"Mark Hamill"

Speaker 1 Wondering how you can invest in yourself and work towards a goal that will last? Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress.

Speaker 1 Scotty and I are here in England still, right in London. And before we leave, we're talking about going to Paris while we're over here because it's like, when are we going to be over here again?

Speaker 1 And so we might take a day just to go over to Paris. And we talked about how great it would be to use Rosetta Stone to learn just a little bit of French before we go.
It's French, right?

Speaker 1 And now, Smartlist listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. Visit rosettastone.com slash Smartlist to get started and claim your 50% off today.

Speaker 1 Nobody wants to spend the holiday season clicking from one site to the next to get their hands on the best brands. But who knew Walmart has the the top brands we all love?

Speaker 1 Like the big names that your friends and family actually want, and all in one place. Nespresso, Nintendo, Apple, you name it.
Get the brands everyone loves at prices you'll love at Walmart.

Speaker 2 Who knew?

Speaker 1 Go to walmart.com or download the app to get all your gifts this season.

Speaker 2 Guys, let's just scooch in here real quick.

Speaker 2 Let's just wedge our way in here right before we're going to start a not new, but I just want to scooch right in here right before we start and just kind of look at

Speaker 2 you in the eye.

Speaker 1 A little appetizer, a little audio appetizer.

Speaker 2 A little appetizer, just get a little scooch in. Just kind of like a quick little John, let's just make it a twosome today.
Okay, here we go.

Speaker 2 Welcome to Smartlist. Yeah, some wedged in.
Who's that other guy? Who is that other guy? Still wedged in. Here we go.
Smart.

Speaker 2 Smart

Speaker 2 Smart

Speaker 2 List

Speaker 3 Sean, where'd you get that sweet Smartless hat?

Speaker 1 Isn't that cool? From the from the merch store at Sirius XM.

Speaker 3 So you go to Sirius XM, you can just buy like smartless, like t-shirts, hats, and like, what if I wanted like leg warmers?

Speaker 2 Do they have those? What?

Speaker 1 Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 You could do all that you know um do we get any trade does anyone feel like we talked about this before yeah why'd they send us that i got one i don't know did you get it or no i did get it why did they send us one of those hats they're particularly proud of it i know because they're like new i guess in the store they're pretty sweet amanda stole mine immediately no yeah that's really cool who came up with those sean you had a hand in that that particular hat right No, I didn't.

Speaker 2 I haven't. No, not at all.

Speaker 3 Will's got notes.

Speaker 2 Hold on, hold on, hold on. Well, Will wants a trucker hat.
This is like a baseball hat. We'll like it.
Well, yeah, but it's a baseball hat.

Speaker 3 It's got a real real curve on the bill.

Speaker 3 It is a trucker hat, which I like, but it's got a real soft top to it.

Speaker 2 It's kind of

Speaker 2 rolls back.

Speaker 3 I like a high top to my trucker hat.

Speaker 2 We call that. It's almost got a slouch, and I don't like it.
Yeah, I know you can find it.

Speaker 3 But you can find

Speaker 3 the high-top trucker hats on the site there. Yes, you can.
Where is that, Sean?

Speaker 1 It's at the Sirius XM. I don't know the link.
Does anybody know the link? I don't know. Oh, we'll put it in the chat.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Everyone's getting the chat. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. People are jumping on the chat, right? Oh, hang on.
Let me just take a look. The chat is blowing up.

Speaker 1 Wait, Jay, did you make it to Maples game?

Speaker 3 I did. I saw the first quarter, and she was telling Will

Speaker 2 basketball, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 she's got incredible ball skills, which is what I think Sean's or Will's handle, maybe both your handles

Speaker 3 coming up through high school.

Speaker 3 Ball skill haze.

Speaker 2 Here he comes. I love not even commenting and just watching you sort of

Speaker 2 finding the joke.

Speaker 2 And I think that's what you will, my one of you you want.

Speaker 3 That's how I felt all day today

Speaker 3 doing our sketches today.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we were working on something today and chatting about something today that's to come that we keep talking about.

Speaker 3 I'm not sure we got anything usable today.

Speaker 2 I do not know what to do. Absolutely.
No, please. JB, give me a break.
Yeah, of course we did.

Speaker 2 Of course, of course, of course we did. And it's all

Speaker 2 in the vein of this fun thing that we keep talking about that

Speaker 2 we're really excited about. When are we going to talk more about

Speaker 2 in a few weeks?

Speaker 3 When is the audience ready to hear?

Speaker 2 In a matter of weeks, we're going to be able to talk about what it really is, and I think it's exciting.

Speaker 2 I'm very excited to share it. I'm excited, too.
Super excited.

Speaker 3 I think it's something that they might like. They might like.

Speaker 1 That's what else I'm excited about.

Speaker 3 What is that?

Speaker 3 Your next guest?

Speaker 2 This is what I like.

Speaker 2 I like a segue more than that. Smooth segue.

Speaker 1 Well, have you figured it out yet? Because I was talking to Will, giving him clues.

Speaker 2 I was trying to think, and you were like, oh, it's so give me a clue.

Speaker 3 I'll figure it out. I'm brighter than him.

Speaker 1 Well, so I'll read it. You'll guess it by the end of this intro.
Here we go.

Speaker 1 We'll have to add him to our smart list legendary all-star list, but I've just kind of started.

Speaker 1 But dedicated to his craft, he trained with an Olympic fencer before becoming the thing I cannot yet mention. As a child, he often contemplated who he'd rather fly as Superman or Peter Pan.

Speaker 1 His career started with a role on General Hospital, which primed him for the pilot of Eight is a Nunth. John Stamos.

Speaker 1 As he patiently awaited May 25th, 1977, when the world would come to know him as one of the most famous heroes in cinematic history, that role is Luke Skywalker, and he's

Speaker 1 Mark Hamill.

Speaker 2 Whoa! Whoa!

Speaker 2 Whoa!

Speaker 2 Whoa, Mr.

Speaker 3 Hamill.

Speaker 2 Now, Sean, how are you even

Speaker 2 sitting?

Speaker 1 I'm not even kidding.

Speaker 1 Look, I'm shaking a little bit.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Shaking a little bit. How'd you get through the day?

Speaker 3 Sorry, we're going to be you in a second, Mr.

Speaker 4 Hamill.

Speaker 3 This guy, Sean Hayes, lives and breathes Star Wars.

Speaker 2 He said,

Speaker 2 when you see my guests tonight, you're going to be like, of course, that makes total sense. And I was like,

Speaker 2 who could it be? It's not the mayor of Tatooine, but it's close. It's close.

Speaker 1 So, wait, just before we start, Mark, first of all, thank you for being on here. This is huge for me.
And thank you.

Speaker 2 All of us.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 Yeah, this guy's a national treasure for Christ.

Speaker 1 You are. And I can't believe you're, but before we start, I just want to read to you what you wrote on your Instagram about Stephen King.

Speaker 1 You wrote, it took every ounce of discipline I possessed to avoid freaking out and exposing myself as the weak-kneed, slavish fanboy I truly am.

Speaker 1 And of course, I feel the same way about you as you wrote about stephen king because i've been waiting 50 years to talk to you oh my god this is crazy

Speaker 2 it's crazy that i'm talking to you well it's not quite 50 years it's 47. i mean let's be honest because the movie came out in 77.

Speaker 2 i saw a new hope four times in a row i i know i give sean a lot of for being a star wars i saw the first one four times in the theaters when i was a kid wow so you were all like 12 13 14.

Speaker 2 i was seven we were seven we were both seven sean and i were both seven they both look much older than i do but uh

Speaker 3 Now, Will, did you pay four times for it or did you just?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I went four times. I went.
Yes, of course.

Speaker 3 You left the theater and re-entered four times.

Speaker 2 Nobody could believe it was a phenomenon that nobody could believe it. It changed everything.
And we were like.

Speaker 1 We talk about it all the time on this show when we talk about it.

Speaker 2 We do. We do talk.
And I give Sean a lot of shit just for being a nerd, Mark, but that's not the only reason he's a nerd. He's a nerd for a lot of other reasons.

Speaker 3 Mark, how was it to continue being a part of that going forward, on and on? Did you think it would go on this long?

Speaker 2 Oh, of course not. No, no, not at all.

Speaker 4 Although when we were doing it, I remember the first couple of days we shot in North Africa, I went over with Guinness and the droids, and I hadn't met Carrier Harrison yet.

Speaker 4 And I said to George, why is this episode four? Why aren't you starting with episode one? He goes, well, well, episode one, that's a lot of exposition and it's more political.

Speaker 4 This trilogy is much more commercial.

Speaker 3 So he did, did he, did he already have plans that he would go back and do those first three or did he just kind of jettison that from the very beginning and just like, ah, yeah, we're just going to not even do those first?

Speaker 4 Well, the way I understood it was that.

Speaker 4 He originally had planned four trilogies of 12, but when we were shooting, I asked him about the first trilogy and he said, he explained, well, this is more commercial.

Speaker 4 There's a lot of exposition and it's political and it's about taxation and blah, blah, blah. So I wanted to do, he wanted

Speaker 4 you to feel like you walked into a serial chapter play and you'd miss the first few episodes. That's why they had the crawl to bring you up to speed.
But I mean, as actors, you must appreciate this.

Speaker 4 When I auditioned,

Speaker 4 we just had a, it was an open cattle call. Brian DePama was casting Stephen King's Carry, the horror movie set in high school.
And George was casting Star Wars. And it was a cattle call.

Speaker 4 Like I say, you sat down, they said, tell us a little about yourself. And you talked for five minutes and they said, thank you.

Speaker 4 They didn't talk about the project at all. But here's the interesting part.
My agent says, okay, you've got a screen test.

Speaker 4 We're sending you the page. It was like a 10-page scene with Harrison as Han Solo in the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon.
No Wookiee, just the two of us. But there was no context.

Speaker 4 I mean, I'm reading this thing going, wait a second, is this like a parody or a send-up of

Speaker 4 Slash Gordon? Is it like Mel Brooks or whatever? So when I went to the audition, I went to Harrison because he had done American Graffiti. He'd known George.

Speaker 4 And I said, Harrison, is this like, are we, is this like a send-up? I mean, is it, he said, hey, kid, let's just get it done. You know,

Speaker 2 he was absolutely know-how.

Speaker 1 I could listen to you imitate him all day.

Speaker 3 So was he, did he have to audition at all, or was he, he was already set in that part coming off of American Graffiti?

Speaker 4 Well, no, he'd already done American Graffiti. When I did the screen test, I don't know whether he was set or not, but he did do a screen test with Carrie.
So I guess George was fairly sure.

Speaker 4 And there were two sets of three.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 Marsha Lucas, George's wife, said, when he was packing to go to London, he hadn't decided between the two. I mean, there was no mix and match.

Speaker 4 It was me, Harrison, and Carrie, or Will Seltzer, Terry, Nunn, and I forget now who was Han Solo. And she took credit.
She said, I'm the one that suggests he go with you guys.

Speaker 2 That's great. That's amazing.

Speaker 4 But here's, here's what's so interesting is, and I went to George at the same audition, said the same thing I said to Harrison. Is this like a parody or a re-series?

Speaker 2 He went,

Speaker 4 well, let's just do it and we'll talk about it later. Translation, translation, let's just do it and we'll never talk about it later.

Speaker 3 Shut up and hit your mark.

Speaker 4 Exactly. George is not like,

Speaker 4 he's not an actor's director. He comes alive in the editing room.

Speaker 4 He doesn't want to hear about backstory or motivation or whatever. Now, Irvin Kirshner was the opposite.
He was very much into that. He did Empire.

Speaker 4 But like I say, the moment my agents said, okay, you got it. And they're sending the script over.
I will never forget reading that script for the first time because it just... blew my mind.

Speaker 4 I mean, even without John Williams' music

Speaker 4 or the special effects, yes, it was all on the page, you guys. You really got the sense of...

Speaker 2 Amazing.

Speaker 4 Yes, it was.

Speaker 3 What about you realizing what part you had just gotten?

Speaker 2 Well, that's, that's it.

Speaker 4 I have to tell you, Jason, when I,

Speaker 4 it was weeks, maybe a month later. And when I tested, I figured, oh, Harrison's the leading man.
I'm like the annoying sidekick, right? Because I'm badgering him and all this stuff.

Speaker 2 That's your son.

Speaker 4 And I have to do this for you. I mean, my daughter has heard this a million times.
There was a line in the screen test that thankfully was not in the finished product.

Speaker 4 We're going towards the Death Star, and

Speaker 4 Solo says, basically, look, I've done my part.

Speaker 4 When we get to an inhabitable asteroid, I'm dumping you and the droids off. And here's my actual line.

Speaker 4 But we can't turn back. Fear is their greatest defense.
I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquali or Sullas.

Speaker 4 And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

Speaker 4 Now, try try and make that sound like it's a spontaneous thought just coming off the top of your head. I mean, it's just, and I mean, you could diagram the sentence.
Well,

Speaker 1 whenever Scotty and I run out to the store, we say this last.

Speaker 1 But I was going to Tashi Station to pick up some power converters. Which here it is.
Here it is.

Speaker 3 I was going to Tashi Station to pick up some power converters.

Speaker 2 There you go.

Speaker 4 You know, and people don't believe me, but I was trying to be as whiny baby as I could so I had somewhere to go.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, you had to be this kid who did,

Speaker 2 yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 And you got to be as annoying and whiny as possible. But, you know, I still get garbage over that over the years.

Speaker 2 I just, I just watched, I just, I didn't even tell you this, Sean. I just watched A New Hope again recently with the little kids.
Oh, yeah. And with my kids, and it just holds up in the mindset.

Speaker 2 Holds up.

Speaker 1 How old is it? How old is it? What is it?

Speaker 1 1960.

Speaker 4 Shot it in 76 and it came out in 77.

Speaker 2 You guys shot it in 70. You shot it in 76.
It's 48, 19. 49.
Yeah, I was

Speaker 4 24.

Speaker 2 Almost 49. Wow.
So you go, so you shoot that thing in 1976

Speaker 2 in London and in North Africa. Right.
Right.

Speaker 2 And I remember, by the way, I remember my friend, this guy I worked with, Peter Cohn, who he was a first assistant director on lots of big movies.

Speaker 2 But one of his first jobs, he was a PA, right, on A New Hope, Peter was.

Speaker 4 Yes. And the thing was, he was not going to be able to go to, they weren't taking him to North Africa, but when they discovered he spoke French, he was in.

Speaker 4 And he was like 19, and we became fast friends. And he's still one of my closest friends today.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 He's a great guy. And I worked with him on a couple movies.
He was the first AD on Blades of Glory. He was also first AD on With Nail and I, which is my favorite film of all time.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 2 So, but I remember him telling me, and maybe Mark, you can speak to this, telling me about, like, for instance, R2D2 is just like this, because it was 1976, it was just like this bucket, like this metallic thing.

Speaker 2 And it would fall over, they'd kick it.

Speaker 4 Yes, exactly. It's a marvel of editing.

Speaker 3 Sean, why are you crying?

Speaker 2 Sean,

Speaker 1 I'm on the verge. On the verge.

Speaker 2 No, but tell us.

Speaker 4 Well, no, it was like you say, I mean, George called it the most expensive, low-budget movie ever made.

Speaker 4 And what he meant by that was every single penny has to be up on the screen. The only people they actually had to pay decent salaries to would be Alec Guinness and Peter Cushing.

Speaker 4 All of us were unknowns. I think I got a thousand a week.
I remember complaining to my agent, well, I make 8,000 to 10,000 on television a week. And she said, hey, get a grip.
It's a movie.

Speaker 4 It's George Lucas. It's Alec Guinness.

Speaker 2 I went, oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 And as you know, I mean,

Speaker 4 The money is secondary. We do this because we love it.
Yes. And if you can get a nice salary, good for you.

Speaker 1 And so, but wait, what about Robert England? And for my sister, Tracy, Robert England was Freddy Krueger. And he told you to audition for Star Wars.
Is that true?

Speaker 4 Well, in his book, he said, you know, basically, if it weren't for me, Mark wouldn't be Luke's car worker. And to be fair, I mean, I love Robert.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 But when he said that to me, he had just come back from an audition. You know how it is.
Once you've auditioned, you feel free to tell your friends, oh, have you been out for this thing?

Speaker 4 And he said, have you been out for this George Lucas thing? And I said, no. And I went to the phone, I called my agent, and I said, and I told her about it.
And she said, I'm all over it.

Speaker 4 You've got an appointment next Wednesday. So I hate to burst Robert's bubble.
And

Speaker 4 it makes for a better story.

Speaker 2 Sure, it's a good soundbite, but you know what? We've put it to rest now. And fucking

Speaker 2 about to unload. I don't know the guy who unloads great.

Speaker 3 Were you, were you,

Speaker 2 what was your work schedule like before

Speaker 3 Star Wars?

Speaker 1 Were you

Speaker 1 in the pilot of Eight is Enough.

Speaker 4 that's what I want to know and then you got replaced but they changed a lot of the people in the pilot they changed the father they changed three siblings including me

Speaker 4 I was just doing

Speaker 4 you know I

Speaker 4 did TV after the soap I did TV movies I don't know how many of 30 or something between 70 and 76 and lots and lots of you know

Speaker 3 FBI and you were you were you're a working actor this this wasn't a huge shock to you to the system when this thing took off. I mean, I guess how can you be prepared for that kind of exposure? But

Speaker 4 you weren't right off a truck.

Speaker 2 No, no, no.

Speaker 4 And the way I felt about it, I thought I didn't see any ads for it on television. Like, I'd watch Saturday Night Live, and usually they play

Speaker 4 a movie commercials there. I didn't see it.

Speaker 4 And on the day it opened, the driver picked me up to go dub the 35 millimeter prints because it only opened in like 16 theaters in 70 millimeter. And I said, can you drive by Grammas Chinese?

Speaker 4 I want to see what it looks like up on the marquee. Well, here's a fun fact.
There was such disagreement on how to promote it at Fox that it opened with no poster.

Speaker 2 No, wow.

Speaker 4 They just stapled the lobby cards up because they couldn't, is this like that one faction was promoting it like

Speaker 4 an entertainment journey beyond your imagination, far beyond. The other one was like pushing the more comedic aspects, you know, little rascals in outer space.
But they couldn't agree.

Speaker 4 So anyway, I said, can you drive by Graham's?

Speaker 4 And now, what I thought was this thing's going to take a couple of weeks to get going because the hardcore sci-fi fantasy horror fans are all going to see it on day one, but it'll take word of mouth for it to spread and say, hey, you know what?

Speaker 4 It's pretty funny, too. And it's, you know, it's all these things.

Speaker 4 But so anyway, we drove by and I couldn't believe my eyes. There were lines around the block the first day.
So I couldn't figure it out.

Speaker 3 Yeah, what was the promotion that

Speaker 3 got that amount of interest going? I was too young to really notice it, but how do you think

Speaker 3 they accrued that much interest in it without the posters and stuff?

Speaker 4 Well, they did a poster by, I think Hildebrand was the artist, and they depicted Luke as like 6'2 and ripped with muscles and

Speaker 4 didn't look anything like me.

Speaker 1 And I didn't even audition, but yeah.

Speaker 2 But you know what's funny, though, what a great example, once again, of how fucking lucky the suits got. All right.

Speaker 2 And they kind of got in their own way and couldn't agree on a poster and who are so quick to rush to take credit for shit and blah, blah, blah. And I know that.

Speaker 2 It was the merits of it that they gave it to me. And it was the merits of

Speaker 2 the picture itself that got it to where and created this thing.

Speaker 2 And how quickly do you think, Mark, those same people who decided that they couldn't figure out to put a fucking poster or whatever, how quickly do you think they took credit at dinner that night or the next day, or at a lunch with other people?

Speaker 2 It isn't the way it is. It's surly.

Speaker 4 Yeah, isn't that the way? Because they really didn't see any potential. And

Speaker 4 we didn't

Speaker 4 really prepare to dump it. But, you know, George had made a graffiti at Universal and the head of Universal wanted to dump it on the second half of a double bill.

Speaker 4 And it was only Francis Ford Coppola that went to him and said, look, you've got to give this a chance because they were mad because they spent so much money to get the rights to all the music, all the vintage rock and roll.

Speaker 4 But to think that American graffiti could have been just thrown away and they never learned. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We'll be right back.

Speaker 2 Today's episode is sponsored by Ashley. They don't just sell incredible furniture.
They're also making an impact in vulnerable communities. Here's a tough fact.

Speaker 2 Over 7 million kids are affected by the welfare system and over 368,000 are currently in foster care.

Speaker 2 So together with Ashley and SiriusXM, we made a donation to four others, an organization working to end the child welfare crisis in America.

Speaker 2 You know, partnering with Ashley in our live show, First of all, they just made our set look really good.

Speaker 2 They made us really comfortable and they kind of made us look legit because otherwise it would have been, you know, milk crates crates and,

Speaker 2 you know, cardboard boxes. And Ashley made it look like a real, kind of looked like a living room, made it really comfortable, made our guest, John Mayer, really comfortable.

Speaker 2 And then he thought that maybe we were professional. We're not just a bunch of clowns.
To be honest, there was a point where I got so comfortable, I forgot that I was in front of an audience.

Speaker 2 I was sitting back on that nice Ashley couch and I was just hanging out with my buds in my living room.

Speaker 2 Anyway, Ashley offers timeless, well-crafted furniture with white glove delivery right to your door. Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style.

Speaker 1 Hey, all you underwearers. Are you sick of feeling bounced around? Have you got a bad case of juggler's jock?

Speaker 1 Is your junk drawer on life support? Well, Duluth Trading Company is here to get you buck naked.

Speaker 1 Since 1989, Duluth Trading Company has been engineering unders and workwear to help tackle your toughest tasks.

Speaker 1 Everything from underwater wielding to botanical gardening to excruciating Hollywood lunch meetings. Duluth Trading's buck naked underwear, life-affirming.

Speaker 1 Doesn't matter if you're working overtime, golfing 36 holes, or dragging your co-hosts through a podcast. The no-pinch, no stink, no-sweat construction keeps you comfortable.

Speaker 1 And the crotch-cradling bullpen pouch, the epitome of support. Duluth keeps me super comfortable.
Every time I'm wearing it, I feel fully supported.

Speaker 1 So, if you've got a rear end and you're ready to go buck naked, visit duluthtrading.com or shop in store today.

Speaker 1 This is an ad by BetterHelp. Have you ever had someone that you haven't reached out to in a long time and you're just like, you know what, just do it.

Speaker 1 I just did that recently and it was such a wonderful experience. We had a great lunch, a lot of catching up and I'm so glad we did it.
It was great.

Speaker 1 As the seasons change, shorter days don't have to weigh you down. This season, BetterHelp encourages you to reach out, check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones, and remind them you're there.

Speaker 1 Just like it takes a little courage to send that text or grab coffee with someone you haven't seen in a while, reaching out for therapy can feel difficult too, but it can be worth it.

Speaker 1 It can leave people wondering, why didn't I do this sooner? With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy platforms. BetterHelp therapists are fully qualified.

Speaker 1 BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. This month, don't wait to reach out.

Speaker 1 Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step.

Speaker 1 Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/slash smartless. That's betterhelp.com/slash smartless.

Speaker 2 And now back to the show.

Speaker 3 Hey, what had John Williams done before? He did Jaws before he was

Speaker 1 so much.

Speaker 3 No, but before Jaws or this.

Speaker 1 He did Lost in Space. He did.

Speaker 4 He was billed as Johnny Williams, and he did a lot of universal television shows.

Speaker 2 I mean, we were so lucky. He did Gilligan's Island.

Speaker 4 Aside from George, I think he's probably more responsible for the success of that film than any other single person.

Speaker 4 Because when I remember Gary Kurtz, the producer, picked me up to go to another dubbing session.

Speaker 4 He said, oh, I just got the score from, you know, I was over in London with when he put it on, you guys, I'm telling you,

Speaker 4 I felt tears streaming down my face. I just couldn't.
Exactly.

Speaker 4 I also wanted to finish the story about me reading it for the first time. Remember, I got it without reading a script.

Speaker 4 I just had read that one. Yeah, sorry, keep going.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 4 When I opened to the first page, it said, The adventures of Luke Starkiller as taken from the Journal of the Wills, saga number one, The Star Wars. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, wasn't I Luke?

Speaker 4 No, I guess Harrison was Luke because I figured

Speaker 4 he was a traditional leading man. He was 35 or whatever, and he was Harrison Ford.
Come on.

Speaker 4 So I started to read this thing, and I, you know, in the very beginning, I realized, oh my God, this is seen through the eyes of this teenage farm boy. I mean, that was unusual in and of itself.

Speaker 4 You'd think it'd probably be through the eyes of

Speaker 2 Hans Solo.

Speaker 4 But, I mean, that's the journey that Luke.

Speaker 1 Give us a little bit of Harrison's reaction when he read the script.

Speaker 4 Well, by the way, Sean, I have to tell you, after I

Speaker 4 didn't say, oh, I'm going to go do an impression of Harrison Ford. I was on

Speaker 4 Seth Meyers

Speaker 4 and I was just relaying a story that happened to us when we were on the Death Star.

Speaker 4 We were midday and I said, wait a second, this scene takes place after we were in the trash compactor, which we hadn't filmed yet.

Speaker 4 Or maybe we had, because I said, shouldn't I have like some schmutz and messy hair and

Speaker 4 polystyrene

Speaker 4 in my hair?

Speaker 2 And he goes, hey, kid,

Speaker 4 it ain't that kind of movie.

Speaker 4 If anybody's looking at your hair, we're all in big trouble.

Speaker 4 And I went, boy, is he right.

Speaker 4 You know, I told him, I said, you know,

Speaker 4 you'd really make a great director if you weren't so lazy because he knows his part and he knows everybody and he'll, he'll give you suggestions. They're all gold.
I just idolized him.

Speaker 4 I mean, when he walked in the door the first time, because I went back after he would do this stuff in Africa, Harrison came first and he comes on the soundstage, you know, in his.

Speaker 4 uh Han Solo gear and I just I already liked him in the conversation and

Speaker 4 America Graffiti anyway. But I mean, I just was, the relationship was real because I idolized him.
I looked at him as a mentor or an older brother and all that.

Speaker 2 So I love him. He was so fucking cool with the vest and shit.

Speaker 4 And when I read it, I thought, oh, my God, why don't I ever get the part of the womanizing gambler and scoundrel?

Speaker 2 You know, I'm just like, oh, I'm going to talk to you station.

Speaker 2 I did a thing for Vanity Fairwoods, and they said you can do any, you know, any sort of character from a film, blah, blah, blah. And I went as Harrison Ford

Speaker 2 from Star Wars. Oh, yeah, which is because I was like, yeah,

Speaker 2 he was a cowboy. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Speaking of that, you must know, Mark, that these guys know Scotty, my husband, is as big a fan as I am.

Speaker 2 How far off camera is he right now?

Speaker 1 He might be coming on right this second.

Speaker 2 Oh, good.

Speaker 1 Because he has a couple.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 boys.

Speaker 2 He's dressed as Kyla Ren. Dressed as Kyla Ren.
I'm in the nerdy dirty.

Speaker 3 Scotty and the Kyla Ren.

Speaker 2 More royalties for George Lucas. Very good.

Speaker 1 Scotty's got like a couple.

Speaker 2 Hi, Scott. He's been waiting.
I've been sitting here for like an hour.

Speaker 4 You know, my mom told me, she said, when you were born, I couldn't decide on a name. It was between Mark and Scott.

Speaker 4 And they said, if you don't decide right now, we're just going to put baby Hamill on the birth certificate. So she literally flipped a coin.

Speaker 4 And of course, when she tells you that at age seven, you go, oh, Scott's so much. A cooler name.

Speaker 2 You should have named me Scott. You always want what you don't have, right? But

Speaker 1 I'm a big fan, but Scotty's like a mega, mega fan. All right, goes.
And he's got a couple questions and then Scottie.

Speaker 2 It's nice.

Speaker 2 Hang on. First of all, welcome to Smartless.
Yeah, Scotty's debut.

Speaker 2 On the proper podcast, yeah. On the proper podcast.

Speaker 5 I may have been seen in the background, but that's an Ogle.

Speaker 5 Mark, it's such an honor to meet you. I mean,

Speaker 2 it goes without saying as such a huge fan I am.

Speaker 5 But I think my question really is:

Speaker 2 at what point

Speaker 5 when everything was done, the film was done, it was completed, and it was about to come out, and all of that, I know the typical question is, did you know it was going to be a hit?

Speaker 5 Of course, nobody knows it's going to be a hit.

Speaker 5 Anything's going to be a hit. It just, it's not up to us.

Speaker 2 But when did you have that visceral sort of reaction like we all had?

Speaker 5 Or did you ever have it like audiences had, where you realized, oh, this is something bigger than all of us.

Speaker 4 This is unfortunate. There was a moment and it was we they sent the three of us, Carrie Harrison and me on

Speaker 4 to to promote it. And we did Vancouver.
I don't think it had opened. And then it opened.
And when we came into Chicago, I looked outside the plane and I saw massive crowds.

Speaker 4 And I said, hey, you guys, there's somebody famous on this plane.

Speaker 4 we were we were looking around to see if like there was a big sports star or whatever and then as we got closer said hey carry look that girl has buns on she's got the princess lab hairs in that guy's got a uh the vests and everything somebody had made a luke tunic out of a pillow because there were people dressed like us and like we all looked at each other like whoa

Speaker 4 that's above and beyond i mean we want it to be a successful movie but when you see people then role-playing especially 50 years later right?

Speaker 2 I mean, it's like, hey, exactly. Like a grown man.
Go ahead. Next question, Scotty.

Speaker 5 Listen,

Speaker 5 I'm here to give Sean a break from the harassment.

Speaker 2 It's now for me.

Speaker 4 Listen, I have to tell you, it's a double-edged sword because what will happen is, and this has been happening for 20, 30 years.

Speaker 4 The kids that were little when it came out are now parents of their own and you'll be in an airport or something. And, you know, a five or six year old, they think we made Star Wars two weeks ago.

Speaker 4 I mean, there's nothing to really date it in terms of models of cars or clothing or whatever.

Speaker 4 So they have no concept of time. And so they'll be, you know, the parents will gesture to a 55-year-old me and go, hey, kids, look who it is.
It's Luke Skywalker.

Speaker 2 And they look at this, look at me in horror, like, God, what happened to this guy? He really let himself go.

Speaker 3 Great makeup artist in the movie.

Speaker 4 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 So, um, so wait, so Scotty, do you have another question before you take off?

Speaker 2 Oh, Jesus Christ. No, I didn't realize I'd be by me.

Speaker 1 No, you can hang out. I didn't know if you wanted to.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. No, I would love to see you.

Speaker 2 Hang on. Hang on.
Hang on. Hang on one second.
Let me just say, Scotty, Scotty, I don't think that Sean meant that.

Speaker 2 I think that what he meant to say, like, he didn't know if you had, well, Sean, I got this. And then Sean,

Speaker 2 Sean, look at Scotty and tell him what he meant to say.

Speaker 1 Well, what I meant to say was, I didn't know if you had to go somewhere, and I didn't want to keep you on the side.

Speaker 2 Where the fuck does he have to go? Be honest. I mean, what are you talking about? This is great.

Speaker 3 Now, Scott, how are you feeling?

Speaker 3 No, no, look at Sean and you tell him how you're feeling.

Speaker 5 I'm feeling wonderful, and thank you for the opportunity.

Speaker 4 It's great.

Speaker 5 It's a pleasure to be here. And

Speaker 2 our hours are here. I'm glad that Mark could be here for the two of the biggest Star Wars fans in the world that Mark, you could see them working.
In couples therapy. In couples therapy.

Speaker 4 We owe everything to the fans. If it weren't for them,

Speaker 4 we wouldn't be anywhere.

Speaker 2 Right, right, right.

Speaker 2 Wait, Scott, Scottie, you have to have one last burning desire question. Yeah,

Speaker 1 what about Norway with the Empire Strikes Back and the snow? Remember, we were talking about that?

Speaker 5 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wasn't there,

Speaker 5 I could have this wrong, but wasn't there a thing where you guys were, you know, where you were in Norway, it was just absolutely treacherous with all the snow. And I think you guys were scheduled to

Speaker 5 go shoot somewhere or whatever it was, but it was so bad, then you just went out the back door and did something.

Speaker 4 Exactly. Here's what happened.

Speaker 4 Our luck was terrible. We had rainstorms in Tunisia that cost us, we had to shut down.
Then we go to Norway. It was like the coldest winter in, I don't know, 110 billion years, whatever it was.

Speaker 4 And they had found a glacier.

Speaker 4 which was about an hour and a half from where we were staying. And we would take, we were meant to go on snow buggies because it photographed on camera, it photographed blue.

Speaker 4 And I remember now, this is the days before a lot of CGI. Everything was practical in those days.
So the day arrives for us to go to this blue glacier, and they said, it's impossible.

Speaker 4 I mean, even if we go there, it'll be wided out from the blizzard. So like you say, it's me, it was Han Solo rescuing Luke in the snow after getting hit by the Wampa.

Speaker 4 And if you turn the camera around, there's people on the balcony sipping cocoa watching us.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 We're about 100 yards from the back of the hotel. That's crazy.

Speaker 3 This is where you cut the belly open on the thing and you got inside.

Speaker 2 Exactly. No way.

Speaker 4 That is so, I mean, they were all enjoying it. But

Speaker 4 it's funny now because, you know, in those days.

Speaker 4 there wasn't so much security. In other words, when I read Star Wars, I just blew my mind and I said, oh, my God, I've got to get my friend Jonathan to read this.

Speaker 4 My best friend Jonathan worked down at the LA Art Museum and I passed it to him and he read it. He He said, yeah,

Speaker 4 I don't know how they're going to do this or what it is really. He goes,

Speaker 4 can I give it to Meredith? I said, yeah, sure. So we passed it all around.

Speaker 2 All my friends read it. It was before everything was coded with your name on it,

Speaker 4 where you have to protect it with your life.

Speaker 4 It was just a different time. And like I say, I had a blast.
I mean, one thing that hit me, I said, you know what, what I love about this is you can take from it what you want.

Speaker 4 In other words, it's effortlessly feminist. The princess is anything but a shrinking violet.
She takes over her own rescue, makes Han and Luke look like a couple of chumps. You call this a rescue?

Speaker 4 Give me that gun. She's standing up to Vader, nose to nose, and, you know, really giving him.
Right. And so what I'm saying is that is

Speaker 4 just accepted and it's

Speaker 2 ahead of its time.

Speaker 3 How long was the shoot? Do you remember that?

Speaker 4 Yeah, it was like, I think it was scheduled for 10 weeks and we went 12. Wow.
But that was, I mean, that was Star Wars on Empire. It was crazy because it was scheduled for three months, four months.

Speaker 4 Everybody rapped and went home. And I was still the only human being on the call sheet.
There was a puppet.

Speaker 4 a

Speaker 4 robot, various snakes and lizards, and one human being because they built Dagobah on a soundstage at L Street. And,

Speaker 4 you know, I mean, it's amazing that we could get away with that. Cause I was reading the script, I said, how are they going to do Yoda?

Speaker 4 Is it going to be, is it going to be, you know, stop frame animation or whatever?

Speaker 2 I didn't know it was going to be a puppet.

Speaker 4 But I'm telling you, Frank Oz is such an artist. When he puts that thing on, you're just there.
You know, it was so real to me.

Speaker 4 And he was always breaking down. The eyes would go cockeye, the ears wouldn't work.

Speaker 4 So they had like a stand-in, which was just a foam mold of his face, you know, with a piece of blue tape where his eyes are supposed to be.

Speaker 4 And so every time you see me in a single talking to him, he's not there.

Speaker 2 But I can, I can be a Jedi.

Speaker 4 I'm saying to this foam rubber.

Speaker 4 Again, Frank Oz, I mean, he's, I've saw, we're the best of friends. What is it? All these years later, he's just one of my favorite people in the business and so talented.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's so amazing. Scotty, Scotty, before you go now, I'm saying before you go, before you go, before before you go, do you want to do your Yoda impression for Mark?

Speaker 4 Oh, yes, let's hear it.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 No, I'm kidding.

Speaker 5 I'm sure it's never been done.

Speaker 1 Oh, there you go. There you go.
That was great. That's great.
That's that.

Speaker 2 That was very good. That was very good.
That was good.

Speaker 2 Thank you, guys. Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 Thanks, Scotty.

Speaker 1 I'll see you.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Scotty. That happens all the time.

Speaker 4 I was on CNN and Jim Acosta did a Yoda impression.

Speaker 2 Marko.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 4 everybody reverts to their nine-year-old nerd self.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes, absolutely. Because

Speaker 2 it's like, unlike anything else, everybody on the planet has seen it and knows what it is. Think about that.
Yeah, that is strange.

Speaker 4 And I have to tell you, when I read it, I thought, you know, this is, I am so there. I mean, even if I had not gotten the part,

Speaker 4 I would be dying to see this movie.

Speaker 4 That's how I felt.

Speaker 2 Do you remember, you know, I love that story that you talk about on Empire where you, when everybody, you know, if the camera were to turn around, they'd see people sipping cocoa on the deck.

Speaker 2 Do you look at certain scenes from over the years, from over all the movies and go like, well, I've done this before, but you go like, oh, I remember I was really sick that day.

Speaker 2 Like you watch a take and you go, oh, yeah, that was the day I ate the bad fish.

Speaker 3 Or that was the first scene we shot or the last scene we shot.

Speaker 4 You know, I saw them when they came out, but I don't go back and see them again.

Speaker 4 In fact, when they did the reissue with the special editions, when they called me and I said, oh, yeah, if you could send me a copy, I'd like to see it.

Speaker 4 When my kids heard about it, they said, Are you kidding? You're not going to go see it in the theater. I said, Why do you guys want to see it? You've seen it a bazillion times on video.

Speaker 4 They said, But never on a big screen. Yeah,

Speaker 2 yeah. So I did.

Speaker 4 I saw, I saw Empire, uh, and the first one, Empire and Jedi, once in the theater, but I haven't seen them again since. And the same with the sequels.

Speaker 4 You see them, and then you just move on to the video.

Speaker 3 Wait, you've seen Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi only once in the movie theaters and never again?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I don't watch them on video, to tell you the truth. And

Speaker 4 there's a certain disconnect because the fans have seen them not only far more recently, but many, many, many, many, many more times than I have.

Speaker 4 So they'll ask me questions where I go, wait a second, because this is, do we go to the?

Speaker 4 They go, well, it's not in a movie. It's in Splinter of the Mind's Eye.
It's a novel by Harry Dean Fox. So they play the games, they read the books, and and they know way more about it.

Speaker 4 I know I've disappointed people. I took a Star Wars quiz once and flunked it.
Nathan said, it was multiple choice.

Speaker 2 What kind of memorial they also have?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I was going to ask you when the last time was it you saw the first one, Star Wars?

Speaker 4 Would have been 97 because it was the 20th anniversary of

Speaker 4 when it first came out. But I mean, the question's like, what was Hans Solo smuggling? A, jewelry, B, units, C, it was spices.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 4 who knows the, I mean, the minutiae that these people have is really astonishing. And I hate to disappoint people if I go to these.

Speaker 2 Didn't they have Spice Undune, too? Yeah, Dune.

Speaker 2 What's with the spices in space? Well, people like that.

Speaker 2 It's a real hot commodity in space. You know, get some tarragon up in space.
What you're giving up the, you're in the highest of cotton. Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1 What is the craziest fan interaction you've had? Whoa, God. Like, do you have like, besides today with Scotty?

Speaker 4 Well, number one, don't sign body parts.

Speaker 2 Oh, boy.

Speaker 4 No good can come from that. Okay.

Speaker 2 Noted?

Speaker 4 For the most part, you know what it's like. I mean,

Speaker 4 when it all happened and went crazy, we were sort of in the center of the storm. So it seemed like everybody was going nuts around us.
We weren't going nuts.

Speaker 2 Right, right, right.

Speaker 4 But it was a different time. I mean, you'd have people just proposition you like, really?

Speaker 2 Yeah, come on back.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we will be right back.

Speaker 1 Let's be real. We all deserve snacks that hit that sweet spot, delicious and better for you.
That's where Skinny Pop Popcorn comes in.

Speaker 1 Skinny Pop uses quality ingredients to bring you the light and tasty flavors you love. Skinny Pop keeps it simple and tasty, using quality ingredients to create light, craveable popcorn.

Speaker 1 The original ready-to-eat flavor is made with just three ingredients, popcorn, kernels, sunflower oil, and salt. Nothing more.
Nothing weird.

Speaker 1 And if you're feeling adventurous, they've got plenty of flavors to choose from. White cheddar, sweet and salty kettle, and more.

Speaker 1 It's always non-GMO, gluten-free with plenty of vegan-friendly options, too. I started taking a little bit of a more break from the sweet side of my life with like candy bars.

Speaker 1 I mean, I still eat them and stuff, but for movie night, I still go to Skinny Pop just because of the natural ingredients. I love it.
It tastes so good, and it goes great with a movie.

Speaker 1 And my favorite is the original Skinny Pop. I love it.
I eat a whole bag in one sitting almost. Skinny Pop popcorn, deliciously popped, perfectly salted.
Shop Skinny Pop now.

Speaker 1 Life is full of choices like deciding whether to try that new food trend, which celebrity story to believe, or if the latest show is worth a stream or a skip.

Speaker 1 At State Farm, their goal is to help you make decisions that you feel good about. And when it comes to choosing coverage, you can feel the same.

Speaker 1 The State Farm personal price plan can help you create an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance you have options to choose from to help best fit your needs it's about giving flexibility offering coverage that makes sense and supporting smart decisions for both today and tomorrow so planning ahead feels easier and empowering talk to a state farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan like a good neighbor state farm is there prices are based on rating plans that vary by state coverage options are selected by the customer.

Speaker 1 Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.

Speaker 6 The family that vacations together stays together. At least, that was the plan.
Except now, the dastardly desk clerk is saying he can't confirm your connecting rooms. Wait, what? That's right, ma'am.

Speaker 6 You have rooms 201 and 709. No, we cannot be five floors away from our kids.
Uh, the doors have double locks, they'll be fine.

Speaker 6 When you want connecting rooms confirmed before you arrive, it matters where you stay.

Speaker 2 Welcome to Hilton.

Speaker 6 I see your connecting rooms are already confirmed. Hilton, for this day.

Speaker 1 And back to the show.

Speaker 2 Somebody asked me recently, they said, if you had a time machine and you could go back to any time to live, what would it be? And I said, late 70s, California. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because it feels like it was like a just like a kind of unregulated, just kind of a constant sunset party. It was a good time party

Speaker 2 no rules kind of it was crazy yeah it was great man well you were nine but but mark you as somebody who was like at the pinnacle of the film industry in that time it must have been a lot of fun yeah it was but you always try and say i haven't changed everybody else is going bonkers, but you know, you want to hang on to that.

Speaker 4 And plus, you,

Speaker 4 I immediately tried to throw myself into things because I wanted to do character parts. I wasn't getting them.

Speaker 4 You know, these guys, you do one thing well, they want you to do the same thing over and over again.

Speaker 4 So I went to New York and I was able to do character parts. It wasn't until I discovered animation where I went, oh, where's this been all my life? Because they cast with their ears, not their eyes.

Speaker 4 And you're able to play all these parts you'd never get on camera.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're like such a superstar voiceover actor now. It's incredible.

Speaker 4 But I'm too short to be the joker. You know, he's 6'2.
What I'm, you know, I'm 5'9 at best.

Speaker 1 But wait a minute. This is this is Mark.
This is you as the Joker, which is fucking crazy. It's incredible.

Speaker 2 Because now

Speaker 2 there's a teeny little bit of me and you too. That's why aren't you laughing?

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 That's incredible.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's from Arkham Asylum. And, you know, I had done the role for however long the first iteration came.
And there's so many good jokers after me, Kevin Michael Richardson and Jeff Bennett.

Speaker 1 No, you're one of the most iconic ones now. It's incredible.

Speaker 4 But what I'm saying is when we got to the video games, because I mean, I get mail in the original incarnation saying, why doesn't the Joker kill more people?

Speaker 4 And you have to say, it's a children's cartoon.

Speaker 2 There's the standards and practices.

Speaker 4 There was a list of things that you could not do. You could not punch someone directly in the face.
You couldn't. throw someone through a plate glass window.
No nudity, no liquor, no drugs, et cetera.

Speaker 4 Somebody made a drawing, Bruce Tim made a drawing of Batman flying through a glass window with a gin bottle and a hypodermic needle and a girl, you know, bare-chested. He broke all the rules and won.

Speaker 4 But by the time we got to the video games, which is, I don't know,

Speaker 4 I'm bad on time these days, but 10, 15, 20 years later, because Kevin Conroy was always my Batman.

Speaker 2 Okay, that's what I was going to ask you, who your Batman was. Yeah, Kevin Conroy.

Speaker 4 When Kevin passed, I said, this is a time for me not to do it anymore because, you know, I got to the point where my agent would call and they say, they want you for Joker. I'd say, is Kevin doing it?

Speaker 4 If they said yes, I'd say, then I'm in. I wouldn't even have to read it.
But what I couldn't get used to was the video games because they were for 16 and older and people did die.

Speaker 4 I mean, there was, I'm looking at it going, can we say this?

Speaker 4 Much more

Speaker 4 sophisticated than the early stuff. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
But I want to ask you a question, Sean. Yeah,

Speaker 4 because one of the things I miss about living in New York, because we had an apartment there for 19 19 years, is seeing theater. And I would have loved to have seen you play Oscar Levant.

Speaker 4 Because I could see it. I could see your face morphing into that character.

Speaker 2 Oh, so long Oscar was such a good. Oh, dude.

Speaker 4 And when I was a kid, I mean,

Speaker 4 in the summertime, I could stay up past my bedtime and watch Twilight Zone and Dick Van Dyke and all the shows I loved.

Speaker 4 And I saw, I used to watch Jack Parr and Steve Allen, and Oscar Levant fascinated me as a kid because he was effortlessly witty, but he had all these ticks and

Speaker 4 nervous ticks and the smoking and all of it.

Speaker 2 And I thought,

Speaker 2 well, you know,

Speaker 2 I thought you would.

Speaker 1 I'm going to do it again in London next summer, but just for a limited time, if you find yourself out that way.

Speaker 4 I'll keep that in mind. I'll keep that in mind.

Speaker 2 Sean, what a mind blow if you go and you're doing a play that you want a Tony for, which again, sorry. Just so quick.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You want a Tony for, and then you get to go and you do it on the west end of London.
Yeah. And you've just invited Mark

Speaker 2 Hamill. I know, to come crazy.

Speaker 2 No, it's true, Mark. This is big for him.
This will be a big circle. This is huge.
It's big for anybody, but it's big.

Speaker 4 I had a rule

Speaker 4 with a stage manager. I said, don't tell me who's out front.
Because

Speaker 4 what happened was I came in and everyone said, you know who's in the audience? Jackie Gleason.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I thought, oh,

Speaker 4 because Harrigan and Hart had been pitched to Gleason and Carney in the 60s, and it didn't happen for whatever reason.

Speaker 4 But he, you know, he's really familiar with that era and that music and all of it. So, I mean, it was something I wish I had not known because you want to be totally there.

Speaker 4 You don't want to be thinking, oh, what did Jackie think of that?

Speaker 2 Right, right, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 And sometimes, you know,

Speaker 1 you can't help it because other cast members will be like, did you hear Meryl Streeps in the audience? Yeah, I mean, it's terrible.

Speaker 4 So, I mean, they would tell me when I could come off, they'd hand me a note and I'd see, you know, who was there. But

Speaker 4 that must have been

Speaker 4 probably easier for you to do Levant than doing someone as recognizable as Jerry Lewis. And you just killed him.

Speaker 2 Oh, thanks. You know what? You know what? He was, let me put it this way.
My review was it was Oscar Levant, just as I remembered him. Oh, God.
That's what my dad wrote.

Speaker 1 Okay, so anyway.

Speaker 2 So I can't believe you remember that.

Speaker 4 Did Will and Jason meet on Arrested Development? Is that where you guys were? Yeah, we did.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we did, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 And by the way, I'm still mad they canceled that. Everything I like gets canceled.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 And I hold grudges for, I'm still mad they canceled Square Pegs, and that was 1982.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God, remember that? Oh, my God. Yeah, Buffalo Bill.

Speaker 3 Sarah Jessica Hart never would have done Sex in the City.

Speaker 2 There you go.

Speaker 4 Buffalo Bill with Dabney Coleman.

Speaker 2 Boy and she.

Speaker 2 Kalucci's department. Mark, I got a question for you.
When you said

Speaker 2 you had done the pilot, you got fired from Aid is Enough. Is that what happened?

Speaker 2 Or you got reduced?

Speaker 4 No, they just, they redid it with, like I say,

Speaker 4 a different father. Right.

Speaker 1 Well, that's, we call that fired. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah, sure.
I was fired. But what year, like, how soon after that did Star Wars happen?

Speaker 4 Well, I think, yeah, it was probably six months later or something.

Speaker 2 So what's crazy about it is the reason I bring it up, and I've talked about this before, is six months before I got the pilot for arrested development that changed my life, I got let go from a show.

Speaker 2 They replaced my character. Actually, they just wrote him out.
And at the time, I was like, oh, I was a series regular on a sitcom. I was going to make money and all this kind of shit.

Speaker 2 And I got so bad. And six months later, I didn't know that the universe had made space for me to have, to do the thing that would change my life.
Oh, see? And so it's very somehow.

Speaker 2 I didn't become a global superstar the way you did, but

Speaker 2 still, it like was the thing that really propelled me and gave me, you know, a career.

Speaker 4 I had a similar thing happen. I got a part on the Texas Wheelers with Jack Elam.
You know that cockeyed character actor from Westerns?

Speaker 4 Now, when he did support your local sheriff, support your local gunfire, then he got to show his comedy chops. And this pilot was an irreverent, it was like the anti-Waltons.

Speaker 4 Gary Busey was the

Speaker 4 titular head of the family because Jack comes back in the pilot having been in jail for stealing a car or whatever. But my character, Doobie, Doobie Wheeler,

Speaker 2 was

Speaker 4 what I loved about it was

Speaker 4 he was hilarious, but he did, he was so serious about himself. He took himself very seriously, thought he was a womanizer, even though he was a virgin, all these things.

Speaker 4 It was really for its time in 1974. I remember Time or the New York Times said possibly the finest bucolic comedy since Tobacco Road.

Speaker 4 And I said, oh man, not only is this a breakout part, but it's a comedy part. Because the most part I I was playing real straightforward high school students and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 So I was really jazzed and it came out and we made 13 episodes. It got canceled after four episodes.
And I was devastated because I said, I'm not going to get another good part like this.

Speaker 4 I just don't see it happening. I was really, really depressed.
But the upshot is if that had run, then I wouldn't have been able to do Star Wars.

Speaker 2 Exactly. That's my point.

Speaker 3 We would have had Freddie Krueger out there swinging around a lightsaber.

Speaker 2 I mean, and that would have been, imagine all the scratch marks on Vader's case.

Speaker 4 Actually, it would have been Will Seltzer.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 And Terry Nunn from, she was in a band.

Speaker 4 Oh, I can't remember. Yeah, Terry Nunn.
Terry Nunn. She was in, not Joy Division.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 You Google it.

Speaker 4 But, I mean, it was,

Speaker 4 like I say, it was cast as a set. There was no mixing and matching.
Right.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 3 You came as a package. Berlin.

Speaker 2 She's the singer from Berlin.

Speaker 4 That's it. The band, Berlin.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
You know, Mark,

Speaker 1 I have, as I always say with my guests that I bring on, that I have 7,000 questions.

Speaker 1 But I wanted to, you know, we got to let you go because it's been an hour and we promised we'd only have you for an hour here. So, so the, you know.

Speaker 1 All the stuff I wanted to ask you about just like, you know, coming back to the Force Awakens and what was that with J.J. Abrams.
Anyway, we'll talk about that at dinner sometime, hopefully.

Speaker 1 But I watched Fall of the House of Usher. I thought you were incredible.
You have The Life of Chuck coming out on Netflix, which looks so good.

Speaker 1 You have The Long Walk, another that Stephen King movie that comes out in 2025, which is fucking, that looks incredible.

Speaker 1 And you've been getting all these accolades for the Wild Robot, the Hogan.

Speaker 4 I'm in the new SpongeBob Square Pants.

Speaker 2 You're in the new SpongeBob Square Pants.

Speaker 2 Have you seen Wild Robot? I mean, it's funny that we should bring it up now that we're wrapping up. I have.
I've seen it.

Speaker 2 It's so great. I've heard it fantastic.
It's so great.

Speaker 4 I read the book. This book by Peter Brown.
There's a reason it was the number one bestseller in the New York Times and won all these awards. It is so perfect that I thought, please don't mess this up.

Speaker 4 If they can capture even 20% of the charm of this book, we're on a winner. And they kept the illustrations the exact same as in the book.
The cast is beyond great.

Speaker 2 I was reading the book to the kids.

Speaker 4 But it's so effortless and it's so meaningful in this time about tolerance and joining together for the greater good.

Speaker 2 That's where they lost me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, to be honest. If I'm being real, that's where they lost me.

Speaker 4 It seemed very timely, you know, given what we're going through.

Speaker 1 It's a huge hit and it's like getting recognized, which is great.

Speaker 2 It's very, it's really, really lucky. I'm so happy.

Speaker 4 Mark, I just say, just for me,

Speaker 3 you're such a delight. And I'm so excited that you're such a delight because

Speaker 3 myself, like so many people my age, you're such a part of just who we are and who we wanted to be.

Speaker 3 And the fact that you have maintained such a, such a kindness and a warmth and a decency in your, in your personal willingness is just

Speaker 3 such a relief. And thank you for

Speaker 4 saying that. But I have to tell you, these people, when they come up to you, you know, and talk about it, they put it.

Speaker 4 in such personal terms, you know, that it helped me get through my mother's, my father's divorce or, you know, whatever it is,

Speaker 4 I never get tired of it. It's like, oh, no, let's not talk about that again.
I want to hear what they have to say. You know, I think at this point, since I'm sort of

Speaker 4 soft focus on the details, you know, because I haven't seen it that much. And really, Luke had a light presence in the sequels.
He did a silent cameo in the first one and a cameo in the last one.

Speaker 4 So I only had that middle part. But what I'm saying is

Speaker 4 it's something that I don't take for granted. And I think how lucky I am because people say, oh, aren't you sorry that you're remembered for nothing? But

Speaker 4 Luke, when in my life. Oh my God.
I never expected to be remembered for anything.

Speaker 2 I just wanted a jump. For nothing.
I mean,

Speaker 2 what an absurd thing if anybody actually says that. What an absolutely absurd fucking thing is.

Speaker 3 The most famous film in the history of industry.

Speaker 2 And like you said, it's that connection. And I'm going to echo what Jason said for a kid who grew up in Toronto and saw it the first time at the

Speaker 2 Pleasant Theater on Mount Pleasant

Speaker 2 in Toronto, in the city, for me to be here all these years later talking to you, the impact

Speaker 2 that what you did. You just listen to is just a lot of people.
And then on top of it, you're a great dude is

Speaker 2 really something that I'm doing.

Speaker 4 And I appreciate Sean mentioning Follow the House of Usher because I'm used to doing really bizarre and atypical roles in animation.

Speaker 4 This is the first time Mike Flanagan asked me to do a character that would have been routine in animation on camera.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was great. Because I thought, here's this guy

Speaker 4 who is the soulless, evil sociopath. Naturally, they thought of me.

Speaker 2 Sure.

Speaker 4 I'm so grateful to Mike Flanagan.

Speaker 3 But we watched it.

Speaker 1 I just love that.

Speaker 1 You knocked it out of the park. I loved you in that part.

Speaker 2 It was so unexpected and absolutely thrilling to watch.

Speaker 4 And it was really one of those things where...

Speaker 4 When I read it, I thought, how am I going to do this? I usually have a slight concept of what is required of your character to make the whole thing work. And it was a huge ensemble.

Speaker 4 Mike does these wonderful,

Speaker 4 you know,

Speaker 2 haunting of hill house, haunting the blind manner, midnight mass.

Speaker 4 So I was a huge fan of his and I thought, even though I don't know how to do this, if he thinks

Speaker 4 I can do it, then by gosh, I'm going to do it. But it was really scary because when I was flying up Vancouver, I still had no idea.
And little by little, his wardrobe helped me pick out his wardrobe.

Speaker 4 As I said to the hair people, this guy wants to get out of bed in the morning just draw his with one swipe of the towel so cut it short enough so it just lays down it doesn't stick up just lies down then they found the glasses they found the hat and the last thing that came which was really interesting because we didn't discuss it but we were doing a scene in the Roderick and Madeline usher's office

Speaker 4 and I said how do I convey that this guy is completely dead inside

Speaker 4 And I just started talking like this.

Speaker 2 Well, I called him.

Speaker 4 He didn't call us back. I got a guy looking out for him.

Speaker 4 I didn't discuss it anytime, and I didn't say, I'm going to go in and do this voice. I just, in the moment, said, should I do it? And I did.

Speaker 4 And after we did a couple of setups, later in the day, Mike walked past me and just said, love the voice. Yes.
And I said, oh, I'm home.

Speaker 1 So great. You became a completely different person.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 4 And that's so rare. You know how exciting it is to let that someone thinks outside the box of what you're known for.
And I'm really lucky. And then again, he cast me in a small part in

Speaker 4 the life of Chuck, which again, he said, I'm going to send you the script based on a Stephen King novella.

Speaker 4 And there's a part for you in it. And blah, blah, blah.
So I'm expecting, okay, you got Stephen King, you've got Mike Flanagan. This is going to be the horror epic of all time.

Speaker 4 I'm telling you guys, it is the sweetest. poignant, warm story of a boy named Chuck at four different stages of his life.
He grows up to be Tom Hiddleston, but it's so atypical of both of them.

Speaker 4 And I said to them when we made it, I said to Trevor Macy, the producer, I said, I don't know how we're going to promote this because it's indescribable. I mean, you have to see it to get it.

Speaker 2 I can't wait to see it.

Speaker 4 It's amazing. And, you know, I saw it at his house once, just in a little room.
But when I saw it at the Toronto Film Festival with an audience, it was a revelation because

Speaker 4 it wasn't in competition, but it was voted favorite film

Speaker 4 because the audience becomes such a part of it that things that you didn't expect to get reactions got reactions. They laughed, they applauded, people were in tears.
I mean, it's really special.

Speaker 3 What's that one called?

Speaker 4 It's called The Life of Chuck, and it's told backwards. It's act three, act two, act one.
And I'm only in act one at the end of the picture,

Speaker 4 but Tom is great. This boy that plays him at age 12, Benjamin Payjack, remember that name, because this kid, he can sing, he dances, he played, he was the

Speaker 4 Ron Howard part in the revival of Music Man on Broadway, Hugh Jackman.

Speaker 2 And I'm telling you,

Speaker 4 I just,

Speaker 4 I wish you were my real grandson. He's just phenomenal.

Speaker 2 Wow,

Speaker 2 I can't wait to see it. Yeah, that.

Speaker 4 And that comes out in May.

Speaker 1 And then, and The Long Walk. I can't wait because that's.

Speaker 2 The long walk.

Speaker 4 And by the way, I read that. I'm thinking, ugh, this, because I always read the books before they've even seen the script.
It's excruciating. It's so horrible.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 A hundred teenage boys are forced to participate like in an annual thing where they have to walk at a constant pace or they get killed, right? Or something like that?

Speaker 4 Yeah, there's people ready to shoot them in the head. I mean, I'm telling you, it's so gross.
I thought, there's no way. I mean, I'll watch it maybe, but I can't do something like this.

Speaker 4 And again, my son read it and said, are you nuts? This is fantastic. You got to do it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 But just the violence, the gun violence alone. Now, luckily, it's now they do it CGI where you don't have to do squibs and everybody goes and

Speaker 4 gets cleaned up after each take because the bug goes flying. But I mean, it is really gross.

Speaker 2 I love that.

Speaker 1 I love it. Well, you got a lot of good stuff coming up.
And by the way, if you have any Star Wars memorabilia you want to get rid of, please send it over.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 4 when specifically are you going to do Oscar in London?

Speaker 1 July through September.

Speaker 2 Okay, barbecue.

Speaker 4 Like three months.

Speaker 1 Like, yeah, well, no,

Speaker 1 seven weeks.

Speaker 4 Okay, seven weeks. Seven weeks.

Speaker 1 The end of July to

Speaker 3 sounds like fun. Summer in England.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Mark, it's been an honor and a privilege to talk to you.

Speaker 1 I echo what these guys say. I just can't even believe I'm talking to you.

Speaker 2 This is

Speaker 2 crazy.

Speaker 4 When I listened to you guys do with Steve Martin and Martin Short, I said, well, after this, I've got to be a letdown. Nobody can top those two.

Speaker 2 No, no. It was one of the best.
You've been such a joy. You hit the peak, sir.
Such a joy. Incredible.

Speaker 3 Thank you for joining us, Mark. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 Thanks for vacuuming.

Speaker 1 If you ever get hungry, call me. I'll have a meal.

Speaker 2 Goodbye.

Speaker 4 Thanks, Mark. What a kind man you are.
Bye, buddy.

Speaker 2 Bye. Bye, man.

Speaker 2 Hey.

Speaker 3 Well, Sean, are you going to be all right? Do you need to mop? You need to towel off?

Speaker 1 Yes, I do. I was sweating a little bit.

Speaker 3 I mean, my lord.

Speaker 2 What? Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was supposed to come on for a long time.

Speaker 1 Now what? Just couldn't. Now what? I know.
I'm done.

Speaker 2 You said, Mark Howell, now, I mean, I guess Harrison, you can make your way through the cast. Of course, Harrison would be amazing.
Yeah, Carrie would be hard to book, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 She would like that.

Speaker 2 You want to say cut that now or no? She would love it.

Speaker 2 She would love that.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 I didn't even get to ask him about

Speaker 1 the fact that actors, we kind of measure our lives in in like milestone of jobs, right? We all talk, I was talking about like, I was doing this at that time and this.

Speaker 1 And for him, Star Wars never, there's no end to that milestone. Like he reprised Luke's on Mandalorian with Jon Trevreaux, you know, and

Speaker 1 like he is so open and willing to share, to not shy away from it and to embrace it, which I think is really important.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and he, he's, he, he loves the legacy of it. He's not frustrated that, that that was then.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I like that about him. You know, sometimes they play it down like, yeah, yeah, I did it.
You're like, no, no, no. It's a big situation.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he was the star of, is the star of the biggest film, most famous film in the history of our business. Totally.

Speaker 3 It's just a remarkable thing. And thank God he's proud of it.

Speaker 2 I know. Incredible.

Speaker 2 Which is your favorite film of all the films, Shawnee?

Speaker 1 Well, the Empire Strikes Back is pretty special.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I like, I'll live for all of them, but like, what was the thing about Empire Strikes Back?

Speaker 1 It was just, I don't know, it was a little more sophisticated. It was a little more there had there was.

Speaker 3 We'll turn it back into a buy here.

Speaker 2 There's a little bit of a. Oh, no, I was going to do a special one.
No, because I know a lot of people felt like that was,

Speaker 2 well, A New Hope is the first one. So it's like the first time you see it.
So it's amazing. Huge, huge.
Empire Strikes Back is an amazing cinematic feat. And people weren't, they didn't love as much.

Speaker 2 And this is a very special return of the Jedi

Speaker 2 Jed by Jed by

Speaker 2 I know but it's stars it's allowed for you

Speaker 2 all right five smart

Speaker 2 less

Speaker 2 smart

Speaker 2 less

Speaker 2 Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarve, and Bennett Barbico.

Speaker 2 Smart, less.

Speaker 1 What do these things have in common? Everyday wellness, natural self-care, and the seawater of coastal France? It's not a vacation. It's new drug-free affran extra strength saline.

Speaker 1 Drug-free affrin extra strength saline is like a little escape for your nose.

Speaker 1 It uses naturally sourced purified French sea water to clear everyday congestion like excessive mucus, allergens, and irritants.

Speaker 1 And it has an innovative two-in-one nozzle with gentle mist for daily hydration or jet stream to flush out your nasal passages. New drug-free Afrin Extra Strength Saline.

Speaker 1 You know those moments when you're trying to work through a complex problem and you can't stop until you found the answer? That's where Claude comes in.

Speaker 1 The AI for minds that don't stop at good enough.

Speaker 1 Whether you're planning something big, researching a topic you're curious about, or just trying to work through a problem, Claude matches your level of curiosity.

Speaker 1 Try Claude for free at claude.ai/slash smartless and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner.