"Zoe Saldaña"

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Speaker 1 So, hello, here. This is a cold open to

Speaker 2 our upcoming episode of Smartless.

Speaker 1 The cold open is, Jason, the cold open issue.

Speaker 2 Where we do a little bit of banter.

Speaker 1 Have we prepared anything?

Speaker 2 Can we just get a suggestion from the audience? What is it?

Speaker 1 That'd be great. Bananas.

Speaker 1 Okay, so bananas is

Speaker 1 the prompt.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right. It makes me think of what it makes me think of is breakfast.
Sure.

Speaker 1 Welcome to Smart List.

Speaker 1 Terrible, terrible cold open. Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 Let us.

Speaker 2 Hey, Sean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anything you'd like to say to the listening world?

Speaker 1 I did go recently with me and Scotty and two other friends to an escape room. And it was.

Speaker 1 Have you ever been? Have you ever been? Is it inside your house? Well,

Speaker 1 you know why I haven't been? Because you know who went to an escape room this weekend? Nash for his seventh birthday.

Speaker 2 Couldn't get in. There were too many seventh graders in there.

Speaker 1 You know what else Nash is into? Lightsabers. That's right.

Speaker 1 star wars but let me tell you but i like the problem solving of escape rows do you have a mirror close by i need you to look in the mirror right now i need you to have a conversation with yourself right now and say fuck it dude i blew it have you ever done it

Speaker 1 have you ever done it uh i don't think i have i know my

Speaker 1 after all that yes

Speaker 1 well with your kids though right well i did it i did it with the kids but i will say it's really fun and it's hard

Speaker 1 to collect and you just hang out

Speaker 1 Here's part of the other thing that people don't understand.

Speaker 1 Because I haven't done one in years and it was great.

Speaker 1 Is that well, you were in that real, right?

Speaker 1 Weren't you in some guy? He built a thing in his basement and he tried to put you in there. You were in there for like 18 months or some shit.
You have an awful move.

Speaker 1 You were like,

Speaker 1 that was consensual.

Speaker 1 Wasn't there something that he wanted you to put lotion in the basket or something? What happened with that? Yes, I'm telling you it was consensual. Forget the details.

Speaker 1 Remember you telling me once anyway that's an escape room but i will say that we like to give each other because i was thinking about i give you i rip on it like no it's for kids and blah blah blah and of course i've done it myself and so then people sometimes will go like you guys are just too mean or whatever i'm like oh yeah we're around yeah we're just having a laugh you know what i really enjoyed with the kids is laser tag have you guys done those ones i have yes i won i won with a bunch of 12 year olds i won yeah no no here comes sean again with another adult play date i did it with Bella Bajaria for her birthday.

Speaker 2 You did it with Bella, Netflix's greatest Bella Bajaria.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, we did it for her birthday one year. Come on, dude.
Yeah, that was my call.

Speaker 1 It was a long time ago. It was really fun.
Remember, like, everybody's like super hipstery, and it was like, hey, we're going to go and do kickball, adult kickball league.

Speaker 1 Then we're going to go do laser tag, and then we all drive old BMX bikes. Yes,

Speaker 1 I've got an ironic bicycle. Do you have an ironic bicycle? Like, you know what I mean? Wait, did you do paintball? I did my oldest brother, Dennis, for his

Speaker 1 wedding. I was the best man.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 You know what?

Speaker 2 I did paintball training for a movie once.

Speaker 1 Paintball. Yeah.

Speaker 2 When we did Kingdom, we had to go out and do paintball fights. And it was really, really scary getting hunted

Speaker 2 by someone.

Speaker 1 I was talking to the kids went paintballing last week. I was just talking to them on the way to school today about paintballing.
It's fun, right? I've never done it. I've always wanted to do it.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's really painful. I killed somebody with a real gun.
Oh, well, welcome to Spark. Let's get to the guests.
Let's get to the guest.

Speaker 1 I do want to get to the guest.

Speaker 1 Let's get to the guests. I want to get to the guests too, but hang on.
I just want to say,

Speaker 1 here's the thing. I was just going to go on a couple of things about,

Speaker 1 do we have a segment yet called just stuff I hate? Or should we?

Speaker 1 We absolutely should.

Speaker 2 We're pretty kind of unofficially covered every week with you, but thank you.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 In the body of the show.

Speaker 1 It's a new expression that I'm adding to

Speaker 1 Storyteller, which is everywhere you go now. And I think it started in the golf world, I think, but it's everywhere, which is, and it drives me fucking crazy.
Welcome in. Oh, this is this.
Welcome in.

Speaker 2 Welcome in. Phrases that we'd like to never hear again.

Speaker 1 Have you heard people say welcome in? I have not.

Speaker 1 They go, welcome in.

Speaker 1 Why are we saying in? Just say, well,

Speaker 1 if you feel the need to say, just say welcome.

Speaker 1 Wait,

Speaker 1 two that I have that I don't like is because I watch a lot of football now, as you know. Have a day.
Have a day.

Speaker 1 Well, I said this the other day when all the announcers always go, we got some play action. they like just saying play action just say they have the ball or whatever

Speaker 1 i brought that up to uh to our friend that we did the show with uh jb i brought that up to peyton manning last week yeah yeah i brought up that i said that you hated the uh that they they overuse play action action yeah yeah because they make it make and it's and then when you're on a when you're on a flight they go uh um

Speaker 1 uh stewardess cross check cross check and something cross check cross check yeah

Speaker 1 is the door secure or not yeah yeah how about

Speaker 2 how about door you know what what? I'm glad they're not saying much more, much anymore is touch base.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Let me touch base.

Speaker 1 By the way, I'm going to circle back. I'm going to circle back.

Speaker 2 Circle back or in the theater world, they say, oh, oh, it's in a great space. Oh, we found a great space to do that.

Speaker 1 If we're going to go deep, if we're going to go deep these days,

Speaker 1 A, welcome in. Again, welcome in.

Speaker 1 I guess it feels kind of folksy.

Speaker 1 But the other thing that has exploded in the last couple of years

Speaker 1 has, well, for the five years before it was people all of a sudden discovered the word narrative who didn't know it and they used it overused. That's true.
That's true.

Speaker 1 But the other one is to your point. Everybody goes, to his point.
Oh, but I say it all the time on this. I know you say it a lot.
You sound like a moron.

Speaker 1 It has been you. You do.

Speaker 1 And it is so overused as well. No, but I mean,

Speaker 2 the one that's very overused now is right.

Speaker 2 Very educated people will be telling you a story and we're going along, right? And blah, blah, blah, blah, right. And it's like, no, you don't need to keep pulling me along with right.
I'm with you.

Speaker 2 I'm nodding.

Speaker 1 You keep pulling me along. I think that that's been around for a while, though.
I feel like

Speaker 2 it's used much, much, much more often now.

Speaker 1 My God, you guys, we have to get to the point. Just we're going to get to you in a second.

Speaker 1 Okay. So I know that I complain a lot and all of that shit drives me crazy.
And

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. So thank you for bringing.
However, you know what does drive me crazy? You know, I'm really excited about Sean. You know what I'm going to say.
Uh-oh. It's the new Smartless Media.

Speaker 1 Clueless. Clueless.
It's a new

Speaker 1 podcast.

Speaker 1 I set you up. I know, but I want to call it a podlet.
Could it be called a podlet? Oh, it's a podlet. Oh, it is.

Speaker 2 It's only like 10 minutes long.

Speaker 1 Yes, it is a little bit more. It's a little podlet, Jason.
You are, I would

Speaker 1 smoot you right now. So this is a new podlet called Smartless Media.
Just a million little kids.

Speaker 1 I want to smooch you so so yeah so that that's great it's called it's a podlet it is called smartless presents clueless and it's a bite-sized twice weekly puzzle podcast there's a bunch of puzzles like if you like wordle and stuff like that and the new york times crossroads website you'll love this they're 10 to 12 minute podlets it's really fun uh the hot the uh host is elliot kalen um he's the former head writer of the daily show with jon stewart so you're the permanent contestant or the permanent host permanent contestant you're permanent contestant and then other contestants come and they work in conjunction with you.

Speaker 1 And you guys did the first time. We did it.
Yes. I was kind of clueless about what it was about until I got on it.

Speaker 1 Very, very, very nice. So every Monday and Thursday, don't miss the fun.
You can subscribe to Clueless wherever you get your podcast. Anyway, let's get on to the guest.
Smartless. Yeah.

Speaker 1 My guest today, this is very exciting. This is a long time coming for me.
Huge fan. My guest today is a box office powerhouse.
I refer to her as the AAA actress. I'll explain in in a little bit.

Speaker 1 In the early 2000s, you might remember her as a ballet dancer trying to get picked for the American Ballet Academy in New York City or from taking a cross-country road trip with Britney Spears.

Speaker 1 Huh? Anything?

Speaker 1 However, her recent notable characters are mostly blue and green in complexion. And I can't wait for the new movie to come out.
I can't wait to talk about it.

Speaker 1 And although she herself is hip and cool, every sci-fi nerd like me knows who she is. It's the magnetic, the most incredible Zoe Saldania.

Speaker 1 Zoe Saldania.

Speaker 1 Hello there.

Speaker 1 Good morning. I'm so excited.
This is so exciting for me.

Speaker 3 First of all, it was exciting to listen to you guys talk. I was like mesmerized.

Speaker 1 We're just like in a normal conversation.

Speaker 1 We're always nervous that we're like,

Speaker 1 the person is sitting there thinking like, these guys are ding-dong.

Speaker 2 Hey, I'm so excited to see Amelia Perez.

Speaker 1 I have

Speaker 1 to sing it tomorrow.

Speaker 1 Well, should we watch it tonight?

Speaker 1 Do you have it? Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God. Please watch it tonight.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And then we're going to, then where should we email our notes? Because you guys aren't locked yet, right?

Speaker 2 We'll get them to you just a bit.

Speaker 1 You guys can do pickups, right?

Speaker 3 I'll give you my email, and then you can, you can, I'll forward it to Jacques. Actually, I'll give you Jacques Odiard's email and you can send it to him.

Speaker 1 I hear that. Google translated to French, though.

Speaker 3 He doesn't speak English.

Speaker 1 Is that true?

Speaker 2 Was all the communication via an interpreter during the film?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 3 We had many interpreters and there were many languages spoken. It was Spanish and English and French and some Italian.

Speaker 1 And are you bilingual? Do you speak all of those?

Speaker 3 I'm kind of. I was raised bilingual, but I'm kind of trilingual now because my husband's Italian.
Oh, wow. And I picked it up after so many years.
Wow.

Speaker 3 Also, always figuring out whether or not he was hustling me.

Speaker 3 Like, Italians are hustlers.

Speaker 3 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what do you think?

Speaker 3 It speaks flow.

Speaker 3 What is that?

Speaker 3 No, but it was great. But Jack is known for

Speaker 3 working

Speaker 3 outside of his language. This is not the first foreign film that he's done.
He did a film called Deepan, which was with these Indian actors. And then he did a film years before called A Prophet.

Speaker 3 And that was that had some Arabic as well. He's not defied by language.
He likes to kind of connect with human beings

Speaker 3 and challenge himself. out and you know when it comes to whether or not they speak the same tongue he just likes to find ways to communicate with people and connect with people

Speaker 2 you know that would be don't you think that would be really difficult to gauge somebody's performance if you if it's not in your native tongue right because I mean think about all the ways you can you can vary a reading of a line and the nuance of it and if you don't know the language that they're it's hard to read intonation i i can't i don't know maybe but here's here's the thing.

Speaker 3 I think as somebody that speaks, you know, different languages, but also understanding that English is a very distinct, you know, language, I feel like that exists mainly in English.

Speaker 3 Rather than like the romantic languages, it's more of

Speaker 3 it's more of a feeling than the words. Like, you know, like I was going to say,

Speaker 3 it's hard to explain.

Speaker 1 Jason, I don't know if you've ever heard of this, but love is a universal language wait what what's love tell me

Speaker 3 i know it's it's side dish

Speaker 3 when did you guys finish that we shot it uh we shot it summer of 2023 okay oh wow from april from april to like july right and we we wrapped right before the strike like a couple of days before the strike Are you so happy with it?

Speaker 1 By the way,

Speaker 1 it's in my notes to get to like at the end of this interview, but we're talking about it now.

Speaker 1 You, including three of your co-stars, won the award in Cannes for best, yeah, for best performances, right? It's pretty, pretty outstanding. I can't wait to see this.

Speaker 1 It looks because on paper, I was reading the description. It's like singing and dancing and this and that and other, but other like storylines that I want to give away, but like it sounds incredible.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and there's like danger and like a robbery or something too, right?

Speaker 1 Or like, I mean, it's got everything.

Speaker 3 You know, it dabbles in so many different genres and it doesn't stay in one place. And I feel like that, that just feels fresh.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 3 We all signed up to work with Jacqueline.

Speaker 3 I've been a fan of his work since I was a teenager. And he was, you know, one of those like top three directors in my bucket list that I felt would never happen.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 3 When this opportunity came, it's like a niche of a niche movie. It's in Spanish.
It's a musical. It centers around four women.

Speaker 3 The main character goes through a major transition, you know, trying to find herself. And

Speaker 3 everything about this felt dangerous and super risky so it was totally aligned with what i want to do with who i feel like i am you know and i want to reconnect with that part of me as an artist um i didn't think that it was going to be seen by many many people i just thought i was going to scratch something out of my bucket list and feel so happy that i collaborated with an amazing filmmaker gun was a surprise for us Isn't that amazing?

Speaker 2 Yeah, how was that there? Was it, was it just like all like the pomp and circumstance of that festival? And it was just like glamorous and fantastic all the way through it.

Speaker 1 It must have been amazing.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Well, I mean, and he is, you know, he's a fan favorite.
They're very proud of their own.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 3 so Cannes was a wonderful festival to premiere a media, but I think it's the movie.

Speaker 3 I think this movie feels really important and it's audacious and it's provocative and it's a bit campy and melodramatic.

Speaker 3 And those are things that I think audiences are wanting to have a little bit more of. Sometimes films can be so linear and

Speaker 3 that makes them a little,

Speaker 3 I don't know, cold, sterile. You know, stories sometimes can get really sterile when you try to do everything right.

Speaker 1 What if you throw everything away and you sort of go off script?

Speaker 3 Yeah. And you fall and you collaborate with your artists as opposed to sort of kind of being super stuck with a vision and this is the vision and this is the vision.

Speaker 3 Jacques sort of like is very much a traditional director, but he's also a person that is yearning to connect with people, you know, through cinema. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Otherwise, he would be locked up in his room, like just reading. That's he's an avid reader, he's an intellectual mind, and

Speaker 3 he's a bit shy in social gatherings. So, so cinema and storytelling is the way that he kind of connects with the world.

Speaker 3 And the way that he allows his artists and also every department to add to the story, it just felt, it felt like an experiment. And that within itself became the experience of Emilia Perez for us.

Speaker 1 Wow, that's so cool. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we will be right back.

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Speaker 2 And now back to the show.

Speaker 1 Zoe,

Speaker 1 you talk about bucket lists. Where did that bucket list start for you?

Speaker 1 Where and when? Where were you when you decided that you wanted to be a performer?

Speaker 3 It's funny.

Speaker 3 I'm a Gemini. I live a very absent-minded life.

Speaker 3 I don't make conscious decisions. I just go with the flow.
I knew what I didn't want to do.

Speaker 1 But when, sorry, sorry, like, but where was that? Like, where were you? Where did you grow up? Like, where?

Speaker 3 New York. I was born in New York.

Speaker 3 I was born in Jersey, but I don't like to say that closely.

Speaker 3 Well, because we're New Yorkers since 1961. Like, I'm a daughter of immigrants, and my grandma arrived there in 1961 and we're like native New Yorkers, right? So in New York, partially.

Speaker 3 And then at the age of 10, we moved to the Caribbean. So we did sort of like the reverse migration.
We went back to where my family's from.

Speaker 3 And I did, you know, my formative years, like from 10 to 17, 10 to 18, I lived there. And then we returned back to New York.
I think that.

Speaker 3 My the beginning of my bucket list happened unconsciously.

Speaker 3 I must have been like six or seven and James Cameron was probably the first name there oh wow along with like steven spielberg there were films that were very memorable to me when i was growing up because of the characters like sarah connor was this character that love just spoke to me she just and ellen ripley ellen ripley love it spoke to me she was just this amazing woman that found ways to survive against these extraterrestrials that were looking to use her body you know as a host and and what a gamble for james at the time or for anybody to stick a woman in the lead of that with that much power and strength.

Speaker 3 And for Steven Spielberg, you know, the ET man, the shark man to then, you know, direct the color purple. And

Speaker 3 Wobby Goldberg, this character became so, you know, when your little life is just bigger and brighter and more impactful.

Speaker 3 So I think that unconsciously I was tapping into art in the way that films were just taking me with them, you know, and

Speaker 3 making, building a reality for me that

Speaker 3 was healing, that was medicinal, you know, when I needed it. Like, I was very much, I'm one of three girls, but I, I'm a solitary person.

Speaker 3 Like, I, I, you know, and maybe, maybe there's a little bit of, I'm on the spectrum of some sort, I guess, but in the 80s, nobody really talked about that, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 But my sisters are able to sustain relationships and with friends and function.

Speaker 3 And I was sort of like this loner, you know, that was protected by my sisters because sometimes I would annoy people because of whatever

Speaker 3 was, you know, so art and storytelling became my go-to place.

Speaker 3 You know, reading books and science fiction and watching films and being these characters, you know, became really real to me. And it wasn't until like I was a teenager and I kept clashing.

Speaker 3 My dad died when I was nine.

Speaker 3 I'm telling you everything. I feel like chunk

Speaker 3 from the goonies, you know?

Speaker 1 Everything, everything.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'll try.

Speaker 1 That's great.

Speaker 3 But no, you know, my dad died, and my sisters and I, we were eight, nine, and ten. And that was like a big, you know, life-changing sort of event in our lives.

Speaker 3 And art became this healing sort of, you know, assistant to my mom and to us that really helped us.

Speaker 3 So they did, my dismissers became, like, she painted and Cicely and I, my younger sister, and I, we started dancing ballet.

Speaker 3 And, um, and that helped me sort of art, it helped me just cope with, with shit, you know, because

Speaker 3 life is hard when you're little, socializing, starting over in a new environment, different language, different people, different culture. Like, that's always like a very big thing for kids.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And

Speaker 1 I heard you say in an interview once that you, I don't know if you were joking or not, that you

Speaker 1 were kind of an arsonist at some point. Yes.

Speaker 1 Is that true?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 3 I have three boys and one of my boys

Speaker 3 just lives on his own. He's like this lone little wolf, and I guess I feel kindred to him.

Speaker 3 Yes,

Speaker 3 I would do weird shit that

Speaker 3 my mom,

Speaker 3 I think that my mom became an insomniac because of that because I would wake up in the middle of the night. I don't remember these things, by the way.

Speaker 3 Like she, now she's just jokingly, you know, mentioning them. And I'm just like, well, mom, that's some serious stuff.
She goes, I know, I know.

Speaker 3 Like, one time you just, you, you, you, I don't know if you were sleepwalking, you just turned on the hot water water and you got in the tub and you burned yourself.

Speaker 1 Oh, geez.

Speaker 3 It was like two o'clock in the morning and she was just like, is my kid crazy? Like, am I not really addressing this? Like, is my kid off?

Speaker 3 Like, I would turn on toasters and, or, like, you know, like, like, oh, turn on the stove and to boil an egg, but I wouldn't put water in the pot. I would just throw the eggs inside the pot.

Speaker 3 And I would like, I guess she said, and at one point, you like the way the, the eggs sounded when they broke inside the pot. And I, I was like, oh, how interesting.

Speaker 3 So I have a little one that does that.

Speaker 1 Well, it was like sleep. It was probably sleepwalking now.

Speaker 3 Or just curious, just a naturally curious child that probably needed a lot of verbal communication in order for me to understand my sense and my sensations. I was a sensory seeker.
I was always

Speaker 3 seeking things that cater to my

Speaker 3 ears and taste and my

Speaker 3 feelings.

Speaker 3 It's just sensory seeking, I guess.

Speaker 1 I want to know,

Speaker 1 I think we all want to know how you you started performing. Like, was it a school play or was it an inspiration from a show or a movie or something? Like, what was the thing that got you?

Speaker 1 What was that first

Speaker 1 thing that got you going performing?

Speaker 3 Um, I, I transitioned, I danced ballet for like 10 years and I realized that I couldn't break, I couldn't shatter my glass ceiling. I didn't have the feet.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And that became a very

Speaker 3 just painful confession to tell yourself, you know, but then it was like transition. I love storytelling and I was able to tell stories with my body.

Speaker 3 So I was in this little theater company in the city. Um, and I was, I was missing, I was playing Mrs.
Potafar from Joseph and the Amazing Technical

Speaker 1 Musical.

Speaker 3 And there was a manager.

Speaker 1 I was about to sing all the songs on it.

Speaker 1 Joseph,

Speaker 1 yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 It was such a great musical. And there was a manager there, and she signed me.
And I first started going to, like, I would book commercials.

Speaker 3 So my first gigs were doing, i did a burrican commercial two for two or something just the two of us and i remember i got my sad card from that commercial that's big though i mean that's a big it was it was

Speaker 3 and that's and that's when i knew i'm like what one i didn't want to do commercials i knew then and i was like i just want to i want to act i want to i want to play characters i want to tell stories i want to be other people well uh zoe the the amount of big huge budget spectacle films that you've done is

Speaker 2 a sounding yeah i mean i i don't know if anyone's done more.

Speaker 1 Well, Jason, I refer to you in the intro as the AAA actress, which means the top three movies of all time you're starring in,

Speaker 1 which is Avatar, Avatar, The Way of Water, and Avengers. You're probably the only actor in all three.
That's crazy.

Speaker 3 Today, today,

Speaker 3 I know that these records will always be

Speaker 2 astonishing. Then there's Guardians, and then there's

Speaker 1 Star Trek.

Speaker 2 Even like the the smaller films are cool. Like Out of the Furnace is one of my favorite movies of all time.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 I just think it's just stunningly good.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 I love center stage, Ben.

Speaker 2 Do you have a,

Speaker 2 I mean, I bet you'll say you like doing both, which I'm sure everybody would.

Speaker 2 But, you know, when you're on one of those big, huge movie sets, like you, you might not do much more than like a half a page over the course of a week, right?

Speaker 2 Where you're doing the smaller films, you're doing like five, six pages a day sometimes. And do you have a, do you have a preference?

Speaker 1 I mean, the big ones are expensive.

Speaker 2 I like everything.

Speaker 3 I think that, you know, that I'm going to answer the way you were expecting, but, you know,

Speaker 3 Avatar was really special in the sense that the way that we shoot it,

Speaker 3 I wish people can understand that the technology does not substitute

Speaker 3 the performances. It only supplements the performances.

Speaker 1 And you got things sticking out of your head and you're so real.

Speaker 3 I mean, you're like, and we go through months of training because it is, it's, it's basically Jim paints, you know, those pixel, pixelated, you know, things

Speaker 3 over what we do. So he's, it's not that we sit in a studio and we record like an animation.
It's like all the work that you do is the work that you see, you know, on avatar.

Speaker 3 And that form of acting is incredibly

Speaker 3 just exciting.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So what you guys do is you'll stand and you will perform the scene and they will shoot it with a camera just like normal. And then, and this is a question.

Speaker 2 And then afterwards, they then take that real footage, which usually is the movie that we all see, but they take that footage and then they create a digital version of your bodies and basically create effectively digitally animated characters from it.

Speaker 3 Yes. Okay.
But it's not an animator that is guessing,

Speaker 3 or estimating how you're moving. No, no, it is your performance because it's, they have these reference cameras.
Yeah. But they, but Jim has also created this like,

Speaker 3 you know, this, this, this gimbal of a camera. Yeah.

Speaker 3 that is the it's in pandora so when you're moving there they're all these big screens i let me know if i lose you when we're shooting we're shooting in a set that we call the volume and the reason why it's the volume is because all these cameras that are attached in the ceiling of our, of our, our set are pointing all through this sort of square, this space that's called the volume.

Speaker 3 So once you're in and you have all these dots and you have to, you ROM yourself in. So you, they enter you into the system.

Speaker 2 There's all these motion capture points on your body, yeah.

Speaker 3 And you're wearing this helmet that has these cameras here that are also then registering every single muscle on your face.

Speaker 3 So they sync all of that information and you then once you enter the volume, you're in Pandora on real time. So you and I can be talking, standing in the volume.

Speaker 3 And if we stare at the screens that he has all through the volume facing us, we're seeing ourselves as avatars in Pandora where we're standing. So

Speaker 3 what he does is he documents everything.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 his technicians that he works with people from Weta and New Zealand. And he has people from all over the world,

Speaker 3 but they're mainly here in Los Angeles and in New Zealand. They're just basically painting over what we're doing because it's already in the system.
Does that make sense? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And is the overall goal of that as opposed to like, let's say in Star Wars, you have like a real person

Speaker 2 mixed into

Speaker 2 a later

Speaker 2 down the line created digital environment. So you have a real person in a created digital environment.

Speaker 3 Like a green screen.

Speaker 1 Right. In Avatar,

Speaker 2 is the goal, the reason that he's taking you and putting you into a digital form so that your digital form is in the same medium as the digitally created environment as well, so that there's no difference between the,

Speaker 2 say, a human body in a digital form, in a digital environment in Star Wars versus with this, it's a digital

Speaker 2 form inside a digital environment. So everything is the same in the medium.

Speaker 2 Is that the reasoning?

Speaker 3 I think so.

Speaker 1 You kind of blew my mind there.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you know i was like i was like oh my god he's really taking it there um but yes yes that might be the if if what if what you're saying is what i'm understanding then yes

Speaker 1 will you call me later and explain it to me what he just said

Speaker 3 he's just trying to put everything in the same thing right yes well jim has always said that that putting a human being with an animation always felt um two different things unreal it did it looks different it's like it's like um who framed roger rabbert remember like how zemekis it's Zemekis, right?

Speaker 3 That's George Lucas. Is it Zemekis or Lucas that did Roger Zekis?

Speaker 2 Robert Zemekis.

Speaker 3 Robert Zemekis. Thank you.

Speaker 3 So these filmmakers have always been ahead of their time and they've always tried to sort of invent the technology that is able then to allow them to capture their vision. Jim is that same.

Speaker 3 I call them kind of scientists.

Speaker 3 Because they're inventing things that will later on down the line just evolve the way that we make films and the way that we view films, right?

Speaker 3 So for Jim, the challenge was to make a human being and an alien, an animated alien, look as if they were in the same medium. Yes.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 1 that was his goal. And he achieved it with Avatar.

Speaker 2 And you're doing number four and number five right now?

Speaker 3 And yes, we finished three. So now they're just, you know, they have a year now to basically render all of the information that we shot, everything that we shot.

Speaker 1 So, and how long did it take to shoot your scenes, the actor scenes? Well,

Speaker 3 I only play a Navi. I'm not an avatar.
So, ours is the shortest sort of shoot, and it takes anywhere between five to seven months to shoot.

Speaker 3 And then, after that,

Speaker 3 then they go to New Zealand and they spend a year there sometimes shooting live action. And they'll do the green screen, and then they'll assemble the whole thing in the same medium.

Speaker 3 And that takes a lot of time. It's,

Speaker 3 you know.

Speaker 1 I mean, the first time I saw it, I have to say, you know, we're getting to your other movies other than just Avatar, but your, your,

Speaker 1 your portrayal of Ney Tiri is like

Speaker 1 it was so real. I, I, and I, that had to be like when I went in, I was like, what's this gonna be about?

Speaker 1 I kind of like had a thing, and I was like, you know, that years and years ago when the first one came out, and I was like, wow, that's like

Speaker 1 that's Zoe being like being this person. It was wild to see, wild to see.

Speaker 3 And incredible. It's beautiful when actors collaborate with their filmmakers.

Speaker 3 And that was the very first time that I had an experience where I was cast very early on in the process of putting the Na'Vi together, you know, in terms of how do they walk? How do they speak?

Speaker 3 What is the, how, how do they speak English with a Navi accent? All these things.

Speaker 3 And I was like, I was 27 and working with.

Speaker 3 my childhood dream of a director, the Sarah Connor creator.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 he was allowing me to collaborate with with bringing the not V to life. So I was working with Cerque du Soleil performers and dialect people and stunned people.
Like, how do they fight?

Speaker 3 How do they move? You know, that tail, it's kind of like an extra limb. It felt like going to school or being in a laboratory and conceiving a brand new organ, like, you know, like life.

Speaker 1 Because I didn't expect to feel is what I meant to say. I didn't expect to feel as much as I felt.
I didn't expect to get emotional. And you did it.
So it's such a feat.

Speaker 1 By the way, sidebar, combined, your sci-fi films have earned over $4 billion at the box office.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. $4 billion.
Yeah. Isn't that amazing?

Speaker 1 Big deal. Yeah, you're the only actor in history to have starred in four films that have grossed over $2 billion individually.

Speaker 1 Can you

Speaker 1 wrap your head around that? What did you do? She's the only actor in history to have starred in four films that have grossed over $2 billion individually. Wow.
She's us. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I like that you say star.

Speaker 3 That's really nice.

Speaker 3 For half of those projects, I was a part of them, but

Speaker 3 I know, and I do,

Speaker 3 I feel fortunate to know that I've been a part of great projects that appeal to massive audiences.

Speaker 3 It

Speaker 3 gives me a sensation of like

Speaker 3 connection.

Speaker 3 Like I'm connecting with human beings that even though I will never ever meet them, I'm connected to them, to them somehow through the stories that impact them, that impact me by being a part of, you know, and, you know, I've always said this, it's not bad for, you know, a little brown girl from Queens.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 I feel, I feel excited.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 And now back to the show.

Speaker 2 Was there any other thing that you ever contemplated doing when you were a little girl?

Speaker 3 I love animals and children. So

Speaker 3 there's

Speaker 3 I think I would have gone into some form of like psychology for with and working with children.

Speaker 3 There's there's something about

Speaker 3 just understanding children and

Speaker 3 really looking at them for who they are and not overestimating them or underestimating them. That that is, you know, it's, it's always, it will always be my goal.

Speaker 3 It's to sort of go, oh my God, where are you? Who are you? What are you? And how can I reach you?

Speaker 3 You know, it doesn't mean I'm the best mom, but I wake up every day and that's like, that's the, the, the, the only role that I want to to pursue every day.

Speaker 1 How old are you guys?

Speaker 3 They're going, they're nine, nine, and seven.

Speaker 1 Nine, nine, and seven. Okay, nine, nine, and seven.
So, so now that you're a parent,

Speaker 1 is there anything that you recognize as being a very sort of American way of parenting as opposed to how you were raised and what you experienced?

Speaker 3 Oh, God, I love the American way of parenting. When it's, you know,

Speaker 3 in the sense of there's this curiosity to always evolve

Speaker 3 and figure out better ways of communication with children i love that i love that and and and you know this quest to to verbally just um

Speaker 3 you know

Speaker 3 create freedom where children can communicate their emotions and their feelings earlier and earlier.

Speaker 3 I love that about American ways of parenting and the Latino ways of parenting, I love because it's all heart.

Speaker 3 It's very much heart. The child is allowed to be dramatic and excessively dramatic.
Like it's just,

Speaker 3 how does that, you know, we talk about death, we normalize death and we don't, we don't sterilize it. We, we, it's passion.

Speaker 3 There's a lot of passion and fire in the way that we raise children, Latinos. But things that I can live without is this, you respect your superiors.
You don't, you don't question things.

Speaker 3 You just, I love that my kids question everything what's the italian way to raise oh my god it's it's just gelato every day yeah gelato every day and and you know it's it's a culture that's very you know it's very um i mean latinos and italians are very similar they're just affectionate the fathers are very affectionate with their children and i love that do you spend a lot of time over there in europe with your kids you guys we do we do you do and and marco i think it's so cool marco's your husband marco took your your last name.

Speaker 2 He did. Come on.

Speaker 1 That's so, that's so cool.

Speaker 2 Wait, walk me through that conversation.

Speaker 3 That came from him. I

Speaker 3 we get married. I had no intentions of changing my name, but we never discussed it.
It was just, I was, I just had it there.

Speaker 3 I'm like, in case the conversation comes up, I'm going to, I'm going to let him down slowly that I'm going to remain Zoe Saldana.

Speaker 3 And maybe throughout the years, if we earn it, then maybe I can take a Perigo somewhere.

Speaker 3 And he was immediately, he's like, I'm going to be Marco Perigo Saldane. And I'm like, are you sure?

Speaker 3 You should probably just do it, you know, in our personal lives, but keep your professional name, you know, as who you are. Society sometimes doesn't really understand.
He goes, I don't give a shit.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like, I'm proud of your name.

Speaker 3 I love your father's name, you know?

Speaker 1 What was the impetus for that, though, for him?

Speaker 3 For him, it was, I mean, I get emotional. My father died when I was nine.
And I've never, I mean, I have a, I have a wonderful stepdad that's been in our life since I was 13.

Speaker 3 And he's my dad, you know, but my, my, my biological father, that bond, that connection to your blood was lost, abruptly lost very early on. So it's not something you ever heal from.

Speaker 3 It's just you learn to manage that pain of loss. Right, right, right.
And when we, when we fell in love and we got married, he knows how strong of a presence my father still is in my life.

Speaker 3 Because as Latinos, we keep, we live with our dead, we live with them, we actively talk about them as if they're here, you know?

Speaker 1 Did your family or your mom, like, um, back then, like, uh, suggest therapy, like for a

Speaker 1 young child like yourself to go through such

Speaker 1 a things? Or did they, or did you get through it as a family and was like, no, we don't believe in that, we're going to get through this together.

Speaker 3 No, no, no, it was a combination of both. Because we were still, you know, we were still living in the States when he passed away.
And, and, um,

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 back in the 80s, public schools in New York were incredible. They were just incredible.
So immediately, as soon as we came back from the funeral, they bombarded us with just love and support.

Speaker 3 And for my mom as well, they, you know, they,

Speaker 3 my mom, you know, had places to go to and sort of cope with this and,

Speaker 3 you know, gain new tools on how to be like this single parent moving forward. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then when we went back to Dominican Republic, then that was when we moved there then to live.

Speaker 3 Then it was very much like, no, we stick together. God will always find his way.
So that had his, that had its good things and also bad things, you know, and

Speaker 3 my mom did feel very isolated at times when it came to just trying to talk to a professional, but the love and support was always abundant in our family, you know?

Speaker 1 Oh, that's great. That's great.
And,

Speaker 1 wait, if you don't mind, how did you meet your husband? I think he, didn't he hit on you on the plane once or something? And then you turned him down on the plane. How did he find you everywhere?

Speaker 3 He just, he's very Italian. And I, and I, you know, I'm, I love the Italian culture, but I'm also like, I'm keeping it at bay.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Like, it's, it's very, it's a very romantic and seductive culture. So he meets you and he's this like pirate looking, probably the most handsomest man I'll ever meet in my life.
And

Speaker 3 I met him on a plane, but we knew each other. We knew of each other through mutual friends.

Speaker 3 And it was always like, oh, there's there's that guy, there's that really handsome, hot motherfucking guy that I should always stay away from because he looks at you and he just has that suave look and everything.

Speaker 3 And when he talks to you, he had that little bitch. You know, they kind of hide their real manly voice.
And I'm like, Why are you such a high-pitched

Speaker 3 voice when you talk to me? And I'm a New Yorker, I'm very much like, Come on, man, talk to me.

Speaker 3 And, um, but he's gentle. My husband is a very gentle

Speaker 1 man. That's so great.
And you, and you teach, you teach your kids kids

Speaker 1 Spanish and Italian at home?

Speaker 3 I mean, we don't necessarily teach it. We just are.

Speaker 3 That's how

Speaker 3 we slip in and out of all these languages. That's so funny.
And it's funny because I grew up as like a daughter of immigrants where

Speaker 3 you live a double life. You feel like you're like 007, where in your house, you're like, hola, hola, and you're very Latina.

Speaker 3 And the moment you step out, you kind of go, adios, sort of, hey, what's up?

Speaker 1 How you doing? Like, you didn't learn to code switch, right?

Speaker 3 And because it's they're they're so hard on you like you don't forget your culture you don't forget where you come from and it was very much like that and i appreciate that today so what and then i marry an immigrant who's very much about i'm italian italian forever we're italians

Speaker 3 and and so when the boys were little they spoke only italian and spanish but as soon as they start going to school and I start dialoguing with them, I go into what feels very, you know, I'm

Speaker 3 very English oriented and the way that we bond. And then that's when my husband's family, because our folks live here in the States, and my parents also live in California.

Speaker 3 They were just like, you need to talk to them.

Speaker 3 And I had to kind of have an intervention. I'm like, y'all need to chill.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 You guys all chose to come here.

Speaker 3 We're all here. They are American as well as they are this and this.
So share, like, we're going to, I'm going to allow you guys to share who we are inherently, but they don't force them

Speaker 3 because we're eating in Italian and Spanish. We are dancing it, we are communicating it.
That's already enough.

Speaker 3 It's going to be there, but don't force it to them because then they're going to reject it.

Speaker 3 Like I tried to reject it when I was little, and they kind of like, it was a nice intervention because even my husband, I had to sit him down.

Speaker 3 I'm like, you need to like, you know, just lay off the gas a little bit.

Speaker 3 And now they understand it fluently. They'll speak it with their grandparents.
But with me, they speak mainly English.

Speaker 3 I do speak to them in Spanish a lot when we're in public, when I don't want people to know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then my husband does the same. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So, wait, I want to get back to career stuff because

Speaker 1 I'm obviously a massive fan. That's why you're here.
Shoot, I love that. But Lioness, season two, we'll talk about that in a second.
Here, that's Amelia Perez, we're going to watch tonight.

Speaker 1 Center stage, I loved it.

Speaker 1 I know, it was 2000, so long ago, but I loved that movie. And then after that, you did Crossroads with Britney Spears at such a young age when Britney was huge.

Speaker 1 Were you like, oh my God, I'm in a movie with Britney Spears? I mean, what year was that? That was like 2000?

Speaker 3 We started shooting right after, no, pardon me, we shot, we started shooting early 2001.

Speaker 1 One, okay.

Speaker 3 It was before 9-11.

Speaker 1 I remember that. Because you auditioned a lot when you came back from the

Speaker 1 Dominican Republic, and you were still so young when you're auditioning. Do you have any crazy audition stories?

Speaker 2 Did you have to do one for the Britney Spears thing? Did you have to read with her?

Speaker 3 I did, yes. I auditioned.
I mean, I auditioned for Amedia Paris, too. So,

Speaker 3 but it's more like an interview. Like, you just do a conversation.
I audition a lot. I remember I auditioned for a film that you were doing, Jason,

Speaker 3 years ago.

Speaker 1 I had nothing to do with it.

Speaker 3 No, no, it's okay. What was the one that you did about the funeral?

Speaker 1 The pale.

Speaker 2 Oh, this is where I leave you?

Speaker 1 Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 But I bombed. I was so bad.
I was so bad at that audition.

Speaker 1 Wasn't it terrible, right?

Speaker 2 You can practice as much as you want at home, and then you get in that room, and the nerves take over, and your inability to do what you planned on is just, oh, it's so frustrating.

Speaker 3 I hated that process.

Speaker 3 I really did because it really fed into my anxiety

Speaker 3 in a way that wasn't healthy. I just, you know, competition and,

Speaker 3 you know, fighting

Speaker 3 to prove who you are is so hard. I do remember that if it wasn't for just warm people, amazing casting directors, like New York has amazing casting directors that were just human beings.

Speaker 3 They were nice and gentle.

Speaker 3 And I loved walking in and feeling like they were rooting for me.

Speaker 3 Whenever I would put myself on tape, because remember, it was like, you have to put yourself on tape when you live in New York.

Speaker 3 That's what you got to do.

Speaker 3 And if it wasn't for the fact that people were nice, I would have never booked parts it's when people are super cold and they were so despondent and i would i would tamper freeze up it doesn't help

Speaker 1 it doesn't help and then you did by the way i mean we could spend two hours pirates of the caribbean the terminal with banks star trek uh marvel with guardians of the galaxy but i have to say um my husband scotty he's a massive massive massive star trek fan i'm more of a star wars but because of your films the only thing they fight about yeah but but because of your films and JJ and everybody involved, I was blown away by you and those films.

Speaker 1 They're so well made and completely gripping and suck you in

Speaker 1 the best way.

Speaker 2 Another one due soon, right? Another

Speaker 2 Star Trek movie?

Speaker 3 They're talking about it. And

Speaker 3 it would be nice. It would be nice for us to come back and sort of do a proper send-off to the next generation.

Speaker 3 Look, I don't honestly, I wish I had like a formula. I feel like the only thing

Speaker 3 that i that i that i kept doing was saying yes yeah well that's interesting you know was just like if if i was shooting avatar and all of a sudden my agents at the time were calling me like well jj abrams really wants to meet you for uhura he's he's gonna shoot this next star trek i was like uh who what you know i wasn't a star trek fan my mom was and um i was like okay but i'm i know and i'm like but i'm working and and and he's like well i think he's gonna come to set i think i'm like oh okay because I would, I would, I would go to the set of Avatar, and every day he's like, Oh, there's Robert Zimekas or Steven Spielberg, there's George Lucas, there's you know, they were always there, and and Jim was giving him the whole walkthrough, so it was very normal for us to see these amazing filmmakers.

Speaker 3 And one, you know, Jim walks on, walks, walks to set one day, goes, I have a surprise for you, and I think you're gonna owe me for this one. And I was like, What is he talking about? And JJ was there,

Speaker 3 and JJ was like, Hi, Zoe, and Jim like lets him, you know, touch the camera and do the whole tour. And then JJ's like, well, are you, I definitely want to meet you for Ahura, for Star Trek.

Speaker 3 And then, you know, JJ left and Jim just comes over and goes, you're welcome. And I'm like, for what?

Speaker 3 I wasn't really tapping into. And then I get the call, like, can you please play Ahura? I was like, absolute fucking lootly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Let me think about it.

Speaker 3 Yes. And then after that, it was just, and then after that, James Gunn comes over and, you know, years later and goes, can you play Gamour? I'm like,

Speaker 3 yeah, of course.

Speaker 3 and i said yes because i wanted to experience prosthetics yeah yeah makeup like waking up at three o'clock in the morning and going through the whole nutty professor transformation like yeah i was like i want to do that and then a month in i was like i hate this yeah yeah yeah you're two three hours sitting in the chair not doing anything being eating through a straw yeah oh what about the the series is a star trek series where those those people have to be in that every single day for one

Speaker 3 nine ten months a year i wouldn't be able to do it.

Speaker 1 It never doesn't make me laugh, though. The idea of a guy, of an actor in a Klingon, all the Klingon makeup, walking through craft service.
That always will make me laugh.

Speaker 1 Just like getting fried chicken and like, you know, getting to everything to put it in a blender right through a straw.

Speaker 3 Napkin, like collar napkin, always to not get makeup on their outfits.

Speaker 1 Wait, so all of the travels and all the places you've worked in the world, I want to ask where you would choose to live if you had to pick a place, either fictional or non-fictional?

Speaker 3 Paris.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? Yes. You love Paris.
I love Paris.

Speaker 3 Why? I love art. I love the fact that people are always outside.

Speaker 3 I love to walk. As a New Yorker, I just, I love to walk down streets of ancient, ancient, you know, history.
And I love eating and drinking wine. So it's just, it's really romantic.

Speaker 3 And there's something really nice about Paris, but also like when you go to Italy, because my second favorite place, Italy, and then it's the Caribbean.

Speaker 3 I'm from the Caribbean, I love a beach, I love the water. But

Speaker 3 there's just something very free about Europe that in the summers, you see people in love

Speaker 3 living in love in public,

Speaker 3 you know, and you'll see these younger couples like on the Vespa making out while you're like, you know,

Speaker 3 taking your kid for a walk. But then the same couple, you come back and they're in the same Vespa, and she's slapping the crap out of him

Speaker 3 and and and then all of a sudden he grabs her and shakes her and he kisses her and you're like

Speaker 1 that's so romantic and dramatic yes jason and i are going to do that later tonight oh yeah yeah which one do you want to be you want to be shaken or the shaker

Speaker 3 both both different

Speaker 1 um well listen i could talk to you for 19 hours we've taken up way too much of your time me too you guys thank you for this conversation i've enjoyed this. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 I can't wait to see the movie and Lioness.

Speaker 1 We didn't even talk about Lioness, but Nicole, you and Nicole Kidman love the show. It's second season.
Of course, you're getting a second season. So I can't wait.

Speaker 1 But thank you for being here. Gigantic fan.

Speaker 1 Thank you guys. Thank you for this conversation.
Anytime, I'll come back.

Speaker 1 Please do. Thank you so much.
Love you.

Speaker 2 All right. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Speaker 1 Bye.

Speaker 1 Bye, Sra.

Speaker 2 Oh, Shawnee.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I love her. I've gone to her forever.
And she's like, you know, how how many people can say, I know we already said it in the show. The biggest.

Speaker 1 I mean, the three,

Speaker 1 there's no other actor that was in the top three

Speaker 1 movies of all time. No.
There's no other actor. Isn't that wild?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's very wild.

Speaker 2 I mean, stunning accomplishment.

Speaker 1 You know what I was thinking about during it is that she's been in all those big, right? And then on the other end, I was in Brother Solomon. And if you think about the gap

Speaker 1 between. There's a lot of daylight in between.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of daylight. It's all daylight.
Let's be honest. But I didn't even get to the terminal.
Remember, she was in the terminal with Tom Hay? Terminal, yes. Anyway, she was great.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I really like her a lot, and I want to hang out with her. Sure.

Speaker 1 And to your point, Sean, I mean, it's such an accomplishment, you know? To my point. Well, welcome in.

Speaker 1 Maybe they mean Velkhomen. Velkomen.
Velkomen. By the way, if they were German, then I'm going to take it, obviously.
Stay close to the candles. Okay.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Anyway, she's wonderful. She's amazing.
She's amazing. She's one of a kind.
She is one of a kind.

Speaker 1 She's so rare,

Speaker 1 I would dare to say,

Speaker 1 do it. Be brave.

Speaker 1 You can feel it. This is where it's embarrassing, where you can feel it.
Is that she's so, you know, people who have been in so many huge films like that, they're not every day.

Speaker 1 In fact, they're pretty hard to

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Speaker 1 Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. They go perfectly with music,

Speaker 1 podcasts, and welcome back to the show. Even Nature Sounds.

Speaker 1 Oh, and the thing where someone crinkles tissue and whispers at you.

Speaker 1 Hello. Look, I'm not here to judge what you listen to.
I'm here to judge you for not eating Reese's while you listen to it. Reese's.

Speaker 1 Ashley, go back to the nature sounds.

Speaker 1 Nice. Yeah, that's really nice.