Shein’s Hong Kong IPO, 50% Tariffs on Copper? & Why China is Winning the EV Race

Transcript

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Speaker 16 85 million. That's how many Lego pieces we use to build Legoland Shanghai, which just opened up this week.

Speaker 16 That makes it the largest Legoland in the world and also the second largest stockpile of synthetic assets in Asia. The number one is Steel Softback.

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Speaker 16 Welcome to Property Markets. I'm Ed Elson.
It is July 9th. Let's check in on yesterday's market vitals.

Speaker 16 The major indices ended the day mixed after Trump said there would be no exceptions to his August 1st tariff deadline. We'll talk more about that in a second.

Speaker 16 The SP and the NASDAQ closed nearly flat while the Dow fell slightly.

Speaker 16 The yield on tenure treasuries rose and renewable energy stocks fell after Trump announced stricter eligibility requirements for clean energy tax credits.

Speaker 16 Okay, what else is happening? Trump announced a 50% tariff on copper imports and signaled that more sector-specific duties are on the way.

Speaker 16 The market responded accordingly, with copper prices jumping 13% to a record high after the announcement.

Speaker 16 He also threatened to impose a 200% tariff on pharmaceuticals, stating that he'd be quote, announcing something very soon.

Speaker 16 Trump clarified that the tariffs would not take effect immediately, giving companies up to 18 months to reshore supply chains.

Speaker 16 This news comes after he decided to push his original July 9th deadline to August 1st. Remember the 90-day tariff pause, which was supposed to end today.
Well, that will now end in three weeks.

Speaker 16 Trump later added in a cabinet meeting yesterday that that change, quote, wasn't a change, but that it was, quote, a clarification.

Speaker 16 He also changed his tune on the strictness of that August 1st deadline. At first, he called it, quote, firm, but not 100%.

Speaker 16 But then yesterday, he said that actually, no, there will be no further extensions to that deadline. Okay, so we have a new tariff, copper, 50%,

Speaker 16 copper prices rose, 13%, record high.

Speaker 16 That's probably a big deal. When will the tariff go into effect? Well, we don't know.
Howard Lutnick said maybe the end of July, maybe August 1st. Trump said he was going to give 18 months.

Speaker 16 In other words, we actually have no idea when this copper tariff will even happen or if it will even happen.

Speaker 16 As we've seen countless times, I mean, you just can't really take Trump's word when he makes these threats about tariffs, which is honestly why I was a little surprised by how the price of copper reacted.

Speaker 16 We also have no idea if those pharmaceutical tariffs will happen. That one was really soft.
And as for all the other Liberation Day tariffs, well, we have no idea when those will happen either.

Speaker 16 He said August 1st, but before that, he was saying it was July 9th. That was the 90-day pause.
And then he said August 1st was a soft deadline, but now it's a hard deadline. In sum,

Speaker 16 no one actually knows.

Speaker 16 In the meantime, we should probably check in on our deal progress. Remember, Trump said over the weekend that he would be announcing trade deals this week.

Speaker 16 He said, yes, that we were going to see some tariff letters, but remember he said and or trade deals. So let's just check in on how many deals we've secured.
So far, we are at zero, zero deals.

Speaker 16 So

Speaker 16 no deals,

Speaker 16 maybe some tariffs. We'll see, but again, not really sure.
And then an extension on the tariff deadline, which by the way, he keeps on saying, oh, it wasn't a change. This was just a clarification.

Speaker 16 But the more I look at the situation, the more it is becoming clear to me that basically nothing has gotten done this week. And this is the same thing we keep on seeing time and time again.

Speaker 16 There's a lot of headlines. There's a lot of stuff that it feels like we have to cover.

Speaker 16 50% tariffs on copper, that is a big deal. But over and over again, none of these deals or these negotiations or these tariffs, none of them really have any consequence.

Speaker 16 They don't really mean anything.

Speaker 16 And yeah, we saw that that increase in the price of copper, but you look at the overall stock markets, you look at the SB, you look at the Nasdaq, you look at the Dow, the markets largely shrugged.

Speaker 16 So this feels again like this is the taco trade at work. We will see.
But what is clear to me right now is Trump has said a lot of stuff. He's sent out a lot of letters.

Speaker 16 He's said a lot of stuff about these tariffs. But ultimately, nothing has really changed.
It's July 9th today.

Speaker 16 This was supposed to be the end of the tariff pause, but no, that's not going to happen anymore. Apparently, it's going to happen August 1st, but who knows if that's going to happen either.

Speaker 16 So I don't have much to tell you here.

Speaker 16 We'll keep on checking in on this, but as of now, I don't think there's much to say. More talk and still no action.

Speaker 16 Sheehan has filed to go public in Hong Kong. The fast fashion retailer filed the prospectus privately with the Hong Kong Stock Exchange last week.

Speaker 16 This is a significant turnaround from their London IPO filing, which they filed about 18 months ago and which we have discussed on the podcast before.

Speaker 16 So, Xi'an possibly switching from London to Hong Kong. I think we should quickly just review the Xi'an IPO story, which we have been following for a long time.

Speaker 16 As a reminder, Xi'an is the fast fashion retailer that was started in China, but that is now headquartered in Singapore.

Speaker 16 Their supply chain is still mostly in China, but they say they are a Singaporean company. They sell extremely cheap clothes, mostly to people my age, mostly to Gen Z.

Speaker 16 And in the past few years, they have been kind of crushing it. Last year, they did $38 billion in revenue, up 20% from the year before.

Speaker 16 Now, for the past three-ish years, they have been trying to go public. That's been their big goal.

Speaker 16 But each time they try, they've gotten a lot of pushback, mostly because of their ties to China and also because of their supply chain practices.

Speaker 16 As I have flagged on the podcast before, there has been some evidence that Xi'an sources their products from Xinjiang, which is a very important location for forced labor camps in China.

Speaker 16 And while Xi'an has tried to address this, it's still just, you know, not a great look.

Speaker 16 So every time Xi'an has tried to go public, usually some government authority has stepped in and said, hold on, we need to review this. So, first, they tried to go public in the US.

Speaker 16 They submitted that filing in 2022. They were later told that they were going to receive scrutiny from the SEC, at which point they decided to pivot.

Speaker 16 And two years later, they filed for an IPO in London. The UK authorities actually approved that filing, but interestingly, the Chinese authorities did not accept it.

Speaker 16 Supposedly, China had issues with how the filing discussed those very supply chain issues with Xinjiang that I just discussed.

Speaker 16 But the UK said, no, those are important disclosures and those disclosures need to stay in. So now...

Speaker 16 amid this argument between China and the UK, now Xi'an is saying, okay, we're going to go public in Hong Kong. That might be because they actually do want to go public in Hong Kong.

Speaker 16 It also might be because they want to put some pressure on the London Stock Exchange and they want to force the UK into compromising with China and to ultimately let them go public in London.

Speaker 16 Remember, it's been actually quite a bad time for London in terms of the IPO markets. Fundraising this year has fallen to a 30-year low.
So the London IPO market is drying up.

Speaker 16 And there is an argument to be made that maybe the London IPO market needs Xi'an. Maybe they can't afford to let another big IPO go somewhere else.
So that's what's happening to Xi'an right now.

Speaker 16 Now, the other side of this is what is happening in Hong Kong. And that is that the Hong Kong IPO market is having this unbelievably explosive rise right now.

Speaker 16 So far this year, more than 200 companies have applied to go public on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. That is a record high for Hong Kong.

Speaker 16 The previous record was set in 2021 when 189 companies filed filed in the first half.

Speaker 16 But you also have to remember that was a record year for all IPO markets, especially the US, because we had this zero interest rate environment, we had the SPAT boom, and all around the world, there was just a lot of demand for new IPOs.

Speaker 16 But what we have right now in 2025 is a waning IPO market in America and in the UK and across Europe. And yet, while that is happening, the Hong Kong IPO market is exploding.
And that is strange.

Speaker 16 So for more on what's going on in Hong Kong, our producer Claire spoke with Alice Han, China economist and director at Greenmetal.

Speaker 20 There are a couple of factors at play.

Speaker 20 I think number one, there has been a positive policy tailwind from Beijing in the sense that Beijing is now actively encouraging Chinese state-owned companies and companies to dual list, meaning to do an H share listing in Hong Kong in addition to the mainland.

Speaker 20 That has created more impetus for listings in the Hong Kong

Speaker 20 ecosystem. Number two, mainland and foreign investors alike are trying to get a version of China exposure, especially on the China tech and AI side, and they are opting largely for Hong Kong.

Speaker 20 In order to do this, Hong Kong has a better regulatory framework, a more trusted financial ecosystem for foreigners and the Hong Kong dollar itself is pegged to the US dollar, which gives more diversity for even mainland investors who are looking to find diversification in a currency exposure outside of onshore markets.

Speaker 20 And number three, I would say, is really a story about China get people getting more bullish about China.

Speaker 20 There are obviously structural issues, but sense that the market is starting to see the beginnings of potentially a tech bull market on the mainland, largely driven by AI and positive policy support from Beijing.

Speaker 20 So I think for those three reasons, we're seeing a record activity and record listing in the Hong Kong market. All of this is good news for Hong Kong.

Speaker 21 Who is the loser in this situation?

Speaker 20 I wouldn't say that the mainland is directly the loser, but certainly on the margin, it means that there will be less interest in getting Chinese exposure through mainland stocks.

Speaker 20 I could see the HK Stock Exchange outperform the mainland CSI 300 index. So these are the mainland Shanghai Composite Index.

Speaker 20 Secondly, I think other,

Speaker 20 and certainly this is

Speaker 20 the case for the US too, other markets are going to see,

Speaker 20 I think, underperformance potentially relative to Hong Kong.

Speaker 20 Certainly we started to see this more recently, independently of the Hong Kong story in London, where you've seen record declines in listing, but also a lot of people delisting from the London Stock Exchange.

Speaker 20 So I could see a scenario in which the Hong Kong Stock Exchange outperforms some of these other stock exchanges. The big question mark is over the US Stock Exchange.

Speaker 20 We haven't seen a real decline in performance as of yet, but certainly Trump's erratic policies are taking a hit and reducing investor confidence, potentially also reducing the cadence and speed at which companies are listing in the US.

Speaker 20 In the short term, it probably incentivizes these Chinese companies like Xin, who would have otherwise listed in London or potentially even the US

Speaker 20 to actually opt to list first in Hong Kong.

Speaker 16 That was Alice Han, one of our favorites on the program. Just going back to Xi'an,

Speaker 16 one thing I would flag here, there's been a lot of debate over whether Xi'an is a Chinese company. This has been the big concern with the US IPO.

Speaker 16 That was the concern that was raised by Marco Rubio, who sought to block that IPO because he believed that we needed more disclosures about the business and specifically its ties to China.

Speaker 16 And I once brought that up to Scott, who by the way is an investor in Xi'an. And he made the point that no, it isn't a Chinese company.
They moved to Singapore. They cut ties.

Speaker 16 They don't have ties to the CCP. So all of this concern from Marco Rubio and from regulators like him, this is all kind of much ado about nothing.

Speaker 16 And by the way, that is the claim that Xi'an made too.

Speaker 16 Well, I would just note that for a company that isn't Chinese, that supposedly isn't Chinese, it is very unusual that in order to go public in the UK, they need to get approval from the Chinese government.

Speaker 16 That is just strange.

Speaker 16 I mean, if this company is truly separate from China, if it is truly Singaporean, as they so often claim, then they shouldn't need the Chinese Securities Commission to give them their blessing.

Speaker 16 They should just go public in London. They got the approval, but they're not doing that.
And they're not doing it because they need China to give them the green light.

Speaker 16 Put another way, this company that keeps on telling us that it isn't controlled by the CCP is, in fact, actively being controlled by the CCP.

Speaker 16 That is what is happening in front of our very eyes right now. That is what is influencing this IPO.

Speaker 16 So, you know, before Xi'an comes out with some press release, which I'm sure is going to happen about how difficult the regulatory environment is, how difficult the London Stock Exchange was, how they had maybe these unfair regulations.

Speaker 16 They didn't want these Chinese companies, et cetera, et cetera. I'm sure they're going to say that.
Before that happens, let's just remember why Xi'an didn't go public in the UK.

Speaker 16 It wasn't because the UK denied it. That's not what happened.
It was because China denied it.

Speaker 16 It was because China didn't like whatever that prospectus said about their Chinese supply chain and their ties to Xinjiang. In other words, this was China's call.

Speaker 16 And as much as Xi'an might want to distance itself from China, probably to make it more marketable to investors, I don't really know, that is the reality of the situation. It is a Chinese company.

Speaker 16 Yes, it is based in Singapore, but be clear, they are influenced by China and all those products are made in China.

Speaker 16 We'll be right back after the break.

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Speaker 16 We're back with Prof G Markets. Tesla stock is still under pressure after Elon Musk said he would form a new political party.

Speaker 16 Investors are worried that Elon is getting distracted with politics again instead of focusing his time and his energy on running Tesla. And that makes sense.

Speaker 16 As you will recall, Tesla had a big rebound when Elon said he would be returning to the company full-time. And now that that return has been called into question, the stock has fallen back down.

Speaker 16 Now, I don't think this needs that much analysis. It's been covered plenty by the media and the story has gotten a lot of attention.
But there is another side to this that is getting less attention.

Speaker 16 And that is the extent to which Tesla and by extension America is losing ground in the EV race to China, not just in terms of stock performance, but also in terms of fundamental business.

Speaker 16 Tesla deliveries are, of course, in decline. We've talked about that.
But at the same time, you've also got a GOP bill that is cutting off investment into electric vehicles.

Speaker 16 All the while, the Chinese government is doing the opposite. China actually extended its electric vehicle subsidy program this year.

Speaker 16 And over the past decade, the government has invested more than $230 billion.

Speaker 16 And now, just as Tesla is beginning to decline, China is reaping the benefits. According to the Chinese Car Association, in the first half of this year, Chinese EV exports jumped by 48%.

Speaker 16 And in last month alone, China shipped 200,000 electric vehicles, which is more than double what they shipped in the same month last year.

Speaker 16 Meanwhile, 17 of the top 20 best-selling electric vehicles in the world are Chinese. Put another way, China is officially crushing the US when it comes to electric cars.

Speaker 16 And with this new bill, well, we can only really expect that they will continue to crush us even more. Our producer Claire spoke with auto analyst Michael Dunn for more on this.

Speaker 16 He is the founder of Dunn Insights.

Speaker 19 Right. So starting 10 years ago, 2015, China's top leadership decided that they were no longer happy playing the role of follower, fast follower to Western technology.
They wanted to take the lead.

Speaker 19 So they put together a blueprint and said, in tomorrow's technologies, electric vehicles, batteries, AI, chips, China wanted to be the leader, not the follower.

Speaker 19 And they set aside hundreds of billions of dollars to pursue

Speaker 19 overwhelming leadership in batteries and electric vehicles. And they've gotten there.
10 years later, today,

Speaker 19 China accounts... build more electric vehicles and more batteries than all other countries combined.

Speaker 19 To put it in perspective, they'll build about 12 million cars, electric cars this year. America will be lucky to build 1 million.
So they're 10 years and 10x ahead of us on electrics.

Speaker 19 That's how they got there. That's what we're confronting as a nation.

Speaker 21 It sounds like essentially China has been playing offense for years. And meanwhile, the U.S.
is currently just playing defense.

Speaker 19 That's right. We find ourselves in that uncharacteristic, not American position of being on the defensive and being the underdog and

Speaker 19 needing tariffs to protect ourselves. So, what's going on?

Speaker 19 I think one way to think about it is that all things being equal, say we said, okay, China wants to go electric vehicles in the future and we're happy doing gasoline and diesel, fine.

Speaker 19 But the trouble with that is if we look at future technologies from drones to humanoid robots to

Speaker 19 AI,

Speaker 19 all of these components, all these future weapons and tools are powered by batteries. And without batteries, we're just sunk.
And without EVs, we have no reason to build batteries here.

Speaker 19 So it's almost as if, never mind if you like electric vehicles or not, as a nation, we need to have batteries and battery supply chains for national defense, national sovereignty, and to be competitive in electric vehicles too.

Speaker 21 What do you think we need to see from the U.S.

Speaker 21 if America is going to be able to keep up with China in EVs?

Speaker 19 As an American from Detroit, I would love to see the Detroit III hold their own, compete with the Chinese. But to get there, we are going to have to make some monumental changes in the way we compete.

Speaker 19 So, for example, the average cost of a new car in America this year is close to $50,000. In China, it's less than half that.
Chinese can make cars that start at $12,000.

Speaker 19 We don't, we're not even close to that. So we have to rethink what it means to be competitive into the future.

Speaker 19 And that means making some serious changes in the way we think about paying ourselves, including people on the line, including management. We're the high cost producer right now.

Speaker 19 And that doesn't hold for long in any industry.

Speaker 16 So this is obviously an ongoing story. And it's a big one.
And it's one that we're going to be keeping very close tabs on throughout the year. But the through line is becoming clearer.

Speaker 16 And that is that when it comes to EVs, when it comes to electric vehicles, China is winning. And this might have been a debate in the past.

Speaker 16 It might have been a debate when Tesla was rising and when our government was investing further into clean energy and into electric vehicles. But at this point, it's not a debate today.

Speaker 16 You know, BYD has overtaken Tesla. And you look at the numbers, Beijing has overtaken Detroit.

Speaker 16 And with this new government bill, which remember goes short on clean energy and doubles down on gasoline, just as Michael says, the picture is getting a lot clearer now.

Speaker 16 American dominance in the auto industry is fast becoming a thing of the past.

Speaker 16 Okay, that's it for today. Thanks for listening to Property Markets from the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Ed Elson, and I'll see you tomorrow.