#581 - Sexy Sunday School Teacher Slaughter - Enid, Oklahoma

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Always know your car's worth with Carvana Value Tracker. This week, in Enid, Oklahoma, the horribly cruel murder of a well-liked church deacon seems like an awful random attack,

but there's actually a tangled web of plot that makes the whole thing so much more dastardly.

Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy.
Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo.
I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.
Thank you so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy, incredible episode of Small Town Murder. It's quite the adventure today, man.
It is stuff going everywhere. A wild time.
Can't wait to get into this. Before we do, very, very quickly, definitely make sure to head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com.
Get your tickets, first of all. Tickets for live shows.
Virtual live show is the next one up that is april the 19th it's our 420 virtual live show which means costumes which means i have crazy bongs to force jimmy to smoke out of at different intervals in the show just like a regular live show except you can be anywhere in the world with internet and you can watch it and buy it or do whatever you want with it for two weeks after the show too yeah very excited get in there and do that and also get your tickets for regular live shows may we are in st louis and chicago st louis has been sold out chicago still some tickets there at the riviera beautiful venue get your tickets for the rest of the year too because they're selling fast i think san diego madison portland a lot of so far, Grand Rapids. So get in there if you'd like to go to a show, definitely this year.
Shutupandgivememurder.com. Listen to our other two shows as well, Crime in Sports, which we have looking like it's going to be about a nine or ten part Evil Knievel series going on right now.
So you don't have to like sports. You just have to like crazy people to enjoy that.
And also listen to listen to your stupid opinions where we talk about some of the craziest reviews of anything and everything on earth so it's a lot of fun then you should get patreon patreon.com slash crime in sports tell you right now the best bargain in podcasting anybody five dollars a month or above you're gonna get a whole lot first of all you subscribe, you're going to get hundreds and hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard before immediately upon subscription. Then you get new ones every other week.
One crime and sports, one small town murder. And how much of that do they get, Jimmy? Every drop, every bit, all of it.
Every drop of it. That's right.
This week for crime and sports, we're going to talk about some cheating scandals, maybe the craziest thing i've ever heard the spanish paralympic team where no one was actually disabled in any way shape or form we'll talk monster we'll talk about all of that then for small town murder honestly one of the craziest stories i've ever heard in my life documentary on netflix called american nightmare and i read the whole i read a book about it too like a 12 hour audio. It's a lot and it is kind of, you think it's a Sherry Papini situation.
It's a staged kidnapping and people are lying, but then maybe not, but then maybe. It's crazy.
Oh my god, I can't wait to tell the story. It's going to be so much fun.
Patreon.com slash crime in sports. So check all that out and more over there and you get a shout out at the end of the show as well.
That said, disclaimer time. Here we go.
Yes, Jimmy, you'll mispronounce your name on that shout out. Real good.
Don't worry about that. Disclaimer, it's a comedy show.
We are comedians and we will make jokes, but that doesn't mean that the story isn't 1,000% completely real in every detail. Nothing is exaggerated for comedic effect or anything stupid like that.
No, no, no. We, uh, we stay on it.
And what we do is here, there's a lot of jokes to make. That's the thing.
Here's what we don't do though. We don't make jokes about the family or, or the victim or the victim's family because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags.
See how that works there?

Yeah, there's plenty to make fun of.

The fact that someone's going, I think I can get away with this with zero murder experience.

That's a crazy thought right there.

Plenty to make fun of.

We'll talk about all that and more.

If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, we might not be the show for you, but we might be.

That's the other thing.

You never know.

Give it a try.

Give it a try and no complaining later because you've been warned. That said, I think

it's time, everybody. Let's go.

Let's all sit back. Let's clear the

lungs here. Arms to the sky and let's

all shout,

shut up

and give me

murder.

Let's do this, everybody.

Let's go on a trip, shall we? We're going to Oklahoma here. Middle of the country madness, baby.
We are going to Enid, Oklahoma. And we will explain a little bit more about the town stuff after we get done with the town stuff.
But for now, we'll start off Enid, Oklahoma, northwestern Oklahoma. It's about an hour and a half to downtown Oklahoma City from Enid.
About an hour 45 to Tulsa. So right between a rock and a hard place there, right between the two.
Yeah. Tulsa has, I believe, the most terrifying first 48 episodes ever.
Every one of them is terrifying. It's about an hour and 20 minutes also to ceiling Oklahoma, which was our last Oklahoma episode, episode 535, the murder bones mystery.
That was a wild episode. This is in Garfield County.
Area code 580. The motto for Enid, they have several.
Oh, OK. We have the wheat capital of the United States.
Yeah. Which I mean, sure, I'll buy that.
It seemed like there's probably a lot growing there. The queen wheat city of Oklahoma.
They're really leaning on the wheat. I mean, if you're the capital of the United States, you're obviously the queen wheat city of your state.
And then, I don't even know what this is, the Purple Martin capital of Oklahoma. What's a Purple Martin? Is that a euphemism for a hard-on? What are we talking about? I don't know what that is exactly.
I'm not sure. So a little bit of history quickly here.
Prior to the land run of 1893, the land where Enid is was part of O County in the Cherokee outlet and was occupied by the Cherokee people following the Trail of Tears. This is where.
Yikes. Yeah.
We're sent here.

It was then known as Skeleton.

Okay.

This place.

I'm sure that's a reason.

And then in 1889, some guy from the railroad said this, that's a terrible.

What is it called?

Skeleton?

That's crazy.

So he renamed the station, the railroad station, Enid, after a character in Alfred Lord Tennyson's Idols of the King. As we, you know, we all know that, obviously.
Very well aware. I don't know.
So that is how it happened. But there's actually a different story of how the town got his name that's more fun, actually, than that.
And dumber. One is literary thing a classic and then this is this according to this tale in the days following the land run some settlers decided to set up chuck wagons and cook for people that were coming by little roadside first roadside diners type of thing and they would hide they hung a sign that said yeah first food trucks they hung a sign that said dine, first food trucks.
They hung a sign that said dine. I was just going to say this is backwards.
Yes. What? And they said some of the people turned the sign backwards and then it read Enid and that's the name stuck.
But that's not true. But they find that to be a better origin story than a literary reference.
They're like, I better okay books and stuff never mind that uh here is five uh reviews of this town since we've never been here we don't know anything about it here's five stars like i have said before where okay this is you're in public now like i've like i've told my family for years great a lot of hillbillies like to start sentences like I say or like public now. Like I've like I've told my family for years.
Great. A lot of hillbillies like to start sentences.
Like I say or like I said, like I said, like, baby, you didn't say this yet. This is the first time.
But she has Alzheimer's, though. Your grandmother might have actually thought she did say it or she might have said it in 1968 and think that was five minutes ago.
We don't know. Or five minutes ago.
She thought't say it out that's the other thing yeah yeah she's cut her some slack jimmy uh like i have said before this experience is amazing but it is kind of off kind off small so i think they mean of small it's kind of a small town here's four stars enid is very boring but i like that I like the boring. I've lived here for about three years, and it's fine for me.
I have no problem with Enid being boring, unlike all my friends. Nothing bad here happens.
A low crime rate here in Enid. We'll be the judge of that.
We have stats. There only was one big issue that has happened in Enid, but again, nothing happened.
The issue was threats made, the Enid High School, which I go to, and nothing happened. When this threat was made, the police were on it.
They covered the whole school in secret, of course, but you could tell. I got to admit, nothing happens at all, not even crime, so it's a little boring.
All right. Here's one star.
Sure would appreciate my neighbor's head getting sawed off just for some just give me some action yeah give me some goddamn action in this joint like a it's like a four like a drug gang maybe a missing kid for a couple hours anything big like a north hollywood bank robbery type of deal one of those you know give me something like that find the kid tomorrow i'm fine with That's okay. One star.
The city of Enid as a whole is one of the most boring cities I've ever lived in. This person doesn't like the boring, apparently.
It's like the city doesn't want to build anything that will attract out-of-town tourists. Yeah, there is the Stride Center.
Oh, yay. You all won't pay for good entertainment.
I guess they have a venue where people can come, but they don't draw there, apparently. Yeah, we don't get suggested, do you guys want to go to Enid on your next tour ever? That never comes up.
City of Enid officials don't do what the residents that elect them claim that elect them to do, they do what they want to do and at their own pace. If you want to open a business, the paperwork will be held back and you won't be able to.
I don't even know what the hell you're talking about. That's crazy.
So, yeah, you want boring like retirement style boring. Come to Enid.
Actually, want to be able to enjoy your days off with the family and drive downtown plus hours. Then, well, you make the decision.
I don't know what you're talking about. And then finally, one star, maybe the greatest review of anything I've ever heard.
This is for a whole town, mind you. There is one taxi that is very sleazy looking.
One star, whole town. One shitty taxi, the whole town's ruined.
People of this town, 52,129.

So it's a decent-sized place.

It's a small town, but it's a big, small city.

A few more males than females, which is odd.

Maybe that has to do with farming and oil stuff, possibly.

This is also a Tornado Alley fucking place.

I know I've heard of it for 20 years.

Oh, it is, yeah.

Every time I've driven through Oklahoma, I've been in some sort of tornado warning every single time I've done it. It's a tornado alley fucking place.
I've heard of it for 20 years. Oh, it is, yeah.
Every time I've driven through Oklahoma, I've been in some sort of tornado warning. Every single time I've done it.
It's crazy. We had to stay there one time, and the lady at the hotel was like, oh, yeah, there's a tornado warning, so keep an eye on that.
Go in the bathtub. And we're like, what? And she's just like, in case it comes through.
We're like, is it going to come through? She's like, you never know. Okay, great.
Sounds good. Grab a bottle of wine and draw a bath.
That's it. Just hang out in the bathtub.
Median age, 34.9. 48% married here.
18% are single with children. So less married than average.
Few more single with children than average. Race here, 72.8% white, 3.5% black, 0.8% Asian, 13.5% Hispanic, 3.3% Hawaiian Pacific Islander.
Is that right? As high as I've seen in any place other than Hawaii and California or Alaska, really. Pacific Islands.
Yeah, that's a lot. I don't know if there's a community here that— Maybe natives are just clicking that one because the natives aren't options or something? I know in Utah there's a big Samoan population there, so I don't know if half of Fiji has come to Enid.
I'm not sure. Who the hell knows? Religious here, they're pretty religious.
58.7% of the people here are religious, And the biggest one is 17.6% Baptist. As we know, the Baptists are the Catholics of the wheat fields, obviously, now, we found out here, since the Northeast is all Catholic and otherwise there.
The unemployment rate here is 3.7, which is below the national average. It's very low.
Really low, 3.7. The median household income here is $57,772 a year, which is less than the national average.
It's about $69,000. But everything's so fucking cheap.
That's the thing. The cost of living here is low.
$100 is regular average in the United States. Here it's $72.
Oh, my. So way low.
Housing is the cheapest of everything.

Yeah. Median home

cost here,

$126,400.

What?

That's extremely

inexpensive. That's unbelievable.

If you want to be bored,

we have for you the

Enid, Oklahoma Real Estate

Report.

Okay, average two-bedroom rental goes for about $940,

which is about $300 less than the national average, $350.

Here's house number one.

Three-bedroom, one-b bath, 1,578 square feet.

And the listing is as such.

This is the entire real estate listing.

Okay.

Quote, this home, hate a fire. H-A-D-E.

Sells as is.

And it looks.

It's all burnt and like charred.

Like on the outside, you see where fire came and like licked the fucking walls from the inside. It's crazy.
There's no interior pictures. Looks like it's going to fall down any minute now.
Three bedroom, one bath, 1,578 square feet of fire damage. $29,900 for that.
I mean, you're buying the property and the footprint because you're just going to scrape it. You have to knock the house down.
There's no

way to fix this. Here's a four bedroom,

three bath, 2,339 square

feet. It looks like it's

like that weird, you know that Arizona

Santa Fe style with the

archway? Yeah,

that's what it is. It's weird.
It's way

too southwest-y for... I know

Oklahoma is sometimes considered the southwest,

but this is like straight New Mexico, Arizona type shit here. It's really weird.
Four bedroom, three bath, 2,339 square feet. It's $299,900.
That's for almost 3,000 square feet. That's fantastic.
Not bad. Not a lot of land, though.
It's a small lot. Then here's a three bedroom, four bath, T-ball each and every B-hole, and one left over, 3,995 square feet.

This is on 21.7 acres.

Wow.

Big lot, yeah.

The Zillow listing says living space as a highlight,

which, yes, it is.

They say it's a thoughtfully designed living space.

Upon entry, you'll be greeted by a stunning wood cathedral ceiling

that leads into a large living room with captivating views of the gas fireplace and outdoor area. It's nice, but it's not $1.5 million, which is what it costs.
It's not that nice. 21.7 acres.
Yeah, that'll do it. That's what it is, but it's still kind of flat.
What are you going to do out there? You know what I mean?

Honestly.

Things to do here.

All right.

We have Simpsons Old Time Museum.

This is not an old time museum about the Simpsons either,

which is what I thought. I got excited.

There's 30 years of that.

We could watch it.

You could have it now.

So they say visit Simpsons Old Time Museum

and Skeleton Creek Productions Movie Studio and step back into the Old West. So it's like Old Tucson, basically.
Same shit with, you know, the fucking. Are there a lot of movies filmed in this area? Not that I know of.
I don't know. I mean, maybe.
I have no idea. You never heard about it.
Hop Along Cassidy memorabilia, baseball collectibles, train sets, and a wide range of military items from the cavalry days through World War II. So just any old shit they can find, they throw in there.
That's all cool stuff, but they usually have their own museums. Here it all is in one thing here.
I mean, if you got a little bit of each, a hodgepodge, then just slam it together and that makes a museum. Now we got a museum.
They say they have their own indoor movie sets. That was one of our having their own indoor movie sets was always one of the goals of our production company with this in mind and having space to build.
We began our first movie set in 2003. Since that year, we've increased the number of our sets and now have how many do you think? Seven, Several.
They don't even say. Listen to honky-tonk piano music and sip an ice-cold sarsaparilla in the 1880s saloon.
Okay? If you get too rowdy, you might get taken to the marshal's office and thrown in our 1880s jail. Jesus Christ.
Visit our 1880s hotel lobby, complete with stairway, and see our hotel hallway, an authentic

hotel room.

It's just old-time stuff here.

Surrounding, what is this?

Oh, in the center of the museum is an authentic chuck wagon, complete with a campfire and

a cook.

We're very jealous of Dodge City.

Yeah, we really are.

Crime rate in this area, what we are interested in here, obviously, property crime is about 50% higher than the national average. Oh.
Shit is going down in Enid, man. Boring my ass.
This place is hopping. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is exactly average.
Okay. Exactly the national average.
So I don't know what's going on in this town making people so angry or so upset or whatever it is, but there's some shit popping off here. That said, damn it, let's talk about some murder.
Let's do it. Okay.
Now, first of all, I have to say something here. This murder technically takes place within the boundaries of Oklahoma City.
Now, the people are from Enid. They moved to Oklahoma City.
Now, we did not realize, Team Small Town Murder did not realize that this took place. Because when you hear it and you see the pictures, it's in this neighborhood.
It's not like downtown Oklahoma City. It's out in the burbs and it's, you know, it looks very small townish.
And then the people and the story, it sounds it's our it's our show. It's small town.
So it actually technically takes place in Oklahoma City. Damn it.
But the people are from Enid and they're in northwestern Oklahoma City, which is technically on the way to Enid. So if you were almost if you just go a little further, you're going to end up in Enid.
We'll put it that way. So it's almost Enid.
And we apologize for that. But like I said, when you hear the story, you're going to go, yeah, this is a small town murder all the way.
So it's fine. But we apologize about the screw up there.
Either way, here we go. It's suburban town murder.
Either way, it's out there. Let's talk about a woman first here.
Brenda Evers. Let's talk about E-V-E-R-S Evers.
She's born on December 10th, 1963. She is described in a newspaper article as growing up quote in white bread normalcy living a life so vanilla it was as if she'd stepped right out of a 1950s sitcom that's Brenda's growing up life very lots of dresses with that doily around the neck oh yeah that do, that doily and just a lot of going down to the soda shop.
Yeah, she's at the soda shop drinking a soda. Making food for all of the men in the house.
You know what I mean? Make your brother some food. Oh, okay.
Fix your brother a sandwich. Yeah.
She was raised in Enid. See, there's Enid.
In a very conservative, very Christian household, very Christian-ish. And the family would do a big prayer before they ate and all that.
Just kind of your standard middle of the country kind of Bible belt type of shit here. Big home-cooked meals and all that kind of thing.

One of her best friends from back in the day said she was just a typical sort of small-town girl.

I mean, she was nothing out of the ordinary.

That's what they say about her. Her family now, the Evers family, one neighbor said,

I remember them being really quiet.

The whole family was.

They weren't very outspoken or anything. These are stoic, quiet people here.
They said that a lot of that they thought might have been caution. You know what I mean? That's just how they were.
I guess her sister, Kim, said that she and Brenda learned to be very private growing up because they have a severely mentally disabled brother. Oh, okay.

And in the 60s, you basically hid that person in the attic.

Like there was no, you know, people were a lot less likely to be, you know,

just proud of their kids no matter what they are.

And it was considered there must be something wrong with you or, yeah,

God cursed you or whatever it is.

There was a real kind of a, just a stigma with that for a long time. It's too bad.
It is. And they said that.
But she said it actually. Kim said it actually helped them become stronger having a brother that had problems.
She said because of my brother, we've both been very strong individuals, very careful and very guarded, though. So a lot of private type of thing.
One of her friends said she loved hanging out with Brenda and thought her parents were really nice and she had a lot of respect for them. She said about Brenda's family, they were a lot like my family.
So, you know, that's made me feel comfortable. In the seventh grade, Brenda enrolled in baton classes at Enid Twirling Academy.

A whole academy just for twirling.

52,000 people.

We got a twirling.

We got a twirling.

And this is in like 1970.

So there's probably a shit.

I bet there was 15,000 people back then.

They still had a twirling academy.

Useless-ass academy.

Wow.

There was eight to ten other girls her age at 6 p.m. every Wednesday.
So they found ten girls a Wednesday to do this. Her instructor said for her to take baton twirling in junior high, that's kind of a wholesome sport.
She was from a very wholesome family. But Belva Lamb, her senior twirling coach, said that she was, quote, an average baton twirler at best.
Everything about her, right up the middle. Imagine, no matter what you did, if 35, 40 years later, they're like, you know, he really sucked at that when he was eight.
Couldn't hit a t-ball for shit when he was seven, I'll tell you that right i still remember that dumb bastard yeah he wasn't very good he just this kind of a non-achieving just a real right at the middle useless fuck kind of a loser he was i'm not gonna lie i mean i could tell i looked at the eight-year-old and they said the kid's a loser he's never gonna get any better i'll take his parents money for this shit he's never going to learn. I'm sure there's somebody who's got that quote locked and loaded for me.
I'm sure. But she's really good at schoolwork.
And she's very nice to her friends. She gets good grades.
One of her friends said she was one of our little group of students who all got straight A's. She played the trumpet and twirled for the band.
She didn't talk about boys very much. Just real.
I mean, this is like. She's frustrated.
She can't fucking figure out this trumpet or that fucking baton. But she's going to high school in like the 70s, though.
This is like, you know, dazed and confused times. And she's like, this is like she's in the 40s you know what i mean it's a totally different disconnect so brenda was not that she should be out like sucking dick and doing drugs i'm not saying that i'm just saying there's a different lifestyle going on i mean this is post woodstock for christ's sake you know it's just a different deal.
Her friend said she was interested in school, studying, going to church, and helping others. She was always the first one to offer to help.
She's also really good in home ec class, cooking and sewing. Yeah, or especially her specialties here.
She irons like a bastard, Jesus. Oh, you never know anything about that.
He that heats an iron like nobody's business can't twirl a baton even even iron just even no wrinkles no burn marks oh forget about it trumpet a layer cake like a queen so the problem is none of this she's not good socially really she has friends but it's like her little group of like smart kid friends. And that's that.
Some people considered her kind of an oddball. One of her classmates named Brad said there wasn't much associating with her.
She was so quiet and shy. She went to the football games, of course, but she never went out to the parties with us afterwards.
She she'd go home once the game was over. He then said she never drank or smoked or anything like that.
She was always real meticulous in how she dressed, real conservative. She always buttoned her clothes all the way up.
All the way up? All the way up. To the neck, baby.
That's it. Not a single button undone.
You cover your collarbones.

No one wants to see that.

Not the one at the bottom to make it easier to sit?

No?

No, no, no, no. Save some.
No. If you have any room open, then Satan can get right in there.
That's how it works. The devil just jumps right in.
Yeah. Once he's in there, you want to lock them all up, make sure he stays.
so um in 1982 she's a senior in high school and she's starting to be less shy when she gets like

a senior in high school and she's starting to be less shy when she gets like a senior in high school here and she began dating a man here or a young man i should say he's a year older than her so not like anything untowards going on she began dating a man named rob andrew who was about almost two years older than her he studied advertising at osu so he went to oklahoma state cowboy cowboy there that's the college um and he's just rooting for barry sanders like you wouldn't believe so uh brenda met rob at the swimming pool during summertime is what his sister kim said so he got to see everything on display i mean she granted she was wearing a full wetsuit buttoned up to the top i mean it was she was real buttoned up but still yeah she had one of those like 1910s like you know down to the knees outfits on uh but she said like brenda uh rob came from a tight-knit religious family as well. So, same thing.
Her sister said, I think their values are pretty much the same. Even though he was Baptist and she was Lutheran, in their religious beliefs, they were a lot alike.
Yeah. Wow.
Being a non-religious person, it's all the same. I mean, I get that if you're in the whatever sect it is you're you there you'll notice this tiny differences but from the outside you're all praying in the same place so it seems similar you know and um like i said that's just my ignorance of the of the matter but still um but in their religious beliefs they're a lot alike which you'd imagine so so brenda from high school, and she's dating Rob Andrew here.
Robert is his full name. And his younger brother, I guess, used to frequent the same pool as Brenda, and that's how she met him.
This is Rob's brother, Tom, said, she always asked me about him. I went back and told him, quote, this chick at the pool's been asking about you.
Oh. That's how they met.
Hey, there's a little hot piece of number here at the pool. I mean.
Hot piece of number. Hot piece of number.
You get three or four of those layers she's wearing off. I think she's got something going on under there.
You know what I mean? These are a hot piece of number, I'll tell you. of number she's a god i'm an idiot so hey everybody just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit about our safest sponsors simply safe and everyone has routines that you go through make you feel good make you feel secure like you have control over the world and a And a lot of times you don't, but you do if you're us and your routine includes arming your Simply Safe home security system.
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And now back to the show. Hey, everybody.
Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Life360. It's a new year.
Things are going on. You're juggling your family.
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Now back to the show. Oh, man.
So he said, this is another friend, said, I'm not surprised he fell for Brenda. She was so kind and sweet and so soft-spoken, but he was a catch.
Yeah. That's the brother talking.
She's getting a good one. My brother's a real catch, boy.
I'll tell you something. You should see the bulge in those Speedos, boy.
That's going to attract all the ladies. So after Brenda graduates, she spends a year at Lutheran College in Winfield, Kansas.
She is Lutheran, I guess. Holy shit.
Before moving over to OSU to be closer to Rob. So that's what she wanted to do.
And June 2nd, 1984, Brenda and Rob get married. Wow.
Look at Brenda getting married now. She did it.
She fished herself a good one. And they get married.
What church are they getting married in? That's the thing. Oh, Lutheran? What are they going to do? The Redeemer Lutheran Church in Enid.
So he said, listen, whoever's got more buttons wins. I can't compete with her.
She's buttoned. Wow, he really, really loves her.
He's doing everything for her. He does, yeah he does yeah they seem to really love each other too she pursued him and he's just he's like hell yeah do anything for that's great so they start setting up their life here um they lived and worked in oklahoma city then they relocated to south texas where rob got a job down there rob went to school for advertising and he gets a job.
And later on, he'll be an advertising executive and make six-figure salary back and do pretty well for himself here. So Brenda stayed behind in Oklahoma as he settled in and then she quit her bank job in Oklahoma and followed him down there.
So she found... Houston or what? I think it's outside of Houston, I believe.
So she found work at a bank down there and, you know, made some friends and all that kind of shit. And they settled in and became part of the fabric of the community wherever they were.
Now, Rob, apparently it was less religious at one point than he became or he had like a lapse in it or something here. because, yeah, friends said that quote I knew he was a Christian because we had covered that ground early on but I also knew that he lived on that ragged edge and he liked to party hell yeah yeah this is how he described to his friend why how he was going to change his partying ways okay he went to friend and he said, on this day, this is his friend quoted here, Rob wanted me to know that things were different.
He held up a Susan B. Anthony silver dollar and asked, do you know the story of the Susan B.
Anthony silver dollar? And he said, I replied, of course. I've seen them and have passed many through my hands.
And he said, Rob said, no, no, that's not what I mean. I didn't say, do you know that they exist? Yeah, I know.
Yeah. He said, do you know why they stopped making them? Which he really should have started out with that.
Be specific. The story of the dollar is pretty vague.
That sounds like the origin, you fuck. That's vague.
Yeah. That's vague.
So the guy said, no, not really, but I'm sure you're going to tell me about it you know let's go after it you fuck so rob said look at this one he held it in full view then reached in his pocket and pulled out a quarter and said see see how closely the quarter and the dollar are in size and appearance which is true he's this guy said i examined them with astonishment yeah they are pretty close he never noticed this. He's had them in his hand but never noticed.
That's about the size of a quarter. Yeah, I know all about them.
Anything that's that size, that's about the size of a quarter. I think you noticed that.
So he said he explained further, people were always confusing them for quarters. They often passed in change as quarters.
On accident. By accident.
So this guy said, I scratched my chin and looked at him with an expression that said i suppose there's a point to this but waiting summit mount what's your point any minute now tap tap tap motherfucker what do we got so he said he continued they were discontinued because they were too much alike and people were giving up dollars for quarters and he said the guy goes on to say then the real reason for rob's conversation with me was revealed rob said quote i was a susan b anthony dollar he's really making some analogies and doing some metaphor here people wanted me to attend parties because i always brought the party to life and a lot of people said said he was the life of the party back in high school and college and shit. Life of the party guy.
He said, I told jokes and brought the liquor. And to everyone at the party, I was one of the gang.
So the guy says, now the look on Rob's face grew grave and tears formed in his eyes. What? And he said, the guy Rob said, when I heard the Susan B.
Anthony dollar story and why it was canceled, I knew it was me. I'm the dollar that was mistaken for a quarter.
I cheapened myself. Oh, okay.
Yes. He's passed off as a, with the rest of the quarters out there, you know, drinking and having fun in college, doing normal shit.

He could have just said, I think I'm better than being drunk all the time.

That would have been fine.

But, you know, he's got a gift for metaphor.

I'll give him that.

He really connected this all.

Confusing the motherfucker out of people.

So he said, now with tears running down his cheeks, he said, I knew Christ, but no one knew me.

No one who knew me would ever have guessed it.

Thank you. Then I one on their desk and told them the same story I told you.

Then I asked for their forgiveness.

They're like, I don't care what you do outside of the office.

You got the TPS report

or not? I don't give a shit.

If you drink, you don't drink. Show up on time

and no one cares. Dude, I'm happy for

you. Feel better.

I mean, great. You don't need

my forgiveness is what I'm saying. Live your life.
I don love jesus don't i don't it doesn't matter to me doesn't affect me at work is a weird place to do this yeah he said i was a christian in their midst and they had no clue because i was acting like i didn't know christ did he vomit in their desk or something unless's what i mean unless he came in with like a

lampshade on his head and a half-dranken bottle of fucking stole he going balls hanging out the flap of his boxers or something i just i came to shit in the office bathroom i didn't know it was work time yet i was oof boy i was the office bathroom that was my desk it was too stinky from my house is all.

Unless he's doing that, like...

Who cares? Yeah, no one at work cares what you're doing. But, I mean, for him, though, this was a big, just transformative event.
So, I think it's good for him. Everybody finds their own life.
I'm happy for him. Finds themselves.
You don't have to make a fucking spectacle of it. You don't have to involve others is my point yeah that's all i'll say yes that's if i'm sitting at a at a ad office i don't care about this no at all i'm like do you have that tagline for whatever horse shit we're selling for that insurance company that's all unless you're making life miserable at the office because you're drunk yeah that's what i mean you're coming in just telling everybody i'm not gonna do it anymore sloshed great congratulations on not getting fired about it right but i mean but it shows a rob is definitely a thoughtful person and he thinks that he's done something to people and he's a nice guy that's all there is to it about it jesus yeah so uh by eight 1988 rob is ready to come back to oklahoma he's had it with te.
Brenda, not quite ready to go. She likes it down there.
She's made a lot of friends. She's having a good time.
She doesn't want to go. So they would fight repeatedly about moving.
And Rob got a new job in Oklahoma City at Jordan Associates, where he's an ad executive and makes really good fucking money. So he wants to go there.
And he returned alone, leaving his wife behind for a few months.

He's like, well gotta take this job and i'm going back eventually brenda hooks back up with him in oklahoma and returned to her old job that she had before they moved to texas she made friends with the wife of a man named Rick Nunley, we'll talk about later on, as early as about February 1988. So they've been married about four years.
Rob seeks marital counseling from a pastor at that point because they fought about the move and he moved back by himself and trying to get her to come with. And they don't have any kids yet or anything,'s tough so he wants to he talks to the pastor and tries to get some counseling going on i guess it works because she moves back there and then on december 23rd 1990 they have a daughter oh here we go and her name is tricity spelled tri-city why i there's reason why.
Okay. There is an absolute reason why.
One story said, quote, no one, this is hilarious, this was from the Oklahoman newspaper, no one would have described Rob Andrew as crazy, although he did do fun things, this is from someone from work, like bringing slushes to to everyone at work because he decided July 11th should be 7-11 day. What? He didn't decide that is that they do that and they give away slushies.
It's a thing. They were free guys.
Yeah. He didn't pay for these.
Or like naming his daughter tricity because if she ever ran for public office her slogan could be what what electricity i'm okay i'm gonna i gotta go oh man i hate it so much wow don't name your kid like a pun or wordplay please just give your kid a normal name in name. In the hopes that maybe she does? Otherwise, if I saw that name, if I went to school with a girl that was named Tricity, I would call her Tri-City all the time.
Just call her T-Bone. T-Bone.
So Tricity is born. I quit.
Dude, how else? That's what I said. Is this real? I found this in two sources and

when it's got to be real. That's all there is to it.

This is crazy.

So the couple's first

childtricity, she's born and

they decide that Brenda should

stay home and take care of the kids

and be a stay at home mom now.

And her sister Kim said

she really, really enjoyed working in the

bank. But when they started having children, being a mom and being there to raise her kids became top priority.

Fine.

And they can afford to do that, too, because he makes really good money so they can afford to do this.

It's a nice luxury to have the option to have if you want, you know, to have one person be able to stay home.

So you don't have to send your kid with strangers or force your parents to do it or some shit so september 27th 1994 comes around and they have a son named parker here we go so yeah they're doing well and brenda through all of this she's embracing uh kind of the stay-at-home mom lifestyle with this she becomes uh she gets stays really busy that's the thing she becomes a girl scout leader with Tricity. She becomes she stays really busy.
That's the thing. She becomes a Girl Scout

leader with Tricity.

She becomes one of the homeroom

moms at

school and then also a Sunday school

teacher as well at the church.

So yeah, she's doing a lot.

She keeps herself real active

and very involved in the kids' lives

obviously. Good mom.

And everybody says very doting mother. She's known as a kind and considerate neighbor.
One of the neighbors here had Alzheimer's and was not doing very well, so she was described and she would help out. She would go over and do things for this neighbor to help him out, which is nice every neighbor it's not a family member no you know um she was described by a former boss as a good employee when her husband allowed her to work which is an odd way to put it yeah yeah it's no and also it doesn't strike me as brenda is the she's the stronger personality in the marriage.

Yeah.

She's the one that was assertive enough to go get him.

Yeah.

So she to me, like just from everything I've heard from what everybody's described, if Brenda wants to work, Brenda is going to work.

Period.

Or if Brenda doesn't want to work, she's not going to work, but she's going to do what she wants to do.

And the only way Brenda is not going to work is if we have enough money for me to be the fashion stay at home mother that.

Yeah.

Wants to be.

Yeah.

And she wants to do all the volunteering stuff.

And she likes that.

Thank you. And the only way Brenda's not going to work is if we have enough money for me to be the old-fashioned stay-at-home mother that she wants to be.
Yeah, and she wants to do all the volunteering stuff, and she likes that. I mean, she likes to do things and stay busy, which is totally understandable, and I think she found ways to fill that with the other stuff here.
Brenda's cousin said that she was the glue that held her family together after their father died. So, I mean, it's, you know, she's, she's done it here.
Brenda helped raise and care for her brother till she, till she moved for school that she would help raise her mentally disabled brother as well. So, I mean, everybody says she's just, you know, a super sweet person and very helpful and, you know, type of person you can depend on.
Now, after she has the second kid, though, she starts to be a little bit wilder, starting to come into her own a little bit. And she's like 30, 32 here.
So, I mean. Time to have fun.
Yeah, and it takes a while to figure out who you are. Some people figure it out earlier than others.
Yeah. But nobody figures it out when they're 23.
No. respond being a responsible person doesn't really start until your 30s and your 30s are your 20s with money so you're responsible enough to understand that you don't yeah fingers crossed yeah yeah your 20s are just pissing away all your money because you don't have any you don't have it no and that's what it takes to survive.
It's got to be weird when people get famous when they're like 23 because they kind of have to stay that forever now because that's what everybody expects of you when you are not a fully developed person yet really. You don't know who you are.
That's what's the weird part. The best comedians are usually in their 40s and 50s because have never seen outside of like Eddie Murphy, you know what I mean? I've never, and that's a once in a fucking lifetime talent outside of that.
I've never seen someone who's 22 be funny and they can be funny for a joke, but for an hour they have nothing to say because nothing's happened to them yet. And that's not an insult.
It's just, yeah. And that.
Chappelle, by the way, was pretty funny. Early Chappelle was terrific.
He was great when he was 16, too. But Eddie Murphy said all I would talk about was taking a shit when I was younger because that's all I had done that was in his act.
What does that chunk want? And he did it as somebody else. As Richard Pryor, which is hilarious.
So Brenda gets wild here a little bit. Rob and Brenda start to grow apart a little bit here.
The guy who is the president of a headhunting and consulting firm who worked with Rob on hiring for the ad agency said that he met Brenda for the first time. And he and his wife had arrived at the restaurant.
They're all going out to dinner together. They arrived first and were waiting in the bar area when Rob and Brenda showed up.
The comment that was made, this is a quote from this guy, quote, the comment that was made was, who's the hoochie? Oh, boy. The hoochie.
Her dress was very tight, very short, with a lot of cleavage exposed she's going out to an adult dinner who cares she's not going to a girl scout meeting like that who gives a shit what she does so i would like to know who said who's the hoochie the comment that was made did you make it or your wife i would like to know that so he said that he pictured what rob who was openly religious at work being with someone who was way more you know buttoned up than this brenda's got her buttons open now so yeah she's already had a baby tupac wrote a song about it we're uh we're doing that. So 1997 comes along here.
And remember Rick Nunley? Yeah. We said, yeah, his wife works with Brenda, or worked with Brenda at the bank.
Well, Rick Nunley's an Oklahoma City reservoir engineer. Oh.
I guess you have to. You make some lakes? You'd have to engineer a reservoir.
You can't just say fill it with water. That looks like a good enough hole.
You gotta do some math. That's gotta be a boring ass job.
There's not a lot of those being made today, right? No. They're pretty much all made.
Yeah. I think the engineer probably works on the maintenance of it, too, and makes sure, like, you know, does the math of terms of...
Make sure it doesn't overflow? Yeah. I don't know what the fuck they do.
Or run dry. Something.
So, yeah, he met Brenda when she worked with his wife at the time, later to be ex-wife, at the bank.

The two couples, Rob and Brenda and Rick Nunley and his wife, were friends for about 10 years at this point.

They met in like 87.

So at this point, they've known each other for 10 years. By 1997 here, Brenda starts having an affair with Rick Nunley.
Brenda. Yeah, this is family friends.
Rick isn't divorced from his wife yet. This is two intact couples and the two partners here are going to go after each other.
Ruining Pictionary Night. Oh, Destroying Trivial Pursuit Night.
Destroying it. Destroying Trivial Pursuit Psalm Edition.
Is there one of those? Probably. It should be if there isn't because I bet it would sell.
So this continued and goes on and on and on for a while. And other people started to notice it, too.
This goes on for over a year, this affair. This isn't one and done.
Well, I mean... I mean, it's being hidden, but people are like, they're pretty fucking friendly with each other.
A little bit. Jennifer Jones, who was a college student at the time and a nanny back then, she babysat for Brendaa and recalled two occasions when she sensed something odd was going on she testified that once brenda told her that i'm gonna go get groceries and she left wearing a tight leather skirt and top to go to the grocery store well when she returned she had no groceries and wasn't wearing her wedding ring.
And her hair's a mess. Well, that's actually the next line, as she said, and her hair was a miss.
Incredibly disheveled. She came back with disheveled hair, no groceries, and minus a wedding ring.
I mean, she might as well have a hand mark on her ass. You know what I mean? Why don't you just carry your panties inside, lady?

She might as well have walked in and said,

do you have an extra morning after pill?

No?

Spinning your undies on your finger.

Yeah.

Like a six-shooter.

They were all out of groceries.

Spinning them like a six-shooter.

But they had plenty of man.

All out of groceries. Man-witch and man-a's.
Plenty of groceries. Spinning them like a six-shooter.
But they had plenty of man. All out of groceries.
They had man-witch and man-aids. Plenty of man.
And Rick Nunley over here knows Rob really well. They're buddies.
They go fishing and shit together, and he's screwing his wife. This is pretty bad shit for everybody involved here.
It's pretty fucked up. Another time, Brenda left wearing a, quote, provocative dress.
And Jennifer Jones said, I felt like something was going on, and I did not want to be a part of it. I don't want to be here just to help this lady cover up her affairs.
Like, that's fine. That's the least Jenny Jones you've done.
You've done Jenny Jones. She's always involved.
She wants to know everything. I want to know it all.
Tell me. And then so I held I staged a fucking a surprise ambush of Rob to tell him that his friend and his wife are fucking each other.
Another guy named Rod Lott, who used to work for Rob at Jordan and Associates. He said that he often accompanied Rob on business trips to Tulsa.

And he said that he and Rob once, he asked Rob once why he never told Brenda he loved her when they ended phone calls.

You don't tell your wife I love you at the end of your call.

Yeah.

What's up with that?

Yeah.

Lott said, quote, he said he tried to do that when they first got married, but she said

it made her feel uncomfortable and told him not to do it.

I don't want to tell you I love you. Don't tell me that.
It makes me feel guilty about this cock in my ass. Yeah, it makes me feel real weird.
Oh, man. So he also said, this friend said, quote, they hadn't had sex in years.
he would come home and see lingerie that would that, and he'd get his hopes up, and he'd get his feelings hurt in the end. Where's the lingerie going? If you come home, you see there's all this sexy underwear, and it's never on, or you'd be like, what the fuck is happening here? I saw it.
Why didn't it materialize? Hey, why don't you put that one thing on? Oh, I left it at, I mean, good God. So that affair ends in about 1997 or 98.
I'm sorry. Started 97 ends about mid 98.
Then in 2000, she has an affair with the dude who works at the grocery store. James Higgins is his name and he I guess he has like about

a 16 month The dude who works at the grocery store. Oh, my God.
James Higgins is his name.

And he, I guess he has like about a 16-month affair with Brenda as well. Wow.
He said that Brenda used to come into the store flirting with him and wearing, quote, low-cut tops and short skirts. Then one day, this is incredible, by the way.
If you work at a grocery store and you're like a young guy and you see like, you know, like these housewives coming in and some of them are like, you know, sexy. You're like, man, one of them is going to ask to hook up with me one of these days.
It's some weird, you know, teenage fantasy. Strange.
Ridiculous idea. Yeah.
Well, quote, one day she brought him a motel key and handed it to him and winked. that was that it was on nobody has ever ever that's some shit that happened to like frank sinatra in 1958 like some women after a vegas show and throw him a hotel key this is crazy can you imagine while you're stocking the fruit loops this lady's like here you go wow oh fuck yeah um so she gave him a key to a motel room they met that afternoon at the motel room and then these type of meetings occurred several times a week during those two years this wasn't like once in a while this was like every day they also had sex at the at her home you know the family home and in the car as well you know sometimes sometimes you just can't get a location you just got to throw down the front seat well what do you want it's front seat wide open goes all the way back yeah so uh all during this time brenda kept telling james Higgins how much she hated her husband.

She also told him that she wished Rob was dead.

Now, if you're this Higgins guy, you're going, anyway, you're not in this for all this seriousness.

So you're going to swallow that?

Wow.

So that's amazing.

So the affair continues. She ends up breaking things off with him in about May of 2001.
But the problem is she broke up with him because there's somebody else and it's not her husband. Oh, my God.
We'll talk about that. But there's other Brenda things that people say about Brenda in the neighborhood.

And I'm going to say, first off, this is a very conservative religious area. And people expect a different, I don't know.
They're a little judgier in terms of sexuality, in terms of just having any sexuality at all here at the time. But it's still like the year 2000 in the united states of america so it's really weird to be like oh look at her with her skirt on who cares and in tucson i mean in tucson what in 2000 yeah it's not it's not a out of bounds for a woman to be free with her sexuality i mean married and free with free with her sexuality is a bit much.
Married and fucking people from the grocery store is one thing. But going out in a skirt is a completely different.
Who cares? That's not an issue. Very normal.
Non-issue. But here's some stuff that happened here.
There were neighborhood boys that were doing some work on the Andrew family deck. I guess they were painting it or doing something.
They came home and told their mother that Brenda had come on to them. The group? These were like 15-year-olds.
Yeah. Like, she came out being all fucking, you know, whatever.
I don't know. Who wants some lemonade type of shit here? I've seen that's what i mean this is a this is a usually stars lisa ann and a bunch of pool boys usually movers yeah the movers are a bit or or pizza or pizza delivery which is the most unrealistic one because he's got other orders he needs to go deliver so also why are there three guys delivering one pizza seems inefficient someone's getting cold wings is what i'm saying in the end a lot of people a lot of people for an hour although when i was a teenager i delivered pizza and one time i delivered to this motel in fishkill and this lady opened the door she was like probably 45 or whatever i was like 17 she opened the door just nude and i just i not i wasn't into it because she was like older than my mom so i was just like that'll be 14 and like i was pretended like she wasn't naked it was the weirdest thing through the pizza box james hey i brought you pizza for you what do you say extra sauce it's extra so you know what you want italian sausage on that I got you covered for you.
What do you say? Extra sausage. It's extra.
So, what do you want? Italian sausage on that? There it is. I got you covered, honey.
So, she also told a friend of hers that she liked having workmen at her house and used them to babysit. What? Watch my kids for a minute.
I'm going to go hook up with the guy from the grocery store. The least, oh my God.
Yeah, like roofers and shit. Yeah, that's who you want what you want.
He does that because he's getting paid under the table because he's a felon lady. Yeah.
Apparently at one point she heard that a guy she knew liked redheads. So she dyed her hair red and told her friend about it.
Okay. And then at another time, this is non-sexual completely.
During an argument with a plumber, she threatened to kill him. Which I don't think a lot of plumbers get death threats from housewives, so she's like, this is wild.
So anyway, she breaks up with the grocery store guy, James Higgins, to find another James, a guy named James Pavott. P-A-V-A-T-T or Pavott, however you want to fucking say it.

James.

He's born in 1952, so he's about 11 years older than her.

Yeah.

He's an insurance broker at Prudential he works for.

He's described in a newspaper as, quote, an Arkansas native.

Pavott had the aw shucks grin of a schoolboy and a face that would look at home in a bluegrass festival.

He seems as though as dry wheat toast and about as memorable this is hilarious hideous and boring the preacher that at the church he attended every week yeah said that he remembered pavot existing but couldn't really recall anything he ever said. That's how nondescript you are.
It feels like he probably breathed in my church. Like, I know he's been around, but like, you know what I'm saying? I don't know anything he's ever said at any point in time.
So that's interesting. Now, he was in the Air Force for a while, and he was, I guess, a police officer in the Air Force, like an MP there.
And he was at Tinker Air Force Base for a while in the 80s. He tells everybody he was in the Special Forces and killed a bunch of people, but his military records don't mention any of that.
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Spice it up when you're that boring man. No shit.
The pastor who literally saves you every week can't remember you. Anything you ever said.
I think I kept him from hellfire. I don't know.
No, no, no. Actually, I remember something he talked about.
Something to do with Jesus. I'm not sure exactly, but I'm pretty sure that was the thrust of the conversation.
What're getting at there yeah so uh other people have said that james told them he had a second or a secret job in which he killed people as well who tells people that first of all so he before he worked for prudential life company he attended the university of oklahoma then enlisted in the Air Force. He's a military police officer.
From 74 to 95, we're talking career Air Force guy. He served in Korea, Guam, Alaska, Mississippi.
He picked up a wife in Korea, too, that we'll talk about. He does.
He has a Korean wife. He also did a multi-year stint at the Tinker Air Force Base.
Records do not indicate that Pavitt saw

combat or received any specialized

commando training, as he claims.

In fact, aside from

basic training, he attended only three other

courses, including two academies for

non-commissioned officers and a supervisory

development course.

So, like...

Yeah, like administrative shit,

not like, you know...

This is how you break a neck like Steven Seagal

and advisory development course so like jesus yeah like administrative shit not like you know boring this is how you break a neck like steven seagal in a movie like one hand next nap that's how you do it breaking next he's not even breaking down the m16 james nothing no there's no record that he ever killed anyone either in his military shit here now brenda and james they meet while attending the same church. Okay.
Now, how do they meet? Well, Rob and James. She noticed him.
Rob and James are both church deacons. Isn't that nice? And they know each other real well.
And then she's, oh, here's my lovely wife. Oh, that's great.
And then he's like, I'd like to also have sex with her. Yeah the Pavitt and Andrews family socialized together.
Yeah, they ate dinner at each other's houses and all that shit. Rob Andrews brother who rode in a truck with James Pavitt for hours on a hunting trip didn't think he'd ever met this guy he this is crazy he never thought he met the guy until later on when he saw them on videotape together even though he had spent hours in a truck with him on a hunting trip that's how nondescript he is you're in a three by three enclosed space with someone for hours and you don't remember them forgettable wow this guy is just forgettable that is crazy um even this is wild even james pavitt's attorney called him a quote little poindexter guy so he doesn't seem like the type of guy where you'd be like marriage be damned i need that cock it's just doesn't seem like that kind of guy but on from his for his oh his vantage point i can blend into everything i'll go down on her and she'll forget me in 10 minutes she won't even know i'm down there for christ's sake she'll forget that i went down there he has like 45 kids but he doesn't pay any child support because none of the women can remember ever having sex with him.
It's incredible. It's wild.
So Brenda and James started teaching Sunday school classes together. And obviously the mix of the children and the Jesus got them all horned up for each other.

If you can't get all sexified when you're teaching Jesus to children, I don't know when you can, really. On a Sunday morning, also.
None of these things lend to any sexuality. So they do.
They began having a sexual affair at this point. around this same time conveniently

Brenda tells Rob he really should get some life insurance, I think. And you should get it through with Prudential through James.
He can hook you up. So Rob ends up with a life insurance policy worth about $800,000.
That's a big one. That's a pretty decent one.
But he makes good money. So, I mean, it makes sense.
He's making $150,000 a year or something. So it's fucking wild.
So anyway, he's got his – James sells him this policy, and Brenda is the beneficiary, obviously. Now, over the summer, this summer of 2001, after they start hooking up,ames divorces his wife oh really oh yeah he serves her with divorce papers credential dork is done he's done uh sue suck you pavitt is his wife's name s-u-k i'd marry her too you know separate name h u i yeah suck you i mean get the fuck yeah he met her and he was like no no no no i don't want that she was like that's my name and he's like i don't have any money and she's like no you don't get it yes Yes, ma'am.
So, yeah, she was shocked when her husband brought up a divorce, she said. Shocked.
I'm sure. I bet.
She's like, I've been doing it all. She said that at first James told her that he wanted a divorce because she didn't get along with his family.
Yeah, because all of his brothers. That's they see her, they just pull their dick out.
That's not getting along. So James then said the divorce was for her protection at that point.
Listen, I didn't want to tell you this. It's not about my family.
It's actually for your own protection because of problems with his previous duty in the special forces.

You know, like the Mossad's after him or something.

Like he's got some.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on, but he's got.

I'm the dark angel of South Korea.

They know.

That's crazy.

Suck you said he said, I know.

Sook, I'm sure it is, but still.

Sook you sounds like you're just sounds like a korean version of suck you so uh she said quote he said korea was the only place that was safe in the whole world and sent her to korea go back to korea she said she stayed a short time in korea before returning to Oklahoma City because he told her that he had made the biggest mistake of his life later on. Then she said, when I got back there, she said, I found a different man than I knew before.
She said, quote, he wasn't the same Jim I knew for nine years. He was the most kind person while we were married.

Something was not right with him. So he switched it up a little bit here.
Now, through all of this, Rob is not an idiot. That's the other thing.
Rob suspects that his wife and James are having an affair. He just does.
I mean, it's got to be kind of obvious. You know what I mean? Everybody else knows.
Now, Suk-Yu said, we'll say it like that. She said that James denied having an affair with Brenda because she confronted him, too.
Are you having an affair with the church lady? No, I'm not. Okay.
While in South Korea, she said she received divorce papers from James to sign in return, and they were divorced September 6th. He sent her there telling her to be safe there.
She came back and then went back to Korea, and then he just mailed her divorce papers. Take these.
She said that, yeah, he was just a different guy when she had come back to Oklahoma. She said he was nervous.
He wasn't the same person. Yeah.
Nervous. You're going to catch me plowing Brenda here.
She said that he said that the other thing is he said, you have to go back to Korea because I want I need to protect myself and protect you. And suck.
You said he said Rob was accusing him of something. So now she also his wife also said that they had money problems about thirty thousand dollars in credit card debt oh that's rough and in 2001 that's even more money that's deep yeah so she um yeah she said when she learned about the debt in january 2001 she made arrangements with the credit card companies to make specific monthly payments in an effort to pay off the bills.
Do a structured, yeah. They were, I guess, paying $1,500 a month on credit cards trying to pay it back.
Damn. Man, that is rough.
She said, I had to drop out of school to pay off the credit cards. I asked him if he paid my school off.
He said he did, but he didn't for the divorce. And sending her back with all her own fucking student debt.

Enjoy.

Terrible.

She said, I believed him 100%.

He was the most lovable man in the whole world.

I still care for him.

Well, that's going to be crazy.

Then also she said that James, to get her back to Korea,

to get her an airline ticket to Korea since they don't have any money, James, quote, borrowed a credit card from Brenda and Rob. So he said, I need money to send my wife back to Korea so we can fuck at my house.
And she was like, well, use my Amex. And that was that.
so September 19th, 2001, Brenda and James are brought into the principal's office there at the North Point Baptist Church because of concerns about their actions. And they are told they are not allowed to teach Sunday school anymore.
Yeah, because you're a problem. You're two married people fucking each other in the in the well i guess one married person now but yeah for all intents and purposes one got rid of their spouse to continue this fucking it's not good we know what you're doing then at that's in september 19th in the next 10 days or so before the beginning of october brenda asks rob to move out of the house as well have a nice house too.
It's like a 6,000 square foot fucking house. It's a nice big old house, man.
It's nice. If you could get out, that'd be wonderful.
You could just ignore the person if you don't like them. Just stay on the other side of the house.
That's two houses. There's three houses in there.
It's like 6,400 square feet. That's three decent sized houses.
Two big houses, three nice houses. It's big big so um and he does he moves out a next door neighbor recalled seeing uh james's truck at the residence with increased frequency after that then he was stopping by they said it was very common to see james's truck in the andrews driveway shortly after brenda had put the kids on the school bus.
He pulls right in. Man, that is crazy.

James also, for

six years, driveway shortly after brenda had put the kids on the school bus he pulls right in um man that is crazy he james also told for some reason told his adult daughter uh jana or yana j-a-n-n-a is that yana that's jana right jana jana yeah it's oklahoma it's jana um told his adult daughter jana that he was having a sexual relationship with bre Brenda. I bet you can't wait to tell your daughter about your sexual relationships.
I have an adult daughter. I would never tell her anything about sex about me.
It's crazy. She doesn't want to know, and I don't want to tell her.
I'll brace her if she gets to meet anybody, but I'm not telling her about conquests. But even if you were with somebody and you wanted her to meet them, you wouldn't be like, I'm having a sexual relationship with her.
She just probably assumed that, I would assume. Hey, Press, this is Tabitha.
I go down on her a lot. I go down on her.
No, she's reciprocal. She returns the favor we have a really good time when i kiss you on the cheek so he also told janna that uh his plan was to marry brenda and have a child with her i'm gonna fucking put one i'm gonna put one in the oven there hello adult child i'm starting all over again starting all over even though i've already started all over yeah from your mom this is the third time so brenda um continued to talk about to anybody that she could especially even the grocery store guy who she's not even having an affair with anymore yeah about that she hates rob hates her husband at one point she told him i don't know if this is you know right outside the fucking Red Baron frozen pizzas or what but she told him that she wished Rob would just die so she could get the money and go on with her life anyway lemons two for one yeah so October 1st 2001 remember Rick Nunley the first affair she had there right yeah okay well Brenda Rick Nunley, the first affair she had there?

Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, Brenda and Nunley, for some reason, she keeps in contact with him on the phone all the time. She's always talking on the phone with this guy.
Why not? It's like a dick in a glass case. In case of emergency, break glass and you got this.
So they did that. Nunley met Brenda in downtown Oklahoma downtown oklahoma city about the first of october of october and brenda told him that she's going to get a divorce that's what she said um she's going to get a divorce rob moved out of the house at some point uh during the month of october here brenda told nunley that she was upset about rob trying to change the beneficiary on the life insurance policy oh we'll find out why cell phone records indicate that 87 phone calls between brenda and nunley were were completed during the months of september october and november 2001 it's about 30 about one a day that averages talk to this motherfucker every day.
Every day. Every goddamn day.
Outside of my wife and probably you, there's not a lot of people I talk to every day. There's, yeah, there's not a lot.
You know, like, that's every day is a lot. I don't even talk to my mom every day.
No, no. She's sick.
Yeah. I haven't talked to my dad in three weeks.
He's got stage four cancer. Yeah, that's what I's a lot so every day is a lot it's just you really gotta want that um now october 3rd 2001 brenda files for divorce okay officially rob doesn't want a divorce he wants to get back together that's what he wants um he told his friends brenda could have the house the money whatever but he just wants to be able to share custody of the kids.
That's it. He just loves the kids and he doesn't want to lose the kids.
So October 26, 2001, our first police involvement happens here. Okay.
Buildings are smoldering on the other side of the country. Absolutely.
We got worse shit happening here. Yeah.
So on this day, he spotted some fluid under his car when he went to get in his car. And he's getting in his car for a very specific reason because he's been called and told to go somewhere because Brenda's been hurt in a car accident.
Oh, my. Yeah.
He's been told to go to the hospital. But he spotted fluid under his car.
So he drove to a repair shop that was very close by, and they told him, your brake lines have been cut. Yeah.
How'd you make it here? Yeah. They were like, I guess it was still in the lines, whatever was in the lines.
So they said, your brake line's not ripped, cut clearly intentionally, obviously. Someone cut them.
They don't just explode in a perfect cut. Right.
In the most available spot for wire cutters to get to. Yeah.
So Rob calls 911 because he's like. That's attempted murder.
Yeah. He says to the 911 operator, tells her what happened, then says, that sounds like attempted murder, don't you think? Yeah.
Right? Yeah. Someone tried to kill me right yeah so yeah he started i guess him and brenda have been fighting as well she's been flooding him with accusatory calls and leaving messages on his answering machine that are really nasty and yelling at him and openly telling everyone she knows that she hates him openly Openly.
Oh, boy. So he tells police that he thought that Brenda and James were plotting to kill him.
They said, that's who cut my brake lines. This is fucking nuts.
He goes, I got phone calls. The reason I was even going anywhere to find out my brake lines were cut is I got mysterious phone calls telling me that Brenda was in the hospital and was in a car accident.
So that's what this was. And we'll find out where those phone calls came from.
He got phone calls from a man and a woman telling him this. You need to go to the hospital and get Brenda or go see Brenda.
So, yeah, he tells police that he suspects his wife and James are having an affair. He says that James is very angry with him and, quote, has talked about being a special forces commando and that he's killed numerous people while in the military.
Yeah, they teach you how to cut brake lines. Yeah, that's the go to there.
Yeah, that's that's how we took down Hitler. That's what it was.
It wasn't, you know, just the Russians and us invading and it wasn't D-Day or any of that stuff brake lines he went right off a cliff right off a cliff like a soap opera wee poof so yeah this is good that he notified the police anyway he told his friend though it feels like he has a target on his back now he has to he has to check his car before he gets in it like a gangster yeah you know like you want to start my car for me so um the next day brenda called rob after the brake cutting incident and said that she read in the newspaper that someone cut his brakes are you okay in the newspaper it was not in the newspaper covered it. Why would she say that? She figured it would be a story.
Uh-huh. But it wasn't.
And the only people who knew that the brake lines were cut were Rob, the mechanic, the police, and fucking Brenda, obviously. I read a news story of you careening off a cliff.
Are you okay? You good? What? Is that okay? I made it to a garage where they fixed my brake lines. You cut, you psychotic bitch.
You fucking asshole. So that's interesting.
Now, another thing is the insurance here. After his brakes were cut, he inquired about removing Brenda completely as a beneficiary.
Yeah. So the problem, this is fucking wild here.
He asked James that because James is his insurance guy. So he thinks James just tried to kill him.
But yet he goes to James because that's his insurance guy. Yeah.
So this is fucked up. At one point, by the way, there is a change of ownership form that's backdated to 2001.
That's going to be suspicious. But anyway, Rob goes and tells and says to Jamie James, he wants to change it.
Now, James tells him you can't change it because you're not the owner of the policy. She is.
That's not true, though. No.
So Rob then went to James's boss and said, can I change this beneficiary? I, you know, what the fuck here? And the guy said, of course you can. It's your policy.
You're the, you're the owner of it. You pay for it.
You can change it to anybody you want. You can have Michael Jackson get it if you want.
He wasn't dead yet. I said who it is.
It doesn't matter. So they said that when James found out that Rob had went over his head at work, he was furious and called Rob up and said, quote, if you think you have problems with Brenda, you haven't seen anything until you've messed with me.
Okay. Now, while all this is going on, Rob is keeping a journal.
This is his prayer journal apparently we should have all

changed our life insurance policy people to ed mcmahon and surprised the shit out of him every single day that would have been amazing why do people keep giving me money i'm making a ton every day every day prudential and state farm they're all by the way ringing my doorbell who. Who did Ed McMahon work for besides Johnny Carson? Oh, I don't know.
What's the name of the people who come to the door? Publishers Clearinghouse. Nope.
What was it? Isn't that amazing? Is it not Publishers Clearinghouse? No. He worked for another one that popped up to compete with Publishers Clearinghouse, and everyone thinks that Ed McMahon worked for Publishers Clearinghouse.
Oh, my God. He has never worked for Publishers Clearinghouse for a day.
It was a different one. Isn't that amazing? Get out of here.
That blew my mind. I just heard that the other day.
It wasn't even Publishers Clearinghouse. No, no.
Every reference ever was, this better be Publishers Clearinghouse and Ed McMahon with a big old fucking check for me. The guy who, one of the guys who was running Publishers Clearinghouse wrote a book and was like everyone thinks it's ed mcmahon never had mcmahon he goes but we got the most free advertising out of that because you just put him with that with that yeah yeah what was the clearinghouse i don't know what american whatever the fuck publishing who the hell knows but it doesn't matter it was american family publishers there you go even publishers no it wasn't about't even Publishers.
No, it wasn't. How about that? Isn't that crazy?

Nobody's ever heard of American.

Whatever the fuck.

And you gave away a bunch of money advertising it, you dumb fucks.

That's right.

They still made a fortune.

So in Rob's prayer journal, he wrote that God would intervene and allow him to reunite

with Brenda and the children.

Okay.

God's going to come fix this all.

He wanted a change of heart, a recommitment to marriage and faith, and he wanted his life back, he said. One of his entries, he said, I am in great pain.
This is on November 12th. He said, I know that if I face these problems and allow God to work, he will show me a way of escape.
Later on that month, he wrote, this is November 19th, he wrote, I have faith in God. I should walk with assurance of the things I hope for, a relationship with my kids, a loving wife, a home that worships, laughs, plays, and loves.
So November 18th, 2001, Brenda buys the kids a new puppy. Oh, that was nice.
A Yorkie. I guess they have a, the son has a Chihuahua, but the daughter doesn't really like the Chihuahua, and the daughter's dog has...
Chihuahua? It's a New York accent. Chihuahua.
Chihuahua? Chihuahua? I don't know. What do you want from me? Say I like the fucking...
Like the store in Philly. What the fuck do you want from me? What do you want from me? I don't know.
Fuck you want from me. Say like the fucking, like the, like the store in Philly.
The fuck you want from me. Fuck you want from me.
I don't know. You say that fun.
All right. So they don't like the Chihuahua.
So they got that. And then they also have, uh, the, the daughter's dog had died a few months ago.
So they had to put it down. So they get the daughter a Yorkie.
They get Tri-City a Yorkie. They get 11 pounds of dogs in this house.

Two dogs.

I didn't even mean to call her Tri-City.

I meant to call her Tricity, and I called her Tri-City.

Tri-City gets a Yorkie.

Hard.

They said the girl's grandmother, this is Rob's mother,

said she got that dog on Monday, and all day Monday they tried to get Rob to come over and see it. The kids were.
They said he went over there with a friend, but something happened, and I go, don't think he got a chance to see the dog then. What happened was he went over with a guy named Ronnie Stump, a friend of his.
It's his best friend. And they went over to the house to see the dog.nda got livid that he brought someone over even though it's his best friend she's known him for 10 years or whatever 15 years yeah livid and said that no way you're not wouldn't let him in the house because he brought a friend over he even said ronald wait in the car and he was she was like no you brought someone here you can go now get out so rob was really discouraged obviously um here and um he was talking to stump here about all this and you know later on that night he ended up going back to the house without stump to see the dog okay uh the this is his mother said this quote rob's mother he did say that he went back over there later that night to see the dog.
Tricity was just insistent on it. She kept calling late at night.
It was like 10 o'clock. He went back over and Brenda brought the dog out to the car, but he never did get to see Tricity.
It didn't make sense to him. Imagine her just like holding the, look, here it is.
See it? All right. Holding it up to the window.
I guess pet it once or twice. See what you think.
Pounds of adorable. Look at it.
Look at it. Now that same day, the puppy thing and all of this on this same day, James buys a 22 caliber revolver from an Oklahoma City gun dealer on that same day.
Yeah. The Prudential guy.
November 19th, the next day, 2001, there's a phone call here. I guess this is to a friend of hers who is the mother of one of Tricity's friends.
Okay. She called this lady up, Brenda does, Cynthia is her name.
And repeatedly declared how much she hated Rob. Here's a quote from Cynthia.
Quote, I hate him. I hate him.
I hate him. I was shocked the way she said she hated him.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's a lot of hate. I hate him.
I hate him. Three hates.
November 20th, 2001. Here we go.
Now it's all coming closer together. Rob is supposed to pick the children up for the long Thanksgiving weekend.
All right. He pulls up.
While he pulls up, he's on the phone, on a cell phone call with his friend Ronnie Stump. Yep.
And as he's speaking to Stump, he says abruptly, I've got to go.

They're coming out.

And he hangs up.

He was in the driveway finishing up the conversation.

The next thing you know, about 10 minutes later, 15 minutes later, there's a 911 call.

And it's Brenda calling 911.

And she says, quote, I've been shot.

Oh. My husband and I, we've been shot oh my husband and i we've been shot oh yeah she said we were in the garage and my husband me and my husband and he's got blood all over him that's at 6 20 that call is made p.m um she said they'd been shot in the garage by assailants wearing black masks that's's what she said.
Now, by the way, our Patreon could not be more apt for this because that sounds crazy. Hit squad shit, yeah.
Wait till you hear our Patreon this way. It's insane.
So anyway, this is what's going on. And in a second call, which ended at 6.26 p.m., she said that Rob was bleeding a lot, but he was conscious, trying to talk terrific okay when the police arrived rob's car's in the driveway garage door it was up brenda's van is in the garage he's got a minivan like a maroon minivan rob is lying flat on his back on the garage floor in a pool of blood brenda is sitting about three feet away in the doorway between the garage and the house just staring staring down now uh they're right away they said are there children in this house right and where yes there are oh shit where the fuck are they yeah cops go in they look for the kids the kids are perfectly safe and sound in the back bedroom room furthest from the garage the door was shut and the tv was on to what the the officer described the volume raised to a very uncomfortable level like loud for no reason loud as fuck like kids like loud but this is like whoa like you walk in a holy shit it's on like you know 97 you're like no no no turn that down so um that's a lot here um he had come to pick the kids up and now he's on the floor so this isn't good she said that they said well what the fuck happened she said well i asked him if he could come and help me the pilot light in the garage was getting was acting weird so i asked if he could relight it for me and he said yeah sure the hot water heater i guess yeah i guess the furnace is out there and he followed her and he squatted beside the furnace and that's when this all happened now he is also clutching an trash bag filled with empty soda cans as well.
They found him because he recycles and he was trying to spread the word of recycling. Not only does he spread the word about Jesus, he spreads the word about recycling.
So he said, oh, strangers are here. Let me tell you about the virtues of this.
Johnny Recycle Seed. That's it.
That's me, baby. They think he grabbed it and tried to protect him, like just grabbed whatever and was holding it up.

I mean, people hold their hands up.

He was holding up a bag of empty cans, which didn't do much with gunshots that riddled his body, as we'll talk about here.

Wow.

So emergency personnel arrive.

He's on the floor of the garage.

He's got extensive blood loss, and they're unable to revive him. Rob is dead.
He's declared dead on the floor of the garage. Now, Brenda also has a gunshot wound to her arm, but it's a very superficial wound.
Oh, great. Kind of a gray, just a flesh wound, basically.
So she is taken out of the garage to the curb to be treated and asked what the fuck happened, basically.

She told police at the scene that there were two armed assailants

wearing black masks and black clothes that came in.

She said they only said, these assailants only said six or seven words to her,

but she couldn't remember any of them, what they were.

There are so few, I don't remember a single one.

And I remember none of them. Must have been James, he's so forgetful.
He's very forgetful. Wow, yeah.
So also, she said the assailants fled the scene on foot, is what she said. They took off.
There was no car parked outside or anything like that. They took off.
Several guys. So a patrolman who had responded to this place here, his name is Roger Frost.
He said he's been to several hundred crime scenes, 20 or 30 homicides. He's one of the first officers to arrive.
He described Brenda's behavior as strange that evening. He said she wasn't hysterical, as is usually the case.
Instead, he said that she was very calm and able to answer questions straight on, and that every once in a while she would sort of cry, but it seemed fake to him. Now, this is not a good gauge of someone's truthfulness, though, because everybody, they've done countless studies, everybody reacts different to this type of shit.
Everybody. Some people get super calm because there's stuff to be done and they get in that mode some people are hysterical you know some people are what you've experienced in life everybody handles shit different if it's your first time with grief and murder and yeah you're gonna have a problem it's what like as crazy as i am i'm great in a crisis.
If something's going on, like, I am, let's focus.

I'm like a fucking military precision.

I freak out afterwards.

And I'm like, now that that's over, but while it's going on, no need to get crazy.

Let's fucking focus on what's happening.

So maybe she's just doing that.

Who knows?

We don't know.

So when asked what she did after the shots were fired, she said she went into the kitchen to get the phone to call 911 and then checked on the kids in the bedroom and then came back to the garage from there. The problem is there.
There's no blood trail leading. She's bleeding from the arm.
There's no from the arm. Didn't go in.
No blood trail or any blood in the house at all. There's no blood inside the house.
And she said she went in, walked all the way to the other side of the house and back, but never dripped a drop of blood. And that is strange.
They didn't even find blood on the receiver of the phone, which is, again, odd. So, yeah, she said that this is they said start from the beginning.
She said, I stepped outside the house and opened the garage door. The children remained in the house.
She said, I brought a pet carrier to Rob's car and asked him to help turn the furnace back on, help light the pilot. Rob was dressed in long sleeve, blue shirt, plaid socks, burgundy dress shoes, followed her inside, knelt down behind the heating unit, and went to work on lighting it.
The police found burnt matches on the floor nearby, but the pilot light still unlit. Okay.
So he was trying to do it. So she said he was squatting with his back to the garage entrance at the nose of the maroon minivan, which was off to his right, leaving a narrow alley between the passenger side of the vehicle and the east wall of the garage.
As you know, if it's a one-car garage, there's not a lot of room there. So from that point there, she says that she told police that she and her husband were disturbed by voices outside the garage.
They heard something and they were like, what's going on? Two men rushed in, faces concealed by the dark masks. They were outside.
She said Rob turned around and a shot rang out and it hit him. She said he picked up a trash bag filled with cans and held it in front of him like a shield, which is just you know that's that's that sucks man the second shot was fired she says that hit her in the arm and then a third shot was fired after that that hit him again so they went and then they just took off on foot didn't want anything just wanted to murder them in the garage apparently good time to Just shoot at that's it not even the minivan they didn't want so um acting on their information police began searching for these people that struck without motive or anything else all over the place and they were like i don't understand it there's only one escape route on the street and it's at a time of day when there's a lot of activity.
It's 6 o'clock at night. People are coming home from work.
They're going out to the grocery store. They're doing things.
The men are never found in the neighborhood. Oh.
No one else on the street saw anybody wearing all black, in masks, carrying guns, nothing. Even just two guys.
They didn't see any of that. Nobody saw anything.
No one in the neighboring areas saw them either running away.

So they didn't know,

you know,

there's none of that.

Yeah.

Uh,

that frost officer said about Brenda,

she was crying like fake crying.

She wasn't hysterical like most people involved in this kind of crime.

So he said,

you know, he's,

he had this frost guy said he's familiar with the neighborhood because he's

worked,

he works as an extra job as security in this neighborhood for the last 13 years. And he had written a driver a traffic ticket in front of their house less than an hour before the shootings.
Just a minute ago he was there. I was just in front of this fucking house, he said.
And so he was doing these extra patrols because Brenda had asked the security company for extra patrol around her home after they separated. She was saying she was scared of Rob.
Really? Yeah, which there doesn't seem to be much reason to be scared of Rob. He does not like that.
So the wounds here, Rob was shot twice with a 16-gauge shotgun found a spent 16 gauge shotgun shell was found in the garage on top of the family van was she shot and grazed with a shotgun too no we'll talk about that now rob owned a 16 shotgun, but had told several friends

that Brenda refused to let him take it

when they separated.

And it's usually in a closet in the bedroom.

The shotgun is missing from the home, by the way.

Uh-oh.

Yes.

One witness, by the way,

comes forward and says

they saw Brenda at an area used for target practice

near her family's rural Garfield County home eight days before this murder and later found several 16 gauge shotgun shells at the site out there.

Now, Brenda's wound was caused by a 22 caliber bullet.

Who's got one of those?

Prudential man just bought one.

So Rob was shot once in the side and once in the neck god damn with a shotgun from pretty close range pellets from the first shot entered his right lung trachea and liver the second shot came downward into his neck so right over him it's cold-blooded making a fist-sized tear in the skin fuck that is horrifying man and hitting his aorta yeah a medical examiner said that the wounds would cause him to bleed bleed to death in less than 10 minutes 10 fucking. And by the way.
10 fucking minutes with those shots? Ouch. Whether there's no way he was conscious and trying to talk probably with half of his neck missing.
Yeah, you can't talk with your, yeah. That would be hard.
Now, Brenda, they asked Brenda, you know, they're talking about the shotgun and all that. And she tells police if the shotgun were still in the house, because they say, are there any shotguns in your house? Yeah.

And she said if there was in the house, it would be in the hall or the bedroom closet.

So there's that.

Now, James Higgins, who, by the way, was helping Rob move out of the house.

Oh, God.

Jesus Christ.

He said he saw the shotgun in the bedroom closet back then, which was a month ago, a month and a half ago. The murder weapon is never found.
We'll talk about it. But the evidence shows that he was shot with a single shot shotgun.
Yes, he had to reload. Reload, which would make sense for the one shell.
If you cock it, the shell pops out. That's on top of the minivan.
And then the second shell is probably still in the gun. Because that's not one that automatically ejects, correct? Right, right, right.
You've got to take those out. You've got to break it, yank it out, and throw a new one in.
Exactly. There's no rack in it.
Single-shell shotguns are useless. That's what I kind of thought.
I'm glad I had that half correct. It's a children's gun.
It's a shotgun. It's a 16 gauge.
A 20 gauge is really for the 15 to 16 year old boys. You can murder a man pretty easily with it.
You can certainly hurt people with them. Yeah.
It seems like it's, don't talk shit about it. It seems like it's doing its work.
I'm not belittling it. I'm just saying single shot's not necessarily a great murder weapon.
No, no, it's not. If you miss, you're in deep shit.
Yeah. So, yeah, they're talking about, you know, they think he was trying to shield himself with cans and all of that kind of thing.
So they say, she goes on to say that, and all the facts say he might have been conscious for a few minutes. Oh, few minutes during this.
Now, in the door leading from the garage into the house, they found an embedded metal projectile. So they find an embedded bullet.
Because it was mashed up, they couldn't figure out the caliber at the scene, but upon expert examination, it was determined to be a .22 caliber. So that's the one that went through Brenda's arm.
I think it's her left bicep,

like right on the side there.

I'm trying to remember the picture,

which side it was on.

So when she called James

to ask him about it,

because, or did she find it or did they find it?

Yeah, I guess they found it here.

Oh, the projectile was damaged, like we said. It was too damaged to conclusively determine the manufacturer.
So the state presented later on, they have experts to say the projectile was consistent with .22 caliber live rounds collected over the course of the investigation that we'll find. Now, there's a live round that she finds in the house, and when she called James to ask him about it, he told her to throw the bullet away and not tell anybody about it.
Don't say anything. Shut up.
Yeah, that's real interesting there. And by the way, the shot to Brenda is in the back of her arm, so it looks impossible to be self-inflicted, basically.
So Brenda's taken to the hospital for treatment. Her behavior was described by several witnesses.
And these are people in the hospital that deal with this all the time as uncharacteristically calm for a woman whose husband had just been gunned down in front of her. And she was shot also.
It was wild. So the Brenda says she agrees to speak with police because she wanted to help the police catch those responsible for shooting her husband she said so she's taken to be questioned still with the smock on and everything from the hospital and she really has no fucking choice i mean she's she's uh they got to talk to her you were there we need we need information out of you yeah so the detective tells her you're a a suspect.
Don't worry. You know, all that.
After the interview, they took her to a friend's house and everything. Like, you know, they tried to be whatever.
She was not under arrest at any time, never handcuffed or restrained or anything like that. The police, the problem is here, I guess she is wounded and medicated at the time.
So they're still trying to talk to her. She repeatedly told the officers she needed to leave, and the officers would ask more questions rather than letting her leave.
So at one point, about an hour and 20 minutes into the interview, she said, can I go see my kids? And they just didn't answer, and they just kept talking. Forty minutes later, she asked again if she could go care for her children.

And the detective told her she could only leave after they finished the questioning.

Now, by that time, she she's by the time she ends up being released from the police station, it's after one o'clock in the morning.

And they said that a lot of the questions were pointed and confrontational. Here's five questions that are considered accusatory here.
About 30 minutes into the interview, a police detective asks Brenda what had been going on with Rob, why he'd moved out, and what they fought about, which is reasonable. He's dead.
You're trying to divorce him. He also, then the detective, left the room for about 20 minutes when he returned he asked brenda if she had loved or hated her husband because he probably went and talked to someone who said i hate him i hate him i hate him is what she's been saying and expressing a belief that she seemed to lack emotion and they said did you hate him that much that you don't show any emotion about it and then then he said, how do you feel about the fact that he's dead now?

Then the detectives pressed her on her affairs, her relationship with James, the increases in the life insurance policy. This guy's got an $800,000 life insurance policy.
You're having an affair and just filed for divorce. And you hate him.
And you hate him, hate him, hate him. So, I mean, obviously we have to talk to you.
The detective then asked her about the incident with the brake lines, asking if Rob had suspected her of the cutting of the brake lines. Near the end of the interview, the detective questioned her about her promiscuity and said, how many guys did Rob accuse you of having affairs with? And then they asked her if she was currently having an affair.
At times during the investigation, she curled up in the fetal position, knees pulled up

to her chest under the hospital gown, wounded arm dressed and wrapped across her chest,

back hunched over the chair of the interrogation room.

So she's just shrinking.

Yeah.

That's not good.

Like a mental patient.

Well, when you shrink, that usually means you're trying to get away to protect yourself yeah so it's brenda was the only living eyewitness to the crime so i mean it was because she was complaining that they took her in there and asked her all these questions it's like yeah we're trying we got according to you we have two wild murderers out there who randomly shoot people we'd'd like to catch them. You know what I mean? In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.
This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him. We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world.
And the suspect. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione.
Became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was targeted, premeditated, and meant to sow terror.
I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi, produced by Law and Crime and Twist. This is more than a true crime investigation.
We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever. He's awoken the people to a true issue.
Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our health care system. Listen to Law and Crimes Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus.
You can join Wondery Plus on the Wonderyery app spotify or apple podcasts um that's very interesting here uh and um they said that it was very strange that she couldn't remember the words spoken by her attackers any of them not one even a gist something it's it's when you've got a gun around and one's been fired you start remembering those things that happen in that moment you never forget them no and then evidence that the crime scene is starting to be a little goofy too here there's no blood trail in the house even though brenda said that after being shot she ran from the garage to grab the phone and check on her two children no blood trail not even blood on of the telephone. Also, the police find out about the affair.
They ask her about that and everything like that. Then they go, once they find out about the affair, they go search James' apartment.
They search his apartment and they seize a name change document. Oh.
That's got stuff on it filled out. A black book containing a list of weapons and ammunition and two .22 caliber bullets.
Not the type used to shoot in the murder here, but different type. .22 caliber, not the shotgun shells.
So then all of a sudden, Brenda and Rob's next door neighbor, Dean Dean Gigstad, pops up here. Yeah.
Now, Dean says here they found some suspicious things in their home, and they call the police. In their house.
In their house. They had been on vacation the night of the shooting.
And by the way, Brenda has a key to their house. Oh.
Okay. The families would get together over time, and eventually, he said, you know, he gave them a key to their house in case I'm out of town and something's going on or, you know, it's good to have somebody extra have a key to your house just in case.
Also, if you lose your keys, you can go get a key for Brenda. He said that Brenda had that key for years.
Now, they said they were on the gig stats were on a retirement trip to. Before leaving town, they helped the Andrews break in a new hot tub.
Ew. Yeah, I was like, that's gross.
That doesn't sound very churchy. You guys are talking about Hoochie Mama.
You're all in a hot tub together. Break in the hot tub.
That's a gross way to put it. Sounds disgusting.
And listened as Rob talked about buying his wife a larger home. Oh.
This is before he moved out. So these people have been gone for a couple of months now.
Now, Gigstad says that he thinks the killer ran into his garage, climbed into the attic, and remained inside the house all night as the investigation went on next door. Really? Yeah, they said that the killer left 22 caliber bullets,

a spent 16-gauge shotgun shell, and a broken footstool inside the house.

Gigstad, I think you're a very good investigator.

You've done a nice job.

Not bad.

So, yeah, then police go over. They find evidence that someone had entered the Gigstad's attic through an opening in a bedroom closet.
Yep. They snuck up there.
A spent 16-gauge shotgun shell was found on the bedroom floor, and several .22 caliber rounds were found in the attic itself. There were no signs of forced entry into the home.
You know, like you needed a key. so the round they also had found

a 20 no signs of forced entry into the home, you know, like you needed a key. So the round, they also had found a .22 caliber round in Jana Larson's car, James's daughter's car, which was one of the same brand as the three rounds found in the attic.
The .22 caliber bullet fired at Brenda was retrieved from the andrews garage appeared consistent with the bullets in these unfired rounds as well the rounds are capable of being fired from a firearm that he purchased two days earlier before the murder as well and um they couldn't test it further because they never found that handgun that's the other thing he buys a gun and then and then three days later he's like, no idea where it is. I'm real loosey-goosey with my handgun.
I just, you know, fuck it. Yeah, I just bought it.
I don't know. It's mine.
I can do with it what I want. I just put it, you know, I threw it in the river and, you know, that's what you do.
You get a gun, you look at it, you shoot it a couple times, you throw it in the river. That's what people do.
What do you want from me? I told that's how you dispose of them.

I don't know.

So the 16-gauge shotgun shell found in the Gigstad's home was one of the same brand as the 16-gauge shotgun shells found in the garage. Uh-oh.
The spent shell. This is not good.
Ballistics comparisons showed similar markings, indicated they could have been fired from the same weapon. whether the shells were fired from the 16-gauge shotgun that Rob had left at the home was impossible

because that gun remains missing as well doesn't look good does not look good um so gigstads got a theory of the crime and at this point i'll take gigstads theories because he seems smarter than anybody else investigating this pretty good he's pretty He's pretty good. And he's like an old guy, too.
He says the killer approached Rob Andrew and shot him twice with a single shot 16 gauge shotgun, perhaps the same gun that Rob's father had given him when he was a boy. This is his like heirloom gun.
And the same one that Stump, the friend, told police that Brenda would not let would not return to her husband. Gigstad thinks after the firing, the first shots, the killer had to eject the shell and load another after the first shot.
In the process, he lost track of the spent shell, which was resting on top of the minivan. They say from what we can gather, he made the 20 steps over here.
It's only 20 steps from the garage to his house. In about 10

seconds, came through the garage and went up

through a crawl space into the attic

where he stayed through the night. The

next morning, he came down from the attic and

stepped on this footstool. It

broke under his weight and he stashed

it under the bed in the master bedroom.

Fat bastard. He's not

either. This must have been a weak stool.

Shitty chair. One of those suicide stools.
Yeah, shit ones. Probably for a kid.
One of those, like, for a kid to brush their teeth or something, not meant for your ass coming out of a fucking attic. Before leaving the attic, the killer abandoned the .22 bullets.
When it appeared safe, the killer peeked out of the windows, staring out at the detectives and technical advisors who remained near the Andrew home till about 4 a.m. He said, I think he was probably waiting for everyone in the neighborhood to go to work the next morning.
And then he walked out. But Gigstad's son arrived at the house at about 8 a.m.
unaware that anyone was in the house. The killer must have heard the key turning in the lock and slipped into a bedroom closet to hide.
While inside the closet, he realized he hadn't reloaded the shotgun and fumbled to slide a shell into the chamber. And the spent shell dropped to the floor where it was found later.
This guy's a fucking homicide detective. This is the neighbor.
This isn't the homicide detective's theory. He's got it nailed because it's here.
He must have done that. And this guy, whoever did it, is a complete dipshit.
Dipshit. Probably not good at this and not done doing a lot of murders.
Maybe the first time. So the Gigstad said, When I heard they found such a critical piece of evidence in the bedroom, I couldn't figure out why he'd leave it there, but this makes sense to me.
Gigstad's 26-year-old son walked into the bedroom and stood with his back to the closet. He found the piece of nursery equipment he was looking for on the bed.
They said if it hadn't been there, this guy would have looked in the closet and he would have probably been shot, would have probably been killed. Because Giggstad said when he reloaded that shotgun, I think he made up his mind that if anyone saw him, he wouldn't be allowed to escape.

Also, police never found the house key that he gave to Brenda either. She doesn't know where it is.
No idea where it is. That's not a good person to have your house key.
Nope. It gets weirder.
November 26, 2001 is the funeral for Rob. so Brenda's got to show up with the kids and you know

put her least tight dress on

and go there and look sad. You know what I mean? So Wade Burleson is the pastor who presided over the funeral.
He said he met with Brenda a few days before the funeral to plan the service, and he found her demeanor to be cold, flat, and unemotional. Oh.
Burleson said, I want to help the people who grieve at the funeral to plan the service and he found her demeanor to be cold, flat, and unemotional. Burleson said, I want to help the people who grieve at the funeral service to understand the person who has died.
I have a standard question that I always ask. Would you tell me what it is that you will miss about your loved one? So he can use that as a theme.
And they said, well, did she respond? And Burleson said, she did not say anything to me. She just stared at me.
I thought she didn't understand the question, so I asked it again. Again, she said nothing.
So I prompted her. I said, is there a character quality? Is there a story to help me relate to others your love for Rob? And then she said one word.
Nothing. Oh, my God.
Nope. Don't give give a fuck so he said he officiated um this here

um and he said that they're waiting to start the funeral and at the time of that it's supposed to

be is here but there's no brenda no kids nothing we can't start it without the spouse so he said

in 40 years this is the first time that the spouse who planned the funeral didn't show up for it

Thank you. nothing we can't start it without the spouse so he said in 40 years this is the first time that the spouse who planned the funeral didn't show up for it i've done a lot of funerals man and that's never happened before you're not gonna take the kids to bury their father nah fuck wait till you hear where she's going so the funeral director whispered in this guy's ear what do we do yeah the fuck are we doing it's packed in here.
This is a famous thing and now a lot of people are here. This is at the

Crossroads Community, or Crossings

Community Church in Oklahoma City.

They said, Brenda and the two children

aren't here and we're already 15 minutes past

the start time. So

Burleson said, start the service anyway.

Brenda's not coming. That's all

there is to it. So the funeral

director said, I spoke with her on the phone 30 minutes ago. She said she and the kids were on their way.
Burleson said, quote, no, she's not coming. Brenda murdered her husband.
She's on the run. That's what he said.
And the funeral director was like, holy shit. And went up and started the service.
That was that. No, I think I'd put it together real quick.

I think I got this. Yeah.
Now, on November 26th, this same day, someone attempted to use James's ATM card or credit card at a cash machine in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico. Oh, what? A border town here.
So neither James's car nor Brenda's minivan have been spotted despite a global manhunt by law enforcement and international media exposure on America's Most Wanted and Inside Edition.

They did two America's Most Wanted on this shit.

Wow.

Now, James, on Thanksgiving, he's last seen on Thanksgiving by anybody where he met with his attorney and ate turkey sandwiches in the guy's office. What? Yeah.
He went to meet with his attorney on Thanksgiving and ate turkey sandwiches and denied any connection to the crime whatsoever. Now, Brenda's family, because the press go to her family and they're like, she didn't show for the husband's funeral.

This isn't good.

Her family says, no, no, no.

She's super innocent.

She's a Girl Scout leader and a homeroom mom and a Sunday school teacher.

She's incapable of violent crime.

She's been abducted.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

They said that, quote, this is from the family's attorney.

Quote, she may have, God forbid, met the same fate Rob did. These did these people are back for her man they didn't finish her off the first time right the guys got away and they're coming back yep so um it's at this point where james's daughter janna steps forward and tells the cops everything because they had searched her car found the bullet and they're like well you have a bullet that's making you look bad so you better start fucking talking well she goes okay he's gonna put a baby in somebody yeah there's that um now she said that both james and brenda told her they were leaving because they were anticipating being arrested for murder after the funeral they're on the way together yes they were gonna wait till they lowered him in the ground and then they going to slap the cuffs on her in front of her kids, she thought.
James called his daughter several times from Mexico and asked her to send them money. Now, she cooperated with the FBI, the daughter, and local authorities to try to track them down instead.
So this daughter here testifies later on that in late October, a month before the murder james told her that brenda had asked him to murder rob yeah um she said that uh quote he said quote you're never gonna believe what that nuttier than a fruitcake woman asked me to do he's heard how i'm gonna put a baby in it he's just gonna say out loud and think, everybody will forget this without a problem. Sure.
And then he told me that she asked him if he would kill her husband or if he knew someone that could do it. You don't have to do it personally.
I mean, just push me in the right direction. Is there a store at the mall I can go to? What are we talking about here? So the conversation occurred around the end of October, about the same time that James had asked his daughter to call Rob and tell him to drive to Norman, Oklahoma to pick up Brenda after the brake lines had been cut.
She was the female caller. She called.
Yep. That's absolutely right.
I guess the brakes were cut on the night of the 25th going into the 26th. The next morning, James persuaded his daughter to call Rob from an untraceable phone.
It was a pay phone and claim that Brenda was at a hospital in Norman, Oklahoma and needed him immediately. An unknown male also called Rob that morning to plea for this.
Rob's cell phone records showed that one call came from a payphone in Norman, near the daughter's workplace, by the way, like right by her job, and the other came from a payphone in South Oklahoma City. So, yeah, and we're talking about, we told you about the gun, the bullets that matched from her car to the attic, and she says, the daughter, Janice, saysames uh had her car on the day rob was killed and that the next time she drove the car she saw the bullet on the floorboard oh boy yeah so he borrowed his daughter's car to commit a murder apparently that's crazy um she obtained i guess james in the days following the murder, James obtained information over the internet.

They find through his searches about Argentina because he told people that he heard that, that, that Argentina had no extradition agreement with the United States. Yeah.
He just like saw Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid. And we're like, we can do that.
It's fine. so um then after that after the murder brenda and james asked the daughter here to help them create a document with a with the forged signature of rob granting permission for his children to travel with brenda out of the country so these people decided to plan a murder and then we'll plan the rest of it later what we'll just figure it out later but we'll get the other stuff we'll get we gotta get the insurance in place first that's the most important thing insurance murder then we'll plan the rest then fuck it argentina is nice at this time of year i hear it's lovely so uh brenda also asked janna to transfer funds from her bank account to janna's own bank account so that janna could wire money after they left.
So she said, my bank account's going to be a no-go, so you need to, we'll do it from yours. Now, inconsistencies in Brenda's story, besides all of this, which is kind of, it's over.
Kind of everything, yeah. But they need evidence besides one person.
So her superficial wound was caused by the 22, fired at close range, which was inconsistent with her claim that she had been shot at a good distance. She was supposed to be across the garage from these people.
Expert testimony opines that the wound to her arm was not self-inflicted, but look like part of a scheme to stage a scene to make it look like she's a victim. So, you know, it's less suspicious.
James obviously purchased a .22 caliber handgun from a local gun shop two days before the murder. Yeah, he borrowed his daughter's car, claiming he was going to have it serviced for her.
She's going to be a good dad. I'm going to go change your oil, honey.
I'm a good dad. You come back, oil's still gunky, but there's a bullet on the floor now.
Perfect. the car and then when it came back the car had not been serviced but a 22 caliber bullet was in her

car Oil's still gunky, but there's a bullet on the floor now. Perfect.
When it came back, the car had not been serviced, but a .22 caliber bullet was in her car. In a conversation later that day, James told Jana never to repeat that Brenda had asked him to kill Rob, and he threatened to kill his own daughter if she did.
Okay. Okay, don't tell your daughter about your sexual activities or your murders and never threaten to kill your daughter ever what kind of a how could she like what kind of a outlook mentally can she have at this point my father threatened to kill me and used me in a murder and then told me gross sex stories oh god um he also told her to throw away the 22 rounds she found in her car, which she didn't.
She turned it over to the cops. Unbelievable.
A handwriting expert determined that Rob's signature on insurance papers that renamed Brenda as beneficiary after he had taken her off with the boss were doctored and they were forged signature. Apparently, in the last year, Rob had began signing his name with a Jesus fish he put a Jesus fish on it at the end everybody know what that is the little Jesus fish a magnet or a sticker that people used to put on their cars absolutely but it was not on the papers that he claimed were genuine that James claimed were genuine documents but it was on other ones so they forgot to do it that's wild that's a big mess yeah on the actual valid documents rob did change the beneficiary but to tricity and parker and his children with a fish how now brenda is in mexico they're all in mexico yeah remember nun Nunley there? Yeah, first guy.
He gets a call from her. Oh, boy.
Well, she's in Mexico. And he's like, whoa, this is fucking crazy.
Brenda was wanting his help in getting in touch with an attorney and her sister. Yeah.
Remember all that free pussy I gave you? Now it's time to pay up. 10 years worth.
Fucking loser. So she said she had told him, this is his quote, she said she had an important, or had important attorney papers in the children's luggage.
A written confession. This, there is a written confession.
It is a written confession written by James. It's in letter form to Tricity, the daughter.
And it is basically explaining that he killed the father and that he's sorry. Oh my God.
Expert in handwriting verifies that James wrote this letter, by the way.

November 29th, 2001, Oklahoma County prosecutors file first degree murder charges against Brenda and Brenda and James. I mean, you have to here, obviously here.
And the Rob's parents file for guardianship of the children at that point, too, which is smart. An attorney for Brenda suggested she would return to surrender, but prosecutors and the FBI said, Bullshit.
She's not coming back to surrender. One of the agents said, We felt like they would be running out of money, so they're either going to give up, get a job, which would be very difficult because they're south of the border, or seek help.
We felt like at this point, since there had been no spottings and no sightings, that they were probably seeking some help. And they were.
They were getting Jana to send them money. Now, November 30th, 2001, federal authorities now charge them with illegal flight to avoid prosecution as well.
They're still gone, though. February 7th, 2002, Brenda's attorney tries to trade a confession letter, because he found the confession letter, James's, for a dismissal of the charges against Brenda.
Sure. I'll give you this if you dismiss against my client, because in the letter it says Brenda had nothing to do with it.
That's part of it. Your mom had nothing to do with it, I should say.
The district attorney said, fuck out of here with that shit. One person was getting the money and it wasn't him.
So she's more than involved. February 28th, 2002.
The authorities here, it's about 1140 a.m. And it's a Thursday.
And there's a guard here, last name of Huerta, who's working at the border. Okay? He spots in a minivan two men and two children in a minivan.
Two men, okay. Two men and he finds a very sad little girl who's crying, eyes red, crying, crying, crying.
So he said, quote, anytime you see a situation like that,

you check to make sure the children aren't being kidnapped.

Smart.

I'm happy they do that.

So the crying girl was Tricity.

Right.

And she, he said he didn't know what the fuck this was.

He just was a crying little girl.

So he was like, oh, shit, I want to, you know,

want to help this crying little girl.

So two other people were in the van.

It is Tricity there.

She's accompanied by a crying boy as well, as we know, and an older man.

The older man, I'm sorry, so it's a boy, a girl, and an older man.

The older man is Jim Bolin.

That is Kim, Brenda's sister's husband, Brenda's brother-in-law. He's there.
So the Huerta searches the bags and the contents of the girl's suitcase included a diary and an assortment of hand-drawn pictures of dogs. So this guy, the border guy, said, I could tell she liked dogs.
You know, he said she had pictures and drawings everywhere. And, you know, so there was that.
So that'll come in handy for him in a minute. So the FBI and customs officials said the two children were in a 2000 white van driven by James Bolin, who's Brenda's brother-in-law.
So they said that his story didn't seem to add up. They felt like his story was somewhat suspicious.
Why an uncle was coming up from Mexico with two young children makes no sense. Right.
I want to know so much more. He's not even the blood relative.
You know what I mean? And this isn't her many, then hers is maroon. Hers is maroon.
Yeah. Whatever he was telling the customs officer sounded suspicious to them and they opted to detain him for further investigation, which they said happens quite often.
So in an attempt to calm the little girl down, this border guy popped up with some trading cards that customs officials have for children. They're cards that feature photographs of the sniffer dogs.
Oh, those are fun. Yeah, they're like trading cards of the dogs, basically.
This is Duke. Isn't he adorable? It has details of what kind of dog they are and their histories and careers and all that kind of shit.
So this guy said I went up to her and asked her if she liked dogs and she nodded yes, so I opened up a couple of packs of cards and started showing them to her. She just started crying again.
So eventually this guy because there's a million, if you've ever been to the border there's all sorts of guys you don't just get stuck with one guy they're moving all around so he said he lost track of the girl after that because he moved on to help with other inspections then about 20 minutes later something else happens about 20 minutes after this happens an automatic tag reader on the Hidalgo side of the bridge registers a hit on an Oklahoma license plate. They had tag readers in 2001, which is shocking, honestly.
Well, that's probably 9-11 did that. Probably, yeah.
Customs inspectors soon confirmed the car's occupants were wanted by the FBI. Who's in the car? It is Brenda and James.
There she is. What? She left her fucking kids with her brother-in-law to try to get into the country wow they called her a raven-haired woman in her 30s and a slim man in

a blue shirt and sunglasses they offered no resistance wow so the border crossing guard

who was talking to the girl said he was called away from the fugitive's vehicle to help with

another search when he returned uh they had already been detained and the car had been abandoned

they said the supervisor ordered him to put the fugitive's belongings back into the car. He said, I picked up her purse.
Its zipper was broken. And when I picked it up, it broke completely.
I could see inside the purse and I saw a picture in another compartment. Just like that, I knew it was exactly the same girl.
The little boy, he looked worried he looked worried too i knew it was them he saw pictures yeah yeah so they he connected it right away he said he rushed to a supervisor to issue an all points bulletin on that fucking ford minivan don't let it go whatever you do but he couldn't remember the color of the minivan it's white couldn't remember that he sees a million in his defense he's seen like 150 cars since then. So then they saw the van near the entrance to the immigration office.
The guys go inside and call out the children's names. They turn around.
Hey. Yes.
And so they say, ah, there we go. Jim Bolin is taken to a holding cell and later released

because he didn't

really commit any crime

even though

he did

he's eating and bedding

a lot

so for about

three hours

this guy said

the children cried

non-stop

customs inspectors

gave them cookies

drinks

games

nothing helped

they were hysterical

stop crying fucker

stop crying you little

bastards

but they were

I mean their dad's dead

their fucking mother

isn't even with them

they're in a foreign

country

like everything's changed

they don't have their

puppy with them

so he's

Thank you. Stop crying, you little bastards.
But their dad's dead. Their fucking mother isn't even with them.
They're in a foreign country. Everything's changed.
They don't have their puppy with them. So this guy said they didn't respond to anything until they saw their mom.
About 4.30 p.m., the FBI took custody of the fugitives and the children. I just pictured the kids in cuffs with their heads down walking away, too.
The kid walked with a bag over their head. Yeah, I was going to say with a jacket going over their face.
So they're going to be incarcerated, the adults are, in Hidalgo County Jail in Edinburgh, Texas, and the children would be with Rob's parents. The guy who found them said he was proud that he found the children, but he says he remains haunted by one of the details, a detail that he learned from Tricity in the moments he spent searching her luggage.
He said, when I was going through her journal, the little girls were going, when I was going through the little girl stuff, I saw her journal. She had written something to her best friend about her new dog in November.
I don't remember exactly what it said, but it was, last time she wrote before all this happened. She never wrote in it again.
She's so happy. Yeah.
Now, Brenda's in jail. Yeah.
In jail, she comes in contact with Teresa Sullivan, who's a federal inmate at the Oklahoma County Jail. She wants out so bad.
She really wants out. She really would love a shortened sentence here.
She tells the cops that Brenda told her she and James killed her husband for the money, the kids, and each other. And Brenda also told her that James shot her in the arm to make it look like she was a victim.
So tomorrow I go home? Maybe tomorrow. By the way, if you're going to stage something, because we've had this many times, if you're going to stage something, you have to have a life-threatening wound.

You better fucking take a chance, man. You got to say, shoot me on the side of the chest where my heart isn't and fingers crossed because holy shit.

Otherwise, nobody buys it.

So anyway, she is called by Brenda's people a known snitch.

She said in the jail, she's known as the mouth of the South to Sullivan. Get over there and talk to her.
That's amazing. And they also claim that Sullivan and Brenda could not have contacted each other, either verbally or through notes notes and that there were newspapers available to the inmates in the pod.

So Sullivan could have learned the facts of the case through news reports.

So discovery of the testimony isn't going to be presented later on. Anyway, defense here later on said that defense counsel was allowed to produce the testimony of Angela Burke, who testified that later on that Sullivan is a known snitch and that she communicated to Sullivan through cell doors and that she testified that inmates were sometimes out in the pod together.
September 10th, 2002, Brenda and James are ordered to go on trial for first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. February 28th, 2003, they go their separate ways.
The judge grants a severance of their trials so they will have separate trials. Absolutely.
So Brenda also wants a change of venue. She says there's been extensive coverage around here.
People are going to be familiar with this and this is crazy. The judge said this.
He considered the evidence and then denied the motion, saying, I don't think we're going to know whether unbiased jurors can be seated until such time as we bring in a large panel, put them up in the jury box, and voir dire them. It's unfortunate, but that's actually the only way that you can make that determination.
You can't just say, people must know about it. So never mind.
Let's ask him. April 1st, 2003, Rob's parents are granted guardianship pending the outcome of Brenda's trial.
So it'll become permanent if she's convicted and not if it's not. If she's not.
May 27th, 2003, James's confession letter is made public now. Oh.
He takes full responsibility for the planning and implementation of the murder.

He describes how he planned the crime and how he enlisted a friend to help.

He says that after his friend shot Rob and he shot Brenda, they ran and hid in the house next door.

He says that he admitted his involvement in the murder to Brenda only while they were on their trip to Mexico.

She was totally innocent. Totally innocent.
A little later, yeah. He said that Brenda was shocked, angry, and hurt by his actions and that she just couldn't understand why he would do it.
But this is in a confession letter to the daughter to try to make her feel better about this. So, you know what I mean? It's crazy.
So this is made public in a motion filed by Brenda's attorneys asking that the charges against her be dismissed. Well, all cleared up now.
So another witness regards to the letter from James introduced to trial stated that he and another assailant were responsible and Brenda was not involved. He said that he shot Brenda.
That's what's interesting, too. We know you shot Brenda.
So that's interesting. And also, Brenda provides an affidavit from James Bolin, the guy who got caught with the kids in Mexico, who says that James told him the same story when he met him in Mexico just days prior to their arrest.
Yeah, that's his story now. He's not going to tell this.
He's not going to change it now. He's got to stick with it.
So next up, right after this, someone confesses to the murder, but it's not James or Brenda. No? No.
It's another inmate. It's a guy named Zayton Tyrone Jake Wood.
Yeah, he did. And this guy is in jail for murder.
And he wrote a letter saying, I am writing this letter to you to confess to a murder that I committed on or around November 20th, 2001. He writes this to the district attorney.
The murder victim's name is Robert Andrew. Okay.
So he's being, this guy Wood is being held in the Oklahoma County jail and his brother also is there.

They're waiting for trial in the death and robbery of a Montana man at an Oklahoma City motel.

And they're seeking the death penalty on these two.

Most of what he writes about in his three page handwritten letter,

the problem is all of this shit's been published in the newspaper.

So he could have just read newspapers and known this. He also doesn't mention the second assailant at all.
He does say he climbed through a window next door and hid in the attic. But Dean Gigstad has already said this in multiple articles.
They talk about this all the time in these newspapers. And he said that the house was secure when he left and couldn't find signs of forced entry.
So unless this guy found a way to get a key also, unless he found a key on fucking Brenda's key chain and decided it must be for the next door house. No.
Hang on to this one for a minute. So they don't believe him at all.
They don't know what the fuck he's doing because then after that, he starts confessing to other murders that they know he didn't commit. Murders that other people committed on video.

He's like, I did that one, too.

They're like, no, you didn't. I think maybe he's trying to draw this out and maybe get a deal.
September 2003. Here is James's trial.
His trial is first. He wants a change of venue also.
And there are some stats behind why he wants this. Apparently, he says 1,527 stories aired on Oklahoma City's four major television networks from the day of the murder until January 4th, 2003.
According to Nielsen Media Research, these 1,527 stories reached a cumulative audience of 81,997,314 people. That's gross impressions.
That's not how many people that is. Use the Nielsen ratings for this.
Yeah, 81 million. Fucking a third of the country doesn't have access to local Oklahoma City news channels.
They just don't. So in a telephone call poll of 303 oklahoma county residents conducted in september and october of 2002 uh 87 percent had heard of the murder and of these uh people here uh 93 percent had heard of the case through the media out of the people who had heard of it between november 21st 2001 and the day of of the murder, which is the day of the murder, and October 29th, 2002, 74 articles appeared in the Daily Oklahoma newspaper, and 40 of those articles were on the front page.
This was really covered, man. It was Sunday school teacher massacre of sex and Sunday school and all this shit.
It's, of course. They also said nationally the story about the murder appeared in the October 2nd, 2002 edition of People's Magazine or People Magazine, twice on America's Most Wanted and twice on Primetime Thursday.
So they said throughout the pleadings, James's counsel incorrectly reports this number is 15,027. This number includes multiple times a story may have appeared on a single day or even in a single broadcast.
For example, on November 27th, a week after the murder, a total of 20 stories aired. KFOR ran two stories at 5 a.m., two stories at 6 a.m., one at noon, one at 6.
They go down all of this. So the court ruled that most of the media stuff concentrated on Brenda.
So don't worry about it. You're fine.
So, yeah, they said Brenda had a lot of people talking about her. She's the wife, not you.
So the state's evidence, they have to demonstrate more than just motive. Obviously, there's motive, but motive isn't everything.
You have to have some kind of evidence. They do find a bunch of physical evidence, though.
The bullets, the shotgun shells, forged documents which linked James to the murder and a preexisting plan to get away with it. Talking about Mexico and everything like that.
That all happened before the murder. The testimony of his daughter.
Why would she? Why would she lie to put him away?

His own daughter helped to show that James and Brenda planned to harm Andrew for some time and that the failure of the first attempt only emboldened them, meaning the break lines. The daughter also related a number of incriminating statements from both Brenda and James.
the daughter may not have been an eyewitness to the murder itself

but she was certainly an eyewitness to many overt acts of the two co-conspirators and to their preparations for flight after the murder. The state also presented the letter written by James from jail, wherein he admittedly he admitted complicity in the murder, but attempted to exculpate Brenda.
Both parties rejected the letter as an accurate version of what happened, although for different reasons. While the letter may have borne some relevance to show his complicity, it was perhaps more relevant to show how jealousy and greed can fuck everything up here is what they say in there.
Also, the numerous other witnesses who spoke with and observed Rob and Brenda and James as their

relationship with one another evolved.

The evidence against James is largely circumstantial, but I mean, that's not that unusual, obviously.

But there's a shitload of circumstantial.

I mean, it's a I mean, there's not physical to with the bullets.

I mean, it's not bullets.

It's not guaranteed.

No, forensics. But that's because he did such a great job of getting rid of the gun.
He just did a fine job of it. Now, the other guy, remember the Wood guy who confessed to it in jail? He was awaiting trial on unrelated charges of first-degree capital murder.
He happened to be housed in the same pod of the county jail as James. He just heard about it.
The letters were handwritten, but practically identical. The one he wrote, he wrote two different ones.
It appeared that one had been copied verbatim from the other or that they had both been copied from another source. While the letters were detailed, they were perhaps due to detailed and appearing to parrot certain key features of the state's case.
So, yeah, there's all of this shit and they had publicly done everything. So that's all public.
September 15th, 2003 is the verdict for James. Jury deliberates for two and a half hours and they find him guilty of firstdegree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.

Oh, boy. Okay, sentencing comes around here.
October of 2003. Here it comes.
You, sir, may fuck off death penalty for James. Oh, shit.
Yeah, he got death-penaltyed on that one. Wow.
Yeah, that's that. Um,, his lawyer said Mr.
Pavitt has great Christian faith. He believes that everything happens for a reason and that God is directing his life.
Yeah, this isn't Oklahoma. This isn't the first time an innocent man's been convicted and sentenced to death in Oklahoma County.
So we'll work on that. Now, July, June,, another Tupac song, Brenda Had a Trial.
That's on another album. Brenda killed her baby and now she's on trial for it.
It's a real tragic thing here. We'll call you bitch.
That's a Tupac lyric, by the way. Not everyone's going to know that.
That's what I'm saying.

People are going to be like, that's Jimmy saying that.

No, that's Tupac saying that in 1992.

Don't worry about it.

So Brenda's trial here.

Oh, man.

They talk about her lawyer says it's really going to be hard to get a jury.

That is the kind of thing that has caused people to change to do change of venue motions.

It's amazing how often something happens can happen in a town and no one knows about it. This case was a big deal in town and may have polluted the potential jury pool to the sense that everyone knows about it.
They tell her to fucking pound sand, but pound sand here, not away from us because we're doing it here. The openings here, the prosecution in his opening statement told the jury, Brenda had extracurricular activities.
She liked to cheat on Rob. This is a quote, by the way.
Throughout the marriage, Brenda had a boyfriend on the side. They go on to talk about how she's accused of making passes at teenagers who are working on her deck and all of that shit.
Another thing they really tout here, oh my goodness, this really means she's guilty, is the book the cops found in the second drawer of the nightstand next to her bed. What is it? Think about it.
It's dark, man. Dirty dark.
203 Ways to Drive a Man Wild in Bed by Olivia St. Clair.
So she's dirty. It's a long Cosmo article, basically.
You know what I mean? You can sell that at a checkout line at the grocery store. That seems like a lot.
Yeah, there's an old joke about that. 203.
Yeah, there's an old joke about, it's like a hacky stand-up joke from the 80s. about yeah cosmo 100 ways to satisfy your man i can think of one that's all you need lady yeah i can't remember whose it is but it's some bullshit from the early 90s something is incredible i kind of want to read that tickle his feet what is it it's out that's what i mean there's going to be ones that are probably not yeah like that so smack it yeah now the prosecutors put a lot of emphasis on this book and her affairs and all this type of shit meanwhile all they need to concentrate is altered insurance policy bingo period yeah period to me that's it altered insurance policy no ran away to mexico fucking case closed no fish you're in me Come on, lady.
Yeah, give me a goddamn break. Also, they talk about the Sullivan, the mouth of the South snitch there.
She was not facing state charges. She testified that she did not expect any benefit from testifying because she's testifying in a state trial while being held by federal authorities.
She just happened to be held at the county jail. She said she did not seek out authorities with which to share her story.
She, as well as other incarcerated inmates in the county jail with Brenda, were contacted to determine whether they had information. The cops went there and talked to everybody around her and said, is she talking? So there's that.
Anyway, they do give the instruction that she's a jailhouse informant and take that to the jury. Take that as what you will here.
So she's fighting the shotgun evidence here. Brenda's claim is basically she's got different things here.
They start with testimony concerning Rob's 16 gaugegauge shotgun. The fact that Rob owned a 16-gauge shotgun was not in dispute.
The fact that he was killed by a 16-gauge shotgun, also undisputed. The fact that is significant, that's significant considering the fact that a 16-gauge shotgun is less common than a 12 or a 20.
Right.

So he said the fact that his shotgun was in the house and now it's not,

and the murder weapon was that, and it's never been recovered,

pretty big coincidence.

Yeah, it's a pretty big deal.

Pretty big deal.

The statements here, they talk about a revolve around Rob's desires

and expressed to witness Ron Stump to get his shotgun out of the marital home after Brenda had changed the locks and security codes on him. Rob told Ron that Brenda would not let him have the shotgun.
The statement was made a week prior to the murder. However, the statement was introduced to show that Rob did not have the shotgun, inferring that it was still in Brenda's control.
She also they're trying to get hearsay. They're saying something's hearsay and they don't want it in.
Rob's statement to Ron that Brenda finally found someone to kill him after the break line thing. And it was James, he said, too.
This James Pavick guy. The statement was made just shortly after Rob had moved out of the house.
Okay, it's before the break lines. The statement's clearly a statement showing Rob's state of mind at the time, and the court has ruled such antecedent declarations by a decedent are admissible in a homicide case to show the decedent's state of mind toward the defendant or to supply motive for the killing.
Those reasons only, and it falls into that exception range. Testimony showing ill-feeling threats or similar conduct by one spouse toward another in a marital homicide case is relevant and statements by the deceased expressing fear of a spouse are admissible under the state of mind exception to the hearsay rule.
That's some legal shit for you people out there. We give you all sorts of shit here.
We give you crazy stories. We give you groundhog for breakfast.
We give you dick jokes of shit here we give you crazy stories we give you groundhog for breakfast we give you dick jokes but we also give you insanely detailed legal fucking nuances which is the decedent crazy our show is fucking weird jimmy it's a weird show it's very specific it's very we've had a lot of lawyers tell us nobody is gets into the legal shit like do, and they love it and all that stuff. And then people are like, nobody gets into the crazy fucking trash shit like you guys.
What weird things there. So also the statements to insurance people, Rob's belief that Brenda and James tried to kill him by cutting the brake lines to his car.
Those are those that would be inadmissible.

But the tape statements were introduced through prudential employees about that.

So after the evidence was introduced to show Rob's state of mind, his fear of Brenda and the motive for the killing, the insurance money, that's what they do there.

The conversations Rob had with the insurance company were introduced to show why Brenda had motive to kill Rob.

He was trying to keep Brenda from being the primary beneficiary to his life insurance. The conversation shows why he would change the beneficiary to his brother.
The phone calls were also introduced to show why the insurance company would not change the beneficiary over the phone at Brenda's request, increasing her anger and resentment of Rob. She tried to change it back on her own.
You can't change the fucking thing on somebody else's after they took you off of it. That's crazy.
Wow. One of Brenda's main complaints, there's a testimony of attorney Craig Box.
Rob Andrew hired Box to represent him in the divorce proceedings.

Box testified that Andrew told him about a series of calls from Brenda and James, which

led him to believe that they were responsible for the break line incident attempts on his

life.

Meaning I read it in the newspaper and all that kind of shit here.

So the statement supported the conspiracy charge by showing when an agreement may have been consummated. They also support the theory that the motive for murder was for insurance money.
So they also talk about the tape recordings of Jane James trying to change the ownership of the insurance policy with Prudential. His threats toward Rob and statements he made concerning Brenda's request that he kill Rob were all properly admitted.
But the same can be said of other statements Rob made to others about the trouble he was having changing the beneficiary of the policy, which he was telling everybody. They had people testify.
Yeah, he told me he was trying. They said the remainder of the statements Rob made to others about being kicked out of the house, Brenda hiding money, Rob's statement regarding Brenda's belief that he was having a homosexual affair.
Oh, come on. You must be gay because I fuck all your friends.
That makes sense. His statements about Brenda's affair with Nunley and robbed statements regarding the changing of the locks and Brenda's refusal to let him see the children, all of that there was also let in.
Now, Rick Nunley, he testifies, saying Brenda called me from jail when she was arrested, not only from Mexico, but from fucking jail, too. Jesus Christ, imagine that.
Now, evidence of their sexual affair was limited to one question. Did you have a sexual affair? Yes.
That was it. The evidence of the sexual affair between them was remote.
Its significance was a minimal part of the relationship for this purpose james higgins here testifies also because she's told nunley and james higgins that she hates rob yeah and she wishes he was dead so that's interesting um so that they're basically trying to show that james was just the latest guy that she got in here and told that she hated her husband she was basically just looking for a guy who would eventually kill her husband basically so the evidence of her affairs proved motive and intent and that's how that went now Brenda argues that her statements to police were the result of custodial interrogation thus their introduction was unconstitutional because she had not been advised of her Miranda rights. Because they say she wasn't a suspect.
They make a point to tell her she's not a suspect, but then they start asking suspect questions and they still didn't Miranda-ize her. Luckily for her, luckily for the prosecution, she didn't say shit to have it be.
That's not the crux of their case. She didn't really say much anyway.
She said stuff she had already told them 10 times. So here's more stuff that doesn't look great.
Other evidence included testimony that Brenda had come on to a neighbor said that Brenda had come on to his two, their two sons, adult sons, when they were building a deck. Not the kids.
This is the adults now uh somebody's testimony that she was dressed provocatively what this is david ostrow this is the hoochie quote guy when they were uh when they went out to dinner together this was only six to eight weeks before the murder the hoochie comment there so um an inappropriate talk about a trip to me as well. She was talking about Mexico.

Ron stumps a testimony that Brenda changed her hair color after learning what color Ron liked and what color he himself liked, like her husband's best friend. And David Head's testimony about Brenda threatening to kill him.
That's the plumber. additional evidence included the guy the funeral guy the pastor

the testimony about brenda's demeanor while making the funeral arrangements and then not showing up for the funeral uh also one of her friends talking about brenda bragging about hiding money testimony regarding brenda's attempt to influence the children with a puppy. She got it two days.

She's like, your dad's going to be dead. You're going to need

a puppy.

Gentle

for the murder that's coming up. Hang on to that

for later. You're going to need that in about two days.

Trust me. Jenna Larson's

testimony that she told her father, James,

that she thought Brenda lied when she

told him she had not slept with any

other men other than her husband and James. Like recently, obviously, in the past.
Testimony that James told his daughter that the Andrew children were all trained and would not tell of the affair between he and Brenda. She made her kids fucking keep the secret.
That's gross, gross man evidence consisting of a tape recording of conversations between Brenda and Rob recorded the days before the murder these recordings included conversations between Tricity and Rob Brenda next also they talk about evidence that the prosecution introduces two Agatha Christie mystery books that Brenda had. Which ones? In Mexico with her, like entitled Murder is Easy and Sparkling Cyanide.
I would say it's not very easy at all for you. Yeah, you lying bitch, Agatha Christie.
You lied to me. You blew it.
Also, there's a birthday card from James to Brenda. Photographs of Brenda, James, and the children taken on a trip while on a trip to Six Flags Over, Texas.
They're supposed to stop there. Evidence of James' infatuation with Brenda and finally the contents of Brenda's luggage, including her thong underwear.
They're going to make a big deal out of that shit. Because this is 2001, so Cisco is singing that shit right now.
That shit is out there. The ladies are putting thongs on.
Fucking UTIs be damned. Let's do it.
All of this evidence, or yeast infections actually, all this evidence was introduced to show that the extent and the nature of the relationship between James and Brenda and their intentions of fleeing to Mexico, you know, not as a grieving widow, but as a free fugitive living large on a Mexico beach with 800 grand. Plenty of plenty of money there.
That'll stretch in Mexico. Oh, yeah.
you can make that work for a long time there. Now, the prosecutor, Galen Geiger, yes, Galen Geiger, like a Geiger counter, hauling a suitcase toward the jury box from which he took out a pair of the thong underwear, waved them in front of the jury.
I was just going to say to say he spun him around like her coming home from the grocery store and then said this thong is what we found in the suitcase. It's been introduced into evidence.
The grieving widow packs this to run off with her boyfriend. The grieving widow packs this and pulls out a black thong and a red thong to go sleep in a hotel room with her children and her boyfriend the grieving widow packs this and pulls out a lacy bra in her appropriate act of grief now you still need bras and underwear no matter how sad you are sorry old lady's so uptight galen that's what i'm saying she's not wearing fucking bloomers but you, you know, what do you want here? Sorry, she's a fucking party.
Not only did the prosecution suggest that Brenda was a sex-crazed adulteress, they also argued that Brenda was a bad mother who, you know, if you convicted her and executed her, would benefit her children if you got rid of her. They said, would a good mother allow her children to read murder mysteries with their father laying in his grave? Would a good mother take them out of school and have them eat tuna fish and wash dishes in a pot and live on the beach? Live like a beach hobo? I mean, I guess.
So at this point, he then says two words here that are going to come back to haunt the prosecution later. He calls her a quote slut puppy.
I don't know what that even is. A slut puppy.
You. Is that a play on slush puppy? I don't know what he's doing.
You whore yeah you skank duckling bitch i'm trying to say uh sick puppy but also slut puppy slut puppy i don't know that sounds great that is wild skank duckling got him a puppy and she's a slut i don't know i don't know what he's doing is that that puppy a slut puppy? That's what you buy someone?

I don't know what that is.

I don't think the word slut should probably come up in the trial.

I don't think that should come up at all here.

That's probably beside the fact, I would say.

How about a loose, nice woman?

Yeah.

How about a friendly gal?

Now, during deliberations here, there's a problem, a problem that causes the defense attorney to ask for a mistrial because the jury had to leave and go sit outside on the sidewalk for a little while because there's a gas leak and an evacuation in the courtroom during deliberations.

The jury had been deliberating more than an hour when the work crew outside hit a three-inch natural gas line near the northwest part of the courthouse. Oh, my God.
Whoops. That's a big one.
That's a biggie there. That's a big fucking line.
The jury was taken across the street on the southeast side of the building under guard by Oklahoma County Sheriff's deputies. They didn't say go to Subway and mingle.
The leak was stopped and the jury was resumed its work after about 15 minutes. And they said, we should have a mistrial for that.
They had to go out. They had to go outside.
It's a seven man, five woman jury. And they deliberate for for about seven hours over two days before they come to a verdict here, they find her guilty of murder and conspiracy.
Now in sentencing, they're asking for the death penalty and they say she deserves the death penalty for things that are, the problem is some of the arguments are for things that aren't counted as aggravating circumstances.

You have to the only way things you can present are things that are aggravators. You can't just say they're kind of a dick, so you should kill them.
That's clouding the issue at that point. So they argued that, quote, she killed Rob because she wanted the money.
She wanted the custody of the children. The prosecutor also said that she deserved the death penalty for the way she treated Rob after he had forgiven her time and time again.
Now, there's no objection from the defense for any of this shit. So that makes sense.
The prosecution, they're going to claim that the prosecution was intentionally misleading the jury by pointing out to them that Tricity Andrew did not beg for her mother's life. She went on the stand.
Did she say, please don't kill my mother during sentencing? No. So yeah, the defense counsel had planned and had informed the court that he intended to ask Tricity if she wanted her mother to get the death penalty.
But then the defense attorney never asked that question, possibly due to the fact that Tricity was having an emotional time on the stand and it was really kind of beaten on her too much here so um then they also attacked the fact that the defense used brenda's 15 year old niece to ask to spare brenda's life by uh and then told the jury would you put your 15 year old niece on the stand to do that, I wouldn't. So, yeah, the defense calls these low

blows. told the jury, would you put your 15-year-old niece on the stand to do that? I wouldn't.

So, yeah, the defense calls these low blows here.

Now, Brenda here, in her defense here, she, I'm sorry,

the prosecutor says Rob Andrews' parents would like to visit him in prison. The only place they can visit him is in a grave.

Brenda has many relatives who would visit her in prison if given the opportunity. So you should kill her, basically.
The defense attorney said, quote, you have got children who have already lost their father and now the only parent they have left is mommy now. I am assuming them or some family member would make the argument to the jury.
Why deprive the children with the right to have at least one parent, even though she's in prison? Why leave them parentless? It's just pointless. Also mitigating evidence as follows.
She had no history of prior criminal activity, has never committed acts of violence in the past, was considered a good mother who loves her children very much. Duh.
The death penalty would deprive Tricity and Parker of their only living parent. She has a family who loves and values her life.
She has many relatives who would visit her in prison if given the opportunity, was a kind, giving neighbor and friend, has an education and might be able to help other inmates, was a dedicated employee who worked hard, had been a model inmate since being incarcerated in county jail, and has always been active in school and church activities. Doesn't mean she didn't help.
So, help, she said, shoot me in the arm. Yeah.
So, she says, quote, I plan to fight for my freedom to the end. And the end is neither execution nor imprisonment.
It is the complete vindication of my name. God knows my heart and he will deliver me out of this situation.
And the judge says, you, ma'am, may fuck off death penalty. What? Keep on keeping on.
Wow. Yeah.
They this is the jury recommends it and then the judge gives it so that's that the jury voted for death for her which is rare she is very yeah literally the only woman on oklahoma death row is that right yep only one just her so she says quote the verdict which which sentenced me to the death penalty is an egregious miscarriage of justice. I'm an innocent woman wrongfully convicted.
That's right. She said, I love my children dearly, and I'm a loving and gentle and compassionate mother.
I noticed the supposed God-fearing people who celebrated my death sentence, and I see that as human sickness. Oh, you're judging people morally now.
Shut up. You're a murderer.
I agree with you but I never killed anybody. So, you know what I'm saying? I can say that.
You can't. You're dancing on my grave.
Well, I mean you put a man in his. Yeah, that's the point.
And tried to get money for it. So the district attorney said that he wasn't surprised by Brenda's comments.
District attorney said, Ms. Andrew has shown absolutely no remorse for her criminal actions from day one.
It certainly doesn't surprise me that she continues to show no remorse after being found guilty of murder. And the other DA, Fern Smith, said the fact that she said the jury was wrong in what they did, that it wasn't based on the evidence that her conviction was egregious, was disrespectful to the court and the jury.
Now she is the only person on death row, which means she's in solitary. There's nobody else there.
It's just her. Holy shit.
She's the only one sitting there. Yeah.
That's it. So Brenda appeals, obviously based on, I'm just going to go over the factors.
I'm not going to go over what they are. Change of venue.
She said they refused to do that. Hearsay evidence.
That's why I was saying that hearsay exception before. That's the hearsay evidence.
The break lines cut. Yeah.
Well, she said that James asked his daughter to call Rob to tell him that he needed to come to norman to pick brenda up at the hospital it's an obvious attempt to get rob to drive some distance uh with faulty brake lines brenda claims there was insufficient evidence linking her to this incident so uh they also talk about her other affairs she cites the agatha christie thing saying that was inflammatory the main thing though is the thong and the slut puppy yeah that's the big one stuff that's a tough one here um also saying newly discovered evidence oh is teresa it's not has nothing to do with the actual murder teresa sullivan the one who who said she't getting anything, the amount of the South here, actually she got a new sentence after that and allowed her to be released five months after testifying even though she had 22 months left on her sentence. The sentence also, after reviewing the entire record is trying to get the sentence she's saying she was sentenced to death because of an arbitrary factor, passion, or prejudice.
Or prejudice based on slut puppy and things like that. So they find, the Supreme Court, or the court here says, we find that there was sufficient evidence to support the finding of statutory aggravating circumstances as of a heinous, atrocious atrocious or cruel.
Yeah. Fuck off.
In other words, no 2017, uh, the James is appealing and a three judge panel in a two to one ruling overturn his death sentence. Really? On the grounds, the state failed to prove the shooting death of rob was

especially heinous atrocious or cruel i mean i think that's in the eye of the beholder man that's yeah oh boy was murdered what's what's not cruel about that 2019 though the full 10th circuit court of appeals voted 10 to 3 to overturn the three judge panel and put his ass back on death row 10 to 3 that's much bigger

much bigger

February 2020 Brenda's move to Gen Pop the three-judge panel, and put his ass back on death row. Ten to three.
That's much bigger.

Much bigger.

February 2020, Brenda's moved to Gen Pop.

Yeah?

Where, according to her lawyer, she's doing great.

She got a job.

She joined a quilting circle.

Oh, boy.

Oh, boy.

And she writes Slut Puppy on a big blanket.

In January, two days after her attorneys filed the writ with the Supreme Court, she was returned to solitary given no reason. They said, we're going to let you fuck around.
2023, Brenda's federal appeals court here thing. On federal appeals court, the judges uphold her ruling despite the defense claiming an unfair trial and irrelevant information about her sex life and gender stereotypes june 11th 2024 supposed to be james's execution day but oklahoma attorney general gentner gentner gentner drummond has requested that several of the upcoming scheduled executions be rescheduled to allow more time between them.

They're currently understaffed and preparing for an execution is time intensive.

So he hasn't received a new execution date yet, so he's just being delayed.

That's the judge's or the mayor, the governor?

The governor's first name is Gettner?

The attorney general, Oklahoma attorney general.

G-E-N-T-N-E-R. Gross.
Very German, I think that is. Finally, January 22nd, 2025.
Yeah. The Supreme Court of the United States.
Big one. Yes.
According to this decision, says that the prosecution in Brenda's case, quote, elicited testimony about Andrew's sexual partners reaching back two decades about the outfit she wore to dinner or during grocery runs, about the underwear she packed for vacation and about how often she had sex in her car. The prosecutor also displayed her thong underwear to jurors while urging them to convict her of capital murder and calling her a slut puppy.
Not good.

They said that the argument here, they say this violated Payne v. Tennessee, a 1991 decision in which the Supreme Court made clear that the due process clause provides relief when evidence is introduced that is so unduly prejudicial that it renders the trial fundamentally unfair.
A Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals decided

that that that pain exception did not qualify as clearly established precedent. But the Supreme Court disagrees and said that was wrong.
Due process protects defendants from the introduction of evidence so prejudicial as to affect the fundamental fairness of their trials. The U.S.
Supreme Court grants her relief and quashes her death sentence. So it commutes it? I think they have to do either a resentence or a commution here.
We're not sure. This just happened like two months ago.
The court ordered the Federal Appeals Court to assess whether the irrelevant evidence about her demeanor as a woman deprived her of a fundamentally fair trial. That was a seven to two decision, by the way, on that one.
I'll give you a guess of one of the dissenters. I'll give you one hint.
Brenda probably had a pube on her Coke can at the end of it there. There is a site, SaveBrendaAndrew.org.
There's all these Save Brendas. Really? This has become a cause for, like, if you look at the narrative now, they completely take out of it that she's a murderer.
Yeah. Because, like, they didn't call James a slut puppy, but James is still on death row because he fucking killed somebody.
Yeah. They're acting like now.
Yeah. Yeah.
There's a lot, which neither do I, but there's a lot of, a lot of sites and a lot of people who think that she's should be just innocent because they called her a slut in court. It's like they were going to, yeah, they're going to convict her whether she was a slut or not.
They're going to convict her based on the evidence. That had no, nothing to do with it.
Now it probably was inflammatory to though to an oklahoma city jury to all that it could have very well been inflammatory at least they think so so either way i don't think she's getting out anytime soon so i mean i think she 100 did it uh yeah oh she absolutely did it yeah so there you go everybody there is we'll say enid oklahoma even though it's not there you go hope you enjoyed There is, we'll say, Enid, Oklahoma, even though it's not. There you go.
Hope you enjoyed that. I guess if you're going to murder somebody, just blow everybody, and then it gets washed.
Yeah. Well, only if they bring it up, though.
Only if otherwise you just got a bad taste in your mouth for no reason. So if you enjoy the show, tell everyone about it.
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This week for crime and sports, we're going to talk about the Spanish Paralympic team

that was not handicapped or disabled or whatever in any way, shape or form.

And some other little weird scams in sports.

Then for small town murder, American Nightmare. It's a documentary on Netflix and it's probably the craziest story I've ever heard.
They thought these people were faking a kidnapping a la Sherry Papini. They called these people the Gone Girl people because they thought it was that and it's a whole other thing, man.
It is fucking wild. They've compared that to so many things and the only one it has been is Sherry Papini.
Yeah. No other one.
So it's crazy. So there you go.
There is that. Patreon.com slash crime and sports.
Plus, you get a shout out at the end of the show, which happens right now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never, ever call us slut puppies in court.
This week's executive producer, Andrea Fellows, Joe Boyd, and her daughter, Jocelyn. Happy birthday, Jocelyn.
Happy birthday, Jocelyn. Happy birthday to you.
I hope it's a great day. Kyle Norweg, see you in D.C.
Kyle, that's going to be great. Kyle, I feel like he lives fucking far.
Actually, no, I think he's up there. It doesn't matter.
Kyle, you're terrific. Kyle, we love you, damn it.
Also, Pat McCrotch, James. I'm positive that's really their first name.
Back again, old Pat McCrotch.

Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, John McCoola, Janice Hill, Scarlett Horbeast III, Danielle Tisch, Tim Kaine, Kelsey.

Probably not that one.

Yeah, it's the senator from...

That would be amazing.

I'm sure.

Kelsey Abbey, Peter's brother, Mark McNeely, Laura Gordon. He felt Mike's punch.
It was so hard. Alyssa Rockenback, Felicia Barnes, Sarah with no last name, Michelle Almeida, Ryan McClelland, Doug Kozak, Christine Kober, Dina W., David Shaddy, Kaylin Chuckery, Gina Taylor, the other Jeffrey Lebowski, James.
Not the one. The other.
Or the dude, but the other one. Fiona Fiala, Max Newbold, Crystal Martinez, Kylie Hollis, Adam Hauser, Melissa Victoria, Doug Rose, Grace Hunt, Tracy Thaum, or Tom, probably Tom, right? Betty and Eddie, both of them.
Betty is the more important one, obviously. Molly Ellis, Kurt Jacobson, Patty Nelson, Brittany McClure.
I'm knitting right now. Beeksa, B-E-E-K-Z-A, Beeksa, with no last name.
Emily with no last name. Whitney Amakri, Benjo, Benji.
Benji,ji 2525. Or is it Benjo? I don't know.
This could have been, who knows? Only flans, James. Flans? Is it flan? Yeah.
Flan, the dessert. Spanish dessert.
That's what it is, yeah. Rachel would know last name.
Jay Jones, probably Jenny from the TV show. She was wonderful.
I'm sure. Actually, she wasn't, from what I'm told.
She was a monster. She was a comic.
You know she was a nightmare. Yeah, she was a pain in the dick.
You know, she's a horrible person. She's a comic who had to go into talk shows.
Bitter. Yeah, and hire some random dude that fucked everybody.
Wasn't that true? I don't know. I don't know.
I just know that the guy got killed from her show because she brought the gay guy on to say she had a crush on some guy. Yeah, that wasn't cool.
Cindy Labonte. Jasmine would know last name.
J.R. Henry.
Hugh Garden. What is this? Amy Johnson.
Calista Milligan. Samantha Crouch.
Shauna Negus. Oh, you better save that one, right? Claudia McCloud.
Caitlin Bradbury. Andrea would know last name.
Rachel Hollabaugh. Courtney Newby.
Tammy Hartwig. Kim Samartano.
Almost a relation. Not quite.
Oh, Dr. Bruno.
Mara Hempel. Madison Laustra.
Carly Yu. John Donnell.
Lalani, Lalani Zwaga, David Thompson, Wesley Larson, Patricia Campo, Heather Hang, Mike Greer, Christina Janelle, Nick Dish, April Lee, Heather Feek, Carolina Nunez Pacheco, Meredith Ivey, DeGoofie, DeGoofie Focker, James. I don't think that's any of those are their names.
I don't know. Thank you.
I think we're well off base on that one. Rebecca Gardner, Brittany Holyfield, Holyfield Holyfield.
Oh, Evanders. And with an I.
God damn it. Got robbed, Brittany.
There's lots of money on the other one. Kim Runkle.
He pissed all that away. Did he? Oh, yeah.
Probably. He built a house the size of a town.
Fuck it all up. Didn't even buy a new ear.
Sean Buck. Cat Hollabo.
Hollabagoo. Hollabagoo? Holy fuck.
Emmy Panico. Kimmy Quacker.
Quackenbush. Oh, boy.
Kika L. Caitlin Nicole.
Wade Huggins, Jeffrey Robinson, Benjamin Sanders, Ashley Terango, James Lebenski, Jennifer Lacombe, Tabitha with no last name, Addie Kristen with no last name. Oh, that is the last name.
T. Smith, Susan Slagle, Jamie Hofton, Michael Joan, Victor.
Oh, John. That's John, James.
That's how you spell John. That's J-O-H-N.
Joan. What the fuck? Victor Garcia.
Joan. Joan Doe over here.
Your name is Joan now. Tanya Ghali.
Royal would know last name. Keja Lake.
Christopher Andrade. Jay Jones.
Another one. Jesus.
Alicia would know last name. Jacob would know last name.
Sarah would know last name. Random Kennedy.
Scary Hendrick. Elite for Jimmy.
PKM. MST.
What is that? It's me. I don't know what that is.
PKM Master? I don't know what you're doing. No fucking idea.
But you're elite for me or him or him. Alex Z, Kerry Gage.
Awesome. I hope that's not some fucking BDSM thing.
Like a coded death threat, maybe? That's what I automatically go to. Get either of us.
That's where I go. Kerry Gage, Matt Herkey, Joe Nasternak, Alex Z, I think I said that, Joe, nope, J Munna, Ash B, Debbie with no last name, Carol Kerchival, Eden McElwini, Tasha with no last name, Brittany Jacobson, Dave F, Vivian Sousa, Vivian Sousa, Lori Smith, Janice Clark, and all of our patrons, you guys know you're the best.
Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody.
You fantastic, wonderful, just amazing bastards. We love you so much.
Thanks for all that you do for us. And we just can't thank you enough.
Keep hanging out with us. Keep coming back.
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It'll take you anywhere you want to be in the world. There you go.

That said, no, not that.

That's the other one.

Until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

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