#590 - Murdering As A Family - Jonesboro, Arkansas

Transcript

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Speaker 10 Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay, choo-choo!

Speaker 10 Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed.
My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host.
I'm Jimmy Wistman.

Speaker 10 Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today, all aboard the murder train, pulling away from the station because we got some crazy stuff for you as usual today.

Speaker 10 Very strange goings on today and some weird alliances. It's just a real weird case as usual today.
10 pounds of murder in a two-pound bag

Speaker 10 like Express is. Before we get to that, very quickly, head over to shutupandgivemeurder.com.
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Speaker 10 One crime and sports, one small town murder, and you get it all, baby. Every one of them.
This week, what you're going to get.

Speaker 10 For crime and sports, we're going to talk about, we're going to go back to fraternity hazing and do a part two because I feel like we were an hour into it, and I felt like we were two minutes into it.

Speaker 10 I was like, this is crazy. We need another hour with this stuff.
So we'll do that. Then for Small Town Murder, the Lori Vallo Daybell trial that's going on in Arizona where she's representing herself.

Speaker 10 Oh, boy. And oh, boy, is that a party.
Let me tell you.

Speaker 10 I have watched every second of that trial, so we got some real fun stuff.

Speaker 10 We'll show you why it's a bad idea to represent yourself. Don't do that.

Speaker 10 They say anyone who represents themselves has a fool for a client.

Speaker 10 You didn't go to school for that. She proves that rule.
Let me tell you something. That'll be a lot of fun.
Patreon.com/slash crime in sports. And you get a shout-out at the end of the regular show.

Speaker 10 That said, I think it's time. Jimmy, let's sit back.

Speaker 10 what do you say everybody clear the lungs arms to the sky let's all shout shut up

Speaker 10 and give me murder

Speaker 10 let's do this okay

Speaker 10 let's go on a trip yeah shall we let's do it we are going to arkansas this week

Speaker 10 oh boy are we we know it's going to be something crazy when it's in arkansas it always is you guys have some creative murders down there let me tell you

Speaker 10 yeah this is in jonesboro arkansas yeah just kind of a little bit of a bigger town, but not a big city by any stretch of the imagination.

Speaker 10 If you've ever seen any of the West Memphis 3 stuff or any of that stuff,

Speaker 10 not a real big place. This is in Northeast Arkansas.
About an hour and five to Memphis, which is right there. About two hours the other direction to Little Rock.
Sure. It's kind of in the middle.

Speaker 10 And an hour and 20 to Horseshoe Lake, Arkansas, which was our last Arkansas episode, Kill and Let Live,

Speaker 10 which is the one where someone had their family member killed. Then

Speaker 10 ended up taking the murderer in when they got out of jail, and then the murderer killed them too. So it's like, you know, come on.

Speaker 10 Population here, 77,520. And it's bigger than it was at the time.

Speaker 10 Median household income here is low. Normally, it's about $69,000.
Here, it's $48,901. Why is it growing? It's lower.
Yeah, it's because I think

Speaker 10 it's cheaper than Memphis, maybe, is what it is.

Speaker 10 Median home price here, $197,900, which is under $200,000. You don't see that a lot.
Yeah, it's real low. Motto, people, pride, progress.
You bet.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I don't know if any of you that I was going to say. There's a couple words.
There's people there, probably.

Speaker 10 And that other part. Yeah, there's people.

Speaker 10 History of this town here. After the U.S.
acquired Arkansas as part of the Louisiana Purchase, that's when American settlers started making their way around Jonesboro.

Speaker 10 Started out with hunting and trapping and trading with the local tribes and all that kind of thing. Permanent settlement was established here in 1859 when the county

Speaker 10 was established, Craighead County there. Craighead.
Craighead. Yeah, head of Craig.

Speaker 10 The first courthouse was destroyed by a fire in 1869.

Speaker 10 History should just be called old-timey fires. That's what we should do.
Let's go to the old-timey fire section and tornadoes.

Speaker 10 I've got old-timey fire too for second semester. It's going to be good.
Yeah, it's a

Speaker 10 2.0, old-timey.

Speaker 10 That's good. You've got to have that.

Speaker 10 I think it's a prerequisite. I think so.

Speaker 10 You have to have that to graduate. A store across the street from the court was rented.
They've just said, we'll take your store and use that as the courthouse.

Speaker 10 Sit up by the cash register there, the judge. That was destroyed by a fire seven years later.
So that didn't work out either.

Speaker 11 Favorite plastic for your warrant.

Speaker 10 So then another building was constructed on the same site of the second fire.

Speaker 10 and then two years later it burned

Speaker 10 yeah are we sensing a pattern here stop building with wood

Speaker 10 a major fire that destroyed most of jones downtown jonesboro so then they they constructed another courthouse that lasted till 1934 when they just built another

Speaker 10 no no no 1968 yeah f4

Speaker 10 struck Jonesboro. That's the other fire.

Speaker 10 But it's not on fire. It's being blown into the fucking Mississippi.
Maybe if it's on fire and then it's blown while it's on fire, it'll spread it. You gotta at least put the fire out.

Speaker 10 Yeah, 34 people died. Got fire.
Jesus. It struck at 10 o'clock at night.
People going to bed. Sleepy ones.
May 27, 1973, an F4 struck Jonesboro, killing three, injuring 289.

Speaker 10 $60 million in damage in 1973 dollars.

Speaker 10 So that's like, what, 80 billion today? Who knows?

Speaker 10 Then a large, destructive F3 tornado struck them in 2020. Are you sensing a pattern?

Speaker 10 I hate how funny this is.

Speaker 10 And it's so religious there. Do you take a hint that God does not want you there? They don't.
How do you? Literally trying to blow you away from the area. Does not want you there.

Speaker 10 I guess it pushes you the other way where you're like, please, Jesus, stop. I guess.
I don't know.

Speaker 10 This caused severe damage to the mall at Turtle Creek. Yeah.
So the mall's all fucked up. The chess king is full of garbage.
Reviews of this town, because we've never been there.

Speaker 10 I've driven by it. Well, I can't now.
I'm scared to death.

Speaker 10 I just got to check the weather constantly.

Speaker 10 Jonesboro, here's five stars of a review. Jonesboro is a very personal town.
I don't know what that means.

Speaker 10 It is a big town, but the town is small enough to make very personal connections. A lot has changed since COVID-19 and the tornado came through.
The tornado. The tornado.

Speaker 10 That's what they're doing now. There are many changes that took place, but it has helped us to not take Jonesboro for granted

Speaker 10 or too seriously, because it's about to go away. This guy says he's going to continue to support the town as it's rebuilding slowly but surely from this tornado that destroyed them all.
The tornado.

Speaker 10 The tornado. Three stars here.
This is a long one, so I'm just going to read one line of it that's important. A lot of it is just boring.

Speaker 10 Tornadoes will be a constant threat to this area for the majority of the year. So if that scares you, you might reconsider moving here.

Speaker 10 It's all tornadoes. If it doesn't scare you, what the fuck have you been here? What are you doing? Yeah.
Two stars. We're a military family.
We had to move here since my husband became a recruiter.

Speaker 10 We've seen many other places. And let me tell you, for being such a small place, there is more shootings per year than El Paso with half a million population.

Speaker 10 That has half a million, more than five times as many people. Other than that, we can't wait to get out of this mosquito hell and get stationed wherever as long as it's not here.

Speaker 10 Anywhere else. Alaska, great.
I'll buy a parka. Fuck it.

Speaker 10 One star, finally. Mosquito hell.
Mosquito hell. One star.
I've never been to a worse town in my entire life. Wow.
Crackheads are everywhere.

Speaker 10 I've seen villages in Serbia that look better than this trash hall.

Speaker 10 I've been to 16 countries and lived on three different continents, and Jonesboro is one of the most ugliest, most disgusting places I've ever seen. I will never go back there for any reason, ever.

Speaker 10 I'd rather be in war-torn streets. Jesus Christ.
And by the way, because we had a couple people in Wyoming get mad at it. These aren't our reviews.

Speaker 10 We're just reading other people's reviews. It's on the internet.
You can see it. We threw a five-star in there.
We've got to have balance. I don't know.
Things to do here. Local Fest.

Speaker 10 That's literally what it's called. Local Fest.
Come see the locals.

Speaker 10 It says they're going to showcase artists, artisans, businesses, comedians, musicians, and so much more. Oh, those poor comedians in that one.
Poor comics. Oh, boy.
Oh, can you imagine?

Speaker 10 In between two bands with like a magic guy walking around with kids in the crowd. What a fucking nightmare.
But they have a lot of music here. Yeah.
I'll read them off. Lucas Tyler.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 Zach Childers. Yeah.
You know these people? Yeah. Oh, you do? No.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 10 Zach Childers sounds like the,

Speaker 10 that's just a country singer.

Speaker 10 Tyler Childers, he's terrific, but I don't know this guy. Tyler Zach, the same thing.
If I ever hear a country song from now on, I'm going to go, it's Zach Childers. I know that.

Speaker 10 And everyone will go, yeah, probably. It sounds right.

Speaker 10 James Carvel, not James Carville, James Carville. Different guy.
And if somebody calls you,

Speaker 10 just be like, no, no, no. I'm talking about who wrote the song.
The original Zach. It's Zach Childers.
You know. You think this is Luke Bryan, but Zach wrote this.
Zach knows what's up.

Speaker 10 Joe Bateman. That's Jason.
Jason and fucking

Speaker 10 his brother. Zayden G, who's an Elvis tribute artist.
That's one person. One person.
Elvis Tribute Artist. Striding the Blast.
Okay. Okay.
J-Ray.

Speaker 10 Not Ray J. Not Ray J.

Speaker 10 J. Ray.
He did that.

Speaker 10 He made a sex tape with a different kardashi. No blowjobs from anybody.
It's Jay Ray. J-Ray.

Speaker 10 Aaron Walters, Nathan Younger, the last monarchs of fall. Just Jeff.
Is that what it's called? Just Jeff. Hi, I'm Jeff.
Electric Voodoo Explosion. Welcome to Local Fest, everybody.
I'm here.

Speaker 10 Just Jeff.

Speaker 10 Welcome to Local Fest. Here's Jeff.
Just Jeff. Hi, guys.
I'm just Jeff. Play you some songs.
Jack Child, Zach Childers wrote me this one. I think you'll like it.

Speaker 10 That said, let's talk about some murder, everybody. What do you say? Now we have this down-down.
This does not sound great. No.
All right.

Speaker 10 First, let's talk about a man, Mark Despain, or Despain, I guess it is. Probably Despain.
Yeah, D-E-S-P-A.

Speaker 10 D-E-Spain. Right.
Despain.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 10 Despain. He is born April 16th, 1977.

Speaker 10 Parents' names are Jack and Tana. Tana? T-A-N-A.

Speaker 10 Tana, right? I'm going with it. It's probably Tana.
I guess Tana. It's Arkansas.
It's Tana. Tana.

Speaker 10 The sound ah doesn't really exist much. And their mom tried to give her the name Tanya, but she said it real quick.
She got a Y in there or an I or something. She had that epidural kicking.

Speaker 10 She said Tana. Tana, just T-A.
There's an N and something in there. I don't know.
Put it in. I can't feel my toes.

Speaker 10 And it's wonderful. Never felt that.
That I kind of like it. I kind of like it.
Grew up in Jonesboro. He's a 1995 graduate of Nettleton High School.
He was a member of the football team.

Speaker 10 He's a big football star there and stuff. So kind of small town, Arkansas kind of guy.

Speaker 10 Now, he meets a young woman when he's 19.

Speaker 10 He meets an 18-year-old named Michelle Kelly at the time.

Speaker 10 And she is 18, already has a daughter from a previous relationship. At a girl.
So So she's coming into this with

Speaker 10 a child. Through

Speaker 10 Arkansas. Busy.

Speaker 10 When they met, she's 18, he's 19.

Speaker 10 And she's a pretty young lady. Sure.
And

Speaker 10 when he met her, she was sitting on top of a car.

Speaker 10 That's my gal. Which is...
On the roof.

Speaker 10 Dude, and for think about when Mark is born, 1977. So he came up watching like white snake videos.
If you see a chick on a car, that's just hot. It doesn't matter if she's hot.

Speaker 10 It doesn't matter if it's a 70 fucking seven Nova. It doesn't matter.
It's hot.

Speaker 10 Although, license to drive did take all of the mystique of that being sexy out of it. Kind of.
When she was dancing on the roof in her high heels, just

Speaker 10 scratching the motherfucking

Speaker 10 Cadillac.

Speaker 10 He still wanted to fuck her, though, didn't he? He did. You're destroying my grandfather's car, and I still want to have sex with you.
Why? Because you're on top of a car. I don't know what it is.

Speaker 10 I don't know how many circles with your heels on the roof but to be sitting up there forget about it so they start going out before long she's pregnant again oh man she's fertile this one yeah you got to be careful on this and you're leaving it in there oh yeah this is uh not she's making babies yeah this is uh not into which is weird too because at the time we're talking mid-90s i mean it's not like anyone everyone knew about condoms by then yeah yeah they were pretty it's constant yes oh it was if you was watching mtv every other commercial was for safe safe sex and shit.

Speaker 10 It was, for lack of a better term, rammed down your throat. We all knew so much.
There were jokes and movies. They were everything.
That's everything.

Speaker 10 So that is at that point, and in Jonesboro, if you got a girl pregnant, you better marry them. You're about to have a baby and get married.
The last guy didn't take that to heart, but this guy does.

Speaker 10 Mark's, I guess, a decent guy. Spain's a good fella.
So they basically had a shotgun wedding. Yeah.

Speaker 10 Mark and his parents here.

Speaker 10 Now her parents are divorced. Her mom and her dad, Kathy and Carl,

Speaker 10 there. So

Speaker 10 everybody was there and everything like that. Mark's parents bought them a trailer to live in.

Speaker 10 And Mark started working for the family real estate business.

Speaker 10 So they're not poor people, his family at all. So they can help them out a little bit, which helps.
They get married. This is 1996.
They get married and all that.

Speaker 10 Mark, by the way, happy to help raise the daughter from the previous relationship. Doesn't care.
Says, that's all. We're all one family here.
This is us, yeah. So they end up having two sons.
Oh, boy.

Speaker 10 These two here, the one that was from the beginning of the marriage, and they have another one a couple years later.

Speaker 10 Now, after a few years, Mark and his family start having business problems. Sure.
Meaning, not that the business is going bad, but they are fighting about the business. Oh? Yeah.

Speaker 10 He worked for a number of years with his parents, but had a big argument with them. So he leaves to start his own.
Yeah. He wanted a bigger slice of the money.
He's going to compete.

Speaker 10 He's going to, well, I think he's going into something slightly different, too. But he wanted a bigger slice of cash, and Jack said no, his dad.
And then that was that.

Speaker 10 The mom here said the fight really began between Michelle and Jack, not Mark and Jack. Oh.
But Mark stood up for his wife, and that put pressure between him and his dad. Yep.
She's right.

Speaker 10 You're screwing my husband over. And she said, What? He said, Who the hell are you? Say anything.
And she said, That's my wife. That's who it is.

Speaker 10 The lady that wants to be the foundation under the house. That's who I am.
You know the argument. Yeah.

Speaker 10 The lady who'd like to be on a fucking concrete slab.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 10 So I guess that was a big deal. And the mom said that when Michelle said something, then the dad just flipped out,

Speaker 10 flipped off the handle and really had a freak out about the whole thing. So he said, okay, I'm starting my own real estate appraisal and investment business with his wife, he said, with Michelle.

Speaker 10 So Jack was like, good, fucking fine with me. You do your own thing.

Speaker 10 Now, Jack later said, my wife and I both wanted to be separated from Mark and Michelle as far as the business business was concerned. They were tired of it there.
So Mark does his own thing.

Speaker 10 Michelle helps out. She's like the bookkeeper and does paperwork and all that kind of shit.
Apparently, Mark had some balls. Yeah.
Everybody said. He bought some trailer park.
Oh.

Speaker 10 That was, everybody was like, that's a huge piece of shit. What are you guys, what are you, the hell are you doing? And he ended up flipping it and making about $100,000 in profit.

Speaker 10 So people were like, okay. Piece of shit, what? Well, look, he knows what he's doing.
So he figured out how to do that and how to flip things, and that's what he was doing.

Speaker 10 So he starts making a shitload of money. Yeah.
Starts doing really, really well. They move out of the trailer.

Speaker 10 They move into an absolutely beautiful, nice, big four-bedroom home with a big swimming pool. And, you know, whole deal.
I mean, American dream shit there. They go from the trailer to a big house.

Speaker 10 Not only a foundation, a basement. Yeah.

Speaker 10 You can go underground. Hole underground.
That's for when that F3 comes through. And then another one to swim in.

Speaker 10 Got many holes, my friend. Got many.
Bought me a couple of holes today. Smart man, he figured out you can sell shit and still make money off it.
Walmart's done it for fucking 50 years.

Speaker 10 You have to find underpriced,

Speaker 10 undervalued assets and you can flip them to

Speaker 10 make money. It's like people do on eBay or whatever.

Speaker 10 It's all kinds of stuff. Yeah, they do that with everything.
People have, they go out to thrift stores and just buy crap. I can make $2 on that and $3 on that.
All of a sudden, I got $5.

Speaker 10 Yeah, look at that. So they ended up, they're working very hard, Michelle and Mark.
And apparently, you know, the material things are

Speaker 10 aplenty. We're buying them.
They're flowing. The kids get anything they want.
They're swimming in the pool and, you know, all that kind of shit. They go on multiple vacations a year.

Speaker 10 And they're not going to like, you know, hot springs. They're going to Jamaica and Cancun and shit like that.
Several times a year.

Speaker 10 Yeah, real vacations and islands and people that don't want you there and shit like that.

Speaker 10 For a couple of weeks a year, each time. Yeah, like a week here, a week there.
It's a lot. lot.
So there's an incident that happens known as the incident to these people.

Speaker 10 It's the tornado. No, no, no.
This is different.

Speaker 10 Yeah, this is a tornado that goes through their life.

Speaker 10 Apparently, Mark and Michelle

Speaker 10 found topless photos of Michelle's teenage daughter. Nope.
Okay.

Speaker 10 On

Speaker 10 Grandpa Jack's cell phone. What the? That's the accusation.

Speaker 10 So, yeah, that was a big deal. Michelle would later say he just immediately stood up for Brooke and stood up for me.
Brooke is this daughter.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 Tana ends up, or Tana, whatever Tana, ends up leaving Jack over this. Really? Yeah, she leaves Jack, ends up that she ends up coming back to him because it was learned later on, it was found out that

Speaker 10 apparently Brooke had borrowed Jack's phone and the pictures were selfies. She took them herself.
She took them herself on his his phone.

Speaker 10 She didn't realize it. She didn't remember.
No, no. Apparently, she had taken the photographs of herself and was sending them to a boy.

Speaker 10 From grandpa's phone? From grandpa's phone. What the fuck, Brooke? She didn't have her own phone.
So

Speaker 10 that's how she was sending them away. So then they blamed.
Jack. Yeah.
And I guess it came out that she said, I was sending them to a boy. It ended up coming out.
Oh, so she probably had some guilt.

Speaker 10 And then it was like, now grandpa's. Broke up the family.
Yeah, now Christmas is. You're not even related to these people, by the way and you've already so

Speaker 10 and that's that's a just a messy situation a teenage girl i mean who the hell knows what was going on so they said there was never any charges filed in that case and um now tanna ended up going back to jack and saying it looked like a cruel plan cooked up by michelle to try to so but that that would

Speaker 10 that would mean that michelle went to her teenage daughter and said listen first of all get your tits out yeah number one you got a friend second of all is there any boys that you'd like to see those?

Speaker 10 Well, here's what you're going to do.

Speaker 10 Use this. Which would be maybe the worst parenting move I've ever heard of, possibly.
I mean, close.

Speaker 10 But what this also sounds like to me is

Speaker 10 they already don't like her. That's part of it.
That is very evident. Oh, yeah.
And boy, is it

Speaker 10 prevalent? They don't put it past her to do that.

Speaker 10 That's how low

Speaker 10 they think of her. So, yeah.
And then Tana later on said, we found out later that Michelle had just decided to put put Brooke up to doing that so that it would draw a wedge between us and the family.

Speaker 10 That is a

Speaker 10 big accusation. It would make more sense that the kid was just trying to do it.

Speaker 10 If she did it from one of her parents' phones, she thought they might find it and figured Grandpa Jack doesn't know shit about phones. Yeah.

Speaker 10 That's kind of. And she probably

Speaker 10 Occam's razor anyway. She probably just deleted the messages and didn't even think about the camera, the phone.
The picture's still staying in the camera. Who knows?

Speaker 10 Teenagers, their brains aren't formed all the way. So this is what happens.
They're not good at this. Or she she forgot to delete it.

Speaker 10 So we don't put them in charge of anything because they'll forget things. They can't even be in charge of their own goddamn lives.
No, no, not at all.

Speaker 10 So apparently, the father and son, though, never spoke to each other again after that. Jack's done with them.
Yeah, and he's done with Jack. He thinks, yeah, so it's a big deal.

Speaker 10 So either way, Michelle is telling him that this is what happened, and who knows?

Speaker 10 So Michelle here by the 2000, the late aughts here, 08, 09, 10, she's working at a local bank in addition to helping Mark with his business. Now you go,

Speaker 10 why is she working? Yeah. If they're doing so well.
Because they're not. Because they're not.
Because it's real estate.

Speaker 10 Oh,

Speaker 10 2010. Banking is not a good time to be in either.
Well, if you're a teller, I guess it's why I wouldn't want to be investing in anything. No.
But for the real estate business, that's tough times.

Speaker 10 Yeah, not easy. So now Tana said originally about Michelle before the whole Brooke debacle, I liked her.
And as their children began to come along, I thought she was a good wife and a good mother.

Speaker 10 Yeah. And that was before.

Speaker 10 But she said, he always worked hard, whereas Michelle spent money hard. That's what Tanna said.
But Mark would tell me he liked them to speak. He liked being able to provide.

Speaker 10 I work hard so that we can have a nice time. It feels good to buy your family ship.
It does. It feels good to be able to provide things.

Speaker 10 So Tana said she liked to buy things for the kids, and it was always extravagance, including vacations at resorts. She said sometimes three and four times a year to Cancun or Jamaica.

Speaker 10 Every three months? That's too much. That's a lot.
That's a lot. I don't know who the hell you think you are vacationing like that.
That's Chris.

Speaker 10 That's just arrogant, isn't it?

Speaker 10 Every 90 days you're in another country? That's like you may as well just live there. And that's what she wants to do.

Speaker 10 She wants to be an expat and live somewhere opulent. She just wants to call it an exotic.
They both do. They want to bring me food and drinks.
They take vacations.

Speaker 10 The two of them, they want to take the kids.

Speaker 10 Tana said the more money that Mark made, the more things she wanted. She liked to associate with people who had money.
She liked to rub elbows with bigwigs. Why? She was into it.
I don't know.

Speaker 10 It made her feel important.

Speaker 10 It's the last thing I want to do. But some people like to be like, oh, I'm in with the important people who they deem important.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 the problem is there's around 2010 and all that, 2011, money troubles are coming up big.

Speaker 10 Apparently, he went to Michelle's mother to borrow some money to get gifts for them and stuff because he didn't have any money.

Speaker 10 And she said he was kind of embarrassed to have to come to get money because usually he has a lot of money, but he needed to buy Michelle a birthday present.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 it was bad stuff. A lot of Mark's rental properties were

Speaker 10 upside down in value. The banks are closing in on shit.
Tenants are being forced out of the homes because they can't afford to pay the rent.

Speaker 10 So it's a lot. So

Speaker 10 he's kicking a lot of people out, pissing off a lot of people, by the way, as you can imagine. Yeah, the guy who's booting everyone out is not a popular guy.
No. So that's a lot.

Speaker 10 Now, Wednesday, August 24th, 2011.

Speaker 10 All right. Here's Michelle's day.

Speaker 10 Went to work at the bank. She ended up going out to lunch with Mark that day.
And then coming back to the bank by like 1.30.

Speaker 10 And then at 2.30, she takes off, telling the people at the bank she had to go home that afternoon to pick up some bills that needed to be paid. She's off early, then.
She's taking off early.

Speaker 10 Well, whether she's off early or not, she's going home.

Speaker 10 She's going.

Speaker 10 So she got home. She said there's no lights on in the house at all.
Yeah, 2.30 in the afternoon. And what lights are you leaving on when you go?

Speaker 10 So she said the house was completely ransacked. They were just.
torn apart.

Speaker 10 All the drawers were open. All their shit was thrown on the floor.
It was like clothes in the bathtub. It was a very weird thing.

Speaker 10 Broken glass everywhere, she said, all throughout the house, crunching glass as she walked around.

Speaker 10 A jewelry box had been opened in the bedroom, you know, shit strewn about. So she walks all through the house.
Then she gets to the kitchen. And on the kitchen floor is Mark.
Oh. Very dead.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 And very bloody. Oh.
Two gunshot wounds. Oh, no.
Not looking good at all. And Michelle said she shook his leg and said, Mark, and he didn't respond, you know, because he's got holes in his head.

Speaker 10 And then she freaked out.

Speaker 10 So that's what she said. She said that, quote, and he was laying on the floor and there was blood coming all out from behind him.
And I shook his leg and said his name.

Speaker 10 And I looked around and there was stuff on the floor everywhere. And I got scared.
And I put it together. This is not good.
This is bad. I should leave.
So she ran outside and called 911.

Speaker 10 She told the 911 operator she doesn't know if there's someone in the house and she's afraid for her own safety. So they told her to stay out of the fucking house, obviously.

Speaker 10 So she calls 911 and does all of that. Then she goes and bangs on a neighbor's house to try to get into their house.
Nobody answered.

Speaker 10 So she called her mother, Kathy, and then Kathy came to be with her. And then basically, everybody ends up in the yard pretty soon.

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Speaker 10 Police get there, and that obviously looks like a burglary that went bad.

Speaker 10 Maybe somebody can't pay their rent. Perhaps.

Speaker 10 So there's one gunshot wound to the left side of his chest and one in his head. Both shots from close range.
Shotgun? No, no. Just gunshot.

Speaker 10 A handgun. Yeah.
Pistol. So they said there appeared to be one gunshot wound to the left side of his chest through his shirt and a second bullet wound in his head.
That was the kill shot.

Speaker 10 It was inflicted from very close range after he'd fallen to the floor. Oh, from the first shot.
Yeah, so he went down, and they came over, finished him off.

Speaker 10 He said the detective said, I refer to it as an execution style, almost directly between his eyes. Is that how you refer to it? A lot of people refer to it.
I was going to say,

Speaker 10 I came up with this term. I just coined a real nice one.
Listen, it's called. I think it's kind of clever.
I think people are going going to pick up on it. I don't know.

Speaker 10 I like to say. I like to say this.
It's fun to say.

Speaker 10 But directly between the eyes. So that means he was probably still alive and had to see it coming.
Saw it. Yeah.
Which is pretty

Speaker 10 cold. Yeah.

Speaker 10 So they said Mark not only went all the way to the kitchen, but they noticed that on the kitchen table, there is ice cream sitting there melting and his cell phone right next to the ice cream.

Speaker 10 About to have some ice cream. About to have some ice cream.

Speaker 10 So, which is funny because that, not funny, but if you follow the OJ case really closely, Nicole Brown Simpson had some Hagen-Das melting in there when this all this happened.

Speaker 10 So, it just made me think of that. So, they said, they looked all around, and the cops said that the weird thing is that, like,

Speaker 10 TVs, computers, all that stuff, not touched. All left alone.
All that's left alone. All that high-ticket item shit is all left alone.
They're easy to move, less traceable. Yeah, that's what I mean.

Speaker 10 So, they look at that and they're like, huh, that's interesting.

Speaker 10 The fact that his keys, cell phone, and ice cream are right on the counter and the fact that he and his wife had went out and gotten ice cream and he brought that home says that they think that it's probably he walked in, got ambushed, and was totally off guard.

Speaker 10 Just put his shit down like a normal thing and somebody was there and popped out.

Speaker 10 So they're looking at the burglary and Detective Vic Brooks said, when I first walked in, I noticed there were some papers that appeared to be knocked on the ground and there were some broken glass and stuff like that on the floor.

Speaker 10 So they said that you know the jewelry case was toppled over like somebody was looking for something.

Speaker 10 But as they look at the items that have been left behind like the computers and TVs and all that thing and it's just a weird thing too. And it's very personal in the forehead type thing.

Speaker 10 It's real strange. So then they said that they believed that it wasn't a burglary and instead a planned attack

Speaker 10 because somebody

Speaker 10 attacked him before he even got the ice cream put away. So they got him right then.

Speaker 10 Probably if it was a burglar, they might hide for a little while or something. They're not going to be like, as soon as this guy walks in, I'm going to shoot him.

Speaker 10 That's a lot. So they believe the person was already inside the house when he got home.
Had to be. And it said it looked like whoever entered the home that day was not there to steal, but to kill.

Speaker 10 So what do you do? And the kill had to, nothing was broken or anything, but before. They did it after.
Yeah, probably. Or we might have broke it up beforehand.

Speaker 10 Probably after because you wouldn't want him to notice it.

Speaker 10 So police go around and question all the neighbors on the street, and they are informed of two separate sightings that they thought were odd in the neighborhood.

Speaker 10 One is a black guy.

Speaker 10 I don't know if that's that or if it's just a black guy. They said they had never seen this particular black guy on the street before that day.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 they also saw a blue Mercedes that appeared to be circling the neighborhood.

Speaker 10 Separate things. Black guy walking, Mercedes circling.
So they were trying to figure that out. So they go, okay, that's something to put on the shelf for later.

Speaker 10 It's just somebody somebody they was seen in the neighborhood. So they try to establish, does he have any enemies? So many.

Speaker 10 And they're told by a shitload of people, fuck yeah, I hate that guy. Fuck that guy.
Like, he's got a lot of enemies. A lot of people told them that he was a ruthless, ambitious businessman.

Speaker 10 He'll kicks people out of his places. And I mean, he's just, he's an ambitious guy.
He's a businessman. It's a tough way to be, but it's the only way to be.
Doesn't make any fucking friends though.

Speaker 10 It's when you're dead on the floor, people go, I didn't like him either. That's not great.
I mean, a lot of people probably, yeah. So the day of

Speaker 10 this whole thing,

Speaker 10 they don't, they only speak to Michelle briefly at the crime scene just to say, you know, you came in, what time, and to do all of that.

Speaker 10 But the detective said, you're speaking with an individual who's just lost her husband. At that time, she was upset.
So I waited until the following day to conduct a formal interview with her.

Speaker 10 But they do a lot of other shit putting together before that. So they retrace Mark's steps because he wasn't supposed to be home at that time, at that day.
Oh.

Speaker 10 It's not a time when he always comes home. It's not like you could watch him and find a pattern.
This was an aberrant thing.

Speaker 10 He could have surprised somebody. So that, or they're thinking either that he surprised somebody who thought he would be gone, or this would be a person who knows

Speaker 10 exactly where he is, even when he's not supposed to be somewhere. They know.
So that would be someone very close to him. So one or the other.
Either it's a film that's not a problem.

Speaker 10 It's either somebody incredibly far or somebody incredibly close to him. Incredibly close, yeah.
Can't be in between. Either real diabolical or just terrible luck for a burglar.
One of the two.

Speaker 10 And him, obviously, more.

Speaker 10 So Michelle told police that she met him for lunch that day. They went to a place close to the bank where she worked.

Speaker 10 She said she was back in her office by 1:30 and then left at 2.30 again to get some bills, and that's when she found Mark.

Speaker 10 And that is all corroborated by security camera footage and all that kind of thing. So does anyone hate Mark? They asked her.

Speaker 10 Who really hates Mark?

Speaker 10 Not just, oh, he got an argument with some guy at the gas station who hates him and her answer is his father true that's one a is it the father so she said i mean i hate to think his dad would do anything like that because it's it's his son but he is just very very cold-hearted meaning the father she said that jack's just a cold-hearted guy she told them there'd been some trouble due to an incident yeah that happened between a 13 year old brooks oh jesus at the time

Speaker 10 wow that's awkward. 13.
That's yeah, that's crazy. Who found him? You know what I mean? Did he find him? God damn.
I don't know. I'd be horrified.
Where did the wife find him? Fuck.

Speaker 10 That's a lot.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 now, Michelle's father, they talked to him too, because Michelle's father works for Mark as a rent collector.

Speaker 10 So they talked to him. And do you know anybody that would, you know, the business people? Do you know anyone that would hate him? And he said, this is Carl Kelly, the dad, Carl Dwayne Kelly.

Speaker 10 He said that

Speaker 10 Jack, that's the guy. It's Jack.
He said, I've heard him threaten him in the past.

Speaker 10 He said, yeah, if I was going to point a finger at anybody, if that's what you're asking, I'd point it at Jack.

Speaker 10 That's what he said. He said, he's told Mark he's the devil himself.

Speaker 10 Hisself. He's the devil's advocate, which is not the devil.

Speaker 10 The devil's advocate's a totally different person.

Speaker 10 He's told him that more than once, and he believes that. Oh, Carl Dwayne.
Carl Dwayne.

Speaker 10 He said, Jack told Mark, I will ruin you and your family. I've heard him say that.
Yeah. Well, that means you, motherfucker.
You're part of it. Yeah.

Speaker 10 He said, I went deer hunting with him and everything else. He treated me real well, talking about Mark.
He said, Mark was nice to me. And he said, yeah, Michelle said the same thing.

Speaker 10 He's got a really good relationship with my family, just not his own family.

Speaker 10 So they said,

Speaker 10 you know, they keep looking around. And then everybody they talk to, multiple people, five, six people,

Speaker 10 said the same thing. They said, yeah, Mark told me that if anything ever happens to me, look at my dad.
He's the one who did it. My dad did it.
So they're like, hmm, all right.

Speaker 10 He calls me Kiana Reeves. It's so weird.
Such a strange thing.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 detectives talk to Jack, obviously. They're going to interrogate Jack, and Jack says we fell out over money and business shit and all that kind of thing.

Speaker 10 And that's what it was, and due to Michelle always. And Jack told police they should look into Michelle's movements the day his son was killed because he believed that she's involved in some way.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 10 Points like some deflection, pointing fingers at each other.

Speaker 10 He told police that his son returned home that day to get a bow for hunting and Michelle would have been the only person who knew he was home. So there you go.

Speaker 10 Now, he also said, quote,

Speaker 10 he was hard-nosed, my son. He was not a very good people person.
As long as he could get that dollar out of you, he'd turn around and crap on you and walk away. You know, that's the way he was.

Speaker 10 Good kid. Nice guy.
I raised him well.

Speaker 10 Me and his mother raised him right. We're very proud.
Turn off the old piece of shit.

Speaker 10 Turn off the old log.

Speaker 10 Here, turn off the old log, my friend. The detectives are taken aback that

Speaker 10 this is their son. His son was killed that day.
Yeah. And he's saying this.
They're like, Jesus, dude. They said you would do it.
And you're kind of telling us. Nobody likes my son, including me.

Speaker 10 That you would do it. And then he tries to, Jack then says, I think Carl was in on it.
Oh, CD. Yeah, meaning the father-in-law there.

Speaker 10 And my suspicion is that, you know, he did finally piss off Carl enough that he actually done something like that. That's, once again, I'm not trying to point the finger.
That's just a concern.

Speaker 10 That's what Jack says. I'm not trying to point any fingers at somebody that just gave you their name.
I'm just saying a guy probably murdered someone. Not accusing him of nothing, though.

Speaker 10 You know what I'm saying? If you're looking for a murderer, I'd investigate. Carl Dwayne.
That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 10 And I don't want to point fingers.

Speaker 10 That's exactly what he said.

Speaker 10 Not trying to point me.

Speaker 10 Wow.

Speaker 10 Jack tells the detectives that Mark was constantly rude to Carl. He said, I have seen him personally, how he had just treated him like a dog.

Speaker 10 He said, Carl's told me that he's going to kill me personally, but he's also told my son that, you know. Then why does he still work for him? That's the thing.
Why would Mark have it?

Speaker 10 We heard that about you.

Speaker 10 Jack claims also an angry Carl even waved a gun around one time. Oh.
He said, quote, and, quote, and said, I'll just kill your ass right now, and had the gun pointed right at me.

Speaker 10 And he also blames Michelle. He said, I know how he treated her pretty much like he treated his father-in-law.
Does she have anything to do with it? That's another slight suspicion of mine.

Speaker 10 Not trying to point any fingers.

Speaker 10 Now.

Speaker 10 Not trying to say nothing about that. I'm just giving you exact names and facts.

Speaker 10 That's all it is there. Not pointing any finger.
But I know investigator. So they look into the incident, by the way.

Speaker 10 Jack told police that Brooke had been sexting her boyfriend and Jack found the photos and threatened to tell her parents, but she told them instead and said that Jack had taken the photos

Speaker 10 and that were on the phone. What the fuck, Brooke? And that's when that started.
She tried to minimize

Speaker 10 and realize that she was maximizing. Yeah.
And also that they're selfies, too. Yeah.
So that didn't work either. So much worse.
So when all that came out, it ended up that Tana ended up moving back.

Speaker 10 And Jack said at that point, he said he was just

Speaker 10 fucking, you know, his life was a mess. He said, I could have opened up my own whiskey store.
I think there's that much whiskey. Oh, that he was drinking.
Drinking.

Speaker 10 I drank too much, and typically I don't drink. Well, that was just to kill the pain because everybody assumed that you're abusing your own granddaughter.
Oh, my God. That was horrifying.
Poor Jack.

Speaker 10 So they said, did this maybe drive Jack to take some revenge against these people now? It's a pretty, yeah, pretty easy jump. Jack said, no, he wanted to reconcile with Mark.

Speaker 10 I'd rather drink and take it out on me. Yeah, he said, I'd want to reconcile with Mark.
And also, Jack said,

Speaker 10 that whole afternoon, I was miles away at my own house. And the alibi is checked out.

Speaker 10 People,

Speaker 10 you know, they're going to check that out. But other family members came down to the police station and said, don't be fooled by Jack's tears.
He's a violent guy.

Speaker 10 What is going on? Yeah, so that's a lot.

Speaker 10 That's a whole lot. So, police check out his alibi, and it turns out he was where he says he was.

Speaker 10 His alibi checked out, he was fixing his roof at home, which is the best thing to be fixing when you need to be seen because everyone in the neighborhood sees you. You're on top of it.

Speaker 10 You're standing in the chimney house

Speaker 10 making all kinds of noise. Your neighbors hate you about it.
Fucking, yeah. That's the most.
Oh, he was roofing.

Speaker 10 Trust me, because I was trying to take a fucking nap and just caught tap, tap, tap, tap. I was trying to watch Wapner.

Speaker 10 Fucking taking this whole thing. Judge Judy didn't like it either.

Speaker 10 So he also said, I didn't feel anything as being fake from him. He appeared to be a broken man at the time, the detective said also about Jack.

Speaker 10 So now they have to widen their investigation because Jack himself didn't do it. He was on the roof.
Maybe he hired somebody, but he himself wasn't there.

Speaker 10 So, and if you were going to have somebody murdered, you'd probably go on your roof and start hammering that day. That's a great plan.

Speaker 10 Yeah, that's like you might go into, that's like when people will go to a store to be seen on the surveillance footage walking around.

Speaker 10 So it's very weird. So Jack, they said he had just lost his son.
So the detective said he was convinced that Jack's grief was genuine.

Speaker 10 They said, he said from all the interviews and everything that I've done over the years, it was very obvious that Mr. Despain was representing and showing true sadness.

Speaker 10 Just being honest. So he's the first one to be cleared as a suspect.
Right.

Speaker 10 When they verify everything where he was. So then they turn their attention to Michelle because they have to interview her anyway.

Speaker 10 And they find out from asking around that they weren't exactly such a perfect couple after all. Number one, there are two insurance policies on Mark,

Speaker 10 each one of them for $500,000. So there's a million dollars at stake here on one guy.

Speaker 10 She didn't say that at first.

Speaker 10 Then

Speaker 10 they said that they found out that not only that,

Speaker 10 Michelle has been having an affair with somebody from the bank. What? Yes, for quite a long time.

Speaker 10 By the way, a 24-year-old guy from the bank. Wow.
Yeah, she's like 34.

Speaker 10 So she's going out and getting some live colours. Wow.

Speaker 10 So not only was she having an affair with him,

Speaker 10 she also paid his rent and bought him groceries and anything else, his car insurance. She was paying for this guy.

Speaker 10 He's doing great, evidently. Got a gumar on the side over here.
She's got, this is like a mob guy with his second wife here.

Speaker 10 That young man cracked the Da Vinci coat. That's genius.
Yeah, I guess so. I think once people start coming up dead, I'm running away from the situation.
Oh, shit. You don't want the married one.

Speaker 10 You just want an older lady to take care of you. That sounds great.
Wow. So the detective said, Michelle told me that she was having an affair with a coworker, a young man.

Speaker 10 I believe he was 24 at the time.

Speaker 10 Mark did not know about this. Oh.
So they said that the detective said she was paying his rent. She paid for him to move, bought him groceries.

Speaker 10 And Michelle said in her interview here, I gave that guy, that young guy, a lot of money.

Speaker 10 So they also found out that Michelle, they thought she was swindling money from the real estate business as well, too. Yeah, she's got bills.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 And Tana said they were in a tremendous amount of debt. I'm talking over $2 million.

Speaker 10 Oh, my God. A lot of debt.
And the detective said, looking at the books and everything, it appeared they were living well beyond their means.

Speaker 10 They were just spending money like they were still making it

Speaker 10 before the, you know, the market fell apart.

Speaker 10 So so they said that this was causing a lot of friction at home and then the detective said i believe that mark had finally become a little bit suspicious as to the events as they were happening michelle told the cops that mark did not know about the affair but the cops wonder if that's true or not or did he find out

Speaker 10 so um they ask him they ask her did mark ever ask you for a divorce recently or anything like that

Speaker 10 And they said, Michelle, did Mark ask you for a divorce recently? And she said, he didn't ask me for a divorce.

Speaker 10 what did he ask you for what is that yeah that's what i mean if someone says that i go what am i what where where

Speaker 10 what lines am i reading between here because that's not no what bullshit are you trying to pull so the detective obviously got the same shit and he said well what did he tell you yeah and she said that he didn't know if we would stay married after the kids were grown

Speaker 10 oh okay which is i mean that's we're growing a pull that's not i'm filing papers yeah that's i don't want to ruin the kids lives i don't want to upend anything let's just keep it together till they graduate, and then we'll just go our separate ways.

Speaker 10 That's all.

Speaker 10 Have adult kids with divorced parents. That's the thing all the time.

Speaker 10 Well, once they're gone, they're adults, and that's not our

Speaker 10 fault anymore. Listen, you grew up without psychological damage.
Now you deal with it.

Speaker 10 Go have your own children. Therapist is that way.
Enjoy. You can pay for it too now because you're because you got your own insurance.
But you get your own kids.

Speaker 10 You can make your own fucking traditions. You don't need to come to mom and dad's house.

Speaker 10 So she said that he hadn't, but he also told her that he couldn't see the future. So they also discover here, they find out that about all the debt and everything.

Speaker 10 Yes, that's like the worst thing you could say to somebody.

Speaker 10 We're not going to, yeah, that's right. Yeah.
What are we going to do? Sit here and stare at each other for the next 10 years until they go. It's so bad.
So she

Speaker 10 ended up getting a million dollars in life insurance out of this. Yeah.
So the but the police don't have any evidence against her or anything else.

Speaker 10 Surveillance footage from the bank where she worked confirmed exactly what she said. She was at the bank bank when this happened.

Speaker 10 Michelle met her father, Carl, at the bank right around the time they think the murder was happening. And Michelle, the surveillance footage confirms that.
So that's, you know, I mean, what do you do?

Speaker 10 Also, what does that do for her? A million dollars puts her still a million in debt. Well, if he's dead, there's probably some of it that's wiped.

Speaker 10 Yeah, it's probably, well, a lot of it's the business. Oh, the business is in debt.
That's not, that's not.

Speaker 10 Yeah, that's why you LLC yourself. So to avoid that.

Speaker 10 So Michelle's neighbor here

Speaker 10 said that that they thought it was odd that she was standing calmly in the middle of the lawn after her husband was shot. They said that she was just talking on her phone.

Speaker 10 They said she didn't appear to be grieving at all.

Speaker 10 It wasn't like she was like, you know, running around asking for help and all that kind of thing. Mark's sister said, I think what bothered me the most was how clean she was.

Speaker 10 Like her hair was still perfect. Her nails were still perfect.
What would you, and they said, well, what would you have expected in an interview?

Speaker 10 And she said, oh, well, as brutal as it sounds, I don't know, some blood underneath her fingernails or something like that, where she tried to get down to try to help him.

Speaker 10 You know, grab him and see if he's okay. Not just kicked his foot.
Shake a pant leg, shake a fucking Docker fucking leg real quick. It looks like you have a headache.
Oh, no, and then run away. Yeah.

Speaker 10 All right. Then an anonymous tip comes in.
Here we go. Okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 Someone who has nothing to do with any of these people called up and said that they know a guy who has been bragging around that he's the guy who killed Mark. Oh.

Speaker 10 Okay, so they're like, okay, who the fuck is that? So the guy they say did this is Terence Odell Barker, known on the street as Quaylo. Really? Quaylo.
Yeah. Old.

Speaker 10 Close. Nope.
So they bring in old Quaylo for questioning here, and he denies being involved in Mark's death.

Speaker 10 And he said, I suppose, quote,

Speaker 10 I suppose to been shot a motherfucker. I didn't shoot no motherfucker.

Speaker 10 So if you didn't shoot no motherfucker, you know, that's whatever.

Speaker 10 So the police go, well, we have evidence against you because when we got your picture and showed it to all the neighbors, you're the black guy they said was walking around the neighborhood.

Speaker 10 You don't live anywhere fucking near there. You don't have any reason to be there.

Speaker 10 So what's up with that? And they said, as a matter of fact, your cell phone records also, the towers say that you were right by his house. You were there.
You don't know this guy.

Speaker 10 So why are you there?

Speaker 10 They said also that you were seen in a blue Mercedes right before

Speaker 10 just before Mark was shot.

Speaker 10 So they presented the evidence to him, and he said, okay, I shot him. Oh, my God.
I did.

Speaker 10 I did it.

Speaker 10 He just spills it off. That's supposed to have been, but I ain't done it.

Speaker 10 I guess I've done it. I've done this.
Yeah, I did it. I shot him, motherfucker.
You got me. You got me.

Speaker 10 So he said that he promised to shoot Mark for somewhere between $7,000 and $10,000, but never never got a dime of it. From who?

Speaker 10 That's the thing here. Now,

Speaker 10 who the fuck is driving this car? Because he's walking. Johnny Hubbard is his name.
Johnny Hubbard. Old Johnny Hubbard, police found the driver, and there he is.

Speaker 10 And Johnny Hubbard would say, yeah, Terrence Barker there. Quaylo is the guy who did it.

Speaker 10 Hubbard said, quote, he said he shot him in the side, then shot him in the face. Jesus.
Exactly what happened. So they said everything lined up with the evidence as it showed.

Speaker 10 Everybody's admitting it. So they go, that's the thing.
How the fuck do you know, Mark? Right.

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Speaker 10 So they discovered that Johnny Hubbard knew Mark because he was one of his tenants. Yeah.
One of his tenants. Johnny told police, Johnny Hubbard, that

Speaker 10 Carl Kelly, Michelle's father, approached him about killing Mark.

Speaker 10 He came to collect his rent and was like, how'd you like to have free rent for a minute?

Speaker 10 I can't pay. Well,

Speaker 10 I'll wash it.

Speaker 10 If you do this, if you drive this. So they discovered that Hubbard was one of the tenants and that Kelly, Carl Kelly, had approached him about it.

Speaker 10 And the detective said, if you don't do what he tells you, you'll be on the street. Is that what he threatened? And Johnny said, yeah, that's what he said.

Speaker 10 We're going to kick you out of your shithole apartment. So Terrence became involved when Johnny asked him if he wanted to make some money.
This all started with Johnny Hubbard. I need your help.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 So then they went to a church parking lot to meet Carl and discuss shooting Mark, the two of them. So Terrence said he would do it.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 He said he had no idea who Mark was and never seen him before in his fucking life. I don't care.
Didn't care. Seven to ten grand.

Speaker 10 So according to Terrence, Carl gave them the gun that was used to kill Mark. Yeah.
He showed him Mark's house and told him where to wait inside in the house.

Speaker 10 But according to Terrence, though, it wasn't just Carl. What else? He said that Michelle was giving her father instructions.

Speaker 10 He said the wife was giving the father instructions of where the guy was going to be. And it was like

Speaker 10 going to me.

Speaker 10 daughter, father, tenant.

Speaker 10 Then they find texts here. The detective said Terrence Barker's statement is that Carl Kelly provided him with a firearm in order to do that with, but they think Michelle's the one calling the shots.

Speaker 10 They said that Michelle or Terrence Barker, he stated to me that she was giving play-by-play to her dad.

Speaker 10 She sent him multiple text messages, including one sent the day of the murder at 8.20 a.m. from Michelle to dad, quote, has to be today.
Can't live like this. Awful awful this morning.

Speaker 10 What is her problem? And he, Carl, said, okay, can you get him to lunch?

Speaker 10 Fine. Don't, you should probably leave then.
Well, okay, let's murder him is the answer. I'm re-shingling, but it was Jack.
Fuck, that was Jack.

Speaker 10 Yeah, Jack's got, he's lucky he was re-shingling that thing.

Speaker 10 So the phone records indicate that Michelle and Carl sent several text messages to each other on the day of the murder, the majority of which were deleted the same day. Yeah.
Bad sign.

Speaker 10 Phone records show that Mark didn't want to meet Michelle for lunch. He was saying, I'm busy.

Speaker 10 She insisted they went out for lunch, then insisted they go for ice cream after lunch, too, and extend the whole thing. That's why you get ice cream.

Speaker 10 They're not at the house yet. Let's go get cold stuff.
We got. Oh, no, no, come here.
No, I really want ice cream. Come on.
Apple pie a la moat. Wow.

Speaker 10 So the record showed that while they were in the ice cream place, she was in constant text with her father,

Speaker 10 touch with her father via textbook. That's a fucking psychotic

Speaker 10 eating her sundae going, oh, that's just my dad, and giving, oh my God. That is cold.
Colder than ice cream. Yeah.
Colder than cold stone. You're about to die today.
Hold on. Yeah, we'll take mix-ins.

Speaker 10 We could mix up a cold stone on her body. She's so cold.

Speaker 10 She's cold. So Michelle's mom

Speaker 10 is not surprised, by the way. Michelle's mom and Carl have been divorced.

Speaker 10 And she said, I knew what Carl was capable of. That's why I divorced him.
He had explosive temper. She said that he would never hit her because he didn't want to leave a mark.

Speaker 10 She said, quote, he would hold a gun to my head, hold a gun to your head. That doesn't leave marks.
No marks, but it scares the shit out of you. So basic plot.

Speaker 10 Police think that Michelle asked Mark to meet her for lunch that day, allowing Carl the opportunity to get to Terrence and get him, you know, going inside the house, setting him all up and waiting.

Speaker 10 A text found on Michelle's phone was initially supposed to be deleted by her, but was later used by the police to fuck her. She forgot to delete a couple of texts.

Speaker 10 Michelle pretended to be shocked when she found Mark dead. Obviously, that's part of the whole plot, but, you know,

Speaker 10 we know the real story. She's a bad woman.
So the investigators discovered Carl had been talking to other people and told them that Mark had been physically abusing Michelle and he was tired of it.

Speaker 10 So they said that

Speaker 10 they found that no abuse ever happened, though, when they looked at it. Of course not.
So that was a lie.

Speaker 10 So that's kind of one of those. The investigation uncovers the also a total of a million dollars.

Speaker 10 So the detective said it was greed, it was money. And Tana said it's always about the money with Michelle.
Oh, my word. So what does Michelle have to say for herself when presented with all this?

Speaker 10 Bad, bad,

Speaker 10 got some spleen into it, Michelle. She initially denied everything.
Of course. And then she said, okay,

Speaker 10 you're right about my dad, but I wasn't involved. Maybe my dad did it.
Yep. She said my father was involved.
That's how it works. But I didn't know that that till after Mark was dead.

Speaker 10 I just found out. Yeah.
So this is, you know, it wasn't news.

Speaker 10 So they went, well, you know, what are you talking about?

Speaker 10 The detective said, I have the man that shot your husband, the one that killed him in jail right now. She said, you know for sure? Yeah, we know.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 And the detective said, yes, ma'am, he's in jail, okay?

Speaker 10 And then they said, at this point, I'll also be arresting your father. That's what she said, my father? What did he do? What do you mean?

Speaker 10 And the detective said, quote, yes, ma'am, your father will be arrested for murder. I have all the information, all the evidence I need.
And Michelle said, not Mark's father?

Speaker 10 It wasn't the guy I thought, but I said you should arrest him. The detective said, no, ma'am, your father.
Carl Kelly's responsible for

Speaker 10 setting this up partly to have your husband killed. So then she turns on her father and says, and

Speaker 10 they ask her basically,

Speaker 10 were you going to split the life insurance with your father and all that? So she turns on it, on the father hard here.

Speaker 10 The detective said, the implications are, and everything else that's been gathered on this, is that money is supposed to have been coming from you.

Speaker 10 He's greedy and lazy. What would he get out of this, meaning your father? So you're getting all the money.
Your father's lazy. What are you going to do?

Speaker 10 And Michelle said, he would think that I would take care of him.

Speaker 10 And then she said that she doesn't, I quote, I don't want to talk about this again. And he said, I know you don't.
And then she said, I want an attorney.

Speaker 10 So they go, sure, he can talk to you in jail because you're under arrest. I don't want to talk about this anymore.
The judge sets a million-dollar bond for her. That's funny.

Speaker 10 And they said it's because she,

Speaker 10 she, with all that cash, she could flee. So, you know, now she can give all that cash away if she wants to flee.

Speaker 10 So Terrence here, okay, Terrence Barker. Yeah.

Speaker 10 In court. They take him to court and he agrees to testify against anybody and everybody that they need him to, gives up all the details of everything.
He doesn't mind. He didn't even get get paid yet.

Speaker 10 He never got a dime for this.

Speaker 10 He killed a stranger in his own house for nothing. For nothing.
Absolutely. They couldn't even find shit that was missing from the house.

Speaker 10 He just ransacked it. So he's an honest murderer.
He could have stole shit, too, but he didn't.

Speaker 10 So he is going to plead guilty to first-degree murder here. And he is told, you, sir, may fuck off 35 years in prison for you.

Speaker 10 Not bad. Not bad.
This is the parole up pretty quick, though. Now, Johnny Hubbard is going to plead guilty to hindering apprehension and the revocation of probation from a prior drug charge.

Speaker 10 Now he is sentenced to, you sir, may also fuck off, 18 years in prison.

Speaker 10 plus another 20 years for violation of probation on the drug conviction, and they'll be running consecutively. 38 years for that.
38 years.

Speaker 10 He just

Speaker 10 because he sold some weed a few years ago. Fucking not good.
Whoops. Whoops.
Now, Papa Carl, now, he's in court. He's also going to plead guilty.
They have all the, I mean, it's just text messages.

Speaker 10 They can just read the murder plot. He's got to go to that.
That's stupid.

Speaker 10 Yeah. And everybody, except for Lori Vallow, when you have text messages that show how guilty you are, they fucking plead guilty, except she goes, no, that doesn't mean that.

Speaker 10 That's not what that means. No, I just said he was a zombie.
In context.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 he pleads guilty to first-degree murder. During sentencing,

Speaker 10 Jack and Tanna are going to speak to him a little bit here. Tanna says, how could you, Carl? God damn it, Carl Duane.

Speaker 10 I love when they talk directly to the, not just like a speech, like, this has hurt my family. You son of a bitch, Carl.
God damn it, Carl. Carl, why are you such an asshole?

Speaker 10 Something about that directness of right to his face. Carl, it's your fucking problem.
God damn it, Carl.

Speaker 10 After all Mark had done, you just snuffed out his life without a thought of anything but the smell of money you thought was coming. Wow.
Yep. She said that you, my son, has bought you,

Speaker 10 bought you your family home and paid for vacations for you. He did all this stuff for you, and this is what you do.

Speaker 10 His money has put me in a house. Yes, they helped put him in a house.

Speaker 10 So she said, This is how you repaid his love for his family. You've been nothing but the sorriest, low-life, scum, grandstanding, blowhard bully from the start.
Fuck yeah, Tana.

Speaker 10 Lay it down.

Speaker 10 Sorriest, lowlife, scum, grandstanding, blow, hard bully. Dude, that is like grandstanding

Speaker 10 hard bully. That's mic drop.

Speaker 10 Holy shit. That's awesome.

Speaker 10 She could be a rapper. He's a worthless piece of shit, isn't he? Yeah, he is.
Carl sucks, man. She told him so.
And he raised a terrible daughter, too. They're just bad people here.

Speaker 10 Grandstanding piece of shit bully. God is amazing.
That's sorry, low-life scum, grandstanding, blowhard. That's a lot to.
It is. For a regular person who's like flustered and

Speaker 10 under the gun, that's a lot to come up with. And she wrote it succinctly, but it's like, it's not, it's not hacky.
It's not from anywhere else. She put blowhard.
Who gets called a blowhard?

Speaker 10 Blowhard bully, grandstanding. Grandstanding.
That's great.

Speaker 10 She got, that was like the scenes from Do the Right Thing when they're all

Speaker 10 yellow, going racial slurs on each other. That's what that seems like.
See, Nit picked him

Speaker 10 specific as quote.

Speaker 10 Laid down the the law, Tanna.

Speaker 10 So Jack also said the same thing, called him a, quote, piece of scum lower than anything I've encountered or heard of on Earth.

Speaker 10 It was hacky until he was like, you know what? There's not even a word for it. I never heard of you.
In Antarctica,

Speaker 10 under the first ice layer. I've heard tell

Speaker 10 down there. There's a certain four-celled

Speaker 10 shit eater.

Speaker 10 It's a four-celled creature that lives under there and literally shits and eats its own shit and then redoes it over and over again. You, sir, are lower than the excrement.

Speaker 10 The pace of the shit that's been going back and forth around in there. For 12 billion years.
For 12. You 12 billion-year-old shit, recycled shit.

Speaker 10 That's all you are, just over and over. You're a shit turd is what you are.
That's right.

Speaker 10 You've been in and out of this being 100, 200 times.

Speaker 10 So,

Speaker 10 thank you, Your Honor. Thank you.
Thank you. I was meant to say that.
They'll let him say it, too. They let him say anything on there.

Speaker 10 So, they said that when his son's money began ranning out, that he, Carl, received, thought that he wasn't going to get his money anymore, wasn't going to get taken care of.

Speaker 10 So, Jack said, I was pissed at you from the beginning. Yeah.
This is in court. Yeah.

Speaker 10 Listen, piece of scum. I'm pissed at you.
Hello, shit, turd. Wow.

Speaker 10 Carl, hear me now. Yeah.

Speaker 10 Shit crap turd. If I could take your life and bring my son back, I would, as they say in your stupid opinions.

Speaker 10 If I could give you zero stars, Carl,

Speaker 10 I would.

Speaker 10 So Carl says this, quote, I didn't know what I was doing. I'm very sorry for what I had done.
Oh, Carl. And then he says, I wish it never happened.
What a

Speaker 10 spineless coward. Well, he is a blowhard.
He was a sorry, grandstanding, blowhard, bully, scumbag, piece of scum, shit turn,

Speaker 10 amoeba excrement,

Speaker 10 whatever the fuck you want to call him.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 then they said, this is the judge here, and said, or this is the prosecutor saying, we have not entered into any of these pleas without the consent of Mark's parents.

Speaker 10 We've been able to obtain guilty pleas from three of the four defendants. Mark's parents have been in full agreement within our negotiations.
She's fighting it. She's the last one.

Speaker 10 Well, they got all three of them, and all three of them agreed to testify against her.

Speaker 10 So now they're putting the pressure on her to plead because it's like, we have everybody that's going to say that you started this, and you're the one who's. Her dad's ready to say you're an asshole.

Speaker 10 Sorry. You know, you turned on him.
He's turning on you now. And they say that, quote, we will now focus our sights on the final defendant, which sounds like pretty aggressive.

Speaker 10 And he is sentenced to, you, sir, may fuck off 35 years in prison. Not bad.
Again.

Speaker 10 They say here, this is the detective. Oh, no, this this is

Speaker 10 okay. Yeah, this is the prosecutor again.

Speaker 10 With Kelly's guilty plea and sentencing, and thanks to the good work detective Vic Brooks and the Jonesboro Police Department, the state is one step closer in obtaining justice for Mark and his parents.

Speaker 10 Today's proceedings will allow us to focus our time and resources on the Michelle DeSpain case. Here we go.
Oh, boy. So, Michelle pleads guilty.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's. What are you going to do?

Speaker 10 She pleads guilty to a lesser charge of hindering apprehension. what not conspiracy to commit murder not

Speaker 10 hindering apprehension not even insurance from murder yeah hindering apprehension yeah there's not even a a a hint or inclination that the that murder's involved that's crazy according to the plea agreement the state said they agreed to the arrangement due to uncertainties faced at pretrial motion hearings so evidence they needed wasn't being allowed in oh the probably the fact that she was the beneficiary had to be because that's the only reason that would be allowed in yeah that's the first thing there's no reason to not allow that only thing

Speaker 10 with that

Speaker 10 what are you going to fight with that that's conspiracy as fuck totally fucked so yeah they said potential risks risks to evidence admissibility during trial the state's unavoidable reliance upon uncertain testimony from previously convicted defendants and the burden of providing unanimous proof beyond a reasonable doubt she could say anything about those three guys and they could they could come up and change their minds about who knows so they said she entered the negotiated plea pleads guilty to three counts of hindering apprehension and prosecution of capital murder.

Speaker 10 And that means she would not face a capital murder charge herself. As part of the agreement, she waives her right to appeal, which she doesn't really need to because we'll find out here.

Speaker 10 She said nothing. So Mark's parents said they were afraid that if she went on trial, there was a chance she may be found not guilty, and they wanted her to serve something.

Speaker 10 So Mark's mom said, I felt Michelle was the ramrod of it. I think Carl and Hubbard and Barker were just taking orders.
I just know that in my heart.

Speaker 10 She said that the detective, Vic Brooks, never gave up. He told me he would get her.
And the day they arrested her was the best day of my life.

Speaker 10 They sentenced her. You, ma'am, may fuck off 30 years in prison.

Speaker 10 But whoa, okay. That's in 2014.
Heavy. But she got the lightest sentence of the group, which is crazy.
30 years on that charge is that's intense. But

Speaker 10 that is, she's up for, that's 2014.

Speaker 10 September 2019 is her first parole hearing. After five years? And they let her out.
No way. They fucking let her out.
No way. Five years.
Five years. That's a bad woman.
Out.

Speaker 10 Oh, boy.

Speaker 10 Residents of Arkansas, be fucking wear. Somebody's in danger right now.

Speaker 10 She did five fucking years. I guess

Speaker 10 six, if you count jail. And under the cover of COVID, they released her.

Speaker 10 September, before that. September 2019.
Right. The fucking tornado didn't even hit.
No. The big one didn't didn't even come through.
Maybe it took her.

Speaker 10 From what I understand, she's still around. Wow.
Yep.

Speaker 10 I looked her up. Oh, she's kicking around right now.
I won't give her her location or anything like that because I don't want anybody to bother and try to fucking attack her.

Speaker 10 Be careful. She's dangerous.
This is crazy. It's a dangerous chick named Michelle.
Don't. Dangerous.
Don't, don't, don't. Yeah, that's that's bad shit.
So that is terrifying.

Speaker 10 Five years she got for that. That's she orchestrated.
She's having an affair with a 24-year-old. The The age doesn't matter, but she's having an affair with a 24-year-old, fucking silent,

Speaker 10 embezzling money from the family business to do this,

Speaker 10 kills, has her husband killed, has her manipulates

Speaker 10 her father into hiring people to kill her husband for money.

Speaker 10 And she gets five years for that.

Speaker 10 That is great. And she's out.
There's people sitting on death row for that.

Speaker 10 I just want people to understand that. That's a dead ass, serious

Speaker 10 allegation. And she did it.

Speaker 10 And she pled to it. Wow.
Ooh, amazing. Now,

Speaker 10 beware of her, but don't beware of the other Michelle Despains because there's a few of them that are actually well-known. Well, maybe just beware of them.
It's not them. Just in case.

Speaker 10 Well, this one, I don't think you have to worry about. Michelle Despain Hoger.
She's an Argentinian-American luge athlete who competed for Argentina in the 2006 Winter Olympics. Okay.

Speaker 10 I think she's probably good. Yeah.
And you can't catch her anyway. She'll luge away from you.
You'll never find her. Just support her.
Find her shirt or whatever.

Speaker 10 And then a Migelle Despain, who has a book here on Amazon called The Late Bloomers Almanac, Cultivating Mind, Body, and Soul Throughout the Year. All year long.
Yes.

Speaker 10 And I know this isn't this, Michelle, because the book came out in 2014

Speaker 10 when she was in prison. So, yeah, I don't think she was doing that.
It's $29.99 that part. Jesus Christ.
Seems like

Speaker 10 you must be a late bloomer if you're willing to pay $30 for your fucking paperback.

Speaker 10 Not do with that shit. So there you go.
Oh, my God. There's Jonesboro, Arkansas.
Stay the fuck out of Arkansas. Jesus, tornadoes.
If not tornadoes, killer women and their fathers.

Speaker 10 Why isn't that in the review? If tornadoes don't scare you, maybe killer women do. Yeah, and their fathers.
Watch out for that.

Speaker 10 Killer families.

Speaker 10 Yeah, the whole thing. So, because, I mean, she wouldn't have done it if she didn't have somebody willing to do it.
Yeah, because she couldn't do it.

Speaker 10 I don't think she could do it, and I don't think she would have known where to go to get somebody. I don't know, but the father does.

Speaker 10 I blame Carl a lot here. So there you go.
There's Jones for

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Speaker 10 But the Laurie Vallo Day Bell trial, of which I've seen every second. The fun part.

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Speaker 10 The fun part may be that we get

Speaker 10 closure in that episode about it.

Speaker 10 We'll call closure. She's got another trial starting, though, for the attempted murder of somebody else.
The two of us might have some rage-filled rants. Oh, it's going to be fun.

Speaker 10 Oh, I've seen, I have had an ass full of Laurie. I've watched her for six hours a day, dude.
We sit there. I'm working every day.
I'm watching Lori.

Speaker 10 I know it all, man. I can't wait.
You've got to be honest. I know her not to hate her.
Oh, my God. It's going to be amazing.
So, check that out. And that is patreon.com/slash crime in sports.

Speaker 10 And you get a shout-out at the end of the regular show as well. So, Jimmy, you'll fuck your name all up.
That said, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 10 If you want to follow us on social media, you can do that very easily. Shut up and givememurder.com.
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Speaker 10 Thank you so much for hanging out with us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.
Bye, Michelle.

#590 - Murdering As A Family - Jonesboro, Arkansas

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Transcript

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