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So hello here. This is a cold open to our upcoming episode of Smartless.
The cold open is, Jason, the cold open is...

This is where we do a little bit of banter.

Have we prepared anything?

Have we prepared nothing?

Can we just get a suggestion from the audience?

What is it?

That'd be great.

Bananas!

Okay, so bananas is the prompt.

Yeah, right.

It makes me think of...

What it makes me think of...

Is breakfast?

Breakfast.

Welcome to SmartList.

Terrible. Terrible cold open.
Smart. Less.
Smart. Less.
Smart. Less.
Hey, Sean.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything you'd like to say to the listening world?

I did go recently with me and Scotty and two other friends to an escape room.

And it was, have you ever been?

Was it inside your house?

Well, you know why I haven't been?

Because you know who went to an escape room this weekend?

Nash for his seventh birthday.

Couldn't get in. There were too

many seventh graders in there.

You know what else Nash is into?

Lightsabers.

Star Wars.

But I like the problem solving of escape rooms.

Do you have a mirror close by? I need you

to look in the mirror right now. I need you to

fucking have a conversation with yourself

right now and say

fuck it dude. I blew it.
Have you ever done it? You blew it! Have you ever done it? I don't think I have. Yes, I have.
After all that, yes. Well, with your kids, though, right? I did it with the kids, but I will say it's really fun and it's hard.
Click and just hang up. Here's part of the other thing that people don't understand.
Because I haven't done one in years, and it was great. Is that, well, you were in that real, right? Weren't you in some guy, he built a thing in his basement, and he tried to put you in there.
You were in there for like 18 months or some shit. That was a gag ball.
But that was consensual. Hey, where can I get out of here? Wasn't there some something that he wanted you to put lotion in the basket or something?

What happened with that?

Yes, I'm telling you it was consensual.

I forget the detail.

Remember you telling me once.

Anyway, that's an escape room.

But I will say that we like to give each other shit because I was thinking about,

I give you shit, I rip on it, like, no, it's for fucking kids, blah, blah, blah.

And, of course, I've done it myself.

And so people sometimes will go like, you guys are just too mean or whatever. I'm like, yeah, we're fucking around, man.
We're just having a laugh. You know what I really enjoyed with the kids is laser tag.
Have you guys done those ones? Yes, I have. I won with a bunch of 12-year-olds.
I won. Yeah, no, no.
Here comes Sean again with another adult play date. I did it with Bella Bajaria for her birthday.
You did it with Bella, Netflix's greatest Bella Bajaria. Yeah, yeah.
We did it for her birthday one year. Come on.
Yeah, it was my call. There was a long time ago.
Remember when it was really fun? Remember when everybody was like super hipster and it was like, hey, we're going to go and do kickball, adult kickball league. Then we're going to go do laser tag and then we all drive like old BMX bikes.
Yes. I've got an ironic bicycle.
Do you have an ironic bicycle? You know what I mean? Wait, did you do paintball? I did my oldest brother, Dennis, for his wedding. I was the best man.
Oh, yeah. You know what? I did paintball training for a movie once.
Paintball. Yeah, when we did Kingdom.
We had to go out and do paintball fights. And it was really, really scary getting hunted by someone.
I was talking to the kids when paintballing last week. I was just talking to them on the way to school today about paintball.
It's fun, right? I've never done it. I've always wanted to do it.
Oh, it's really painful. I killed somebody with a real gun.
Oh, welcome to Smartless. Let's get to the guest.
Let's get to the guest. I do want to get to the guest.
Let's get to the guest. I's been waiting.
I want to get to the guest too, but hang on.

I just want to say, here's the thing.

I was just going to go on a couple things about,

do we have a segment yet called just Stuff I Hate, or should we?

Yeah, we absolutely should.

Pretty kind of unofficially covered every week with you.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

In the body of the show.

It's a new expression that I'm adding to Storyteller,

which is everywhere you go now.

And I think it started in the... In the body of the show.
It's a new expression that I'm adding to Storyteller,

which is everywhere you go now.

And I think it started in the golf world, I think,

but it's everywhere, and it drives me fucking crazy.

Welcome in.

Welcome in.

Phrases that we'd like to never hear again.

Have you heard people say welcome in?

I haven't had that one. They go, welcome in.

Why are we saying in? Just say welcome. If you feel the need to say, just say welcome.
Wait, two that I have that I don't like is because I watch a lot of football now, as you know. Have a day.
Have a day. Well, I said this the other day.
All the announcers always go, we got some play action. They like just saying play action.
Just say they have the ball or whatever they're doing. I brought that up.
I brought that up to our friend that we did the show with, JB. I brought that up to Peyton Manning last week.
Yeah. Yeah, I brought up.
I said that you hated that they overuse play action. Play action, yeah.
Yeah. Because they make it.
And then when you're on a flight, they go, Stewardess, cross check, cross check and something.

Cross check.

Cross check.

Yeah, cross check.

Is the door secure or not?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why don't you just check the door?

You know what I'm glad

they're not saying much more,

much anymore,

is touch base.

Yeah.

Great.

Let me touch base.

Yeah.

By the way,

I'm going to circle back.

I'm going to circle back.

Circle back

or in the theater world,

they say, oh, it's in a great space. Oh, we found a great space to do that piece.
If we're going to go deep, if we're going to go deep these days, A, welcome in. Again, I guess it feels kind of folksy, but the other thing that has exploded in the last couple of years.
Breathe well. Well, for the five years before, it was people all of a sudden discovered the word narrative who didn't know it and they used it overused it that's true but the other one is to your point everybody go to his point oh but I say it all the time on this show I know you say it a lot you sound like a moron it has been you do and it is so overused no but I because you want.
The one that's very overused now is right. Very educated people will be telling a story, and we're going along, right, and blah, blah, blah, blah, right.
And it's like, no, you don't need to keep pulling me along with right. I'm with you.
I'm nodding. Pulling me along.
I think that that's been around for a while, though. I feel like— It's used much, much, much more often now.
Oh, my God. You guys, we have to get to the guest.
Guest, we're going to get to you in a second. Just sit tight.
Okay, so I know that I complain a lot, and all of that shit drives me crazy, and I'm sorry. So thank you for bringing— However, you know what does drive me crazy? What? You know what I'm really excited about? Sean, you know what I'm going to say.

Uh-oh.

It's the new SmartList Media.

Clueless.

Clueless.

It's a new show.

Don't leave me hanging when I say it.

I set you up.

I know, but I wanted to give it to you.

Could it be called a podlet?

Oh, it's a podlet.

Oh, it is.

It's only like 10 minutes long.

Yes, that's great.

It's a little podlet, Jason.

You are, I would smooch you right now. So this is a new podlet called Smartless Presents Clueless.
Just a million little kisses. I'm going to smooch you.
So, yeah, so that's great. It's a podlet.
It is called Smartless Presents Clueless, and it's a bite-sized twice-weekly puzzle pod. Because there's a bunch of puzzles.
Like, if you like Wordle and stuff like that and the New York Times crosswords,

you'll love this.

They're 10 to 12 minute podlets.

It's really fun.

The host is Elliot Kalin.

He's the former head writer

of The Daily Show

with Jon Stewart.

So you're the permanent contestant

or the permanent host?

Permanent contestant.

You're a permanent contestant

and then other contestants come

and they work in conjunction with you. And you guys did the first show.
We did it. Yes.
I was kind of clueless about what it was about until I got on it. Very, very nice.
So every Monday and Thursday, don't miss the fun. You can subscribe to Clueless wherever you get your podcasts.
Anyway, let's get on to the guest. Smart list.
Yeah. My guest today, this is very exciting.
This is a long time coming for me. Huge fan.
My guest today is a box office powerhouse. I refer to her as the triple A actress.
I'll explain in a little bit. In the early 2000s, you might remember her as a ballet dancer trying to get picked for the American Ballet Academy in New York City or from taking a cross-country road trip with Britney Spears.
Huh? Anything? However, her recent notable characters are mostly blue and green in complexion. And I can't wait for the new movie to come out.
I can't wait to talk about it. And although she herself is hip and cool, every sci-fi nerd like me knows who she is.
It's the magnetic, the most incredible, Zoe Saldana. Zoe Saldana.
Hello there. Good morning.

I'm so excited.

This is so exciting for me.

First of all, it was exciting to listen to you guys talk.

I was like mesmerized.

We're just like a normal conversation.

We're always nervous that we're like,

the person is sitting there thinking like,

these guys are ding-dong.

Hey, I'm so excited to see Amelia Perez.

I have it.

Yeah, I'm seeing it tomorrow.

Well, should we watch it tonight?

Do you have it?

Yes.

Yeah.

Oh my God, please watch it tonight.

Okay.

And then where should we email our notes?

Because you guys aren't locked yet, right?

We'll get them to you just in time.

You guys can do pickups, right?

I'll give you my email and then you can, I'll forward it to Jacques. Actually, I'll give you Jacques O'Diard's email, and you can send it to him.
Google translated to French, though. He doesn't speak English.
Is that true? Was all the communication via an interpreter during the film? Yes. Yes, we had many interpreters, and there were many languages spoken.
It was Spanish and English and French and some Italian. And are you bilingual? Do you speak all of those? I'm kind of.
I was raised bilingual, but I'm kind of trilingual now because my husband's Italian. Oh, wow.
And I picked it up after so many years. Wow.
Also, always figuring out whether or not he was hustling me. Italians are hustlers.
Wait, wait, wait. It speaks flow.
What is that? No, but it was great. But Jack is known for, you know, working outside of his language.
This is not the first foreign, you know, film that he's done. a film called Deepan, which was with these Indian actors.
And then he did a film years before called A Prophet. And that had some Arabic as well.
He's not defied by language. He likes to kind of connect with human beings.
Oh, wow. That's cool.
And challenge himself. And when it comes to whether or not they speak the same tongue, he just likes to find ways to communicate with people and connect with people.
I love that. You know, that would be, don't you think that would be really difficult to gauge somebody's performance if it's not in your native tongue, right? Because, I mean, think about all the ways you can vary a reading of a line and the nuance of it.
And if you don't know the language that they're, it's hard to read intonation. I don't know.
Maybe, but here's the thing. I think as somebody that speaks different languages, but also understanding that English is a very distinct language, I feel like that exists mainly in English.
Rather than like the romantic languages, it's more of a feeling than the words. I was going to say.
It's hard to explain. Jason, I don't know if you've ever heard of this, but love is a universal language.
Wait, what's love? Tell me what it is. I know, it's side dish.
When did you guys finish that? We shot it summer of 2023. From April to July, and we wrapped right before the strike.
Like a couple of days before the strike. Are you so happy with it? By the way, it's in my notes to get to at the end of this interview, but we're talking about it now.
You, including three of your co-stars, won the award in Cannes for best performances, right? It's pretty outstanding. I can't wait to see this.
Because on paper, I was reading the description. It was like singing and dancing and this and that and other, but other like storylines that I want to give away.
But like, it sounds incredible. Yeah, and there's like danger and like a robbery or something too, right? Or like, I mean, it's got everything.
You know, it dabbles in so many different genres and it doesn't stay in one place. And I feel like that, that just feels fresh.
Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah.
We all signed up to work with Jacques Odiar.

I've been a fan of his work since I was a teenager. And he was, you know, one of those, like, top three directors in my bucket list that I felt would never happen.
Right. When this opportunity came, it's like a niche of a niche movie.
It's in Spanish. It's a musical.
It centers around four women. And the main character goes through a major transition, you know, trying to find herself.
And everything about this felt dangerous and super risky. So it was totally aligned with what I want to do, with who I feel like I am, you know, and I want to reconnect with that part of me as an artist.
I didn't think that it was going to be seen by many, many people. I just thought I was going to scratch something out of my bucket list and feel so happy that I collaborated with an amazing filmmaker.
Cannes was a surprise for us. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, how was that there? Was it just like all the pomp and circumstance of that festival it was just like glamorous and fantastic all the way through it.

It must have been amazing.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, and he is, you know, he's a fan favorite.

They're very proud of their own, you know.

So Cannes was a wonderful festival to premiere Amelia.

But I think it's the movie.

I think this movie feels really important.

And it's audacious. And it's provocative.
and it's a bit campy and melodramatic. And those are things that I think audiences are wanting to have a little bit more of.
Sometimes films can be so linear and that makes them a little, I don't know, cold, sterile. You know, stories sometimes can get really sterile when you try to do everything right.
What if you throw everything away and you sort of go off script and you fall and you collaborate with your artists as opposed to sort of kind of being super stuck with a vision and this is the vision and this is the vision. Jacques sort of like is very much a traditional director, but he's also a person that is yearning to connect with people, you know, through cinema.
Yeah. Otherwise, he would be locked up in his room, like just reading.
He's an avid reader. He's an intellectual mind.
And he's a bit shy in social gathering. So cinema and storytelling is the way that he kind of connects with the world.
And the way that he allows his artists and also every department to add to the story, it just felt like an experiment. And that within itself became the experience of Emilia Perez for us.
Wow, that's so cool. Yeah.
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Zoe, you talk about bucket lists. Where did that bucket list start for you? Where and when? Where were you when you decided that you wanted to be a performer? It's funny.
I'm a Gemini. I live a very absent-minded life.
I don't make conscious decisions. I go with the flow.
I knew what I didn't want to do. Sorry, but where was that? Where were you? Where did you grow up? New York.
I was born in New York. I was born in Jersey, but I don't like to say that.
Close enough. Well, because we're New Yorkers since 1961.
I'm a daughter of immigrants, and my grandma arrived there in 1961, and we're, like, native New Yorkers, right? So in New York, partially. And then at the age of 10, we moved to the Caribbean.
So we did sort of, like, the reverse migration. We went back to where my family's from.
And I did, you know, my formative years, like, from 10 to 17, 10 to 18, I lived there. And then we returned back to New York.
I think that the beginning of my bucket list happened unconsciously. I must have been like six or seven and James Cameron was probably the first name there.
Oh, wow. Along with like Steven Spielberg.
There were films that were very memorable to me when I was growing up because of the characters. Like Sarah Connor was this character that just spoke to me.
She just, and Ellen Ripley. Ellen Ripley spoke to me.
She was just this amazing woman that found ways to survive against these extraterrestrials that were looking to use her body, you know, as a host. And what a gamble for James at the time or for anybody to stick a woman in the lead with that much power and strength.
And for Steven Spielberg, the E.T. man, the shark man, to then direct the color purple.
And Whoopi Goldberg, this character became so... When your little life is just bigger and brighter and more impactful.
So I think that unconsciously I was tapping into art in the way that films were just taking me with them, you know, and making, building a reality for me that was healing, that was medicinal, you know, when I needed it. Like, I was very much, I'm one of three girls, but I, I'm a solitary person.
Like I, you know, and maybe, maybe there's a little bit of, I'm on the spectrum of some sort, I guess. But in the eighties, nobody really talked about that, you know, but my sisters are able to sustain relationships and with friends and function.
And I was sort of like this loner, you know, that was protected by my sisters because sometimes I would annoy people because of whatever it was, you know. So art and storytelling became my go-to place, you know, reading books and science fiction and watching films and being these characters, you know, became really real to me.
And it wasn't until like I was a teenager and I kept clashing. My dad died when I was nine.
I'm telling you everything. I feel like Chunk from The Goonies, you know.
Everything, everything. Okay, I'll try.
That's great. But no, you know, my dad died and my sisters and I, we were eight, nine, and ten.
And that was like a big, you know, life-changing sort of event in our lives. And art became this healing sort of, you know, assistant to my mom and to us that really helped us.
So they did, my sisters became, she painted and Cicely and I, my younger sister and I, we started dancing ballet. And that helped me sort of, it helped me just cope with shit, you know, because life is hard when you're little, socializing, starting over in a new environment, different language, different people, different culture.
Like, that's always like a very big thing for kids. Yeah.
I heard you say in an interview once that you, I don't know if you were joking or not, that you were kind of an arsonist at some point. Yes.
Is that true? Well, I have three boys, and one of my boys just lives on his own. He's like this lone little wolf, and I guess I feel kindred to him.
Yes, I would do weird shit that my mom, I think that my mom became an insomniac because I would wake up in the middle of the night. I don't remember these things, by the way.
Now she's just jokingly mentioning them. And I'm just like, well, mom, that's some serious stuff.
She goes, I know, I know. One time you just, I don't know if you were sleepwalking, you just turned on the hot water and you got in the tub and you burned yourself.
Oh, geez. It was at two o'clock in the morning and she was just like, is my kid crazy? Like, am I not really addressing this? Like, is my kid off? Like I would turn on toasters and, or like, you know, like, like, oh, turn on the stove and to boil an egg, but I wouldn't put water in the pot.
I would just throw the eggs inside the pot. I would like, I guess she said, and at one point you liked the way the eggs sounded when they broke inside the pot.
And I was like, oh, how interesting. So I have a little one that does that.
Well, it was like sleep, it was probably sleepwalking, no? Or just curious, just a naturally curious child that probably needed a lot of verbal communication in order for me to understand my sensations. I was a sensory seeker.
I was always, like, seeking things that catered to my ears and taste and my feelings. It's just sensory seeking, I guess.
I want to know, I think we all want to know, how you started performing. Like, was it a school play or was it an inspiration from a show or a movie or something? Like, what was the thing that got you, what was that first thing that got you going performing? I transitioned, I danced ballet for like 10 years.
And I realized that I couldn't break, I couldn't shatter my glass ceiling. I didn't have the feet.
And that became a very just painful confession to tell yourself, you know? But then it was like transition. I love storytelling.
I was able to tell stories with my body. So I was in this little theater company in the city.
And I was i was miss i was playing mrs potifar from joseph and the amazing yeah yeah yeah yeah musical and there was a manager i was about to sing all the songs but joseph yeah exactly it's such a great musical and there was a manager there and she signed me and i first started going to like i would book commercials so So my first gigs were doing, I did a Burger King commercial, two for two or something. Just the two of us.
And I remember I got my SAG card from that commercial. Yeah, but that's big, though.
I mean, that's a big deal. It was.
That's a big deal. And that's when I knew, I'm like, one, I didn't want to do commercials.
I knew then. And I was like, I just want to act.
I want to play characters. I want to tell stories.
I want to be other people. Zoe, the amount of big, huge budget spectacle films that you've done is...
Astounding. Yeah.
I mean, I don't know if anyone's done more than you. Well, Jason, I referred to you in the intro as the AAA actress, which means the top three movies of all time you're starring in, which is Avatar, Avatar the Way of Water, and Avengers.
You're probably the only actor in all three. That's crazy.
Today, I know that these records will always be... But that's astonishing.
Then there's Guardians, and then there's... Yeah, it's pretty incredible.
Star Trek. But even the the smaller films are cool.
Like Out of the Furnace is one of my favorite movies of all time. Oh, my God.
It was such a good story. I just think it's just stunningly good.
And Center Stage. I love Center Stage, by the way.
Do you have a—I mean, I bet you'll say you like doing both, which I'm sure everybody would. But when you're on one of those big, huge movie sets, you might not do much more than a half a page over the course of a week, right? Where you're doing the smaller films, you're doing five, six pages a day sometimes.
Do you have a preference? I mean... The big ones are exciting.
I like everything. I think that I'm going to answer the way you were expecting, but Avatar you know, Avatar was really special in the sense that the way that we shoot it, I wish people can understand that the technology does not substitute the performances.
It only supplements the performances. Totally.
And you got things sticking out of your head and you're so real. I mean, you're like in it.
And we go through months of training because it's basically Jim paints, you know, those pixelated things over what we do. So it's not that we sit in a studio and we record like an animation.
It's like all the work that you do is the work that you see you know on avatar and that form of acting is incredibly um just exciting yeah so what you guys do is you'll stand and you will perform the scene and they will shoot it with a camera just like normal and then and there's a question and then afterwards they then take that real footage which usually is is the movie that we all see but they take that footage and then they create a digital version of your bodies and basically create effectively digitally animated characters from it yes okay but it's not an animator that is guessing you know or estimating how you're moving no no it is your performance because it's they have these reference cameras yeah but they but jim has also created this like you know this this this gimbal of a camera yeah that is though it's in pandora so when you're moving there there are all these big screens. Let me know if I lose you.
When we're shooting, we're shooting in a set that we call the volume. And the reason why it's the volume is because all these cameras that are attached in the ceiling of our set are pointing all through this sort of square, this space that's called the volume.
So once you're in and you have all these dots and you have to, you ROM yourself in so they enter you into the system. So it's all these motion capture points on your body, yeah? And you're wearing this helmet that has these cameras here that are also then registering every single muscle on your face.
So they sync all of that information and you then then once you enter the volume, you're in Pandora on real time. So you and I can be talking, standing in the volume.
And if we stare at the screens that he has all through the volume facing us, we're seeing ourselves as avatars in Pandora where we're standing. So what he does is he documents everything.
And his technicians, he works with people from Weta and New Zealand, and he has people from all over the world, but they're mainly here in Los Angeles and in New Zealand. They're just basically painting over what we're doing because it's already in the system.
Does that make sense? Yeah, and is the overall goal of that as opposed to like, let's say in Star Wars you have like a real person mixed into a later down the line created digital environment. So you have a real person in a created digital environment.
Like a green screen. Right.
In Avatar, is the goal, the reason that he's taking you and putting you into a digital form so that your digital form is in the same medium as the digitally created environment as well. So that there's no difference between the, say, a human body in a digital environment in Star Wars versus with this, it's a digital form inside a digital environment.
So everything is the same in the medium. Is that the reasoning? I think so.
You kind of blew my mind there. I was like, oh my God, he's really taking it there.
Yes, yes. If what you're saying is what I'm understanding, then yes.
Will you Will you call me later and explain it to me, what he just said? I was just trying to put everything in the same thing, right? Yes. Well, Jim has always said that putting a human being within animation always felt unreal.
Two different things. It looks different.
It's like Who Framed Roger Rabbit. You remember how Zeme? You remember like how Zemeckis, it's Zemeckis, right? That's, that's George Lucas.
Is it Zemeckis or Lucas that did Roger Rabbit? Robert Zemeckis. Robert Zemeckis.
Thank you. Um, so these filmmakers have always been ahead of their time and they've always tried to re sort of invent the technology that is able then to allow them to, to capture their vision.
that same. I call them kind of scientists.
Because they're inventing things that will later on down the line just evolve the way that we make films and the way that we view films, right? So for Jim, the challenge was to make a human being and an alien, an animated alien, look as if they were in the same medium, yes. So that was his goal, and he achieved it with Avatar.
And you're doing number four and number five right now? Yes, we finished three, so now they're just, you know, they have a year now to basically render all of the information that we shot, everything that we shot. So how long did it take to shoot your scenes, the actor scenes? Well, I'm only, I only play a Na'vi.
I'm not an avatar. So ours is the shortest sort of shoot.
And it takes anywhere between five to seven months to shoot. Wow.
And then after that, then they go to New Zealand and they spend a year there sometimes shooting live action. and they'll do the green screen.
And then they'll assemble the whole thing in the same medium. Incredible.
And that takes a lot of time. Incredible.
It's, you know. I mean, the first time I saw it, I have to say, you know, we're getting to your other movies other than just Avatar.
But your portrayal of Neytiri is like, it's so real. Like when I went in, I was like, like what's this going to be about I kind of like had a thing and I was like you know that years and years ago when the first one came out and I was like wow that's like that's Zoe being like being this person it was wild to see and incredible it's beautiful when actors collaborate with their filmmakers And that was the very first time that I had an experience where I was cast very early on in the process of putting the Na'vi together.
You know, in terms of how do they walk? How do they speak? How do they speak English with a Na'vi accent? All these things. And I was 27 and working with my childhood dream of a director, the Sarah Connor creator.
And he was allowing me to collaborate with bringing the Navi to life. So I was working with Cirque du Soleil performers and dialect people and stunt people.

Like, how do they fight?

How do they move?

You know, that tail, it's kind of like an extra limb. It felt like going to school or being in a laboratory and conceiving a brand new organ.

Like, you know, life.

Totally.

Because I didn't expect to feel, is what I meant to say.

I didn't expect to feel as much as I felt.

I didn't expect to get emotional.

And you did it.

So, you know, it was great. Because I didn't expect to feel, is what I meant to say.
I didn't expect to feel as much as I felt. I didn't expect to get emotional.
And you did it. So, you know, it's such a feat.
Thank you. By the way, sidebar, combined, your sci-fi films have earned over $4 billion at the box office.
$4 billion. Yeah.
Isn't that amazing? I hope you have a great deal. Yeah, you're the only actor in history to have starred in four films that have grossed over $2 billion individually.
$2 billion? Can you even wrap your head around it? What did you just say? She's the only actor in history to have starred in four films that have grossed over two billion dollars individually. Two billion? Wait, what did you just say? She's the only actor in history to have starred in four films that have grossed over two billion dollars individually.
Wow. Jesus.
Yeah. I like that you say starred.
That's really nice. For half of those projects, I was a part of them, but I do.
I feel fortunate to know that I've been a part of great projects that appeal to massive audiences. It gives me a sensation of connection.
I'm connecting with human beings that even though I will never, ever meet them, I'm connected to them somehow through the stories that impact them, that impact me by being a part of. And I've always said this, it's not bad for a little brown girl from Queens.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel excited.
We'll be right back. Our show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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And now back to the show. Was there any other thing that you ever contemplated doing when you were a little girl? I love animals and children.
So there's... Two groups I love to work with.
I think I would have gone into some form of like psychology and working with children. Wow's there's something about just understanding children and and um really looking at them for who they are and not overestimating them or underestimating them that that is you know it's it's always it will always be my goal it's to sort of go oh my god where are you are you? Who are you? What are you? And how can I

reach you? You know, it doesn't mean I'm the best mom, but I wake up every day and that's like, that's the only role that I want to pursue every day. How old are you guys? They're going, they're nine, nine, and seven.
Wow. Okay.
Nine, nine, and seven. So now that you're a parent, is there anything that you recognize as being a very sort of American way of parenting as opposed to how you were raised and what you experienced? Oh, God.
I love the American way of parenting. in the sense of there's this curiosity to always evolve and figure out better ways of communication with children.
I love that. Yeah, that's cool.
And, you know, this quest to verbally just, you know, create freedom where children can communicate their emotions and their feelings earlier and earlier. I love that about American ways of parenting and the Latino ways of parenting.
I love because it's all, it's all heart. It's very much heart.
So the child is allowed to be dramatic and excessively dramatic. Like it's just, you know, we talk about death, we normalize death.
And we don't sterilize it. It's passion.
There's a lot of passion and fire in the way that we raise children, Latinos. But things that I can live without is this, you respect your superiors, you don't question things.
You just, I love that my kids question everything. What's the Italian way to raise? Oh my God.
It's just gelato every day. Gelato every day and, you know, it's a culture that's very, you know, it's very, I mean, Latinos and Italians are very similar.
They're just affectionate. The fathers are very affectionate with their children and I love that.
Do you spend a lot of time over there in Europe with your kids? Do you guys come over there? We do. We do.
You do? And Marco, I think it's so cool. Marco's your husband.
Marco took your last name. He did.
Come on. That's so cool.
Walk me through that conversation. That came from him.
We get married. I had no intentions of changing my name, but we never discussed it.
I just had it there. I'm like, in case the conversation comes up, I'm going to let him down slowly that I'm going to remain Zoe Saldana.
And maybe throughout the years, if we earn it, then maybe I can take a Perigo somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he was immediately, he's like, I'm going to be Marco Perigo Saldaña. Wow.
And I'm like, are you sure? You should probably just do it, you know, in our personal lives, but keep your professional name, you know, as who you are. Society sometimes doesn't really understand.
He goes, I don't give a shit. Yeah.
Like, I'm proud of your name.

I love your father's name, you know? What was the impetus for that, though, for him, do you think? For him, it was, I mean, I get emotional. My father died when I was nine.
And I've never, I mean, I have a wonderful stepdad that's been in our lives since I was 13. And he's my dad, you know.
But my biological father, that bond, that connection to your blood was lost, abruptly lost very early on. So it's not something you ever heal from.
It's just you learn to manage that pain of loss. Right, right, right.
And when we fell in love and we got married, he knows how strong of a presence my father still is in my life. Because as Latinos, we live with our dead.
We live with them. We actively talk about them as if they're here, you know? Did your family or your mom back then suggest therapy for a young child like yourself to go through such- We did it, yeah.
Or did you get through it as a family and were like, no, we don't believe in that, we're going to get through this together? No, no, no. It was a combination of both.
Yeah, that's good. Very smart.
We were still living in the States when he passed away. And back in the 80s, public schools in New York were incredible.
They were just incredible. So immediately, as soon as we came back from the funeral, they bombarded us with just love and support.
And for my mom as well, they, you know, they, my mom, you know, had places to go to and sort of cope with this and, you know, gain new tools on how to be like this single parent moving forward. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then when we went back to Dominican Republic, then that was when we moved there then to live. Then it was very much like, no, we stick together.
God will always find his way. So that had his, that had its good things and also bad things, you know? And my mom did feel very isolated at times when it came to just trying to talk to a professional, but the love and support was always abundant in our family.
Oh, that's great. That's great.
And wait, if you don't mind, how did you meet your husband? I think he, didn't he hit on you on the plane once or something? And then you turned him down on the plane. How did he find you? Well, he just, he's very Italian.
And I, you know, I love the Italian culture, but I'm also like I'm keeping it at bay.

You know what I mean?

Like it's a very romantic and seductive culture.

So he meets you and he's this like pirate looking, probably the most handsomest man I'll ever meet in my life.

And I met him on a plane, but we knew each other.

We knew of each other through mutual friends.

And it was always like, oh, there's that guy.

There's that really handsome, hot motherfucking guy that I should always stay away from. Because he looks at you and he just has that suave look and everything.
And when he talks to you, he had that little, you know, they kind of hide their real manly voice. And I'm like, why are you such a high-pitched voice when you talk to me? And I'm a New Yorker.
I'm very much like, come on, man, talk to me. Yeah, yeah.
But he's gentle. My husband is a very gentle man.
That's so great. And you teach your kids Spanish and Italian at home? I mean, we don't necessarily teach it.
We just are. They catch up on it.
That's how we slip in and out of all these languages. That's so cool.
And it's funny because I grew up as like a daughter of immigrants where you live a double life. You feel like you're like 007, where in your house you're like, hola, abuela, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And you're very Latina. And the moment you step out, you kind of go, adios.
Hey, what's up? How you doing? You learn to coat switch, right? Yeah. And because they're so on you.
Like you don't forget your culture. You don't forget where you come from.
And it was very much like that. And I appreciate that today.
So, and then I marry an immigrant who's very much about, I'm Italian, Italian forever. We're Italians.
We're da, da, da, da, da. And so when the boys were little, they spoke only Italian and Spanish.
But as soon as they start going to school and I start dialoguing with them, I go into what feels very, you know. And they pick up on it.
And we became very English-oriented in the way that we bond. And then that's when my husband's family, because our folks live here in the States and my parents also live in California, they were just like, you need to talk to them.
And I had to kind of have an intervention. I'm like, y'all need to chill.
You guys all chose to come here. We're all here.
They are American as well as they are this and this. So share, like we're going to, I'm going to allow you guys to share who we are inherently, but they, they don't force them because we're, we're eating in Italian and Spanish.
We are dancing it. We are communicating it.
That's already enough. It's going to be there.
But don't force it to them because then they're going to reject it. Like I tried to reject it when I was little.
And they kind of like, it was a nice intervention because even my husband, I had to sit him down. I'm like, you need to like, you know, just lay off the gas a little bit.
And now they understand it fluently. They'll speak it with their grandparents.
But with me, they speak mainly English. I do speak to them in Spanish a lot when we're in public when I don't want people to know what I'm saying.
And then my husband does the same. Yeah, yeah.
So wait, I want to get back to your career stuff because I'm obviously a massive fan. That's why you're here.
Shoot, I love it. But Lioness, season two, we'll talk about that in a second.
I hear that. Amelia Perez, we're going to watch tonight.
Center Stage, I loved. I know, it was 2000, so long ago, and I loved that movie.
And then after that, you did Crossroads with Britney Spears at such a young age when Britney was huge. Huge.
Were you like, oh my God, I'm in a movie with Britney Spears. I mean, what year was that? That was like 2002.
We started shooting right after, no, pardon me. We started shooting early 2001.
One, okay. It was before 9-11, I remember that.
Because you auditioned a lot when you came back from the Dominican Republic. And you were still so young when you were auditioning.
Do you have any crazy audition stories? Did you have to do one for the Britney Spears thing? Did you have to read with her? I did, yes. I auditioned.
I mean, I auditioned for Amelia Perez, too. So it's, I mean, but it's more like an interview.
Like, you just do a conversation. I auditioned a lot.
I remember I auditioned for a film that you were doing, Jason, years ago. I had nothing to do with it.
No, no, it's okay. What was the one that you did about the funeral? Oh, This Is Where I Leave You? Yes, yes.
But I bombed. I was so bad.
I was so bad at that audition. Isn't it terrible, right? You can practice as much as you want at home, and then you get in that room, and the nerves take over, and your inability to do what you planned on is just, oh, it's so frustrating.
I hated that process. I really did, because it really fed into my anxiety in a way that wasn't healthy.
Just, you know, competition and, you know, fighting to prove who you are is so hard. I do remember that if it wasn't for just warm people, amazing casting directors, like New York has amazing casting directors that were just human beings, you know.
They were nice and gentle. And I loved walking in and feeling like they were rooting for me.
Whenever I would put myself on tape. Because remember, it was like, you have to put yourself on tape when you live in New York.
That's what you got to do. And if it wasn't for the fact that people were nice, I would have never booked parts.
It's when people are super cold and they were so despondent and I would tank all of those auditions. It doesn't help.
And then you did, by the way, I mean, we could spend two hours, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Terminal with Tom Hanks, Star Trek, Marvel with Guardians of the Galaxy. But I have to say, my husband, Scotty, he's a massive, massive, massive Star Trek fan.

I'm more of a Star Wars,

but because of your films...

This is the only thing they fight about.

Yeah.

But because of your films

and JJ and everybody involved,

I was blown away by you and those films.

They're so well made.

Thank you.

And it's completely gripping

and suck you in in the best way.

There's going to be another one due soon, right?

Another Star Trek movie?

They're talking about it

Thank you. It's completely gripping and suck you in in the best way.
There's going to be another one due soon, right? Another Star Trek movie? They're talking about it, and it would be nice. It would be nice for us to come back and sort of do a proper send-off to the next generation.
Look, I don't, honestly, I wish I had, like, a formula. I feel like the only thing that I, that I kept doing was saying yes.
Yeah. Well, that's interesting.
You know, was just like if, if I was shooting Avatar and all of a sudden my agents at the time were calling me and it's like, well, JJ Abrams really wants to meet you for Uhura. He's, he's going to shoot this next Star Trek.
I was like, who what? You know, I wasn't a Star Trek fan. And I was like, well, okay.
You had me at JJ. I know.
And I'm like, but I'm working. And he's like, well, I think he's going to come to set.
I think, I'm like, oh, okay. Because I would go to the set of Avatar and every day it's like, oh, there's Robert Zemeckis.
There's Steven Spielberg. There's George Lucas.
That's crazy. They were always there.
And Jim was giving him the whole walkthrough. So it was very normal for us to see these amazing filmmakers.
And one, you know, Jim walks to set one day, goes, I have a surprise for you. And I think you're going to owe me for this one.
And I was like, what is he talking about? And JJ was there. And JJ was like, hi, Zoe.
And Jim, like, lets him, you know, touch the camera and do the whole tour tour. And then JJ's like, well, are you, I definitely want to meet you for Ahura, for Star Trek.
And then, you know, JJ left and Jim just comes over and goes, you're welcome. And I'm like, for what? I wasn't really tapping into it.
And then I get the call like, can you please play Ahura? I was like, abso-fucking-lutely. Are you kidding me? Let me think about it, yeah.
Yes, and then after that, it was just, and then after that, James Gunn comes over and, you know, years later goes, can you play Gamora? I'm like, yeah, of course. And I said yes, because I wanted to experience prosthetics.
Yeah, yeah. Makeup, like waking up at three o'clock in the morning and going through the whole nutty professor transformation.
Like, I was like, I want to do that. And then a month in, I was like, I hate this.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Two, three hours sitting in the chair and not doing anything. Eating through a straw.
Yeah. What about the series, the Star Trek series where those people have to be in that every single day for nine, ten months a year? I wouldn't be able to do it.
It never doesn't me laugh though the idea of a of a guy of an actor and a klingon all the klingon makeup walking through craft service that always will make me laugh just like getting fried chicken and like you know everything to put it in a blender right through a straw napkin like collar napkin always did not get makeup on their outfits wait so all of the travels and all the places you've worked in the world, I want to ask where you would choose to live if you had to pick a place, either fictional or non-fictional. Paris.
Oh, really? Yes. You love Paris.
I love Paris. Why? I love art.
I love the fact that people are always outside. I love to walk.
As a New Yorker, I just, I love to walk down the streets of ancient, ancient, you know, history. And I love eating and drinking wine.
So it's just, it's really romantic. And there's something really nice about Paris, but also like when you go to Italy, because my second favorite place in Italy, and then it's the Caribbean.
I'm from the Caribbean. I love the beach.
I love the water. But there's just something very free about Europe that in the summers, you see people in love, living in love in public, you know, and you'll see these younger couples like on the Vespa making out while you're like, you know, taking your kid for a walk.

But then the same couple, you come back and they're in the same Vespa and she's slapping the crap out of him.

Straso!

No, but like, was he?

And then all of a sudden he grabs her and shakes her and he kisses her.

And you're like, fuck, that's so romantic and dramatic. Yes, Jason and I are going to do that later tonight.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Which one do you want to be? You want to be shaken or the shaker? Both, both.
Well, listen, I could talk to you for 19 hours. We've taken up way too much of your time.
Me too, you guys. Thank you for this conversation.
I've enjoyed it. Thank you so much.
I can't wait to see the movie and Lioness. We didn't even talk about Lioness, but you and Nicole Kidman love the show.
Of course you're getting a second season. So I can't wait.
But thank you for being your gigantic fan. Thank you, guys.
Thank you for this conversation. Anytime, I'll come back.
Please do. Thank you so much.
Love you. All right.
Enjoy the rest of your day. Bye.
You too. Bye, sweetie.
Oh, Shawnee. Yeah, I love her.
I've wanted to talk to her forever. And she's like, you know, how many people can say, I know we already said it in the show.
The biggest. I mean, the three, there's no other actor that was in the top three movies of all time.
No. There's no other actor.
Isn't that wild? There's very few. Yeah, it's very wild.
A stunning accomplishment. You know what I was thinking about during it is that she's been in all those big, right? And then on the other end, I was in Brother Solomon.
And if you think about the gap between those. There's a lot of daylight in between.
There's a lot of daylight. It's all daylight.
Let's be honest. But I didn't even get to the terminal.
Remember she was in the terminal with Tom Hanks? Terminal, yes. Anyway, she was great.
Yeah. I really like her a lot, and I want to hang out with her.
Sure. Anyway.
And to your point, Sean, I mean, it's such an accomplishment, you know? To my point. Well, welcome in.
Maybe they mean willkommen. Velkommen velkommen by the way if they were german then i then i'm gonna take it obviously they're close to the candles okay you know what i mean um anyway she's wonderful she's amazing she's amazing she's one of a kind she is one of a kind But she's so rare, I would dare to say.
Uh-oh.

Do it.

Be brave.

You can feel it. She is one of a kind.
She's so rare, I would dare to say.

Uh-oh.

Do it.

Be brave.

You can feel it.

This is where it's embarrassing, where you can feel it.

Is that she's so, you know, people who have been in so many huge films like that,

they're not every day.

In fact, they're pretty hard to combine.

Come by.

Come by.

Come by. Come by.
come by. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, dot edu.
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