Singing Serial Killer - Menomonie, Wisconsin

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Speaker 1 This week, in Menominee, Wisconsin, a friendly traveling lounge singer slides into town only to have people begin to turn up dead all over the area.

Speaker 1 Is it a coincidence or is he a serial killer who just happens to sing like an angel? Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Speaker 1 Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay!

Speaker 1 Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed.
My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host.
I'm Jimmy Wistman.

Speaker 1 Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder. I know we don't have to say it because it's every week, but wow, is it crazy this week?

Speaker 1 We got, whoo, we have a crazy person doing some really crazy things. Just a wow, insane stuff.
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Speaker 1 So it's all we can give you, possibly. It's everything we have.
I don't know what else you want from it. It's a garage.

Speaker 1 It's a garage sale. The garage is empty.
We got nothing else. Yeah, cook your breakfast.
What do you want?

Speaker 1 There you go. So there, do that for sure.
That said, disclaimer time. Hey, hey, this is certainly a comedy show.
We're comedians. We're definitely going to make some jokes here.
That's a fact. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Other thing that's a fact is everything that goes on in the story is true. Nothing is embellished for comedic effect or any ridiculous thing like that.

Speaker 1 This is, we try to do as meticulous research as possible on all this and make all the facts crazy. And, but you'd say, well, how do you do that? You make jokes and there's murder.

Speaker 1 Yes, we do because you do it nice and you do it tasteful. See, that's how you do it.
What we do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims' families

Speaker 1 because we're assholes. But, but we're not scumbags.
That's how that goes there. It's real easy to do that.

Speaker 1 So, if you think that sounds good to you, boy, do we have a crazy show for you and a wild story?

Speaker 1 If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, we might not be for you, but give it a shot. Might not be what you think it is.
Either way, no complaining later.

Speaker 1 That said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody. Let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout.

Speaker 1 Shut up

Speaker 1 and give me

Speaker 1 murder. Let's do this, everybody.

Speaker 1 Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah. We're going to Wisconsin this week.
It's a nice place. It's a nice place going up there to hang out.
We are going to Menominee, Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 And I know I said that right, actually.

Speaker 1 And we've said it, we brought that town up in other episodes. It's come up, and the Wisconsin people are incredibly impressed that we pronounced Menominee correctly.
Really? Really?

Speaker 1 And it's the only reason. It reminds me of the Dr.
Pepper commercial, but it's a fun word to say. It is a very fun word to say.
You just want to put a rhythm. Menominee.
It's very fun.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's very fun.

Speaker 1 I only know how to pronounce it from Razan Frazier said it one time. And I was like, oh, Menominee.
Okay, that's how you say that.

Speaker 1 This is in western Wisconsin. It's about an hour and 10 to Minneapolis.
That's the closest city. So it's really kind of more Minnesota here in that direction.

Speaker 1 It's four hours down to Milwaukee and about three hours and 15 minutes to our last episode in Wisconsin to Green Bay, which was was episode 606, The Kinky Cut-Up Murder Insanity. That was Shabizinus.

Speaker 1 That was our girl, Shabiznus, on an express episode. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Doing some seriously wacky things. Serious Shabiznus.
She was handling her Shabiznus from day one.

Speaker 1 This is in Dunn County, D-U-N-N. Area code 715-N534.

Speaker 1 This is kind of

Speaker 1 out there. There's not a lot going on.
This is a real rural area of Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 Kind of also near some, there's like vacation spots on the way there.

Speaker 1 Motto here, you don't know how local I am. That's a great outdoors reference for you there.

Speaker 1 Now, also, there is a city of Menominee and a town of Menominee. It was very confusing.

Speaker 1 Because then they said, literally said the city is mostly inside the town of Menominee. So I'm like, well, which is possible.
This is for the city of Menominee. Inside the city? No, it's impossible.

Speaker 1 It made me confused. I don't know how much the cheese curds have overtaken the sanity up there.
I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 1 The history of this town, the area was heavily populated with Sioux Indians when French fur traders showed up

Speaker 1 in the late 18th century. In 1788, Jean-Baptiste Renault set up the first trading post near present-day Menominee.
So, yeah, there's a

Speaker 1 permanent settlement established in Menominee in 1830, and then lumber industry started to take off, and big lumber firms started to happen and all that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 The lumber company closed in 1901 though, so that didn't last long.

Speaker 1 They established a post office in town. One of the company,

Speaker 1 the Menominee was the suggestion of one of the lumber company founders. How about we call it Menominee?

Speaker 1 The name is derived from an Algonquin word that means people of the rice.

Speaker 1 As we know, northern areas is ricing, as we found out from from this show. Minnesota.

Speaker 1 So much rice. And apparently there was a lot of rice going on all over here

Speaker 1 when it started.

Speaker 1 The bulk of the people here are college students. Is that right? There's a

Speaker 1 University of Wisconsin Stout is up there. Oh, Stout likes the beer.
Stout, like the beer, exactly. Apparently, they have the only polytechnic school in the University of Wisconsin system.

Speaker 1 So if you're into polytechnics, whatever the hell that is, this is where you go.

Speaker 1 Several technics. Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you eat cheese curds and like hot dish and also are into polytechnics, this is where you're going to end up. Stout beer.
This is stout beer. Reviews of this town.

Speaker 1 Let's find out what other people think because we've never been to Menominee. Never.
We were in Madison, but not Menominee. Close.
Madison, a lot of hours away.

Speaker 1 Pierce four stars.

Speaker 1 This is a really nice town. However, you need to travel a minimum of 30 minutes to go to a bigger town to have more options to do activities and shopping.

Speaker 1 I would say that it is a reasonable time to travel if you don't have a time limit to get things done.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 If you've got all day, boys. We've got all day.
That's for you. Great.

Speaker 1 Not in a rush. Hey, everybody.
Shuffling around your house, wondering what to do.

Speaker 1 Good for you.

Speaker 1 There is your average stores and food places. Okay.

Speaker 1 Five stars. Menominee is a small town in Wisconsin with only one high school.
It is an excellent and safe place.

Speaker 1 It was a wonderful, it was wonderful to grow up here and would be a great place to raise children. Sure would.
Oh, sounds great. Only if you have a lot of time on your hands, though.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if you've got a lot of time. You have plenty of time.

Speaker 1 Here's five stars. I like Menominee because it's not too big, but it's big enough to have things to do.
We're also close to

Speaker 1 Eau Claire. Ea Claire? Eauclair.
Eauclair. Eau Claire.

Speaker 1 And the Twin Cities, which makes it great if you want to live in a smaller town, but still want to be close to the cities, you know, like a suburb like we've been doing for.

Speaker 1 You know, all that kind of stuff. And you have a lot of time.
Three stars. Eh, it's okay.

Speaker 1 Some stuff to do in town, but definitely not a place you want to be outside during the night. Not a place you want to be outside at during the night.

Speaker 1 And then in parentheses, unless you like to party uncontrollably, you know, once the sun goes down.

Speaker 1 If you go out after sundown, that means uncontrollable party at that point.

Speaker 1 You can't help yourself. You can't help it.
You're out of control partying. Keep in mind, it's dark at about 3.45 here in the winter.
So you get yourself out of control party.

Speaker 1 By mid-afternoon, or it's out of control party by 5.30. I'm telling you, it goes crazy by 5.30.

Speaker 1 Wow. They are out of their, that is the craziest review ever.
Unless you want to party uncontrollably. I've never heard.
No, the streets of Menominee turn into Nero's Rome past dark, man.

Speaker 1 The second the streetlights come on, it's orgies and

Speaker 1 real birth rates.

Speaker 1 It's wild. People pissing everywhere.
It's insane. Fremont Street ain't shit.
Tits and beads, and you name it.

Speaker 1 People in this town, 16,721. So not that big at all.
16,000. And this is like the biggest town in the area.
There's a bunch of other

Speaker 1 smaller towns.

Speaker 1 Real well-kept secret, evidently, because there are only 16,000 people that know about it.

Speaker 1 We could have picked from a number of small towns around here for this episode where things happened. And one was Springbrook, but like there's nothing in Springbrook.

Speaker 1 There isn't even a gas station there. So they had nothing to talk about.

Speaker 1 Not even one technique? Not even any Technic. Not one.

Speaker 1 The population, like I said, 16,721. There was more women than men in this town, about 50.4% women to 49.6% men, which is about the national average.
Median age here, 23.9,

Speaker 1 which is about as low as

Speaker 1 all colleges.

Speaker 1 There's probably 2,000 people who live here that don't go to college. Wow.
And most of them probably work at the college. So

Speaker 1 it's tough. Normally, it's about 38.5%.

Speaker 1 Family, normally 50-50 is the marriage thing. In the United States, here, 25% married.
So very low. Way less.
Oh, yeah, college kids, I guess. College kids.

Speaker 1 18% are single that have children. I mean, they are partying uncontrollably, after all.
Uncontrollable. So

Speaker 1 that might be why they're losing children. You can say you're going to slip one past the gully at some point if you're party.
It's dark. You can't even find your condoms.

Speaker 1 And you party too hard. You'll lose the baby.
You lose it all, man. It just lost down the river.
I don't know where it went.

Speaker 1 Race in this town: 89% white, 1.2% black, 4.9% Asian, 1.8% Hispanic.

Speaker 1 Religion in this town, 48.8% religious, which is close to the national average. It's usually 50-50.
And the highest here by a long shot is Lutheran. That's what you'll find.

Speaker 1 Oh, this is a Lutheran area.

Speaker 1 This is definitely even around Minnesota, especially. If you've seen Drop Dead Gorgeous, everything was even like the Lutheran gun club and the Lutheran, all that stuff here.

Speaker 1 Wasn't that the reason that

Speaker 1 Leo couldn't marry that girl?

Speaker 1 Catch me if you can, because she wasn't, because he wasn't Lutheran.

Speaker 1 oh yeah yeah some some people get uh they really they really stick on that lutheran thing yeah some of the people if you if you come from these areas where it's like all pretty much one religion everybody's the same religion it's like you talk

Speaker 1 you know what i mean yeah they want you to be a mormon it's the way it is you don't feel catholic around here well yeah and catholics are the ones who don't care it's like yeah i wouldn't want to be yeah they're like yeah you don't have to deal with all that it's fine we don't we don't care everybody else wants you to convert catholics are like it's fine it's fine whatever whatever don't worry about it

Speaker 1 You do Christmas, right? All right. Yeah, good.
We're good.

Speaker 1 It's a lot of other shit to fine with. I understand.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't want to either. The unemployment rate here is about average.
Median household income here is $47,684, which is way under the national average, which is about $69,000.

Speaker 1 But that's understandable because there's a lot of college kids. So college kids, one thing they don't do is earn a lot of money, generally.
It's hard to do that while you're going to school.

Speaker 1 They spend a lot, but they don't earn a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Hard to do it while you're going to school and partying uncontrollably past dark. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 Cost of living in this town, 100 is average in the rest of the United States. Here it is 86

Speaker 1 in terms of cost of living. The housing is also pretty low.
Median home cost here, $243,500.

Speaker 1 That's steep. It's steep, but

Speaker 1 it's a third under the national average, though. So for as far as that goes, it's not bad.

Speaker 1 So if we've convinced you, you're going to go to school, you're going to party uncontrollably past dark.

Speaker 1 We have for you the Menominee, Wisconsin Real Estate Report.

Speaker 1 All right, your average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,230,

Speaker 1 which I assume

Speaker 1 right at average. And I think because there's a lot of rentals because of the college kids, so there's competition for those.

Speaker 1 Here, the first house is a three-bedroom, one-bath, 56, I'm sorry, 1,556 square feet. It's on eight acres

Speaker 1 here, and it looks like, it kind of looks like if Ed Gein's house was in good shape. That's what it looks like.
I love the little gazebo out there. You can't use that shit very much.

Speaker 1 Also, leaning to the right, as you can see. It's not

Speaker 1 a Sunday build. Don't love it too much because it might fall over.

Speaker 1 The inside is not great. As you can see, the countertops are very 1970s.

Speaker 1 It is not good. But the auction starts at $105,000.

Speaker 1 Oh, at an auction. At an auction.
You might get it cheap. Eight acres, $1,500,

Speaker 1 not bad. It will be offered at auction with Andrews Auction Services.

Speaker 1 Like I said, $105,000. This house was built in 1900.

Speaker 1 Our next house here, four-bedroom, one and a half bath. 2,100 square feet.

Speaker 1 And it's not bad. I mean, it kind of looks like a giant shed, but it's got room.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Yeah, there's some shit upstairs happening. Yeah, inside's not terrible at all.

Speaker 1 You can tell they've redone it, you know, semi-recentral

Speaker 1 10 years or so. Yeah, I do love those.

Speaker 1 I don't know what those things are even called, those like alcoves that come out from the roof that have a little window in them. Those are cool.
Yeah, yeah, you know, those look pretty cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I like that too. That's not bad.
Yes, definitely. They made that into a bedroom.
This house, built in 1945, 0.28 acre lot, $218,000.

Speaker 1 That's not so bad. No, just had a a $5,000 price cut as well, as every single house on it.
Everything is. Every house is.

Speaker 1 This next house is dope. It looks like some sort of German

Speaker 1 something we bombed on the way to fucking the bunker in Berlin. Like it looks like some weird, crazy, like German deer hall slash

Speaker 1 house that was shelled in London by the Germans. Something.
This looks old. It's got a German style to it, though.
It's got that thing. It's got the brick thing.
It's really cool.

Speaker 1 Four-bedroom, four-bath T-bowl for each and every bee over here.

Speaker 1 5,145 square feet on 0.72 acres, built in 1914. Look at the inside of this joint.
Look at how this place is. It is classy, man.
It is like old school classy. It is gorgeous.
$849,900 for that.

Speaker 1 It's funny how when those really nice houses, you can see they ran out of shit to update and make nicer as soon as they start with the ceiling.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 they got ornate shit on the ceiling with wood frames. It's beautiful.
It's beautiful. Well, it's old school.
That's just original woodwork.

Speaker 1 This house has so much original, like intricate woodwork and shelving that's like built-ins. It's gorgeous, man.
This is a gorgeous house. I like this house a lot.

Speaker 1 Things to do here. Got a bunch of stuff to do.
The Great Community Cookout.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Featuring local food trucks, beer tents, exciting raffles. You didn't even have to say beer tents.

Speaker 1 It's Wisconsin. We get it.
There's beer. There's going to be beer.
A car show, inflatables and bouncy houses.

Speaker 1 Bouncy houses. A dunk tank, of course.
Sure. Got to have that.
And activities for the whole family.

Speaker 1 This is great. Located in public parking lot number six across the street from Raw Deal.
I don't know what that is.

Speaker 1 And we do know at dark, get the fuck inside. It's over.
Otherwise, you'll get a raw deal. You're going to get a raw dog and a raw deal.

Speaker 1 There's also music that they don't tell you who's going to be there at all, and everything like that, and a classic car show. There's also music on Maine.

Speaker 1 They're talking about it's a summer music series happening in downtown Menominee. I think it takes place on the lawn of the library.
So

Speaker 1 that's exciting. Live music here.
They have, I was saying live music performances, various venues and eateries. Search for hidden records to win prizes.

Speaker 1 Enjoy extended evening shopping hours with sidewalk sales and outdoor entertainment at the boutiques. My goodness.
The live music we're going to see for the next couple are

Speaker 1 one band is called E. Stearns and Jericho Miguel.
They'll be there. And then the next week they have The Witch Syndicate.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 And The Dirty Pretty, a different band. Yeah.
I mean, all right. I don't know anything about these like that.

Speaker 1 Dirty Pretty might be something that's a touring band, but I doubt it. Maybe.
I'm sure they play a bunch of places like this. It's one of those.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of tiers of bands, kind of like comics.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of tiers. Yeah, there's one called Pretty Reckless, though, and I think that this may be like they might be upset that that girl is doing fantastic because Dirty Pretty

Speaker 1 may have been around before. I don't know.

Speaker 1 I feel like I've heard of them. It doesn't.

Speaker 1 If you're you're playing the lawn of the library in fucking Menominee,

Speaker 1 doing the 7 to 8 p.m. set, you know what I'm saying? Like,

Speaker 1 just work on what you're working on. There's really not a lot going on for you.
And also in a nearby town here of Hayward, they have the 2025 Blues Band of the Year. The Jimmies.
All Jimmies.

Speaker 1 Is that right? Yes, they said they're saving a spot for us.

Speaker 1 We'll be there.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Six guys named Jimmy, and they're going to add two more.
I've been working on the harmonica. Yeah, we got it.
I've been working on it. I mean, I'm looking at it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 We're going to be part of the band.

Speaker 1 We're going to be part of the band there. It's pretty good stuff.
Crime rate in this town. What we're interested in here, the property crime is right about at average, just about average.

Speaker 1 And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about one-third under the national average.
Fairly safe. Kind of typical of college towns.

Speaker 1 You get people, you know, breaking windows, pissing in the streets, doing uncontrollable partying at night. Uncontrollable.
Uncontrollable. And then you get, you know, the violent crimes less.

Speaker 1 So that said, let's talk about some murder, shall we? Here we go. All right.
Well, let's start out hot. What do you say?

Speaker 1 Screw this little ease into this bad boy. December 23rd, 1986.
Let's go back to two days before Christmas. This is at the Paradise Inn.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Paradise Inn nearby here. Room seven, by the way.
Oh, we know the room. That's it.
It's all going to go down in room seven here.

Speaker 1 There's a young man named Paul Zwick, Z-W-I-C-K, Paul Zwick. He's 23 at the time.
He is a maintenance worker at the hotel and a part-time desk clerk. Okay.
So he does the maintenance shift. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And if it's nighttime, because he works like the night shift. So if it's nighttime,

Speaker 1 you know, somebody needs to do something at the desk. He'll do that and then he'll go fix something and then he'll sit there pretty much for the rest of of the time.
It's a small town motel.

Speaker 1 What the fuck are we talking about here? So not that overwhelming with workload. He plans to join the Navy the next month.
He's been already done. He was a young man.

Speaker 1 He's already enlisted in the Navy and he plans to leave next month. Yeah, he's 23, which is young still, but

Speaker 1 kind of, he didn't go to college.

Speaker 1 When people join the Navy when they're 23, it means they've tried some other shit and it didn't work. You know what I'm saying? I know this just from experience of knowing people.

Speaker 1 There's those gung-ho people who join right out of high school.

Speaker 1 And then there's those people that are like, well, I got, this is my last attempt at something. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And at 23, if you're working at the hotel and doing pretty much everything there on the night shift, your parents are probably going, you can't do this your whole fucking life.

Speaker 1 You got to do something. Well, there's nothing in this town.
Well, then fucking enlist in the army. I don't know.
Yeah. Get the fuck out of here.

Speaker 1 So anyway, he is covering the night shift for holiday pegs. He gets paid extra because it's around Christmas.
So he's like, I'll fucking cover the night shift. I'll do it.
I don't mind.

Speaker 1 So he's doing that this night. Now, so it's not his normal night to work.
Now at 11.30 p.m. that night, damn near Christmas Eve,

Speaker 1 there's a call at the front desk to him, and it's a maintenance call. Someone's saying there's room seven saying there's something wrong with my heater.
Oh, boy. Can you come fix it?

Speaker 1 Because we're talking about December in Wisconsin. Not a good time to not have

Speaker 1 heater's broken.

Speaker 1 You're going out and fixing it. You're right there.
Zwick grabs his toolbox, and this happens all the time, too. It's kind of a run-down motel.
I assume they don't have the greatest, newest equipment.

Speaker 1 So he's fixing heaters quite a bit here. So he enters room seven.
Now, the occupant of room seven and the person who called for the heater to be repaired is a man named Alvin Edward Taylor.

Speaker 1 Okay. Now, Alvin Edward Taylor, born in 1947, so he's almost 40 at this point in time.

Speaker 1 He is a traveling musician. Yeah.
Yeah, he plays all around the area, Minnesota, all around this area, the Wisconsin Dells. He goes there and does all their shit.

Speaker 1 He's very fucking parkgrass. At the moment,

Speaker 1 if he can get that gig, that's sought after.

Speaker 1 That's sought after.

Speaker 1 He was trying to get it, but Dirty Pretty stole a spot and he was pissed. He was real pissed about it.

Speaker 1 They got pretty reckless. He decided to party uncontrollably.

Speaker 1 So he bases himself out of this motel because, you know, that doesn't pay a lot being a traveling musician like that. So he's living at this hotel.

Speaker 1 You know, traveling guy, very strange-looking man. He has,

Speaker 1 he has,

Speaker 1 he looks like, he looks like if you took like Hank Kingsley, Jeffrey Tambour from the Larry Sanders show with the mustache and the extremely bald head with the just little tiny ring of hair.

Speaker 1 Very low, very low ring. Okay.

Speaker 1 So take that guy, take Jeffrey Tambour

Speaker 1 and turn him black.

Speaker 1 And that's who you have here. Really? Black Tambour

Speaker 1 is what he looks like. That hair, and it's terrible looking.
His hair looks awful because it's a little ring and a dumb mustache and the whole deal.

Speaker 1 Now he's hanging out

Speaker 1 when Paul Zwick gets into the room. He goes in, he doesn't see anybody.
He opens the door. He doesn't see anybody in there.
He's like, hello.

Speaker 1 Behind the door is Alvin Taylor, this guy, Alvin Edward Taylor. Now, Alvin is behind the door holding a hammer.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He takes a swing with the hammer at Paul Zwick. Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Doesn't hit him full-on, glancing blow to the head. Uh-huh.
So, still, a glancing blow to the head with a hammer, still a blow to the head with a fucking hammer. That'll cut you open.

Speaker 1 So it makes Zwick stumble because, first of all, he didn't even see it coming. So that hit him in the head.
So it makes him stumble, but he stays on his feet.

Speaker 1 He keeps coming, Alvin does, with this hammer. Swings it, misses Paul, completely hits the wall.

Speaker 1 Ends up putting a big hole in the wall with the hammer,

Speaker 1 leaving a big, giant hole.

Speaker 1 Now, Zwick, he's in a closed, because the door was shut at this point.

Speaker 1 So he's in a very closed, I assume it's not a, you know, not a suite at the Waldorf, so it's probably a small little room with a guy who he doesn't even know has no idea what's going on and is swinging a hammer at him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and putting holes in the drywall that I'm going to have to fix later. And he's doing like the, that's the other thing.

Speaker 1 And he's doing like fucking Dante from Clerks going, I'm not even supposed to be here today the whole time. Come on, man.

Speaker 1 So that's how this is going. At this point, he's bleeding and he's a little bit dazed from being hit in the head, but Zwick, being 23 and also a former high school wrestler,

Speaker 1 decides,

Speaker 1 I got to attack this guy. That's the only way I'm getting out of this.
So he attacks him, just tries to tackle his ass, Alvin Taylor.

Speaker 1 So they wrestle around for a minute, and and Zwick gets the hammer away from him. Oh.
Paul Zwick, probably saving his own life.

Speaker 1 But the problem is Alvin Taylor pulls a screwdriver out of his pocket, out of under the bed. We don't know where it came from, but he's got a screwdriver now.
He's got a whole ass

Speaker 1 toolbox full of weapons.

Speaker 1 Yeah. He's ready to roll.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He could have fixed his own heater. He's got enough tools.
That was the problem. So he pulls the screwdriver out and starts stabbing Paul Zwick, just stabbing his ass.

Speaker 1 Stabs him in the shoulder, stabs him in the arm, stabs him in his side with a screwdriver. And a screwdriver, that's a brutal thing to be stabbed with.

Speaker 1 You'd rather be stabbed with a knife generally, although it can go in deeper and cut organs. It hurts less to go in because it's sharp and made to do that.

Speaker 1 A screwdriver is just a big, nasty puncture hole. It's terrible.

Speaker 1 So he's stabbing him, stabbing him. And

Speaker 1 Zwick, though, is still, he's doing a good job wrestling him. He's contained him, but the guy's kind of trying to stab him off of him, basically.

Speaker 1 So it's a mess here. He then gets on top of Alvin Taylor

Speaker 1 and begins punching him, just starts wailing on him, as you would do.

Speaker 1 Just beating him, beating and beating him until Alvin Taylor goes limp and unconscious from being pummeled, okay? Holy.

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Speaker 1 So he leaves his attacker on the floor. Fucking

Speaker 1 they're both bleeding now. This Alvin's bleeding from the face.
He's bleeding from several everywhere halls from his head. He's got all sorts of shit going on.

Speaker 1 So Patrick Zwick, or Paul Zwick, I'm sorry, runs out of the room. Uh-huh.
Now, what do you think he does? Go call 911 at the desk. Right to the front desk, right? Yeah.
No.

Speaker 1 He runs out of the room

Speaker 1 across the parking lot

Speaker 1 to his 1978 Camaro that's parked out there. Sweet ride, bro.
Oh, yeah. It's got a 350 and I'm out of here.

Speaker 1 That one does not have a 350 probably. 78? Sure it does.

Speaker 1 Those started to get real weak in those late 70s.

Speaker 1 78?

Speaker 1 It should have a 350. The Trans Am maybe.

Speaker 1 Or the Firebird.

Speaker 1 The Firebird? The SS? Yeah, the Z28 is what I'm going for. That maybe, but not the

Speaker 1 regular? The Z6? It might be. It might have have a 350, but those were weak anyway.
Those were big.

Speaker 1 That 350 was weak in that. Yeah, the 78 was the long front end with the recessed lights in the

Speaker 1 weird tunnels on the corners. After 76, you kind of want to, yeah, it's a different thing.
78, I like the way they look.

Speaker 1 That Rocky Transam look, basically. That long, the Rocky II car.
So anyway, he jumps into the 1978 Camaro and drives himself to the hospital. Oh, wow.
He got away.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he got away, drove to the hospital, which that makes sense. You know, you call 911, just go to the hospital if you can do it.
You know what I mean? You don't stand there and wait.

Speaker 1 You could have been at the hospital already. So when he gets there, the ER nurses go, my God, what happened? Uh-huh.
They call the police. He says what? Because it looks like he's been attacked.

Speaker 1 They call the police. They say, oh, my God, what happened?

Speaker 1 He said, quote, got jumped, don't know by who.

Speaker 1 Why? He knows exactly who it is. The man is registered with a fucking registration card at the hotel.
Is he Italian?

Speaker 1 He absolutely says, hey, you know, Zwick doesn't sound like an Italian name, but he's like, listen, none of my business. He really keeps it to himself.
None of my business.

Speaker 1 So the cops came and they said, look,

Speaker 1 what happened? You know, where did this happen? What happened? And all he would say to them is, couldn't see his face, too dark. Don't know what happened.
It was dark out. Somebody just jumped me.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Why would he do this? I got away.

Speaker 1 Then his parents asked him, too, and he said, wrong place, wrong time. Somebody just jumped me.
I don't know what happened. It happens sometimes, I guess didn't want to deal with it

Speaker 1 he is set to leave for the Navy on January 5th and he doesn't want he just doesn't care he doesn't want to deal with it which is crazy at least you'd think you'd want to get the guy kicked out of the hotel for Christ's sake right

Speaker 1 they you know where he's at you know what what room he's in you know so much about him why not just have him arrested not only that but what happens when he calls for more towels next time and some yeah some fucking you know maid comes into the room and he jumps her then what happens like

Speaker 1 you got to tell people about this shit. This is insane.

Speaker 1 He doesn't, though. Now, doesn't do it.
Now, obviously, the question is, why did you not tell on this? Why don't say anything? What the hell are you doing?

Speaker 1 And this is what he said later on. This is years later.
He said, quote, I was leaving for the Navy in two weeks. Didn't want to deal with courts and trials and bullshit.

Speaker 1 Just wanted to get the hell out of Wisconsin. That's how much this place sucks.
Wow. He's like, you can stab me.

Speaker 1 That won't keep me here. I don't give a fuck if they had to wheel my hospital bed to the goddamn naval ship.
I'm going there. I don't care.
I can't imagine.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, on January 5th, he reports to the naval station for basic training, and that's that.

Speaker 1 Forgets about it completely. Yeah.
Okay. Now, the next day after that.

Speaker 1 We're going to this is something that's going to recur over the course of this episode. The day after, not the day after he leaves for the Navy, but the day after the attack, Christmas Eve, 1986,

Speaker 1 Alvin, who has a journal that he writes in,

Speaker 1 wrote in his journal. We're going to call this Alvin's Fun Time Journal Entries, okay, because he's going to have a bunch of them throughout the whole thing.

Speaker 1 He said on December 24th, 1986, the demon was stronger than expected.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 yeah. Does he mean the one that was inside him or the one that came to the door? Is he delusional? Young vessel, military training pending.
The force says wait. Better targets coming.
Oh.

Speaker 1 That's what he wrote. One more time.
The demon was stronger than expected. That's Paul's wick.
Young vessel, military training pending.

Speaker 1 Paul's wick. The force.
And by the way, the force is written in all caps. Yeah.
The force says wait. Okay, so the force is inside him, right? Yes.
Better targets coming. So hold on.
He's not the one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that one was too strong.

Speaker 1 Wow. Which Star Wars did this one come come out of? Yeah, I don't know.
This must have been episode whatever. I don't know, because I don't recall this.

Speaker 1 The force being inside of a crazy person in a monomine motel room. I don't know that one.

Speaker 1 So who is this goddamn lunatic with crazy diary entries and just unprovoked attacks on strangers? Okay. This is Alan Edward Taylor, like we said, born 1947.
He is born in Milwaukee.

Speaker 1 He's from the south side of Milwaukee.

Speaker 1 Kind of low, you know, low blue collar type of deal, you know, lower middle class.

Speaker 1 His father, and this was in the 50s, by the way.

Speaker 1 So in the 50s in Wisconsin, I'm sure the beer was flowing. I'm sure this was normal, not okay, but normal.
His father beat the shit out of him on a regular basis. Damn it.

Speaker 1 Which some people, that really affects them badly, and obviously you shouldn't do that. But in the 50s, that was considered kind of normal.
You know what I mean? Part of it, yeah.

Speaker 1 That was considered being a good dad in the 50s. Like, oh, well, I mean, he pays attention to his kids.
Look at his son. He's got a black eye.
Clearly, he's a great dad. He pays attention.

Speaker 1 He was growing up, babe. He was crazy.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 this was more than just a smack around once in a while. This was regular beatings he was getting here.

Speaker 1 His mother was aggressively Midwestern and would just pretend like it wasn't happening.

Speaker 1 It's like, oh, well, got some of this cooking. Like, Like,

Speaker 1 I don't know what's going on over there with old Alvin, but, you know,

Speaker 1 it's okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And interesting.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 it's strange. And he said

Speaker 1 it was not really neglect, but not

Speaker 1 just she seemed to just not care. She didn't be detached from the whole situation and anything that was going on with him.
She was just in the kitchen doing stuff. That was it.
Okay. So interesting.

Speaker 1 So Alvin, as a young man, um

Speaker 1 gets into music that's kind of his escape from everything yeah uh there's a piano in the basement of his house and he teaches himself how to play the piano in the basement of his house i assume while hiding from a beating you know what i mean while trying to avoid a beating

Speaker 1 i can only imagine well maybe if i play something he likes he'll stop beating me so he had done all of this and over time through his childhood he plays more and more into music starts to try to sing.

Speaker 1 He wants to be a musician. That's what he's all about.
That's

Speaker 1 the escape from Milwaukee that he sees here.

Speaker 1 So by his 20s, he starts to do shows where he's going from town to town. He's booked at like a hotel for two nights to sing in their lounge and then over there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm sure a lot of this is for free bar tabs and

Speaker 1 dinner things in a room. Yeah,

Speaker 1 we've done those comedy gigs. We know this.

Speaker 1 Water and shelter is what you're playing for. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you drive there on your own fucking dime. Yeah.
How often. Food gas money.
You're playing for food, water, shelter. Remember how sought after those comedy gigs were in Arizona?

Speaker 1 Oh, you mean a casino that's two hours away that I don't even want to stay at? You mean I can go there, perform, and then they'll just give me free food and drinks? That sounds great. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 I'll pay $40 in gas to get there. I'd rather have money.
No, no, no. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's, oh, and it's going to be for 30 indifferent tourists. Oh, excellent.
Please. Indifferent.
Oh,

Speaker 1 you wish they were indifferent. Well, that's how they hate you.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no. That's how it's sold to you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you're like, well, that sounds great. And you get there and they're like, oh, these are drunken people who hate me.
Actively and individually.

Speaker 1 Who are angry that they set up a microphone in this area of the lounge where they were just talking to somebody. Surprised them with comedy.
Oh, that's the best.

Speaker 1 That's the worst thing to surprise people. Nothing worse than assaulting people with comedy.

Speaker 1 The only thing worse is if you just showed up with a trumpet or something and was just like

Speaker 1 every time they went to talk. That would be the only thing worse than.
Let me tell you this dick joke while you're trying to tell somebody about something. I've got a story for you after we're done.

Speaker 1 I'll just say

Speaker 1 the bar I stopped at last night, Prescott. I asked him if they do comedy here ever.
She goes, oh, not anymore. I was like, why?

Speaker 1 We could probably say, let me guess. It was one of these four people that ruined it.
Was it this one, this one, this one. That's the funny part that we knew.
I said, I knew why.

Speaker 1 Oh, you know, I knew exactly why it was ruined. I go,

Speaker 1 were they from Phoenix?

Speaker 1 Obviously. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Where else are they from?

Speaker 1 There's no Kingman comedians or Sierra Vista comedians. There's Phoenix comedians and three in Tucson.

Speaker 1 They waited a year to ask if they could do it again, and they didn't even realize they were talking to the same person. She goes, I remember what happened.
They go, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, never mind.

Speaker 1 Yep. That's comedy in Arizona for you.

Speaker 1 Oh, not anymore, she said. Not anymore.
Oh, that's done now.

Speaker 1 Holy shit. So he's, oh man, that's funny.
So Taylor's trying to do this is what he's trying to do. Alvin Taylor, trying to be that miserable guy.

Speaker 1 Gets all his shit together because this is, we're talking the 70s. He's got his polyester going.
Oh, boy. Oh, the suits and everything like that.

Speaker 1 He sings a combination of Motown hits

Speaker 1 and Frank Sinatra standards, he loves too.

Speaker 1 He loves My Way.

Speaker 1 He loves the Sinatra standards, and he mixes that with a little bit of the temptations for some reason. I'm going to throw that in there, too.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Which is not a bad medley. I'll listen to a Sinatra Motown medley.
Put it together for me. Let's see.
I like both of those.

Speaker 1 It's all Italian restaurant music. It's fine.
It's fine. And

Speaker 1 yeah, and

Speaker 1 he's a good performer. He's very personable.
He's a very

Speaker 1 magnetic performer in terms of he has charisma on stage. He smiles and sings.
And I just picture him on stairway to stardom now.

Speaker 1 It's that, yeah. He's that guy, you know what I mean? So he's doing great.
He's working the circuit.

Speaker 1 And now the circuit, much like comedy in Arizona, consists of a couple of different holiday inns in Madison. Oh.

Speaker 1 A Ramada lounge in Minneapolis

Speaker 1 and any other place he can go. Basically, if there's a piano and he can

Speaker 1 croon and put one of those giant brandy snifters on it for tips, you know those back in the day that you'd see on there.

Speaker 1 You can put one of those up there. He's fine.

Speaker 1 One club owner from Eau Claire, who booked him regularly in the early 80s, said he had this voice, smooth as bourbon, you know?

Speaker 1 Smooth as bourbon?

Speaker 1 Who says that? Take a shot of bourbon and then tell me if it was smooth.

Speaker 1 As you go,

Speaker 1 yeah, smooth. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You can get a decent one, but it's still not smooth. As smooth as bourbon still hurts.
It still hurts. As smooth as a milkshake, maybe.
What are we talking about?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you got to dilute that to make it smooth. Yeah.
Smooth as bourbon, you know, could make my way sound like he wrote it himself, Frank Sinatra. I did it my way, though.
Yeah. The ladies loved him.

Speaker 1 Hell, everybody everybody loved him until they didn't.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Yes,

Speaker 1 that's Alvin.

Speaker 1 He's a great guy to get in the door. Big smile.
Yeah. Fucking charming voice.
Charming guy. Handsome.
Does all this. Everybody, even without, despite the lack of hair, handsome, doing great.

Speaker 1 Ladies loved him. And then

Speaker 1 he would. turn a little nuts and then he wouldn't love him anymore because he's acting crazy.

Speaker 1 He goes on tour in 1969 with a bunch of, with a band band that he's in. He's actually in a band.
Got some fellas.

Speaker 1 Got some fellas, some ladies, and they are touring the northeast, doing a soul act, basically, doing a bunch of soul songs, Motown shit, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 Playing clubs up and down the I-95, basically, and from Boston to Baltimore. That whole thing, which there's a lot of towns in there.
You got Philly, New York, Baltimore. You got a lot going on.

Speaker 1 You can really do it. A lot of population there.
So they were in a Howard Johnson's in Hartford, Connecticut. Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 And there were TVs up in the bar. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They weren't on. The televisions were off.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 they started, he said their television was talking to him.

Speaker 1 No TV. Without it being on,

Speaker 1 which that's a problem. If it's on, you can go, okay, well, yeah, there's a, you know, Walter Kronkin's up there.
Of course, he's talking to him. He's talking head.
They're telling you some stuff.

Speaker 1 Clearly something's happening. But yeah, Archie Bunker's right there.
He's talking to you. But this is a different story.

Speaker 1 This is a turned-off TV, which is crazy.

Speaker 1 This is what everyone will call his first clear psychotic break is at this moment in time here. In the bar,

Speaker 1 first the TV was talking to him. And what the TV was telling him is the important part.
That's where it is. The TV was telling him that there were some men in the bar who were going to kill him.
Mom.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, that's a good heads up. Nice TV.
Thanks.

Speaker 1 So then they left, the band left, and they got on the bus that they were traveling on.

Speaker 1 And on the bus, he started thinking that the people on the bus, his bandmates and the people who travel with the band, that they were plotting to kill him and were actively going to kill him.

Speaker 1 So then they get to the motel. Like, okay, let's get to the motel.
You go in your room and calm down. He started freaking out.
He thought the maid was going to kill him at the hotel.

Speaker 1 Oh, so he's just gone complete nuts. He went up to his, knocked on a bandmate's door, banging on his door.
Um,

Speaker 1 you know, and then he ran away

Speaker 1 and went back in his room, and they go looking for him, and he's barricaded in the bathroom with a chair against the door in the other side of the room.

Speaker 1 He took a chair into the bathroom, put it up there, barricaded himself in the bathroom. And they go, Alvin,

Speaker 1 you okay in there, bud? Yeah, yeah. You got like just a just eat Arby's tonight, or what's the deal here? You got a deuce cooking? What's happening?

Speaker 1 What's wrong, Bob? He says, quote, they're coming for me.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Who is coming for you? Yeah. And he said, can't you hear them? They're using frequencies, the broadcast frequencies.
They're coming for me. Oh, no.
Oh, boy. That's when you start going,

Speaker 1 what do we do with Alvin?

Speaker 1 Yeah. What do we do?

Speaker 1 They left him there. They just left.
They left the motel and left him there. They didn't take him.
They were like, he's fucking crazy. We can't take him down to to the eastern seaboard like this.

Speaker 1 This is insane.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 they went without him.

Speaker 1 So Alvin got a Greyhound bus back to Milwaukee. Oh.
Imagine being on that bus with that guy for three fucking days.

Speaker 1 Boy. And he was convinced the whole time.
He was acting real squirrely for three days, convinced that most of the other passengers were FBI agents.

Speaker 1 Now, okay, that's number one. Who were monitoring his thoughts? Yeah.

Speaker 1 How do you monitor his thoughts, you might ask? Well,

Speaker 1 I do ask

Speaker 1 through the overhead lights in the bus. Oh, those light determines in there.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's how they're monitoring his thoughts. They're sitting around him using the light to monitor his thoughts and then obviously, you know, jotting it all down.
For three days, he's doing this.

Speaker 1 He is a loaded pistol when he gets back there, man. He's out of his mind.
So by 1970, he experiences his first hospitalization, which is probably for the best.

Speaker 1 He got home, freaked out, melted down for another six months, and then ended up in the hospital, the Milwaukee County Mental Health Complex in 1970.

Speaker 1 His diagnosis here

Speaker 1 is acute paranoid schizophrenia. Yeah.
Duh. With auditory hallucinations.
Sure. Not good.
Hears things.

Speaker 1 Thinks there's people there that aren't there. Thinks there's things happening.
Alternate realities are happening. Frightening.

Speaker 1 Treatment, they decided to give him thorazine,

Speaker 1 which basically they just medicated him to a state where he couldn't function. Antipsychotics and

Speaker 1 calming. He was just like walking around in circles, drooling on himself.
He was just a complete mess. He

Speaker 1 couldn't do anything. So now his insurance, I guess, whatever insurance he had,

Speaker 1 stopped paying for this after six weeks. They said, well, that's enough, which nowadays they wouldn't even pay for six weeks.
They wouldn't pay for two fucking minutes of that.

Speaker 1 He should be thankful he got anything. That's what I mean.
Back then, they'd actually do it. Try that now.
They'd go, Well, you're cut him off the fucking rolls.

Speaker 1 On their side, I could see why they wouldn't want to do that because it's going to be A, expensive, and B, if six weeks didn't do it, what the fuck are we going to do? Well, he needs more.

Speaker 1 That's what I mean. That's why we have crazy people walking around killing people because we have insurance companies won't fucking pay for it.

Speaker 1 It's, yeah, force these cocksuckers to pay for mental health care. That's a message.
Boy, is there a quagmire brewing there. That's a mess, a separate mess that we need not get into.

Speaker 1 Well, they can't take care of normal diseases, let alone those outrageous ones. Oh, health.
We meant just physical. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, no, no mental health. Let him kill 20 people.
We got to save a few bucks. I don't care if he fucking goes in and takes out a school.
We need to save a few bucks. What are we talking about?

Speaker 1 We're barely putting bones back together. The brain doesn't have any bones.
Mental health in this country is not in good shape, man. It's not a trouble.
We are in a lot of trouble.

Speaker 1 It's not prioritized at all. I mean, normal people don't even.
It's hard. So through the 1970s, he just

Speaker 1 kind of stumbles his way through. He's singing.
He's doing a lounge act. He's got jobs here and there.

Speaker 1 He did discover something that could help him with the voices. Cocaine.
Co-fucking cane. You got it.

Speaker 1 You're absolutely right.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 He discovered, you know what calms them down? Cocaine. You got to speed them up to calm them down.

Speaker 1 That's what it is.

Speaker 1 It's the mental health riddling.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, they were calling for cocaine.
That was the problem. Then they're like, oh, thank you.
And then they're good after a while. Now we're good.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So that's interesting.
So by 1978, he's selling Coke, too. Oh.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because he works in places like Chicago. He'll do a show and then he'll buy a bunch of Coke and then he's going to go tour a bunch of small towns in Wisconsin where there's no Coke.

Speaker 1 where you can sell coke for three times what you bought it for in the big city so there you go they need coke yeah they need coke yeah these people need it man they're they're all hopped up on curds and beer they need some coke

Speaker 1 you some coke it's beautiful that's it so they're doing it uh 1980 he is in medford wisconsin

Speaker 1 um he had been playing at a bar called the tombstone tap yeah which is a dive bar that basically all of the drugs in town come from as well. That's where you buy drugs.

Speaker 1 You want Coke, you go to the Tombstone Tap.

Speaker 1 Now, I don't know if this is true or not, but according to the internet, I'm going to read you a fact about the Tombstone Tap that's going to blow your fucking mind.

Speaker 1 I bet it's factual. The Tombstone Tap was the original bar in Medford, Wisconsin, where the Tombstone Frozen Pizza Company got its start in 1962.

Speaker 1 That makes all the sense in the world. It does.
It does. It really does.
So that's, especially, that's like a bar pizza, a frozen pizza. Yeah.
That's not considered a bar pizza.

Speaker 1 Those used to be free back in the day at bars. Is that right? In the Midwest, you know the reason why in Chicago they cut it into tiny squares?

Speaker 1 Not just to be frustrating and to ruin the fucking pizza.

Speaker 1 They did that because they were free. The bars would put those out like pretzels or peanuts and people would eat them and that would keep them drinking.

Speaker 1 And so that they cut them into the smaller squares so they'd have more pieces for everybody. Makes all the sense.
And that's little towns.

Speaker 1 They all still have frozen pizzas there. Do you have food here? No, we got pizzas though.
We'll make make you a pizza.

Speaker 1 You'll make me a fucking pizza? Yeah, you'll

Speaker 1 heat me up a red baron. Thanks a lot.
Yeah, they got a toaster oven back there, and they make a shitty pizza. Yeah, I'll eat it when you're drinking.
Who cares? It's not bad.

Speaker 1 So they said the bar was named because it was located across the street from a cemetery. Okay.

Speaker 1 While the bar itself no longer exists in its original form, the city of Medford is still home to the company's roots and its manufacturing facilities. Oh, they're still making that garbage.

Speaker 1 Apparently, yeah, the Tombstone Tap was opened by Pep and Ron Simic in 1962. They started to make pizzas to get people into the bar and keep them drinking.

Speaker 1 Pizzas became super popular, so they started selling them to other taverns in the area.

Speaker 1 Eventually,

Speaker 1 outgrowing the bar's kitchen, they had to move into a manufacturing facility in Medford. And then it was, the company was sold to Kraft Foods in 1986, and now is owned by Nestle.

Speaker 1 So that pizza is so far removed from being a Wisconsin bar pizza. Now it's

Speaker 1 been passed around by multiple multinational conglomerates.

Speaker 1 Turns into some bullshit. What do you want on your tombstone? Absolutely.

Speaker 1 So here he is.

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ. He's being a salesman at this point,

Speaker 1 Alvin. He's a Coke salesman.

Speaker 1 There is an undercover operation at the Tombstone Tap by the police about cocaine sales. It's a three-month investigation.

Speaker 1 And Alvin ends up being caught with two ounces in his car, two ounces of Coke. Dang.
Back then, too. That's a lot of Coke back then.
It sure is. In his Buick Le Sabre.

Speaker 1 So then they went and searched his motel room at the Starlight Inn and found another four ounces of Coke there. Oh, boy, I had six ounces.
He had six fucking ounces of Coke. That's a lot of Coke.

Speaker 1 He is the major distributor of the area. He is.
That's what that is. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So the arrest reports noted that he was, quote, cooperative, but appeared to be responding to unseen stimuli. In other words, fucking crazy.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Cooperative, but also answering questions from the air that nobody asked and, you know,

Speaker 1 saying stuff as bother, they could tell he's nuts. So he goes to prison to Wapun,

Speaker 1 which from 1980 to 1983.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 inside the joint now,

Speaker 1 he's not getting medication.

Speaker 1 He doesn't have his cocaine to keep the voices at bay. So

Speaker 1 nothing to keep the voices at bay. No music to play either.
He is just

Speaker 1 insane in jail. Voices like crazy, talking to himself, yelling at nothing, acting like a fucking lunatic

Speaker 1 at all times.

Speaker 1 A prison psychiatrist noted thusly: quote, patient believes he receives divine missions

Speaker 1 through electrical devices. Oh, boy.
God will contact you through the toaster. Don't worry.
It'll be there.

Speaker 1 God's going to contact you through the curling iron. Keep your ears open.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Holy shit.
Quote, particular fixation as being on being chosen as God's soldier to eliminate evil from earth. Uh-oh.
This is not good.

Speaker 1 When someone feels they've been divinely tasked to clean up the garbage, that's not a good thing at all.

Speaker 1 Then said prescribed HALDAL, but compliance questionable.

Speaker 1 He does not like meds is the other problem.

Speaker 1 When you get somebody who's detached from reality and does not like meds, that is bad. Because

Speaker 1 at some point, they voluntarily have to take medicine. Yeah.
Or be crazy. What are you going to do about this? You got to be doing that for a long time, right? No, no, no.

Speaker 1 In 1983, he's released early for good behavior. This is good behavior.
Or pain in the ass, such a pain in the ass that we call it good and let him go. It's

Speaker 1 sure, he's talking to people and he's yelling at the electrical outlets, but he hasn't stabbed anybody. So, in prison, that's considered good behavior.
Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 Nobody, by the way, the state doesn't follow up on any psychiatric recommendations. No, like nothing.
They don't say like you have to go see somebody who then makes you go see a shrink.

Speaker 1 None of that shit. They just say, bye, and release him out into the wild.
Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 So he goes back to playing music music because that's the only way he can make a living, really, and that's what he knows how to do. So he does that.
He just, you know, gets gigs here and there.

Speaker 1 And it's been three years, so his networks are kind of crumbled a little bit, but he was doing it.

Speaker 1 He comes back to one place he had worked before called the Lamplighter. And a bartender there named Martha said, that Martha's a hot piece of ass, as we know, obviously from earlier episodes.

Speaker 1 Quote, he was different after prison, still charming, still had that voice, but sometimes he'd stop mid-song and stare at nothing.

Speaker 1 I didn't mind.

Speaker 1 Fuck's going on over there. Hey, turn that light off.
It keeps talking to me. Like, turn the ceiling fan off.
I can't take it.

Speaker 1 And, quote, like he was listening to something nobody else could hear. Because he is.

Speaker 1 He's listening to voices that other people don't hear. They're talking back.
They are talking back. Yeah, he's listening to shit.

Speaker 1 He based himself out of Eau Claire, renting a series of shitty apartments, motel rooms, just kind of

Speaker 1 in that area. Eau Claire, by the way, is very near Menominee.

Speaker 1 It goes Menominee, Springbrook, two separate words, because there's a, by the way, there's another Springbrook in Wisconsin. That's one fucking word.
This is Spring Brook.

Speaker 1 And then there's Ea Claire over there to the east. Now,

Speaker 1 he based himself there, and that means he can go from there to the Twin Cities down to Madison and back and play gigs that way, a little kind of triangular tour, basically, that he does.

Speaker 1 He works at the Paradise Inn in West Bend. Paradise Inn in West Bend is the place where he attacked Paul Zwick later on.
Oh, right. So he's working there doing stuff there.

Speaker 1 They take him back at the Tombstone,

Speaker 1 even though he got busted selling massive amounts of Coke out of there. Hey, he's a good singer.
What do you want? Yeah. And sometimes people deserve a second chance.
They do. Yeah.
Who knows?

Speaker 1 He was selling Coke. It was 1980.
He wasn't doing Coke and selling Coke. Who cares?

Speaker 1 And also at the lamp lighter that we mentioned before, which is in Menominee. September 1983, he's prescribed medication.
Oh.

Speaker 1 I don't know what it is, if he went in or was feeling off, but he's prescribed thorazine again,

Speaker 1 but he stopped using it after two weeks, telling a psychiatrist, it makes me unable to perform, which I can totally understand. You can't go do an engaging stage show on thorazine.

Speaker 1 That's incredibly crazy. Imagine going up and trying to do a half hour of stand-up on thorazine.
That would be

Speaker 1 like that. Yeah, anything like I was going to say, anything.
I've done it on plenty of different drugs, but not that one. Not that.
Not one like that. Ones that make you more.
Not a sedative, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, weed.

Speaker 1 Weed,

Speaker 1 you know, mushrooms. Plenty of sedative, sure.
Yeah, if you add plenty of edibles, booze, that's a sedative, and all those. But not thorazine, which is like

Speaker 1 thorazine is like when they're wrestling an elephant to the ground. They're like, hey, stick it in, just get him.
They hit him with a thorazine. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's some giant lunatic in prison or some shit. So January 1984, he's given a Haldahl prescription.
He never fills it. Oh, just given a prescription.

Speaker 1 He doesn't go to the pharmacy and get it done or anything.

Speaker 1 1984 in June here,

Speaker 1 he is hospitalized briefly in Milwaukee,

Speaker 1 but he's released after 72 hours. They hold him for 72.
Can't hold him any more than that unless he's a danger to himself or others. What year is that, though, that they're doing? 84.
84.

Speaker 1 They don't know what the fuck they're doing yet. No, they don't have any idea.
Just stick him with the thorazine? Yeah, did that work? I don't know. That's all we got.
Does he give him half dollar?

Speaker 1 He didn't take it? Well, weird. I don't know, man.
I don't know what to tell you.

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Speaker 1 November 1984. Okay, he is.
Things are going a little sideways for him, obviously. He meets a friend.
Everybody needs a friend. Sure.

Speaker 1 Everybody needs a friend. And he does.
He meets a friend named Robert Williams.

Speaker 1 Not Robin Williams, Robert Williams,

Speaker 1 old Bobby Will here. He's 38 years old.
Williams had moved to the Eau Claire area in June 1980 when he had found a job at Cray Research in Chippewa Falls. Okay.

Speaker 1 So he does computer stuff. He's a computer guy, basically.

Speaker 1 He works at this point in 1984 for NR or NCR Corporation in Eau Claire, installing and maintaining computer systems for businesses trying to, you know, basically this is the beginning of the computer age.

Speaker 1 So there's tons of businesses that are going from paper to computers at this point in the 80s. Like they're getting their first computer system.

Speaker 1 And so being a computer guy that installs that kind of shit is a very good job back then for that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 So he's divorced. He has no kids.
Old Bob Williams here.

Speaker 1 He meets Alvin Taylor. at a bar in November of 84.

Speaker 1 Alvin was playing at the bar.

Speaker 1 It's Charlie's West Side Bar is the name of it. He was playing his, it was a Friday night.
He was playing his stuff.

Speaker 1 He was singing everything.

Speaker 1 And Bob Williams here, he requests, he put a request up there. Hey, can you sing this?

Speaker 1 Sure, fuck it. He sang, he asked for Fly Me to the Moon, Frank Sinatra, standard.

Speaker 1 And Alvin Taylor was like, fuck yeah, right in my wheelhouse, no problem. So he sang it, and after a set, they started talking.
And they both really love Frank Sinatra music.

Speaker 1 So they were talking about Frank Sinatra for a while, and they're both fans of the Cincinnati Reds baseball team. So that's good.
They're like, oh, you're a Reds fan. I'm a Reds fan, too, which is...

Speaker 1 In the middle of nowhere in Wisconsin, probably isn't that common for you to be a Reds fan. You know what I mean? Maybe Brewers, maybe

Speaker 1 Cubs or White Sox or twins even, because you're an hour away from there, but probably not the Reds. So that's something that you would, you know, notice about someone and talk to them about.

Speaker 1 Now, Bob himself was kind of a lonely guy. He was divorced semi-recently and not doing real well with it.

Speaker 1 That's why he's out by himself at a bar on a Friday night requesting fly me to the moon rather than being with significant others or friends or anything like that. Bob's sister said, Bob was lonely.

Speaker 1 The divorce hit him hard. He was always looking for friends, for connections.
When he told me about this singer he'd met, how they were hanging out, I was happy for him. God, I was so happy for him.

Speaker 1 That's what she said. So they started hanging out and became good friends.
And Alvin doesn't have a lot of friends that he hangs out with. And neither does Bob.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, he's got those friends.

Speaker 1 They're mainly adversaries, though, really, I think.

Speaker 1 So they developed an actual friendship. Bob would go to Alvin's shows and, you know, all that kind of shit.
And, you know, they would.

Speaker 1 drink together and uh bob sometimes would do like kind of roadie work for him he'd just help him you know help you move your speaker in or your whatever equipment he had.

Speaker 1 He'd help him with that kind of shit. And Alvin would call Bob and they would hang out and, you know,

Speaker 1 do their thing.

Speaker 1 Here is, oh, we're going to have Alvin's fun time journal entry again here.

Speaker 1 It's Alvin's fun time journal time. Okay.

Speaker 1 December 12th, 1984,

Speaker 1 from Alvin in his journal. Quote: Bob Williams.

Speaker 1 Okay, that's what we're talking about. His friend Bob Williams.
Bob Williams-sent by all caps, them.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh. Bob Williams, sent by them.
Uh-oh.

Speaker 1 Pretends friendship, but monitors, he writes. Yeah.
Electronic surveillance through his computer knowledge.

Speaker 1 That's what he's saying. So somehow his knowledge of computers allows him to be able to re-jigger the electronic equipment to be able to monitor him.
Okay. At the request of, quote, them.
Them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Whoever that is. Okay.

Speaker 1 Now we have Alvin's Funtime Journal entry from July 3rd, 1985.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Williams asking questions, too many questions.
Where do I live? Where do I go? You know, like a friend would ask you normal questions about yourself. That's considered.

Speaker 1 Like if you ask somebody,

Speaker 1 if you were an alien and you got dropped down and you went to people and you go, well, how do you make a friend with somebody? What do you do? How do you, you know, show interest?

Speaker 1 They would say, ask them questions about themselves.

Speaker 1 That shows you're interested, right? That would be, that's how you do that shit.

Speaker 1 On first dates, they often say, don't just answer questions, ask questions.

Speaker 1 Yeah, where do you live? Where do you go? Things of that nature. What are you interested in? Yes or no?

Speaker 1 Ask about them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, don't just talk about yourself. Talk about them.
That's the whole way you do it.

Speaker 1 Where do I go? Where do I live? FBI, question mark, CIA question mark.

Speaker 1 and then all caps, the force warns me. Oh, it's saying beware.
Beware of Bob Williams because he's asking too many questions about where he lives and where he goes and he must be in this FBI, CIA.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing. I don't know what he thinks the FBI or CIA is interested in him about.
He never seems to say like, they're after me because A, B, and C. It's just they're just after him.

Speaker 1 They're just after me. Shows how exactly crazy he is.
He doesn't even have like a step B for them. Step one, find out everything about Alvin.
Step two, we'll work on that later.

Speaker 1 That's after Alvin.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Early 1985 now.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Because that was January 3rd, 85 was that last journal entry. Sure.
Early 1985, this is in Springbrook, Wisconsin, which is between Menominee and Eau Claire. And it's a little town.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 One of the space? The one with the Spring Space Brook. This says there's nothing here.
There is not a restaurant, a gas station, not a fucking thing here. Is there a spring or a brook? Neither.

Speaker 1 So Alvin

Speaker 1 finds a farmhouse to rent here.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh. It's super rural, so it's going to be cheap if you can find something, basically.
This is

Speaker 1 a white, kind of a shitty white house, basically.

Speaker 1 Shitty white old house with peeling paint, but surrounded by 40 acres of

Speaker 1 woods and land, basically. Nearest neighbors over a quarter mile away.
Shit, yeah. This is what Alan needs.

Speaker 1 First of all, if you're going to fuck with music, this is nice. You're not disturbing

Speaker 1 anybody. And if you're going to be an insane person, this is probably the best place for you to keep you out of everybody's hair.
Now,

Speaker 1 very private, all that kind of thing. The landlord said he paid six months up front in cash.
Wow.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you're not going to even ask a background. You're not going to ask any follow-up.
Where do you live and where do you go? Where do you go if someone pays six months advance in cash? Six months advance.

Speaker 1 I'll fucking forgot six months. Yeah.
Yeah. He said, said he needed somewhere quiet to write music.
I didn't ask questions. Cash spends.

Speaker 1 I didn't ask. I had cash in hand.
So I said, great.

Speaker 1 See ya. Fuck it.
That's hilarious. Cash spends.
So the farmhouse becomes his home base.

Speaker 1 He's always, I mean, he's only here a few nights at a time and he's out on the road or he's out doing something. He's always moving, always doing shit.

Speaker 1 And also, the voices are still happening, so they tell him to go places and do things. It's a lot.

Speaker 1 More of Alvin's Funtime Journal here.

Speaker 1 Here we go. Alvin's Funtime Journal, March 18th, 1985.

Speaker 1 Quote, the television confirms.

Speaker 1 First of all, the television doesn't confirm anything. Wow.
It just puts stuff out.

Speaker 1 To confirm, mean you'd have to put info in, and then they, no it's just it's just telling you shit the television confirms williams equals

Speaker 1 demon operative yeah

Speaker 1 so bob williams equal sign demon operative obviously elimination authorized by divine frequency uh-oh so through the television yeah he has been told that bob williams is a demon operative and i assume you know

Speaker 1 through

Speaker 1 through the bedside lamp that divine frequency has been authorized, has authorized him to eliminate Bob Williams is what he's saying.

Speaker 1 Okay, July 15th, 1985.

Speaker 1 Alvin Taylor calls Bob Williams that morning. He says, hey, why don't you come over tonight?

Speaker 1 You should come over and hang out tonight.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm working on some songs and I got some new songs I'd like to play for you on the piano and I can sing them and you tell me what you think of them and, you know, bring some beer and we'll hang hang out and play some music and whatever.

Speaker 1 Fun Friday night, you know. So, Bob Williams drives his,

Speaker 1 he's got a 1982 Ford escort, so he's doing great. Hell yeah.

Speaker 1 It's about 40 minutes from El Claire to Springbrook, from where he was to Springbrook. He stopped at Fuzzy's Liquor Store.

Speaker 1 Fuzzy's Liquor Store got a 12-pack of Miller High Life. Oh, baby.
My God. Yikes, your stomach is going to be hating you tomorrow.

Speaker 1 The receipt is time stamped at 6.47 p.m. So we know that's when that happened.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 We assume he went over to the house.

Speaker 1 That is July 15th. It's a Friday night.
Now, by July 18th on Monday morning,

Speaker 1 Bob Williams doesn't show up for work.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 At the computer place.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 they, the work, calls his house and they talk to his ex-wife, Willie. She probably divorced him because her name was Willie Williams and decided that was ridiculous and you can't do that.

Speaker 1 So she had to get a divorce.

Speaker 1 So she tried to find him too based on what the work people said. She couldn't find him.
She files a missing person report with the police on July 20th.

Speaker 1 So they do an investigation, but it's pretty minimal in 1985. Like,

Speaker 1 because there's no,

Speaker 1 he doesn't have any like, you know, history of mental illness or like regular illness or anything that would make you like afraid that he's like, you know, dead in the woods somewhere.

Speaker 1 He fell over while going for a walk.

Speaker 1 He's got, he's been some, he's been depressed a bit. He's just divorced recently.
They go to his house. Everything's in place.
Nothing looks weird. So they're like, what do we do with this?

Speaker 1 It's probably just some guy. couldn't take it anymore and took off.
His apartment looks depressing. I'd leave too.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like, who knows? You know,

Speaker 1 he's a grown man. If he wants to leave, he can leave.
Leave him alone. And especially because it's the ex-wife calling it in.
They're like, oh, fuck it.

Speaker 1 Maybe he doesn't feel like fucking talking to her. Maybe that's why.

Speaker 1 She's mad. She's not getting shit.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And also, yeah, if your ex-wife is talking, you're like, yeah, maybe I wouldn't call my ex-wife back either.

Speaker 1 And she's going to call the cops and now they're over at my house.

Speaker 1 And so they're like, eh, fuck it. He's fine.
She's probably just trying to get away from this lady. Whatever.
So that's that.

Speaker 1 They don't, after a couple of weeks, they don't even think about it anymore. Okay, file goes in the back of the cabinet.
Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Probably took off. What do we care?

Speaker 1 Adults are allowed to leave, basically.

Speaker 1 He's out being a guy somewhere. Leave him alone.
Leave him alone. Maybe he's getting some.

Speaker 1 Maybe he started a new family. Who the hell knows? He could do whatever he wants.
Maybe he went to Canada just to try the syrup. You never know.
Maybe he's ricing in northern Minnesota. We don't know.

Speaker 1 So that Friday,

Speaker 1 after the Monday he's reported missing,

Speaker 1 he continues performing. Alvin does.
He performs at Charlie's Westside Bar that Friday, the same one.

Speaker 1 Sang Fly Me to the Moon, even, Bob's favorite. No Bob, though.
I don't know if he thought maybe that would make him materialize. If he sang Fly Me to the Moon, Bob would appear, but he didn't.

Speaker 1 So where the hell is Bob?

Speaker 1 Let's find out what actually happened to Bob, shall we?

Speaker 1 Here. Okay.
Now,

Speaker 1 they

Speaker 1 were

Speaker 1 sitting on the back porch. Bob came over to Alvin's house.
Yeah. They're sitting on the back porch, drinking beer and just hanging out.

Speaker 1 The sun is setting. There's cornfields they're looking at, just sunsetting, chilling.
Nice night.

Speaker 1 Nice night.

Speaker 1 12-pack of MGD. Yeah, he's going to play some songs.
Oh, it's high life, actually. It isn't.
High life. Not an MGD.
High life is diarrhea fuel. That's bad, yeah.

Speaker 1 So Bob was talking about his job, was talking about computer systems and a new code that he was

Speaker 1 working on, and he's decoding different things. Alvin doesn't know shit about what this means, but he's nodding along, you know, just listening to people.

Speaker 1 You know, how you listen to people's very specific work things, and you're like, I don't know what that means.

Speaker 1 Professional references and they got

Speaker 1 acronyms and shit. Yeah,

Speaker 1 no,

Speaker 1 they got jargon. They got fucking jargon.
Oh, your TPS report. Great.
Yeah, we know all about that. Like, who the fuck knows what you're talking about?

Speaker 1 So then, according to Alvin, while this is happening, quote, then the message came through. Oh, then he got a brain fax.
The message.

Speaker 1 Not through the radio this time, through Bob himself, is what Alvin said. Alvin said.
They used Bob. Quote, his voice changed, became their voice, demonic, threatening.

Speaker 1 So Bob was just talking about computer code, and then he was like, yeah, so you got to put in the thing, and he's like, I will eat your soul. And Alvin's like, oh, shit.
Wow, that's a lot. Sugar.

Speaker 1 Give me sugar. Either that or he's like, you know,

Speaker 1 talking about MS-DOS. He started getting into computer shit that way.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 Alvin said when this happened, he said he got up, politely, excused himself. He said, excuse me a minute, Bob.
I have to go inside for a second.

Speaker 1 Went inside, goes into his bedroom, grabs a 357 Magnum out of his dresser drawer. Oh, shit.

Speaker 1 The fact that this guy has a 357 Magnum is terrifying. Yeah, that's awesome.
It's completely terrifying.

Speaker 1 This guy,

Speaker 1 he shouldn't be able to have a fucking rubber band and a nickel. Like, never mind an actual weapon.
This is crazy. What the fuck?

Speaker 1 A Dennis the Menace slingshot would be a lot for this guy. So he comes back out.
Bob still, you know, starts talking again. They were just oblivious to the whole thing.

Speaker 1 They're just beer chat at this point.

Speaker 1 So as they're talking out of nowhere, Alvin just raises the gun and shoots Bob right in the fucking head. Wow.
Through the skull, right above the right ear.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Bob falls forward. Beer bottle breaks on the ground.
The whole deal. Then he shoots him again, as if a 357 to the side of the head at close range wouldn't do it.
Shoots him in the torso this time.

Speaker 1 Bob falls off the chair.

Speaker 1 So he's obviously a goner.

Speaker 1 Alvin comes over, stands over him. aims at his head again, fires again, quote, to make sure the demon demon was expelled.

Speaker 1 Oh, you got to vent it. Yeah, it's the thing.
The two shots might not, I mean, he might be dead, but the demon could still be in there. Yeah, shot him

Speaker 1 run in his gut, shot him in the gut, it ran back into his head. Now he's, I've got to open the door to let him out.
You know what I mean? It's like having a raccoon gets in your living room.

Speaker 1 You can't close up the whole house at that point. You got to open all the doors so he can run out.
This is fascinating.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Apparently, he

Speaker 1 first started thinking of killing in 1984, the year before.

Speaker 1 And, you know,

Speaker 1 he liked Robert Williams. He said he liked Bob, but he thought Bob had killed someone.
Oh.

Speaker 1 Then at one point, when he was in town,

Speaker 1 okay, I don't know which town this was, but in one of the small towns, Alvin heard a small child

Speaker 1 say to him,

Speaker 1 quote, yeah, get rid of him. Gotta get him.
So somehow these entities talked to him through a small child and told him, yeah, get rid of him, which obviously Taylor, Alvin

Speaker 1 took as, I should kill my friend Bob. Got to shoot him three times.
Because a small child told me, yeah, get rid of him.

Speaker 1 So where does he put Bob?

Speaker 1 Where?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 before this happened, Taylor spent three days, Alvin spent three days digging a hole in the outside. Three fucking days prior to this.

Speaker 1 He had this planned. He had a very large grave, six feet deep, four feet wide.
Not a fucking, not a shallow grave. He's going to just put some twigs and leaves on it.

Speaker 1 He dug a fucking grave like a psycho. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Six by four is not bad.

Speaker 1 I mean, he clearly knew what he was doing. That's insane.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 that's crazy. He did all of that.
This is behind the farmhouse where the property meets a tree line right up there. He also went to Hansen's farm supply the previous week, by the way,

Speaker 1 before he killed Bob, and bought 50 pounds of quick lime. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he told them that he needed it for pest control, which

Speaker 1 there's better things to use for pest control than quick lime, by the way, everybody. Quick lime is just dissolved.

Speaker 1 They have poison you can put down. Yeah.
Kills everything.

Speaker 1 You can just use juicy fruit. That's that, whatever you want.
Yeah. So he dragged Bob by the ankles.

Speaker 1 He later would completely clean the blood trail with bleach, by the way. Okay.
Dumped Bob in the hole. Yeah.
Poured in all the quick lime. Filled up the hole.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 then he planted tomatoes.

Speaker 1 Over it. Over it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Put some tomatoes in there. That'll do it.

Speaker 1 He writes on July 16th, 1985, in Alvin's Funtime Journal entry. Again, everybody.
He really

Speaker 1 is most fella. He said, quote, first demon eliminated.
Got one. First one.
Yeah. By the way, not the demon.
Got that demon. No, first one on the list of demons.
Okay.

Speaker 1 First demon eliminated. The force pleased.
Okay. That's good.

Speaker 1 More work to come.

Speaker 1 There's some more down the road. Ready?

Speaker 1 August 1985. Okay.
This is fucking crazy. He's still still at the farmhouse in Springbrook.
Okay. He's eliminated a demon.

Speaker 1 The force is pleased.

Speaker 1 So Bob is buried in the backyard under some tomatoes. He then brings in a tenant into the house.
Oh, he's got a sublet? Oh, he's got a sublet.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's, you know, not making that much doing his gigs here. It's a guy named Marcus Henderson, who's 24 years old, and he is a graduate student at UW Stout studying agriculture.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 He later said, quote, he was a good landlord. Bob was quiet, traveled a lot for his music.
Sometimes I'd hear him talking to himself late at night, but hell, I talk to myself.

Speaker 1 I talk to myself during thesis writing, too.

Speaker 1 He thought he was just like songwriting.

Speaker 1 So you talk to yourself. Yeah, sometimes you got to say it out loud.
Yeah, if you're a con, I've said jokes out loud. Can I say those words together? Do they sound right? I've done that before.

Speaker 1 Usually not for hours at a time, maybe once, but still, we'll let it go.

Speaker 1 This guy lived there for 18 months. Wow.

Speaker 1 Never noticed anything. Year and a half.
Year and a half. He did complain about a weird smell from the backyard at one point.

Speaker 1 And Alvin blamed it on raccoons get under the deck and die. People say that a lot, don't they? That is the Poughkeepsie serial killer, the Kendall Francois guy.
That was, I know my mailman

Speaker 1 did his his mail stuff and knows all those. So, when that all happened, all the mailmen like gossiped about it.
And multiple mailmen had noticed the smell.

Speaker 1 And he told multiple mail guys, these fucking raccoons nest under here, and then they die under my porch, and I can't get to them, and that's why it stinks. Meanwhile, he had so many bodies in there.

Speaker 1 Eight, eight, nine in there. So many bodies in there.
Unbelievable. But that's what Dahmer used to say to his grandma, too.
I found that smell. It's a raccoon under the fucking porch.

Speaker 1 I think it's a little bit more than that. It's just what works, man, especially in Wisconsin.
Seems like these raccoons get in everywhere. People just believe you and they

Speaker 1 just explode everywhere. Oh,

Speaker 1 they get under there, they can't get out.

Speaker 1 They get in, but they can heart out.

Speaker 1 Very lazy once they find a place to lay down. November 1985, Alvin takes a little visit to the hospital.

Speaker 1 Little visit to the ER this time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 The report from the hospital says: quote: patient reports

Speaker 1 radio waves attacking brain. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They gave him sedatives and refused to admit him and sent him away. Oh.

Speaker 1 So he reports radio waves attacking the brain and they went, take a couple of these and

Speaker 1 a nap. That's all.

Speaker 1 That's it. Okay.
Wow. Okay.

Speaker 1 February 1986, he goes to a psychologist at this point, or a psychiatrist, actually. I'm sorry.
A Dr. Martin Kellner.
He goes for three visits visits and then stops showing up. Oh, no.
Not good.

Speaker 1 Now, in Dr. Kellner's notes, he writes this.

Speaker 1 Patient presents with fixed delusions of divine mission. So he was telling the psychiatrist the truth.
Yeah. He wasn't making shit up.

Speaker 1 He said, I hear fucking voices and they're telling me to do shit with fixed delusions of divine mission. Believes he receives commands through electronic devices to, quote, eliminate evil.

Speaker 1 High risk for violence. Recommended immediate hospitalization.
Patient refused. Unable to meet criteria for involuntary commitment.
Meaning he has no set plan.

Speaker 1 If he said, there's a guy I'm going to go kill, then he could have him committed. Or if he said, I'm going to hurt myself, he could have him committed.

Speaker 1 But just having things tell me to do shit, but I have no real set plans, you can't commit somebody with that, unfortunately. Crazy as fuck is what you can say, but then that's all you can do.

Speaker 1 March 3rd, 1986, Alvin's Fun Time Journal entry. Let's do it.

Speaker 1 What do we got? Let us hear it Al. Wow.
He said, quote,

Speaker 1 wow, the force speaks directly now. All right.
It's stopped. That's nice that it stopped going through the electronics.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know, it's figured it out.

Speaker 1 No need for radio or television intermediaries. Those fucking middlemen, that's the problem.
They jack the price up on everything. Yeah, you've heard of the game, telephone.
It fucks fucks things up.

Speaker 1 I am chosen.

Speaker 1 I am the sword of righteousness. Oh,

Speaker 1 the sword

Speaker 1 of righteousness. That's some shit that

Speaker 1 Samuel Jackson said in Paul Fiction, right? That is Ezekiel 25, 17.

Speaker 1 I think that's what that is. The path of the righteous man.

Speaker 1 I think that also is a made-up verse that they're talking about. I don't think it's real.

Speaker 1 Or it might be like an amalgamation of a couple of things.

Speaker 1 I know zero Bible. So

Speaker 1 if it is real, that's the only part of the Bible I know. If it's not real, I just know zero about the Bible.

Speaker 1 Is that one about the

Speaker 1 when

Speaker 1 there's one set of footsteps? Is that in the Bible? I think that's just in grandmother's posters in their bathroom. I think that's only what that is, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've never seen it in any other place, but old ladies' bathrooms on a wall.

Speaker 1 So he is the sword of righteousness. That's nice to know.

Speaker 1 Now, the voice, because the psychiatrist said, describe the voice to me. It's going into your head.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He said it sounded like his voice, but perfected.

Speaker 1 Sounds a lot like my own voice. But

Speaker 1 perfect. But not how it comes out of my face.
Basically, if Frank Sinatra lived in my head, that's what it sounds like.

Speaker 1 That's perfect.

Speaker 1 It It told him about the demon network that was infiltrating Wisconsin. Oh.
They have come to Wisconsin. They want your cheese.
It's happening. The demon network.

Speaker 1 It's in the grocery store in the meant aisle that is

Speaker 1 three fucking aisles.

Speaker 1 Hey, do you get the demon network? No, my cable system doesn't have it yet. Shit.

Speaker 1 I hear the demon network's coming to Wisconsin. Is it? Awesome.

Speaker 1 Holy shit. Ordinary people,

Speaker 1 he thought, were actually vessels for evil. Yeah.
But only he could see that, though. He's like Rowdy Piper, and they live.
He's like Rowdy Roddy Piper with the glasses on. That's really an alien.

Speaker 1 God dang. And not only could he see them, obviously, if you're the only one who can see them, who can stop them?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Just you. I got a question about let's not stop.
How did it start, you fuck?

Speaker 1 Where did this come from?

Speaker 1 Who knows, man? It's been so long. You know what I mean? That's that's the thing.
Where, where

Speaker 1 we don't know when this started. I assume schizophrenia usually starts in like teen years into the early 20s, something like that.
It could be birth

Speaker 1 sometimes. Sometimes it's also trauma that triggers it.
You never know. And he's been hitting the head a lot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's plenty of reasons, but usually it's that 15 to 23 is the range where schizophrenia pops up. Who knows? So,

Speaker 1 May of 1986, let's go go to James Severson,

Speaker 1 S-E-V-E-R-S-O-N, Severson. He's 42 years old.

Speaker 1 Two years later, nobody has a fucking clue where

Speaker 1 everyone thinks Bob left. Bob is gone.
Yeah. Bob disappeared.
And now he's got an ex-wife. She called the cops once.
That's her thing. She forgot about it.
He's got no one really looking for him.

Speaker 1 She's just pissed. He left two years ago.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 she's probably happy. Maybe she's not getting alimony.
I don't know. So, James Severson, this is at the Paradise Apartments in Eau Claire.
Apartment 1A is where James Severson lives.

Speaker 1 He's 42 years old. He's an unemployed machinist at this point who is currently going through his second divorce.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's a couple of cans of Paps at the...

Speaker 1 at this on his bed nightstand at the end of the night, put it that way. And he is.

Speaker 1 He's drinking Jim Beam, and everybody says that he stands on his balcony at odd hours of the night just smoking cigarettes, just smoking and smoking and smoking.

Speaker 1 One neighbor who lived upstairs said Jim was nosy. Jim

Speaker 1 Severon. Jim was nosy, always watching people come and go, made comments about everyone, creepy but harmless, or so we thought.
Oh. Ooh, let's find out if he's harmless.

Speaker 1 So Alvin moves in next door. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, by the way, Paradise Apartments, no relation to the Paradise Inn, which is the place where he attacked Paul Zwick that time. Okay.

Speaker 1 This is a ground floor unit apartment 1B right next door to James Severson.

Speaker 1 So if you're an unemployed guy with a lot of time on your hands and you like to be nosy, this guy is the ideal neighbor to have. Alan move in.
He's got all sorts of shit to be nosy about.

Speaker 1 He's leaving. He's coming and going, doing weird shit, talking to himself.
He's fun.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 he's always out there, though, Severson, smoking and watching everybody. What do you think? How do you think Alvin takes that? He's not going to enjoy that.
Don't fucking watch me.

Speaker 1 He was convinced that Jim Severon was monitoring for, quote, them.

Speaker 1 He's monitoring me. That's what he's here for, even though I moved in next door to him.
He didn't move in next door to me.

Speaker 1 He said Severon was always outside when he came home. That was one reason why.

Speaker 1 Always outside when he came home, which he's just always outside.

Speaker 1 He said he could hear Jim Severon's TV through the wall. That's annoying.
And on the TV, he could hear that the TV was giving Jim Severon reports about Alvin.

Speaker 1 He could hear the reports from the TV about him going through the wall.

Speaker 1 The TV is a direct communication to the person watching it. It's a personal message, really.

Speaker 1 You turn your TV on that says, hi, Jimmy. How you doing?

Speaker 1 Let me give you your updated shit. Your next-door neighbor, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like, that's what happened. Clearly,

Speaker 1 yeah, it's it's great.

Speaker 1 So there's that. And also,

Speaker 1 one time

Speaker 1 while talking outside in casual conversation, Jim Severson asked Alvin Taylor about his travel schedule. Oh.
So you're going out of town this weekend. You got gigs lined up.

Speaker 1 Obvious intelligence gathering, Alvin said.

Speaker 1 Again, not casual conversation, asking someone about what they do for a living and just being trying to look interested. Absolutely evil.

Speaker 1 Then, oh boy, he found a cigarette butt. Oh.
A Marlborough Red, just like Jim Severson smokes, in front of his door, in front of Alvin's door. So Jim's been here.
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 That was, that's a surveillance device. That cigarette butt also can monitor Alvin from outside of his door.
All right. Yeah.
That transmits audio, video back.

Speaker 1 to, I assume, Jim Severson's TV next door so he can see what's going on. Yeah.
Possibly.

Speaker 1 But yeah, this cigarette butt is, that's a surveillance device by the door. Watch out.

Speaker 1 May 14th, 1986, Alvin's Funtime Journal. Here we go.
What's he got to say?

Speaker 1 Severin, and then the equals sign, which he likes to use.

Speaker 1 Severin equals level two

Speaker 1 demon operative. Level two? Level two.
Graduate. He's starting to sound like Laurie Vallo now.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is what Laurie Vallo and Chad Daybell did back and forth of, oh, he's a he's up to level six now. Oh, Jesus, we got to get him like shit.
Literally, crazy shit.

Speaker 1 But there was at least two of these idiots. This is one person talking to himself.

Speaker 1 Isn't that amazing that they he was so desperate to hang on to

Speaker 1 a decent looking woman that he fucking

Speaker 1 got her to go crazy? And she's just, she was nuts to begin with. She's so goddamn crazy.
She read his books and was like, Yeah, me too. Yeah.
Like, that's, she went to him.

Speaker 1 She met him at that fucking fucking thing where he was signing books for like 12 desperate weird people in the middle of nowhere. He was like, I bet I can get butt stuff out of this woman.

Speaker 1 Oh, she'll do anything. She's great.
And especially if I say that it's ordained. Yeah.

Speaker 1 God told me. Yeah.
He said.

Speaker 1 He said, you got to do butt stuff, or else this person's going to be a level five fucking dark soul or whatever it was. A dark person.

Speaker 1 Oh, Jesus. So level two demon operative, constant surveillance, reporting my movements to the network.
Oh.

Speaker 1 The network. Then must act before he acts.

Speaker 1 Jim or them?

Speaker 1 Before Jim acts upon him. Okay.
Because the network isn't he surveilling him. There's something's going on here.
Okay.

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Speaker 1 May 21st, 1986, Alvin pays Jim a visit.

Speaker 1 Alvin had been drinking. Not a lot.
He wasn't sloppy, drunk, or anything, but he was definitely loosey-goosey, feeling all right. Good day.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he knocks on Jim's door. He's got a six-pack of Miller High Life, too.
Like, hey, buddy,

Speaker 1 you got an alcoholic neighbor. You knock on the door with a six-pack.
He's going to answer. So he opens the door and he says, hey, come on in, buddy.
Yes. You got a beer? Come sit down.

Speaker 1 They're sitting there and he's smoking cigarettes and

Speaker 1 eating a fucking banquet TV dinner. One of those chicken ones that are just little fat balls, you know, those.

Speaker 1 Oh, we've eaten those. And they're watching a brewer's game on TV.
Very nice.

Speaker 1 So they sit, they drink, they're watching baseball, just normal neighbor shit. Okay, that's normal neighbor shit.
That's May 21st. May 23rd, two days later.

Speaker 1 Remember Patricia Holmberg lives upstairs, said Jim's nosy, but harmless. She complains something smells weird around here.
Uh-oh. Something smelling weird.

Speaker 1 Not like something suspicious.

Speaker 1 Something weird to smell. It's bad.
Yeah. Yeah, not something smells funny around these parts.
It's actual, you smell that shit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So the next day, May 24th, the landlord uses his master key to enter and finds Jim Severson. Jim Severson.
Finds him in the apartment, not in good shape at all.

Speaker 1 Very dead. Attack.
And the, well, okay.

Speaker 1 The police arrive at apartment 1A and do one of the

Speaker 1 worst investigations of a fucking dead human being that's ever existed.

Speaker 1 They looked at him and just went, single guy fucking drinks and he's divorced and he probably acts crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 Their assessment was suicide or accidental death during self-harm. Okay.
Oh. He was fucking with himself.
A detective.

Speaker 1 One of the detectives said he wasn't sure about that, but that was the determination. He said the wounds didn't match, too many wounds, wrong angles, but the scene was clean.

Speaker 1 There was no evidence of another person, so we didn't have enough to call it murder. So it is ruled death by misadventure, basically.
Is that right?

Speaker 1 He was fucking around, accidentally killed himself, or did it on purpose, but it's all him. They said they found no evidence, no fingerprints, no evidence of another person being in there.

Speaker 1 So how are you going to say another person killed him when they don't even think anybody else was there? Just bizarre gashes. I don't know.
Strange. Now, what happened to Severson?

Speaker 1 Let's find out here.

Speaker 1 Let's go back to May May 21st. And when I tell you

Speaker 1 the actual, what happened to him, imagine going in there and going, yeah, he must have done that to himself, I'm sure. Okay.
Okay. Listen to this shit.

Speaker 1 Back to the 21st. Alvin and Jim are watching TV.

Speaker 1 Then Jim said, so where you been traveling lately, Al? Just real casual. Where have you been traveling to?

Speaker 1 And if you're a guy who sits, you're an unemployed guy who just sits in this tiny shithole apartment all the time, you might want to just hear some stories of other things people are doing. It is fun.

Speaker 1 Where have you been?

Speaker 1 Now, Alvin, rather than asking the question, he gets up, he excuses himself to use the bathroom. He's like, I have to go to the bathroom.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, on the way to the bathroom, he saw a knife on Jim's kitchen counter. Just one of those shitty,

Speaker 1 cheap, wood-handled, serrated blade.

Speaker 1 crappy steak knives that you buy in a in a in one of those sets that comes in like not a not a block like one of those plastic things that has like forks, knives, and whatever in it, one of those.

Speaker 1 He comes back.

Speaker 1 Jim Severson had his back turned. He was lighting a cigarette at the time.

Speaker 1 And Alvin comes up behind him and just plunges the knife into his neck. Oh, my.
Stabs Jim in the neck. He was aiming for the jugular, but missed and just hit.
just stuck it in the muscle of his neck.

Speaker 1 So obviously, Jim Severson screams and spins around and grabs Alvin's fist and they start fighting around. They're wrestling now, which is crazy in this apartment.

Speaker 1 He's got a huge knife wound with blood coming out of him everywhere. Alvin's trying to get the knife out so he can stab him again.
The blade snaps off in his neck. Oh, shit.

Speaker 1 So now he's holding a wooden handle

Speaker 1 and fighting with this guy. Severson's bleeding, choking.

Speaker 1 Tries to crawl toward the door to get out. He's trying to get out of there.
Alvin grabs him from behind and starts choking him.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Interesting. So hell holds on to Jim.
He's choking him. He's just

Speaker 1 choking the life out of him from behind for just hanging on for dear life here.

Speaker 1 So he holds on for a while. Finally, Jim Severson goes limp.

Speaker 1 But he didn't know if, Alvin didn't know if Jim was dead yet. Oh.

Speaker 1 And the way he put it, the force needs you to make sure he's dead. Got to keep going.
Gotta. So he went back to Severson's kitchen.

Speaker 1 This time found a butcher knife, a good sturdy one, something he could really use here out of that wooden block there.

Speaker 1 Comes back and just stabs the shit out of Jim while he's already dead on the floor with a knife blade in him bleeding and choked to death anyway. Stabs him, stabs him, stabs him.

Speaker 1 Blood all over the place.

Speaker 1 Now later on, Alvin will say that was to ensure that the demons were expelled. It was like we found out earlier, if you got to shoot a demon,

Speaker 1 yeah, you got to vent them. That's how it works.
Now,

Speaker 1 okay, there's blood everywhere, all over the place.

Speaker 1 He, Jesus Christ, Alvin strips naked because he's covered in blood. Yeah, so he can't go back outside like that.
All right.

Speaker 1 He strips naked, puts all of his clothes, bloody clothes in a garbage bag, then takes Jim Severson's bathrobe and wears that back to his apartment, which is right next door.

Speaker 1 He then comes back to Jim's apartment with bleach towels and fresh clothes for him to change into.

Speaker 1 He spends three hours cleaning the place.

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 1 Not perfectly, because

Speaker 1 in 1986,

Speaker 1 decent enough to make the cops go, gee, must have done all this to himself. Wow.
Think about what they thought he did to himself.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He stabbed the motherfuck out of himself.

Speaker 1 Broke a knife off in his own neck. His own neck.
Yeah. Choked himself

Speaker 1 and then stabbed himself a bunch with a butcher knife. And that was it.
Too many wounds. One detective said it.
Too many wounds, wrong angles.

Speaker 1 I didn't think it was a suicide, but that's what they classified it as. So he also positioned Jim Severson's body to make it look like a suicide attempt.
He put the knife in his hand. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So he's in his own hand and put a bottle of pills

Speaker 1 scattered around, some pills scattered around him. Like he was taking pills and just looking for any way out.
I would have taken the pills, but I was too busy stabbing. That's it.

Speaker 1 So how the fuck do you get out of here? You're in an apartment doing all this.

Speaker 1 He left through the back and drove to Minneapolis that night and did a three-night engagement at the Marriott Lounge in Minneapolis. Wow.
From there.

Speaker 1 Now, May 22nd, 1986, a couple days later, later, this is the day, what, after the murder, I believe. Alvin's fun-time journal entry.
Here we go, everybody.

Speaker 1 Oh, second demon eliminated.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 The force grows stronger. He's counting them up.
Yep, the force grows stronger. I grow stronger.
The work continues. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Holy balls.

Speaker 1 Okay, now here is one that we're unsure of.

Speaker 1 We don't know about this one, but this is one that they have gone back and forth on wondering whether he should be a suspect in. June of 1986 here, it's a morning, 9 a.m.

Speaker 1 A guy named Sheldon Kleeman, who's 59 years old, was the owner of the Palace Theater in Spooner, Wisconsin. Oh, he was found, it's a movie theater.

Speaker 1 He was found dead lying on the floor near the entrance to one of the two screening rooms of the theater, stabbed to death.

Speaker 1 Now, his son, this kill, what is this Kleeman's son,

Speaker 1 was 22 at the time. His name is Irvin, and he was identified as a prime suspect and remained a principal suspect for years.
But Alvin Taylor was also questioned for this. Oh.

Speaker 1 They questioned him about his possible involvement due to the proximity and timing of the crime within this whole spree. So they'll later question him about this.

Speaker 1 They never filed charges against him for Kleeman's murder, and they don't know,

Speaker 1 they're not positive about the suspicion. That's because there was other suspects.

Speaker 1 The morning of the murder, at least three men had been described by witnesses as having been in or around the palace theater.

Speaker 1 This is according to the police chief. A local businesswoman described a young blonde-haired man about 5'8 ⁇ tall, which is certainly not Alvin.
No. It was an older black man with no hair,

Speaker 1 slender build, coming out of the theater that morning. A composite sketch was drawn.

Speaker 1 They said the witness saw someone coming out of the theater sometime shortly after the homicide, and that's the blonde younger person here.

Speaker 1 They said that the younger person wasn't the son Irwin, who basically they said it wasn't him.

Speaker 1 They said the young person was never identified. We had our suspicions of who it was, and that person was talked to, but we couldn't nail anything down.
That is part of the problem.

Speaker 1 It seemed all the things we checked out came to a dead end, and it didn't lead anywhere.

Speaker 1 Another suspect was described by a city worker as a nicely dressed businessman, white but dark complexed, 35 to 40 years of age, 175 pounds, 6 foot to 6'2, who drove away in a dark four-door vehicle.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 They said for years it was assumed the businessman in question was a local person, but when the witness met the local person that she thought it was, she realized it wasn't the person she saw the night of the murder.

Speaker 1 So it might have been somebody else.

Speaker 1 In 1996, the police chief, who's also an artist, that's what I want,

Speaker 1 made a composite drawing from the witness description, and they still never found anybody.

Speaker 1 Now, according to the police chief, at least one of the three persons seen by witnesses near the scene had been positively identified as an out-of-town truck driver.

Speaker 1 And he said, I asked him, are you positive it's him? And he said, I'm positive.

Speaker 1 The police chief said the third person still lives in the area and has been interviewed by the police at least eight or nine times and denies being near the murder scene on that morning and also refuses to take a polygraph test.

Speaker 1 Oh. They said we've done two interviews in the past couple years.
This, that person just wouldn't talk. He wouldn't tell us certain things, but he wouldn't take a polygraph test either.

Speaker 1 He said it's important to take the polygraph test to eliminate suspects. He said either he was there or he wasn't, and that's all we wanted to know to rule that out.

Speaker 1 The theater, by the way, was closed for a week after the murder so they could collect evidence. When it reopened, the son Irwin took over the business,

Speaker 1 and then they ended up closing the theater and selling it.

Speaker 1 And it reopened in October 24th, 1986, and then it was sold again, and it's currently a movie theater at 238 Walnut Street in Spooner, Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 It's one of those cool, like small-town movie theaters with the marquee outside. The big marquee.
Fuck yeah. Yeah, little like Main Street small town movie theater.
It's cool as shit.

Speaker 1 So that's what's there. 595-seat palace theater.

Speaker 1 So there you go. That was what it used to be.
Now they have a liquor license, too. Oh, great.
So now you can get booze there, which is awesome.

Speaker 1 October 1986. Okay.

Speaker 1 So that we don't know anything about whether Alvin was a part of it or not.

Speaker 1 October 1986, Alvin heads to a motel. He needs a base that's between Eau Claire and Wisconsin somewhere.
So he goes to a motel, the Paradise Inn.

Speaker 1 Okay. Room seven, as a matter of fact.
Remember where we started? Familiar with that joint.

Speaker 1 $180 a month, this costs, this place. A month? A month.

Speaker 1 What is that? That is $6 a day.

Speaker 1 Holy shit.

Speaker 1 $6

Speaker 1 a day

Speaker 1 for long-term stay. Like, if you stay for a month, it's that much.
I'm sure it's more per night. You don't walk up and they go, yeah, six bucks over one night, but $180 a month is crazy cheap.

Speaker 1 That's insane.

Speaker 1 He's got a room facing the parking lot, room seven.

Speaker 1 They said the first week, model tenant. Yeah.
Alvin was quiet, paid in advanced. Advance, even helped,

Speaker 1 even helped a guy fix the broken ice machine. Okay.

Speaker 1 Great guy. Then there's a guy here named Daniel Lundgren.

Speaker 1 He's 33 years old. He is the motel manager.

Speaker 1 That's the guy he helped fix a broken ice machine. Now, Lundgren, this is the same hotel as what happened with Zwick, and we'll get into that.

Speaker 1 Lundgren graduated ESCO High School in Wisconsin here and worked at the Potlatch Corporation, Potlatch Corp.

Speaker 1 He also attended some college before moving to San Francisco, where he worked in a hospital, then served in the Navy for seven years, leaving in 1986 when he moved to West Bend, which is where he is now.

Speaker 1 His mother and father both died in the 70s, and

Speaker 1 he's just trying to figure out his life here, basically. He manages the Paradise Inn Village Motel and the on-site Chinese restaurant as well.

Speaker 1 Oh, yes. Managing that too.

Speaker 1 Imagine what the Chinese food is like at a

Speaker 1 middle of nowhere small-town Wisconsin motel. Yeah.
That can't be good, right? That's got to be interesting.

Speaker 1 It's real authentic. That is interesting.
Yeah, totally. It's this, by the way, is one of those, I guess, described as one of those 1960s hotels that just never got renovated.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 One of those motor lodge side of the road joints that just looks the same as it did in the 60s, just a dump. It's located on Highway 33, and it's kind of, you know, for cheap people.
So

Speaker 1 Lundgren managed the motel and lived in a converted storage room behind the office. Not even a room,

Speaker 1 a converted storage room.

Speaker 1 He's just doing this to save money. He's trying to save money to do things.

Speaker 1 Tom Chen, who owned the attached Chinese restaurant, said Danny was all business, up at 5 a.m.

Speaker 1 checking the pool chemicals, fixing broken AC units himself, dealing with the kind of people who rent motel rooms by the hour. I think we know who they are.

Speaker 1 Tough job, but he never complained. If you can get an Asian guy to say that about you, you work hard.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're a hard worker.

Speaker 1 You're getting out of here. He wants you.
He wants to poach you as an employee. Oh, he does.
He works for him. He manages the Chinese restaurant for Tom Chen.
He loves him. He did poach him.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, week two at the Paradise Village Inn,

Speaker 1 things get a little more sketchy for Alvin. The voices start to come to him through the rooms television set.

Speaker 1 By week three, he became convinced that Danny Lundgren was poisoning him through the air conditioning system.

Speaker 1 He's sending poison into my room. Oh, he's gassing me.
Gas chambering me, yeah.

Speaker 1 October 28th, 1986. Now, keep in mind, this is a month and a half, almost two months before the Paul's Wick incident here.

Speaker 1 Taylor, at this point, Alvin complains that the AC was transmitting frequencies. He complains to people about that.
Anything electrical has a 60 hertz hum. Yeah.
It's got something.

Speaker 1 November 3rd, 1986, he complains again, this time about electrical interference from the restaurant. Oh, fuck.

Speaker 1 Everybody knows you fry an egg roll, it sends shockwaves around the whole building. November 14th, 1986,

Speaker 1 Lundgren came upon Alvin Taylor as he was dismantling a telephone, taking it apart. One of those old school, you know, push buttons, sit on the nightstand,

Speaker 1 taking it apart.

Speaker 1 Yep. Claiming that it was, quote, recording everything.
Oh, shit. Not just phone calls, everything.
Oh, wait till he gets a load of 2025.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. It's recording it.

Speaker 1 I said something about snowsuits yesterday, and now it's trying to sell me snowsuits. What the fuck?

Speaker 1 That's all I can see. November 20th, 1986.

Speaker 1 Lundgren evicts Danny, or Alvin, I'm sorry. Danny Lundgren evicts Alvin Taylor.
Now, Lundgren told his friend, I gave him a week to leave. He felt bad for him, so he didn't say he got to get out now.

Speaker 1 He said, I gave him a week to leave, quote, guy's clearly having some kind of breakdown. Feel bad for him, but I can't have him scaring the other guests.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 he kind of gave him a, you know, give you a week. Maybe that'll make you not so crazy, whatever.

Speaker 1 So that's November 20th. Now,

Speaker 1 November 30th, 1986,

Speaker 1 6.30 a.m.,

Speaker 1 a passing motorist, this is out on the road, not at the motel, sees a car crashed out on the side of the road and calls it in.

Speaker 1 At 7 a.m., EMT's ally arrive and they find Danny Lundgren in his car.

Speaker 1 Breathing, but unconscious, barely breathing. Oh, boy.
In his car, clearly had a horrible accident on the side of the road. 7.30 a.m., he's medevaced to

Speaker 1 Frode Tert Hospital in Milwaukee.

Speaker 1 Over the next 30 hours, he'll be sent to three different hospitals for multiple surgeries, okay,

Speaker 1 to try to fix this man. Examinations, surgeries.

Speaker 1 The injuries are too great from this car accident. And December 1st, the next day at 11.47 a.m.,

Speaker 1 Daniel Lundgren is pronounced dead. Oh.
Cause of death listed as severe head trauma from motor vehicle accident.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 This will

Speaker 1 okay. This is going to unseat that other case of this guy's got knife wounds and everything, must be self-inflicted.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is going to overtake that as the worst investigation in the history of Milwaukee. Okay, great.
This makes sending a 13-year-old or 15-year-old naked Asian boy back to Dahmer's house.

Speaker 1 This makes it look like a reasonable decision. This is so much worse police work than even that, which is horrifying.
Tell me, Mr. This is worse.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 this poor Lundgren, he ends up being dead. December 5th, 1986 is the funeral for Danny Lundgren.

Speaker 1 So they do an investigation just of the traffic accident, and it's a traffic accident. That's all it is.
That's that. So he's gone.
Now, what actually happened to Danny Lundgren? What?

Speaker 1 It wasn't a fucking car accident. I'll tell you that much.
Okay, Alvin's fun-time journal entry. Here we go, everybody.

Speaker 1 Demon number three. Demon number three, November 20th, 1986.
This is dated. Lundgren equals, he loves the equals, Lundgren equals central node of demon network.
Oh, this is the queen. Yeah,

Speaker 1 he's this. the central part.
He's the hive mind. Yeah.
He's Vecna.

Speaker 1 Uh-oh. Yeah.
Yeah. Central node of the demon network.

Speaker 1 Controls the paradise portal, meaning the paradise motel, whatever portal is to there, must be eliminated before the portal opens fully. Oh.

Speaker 1 So he's there opening this portal. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, November 30th, 1986, this is when this all happened, at 5.15 a.m., because remember, that's when he was found in his car, was December 1st in the morning.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, November 30th, they found him. November 30th at 6.30 a.m.
They found him. Sure.

Speaker 1 Now, November 30th, what ended up happening at 5.15 a.m., Danny Lundgren was doing his morning routine, drinking coffee, walking around the property, checking for damage overnight.

Speaker 1 At 5.45 a.m., Alvin Taylor was waiting in the parking lot with his engine running, and he called out, Danny.

Speaker 1 He said, I'm leaving today. Because remember, he was supposed to be gone in a week.
It's been 10 days. Right.
But he said, I'm leaving today, but there's something wrong with my car.

Speaker 1 So I'm having, can you take a look at it so I can get out of here?

Speaker 1 And he said, sure, whatever the fuck gets you out of my parking lot and away from my other guests. Great.

Speaker 1 So he says, sure. He approaches the vehicle.

Speaker 1 Alvin, under, on the passenger seat, under a newspaper, he had a.38 caliber pistol.

Speaker 1 As Lundgren leaned in the car to look at the dashboard, Alvin. shoots him in the temple point blank.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like fucking, just boom, right in the head.

Speaker 1 The second shot shoots him again, was behind the ear as Danny slumped into the window, basically. Shot him again, then shot him in the forehead.

Speaker 1 Three times in the head. For to quote, seal the portal.
Oh, you got to close. That closes.
So that closes sometimes.

Speaker 1 It also closes. That's the thing.
You got to close the portal or open a vent to let the demons out. So it depends on whether you're looking for portals or vents, really, is what you're doing here.
So

Speaker 1 then

Speaker 1 he dropped Lundgren's body into his own car,

Speaker 1 a 1983 Chevy Cavalier, went over to Danny's car, positioned him in the driver's seat, seatbelt on, head tilted like he was sleeping. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 this is fucking crazy. Drove his car out to Highway 60.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Left it there.

Speaker 1 goes back to the motel, picks up Danny Lundgren's car with Danny in it, drives that out to a rural rural road near Jackson, Wisconsin, finds a culvert, positions Lundgren's car at the top of an embankment,

Speaker 1 puts the car in neutral and pushes it down a hill. Wow.

Speaker 1 Watches it crash into the concrete of a culvert. Bang.

Speaker 1 That ought to do it. And that was enough for bullets to go through a man's head.
That's the thing. They did 30 hours of surgeries, medevacing.
Nobody noticed he had three fucking bullets in his head.

Speaker 1 38 calibers. 38s, not 22s bouncing around.
38s, a big gun. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Three of them, not one.

Speaker 1 They just said, well, he's got a lot of wounds. He was in a bad car accident.

Speaker 1 That makes the other police work look good.

Speaker 1 This is awful. This is fucking awful.

Speaker 1 Then he walked two miles to where he had hidden his own car because he had hidden it somewhere else, drove back to the Paradise Inn, packed his bags, and took off by seven. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Then, December 23rd, 1986, he's still at the Paradise Inn because why not? The guy who kicked him out is gone now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can't keep me out of here. And that's where we get Paul Zwick, the new guy,

Speaker 1 maintenance manager, worker, doing all this type of shit. And that's when something's wrong with my heater.
He attacks him with the hammer. Zwick runs away.
Don't know who jumped me. There you go.

Speaker 1 So Zwick was going to be number four.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was going to be number four. God damn.
And then that's when he put in his own, in his little fun time journal, the demon was stronger than expected. Young vessel, military training pending.

Speaker 1 The force says, wait, better targets coming.

Speaker 1 So January 5th, 1987, Paul Zwick, like I said, he goes into basic training.

Speaker 1 Wow,

Speaker 1 that's crazy. Now, Alvin, after the Paul Zwick attack, he says he assumes that this guy told the cops what's going on.

Speaker 1 Alvin assumed

Speaker 1 if he got away, he probably went and told the cops. He just got attacked and stabbed with a screwdriver and hit with a hammer.
Sure. But instead, he never told anybody about it.

Speaker 1 So Alvin would have been fine to stay put, but he didn't. He took off.
He went underground. He jetted.
Because he got scared. Yeah.
He went into hiding. He thought he was going to get caught.

Speaker 1 He stopped performing, stopped traveling, just

Speaker 1 hit out in Menominee. Yeah.
That's it. He gets an apartment at 423 Wilson Avenue in Menominee, apartment 2B.

Speaker 1 It's a two-bedroom, one-bath, and has a little kitchen, but it's a very small apartment, very, very small. But two bedrooms, he needs a roommate, too, because he's not performing very much.

Speaker 1 He doesn't have a lot of money. So he ends up with a roommate named Timothy Hayden.

Speaker 1 He's a 27-year-old kid here, Tim Hayden.

Speaker 1 Tim is born in Covina, California.

Speaker 1 He's got parents named Bernard and Emma. He's got two sisters as well.
Moved to Menominee in 1963 when he was a a little kid.

Speaker 1 They moved from Covina to Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 At this point in time, he is working as a night shift custodian at the University of Wisconsin-Stout.

Speaker 1 He's working these nights to pay for the accounting classes he takes during the day. He's trying to be a CPA.

Speaker 1 So he does math all day, then does maintenance all night, and does custodial work all night.

Speaker 1 Tim is balls off. Tim is a hardworking, studious young man.
Absolutely. Tim is trying to make something of himself.

Speaker 1 And his supervisor said, Tim was a good kid, quiet, reliable, always talking about getting his degree and moving to Minneapolis for a real job. And he was so close to graduating right then.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So they ended up becoming friends, Tim Hayden and Alvin Taylor, while there was apparently

Speaker 1 they were both working at this musical in Auckland.

Speaker 1 It was a production. It was called Peace Child.

Speaker 1 It was a production aimed at improving U.S.-Soviet relations.

Speaker 1 And that's how they knew each other. And then Hayden ends up moving into the apartment in Menominee now.
They met each other in the fall,

Speaker 1 a few months earlier. So, okay.

Speaker 1 They had lived together the previous fall for a couple months before he moved into the motel.

Speaker 1 This is before Alvin moved into the motel. He had lived with Hayden for a couple months, but they had a dispute of somehow of of falling out over a woman.

Speaker 1 We don't know exactly what happened, but there was a woman involved. Sure.
I don't know even what same woman they would both be into, but whatever.

Speaker 1 So they live together peacefully here at this apartment. It's at 408 20th Avenue East, this apartment.

Speaker 1 Nice coexistence.

Speaker 1 It helps a lot because Hayden works at night. And Taylor, Alvin Taylor is kind of up all night and sleeps all day.

Speaker 1 So it works out perfect.

Speaker 1 While he's at work, dude, that's when Alvin's doing his thing. He's seeing each other.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he gets home. He's sleeping, so it's great.
Then in February of 1987, Alvin started hearing voices in this apartment as well

Speaker 1 through the heating vents this time. They really just get in there.
Wow. This is very Ike Ibiabuchi.
Remember him?

Speaker 1 The boxer we did?

Speaker 1 In Arizona, fuck. He was in Arizona.
Demons in the air conditioning. That was in their house.
Was it? It was in their house.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was calling up

Speaker 1 fucking HVAC guys going, can you get the demons out of my system? And they were like, sure, I'll come to them. I'll get in there.
The vents are so small. I don't know how to do it.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, he also said, claim that Tim Hayden was broadcasting his thoughts, meaning Alvin's thoughts. March of 1987.

Speaker 1 He's taking it to another level now, Alvin. Alvin is now convinced that Hayden is not some demon or some node and demon network.
He's convinced that Hayden isn't even Hayden anymore.

Speaker 1 He is an alien replacement, a pod person. Oh, boy.
He's been replaced by an alien who looks just like him. The real Hayden has been abducted and replaced with a duplicate.
That's what happened here.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 March 20th, 1987, Alvin's fun-time journal entry. Let's do it.
Here we go. He says, quote, Hayden makes move on Sandra.
Now we're back to a chick. Remember that? There she is.

Speaker 1 Hayden makes move on Sandra. Alien duplicate using pheromones and mind control.
Oh, he's got some fucking cologne this summer. He's got game is what it is.
Yeah. He's good at this.
Must protect her.

Speaker 1 Must eliminate the duplicate. Oh.
The duplicate. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Sandra Cole is the Sandra that he's talking about, who is a bartender at Stubbs Bar

Speaker 1 where where Alvin has played a few gigs, okay? Yeah. He's

Speaker 1 never dated her, barely knows her, just knows she's the bartender.

Speaker 1 Just knows that's where you go to get the fucking free three drinks that the guy promised me for playing the stupid gig.

Speaker 1 Order your chicken strips through her, is what he said.

Speaker 1 But in his mind, Alvin thought that Sandra was somehow his girlfriend. Oh.
He thought we have a relationship? We have a relationship. Maybe she might not know it yet, but we're hooked up.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 And that Hayden was trying to steal her away from him. Yeah, he's the okay.

Speaker 1 Now, Sandra said, quote, I maybe talked to Alvin Taylor three times total. He was creepy, always staring.
I told the manager to please not book him anymore. Three times, and he has a relationship.

Speaker 1 A relationship of where he needs to protect her and everything else. Oh, my God.
March 25th, 1987. It's Tim Hayden's big night out here.
He works as a custodian from 6 p.m. until 2.30 a.m.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's a terrible shift. Jesus Christ.
6.30 p.m. to 2.30 a.m.?

Speaker 1 That is an awful shift.

Speaker 1 That's like one and a half. That's not even second shift.
That's first and a half shift. That's terrible.
What is that?

Speaker 1 A terrible shift. 2.30 a.m.
I've never heard of that shift before.

Speaker 1 That's not a shift, right? They made that shift up, apparently. Then somebody comes in at 2.30 a.m.
and works till 10.30. What the hell kind of operation operation are they running here?

Speaker 1 So yeah, March 25th into the March 26th, gets off of work at 2.30 a.m.

Speaker 1 There we go. Now, March 28th, this is the next day, three days later, two days later,

Speaker 1 at 10 a.m.

Speaker 1 His friends, he's supposed to show up for

Speaker 1 a lunch engagement the day before, never showed up.

Speaker 1 And no one can get a hold of him. So at 10 a.m., his friends come over and they find him

Speaker 1 in his apartment. And he is not alive at all.

Speaker 1 Tim Hayden. So he's taken to the state crime laboratory where an autopsy is performed.

Speaker 1 And they say he died as a result of complications from combined assaults to the head and three gunshot wounds to the facial and neck areas. Ooh, dang.

Speaker 1 So the police question all of his friends. They question Alvin Taylor because he's his fucking roommate and lives there.

Speaker 1 And they, because they had questioned several of Hayden's acquaintances, and they said, well, he lives with this guy named Alvin Taylor. He knows this guy named Alvin Taylor.

Speaker 1 So they go, we got to talk to him.

Speaker 1 So they learned that Taylor had lived with him for a short time in the past and that they got in some kind of beef over a woman and then kind of reconciled here.

Speaker 1 So they bring Taylor in to question him.

Speaker 1 a little bit, Dale

Speaker 1 Amundsen and Frank Bammert of the

Speaker 1 Monomy Police Department.

Speaker 1 They learned that also, through some research about Alvin, they learned that Alvin had borrowed an automatic.22 caliber revolver

Speaker 1 and a box of shells. Automatic revolver.
Those are a lot of revolution.

Speaker 1 And it's got to be, yeah, it can't be a semi-automatic revolver. That's what it says in the newspaper, though.
I just read that. Automatic revolver.

Speaker 1 I said that. I'm like, that can't be.

Speaker 1 That can't be a thing. And a box of shells from a Wisconsin Dells man on March 17th.
And he had the gun in his possession until returning it to the owner on March 27th, which is the day after

Speaker 1 they think

Speaker 1 Hayden died. So he said,

Speaker 1 Nope, don't need this. Now I'm good.
Okay. So here's what actually happened.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. In February of 87,

Speaker 1 Alvin said he saw a calendar with a girl on it

Speaker 1 who reminded him of a girl, of a Sandra or somebody else. Taylor felt that Hayden might hurt that girl,

Speaker 1 Sandra, or someone else. He's got the poster up to remind him what she looks like.
Yeah. He said the calendar,

Speaker 1 he said that the calendar gave him a sign. Oh.

Speaker 1 He looked at the calendar and it spoke to him. And in his mind, the calendar was telling him to kill Tim in a room with a water bed.

Speaker 1 Very specific, calendar. Very specific.
Find that room today.

Speaker 1 Wow. So Alvin Taylor returned to Menominee, discovered Hayden, and got the gun.

Speaker 1 He said he found out that Hayden had purchased a gun. Yeah.
So he said that's when he said he got out he got there just in the nick of time.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he needed to kill him right now to see if he could save it. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, what actually happened here, it was March 26, 1987 at 5 a.m.

Speaker 1 Hayden had come home from his custodial shift, took a shower, made a cup of coffee, sat in the kitchen studying for his corporate finance midterm or final or some shit, some test.

Speaker 1 Here comes Alvin Taylor, and he said, hey, good morning. And he said, hey, you're up early.
What's going on? And they're talking and, you know, couldn't sleep, whatever.

Speaker 1 At that point, by the way, he also mentions the voices. Hayden knows that Alvin's hearing voices.
They talk about it all the time.

Speaker 1 And he said, I couldn't sleep, got those damn voices again in my head. Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 So he thought

Speaker 1 Hayden is real laid back. He thought, I don't know,

Speaker 1 I'm an accounting guy. I'm not a creative guy.
Maybe musicians are nuts. That's what he thought.
Oh. Maybe it's a musician thing.
Yeah. Who the hell comes up with those songs?

Speaker 1 How do you come up with fucking songs like that? Lyrics. I'm sure that you just hear voices and they tell you about it.
How else would you come up with that shit?

Speaker 1 Or thought maybe he was on drugs, but he said, none of my business, basically. I'm paying cheap rent, getting my finance degree or my CPA, and I'm out of here, basically.

Speaker 1 So Tim told him you should see someone about that. You should, you know, about your voices.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And Taylor,

Speaker 1 Alvin said he then said to him, he pulled the pistol from his bathrobe pocket, a bathrobe pistol. Yeah.
Bathrobe pocket pistol. That's wild.

Speaker 1 And said, I did. And they told me what to do.
Meaning, I did see someone and they told me what to do. And he shoots Tim in the back of the head.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 He slumps forward.

Speaker 1 By the way, he was on chapter 12 risk assessment. So there you go.
He was reading this thing.

Speaker 1 He stood there for 20 minutes.

Speaker 1 Taylor did after he shot him because he expected at that point the alien duplicate would reveal themselves. That was his whole plan.

Speaker 1 He's going to kill him, then he'll wait for the alien to come, and then he can shoot the alien duplicate, right? When it comes out of his body.

Speaker 1 So he sat there waiting for it and waiting for it and waiting for it. It never happened.
Never materialized. So then he said, shit, I just killed a person.
I didn't kill a, I didn't kill a duplicate.

Speaker 1 I fucked up. He has a realization.
Yeah, he said, oh, fuck, shit. Fuck, he's not a duplicate.
I'm fucking up. He's not a duplicate left.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 um, wow, that's, uh, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 So then he ends up, this, by the way, there's something that happens here that I am not sure is true or not because I've seen, I've seen a thing that says it's true, and I've seen other things that I don't think it's true.

Speaker 1 So, okay.

Speaker 1 This is Alvin's Funtime 911 call, we'll call it.

Speaker 1 He called and he said, I just shot my roommate, 423 Wilson Avenue, apartment 2B. He's dead.
I'm the soldier of God. Had to do it.
Not I'm a soldier of God. I am the soldier of God.

Speaker 1 Had to do it and hung up.

Speaker 1 Then apparently at 6:35 a.m.,

Speaker 1 he called,

Speaker 1 he somehow got a hold of Sandra Cole, the bartender. Oh.

Speaker 1 And said, Sandra, I saved you. The alien is dead.
We can be together now.

Speaker 1 Oh, Jesus. Now, at the same time, Sandra's having a roommate call police and all this type of shit.

Speaker 1 So there is one story that claims that he was arrested and then let go on $50,000 bail at this point, which we're not sure if that's true. I'm pretty positive it's not.

Speaker 1 You can't call police, tell them you killed somebody, and then get 50,000.

Speaker 1 Not only that, he doesn't have $50,000 to get bail. So I don't know what they would be talking about.
He had a room though

Speaker 1 in a two-bedroom, tiny, shitty apartment. So this is the real story here.
April 3rd, 1983, and in Portage, Wisconsin. This is at Tim Hayden's funeral.
Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 It's a packed thing. The university, all the people that work there are there, students that knew him, family, everything.

Speaker 1 In the back row, Alvin Taylor. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He showed.

Speaker 1 Now, the cops are watching this, thinking he's going to show because they've been waiting, looking for him. So they think he's going to fucking show up.
And

Speaker 1 Dorothy is,

Speaker 1 I guess, or I'm sorry, Tim's mother is giving the eulogy, talking about her son and all that. Alvin said, stood up and said, Tim was my friend.
The demons made me do it. Tim understands.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. And no one knew what the fuck he was talking about or who he was, but the police end up running over there, grabbing him.

Speaker 1 The family's going, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 Is this the killer? It's crazy.

Speaker 1 A detective said, we knew he'd show up. These types always do.
They feel compelled to see the aftermath.

Speaker 1 So he gets very calculated. Yeah.
So they arrest him right there at the church, take him away, sit him down, and he's got a story to tell. Boy, does he?

Speaker 1 Well, first of all, too, because this is in multiple counties and everything, and they know that he travels a lot, so they don't know where this could end possibly, they bring in the FBI, too.

Speaker 1 They bring in other counties, everything. He's been off his meds for weeks.
He's not doing well here.

Speaker 1 First, he just claimed to be

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ. He said, I'm Jesus.
Well, that one's not a winning argument. Took about an hour and a half just to get him off the fact that he's Jesus reincarnated.
Okay, no good. Hour two,

Speaker 1 he insisted, I didn't kill the people, but the people who are dead were demons in human suits. Okay.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So I don't even know why I'm sitting here. If I did kill them, you should be thanking me, but I didn't, so we shouldn't even be here.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Then he started talking about what actually happened.

Speaker 1 He starts telling cops about murders they don't fucking know are murders. Right, because of the money.

Speaker 1 Tells them about Hayden, tells them about others. Then he says there are more.

Speaker 1 The first demon, Bob Williams, he's in my backyard in Springbrook. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's what they said.

Speaker 1 They weren't even asking about Bob Williams, didn't know shit about Bob Williams, never even thought about him. The cop said, quote, we thought he was bullshitting.
Right. Another delusion.

Speaker 1 Like Henry Lee Lucas, saying he killed 200 people or whatever. We thought he was bullshitting, another delusion, but he knew Williams' full name, description, and exactly when he went missing.

Speaker 1 So that scared us. He tells them exactly where to find Robert Williams as well.
So the next day, they get a search warrant for the property.

Speaker 1 They get cadaver dogs out there, start excavating on April 6th. April 7th, they discover Robert Williams' remains.

Speaker 1 They're like, holy shit, this guy's for real. Yeah.
And Quicklime had preserved him enough for identification as well. Oh, it preserves? It doesn't break.

Speaker 1 I thought it made you break down, but it apparently just helped it. It just stops the smell.
I think it's for smell is what it is, really. I thought it was to help break it down, though.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I thought it was to dissolve them. That's why mob guys use it.

Speaker 1 You put some lime on there. Anyway, he's decently preserved because he's underground.
I guess that helps.

Speaker 1 Anyway, so this is what he tells them about. Starts telling them about that.

Speaker 1 They said they became aware of the, the cops said they became aware of the grave site in Springbrook.

Speaker 1 Now, at first, in the newspaper, they didn't release that we got this crazy guy and he told us all about this.

Speaker 1 They said, quote, hearing reports of murder stories, owners of the property became upset knowing that on their rental property, they had seen a hole slowly filling up over a period of time.

Speaker 1 Then they sent us to check it out,

Speaker 1 which they sent you and you checked it out. It just happened to be two days after you arrested a guy who did the murder.
So that's pretty crazy.

Speaker 1 They said they studied two sites, which could have been construed as graves as well. He had two more holes dug, apparently

Speaker 1 out there. The sheriff said the excavating of all of this was done and they dug for about 20 minutes and uncovered an object that appeared to be a chest cavity covered by some clothing.

Speaker 1 So they called the state crime lab, and the site was guarded by officers and did all of that.

Speaker 1 They said that the case appeared to be a homicide, but it would be strictly speculative to name any any one suspect when we have no cause of death.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, how about the guy who told you he did it and where the body was buried? And what happened? They said the body was encased in a substance that appears to be lime.

Speaker 1 Neighbors say

Speaker 1 there that

Speaker 1 Alvin had lived there a couple years ago on the property where the body was discovered.

Speaker 1 So anyway, they said they now have received calls from people who have expressed suspicion

Speaker 1 about other possible graves on both sides of the river and all around the county. Anywhere that anyone sees disturbed earth now, they think, well, that must be a grave site.
Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you see a tomato plant growing, watch out. It's a body.
Yeah. They said, we'll check out those sites when time allows, basically.

Speaker 1 Now, back to the interrogation. Severson, Jim Severson.

Speaker 1 He says, quote, the neighbor in Eu Claire, Severson, May of last year, check my old apartment building.

Speaker 1 So they're like, who? What the fuck? The homicide detectives are like, I don't understand. I never even heard of this guy.
What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 So they go in and pull his death report and it says misadventure.

Speaker 1 So they go, okay, and they reinvestigate it and look at it. Blood patterns don't match a supposed suicide scenario.
It was just lazy. Just completely lazy.

Speaker 1 They didn't feel like dealing with it kind of thing. Like, I don't know.
I'm hungover today. Fuck it.
Misadventure.

Speaker 1 So they said also Alvin Taylor provided details only the killer would know about a broken knife still being stuck in his neck. Nobody would know that.

Speaker 1 Where he'd hidden the blade fragment, which was, by the way, behind the refrigerator. Sure.
Still there. They didn't find it at first.
Now they found it.

Speaker 1 And also that bathrobe I brought back to my apartment. That's his bathrobe.
So you can check that, too. Shot it, yeah.
Yep.

Speaker 1 He said that

Speaker 1 Alvin told the cops that he felt bad because Jim Severson suffered when he killed him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He said Taylor said he initially stabbed Severson in the neck and the knife broke, and then he choked him. And he said that Severin kept asking him while he was choking him, why are you doing this?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Why, why, why? He said, that made him feel terrible.
Because he was like, the guy didn't even know it was going on.

Speaker 1 Then he admits to Tim Hayden as well. He says, all right, fine.
He says, I emptied a handgun into him and I beat him with a rifle butt.

Speaker 1 He said, I also stole the handgun he just bought so I could sell it,

Speaker 1 which doesn't seem very crazy.

Speaker 1 After, they said, well, what'd you do when you killed him after Hayden was dead? And he said, I went to a job interview at JCPenney or Sears. I can't remember which.

Speaker 1 Really? Just a mall job?

Speaker 1 Want to hear the crazy part? Yes. He got the fucking job.
No way. He fucking really performs after he murders.
I'm telling you.

Speaker 1 He came over with fucking blood on his shoes, and they were like, no problem.

Speaker 1 Come on in. Can you start Monday? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow, that's amazing. They also found out that he planned to kill more.

Speaker 1 Alvin said

Speaker 1 that he threatened to kill a portage man and had the tools in his truck so he could dig a grave for him as well. So he was planning on it.
He also told police that,

Speaker 1 whoa, he had a half dozen more people that he had planned to kill, and he had a pickaxe in his car when he was arrested. He goes, that's what I was going to start my holes with with that.

Speaker 1 But I had a list of demons that I was going to wipe out here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So they search his portage apartment and they try to get additional evidence here, and

Speaker 1 they find some shit there. They find

Speaker 1 they find, they search the property, also a property nearby where he had reportedly had target practiced with what's believed to be the murder weapon. A.38?

Speaker 1 A.22 on

Speaker 1 one of these. He said, we hope to find shell casings and spent rounds to link Taylor with the.22 caliber pistol he reportedly had in his possession at the time of Hayden's death.

Speaker 1 They also have discovered what appears to be a partially dug grave that Alvin had dug in the portage area, and they said that it looks like he abandoned the project at that time because the ground was frozen.

Speaker 1 But he was trying to dig a hole, another one. This guy's

Speaker 1 nuts.

Speaker 1 So a ballistics expert with the State Crime Laboratory examined the spent cartridges found in Hayden's body and positively concluded that all the cartridges had been fired from the same.22-caliber revolver that Taylor had borrowed in Wisconsin-Dells from his friend.

Speaker 1 The police chief also said they also recovered a 32-caliber revolver already taken by Taylor from Hayden's house and sold to a different Wisconsin-Dells man. Oh.
They found that gun.

Speaker 1 That was the one he stole from Hayden. So I think he took this gun back to the guy he borrowed it from and said, Here's your gun back, and would you like to buy another one? Yeah.
Essentially.

Speaker 1 So that was the revolver that was missing from hayden's house so they at this point they go holy shit

Speaker 1 we know of three people he just murdered

Speaker 1 because danny lunggren's still car accident remember right so they go we know of three people that he just murdered this is

Speaker 1 how many he goes all around where the he could have killed 30 people we have no idea we got to start this is just in our area we got to start checking around so they entered him into the fbi's violent criminal apprehension program, which allows law enforcement agencies to communicate with one another about similar unsolved violent crimes at the time.

Speaker 1 They said during our investigation, it's been learned that Mr. Taylor has traveled extensively as a result of his occupation as an entertainer.
You know, obviously.

Speaker 1 They said information developed by our investigators from a variety of sources suggests that Taylor may be responsible for additional deaths.

Speaker 1 For those reasons, we've decided to utilize the VICAP to alert other departments

Speaker 1 with pending investigations. So, that way, if anybody else has got a mysterious death that fits this at all, that'll pop up.

Speaker 1 So, they said, when our department is contacted, we'll be able to provide certain pieces of information, such as fingerprints, blood type, etc., that may link Mr. Taylor to other homicides.

Speaker 1 Without this valuable program, coordinated by the FBI, local law enforcement organizations would have a great difficulty solving multiple cases with a common perpetrator.

Speaker 1 So, Alvin, after that, then he denies killing Tim Hayden, even though he gave all the details. They all match up.

Speaker 1 He's going to be this guy. Yeah, he said that

Speaker 1 he said, no, no, no, I didn't do it.

Speaker 1 And he started telling people that the police, the district attorney, and the person running the polygraph machine, because they didn't believe him about that, he's killed this many people.

Speaker 1 They had to hook him up to a polygraph to make him believe it. He said they're all in on it, quote unquote.
No.

Speaker 1 That's what he said.

Speaker 1 Awesome job. Yep.
He said also the personnel at the Dunn County jail are trying to poison him. He told the psychiatrist as well.

Speaker 1 And I'm being poisoned. Now, the media goes nuts with this shit, obviously.
The local media goes bonkers. Fucking nightclub singer arrested at victim's funeral at the Milwaukee Journal setting.

Speaker 1 Well, that's a big, goddamn deal.

Speaker 1 Big deal.

Speaker 1 Paul Zwick, also, there's another article we'll talk about that people are real pissed off about.

Speaker 1 It's at this point that Paul Zwick finally comes forward.

Speaker 1 Remember, he just took off and went in the Navy.

Speaker 1 He was stationed in San Diego and saw news coverage of the arrest and said, ah, shit, I better say something. I could have killed him.
That saved lives. That guy killed a bunch of people.

Speaker 1 He told the investigators, I knew I should have said something, but I just wanted to forget it happened.

Speaker 1 How?

Speaker 1 So that was it.

Speaker 1 He located and corroborated the confession, providing key testimony that supported an attempted murder charge against him.

Speaker 1 April 22nd, 1987, he is charged with first-degree murder in Dunn and Eau Claire counties, waived his right to preliminary hearing in Eau Claire County, and faces first-degree murder charges in the death of James Severon as well.

Speaker 1 Now, he pleads not guilty in Dunn County, not guilty by reason of mental defect or disease, though, in the first-degree murder of Robert Williams of Eau Claire.

Speaker 1 He's also charged with Timothy Hayden's death and James Severson. Okay.

Speaker 1 Here comes Alvin's fun-time court hearing. Here we go.
Here we go. This is a motions hearing.

Speaker 1 Taylor abruptly decided that, this is wild, out of nowhere in the middle of the hearing, he said, I'm representing myself now. All right.

Speaker 1 And it was based on something very pointed. The reason was he's representing himself because of the colors.

Speaker 1 on the public defender's suit and tie, he told the judge. He said, the colors on my lawyer's suit and tie tell me that I should defend myself.

Speaker 1 They've communicated it. They communicated in some sort of Simon form.
Oh boy. Just flashing red and blue lights.
And

Speaker 1 he also believed that, he said this in court, that the force

Speaker 1 became unhappy with the attempted discharge of his lawyer because the jailers did not ask him if he wanted to use the jail's recreation room. So then he allowed the lawyer to stay on.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Jailers didn't ask him if he wanted to go to rec that day. That meant that the force was mad at him for dismissing his lawyer.

Speaker 1 So then he asked for his lawyer back because he doesn't want to piss the force off. Wow.
Okay. May 6th, he's charged with more murders here.

Speaker 1 All sorts of murders.

Speaker 1 Different counties, everything else. Now,

Speaker 1 is he sane? Is he? That's fine. It doesn't seem like it.

Speaker 1 The sanity phase of this all began. This is before you go to trial.
You have a big sanity phase just to see if you can go to trial. It gets postponed by the judge.

Speaker 1 The judge ordered the delay after a defense attorney questioned the defendant's mental competency to proceed.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, there he goes.

Speaker 1 Oof, he pleaded guilty by, or not guilty by mental defect here.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the public defender here, wow, if you're the public defender here, I mean, being a public defender sucks.

Speaker 1 You got like a whole pile of shit and no time and no money, but In this case, holy shit, what do you do?

Speaker 1 He said that Alvin's current competency came into question after he told people that the force was advising him to retain or discharge an attorney.

Speaker 1 And he said the force represents itself to Alvin in the form of interpretations of events or the gestures and communications of others. Anything.

Speaker 1 You order a grilled cheese, that is a sign from the force. Oh, boy.
You get it with potato chips instead of french fries, a different sign from the force. That's the fun part of

Speaker 1 mental deficiencies and

Speaker 1 fun problems is that

Speaker 1 you can really make a choose your own adventure

Speaker 1 everything that happens all day. Totally.
I mean, besides the murder. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, we do that. We do that.
We make a choose your own adventure every day. We just happen to use logic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Besides the murder, though, this is like a fun, old-timey mental illness. This is like a sitcom walking around in a bathrobe and a Napoleon hat.
Yeah. Talking about, I'm doing this and that.

Speaker 1 Sure you are, buddy. Yeah.
You know, I'm the king of Prussia.

Speaker 1 I'm the king of Prussia. Oh, okay, great.

Speaker 1 The fuck are you talking about? So,

Speaker 1 May 1987, competency hearing. Okay.

Speaker 1 Dr. Philip Erdman, a psychiatrist for the defense.
Man, that's a.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's a hell of a job.
He said, Mr.

Speaker 1 Taylor suffers from severe paranoid schizophrenia with command hallucinations, meaning he's not just being, not just hallucinating, they're telling him to do shit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which is way different than just hearing shit or seeing shit. He genuinely believes he was instructed by God to kill demons.

Speaker 1 He cannot assist in his own defense because he doesn't believe he committed crimes. He believes he saved humanity.
All done.

Speaker 1 Finished. Now, a psychiatrist for the state said, while Mr.
Taylor is mentally ill, he understands the charges against him.

Speaker 1 He knows killing is wrong in the eyes of the law, even if he believes it was divinely justified. Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is a real hair splitter on legalities.

Speaker 1 So there's three different psychiatrists, three evaluations, same conclusion. Insane, but could possibly stand trial if you medicated him enough.

Speaker 1 If you dope him up enough, he might not fuck up the courtroom. The problem is he refused to take his medication consistently.
He said that it, quote, blocked the divine frequencies.

Speaker 1 Oh. Because he couldn't hear the voices anymore because it worked

Speaker 1 and made him, as he put it, spiritually deaf. You can't hear the voices, man.

Speaker 1 So you can't force medication unless there's a trial, is the thing. If someone's at trial, you can force medication on them so they can participate, but you can't otherwise.

Speaker 1 You can't have a trial without the medication, and you can't have medication without the trial. So we're going to catch 22 here.
This is rough.

Speaker 1 So June 16th, 1987, Alvin asked to talk to the detectives.

Speaker 1 And when they come in, he just starts blurting shit out.

Speaker 1 This is when he says, I got to tell you about something you don't even know about. Oh.

Speaker 1 Danny Lundgren.

Speaker 1 And they said, who? Who the fuck is that? Yeah. And they said, Danny at the paradise, three bullets in his head.
You buried him thinking it was a car accident. So they were like, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 They're pulling files out everywhere. And they were like, no.

Speaker 1 No, they looked at his file and they were like, no fucking way he killed this guy. This is bullshit.
He must have read it in the paper or something that he died. He said, though, no, I did it.

Speaker 1 Quote, I felt a force make me do it. I'm a soldier of God.

Speaker 1 That's what it is.

Speaker 1 So they were like, what the fuck? He said, yeah, no, Lundgren,

Speaker 1 you know, he said, I left him for dead in his car. I shot him three times.
He wanted me to move out. I didn't want to move out.
Shot him, stuffed him in his car, rolled him down a hill.

Speaker 1 You guys bought it. Fucking dummies.

Speaker 1 So they exhume him from his grave,

Speaker 1 which is in Lakeside Cemetery in Minnesota. So it took a minute because they had to get another state involved and everything else.
So they pull him out of the goddamn ground and they're doing it.

Speaker 1 And the district attorney said, We're potentially talking about a murder here. Whether we have a murder or not, I think, is speculation.

Speaker 1 We must also have to look at the possibility that he may be confessing to crimes that he never committed. It's only Mr.
Taylor's statement that even opened up this case. So we think he's crazy.

Speaker 1 Then they examine and they find that there's metal fragments in his fucking head. What? They said, oh, shit.
That's the first thing is to x-ray him. And they find metal fragments.
They go, oh, fuck.

Speaker 1 Oh, look at this. They said that may be a bullet or it may be from dental fillings.
Real big fillings he's got. Huge.
38 caliber fillings. No problem.
His fillings just go everywhere.

Speaker 1 So they said, how the fuck could a bullet hole, no less three bullet holes, go unnoticed?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Jesus, one of the guys that works in the the medical examiner's office said, when there's that much damage to the vehicle and to the individual, there's no reason to suspect foul play. Right.

Speaker 1 So just kill your, whoever and push their car down a hill and you win. Are you joking? Yeah.

Speaker 1 You have to look for bullet holes at least. A fucking autopsy.
They go over every inch of your body.

Speaker 1 They document like if you have a pimple, they put that in there. on your autopsy.
That's crazy. The examination reveals three.38 caliber bullets in his skull.
Fuck.

Speaker 1 They said that the neurosurgeon at Froedert Memorial Lutheran Hospital in

Speaker 1 Wawatosa pronounced him dead on November 30th, 38 hours after the car accident of cardiopulmonary arrest was cited as the cause of death.

Speaker 1 That's just heart-stopped, right? Yeah, because too much damage.

Speaker 1 They said this is a very unusual circumstance in the coroner's office, and the coroner's office was never notified of the metal fragments in his head.

Speaker 1 You've got three hospitals, a flight for life helicopter, a rescue squad, and a coroner involved. Nobody saw 338 calories.
Nobody

Speaker 1 saw holes in his head. Big ones.
Wow. They now speculate that he was probably shot in his car, left for dead, and revived enough to drive a short distance before his vehicle left the road.

Speaker 1 No, he wasn't revived enough. He got driven there, put in the seat, and fucking pushed, you idiots.
But they aren't sure why medical personnel didn't notice the bullet wounds.

Speaker 1 One of the guys said it wouldn't have mattered anyway. The massive hemorrhaging was too much.
They went through 27 units of whole blood.

Speaker 1 He would have died anyway, even with specific treatment for the bullet wounds. But it might have helped to try to treat the bullet wounds.
I mean, they were 338s in the head.

Speaker 1 He's dead either way, but you're not treating bullet wounds. You're like, why? I don't get it.
We're pumping his heart. Blood's shooting out of three different spots in his head.
Why is that?

Speaker 1 Fuck.

Speaker 1 He goes on to say, but it's very strange that they didn't catch this. They all took it for granted that it was an auto accident.
Somebody missed their diagnostic duties there.

Speaker 1 This guy said he asked the prosecutor said he asked Dr. Lawrence Tuber at the time if there was anything unusual about the death.
And Tuber had notified authorities on November 30th that he died.

Speaker 1 And he was the official signer on the certificate. He's the senior resident physician assigned to the case.
And another guy signed off on it too.

Speaker 1 And this guy said he, meaning the head medical guy, said no, that he was sure about the, he was sure about the cause of death.

Speaker 1 He didn't mention the metal fragments and said nothing of where the body was coming from. I said, all right, and it was listed as an auto accident.

Speaker 1 I'm not a doctor, and I have to take the experts' word for it. Had he mentioned anything about the metal fragments, I would have called for an autopsy.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. Now, after viewing the autopsy results, they changed the death certificate to homicide.

Speaker 1 And the detective here says, I'm still trying to figure out how everyone who treated this man missed the bullet holes.

Speaker 1 He said they were the size of a lead pencil from a.38 caliber and nobody found them. It probably wouldn't have helped him, but we would have known it was a murder.

Speaker 1 Anyway, we wouldn't have fucking buried him. Car accident.
They said

Speaker 1 the director of public relations for the Froedert Hospital there said, if a guy comes in with cuts and abrasions and listed as a motor vehicle accident, they aren't going to be looking for bullets.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Right.
But you could find them by accident. Hey, what's that? Would be a good thing to ask.
He was looking over the body. Wouldn't you see it? He said

Speaker 1 he was pretty mashed up. Mashed up? Is that a medical term? Yeah.
He was pretty mashed up. There were a lot of places blood could have been coming from.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And they said the Washington County Sheriff called last week and talked with the doctors. Apparently, he's satisfied with their explanation.
I'm not. Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 A friend of Danny Lundgren, who last saw him a few months before he was killed, said, I can't believe this has all happened. How in the world could they have missed three bullet holes? Right.

Speaker 1 That's a fact. The medical examiner who performed the original autopsy, Dr.
Richard Holbrook, old dick over here, said, I've asked myself a thousand times how I missed it.

Speaker 1 The trauma from the crash was so severe, but still, three bullet holes? How did I miss three bullet holes?

Speaker 1 Good fucking question.

Speaker 1 Maybe time for thicker glasses, dear. That's my cousin Vinny this shit.
I guess so.

Speaker 1 So this is all going on in different counties. Washington County, Eau Claire County, and Dunn County are all involved in this.
So that's a mess right there, obviously.

Speaker 1 August 5th, 1987, a tape recording of the interrogation that he

Speaker 1 showed,

Speaker 1 Alvin Taylor told the investigators, quote, I guess I would like it to rest when they asked him about the homicide. The judge rules that this is the defendant,

Speaker 1 as Alvin added, I guess I don't want to get into the details of Jim Severson's death.

Speaker 1 The judge rules that these statements did not necessarily mean he wanted to remain silent, but added that the statements were ambiguous and investigators had a legal obligation to stop questioning and have Taylor clarify his intent.

Speaker 1 Please. Quote, it appeared to me that there was a reluctance on the part of Taylor to discuss the Severn murder.

Speaker 1 So this, they throw out the confession.

Speaker 1 So that's a problem.

Speaker 1 Why will they do that? There's a lot of evidence because he didn't, he said, I don't know about this, and they didn't clarify his statement,

Speaker 1 which is his job to clarify the statement. They don't have to clarify.
Lawyer is the word you're looking for. Attorney.
Anything outside of that is not my problem. He gives a shit.

Speaker 1 Alvin Taylor said in court, the pressure was definitely there.

Speaker 1 They kept coming at me

Speaker 1 and through the telephone and shit, too. They kept coming at me through that, through an intercom system, the vents.
It's crazy. The light bulbs, it's a lot.

Speaker 1 Now, Alvin had initiated the meeting on June 16th, the judge said.

Speaker 1 And before the officers finished giving him his Miranda rights, he blurted out a confession that he killed Danny Lundgren, but they didn't get the Miranda rights out.

Speaker 1 He said, there's no question that the defendant's statement was voluntary. Would Alvin Taylor think after June 12th that he would have immunity for anything that he said?

Speaker 1 How long does any kind of agreement last? Because the first, they gave him some like queen for a day immunity thing to talk about other shit. They said,

Speaker 1 I don't think the state pointed out at any time until that June 12th argument was agreement was over.

Speaker 1 So anyway,

Speaker 1 he ends up confessing to everything that

Speaker 1 they don't let him go on. So

Speaker 1 the judge ruled the prosecutors may not present a statement that he gave to the Menominee police in connection with the James Severson attack. All the other ones, fine, but not that one.

Speaker 1 Now, where will the trial be held? They're also arguing about that.

Speaker 1 There's a discussion of where it is. They're checking into costs to house jurors and witnesses and attorneys at various locations, possibly in southern Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 The prosecutor said the place for, I think the defense attorney said the place for this trial is in Dunn County. It's cheaper than anywhere else.
Okay, we're going on cost.

Speaker 1 October 87, he pleads not guilty by mental defect again

Speaker 1 here. He's got an attorney, a public defender, and

Speaker 1 yeah, so he's not going to plead not guilty to all charges. He's obviously fucking insane.
No one denies that. Every psychiatric evaluation says it's insane.

Speaker 1 Fighting this plea was also not guilty by reason of mental defect is a huge long process that you're going to have to, he's going to to be in hospitals and you're going to have to talk to him a bunch of times and you can find out he's sane now.

Speaker 1 But then if he goes nuts, then it's another delay, you never know.

Speaker 1 So they don't know what to do here. Finally, November 1987,

Speaker 1 they are sending him to Mendota, the mental health facility that Ed Gein lived in forever, and they're sending him there to find out what's going on.

Speaker 1 So a cop said, the last day I talked to Alvin, he was leaving to go to Mendota. As he shook, as Alvin shook the cop's hand, he said, Dale, it came to me in a dream, I will get out of Mendota someday.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 when I do, I have to come and kill you. I'm coming to get you.
I'm coming to kill you. He said he felt bad about that because he said, honestly, I like you and I feel bad about it, but

Speaker 1 he said, nothing I can do about it. I've been told already.
The order's in. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 His intake evaluation, they say, quote, patient presents as calm but actively psychotic. Fun.
Sounds like a good time.

Speaker 1 He looks fine, but between the ears, it's all going.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's all he's got a little party going on in there.

Speaker 1 Continues to maintain he was acting on divine instruction, shows no remorse as he believes he saved humanity from demonic invasion.

Speaker 1 Duh. Requires constant supervision and forced medication

Speaker 1 to comply. So

Speaker 1 he is a fucking train wreck in this jungle, right?

Speaker 1 March 1988, there's a big article in Startling Detective magazine. I didn't know existed.

Speaker 1 The cops, the lawyers, everybody's pissed off about this because they printed details that A, aren't public knowledge, and B, a lot of which aren't even true. Okay.

Speaker 1 They got a lot of information here. The magazine published a seven-page story about this under the headline,

Speaker 1 did the piano man play a deadly medley? And then the title of the article is Murder in B-Flat. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 The issue featured a cover photograph of a woman in a pink negligee pointing a gun at the head of an appropriately distraught-looking man. What does that have to do with any of this shit?

Speaker 1 He was distraught. He wasn't wearing a pink nighty, I don't think.
But he was distraught. So

Speaker 1 they said that they were not sure whether police reports were given to the

Speaker 1 two authors of this article, but she wondered how they obtained information that she didn't recognize from court documents.

Speaker 1 The prosecutor also said that her office has a policy against providing police records to news reporters.

Speaker 1 The documents generally are available to reporters through the police department, but not until the court cases are resolved and the defendants' appeal opportunity is exhausted.

Speaker 1 Now we have FOIA requests. It's different.
So they said Taylor has yet to go to trial on any of the four homicides.

Speaker 1 The magazine article attributes much of its information to authorities in Dunn County, where he is charged for a couple of murders there.

Speaker 1 They go back and forth trying to find out who did it. The prosecutors question the Menominee Police Department because they had sat down with these guys too.
It's a fucking mess. 1988.

Speaker 1 Okay, here we go.

Speaker 1 He is going to plea in a multi-county arrangement. Okay.

Speaker 1 Rather than go from county to county figuring this out, all the counties got together, let him plea to this shit here. So,

Speaker 1 yeah, it's interesting. They're doing this.
They're letting him plea. Now, several people people speak about him in court.
Most people say that you would like him when you meet him.

Speaker 1 He's courteous and has good social skills.

Speaker 1 A guy named Dr. Grist, who's a professor of psychology at UW-Madison, interviewed Taylor numerous times and said, Alvin is a very pleasant, very polite, considerate person.

Speaker 1 He's a very nice person who has a mental disease which drives him to be a murderous person.

Speaker 1 Similar thoughts offered by Dr. Paul Callier, who practices psychology in Eau Claire and who also interviewed Taylor.
He said, Alvin is very friendly.

Speaker 1 He's a likable person, but he's deeply mentally ill and requires extensive hospitalization.

Speaker 1 They said that Alvin Taylor tends to give personal significance and importance to events

Speaker 1 to which the average person would call normal parts of reality,

Speaker 1 like what tie your lawyer is wearing, things of that nature. But him, random observations, flashes from radios or television,

Speaker 1 hearing a conversation on the street, pictures on walls all have secret meanings.

Speaker 1 He said these messages begin to build up inside of him. And he said that before killing, Taylor would wrestle with what's been described as the force.

Speaker 1 Not responding to the messages caused the pressure to build up inside of him, and then he had to respond to them.

Speaker 1 After killing and not getting caught at all, he eventually began believing he was working for the police. Unbelievable.
He's working for God and the cops. And the cops.

Speaker 1 Who can bust me? You know what I mean? How can it go wrong? Divine law.

Speaker 1 He was getting rid of people who might be dangerous to society. So when the killing began, Alvin was getting into reality.
He was finally finding his role and his mission, is what they said.

Speaker 1 He said, Taylor discovered Tim Hayden to be a quiet man involved in the church and Bible study.

Speaker 1 Taylor was on hard times, so Hayden, you know, whatever, didn't mind him being there. This is the first time they moved in when they got in a fight over a girl and

Speaker 1 kicked, and Taylor got kicked out. Taylor went to portage, killed a couple of people, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
We all know how that story goes.

Speaker 1 They also say that in August of 88, Taylor is still talking of plots and people trying to kill him. The messages are still there.
The force is still there.

Speaker 1 And all the times, Taylor still wanted to, quote, blow people away.

Speaker 1 They said Taylor has recently been, quote, beaming in on a man who resides in his wing at Mendota. He said he quoted quoted Alvin Taylor as saying he knew he had to kill him, meaning that man.

Speaker 1 Wow. Okay.
Yeah, he's going to kill people. They said all of the killings had a common factor.

Speaker 1 There was no money involved, no ill will, no revenge, no factors other than mental disease is what they all say. Sure.

Speaker 1 He said even like attacking Zwick is, he's over six feet tall and well muscled. It wasn't even a smart attack.
He didn't even have a gun. It was stupid.

Speaker 1 He said that

Speaker 1 the judge asked the psychologist here, psychiatrist, is the force still giving him directions?

Speaker 1 And the guy responded, yes, including this morning. He said he's still getting messages that he still has to

Speaker 1 go with this thing called the force.

Speaker 1 So they end up sentencing him to, you, sir,

Speaker 1 may fuck off.

Speaker 1 20 years in prison for attempted murder. That's the deal.
He's not even a murderer. He's an attempted murderer.
What? Attempted murder.

Speaker 1 This is a consolidated charge with the Severson and the Lundgren murder charges and all this type of shit. It's consolidated.
Everything's consolidated into one attempted murder charge.

Speaker 1 Now, by not challenging the pleas, the prosecution then allowed Taylor to be committed to a mental institution.

Speaker 1 When sentence calls for both prison time and commitment to a mental institution, he's placed in the mental institution and time spent there is subtracted from the sentence. Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 So they said that they accept the plea for all four murders, guilty plea for attempted murder of Paul Zwick, and that covers all four murders. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 What this does also is 20 years in prison, but then if he's still crazy, he can still be kept in a mental facility until ready to leave.

Speaker 1 As part of the plea agreement, the district attorney agreed the judge would rule on the mental condition in the Severnson case rather than Severson case, rather than holding a jury trial that had been planned because try to get this guy through a fucking jury trial.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You don't think he's going to receive any messages about any of those 12 people?

Speaker 1 The judge also said to him, quote, if I had to guess what the outcome of that case might be, it would be that you would have been successful in your defense.

Speaker 1 We were going to find you crazy. Sorry.

Speaker 1 They said, should Taylor leave Mendota anytime before the 20 years, he'd be required to serve whatever's left in prison. Now,

Speaker 1 let's see here. Now, Alvin's record in Mendota.
1988, he attacked an orderly who he claimed was transmitting something. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Too fam from him.

Speaker 1 1989, attempted to strangle a patient during group therapy.

Speaker 1 Which, I mean, who wants to hear about someone else's problems? I get it. It's my turn.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I want to go now. 1991, found he was caught collecting metal fragments.
When asked why he's doing this, he said he was, quote, building a demon detector

Speaker 1 from metal fragments. All right.

Speaker 1 Okay. 1993 goes on a hunger strike that lasts 23 days, claiming his food was poisoned with, and I quote, alien spores.

Speaker 1 Don't know what that means. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So he's forcibly medicated through a court order, Haldol injections, thorazine, later on, Risperdol and Zyprexa.

Speaker 1 1995 to 2005 on all this medication. Voices chill out.
They're cool. 10 years, he's fine.
They quiet down. In a therapy session in 2001, he said, I know I killed those men.

Speaker 1 I remember doing it, but it feels like watching someone else's memories, like a movie I saw him once.

Speaker 1 He also painted, he got into art therapy. They have an art therapy.
They said he painted. technically very nice portraits that were really disturbing and weird, but good artwork.
Well done.

Speaker 1 He did music therapy. They let him play the piano in the rec room supervised, which nobody minded because he was good at it.

Speaker 1 A treating psychiatrist said, when properly medicated, Alvin shows remarkable insight into his illness, expresses appropriate remorse, but the moment he's off his meds, he reverts completely.

Speaker 1 The infrastructure of his delusions remains intact, just suppressed. He's fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 2005, it comes out after that. Now he can seek release every six months since it's been 20 years.
Every six months he can apply again to do release twice a year.

Speaker 1 He's actually got a doctor in 2005 that says Alvin Taylor is presently not a danger to the community based upon his longstanding treatment and will not become a danger to the community under conditional release.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right. The victim's family said, fuck that shit.
No. One even said, I don't believe they found all the bodies.
His hiding place was mental institutions. He's using the system.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So that's what they say.

Speaker 1 Motion for release is very, very, you know, fraught here.

Speaker 1 One kid's mom said, my son was three, Tim Hayden's mom said, my son was three credits from graduating, three credits. He was going to be an accountant, have a family.

Speaker 1 Instead, he's been in the ground for 18 years because this man thought he was an alien. I don't care how many pills he takes.
He shouldn't see daylight. Right.

Speaker 1 Yep. Another person said, Bob, about Bob Williams, Bob was lonely after his divorce.
He thought he'd found a friend, someone to watch games with.

Speaker 1 Taylor shot him in the head and buried him in quicklime. No amount of therapy changes that.
The prosecutor said, yeah, he's bonkers. We got to keep him in there.
So his release is goddamn denied.

Speaker 1 So that's gone. That is denied.

Speaker 1 Now we go to

Speaker 1 2010. Tries to get out again.

Speaker 1 They figured out, by the way, an examination of him after his 2005 request cost taxpayers $1,950, and another assessment cost $900.

Speaker 1 The bill for this 2010 psychiatrist, $4,040.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 this point, they're like, he's 63 years old. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Statistically, once you hit 60, they rarely commit violent crimes. Really? They're going by.
That's statistical.

Speaker 1 One doctor said, Mr. Taylor hasn't even achieved the least restrictive status within Mendota.
He's tested boundaries,

Speaker 1 tried to cheek his medication, shown narcissistic antisocial behaviors beyond schizophrenia.

Speaker 1 They also found out he'd been writing letters to women on the outside claiming to be a wrongfully imprisoned musician without ever mentioning murders.

Speaker 1 He's denied.

Speaker 1 2013, he applies for and gets a jury trial to look over this. A jury is going to look over whether to

Speaker 1 release him. To let him out or not.
Yes. He says, no words can express the deep sorrow I feel for the trauma I've caused.
Hardly a day goes by when I'm not reminded of those that I've hurt.

Speaker 1 He said, my recovery process has been frightening, long, and very, very painful. And they said, keep it going, asshole.
Denied.

Speaker 1 Get back in there. Paul Zwick testified in that.
He said, I still have nightmares.

Speaker 1 I check behind doors. I can't stay in hotels.
This man tried to kill me with a hammer and a screwdriver because he thought I was, what, a demon, evil? I was 23 years old trying to earn college money.

Speaker 1 So get the fuck back in there.

Speaker 1 Five jurors, four women and one man, it's a panel, so it took them 47 minutes to unanimously decide you're not getting out.

Speaker 1 2016, again, they say he represents a clear and present danger to the community. Mental illness explains his actions, but doesn't excuse them or eliminate the risk.

Speaker 1 That's that denied. 2022,

Speaker 1 motion for release. Now he's wheelchair bound and has diabetes and heart problems.

Speaker 1 They're saying he's not crazy anymore, but they're saying, yes, yes, yes, he may not be crazy that way, but now he's 75 to the age where his mental facilities will start dwindling, also, making him crazier.

Speaker 1 So we can't let him out. Wow.
A doctor said, Mr. Taylor's delusions remained fixed.
He simply learned not what not to say.

Speaker 1 In unguarded moments, he still refers to his victims as demons and himself as as God's soldier. Is that what it is? 2025, he has another petition pending release this month.

Speaker 1 And the family still show up. Dorothy Hayden, Tim's mom, is 91 years old and in a wheelchair.
And she shows up and said, I'll be here every time until one of us is dead. He took my baby.

Speaker 1 He doesn't get to be free. At a girl, there you go, everybody.
Menominee and Springbrook and El Claire and all these different places. Never got out, huh? He's still there.
Wow.

Speaker 1 So that is a crazy fucking story. Holy shit.
Insane. So there you go.
If you like that story, get on whatever app you're on. Give us five stars.
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You get all sorts of shit.

Speaker 1 You get a back catalog, hundreds of episodes you've never heard before of bonus stuff, new ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, One Small Town Murder.

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Speaker 1 And you get get a shout out, Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never, ever, ever think that they were being talked to through the air conditioner, so they had to kill us.

Speaker 1 Hit me with them right now. This week's executive producer, Gary Howard in Atlanta,

Speaker 1 Ian Stevenson, happy birthday, Ian. Happy birthday.
And Dan Forbes, keep up the good fight, bud. You're doing great.
Danny Forbes.

Speaker 1 Peyton Meadows, the Shasta.

Speaker 1 She's the Shesha. Zimmerman.
I don't know what that means.

Speaker 1 I don't know what either. Other producers this week are Ryan Bender, Happy Hour, and Granberry.
I think it was Texas. God damn it.
I didn't write the state. Somewhere, Google it.
Janice Hill,

Speaker 1 Okie Colis,

Speaker 1 Jacob Whitey, Wildell, Wild A, Samantha Wallace, Joyce with no last name, Stephanie Armstrong, Brooke Meadowcroft, Jocelyn with no last name, Ashley Duke, Bertie Gal, Charlie Edwards, Christina Blakely, Julie with no last name, Brian G, Aaron Kennedy, Madeline Mora, Misha Moto with no last name.

Speaker 1 Trisha Robinson, Carl Alwert, Allwert. Not just not some of it, all of it.
LP, the letters LNP, Doc Halabay. You know the

Speaker 1 Doc Halibay. Yeah, yeah.
Jake Rhodes, Tiffany with no last name. Saul Dave.

Speaker 1 Samantha Lowe, Leanne French, Norma Wright, Casey C., Errol April Evans, Sako Portman, Corey Patterson, Gabriel Gabrielle, Gabrielle Hammond, Annie B., Joelle, Joel, perhaps, Rhea, Raya, Ray, Emily with no last name, Rich

Speaker 1 Emmoe,

Speaker 1 Melanie Rogers, Jenny Lean, Jay Law, Alicia Holloway, Mrs.

Speaker 1 Coop, Karen with no last name, Barbara Kish, Kim Sawaski, Zawadsky, Evan Mack, Jess with no last name, Mary Miller, Kim Wilbert, Henry Mattson, Connie Weaver, Posey Parkour, Tyler Christie, Nicholas Chips, Rissa J, Megan Jacobson, Danny Finn, Sherry Christensen, Ryan Anderson, Ryan Oakes, Steve Holler, Justin Odendahl, Kay with no last name, Denise with no last name, Susan, Michelle Odom, Candy Birdsell, Caroline Weber, Michael West, Monica Ricks, Jeff Raleigh, Whaley,

Speaker 1 Mike Cormier, Samantha with no last name, Christy Griner, Elise C, Erica Carlson, Angela French, Billy Wrinkles. All right.
Michaela. Billy Wrinkles over here.
That's a gal, actually, I think.

Speaker 1 Well, it's an IE. It could be whichever you want to be.
Michaela Griffith.

Speaker 1 Sounds like a euphemism for a button. It does.
Yeah. Billy Wrinkles over here.

Speaker 1 No offense, Billy Wrinkles, but. Or the sack.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Miles Clerking. Michaela Griffith.
I said that. Did Silverston, Sylvester,

Speaker 1 Megan Matthews, Kobe Peterson, Silverston. It's the same thing.
Adam Saltzman. Ray Raquel with no last name.
Tiffany Sloan. Michael Geary.
Stephanie with no last name.

Speaker 1 Jane Lombardo, Corey Williams, Shelby Murray, W. No, that's VW.

Speaker 1 Heath Smith, Maddie Grunwalt. I think I might be dyslexic.
That might be it. Really? Deanna with no last name.
Gina Bowers. That looks rough.

Speaker 1 It's certainly a start. Rough Barbara.
That's a hundred names, dude. That's hard.
I'm sorry. You're doing good.
Crazy Cat Lady in Boston. Tracy Workman.
I used to like this one podcast.

Speaker 1 This one? Why'd you you used to like, I don't know, D.L. Johnson, money if you don't like it anymore.
What's the matter? Bergie Ray.

Speaker 1 I used to like this. Take my money.
Kimberly Chavez, Stephen Jenkins, Dion with no last name. Dylan Cook, Carissa, Charissa Bryce, Kim with no last name.
Henry J.D., Erica Hug you Huskin.