Episode #381 (Originally aired 03/18/16)

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Month series, Real Time with Bill Maud.

Start the clock.

Good afternoon.

Afternoon.

Time will be

real time.

you doing?

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Oh, please, please.

All right.

You're in.

Okay, all right, all right, all right.

You're in a

okay.

You're

obviously

thank you very much, folks.

You're obviously in a great mood.

Let me bring you right down.

No, it's my job to give you important news.

I usually try to stay with the positive stuff, but this is important.

The EPA announced the other day that the Flint water thing,

not just in Flint, 20% of this country has lead in the water.

That's the bad news.

On the bright side, it does kind of help explain the Trump thing.

Oh, yes, he's still going strong.

The Trump NATO struck through four states on Tuesday.

Did you watch Tuesday?

Oh, he is getting a lot closer to wrapping up the apocalypse.

And

it's, yeah, he killed Rubio, knocked Rubio out of the race, killed him in his home state of Florida.

I mean, I have not seen a Cuban in Miami get taken out like that

since

Scarface, I think.

And

yeah, and the Trump supporters, they're not that bright.

You know, they said, see, he can get rid of Mexicans.

They're not bright.

Oh, little Marco.

We're going to miss little Marco, aren't we?

Yeah, he made a very impassioned speech when he was leaving.

He said it was tough to run a positive campaign in today's political climate.

And twice as hard when you're going through puberty.

So he.

Now,

the one bright spot in the Stop Trump movement is on Tuesday John Kasich won his home state of Ohio.

But, yeah, very exciting.

I know.

But even if John Kasich won every other state, he still would not have enough delegates to win the nomination.

So Republicans are coming around to the idea that their only savior from Donald Trump is Ted Cruz.

I know.

It's like the horror movie where the guy runs up to the policeman and thinks he's saved, and the policeman turns around, and it's one of the zombies.

But you know what?

Hey,

life is about shitty choices.

I'm sorry.

And if I have to choose between Donald Trump or Ted Cruz, count me in for Ted Cruz.

Donald, Donald,

you know why?

I mean, it would be horrible, but it wouldn't be as unpredictably horrible as Donald Trump.

Donald Trump literally this week said the words, All I know is what's on the internet.

I'm not kidding.

This country is in big trouble if liberals don't snap out of their reality world.

All I know is what's on the internet.

This guy's going to change America's symbol from the bald eagle to a turtle fucking a shoe.

Of course, the other big story this week, President Obama nominated a justice for the Supreme Court.

That's right.

And it is Merrick Garland.

I never heard of him, but it sounds like a hotel, doesn't it?

We're over at the Merrick Garland.

It's fabulous.

We used to be at the Charlton Heston, but we moved over to the

Merrick Garland.

It's owned by Mormons, but still a very nice place.

But it's so funny because he's someone who Republicans in the past have said would be a great choice for the Supreme Court.

But now that President Blackenstein has nominated him,

no way Jose, which is, of course, also their immigration policy.

And it's funny because

Mitch McConnell basically said, oh, we see through you, Obama, naming a qualified, uncontroversial centrist who no reasonable person could reject just to make us look like dicks when we start acting like dicks.

We're not going to, yeah, we are going to fall for that.

And

listen.

Just a few days ago, Republican Senator Icon Orin Hatch said, literally, word for word, Obama could easily name Merrick Garland, who is a fine man.

But I don't think he...

He did what?

I said Derek Garland.

Did you think I

mean, this is getting beyond parody at this point?

Republicans are saying we can't let Obama or Hillary make an irresponsible choice that will damage our nation for a generation.

Have you met our nominee, Donald Trump?

No.

I mean,

yes, we can't

trust it to that dangerous radical Hillary Clinton like she'd nominate wavy gravy for the Supreme Court.

Hillary had a very big day on Tuesday.

Are there Hillary people?

Well, don't vote Hillary.

I know.

Bernie Sanders had a bad day Tuesday.

Hillary swept all five states.

I mean, I know, no, no, it's true.

I mean, they're looking very confident over there.

Bill Clinton is feeling very confident about being back at the White House.

He was wearing a hat today that said, make America fallate again.

All right, we got a great show.

Barney Frank, Rick Wilson, and sister Simone Campbell are here.

And a little later, I will be speaking with Grammy winner Esperanza Spaulding.

But first up, he is the Iraq war correspondent who wrote and directed the new documentary, Only the Dead See the End of War, airing on HBO starting March 28th.

Michael Ware is back with us.

Michael.

We're seeing you in the crime brother.

We're seeing the crime.

How are you?

How are you, Michael?

Always good to see you alive.

God, it's been many lives and deaths since we saw each other last.

And now we're living in a Trump nation.

So, you know, what do we do with ourselves?

Where are you from, Australia?

Yeah, the furthest part of the planet you can possibly imagine.

So right now it's the best place.

Those fucking Australians are taking over and we're not going to let you.

We're doing it very fucking quietly, you Sepo bastard.

All right.

So I watched your movie.

I got a screen.

Sorry for that.

Stop touching me.

And

I know.

He acts coyotes.

Okay, all right.

Anyway.

I know.

Seven years in Iraq, it gets lonely.

I'm sure it gets very, very lonely.

Those deserts are a very dark and lonely place.

Lord knows you cannot hit on the local chips.

Yeah.

That would not go away.

That was a desert sentence.

The three blokes I know who did that all ended up dead.

Is that true?

No shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No shit.

Anyway, moving right along.

Now, let's talk about this.

That takes a lot of balls in a Muslim country.

And you'll lose them, too.

But yeah.

All right, so

but your movie is, I I feel that's gonna be the feel-good hit of the summer.

It's the rom-com that everyone's gonna it's a date movie.

No, it's uh it's really fucking not, is it?

You cannot stop watching it, I'll tell you.

Because you shot over 250 hours on your own little camera when you were in Iraq.

And this is really about the birth of ISIS

and Zarqawi and all that.

And before let's go back a little before that, because before there was Zarqawi,

there was the insurgency, which was something different.

America kicked over Saddam Hussein, and then there's a very

interesting scene where you show there's a point where an American soldier fires into a car at a checkpoint, killing an Iraqi.

Yeah, a kid, a kid.

Have you seen the Iraqi's brother?

Yeah, who was in the car with him?

Very emotional, saying, America, you're going to pay.

And I thought, there's your insurgency right there.

Well, that's exactly right.

I mean, it was almost at the point, and to the military's credit, they knew this.

It's almost

for every one person we killed or captured,

we actually created two or three

new or more insurgents.

I mean we were almost in a no-win situation.

And the incident you're talking about, there's two kids, two brothers, one's like 17 and one's like 15, they were driving.

through our neighborhood where Time magazine lived to get the family's monthly food ration.

It just so happens that there was an American raid going on hunting for Saddam that obviously didn't find him and some nervous GI lights up their car.

And so this 15 year old watches his 17 year old brother's brains blown all over him.

And I was there shortly thereafter and it just so happened I stumbled on the kid's funeral the next day.

And that's what you see.

Who can't relate to that?

Well, that's a universal,

but that's a universal pain.

None of us

are universal pain.

Of course we can all relate to that.

And I think African-American

can relate to that more than anyone else.

But we can all relate to that kind of universal pain.

Okay, so when you see the way some politicians in this country talk about what we should do now, I mean, if you watch the Republican debates, they all talk about how, you know what we got to do with ISIS?

We got to put boots on the ground.

They all want to go back in there, and you know what, we're going to do it quick.

We're going to wipe them out and come home.

Yeah.

We couldn't do it quick when we had 150,000.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it seems insane

amnesia this country has about its recent past.

The Russians pulled out of Syria this week.

How come we're the only country that can't ever fucking leave a place?

Putin gets it.

Putin does get it.

You're very good at quagmires.

But what

will we say?

No.

One of us is a pothead, one is an Iraq war veteran.

This conversation could go sideways very easily.

Pick the toka.

No,

I was actually pausing for a moment because...

What I was thinking about was to your point.

I know what all of this saber rattling and all of this adventurism

shaves away from the souls of your children.

I've seen it, man.

It's in your movie.

If our film serves nothing else, it's not just to remind you all of that.

Because, you know, you've been told, but there's no way you can know.

What we hope is that if you give us 78 minutes of your lives with this movie,

there will be one moment for all of you in this film where you will be in Iraq.

And you'll see what it took from your children, from your Marines, from your soldiers.

Because

it's more than the physical.

It's about that place in the head and the heart that you have to go to.

We hope that we actually transport you.

This is not a film that you watch.

We want this to be a film that you experience.

Because you know what?

Almost

3 million of your children have experienced something like this.

You know what it reminded me of was Apocalypse Now.

The way you talk about Zarkawi, who is the guy who, as you say accurately, hijacked the insurgency.

And the insurgency wasn't really a religious war.

It had nothing to do with religion.

He hijacked this, and this is the forebearer of ISIS.

Well, no, no, this is ISIS.

Let's not forget one of the darkest legacies of our invasion, and I say our because Australia was a part of that and Britain was a part of that, we're the West.

The darkest legacy of our invasion of Iraq is that unwittingly,

we unleash the Islamic State upon ourselves.

Of course.

And upon the rest of the world.

And that's just a fact.

Right?

And what it takes to reach out and touch that darkness, even to combat it,

you will see in this film.

And it's funny you mention Apocalypse Now because, you know, I had three hundred.

This is like Kurt's.

Well.

We're trying to find this mythical figure who's been in the jungle too long and has gone crazy.

And is bringing craziness to the whole country.

Yeah, it's crazy wholesale, you know.

And look.

But what about you?

Are you better now?

You don't seem like you're quite as crazy as you used to be.

I was about to say go fuck yourself, but thank you, brother.

No, look.

Do you sleep okay?

Yeah,

I actually sleep now.

I went for over a decade where I didn't.

Right.

And like many of your veterans, some of them are still struggling too.

Some of them have done what I've done, but you know, I've finally made it home.

Right.

Now, home will never be the same again.

For the rest of my life, to the day I die, I will walk with ghosts.

But you know what?

That's a privilege.

And I've I've found a way to live with that.

And

some days that makes life better, and some days that makes life harder.

But I have found my way home.

And if I can share that in a piece of film that lasts 78 minutes on your TV screens, then you know what?

Michael, maybe some of those ghosts are worth it.

Ladies, he's on Christian Mingle.

Welcome up.

Michael, it's always great to see you.

You fucking come.

Let's Let's meet our friend.

An interesting guy.

Well done.

All right, he was my favorite congressman.

Now he's the author of Frank, A Life in Politics, from the Great Society to Same-Sex Marriage, now a Valburn paperback, Barney Frank.

Barney Frank.

He's a Republican strategist who contributes contributes to the Daily Beast, the Federalist and Politico.

I see him on TV all the time these days.

Rick Wilson.

Hey, Rick, how you doing?

Thanks for having me.

And she is executive director for the nonprofit organization Network and author of A Nun on the Bus, now in Paperback, tonight, or None on the Panel.

Sister Simone Campbell.

Sister,

how are you?

I'm great.

Thank you.

All right, remember to send us your questions for tonight's overtime so we can answer them after the show on YouTube.

Let's talk about the Supreme Court nomination.

Help me out, panel.

I'm a little confused because a justice died a few weeks ago, and I thought it was the president's job to then nominate somebody.

So before he did, the Republicans said, well, let's give the people a voice in this.

As if they didn't, as if Obama won the presidency in a card game.

He was elected twice.

I thought that was the voice.

Okay, so now he nominates this centrist guy who the Republicans formally had said they would like on the Supreme Court.

And now they are saying, well, let's wait until the lame duck session, which is after the election but before the president takes office in January.

They're always talking about principles.

What principle is this?

Well, I think it's strictly the principle of Mitch McConnell's decision that President Obama should only be a one-term president.

So he's doing everything he can.

A no-term president.

Well, that would have been his preference.

But he did acknowledge the first term.

He's now trying to stop any activity in the second.

He's been successful on some issues, but I think in the end he won't be successful on this one.

I think what McConnell's doing is actually some very important and smart politics.

Take aside all the meta picture of the president's role.

But Mitch McConnell knows one thing very clearly.

If they allow an Obama justice to go forward at this point, it will blow a gigantic hole in the Republican coalition like we've never seen seen before.

They have drawn a bright line.

They have sworn this is a line they're not going to cross.

Is that what the Supreme Court is supposed to be?

I'm a shameless political guy.

I know what they're putting in.

But aren't you an American first?

There's no constitutional requirement whatsoever.

There's no constitutional requirement that they name justices on the schedule, that they approve them.

This advises and consent rule, and it doesn't have to, there's nothing in the Constitution that says there have to be nine justices.

But your position assumes a fact, not an evidence, that there is a GOP coalition.

I mean, you already see this factor.

Well, listen, listen.

I don't like the fractioning of the coalition because that's Donald Trump causing a lot of that.

But the fact of the matter is the leadership has told the base, the leadership has told Republicans, this is our line, we're not crossing it.

And for once, they seem to be holding the line.

There are a few cracks here and there, but the fact of the matter is this is a fundamentally political.

It seems like your priority

are skewed.

Barney?

Probably.

I spent 40 years as an elected official.

I ran for office 20 times.

I understand the role of politics, but I am disappointed, Rick, that blatant

explicit elevation of the needs of keeping your coalition together over the functioning of the federal government is awful.

And by the way, it doesn't say there have to be nine justices.

But there is overwhelming argument for there being an odd number of justices, a 4-4 decision.

Well, then I'm happy if

he wants to retire.

I'm sorry.

Do you have another ⁇ have I offended the Republican coalition by what I just said?

All right, now, if I may continue, a 4-4,

given the way things work, it has been at 9, it has been at 7.

You don't do an even number.

But yes, it is in the Constitution that the president gets to make an appointment.

And what McConnell is putting forward is a nonsense theory, namely that it's only a three-year term.

But the thing that really makes it clear is what Bill alluded to.

They're now saying, well, we'll do it in the lame duck section.

It has always been held that the least democratically valid period in the American electoral system is a period when everybody in office has just been through an election.

And so people who have been defeated, people who have been retired, people who are clearly subject to no electoral mandate, get to make the decision.

And it's so blatant.

They're saying, if the person we like wins the election,

we go with with that guy.

But there's also a question in the minds of Republicans.

Right now, Barack Obama has had a couple of Supreme Court nominations,

and the thought of having the court reshaped for decades with a liberal...

But that's the rule.

There's no rule that says

we have to put it on his side.

I have been somewhat, look, I think Donald Trump will be the nominee and will lose badly.

And I was hoping that one thing that would come from that is that Republican leadership that have been playing too much to their base, and the argument we just heard is, I'm sorry, why do you have to keep interrupting everything I say?

Is it that affecting?

I didn't even speak.

No, you opened your mouth and raised your hand.

I assumed that meant you were going to speak.

I didn't think you were stifling a yawn.

But the point is, the point is this.

You're nothing if not funny.

The point is this.

Can I even tell you something about that?

Let Barney finish, Rick.

I've had him on the show many times.

Let him finish.

I had hoped that the Republican responsible elements had learned from this that they had played too much to their base, that they had encouraged too much that kind of bipartisanship, that they would recover from that.

And what you've just done is to say, no, that's exactly where we are.

We're putting catering to the base ahead of having a functioning Supreme Court.

Could I remind the audience of a

word that we coined about a year or two ago?

It's called blacktracking.

We made this up, of course.

And there it is, to blacktrack, the act of changing one's mind because President Obama agreed with you.

So.

The Affordable Care Act, yes.

Arin Hatch.

The president told me several times he's going to name a moderate, but I don't believe him.

He could easily name Merrick Garland, who is a fine man.

He mentioned him by name.

And is this not blacktracking?

blacktracking?

It's backtracking.

All right.

Let's move on.

Why did Hillary Clinton win so big on Tuesday?

After she lost Michigan, everybody thought Bernie Sanders was going to do pretty well.

He guaranteed they would win Ohio.

They didn't win Ohio.

They didn't win Illinois.

They didn't win anywhere on Tuesday.

Is this because Democrats are so scared of Donald Trump that they are now saying, well, we got to get behind the most likely?

I have a hunch that's really a big piece of it, and interest in pragmatism of who can win in the long run.

I was recently in Minnesota, which did go for Sanders, with a bunch of college kids who were totally for Sanders.

But then they said to me, we're for him, but we don't know if he can win.

We're worried, but we like what he says.

And I think that pragmatism is really taking hold.

And yet in polls, he beats Trump better than Hillary does.

Is that crazy?

No?

No, I think

with two points related, although I must say, I just was reading in the clips you gave me, Sanders minimizing Hillary Clinton's wins in Missouri and Illinois because they were so narrow, but they were about the same margin, what the Illinois one was, as his one in Michigan.

So there was a little Hillary tracking back there because that margin became much more significant.

But here I think is the thing.

Bernie Sanders complained early on about being ignored, but he benefited from that.

That is, look, he escaped until recently any serious scrutiny of his record.

He successfully ran as an outsider despite having been in Congress for 25 years.

That's a great feat.

And I think what happened was you had a whole bunch of liberal economists put out an analysis of some of his programs, which was very critical, and I think accurately so.

I think what happened was

As he gets more scrutiny, he gets hurt, not because he's particularly vulnerable, but because up until recently, he was immune from the kind of scrutiny that every other candidate was getting.

And I think now that the scrutiny is there, the New York Times editorializing critically, these economists doing that, that's also a part of that focus on his record.

Can I read you what Hillary said this week that got a lot of criticism from both sides?

She said, we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business.

I don't think she was saying it like, oh, goody.

She was saying, this is the world we live in.

Let's not put our stock in blockbuster when we live in a streaming era.

Wise move.

She has a 30 billion plan to take coal communities and transform them into clean energy communities.

You would think this...

But this is the problem with our politics.

She should be popular for this, and she's public enemy number one because people want to stick with the worst job ever.

But it's, I mean, that particular clip was almost, I felt at that moment like, why are you giving, why are you putting your head on the block for me to cut it off with ads in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and all these places?

Because those folks there, they don't look at the future and say, oh, this $30 billion plan that may or may not emerge is going to be real for them.

They don't believe it.

They have a deep skepticism.

It's infected the entire

black line.

No, it's not, no, Bill, it's not the choice.

It's not that they love the industry.

It's that they don't feel that that promise has any validity for their future.

But the other problem is that most of the coal jobs have gone away with mountaintop removal.

They don't exist.

There's more solar jobs than tunnel jobs already.

I'm not a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton and have been, and that was a dumb way to put it.

Look, that's a fact.

You do try to put your best foot forward.

And

the problem is this.

First of all, there is a lot of skepticism about government.

So to believe the $30 billion alternative requires people to have more confidence in government than they have, not necessarily than I have.

The other point, though, and this is, I think, a valid criticism of this, yes, it is important when you lose some jobs to get them elsewhere.

But as a matter of fact, the likelihood that 58-year-old coal miners are going to become the solar engineers of the future is nil.

A better approach to that is what President Obama was talking about.

Employment insurance.

That is, you say, look, we are sorry that having worked so hard at a very tough job, things are going against you.

We're going to provide you some income support.

We're not going to make them solar engineers.

I think I can guarantee a 58-year-old coal miner will get lung cancer.

Right, but he's already got that.

And so the question is, don't tell him I'm putting you out of work because

we want to fight climate change.

And she was saying the right thing to fight climate change.

But what this is an argument for, I believe, is economic support for people like this, reducing the age of Medicare to 55, doing some other things that make it possible for them to live with some dignity when their job has gone away for reasons that aren't their full.

Okay.

There was

some very sad news this week in the world of advertising.

My favorite ad of all time, The Most Interesting Man in the World, have you ever seen it?

You don't watch television.

No, I am.

Good for you.

Game of Thrones, you'd love it.

But,

you know, you know it, the Dosakis ads.

These were the funniest.

do you have a little bit of that cuz I I'm gonna miss it and I would love to see a little bit more of it before it goes away

His small talk has altered foreign policy

He once ran a marathon because it was on his way

Sasquatch has taken a photograph of him

He is the most interesting man in the world

He was my hero, but they are retiring him, and we wanted to find out why.

Apparently, he's been slipping up.

He's not really that interesting anymore.

We got the ad copy for the ad they were gonna, the next one they were gonna make, and I see what they mean.

Would you like to hear some of these?

Because

it's just a shame what happened.

He once considered getting a tattoo, but decided against it.

Yeah, see, it's just

when his chip breaks in the dip, he uses another bigger chip to fish it out.

Women having sex with him forget what they came in the room for.

His password, his password.

As recently as 2014, he was still saying for shizzle.

He once saw saw Paul Giamatti at a taco stand.

He is no longer the most interesting man in the world.

I don't always drink beer, my friends, but when I do, it makes me pee a lot.

All right.

She is a Grammy Award-winning singer, and her fifth solo album is Emily's D plus Evolution.

Her current tour includes the Apollo Theater on April 14th.

Please welcome Esperanza Spaulding.

All right.

Great to have you here.

It's so great when we ever have a show business person who's very smart because we, you know, the panel's usually very wonky, no offense.

So I think I first became familiar with you at the Grammys when you beat out Justin Bieber for

Best New Worlds, what year was that?

2011, I think.

Oh my gosh.

Justin Bieber's only been around for five years.

It seems like a lot of people.

Yeah.

He's not so bad.

He's not so bad.

He's pretty bad.

No, no.

He's terrible.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Yeah.

So, and also, before we get to the heavy issues, tell me what's going on in the music industry, because I have musician friends, and some of them are actually quite successful.

And the term struggling musician, when I was young, referred to people who didn't have a record out yet.

Now it's people who are actually quite well known and they sell records, they just don't make money.

Yeah, that's most of us, actually.

Yeah, we have to find new ways to get a lot of money.

Well, what happened there?

Whew, a lot.

A lot has happened there.

I mean, there's music on the internet, there's music on Spotify, there's music on YouTube.

They're stealing.

And yeah,

you can get it any way you want now, so you don't have to go to iTunes and pay 99 cents for your song or whatever it is now.

You don't have to go to the microphone.

Why buy the cow if you're getting the

musical milk?

The musical milk is flowing down into our mouths.

I think that's a lot of it.

I think that's a lot of it.

And

what?

I don't know.

I don't know.

Well, I mean, do you want to leave your house and go hear some live music?

That's like a big question mark.

That's our musicians have to make their living.

I know.

That's the only way they do it.

I know.

And even that is slipping because of the internet.

You can go and taste and touch and feel like you've experienced everything.

There's holograms of Michael Jackson.

That's right.

That's right.

And only when you have taken the time to go out and experience what happens in the live space, do you remember that it's worth going to pay for that experience in the live space?

So you put out this record, We Are America.

I love it.

And it's about something.

It's what we used to call a protest record.

And often back in the day, protest records kind of suffered because it was about the message.

But this is a great record.

I mean, the music is great.

Thank you.

And it's about Guantanamo Bay and how we should close Guantanamo Bay, which the president has been trying to do

for a very long time.

I'm curious, of all the issues in the world that you could have adopted, why Guantanamo Bay?

It hit me hard.

I mean, the reality of that ongoing illegal camp that can't even be called a prisoner of war camp because we weren't technically at war at the places where we picked those people up, it's shocking to me, and it's horrifying that it still exists.

And it seems like candidates who are not very eligible to be the poster child of an issue, it's these men that we never have to see, that we associate with these terrifying enemies, but their stories are ongoing and need to be spoken about.

And we can put a man on the moon.

I think we can absolutely solve this issue, and I wanted to talk about it.

Well, actually.

that was staged.

They landed in Arizona.

We never put a bet on the moon.

But if people are not aware, there are 91 prisoners left at Guantanamo.

This is down from almost 800 at one point.

600 of the 779, that's the actual number who were there, have been released without charges.

In other words, we had many, many innocent people here.

I think this is your point, that this is America

where we shouldn't be known for imprisoning people who are innocent.

Yeah, in fact, 23 of the men there have been designated to remain indefinitely without charge or trial.

So there's a category of humans in detention at American hands that cannot be charged with a crime.

They are not going to be tried, but they're too dangerous to be released.

So we know they're dangerous, but we can't prove why.

So they're just supposed to sit there until they die.

Right.

They're just in American custody.

So

obviously that's not

of the 91 who

are left, 35 have been already cleared for release.

36 have been cleared for release.

Okay, one more now.

So

why not put the other 55 in supermax prisons?

The Republicans wouldn't allow that because they're so brave that if they're just on American soil, I mean, this seems like it would be a good issue for you.

Well, we could take it up, but the fact is, I think your point is so important that the people have not been charged or tried.

And what happened to the rule of law?

That's the whole principle of the Constitution.

Well, maybe the Supreme Court will take it up.

Yes.

With nine people.

We don't have one.

It's only eight.

The problem is it'll be four, four, and we won't get a decision.

Exactly.

No, we may never have nine again.

Here's a case they are going to be taking up.

DAPA.

Do you know what DAPA is?

Deferred action for parents of Americans.

This is basically parents of kids who are born here from Mexico mostly.

So basically the kids are citizens because they would call them anchor babies, but that's in the Constitution.

So what Obama did with his executive order that I know the Republicans hate was said that if the kids are born here, the parents can stay.

Well this would actually legalize about half of the 11 million undocumented.

It doesn't legalize them.

It

allows them to stay.

It allows them to stay with deferral of deportation, but they still don't have legal status.

But they can stay with their kids.

In a nation that supports family values, this seems important, especially since I'm at a family in Kansas City where the parents went who had been working here for 10 years, both parents working, supporting their family.

They have three citizen kids and two dreamers.

Kids were brought here from Mexico.

Parents go pay a parking ticket at the police station, they end up getting deported, leaving five kids.

The 12-year-old, who is in charge, the 16-year-old is in charge.

The 12-year-old was so upset, so distraught, she attempted suicide because she thought it would be better for her family if she wasn't there.

It wouldn't be so much stress on them without having their parents.

This is wrong in the richest nation on earth.

When we've got people supporting our community working hard, they have a right to stay.

Actually.

There is a video that was going around the internet.

I'm not going to claim that we found it, but I thought for people who haven't seen it, it might be very interesting to watch.

It's from the 1980 presidential debates when George Bush I was running against Ronald Reagan.

Take a look at a little bit of it.

Look,

I'd like to see something done about the illegal alien problem that would be so sensitive and so understanding about labor needs and human needs.

We're creating a whole society of really honorable, decent, family-loving people that are in violation of the law.

And I think, but we haven't been sensitive enough to our size and our power.

Rather than making them or talking about putting up a fence, why don't we work out some recognition of our mutual problems, make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and then while they're working and earning here, they pay taxes here.

And when they want to go back, they can go back and they can cross and open the border both ways.

Let me just

tell you what your case that just landed from Mars.

This is the Republican Party.

Bush says, let's be more sensitive and understanding.

He says they're honorable, decent, family-loving people.

Reagan says, we haven't been sensitive enough about our size and power, and rather than build a fence, open the border both ways.

What happened?

Well, I'll tell you what happened.

I'll tell you what happened.

There was a glitch in Donald Trump's internet, and he didn't get that.

That's a pardon right now.

I think a lot of the anxiety among Americans about the immigration problem reflects a lot of there is a sense that there's been a job displacement in a lot of lower middle class and middle class American families.

It's not necessarily the case that it's caused by that, but they believe it's caused by that.

They feel it's been ascribed to the- Oh, some of it has been caused by that.

Some of it has.

I mean, like in the construction industry, absolutely.

And in some of it, folks don't understand the fact that in California and Florida and other places that

migrant workers are an essential part of the agricultural economy in this country.

The folks that think we can build the 5,000-foot wall and that we're going to deport 11 million people mostly listen to Donald Trump and they believe that he's speaking

the literal truth.

There are people on my side of the fence that understand that we have to address this problem.

There are legitimate border security concerns and legitimate concerns about

criminal activity, but there are also things that are problems we can't just sweep under the rug.

We can't pretend they're not real.

We have to address them at some point, but

it's got to be a situation right now politically in this country where, unless we talk about the security questions first, we're not going to get a political consensus in this country

without something like that first.

And I can tell you, I've worked enough around the U.S.

Senate and around members of Congress.

But, Rick, the problem is we've been doing security first for the last

20 years.

But let me tell you something.

Unless Americans believe that

and the thing.

Well, your side needs to measure up.

Look, I've got a constructive approach here, but what I'm telling you is if there's not a recognition that the folks that are here illegally

are going to submit to the process of trying to legalize their status in some way, and they're going to start playing by the rules.

a problem with what you're saying.

Yes, there is this perception that we haven't done security, but sister is right, we have.

In fact, net immigration from Mexico is down.

That's an economic question.

Down.

It's been zero for years.

Is there some rule that I can't get three sections out without promoting?

Bonnie, you've had about ten to one.

You're doing fine.

You're doing fine.

I'm doing fine.

You're doing fine.

I'm trying to respond.

The fact is that we have, here's the problem.

It is the perception that we haven't solved the security problem, and that is a perception that is fueled by the demagogery on the Republican side.

And it is true.

It is true.

What you said is accurate.

Unfortunately, if you look at the Republicans, Trump is winning, Cruz, the anti-side appeals.

And in fact, the reality is that we have resolved this.

And as to criminality, let's be very clear.

Nobody is saying that if you did a criminal act other than being here without having gone through the process, you stay here.

So we are are not talking about protecting criminals from deportation, although I will tell you this.

There was resistance to that.

But it's over.

With regard to criminals, by the way, I'd rather knock them up here.

I don't like the idea of deporting them so they come back in.

Somebody does something really bad, I'd rather put them away for a lot of years.

But did you see the Democratic debate, excuse me, did you see the Democratic debate for Univision about a week ago?

Because there has been a real change with the Democrats, too.

Mission creep, I would call it.

I mean, I understand that their position was comprehensive immigration reform.

Now, in front of Univision, it seems to have morphed into, if you get across that river, you're here to stay.

Oh, I don't think that's really what was said.

Well,

it certainly wasn't what Hillary said two years ago, which was we have to send a clear message.

Just because your child gets across the border, that doesn't mean the child gets to stay.

She's changed her tune a lot.

But the reality on the ground has changed in Central America.

The reality in Central America is kids are being killed if they refuse to participate with the narcotraficantes.

And the fact is, kids being killed are the reason why kids are coming across the border.

And then you said, Bill, by the way, we need to address that.

That policy that if you get to America and put a foot on the ground, you're here forever.

Talk about hypocrisy and inconsistency.

That's true if you're Cuban.

And the Republican Party has almost unanimously supported this, so that Cubans, this put a foot on the ground and you stay here forever.

And that was okay because they were Cubans and they were Annie Castro, but it wasn't okay if they were Mexicans.

Well, okay.

So if I could just get back to the

Supreme Court is going to be ruling on this.

And California, my beloved adopted state here, we have 25%

of the country's legal immigrant population and also 25% of the undocumented population.

It's 34% of the farm workers here, 21% of its construction workers.

Contributes $130 billion to the economy.

All right, civic, education, business, religious leaders sent a friend of the court brief about this case that's coming up and basically said, don't do anything stupid.

We need them, we want them, they're contributing, and we have bigger problems.

Because

if

it's a two-sided thing economically, yes, they take jobs, then they buy things.

I mean, so that they were part of the economy.

This charade that goes on in the Republican Party, this is our biggest problem, that they're pouring across the border.

They're not.

In 1980, Mexican women were having seven children.

Now they're having two.

Our economy got better, I mean, worse, theirs got better.

So

it's not a real problem.

And when I look at the issues that animate Republicans, things like this,

his birth certificate, Benghazi, voter fraud, They have one thing in common.

They're imaginary.

They don't really exist.

That's important.

I will say this, Bill.

When we go out and do surveys, we look at most important problem panels all the time.

And I will tell you, immigration, unless you're a talk radio host, you work for Trump Bart or you're Donald Trump, Immigration never falls in the top five in almost any of these panels.

This has become a politically weaponized issue for a faction of the right on my side of the equation.

And I honestly believe that

a lot of the people that are angry about it, they're angry about it because they don't understand it and they're whipped up on it by folks that have weaponized.

Wait a second, though.

One second.

These are people.

These are people.

I'm taking a page from Bernie there, huh?

These are people.

These are people on the right who've learned that this brings a lot of eyeballs, a lot of clicks, a lot of listeners on talk radio, and they don't care about the long-term political damage to the Republican brand or the party.

Let me add one thing, too, by the way.

And And

this would not be the case if these immigrants were coming from a country of white people.

There was an element of racial prejudice in there, over and above behavior.

I mean, it's like Ebola.

If Ebola was happening in Ireland and Israel and Italy, there would not have been the demand that we keep anybody from those areas out of America.

Whenever they say, I want my country back, I always think, what was going on here in the 50s?

I mean, pregnant women could smoke, but what else was it?

That was...

I can never put my finger on what they are.

So all right, well thank you panel.

I have to go to New Rules, but you're very interested.

New rules, new rules, child psychologists have to explain why Ted Cruz smiles like someone who is both ashamed and proud of pooping his pants.

New rules, Hillary Clinton can ask Bernie Sanders, where were you when I was trying to get health care in 93?

And the Bernie Sanders camp can respond with this picture and the caption literally standing right behind you.

But let's be fair, Hillary's strong suit has never been knowing what a man was doing behind her back.

Oh no.

Oh no.

Neurule, you have to tell me which is more preposterous.

Which is more preposterous, the screaming baby with the ridiculous hair or that toddler?

New rule, people angry with the Dutch zookeeper who this week was caught on film gently masturbating a dolphin have to admit, The dolphin does seem to be enjoying it.

Look, you took him out of his natural habitat.

The least you could do is jerk him off every once in a while.

I'm going to get excommunicated again.

I already have been, so.

Oh, well.

New rule, race isn't a fashion trend.

A company called Emmitan is offering a spray tan for white people who want to look black.

It comes in three shades, caramel, chocolate, and shot by a cop.

The rub is when you get all sprayed up for your big night out and then you can't get a cab.

That's the problem.

And

finally, new rules, stop trying to pin the rise of Donald Trump on easy targets like racism, xenophobia, and fetal alcohol syndrome.

And put the blame where it belongs on the self-esteem movement.

The most important person in the whole wide world is you, and you hardly even know you.

The most important person in the whole wide world is you.

Come on, man, I'll show you.

Say what I mean.

If there's anything scarier than the fact that Donald Trump thinks he's the most important person in the world, it's that in eight months he could be.

Now,

pundits have been all over the map lately trying to explain the Trump phenomenon.

He's a con man, he's a Klansman, he's a clown.

Someone even keeps saying he's born of an orangutan.

I don't remember who that is.

But what Donald Trump really reminds me of is a spoiled five-year-old throwing a tantrum.

He is the grown-up version of every pain-in-the-ass kid who ever sat behind you on a plane, kicking the back of your seat while the parents did nothing.

Little Logan is just exploring.

You know, little Logan is being a dick, and

if you won't shove him in the overhead bin, I will.

Every time a parent takes the kids' side over the teacher's, or asks a child where they want to go to dinner, or doesn't say, be quiet when adults are talking, you are creating the Donald Trumps of tomorrow.

These are the parents who put notes in their kids' lunchbox that say, I love you,

when there's already something in the lunchbox lunchbox that lets kids know you love them food

now I don't know if you remember this song and maybe you'll help me by singing

singing a line from it would you yes yes yes

learning to love

yourself

is the greatest love

of all

Awesome voice, awesome song, bad idea,

bad idea to teach children that there is nothing better than falling madly head over heels, leaving notes on your own windshield,

in love with yourself, and also that anyone who doesn't agree that you are fabulous and perfect in every way is just a hater and they can suck it.

Sound like anyone we know?

Have you noticed that nobody ever does anything better than Donald Trump?

I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me.

I will be

the greatest jobs president that God ever created.

Nobody knows the system better than me.

Nobody would be tougher on ISIS.

than Donald Trump.

Nobody loves the Bible more than I do.

There's nobody bigger or better at the military than I am.

I can be more presidential than anybody.

Jesus.

He's the white Kanye West.

I just want a reporter one time to ask him about humility so I can hear him say, there is nobody better at being humble than me.

Nobody loves the Bible more?

Nice try, Pope Francis, but

unfortunately for you, you're in the same world with Donald Trump.

Unfortunately for all of us,

but kind of predictable.

Trump is the perfect candidate for the country that scores low in math and science, but off the charts in self-esteem.

Yeah, a study of eight developed countries found that U.S.

students were dead last in math skills, but number one in confidence in math skills.

Even though they suck at it.

Yes, we're number one in thinking we're number one.

And when the numbers don't validate that confidence, well, we know who the real culprit is, those stupid numbers.

So we changed them.

In the 1960s at Yale, 10% of all grades were A's.

Now it's 62%.

This is called trophy syndrome, where no one ever loses and everyone gets a prize.

You can run the wrong way on the field and score five goals for the other team and you're still a winner.

Even though you're actually a big fucking loser.

And this isn't just kids.

NBA players give each other high fives when they miss a foul shot.

Oprah gets a big round of applause for losing weight and another one for having the courage to put it back on.

We tell our children they don't have to fix their flaws because it's the world's job to accept everything about them and love it.

Like they say on reality shows, the most important thing is just you doing you.

But what if you is a big asshole?

So

you can vote for Donald Trump if you want, but never think that for him it's about the country.

He doesn't even really want to be president.

He just wants to be called presidents because he is the logical result of 40 years of worshiping at the altar of self-esteem where everything is about you and every kid gets a trophy wife.

All right, that's our show.

I'll I'll be at the Brady in Tulsa, April 23rd, the Peabody in St.

Louis on the 24th, and at the King Center in Melbourne, Florida, May 15th.

I want to thank Bernie Frank, Rick Wilson, Sister Simone Campbell, and Esperanza Spalding, and Michael Ware.

Join us now on Overtime on YouTube.

Thank you, folks.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand.

For more information, log on to HBO.com.