"RE-RELEASE: Selena Gomez"

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Hey, Will. Hello there.
Hey, Sean.

Will, you got some real sweaty pits today.

Are you concerned about anything?

Nervous.

I am nervous.

Nervous.

I just took a lie detector.

Oh, wow.

And what was the result?

I'm a liar.

Anyway, this episode is going to be great.

Yeah?

We're going to work out some truth? Yeah. It's an all-new Smart List.
Smart List. Smart List.
Smart List. Hot mic.
Hot mics. Hi, hot mics.
Hey, hi, hot mics. Send us pics of all your hot mics.
Post them on our page. We'd love to take a look at all your hot mics.
He's so tired, he's still got it. So tired, still got it.
So tired. Sean, you had a hot bob once, didn't you?

I had a hot toddy, hot bob, and a hot mic.

You ever had a hot bob haircut?

Yeah, you did on the, whatchamacallit, Stooges film.

I had that shelf haircut in the 80s where you cut it short in the back.

Did you really?

Yeah.

That sounds very Depeche Mode.

It's totally, it's TDM, total Depeche Mode.

I had like kind of long and then short in the back. You had it like covering one of your eyes? Yeah, just kind of like coming up, you know.
Archie's kind of got that, right? Your oldest son there, listener. He's got a little bit of a what's that? Kind of looking through his hair.
Now it's kind of long all around. What's that? That's a what's that haircut? What's that? Yeah.
I can't hear you because my hair is blocking my eyes, not my ears. Richard Ehrlich.
Yeah. The last thing he says to himself before he leaves.
What's that? Yeah. Yeah.
Our buddy, Richard, I love him. The most incredible real estate broker in the world.
He is so good. If you're looking to buy a home in the Los Angeles area.
Especially on the west side of Los Angeles area. Tricky Dicky Ricky Eard ehrlich is your guy yeah amazing and he's also in a he's an he's an og super fan of smart yeah yes so uh hello to richard if you're listening richard's got a uh richard's got i may have bored you with this before he's got a he's got a mirror face um like we all do but he's got a he's got a trigger sentence that that launches that mirror face you know's got a face that they use.
Well, when you look in the mirror, when you want to look your best, like one last look to go out, you kind of tighten up the eyes, you maybe turn your head a little bit. The Fonz had A, right? Exactly, right.
So what Richard does to prompt the mirror look he's looking for is he pretends that he is asking someone for directions, right? He's pulled up in his car next to someone walking their dog maybe. And he asks them directions and they give them the directions.
And he looks forward over his steering wheel and then he figures, well, maybe I didn't hear it correctly. And then he'll turn to his left to the person and he'll go, it's where? and so it's where the combination of the turn and the question will tighten up the eyes just enough and give them just enough disdain to look sexy it's where yeah that's a good that's a good red carpet like sexy disdain that's the new one right yeah he never looks hotter than when he says it's where which is so crazy because he's such a nice guy he's a nice guy and he's nice looking but he's not good with directions um sean good morning um what have you done so far today aside from putting on some uh smartless swag i see there on your body you know he's always wearing smartless shit will like like we're televising this and he's helping uh move merchandise i wear it because i really like i sleep in it he sleeps in it and sean what was the sleep what was the sleep sketch last night because you have a weird you wake up in the night and then you go back to bed early in the morning i go to bed at about midnight i get up about 3 a.m i stay up until about six or seven then i fall back asleep for couple hours, and I'm good to go.
And then I need like a 10-minute nap. And then I'm good to go.
Total chaos, and then I'm good to go. It is total chaos.
I'll send an email at 3 or 4 in the morning. I know.
Oh, I know. Oh, I know.
Don't start doing well. By the way, I love the way your impression of me just has the dumbest look on your face.
Oh, I know. You know what we've done here, Sean, though? We've boosted up young Willie.
Willie started this. See, he started a pod a little bit down, a little bit out of sorts.
And then there's just a little bit of love. And now the wings are flapping.
All right, tighten up, guest. Here we come.
Today, we have a guest who's a giant in many categories. She's a titan in music, acting, producing, philanthropy, business, and social media.
If you wanted to describe a person who's uniquely suited to soar in today's media and cultural systems, you would simply say her name. She's a Grammy, Emmy, SAG, Golden Globe, and Critics' Choice nominated musician, actress, and producer.
Her music has amassed 34 billion streams globally. She's got a movie coming out, a TV show that's already on, and a company that exceeds 300 million in sales annually.
And when she's not running those things, she's keeping up with her 428 million followers on Instagram. What else needs to be said, guys? Please welcome the lazy, unaccomplished, unmotivated, and perpetually failing Miss Selena Gomez.
Woo! Woo-hoo! Wow. Oh, boy.
I love the unmotivated.

Unmotivated, perpetually failing.

It was so hard not to laugh.

It was so hard.

Wow.

Oh, my gosh.

Selena, hello.

Hi.

Hi, guys.

I'm so happy to be here.

I'm so happy you're here.

This is a very nice thing you're doing for us and our listeners.

Oh, no.

This is more my thing.

I'm so happy.

It's pretty cool of you.

If we didn't know, it looks like you were lying in bed in sheets. We have an overshot.
Oh, yes. Well, that is my beautiful background that I made for you guys because I figured that would be better than random jackets.
You're keeping it real. Listener, she's got just a sheet draped over just a bunch of dead bodies behind you.
Yeah, perhaps. You know what it is? Good work.
Thanks. Nice segue into murders.
Oh, yeah. Well, we're going to get to that.
We're going to get to that. So, Selena, where do we find you this morning? Are you in Los Angeles? I am.
I am home right now, and I just had my coffee, and yep. What time do you usually get up every morning? I'm a 6.30 guy.
I'm about 7, 7.30. Are there animals to feed? Yes, I have two dogs.
You do? What kind? They're little multi-poos. They're pretty annoying but cute.
Two the same. Is that because your body gets you up at 7 or are you just like these two? No, my body does.
I think, I don't know, for some reason, maybe the show or something, it's just embedded in me that I'm automatically up

and then I feel like a piece of shit if I wake up at like 10.

Sure.

Right.

Even though those are nice.

What is that about the body that'll just wake you up

at the same time every single day?

Circadian rhythm.

Circadian rhythm.

Marveling at the body.

Look at this thing.

And then if you just point your eyes at something, it tells your brain what you're seeing. It's just a miracle.
You're like a one-man Spielberg movie. Just a wonderment of discovery.
Guys, if you pull one foot in front of another, you'll just end up moving forward. That's incredible.
All right, so Celia, with these two dogs, they're Maltese, Maltipoos. Yes.
So that's a combo, right? Yes, they're very cute. They're brother and sister? No, they are.
I got them at two different times, but they definitely don't act like brother and sister. No.
Rescues, purebreds, we can cut that if you want. No, no, no afraid to say during covid i was very scared and lonely and i found one on craigslist yeah because the mom was like we had babies and we don't know what to do yes they were like we don't know what to do our dog had puppies so i was like i'll take one clear out for a joke go ahead will

no no no no it actually was really sketchy though they like drove in from vegas and like rolled the window halfway down and passed me the dog and wanted the cash i was like all right my my mom i did have a bad experience i did have a bad experience once because this guy posted on craig's list he said who wants for a hundred bucks you want to come out check out these these puppies.

And let me say,

when I got to his house,

it was not dogs. It was not dogs.
Come check out these puppies for a hundred bucks. Thank you, Will.
Thank you. You rest again.
All right. Let's Will Will's how you got.

You did a literal spit take.

In your own mouth.

Oh, my God.

We're a little slappy this morning.

We are super slappy.

Super slappy.

Selena, isn't it better to get this over with than in an afternoon?

No, I actually don't mind this.

This is a great way to start my day.

You guys are making me laugh.

Well, keep your knees bent.

It's not over yet. We'll let you revisit that at the end, see if you still love it.
Okay. All right.
Now, Selena, you're incredibly accomplished. You started very young.
I want to know. So you started with acting, yes? Because mom was an actor and got you kind of interested in that? Yeah, she actually never pressured me or said that's what I should do.
She just did a lot of theater growing up. So she never really did anything television wise.
And I was seven when I got my first job because I was only child, super dramatic. And I was like, I'm so capable of this.
Right. And I did.
Kind of all it takes. Yeah, that's true.
But it worked, and I've just been working ever since, and I feel lucky. Was this Barney? That was Barney.
Oh, that's crazy. You were in Barney? Started with Barney.
Yes. That's pretty rad.
The guy who played Barney, he was pretty hot. Was he? Was he? Yeah, he was hot.
He had to be like fit and like cute because he's one of those like, well, he doesn't have to be cute, but he was. Hot Barney.
This is changing everything. That's a new doc.
So he was a plushie. Yeah.
Uh-huh. Oh.
I'm sorry, Sean. What was that? Just quick for Tracy really quick.
Just break it down. Does Tracy need to know this? Does she want to know what a plushie is? A plushie is like a fetish where people dress up in like costumes and stuff, right? Not familiar.
I heard you guess. What do you mean right? You think.
You don't need to say right question mark to us. Yeah.
We're going to verify. Right, or something? Or something? That is correct, Sean.
All right, so we're with Barney and we're having fun on that and then from there... How did Barney happen? I really want to know.
It was, yeah, it was like a little like thing, but I was in line with 1,400 people on a hot Texas day. And my mom was like, are you sure you want to do this? I was like, yeah.
And I was like, I'm fine. Because you knew what TV was and you thought it would be cool to be on TV? Yeah, I was, I mean, my mom wasn't very intense about what I could watch.
So I would stay up and watch Friends with her and Will and Grace. And that was like what I grew up with.
Barney and Will and Grace. Barney and Will and Grace.
For the longest time, by the way, on my bio on Instagram says, I love Will and Grace. No way.
That's so sweet. Yeah, for like a solid year.
And then everyone was like, can you maybe change that? I was like. That's very sweet.
Did you ever see the episode where Will was in a dance-off with Sean? Janet Jackson. With Janet Jackson? You did? I was a backup dancer.
I played a backup dancer. Oh, that's right.
And then Karen got mad because she fell for you. And yes, I remember.
Yes. Oh, my God.
You really are a fan. I am.
Wait. Will, I remember you snapping those moves.
I think I was there that night, right? You were there that night. You really know how to finish a move.
Remember how exhausting we talked about before? Hard points. But we were so tired and Jimmy's like, okay, let's do it again.
I looked at Sean and I'm like, we're not going to do it again. I'm like, I am.
Five, six. But Selina, do you know, just as a Will and Grace super fan, you know that we, there's a podcast that Sean does called Just Jack and Will that he does with Eric McCormick.
No, I do know. I actually do know.
And I remember, like, my friend sent me the link because she knew that I was obsessed and I had no idea. No way.
Yeah. Sean, did you know that Selena Gomez was such a huge Will and Grace fan? I did because I'm really good friends with Marty Short.
Oh, yeah. And then we chatted on the phone.
Me and Selena chatted on the phone like a year ago or something.

And you were like, oh, my God.

And I was like, oh, my God.

I'm a big fan of yours.

I freaked out.

And then I freaked out.

Oh, my God.

And she was like, shut up.

No, likewise, Selena.

I'm a huge fan of you.

That's kind of a bit of a meet-cute.

No, I'm very excited.

I grew up with you.

Me too, and I grew up with you.

53. 53 years.
All right, so we're galloping along with acting. We've got the Barney under our belts.
We'll move into Waverly Place. Yes, my Disney show.
Yes, and a few other jobs here and there, and things are really moving. Cooking.
Cooking. Yeah.
And then there's a cooking show later. We're going to get to that.
But when did music start to tap you on the shoulder and say, hey, come this way? Well, I think that Disney is safe to say they're a machine. And they kind of, in a way, not forcefully required that I know how to sing so I could sing like the theme song.

Like they know how to package someone and like make it like a whole triple threat thing.

This was happening during Waverly?

Yeah.

So they asked me to do the theme song and I had fun with that.

And then they were like, would you like to do an album?

And I thought it would be fun.

And I thought more than anything, it would be like a hobby that I really enjoyed and I wanted to be a serious actress I was 15 and I wanted to be an actress I never really intended on being a singer full time but apparently that hobby turned into something else did you have any idea that you could sing before you tried it? Yeah. Well, I was on Barney and I do, I love you.
You love me. Well, that's not very challenging.
And, you know, it warmed up my vocals. Okay.
All right. There you go.
And then because of that, did you take, like, singing lessons and developed your instrument, as they say? You know, I did. I don't think I'm the best singer, but I think I know how to tell stories.
And I love being able to make songs that, you know, I get more like a, I always get people coming up to me saying, I had no idea it was you that was singing that song. And that kind of makes it feel nice.
It makes, to me, that I feel like it's just about the song then. I mean, Wizards of Waverly Place was a gigantic hit show.
Yeah, I miss it. I want to say my sister wrote on that for a second.
Really? She was a writer on that, maybe. I might not be remembering.
But it was a blast. Like, I will say, yes.
That's why I love sitcoms. Would you say you have a good memory, Jason? No, not really.
Okay. Wayne, we're going to get right back to you.
But Selena, I want to... It's Will, actually.
What is it? It's Will. Thank you, Scott.
So... Guys, the bits.
I love the bits. I love it.
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Our show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

Hey guys, everybody should have a support system, right?

Who's your support system?

My support system, as you well know, talk about all the time, is Scotty.

And of course, my two besties, Will and Jason.

Whenever I have a problem, an issue, I talk to them about it.

And if they're not available, I will talk to a therapist. And I been going to therapy for a long time and it's always great.
So think about your favorite leaders, mentors, and idols. They don't have all the answers, but they do know when to ask questions or seek support from their community.
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That's betterhelp.com slash smartless. And now back to the show.
All right. So then you know that you can kind of sing a little bit and the music starts to take off.
Like, I guess what I'm asking is at what point was the acting and the music at the same level and you thought, do I to pick? Or should I try to keep both these things going at the same speed? I started having a lot of fun with music. And then touring was really fun.
But I was doing my TV show at the same time. And it wizards.
And I just found it really fun. So I just kept going.
But the older I get, the more I'm kind of like, I would like to find something to just settle on. Yeah.
Well, it's exhausting, right? I mean, that sounds like super, that's so hard. I just think about the energy.
Oh, my God. I went to a mental institute and canceled one of my tours.
Really? Because of too much work.

It was so exhausting.

Yeah.

It just got to me because I love working and it distracts me from bad things.

And I like that.

So I just like working.

I was just saying that this morning.

By the way, it reminds me of my three-year-old Denny.

He calls lizards because he can't see how he calls them wizards.

So he's always like, there's a wizard in the backyard. I hope he's right.

I really like, I hope he's right. I really hope there's a wizard in the backyard.
Because I want to talk to him. But wait, but Selena, you're saying that in a perfect world, you would pick either one or the other going forward.
Well, I do feel like I have one more album in me, but I would probably choose acting. You would? Yes.
God damn, you're so great at music, though. Well, thanks.
Here's the good news. You don't have to pick.
Don't have to pick. You're right, but I am going to want to chill because I'm tired.
But, yeah, I mean, reading through, I can tell you, we've had some very accomplished people on this show.

Thank you, listeners, for making it a place where accomplished people want to come.

I have never read so much information about a guest than I have about you.

I mean, the things you have done in your, I mean, you're just barely 30, aren't you?

31. It's just so admirable what you've done.
It's mind blowing. In philanthropy and in global sort of charities and being in, what, a UNICEF ambassador? I was a UNICEF ambassador and now I have my own foundation.
It's just stunning. And we haven't even gotten to Rare Beauty, this beauty company, the makeup company.
What do you call it? Rare Beauty. Yeah, but I mean, what would you describe it as? A beauty company? Yeah, I would say cosmetics.
You know, it's been really fun, but we're actually starting to get into skin now. I know this is all girly stuff, but I'm excited.
What are you talking about? I'm wearing makeup right now. Yeah, exactly.
I know, but we're going into skin now. It's about three years old, and it's honestly been the biggest gift because I launched it during COVID, and it just took off, and I couldn't be more thankful.
Did you launch it during COVID because you had time to finally, because you weren't on tour and you weren't shooting, you're like, now I have time to dedicate to this? No, it actually, it sucked. I was supposed to release it like a month right into COVID.
So I had done all the promotion and everything. It's about to come out.
And then we figured, all right, we'll just try online. And I think makeup became really big during COVID because people would do the videos and they would, you know, you know, create looks and it kind of just took off.
And I'm always like, like confused and just grateful because I've never been the type of person that want, I don't want to be or need to be the number one anything. And I think that's what my mom has instilled in me because I don't feel like anything's a competition.
So I feel like there's room for everyone. For everybody, yeah.
I'm really proud. Do you think like when you started Barney at seven and then Wizards and then all this, do you think that your work ethic and your drive and your ambition was instilled in you

or would have happened in any way?

Oh, I don't know.

I probably would have been a hot mess if I wasn't doing this.

I already am.

But I don't know.

I don't know.

I mean, we are all hot.

Obviously, tell us how.

Oh, I've been to, like, four treatment centers. Just because of depression and anxiety, right? Yeah, yeah.
And I'm bipolar as well. Cherry on top.
I would say you've got an incredible dynamic head on your shoulders that takes a lot of management and analysis, and it sounds like you're doing a pretty freaking good job. Thank you.
I don't know. Disney was like boot camp.
You know who doesn't have problems? You know who doesn't have problems, Lena? Dummies. I mean, that's where you get that blissful ignorance.
That's where it comes from. You need to be really smart to be complicated yeah you know so good for you i don't know i can yeah i think you're doing great it's not getting in your way of of your accomplishments and you and i have talked a few times you're incredibly nice so your your your personal um success is is fantastic as well as opposed to your your business success Thank you.
So whatever you're doing, keep going.

I appreciate it.

Are you super excited?

So your mom, as you said, your mom is or was an actress

and kind of that sort of paved the way for you to get into it

and take it seriously.

And you mentioned you're an only child.

I imagine you're still pretty close with your folks.

Yes.

And was that like when you started to make that transition into becoming a star at a really young age, what was that dynamic like with your folks? Like how much did you rely on them to kind of be there? And how has that relationship changed as you've gotten older? I mean, do you notice? Yeah, I think when I was younger, my mom, I mean, my mom was my mom. I was under 18.
So I was getting invited to these events and stuff. And my mom, from a very early age was like, you're gonna walk the carpet, maybe we'll stay for five minutes, but then adult times probably gonna happen.
And you know, it's like the vanity fair parties and all that stuff. And so she was, she was always very protective of me, but it never really felt like it was suffocating and she would always say the same thing to me she said the moment you stop having fun stop, it's okay you don't need to just kill yourself over something if you're not happy right and the hours of people don't understand that the hours and hours and hours of work that it takes to do a TV show, a whatever it is or a movie it's just like for it's hard enough to be a kid i just think about my own kids and being you know young teenagers uh my older boys and i'm just thinking and then the younger ones with the speech problems right i was looking for wizards it's like it's like the the idea in of of them like sean we were over there watching the movie the other night with Archie.
Can you imagine Archie, he's 15, being on the road and working all the time? I think like, no, he wouldn't be able to. He wouldn't be happy, is what Selena said.
It's tough, right? It's tough. No, it is.
And the transition honestly happened around 25 where I didn't feel like I had to impress my parents more so. But my mom was also really cool because right after Disney, she put me in a movie called Spring Breakers.
Like she found that movie and it's, you know, very racy. Yeah, right.
But it was fun. Yeah.
And it wasn't, you know, I'm sure your mom was not strategic with grabbing that, nor were you. But I'm sure that there was some thought put into it where this would sort of broaden the public's idea about that which you can do and that which is fitting of when they think about you.
She can do this. She can do that.
And or was it just a part of like, well, this is a little bit closer to who she's starting to become, not somebody who's- My mom was a huge Harmony Corrine fan and she heard there was a script out and so she was interested in it. And the character I play isn't as racy.
So I was like 19 when I did it and she just came up to me and she was this will make no sense and you're probably going to think I'm crazy but just read this and I read it and I don't know I I gravitated towards the character and then I met Harmony and I was like oh game over he's just really cool how did your mom have the sense to know good material from bad material or the right material? She's really great at that stuff. You know, she found the book 13 Reasons Why, which we turned into a TV show.
So she randomly was at a bookstore and she was a young adult and found that and we developed it. She just has really nice taste.
And instincts, clearly. Yeah, she's really great.
So I like to ask her advice on things. That's great.
That's awesome. I love that you guys are so close.
Yes. You know, we can cut this part too, but I am fascinated and thankful for how outspoken you are about mental health.
Yeah. Because I have somebody very, very close to me who I've had to deal with it and not deal with it it, but just like help with it.
And I was happy to help with it. And, but do you ever...
Will, you say thank you to him. You've never publicly thanked him, Will.
No, I was going to say the same thing. All jokes aside, Jason, you dick.
I was going to say, oh no, JK. I was going to say, I like the way that you're so open and frank about mental health.
And I think that it's something that people luckily talk about more and more. But I think it's really refreshing to hear you talk about it in a way that's very just sort of matter of fact.
And I think it's really, I don't know, it shows real maturity. And and it shows I think it's very brave

and I think it helps

so many people

the way that you talk

honestly in that way

I really do

it struck me

I think it's really remarkable

it is

it's great

because my mom

you know

died of Alzheimer's

a long time ago

I forget when

and because I

this interview is over

because it was so painful

because it was so painful

I just

me and my sister

and my family

we would

there's a point

where you have to start making it funny. Yeah.
Because you've cried too much about it. So then you cut it with humor.
And I have the funniest, you know, Alzheimer's stories, like, ever. Because I lived through it and it was so tragic that, you know, my mom, we can cut this too, but

my mom would go to the bathroom.

She'd go number two in the toilet and I'd walk in there.

I'd go, mom, you have to flush the toilet.

She goes, I don't know who did that.

I don't know whose dad is.

They came in here when I was here.

They went to the bathroom.

No way.

We cannot prove that that's mine.

She had a whole scenario.

Not prove that that's mine.

No way.

And we would laugh because it was past the point.

So my question is, have you, me dealing with somebody with... Have I taken a shit and forgotten? No, no, no.
Have you ever? No, have you ever like... Have you ever just kind of infused humor into the whole situation? Definitely.
I also have a few friends that are, you know, in comedy and writers. And it's just fun, you know.
And now me and my family are in a place where we can do that. Yeah.
And I don't mind saying the things that I'm walking through. And they can be fun and they can be messy.
But I've always just... You take the power back.
Yeah. Just knowing more, I feel better.
And it gives so many people, myself included, you know, a little bit more comfort in the reality that I'm not, you know, I'm kind of broken upstairs. We all are.
There are as many mental variables in all of us as there are physical ones. You can see the physical ones.
Someone's taller, someone's shorter, someone's thicker, someone's thinner, someone's got bigger feet, smaller feet. Like there are equal number of variables in the brain.
And the fact that we've got medicine, therapeutics, an environment that is tolerant of all of those variables nowadays as opposed to back when our parents were our age. And Jason, on top of that, community.
The idea that you're talking about it, it sheds a light and says, you're not alone, there's somebody else. And somebody else can relate to that and identify with it.
Certainly, I know from my own life, and I can say, somebody else says, I have this, and I go, oh. And they talk about their experience experience and I go, oh, you have this too.
And then we can talk about it in a way that, and, and that kind of really breaks it wide open. Definitely.
It connects you as well. I mean, that's why I released my documentary.
It's all based on mental health. Which was incredible.
Thank you so much. I haven't seen it.
I'm so, forgive me. I'm going to watch it.
I want to see it too. Don't worry.
It's really kind of sad. No, no.
I'm putting it on here. But it, but it ends well.
I just, I think that seen it. Forgive me.
I'm going to watch it. I want to see it.
Don't worry. It's really kind of sad.
No, I'm putting it on here. But it ends well.
I think that's why I did the documentary. I was terrified before it came out, and I had already signed the contract, and I was like, damn, I can't go back.
But that was a really big moment for me. And then I had people coming up to me not saying, like, oh, my God, can I have a picture? They would say, I've dealt with depression or I've done this.
And then I end up having a connection with people. Yeah, I love that.
Sometimes with all my health stuff, like I've had a kidney transplant. I have high blood pressure.
I, gosh, I have mental health. And I don't even know.
I'm sure I have other problems that I'm not aware of. I love talking about all that.
But you can think about like a situation and say, why me, why me? And instead, it's given me the gift to say, oh, I know why it's me. I'm there for those people that are going through what I went through.
And I can say, I hear you and I see you not just be in and say, my life's

perfect, but I'm sorry. You know, it's like, well, I can be honest.
I'm a big believer that, that the person upstairs or whomever's upstairs for anybody doesn't give you anything more than what you can handle. Um, and so the fact that you've been given all of these gifts, challenges, and that you're able to go through them so successfully in a public space such that you can give encouragement and support to others is like, I mean, talk about using your years right.
You know, we've talked about it on the show before about, you know, when you get to the end, we're all going to look back and hope that we used our time correctly. I mean, the first 30 years of your life have been incredibly accomplished.
It's like 20 lives. Mentally, certainly.
Yeah, I guess the question really is, now what? Yeah. You know, you're fixing your brain.
You're fixing the world. I don't know.
I think I just, I gravitate towards things I connect to and I'm all about authenticity. I can't really force myself to be anything other than who I am.
And it's just, you know, luckily worked. I'll bet your ability to recognize and attract those who are equally authentic uh is really keen to you know like i was just thinking when you're talking about the documentary thinking about alec alec shishian and and and his his sister uh aline we both work with i mean there people like that like you probably have a great team around you uh great friends around you like all of us as as we get older, you have less and less friends, but that's usually by choice.
Talk to us about your ability to kind of pick up on people's uniqueness and authenticity or lack thereof. Is that something you always had or has it just gotten sharper? Maybe it has gotten sharper, but ever since I was younger, I like to think I had good discernment with people.
And I could just sense when I felt that it was being forced or that there was something they were wanting or whatever. I just could feel that in a lot of people.
And, I mean, obviously I put some of those people in my life when i was younger and then i you know later realized but most of my friends like i said they're i mean they can go from being a writer to one of my friend is a real one of my friends is a realtor so like i i kind of is that richard erlich kind of just it's not richard erlich is it no um yeah well it's it's it's it's like it's having people skills right and i wonder if if you're like me that's part of what has always attracted me to being an actor is because i'm just fascinated with people and i really enjoy kind of reading people and seeing is this a person is this person a match for me or not um and i just wonder what that is also is. Also, it's just staying curious, right? Yeah.
The moment you stop being curious, like Jason just said, you become one of those dummies. Yeah, I know.
I love life and I love people and I find it really fun. Do you find that, which do you find is more cathartic for you, more sort of a lane to explore and enjoy parts of you? Is it with playing different characters or being a songwriter? I think it's a little bit of both.
I wrote this ballad called Lose You to Love Me, and that was probably the most personal song I'd ever released about something that was on everyone's mind for some reason. And then in acting, I feel like I have these moments in my life that have happened and I'm able to use that and it actually feels great.
And it feels like after a good cry or something, it's like a good feeling. Is there something that you, I mean, this is going to be one of the dumbest questions you've ever gotten.
is there something with every single thing that you've done where you're just like you know what i've never done i want i need to do that before oh yeah i don't think i've even began like in a lot of areas like i i not necessarily cosmetics and stuff but like i've said many times with you guys i think acting like i don't think I've been able to even touch the surface of what I know that I'm capable of doing and I'm very selective or else I'd be in all of the movies that I get offered and I just fight for my roles and I'm always auditioning so I like to earn it yeah good that's great we's great. We'll be right back.
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And now, back to the show. something i've i've sort of really gotten more and more passionate about is not playing characters as much as just playing somebody that doesn't force me to do a lot of acting and play a character.
I kind of like to be the audience. And a lot of that comes from my desire to try to be as not full of shit as possible in my life and not be fake and phony and pretending to be other people.
So I really like trying to be as authentic as I can. Do you have a similar sort of battle when you think about acting? Because you're so good about being really you and being in your skin and being honest.
Does that run counter to the whole thing that we try to do as actors? Kind of, but I just finished this movie, this Jacquardillard film, and it's all in Spanish and it's a musical, and it was one of the most challenging things that I had done. Wow, that's cool.
But it's really Emilia Perez. I think that will come out next year.
But it's so good if you just said none of your business. I know.
None of your business. I'm excited for that because there's, for example, there's the scene where I'm being left.
I'm not giving anything away. And I remember I channeled the moment when I had to go to rehab for the first time and leaving.
And I remember I told my co-star that's what I was feeling in the moment. And I just felt like it was getting that out when I remembered that first moment and being terrified.
That's cool. So it felt really cathartic.
Speaking of that, have you ever wanted to go to, you know what I'm going to ask,

go to the Broadway or do live theater?

And maybe you have.

I haven't.

I think I would like to.

I'm not sure I'm there yet

because I think I'd still be a little nervous.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

After touring and stuff?

You've already been like a stage performer.

No, but it's different

because I love when I'm doing my concert

because it's like, oh, these are my peeps.

Right, right, right.

And like you feel comfortable. You feel safer.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, will you talk more about that, about battling? Because like I get very nervous when I have to speak publicly.
Like I can't even give a toast. Really? Yeah, he goes white.
Yeah, but I have an enormous amount of confidence when it comes to other things that are going to be made for the public. Like a big in front of a camera.
Right. For millions of people as opposed to 10 people at a dinner table.
So, I don't understand that about myself. The difference between having a lot of confidence or zero confidence that are sort of similar things.
Because Jay, because you're so well-spoken in life, just, I mean, clearly in life, that's why it blows my mind that anytime we're at like a dinner party or like two or three years ago, we are at your birthday dinner party at Richard's house. Yeah.
And I said, let's go around the room and say, how grateful, how much we love Jason. And I'll start.
and i got up and i gave this little speech and it got to j and you were like i'm out i don't want any part of this it's like yeah but i yeah so how do you manage that like what is that switch that flicks for you when you can stand up in front of you know a hundred thousand people and give a concert or do a movie or television show that's going to be for millions of people versus like maybe going out on a date for the first time or doing an interview for a magazine or whatever might give you anxiety. Do you know what that is, that different thing? Because I'm still trying to figure it out with myself.
I think when I was younger, I had a very, very public life. And it wasn't fair in a lot of ways that I got to the point so much so that I was like, if I don't talk about what's going on, everyone's going to continue to narrate my life.
And people are just going to buy it. And I need people to hear from me.
And I genuinely stopped caring. Like, I don't, I don't care.
Like I would be happy to stand up and speak very highly of someone. I'd be happy to do it.
Even if I mess up, I'm like, all right, well that sucked. But you know, I tried like, it's fine.
So I don't know know if I'm just I've done it for too long that I just have lost a little bit of that fear but I still get the butterfly feeling um so maybe I just got used to it and then I'm kind of like well people are gonna like it or or not yeah I have a friend of mine um Maria Shriver she you know've known her for years and years and decades and she i whenever i would have dinner at her house she she's the one who forced me to get up and talk like that and it's so i was littered you know sorry i was riddled with fear about it and but i she forced me to do it she's like we're gonna go around and stand up and speak how you feel. And I was like, pass.
Go on to the next person. Were you so nervous because you had just littered? Is that what it was? Like, I'm having a tough time following what happened.
But now that you're saying it, I think like for me, it's like, I'm afraid of being accused or judged as either being full of shit or being stuck up. I had a real complex about being conceited and stuck up when I was in middle school.
Like sixth and seventh grade was really hard for me in school because people, oh, here comes that guy on TV. He stuck up.
So I wasn't really, I was shy about being confident because people would think i was stuck up so then i tried to seem not confident and then maybe that part of me kind of took hold well you know but what's crazy about that though is think about it that's inauthentic yeah exactly if you think about you you you fell you fell victim of the very thing that you were trying to prevent i mean that honestly yeah. And when you're thinking about it that much, you put a space between you and people you're trying to connect with, Jay.
I really mean it. And if you can break that down and react in real time, then it will never be inauthentic.
But the second you start thinking about you're trying to curate what other people think of you, that's inauthentic. Yeah, and it makes me so nervous because I'm having to manage two things at the very same time.
Right, right. Because you're taking care of their feelings before yours.
Yeah, you're never going to be able to, I remember somebody saying once, you can't tell everybody how to treat you or how to look at you. There's nothing you can do about the way people think about you.
All you can do is take care. Well, yeah.
There's that and also like you'll never get to it. Selena, one second.
No, it's okay. I'm enjoying this.
I like this conversation. Just really quick, it's the same thing that I've carried around for so long being gay.
I've constantly my entire life i just came out my my entire life uh i've been i spent taking care of other people's feelings and putting mine second and then you have to reach a point where selena is saying we're like i can't i'm exhausted but why did you do that for being gay with regards to you being gay is that what you mean yeah yeah with like if i enter a room, I still have a little bit left over, but for the most part I don't care. It's like I have to check.
I'm so used to it's in my blood now to check how people think about me entering a room. Are they thinking about my being gay or not? I used to do this when I was younger.
I remember I was doing an interview and I sat down and there was probably 14 people behind the camera. And I was I think I was maybe 21.
And I started to sweat and I like ran away and I started crying because this is what I was thinking. I was like, these people probably think I sound stupid.
They're going to go home and tell their partners or friends about how much of an idiot I am. And I feel like a horrible, like, interviewer.
I just, it used to kill me. Really? A panic attack? Yeah, I've had that.
And I couldn't, I was stuck there. and it just becomes exponentially more horrific and terrifying because you now you're convinced now they can see that i'm having a panic attack now it gets even worse it's like oh yeah yeah yeah and so you have that too huh i mean i i still fall back into it but i've you know here and there but for the most part there.
I really mean this. I'm sure there'll be a lot of listeners like, shut the fuck up.
Really, this is new to me. I don't understand it in that way.
I just, everybody's wired differently. It's a form of paranoia.
Like when I got this, you know, when I got this, and I was so, obviously. He's holding up just some sort of just plain white, faceless body.
And I thought, fucking, thank to everybody. But I feel like the older I get, the closer I get to our favorite term, sexy indifference.
Or rather, better said, a healthy indifference where you do care what people think, but you're not obsessed by it and you're not pulled around by it. I will challenge you on that because we're doing it right now today.
That is also put on. It's not real because if you have to think about the sexy indifference, then it's not organic.
I'm trying to get to that place of honest and healthy indifference where it's just right sized, where you do care about people. You don't want to be rude.
You want to be sensitive. The freedom is when you don't even have to recognize that you do have indifference, that you're just living.
That's the freedom. Otherwise, you're shackled by the idea of it.
It still lives there as an idea. But it's also what we do for a living, right? It's part of our job to be aware of what people think and kind of manipulate that.
We're professional liars, you know? So it was a little bit of a head screw for me. It obviously still is when I was a kid.
When you're trying to figure out who you are and who you're becoming, you're training yourself how to fake to be somebody else. It's kind of a little bit of a blender.
It's very weird.

Do you still think about that, Selena?

Absolutely.

I remember I was talking about this with someone

and there was a study that said

the moment you get famous at a certain age,

you end up stuck in that area for a while

because it stunts your...

Yes, because it stunts...

You're dealing with things that no child should be dealing with and criticizing my body or something weird. Like it just, it felt, oh, just it doesn't feel good.
You can't grow privately like, like most people do. Yeah.
So, I mean, I don't regret my life, but there's a huge part of me that's like, yeah, I wonder what that would have been like to just be me for a second. So, but this, I'm assuming that, you know, you've got millions, literally millions of people that admire you more than any of us could probably imagine because of how brave you are with how honest you are.
And that is not going to go away, thank God. I mean, you're a role model whether you like it or not.
Until I run away from everything. No, no, you're not going to go.
Wherever you go, you're going to be there. No, don't take away her out until you run away, if you want.
I run away. But I now get it, though, Jay.
I want to say, because you just mentioned that, I want to say that I now get it when I sort of earlier, flippantly when we first started talking about how many millions of followers you have, I now understand, I get it now, your relationship with that number, with those numbers of people is tricky. Yeah, it is.
And I sort of have a little bit more of an understanding. I really mean that.
Maybe I'm a slow learner. No, no.
It's weird. It's such a bizarre thing.
And they give you way too much information. Like they'll tell you how many accounts you had reached and they'll tell you the percentages of women versus male or non-binary, whatever it is.
It's like, I don't need this information. I just want to post a photo and let it be for my fans and move on.
And they are definitely attracted to all the things that are very special about you and not to take away from any of that. But I think it is also very indicative of how common it is for people around the world to be not perfect.
Yeah. You know, and I think they really are comforted by how you are so honest about how not perfect you are.
And I think that's just a real gift that you give to people. Thank you.
I appreciate it. Myself included.
I thank you for that. Thanks, Jason.
I cannot believe we're already past an hour. This is literally the fastest interview.
Yeah. I'm stunned.
Not an hour right now, but it is pretty crazy. Yeah.
It is. I feel like we're just going to serve.
I'm like, guys, let's go have brunch. Yeah.
I want to let you go, but I know we have probably a couple of more questions. Sean, go.
Yes. No, I just want to know only murders.
I love the show. I love you in it.
I love Stephen Marty. Yes.
How did it come about? What was it like when you started? Did you just love murderers? Was that how you got in? Just murderers. To be honest, yes.
And I like very dark documentaries sometimes. So I tend to like lean into those, especially scary stuff like mentally.
And John Hoffman is one of my very, very close friends of mine. But no, it actually happened because, well, Steve's original idea was that it was going to be three men.
And then John Hoffman suggested that they hired they hired yes who created the show he he said i think it would be really cool if we added like a younger character maybe a female and steve liked the idea and i guess this was really a gift because they had me in mind and i um i remember thinking i'm like, well, what does this mean? And then I had FaceTime with all of them, with Steve, Marty, and John, and producers, and I was like, oh, I just have to do this because simply the people are amazing. And then the success of it after.
It's a good hang. Yeah, and then the success after was just such a surprise.
And we just were happy to do it. And only murders in the building.
Never manslaughter. Never manslaughter.
Just murders. Okay.
I'm fine. I'm allowed to ask.
Yes, you are. And that is in its fourth year or fifth year? Coming up on the show.
We just got renewed for season four. Season four.
And we may have to cut this, but John, I asked John, I was like, how many more seasons? And he goes, well, I asked Steve, and Steve said forever. I know, he does.
My favorite thing about Steve, and he knows that I've said this before, but my favorite thing is Steve will be like, I've got to get home. I've got to get home.
I've got to go. I've got.
I got to go. I'm too old for this.
And then I'll be like, then I'll be like, well, I go, Steve, like how many seasons do we do? He's like, oh, I don't want to stop. We're going to keep going.
And I'm like, he's just like, you got to get home. Exactly.
But you need to be home. So sometimes I'll be like, I'll carry the load because I get it.
It is the greatest trio, but as been it's been said before one of the oddest trios ever it's so great it's amazing it's awesome thank you it's awesome yeah it's great thank you well Selena this has been great thank you honey for being here yeah of course I just wanted to tell you Jason really quick yes ma'am I send your wife, Amanda, and your girls some of my new collection from Rare Beauty. Oh, you sweet thing.
And like a whole little box, because I would love to see, you know, what they thought. They're enormous fans of yours, as is Amanda, my wife.
Yay. So I want to send you that, because this is going to be one of the biggest collections that I've released.

And I'm beyond stoked for it.

I know it's little things like that that make me happy.

Yeah, but it's not a little thing.

It's really impressive what you've done with this.

This company is potentially, if it's not already, bigger than anything you've done in music or in film or television or in social media. I mean, it's an enormous company and you really should be proud of that.
But I think it's good products and we also just try not to be everything else, you know, like I'm not huge on promoting like crazy, you know, makeup. I love makeup, but I want my line to represent yourself and to have fun with it.
It seems very consistent with you and what you represent. Well, might I say your skin is flawless.
Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you.
She takes off her glasses. She goes cross-eyed.
She did a Richard Ehrlich. What is it? Say, it's where.
Say, he's a little bit confused. And then that kid, look at that.
Beautiful. Let her say, it's where.
Say it. Ready? And action.
No, it's where. I swear.
Oh, my God. That's good.
That's really good. You look just like Richard Ehrlich.
Great. Selena, you're the greatest.
Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you.
This was a big, big get for us. It's so awesome to finally meet you, too.
I am so happy, and hopefully I'll get to meet you all in person. I'm sure I'll run into you, Jason.
I'm a big fan of all of you, and I've really been wanting to do this for a while. I'm sure you know Jason.
So this has been really great. Thank you.
Thank you for doing it. Thank you.
All right alright have a great great rest of the day you too and thanks for talking with us alright bye guys bye Selena thank you you see now guys there's a nice person you guys have asked me multiple times you say Jason how do I get how can I become nice how can I become nice? How can I become nicer? You know? And be pleasant. Have success.
Isn't that your theory? Have success and then you're allowed to be nice. But then after that, try to be.
Remember that, John? Not before. Somebody is.
Not before because then they're going to be accused of wanting something. Kind and as gentle, as loving as she is.
Okay? What is that? Will's holding up a fake award. This is my dressing room.
I don't know. It's just something like, it looks like an award.
It doesn't look like an Oscar. I, yeah, she's really terrific.
Yeah, no, she's great. What did you both, did you learn anything, you guys? I did.
I feel like I'm lazy. Yeah, I think you're lazy.
Well, A, lazy, because she's just so, it seems like everything she does, she's successful at. Even mental health.
Right. She's successful at that.
I know, right? You know what I mean? Because she's not running from it. She's going right through it.
She just, it's pretty remarkable. And she's so, she's such a, talked about, we were talking, you know, authenticity was a central theme today's.
And she's so authentic. Yeah.
She's like a superhero. She really doesn't, like she said, she doesn't, she she just does what she loves to do everybody's welcome to come or don't come like and you know it's funny i was gonna say she said that she didn't care but it's almost like she it's not that she doesn't care it feels like she just what she cares about is just being herself and being yes and what she loves she turned that care internal she's taking care of number one um which for me always lets me be a better person to the people around me.
Sometimes I over-index in the selfishness, but I'm trying to get the right balance. Yeah.
Yeah. No, I'm sorry.
No. Still rolling.
Let's get one more of those, Will. A little more convincing.
Oh, no, Jason.

By the way, I held up on so many because it was such,

so many things I wanted to throw in,

and I didn't because it was just out of respect.

Oh, so you've got some unused jokes you'd like to workshop real quick?

I mean, no, no, no, no.

There was one at the end, certainly, that I wanted to make.

Yeah, let's hear it.

He said, don't worry, I'll carry the load, Steve.

And I was like, Sean, how many times?

Okay, so. Do you want to know a note.
Let's hear it. Which he said, don't worry, I'll carry the load, Steve.
And I was like, Sean, how many times? Okay. So.
Do you want to know? It's Steve, right? It's Steve, right? Yeah, Steve. Do you want to know, though? Speaking about Archie, your son.
Oh, here we go. This is a buy.
No, no. This is a buy.
Outside, once I had a wizard crawl up my pants. Did you really? Yeah.
Truly? Truly a lizard crawl up my pants. A wizard.
And how hard did it get up before it pulled a quick 180 and said, no, thank you. No.
That's such a funny thing, wizard. You could use it for so many things.
Oh, yeah. Oh, you know what? Okay.
So part of my, part of my, what is it called? gay tray that jason calls it oh uh oh yeah no no no what it wasn't yeah no the gay tray it's an invisalign thing yeah i didn't know you had it in today yeah so uh i have it in all every day and then but i can whiten my teeth but my dentist on three days ago said you care some teeth whitening stuff you can put in the Invisalign trays, but you don't have to put them in the back where the bicuspids are. Bye.
Smart. Smart.
Smart. Smart.
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