927. Q&AF: Prioritizing Yourself, Outgrowing Old Circles & Good To Great Leadership

Yeah, we're sleeping on the floor.

Now my jury box froze.

Fuck a bowl, fuck a stove.

Counted millions in a cold.

Bad bitch booted swole.

Got her own bank rope.

Can't fold.

That's a no.

Headshot case clothes.

What is up, guys?

It's Andy for selling.

This is the show for the real.

What?

We're here.

It's me and DJ.

We're going to answer your questions.

Be sure to call in.

1-800.

We don't fucking know.

All right, let's just start the show off like that.

Uh, this is QAF.

This is where you submit the questions and we give you the answers.

Now, you could submit your questions a couple different ways.

DJ, why don't you tell us how they can do it?

Yeah, they can do a few different ways, guys.

You can email these questions in at askandy atandyforsella.com.

You could also go ahead.

Sorry to interrupt you.

That's fine.

I didn't realize you were going to be on your game.

No, that's fine.

That's fine.

You guys can also call Andy's number directly.

It's 314.

No, man, check the description down below.

There's a link there.

You guys can sign up.

You can also submit your questions in the comments of Q ⁇ A F episodes.

And what else do we have, DJ, this week?

We got CTI.

CTI.

What's CTI stand for?

Well, it used to stand for something, but I think we've taken it over and means cruise the internet now.

That's correct.

Yeah.

So go ahead.

I'll just let you finish since you're on your game.

I'm on my game.

All right.

Tell them what's up.

We got CTIs.

That's tomorrow.

It's current events, a little bit of everything.

We just pull up headlines, talk about it.

Other times you guys tune in.

See, these are shows within the show.

There you go.

You know what I'm saying?

That's right.

Yeah.

And you got real talk sometimes.

That's when Andy just gets on here and riffs, you know,

says what's on his mind, 15, 20 minutes.

You guys love those.

And then every now and then, we get some special sauce in there, a little teriyaki with 75 Hard Verses,

where people who have completed 75 hard or the live hard program come on and tell us how they went from shit to shinola that's correct yeah good job thanks man yeah so what else

i think there's also a oh there's a fee no oh you can get the live hard program oh yeah live hard program uh if you want to learn more about it um you guys can listen to it for free on episode 14 on the real af feed no that's episode 208 there bro but yeah i saw the first one yeah i know you could do it at 14 or 208 or 208 yeah It's free.

208.

Yes.

It's what?

It's free.

It's free.

It's absolutely free.

And what else is not free?

What's not free is, you know, for those of you who need a little bit more juice, you guys can buy the book on mental toughness written by your boy Andy Friselli.

You guys can find it online at andyforcello.com.

There you go.

That's pretty shitty.

Damn, what?

I mean, you've only heard that 4,000 times.

Yeah.

I thought it did pretty good.

Yeah.

You know what?

Hey,

now I know you're certainly not paying attention

talking over there.

Well, I forget the episode.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's a lot of free, good fucking shit in those episodes.

Yes, there is.

You're going to make up for it.

Yep.

All right.

All right.

Like we said, today is QAF, and we're going to answer some questions and make you guys better.

I guess we'll go ahead and get on it.

Don't forget to pay the fee.

The fee is very simple.

If it makes you laugh, it makes you think.

If it gives you a new perspective, if you learn something, which you will today, for sure, do us a favor and don't be a hoe.

Ensure the show, guys.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Girls, DJ will steal your bike.

I'm going to steal it.

All right.

What's happening, man?

What's going on, bro?

That's pretty good.

Yeah, thanks, man.

Yeah.

Thanks.

I mean, to be put on the spot, you know, it wasn't that bad.

Oh, yeah, that's good.

It wasn't that bad.

Yeah.

I got some good ones for you.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, you did?

Yeah.

See, I could do DJ better than he can do me.

Yeah, that was good.

That was good.

Yeah, that was good.

That was good.

All right.

Well, let's make some people better today, dude.

Let's get right into it.

We got some calls lined up, got some write-ins.

Let's start with a call.

Okay.

Yeah, let's get our let's get Jesse on the line.

Now, now, full transparency.

I don't know if this is like a guy, Jesse, or girl, Jesse.

It's all right.

We can handle it.

It's Jesse.

Let's give Jesse a call.

Hello?

Jesse.

It's a guy.

Hey, Jesse.

What's up?

What's up, man?

What's going on, bro?

How are you?

Doing well.

Doing well, yourself?

I'm not doing too bad.

Not doing too bad at all, man.

Where are you calling from?

Georgia, specifically Gainesville.

Gainesville?

Yeah, Gainesville, Georgia.

It's not too close to Atlanta, is it?

Maybe about 45 to an hour, somewhere around there.

Oh, okay.

That's not bad.

It's far enough to not get hit by a stray bullet.

Or

that's for sure, man.

It's changing up there.

So what's happening, Jesse?

How are you, bro?

What's up, man?

You're doing well.

Doing well, man.

Yourself?

I'm doing great.

It's a great day

to have a great day.

It is, dude.

It's beautiful outside.

Got the weather.

Yeah.

So what can we help you with, brother?

What's going on?

A lot, man.

But more specifically, or

just to speak in general terms,

How would you take care of yourself when everybody around you wants a piece of you?

They're always asking for help.

Hey, help me do this.

Help me that.

Can you help me with this?

You know, kids, wife, friends, family.

So how could you keep yourself in check and straight to give the best for everybody else?

Oh, man.

I think a lot of people struggle with this, dude.

But it's very simple.

And I learned this lesson.

I don't know.

It took me till I was probably in my late 30s to really learn this lesson.

You know, when you have responsibilities, and for me, yes, I don't have kids, but I've got family, I've got businesses, I've got people that depend on me.

And when you're someone that cares about those things,

it's very, very hard

to put yourself in front of those things.

And what I came to realize, brother, is that if I wasn't able to take care of myself and I wasn't in the best place I could be, my ability to take care of the people around me suffered.

So

I have this thing that I say pretty often, and you got to be selfish to be selfless.

And this is exactly what that means.

If you're not fit, if you're not healthy, if you're sick, if you're poor, if you're not in a place to be able to handle yourself, you certainly can't handle everybody else around you.

So when

we think about the natural

way that people see

other people when they start to take care of themselves, they start to eat right, they start to train, they start to be dedicated to their goals.

A lot of people around those people will say, oh, you're starting to be selfish.

Yeah,

but I'm being selfish so I can do all the shit you want me to do, motherfucker.

So That is a common misunderstanding of the people around you, and they really won't ever understand it.

But if you actually care, you've got to understand it.

And dude, if you value your sanity

and your own confidence and self-esteem and skill set,

you got to take care of yourself first, bro, because at the end of the day, man,

and this is really going to rub some people the wrong way, but it's the fucking truth, okay?

At the end of the day,

Most people don't appreciate what you do for them.

They appreciate what you do for them in the moment that you do it.

When some time has gone by, they don't appreciate it.

They don't think about it.

They don't give you the credit for it.

And

it's a what have you done for me lately world.

And the problem with that is that when we are

solution-minded and we are people that are empathetic and care and try to be active and help other people.

They end up draining all the life force out of us, dude, to where we don't have the energy to pursue our own interests and our our own development and our own skill set

and that ends up leaving us with nothing that ends up leaving us with no you know emotional energy we're drained we're frustrated we're angry and then also our own life our money our fitness our mental health our actual health

We don't have any of it because we gave it up trying to help other people.

And so, dude, if you are someone, and I'm not just talking to Jesse, but if you are someone who is always being pulled on, who is always being

asked to help, who has lots of responsibility, and lots of responsibility might be just your kids, man.

It's all different for everybody else.

But at the end of the day, you have to understand that if you are not your best product,

you cannot help people effectively to the point of what you would be able to do.

And that was a perspective for me that took me almost 40 years to figure out, dude.

But once I figured it out, man,

I got

everything that I ever wanted came into my life personally.

And then my ability to do good for other people increased exponentially.

So,

bro, I understand that's a really hard thing,

especially when you care, but you got to realize that if you don't put yourself first, you're going to end up with nothing in the long run.

Right.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

And I'm assuming that's including learning how to say no, right?

Absolutely.

That's going to be a big part of the deal.

Hey, listen, dude.

Setting boundaries and saying no is a huge, huge, huge skill set.

If you lack the ability to say no

and you're trying to become more successful financially, you'll never be able to do it because people can sense that and the asks never stop.

Okay.

That's one thing, you know, but yeah, you have to practice saying no.

And by the way, no is a complete sentence.

You could just say no.

You don't have to give this big, long justification.

And if someone says why, you could say because I don't want to, or because I said so, or because I have to do this for myself.

And these are acceptable answers.

And we live in this society that sort of like shames us for saying no.

Or, you know, sometimes we're around friends and family that make us feel guilty for saying no.

And

at the end of the day, dude, it's all bullshit.

And it's all stuff that'll keep you from becoming who you need, who you want and need to become in order to be, you know, the best that you can be for yourself and everybody around you, brother.

Right, right.

You struggle with that, with saying no?

Yeah, man, absolutely.

Because it's one of those things where it's like, I was taught to give first before I, before I ask or take.

Yeah.

So saying no is not part of something that I grew up with, you know?

Yeah, brother.

I do know.

I struggle with it myself.

You know, one of my really good friends

tells me this all the time.

He's like, bro, you got to set better boundaries.

You got to set better boundaries.

You got to say fucking no.

Fuck these people.

And,

you know, he's right.

And honestly, I started listening to him a couple of years ago when it came to that.

And it's made my life better.

It really has.

I still struggle with it.

And then the other thing is, is the more successful you become, dude, you realize that you can help people tremendously

in a way that is very impactful to them, but maybe not as

it doesn't hurt to like give.

Like, for example, right now, like if someone were to get in a hole for 500 bucks or a thousand bucks,

that's that's not a relevant amount of money for me and so i can very easily say here's a thousand bucks fix your problem but what happens when you do that is a couple things one

you keep them from learning the lesson that they need to learn so that this doesn't happen again all right that's the first thing that you you are taking away their lessons in life that are important for them to learn and that was one of the most important

I guess, realizations that I had when it came to helping people.

And, bro, I still, you know, I'm a very generous person, but I don't help everybody.

It depends on the situation, it depends on what happened.

And most of the time, I say no, because the truth of the matter is, most of the time, it's the consequence of their own poor decision-making, and they have to learn that lesson.

And then the other thing I learned is that when you save people

and from their own karmic reaction that they've created, you actually step in front of, you know, that fist of karma and take that punch for them, you know, then you get that shit unloaded on you.

And, you know, you're not the one that made the mistakes.

So we have to learn that, you know,

other people have to be responsible for their own shit, bro.

And when you're someone who is helpful and giving and someone who,

you know,

is just a kind-hearted person,

dude,

people take advantage of it and it's, it sucks.

So you got to be very intelligent and calculating about how you help because if you help the wrong person, then they think that it's expected and then you've created a real problem where now they're going out and repeating mistakes over and over and over again and never learning the lesson.

We see this a lot with like people who are hooked on drugs, like families families who get someone who's like, you know, hooked on meth or fucking crack or something, and they'll keep, they'll keep trying to help them and get them out of the hole and get them out of the hole and get them out of the hole.

And then what happens?

They become someone who's understands how to manipulate people and get what they want, and they never work on solving the problem.

So you're a crutch now.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

And I was just, I was just at dinner with some friends last night.

And

we got on the topic.

And, you know, they're very successful people.

And they were on the topic of a, of a person that they know who, you know,

has

needs,

but also has been fired from their job like seven times for showing up late.

And, you know, they, they don't, they don't do their part.

And,

you know, you just can't get yourself in that situation, bro.

You've got to be smart.

You got to understand that not everybody has the same level of integrity that you have.

and that's a good thing to have.

Don't lose it, just be selective about where you put it out.

Because when you do that, you're giving a piece of you away, you're giving energy from you away.

And the less energy that you have to work on you,

uh, the you know, the problem compounds about you not getting where you need to be and not being able to help anybody.

So, that's a hard lesson, dude, saying no, especially when you're someone that's a good-hearted person, bro.

Right, right, that's not exclusive to you, you know,

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, as you were talking,

I was imagining a couple scenarios where, you know, saying no could have been a benefit

and probably changed the course of my life as of right now.

Well, yeah.

So what do you think that means in the future?

I got to learn to say no.

That's right.

Because you're already how old are you?

31.

Yeah.

It's time to learn that, bro.

It's time to learn that.

You know?

That's real, man.

I think the biggest thing, dude, is just get comfortable saying no and not saying anything after it.

You know what I'm saying?

Like,

at first, people are going to take that as weird.

And it is weird at first, but you got to condition yourself to say no.

And then, you know, later when you're more comfortable, you could start providing a little bit more of a

window into why that reason is, you know, if needed.

But, bro, you don't need to explain yourself.

You don't need to, you're a grown man.

You got responsibilities.

You need to put yourself first so that you can handle those responsibilities in the best way possible with the best product possible, which is you.

And you have to be free to do that.

And that's going to require you setting some boundaries and saying no.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hell yeah.

All right.

I appreciate that.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome, bro.

It takes practice, dude.

It takes practice.

Sometimes when you have to practice saying no, you practice saying no to little things so that you get comfortable just saying it.

You know what I mean?

Just look for opportunities when you're in your day-to-day life and acknowledge those little victories when you say no to things you actually don't want to do.

You know, for me, one of the things that I've always got caught up in is someone will ask me to do something months in advance and I'll say yes in the moment, but but I really didn't want to do it.

And then I end up having to like cancel it or back out.

And I've just gotten more comfortable just kind of saying, no, I'm doing my thing.

And that's just taken a long time for me to get there.

And

I got to tell you, dude, I don't think it's really offended anybody.

I don't think it's,

I think people are comfortable.

I think this lack of communication is almost in our own heads, you know.

We fear what people are going to say.

We paint

the worst possible reaction in our mind.

And then, you know, we kind of bitch out.

And, you know, when in reality, had you just said no, they would have probably been like, they probably would have said, well, why not?

You'd be like, hey, because this, and it'd be over.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It's thick, man.

Well, I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Yeah, brother.

All right, Jesse.

I'll talk to you later, dude.

Salary, I appreciate it, guys.

Thank you for what you do.

Thank you.

You've been a help with not just this, but everything else in between.

Thank you, brother.

We really appreciate that, man.

All right, you guys have a good one.

All right, you too.

I was thinking, I think the most, the, the hardest part of that process is just saying no the first time.

Because then it's like, you know, you brought up like, you know, somebody that you're being a crutch to essentially, but it's like the moment you stop helping them, oh, then you're a piece of shit.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Then you got to deal with, like, that's the hard, like, but I feel like, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.

I feel like you only got to do that like one, maybe two times.

And then you're good.

Yeah.

Then you're good.

Yeah, dude.

It's, look, man, it's people got to know they can't step on your toes.

Yeah.

And that's it.

And saying no in a very direct confident way and then kind of leaving it at that sort of sets that boundary for good oh yeah you know because like it's so it's it's so unexpected for people

and they're they're not used to it to the point where like when you just say no and kind of leave it at that they almost think like well oh are you mad at me yeah right you know no i'm not mad at you just it's just no yeah and once you set that boundary

you know people people start respecting it yeah 100 it doesn't take a long time to set that up.

No, that's real, man.

It's almost like a perfect transition.

We got to write in.

Let's expand on this a little bit more.

Guys, Andy, question number two.

Dear Andy and DJ,

my name is Mark, and I am 32 years old, living in the northwest suburbs of Chicago, Illinois.

I have been making significant changes in my life,

which

it's impacted me for the better.

To save a long story, I will just say I used to be a soy boy beta white knight

self-describe, okay,

who blamed everyone for my shortcomings until 2020 happened and I essentially had my Coming to Jesus moment.

Through listening to you and a few other podcasts, I've managed to see that all the hills that I was willing to die on were basically BS.

So I changed up my weight training regimen as well,

what I was eating, who I was following on social media.

As I write this, I've cleared up years of brain fog.

I read a lot more than I watched TV and I maintain routine every day, even on the weekends.

The problem that I have, the problem that I've been facing since I started making these changes is that I've been getting a lot of backlash because I'm not that guy anymore.

I don't drink alcohol, nor do I smoke cigarettes anymore, cold turkey.

I've even gotten to the point where I'm not materialistic as hell,

nor do I go out to eat.

I make all of my food for the week at home.

And being Indian, I'm not big on eating Indian food anymore, as it does not agree with my stomach.

So with all that being said, my question is,

how do I cut these people off and tell them that I'm doing this for my own personal benefit?

I'm at the point where I really don't care what they have to say about me.

Most of it is done behind closed doors anyway, but I'm getting really tired of having to explain why I don't go to the club anymore or why I don't want to go to this restaurant because it doesn't align with my new values or why I don't stay up to the wee hours of the morning because I want to get my 4 a.m.

lift in.

Always appreciate your insight and thank you for what you do, P.S.

I love the grape energy, by the way.

The minute I cracked it open while driving, I was pulled over by the police.

And I'm not saying that to be funny.

I'm being serious.

A lot of stuff there.

Profiling.

That's right.

You got to watch out for that great energy.

I don't eat Indian food no more because my stomach does not agree.

Yeah.

Sounds like he's become full-blown

domestic tea.

Oh, yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

That's right.

That's right.

That's right.

Hey, all right.

First of all, dude, look, congratulations on all the progress.

Okay.

That's...

That's a big change.

You know, going from being someone who's kind of like floating in the wind and bought into society's idea of being weak and sick and you know broke and uh this way lesser version of yourself to pursue

your ultimate potential and purpose for being in life by creating you into being the best you that you could be is a massive change and a massive victory uh in regards to the people

that you feel you have to explain you said you don't really care what they think Well, you fucking obviously do, or you wouldn't be writing into the show.

All right.

A lot of people say, oh, I don't give a fuck.

But let me tell you something, dude.

The people who say, I give zero fucks are the ones that give the most fucks.

Okay.

So

you have to understand that you owe them nothing.

You don't owe them an excuse.

You don't owe them a reason.

You don't owe them an explanation for why it is you're trying to work out or trying to be healthier or trying trying to become what it is you're trying to become.

They are going to stay exactly where they are for the next 60 motherfucking years.

Okay.

Their best days have already happened.

Your best days haven't even started unless you decide to stay in that circle and do what they do.

And you are at a point where it is time to move into what we call no man's land.

And no man's land is not a fun place to be.

In fact, I think you're already there.

You're not going to eat.

You're making your food at home.

You're sort of isolating yourself.

And that

is not the best way to do this.

Okay.

You have to understand

your old friend group, your people who knew you from back in the day, Most of them are not going to come on the journey with you.

All right.

And then they're going to blame you you and they're going to say, you changed and you're not that guy.

Well, motherfucker, I went and you could have came and you decided not to.

That is not my fucking fault.

All right.

And it's not yours either.

So you have to understand, dude, through life, as we progress and continue down this path of personal development and personal improvement, making more money, getting more fit, becoming the version of ourselves that we want to become in our lives.

We are going to move through different groups of friends through our life.

This idea of having a friend group from high school or college and staying super tight your whole life really only happens for people who stay in the same spot when they graduate college or high school or whatever.

The minute you start progressing, they're not going to relate, dude.

And nothing you say and nothing you explain and nothing you do, the success you build will ever change that.

All right, so you're going to move on from this friend group.

You're going to politely just stop answering the texts, or be slow to answer the texts, or not answer their calls, stop giving them an explanation.

You don't need to give them one, they'll fucking get it.

And continue down your path.

Now, as you continue down your path, you're going to feel a little isolated, like what you're explaining now.

But surely and slowly, you're going to start developing a new friend group.

You're going to meet one person who is on the path that you're on.

And then you're going to meet a second.

And then you're going to meet a third.

And before you know it, that old friend group that says shit like, oh, you changed.

And, oh, man, you know, you're not that guy anymore.

And, you know, you used to be fun.

Don't forget who you are.

Don't forget where you came from.

Instead of people saying that, they're going to be saying, hey, man,

how can I help you on this?

What can we do?

Hey, this will work for you.

Hey, that will work for you.

And now the conversation becomes cool because it's like you're having these amazing offensive conversations about how you're going to move forward and how you're going to do these things and how you can build together and work together.

And then

you're not going to have to defend yourself.

You're not going to have to expend energy trying to explain because they're going to get it.

All right.

And then what's going to happen is if you continue to level up, some of these people out of that second group will go with you, but some won't.

Some will stay where they are.

They'll be happy at that level of development.

And that's fine.

This is not judgment.

This is about what you want for yourself.

And you're going to move on to the next group and you're going to go through the process again.

It's going to be you and you're not really going to relate to the second friend group anymore.

And then you're going to meet someone and then you're going to meet another person.

And before you know it, you're going to have an even higher network that is even more aligned with what it is.

And dude, the value of the relationships that you have with people who are on the same path as you is much more fulfilling and much more valuable than trying to defend yourself against people who don't understand it.

All right.

So you go from anchors trying to pull you back to people who are doing everything they can.

They're picking up the phone.

They're opening up their black book.

They're calling people.

They're introing you.

They're trying to help you win.

Which one of those situations would you rather be in?

All of us would rather be in the situation where we're surrounded by people who are helping us do what we want to do.

And that requires us leaving the things that we knew.

Okay.

And if you don't do that, the path will get so hard.

And those old friends, They will call you at the right time when things aren't good and you're naturally wanting to quit anyway.

and they will convince you to fucking quit and then you'll go back and you'll end up being just like them and i see this happen i have seen this happen

so many times

that i couldn't even count i i honestly couldn't this is why i believe most people lose they cannot break the bonds that they had with people that they either grew up with or quote unquote feel loyal to.

We have this thing in society now where,

you know, if you're not loyal to people from way, you're not real.

You're fake.

You're full of shit.

You're, bro, say whatever the fuck you want.

Okay.

You stay the same.

I fucking didn't.

If that makes me not real, then fucking whatever it is.

That's what it is.

I don't care.

Okay.

And you won't either because you'll be doing the things that you love.

You'll be contributing the things that you care about.

You'll be becoming who it is you want to be.

And you'll be creating what it is you want to create.

And none of those motherfuckers from back in in the old day are doing any of that and by the way if they're cool you could still be friends with them you still might see them out once in a while you still might see them at a restaurant a couple times a year you might grab a beer but like dude this is not an all-the-time thing

and people ruin their chances of success by being too loyal to the wrong people Okay, the person that you have to be loyal to the most is yourself.

It's yourself.

And you're not doing yourself any favors by being loyal to people who are going to hold you back because they've guilted you into, you know,

being real, quote unquote.

So

look, man, it's a process.

Everybody goes through it.

You have to go through it if you want to move on from where you are.

And you're already doing this.

You've got three, four, five years under your belt.

It's time to move the fuck on.

Okay.

So

whatever you got to do, you can tell them again.

But if I I were you, I just stop explaining it.

And people will eventually know.

They'll eventually say, oh, well, that's what he does.

And they won't fuck with it.

So, dude, you know,

the part that you said

they could have came to.

Yeah.

They could have like, you know, no one talks about that.

Bro, I think about my friends all the fucking time.

Bro, you could be here too, man.

And you know what I thought too, man?

It's like, The truth of the matter is, is that if you really care for your, for those people, if you really care for those friends or or whoever it is

sometimes the only fucking chance that they'll ever have to get out of that is to see you fucking get out of it yes you know what i'm saying like you gotta go yeah you gotta go and and and if you're really cared about them show them what the fuck it looks like show them what it takes yeah

they could have came man bro listen dude it hurts man it hurts because you care for those people bro nah it doesn't hurt It is what it is.

It's reality.

It's just real.

It's, dude, when you've been doing something long enough, you start to just accept things for what they are.

That's, that is what the point of this show is.

It's just, it's a realist mentality.

It just is what it is, man.

And if you don't operate in the what is and you always operate in the what should be, you can't win.

You'll always be fighting a struggle that you, you can't win.

So you have to acknowledge things and bottom line them for what they are.

They're going to stay there.

I'm not going to stay there.

It is what it is.

I have nothing against them.

If they have something against me, I don't give a fuck.

And that's that.

Yeah.

Yeah, man.

You, dude, you listen.

I don't know.

Like, I think you got to get to a point.

And this is part of the reason why, like,

you know, developing yourself with discipline and mental toughness and grit and fortitude and all these things, because, dude, most people can't say no.

and can't have a conversation about boundaries or can't move on because they lack the confidence to do so.

They don't believe in themselves.

And so you have to build that belief in yourself, you know, through a program like Live Hard.

That's why it's a program that

you do every single year because it keeps your confidence and your self-belief and your grit and your fortitude and your mental toughness sharpened so that these kind of things don't creep in and throw you off track.

The more confidence you have in yourself, the easier it is to say no to everybody else because you know that you'll be fine on your own.

And a lot of people that lack confidence feel like they can't move down the path on their own because they don't believe in themselves.

So, you know, the more confidence you can develop,

the easier this whole process is going to be.

Yeah.

Yeah, man.

That's that's real shit, man.

I love it.

Another call.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Shall we?

This is Trevor.

Let's give

Trevor a call.

This is Trevor.

Trevor, what's up, man?

This is DJ.

What's going on, DJ?

You tell me, man.

What's going on with you?

Oh, man.

Just joined this beautiful day, trying to get some yard work done.

Where are you at, Trevor?

I'm south of St.

Louis, just about 70 miles.

How you doing, man?

I'm doing good, bro.

Where at?

In Leesburg.

Oh, Leesburg?

Leesburg?

Yeah, just north of Steelville.

Okay.

Oh, yeah.

All right.

Cool, man.

Probably Missourian.

Yep.

Yep.

So what's happening, bro?

How can we help you?

Well, this is kind of surreal.

I didn't expect to get

called, but man, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to call me.

And,

you know, sort of what my question revolves around is you don't know what you don't know.

And

you being an entrepreneur, I'm more of an entrepreneur.

I work for a company that I'm working to make them a better.

company.

So I've been put in some leadership positions.

And I guess

I feel like I'm doing really good becoming a leader, but the question I kind of have is what is sort of that lie or misconception that we tell ourselves when we're in that leadership position that delay us from making the leap from being a really good leader to being a great leader?

We tell ourselves we're great leaders before we're actually great leaders.

That's what keeps people from becoming a great leader.

So it's ego.

People believe that if they have a leadership title, that they're automatically a leader, when in reality, that's not true at all.

In fact, a lot of people don't understand that they might have the role of leader on their team, but

there might be someone else leading your team that technically is below you.

And this is where we run into situations like undermining and difficulty to build a team and build a culture.

But the reason that those things ultimately pop up is because we think we're better than we are.

And so to be a great leader, you have to understand that you're not that great.

Okay.

And that means that that is the proper application of humility when it comes to becoming good at something.

I know.

what I'm good at, but I also know that I could be much better at the things that I'm good at.

And that that opens me up to learning.

That opens me up to hearing new perspectives or learning new lessons about whatever the skill set might be.

And in this case, it's leadership.

So

if you walk in and

you think, man, I'm a good leader.

The boss gave me the role of leader.

I'm the leader.

You motherfuckers better do what I say because I'm the leader.

You'll never be a great leader.

The way that you have awareness about wanting to be a great leader is how you become a great leader because you're already humble enough to even ask and say, How can I be better?

How can I avoid mistakes?

How can I XXX?

These are things that people who suck at leadership never ask themselves.

They're not even aware of it, bro.

So the fact that you're aware of it is a huge deal.

I think the second thing that is

very important and very true,

I think people underestimate the

leading by example piece.

I think they believe that they can lie or skate around it or pretend or somehow trick everybody around them into thinking that they're doing the things that they're supposed to be doing.

And that never works.

People are much smarter than people give them credit for.

They're automatically also looking at their leadership with a very fine microscope.

okay so like when you combine the attitude of oh they're not gonna see it with their ability to microanalyze every single move they're gonna see that you're not leading by example

so yeah that makes sense yeah bro so like dude most leaders don't do that and it's it's the simplest thing man it's monkey see monkey do they're gonna hold the standard that you hold they're gonna do the things that you do if you pick up the trash they're gonna pick up the trash if you hold a standard of a clean truck they're gonna have a clean truck the the the all these things come from what they observe and um

you know most people just don't do it dude they they hear you know the lombardi quote uh you know leading by example isn't the best way to lead it's the only way to lead and they think that's some like

abstract bullshit and it's not it's the truth uh and then thirdly dude i think that leaders also underestimate what their job really is.

Their job is not just to like stand at the front and say, this is what we're doing.

Dude, when you're a great leader, man, you got to work with people.

You got to get right in with them and

figure out what drives them.

What's their goals?

What is it they care about?

What are the things that move them?

What skills do they need to learn?

Like one of the ways that you can...

best build a great team is by teaching them skills that they didn't have.

And a lot of people aren't willing to do that.

But dude, when we transfer as humans our knowledge from our brain into their brain, there's literally nothing more valuable perception-wise than we can give another person is our knowledge.

So a lot of people in leadership, they will say things like, well, that's their job to learn those skills.

Yeah, but if they learn them from you, bro, how much more are they going to love working with you?

How much more effective are they going to be?

How much more are they going to want to go to battle with you when it's time to fucking, you know, batten the hatches down and fucking go to war?

Like

you have to do the work of not just leader, but coach and teacher and mentor and big brother sometimes, you know?

And

that's a thing that a lot of people just aren't willing to invest in their people.

They will say things like, oh, well, they get paid.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, you're going to lose, bro.

Like, it has to be more than that.

So,

but man, we could go on and on, but at the end of the day, brother, like, I would say that's the top three things really I see people mess up, you know?

And

maybe the fourth thing would go in with the first thing, which would be like,

you know, people's egos thinking that if you're a leader, people owe you shit.

That's not what it is, man.

You owe them.

You're working for them.

You're leading them.

You're helping them.

The best leaders understand that your job is to facilitate the success of your team.

It's not to sit in the office with your desk up and act like you've got a 20-foot dick, bro.

Like it's, it's, I fucking care about people.

I'm going to help you win.

We're going to win together.

We're going to do the work together.

Here's what we're trying to do.

This is how it benefits you.

This is how it benefits us as a team.

And let's go fucking do it.

And then, you know, you got to build these guys into doing that.

So,

but, bro, I'll give you a lot of credit, man, because like most guys won't even ask.

They won't even ask.

They're too proud.

yeah i want to set my team up for the best success in their life and i think you hit on two things when you your point two and point three are the things that i'm the most concerned about with myself um i'm a guy that that learns just by going out and doing yeah and what i really struggle with i think right now is that line of going out and doing it with my team and also stepping back enough to allow them to struggle to learn on their own.

And I guess maybe that's where I'm concerned is I learn really well by doing it.

If I fail, I learn from that and I learned that better than someone telling me.

But I guess where I'm concerned is, is if I'm trying to take that same approach to offer to somebody else,

am I missing out on an opportunity to teach them in a different way?

And I guess that's that's where I was really concerned about how my leadership skills are affected by what my previous experiences were.

Man, you know, that's a really good question.

And I think there is a lot of ways.

Everybody has their own like quote unquote leadership style.

But if we think about what our job is, and you said it right away, my, you know, I want to put my team in a position to win.

First of all, that's another thing I didn't mention was with the intent.

Like when you have a team and they can feel that you care about their success as a leader, they can feel that intent, it makes a much better team.

But as far as like

the way to teach them, I think a lot of people have different ways, but my way is the one that you described, which is sit down, explain it, give them a couple swings of the bat.

You know, they're going to miss the ball, and then fine-tune it, step back, let them make their mistakes, fine-tune it, and then they'll get it.

And by letting them

make a few mistakes and learn on their own, you're allowing them to build confidence in their own skill set, which will pay off dividends long term.

Does that make sense?

Yep.

So,

bro, it's fucking frustrating because you're sitting there and you're like, fuck, dude, like this is basic shit, but it's not basic to them.

Okay.

It's, yeah.

And, and, and, dude, the, the older we get and the more seasoned we get and the more experience we get, that part gets a lot harder because some of the things that make up the foundational principles of your skill set,

you've forgotten.

And it's, and it's like speaking Chinese to them.

So we have to remember, dude, also as leaders, like who we're leading and what they've known.

And they don't know what we know.

And I struggle with this for a long time as a leader.

I used to get really fucking pissed off when people couldn't do basic shit.

But then I started realizing if I just kept my cool and I sat down and said, hey, look, why are we doing this?

Why did you do it that way?

And they'll say, well, you know, I thought this was the way.

And I say, no, we need to do it like this because of this and this.

Usually, dude, like 99% of the time, they're like, oh, fuck, I got it.

And we default.

I think a lot of times, dude, also,

we default into thinking that people are being lazy and they're not being lazy.

They just don't fucking know.

Now, sometimes they are being lazy, but most of the time I found they don't know.

People want to win.

They want to contribute.

They want to be a part of a team.

They want to do well.

Winning is fun.

Winning is fun for everybody.

And it's especially fun for people who've never won.

And

if you can lead people into like learning a skill and winning as a team, bro, like

that's a big, that's a big skill set to teach people because most people never win.

So,

dude, I'll be real with you.

I think you're setting a foundation to be a tremendous leader.

I think you're asking the right questions.

I think you're concerned about the right things.

And the fact that you have the awareness is going to mean that you're not going to struggle with that, man.

That where people run into this

learning new skills and becoming better is when they're not even aware they suck.

They're not even aware that they need to get better.

They're not even aware.

They just look at it like, this is my job.

And those people never do well.

They always struggle.

They always go from job to job to job to job to job.

And I never understood it, man, because like we spend so much of our time in our work and with the people that we work with.

Why the fuck would we not want to be the best at what we do?

You know, and absolutely.

Yeah.

Like, we're going to be here anyway, bro.

Let's fucking win.

Might as well win.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

And

dude, exactly.

I love what I do, bro.

There's nothing.

I would not trade my fucking life for anybody's life on the planet.

Zero chance.

I love the people I get to do this with.

I love what we do.

I'm so grateful that I get to do it.

I mean, dude, I get to come in here.

I get to work with all these amazing people who work fucking super hard, who care about people, who change people, who then, then, you know, we, we change people's lives.

Like,

dude, when I, when I think about what I get to do, bro, it's fucking amazing.

And if I were to look at it like, oh, this is just my job and I got a show, bro, it would fucking suck.

Like

the difference in perspective is so massive.

And if you just acknowledge, like, hey, man, I, I, this is something we're going to do.

If it's not here, it's going to be there.

If it's not there, it's going to be there because I got to fucking eat.

And if you just had the perspective of, man, you know what?

This is hard, but it could be a lot harder.

And I really appreciate doing this.

Like, dude, it makes it so much more fun.

It's so much easier to build a team.

And so, like,

you know, I got criticized on the internet.

Some dude said something like, well, it doesn't look like you're winning to me you know you're at work seven days a week yeah motherfucker because i love it i fucking love it absolutely yeah i love it it's you this person you can't understand that fun for me is not fun for you i don't have fun sitting on the fucking uh on the riverbank drinking fucking beers bro that now once in a while i do but like that's not my main goal in life and dude I come here every day, bro.

I get to see gazillion tags on my social media of people changing their lives with 75 Hard and Live Hard or the podcast or building a business or losing 100 pounds here through our transformation contest.

Like, dude, what the fuck is more fun than that?

Like, and then doing it with your friends.

Like,

you, you know, one of the things that we talk about, dude, is, is being happy, right?

And a lot of people can't figure out that happiness is like not this place.

that we arrive at.

It's an emotion that we create over and over and over again throughout the day that compounds.

And part of what that is, is the people that you do it with and the, and the thing that you do.

And so, you know, when you have a good purpose and you have good people and you have discipline working for you and you're grateful to do it, bro, it's impossible not to have fun and be happy.

It's impossible.

So, yeah.

And I know that's a little off track, bro, but like it all intertwines together, you know?

No, I love it, man.

Absolutely.

I mean,

I stumbled into what I'm doing now and I love it.

I mean, we always say we hire to retire at our company.

But I mean, the way I feel about where I work and what I do is I'm, I'm here until I die almost, man.

I don't know what else I would do.

Yeah.

I mean, I love, love this so much.

And I, I just want to be able to inspire other people to do that.

And that's why I want to be that great leader.

Yeah.

I want to be able to instill that same pride.

with what they're doing for us, you know, as a company.

You know, we're all winning, but I want them to feel that same pride as well.

For sure, dude.

And that's a noble thing.

And that's a great thing that all great leaders possess.

It's not just about them.

The greatest leaders in the world, it's not about them.

That's like the misconception of great leaders.

Like

great leaders are almost to the point where they don't want the attention.

They don't want people to notice them.

They want people to notice the team.

And poor leaders, are kind of like what we have running the governments of the world, right?

It's about ego and it's about recognition and it's about,

you know, I'm the shit.

I'm the most powerful.

Dude, that's not, that's not even real power, dude.

Real power is changing so many motherfuckers' lives that they tell everybody all the good shit about you.

You know what I mean?

So,

and dude, I don't know about you, but when I die, I hope that, you know, people will at least say, hey, that guy, you know, he made my life a lot different.

My life would have been a lot different in a bad way had I not come across Andy Versella.

That's what the fuck I want.

And

you can't fake that.

You can't half-ass it, bro.

You got to be real.

You got to invest time in people.

You got to care about people.

And bro, you already have these qualities, man.

Like, I'm actually super excited to hear from you because a lot of people just, they want to be great leaders, but they lack the ability to care about people enough to be great leaders.

You know?

Yeah, I think some of the greatest things I get to see from my team right now is not just how well they're doing in work, but I've hired some younger people that have had an opportunity to learn some skills and I've gotten to see their personal life grow around them.

And that's been sort of the most rewarding, I guess I would say, outside of work is being able to see them to kind of transform their personal lives

to be able to do some different things that they weren't doing before.

Bro, it's the greatest fucking thing ever.

Like, dude, when I started in business, you know, I was I was broke, dude.

So, y'all, obviously, when I'm young, you know, my goal was to take care of myself.

I had a lot of cool shit that I wanted to do in my life.

And, you know, I live a ridiculously cool life and have for a long time.

But what I derive

value out of and what I get excited about now is exactly what you just said.

When I see young people start, work,

learn, build skills, build a career, you know, move through the chain.

you know, get engaged, get married, have a kid, buy their first house, buy their second house.

Like these.

Nice car.

Those are the fuck.

That is the fucking best thing ever.

It's the best thing ever.

So I totally feel you on that, bro.

Yeah.

Trevor, I enjoy you calling in, dude.

Why don't you

call in on a regular basis, bro?

I like talking to people that got a little bit of the idea going.

You know what I'm saying?

It sounds like you're doing real good, bro.

I appreciate that, man.

Absolutely.

I'd love to talk to you guys more.

I mean, DJ Andy, you guys really providing a great service, man.

I mean, I've been listening to the podcast now for a little over a year.

It's really changed a lot about how I approach things and how I think about things.

And I'm really, you know, really thankful for you guys doing this and putting the effort in, man.

I mean, free of charge.

I mean, I share the show absolutely with family, friends.

But, man, I just, I really appreciate what you guys are doing here.

Well, bro, we appreciate you too, because the whole reason we do this is so that people like you will go out and do exactly what you're doing.

So it's really cool to hear this.

Honestly, dude, like this makes my whole fucking day, to be honest.

So

I appreciate you, bro.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, guys.

Appreciate the time.

All right.

See you, Trevor.

See you, Trevor.

Yeah, dude, I love that.

I was going to ask you, I mean,

because

it's very important.

Like, there has to be measurements, right, in life.

You have to be able to measure.

uh your goals whatever it is your weight loss right you got to use your scale so as a leader what is the measurement of a good leader?

Like, what is that unit of measurement for a good leader?

I don't know.

I mean, first of all, winning.

I mean, the fucking scoreboard.

Are you fucking winning?

Yeah.

Okay.

And different teams have different cultures.

You know, at the highest level of anything, business, sports, whatever, organizations,

the scoreboard is the fucking, I mean, it's no one, you're expected to have all the other shit, you know.

As you get lower, you know,

there can be more room for development and growth.

And

it's kind of like when someone starts to work out with weights and they've never worked out before, the amount of growth that they have right in the beginning is

just a lot.

Okay.

And then when they become a peak athlete, they can train much harder and get diminishing returns.

And so when you're at the highest level,

you know, the returns returns that you see maybe not be as great, but they really help sharpen performance to put points on the board.

And I think that when you're, you know, when you're in the phase of leadership of development, I believe that, yes, points on the board are the most important thing still, but another metric that must be considered is the growth of the individuals and the team in terms of development.

of skill sets that they they need to win.

Yeah.

You know,

so I, you know, it just depends on where you are you know if you're coaching the chiefs um

you know there and someone you know drops five passes you know it's it's not the conversation isn't oh well you dropped seven last year it's get the fuck off the team you're not good enough okay but when you're in high school and you drop five passes the conversation is a little different you get what i'm saying yeah so well the stakes are different yeah and it just depends on where you are you know we

you know,

we're operating at the highest level here now.

Now we are at, we have graduated to the point in our companies where it's, you got to put up.

Okay.

But that doesn't mean that I don't, that I stopped trying to develop.

Doesn't mean I stopped trying to teach.

But before we were, you know, like 10 years ago when we weren't here, it was more so taking people and developing them.

They had tremendous amounts of growth.

It just depends on where you're at, what the culture of the team is and what you're doing.

But I think the ultimate, the ultimate measure of a great leader is always the scoreboard okay it just is i love it dude so and that scoreboard could look different if you're a teacher that scoreboard might be how many of the kids uh graduated at a certain percentage right uh how many went on to be successful how many went on to do this if you're the coach of a football team in high school how many of your players went on to college how many graduated it's it's i guess what i'm saying is is that it just depends yeah you know what i mean but whatever your scoreboard i will say this you gotta be points on it i will say this.

Great leaders, in my opinion, value the scoreboard and the development of their team.

And they look at

what the scoreboard says, what the growth of their team is.

And if they're really good leaders,

they look at that growth across all spectrums of that person's life.

They try to develop that into a high character, high functioning, high contributing human in society.

That doesn't mean they're going to be perfect.

That doesn't mean that they're going to have, not going to have flaws.

You know, a lot of times when people hear certain leaders talk, they think that that leader is, you know, presenting themselves as holier than thou, when in reality, there is no perfection.

There's always going to be

weak points in people's lives.

And, you know, that's called being a human.

And a great leader will try to help people work through those things,

in my opinion, 360 in their life.

You know what I'm saying?

Hey, hey, hey, bro.

Look, dude, you've been here.

It's fucking, it's, you have three kids at home.

You've been here every day for two weeks till 10 o'clock.

And I know it's because you got three kids at home.

You're right.

Get your fucking ass home.

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

So, right.

It's, there's a lot of that kind of stuff.

You know, hey, you good?

Well, I could tell you, I could tell you're, you know, a little off.

What's slipping?

What's going on?

You know, like, that's not in your character.

These are, these are the kind of things, and it can't be fake.

You have to actually care.

It can't be like lip service.

They can fucking feel it.

Oh, yeah.

You know, you know, do you know when you're being sold?

Absolutely.

So do they.

So you got to be genuine, dude.

And I think most of the things in life, like we talk about this a lot, being a great salesperson, being great at speaking, being great at a leadership,

being great at running a company, these all start with the proper intent because people can fucking feel it.

You know what I'm saying?

So,

yeah.

I mean, it's

the metric is it's different for everybody.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, like Coach Wooden, who's the most successful basketball coach, the most successful coach of all time, you know, he didn't just

look at his victory as the points on the board.

I mean, he started with like, hey, this is how we're going to put our socks on.

This is how we're going to put our shoes on.

This is how we're going to run the drills.

And he would.

gauge success not off the scoreboard, but off the fucking the effectiveness of the discipline during the practice, which is why the points appeared on the scoreboard, right?

Same thing Nick Saban does.

Nick Saban talks about, you know, we're not going to practice till we get it right.

We're going to practice till we cannot get it wrong.

That's a complete different fucking standard that most people don't understand.

And

when you are of the

leader, when you are in a leadership position and you want to really build a great team,

you've got to push them to the point where they're not going to fuck it up.

It's become second nature.

It's breathing.

It's it's it's automatic, you know, it's tying your shoes, you know what I mean?

Yeah, absolutely, dude.

That's some gas for Monday, bro.

Yeah, yeah, man.

All right.

So, uh, yeah, we'll see you tomorrow, right?

Yes, sir.

All right.

All right, guys.

You know the deal.

Uh, don't be a hoe.

Share the show.

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