists over there, but there's a lot of people who are very sycophantic, like you say.

And now,

you know, on top of all of this other stuff that's been happening that we're going to talk about really soon, the stakes are even higher, just in case all of that wasn't enough.

And so I think, you know, the Prime Minister, who has been really like angling for something like this for quite some time, this is something that they've wanted for a long while now.

It's something that the opposition kind of kept nagging them about as well.

And now it's finally happening, but it'll be fascinating to see how it all plays out and where it all happens.

And we certainly haven't seen the levels of confirmation from, say, the Australian side, which I guess is to be expected because the Prime Minister will remember all too well the experience in Canada where, yes, it was never confirmed, but it was expected that he would meet with Donald Trump.

There are a lot of elements here when you're dealing with the U.S.

President that are far beyond your capabilities or ability to control as a foreign leader.

But just what do you reckon he'll be thinking when he steps into that office with Donald Trump?

If it is that was to play out in the Oval Office, we've seen no shortage of world leaders have to contend with Donald Trump and press conferences that can go on for quite some time.

I think with Anthony Albanese, the real theme of his last term and this term is slow and steady, measured, you know, kind of approach.

And that's not rocking the boat too much.

It's not going out on a limb.

It's not making really many big calls at all.

And I suspect that that is the kind of ethos that he's going to take into this meeting.

I'm, it'll be,

I would be really surprised if we saw a kind of Zelensky style kind of tension between those two.

If that does happen, I wouldn't expect that it would happen because of something Anthony Albanese says.

It might be because, you know, there'll be Australian journalists there, there'll be American journalists there.

They might ask questions that certain leaders, not naming names, don't like.

And you would expect that the tension might come from that rather than Anthony Albanese's side.

What do you think though, Brett?

Do you think that that's the kind of energy, I guess, that he'll be bringing?

I'm just so curious to see.

the ways in which you try to appease Donald Trump in a way in which you have to do it because you need to find a way to work with this man, but also not doing it in a way where you open yourself up for ridicule or the suggestion that you are bowing before another world leader.

Now, Donald Trump is obviously the biggest power in that room of the two, but Anthony Albanese is a world leader and he wants to bode and represent Australia as best as he can.

The interesting thing has been watching the ways in which world leaders have done that.

So you've seen Keir Starmer when he went, pulled out a letter from the king inviting Donald Trump over to the UK, and we're seeing that playing out at the moment.

We saw Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, when he went, he said, hey, I've nominated you for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Other world leaders, you know, we've seen the head of NATO say, what, was it?

Daddy needs to step in sometimes.

I think we've seen references to it where no.

I just realised I was making a face at that.

And I was, oh, this is an audio medium.

But oh, it's really that thing where it's like you can't, you don't want to debase yourself, but you also want to, you know, maintain that relationship.

Right.

And it's going to be, look, it's a difficult

meeting for Anthony Almanese to navigate.

He has going to have to reconcile with the fact that Australia is not putting money into defence the ways in which the US government would like to see.

But we've seen throughout the course of this week the ways in which Anthony Albanese has been trying to present a suite of measures that he could take to Donald Trump and saying, well, look, we're putting these billions of dollars into the west of our country where we're going to improve shipyards as a way of servicing the nuclear submarines.

That means you, America, can benefit from having those passed through there.

You'll have more of your subs in the sea at any one moment than you might have had otherwise out of operations as a result of that.

But by putting money and focus into the Pacific as well, you're playing a role throughout that region in countering Chinese expansion into the region.

And, you know, at times it's been unclear what area or what focus Donald Trump would have on the Pacific, but Australia has been called out by the Trump administration at a whole range of levels.

I guess

the AUKUS element hangs over this the most.

To what extent do you think the Prime Minister would love everything but official confirmation that it's going ahead?

I think he will be hoping pretty much for that full confirmation, right?

I mean, particularly when, like we were talking about before, this is an extremely unpredictable man leading a really unpredictable government.

There have been whispers and, you know, concerns about what that volatility means.

for this partnership and how it will go ahead.

I think Anthony Albanese will certainly be hoping for

a spoken or

otherwise confirmation that we're all sticking with this, we're all in this together, given how much has sort of been sunk into this.

And sorry, that was a very unintentional maritime bun.

I think that's exactly what he'll be looking for, is some confirmation and maybe a bit of, you know, a

steady hand, so to speak, or a steady kind of indication of what the US is planning and what they see their future in this region as being.

Claudia, let's stay in the Pacific.

So we've learnt today on the Politics Now podcast that you were called to the principal's office from time to time, but wagging was the sin that you were committing.

You know, you don't have to share too much information, but have you ever been stood up?

Ever had someone not live up to what was expected of you?

Yes, I have, unfortunately,

on both fronts.

I've never stood someone up myself, but I have had it happen to me.

And look, it's not a great feeling.

But I think it probably doesn't feel as bad as what's happened to Anthony Albanese and the federal government this week in PNG.

Yeah, so it's incredible scenes that we've seen playing out.

So Anthony Albanese, after he made that announcement in the West about defence, he's flown to Papua New Guinea, where as he was getting there, it was expected that the cabinet was going to sign off on this treaty, which would have brought together Australia and the PNG Defence Forces, would have allowed for full integration.

So all the way up to things like we talk a lot about the NATO Article 4, where an attack on one is treated as an attack on all.

So this was meant to be a big moment in which Anthony Albanese was striking a deal with a close ally, a way of working more broadly throughout the Pacific, but also looking to counter broader Chinese expansion into the Pacific.

Yesterday, he was adamant that this was all going to be happening.

The issue was the cabinet had not been able to get together because people were off celebrating the 50th anniversary.

It's going to happen, the Prime Minister keeps telling us.

We will reach a treaty, but how much, how were you assessing the amount of spin that was having to get put on the top of the announcement today?

Well, not to do too much school stuff, but it does give, you know, oh, it's going to happen.

I, I've got a boyfriend, he goes to another school, you wouldn't know him.

Um, and it's sort of like, yeah, it's going to happen.

Don't worry about it.

Don't worry about it.

I mean, particularly after watching, so we watched a lot of the Prime Minister's interviews yesterday, and he was asked about this a lot by all the various news networks and TV programs.

And you could, you know, see how confident he was.

And it was a real,

you know, he was vibing, as they say, he was vibing.

He was like, you know, a bit of swagger, almost, swag, bit of swagger almost.

You could see that he was confident.

He kind of tried to laugh off suggestions that this wasn't going to happen, saying, you know, that people had been off celebrating and partying and that's why it hadn't been signed yet, but don't worry about it.

It's going to happen.

I think much like, you know, we've been saying about other world leaders in situations like this, I'll believe it when it's signed.

You know, I think that's the only time that you can really feel 100% confident is when someone is sitting down and signing it.

Because until then, you know, things can keep changing.

And I think if I were the the Prime Minister, if I were the Labour government, I'd be feeling a bit

embarrassed, but also kind of frustrated, to be honest.

Yeah, well, because you've had it now twice in essentially over the course of the week where a lot of anticipation about the signing of a security pact.

We saw it in Vanuatu, where the Prime Minister was there expecting that this would be signed, and then domestic politics got in the way, and it didn't happen.

And now to have it happen again

so soon, again, very likely outside of Anthony Albanese's control, but as the other recipient of the other side of this deal,

it is undoubtedly an embarrassing moment for the Prime Minister and maybe would have been and could be a much bigger story if not for coalition infighting on the other side, meaning that the ability to keep the focus on the government in these moments is limited.

Yeah, completely.

It completely distracts from what should be an easy win for the coalition because you should just be able to let the focus fully be on something that, like you say, is really embarrassing for the government.

And instead, the focus is on know, many years, or, you know, at least a few years before you're likely to ever be re-elected into government again.

The focus is on your internal party machinations, which, to be perfectly honest, will be fairly limited in their relevance for quite some time.

Yeah, you know, which sounds a bit harsh, but it's true.

And it's

at the same time, you know, we've got the PNG PM, James Marape, saying this relationship with Australia is rock solid.

But, you know, that's something that politically the the coalition could be, so to speak, making hay while the sun shines and putting a bit more pressure on them.

But they've kind of missed that opportunity, Brett.

Yeah, so the Prime Minister insists that it will happen in the coming weeks and then each side will go through their respective processes.

He's calling it will be a historic step forward.

And you're right though, Claudia.

You can't really take the step until you take the step.

And so that moment will come when the two signed.

And it'd be so simple to just view this in a very small moment of saying, well, the signing of a document on this day didn't work as the government had hoped.

But when you pull back and look at in the broader picture that the government is trying to sell here, it is walking two issues right at the same time.

We've seen throughout the week the ways in which the government has been laying the table ahead of what we expect will be the setting of climate targets later this week.

Climate targets and showing ambition on dealing with climate change is the ticket to entry if you want to do anything throughout the Pacific.

They view that as a step that any serious partner needs to be taking.

So you've got Anthony Albanese setting that up to try and send a message to the Pacific saying, yes, we take this seriously.

By doing that, it then opens the possibility of having these security packs.

And what do the security packs do?

Yes, it, of course, tells a story about countering Chinese expansion into the Pacific, but it helps with your message to Donald Trump in saying, well, yes, we're not spending as much as you think we should be spending in a GDP figure, but look at what else we are doing to support you, the United States, to support our region.

We are playing a bigger role than just ourselves.

We're not leaving everything just to you to have to deal with it.

And that would have been the exact sort of thing that, you know, they would have been wanting going into these kinds of meetings because it gives you that bit more confidence.

It gives you something to put forward to say, look, like you say, you're being critical of us, but here's everything else we're doing.

Look at, you know, this in-depth work we're doing.

And I think, you know, they might be a bit bruised from that, heading over to the States.

But of course, you know, I think we'll see the Prime Minister and his colleagues probably out talking about this pretty soon, i'm trying to you know throw a bit of cold water on that saying no no no everything's fine don't worry this is getting signed we're looking forward to what is it what is the phrase that they always use for um donald trump and anthony albanese phone calls it's warm and constructive it's a warm and constructive relationship don't worry about it um we should have a bingo card actually with that on it brett with that phrase because i think we'd almost always get it yes exactly and when you were saying before too about how you know this might be played down as oh well it's one document on one day that didn't happen to get signed this time i think with diplomacy, the thing that really helped me initially understand so much of this stuff is it's like, you know, when Jane Austen in like Pride and Prejudice and a lot of her books would make, you know, a huge moment would be a tiny touch on the hand, for instance, and there's tiny small moments where actually the impact of those is quite big and they're quite significant.

And I think often with international diplomacy, it's quite similar in the sense that there's these moments that seem really small, but actually speak volumes because there's often not a lot of direct conflict or discussion that's publicly, you know, available or is public that we see.

And so I think stuff like this actually is quite important.

And so that's always kind of what I think of as like a good, you know, comparison, I guess, for this kind of politics and negotiation.

Now, Claudia, I am no Jane Austen expert, but I want to know what you think.

How would she script this?

You've got the Prime Minister has had these two awkward encounters in the Pacific.

He's heading to the US where a meeting is expected.

If, heaven forbids, something gets in the way, the world, life, and that meeting doesn't happen.

How's Jane Austen going to script that?

It's a truth universally acknowledged that that wouldn't be an ideal week for a Prime Minister, to put it that way.

Not warm and constructive.

Not warm and constructive.

Yeah, yes, exactly.

Well, Claudia, I think our working relationship is more than warm and more than constructive.

So true.

It's been a real treat having you join us here on the podcast.

Thanks very much for having me.

And I'll be back tomorrow for the party room with Mel Clark, and we'll be joined by Guardian Australia's newly minted political editor Tom McElroy to zoom out on the week in politics.

And if you've got a question, you can send us a short voice note to thepartyroom at abc.net.au and mel and I will be able to answer it for you.

See you, Claudia.

See you, Brett.