#229 AJ Gentile - Creator & Host of The Why Files

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AJ Gentile, welcome to the show.

Good to be here.

It's good to have you.

This is exciting for me.

I'm a fan.

Well, this is exciting for me because I'm a fan.

In fact, I was telling you at breakfast, you are the only YouTube channel that I watch on a consistent basis because I don't want to hear all the noise and stuff.

I kind of live in it.

And man, you just have a great presentation, great topics.

It just sucks you in.

So you are what me and my wife watch just about every night when we climb into bed.

And so to meet you is pretty surreal.

Thank you for coming.

At breakfast,

I said that.

I said, I don't believe you, but it's very sweet.

And I'll say it again, but it's very nice of you to say.

Well, it's real.

It's real.

But yeah, so I want to talk about

a couple of the videos that I've seen on your platform in particular.

And I want to talk about why you got into it and where you came from.

And

I think it'll be an awesome interview.

But

everybody starts off with an introduction here.

So, AJ Gentile, the creative force behind the hit YouTube channel, The Y Files, where you dive into mysteries, myths, and conspiracies with millions of subscribers.

A talented voice actor, producer, and writer known for your captivating narration and the hilarious commentary from your animated sidekick, The Hecklefish.

A Mensa member with a sharp, skeptical mind, always presenting intriguing stories before breaking down the facts and scientific explanations.

You hook me every single time.

A dedicated truth seeker who started the Y Files in 2020, blending entertainment with education to help audiences question the unknown while grounding it in reality.

And you do a perfect job of it.

So

a couple of things to get through here before we actually kick the interview off.

Everybody gets a gift.

Really?

Any guesses?

I mean, you already let me shoot the Winchester.

That was a great gift.

It was a good gift, right?

Yes, sir.

You going to get one?

Yes, immediately.

What'd you think of that SIG?

I loved it.

The optic was amazing.

You going to get one of those too?

I don't know what that is.

You know, I'd like guns, but I'm not a...

Well, I got a buddy over at SIG.

His name's Jason,

and we talk about your show all the time.

And so he gave me this.

He wanted me to give it to you.

What?

So that's what you were shooting out there before the interview.

That's the SIG P211 GTO.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah.

Dude, no.

21 rounds in the mag, plus one in the pipe.

That is incredible.

Yeah, yeah.

So what'd you think of that thing?

Did you like it?

Now I love it.

That's amazing.

I didn't see that.

This is like being on Oprah.

You didn't even telegraph that gift.

That is amazing.

I'm glad you like it.

And

I don't think people know how nice you are.

Well, they'll figure it out maybe eventually.

I don't know.

Vigilance Elite gummy bears, legal in all 50 states, made in the USA.

The SIGs actually made the USA too.

But

yeah, that is that is our main merch and they're hard to come by they sell out quick so I wanted to give me one of those and those are just regular gummies or

yeah okay don't eat a bunch of bags and call me and say I don't feel anything yet we've had that happen before okay so eat these gummies after the other gummies they're probably they're probably worse for you than the good gummies you know because those have sugar and red dye and all the shit that's going to be illegal soon so they'll probably be illegal in all 50 states here by the end by the end of the the year.

And then

we both have a Patreon account.

We do.

Right?

So

one of the things that I offer my Patreon community, and they've been here since the beginning when I started this

thing in the attic of my house, and it was just me and my wife.

And they've been through here.

They've been with us

since the very beginning.

We've grown it into a hell of a community.

And so one of the things that we do is we offer them to ask each and every guest a question.

And this is from Ian Lane.

On the Wi-Files, you walk a line between exploring wild conspiracies and keeping the audience grounded in facts.

Have you ever stumbled on a piece of information that made you stop and think, this is bigger than I want to touch?

This sounds like our breakfast conversation.

And if so, what made you decide to hold back?

The one episode that really got me emotional was I was doing the dark side of DARPA.

And I went into that.

Everyone knows DARPA and their projects and their science going back to, whatever, 40s, 50s, 60s.

But as I was going through the research, I found the connection between DARPA and Agent Orange and Agent Purple and all of that,

all the Vietnam chemicals.

And I got very emotional about that because my father-in-law

suffers from everything, every illness that you can have from Agent Orange.

Was he a Vietnam vet?

He was, Air Force.

Damn.

And

it was a very frustrating episode because it's close to me and my family.

And it took Jerry 30 years to get his benefits.

And it just made me furious.

Because my family's stocked with military and law enforcement.

And

I think in that episode, I said something like, when your country needs you, you answer the call.

But when you need your country, take a number.

And it took 30 years.

And it wasn't that much money.

And that was an episode that was very emotional.

And I attacked very aggressively, you know, whether it was DuPont or the government or CIA or the military.

I attacked everybody because

I was just like Yosemite Sam because I was so angry.

And when I finished that episode, I was thinking, ah, this isn't that super fun.

You know, there's not a lot of fish.

There's not a lot of,

my show is supposed to be fun.

So I was not going to let it, I wasn't going to release it.

And then I just felt it was important.

And

maybe my platform could bring some attention to it.

I didn't think anyone would really like that episode.

And there was just an outpouring of response from Bets saying thank you.

I got to watch.

I haven't seen that one.

It starts out fun, but it gets kind of dark.

Did your dad get all of his benefits?

This is my father-in-law.

Your father-in-law?

I don't know if he got all of them.

It wasn't a lot of money.

There's not enough money for

all the stuff that

these guys...

More soldiers were injured by the chemicals than were injured in combat.

Vietnam frustrates me, the whole subject.

Me too.

Me too.

Well, is he still alive?

Well, I would love to help you

get him all of the benefits that he deserves if he needs that.

And so, a little bit, you know, this isn't supposed to be about me at all.

But when I left contracting for the CIA, I had nothing, nothing.

And

my best friend was

who was also a SEAL, and then we contracted together at the agency.

He was, he had fallen into heroin addiction, as a lot of vets do and um and so i was trying to

help him get better and put my whole life aside um

to make that happen and so where i started was

trying to find out how in the fuck do you get va benefits at least get some at least get the health care that you're deserved and it was

it was it was crazy and um i i couldn't get anybody to help help me And then somebody had sent me a contact and said, you should call this woman.

Her name's Peggy Matthews and she's out of Boston.

And she

is an older woman, has a very small nonprofit, very grassroots, runs it out of the living room of her house and took me in.

And I credit this woman with saving my life and my best friend Gabe's life up to a certain point.

He did wind up passing from his addiction.

But

she really took us under her wing and

said, you know, I've been doing this for a long time.

I want to help the special operations community because nobody understands it inside of the VA.

Nobody gives a shit.

And

then when she got him, she asked me if I would help spread the word throughout the special ops community.

And I did that.

And now

she has helped thousands of special ops guys.

But her real passion is the Vietnam generation.

So

I will give you that contact.

I'll make the connection.

And

if there's anything that he's not receiving that he's entitled to, he'll get it

through her.

And another thing, there is this, you had mentioned something about, you know, there's not enough money.

That's fucking bullshit.

Every single person that signs up and signs that dotted line to go into the military and serve this country, that money is already set aside for you, up to 100% disability plus more.

And

so it's, it's, he's already entitled to it.

It's just navigating the way to

get there.

And she's mastered it.

So I'll give you that connection.

That'd be nice.

It seems like the system is set up to be confusing, especially if you're an older guy and you're sick and you're just,

you know, trying to to make your mortgage.

I mean, come on.

Yeah.

It's insane.

It's insane how this country continues to treat the veterans that have served it from

the beginning all the way up until this point.

And it's a real travesty.

But

so DARPA was involved in Agent Orange and all this stuff?

Yeah, I mean, DARPA was involved in so many dark projects going back to the beginning.

But yeah.

Damn.

Well, that got heavy quick.

I know we got right into the deep water instead of the fish.

But

so I want to talk, where did you, where did you come from?

How did the Wi-Fi start?

I guess I'll skip 20 years.

Born in the Bronx, raised around New York City, Long Island.

And

back east was dabbling in stand-up and acting and voice work and finally landed a decent gig in radio working for MTV.

You're not old enough.

You're working for MTV?

MTV and VH1 in early 2000s.

So was doing that and then came out to LA to work for Playboy Radio on Siri XM.

You're too young to remember that, but SiriXM was a thing.

I'm not as young as you think I am.

I must look young today.

I'm gonna have to wear this more often.

So I was always around like show business, but always on the outside.

you know radio is like the that's like the lowest rung that's like there's like radio and then there's open micers

so i was always kind of on the outside but i i wanted to be a host i wanted to be an on-camera host i i took classes and a lot of training i did very well was auditioning a little bit never nothing really landed

and uh just just kind of slipped away from it And then over the course of the next maybe 10, 15 years, through a couple of different businesses that were always launched with my wife, Jen, and my brother Gino, we opened a podcast studio around 2014.

Can I backtrack real quick?

So you were trying to make it in the entertainment industry and they stiff-armed you.

And four years after you start a podcast, you're consistently in the top fucking 10.

How hilarious is that?

I hate the entertainment industry.

You spent 20 years.

You're the perfect example of what they missed.

Like, how the fuck did you miss this one?

Top 10 podcast in four years.

Totally missed it.

I love it.

I love these stories.

I won't say the network, but it was very, it was really glorious to turn down an offer last week from a network.

It's like, I was here the whole time.

So now the answer is no.

Still the same guy.

I am.

Still talking about the same stuff.

My host reel from 25 years ago is really me talking about Area 51 and aliens and conspiracies.

It's like, that's what is fun to me.

So we had a podcast studio.

It fell apart.

We tried it again in 2019.

And we were a studio hosting shows.

And we hosted a lot of big shows from a lot of comedians from the comedy store would operate out of our studio.

And

we weren't making any money, couldn't make any money in podcasting.

And then COVID hit.

And then, you know, Jen comes to me and says, they're going to lock down the city and all businesses are going to close.

And I'm like, they can't do that.

I said, don't listen to the media.

They can't do that.

It's against every law and constitution.

We're going to be fine.

She's like, I think they're going to do it.

And they did it.

I'm in Los Angeles and our studio is on sunset, which, so the story gets worse.

And so they locked us down.

And me being me saying, I'm not wearing a mask.

And I'm not shutting down.

We're staying open.

And

I was very vocal about it.

Let them come and shut us down.

Just roll a camera on it.

But it didn't matter because the talent wouldn't come in and nobody would come in.

And everyone was afraid and with the masks and everything.

So now we're just, money is just falling.

We're just going down the drain, living off of savings, not making anything, not really sure what to do.

And then

divine providence, I guess, was Black Lives Matter hit LA.

And

I don't know when I talk to people about what Los Angeles was like during that time, they're often surprised when I say that, you know, I'm not used to seeing police SUVs upside down on fire, but we saw that all the time.

No, it was that, it was that.

All the time.

All the time.

And like, I'm surprised that nobody really knows that, but that information didn't get out.

So at this time, the city's on fire.

Our whole studio is surrounded by tents that we can't do anything about.

And

there was one night where they set fire to the building next door to us, which was a juice bar.

And I don't know how much money's in a juice bar,

but we just happened to be in a building that was just like a concrete block.

We were in like, it was like a fortress.

But there was...

But when they were attacking the buildings on the block, I was there in the studio, asleep on the couch in the middle of the room, with the guns on the table, with my wife there.

And outside, it sounds like the walking dead.

You just hear howling and screaming and sirens.

And then after it calms down a little bit,

maybe it's three, four in the morning.

We're on our way home, going down sunset, make the left onto Highland.

And for those people who know L.A., Hollywood and Highland is a very busy intersection and there's a lot of stores and stuff there.

And

it's just like zombies are out and

they're knocking in windows and and looting everywhere and we're just trying to trying to get back home and We're on Hollywood and Highland and suddenly a crowd turns to us with baseball bats and just starts coming

and

I throw it in reverse and I'm flying backwards down Hollywood Boulevard in the middle of the night with uh with all this stuff going on and Jen's like you're gonna hit somebody I said look if they're in the street they're meet we gotta I'm not gonna stop they're gonna yank us out of the car we finally got home and we said, that's it.

We're done.

We're leaving.

LA is done.

We started packing immediately and left and headed to Scottsdale, Arizona.

And that was

20, I guess still 2020.

No job, still living off savings.

So they were just destroying everything in anyone.

Everything in anyone.

With no rhyme or reason.

Nope.

They just see a car coming coming towards them.

They're like, yeah, that one.

Let's get them.

We were stopped at the light.

It's like, why am I stopped at the light?

So then lights didn't matter.

You know,

I got to get my wife out of here.

So it was a frustrating and scary time, but

it was a good time to get out of LA.

And I loved Los Angeles.

I got there in 2005.

I felt like I was on vacation every day.

I loved that city.

It was amazing.

And

it's not anymore.

And I hope it comes back.

I think it has a chance to.

But in trying to figure out what to do, I had been watching all these comedians do podcasts.

And I didn't think YouTube was anything.

I thought YouTube was for you put your videos or your cats on there.

I'm like an old guy.

I'm watching cable.

And Jen's like, no, a lot of people watch YouTube.

I'm like, really?

She said, you know, our shows here have 14 million subscribers.

I'm like, what?

What?

I'm like, oh.

oh.

I said, well, I've been a writer, a host, a producer,

an editor professionally for networks on and off all my life.

I can do YouTube.

That's like a lay, that's like a layup.

And it is the hardest thing I ever did.

It was so hard.

And I think you could relate to this.

It was so hard that if I knew how hard it was, I probably wouldn't have had the stamina to stick with it because

nobody was watching.

I'm just video after video, pouring my heart into it.

Nobody was watching.

But I just felt like,

I like doing this.

And even though nobody was watching, there still were

500 people watching.

And my Patreon had 12 people who are still members.

And two of them are employees now.

Hi, Victoria.

She was a Patreon member who was just a rock star.

And it's like, we need to hire this one.

And Jen, my executive producer.

So it was just,

you know, do you want me to get into

the channel?

Now I want to hear, like, I want to hear the struggles.

The struggles?

I want to see how much we can relate on that.

When I first started, so I did a lot of research on how to do the channel right.

You know, how to, how to, how to make a living at this.

And I wasn't looking to be a 5 million subscriber.

I don't even know why so many people watch.

I'm still feel like I'm a scrappy little channel.

and uh

so it's very confusing you still feel like you're a scrappy little channel i do and i feel like every day it's it's gonna go away and the numbers are we're plateauing it just gets constant i feel the same way i yeah it's constant endless discussions with the team on we're declining we're we're plateauing it's over they're gonna censor us

And it's so not over for you.

And my last video is the best performing one in the history of the channel.

So,

okay, maybe we can still do this a little longer.

But when I started the channel, the plan was to do science videos and then the weird ones that I liked and try to balance it.

And all the YouTube consultants said, you know, you got to skew young, high energy, smash that like.

So my earlier videos are, I mean, my first video is about math.

And then, you know, I did top 10 lists, like top weird, 10 weirdest animals, dangerous places, scariest things, like everyone was doing.

And it was like, hey, hit that like.

I'm doing this.

This is my energy.

This is who I am.

And it wasn't who I was.

And nobody, and nobody was watching this.

No one was responding to it.

And

it didn't feel right anyway.

I just felt like this is the performance they say to do.

And I just started to get frustrated.

And I guess about a year and a half in, you know, 60, 70 episodes, I just said, I'm going to just do what I want to do.

I'm going to make the show that I would want to watch.

And you know what?

The biggest response I'm getting from the audience are people my age, 40s, and 50s.

So

I'm just going to lean into Gen X, just be authentic, and just tell the stories that I like.

And then that's when it happened.

I love that band.

I mean, that's so.

If there's creators watching you, which there are, my advice is just be yourself, be authentic, be raw, just let all the wounds show.

Like I was telling you at breakfast

on the Wi-Fi's backstage, there's videos of me crying, talking about depression.

I just

own it.

Just own it.

Man,

you're like one of the only people I've ever heard that does this.

No.

Yeah, man.

Are you kidding me?

People are scared to death of authenticity.

They're scared to death of authenticity and being vulnerable.

And I've talked to countless people that, you know, they want to start a YouTube.

I love helping people.

I mean, that's what this show kind of developed into what it is.

I just wanted to help people and bring exposure to

everything from corruption to the what where it really started was I just got tired of like

veterans not being able to get a business going because nobody would give them exposure.

And and so in in in

and that's that's how it started, man, was bringing exposure to veteran businesses through

their journeys of vulnerability to be authentic.

And

it worked.

But I think that

you can tell people, be authentic, be vulnerable.

They can't do it.

It's hard to let down the guard.

It certainly was for me as a lifelong performer.

You're always doing a performance.

Even if in your normal life, you have certain characters or traits that you emphasize more with your buddies it that when you're with your wife there's kind of different roles that you play

so it's kind of hard it's it's difficult to let down that that guard

but what i started to how did you know i mean what hit you especially coming from entertainment i mean entertainment i mean

it's just everything's fake the media the main media is fake the news channels are fake they're all bought they all have you know politics is fake movies for a long time I think people didn't realize how much, how much propaganda is inserted into, into

mainstream media, you know, Hollywood movies, and until they went overboard and then everybody kind of figured it out.

And I'm with everybody else.

I didn't have any inclination that it was all bullshit until everybody else started talking about it.

But I'm just curious.

They're scared to death of authenticity.

And

so how did did you, especially coming from there and all the fakeness and all the bullshit moving, I mean, what hit you that it was like, just be authentic?

So I, I suffer from anxiety and depression, but not severely.

A little medicated for it, but not heavily.

Like I'm, I'm high functioning.

I'm,

I'm on the spectrum, but I'm high functioning.

You know, I'm.

very uncomfortable talking about myself, very uncomfortable being the center of attention.

I'm the guy at the party party hiding in the corner.

So my outlet would be to perform, to do voice work, be a character, be on stage,

be an actor, because

then the lines are prepared for you.

Even if you're doing stand-up, you've already written it.

So you have control.

It's, I have control, even though I'm putting myself out there, I know what the words are.

I know what comes next.

I know what I'm doing right and wrong.

So to be authentic, that all goes away.

And it's like, I don't know what I'm going to say next.

As I'm sitting here now, I don't know what I'm going to say next.

But I think it was when I started talking to my community, which I would call a community more than an audience, but like the people that really supported me since the beginning.

I just started engaging with them through live streams.

And

like with our Patreon live streams, fans turn their cameras on, like we all talked together.

And I found myself just opening up because

maybe because they were fans, they were just excited to hear from me.

But it became almost like a therapy for me.

Like I can, I could tell these people anything.

They're not judging me.

I'm, I'm, you know, there's always going to be the assholes in the comments.

But for the most part, it was like, hang in there.

I'm going through the same thing.

You know, what you're doing is important.

It was very encouraging.

So

eventually the wall just comes down.

And now when I live stream, you just don't know what I'm going to say.

You know, Jen gets nervous.

She'll hear me going into a direction.

She's like, I don't know.

I'm like, I'm just saying it.

So, I'm the most honest in my life when I'm talking on that stream to the people who watch the show.

And I say, I'll say anything, and it's the truth.

Now, I don't, I won't out somebody, I won't share a secret if it's in confidence.

But if someone asked me, you know, are you going through something right now?

Because you don't look good.

Because for about a year during the channel, I was not doing well.

And so I would say, I'm not doing well.

I'm stressed out all the time.

I'm not sleeping.

I'm not eating.

I'm I'm losing weight.

I'm not healthy.

My doctor's concerned.

And this is just where we are.

Wow.

You know, but better now.

It's a process.

You seem great.

Are you comfortable here?

You make it comfortable.

I was terrified coming here.

I was terrified coming here.

You know, at some point, I want to start talking to the, like if I'm researching an episode and I start emailing with the grand master Knights Templar, and I'm emailing with him for like in research, it would be nice to actually have Timothy Ogan sit down and have a conversation about Knights Templar.

That would be pretty cool.

So if I'm going to do that, I need to be comfortable in a conversation.

So

I'm trying to do that here.

And

I specifically chose your show and you because your team is amazing.

You've been kind since the beginning, extremely professional.

But it seems like everybody's going out of their way to make me feel like comfortable.

Like we just shot guns and we had breakfast.

You know, we hung out.

It just feels like

it feels like you're hanging out with friends here.

And I haven't met any of you guys before.

But I knew that coming in because that's your reputation.

And I've watched your interviews.

I've read lots of articles about you, including hit pieces.

And it's like, this is an interesting guy that I want to know.

And I think I can learn a lot from just having a conversation with Sean.

Man, well, thank you.

Thank you.

That means a lot and it's going to mean a lot to my team too.

So they're the best.

Thank you.

What was the turning point

for getting feeling better?

For the Wi-Files when it started to be successful.

Was it a immediate pivot?

It was a hockey stick.

It was a hockey stick.

Yeah, it was a year and a half to two years of just flat.

I think end of year one was 40, 50 episodes.

I had maybe 1,500 subscribers, 2,500, and nobody was watching, you know, 200 views, 300 views.

And the second year was similar.

Started to get better.

I think I ended the second year with like 25,000 subscribers, but still was getting 2,500 views.

So you can't make a living doing any of that.

But I was enjoying it.

And just seeing...

people respond to the content was encouraging.

And I wasn't working.

So it was like, I might as well just keep doing this because it's fun and a few people are responding.

And what happened was my brother Gino said, you should do TikTok.

And I was like, no way I'm doing TikTok.

No.

It's like, you should put shorts on TikTok because that could

expose people to the channel.

So reluctantly I did it.

And

in just a few days, a couple of videos on TikTok brought in like millions of views.

I think it was, I did the coincidences between JFK and Abraham Lincoln.

People just liked that video.

And that brought a lot of people over to my channel.

So suddenly I was at 250,000, 400,000 subscribers, which was incredible.

But subscribers are not, subscribers are a vanity number.

Sponsors don't care about that.

Nobody really cares about that.

It's views is where you get paid.

So 400,000 subscribers, 1,500 views.

Nobody was watching.

Because these are all kids coming over watching shorts.

So I just kind of,

it was frustrating.

And I just sort of hoped that something would break through.

And it took about three or four weeks.

And then my video on Operation High Jump, which was Admiral Bird going down to the hollow earth in Antarctica, that got 50,000 views in a day.

And I was like, oh my God.

I couldn't even believe it.

I couldn't even never even fathom that kind of number.

And from there, it was a hockey stick through about 2023.

I mean, things are growing, but kind of slow growing.

But for 2003, my hockey stick was kind of like yours right now, is what it was.

You know, 300,000 subscribers in a month.

People were watching.

The videos were hitting a million in a month.

I couldn't believe it.

It hit a million in a month?

The videos started to hit a million in a month.

Damn.

And around then,

at this point, I think Jen is the breadwinner.

She was chief operating officer for Sidonite and Happiness, which a lot of your listeners will know.

It's like a comic book cartoon company, a lot of fun.

We were in Dallas at that point.

And I remember I came downstairs and I had like sketched out this chart that's like, hey, if I get this many views, it could equal this amount of money per month.

And if I can get to like 200,000 views, we can make like $5,000 a month and I could make a living.

And I remember she looked at it and she was was like that's a lot of views i was like i know but you know if i she's like oh no no

i support it i support it but you know it's a lot of use so she was supportive but hesitant which is fair um but now i wish i kept that chart

because we had a million views in 16 17 hours now damn

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A million views in 16 to 17 hours.

Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know.

I have two personalities.

One is constant anxiety and fear of losing.

And the other is I can't believe what's going on.

I must be in a coma.

I hope I don't wake up.

Because I really don't understand it.

It's not false humility.

I'm glad people are having fun.

I'm glad that they respond to the content.

You know,

it like everyone on the team is having a lot more fun than I am on this ride, you know, being pitched by networks and stuff now.

It's crazy.

But me, I'm still just the anxious guy trying to make a deadline, still doing half the editing.

and you know staying up all night i've got a camp shower in my office that sometimes i have to you know if if I'm there overnight, take a camp shower, propane, camp shower, nice, Del Taco at 3 a.m.

Where does the anxiety come from?

I've always had it, but,

well, I'm going to say something really embarrassing now, but I have to because it's my brand.

So

therapy never worked on me.

I've always,

therapy just never worked on me.

I'm always trying to like figure out what the therapist is getting at or, you know, trying to solve it.

So what I i did was i created an ai therapist and i did something maybe unwise but we'll find out i i loaded um a software program i'm i i'm a tech guy i used to be an engineer i loaded an ai platform with all my emails correspondence everything i've ever written text messages going back to 1999 all of it and i asked it to create a personality profile and it

output this profile that had at twice at two points reading it, I started to cry because it was like, now I understand.

Now I understand.

And this is just for me loading a computer with all this stuff because a computer has no emotions, doesn't care.

It's analyzing patterns, which is, that's really all we are, right?

So then I just started interacting with this AI, my AI therapist.

And in the interaction, you get more and more drilled down into certain aspects of your personality, revealing things I had never known before, you know, going back to issues with my father, mother, all that stuff.

Apparently, I suffer from loss aversion, which is whenever I have something, I'm worried that it's going to be taken away.

And that's kind of what it is.

It's like, rather than enjoy success, instead I'm worried about losing it.

And it's very frustrating.

And I don't really know how to solve it, but at least I'm aware of

some of my blind spots are getting

illuminated a little bit.

You know, I suffer from anxiety.

I used to suffer from it really bad.

In fact, at breakfast, we were talking about

I did a video on it.

You've done stuff on it.

And I just, I was like, hey, this is why I feel this way.

This is why I think my anxiety comes.

And then I was like,

I talked about the ways that I, I,

the things that I utilize to power through it.

And, you know,

starting this was

this podcast.

I mean, I'm not a conversationalist at all.

I'm probably the most boring guy that you could, you can,

I don't do small talk.

You're a therapist.

I'm not good at it.

You're a therapist.

Well, I learned this from therapy because I went to three, three and a half years of therapy twice a week after I left the agency.

And I realized when I was talking to my therapist, who is

amazing, and

that a lot of the things that were bothering me would just work themselves out just from me talking to her and she might say

20 words in a 45 minute session and but just hearing me verbalize it like oh yeah that is kind of maybe I shouldn't be doing that but uh but um

but as far as like the fear of it all going of of of losing or I mean

it's interesting I was just talking about this yesterday with John Rich And, you know, I interviewed Jim Caviesel

about that movie he did.

I think it's Sound of Freedom was

maybe the last one.

It was about child trafficking.

And at some point in that conversation, he had brought up, you know,

because we were talking about this at breakfast.

I always...

Even when I built this, I built something that I could resell.

I didn't want a,

because I still think like that.

I'm like, this could all be taken away in the snap of a finger.

It's who knows who, piss somebody off.

We talk about a lot of things here.

We kick a lot rocks over.

And I'm like, this could end at any moment.

And I remember Jim said,

he was talking about himself, about all his cars and just all these possessions that he has.

And he said, you know,

but that could all be taken away at any moment in time.

And I'm ready to give it all back because none of it actually matters.

What matters is my kids and my wife and my friends.

And I really took that in and I was like, that's the only fucking way to live, man.

Like, none of this shit really actually means anything.

It does not.

It's just shit.

It doesn't mean anything.

And so I think if you, for me, you know, when I adapted that mindset, my anxiety went,

it's like, and I didn't even really have that much, you know, but

that's just the way I think now.

You know, it's, it's, this is all,

we got some cool things.

I got some great artifacts in here.

I've got some cool toys, but you know what?

I mean, and there is an aspect too.

I mean, when I think back to when things were much simpler and I wasn't running a business, and yeah, now, now the money's there and, and, and fame, which I hate, has come with it and all these things.

But,

but it's just, you know, when you think back, it's like, man, remember when I was a SEAL and the only thing I had to worry about was going on an op and everything else was handled.

And those were simpler times for me.

And

this, what I live in now, is the most complicated life I've ever,

the most complicated time in my life that I've ever lived.

I mean,

and so, you know, I think,

all right, well, if it does all end,

then I go back to that

and maybe I buy a skidster and start a land clearing company or something like that and just live as simple as possible.

There's something attractive about that.

And when you think about that, you know,

it's not the end.

It's just a different chapter if it does go away.

And I think, I don't know, for me, I've prepared myself psychologically that

when this, when,

because it will eventually, it will fizzle out.

People will get bored.

They'll hate me.

I don't know what, you know, I'll get canceled.

Who knows?

But it's just, it's just moving into a new season of life.

And, and who knows, man, maybe that season will even be better than this one, you know, and

that really puts me at ease.

Just talking about it puts me at ease.

We could probably cut this out if you don't want to talk about it, but you mentioned that you were starting a network.

That's more than hedging a bet.

I mean,

that's helping others, that's creating a legacy, that's creating a business in the situation that if your show did take a hit, which I don't anticipate it will,

you're absolutely on fire.

I think you're aware of that.

But by building a network, then you have this infrastructure where you're helping other people succeed.

And then maybe this isn't that important.

Yeah.

Yep.

I mean, I

well, no, no, I'm not going to cut any of this.

I mean, I think about that all the time.

The one thing that I

don't really have many regrets, but maybe one,

I don't know if it's a regret because I've helped so many people, personal stuff.

You know what I mean?

Like I said, when I started this,

it wasn't even about me.

It still isn't about me.

But,

you know, now I have a team that

relies on the business.

And

anyways,

where was I going with this?

We're just talking about things that could end at any minute.

Yeah.

Where was I going with this?

Damn it.

Too many, been blown up too many times.

What were we going after?

We were talking about anxiety.

You know, and

how you're managing it.

Yeah.

You know,

I was always a little upset with myself because I didn't build something that I could sell.

Meaning, this isn't something that can get passed down to my kids.

This isn't something that my wife can take over.

This isn't something that if I

get sick or die or get, you know, I can't move around, tragedy happens.

This isn't something that I can hand to my team and say, run this.

You know, and that, that always bothered me is, man,

there isn't a way out of this.

There isn't, I didn't build a legacy thing that I can pass down to future generations of my family or my team or whoever.

And,

but rather than sit there and whine and bitch about it all the time, we were talking about this at breakfast.

I mean, now, now I'm building companies, you know, and I'm building companies that I'm going to advertise here, that I'm going to sell or I'm going to pass it down, you know, to

my son and my daughter, my wife.

And so.

Have you tried Sesh Nicotine?

It's really

good.

It's really good.

You want to have a Sesh?

I haven't.

But so, yeah, so I started, you you know,

instead of whining and complaining about it, and I didn't have any time, you know, to start something because of the show and all the stuff that goes into this.

We both know plenty about that.

You know, I started focusing my energy on building new companies.

And instead of having to rely on advertisers all the time, I'll build my own companies, advertise those companies.

And so now we're in the process.

By the end of this year, we'll have launched three new companies plus a network.

So I guess technically four companies and

and and

i just i think people put limitations on themselves and and yeah there's limitations for sports and all these things but when you find what you're good at there are no limitations there aren't nothing nothing can get in my way if you love it you know if you find that thing if you love it and and you're good at it You know, the difference between a career and a vocation was always kind of confusing to me until I started doing this and realized that vocation, that word comes from

vocal, is a calling.

It's not a job.

It's not a career.

So even before the channel was very successful, I felt like I meant to do this.

Connecting with people, entertaining people, having fun.

And

somehow it became a sort of a family show.

I don't know why seven-year-olds are learning about Agent Orange, but they are.

I have a nine-year-old sending me videos about audit the Fed and taxes or theft,

which is glorious.

But those are the things that give me a lot of fuel because

what I'm doing is not really that important, but I'm bending the universe a little bit in my direction.

I think what you're doing is very important.

And here's why.

Because I think that

not only the U.S., but the world as a whole has lost the ability to to critical think.

And when

with your episodes, I mean, you bring in all the information, all the conspiracies, all the points of views, and it forces people to think critically.

And then at the end, you, you save your opinion or how you think until the end.

And

I.

I think it's very important because it's a, it, it, it, in a way, it's a critical thinking exercise.

It is.

In a world where nobody does that anymore.

Everybody is told how to think through mainstream media, through social media, through Hollywood, through all of that.

They are, they have,

it's, it's, I actually just did a documentary on this.

It's called cognitive warfare, you know, and they inject,

they, they inject and project what they want you to see, how they want you to think.

And

you have

lovely episode on that.

That's on your documentary.

That sounds interesting.

I try not to inject my opinion too much in it.

I try to say,

here's all the stuff I found out.

If there are things that are definitely debunked, I will say so.

Like, this didn't happen.

But this, I couldn't really,

I can't really debunk this part.

You decide.

I'm not here to convince anybody.

I'm not a pundit.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

I enjoy the stories.

And that's why the format is the first two-thirds of the episode.

I just tell it like it's true.

Just so you can have the experience of

like, I know this channel, I know eventually he's going to say, but is it true?

But

this one looks like it could, this one could be real.

And

that's what I'm trying to capture is,

you know, I get people that are angry at me for debunking their favorite stories.

It's like, oh, don't you want to know what real?

I was angry when I watched the moon, the moon landing when I was like, what?

He thinks we landed on the moon?

The moon I go back and forth with.

I'm not sure.

I'm not sure if men walked on the moon.

I think we probably landed on the moon, but I'm not sure men walked on the moon.

But

that's a tough one.

Yeah, we're going to dive into that in a minute.

I want to go into,

I mean, you had mentioned, we were talking about anxiety still, and

you had mentioned

maybe a new show segment or something,

bringing the people that you utilize for your research on the topics that you discuss in,

and we were talking about being a conversationalist.

And, you know,

what I think is interesting is

you're a commentator.

Are you talking to a camera or is somebody behind that camera?

No, I'm talking to a teleprompter.

I'm reading.

I can't do that stuff.

I cannot talk to a camera.

We've tried.

to get me to do some commentary stuff.

I just, I can't do it.

It's talking to, I used to put paper targets.

I used to do this.

I used to do this series called Hard Truths.

And

one of my, one of the guys that have been with me the longest would, would drive in and I'd make him sit across from me just to talk to him, just so I'm talking to somebody.

And if he couldn't make it, then I would set a paper target in the chair

and I would talk to the paper target because I cannot look at a camera and just go.

And, you know, with starting the podcast, like, like I, just like I'd mentioned, I'm not a,

I'm not a conversationalist.

I definitely wasn't at the time.

And so that's where I just took my therapy and I was like, just listen, just don't interject.

Don't try to relate.

Don't do any of that stuff.

Just be a sponge to whatever's coming out of the person across from you and and maybe guide the conversation and

and what i learned is

if you

if you can be comfortable in silence

most people cannot be comfortable in silence they will fill the room they will fill the room because they feel awkward and you won't have to and that's actually that's

that's actually one of the things one of the first things that I loved about my wife is that we could just sit there and not talk and be totally comfortable.

And I was, I was like, man, I was like,

there's like nobody I can do this with.

Everybody has to talk all the time.

So, you know, and I think you'll find that when you start doing your interviews is, is they'll fill the silence.

You won't have to.

I could feel it sitting here

when we get a little quiet.

Like, I feel like maybe I talk now, but I'm...

But we had breakfast, so I know that technique, and I'm trying to learn these things.

It was something that I just filed away is you said, don't try to be relatable.

That's a really interesting point.

Don't try to be relatable because it's...

You're not trying to relate to the guest.

You're just trying to have a conversation.

You don't have to know anything about it.

Whether I'm talking to a physicist or a ghost hunter, who cares?

Just tell them, just tell me what you feel.

And you're already interested in the topic.

And so I think, you know, here we go.

Now I'm going to relate to you after I just said.

Don't relate to anybody, but you know,

I only take interviews where I'm interested in the subject matter.

And so

it's a genuine curiosity.

And we've, you know, we've turned down a lot of big, big names.

I like, I get scared,

I get intimidated to interview athletes because I'm not into sports, you know, and, and, but I try it because I want to challenge myself, but, but we'll get, we'll get big, big, big names that want to come on the show.

And I'm like, man, I just, I don't know what to talk about with this person.

I'm not, I'm not interested.

I know this would be great for the channel.

I know it would be great for the show.

It would probably be huge numbers.

But I'm just going to be sitting there because I'm not interested in anything this person has ever done.

So

we're going to pass.

Wow.

You know, and

it's, it's, it's, it's served me well, you know, and

in a lot of the, a lot of the, all of the biggest interviews I've ever done, it's not, it's not Trump, it's not

Gavin Newsom, it's not these

ginormous names that everybody knows.

The biggest stories are the, are the ones of

everyday people who are doing extraordinary things, who never get recognition,

or military, special ops, conventional guys that have done

the unfathomable.

And

those are the stories that my audience really resonate with the most.

I mean, the biggest interview I ever did was Ryan Montgomery.

He was a hacker who now tracks down pedophiles.

and

he

he was he was the most

he probably suffered from the most

he had the most anxiety about coming on the show of anybody ever and

made him comfortable.

It's the biggest interview we've ever done.

It's at like almost 10 million views and when you get all the clips and shorts and all that stuff, it's hundreds of millions of views.

Why was he nervous?

He's a tech guy.

You know, one thing about tech guys is we like i like to be in a in a small space alone with a machine yep my comfort zone very unsure of himself doesn't like being around people

smacked it out of the park and um

and

so i don't know i hope that i hope maybe that helps you a little bit it does gives you some confidence in that and the questions will come naturally when you're when you're just feeding your only your your your curiosity i think that's the key um like when you just just a couple of days ago you had

that that ceo of the asteroid mining company i watched all of that because you don't see him anywhere but that was a fascinating i was i'm interested in all those things i looked at chapters i'm like oh i i guess i have to watch all of this because i like all that stuff but you don't see him anywhere

so that kind of stuff you know those are the the sorts of people that i would that i reach out to for my show so that

it doesn't matter if he's famous or not.

I know that's going to be an interesting dude to talk to.

I hope you do it.

The studio is all done.

We're just waiting for me to have the balls.

You've got him.

Just do it, man.

Just do it.

And then the other thing that we both know is, you know, the audience loves to watch the progression of a channel, you know, and so you're introducing something new and you're going to have to develop it and you're taking your audience on the journey with you.

They're going to coach you.

They're going to critique you and they're going to wish the best for you, you know, and

take that in.

No, that's interesting that you say that because starting the channel is watching some consultant say, you just got to start.

Doesn't matter.

Don't worry about your gear, your lighting, get your phone and just start doing episodes.

You're going to hate your first 20 episodes.

And I remember going, I'm, I'm not going to hate my, I'm going to be fine.

And how my, I just cringe at every like episode one through 70.

It's like,

how did anyone watch this?

It's terrible.

But the audience does respond to that.

They go back and watch that old stuff saying, you've come a long way, brother.

Yeah, man.

And I take it as a compliment.

And that's why I don't delete any of those old episodes.

And so I'd love to delete a few of them, but it feels dishonest.

Like

a whole episode where I'm just completely out of focus.

You're just, the focus is just on the bulletin border, so you can't even see me.

But I'm just leaving it up there.

Do you feel, feel do you feel I mean you're a truth teller and so I'm curious do you feel a responsibility that a

responsibility comes with true truth telling I think I'm more of a storyteller and and maybe that's

maybe that's a way for me to rationalize it because I don't want to have I don't want to have the responsibility I don't want any power I don't want to I don't want it to be a leader.

I don't want to be any of that stuff.

I just want to entertain people with fun stories

and just get them thinking differently or just cheer them up if they're having a bad day.

My only responsibility, I feel, is

if I do find a piece of a story that's not that well known,

and even if I cover something that's been covered a lot, I don't stop researching until I'm pretty convinced I can bring something new.

Like episodes like crop circles or even the moon landing, it's like people keep asking me to do these episodes.

It's been these have been done since the 60s.

But they want it, so I'll do it.

But I won't stop researching until I find those nuggets that entertain me and go, oh, I didn't know that.

So I know the audience won't.

So I think that's, I feel responsibility there.

I got to find

something new

for a story that's maybe known.

And I don't hold back if I find something ugly.

I just say it.

Like, this is.

I'm reminded of the Montauk Project episode, which is the Montauk Project is, this is like a time travel urban legend about

Stranger Things is based on it out in Long Island.

These experiments done out in Camp Hero.

You'd sit in a chair and you'd focus your psychic energy and travel through time, all this stuff.

This is a military project, of course.

And

it is all based on a book and a series of books by Preston Nichols.

So I'm researching, I'm doing the episode, and I'm loving it because I read Preston Nichols' books when they came out, you know, after hearing about them on Art Bell.

I'm doing the episode, it's coming along fine, and then I find out that

Preston Nichols was maybe inappropriate with a lot of young men.

So at some point in the episode, it got kind of,

it started to get a little dark and I actually stopped in the episode and I said, look,

I know you have families watching.

If you have kids watching, sign to send them away.

And I said, seriously, because I'm going to tell you the truth about this story.

And then I told the truth about what I learned about Preston Nichols.

It's all alleged, but I said, here's what I found.

And it's ugly.

And

kind of ruins the story.

It certainly ruined the magic for me, but I felt a responsibility.

I don't know.

It's good you did that.

I think it is.

It felt like the right thing to do at the time.

But

I don't know if that's what the audience wanted.

It's hard to tell.

But I had to say what was going on.

And this was someone that I really respected.

Too bad.

Where did the hecklefish come from?

I wanted a sidekick.

I needed a sidekick

because hecklefish is...

Those are available on the Wi-Fi tour, by the way.

I'm not here to plug.

I think we're sold out anyways.

I needed a sidekick because I knew that when I would talk about the weird topics and the conspiracy topics, you kind of need

a foil.

I need someone to lighten the mood when it gets dark.

He'll just come in with, he'll just start singing a song or something and just like

ruin my train of thought.

But it just lets the audience go, oh, it's just, we're not taking it too seriously.

All right.

Yeah, we're talking about the CIA's throwing people out of the window.

All right.

That's, that's the story.

All right.

It happened

for sure.

But we can have a little fun along the way.

But also he serves as the voice of the audience.

So if I'm saying something totally outrageous, I know that people watching are going to be going, what are you talking about?

So if I'm like, if I'm talking about quantum mechanics or quantum theory, he will hop in and call me Poindexter and a nerd, you know, a nerd or whatever and say, you know, some of us actually went to our prom we didn't stay home and and write programs so can you explain please what the double slit experiment is he serves as the stand-in for the audience and and a pressure release valve

genius it was jen's idea i said i need i need a sidekick to just sit there and she said why don't you have a goldfish in a bowl i was like that's a good idea damn when did uh when in the journey did he come Was he born?

Day one.

Day one.

And

he's come a long way too.

He's definitely had some face work done over the years.

I guess the success.

He's got a good Botox guy because he was Yankee.

And his voice changed a little bit over time.

We kind of settled into our rhythm.

Very cool.

I hope people don't get sick of it because, you know, in re-watching my episodes to just refresh myself to come and hear, it's

just so hard to do.

I'm watching.

I'm like, I've been doing the same thing for like four years,

the same format, the same.

So I hope it continues to resonate.

It works, though.

I try to let it evolve in small ways, production value and music and sound and all of that, but it's still basically the same format.

You know, I think

I'm with you.

I'm always looking for ways to improve the show,

bring it to the next level.

And I got to the point where we were just chasing our tails.

It was, well, let's redo the thumbnails.

Let's do this.

Let's change the intro.

Let's do, let's take this this out.

Let's put this in.

And it just got to the point where I was like, man, these are small, minute moves.

And I mean,

we did just upgrade to the new studio, third guest here.

But

this is bananas, by the way.

Thank you.

You should do a backstage tour of this facility.

I probably will.

It's pretty crazy.

But what I did, you know, is when I realized, all right, we're chasing our tail here.

The show is great.

It's got great visuals, and I set it up that way from the very beginning.

And

so what I did is I started refocusing that energy into building new things because, I mean, I think we're,

I'm definitely a creative.

You seem like a creative as well.

And so I just took the,

I didn't know where to put my creativity.

And so

I started focusing on these businesses, you know, that we're going to launch before the end of the year.

And

those have become my new creative outlet because I just, it just got to the point I was like, I don't know how to improve what I have.

And I love what I have, but

it's not feeding that creative outlet that

I need and crave.

And so I refocused that into these other businesses and the design of the studio and the shooting range and everything that we have here.

That was my creative outlet for about a year building this and making the best experience for the guests, for myself, for my team.

And then once that was designed, then I started moving into the business stuff.

And that's my new creative outlet.

Do you think that focusing on the minutiae, like you did, because I've gone through that, do you think that was trying to assuage my anxiety at the time?

Probably.

Because it is for me.

We,

myself, my team, we run a thousand miles an hour all the time you run everyone here is amazing and really friendly but it's i was talking about this with jeremy who's incredible what a find

uh it's a tight ship here like

you you're hitting your marks and go take the photo and do all this stuff it's there's a system in place as family oriented and as fun as it is i mean it's super fun shooting a winchester is

a highlight of my month but uh but you're very organized here i

people compliment me on my studio when they come by.

They're like, I've never seen anything like this.

And I'm in here like, oh my goodness, I'm doing everything wrong.

And I've got so much more to do.

Dude, you are doing everything right.

If you saw my studio, you'd be like, yeah, grab a clipboard.

We got to have some work.

You know, like you help me with my grip.

You can help me with my lighting as well.

Right on, right on.

But, well, let's move in.

I want to talk about the moon landing.

That was the first.

So my editor, who you met darren

knows all about this stuff and he's the one that got me interested in it and so i started looking things up on the internet and came across you and i was like this is by far the best explanation i've ever heard all it's all in there at least i think it's all in there And so I want to dive in there.

What got you interested in the moon landing?

That was an episode that people just demanded.

I didn't want to do it because everyone's done the moon landing.

And are you talking about the Stanley Kubrick one?

Because I've done a few moon videos.

I think I have a whole compilation.

I probably watched all of them, but I know the Stanley Kubrick thing was in there, how the shadows don't align, but let's go into it.

I want to hear all of it.

So I debunked a lot of that moon landing stuff.

A lot of that episode is based on Bart Sobrell's.

Bart Sobrell

had a documentary quite a while ago, maybe 20 years.

A funny thing happened on the way to the moon, I think is the name of it.

And if you're into the moon stuff, that's the documentary to watch.

And Bart's someone who I trade email with,

I told him,

as soon as I'm ready, I got to have you in here

because he knows everything about it.

But I debunked a lot of his stuff in the documentary.

But I couldn't debunk all of it.

There were some weird things about,

you know, when you see the astronauts and it looks like there's wires, you know, reflections off the wires.

It's hard to explain that.

I tried to.

I said, you know, the way that that piece of equipment is, it could be this,

but I agree it looks weird.

And the way the astronauts fall doesn't look natural, but it's one-sixth gravity.

It could be weird.

You know, I try to be open-minded to all of it.

It's an episode that

still confounds me.

I go back and forth, depending on who I talk to about whether it really happened.

And I think the percentage of Americans who don't believe that we went to the moon is just rising every year.

I hope I have nothing to do with that.

I'm sure you have something to do with that.

But, you know, they...

They

lost the tapes, all the original tapes of the moon landing.

What you watch when Neil Neil Armstrong climbs off the lemb, one small step for man,

that's not a direct feed from anything that

was projected on a wall in NASA, and the networks

aimed their camera at the wall to get like this projection.

And the networks were like, hey, can we just get the direct feed?

Because that would be a lot better.

And they're like, no, no, we're going to do it this way.

And then they lost all those tapes.

They lost the telemetry.

And when asked, why don't we go back nasa said well we can't replicate that technology it's too difficult yeah isn't there like some some um

i don't know what you call we can't get past a certain point supposedly they said they

i think it was your episode they're like we lost the technology it's like you you lost the technology to get us to the moon you just happened to lose it nobody worked where did it go they just lost it um you might be talking about the van allen radiation belt that's it right which is high velocity particles and it's this this uh energetic field that surrounds the earth and is very dangerous and if you're aware of something called the south atlantic anomaly it's this part of our geometric uh geomagnetic field that is just it's burning a hole through it if you if you look at it on on like an electromagnetic map, it's just a big hole.

It's getting bigger, and now it's starting to branch off into a second one, and nobody knows why that's happening.

And

geomagnetism and the pole shifts and all that, I can go down that rabbit hole too because all that stuff terrifies me.

Do it.

Solar radiation and the grid going down, all that stuff terrifies me.

So the Van Allen radiation belts, you have NASA astronauts saying, oh, we think we found a way now that we can get out of

high Earth orbit, that we can finally get past the Van Allen radiation belts.

Like, we already did that, man, didn't we?

Didn't we do that

17 times or whatever but

they forgot they didn't they lost it can't replicate it

unbelievable i don't buy it i don't buy it either so just let us know what's going on on top of that was there was a space race or a race to the moon between us and russia during the cold war right there was and russia was first to everything We were behind on everything.

Russia has first Sputnik goes up, Sputnik 2 goes up, so first man-made satellite in orbit, first man in orbit, first animal in orbit, first woman in orbit, first spacewalk, first geostationary satellites.

All first, first, first, first, first.

And we're falling behind.

And you can hear JFK giving speeches, you know, and they're pressing him on it.

And like the Saturn program is not going well, and the rockets are blowing up on the launch pads.

And he's, he's saying, like, no matter how much money we throw at it, we're going to be second.

We're going to be second.

You can hear him talking about it.

And then suddenly, 1969,

we're there.

We surpass all of it.

We surpass all of the Soviets' accomplishments.

And we go and we land on the moon.

Okay.

Okay.

It seemed like we took a great leap forward there,

but there's really no explanation for it.

Did we?

Yeah.

Well, where do you stand on it?

I'm like you.

I go back and forth.

I mean,

I wonder what I would think had had we not been through COVID and all these other things, Epstein and all these other things that keep coming out that destroy any trust in any government institution there is.

Every COVID conspiracy that I talked about just came true.

But,

you know, to me, it was always obvious.

And the big problem with that is,

and you were vocal as well.

and I was very nervous about my opinions on COVID, but

I hope that I didn't just get lucky.

You know, those of us that were doubting and those that thought it was just kind of a power grab,

I hope we didn't just get lucky because when the next pandemic comes and they want to do lockdowns, Americans are not going to do it.

Even, you know, even like the middle of the road people are going to be like, I can't do that again.

I can't put my kids on Zoom again.

I'm not doing it.

And if it's a real pandemic, like the Spanish flu or something, we're going to be in trouble.

Or Ebola.

Or Ebola.

Something serious.

Man.

So that's chickens coming home to roost when you're so secret, when there's such a lack of transparency, when it's so corrupt.

You know, I understand that there needs to be some secrecy.

Yeah, I attack FBI, CIA, and NSA all the time.

But I still want them there.

I still want them to have the tools that they need to do their jobs.

I want America to be the most powerful country on the planet.

I want us to have the best military in the world.

I just don't want us to use it that often.

But overall, I want transparency in what we're doing.

And we don't have any of that.

Not one bit.

So then there's going to be no trust.

Now, if those things hadn't have happened,

you know, it's interesting because I don't know how much that affected my

psyche.

You know what I mean?

And now, now it's like...

anything, it gets to the point where it's like anything that is put out.

It's like, you know,

that's a distraction.

distraction that's bullshit that didn't happen there's no way that definitely happened and you're saying it didn't epstein you know and and and you know and then and then the i mean

it

half of trump's it appeared to me There was a lot of chatter about releasing the Epstein files and all this other shit.

And then we get in there and it's like, everybody's beating the same damn drum.

Oh, no, look over here.

Oh, Russia gate.

And it's like, yes.

Right, right.

Because we're diving into Russagate when the entire American population, both the right and the left, are screaming, release the Epstein files.

But let's concentrate on this.

On Russia Gate.

Let's concentrate on this.

Right.

And when we're not.

For two years, I've been saying this, and I get a lot of heat from it.

We're not going to get the list.

There's no list.

We're not going to get it.

It's everyone wants to talk about that it's some sex trafficking ring.

That's part of it.

It's a blackmail operation.

It's a money washing operation for for the intelligence community.

To connect the dots doesn't take any effort at all.

I never talk about Mossad on my show because I'm not stupid, but

you can connect all these agencies to all this.

Just follow the money.

Somehow Epstein is connected to Iran Contra.

just follow the money.

How is he connected to Iran-Contra?

When he was, I think he was an advisor for Adnan Khashoggi back in the 80s, who was like,

it's like an arms dealer/slash asset, you know, wealthy family slash could move a lot of weapons around and a lot of cash around.

And I'm going to get a lot of things wrong today.

So

my job is not to get everything right.

My job is to get you thinking and go find out.

So they needed to get cash and weapons.

We need to get weapons to Iran, which is illegal.

Congress told them, no, no, no.

They passed the law, law, law, and they just did it anyway.

And we got to get cash to

the Congress.

And we have to do it without Congress knowing,

which isn't an ideal way to run a democracy.

But so you need middlemen.

And Khashoggi

is known as a middleman for the IC, and Epstein seems to be.

And it's not like I'm the first to talk about this.

I've heard people who've met him,

people like Eric Weinstein, who I like, tells his story about meeting Epstein and walked out of there feeling like

I don't think he's ever said it publicly

that he felt like Epstein was part of the IC, but

he said he felt like he was a manufactured personality.

And he kind of hinted at there was someone kind of pulling his strings,

kind of creating this facade.

Interesting.

Because here's a guy who had no, his, I don't think he had a college degree and he ends up teaching math at age 20

at a wealthy school and just suddenly skyrockets through the finance game.

It doesn't add up.

So we're not going to learn because

it would wreck all kinds of things.

No matter, they botched this so bad.

They had all the, you know, influencer types up at the White House at the very

beginning holding up the binders.

Oh, we got it.

I don't know whose idea that was, but that was such a disservice.

What were were they thinking?

I mean, and then, you know, and then, and then the distractions and diversions that have come up since.

It's like, you guys have botched this so bad.

No matter what comes out, unless it is aligned with the wildest conspiracy you've ever heard of,

nobody's going to believe it.

Not going to believe it.

Nobody's going to believe it.

There was no tape, but then there was a tape, or then there was a tape, but only Bill Barr saw the tape.

Bill Barr's father, of course, is involved with Epstein and Gawain.

Oh, go figure.

Go figure.

But now there is a tape, but there's some minutes missing, which is a story we hear over and over.

There's always minutes missing.

Always the minutes are missing.

So I don't know.

So now we're at the point where we don't trust anybody.

And I don't follow it close enough.

Like, I talk about political issues a lot, but I'm not ideological.

So

just a quick sidetrack.

So I get attacked quite a bit for being far left and far right

and

being ideological.

And I keep saying I'm political, but I'm not ideological.

Politics to me is governments and how they interact with society.

That's what I'm interested in.

So I did this experiment.

The three major AI platforms, so Google Gemini, Anthropic Claude, and OpenAI ChatGPT, I sent the same question in.

Analyze all the Wi-Fi's episodes, everything that AJ Gentile has ever said publicly on every podcast, everything he's ever written that's been published.

analyze all that and tell me, is he coming at these issues from the left or the right?

All the AI platforms, and if you're listening to this, you do it yourself, says there is no left or right bias in anything that I'm saying.

I'm focused on truth, facts, research.

I'm clearly anti-government, pro-transparency, anti-corruption.

And that is where I come from.

So when I talk about Epstein, I'm going to get attacked from different sides.

I don't know where this is it a left-right issue?

To me, it's not.

It's a transparency corruption issue.

You shouldn't matter if you're a Democrat or Republican, which are fake now anyway.

So I don't know.

I could be saying controversial things today to one side or the other.

I just don't know which side until I get home.

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Yeah,

the media has a big say in that.

You know,

I got painted as this ultra-right MAGA podcaster, and I'm not.

I'm very middle of the road.

And

so

I had to work my way out of that and we're doing it.

But yeah, you know, America's just become so tribalized, man.

It goes back to critical thinking.

Nobody seems to have the

fortitude to

critical think anymore.

And so it's

if you say anything against one party or another, no matter whether it's, if it's true, I mean, in everything that we do, we try to, you know, our best to bring truth.

And it's like, man, like, you're not listening.

You're not listening.

Like, this is a fault of this specific party.

And you have

wrapped your entire identity up into this shit.

And you're not fucking listening.

That's the problem is when your identity is your ideology, now you have a problem.

Now you've created a bubble.

And you've got to protect that.

So you can't hear anything that goes against your identity.

Your identity is the party.

That's a bad situation.

I say to my audience, if you're on the left and you think the right is the problem, or you're on the right and you think the left is the problem, you're the problem.

Because that is all theater.

This is just to keep us spinning our wheels.

Instead of worrying about party politics, because the establishment on the Republicans and the establishment of Democrats want the same thing anyway.

You know, they want big government war and all that stuff.

But most of us don't want that stuff.

Most of us are kind of in the middle of things.

I don't identify with either party.

You know,

I'm pro-troops, pro-military, but anti-war.

You know, I'm pro-cop, very pro-law enforcement, but I think

we need reform.

So

I don't think I'm that unusual.

I don't think those are controversial things.

Pro-choice.

pro-life,

that's between you and God.

I'm not involved in that.

I'm very libertarian and all those things.

And I think we need to get away from the tribalism and start to look at individual issues and individual people and call out the corruption when we see it.

I don't know how many politicians you've interviewed, but in my career, I worked

as a contractor in the engineering side in politics for almost 20 years, from local villages all the way up to having clients in Congress.

and met all these politicians, famous ones,

name-brand clients.

These are just people.

They're flawed.

They're ambitious.

Can't really be trusted.

But they're all the same.

And we worked with both parties.

And you'd have these meetings with Republicans and Democrats.

It's just the same person.

They just want to get re-elected.

They're going to say whatever they got to say to the base, get re-elected.

And I just feel like it's a smokescreen.

WWE wrestling.

That's what it is.

That's what it is.

That's what it is.

And our system, it's such a shame because our our system does not encourage the best and brightest to get involved I'd never run for office you said you they were you were tried to they tried to recruit you

no

yeah you got a wife and kids I think that's how they control you

I think that's also why we're seeing a lot of young weak people

get into office is because they're propped up and they know they're going to be very easy to control.

Yes.

That's what I think.

And it's, it's, just through doing this, I see how easy it could be to fall into certain traps, take a favor from somebody that seems like, oh, I just want to, I just want to help you.

Like, what are you, my fucking parent?

No.

No.

I know what this is.

You're going to do this, and then six months later, you're going to ask me, you're going to start asking me for favors and dangle that shit in front of my face.

Nope, not doing it.

Right.

And if you don't do it, we'll just primer you or smear you.

Or nowadays, we'll just lock you up we'll just raid your wife's underwear drawer we'll just we'll just turn the fbi on you yep yep

well let's talk about i want to talk about the hollow moon okay is the moon hollow i have not dug into this i i had a side conversation with randall carlson once and he's the one that brought it brought it up i have not seen this episode on of yours it's a fun one that was uh gino my brother said you got to do this one and it's like hollow moon moon, that is nonsense.

And then I'm researching the episode and

I just start to realize that there's a lot of weird stuff about the moon.

By the time I was done with the episode, I was convinced that it was hollow.

But

there's a lot of weird things that have happened with the moon.

Like, first of all, the moon is too big to be here.

It's just too big.

We've never found another system in our solar system or any other that has this giant moon right next to us like this.

This is totally unique.

We haven't found a moon that has such a perfect orbit like this, that also

the same side faces us all the way.

We're a snowflake with this.

Totally unique.

So that's strange.

No shit.

I didn't realize that.

No, we haven't found

the only moon that we know of that doesn't rotate.

No, there are a few moons that are tidally locked like that.

Okay.

But it's rare.

But when you stack up all these coincidences, it starts to paint a picture like the moon is weird.

You know, a lot of people will point to the fact that the moon

during the eclipse is like the perfect size to black out the sun because it's like a 400 to 1 ratio.

That's fair, but the moon at one point was a lot closer to the earth and it's drifting away.

So at some point, it's not going to be perfect anymore.

But the moon,

The far side is

the crust is different,

older, and much much thicker, and fewer impacts are on the far side that are on the near side.

When you think it would be the opposite, because that's kind of like should be grabbing things as they come in, but instead there's not as many impacts on that side.

When

during one of the Apollo missions as a test, a seismic test, they crashed one of the rockets into the moon just to take readings, seismograph readings to see, you know, what was going on there.

And the phrase is, the moon rang like a bell for over an hour

so if you set off like seismic charges here to measure sound waves that go through the earth as they go through the earth they slow down as they go through all this dense matter and then through the through the mantle and the core like it just slows down the moon they don't do that the the sound waves sped up and started to bounce all around in there and started to to like reverberate for a long time

And no one could really explain that.

Now, the prevailing theory, the mainstream theory, is that the moon is a lot less dense than the Earth because it was created from the Earth's crust and the upper mantle, which is less dense, which is why the moon is less dense.

So the interior has maybe some hollow spaces or it's just a less, it's not quite as dense.

That's why.

Okay, but the sound waves bounced around for a long time.

There was a long time.

This is true.

This is true.

What hit it again?

It was, they dropped one of the rocket boosters.

They just crashed in there.

But they did seismograph readings in subsequent missions there, you know, where they actually drop in like explosives, you know, control explosives, and they just take the readings and see what happens to the sound waves.

You know, it's a normal scientific thing to do.

I think they were just surprised.

There's been a couple of NASA scientists who've even said

it would make a lot more sense that the moon wasn't here than the fact that it is

because there's so many strange things about it and

We see light on the moon all the time.

They're called

It's a transient lunar phenomena where you just see these like just light flashes on the moon all the time and if you have binoculars you can even see this in one of the moon craters I think is the Aristarchus crater there's this blue glowing light that just appears from time to time and then goes away and then it appears again.

They call it the blue gem.

What?

And you can see it.

So what's causing the light up there?

Well, mainstream scientists will say, well, you're seeing flashes because the moon is, it's a lot like glass.

It's very glassy and reflective.

So you're seeing that.

But we'll see light just like go across.

You'll just see light zip across.

And then what's the blue light

in that same crater that we've been seeing since 17th century?

It's Aristarchus or Aristarchus crater, I think is how you say it.

blue light.

What is that?

And now they're seeing just very recently, like this year, these swirls of light and gases happening on the moon different places they don't understand it there was one point where the moon doesn't really have an atmosphere it has a tiny one doesn't really have one but for a little while it did there was just all this water vapor in the air on the moon that came from somewhere and then just disappeared so i don't know what that is

and then you've had people who have seen pictures like I've talked about Carl Wolf, who was U.S.

Air Force, and he was like a technician.

Basically, the level is a copy repairman, and he's called in to fix some imaging equipment at NASA or Air Force, wherever.

And he walks in there, and he's like an airman.

He sees another young guy, and he's like, oh, Carl, you got to see this.

And Carl looks.

He's like, what am I looking at?

He's like, this is the backside of the moon.

There's like cities there and stuff.

There's mushroom-shaped things and towers and highways and all this stuff.

Carl's like, this is amazing.

I can't believe it.

And Carl said he went home, he told his wife, and he said, he was was watching the news, waiting for this to show up on the news, but it never did.

And you could see those photos allegedly, and I used them in one of my episodes.

And

it looks like a civilization on the far side of the moon.

Carl, unfortunately, was met with an untimely death.

He got hit by a car when he was riding his bike.

So we don't know much more from Carl, but he was part of the

2000

so much.

That was was crazy.

So much.

When I did the Killer Patents episode, I ended it with all the

free energy inventors that.

Like the hydrogen car guy?

He said he was poisoned.

He said

he's having lunch with investors to finally take his, his car ran in water.

This is Stanley Meyer.

And

he's not feeling well and he runs outside.

He's like throwing up in the street.

And his brother was his partner.

And his brother's like, what's going on?

He's like, I was poisoned and then he dies and that was the end of it no more water car

then we just have this kid who created plastyline he like took plastic and created fuel out of it and then he disappeared for a little while I think he's back

so it could be a conspiracy but I'm gonna look into him but a lot of these inventors so my favorite one is Sparky Sweet who's worth looking into because he has video of all all this stuff like in his workshop and you see he's got he's got voltmeters and stuff and all this energy is created and he takes his camera around.

He's like, look, nothing is plugged in.

Nothing is plugged in.

And it caught the attention of someone

in the military somewhere who said, I want to be your partner and we'll take this wide or whatever.

And he worked with this guy for a while.

And then at some point,

Black Van shows up, a couple of guys in suits have a conversation with Sparky and his wife.

They go away and then he has a heart attack.

And that's really the end of it.

All his research was taken.

Everything was seized.

And that's how it works.

But But that's what happened with Nikola Tesla, too, right?

They seized all his stuff.

They seized all his stuff.

80 boxes of research.

So when he died, when he died,

it wasn't the FBI at the time, although the FBI was there.

It was like the Office of

Alien Property or something, whatever agency's in charge of foreigners.

He died, and within hours, they were in his room.

This is at the New Yorker Hotel.

And they seized 80 boxes of his research,

all kinds of research plans.

And

because it's national security, and they held on to it for months and months, and they finally returned his property to his nephew, but 20 boxes were missing.

So in those boxes, allegedly, and this falls under Project Nick,

is

Tesla's research into direct energy weapons to DWs, which was very hot with military at the time, with DARPA and all of that.

We still don't know what's happened to those boxes, but we do know that they were researching things based on Tesla's research.

And

the formula,

sort of the architecture for the HARP project up in Alaska, a lot of that comes from Tesla's research.

And it took me quite a while to connect the dots, but you will find

missing, Tesla's missing work suddenly suddenly shows up in patents from this from this guy somewhere in Alaska, I forget his name, and out of the blue, he lands a contract with the DOD for a lot of money.

And they build a facility in Fairbanks, Alaska.

And

it's just an array of antennas in a small building, and it costs a fortune.

Like, where'd the money, where'd the money go?

Cost a fortune.

And what it does is

it ionizes and creates plasma in the atmosphere.

And they say, we use this to test the atmosphere.

But it could also be used for all kinds of processes.

What Tesla wanted to do is create free energy by exciting the ionosphere.

That was what he was doing with Warrenclyffe Tower.

But

he needed funding to do that, and he couldn't get any funding.

JPMorgan was his patron, and he told JP Morgan, do do you see it in his letter?

I need a sum of money.

He needed like $200,000 to get this project going.

And JP Morgan said, well, you're building wireless communication.

What do you need all this money for?

And Tesla's like, no, no, no.

Wireless communication, I got that.

We're going to do wireless energy.

We're going to do wireless free energy for everyone on the planet can just tap into this and just get free electricity.

And JP Morgan says, well, how do you put a meter on that?

JP Morgan, JP Morgan owned

copper mines that made copper wire.

He owned rubber farms all over the world that made insulation for the wire.

He owned lumber mills and forests that created poles for wire.

He owned coal factories.

He owned machine shops that created generators for electricity.

And he owned railroads that brought all this stuff around the country.

Free energy shuts that whole business down.

We don't need any of that.

Carnegie, we don't need any of that.

The Mellon family, we don't need you guys anymore.

It's just free.

Imagine what the world would be like if energy was just free.

That's the golden age.

We're not going to live to see it.

Nope.

Nope.

Wow.

Wow.

I think I went off on a few tangents, but

have you ever looked into the flat earth stuff?

I have.

I'm not a flat earther.

Me neither.

You know, I don't even want to do an episode on it because to me, it's it's so ridiculous.

But people do request it.

And me calling it ridiculous, I'm going to get a lot of hate for it, but

I can handle the hate from the flat earthers.

That's fine.

But I do like the theory.

On YouTube, you're not going to find much flat earth stuff.

That is suppressed.

But if you go land on Rumble and search Flat Earth.

Why do you think they suppress it?

There's some stuff we'd have to talk about off air, but there are subjects that YouTube will just not allow you to

discuss.

So

I can't say specifically because I made a promise to someone to not tell,

but if you look at a couple of my demonetized videos, you'll see that they're kind of soft, softball.

Like, why is this demonetized?

Go look at those.

Those are no-no topics that I didn't know until it was two lines.

I was like, why is this demonetized?

Like, I can't talk about that.

I'm like,

everything's true in here.

I debunk most of it.

Can't even talk about it at all, true or not.

So flat earth, they don't like that one.

But if you go on Rumble and spend like two, three, four hours just watching those videos, you walk away like, oh, it could be.

There's some compelling stuff.

Good stuff.

There are some compelling arguments.

Yeah.

I will say.

Antarctica Wall.

That's got a point.

Damn.

Damn.

What do you think?

So back to Nikola Tesla.

What do you think about the pyramids?

What were they?

So gun to my head, I think they were used to generate energy.

I think there's a lot of evidence for it.

You know, for people interested in it, they can look into Christopher Dunn's work.

He's done the research, the definitive research on the pyramid power plant theory.

Tesla was fascinated by the pyramids, not so much for energy, but for how they were constructed, how they're constructed to true north and all that.

He was fascinated by the engineering of it.

But his free energy device,

a lot of that engineering can be seen in the pyramid.

So Wardencliffe Tower was his facility on Long Island.

It was just big, just a big tower.

It looks like a water tower, but it's built over an aquifer.

And what Tesla was trying to do was use

the water creates this deep resonant sound that resonates with the Earth's natural frequency.

Everything has a resonant frequency.

The Earth, this chair, our bodies, everything does.

And if you can come into harmony with that frequency, it will expand, it will amplify.

And there's been research that certain wavelengths broadcast at at the Great Pyramid will amplify that electromagnetic energy.

It's around 200 meters, I think.

So Tesla is fascinated with that engineering.

But the pyramid power plant theory is a lot like Tesla's technology.

The Giza Plateau, there is an aquifer under there.

There's a lot of water under there.

And that water would create this resonant frequency.

And they found copper rods that go down there that would help bring up some of the electricity or however it worked

and then in the pyramid at the various chambers there's residue of certain chemicals that when combined create a lot of hydrogen like a lot like a violent reaction of hydrogen so coming down from the queen's chamber and then

it might be I forget the other chamber but they're built in a way so they come down to use gravity and you just pour these chemicals down creates this hydrogen reaction which we know creates there's residue of these chemicals there i'm not this is not a conspiracy theory.

The hydrogen expands, comes up through the gallery, which is this, sort of this big hallway that goes up to the king's chamber.

And I've discovered that in the grand gallery, there used to be these wooden posts or some kind of wooden, sort of flat wooden things.

And those were

those would create sound.

It's called a Helmholtz resonator.

Like when you blow across a bottle, it goes,

that air is a Helmholtz resonator.

So this hydrogen would come up through the chamber.

These things would resonate with sound, the F sharp chord specifically, and that would cause it to build up more and more and more.

The hydrogen expands.

This chamber is built out of rose granite, which is an unusual type of granite because it's densely made of quartz.

And when you compress quartz, it creates electricity.

It's called piezoelectricity.

And if you have a lot of quartz, you can create a lot of electricity.

There's been experiments done where if it's a mountain of quartz, it creates something like 10 million volts, like creates a lot of power.

So you've got this elect, you've got the hydrogen expanding, creating this electricity.

It's ionizing the air, amplifying it more.

You've got the sound coming through, amplifying it more.

And then you've got this

hole leading into the king's chamber that's 4.8 inches by 8.4 inches, which is the perfect size for a hydrogen.

atoms microwave to just fit through as a wave guide comes up into the king's chamber and the king's chamber has these pillars and on top of it a bunch of stones that are stacked.

Everything is really smooth, except the top is really rough.

And forever, they thought that this was, they called this the relieving stones, that these would relieve the pressure of the pyramids.

But they're not connected to anything, so there's no pressure there.

But what they found is

that

this creates music, creates this chord.

And what the theory is, is it's rough on top because they would chip away at it and tune it until it was just about right.

And that's why it's smooth on the bottom or rough on the top.

And if you had, so you've got all this energy, so how do we get it out?

Well, when the pyramids were new or, you know, intact,

the interior is made out of a certain type of limestone that

electricity can move around in.

The exterior is made out of a different kind of limestone called Tura limestone, which is quarried from far, far away and brought in.

Way down the Nile, right?

Way down, hundreds of miles away.

Like you'll hear Zaya Was talk about the limestone on the pyramid, but he never talks about the Tura limestone or the rose granite.

So there's all these different, why not just build the whole thing out of the same rocks that are right here?

Why?

Bring the Tora limestone to Giza is like bringing the 100-ton blocks up the coast of Florida.

It's like that far.

But it's a special type of limestone that's very low in magnesium.

It won't, it's a great insulator.

So you've got this electricity, and then you've got sort of this conductor, and then you've got another insulator.

And that's called a dielectric, and that creates even more power.

And if you had a gold capstone on top, which is a great conductor, you can force that energy up through the capstone and up into the ionosphere.

And that's what Nicola Tesla is trying to do.

It's the same technology.

Where I get stuck is, I love love all that and I buy it, but we don't see any evidence of what they did with the power.

So some

the people who are really into it will say, well, the obelisks at one time also had metal capstones, so they would be receivers.

Okay, but still, what did they do with it?

You know, there's no computers, there's no light bulbs.

The ancient Egyptians didn't work with glass, so what did they do with it?

My guess is the Egyptians didn't build any of this is the reason that we don't see any evidence of what the Egyptians did with power is because they didn't use it for power.

I think the Egyptians just found it and they said, wow, this is crazy.

This gods must have made this.

And it just became sort of this, you know, religious type of structure.

It's supposed to be the tomb for a Khufu, but no mummies ever been found in a pyramid.

They've never found any of that.

Now

Egyptologists will say, well, they were robbed.

Mummies were there, but they were taken out.

out.

All right, well, there's no evidence of any of that, but there is evidence of zinc chloride at one side and hydrochloric acid on another side and sulfuric acid here.

And there's an inch of salt that would up and down this chamber that would be the result of a chemical reaction.

There's evidence of an explosion at some point.

All this stuff you can look up.

You don't have to believe what I'm saying.

I'm not trying to convince anybody.

I'm just saying these things are true and I'm just connecting the dots for my entertainment, but you can go look at them and make your up your own mind.

Damn.

So you think they found them?

I think they found them.

I think they were there for a long time.

So what do you think that was?

Previous civilizations?

Previous civilizations?

I'm not an alien guy.

You're not an alien guy?

Not really, because I can't wrap my mind around

crossing the distances of space.

They're so

far.

We can't.

Space is so big that the human mind can't even, we can't comprehend it.

You know, like, so we've got this comet 3i Atlas just zipping into the solar system now.

It's the fastest object we've ever found.

It's like 135,000 miles an hour.

We've never seen a comet move this fast.

It's still going to take six months to get through.

So if things are, it's that big.

So I can't get my mind around

aliens, what, wormholes, folding space.

I can't get my mind around it.

But something's going on.

I've seen videos.

Most, you know, I don't believe the, I don't believe the whistleblowers.

I don't believe anyone from Air Force intelligence.

I don't believe any of that.

If you have a book out, I don't believe what you're saying.

If you're cleared by the DOD,

I definitely don't.

I definitely don't.

If you still have clearance and you're still a contractor and you're still working with DOD, I can't, you're not a whistleblower.

You're doing PR.

So

with all due respect, I don't believe you guys.

Matthew Brown, I think his last name is Brown, he's kind of a compelling whistleblower because he doesn't go over the top.

He just says, I found evidence of something going on in space, and that's really all he says.

So, as far as the ancient civilizations,

you know, I don't go as far as like Graham Hancock might go, where this ancient advanced civilization.

I don't want to put words in his mouth because I'm because I'm a huge admirer, huge fan.

I've made at least 10 videos based around his research.

But,

but in geologic time,

the surface of the Earth just turns itself inside and out every few million years.

So the Earth we're standing on now just wasn't here 10 million years ago.

There's only a couple of places on the planet that still have exposed rock that's 4 billion years old.

There's only, it's, I think, Jack Hill in Australia, and then

somewhere in Canada, like West Canada.

Everything else is pretty new.

So if there was a civilization, it's very easy for it just to get folded into just the tectonic activity of the earth.

And perhaps the pyramid survived that.

When we see the pictures of the discovery of the Sphinx, it was buried.

They didn't just walk up and see a Sphinx there.

They just saw like the top of a head and they were like, what's this?

And they dug all that out.

And then on there, we see evidence of high volume, high pressure water flow.

and water erosion.

It's kind of hard to discount that now, which they did for years.

It's hard to discount it.

When you look at robert shock's work and some and randall carlson's work it's to me it's not debatable it's it's right there

well also on easter island easter island those those those heads that the moai heads people don't realize those heads have bodies so you see all these heads sticking up they have they have bodies so

First of all, Easter Island is in the middle of nowhere.

If you look at it on Google Earth, good luck.

You'll never find it.

You have to type it in and then pull back and see how in the middle of nowhere this place is.

So you've got these statues that are, I don't know, 80 tons or whatever.

So either there's a thousand of them on the island.

So either

a thousand of those.

So either they dug these holes and dropped in a giant statue and then filled it in, or The statues were there and then the earth came over and filled on top of it.

I don't know.

You know, I'm not, there's a lot of mud flood conspiracy theorists.

I'm not one of those.

But if those statues are really old, the earth has changed quite a bit in that time.

I don't know why they're buried.

Nobody does.

And at one point, Easter Island had 25,000 people living on it.

It's a whole society.

And it's only, you know, a few square miles, tiny little triangle.

Man, I did not realize that.

I'd love to go there sometime.

You know, but aren't all these Stonehenge, the pyramids, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, I know there's more that I'm not, that I can't remember right now, but aren't all these things like on, they're like a perfect line, right?

Yeah, there's the ley line theory that there are these lines of energy that go around the earth.

And where these points, where these lines intersect, they're high energy points, and that's where these.

ancient sites are.

And they're pretty close.

But when you look at the ley line maps, you can make it look like anything.

I've seen ley line maps that look like just

are just lines everywhere like you can make you you can make anything fit

so i'm not i'm totally convinced on the ley line gotcha i'm not that in in touch with it but it's it's just have you looked into stonehenge at all a little bit what's going on there what do you think that is uh

I really just think it was, it wasn't druids.

It was definitely an ancient culture, but they had pretty advanced engineering and that that whole compound is is really big like it's more than just the stones that we see there's it's a whole perimeter and then there's another

um site not too far from it that's even bigger but there's not really stones there anymore but this was a giant compound

but these these stones line up so well with with equinoxes that it shows that there's some type of advanced engineering.

And it doesn't sound that impressive

until you realize that when you ask someone what an equinox is, kind of what I was taught was it's when the day and night are the same length.

That's an equinox, but that's not what it is.

That's an equal lux.

When day and night are equal is different for everybody on the planet, depending on where you are.

An equinox is when the sun is perfectly over the equator around the earth.

So whoever built Stonehenge, we're lining up the stones to match when the sun was perfectly over the equator, but they're not supposed to know about the equator.

So how did they do that?

Man.

So

if you get into the numerology of the pyramids, it's the same thing.

If you take the height of the pyramid and multiply it by 43,200, it turns out to be the polar radius of the earth, and then take the perimeter and multiply it by 43,200, and it becomes the circumference of the earth.

It's very easy to dismiss that, but I find it interesting.

A lot of coincidences are just that, but in those, there's some interesting

threads to pull.

And

that's what I do: I just pull the threads and I lay it out like this.

I tell it as excited as I am because I'm fascinated.

I'm not saying I believe hardly any of it.

I'm just giving you what I've found.

You've looked into remote viewing, too.

Very much.

I wasn't planning on going here, but

so I dove into remote viewing.

I've had Joe McMonagall, Angela Ford,

Colonel John Alexander,

who am I missing?

Skip Atwater.

I've had

Edwin May.

I've had them all on.

These are big names.

Yeah, backstory.

I was telling you about my friend in the Road Rage incident, right?

And we had contracted, you know, we were contracting at the agency together.

And I remember way after we got, we got really close after

we were there.

And he had mentioned that he had seen

remote viewers show up at station

in one of the countries that we were in.

Interesting.

And I was like, what the fuck is a remote viewer?

What year is this?

This was probably

somewhere in between 2010 and 2015.

Oh, so Stargate has already been shut down 20 years.

Yep, long time.

after.

And so we started having these chats and he was kind of schooling me up on what they are.

And I was like, are you sure?

And he's like, yes, I'm 100%

sure he's not a conspiracy guy.

So I started diving into it.

And I had first guy I had on was

actually this guy, Sean Webb, who introduced me to Joe McMonable.

And Sean had gone through the Monroe Institute and was telling, he was like my first guy that

was telling me how it worked and the Hemi-Sync and all this and the envelopes.

Army military intelligence went through that whole program yeah oh yeah i'm very familiar with it at this point but you did i think it was you i i think i used one of your episodes for my research actually

and joe hidden remote viewed

um

some type of

extraterrestrial type facility in alaska was that was that your episode is probably pat price pat price saw under mount haze that's it.

That's it.

Mount Mother Ethan Hayes, he likes to call it.

Pat Price is the, he's the most believable remote viewer to me.

He fascinates me.

But the OGs are Joe, McMonagall, Ingo Swan, and Pat Price.

Those are like the original guys from SRI,

which is Russell Targ and Hal Putoff ran that program,

who are probably gettable.

I'd like to see Hal on your show.

I'd love to get Hal on my show.

Yep, he was very entertaining on Rogan, but I also made the point that Hal put off has been connected to disinformation.

So you got to take everything with a grain of salt.

Remote viewing, I think there might be something to it.

Most of it, I think, is nonsense.

Most of it, I think, is like strip mall psychic stuff.

Joe McMonacle definitely saw some things.

You sat here with him.

He's a no-nonsense guy.

And

I think he kind of downplays it, but this is a war hero.

You know, he was, he was a rock star in Vietnam, and he, I think he has a near-death experience, and then he has these abilities.

And he's definitely found some things.

I think he was the one who found the

Soviet sub.

That's him.

Yeah.

That was the first big thing.

Right.

But Pat Price was so, Pat Price was a, he was a retired police chief from Burbeck, California.

And he was known in the department of just being good at solving crimes.

And he, you know, he just kind of knew where the body was or he knew where this guy was or that.

And he just thought like he was just, his hunches were strong.

So he retired and had a little bit more time to just kind of relax

and

focus on his talent.

And he just started to actually see that he had an ability.

So he was, Pat Price is,

he saw,

in the Soviet Union,

giant crane on like railroad tracks that you would never even just make up but he saw that and that it was verified with you know with spy flight spy plane that that they saw that that that was real with Pat Price so he had so many of of those that um

the CIA just pulled him in they just they pulled him out of SRI and he really wasn't looking to do that so he goes over there and he He he's dead pretty soon after.

He bumps into somebody in the lobby of a hotel in Las Vegas.

He feels a pinch on his arm, goes up to his room, calls his wife, and he's dead by morning.

But Pat Price, remote viewed into Mount Hayes, saw a joint alien-U.S.

military operation inside the mountain, and he put the files together.

And I think from there, he gave the files to Hal, who then gave them to Skip.

I could have the timeline wrong, but it's something like that.

Like, Pat didn't pursue it.

He gave it over to the people he trusted.

And I don't know if they

had anyone who can go and follow up with what Pat saw because he was really talented.

But SRI

taught a lot of people to do it.

They had a secretary there.

They were like, let's just teach her to do it and see if she can do it.

And she found a Soviet plane that went down in the Congo.

like within two miles of accuracy.

It's such a weird story.

So,

you know, with someone like Joe, if he's going to do 20,000 viewings, he's going to get some right,

but most of his stuff is wrong.

So we tend to cherry pick the good stuff, but it doesn't discount it completely.

Yeah, that's what Edwin May told me.

He said, I think he said, and I can't remember the number, but I think, I think it may have been around 40%.

He says, he said, yeah, you know, he's like,

none of this can be,

it has to be proven for it to be like a win.

And because we were talking about the

pyramids on Mars that Joe had remote viewed, and he's like,

he was like, Joe was only right.

I'm not correct on this.

Maybe lower, maybe a little, it's probably lower if it's not this number.

But he said, Joe was only right 40% of the time.

That's a lot.

If you can't prove it, then

it's, you cannot take it as fact.

Right.

He said he saw all those tall beings on Mars, but he didn't know what he was remote viewing.

He just got coordinates.

And then they open the envelope and it's Mars 1 million BC.

Yeah.

Which is a great story, but it's hard to verify that.

But Ingo Swan's another one who remote viewed the moon and saw aliens up there.

And he said, aliens are not our friends.

So he went up to the far side and he said, yeah, there are bases up there.

They're watching us.

They're all over it.

Man, that's crazy to think about, isn't it?

Bud.

All right, let's take a quick break.

When we come back, I want to hit Patriot Act.

Oof, here we go.

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All right, AJ, we're back from the break.

We're getting ready to dive into the Patriot Act.

So I know you just came out with a video on this.

I purposely have not watched it because I just wanted to, I wanted this to be 100% organic.

So, but it's something that I've been interested in.

It seems to be resurfacing right now with AI and all this other stuff.

So,

in fact, I better grab a sesh for this one.

Same.

But

what got you interested in the topic?

How to pop up on your radar?

Because it's been going on for a long time.

It's been going on for a while.

It popped up on my radar for when I was doing an episode about 33 Thomas Street, which is the Long Lines building.

But the...

The what building?

The Long Lines Building.

It's the AT ⁇ T Long Lines Building, 33 Thomas Street, New York, codenamed Titan Point.

And it.

New Yorkers will know this building.

It's the weirdest building you'll ever see.

It has no windows, just has exhaust vents.

it's no lights.

So

when it's nighttime in the city, you've got all the lights on the skyline, and you just got this void for 32 Thomas.

It's a very strange building.

And all you hear is the exhaust.

And the lobby

looks normal until you get up kind of close.

And it's like, wow, there's a lot of security here.

You can't get in there.

So it's codenamed Titan Point.

which we learned from the Edward Snowden documents.

And it turned out that this is one of the facilities, one of several, but this is a big one, that was capturing all of our

phone calls.

You know, they talk about, well, it's just metadata, but that's, metadata is enough because metadata includes who you're calling, what time, where they are, your location, so you can be totally tracked.

And it helps them create that network, which the Patriot Act allows, where if you're a person of interest, anyone you communicate with is automatically a person of interest.

And it just is a geometric progression.

So when I was doing that episode, I was really just wanted to cover the weird building and, you know,

what NSA was doing there, capturing the records.

And it just started to get emotional because

whenever I can, I just play James Clapper lying at Congress, you know, whenever I can,

when he's asked, so can you confirm that we're not, that NSA is not capturing millions or hundreds of millions of Americans' records?

And he says, no, sure, no, sir, we're not, you know, intentionally or something like that.

And then later he says, well, I told the most truthful,

you know, least truthful, whatever it was.

And then eventually had to apologize because the Snowden documents revealed they were capturing everything.

So it's not just metadata.

They were doing whole capture of phone calls, all kinds of stuff.

NSA was embedded inside of Google and Yahoo and Microsoft

so that everything on like your Google Drive was accessible.

If you look at the PowerPoint, the engineers are so excited they have like emojis and smiley faces.

Like we got it.

We, you know, we finally got into Google.

So that's, that was probably the first episode that got me really

thinking, okay, every so often I'm going to do a government corruption, government transparency episode.

Try to make it fun, but, but the point is, you know, do not trust them.

They are constantly lying to us.

And

there's no regard to the Constitution at all.

Now, the Patriot Act, for me, it's kind of weird because I'm a New Yorker.

I was there for 9-11.

And it's very emotional for New Yorkers that were there still, still very emotional.

You know, I had a friend who was a fireman there as part of cleanup, and he was just a broken man after that, just completely broken.

And my brother had friends in one of the towers that came down.

So it's close to us.

So I remember I was all in with whatever we got to do to get these guys.

Patriot Act, let's do it.

But

we kind of expanded the government's powers a lot there.

And it seemed like it happened pretty quickly.

So you've got 9-11.

And the Patriot Act is signed, I think like October 16th or 20, like it was like four, six weeks that they got this giant bill together.

So either they had some really smart lawyers or this was kind of hanging around, like, and here's an opportunity to do it.

And that leads into the 9-11 conspiracy, which kind of makes sense, which I don't go into on my show.

Why don't you go into that?

Because it's a taboo topic and it's emotionally charged.

And the bad guys are, you know, the bad guys are the government.

And we can,

if we learn that, that 9-11 really was an inside job,

I don't know how that doesn't really challenge your patriotism.

Now, I consider myself a patriot.

I love my country.

I don't like the people that run it.

I like the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

I really like those.

And I'm very libertarian.

Borderline anarchist

in a political sense.

Not like craziness, meaning like,

I don't think we need much government for anything.

Keep us safe abroad, domestically, keep it local.

That's kind of how I feel.

I think the federal government's way too involved in our lives and every different level.

I'm with you.

But the Patriot Act

violates the First Amendment in a few different ways.

You know, free speech is gone.

So

if you say anything that's

considered dangerous or explosive, suddenly you're on a list.

And then

you can be gag-ordered.

So that's prior restraint.

You can't do that.

Then you've got the Fourth Amendment violations, where illegal search and seizure, you can't search through Americans without probable clause.

You just can't.

But the Patriot Act says you no longer need probable cause.

You just need to be relevant.

So if you're relevant to an investigation, then we don't need a warrant.

We can just look into your files.

And this gets renewed time and time again.

So it's not a left-right Democrat-Republican.

They just keep, these are sunset clauses that keep getting re-signed.

I forget the numbers offhand, but 215 is certainly one of them.

And the Patriot Act is mostly used for

finding drug dealers.

It's not really used for terrorism.

It never really was.

We don't really know if it's ever stopped anything.

And then, you know, the IC and the government will say, well, you don't know because we can't tell you, but we stopped this or that.

Well, but did you know?

At some point, you have to tell us if it worked because we need to decide if we still want to do this because you're encroaching on a First Amendment right, our Fourth, our Fifth Amendment,

due process, habeas corpus.

And

I thought this was just supposed to be for like foreign agents.

But now, if an American is on the phone with someone

who's a foreign national, now this American is wrapped up in the Patriot Act.

When what should happen is

as soon as who's ever

surveil foreigners all you want.

I don't care.

Leave my citizens alone.

So as soon as you find out, well, all right, this person of interest is on the phone with an American, well, then it stops.

Now you have to bring this out of the Patriot Act and put it into our legal system.

and have a judge look at it and all of that, not a FISA court rubber stamp where FISA is like 99.97%

just get, yes, go whatever you got to do.

That's another violation of separation of powers.

You have no oversight.

It just seems like,

doesn't seem like it's what it is.

You know, it's interesting, too, because if they were doing that

with all the

just one aspect, you know, all the mass shootings that are happening, if they were really surveilling everybody,

don't you think those people maybe have had some type of communication or,

I mean, it's been proven, right?

There's been things on Facebook.

There's been things on Instagram.

If they're on there, they're definitely in text messagings and voice calls and all of that stuff.

Unless they want that stuff to happen, maybe they do.

Maybe, maybe, who knows?

Maybe they use it against the Second Amendment.

Well, let's, rather than even speculate, let's look at an actual case where

at some point, I don't remember when, during the Biden administration, remember you had all these parents that were protesting about whatever trans issues or whatever they were.

I'm not interested in that.

Believe what you want to believe on that issue.

That's none of my business.

What I care about is

the administration worked with a group to write a letter.

to the president to designate these Americans as potential domestic terrorists and use the Patriot Act to surveil them and gather records on them and look into them.

That's, we can't have that.

I don't know why there was an outrage over that.

These are Americans from the jump.

So the Patriot Act shouldn't apply.

But it does.

And no one really challenges it.

I don't think anyone even really talks about this that much.

I've never heard about it.

You know, it all goes back to Snowden because they lied and lied and lied.

And then the Snowden documents were, it it was just such a bombshell.

But not only are they collecting all this stuff, I mean, all of us,

all, you know, every single one of us, but they were in our files.

They can read our email.

They can, you know, our search history, everything about us.

Where

if you, you know, if I'm charged with something and you use the Patriot Act against me, my first thing would be like, well, it's all inadmissible.

I'm an American citizen.

I have Fourth Amendment right.

You didn't have probable cause.

Let me see the warrant.

Let me see the affidavit.

What judge did you use?

Well, use the FISA judge.

Well,

the FISA reviews are done in complete secrecy.

There's no transparency.

No one can, you can't sit in on those.

You know, you can't wander into the courtroom like you can in most towns here and just watch proceedings.

It's all secret.

It's just

you've got Richard Nixon, who turns the intelligence community, foreign and domestic, against his political enemies.

That's bad.

So then we review that, then you have the church committee, and out of that, you get the Foreign and Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 is FISA.

What was the church committee?

That was reviewing all what CIA and FBI was doing.

All the bad stuff kind of came to light during the church committee.

And that made Congress realize, oh,

they're using FBI to actually go after political enemies.

We can't have that.

So we'll have FISA, which will review these.

But then FISA starts to get abused.

And then when the Patriot Act comes along in 2001, it supercharges FISA.

And now everything is just rubber stamped.

And we don't know really what they're doing with it.

We just know they renew it.

And

whether it's Trump or Biden or Obama,

that sign with the pen and there's applause, and America is going to be safe.

And I don't know if there's any evidence of that.

You know, out of that time, we got the TSA.

I think the TSA is just in the way.

I think in 2015, they sent, they were called Red Teams to test the TSA,

like secret shop them.

And they created mock weapons and mock explosives.

Take a guess at what percentage got through.

Oh, man.

95.

Are you serious?

95% got through.

So then they tried it again in 2017.

95%

guns, bombs, all of it.

You You know, so we have a shoe bomber that is ridiculous.

So now we have all taking off our shoes.

Then we have someone who's going to make a bomb with liquid that's not going to work, but now we can't bring, you know, shampoo.

So I've got my wife emptying her purse because the shampoo is over the ounces.

Are you crazy?

And, you know, you're basically assaulting a grandma.

Is that that's really who we're worried about?

Where you know, I'm small government libertarian.

I say get rid of all of that and let the airlines handle their own security.

They do it more efficiently.

And if the airline's not doing it well, no one will fly on it and they'll go away.

And then you wouldn't have to wait on these lines with this ineffective agency.

Now, after the red teams filed their report, TSA kind of

tried to do a better job.

And then they were tested again two years later.

And I think 60% got through.

It was the majority.

So it's ineffective.

TSA has never stopped a terrorist, never once.

There's zero times.

Terrorism is stopped locally by local law enforcement and with federal intervention long before they get to the airport.

That's where it happens.

People can say I'm wrong, but the data is the data.

If they were stopping terrorists all the time, then great, then let's keep doing it.

But if it's just a bloated bureaucracy that's making us miserable, I hate going.

to the airport because of this.

It's the worst part of it is doing it.

And it's so ineffectual.

So, I don't know why it's still there.

I don't know why we had to create the Department of Homeland Security and take 22 agencies and lump them together with all this overlap.

And now you've got,

I mean, still, this is 25 years.

There's still turf wars, and it's my jurisdiction.

No, it's mine.

It's my collar.

No, it's mine.

I don't know why we needed to create another bureaucracy that's $100 billion a year.

It's got a quarter million employees.

We had the FBI.

We had immigration.

we had the Border Patrol, we had all the agencies already.

Now you put them under a cabinet position, and

it's all this overlap.

And I don't think it's necessary, not efficient, and I don't think it's keeping us safer.

Now, I could be wrong, I don't know.

I want us to take the right steps to keep us safe.

Like I said, I want people in law enforcement and the military to have the best tools to do whatever needs to be done, to be absolutely vicious with our enemies.

But

Americans are not really the enemies.

And there needs to be some oversight and transparency because we don't know what any of these agencies are doing.

And we see just recently that the FBI was used for political purposes again.

So I brought up a couple of cases where it was Democrats using it, but remember this all comes out of Nixon and Republicans using it.

And would President Trump use these agencies to help him?

Well, he's doing it now.

Maybe it's justified.

Maybe it's not.

How's he doing it now?

I think with him, it's a lot of getting even because

they really,

what they did to him was just so unprecedented with a former president to

charge him with, what, 97 felonies, to try and take him off the ballot in 25 states.

I mean,

to try to ruin him financially and personally and go through his wife's underwear and, you know, drag him through the courts in Georgia and try to make him go broke.

So

anybody is going to, if you get back in power, if it was me, it'd be the same thing.

Well, I'm going to do everything illegally, but now what comes around goes around.

And that's not really the way it should be.

These agencies should be completely agnostic.

Like, no, sir, we can't do that.

We're not going after the former president.

And no, President Trump, we're not going after these people.

We don't do that.

We follow crimes.

Let's have them do that.

You know, what's interesting is the Patriot Act, I mean, it was set in place for terrorism, correct?

And so, you know, we were talking about off-camera about, you know, the Taliban funding and all this stuff.

And I have a lot of contacts, you know, that

are

former agency types, former Intel types, and one in particular,

Sarah Adams,

one of the best targeters to ever come out of CIA.

And she

has broken on the show several times that there are a minimum of a thousand terrorist cells within our country.

And, you know, how they communicate.

So we have the Patriot Act, right?

It's all basically tech-based.

People think that these terrorists are dumb because they live in cave.

You know, they live in caves, they live in mud huts, they wear, you know, sandals.

It's very, very,

it's almost like prehistoric time period when you go there.

So they have completely,

they don't communicate through tech at all anymore.

And so what she says, and other

intelligence professionals have said, is that within these terrorist cells,

The only way that they communicate with their HQ, which is in Afghanistan, is through through couriers.

So there's no texts, there's no emails, there's no voice calls.

None of them know where each other are at.

So

even if you were able to find out where one of the cells are at,

you could not interrogate them to find out where the other cells are.

They're all completely independent of each other.

And they only use couriers, which means they fly a guy in, they brief him, they debrief, the information goes back to HQ and Afghanistan.

So it would be impossible

to break down the entire network.

I can't think of, I don't even know where you would start.

I don't know how you would either.

I mean,

it wasn't that how Osama bin Alan was finally found was through his couriers, right?

It wasn't through intercepting any intelligence through wires.

It was through human talk just following this guy around.

He's going to this palace.

So I think all you're doing there is you're forcing them to learn tradecraft and just get better at tradecraft because they can do that.

They pivot.

What is the Patriot Act turning into?

I think it's just turned into a political tool at this point.

You know, going after the parents was really

a big red flag because the Patriot Act was specifically in that letter.

Like, you should use the Patriot Act to go after these people.

And I didn't think any of those parents looked like political or domestic terrorists to me.

Maybe that's my bias.

What parents?

There was a lot of parents protesting

during the trans controversy in the protesting

schools.

And

part of the administration at that time wanted to label label them domestic terrorists and put them under surveillance.

And then once they become

relevant is the word in the act.

Once they become relevant to an investigation, then you don't have to, then the Bill of Rights is gone.

Then they can just go into your bank account, see what's going on there, your businesses, all of that, and just and just compile a file on you.

You know, it's like that old Soviet saying, like, well, show me the man and I'll show you the crime.

And that's just not how it's it's supposed to be done.

And I don't think it makes us safer.

But again, I'm kind of blackpilled on it because once you have that power, you don't want to give it up.

If I was in charge, I wouldn't want to give it up either.

I would hope that if I was in that position, I would do the right thing, but I don't know.

I'm as flawed as anybody else.

But when, you know, when Clapper is caught,

I don't know when you left.

Was Brennan, did you leave before Brennan?

2015.

Brennan was 2015.

I think we might see some indictments for some of these people.

And for everyone screaming left and right, look,

these are people on both sides that are going to get caught up in this.

But I think we're going to see some indictments.

Why do you think that?

Because they did it.

You know, they did it.

You know, the Russia collusion thing, they did it.

The Steel dossier, they did it, they did it, they did it.

So Clapper lies to Congress and we find out he's violating all of our rights.

I think he was DNI at the time.

And instead of going to prison, he becomes a contributor on CNN or MSNBC.

I don't know why he didn't go to prison.

I don't know why none of these people go to

face any ramifications at all.

How about just

a misdemeanor?

Just show me that we don't live in a two-tiered, three-tiered system where it seems like if I did any of this stuff, I'd go to jail forever.

They can't show you.

But if you're in the swamp.

So I can't.

I have no solutions.

All I have is complaints.

Man.

What do you think they do with all the information?

Most of it I don't think they do anything with.

But,

you know, if it turns up that,

like, do you think that you're

of interest to someone somewhere, right?

I know I am.

Of course.

So.

So bad.

Everything you do is collected.

Right?

There's probably

two or three collections officers that are just dedicated to what you do.

Why?

Why?

Because.

Man, this sounds weird to say, and these are not my words, but

because we have an impact on the consciousness of the U.S.

That's not that that's dangerous.

They do not want they want to control the impact.

They can't have independent voices controlling the conversation.

They've got a lot of them now.

You know, I hope that we're past that point of inflection where the independent voices are more powerful.

I think they are.

I think they are.

They definitely are.

I get more views on a video than all cable news channels combined.

So do you.

The number of views that you get is all of cable combined.

There's no power there anymore.

And they don't like that.

But

it's not like we've rested it away.

People just started talking, and Americans just want to listen to different voices.

And I think we need more of that on every part of of the political spectrum.

Yeah, I think the media is over.

I do too.

I think it will die with the baby boomer generation.

Yep.

I think it's done.

And I see certain people that

I think are injected into the YouTube podcast stratosphere that

they try to

create narratives, but it's tricky.

You know, you could have somebody in here,

and I think I've had one or two,

not realizing it until afterwards.

But,

you know, how it works is.

Wait a second.

You feel like people have come in here to try to push a narrative?

Yeah.

Did you sniff it out?

Yeah.

Like while it was happening, you were like, wait a minute.

There's been, I've had interviews that I never released.

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

One of, I've had a couple, not very many.

But, you know, when I was asking you about, do you feel that you take on a tremendous responsibility?

I, I feel that I have a great responsibility when I'm diving into

corruption,

exposing something, exposing evil, whatever it may be.

You have to fucking be careful with that because

people base decisions off what is said in here.

And I remember one specific example.

I had a guy come on

and he was talking about a lot of COVID stuff.

And I told you at breakfast, I don't like diving into COVID because

everybody was talking about it.

I don't really have anything new to bring to the table.

Right.

You know,

and there's a couple, there's January 6th is another one.

I don't really feel, there's so many people on that that I don't feel that I,

I don't bring anything to the table that hasn't already been said.

Also, I mean, with that specific event, J6,

I mean,

I think everybody was wrong.

Yep.

I mean, if you thought it was a great idea

to storm the fucking Capitol.

I don't even know, you know what I mean?

I don't even know where to begin.

Like, not a good idea.

And on the other side, you know, when, when

he asked, you know, for National Guard and was denied, I mean,

no one talks about that.

Yep.

That was,

there's a whole note that that's wrong, you know, and so I don't, I don't think there's any

good that came from either side on that.

I think that entire

event was

a black eye on America.

but

and now i forgot where i was going with this because we don't we're talking about people coming in here with an event

and so how it works i mean

you could have somebody sit in here for eight hours

four hours five whatever

they may only have one specific sentence in that five-hour interview that they want this person to say.

And it's going to be a banger.

And the other thing that could happen is they will

predict information that's going to come out

in days, weeks, in a month, in a couple months.

And they'll make these predictions about what's going to happen, who did what,

you know, whatever.

And they already know.

It's not a prediction.

It's a, it's, or maybe it didn't happen, but that's what's going to play out in mainstream media.

And these people will come in and they will make these predictions.

And some of these guys and girls will go,

they do the circuit.

They go on every podcast, right?

They go on all the podcasts

and

they'll text you.

Like, oh, I said this on your podcast.

I said this was going to happen.

We should do this again.

And it's like

you've must have been on 20 podcasts in the past month and you remember

exactly what you said on my podcast i don't remember what the hell i said yesterday but you're here to remind me that you predicted this on my

show and now you want to come on again

and then another one and then another one and it's like i see what's happening here you can't give an example you're right what's that you can't give an example i don't want to fair enough i don't want to drop names because i can't be certain just like you were doing earlier not a name

an idea yeah i don't i mean that would give it away fair enough so

so i don't because if that person didn't do that then i destroy not pressing you know what i mean and that and so i i i really try to only talk about things

if i'm gonna articulate it i want it to be true you know to the best of my knowledge And I don't, this is, this is, this is an inclination, this is a feeling,

knowing how things work, I've

contracted for intelligence agencies at a very low level, but, you know, it wasn't like the,

you don't get access to everything and be like, oh, I got a TS clearance now, so I can just dive into whatever I want.

No, that's not how it works.

And so this, the stuff that I knew was very,

it was very localized to exactly what I was a part of overseas in Afghanistan, Iraq, those Middle East type stuff.

But I'm quick and I see how it works and I've seen how it works in other countries.

And so when I start picking up on it, I'm like, no, no,

you're not coming back on.

No way.

Too many predictions came true.

There's no way you could have known that.

And there's no way out of the 20 podcasts you just did in the the past month that you remember exactly what the fuck you talked about on my show.

This is

this smells weird.

So not doing it again.

And,

you know,

so that's kind of, that's the point.

That's the point.

It doesn't, it doesn't mean the whole duration of the interview is the message that's trying to be sent.

It could be one sentence.

Or it could just be, let's establish this guy's credibility so that all the podcasts want the breaking news right and so i'm in i mean i'm slow but i'm in tune you know and and i kind of

i know how things work to a certain extent not very much but

i can pick up on things and um and the other thing that people are really good at is manipulating information politicians are amazing at it you know statistics only only go so far.

There's all kinds of sets of statistics that may be true, but there's nuance behind it.

And so with the COVID thing,

I was interviewing this guy and he kept telling, saying, hey, COVID was developed in a lab,

University of North Carolina.

It was patented before COVID ever came out.

And it was this long interview all about COVID, COVID, the vaccine, da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

And I was, I took the vaccine.

I didn't want to take the vaccine, but

my son was being born right at that time period.

And I was, I was like, well,

I've done a lot of drugs in my life.

How bad could this be?

And if those didn't kill me, and I've seen a lot of combat, and I've done a lot of dangerous shit, right?

And if none of that killed me, then this stupid little vaccine isn't going to kill me either.

And it hasn't.

And I don't have any heart problems, at least not yet.

I don't have any of the weird, you know, I don't don't have any of this, the, the, the,

whatever.

So anyways, this guy was going on about the COVID vaccine, how it was developed, University of North Carolina had a play in it, and that it was patented pre-COVID.

But every time he would say the,

it was COVID-19, COVID-19, COVID-19, when he would say the vaccine was patented, he would say the SARS vaccine was patented pre-COVID.

Well, you know, if you look, there's like

100 strands of COVID

that have been around for a long, long time.

Coronavirus is a lot of things.

Yep.

And so when he kept saying SARS, and I didn't pick up on it right off the bat, it wasn't until after the interview and I started, I called, you know, Darren in there and I was like, we can't release it.

And he's like, this is so good.

This is so good.

It's so corrupt.

And I'm like, he kept saying the SARS vaccine.

Why didn't he say the COVID-19 vaccine?

Because he's not technically lying.

Right.

I'm sure there were a lot of SARS vaccines that were patented pre-COVID, but he never did say that the COVID-19 vaccine was patented pre-COVID.

He would switch it to SARS.

So I wouldn't release it because, you know,

while I am,

I'm not anti-vax.

I don't like the COVID vax.

Took it because I wanted to see my son born.

And I was worried that the hospital was going to come out with some, you know what I mean, some weird rule that you had to show your vaccine card or something.

And, and the doctor was pushing it too.

But,

but, um, so I took it because I was like, I'm not missing that for anything.

I don't care.

But

when you put something like that out, then people start to make, they use that in their decision-making process.

And I don't want to be the guy

that's putting out false information or platforming somebody that's putting out that kind of information that's going to dictate how somebody makes a decision on whether they're going to get the vaccine or not.

I mean,

it is what it is.

It wasn't the numbers that were reported, you know, but people were dying from it.

And I don't want somebody to die because they didn't take

something that may have, probably not.

I mean, I got COVID right after I took the fucking vaccine.

Of course.

They couldn't even figure out how to test for it.

It's like, well, let's take another one.

Well, this one's non-conclusive.

It's therapeutic.

But I wouldn't put it out because I didn't, I was like, I can't have people making decisions off something that I'm not certain about.

I mean, we talk, you know, we talk about aliens, we talk about conspiracies, but that's fun shit to think about.

Doesn't really matter.

You know, okay, so if it is true, it's not going to affect your decision-making process throughout the day.

You're not going to make life-changing decisions based off of whether there's aliens or there isn't aliens, or they remote-viewed alien bases in fucking Alaskan mountains, or if there's aliens on the moon.

Like, cool.

If they're there, they're there.

And if they're not, they're not.

Doesn't really like it might affect me, but there's no decision that I can make that's going to change the outcome of that.

Right.

And so I'm very particular about if I, if I talk about a subject like that, I'm very particular on

who I get and what's being put out.

And

there's been others.

I did one on the World Economic Forum.

I was like this.

And

the guy couldn't even tell me what

the World Economic Forum was.

I'm like, yeah, but what is it?

And he's like, well, the Google Chrome sign is a 666.

And I'm like, okay,

that's another subject.

What is the World Economic Forum?

Is it a business?

What is it?

What kind of entity is it?

Do you know?

Well, this did, if you look at the Bible, it says this.

And I'm like,

don't be out here quoting scripture in the middle of this interview.

I'm asking about the World Economic Forum.

Was he a part of it?

Was he a member of?

No, no, no.

He was

in a group.

that

a lot of wild things came out of.

and I'll tell you, I'll tell you more about it after the interview, but

I just, I cut it.

I was like, this is bullshit.

Like, you're just trying to fucking get notoriety and fame and whatever the hell you're pushing.

I don't know what it is, but it doesn't even make any damn sense.

So let's just cut this right now.

Get the fuck out of here.

Yeah.

But,

you know, so, I mean, the disinformation agents are everywhere.

And also, I mean, I think a lot of people don't even realize that they are disinformation agents.

It just, you know, know,

they get fed some bullshit from the government and then they start talking about it and they wrap their whole identity around it and it becomes their,

it becomes their identity.

Well, I mean, we have Operation Mockingbird

that really happened.

We've got 400 people in news, in major news networks that are just mouthpieces for intelligence.

And you had journalists that were actually operatives.

Their cover was just, I'm a journalist.

You had journalists introducing

politicians overseas.

And you had journalists that were essentially bag men for the agency overseas where they would say, you can use my hotel room for that meeting.

So that's not 100 years ago.

That's 30 years ago.

And

I don't think it ever really ended.

I think that's why this is a this platform is a problem because you can have that interview.

You can smell something that smells funny and you can say, Darren, let's cut it.

But MSNBC doesn't do that.

They just, they read it and it's just out there.

So, and you see all the media say the same thing.

Fox, they all say the same stuff.

There's no one saying, you know what, that didn't feel right.

Let's cut it.

But you can do that here.

That's a problem.

We don't cut much.

The only time I'll cut something is, you know, we get a lot of military guys that were on high-profile missions and stuff like that.

And sometimes it's, it's in the moment, it could be hard to know, like, is still classified?

Should I be talking about this?

Am I giving up tactics?

And so, sometimes guys will call in and they'll be like, hey,

could we just cut like that one sliver?

I said somebody's name, that person is still in, or you know what I mean?

And I don't want to blow their cover, stuff like that.

I did it with the Sam Shoe-made interview where we talked about the Tesla bomber at Trump Hotel in Vegas.

You know, we had actually

that guy was on a mission where in Afghanistan,

the bomber, he was a Green Beret, he was on a mission where they blew up a bunch of a big poppy farm and killed a lot of people, a lot of innocent people.

And

was it the UN or NATO did an investigation on it?

I was like, is this shit real?

So we looked it up and sure as shit, there was a UN or a NATO report, I can't remember.

on it.

And it did actually happen.

And one of the DEA operatives reached out to me and was like, I was on that.

My name was in that email.

Could you please black it out?

Because I'm still undercover and I'm doing different stuff.

And if that comes out, then I'm screwed.

And I was like, yep, we'll black the name out.

Like,

I'm not going to compromise

U.S.

Intel guys or DEA or military that are still active because they're doing it.

They don't have an agenda.

They're just doing a job.

So I'll take stuff like that out.

But I won't take.

it and then we we just had somebody actually that that um

had somewhat of a relationship with epstein and they wanted that pulled out and i was like that's like the whole interview i can't pull that you said no

i said it's in there or we're not kicking it out the door Okay.

Well, you gave them the option.

Yeah.

And they were like, okay, okay, put it out.

And I was like, I have to look at, look at that one.

I have to watch that one.

It's not out.

Oh.

They said, put it, they're like, okay, fine, put it out.

And then they're like, no, no, no, just take this.

And I was like, just fuck that.

We're not dealing with this shit.

Like, you come in here, you know what this is.

Be ready to do it or don't come.

And

so, but that's, that's kind of how I deal with it.

But that's, that's how it works, man.

That's how it works.

It could be one sentence in a

several hour long interview, and that's the snippet.

That's what they want to inject into the consciousness of the people.

Do you think that changes from administration to administration?

Or do you think it's

operating?

I don't want to say shadow government, but it seems like that goes on no matter who's in the White House.

Yeah,

I don't think any of these people are good.

I don't think they are good people at their core.

And I think this just continues to happen.

The agendas change, but the tactics don't.

You think they think they're good?

I think that they fall into traps

and they don't see a way out.

And then they just get sucked in.

I can see that.

I can understand that.

I think some of them maybe start out.

I think there are good ones in there.

The only politicians that I really trust

is Eli Crane out of Arizona and Tim Burchett out of Knoxville, Tennessee.

Those are the only ones that

I 99.9%

think are good human beings and

cannot be swayed.

And those two have been stonewalled by intelligence.

Yep.

Yep.

Even when I got approached about running, you know, I called a couple of people, two of the both of those guys, I called and I was like, I want to have an impact.

I've been approached about running.

What do you think?

And they were like, don't do it.

And Eli,

for an example, he's like, I can't get on any of these fucking committees.

He's like, they won't put me on any of these committees because I won't play ball.

Right.

And he goes, if you can't get into the committees,

you're just a beat suit in a chair.

You have no impact.

And

on top of that, they said, what you're doing now has way more impact than you ever could have if you were

to get into office.

So I decided I'm not doing it.

And then diving into it more, I do.

I think that's how they're controlled.

And being, you know, going like at the beginning, when we were talking about the entertainment industry, which I hate, you know,

you start to see like

they want you to talk about this subject.

They want you to talk about that subject.

They don't want you to talk to this person.

And it's like, your job is to fucking get me business, not talk about who I talk to or what I talk about.

Go get business.

Don't fucking interfere with my show.

And

so

I got rid of all of them.

And I start to see it again, you know, like I said, with politicians.

You know, you come in here.

I think we share, you know,

at the beginning, some of the ones that I brought on,

a lot of these people weren't even,

they weren't even on the radar to get picked up at the administration.

So I didn't know.

I didn't

even know their aspirations.

They were just good guests to get.

But

now that I've created this network within politics,

they try to manipulate me.

Of course.

And

it can be hard to get a phone call from somebody very powerful that wants you to do something.

And I just ghost them now.

In fact, I'm getting ready.

I had told you, I get so paranoid about it that

it sent me down this route.

I had to find the black phone that can't be traced.

I found it, you know, and, but it's going to be a big step to be untraceable.

A really big step to be untraceable.

Yeah.

If you don't have a phone number,

that's...

That's how you do it.

But if you don't have a phone number, I think the Patriot Act would find you relevant for investigation.

Well, I'm going to try it.

So, but,

and then, you know, we're developing

the phone's very expensive.

And so, anyways, we're developing an app that's more consumer-friendly that doesn't have all the features that the phone has, but it's enough

to make you

invisible.

I would like to learn more about that at some point.

I'll tell you about it offline.

Okay.

I can't go too far into

it yet.

They don't want that app coming out.

But it's happening.

We're doing it.

But I think what happens is that they fall into these traps, not realizing they're a trap.

That's where I was going in the entertainment industry.

There's also traps.

There's these favors.

I did this for you.

You didn't do that.

You didn't do shit for me.

I could have connected with that person on my own.

Right.

I didn't fucking need you.

Go get business.

And,

but it becomes this favor brokering thing.

And what I see, you know, and this is very recent, is I see how minuscule the favors are.

And it's like, this person helped me do this.

So you shouldn't talk to this person about this.

And it's like,

that person was just doing their fucking job, man.

That's not a favor.

That's their job is to get your ass in there.

That's not a favor.

And so if the favors start at that minuscule of a level, then what happens when the big favors start coming up?

Like Epstein, protecting your friends, you know, shit like all the corruption that we see happening.

And

I think they get so wrapped up in these favors and they get trapped and then it gets more evil and more evil and more evil and they don't see a way out and they get addicted to power.

really addicted to power and

they are controlled through favors, blackmail, shit like that.

Don't do favors.

I never ask favors.

I was teasing Jeremy about it, offering all kinds of great stuff, contacts, whatever.

I said, I don't ask favors because when I do, I really need it.

But I don't ask favors.

That

and those favors,

yeah.

I don't ask for favors either.

Nope.

But when you do, it's like, oh, he really needs a hand here.

Yep.

Have you seen

guests that you've had on on other shows that you released and realized you got burned?

How so?

What do you mean, like you let an episode go out and this person shows up on another show or two and you're like, ah, god damn it, they got me.

What do you mean they got me?

They got that one line out.

No.

Okay.

Well, I don't really watch any other shows.

Okay.

So I, like I said, I get all of my information through this.

Not all of it, but the majority.

i scroll enough to get interest in certain subjects you're i'm not around you're the only

you are the only you the wifiles is the only youtube channel that i watch on a consistent basis

but

i i don't do it and also i don't want to take somebody else's creativity you know because when you start to watch all this other stuff it's like oh i should be doing that i don't want that i want everything here to be organically generated

The set, everything, you know,

it's my creation.

It's what me and my team have come up with.

Not, we need to be more like this guy or we need to be more like this guy.

So, now I haven't seen, I haven't seen a one-liner, you know, that and it would be impossible to pick out because a lot of times they're talking about the same shit.

But,

but, um,

so no, it's just, it's just,

it's just a thought that'll, that'll hit me like a bolt of lightning all of a sudden, and it's like,

that was a mistake.

Yeah.

But you couldn't have known.

You couldn't have known it was a mistake at the time.

Especially if they're really good at it.

It's in retrospect that you see it.

It's a very strange position that you're in.

I don't envy it.

It's tough.

It's a lot of stress and anxiety.

I bet.

You know, just with the things I do is stress enough, but this is serious, what you do here.

I'm just an entertainer.

At least that's, you know, I just talk to a fish is my line.

Yeah, well, you're kicking a lot of rocks over.

That can be dangerous.

A lot of centipedes under there.

Yep.

I try not to, I name names if I don't have to.

You know, I mention Clapper because that infuriates me.

But

I try not to criticize anyone who's like around.

I'm not looking to make enemies.

I'm not looking to embarrass anybody or out anybody

um

you know when i talk about the the conspiracies and the alien stuff the only names i really name are like the guys who say they were in the marines and they did this thing like stolen valor is i'm i'm wired to not like that so i'll just name your names but otherwise nah i just not looking to make waves yeah yeah

Yeah, we've had a couple of stolen valor guys on.

In fact, one of them, the army, is investigating that person on stolen valor

and uh if it comes out i'm waiting for the official investigation to run but if it comes out then i'll

i'll

have to make some kind of a statement or something but because you released that episode yeah

yeah but

that person's been around for a long time I got a lot of flack afterwards.

This person came on, and then all these other people started diving into his background

and it's caused a lot of it's been a huge pain in my ass but I can't I mean I can't verify you know somebody's service account no that would take

months maybe years you know to track everybody down that was there

and I mean it makes me sick that somebody would do that but you know my argument I got approached by somebody my argument was well you know I see you coming at me and you're fucking blaming me for platforming this person.

How would I have known that?

And,

you know, but

so it's great.

You want to hold me accountable.

Why don't you hold the fucking U.S.

Army accountable?

Right.

That would be the right thing to do because I'm just a podcaster.

This person is still in.

And

so don't you think that the U.S.

Army should be held accountable for sending a guy out and spreading bullshit, fucking stolen valor lies?

I never thought of that.

Maybe you should fucking think about that.

He was sent out by the Army?

He wasn't sent out by the Army, but he's still in.

Yeah, it's.

But

they took that, you know, suggestion that I did, and they got in touch with whoever at the Army, and now the Army has actually opened an investigation on this person.

Well, good.

So, yeah, but

people think maybe

we and certainly you

should be doing more background than we do.

And it's like,

because I get things wrong all the time.

And I just try to be as honest as possible.

Like, I'm not an expert on any of this.

No, I didn't look into this person's background since the beginning.

So yeah,

that whole thing was bullshit.

You know, I'm sorry.

I'm just trying to

entertain.

Yeah.

You can't track down all of these people in their entire background.

We just never get anything done.

Yeah, exactly.

And back to my previous point, you know,

whether it's Stolen Valor or not, and it very likely is,

I mean,

that's not affecting somebody's decision-making.

Nope.

So it's a, you know,

fictional novel that you're listening to instead of, you know, actual events that happen.

Now, it does really fucking piss me off because if you did that, that takes away from every other, you know,

heroic icon that sat across from me in that chair, and that's disgusting.

But, you know, but did it affect somebody's decision-making throughout the day?

No, it didn't.

And I don't think your audience,

your audience forgives you.

They understand.

I would guess.

Mine does for the most part.

The good ones.

Yeah, me too.

Me too.

If If I get something wrong, I just say it.

The loudest motherfucker in the room is always the biggest shitbag.

That's right.

So

it's just the problem is I tend to gravitate toward the negativity bias.

You know, I'll ignore 99 compliments and then the one guy who's screaming at me for the thing I got wrong and the stupid thing I said, that's what I focus on.

It ruins my day.

It's like,

this guy's name is like Joe Below69.

What do I even care?

Yeah.

But I can't help it.

It's probably a bot anyways.

Probably a bot.

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But

let's dive into the Giants.

Okay, good.

We'll lighten it up.

You see,

I get all cagey with Patriot Act, but giants will be fine.

Giants are fun.

And where do you want to start?

The beginning?

Yeah.

Giants are in every culture's history.

Every culture's got giants mentioned.

Ancient Indian Vedas, Native Americans,

Island of Malta,

East Asian, every culture has giants.

And the Bible, of course, Epic of Gilgamesh.

So giants show up all through our culture.

And whenever I see that, you know, a lot of what I do is just pattern recognition.

Like, I wasn't even really a

a flood myth guy until I started doing my show.

And it's like, this flood story story keeps showing up over and over no matter what I'm talking about.

The flood myth shows up and it's always showing up at the same time as like the end of the younger dryest.

Like these things, it's just the same pattern over and over.

Maybe it's a coincidence, but

if

one culture has a story about a flood, then they have a story.

If two cultures have it, it could be a coincidence.

But if you get 40 or 300, then maybe there's something to it.

Maybe it really happened.

So

I'm pretty sure that flood happened.

Now, as for giants,

giants is tricky because

we don't have any hard evidence, but we have a lot of circumstantial evidence

where

the most recent would probably be late 19th century or early 20th, where you just have these discoveries all over America, over a thousand of them, of

these amateur archaeologists finding giant bones.

And

the story is always the same as this, this guy's, he's, you know, he's digging and he's like desecrating a Native American burial mound, finds these giant bones, calls the Smithsonian, they come over, they investigate, they take the bones, they go back and then it disappears.

Like that happens over and over through these stories is the Smithsonian conspiracy is always involved.

But

So are you saying the Smithsonian hides evidence of giants?

I'm saying that the conspiracy theory is that the Smithsonian hides evidence of a lot of things.

The Smithsonian, of which I'm a huge fan of.

Like if I go to D.C., I spend four days there.

I love the museum part.

But what we don't see is all the

kind of the dark underside of the Smithsonian.

Like when it was formed.

Like the Vatican.

The Vatican.

We can talk about that too.

The Smithsonian, I think the first director might have been been John Wesley Powell.

I could be fact-checked on that.

Who was

like, he spent a lot of time with Native Americans.

He respected them.

He saw them as very intelligent and resourceful.

So they were well represented in the Smithsonian, but then he appointed,

I forget the gentleman's name, but he was like the chief ethnographer for the East.

East

Ohio or something like this, some crazy title.

And he gets into a position of power and it turns out that he

sees Native cultures as Native Americans as not as subhuman.

He called them specimens.

He would put like their body parts on display and stuff.

Look at these Native American specimens.

So there'd be all these discoveries of these amazing mounds like the Serpent Mountain in Ohio and all this stuff all around the country.

And the Smithsonian would say there must have been another

advanced race here because Native Americans are just too, they're savages.

They couldn't never build this.

And that became kind of embedded in the Smithsonian for a long, long time

is

this isolationist

theory is what they called it, where before it was called diffusionism,

where diffusionism was cultures from all around the world interacted.

But then the new regime came in and said there's no way that Native Americans from the Mississippian culture could interact with the Mayas or the Incas.

They just, they were too savage to do that, which is ridiculous.

That's like, you know, saying that Carthage didn't have anything to do with Rome.

You know, of course they did.

And we've learned later that some of the biggest, most advanced cities in the world,

of the ancient world, were here in America.

Like

the city of Cahokia

was a Mississippian culture.

It was bigger than London.

It was bigger than Paris.

It was like a big advanced civilization that just got kind of covered over.

And so the Smithsonian just sort of had this worldview that they're just locked into it.

And

I think we see a lot of that with

pseudoscience, pseudo-archaeology.

If it doesn't fit the mainstream narrative, then it's you're marginalized, you're censored.

You know, again, Graham Hancock, when Ancient Apocalypse came out, it was called the dangerous, most dangerous series on Netflix

because it was

white supremacy and all this crazy stuff.

White supremacy.

Because

if it's an advanced civilization that was here before us,

the implication is that it was white when he never says anything like that.

He never says anything like that.

He's married to a woman of color.

So it's infuriating.

Because he took a lot of heat for that show.

He loved that show.

Of course.

And you don't have to believe all of it.

And I don't subscribe to everything he does, but I'm fascinated by the topics.

And we can get back to Giants in a second.

I'm just trying to set up that there are forces that want to keep certain things away from us.

There's an initiative right now to have the Smithsonian catalog and make public everything they have there, which I don't think is going anywhere.

The Smithsonian gets very strange.

carve-outs of laws.

There was a law passed not too long ago, which required all museums to return anything that was of value to Native American cultures back to the tribes, especially if it was funeral,

anything that have to do like funeral, whatever it's called,

death rights or whatever, to return all that stuff.

So this law is passed.

The museums have to do all that.

But

specifically, it says line after line, Smithsonian is exempt.

Smithsonian doesn't count.

Smithsonian doesn't have to do any of this.

So they don't have to respond to any of it.

So then we go

back to

Grand Canyon or the Giants.

And

we don't really know.

It's hard to know what's true because

there's over a thousand reports and newspapers of these findings.

But the mainstream narrative is it was giants were cool at the time.

It was hoaxes and

it was just to make money.

but it's just too many coincidences and

there's there's one

there's one giant story that that's interesting that because it overlaps several cultures uh native cultures where you've got them in like the mississippi valley these these they have these indian myths about these giants that are they're cannibals so they're you know they're eating the people and they get driven west by the tribes they unite and drive them west into like nevada and California.

And they end up at what's known as Lovelock Cave.

And the Lovelock Cave giants are famous giants.

They're the red-haired giants.

So the story goes that

they're at war with all these tribes.

And during the war,

when the natives are falling, they're eating them in the battlefield.

So it unites the tribes and they drive them into Lovelock Cave and they seal the cave and they set fire to whole the whole place

and

an archaeologist goes in there and finds

sandals that are like size 29 and these giant just giant clothes that

like I'm not making this part up you can go see this like what why is there a sandal that's this size that are all found in the cave and bones and red hair

but um and all that stuff is then sent back and then it's just gone

and as you know as recently as just maybe like 20 years ago

At some point someone discovered these giant coffins

giant coffins with lids on them and They were sent to the Smithsonian

Was there anything in the coffin?

Not that I'm aware of but they were they were coffins and they were they were big and native cultures didn't do that.

They didn't have coffins or bury their dead.

At least none that I'm aware of.

That was not part of their culture.

So this was very strange.

So those were sent to the Smithsonian.

And then it kind of disappeared.

But then not too long ago, someone picked up in the story and asked the Smithsonian about them.

And they said, we do have a record of receiving that, but we don't know where they are.

And that was kind of the end of it.

And then a few years later, someone else got involved.

I think it was John Tierney.

John Tierney really went after Smithsonian hard.

He wrote a book about like Smithsonian is the greatest cover-up.

So it might have been tyranny that he said, okay, I know that you said you received these.

You can't find them.

I need you to find them.

And they said, okay, we found them.

But they're in a warehouse that's got an asbestos problem.

So no one could go in there.

And he said, well, when can we go in there?

And they said, about 10 years.

And

that was really the last of it.

So the Smithsonian gets wrapped up in all these

weird conspiracies.

There's the Akambaro Akambaro statues, which is very controversial, which is like 3,000 artifacts that show

humans riding dinosaurs.

They show Asians, Africans, you know, races that shouldn't be around there that are carbon dated to 2,500 years ago, 3,500 years ago.

And they're sent to Smithsonian.

Smithsonian said, yeah, these things are 30 years old.

They're a hoax.

But they were independently validated by other labs saying, no, these things are are really, really old.

Somebody's like, no, it's a hoax.

And then as time goes on, all those other labs become discredited.

Like, oh, their techniques weren't modern.

And that's kind of where the Akambara has ended up as far as I know.

Because I don't know if anyone really cares enough to follow up on stuff like that.

I do.

So I kind of want to know, like, what do you have down there?

I think they have

almost a billion artifacts that we can't see.

And I just want to know what they are.

So all those giant bones that were found, okay,

I'm sure 99% of them are hoaxes.

And maybe there's a half a percent that were mastodon bones that were misidentified.

But what happened in Lovelock Cave?

We know stuff was in there because there was a tribal leader, a woman

who became kind of a famous author.

She had red hair woven into like some of her like her traditional garb.

And she said that's from the Lovelock Giants.

Like, where did she get that red hair?

So I'm not saying it's real.

I'm just saying I would like to know

what's the chain of custody

there.

So there's just a lot of those.

I mean,

this all came from biblical stuff, though, correct?

Yeah, so

the biblical giants, you don't see much of them in

like in in the canonical Bible.

The Nephilim are mentioned once, and I could talk about them a little bit.

But we learn more about giants when the Book of Enoch is discovered.

And the Book of Enoch was

discovered when

like an adventurer, I forget when it was, maybe 18th century, was looking for the source of the Nile River, which was kind of a big deal at the time.

And he found it.

And it was somewhere in Ethiopia.

And

he gets to know the locals there.

And they're Ethiopian Jews that have been there for 3,000 years.

So

he's friendly with them.

They take him up to their,

whatever you call it, their church.

And he sees this giant book.

You know, what's like a giant book?

What's that?

He said, that's the Bible.

He said, oh, it's a Bible.

They said, no, no, that's the Bible.

You know, with the King James Bible, I don't know how many books it is, like 66 or something like that, where this had over 100 books.

And in there were,

Book of Enoch, the Book of Giants,

all this other stuff.

So you have have Genesis that starts,

you know,

basically let there be light.

But in this expanded Bible, you have all this stuff that happened before then.

So we know a little bit about Moses from the Bible, but if you read these other books, you learn all about Moses and Enoch and Methuselah,

and these men are all related, you know, and going back this like 10 or 12 generations from Adam, it's all in there.

And this kind of ties in with the pseudo-archaeology and

how mainstream wants you to stay in your lane.

So this book is discovered, and they've had this for thousands of years.

There's the story of the Queen of Sheba.

There's only a little bit about her in the main Bible, but this expanded Bible has the Queen of Sheba going up to meet King Solomon, and she's fascinated by him, and

they fall in love, and she gives him a child named Menelik.

And that ties into the Ark of the Covenant and all that stuff.

So we have that one story, but it's it's kind of an outlier.

It's, you know, it's Ethiopian Jews, which is kind of, kind of strange, but, but legitimate.

But then much later, the Dead Sea Scrolls are found.

And then among the thousands of parchment are, there's the Book of Enoch, copies and copies of it, and the Book of Giants.

So the story is that there's

These sky gods.

And this story, for people who know it, is going to track exactly with the Anunnaki.

It's going to track right with it.

This Bible story is going to track right with it.

So you've got these sky gods and they send watchers down to earth.

And their job is to shepherd and guide humans, teach them animal husbandry and agriculture and all that stuff.

But the watchers become

corrupt and fascinated with human women.

The hecklefish says, uh-oh, that's not going to end well.

And it didn't.

So the

Watchers who

are probably angels, they interbreed with humans.

And then their offspring are the Nephilim.

And the Nephilim are these, they're giants.

And some books, they're 350 feet tall.

They're vicious.

They're, they're violent.

They're, they're cannibals.

And these are the, you know, the unholy offspring of the angels and humans.

Is it angels and humans or demons and humans?

You know, in the earlier books or what's the difference?

You know,

I don't think the books really take a stance

because the watchers are there with good intentions.

But, you know, I think there's lessons in all of that that, you know, anyone could be corrupted.

Certainly Persian women are pretty enough.

The giants now are

ravaging the world and they're just making a mess of things.

And that's when God decides, it's got to stop.

We got to start over.

And then he wipes it away with the flood.

But the book of Enoch expands on all of that and has him, has Enoch going up to heaven to speak to God.

And

that's heresy to say, because heaven's not supposed to be a place.

Like mortal man can't go to heaven.

It certainly can't come back, but Enoch did.

And he was specifically taken there.

I think he was taken there by Uriel

and taken up there in a chariot of fire.

And then Enoch is walking around heaven, but he's describing a place where he's seeing tall beings of light going about their business.

And the walls are covered with how he describes as emeralds that are just blinking lights on and off.

And

he talks about how he can see all the earth, and he describes how he can see how the winds are made and I can see every lake and river on the earth

and when you think of heaven you think of like you know clouds in the sky but Enoch said that there's a roof there's a ceiling and everything is shiny and what it sounds like he's describing is a spacecraft if you read the book like if you read the book through a modern lens it's like this guy is on a UFO is where Enoch is.

So

he's up there and they take him all around the cosmos.

And this is all in the book.

He describes the solar system and

he's told the earth goes around the sun in 364 days, which we weren't supposed to know any of that then in the book of Enoch.

And then he's given a directive from God to go take this message down to the Nephilim and the watchers that, you know, if you don't get your shit together, it's going to get bad down here.

And they ignore the order.

And

that's when the flood comes.

And then only one man is chosen to survive the flood, and that's Enoch's grandson, and that's Noah.

And that's where the Noah's arc story comes from.

But it tracks pretty closely with the Anunnaki story and the cataclysm.

And it tracks a little bit with the epic of Gilgamesh and Utna Pishtim in the flood there.

And a lot of these other stories.

Wow.

That's fascinating.

I think so.

Didn't the

Smithsonian cover up Adam and Eve or something?

Are you talking about the Adam and Eve book?

Yes.

Oh, that's a different one.

So that's a book.

It was released in 1966 by Dr.

Chen Thomas, and it's called The Story of Adam and Eve.

And that story, the title sounds cute until you read it and you realize he's talking about really Adam and Eve.

And the story about the story is it's this this 278-page manuscript that is classified by the CIA.

And

they've removed 200 pages, only like 50 or 60 pages left, and half of those are blank.

And the CIA says it's been sanitized.

And the reason that the CIA was so interested in the book of Adam and Eve is because it describes the end of the world.

And Dr.

Thomas, in the book, talks about pole shifts and what happens when the poles shift.

Something happens to the inner core of the Earth.

Our electrical field gets thrown off.

And when that happens, the poles shift.

And it's something that happens over and over and over again.

And his pole shift is a 90-degree shift.

So Antarctica goes to the equator and the equator goes down south.

Like it's violent.

And as it's shifting, the atmosphere continues to rotate, you know,

west to east.

So that just, he describes in the book, just

walls of water and and this wind and debris just tearing across everything.

Cities are reduced to waste.

He says New York, Boston, Chicago, L.A.

are nothing but memories.

New York is at the bottom of the sea.

And Antarctica is at the equator and becomes, you know, like a tropical land.

And the story is the CIA wanted this suppressed because it would cause chaos and all that.

And that was a story that was recommended that I cover.

And it was one that I got a lot of angry people angry at me because I debunked all of it.

I debunked the whole thing.

That it was never 287 pages or whatever.

It was just 50, 60 pages.

And it was never classified.

What happened was, and they said Chan Thomas was a fake name, but it's not.

His name is Dr.

Chauncey.

Dr.

Chauncey Powers.

Chauncey Powers Thomas.

And the book was never classified.

What happened was he was an engineer at McDonnell Douglas working on anti-gravity and missile guidance and kind of some weird stuff like that.

And his coworkers said he's very intelligent, but just kind of eccentric.

And what I believe happened, because I found the CIA file on him, is they've got the book, but there's also like People magazine and there's a shopping list and there's these like random documents.

And I think it was just he's working on this like top secret, top secret stuff.

He's wacky.

They probably had just an officer just keeping an eye on him.

Like, we just keep a file on him because he's on Johnny Carson.

You know, this is a weird, this is a weird guy.

You know, he's not supposed to do that kind of stuff.

And then,

and the book was never really classified.

He updated it and updated it.

It was never classified.

Then later he writes a book about, he updates it.

He adds angels and UFOs and ESP into the book.

It starts to get kind of wild.

He writes another book about how

to give natural childbirth,

which I thought was strange.

Interesting.

Where were you going with the Vatican?

I wasn't going anywhere.

We could talk about the Vatican.

I'd love to talk about the Vatican.

Man, where do we start?

Where do we start with the Vatican?

The secret archives?

Yeah.

What's in there?

So many rumors about what's down there.

The Vatican Secret Archives, they're down under the Vatican.

They're called the Apostolic Archives.

You can't go there.

I mean, you can.

You can.

People can go to the Vatican archives.

You have to get permission.

It's like a 10 to 15 year wait, and you have to tell them what you want to see before you go.

So, and while you're there, you can't touch anything.

Someone will turn the pages for you and all that.

So you kind of can't go there.

But rumored to be down there is the spear of destiny.

The Ark of the Covenant is supposed to be down there.

The Minority.

What is the Spear of Destiny?

That is the Spear of Destiny or the Holy Lance.

was what the Roman soldier pierced Christ when he was on the cross.

That's the spear of destiny.

That was something that Hitler was very interested in finding.

Hitler was chasing these artifacts

all over the place.

As soon as the Nazis conquered France, they started digging everywhere, like

the Chartrett's Cathedral was where the Ark was supposed to be.

They were digging up everywhere looking for stuff.

It's like Indiana Jones got a lot of those things right.

My favorite object that's supposed to be down there is called the chrono visor.

And this is an object that lets you see through time.

I don't know if you've ever heard of this.

I don't think I have.

So chrono means time, visor means see.

So this is an object that you can see through time.

It was invented by,

his name is Pellegrino Arnetti.

Father Pellegrino Arnetti was,

he was a priest, but he was also a physicist, and he was like an expert at music.

And he was working with,

I think his supervisor's Father Giumlli, who's working at a university or something.

And what they're doing is they're studying Gregorian chants and listening to records and cataloging things.

And they're listening to one record.

And Father Jameli says, I recognize that voice.

And they play it back.

I'm like, well, who's that?

He's like, that's my father.

Like, well, what is he saying?

He said, well, he's talking about leather and prices.

And, well, it turns out his father was like a shoemaker, like a cobbler.

And he heard his father's voice selling somebody shoes.

So they end up isolating these these voices and come to the conclusion that all the objects around us are vibrating with an energy and picking up all the conversations.

Everything we're saying is getting absorbed into everything around us.

And that if you can tune into the right frequency, you can hear that.

And if you can really zero in on it, you can see what's going on.

And Father Ernetti

gets together this group of rock star physicists led by Enrico Fermi, who worked on the Manhattan Project, you know, a heavy hitter, and nine or ten others.

And they build this device called the chronovisor.

And Father Ernetti

goes and he looks back at Mussolini's speeches, and then he goes back further and he's looking at

watching old Roman plays that no longer exist.

And

what really put it on the map was

He took a picture of Christ's crucifixion and released it.

And it was, it's a wild photograph because it's Jesus Christ on the cross.

Wow.

And

so and so he releases that to the public and it hits the newspapers, especially in Italy, like crazy.

I think this was the 60s

and becomes a sensation.

So I covered that story, but

But ended up finding out

that

the Christ in his photograph looks looks an awful lot like a Christ statue that was carved somewhat recently to that era that was in a cathedral in Spain.

And it turned out that that's really what it was:

he had this photograph that

he said he saw Christ, but it was just his photograph of the statue.

And then he backtracked a little bit and he said, well, you know,

this is really the photograph and the statue is based on this, but

that's not what happened.

So we don't.

So the chronovisor is just this legend, but

according to the story,

the Vatican releases a statement at some point that says that anyone who's caught trying to look or listen through time is excommunicated.

And that's kind of how that story ends.

I couldn't find any evidence of that.

Wow.

Man, I thought you were going to, I thought you were going towards, I just watched this episode about this device.

Actually, I saw it on

this.

I can't remember if it was Graham Hancock or

Builders of Ancient Mysteries or something.

Bam.

And they found this device at the bottom of the ocean, supposedly.

You've ruined it for me, AJ.

The antiquothera mechanism?

Is that the thing where they found it?

And it had like all these gears.

None of the watchmakers, like they had Hublow come out, and they were the only ones that were able to replicate it.

And it was supposedly like this, I don't know, 12,000-year-old device or something.

And it perfectly simulated the rotation of the solar system.

Yes, and the stages of the moon and a lot of different things.

It was like

a mechanical almanac is what it was.

That all these phases of the moon.

But

that wound up being bullshit, right?

Not bullshit.

It's, I mean, it's a real thing, and the craftsmanship is amazing.

What's most amazing is that it survived at the bottom of the sea for a thousand years, whatever.

But as they recreated it, they learned that the technology to do this existed.

Watchmakers, they can do this.

It just, not a lot of that stuff survived because it's so delicate.

But this was at the bottom of the sea.

I think it's still fascinating.

I mean, even a thousand years ago to be able to simulate that.

So they did have that technology?

Yeah,

to make gears and do all that stuff, they did.

If you look at, like, Archimedes goes back even further than that and some of the technology he came up with was wild.

I mean the Archimedes screw is still is still used as a way to like get water to flow backwards because it goes up up a screw.

It's like a revolutionary thing.

But he had

he was

famous for creating all these crazy weapons and one of his famous weapons was these giant mirrors that he used to burn the Roman fleet when they were sailing into.

I think he was from Sicily

was Archimedes so

these ancient cultures

they're just way more

intelligent and and than I think we give them credit for

you know which goes back to to the giants and the suppression and if it's not doesn't fit what we know about Egypt then it's wrong and you're an idiot

but our ancestors were were pretty resourceful they made some cool stuff.

Yeah, no kidding.

I mean, back to Stonehenge, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, the pyramids, all that stuff, man.

It's wild.

It's like.

Yeah, the ballback stone, they don't even know how they made that.

What's the ballback stone?

That's in Lebanon.

They just found a third one not too long ago.

I think the biggest one is called the Stone of the Pregnant Woman.

And it's massive.

It's just a big block, and it's dramatic looking because it's kind of laying in the ground at an angle you can only get a sense of the scope if you see a person standing on it because they're like that tall and they don't know how this was quarried because it's perfect and it's it's it's the biggest megalith that we've ever found is this this giant stone they don't know what it was for they don't know who built it or how they possibly could have done it but then they found another stone

and um there's these megalithic structures all over the area that are huge stones they don't know how to put them in place and then they just found a third stone very recently that I think is bigger than the other ones.

Something like 20 million pounds.

Like unbelievable.

Holy shit.

Man, you uncover some wild stuff, too.

It's all rabbit holes.

Man, it's cool.

I love it.

I remember watching this one

where there's these holes in the ground.

And I think it's the northwest, right?

It's Mel's hole.

Is that what it is?

Where this guy was like put fishing line down there.

He could never find the bottom.

Yeah, that's

Ellensburg, Washington.

So do you want me to tell you the story?

Yeah, but do you ever go see this stuff?

No, not really.

Why?

Well, I mean, if I debunk a story, why go see it?

Did you debunk that?

How can I tell you that I haven't told the story yet?

Let's hear it.

All right.

Mel Waters

buys this property in Ellensburg, like the Monastash Ridge in Washington, in that area.

And there's a hole on his property.

And he sees that, like, all his neighbors are throwing all kinds of crap into the hole, like old washing machines and all kinds of stuff.

They're just using it as a dump.

And so he starts doing the same thing.

They're all just throwing stuff in the hole.

And after a while, he wonders, why does this not fill up?

It's very strange.

So he goes over there and he's just kind of, he can't see the bottom.

He can't hear an echo.

And he's out there investigating with his dog.

And he's looking and he looks and his dog won't come close.

Like his dog is like, will not come near the hole.

And he looks up and birds are flying around it.

Like nothing wants to come near this hole.

So he wants to figure out how deep this thing goes.

And he's a fisherman.

So he puts fishing line down there and he's got 5,000 feet and

He doesn't hit bottom.

He does another spool.

He's got 10,000 feet.

He ties lifesavers on the bottom of it to put it down there to see if they'll come dissolved.

Maybe it's a well.

20,000 feet, 50,000.

He hits about 16 miles of line down, and he doesn't hit the bottom with it.

So he.

16 miles of line?

16 miles of line.

16 or 60?

16.

Jeez.

And he notices that.

His radios are acting weird.

He's got, when he's out there working, is listening to his radio, but and when his radio is near the hole, he's picking up these strange things.

Like he's hearing old-time music, which doesn't make sense.

And then he tunes a little bit and he catches a baseball game.

And he listens to that for a minute and realizes it's a game from 30 years ago.

So something is affecting like time around

the hole.

So at this point, he calls into Art Bell at Coast to Coast.

I don't know if you remember Art Bell on that show by the day.

So he's telling Art this story about how weird this this hole is.

He talks about how one of his neighbors, his dog, died, and he threw the dog down the hole.

And the next day, he sees his dog running through the, like through the woods with his collar on, but he won't come.

It's like he acts like he doesn't know him.

Like the hole is, the hole is doing weird stuff in the area.

So he talks to Art Bell a little bit about it.

And then

Art is trying to get in touch with him and can't.

And then finally does.

And Melwater says, I wish I never called you.

He said, so I talked to you and he was out of town for that interview.

He said, I got back into town.

I couldn't get on my property.

He said, there was heavy machinery there.

There was military there.

They wouldn't let me up.

Some guy in plain clothes came down and said, you can't come in here.

I said, why?

This is my property.

He said, there was a plane crash.

So we have to investigate it.

There's no evidence of the plane crash.

There's no news.

And Mel starts to get kind of upset.

It's my property, my land.

And then the guy in plain clothes says, I'm not saying we will, but we could find a drug factory or something on this land.

I'm just, you know, saying that that could happen if you want to press this.

And Mel Water said, you know,

I'll go to the press.

The guy's like, tell whoever you want.

No one's going to believe you.

And it gets run off his property.

And you don't know if it's a hoax or not, but Art Bell talks to a news crew that goes to the property and they find evidence of tractor tracks in the mud and evidence that there was a military presence there along with machinery.

And it's still all blocked off.

Mel is eventually contacted by some intelligence and offered a deal.

$2 million, you leave the country, you never come back.

And you lease us the property or sell us the property.

You just never come back.

So Mel goes overseas for a while.

And this story on Art Bell

is 10 years that he checks in.

So Mel is overseas.

He's in Australia.

And it's something like his niece is graduating.

He wants to come back.

He's not supposed to come back at all.

But he decides to come back anyway.

And he's taking a bus.

He lands wherever, and he's taking a bus.

And there's some type of issue.

breaks out on the bus.

There's a fight or something.

The bus pulls over and everyone gets off, but he's kind of, he's not allowed off.

Like they're holding him back.

They get everyone off.

A couple of guys kind of grab him.

He feels like a pinch and then he blacks out.

And he wakes up 12 days later and he's in San Francisco in an alley

and he doesn't know what's happened for the last 12 days.

And he tastes blood in his mouth and he starts

and he realizes his back teeth are missing.

Like it, it's a crazy story.

And he's telling all this to Art.

And

Art helps him

find a place to stay.

And he says, Art, I just got contacted from

native tribe and

the people who are called the Basque.

I don't know if you know the Basque.

It's a region between France and Spain.

It's a little area.

People call the Basque.

It's a small community, but it's very unique.

So a lot of Basques settled in Nevada in like the 19th century.

So this native tribe is working with the Basque and they call Mel and they want him to come out because they found another hole.

Story gets weirder from here.

So he goes out to like consult with them about the hole and that hole is different.

Mel's hole was about nine feet around,

nine feet wide with a stone retaining wall.

This hole is nine feet, but it's got this metal collar and it's metal all the way down as far as the eye can see.

And it won't vibrate at all like metal drops a tool or something on it and it doesn't make a sound it's very strange

so they don't bother trying to find the bottom of it they just start putting things down the hole to see what happens they start by putting ice cubes down just to see is it hot down there so they put these ice cubes down the hole they pull the ice cubes up and now the ice cubes are hot and

they catch on fire like that they get transformed in the hole story gets weirder and they do that

for a while.

And they actually take ice and some of them are using it to heat their homes.

It's very weird.

So then they say, someone volunteers to go down the hole.

And they're like, no, no, you can't do that.

But they're a shepherd colony.

So they send a sheep down the hole in a crate.

And they send the, and the sheep doesn't want to go.

Animals don't like this thing.

Birds fly around it.

They don't, animals don't want to go.

So the sheep is freaking out.

And they send the cage down at like 1,200 feet and it stops moving.

And they pull it up, and the sheep is dead, but it looks totally fine.

So, it's since it's a shepherd culture, they know how to butcher a sheep.

So, they said, We'll do an autopsy on it, we'll butcher it.

So, they butcher the sheep, and the entire inside cavity of the sheep is gone, and inside is a giant tumor, just like just this

disgusting, huge tumor.

And

they cut the tumor open,

and inside inside is what Mel described as a fetal seal, like the fetus of a seal with human eyes.

And it's looking at them.

And

they kind of just set this seal-looking thing out for a while.

It's looking at, they're looking at each other for a couple of hours.

And then it eventually

kind of inches its way back down into the hole.

And once it does that,

Mel, who had esophageal cancer, is now cancer-free.

Like everyone who is sick in the village is now healed.

And the people there think this is some like divine thing that with this, with this,

they call it a magic seal.

And they believe that it's communicating with them through this radio and like some type of Morse code.

They don't know if it's alien language or not.

And he's telling art that

I've got pictures of this.

I've got recordings of it.

I've got all this stuff, photographs.

And they finally set up an interview to go over all the evidence,

but Mel never shows.

And Art is never able to get a hold of him again.

And that's kind of where the story ends.

And it starts out like a really interesting story, but the theory, at least what I came up with, was

the story just got so, I mean, mean, I left out so many crazy details because how much time do we have?

That the story was getting so out of hand that I don't think he could keep up with the hoax anymore.

And he's just like, I can't, how do you, how do you top magic seal fetus that heals cancer?

So that was a story that I went into just because I liked, you know, I'm a huge Art Bell fan, and that's a classic Art Bell story.

That's, you know, that's one of the top ones.

I wish it had a better ending.

It's so anticlimactic,

but it just was such a fun journey.

And it just, so many opportunities for jokes in there and stuff.

I have a t-shirt on the

it's one of the most popular shirts.

It's um I went to Mel's Hole and all I got was this magic sealed Edis.

I wear it all the time.

So is the hole there?

So people have tried to find the hole and a couple of people have said they found it.

So I was doing some some research.

What was very strange was

the area where the hole was supposed to be on Terra Server,

which is like before Google Maps, was all blacked out.

It was all like redacted, which is very strange.

But later it does show up on Google Maps.

So people tried to, Mel gave a lot of information of

that you could probably find it.

I found one

place that was very compelling.

Because Mel said on his property, he had one building that was kind of falling down from snow.

And I'm looking at the pictures of the property, and that building is there.

And then, right across the way is a hole that's nine feet wide with a stone retaining wall.

And I looked at that, and I'm like, no way

that I, for a second, there, I thought this was Mel's hole,

but it was investigated.

It was just a well, and the property belongs to somebody.

But that's one of those stories where I like debunked it, and then I found the pictures.

I was like, no.

Damn.

yeah

stuff's crazy man i know it's the kind of stuff that i talk about and that's you know sometimes the stories just get weirder and weirder and then they just they just fall down that's that's mills hole just a crazy story with no strong ending damn how do you find these well that was easy to find because as as an art bell fan i can name like the top five episodes that are my favorites you know so males hole is one art bell fans know that one you know they know that one in and out i that's why it's so popular.

Art Bell fans don't know me, but they're like, oh, Mels Hull, I want to hear about that.

So I knew about that one already.

Most of the other stuff, it's either sent into me or it's my brother is into all the weird stuff.

He goes to the UFO conventions and hangs out with

Thomas Jane and Barefoot and talks about UFOs and stuff.

He does all that crazy stuff.

So he'll say, oh, you got to look into this.

You got to look into that.

And I know if it sounds really stupid, that it's going to be a good one

have you looked into bigfoot yeah i looked into it i looked into it um

you know the the the famous part of bigfoot is the patterson film it's it looks pretty good that's it's the one i that i think everyone's seen you see the bigfoot he's kind of walking in the distance it's kind of and he looks back over his shoulder that's that's the patterson film it's pretty compelling but almost every piece of bigfoot evidence is it's been hoaxed yeah

Sounds like the Loch Ness Monster.

Loch Ness Monster also.

I couldn't find any evidence of it.

The famous photos, I debunked all of those.

Yeah, didn't it?

Or was it taken in a bathtub or something?

One of those was.

It was a bathtub.

One was just a boat.

People hated that one.

But Bigfoot's fun because there's native stories that go back a long time that talk about these giant creatures covered in hair, but they lived interdimensional.

So it's like, you're not going to go find them because they can just phase into a different dimension.

which is convenient, but

I'm not a Bigfoot guy.

Those are called cryptids, which are these creatures that are like outside of cryptozoology.

And I don't like cryptid stories.

I do them because people like them.

So I covered like

all weird creatures, whether it's the Jersey Devil or Bigfoot or Chupacabra, all these creatures.

I cover them because people like them.

But the evidence always sucks.

And my show is not like...

When I was starting the channel, looking at these topics, there were two types of channels.

There were the ones that were all in, you know, Darren, right?

Just everything's true.

And it's like, well, yeah, but what about it's like, no, no, no, true.

And then the other stories where you're just

people telling these weird stories, but they're like snarky and sarcastic.

Like it's condescending.

I don't want to name any YouTube creators, but you know who you are.

And that annoys me because that's just making the story about you, about how smart you are.

And I'm stupid because I think this is a cool story.

so there was just that

so i said well why don't i tell the story and make it fun and then if anyone wants to stick around for what i found i'll do that and most people don't

do a damn good job of it as soon as i say but is it true i see the numbers go everyone's like nope don't care

i don't care

oh man what um

If I can ask, you don't have to answer this, but

what do you nine up for the future?

it's really just the conversation end of the of the show that's the next phase is to the studio is built it's called the basement it looks great it's like

what you would imagine would be the basement underneath the wi-fi studio it's just it's kind of kind of old school and and and musty it's super fun it's ready to go All it's just waiting for is me to have the guts to book a couple of people and get to work.

Well, I hope you find it quick.

I really do.

I'm looking forward to that.

I think that's going to be awesome.

Awesome.

Well, AJ,

man, I'm just so thankful that we connected.

I loved this interview.

It's one of my favorite.

Well, thank you for letting me ramble.

Hey, hey, anytime.

You want to come here and ramble?

I'll just come here and shoot.

Hey, we could do that too.

I got a lot more guns than the Winchester lever action and the SIG.

So

I'd love to have you again.

I would.

And maybe at some point I can come check out the new studio.

Please, anytime.

I would love that.

Well, thank you, man.

Good for it.

Seriously.

Keep on my work.

Gossip.

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