"Jesse Eisenberg"

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Speaker 5 Hello, listeners.

Speaker 5 We've got something special for you today.

Speaker 4 What is it?

Speaker 5 It's a podcast called Smartless. What happened? Don't turn the channel.
We've got a real fun chat today, Jay.

Speaker 4 Who's on?

Speaker 5 We've got a special guest with the audience, you know what we're talking about,

Speaker 5 but two of us do not know.

Speaker 4 You got a really great one.

Speaker 5 Who are the two guys that don't know who the guest is? Stay tuned to find out.

Speaker 4 Welcome, Jason. Smartless.
Welcome to Smartless. Smart.

Speaker 4 I'm going to unmute our surprise guest feed. Just give us a little clap if you're with us.

Speaker 4 All right. Oh.
Jesus, that's a powerful clap.

Speaker 4 We were talking, Will, before you came on, that Jason, well, first of all, we did this photo shoot yesterday and Jason found one gray hair and pulled it out.

Speaker 4 Because people think that Jason dyes his hair and he does not dye his hair. I do sometimes, but you don't either, Will.
Yeah, he doesn't dye. I don't, but I have these.
It's unbelievable.

Speaker 4 I have these grays on my temple now.

Speaker 5 What are you going to do for those for the project coming up?

Speaker 4 Leave them. Keep it.
Yeah, man. Yeah, just keep it.
Exactly.

Speaker 5 Why would you try to trick someone into thinking that you're different than you are, Sean?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I'm not going to use.

Speaker 5 There's only one Sean Hayes in the world. Why would you pretend to be anyone else?

Speaker 4 We love Sean Hayes. And you look, by the way, Jason to bring it up.
You look great. You don't need to do it.

Speaker 5 What did I tell you yesterday? I know.

Speaker 5 You have the face of a 13-year-old. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah, wow.

Speaker 5 You'll never look old.

Speaker 4 I know. Okay.
I was going to make another joke about it. Some famous.

Speaker 5 I mean, look at how gorgeous Will Speck is with

Speaker 5 his gray hair. Look at how great he's

Speaker 4 white. Richard Ehrlich, the best realtor in Southern California.

Speaker 5 John Slattery, you know, the most handsome actor going.

Speaker 4 Richard Ehrlich.

Speaker 4 I'll do it. All right.
Maybe I'll let it go a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 5 All right. Apologies to the guest.
Here we come. Tighten up.

Speaker 4 Gang.

Speaker 5 Now, this isn't a great intro. It just doesn't fit what this guy does.
But I was rushing this morning. So today, we've got a fellow that's done, I apologize for the chainsaw outside my house.

Speaker 5 God damn it.

Speaker 4 We actually can't hear it. Good.

Speaker 5 So today, we have a fellow that's done more with his 41 years than we have with our combined 150. He's acted in film, television, been nominated for the most prestigious awards.
He's written plays.

Speaker 5 He's directed films. He's a father and a husband.
And he's here to tell us how he does it all. Gang, let's get to it.
It's Jesse Eisenberg.

Speaker 4 Come on, Jesse. Come on, Jesse.
Come on, Jesse.

Speaker 4 Hi, hi, hi. Hi.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for the introduction. Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 You're very nice to meet you.

Speaker 2 Sorry I clapped so loud. Thank you so much.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 You have large hands?

Speaker 2 Let's hear your. No, I think I was like, I think I didn't understand where I have to be in relation to this microphone.
You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. No, it's

Speaker 5 just, they just got to know that their mic. This is a new mic.

Speaker 2 I'm working with a new mic. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Do you do

Speaker 5 a lot of microphone work? Do you have a podcast?

Speaker 4 Everybody knows that.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. Nor do I do a lot of mic work.
I mainly use, you know, just like my headset. But today, you know, your podcast is worthy of this Rode NT USB mini.

Speaker 4 Stop trying to get free shit, Jesse. Yeah, we bought it right now.
You don't have to sell it. Look who's in.

Speaker 2 Even across the pond, I take my road.

Speaker 2 I'm in England. Oh, that's why that's.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Get ready to be showered with mic.

Speaker 4 Yeah, right, exactly.

Speaker 5 Now, are you

Speaker 5 damn it? You're in England doing what? Doing something else that is very good.

Speaker 2 You're in the dressing room of the like grand Graham Graham Norton chip.

Speaker 4 Are you really?

Speaker 2 This is not Chatty man right this is i'm doing a meta press junket i'm doing it from the press yes wow wait wait wait wait wait wait you're about to go out on a talk show and you're recording a podcast yeah i mean but this is good because i can stay in this kind of like self-indulgent place i could just talk about myself for the next 48 hours and i'll be okay

Speaker 4 you work so hard like i can only do one thing a day and the rest needs to be played here's here's an idea here's an idea just go with me and jesse you can you can throw this out if you'd like and and also welcome to smart list but i just want to say this

Speaker 4 Why don't we, the four of us, come up with a fake story for you to tell on the Graham Norton show that we will all be. Oh, yeah.
Right.

Speaker 4 Because he won't know now until it comes out, which is way later. Oh, go, go.

Speaker 2 So, okay, wait,

Speaker 2 this is like a prank pulled on me or him or what?

Speaker 4 On him or on the world. You're just going to be in on it.
It's just

Speaker 4 a fun little Easter egg that a couple months from now, people are. That's interesting.

Speaker 2 Do you want to do a whole story or should we do like a word?

Speaker 4 No, word. Or you could do a word or you could do that you actually both of your legs have been replaced.

Speaker 2 Let's do the word.

Speaker 5 This does bring up a good point.

Speaker 4 Will.

Speaker 4 Will, unless you've got something in mind here.

Speaker 5 Yeah, okay. It does bring up a good point

Speaker 5 that maybe Tracy is unaware of. Jesse Tracy is

Speaker 5 Sean's sister.

Speaker 4 She was not hip.

Speaker 5 Hip to all the business tree.

Speaker 4 The inside. She's not on the outside.
Sure.

Speaker 5 So for Tracy, before we do talk shows, you know, the nighttime set, you do what's called a pre-interview where you talk to the segment producer and you come up with stories and crap you're going to say and kind of work out your business.

Speaker 4 Which I imagine you've done, Jesse, for this show.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Not for us.
Yeah. There's a big pre-inventor.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. This one's a weird one.

Speaker 2 The one with this is weird. They're basically like, we're on with like, I'm with Kieran, who's in my movie.
And then like, I'm with Daniel Craig. You're on with other people.
And so

Speaker 5 the pre-interview.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And so the pre-interview with this one was like,

Speaker 2 Daniel was shooting in Italy. What was it like shooting in New Orleans 15 years ago on a movie? Basically, the the link is that we both didn't shoot a movie in New York City.

Speaker 2 And so, like, I realize the stories they're going for are just these incredibly tenuous links with the guests who have nothing in common.

Speaker 4 Which never.

Speaker 4 Yeah. You know what's funny is that both you, ironically, you, Kieran, and Daniel have all recently or all recently.

Speaker 5 So, it might have been the last three guests we've had on our show.

Speaker 4 No. Yeah.
Yeah. Is that true? Truly.
Well, that's the thing. That's the thing.
Well, that's Kieran. Kieran, wow.

Speaker 5 What a pain in the ass he is. Jesus.

Speaker 4 Jesus Christ.

Speaker 4 He's just an asshole, this guy. And he's so negative.

Speaker 5 Not cheery at all. No energy at all.
No hobbies.

Speaker 5 Nothing.

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 2 Wait, I can't tell if you're kidding because actually that does describe a version of him that I know.

Speaker 4 He's like the greatest. We love him.

Speaker 5 He said very nice things about you as well. We loved having him.

Speaker 4 Maybe it's something about the fact that everybody, that now

Speaker 4 that doing the Graham Norton show, you can't do it until you've done Smartless. I don't know.

Speaker 4 Yeah, work on it. No bad ideas.
No bad ideas. Something like that.

Speaker 2 Listen, I'll figure that out in the moment.

Speaker 4 Don't you worry.

Speaker 4 But literally, the order was Daniel, Craig, Kieran, and then you on our show. And now that's crazy that you're all on the same panel on that show.

Speaker 5 I just said, Sean.

Speaker 2 No, I know but we can continue to analyze. Yeah, was that literally the last?

Speaker 5 No, no, it wasn't literally the last three.

Speaker 4 I think it was. No, it was.

Speaker 4 Never mind.

Speaker 2 You know, Kieran is like the... Oh, he's like the biggest fan of your show.

Speaker 2 And just a very uncomfortable thing happened once is where he told me, we were on a plane, and he said, like, he loves your show so much he said except one episode and he told me the name of the guest and it actually does escape my memory now I forgot who he said was like a not a good guest and then I ran into that person and I was so nervous that I had this information in my head that they were the worst guests on smartlist and so I said to them Kieran said you were the best guest on smartlist tell me when they were like oh really

Speaker 4 and you don't remember who it is I don't remember who it is

Speaker 5 All right, wait, let me get to my questions.

Speaker 4 I've got great questions.

Speaker 5 I'm an incredible interviewer.

Speaker 4 By the way, welcome.

Speaker 4 It's so nice to meet you. I've been such a fan.
Me too. Oh, my God.
Me too. Me too, of course.

Speaker 4 Jesse, we met Batman.

Speaker 2 We met each other, Will, yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Wait, what? Where were we?

Speaker 2 It was like a, it was at a, well, it was in LA at like a studio, but we were doing like a promotional video with Jimmy Kimmel for Batman.

Speaker 4 Yes. Yes.
Yes.

Speaker 4 Do you remember that? It was so weird. Yes.
It was so weird. With Ben Affleck.

Speaker 2 That's right. It was like a reverse engineered idea.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's right. It was like they were meeting at a party and I was playing the bad guy.
And yeah, you came in afterwards. And I think Jimmy Kimmel came in afterwards as Batman or something.

Speaker 2 I can't remember it.

Speaker 4 He came in.

Speaker 4 He was saying Batman and Superman.

Speaker 4 And then.

Speaker 5 And then Lego Batman.

Speaker 4 And then I came in and said, Lego Batman. And then, and then Ben said something like,

Speaker 4 you're not really supposed to be a real Batman. And I said, well, you might want to check the box office.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Here's what I was left with.
And tell me if you agree with me on that, Jesse.

Speaker 4 Sure.

Speaker 4 I was really impressed with Jimmy Kimmel's acting.

Speaker 4 I thought he did a great job that day. Really?

Speaker 4 And I told him that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I would hope so. Yeah.
That's not exactly the thing I walked away with. I can't remember.

Speaker 4 Was he really good?

Speaker 2 Wait, like, how so? Like, like, is he genuine?

Speaker 4 Well, in that, I guess, look, the bar was low because I thought he would be

Speaker 4 fucking terrible.

Speaker 2 Oh, God. And he was engaged.
He was like genuine.

Speaker 4 He was engaged. He's like, he seemed like he was really listening in the moment.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 I guarantee you he's a great actor.

Speaker 5 You know, you can just tell with some people that they just kind of know the way they come across and therefore they're able to sort of calibrate that and guide that, you know, and incorporate lines into that.

Speaker 4 Like, I bet he'd be a great actor. But Jesse, when did you start?

Speaker 4 We all know you as a very accomplished, as I said, very accomplished actor. And I am also, like Sean and Jason, I'm as a very big fan of your acting.
I think you're really, really good at at winning.

Speaker 4 Oh God, me too, of course. But as a writer,

Speaker 4 when was that that you did you always write or is that something that came later?

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 I've been writing like plays like in New York for like 20 years,

Speaker 2 but this is like, and I've had like some, you know, some popular plays or whatever, but like nothing to like this level. Well, I had two plays that were going to go to Broadway.

Speaker 2 They were both canceled. the week before we put out the press announcement for different weird reasons.

Speaker 2 So like this is the first thing that I'm really getting like more attention and it's quite surreal because I feel like, well, I've been doing the same thing for 20 years, but people like this one and it makes me wonder where I went wrong 20 years ago.

Speaker 4 Wait, tell me what it is. Tell me what it is.

Speaker 4 What is?

Speaker 4 You're doing a play right now?

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no.

Speaker 5 Now I'm doing it. A real movie that films.

Speaker 4 I thought you were saying you were.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, no. I

Speaker 2 gave up on the medium entirely because it gave up on me. And so, no, no, just now like I wrote a thing that's like now people like it and they're saying, well, you know, it has this unusual tone.

Speaker 2 I want to to say, I've been doing that for so long, but no one liked it. But anyway, so, um, yeah, yeah, and before that, I was just writing like joke writing.

Speaker 2 I wanted to write, you know, sketch comedy when I was younger. No, really?

Speaker 4 Really? Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 Yeah, when I was 17, I put together like a packet for Saturday Night Life. Actually, when I was 16, I wrote a script about Woody Allen, and it got sent to him.

Speaker 2 It was about like a fictional version of him now at 16, which is what I was changing his name to Woody Allen.

Speaker 2 And it got like sent through various channels to his lawyers, who then sent me a cease and desist letter.

Speaker 4 Oh my God.

Speaker 5 But then you ended up doing three films of them. Did it come up?

Speaker 2 I did movies. It came up once.
We were on like a press junket. He's so uninterested in anybody else.
You know, so like, I don't mean that as a criticism.

Speaker 2 He's just like, he's just like, basically, I knew what would happen is that somebody during press would bring it up because it's like a cute story that's on the internet.

Speaker 2 And he would go, oh, that's interesting. I never didn't know that and would never think about it again.
And I knew I can go up to him and say, hey, that was weird, right?

Speaker 2 He would just have no, he just doesn't have any interest in stuff like that. I think he's just been like so famous and celebrated for so many years that he's uninterested in like the public persona.

Speaker 2 And so no, he didn't care about that. And we didn't share a nice laugh or a drink.

Speaker 4 I love the idea that you're like waiting, waiting to get a response to your submission and the responses of season.

Speaker 5 Yeah, but it's also like you bring up like, hey, so you sent me a lawyer letter. What about that?

Speaker 5 I don't know anything about that.

Speaker 2 Well, the lawyer is his producer. Like I got to know the lawyer.
I'm sure there were 10,000 letters. Like they were sending that every day to everybody who wanted to make a movie about him.

Speaker 2 But I remember I was, you know, I was, I got home from school one day and my dad said, we have good news and bad news. I was like, what's, he's like, what's, I said, what's the good news?

Speaker 2 He's like, we heard from Woody Allen.

Speaker 4 I was like, what's the bad news?

Speaker 2 He's like, you might have to get a lawyer. And he sent me a thing and I framed it right away.

Speaker 4 It was so exciting. You know,

Speaker 4 it's pretty good.

Speaker 5 So when you're writing a play versus a film, to a ding-dong like me, it would seem that. Writing a play is easier because it's just dialogue.

Speaker 5 And a film, you've got to incorporate what the visual component is going to be as well well and sort of imply some of the,

Speaker 5 you know, the inner thinking of the characters as well and all that.

Speaker 5 Is that fair to say that writing a screenplay is more difficult?

Speaker 2 I mean, no, I mean, I think it depends on like the project. And like, you know,

Speaker 2 you know, you could make the same argument that you have to keep people's attention for two hours on one set. And, you know, there's something incredibly difficult about that.

Speaker 2 Whereas a movie, you can have music come in and you could have close-ups and you could re-edit it to within an inch of its life and it could turn into something that's test screened a bunch of times.

Speaker 2 So like, no, I mean, my plays have been basically like four scenes total, so like a half-hour scenes, and um, you know, so like half-hour scenes for a two-hour play. And, um, I like that.

Speaker 2 My mind works in that way to like keep scenes going. So, my struggle with like movie writing is to just make sure the scenes are not seven movies.
Holy watch.

Speaker 4 JB, he just clowned you, dude. What, why? Why?

Speaker 4 You just got totally clowned because you're so clowned.

Speaker 5 I didn't even realize.

Speaker 4 You didn't even realize, Dark. I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 But I thought there was, I was clowning him, but I thought there was a gentle,

Speaker 4 I was doing a gentle clown.

Speaker 4 You were clowning him with a baby wipe.

Speaker 5 Speaking of clowns, your mother, your mother started another silly internet thing, you know, because I do deep research on Wikipedia.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, it sounds like you read that first paragraph.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, it's real clowns.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Fucking Jesse. I want Jesse to come once a week and just come in, set JB straight

Speaker 4 and then be like, I got to go.

Speaker 2 He read the snippet from the Google search engine, you know, where a million things come up. And he read the snippet.

Speaker 4 Now click on the link.

Speaker 5 The directing thing, are you loving the directing thing

Speaker 5 as much? And I apologize, I bet you've gotten this question a thousand times. Are you loving it more or less or the same as writing and acting?

Speaker 2 Maybe a little less, only because it's such a managerial thing, as you know.

Speaker 2 Well, I don't know actually what your experiences have been, but for me, it just felt like I was just aware constantly on set of somebody's plane maybe being delayed. Like my experience.

Speaker 2 And when I'm writing, I'm sitting in a library by myself and acting. It's like kind of an emotional private experience that you can have.

Speaker 2 And then I just remember, like, I've spent the day thinking about this person's hair person flying in from England. And if there was rain in England, they were going to be late.

Speaker 2 And then I don't think the actor would come to set. And I was like, this was the least creative thought I've had in my life, let alone understand the movie.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Exactly.
That's fucking interesting. That's a

Speaker 4 great point. Right, right, right, right.
Is that what it ring true for you?

Speaker 5 Yes, it can, but then I just make sure I hire correctly, you know, when it comes to line producers and ADs and stuff.

Speaker 5 Their sweet spot is management.

Speaker 2 Right, that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 Do you ask JB, do you ask them to protect you from information that you?

Speaker 5 No, I actually want to hear about it all. I just don't want to have to fix any of it.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Right.

Speaker 4 I get that. Wow.
I get that.

Speaker 2 Oh, so you don't take on for no apparent reason at all the anxiety of their jobs?

Speaker 5 I do to the extent that it affects affects the harmony on the set. That's the part I get really passionate about.
Everybody deserves to have a great work experience.

Speaker 2 Yeah, me too.

Speaker 4 Jesse, never having met you before,

Speaker 4 but I've seen tons of your work.

Speaker 4 Do you think I should dye my hair? Is that your question?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Do you think I heard about the sides?

Speaker 2 Sean, you look amazing. You look awesome.
Thank you.

Speaker 4 Yes. Yes.
Sweet little baby.

Speaker 2 Listen, I was sitting there in silence just evaluating all of your temples, and I think you all are great in your different ways.

Speaker 5 I'm in the, my piece is getting washed, so I've got the lid on you.

Speaker 4 Your piece is getting washed. What is that, Jay? Is that a hood or what?

Speaker 5 Yeah, it's a shitty hood. There we go.
Oh, it's a hood.

Speaker 4 Oh, look at that.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's shorter than I thought.

Speaker 4 Okay, yes.

Speaker 4 So I'm going to make a guess about you, and you tell me if I'm way off or not. Capricorn.
You speak.

Speaker 4 You seem, I've seen interviews. I've seen your work.
You seem extremely intelligent.

Speaker 4 You're very cerebral.

Speaker 4 And you speak very quickly. Which I seem.
Okay, sorry, keep going. Cerebral.
And so am I right in guessing that if that one of your pet peeves is people that can't keep up with

Speaker 4 the pace of your intelligence? Oh, God, not at all.

Speaker 2 No, I feel mortified and I feel mortified and pretentious when I open my mouth. No, I.

Speaker 4 Oh, really?

Speaker 2 Yes, I'm aware that I probably sound like annoying to many.

Speaker 4 No, no, you sound like real music. How dare you?

Speaker 5 It's classical music. Turn it up.

Speaker 4 It's classical. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's all I listen to. Yeah, no, okay.
Because I do, because I get, I have a, I have a short fuse. If I'm, if I'm like focused on something and somebody can't keep up with me, I have a short fuse.

Speaker 4 Oh, God, no, I don't.

Speaker 4 But you suffer fools.

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 I have

Speaker 2 deep shame and self-hatred. I assume everybody else in the world is like kind of right.

Speaker 5 But what about, how about said differently? What about people who don't work as hard as you

Speaker 5 at a given moment, especially

Speaker 5 when you're directing or when you're having to oversee a bunch of stuff and you notice someone's just kind of dogging it. Like, does that

Speaker 2 just haven't felt that way ever? I just feel like

Speaker 2 so indebted to that anybody's coming to the set and waking up at six in the morning, and they probably have a dog that's being left home alone.

Speaker 2 No, I just don't ever feel that way, but I think I'm just encumbered with guilt.

Speaker 2 So, like, I just wouldn't, I thought I wouldn't allow that thought to come into my mind because I would feel, well, why am I worthy of having that? You know, okay, got it.

Speaker 5 And we will be right back.

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Speaker 5 And now, back to the show.

Speaker 4 Did you grow up in the city? Did you grow up in New York?

Speaker 2 I grew up in Queens and New Jersey, so I'm never in Manhattan. Oh, you did?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 That's why I have this neutral accent.

Speaker 4 Do you live in New York now in the East Coast? Yeah, I live there in Chelsea. Be careful.
You do.

Speaker 5 What do you mean, he's getting close to the address? Don't give it away.

Speaker 4 No, he said Chelsea. He said Chelsea.
Yeah, I can tell you.

Speaker 5 Don't give him a street.

Speaker 4 And no, I'm just saying, do you want to have lunch at Cafe Clooney next week?

Speaker 4 That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 4 I'm going to drink you for a second. Yeah.
Why not? Yeah, we could do that. Yeah.
It's a great place. I'm going to be there if you'd like to have lunch.
I'm going to get

Speaker 4 the table. Let me ask you about this.

Speaker 5 The amount of focus it takes to write, I've done it once, and it was a very long time ago, and it was very humbling. And I've got a massive amount of respect for folks that can fill a blank page.

Speaker 5 Once you go through that process and you've really, you know, grinded away at the wordsmith of it all, and then an actor starts to play with that dialogue on set and starts to kind of go off a little bit and round the edges and you know paraphrase a little here or there does that are you good with that or does it make you crazy and then i've got a follow-up to this and i think you know where i'm going um but go ahead oh um yeah so no as a like again my background is playwriting and no one changes the words ever because when you do a play

Speaker 2 i mean as you get written up i'll know well also yeah that but also like most playwrights are dead so you're just not

Speaker 2 theater actors are not in the habit of changing dialogue you know um and then so this is my second movie and um yeah i just yeah it doesn't it rings weird to my ear so i don't like it but you know occasionally somebody's so brilliant like kieran as you met he's so clever and quick and spontaneous so you know he would sometimes change a word here and there and it was always really good you wouldn't you wouldn't like come in you wouldn't come in after taking go huh okay all right it's just a script interesting i'm just gonna double check yeah so i'm just gonna leave it right in front of you just yeah just to say because we don't have a coaster you must have gotten ignored.

Speaker 4 You must have gotten ignolled. You really different.
Exactly.

Speaker 5 So then,

Speaker 5 was it onerous to you to do to work

Speaker 5 on

Speaker 5 social network with Aaron Sorkin's stuff, who is somewhat famously,

Speaker 5 you know, an um versus uh is

Speaker 5 sometimes a problem.

Speaker 4 Like there, you have to really stay straightforward.

Speaker 4 Is that true?

Speaker 5 Was that your experience on that film? And if so,

Speaker 5 was it a hassle?

Speaker 2 That wasn't my experience, but I don't also think I tried to change anything. It wasn't like I had a clever idea that was like funnier than Aaron Sorkin's joke.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 But just in an effort to make it sound sort of just naturalistic and

Speaker 2 that's really interesting. My character didn't talk in a naturalistic way.
He was kind of like this almost robotic presence. And so actually, for me, it felt like this is perfect.

Speaker 2 In fact, the gamesmanship of adhering to this exact thing was part of the character.

Speaker 4 I just saw it, by the way, like two, like last year for the first time. Oh, really? In that film.
Yeah, it was so good.

Speaker 5 And you got an Academy Award nomination for that.

Speaker 4 Yeah. That's right.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 So good, right. Sean's not the official review.
Sorry, because I'm just going to like

Speaker 4 make sure to log it. Hey,

Speaker 4 well, because I was like,

Speaker 4 I think Sean did it because

Speaker 4 go ahead, Sean.

Speaker 4 So it's a so good ellipsis. I think I avoided it because I knew there was going to be a lot of talking in it.
And then, but then I watched it and I was like, oh, I wasn't, this is so fucking funny.

Speaker 4 I mean, this is Jesse's interview, but I got it on, but I'm having a tough time escaping from. I avoided it because I knew there'd be a lot of talking in it.

Speaker 2 Fucking go down that.

Speaker 4 I mean, if ever there were an example of why we're living in idiocracy, this is it right now.

Speaker 4 It's a fucking blight on the entire civilization. People like you have fucking encouraged us to know we're in this fucking hole we can't get out of

Speaker 4 because you want to drool in front of of the fucking television. Hey, Jesse.
Anyway, having seen,

Speaker 4 having been in the social network, what did it,

Speaker 4 what impact did it have on you in your regard to social media, to Instagram specifically, social media in general,

Speaker 4 then a few years later, and now?

Speaker 2 I mean, I never did it and don't do it, but I don't know. I feel weird like putting more stuff about myself online.
Like it's already kind of embarrassing.

Speaker 2 You You know, like it's weird to be a public person in general. So I didn't want to go online.
But that's mostly has to do with my just complete discomfort with myself.

Speaker 2 And so like I didn't want to like talk about, you know, I guess things. But, you know, I don't know.
I'm suspicious of it for so many other reasons too.

Speaker 2 And, you know, the movie depicts like this person creating it who does not have like what I would consider like kind of healthy social relationships.

Speaker 2 And so like if this product is the extension of this person's social behavior, then this is not great. Aaron Ross Powell,

Speaker 4 yeah, that's a really good way to put it.

Speaker 4 In effect,

Speaker 4 that this person's behavior, this person's outlook on human relationships is now being projected

Speaker 4 as

Speaker 4 a mode of living and as a as a mode of people interacting.

Speaker 2 But think about it this way too. Like we used to interact like in kind of ways that are kind of mushy.

Speaker 2 You know, you would make a weird joke and the person wouldn't react the way, so you wouldn't make that joke again, or you would find that somebody has the same sense of humor.

Speaker 2 And like what relationships get reduced to like on like line, and forgive me because I'm not on these things, but this is my kind of cynical like attitude towards it, is like, we like the same band and so it hooks us up and everything.

Speaker 2 And that's essentially like the character I was playing. could

Speaker 2 interact with people like that on this very much like, we both like this band. Let's stand here and talk about it.
And like,

Speaker 2 that's the way the thing works too. It recommends this person to you.
Or, you know, if you're dating, it recommends this person to you.

Speaker 2 And it just takes out like the squishy humanness that we have in our lives outside of the internet.

Speaker 4 However,

Speaker 5 I mean, because

Speaker 5 you speak, you've spoken before, you've spoken already

Speaker 5 in this episode about your,

Speaker 4 you know.

Speaker 5 Not to belittle it, to be honest, it's charming with your self-effacing sort of, you know, that you are comfortable with yourself. And like, I get it.

Speaker 5 We all are. But I feel like these social media things are meant to be a tool to actually help folks that

Speaker 5 are that wouldn't get out to a bar and start.

Speaker 5 So I'm wondering if, you know. No, no, I'm sure you're right.

Speaker 2 I truly know nothing about this because I'm not on it. I haven't had the experience of being on it.

Speaker 4 No, no. I think that that, Jason, I think that there is, that is what it's sold.
as. Right, right.
And I and I think that in its in its best version,

Speaker 4 were people actually looking to do that and it wasn't used as a way to

Speaker 4 enrich people, then that's what it would do. Unfortunately,

Speaker 4 what has become is it's designed to keep you engaged to sell ads. Now what it's done is it's designed to keep you opening the app

Speaker 4 so that your eyeballs will be exposed to advertisers. We all need advertisers.
I'm not,

Speaker 4 but it keeps us all employed. Of course.
That is its design. And it's not to keep people engaged.
And I think that there was a time that maybe that was the idea. And maybe that's what the social,

Speaker 4 when it was called the Facebook was about. But unfortunately, what it has become is become this thing that's become incredibly divisive.
And it is, and all it's done is reinforced, instead of...

Speaker 4 Instead of celebrating the similarities, it's reinforced the differences between people. It's had the opposite effect.
It's stunning. All these kinds of things.

Speaker 4 We're talking, you know, we talk about inclusion stuff, all these things that all they've done is help create these mini barriers between us all and said, I'm this and I'm this and I'm this and you're that.

Speaker 4 And we've created

Speaker 4 more division, I think. I don't know.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's my perspective, but my perspective is really as an outsider because I haven't been on it. But yeah, like that, it creates, you know, isolation, sectarianism, all this this stuff.

Speaker 4 Wait, just, yeah, are you on social media? No, no, no.

Speaker 4 I'm kidding. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
I'm actually,

Speaker 2 I'm actually live tweeting this whole thing.

Speaker 4 Like, going great.

Speaker 2 Sean said social network is so good.

Speaker 4 Thumbs up.

Speaker 5 Now, studying anthropology and social psychology in college, yes.

Speaker 4 Now, how

Speaker 5 did you Why did you study that when you knew you wanted to do what you're doing now? Or did you do it at the same time?

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, I was like, I went to college for 18 years before I got my degree because I would like go to a semester and then take off and work, you know, and then go back.

Speaker 2 And so I got that, like, I got my degree during the pandemic finally.

Speaker 2 Oh, you're.

Speaker 4 It took you 18 years. Exactly.

Speaker 2 It took me 18 years. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 Oh, way.

Speaker 2 Way, yeah, like the second 18 years of my life. Yeah, from 18 to 36.
And I chose anthropology because that was my wife's degree. She graduated like many, many years before.
So that was her degree.

Speaker 2 And I just wanted to, you know, have something to talk about with her.

Speaker 4 That's cool.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because I knew I wanted, because I

Speaker 2 wouldn't be in the arts. Yeah, otherwise she would not.

Speaker 5 Did you define anthropology for me?

Speaker 2 Yeah, anthropology is like the study of, and I'm using quotes, the other, you know, it's the study of other cultures, the study of other people.

Speaker 2 You know, what you learn from it is that like your culture is not superior to another culture, even if that culture is like, let's say, more poor or something.

Speaker 2 You know, you learn to kind of view cultures as their own

Speaker 2 value to

Speaker 2 the the effect that they have on each other um you know so so an anthropologist would go to study you know famously

Speaker 5 go to a samoan village margaret mead is a famous anthropologist go to a samoan village and live with them and study their ways and everything i literally asked somebody last night who has a master in in and uh in anthropology i i asked her to define the same same question last night she said something very similar and i said well what is the difference between that and sociology and she said the sociology is much more data-driven is that is that right is that fair Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 My dad's PhD is social psychology. And so he was studying basically like, you know, human behavior, irrespective of culture.
You know, it was about people interacting with each other. Gotcha.

Speaker 2 Anthropology really focuses on like cultures.

Speaker 4 Right, right, right. Wow.
So, so what, so, and, and you got your bachelor's or master's or I got my bachelor's degree.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's amazing. Bachelor's degree, and then your dad's got a PhD.
Yeah. This is an accomplished family.
Jay, what did you learn on the set of Ned and Stacey? I remember you did this episode.

Speaker 4 I learned how to scoop a bagel, you know?

Speaker 5 That's where I started really cutting the cards.

Speaker 4 So, Jesse, but first of all, by the time you're 65, you get your master's. But second,

Speaker 4 you, that's really funny.

Speaker 4 What, in your studies, what is the one kind of culture that you found the most fascinating or actually interacted with or whatever?

Speaker 4 Worst and least, and least,

Speaker 4 to be fair. That's the least fascinating culture.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. The most boring culture, you guys, is I'm doing top 10 worst cultures.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I would love if you only, you got on Instagram just so you can start posting things like the worst cultures. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And this one is boring, but also stupid. So, okay, this one, no, I mean, well, I kind of like,

Speaker 2 I did my like ethnography, which is like, you know, your big thesis.

Speaker 2 I did it on this, like, um, this restaurant in Chelsea that was like the last remaining authentic Latin American restaurant because everything else had been, you know, gentrified away.

Speaker 2 And this place was, but it was so, it was kind of a cheat because it was like down the block. And I got to eat there while I was doing my field research.

Speaker 2 But it was really interesting to see how this place was trying to survive against basically.

Speaker 4 So you do restaurants. I thought it was like cultures across the world.

Speaker 2 It is. This was cultural.

Speaker 2 It was

Speaker 2 my wife once in Nicaragua.

Speaker 4 Restaurant review, dudes.

Speaker 4 It was a restaurant.

Speaker 4 Yeah. No.

Speaker 4 Wait, what restaurant was it? We can always cut it out.

Speaker 2 It was called

Speaker 2 La Taza de Oro.

Speaker 2 It's not there anymore.

Speaker 2 Yeah. We published the thesis actually to Yelp, so it was interesting to get to publish.

Speaker 4 No, no, no, I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 not every student gets their work published, but for me, it went, you know, it was in the bottom.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 4 when I got my PhD from Food Pornette on Instagram.

Speaker 4 Exactly. Fucking.

Speaker 4 All right.

Speaker 5 Now, what about, let's talk about, what about, was Squid and the Whale the thing that sort of launched launched you

Speaker 4 a bit

Speaker 2 No, I was in a movie before that when I was like 18 Roger Dodger right out of yeah, Roger Dodger right out of high school. Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 And it was like It was like the difference between having an acting career or not like it was literally the difference because like my I was supposed to go to college that year and my dad like I pled with him.

Speaker 2 I was like, please just read the script. It's so good.
And my dad read it and said, okay, you could take off a semester and do this movie.

Speaker 2 And the movie was like not a hit, but was like popular amongst, you know, people who like movies.

Speaker 5 And then that meant, again, god bless wikipedia uh that meant no nyu for you but the new school when you were done with it yes yes oh my god which paragraph you've been up to i've been up for at least a calendar

Speaker 4 are you is that early career in school or are you on personal info it's their controversies because sometimes they mix it up you know what i mean like sometimes

Speaker 2 i think it's under cancellation

Speaker 5 um all right so then so you do roger dodger and you feel there's something

Speaker 4 can i just say it is a real, maybe I've mentioned this before, but it's a real testament to who you are in this world when your filmography has its own page on Wikipedia. Have you ever noticed that?

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. What does that mean? That is something else.
Well, he's going to somebody's filmography and it goes, and there's a little bit transfers here?

Speaker 4 There's a link that has its own page.

Speaker 4 Oh, is that what's happening here? That is the highest.

Speaker 2 That is the goal. That is the goal.

Speaker 2 You know, you've made it when you have to

Speaker 2 transfer.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 5 there's a feeling that is very tangible that it's like, oh, I think I might be able to make a career out of this

Speaker 5 based on this sort of newfound access and inclusion. Yes.

Speaker 2 Exactly, exactly. And like right after that movie, I got like offered another movie and it was to pay scale.
It was like a movie, I don't think it ever got made. It was probably like a $50,000 budget.

Speaker 2 But I remember going to my dad, like, I could get jobs. Like, I could literally just get jobs.

Speaker 2 Because before that, you know, I was auditioning for commercials and anything that I could possibly get an audition for and under studies and plays and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 So it felt like, oh, I can literally make a career and a possible living from this.

Speaker 5 Right. And then what was the next big job? Was it, was it Squid in the Whale?

Speaker 2 Yeah, actually, no, right before that, I did this movie Cursed with, it was Demention, and it was Dementia. So it was run by Bob Weinstein.
And this guy would, it was crazy.

Speaker 2 This guy, basically, it was a West Craven directed movie. And Bob Weinstein would just constantly scrap everything we'd done to the point where we shot, it was supposed to be a 55-day shoot.

Speaker 2 We shot 125 days because this guy, Bob Weinstein, who's not like, you know, a writer, you know, would just decided he wanted to change everything in the script. And it was crazy.
It was crazy.

Speaker 4 And fascinating to work with that.

Speaker 5 I wonder what he's up to right now. I think we know what his brother's doing, but wonder what

Speaker 4 probably his neck in lawsuits.

Speaker 4 What he's up to.

Speaker 2 I wanted to turn down the movie and he called me in for a meeting and he's threatened my career. And then he said, at the end, as I was leaving, he said, I know where you live.
I said, what?

Speaker 2 jesus christ and i was like are you kidding and he was like no no no she told me his casting director he goes no no no she told me where you live oh these guys wow

Speaker 2 what a duo i know unbelievable i when all the stuff came out with the the brother i was just like oh yeah i've been telling this story forever and people come sometimes can't believe it sounds so shocking and then of course my story was like nothing compared to you know yeah cute yeah yeah yeah

Speaker 4 um all right yeah you're you're like who knew it's just like a fun it's fun banter for a podcast yeah exactly exactly exactly not yeah yeah not like so now we're to squid in the whale with the with the great laura linney um the the incredible noah bomb back um did you uh

Speaker 5 and jeff daniels did you um did you did you learn a great deal from uh from mr bombback there with the writing and the directing with did that did that plant an early seed for you

Speaker 2 well it just like he was writing just stuff that amused him and and so that was the that was the trick it's like oh yeah you can write the things that you like and

Speaker 2 it'll translate, you know, hopefully.

Speaker 2 And the other main thing I learned was from Laura. And I don't know if she ever did this to you, probably, but she had a slap me in the movie.
Has she slapped you?

Speaker 4 Probably.

Speaker 4 Probably.

Speaker 2 Okay, so this is what she told me. Right before she slapped me, she said, do you know what the trick is to slap somebody in a movie?

Speaker 5 And I was like, no, please tell me. Thank you.
Tell me.

Speaker 4 Did she just whacked you? Surprise.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she goes, you look the person in the eye and then you just you hit them with your hand. And I was like, oh, that's not a trick at all.
And so she just spent the night slapping me.

Speaker 2 And that was the trick and then in this movie I made with Kieran I said you know I have to slap him at the end of the movie and it's this big thing at the end of the movie and I told him do you know the trick I learned this from the great Laura Linney and I was like you just I slap you really hard

Speaker 5 eye contact yeah exactly make eye contact yeah which doesn't mitigate the feeling at all no it does it makes it more personal if anything it makes it worse exactly yes that's true I've had to do some slaps um uh and I've found that you just have to change the timing of it on every single take so that you get that genuine surprise.

Speaker 4 Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 5 Which is not really fair to the person receiving the slap, but it's great for the audience.

Speaker 4 On Will and Grace, if we had to slap somebody, Jimmy Burroughs would clap off screen. Wait, why? Time it?

Speaker 2 Really? Wait, but you were not actually near them.

Speaker 4 You would fake the slap.

Speaker 4 You would go just in front of their face, but he would time it. He would just

Speaker 4 clap. Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 5 So that the audience would hear that it wasn't a miss.

Speaker 4 yes that's interesting the great jimmy burrows and by the by the way and that's the sound that they would keep in the show yeah oh wow jb do you remember season one of arrested development i was in a wheelchair and i was just i was wearing a hospital gown and you were leaning down in front of me it was the end of an episode and you're leaning down in front of me and as you leaned down I slapped you in the face.

Speaker 4 It was not in the script. It wasn't.
It was apropos of nothing. I slapped you and you looked at me and my bare leg was showing because I was wearing a hospital gown.

Speaker 4 And as you got up, you slapped the inside of my leg so much.

Speaker 5 I was about as hard as I could.

Speaker 4 Hard as I could. Oh, wow.
And in the show, I go, oh, just because it really happened. You fucking killed me.

Speaker 5 Right. And it was safe to do that because you're in a wheelchair.
You can't possibly get up and run after him.

Speaker 4 And my character couldn't get up and run after him. So he was.
He stayed in the character. Oh, that's me.
It's not that.

Speaker 2 Was it, it was not, it was happened on one take?

Speaker 4 How about one ten? That's the one. It's in the show.
And that's the only thing.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And Jay,

Speaker 4 I learned on that tour of the Smartless tour that Jason will just, I've never had somebody do this in my entire life. He will just walk up to me and slap me on my face.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Just sort of like contact. Hey, buddy.
I love the way you act. Like you're just as surprised as everybody, Jason.
You just went, yeah, I know. I learned that.

Speaker 4 Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 2 Yeah, like I just do that.

Speaker 4 Like, I do it all the time. It's a love tap, y'all.
Well, it's pretty hard.

Speaker 4 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 5 Now, speaking of magic, the magic of movies, let's get to now you see me. So there was a lot of magic in that or illusions.
Sorry, Will.

Speaker 4 Illusions.

Speaker 5 I would imagine you did a little bit of training for that. And have you, have you retained any magical talents? Like, do you have a card? Do you have a go-to card trick?

Speaker 2 I do. I do.
And it's weird because I have like muscle memory from it. We just finished doing the third movie like a month ago, and I just do the same one trick I know.

Speaker 2 And for audiences who are paying attention, they'll realize that the greatest magician in the world knows one trick.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I just repurposed the one thing I learned. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Don't put it in a different outfit.

Speaker 5 Someone was doing a magic thing at something I was at last week. And I just thought like it, and he did a series of magical tricks, as they do before they're done with their set.

Speaker 5 And by the time you get to like the third trick, you know your mind's going to to be blown. You know, you're going to be like, oh my God, how do you do that?

Speaker 5 And you just sort of like click into a gear of like, all right, let's see it. Here comes another sort of mind-bending wow.

Speaker 5 And what I, what I thought was what would really be impressive at this point is to now tell us how you did it because I know I'm going to be shocked.

Speaker 5 What would be really impressive is to see how you're doing this stuff. So you've trained yourself and taught yourself to hide all these things that I didn't see.

Speaker 5 So when is magic going to change into that?

Speaker 4 When are you going to enjoy life?

Speaker 4 When?

Speaker 4 When will you enjoy that? That's the magic. That's the magic.
My heart is breaking from you. I just had therapy.

Speaker 4 When we're done, I'm going to call him and I'm going to bring you in, JB. Jump on with Terry.
Fuck, man. Oh, God.

Speaker 4 I want to. I'm going to drive.
I'm going to shoot you, Terry. I want to hug.
I wonder if you should do the same Terry. I really want to hug you right now.
I feel just, there's just zero inner love.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You can't experience it.

Speaker 4 I'll take it. I'll take a hug anytime or slap.
But Jason, there is this show on TV.

Speaker 2 It was called like

Speaker 4 Breaking the Magician's Code or something like that. It's like Magic's Biggest Secrets or something like that.
And they did that. They revealed all those big tricks and how they did it.

Speaker 4 I thought it was fascinating. I'll see that.
I'll look at that. And then what are you left with?

Speaker 5 Then I'll just start reading ingredients on food packaging, just knowing what's on the inside.

Speaker 4 There's tons of stuff.

Speaker 2 You got a peek behind every curtain.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, when you hear about these, like, when you hear how these magicians have done done the trick, though, sometimes it's far more impressive than the trick because the kind of work that went into making something look seamless is like, you know, shocking.

Speaker 4 Right, right, right, right.

Speaker 5 All right. Talk to me about

Speaker 5 your

Speaker 5 move into directing. Why that happened and when it happened.
Was it, was it simply a result of you

Speaker 5 arriving at a place in your career where you could say, hey, I want to now direct and you had the sort of industry capital in order to say that?

Speaker 4 Or

Speaker 4 did it happen more organically than that?

Speaker 2 No, I didn't want to.

Speaker 5 But there was that you wanted to do it for a long, long time.

Speaker 2 No, I've always just wanted to write plays. And then my last play, which was like 2019, just like wasn't received well.
And I was like kind of really, yeah, like kind of.

Speaker 2 heartbroken or whatever, like the play wasn't received well. And I mean, the actors were amazing in it, but the play wasn't received well.
And like, so I just was like, I have to try something else.

Speaker 2 It just made me feel bad. And there was like scrutiny in a way way that felt like mean-spirited in a way that was like, oh, this is industry can be.
I mean, movies can also be.

Speaker 2 But just think about theater because it's such a small community. I don't know.
It just, anyway, so I just thought, let me try to, I'll do a movie next.

Speaker 2 Yeah. No, but I love writing plays more than anything.
But I just thought maybe I should do a movie because, yeah, and the thing you said about clout, that like,

Speaker 2 I did, I guess, feel not so much clout, but more like, oh, I feel like I've been around it enough to kind of have an understanding of what to do.

Speaker 2 I know that sounds so lame, like I didn't go to film school, but I just felt like I've been on sets that have been great, and I've been on sets that didn't work, and I've been on sets that were terrible sets, but made great movies, and vice versa.

Speaker 2 I felt like, oh, no, I think I know what to do if I can write something that is like tailored to my limited skill set.

Speaker 4 There's nothing wrong. Yeah, you obviously

Speaker 4 you're around it, you pick up on it, and it makes sense that you would

Speaker 4 want to sort of take agency and kind of do it yourself. And

Speaker 4 Sean, last week, is watching his chef open tuna cans for, and finally he was like, I'm going to open a tuna can. That's not dissimilar.

Speaker 5 I can pinch the top on and make the water come out.

Speaker 4 Or at least let me try.

Speaker 4 I can eat that Hershey syrup out of the bottle. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Of course.

Speaker 2 And I think it's a, and I think in Sean's case, it is cloud. You know, I think you feel you've worked up to this.
And I think the industry recognizes that you can open this up.

Speaker 4 I didn't want to embarrass anybody. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's good that you're finally in a place where you feel like, yes, I can do that.

Speaker 4 And yes, I'm not going to get it. It's really good.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker 5 So wait.

Speaker 5 So you, you were, you were, so you were feeling a little in your Fifies about getting the bad reviews basically on the play, and then you thought you'd go for something with even higher exposure directing a film where you would, you, you could opening yourself up to even more.

Speaker 5 A broader audience.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah.
Like that, that was very brave of you.

Speaker 5 You went the other way.

Speaker 2 Oh, thanks. I mean, I don't know.
Yeah, but I guess I'm used to scrutiny. I mean, I'm used to scrutiny and I like, I care about it so much.

Speaker 2 I guess while it's happening and then literally not the next day. I just, you know, I don't want to be governed.

Speaker 2 Laura Lenny said the greatest thing that I actually didn't hear her say, but my dad heard her on Charlie Rose talk about this 20 years ago. But they asked, or he asked her,

Speaker 2 do you read reviews? And she says, no, because I don't want somebody else to tell me how to do my job.

Speaker 2 And my dad was telling me this because I'm such like, I was like a, you know, self-conscious person. And he said, you know, your.

Speaker 2 colleague who you were in that movie with, you know, this is how she views it. And it did really change my perspective.
That's interesting.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 5 It is a really odd concept. I totally understand

Speaker 5 the aggregate of them all, right? So rotten tomatoes, they put them all together. And then there's sort of like a consensus.

Speaker 5 Does this work for the general public, I suppose, since you're making a public effort with your art?

Speaker 4 Of course.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 specific reviewers, their specific take on how it affected them as an individual. Well, we're not making things for one individual, making things for a whole public.

Speaker 5 And so it's not going to work for some people. And that doesn't mean that it's not.

Speaker 4 But I also saw, like, well, I think you're right about the aggregate thing, but at the same time, have there been films or pieces or music that have gotten bad reviews that you really like?

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Can you think of one?

Speaker 4 Can you think of a film?

Speaker 5 A Terrence Malik film, The New World,

Speaker 5 got not great reviews. Interstellar, Chris Nolan's film, not great reviews.

Speaker 4 Sean, what about you? I both those two films. Yeah, Interstellar.
I mean, I can't think of them, but I know that

Speaker 4 I'll look on Rotten Tomatoes and convert it.

Speaker 5 The latest Batman film I thought was incredible.

Speaker 4 Um, but Jesse, can you think, Jesse, can you think of a film?

Speaker 2 I mostly have it like with theater. I mostly have it with theater where like I am enthralled by the, you know, by a piece and then it, I look online, I'm like, how is this torn apart?

Speaker 2 This is the greatest thing I've ever seen. This is something about like, and I don't know, maybe that even has to do with like different performances offer different things.
I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But yeah, no, I do feel like that, but I'll go the other way, too.

Speaker 4 I feel the same way season three of Ned and Stacey.

Speaker 4 Sorry, go ahead, Sean.

Speaker 4 I'll look at Rotten Tomatoes, and something will get like 90% or 95%. And I'll watch it.
I'm like, oh, good, they did the work for me. It'll, it's, it's going to be great, right? Right.

Speaker 4 And it's terrible. Like,

Speaker 4 I love Tenet. Nobody, a lot of Tennant.
Oh, right. I was like, this movie got ruined.
I've seen it three times. During COVID, it got lost, right? I loved it.
Sean, you didn't love it. I loved it.

Speaker 4 I didn't get it. Yeah, I didn't understand.
You didn't love it.

Speaker 5 One more thing about the directing thing.

Speaker 5 Have you ever gotten

Speaker 5 a really crazy direction from from a director?

Speaker 4 That's A,

Speaker 4 B,

Speaker 5 how has

Speaker 5 getting

Speaker 5 weird direction from directing from directors affected the way in which you interface with actors? Also, you know, being an actor yourself.

Speaker 5 And like, you've, you've worked with some incredible directors, and I'm sure you've been able to cherry-pick from the best of them and decided what not to do from the bad ones.

Speaker 5 But was there one in particular moment where you're like, I will never, ever do that to a poor actor or crew member?

Speaker 2 Only my friend, like Ruben Fleischer, who I think you guys know, like, you know, he just, oh, he did like the Zombieland movies. And then we just did, now you see me together.

Speaker 2 I've worked with him a lot. And I just remember on like the first zombie land, we were shooting in like what was supposed to be like a mansion.
And so he was like several rooms away on the monitor.

Speaker 2 And I just heard this muffled scream, now smile. And I was like,

Speaker 2 I could like understand that he was kind of talking to me. Right.
But also, I'm not like a smiler, you know, but also like it can't come. You can't, that's not the way you act.

Speaker 2 Like, my face will smile, you know.

Speaker 2 So, so he, you know, so that was just something I was like, oh yeah, I'll never, I'll never do that. But I love Ruben and now he's, now he's great.

Speaker 2 And, but you guys have worked with Greg Mattola, I think, too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he's just like my favorite. Like, I just, the way he handled this crew and the cast and I had like.

Speaker 2 which happened to me maybe two or three times in my life. I had like kind of a panic attack during a scene and I just shut down and I just couldn't act.
I don't know what happened.

Speaker 2 I just couldn't act. And so I, it was on this movie Adventureline, I took him aside and I said, I'm so sorry.
I don't know what happened. I think I had a panic attack.

Speaker 2 And I thought he was going to say, well, you know, we can't, I thought he was going to, you know, respond

Speaker 2 annoyed. And he said, I don't understand how you're not having a panic attack every scene.
Like you're exposing yourself. You're bringing your emotions.

Speaker 2 You're trying to not think about your own vanity.

Speaker 4 You're such a sweet man.

Speaker 2 And I just remember thinking, that's the way I want to think about actors forever, which is that like they're already doing this difficult thing.

Speaker 2 They're, you know, trying to avoid thinking about their face being blown up on screen. They're avoiding thinking about the scrutiny that they're going to get.

Speaker 2 They're trying to live in the moment despite 100 strangers standing around them. And so that was a key for me.
He's just the best, isn't it?

Speaker 5 Right, which is why I don't understand. For the most part, we actors are pretty crazy.
And I'm talking about myself.

Speaker 4 Like, I'm fucking nuts.

Speaker 5 And I'm filled with neuroses and insecurities.

Speaker 4 It is a helpful tool to pull. It's a helpful tool to

Speaker 5 call on when you're playing vulnerable characters.

Speaker 5 The central thing that we are doing, which is being up there in front of the camera, sort of is at odds with the inherent insecurities a lot of us have.

Speaker 5 So speak about that because again, getting back to, you know,

Speaker 5 you're so self-effacing and honest about your own neuroses. How were you possibly drawn to this incredibly exposing profession?

Speaker 2 Because to me, to have like a prescribed way of behaving because of a character and lines, i feel so comfortable like the thing that makes me nervous is like you go into a party and what do i say to this person do i remember this person what did this person tell me why do i have to be funny and this thing i just want to go home like to have like a prescribed way like you're playing this character they wear these pants that we put you in and you have to now go talk to that other person in this voice like that is much greatest thing in the calming yeah so calming now what about those i had the same i had the same feeling and then i started doing talk shows when i was a kid and it freaked me out yeah because you have to be you and And there is no script.

Speaker 4 And it's like, and there is no you. Right.
Exactly. I mean, talk about panic attacks.

Speaker 5 I'm prone to panic as well. And talk shows for a long time were just like my kryptonite.

Speaker 2 It's the only thing that still freaks me out in our industry. Like literally nothing else, but going on these talk shows at night freaked me out because I don't, I can't be funny.

Speaker 2 telling a story for like the second time, you know?

Speaker 4 I don't know. I've seen you on talk shows, Jesse.
You're always, you kill it every time. Yeah, every time.
Yes, I agree. I've seen you too.

Speaker 2 Because I try to not tell the story on the show that I told to the person before the day. Oh, yeah.
Because I know if I did that, it would just be weird and phony.

Speaker 2 You'd be trying to remember what made them laugh on the phone.

Speaker 4 Kind of like a performance.

Speaker 5 But if you get a great host like Kimmel or Conan or those guys, like

Speaker 5 they'll, they'll go with you, right? You can get a true kind of freestyle and they can just get into a conversation and you forget you're even in front of people.

Speaker 4 But then, but you're doing this now, then you're doing Graham Norton. Do you ever get burnt out by all of the chatter

Speaker 4 that you have to come up with?

Speaker 2 I don't. I don't.
I feel like an adrenaline rush when I'm meeting people like you who are really funny. Like, and him, I'm sure he's very funny.

Speaker 2 You know, you get the adrenaline rush of doing a thing that's fun.

Speaker 5 Right. And

Speaker 5 when you're promoting something that you love, like this great movie, A Real Pain, like, I'm sure it's just like you could talk all day about it, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I guess, yeah, because I've done. junkets that we all have for things that are not have not gone well.
And yeah, that can be really uncomfortable and you're kind of just parsing the youth.

Speaker 4 Right. Yes.
Before we let you go, I just wanted to find you on social media. If I wanted to find you on social media, what's your name? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 Where do I go? At the real. Yeah.

Speaker 4 At the real.

Speaker 5 Jesse, you're awesome.

Speaker 4 You're funny as shit. You're talented as hell.

Speaker 5 Nice as ever.

Speaker 4 Please.

Speaker 2 I love your show. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 4 Thank you, buddy.

Speaker 5 Say hi to Karen and Daniel and Graham. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you very, very much for doing this, buddy.

Speaker 4 It's very busy. It's an honor.
It's such a fucking pleasure having you, dude.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Thank you.
Such an honor, too. Okay, well, have a great morning.

Speaker 5 Look forward to meeting you one day in person.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah.
You too.

Speaker 5 All right, buddy. All right.
Enjoy.

Speaker 4 Bye-bye.

Speaker 5 Now, there's a nice fella.

Speaker 4 Love that guy. Yes.
He's really funny.

Speaker 5 I have no idea what to expect.

Speaker 4 Did you watch it before this?

Speaker 5 No. And now I want to do a lot of in-person with him.

Speaker 4 I want to find him at a party and corner him. Yeah, I know.
I'm going to Cafe Clooney to have lunch with him next week.

Speaker 5 Hey, you don't. Nice pipes, Willie.

Speaker 4 Will

Speaker 5 Will just removed his sleeves.

Speaker 4 Jesus.

Speaker 4 I just rolled them up.

Speaker 4 What part of your brain came up with Ned and Stacey?

Speaker 4 I don't know.

Speaker 5 Well, that's the place where Will and I first met.

Speaker 4 That's where we, Jason and I first met on the set of the show. What are you talking about? That was Deborah Messingham.

Speaker 5 She was buddies. Yeah, correct.
I was doing a guest shot on it, and Will was friends with Nadia.

Speaker 5 DeJohnny. And we all went out for drinks after the show, as one does.

Speaker 5 And there I was with Will at the bar apparently getting hammered because we were getting hammered and jason had a very weak bladder because he kept going to the bathroom yeah and uh um and and it was years later that i said to will uh after uh after i had uh uh put down the the bottle like seven years later yeah i said to will i said you know and will hadn't been drinking either for a long time i said boy

Speaker 5 i wish you and i had really gotten together when we were drinking, you know, and we would have had so much fun.

Speaker 4 And he just looked at me and goes, oh, we did.

Speaker 5 And I had no recollection of parting with him that night.

Speaker 4 Oh, that's so funny. I love that, Jesse.

Speaker 4 I mean, that

Speaker 5 Jesse Eisenberg, he's really left me in a great, great mood.

Speaker 5 High-quality guy, high-talent guy, high-intelligence guy. The guy, he's a writer.
He's an actor.

Speaker 5 I guess you could call him by

Speaker 5 talented.

Speaker 4 No?

Speaker 5 Sorry, I'm trying not to go. I'm trying not to do the fucking Sean.

Speaker 4 Bye.

Speaker 5 Like, what? You do it. You do it.
Let's hear it. Okay.

Speaker 5 Yeah, why is that? Why do you go into that? It feels good.

Speaker 4 It feels really good in my throat.

Speaker 5 Can we harmonize the buy talent? Okay, ready, ready, go.

Speaker 4 One, two, three. Bye.
Bye. Bye.

Speaker 4 No, someone's got to go high. Someone's got to go low.
Someone's got to go middle. I'll go middle.

Speaker 4 I'll go middle.

Speaker 5 You go high, and we'll go low.

Speaker 4 Ready? Ready to go. Sean, you start.
Okay. No, you got to start at the base.
Bye.

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