"Don Cheadle"

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Speaker 1 Hi, everybody. How is your day today?

Speaker 2 Are you asking us or the audience and you're expecting an answer from me?

Speaker 3 You know, the audience is not Mike. You got it.

Speaker 2 Sorry.

Speaker 1 Well, no, I was asked, oh, they're not?

Speaker 2 Since when do you call me and JB everybody? Yeah. No, I call you guys the audience.

Speaker 3 Because you think that's the only people listening to you, it's just us two? You've got higher responsibilities in that.

Speaker 2 Let's come with the good stuff. Judging by this opening, we're after you're just going to be a great Smartlist.
Welcome to it. Smart

Speaker 2 Less.

Speaker 2 Smart

Speaker 2 Less.

Speaker 2 Smart

Speaker 2 Less.

Speaker 3 Sean, what's on your cap there? Is that a college?

Speaker 1 It's ISU, Illinois State University, where I have an honorary doctorate and a scholarship fund set up for people who want to go into music or the arts and acting.

Speaker 2 Are they still accredited? I mean, after you got a diploma, I heard that after they give you a diploma, that they were stripped of their power.

Speaker 3 That's like a real on, is that an online university?

Speaker 1 I still wear my sash to bed.

Speaker 2 Once they did an assessment of your intellect, they're like, we gave this guy a fucking diploma.

Speaker 3 Did you really go to ISU?

Speaker 1 I went to Illinois State State University. Yeah, it's one of the greatest colleges ever.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Well, hang on, let's quickly Google that. Let's see how much I don't think you're going to like

Speaker 2 theater. By the way, you know who went there?

Speaker 1 Me, Jane Lynch, Craig Robinson, and I were music majors together.

Speaker 2 I know. I know.
We've had them on the podcast. I know.
We talked about that. We talked about it for like half an hour.

Speaker 3 Hey, Arnett, where'd you go to school?

Speaker 2 I didn't. I dropped out, man.
No, but you did, dude. You went to boarding school.
You know where I went? I went to fucking Hard Knocks, dude.

Speaker 2 oh bro the streets hard knock life with annie toronto yeah the streets of toronto did you go do you went you went to excuse me you excuse me you went to additional additional voluntary school i did for half a half a year half a year i know i love you going just made me voluntary

Speaker 3 volunte no access you to invert that voluntary additional school um

Speaker 3 and uh yeah i just didn't understand the concept of that you know like well yeah.

Speaker 3 I now have an option to not go. So taking that option.

Speaker 2 Sure. Found a good joke.
Yeah, sure. I'd love to.

Speaker 2 Jump in. I didn't realize that you were grabbing the reins here.
We were just merrily going down a path. But

Speaker 2 let's talk more about your score.

Speaker 2 Let's talk more about your score. I didn't come.
No, let's not. Here we go, ready.

Speaker 1 The best gift I ever received was a broken drum.

Speaker 2 You can't beat it.

Speaker 2 Okay. That's all right.
That's okay.

Speaker 3 He doesn't claim these to be great jokes.

Speaker 2 I got a couple laughs in the background there.

Speaker 3 You should say, do you want to hear a dad joke? If you say

Speaker 3 that you're ready for something good, dad joke means it's not.

Speaker 2 I don't like the term dad joke. I think that that's

Speaker 2 lazy. Call it a job.

Speaker 3 How about bad joke? Just say bad joke so people aren't expecting to like it.

Speaker 2 It's like a pun. That's okay to say.

Speaker 1 I got one more. You got one more?

Speaker 3 Are there any mom jokes?

Speaker 1 Here's a mom joke. What's faster, hot or cold?

Speaker 2 Hot. You can always catch a cold.

Speaker 3 That's good.

Speaker 2 That's good.

Speaker 2 That's pretty good.

Speaker 3 I guarantee you, at least one of our listeners will be using that today after they get out of their car

Speaker 3 or off their subway or done with their jog.

Speaker 3 You know, it's fun.

Speaker 2 You're welcome.

Speaker 2 I love just no, hang on, Sean. I love Jason trying to imagine what regular people do.

Speaker 2 It's so fun.

Speaker 2 They get on the subway and then they jog.

Speaker 2 And then they kiss their kids goodbye, walk out door, go to job,

Speaker 2 say hi, boss, office.

Speaker 2 Want to hear a joke? Oh, dear. Want to hear a joke at water cooler with me.
I love succession to NYC. What are you watching? I'm also watching Succession.
Are you watching it?

Speaker 2 I am also worried about saying that I don't like it. Do you're worried that you're saying it? I do like it.
I'm just watching the joke.

Speaker 2 Real

Speaker 3 good opening patter, everybody.

Speaker 2 Did everybody sleep well? I slept really well.

Speaker 3 Patter's over. Let's get to our high-level guest.

Speaker 2 I think good, though. Did you? For the first time.
Actually, that is worth it.

Speaker 3 Do you want to us about your sleep?

Speaker 2 It's not going to wait for your sleep requirements. Well, it's very rare that he has good sleep.
Before we get into it, it is true, Sean, and I'm happy for you.

Speaker 2 And there's nobody, we talk about it all the time. Right.
Sean, yesterday morning, JB, Sean, I said to him, hey, you got a second. Let me know when you got a second.
Like seven. I'm up at six.

Speaker 2 I said, let me know when you got a second.

Speaker 1 It was like seven.

Speaker 2 It was at seven. He calls me, and I go, and I thought that he was back.
You know, his usual thing. He wakes up in the middle of the night and then he goes back to to bed at 6.30 until 10.

Speaker 2 It's whatever.

Speaker 2 And he was up and he'd been up since 3.30. 3.30.
He's been on a bad run of not being able to sleep.

Speaker 1 So I slept all through the night. I got up to pee and I went right back to sleep.

Speaker 3 And why do you think that is? Did you load up on a bunch of sugar before you went to bed?

Speaker 1 I did a little bit, but because of yesterday, I think that what Will's talking about, I think I ran myself around in circles like a little child, being up at 3.30, and then I just crashed, and it made me sleep all night long.

Speaker 1 It was awesome.

Speaker 2 You nap.

Speaker 3 What a fucking story.

Speaker 2 I'll nap like 10 minutes.

Speaker 2 I'll nap like 10 minutes. Anyway, so good that we stopped for that.

Speaker 3 You were right, Will.

Speaker 2 Silly me.

Speaker 3 So today's guest is

Speaker 3 so immensely accomplished.

Speaker 2 We're going to see Bateman's face. What a fucking story.

Speaker 3 God, who else slept through the whole night? Make sure you call call in.

Speaker 2 Our lines are open and

Speaker 3 love to hear about it.

Speaker 3 So our next guest is so accomplished and so

Speaker 3 universally loved. Okay.

Speaker 3 He's done everything.

Speaker 3 He's done television, film, theater.

Speaker 3 He's even got a Grammy, I believe.

Speaker 3 It's been comedy. It's been drama.
It's been popcorn movies. It's been academy movies.

Speaker 3 I just don't know what else to say about this fellow, except he's a new friend.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay. Okay.

Speaker 3 We met online,

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 he is also a Capricorn.

Speaker 3 And no, he is a new friend that I'm very excited about.

Speaker 3 He swings a mean golf club.

Speaker 2 The way that started was he swings.

Speaker 1 I know. I know.
I was like, uh-oh, what?

Speaker 3 He'll take you where you want to go on the weekends, okay?

Speaker 2 Will, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 But listen, I love him. He's here.
Very kind of him to say yes because this is a big shot. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr.
Don Cheadle. Hello.

Speaker 2 I love Don Cheadle. People.

Speaker 2 What's happening? Good morning. Don.
Don Cheadle's done.

Speaker 3 You know what I was trying to remember, Don?

Speaker 3 What is that great nickname that you were given because you're so smooth? I couldn't remember you told me this on the golf course

Speaker 2 i think kelly slater said that was very donchalant yeah

Speaker 2 donchalant

Speaker 2 is that a new is that a new nickname that's really clever it's i'm i'm trying to put it out there you know i was gonna try to trademark it but i i was unsuccessful donchalant is out there now just just fyi it's it's fully out there and if you happen to run into don uh jeetlo on the streets just immediately Don Chalant.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Let him know.
Mr. Chalant.
You can single gun it or double gun it. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Don.

Speaker 2 Don Cheeto. Hi.
Good morning. What's up, gang?

Speaker 1 I love Don Cheeto.

Speaker 2 You know, the team was like, you've got to do these guys' podcasts. It's,

Speaker 2 you're going to love them. I love all of you individually and collectively.

Speaker 2 Not as much when I said through the banter.

Speaker 3 The early banter.

Speaker 3 It's like, remember the, remember the joy that Regis and Kathy Lee used to give you with that, with that first 10 minutes of coffee patter?

Speaker 3 That's what we're reaching for, Don. You know,

Speaker 2 it was our strong

Speaker 2 six minutes.

Speaker 2 Don, where are we finding you right now?

Speaker 2 And the reason I ask is because you look like you're either coming from or going to the golf course because you're wearing a zip up.

Speaker 2 But I want to say, which is surprising because you are such, you're so busy and rightfully so, because you're always, you fit in that category for me too, of people who are always good no matter what the project is.

Speaker 2 You're so consistently awesome all the time.

Speaker 2 Wait till you see this one. Who's going to take that down? I don't know.

Speaker 1 You know what? You know what, Scotty and I?

Speaker 2 I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Scotty and I just watched just last week, not even knowing, obviously, you were going to be on because you're Jason's guest, we watched Mission to Mars. I was in that.

Speaker 1 And I was like, there's Don.

Speaker 2 Again, and you're brilliant in it. Always.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because you know I'll watch anything sci-fi.

Speaker 3 I am picking up with on surprise in Sean's voice, though, right?

Speaker 2 When he says, and you're brilliant. It was like

Speaker 2 you were pretty good. No.
No, I meant to Will's point, I didn't know you were an actor.

Speaker 2 And that you could grow facial hair.

Speaker 2 I thought it was only Jason who could grow.

Speaker 3 This is not really facial hair.

Speaker 2 This is disgusting.

Speaker 2 No, it was great.

Speaker 2 So, Don. I'm in Atlanta, Will, to answer your question.
I'm in Atlanta. You're in Atlanta.
And

Speaker 3 what's happening there in Atlanta?

Speaker 2 working on something no doubt i am i am working on something uh it's a project called fight night um

Speaker 2 and i am in this wonderful project with who you guys had on the show kevin hart um

Speaker 2 sam jackson yeah saraji henson terrence howard wow yeah it's um It should be, it should be, I'm looking forward to it. I just, I've shot one day, so I'm, you know, I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 2 So you can still be fired.

Speaker 3 They can still easily reshoot

Speaker 2 working early enough.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so watch it.

Speaker 2 I've been replaced before. It wouldn't be the first time.
No. Have you? No.

Speaker 3 I've been replaced before.

Speaker 2 Oh, I have. I've been.
I didn't mean to bring something pink.

Speaker 2 I love the dude. I love that dude.
It's like, no, I haven't. No, sorry.
I was just kidding.

Speaker 2 Of course,

Speaker 2 mine was a cruel thing. Why was

Speaker 3 mine was the cruelest, though, because I worked my nards off on this pilot. We shot the pilot.
It went well, so I thought.

Speaker 3 And then, like a couple of days before the big announcements happen about whether pilots are going to get picked up to go to series, I get a call from my agent saying,

Speaker 3 you are going to,

Speaker 3 good news, bad news. Good news is your show got picked up.
And I said, unbelievable. He goes, here, let me finish.
The bad news is that they're going to go a different direction with your character.

Speaker 2 And I said, okay.

Speaker 3 Two days later, found out they're actually not picking up the show. So

Speaker 3 I mean, it's just like the worst 48 hours.

Speaker 2 So good, bad, good. Well, but I could have been.

Speaker 2 I agree with Donald.

Speaker 3 I could have been spared all of it by just them saying, well, we're not picking up the show. Basically, we're all fired.

Speaker 2 Are you still with this agent? Yeah, that's a good idea.

Speaker 3 Exactly. No, no, no.
That's the three or four.

Speaker 2 But it's good to know. I like it is personal a little bit because they were like, hey, we know the show's not getting picked up, but let's let Bateman know that even if it did, he wasn't coming away.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 In the event that this is going forward, not you.

Speaker 2 I got fired too. I got fired off a pilot that went to series the year before we started Arrested Development.

Speaker 3 Oh, God bless.

Speaker 2 And had I not been, I would have been stuck on that show.

Speaker 2 Don, wait a second. So you're in Atlanta.
You're doing this thing with

Speaker 2 Sam Jackson.

Speaker 2 Are you potentially playing golf with Sam today?

Speaker 2 You know, Sam has been on IR for a minute. I hope he comes off because I would love to.
You know, we used to play a lot, but

Speaker 2 he's he's nursing an injury or two. So

Speaker 2 fingers crossed. How's his game? Sam was like a four.

Speaker 2 What? Wow. Yeah.
Damn it. Wow.
Because all these people, the game is just so easy to so many people.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, Sam famously, you know, whenever he would get a gig, a part of his contract was they had to get him a membership to whatever local course there was because he's such a freak about it.

Speaker 2 So he know shit. Yeah, he played everywhere.
I was like, you can do that? Sam also was, you know, mister, if you force me, you're bringing me $900 in cash in an envelope the next day like a drug deal.

Speaker 2 I was like, this dude's my hero. Yeah.
That's

Speaker 2 by the way, Jason. Jason, right now, you see, you look down,

Speaker 2 he's just gone his phone on Speed Dell to CAA right now. He's like,

Speaker 2 what the fuck?

Speaker 2 You thought 12 country clubs short, damn it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 All right. Now, how do you like, how do you like Atlanta? You know, I've worked there a lot and

Speaker 2 I always thought that it was not going to be a place for me and every time I work there I just love it more and more and more are you enjoying yourself there you've you've worked there a bunch yes I've worked here a bunch because a lot of the Marvel stuff was here right yeah oh right and I've kind of been around it a little bit more but this is probably the longest stretch that I'm gonna be here so I'm looking forward to like getting up to the mountains and into the lakes and just checking it all out.

Speaker 1 So I did a movie there a long time ago in Atlanta during the summer. Did you guys shoot all those Marvel movies in like the summertime? Because you can't breathe.
It's so hot.

Speaker 2 Hot Atlanta. Hot Atlanta.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And how do you, you're in those costumes and running around in that heat? Is that what it is?

Speaker 2 And you're in space?

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, I think that was the, oh, there's a callback.
I was like, good one. No, but I mean, isn't that brutal? Yeah, it's brutal.

Speaker 2 I mean, I was, you know, I'm from Kansas City, Missouri, where, you know, 98 degrees and 98% humidity.

Speaker 2 So I was, I was, I was born for this yeah you know yeah but yeah it's not it's not fun but right now it's very cold actually yeah it gets cold I like it I like it too I like JB I spent the last few years about last year I spent six months I think almost in Atlanta and I really liked it I really liked the people once you find a kind of a good zone where you can find your stuff and whatever I liked it a lot

Speaker 2 but I was down in like uh i was down like um right near sort of little five points like all in there like that's where i was was staying. It was awesome.
A lot of great like restaurants and okay.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Jason, have you had enough? Yeah, that's

Speaker 2 like you opened it. You opened it.
This is like this is like the fucking court case.

Speaker 3 Good sleep last night, Don.

Speaker 2 You know, what's hilarious when Sean was talking about that is I was very jealous because I did not sleep well last night. That's what I'm saying.
I had the worst episode we've ever recorded. Right.

Speaker 2 We're right over 17 minutes from what I did.

Speaker 2 No, no, it's all my fault. It's all my fault.

Speaker 3 I'm talking about fucking Atlanta. We're talking about the weather.
We're talking about sleep. It's like, let's get to something hard-hitting.

Speaker 2 Now, somebody told me the other day that Kansas City, here we go,

Speaker 3 Kansas City is actually split right down the middle, the border between Kansas and Missouri.

Speaker 2 You still don't have it. JKB, you still don't have it.

Speaker 2 You still haven't got it. That's a whiff.
No, no.

Speaker 2 Help me.

Speaker 2 People. No, no, no.

Speaker 2 There's one in Kansas and there's a Kansas City in Missouri. Two different.
I mean, they're close.

Speaker 3 Wait, there's two different places called Kansas City.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. No, honestly.
I know. John's about to leave.
John, this is every day, by the way.

Speaker 3 54 years old, and

Speaker 3 I'm just now getting clarity on this.

Speaker 3 Let's do it publicly.

Speaker 2 There are two

Speaker 3 places called Kansas City. One's in Missouri, one's in Kansas.

Speaker 2 Crack.

Speaker 3 And which one's got the Kansas border? Which one's got the Royals?

Speaker 2 Missouri. Missouri.

Speaker 3 Missouri's got what?

Speaker 2 Let me just say this.

Speaker 2 Don, take a look at JB's face. Now, JB, walk Don through the gummy routine.
This is going to explain a lot. Walk him through the timing and the guys, I'm still up.

Speaker 3 I'm still up from last night's chew.

Speaker 2 No, now

Speaker 2 we talk about this a little bit on the golf course. I don't remember.
I don't know if you remember, but I'm sure you don't remember because you're gummy programmed.

Speaker 3 No, never, never when I'm golfing. Golfing's serious business.

Speaker 2 You said that.

Speaker 3 Now, wait a second.

Speaker 3 But what sports team does Kansas City, Kansas

Speaker 2 have? The Royals? He's still. He's here.
Is it the Royals?

Speaker 3 It's crazy. No, no, no.

Speaker 2 Honestly, is it the Royals? Are in Kansas News?

Speaker 2 Do we want to just go to like the interweek?

Speaker 3 Kansas City, Kansas has nothing. Is that correct? Yeah.
No sports teams. No professional sports teams.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man. I'll let it rest now.
Just look it up. Okay.
I hope I'm going to be in the middle of the morning.

Speaker 2 Honestly, honestly, they're all looking it up, America. I've never looked into it this deeply.
You might be absolutely right. I just have all of you.
He's not right. He's not right.
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 I think Kansas City

Speaker 2 has the Royals?

Speaker 1 Are there any sports teams in Kansas City, Kansas?

Speaker 3 I'm so sorry, America.

Speaker 1 And specifically, Kansas City has had teams in all five of the major professional sports leagues. Three major leagues remain.

Speaker 3 Is that Missouri or is that Kansas?

Speaker 1 That's Kansas City, Kansas.

Speaker 2 Okay. Wait, who's in Kansas City, Kansas?

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 Boy, this is again, this is Kansas City.

Speaker 3 We're going to pick this up. Hey, Don, how'd you get started in the business? Yeah, no.

Speaker 2 I want to know. JB, fuck you.
You have it.

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 little porn called Don Shalantis

Speaker 1 No, I do want to know because to me I've seen you in so many things and like Will said always brilliant like To me you were born on screen like I don't know anything about you other than the I was born on screen.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 1 other than we we run into each other a few times and had lovely conversations But tell me how did you get like you were in theater in high school?

Speaker 2 Well sidebar we almost we you we played played around with doing a movie together at one point.

Speaker 2 I don't know if you ever got that off.

Speaker 1 I did. It didn't do well.

Speaker 2 Did you get it off? Yeah, it didn't do well.

Speaker 1 But thank you for your consideration.

Speaker 2 Next up, next up,

Speaker 2 way to dodge a bullet, Don.

Speaker 2 I was trying to give a compliment and went right in the trash bin.

Speaker 1 No, but did you, did you, were you interested in high school? Like, what a how early were you? Did you get the bug?

Speaker 2 So I kind of got the early acting bug. I think I was in fifth, sixth grade.

Speaker 2 I was Templeton the Rat in a production of Charlotte's Webb that was written about extensively in the

Speaker 2 Denver, Colorado periodicals. You can look it up.
I'm sure it's still there. No, I'm not asking.

Speaker 2 Templeton. And I was singled out.

Speaker 2 I'm just saying I was singled out. So

Speaker 2 the standout was the rat. Yeah.
And when Cheadle hits the stage, hold on to your, yeah.

Speaker 2 So I did that, but I was also doing music kind of at the same time. That's when I got involved in playing my saxophone and instrumental jazz.

Speaker 2 And so I kind of was on these two tracks of really studying music. And

Speaker 2 when I went to high school, I had a great acting coach, a great acting teacher, a great drama class. And I was in a really, a really good jazz band.
So I was kind of on these two. tracks.

Speaker 2 And when I graduated from high school, I had applied for both things to go into music, to go into vocal jazz, to go into instrumental jazz, and also to study acting and theater acting.

Speaker 2 And I got some scholarship money from a bunch of different places. And I kind of made for acting or music or both? Both.

Speaker 2 I had both.

Speaker 2 But I kind of made not only a weather choice, but I think I made a choice based on what I believed I was going to be able to actually do.

Speaker 2 Because I grew up with musicians now who are like professional musicians and who are hugely successful and incredible.

Speaker 2 And I knew what it was going to take to actually be able to do that, go down that road and, you know, shedding and learning theory and doing all those things that I was like, I'm not, I know I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think I'm probably going to spend my time more being

Speaker 2 out of the house, being with other people and pursuing acting. And I loved it as, I loved it equally.
So I kind of went up that road.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's definitely science and math to music that you have to want to.

Speaker 2 And I think it kind of, I was intimidated by it a little bit, to be honest.

Speaker 2 I think I was a little, you know, I'd gotten by, I had a really good ear and I'd gotten by on really being able to hear music rather than understanding how it broke down.

Speaker 2 And I was kind of wide-eyed when it would, when I'd get into the weeds on that. So I get that.
It's like I kind of ran to something that I felt more comfortable with.

Speaker 2 But it's funny that the music has kind of come back around and that's become a bigger part of my career now too.

Speaker 2 But Don, did you ever, and Sean, forgive me for taking your question, but did you ever think about, you know, kind of like when that guy dropped the chocolate in the tub of peanut butter and they came up with the Reese's, did you ever think of taking the music and dumping that into the theater and going into musical theater, Sean?

Speaker 2 Five, six, seven. Seven, eight.

Speaker 2 Did you ever get into that stuff?

Speaker 3 Oh, he sure did. Let's talk about the Tony's.
Go ahead. Oh.

Speaker 2 Well, I've never gotten one. No, but I produced something that was the Tony's award-winning

Speaker 2 show called Strange Loop.

Speaker 2 Yes. Oh, my God.
That's right. right.

Speaker 2 With Barbara, Barbara Whitman. Yes.
Yes. Right? Yes.

Speaker 1 And she produced the play I just did.

Speaker 2 That's right. Yeah.
Congrats on that. Thank you.
Thank you. Crazy, great show.

Speaker 2 But did you yourself, were you yourself at it, like in high school or afterwards in college? Absolutely. Yes.
100%.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 when I graduated high school, the choice I made was to go to, I came to California and I studied at California Institute of the Arts.

Speaker 2 And we, you know, did everything there. Musicals and dramas and classical pieces.
We did everything. It was really a great

Speaker 2 experience for me in a place to be able to try everything and make a lot of mistakes and not get fired for it as a result.

Speaker 1 Get ready because I love horrible theater stories, things that go wrong. So just get one ready.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 They're the best. You can't wait.

Speaker 3 Before we get to one of those, can you guys extend your tolerance for my lack of intelligence against the children?

Speaker 2 Is Kansas City, are you going to go to the Chiefs and the Royals again? It's worn pretty thin at this point. It's

Speaker 2 very, very straightforward.

Speaker 2 So if I'm on the border,

Speaker 3 and we will be right back.

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Speaker 2 And now back to the show.

Speaker 3 So jazz, talk to me about jazz. Now, I'm a big music fan and specifically classical music.
And so I feel like if I love classical music, I could really love jazz because it's a little easier to love.

Speaker 3 It's a little bit more toe-tappy. But I got to understand it a little bit more.
And I'm hearing that jazz, its real appeal is

Speaker 3 knowing that for the most part, it's improvised. Is that correct? Or

Speaker 2 is it more traditionally written out and there's sheet music that is a component of it and i think the umbrella of jazz under that are many, many subdivisions and categories.

Speaker 2 It's a huge sort of a blanket term, especially by now.

Speaker 2 You know, if you think of somebody like Robert Glasper, who I won a Grammy with for producing the

Speaker 2 album Miles Ahead. Anyway,

Speaker 2 your cough sounds terrible. Your cough sounds terrible.
You're my second Grammy. Sorry.

Speaker 2 You got a really terrible cough. Yeah, thanks, Bill.
Let me get worse. Water goes.
Wait, are you close to an ego? Two Grammys.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, clear. Your throat's clear now.
Let me get that looked. Okay, that's good now.

Speaker 3 Do you have a nomination Egot? I think you do.

Speaker 2 Yes?

Speaker 2 I have a nomination EGOT, yes, but not.

Speaker 2 Pretty fucking good.

Speaker 2 But like Rob Glasper, you look at his music and he, you know, he

Speaker 2 spans the globe of what his musical knowledge is and his experience. And he does popular stuff, black radio, which is sort of, I think you would think of more as like R ⁇ B influenced.

Speaker 2 And then he does straight ahead, you know, jazz and standards and he does everything in between.

Speaker 2 So I think if you were to ask a musician like that what jazz is, or even if you were going to go back and ask, you know, Miles Davis what jazz was, he hated that word.

Speaker 2 He was like, that's a word to box somebody in. You know, it's about good music.
It's about social music. So

Speaker 2 I think there are different, like when I get in the car and, you know, the driver taking you somewhere is like, let's put on some jazz. And he puts on smooth jazz.
It's like, I want to shoot him.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I hate it.

Speaker 2 Don, you have to, Don, you have to forgive Jason because they don't do explanations of jazz on the Hollywood Reporter homepage. So he wouldn't read it.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 let me just say this. We did this bit in our show, Flaked.

Speaker 2 Nothing. Okay.
So where we had, where we did, this guy's getting ready to have this girl over for a date, and then his buddy suggests he

Speaker 2 put jazz on. And they look at each other and they're like, and they're unsure.
And he goes, I'm not sure where I fall on jazz.

Speaker 2 And our joke was always that, like, I can't figure out if it's cool to say I do like it or if it's cool to say I don't like it. And I'm still trying to decide where I land on that.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Me too. Like, I just feel like I, you know, everyone says you should go to New Orleans for the jazz festival, or everyone you should listen to.

Speaker 2 And that's a very specific kind of jazz. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 1 I'm more like, I'm open to it if there's a melody that I can hum back, like a song.

Speaker 1 I'm not open to the

Speaker 1 jazz that's just people just playing.

Speaker 2 Sort of fusion-y, improvised fusion is that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I can't latch on to anything.

Speaker 2 You can't whack off to anything?

Speaker 2 What? What is he saying?

Speaker 2 I love it all because if you're really, you know, if you're a jazz, you can whack to it.

Speaker 2 Sorry. Jazz.
No, latch onto it. Grab your thing and have some fun.
Yeah, new chazzy. New channel.
Well, you heard it, JB. You heard it too, right? I think I might have.

Speaker 3 So, So, Don,

Speaker 3 so you're you're learning the saxophone at an early age. That gets you into music.
That's uh, eventually you find an appreciation for Miles Davis, and then that project comes about.

Speaker 3 That was a, what was that, a documentary that you produced?

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, a movie. A film movie.

Speaker 3 And you played him? Yes. Yes.
Yes. We're not good journalists.
Brilliantly.

Speaker 1 And I remember you telling me when I ran into you, you were working on that.

Speaker 2 Some nominations or even some wins for that i believe well that was the grammy that we got for the soundtrack which is really cool the album we put together with rob glasper and i put that together so that was really cool um but yeah i think it's a big category talk about jokes on shows we had one on black monday where i'm talking to uh

Speaker 2 thank you very much i'm talking to regina dawn her name the character's dawn about it and she goes yeah i can never get into jazz it just always sounded like a bunch of instruments thrown down a flight of stairs

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 2 um Now,

Speaker 3 in my incredible research,

Speaker 3 did you really work on The Fresh Prince?

Speaker 2 Funny enough, I did. I was on one of the first episodes of Fresh Prince, and I have a funny pilot firing story too

Speaker 2 about a pilot that didn't go. So I did the, I think it was the second or third episode of The Fresh Prince, where Will was...
still super green. He's like mouthing everyone's words, you know,

Speaker 2 along with his, so he'd say his line and then he's staring at you and you'd say your line.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's mouthing it. That's such a thing.

Speaker 2 We've all worked with people who do that. It's such an actor thing, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Are you mouthing my dialogue to me as I'm saying? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So he was so studious, you know, he knew everybody's lines and then he would like mouth everybody's lines.

Speaker 2 But so we did that one and by the third or fourth show, the creators at Susan and Andy Borowitz,

Speaker 2 who were the head writers on the show, they said, we want to do a show around you. Uh-oh.

Speaker 2 Not necessarily based on the character that you're playing on this, but we just want to do a show around you. And I was like, okay, that's cool.
So they wrote this show.

Speaker 2 How old were you?

Speaker 2 When I did Fresh Prince. Yeah.
Early 20s? Is that really germane to the story? I mean, he's just going to come in and get that. You offered your own show.
It's like, I was six, okay?

Speaker 2 I was fucking six. No, he's just jealous.
He's just jealous because he's like, when are you getting offers for your own show? And he's like, I worked my whole life.

Speaker 2 Michael Landon did create a show for me. Sorry, JP.
I know that.

Speaker 2 Michael Landon.

Speaker 2 So, no,

Speaker 2 I did. So the third day, they come down.
They're like, we want to do the show. I said, okay, great.
So they wrote this pilot. We shot the pilot.
It's called In the House.

Speaker 2 I wrote the theme song to the thing.

Speaker 2 It was just, everything was great.

Speaker 2 Heavy saxophone.

Speaker 2 Super, super heavy saxophone.

Speaker 2 It was on the schedule. And

Speaker 2 I'm pretty, like, I don't believe it until until i see it and i just kind of wasn't believing that it was real and also it just was a huge thing it was the biggest thing that had happened in my career at that point i was like i don't something's telling me this isn't real right but it was on the schedule it was going um so like the day before i got this faithful call i gave my brother my car i was like hey it's on take the car it's i'm about to have this huge windfall yeah It's, I'm ready.

Speaker 2 And the next day I got a call and they said it's off the schedule.

Speaker 2 It was how old I I was was Brandon Tardikoff, who was still running NBC at that time. Okay, we're a late age.
Everybody, I don't know if people are listening, they don't know, yeah,

Speaker 2 but he,

Speaker 2 when he stepped down, and Warren Littlefield came in, he killed all the shows that were in Brandon, and that was one of them. That was one of the casuals.

Speaker 2 You know, Sean, Sean, you told me a story, and correct me if I'm wrong, about uh, where you shot the pilot

Speaker 2 because they had mignonette sauce instead of cocktail sauce for your oysters. Is that true? And you guys were about to leave Van Huys, and you shot, you were so mad

Speaker 2 because you're like, I hate mignonette sauce. I like cocktail sauce.
You shot the pilot out the bus.

Speaker 2 But I spared the co-pilot. As a lesson, so he could live to tell the story to other pilots about to get the sauces right.

Speaker 3 Now, all right. So now, Don, could you imagine if that show had taken off, became a big success, you would have been a big sitcom star.

Speaker 2 I wonder where your career would have gone.

Speaker 2 I was thinking the same thing.

Speaker 3 Like, but like, even, so going back before that, was there another significant fork in the road either where you grew up like a fateful move to a certain city or what your parents were doing or saying or siblings where you could have easily seen oh if i just simply gone right instead of left i would be a veterinarian today or i would be an architect today or was there was there a fork that that's such a good question thank you I mean, you know, it's crazy that my fallback was music.

Speaker 2 Like, if this acting thing doesn't work out,

Speaker 2 I'll be a jazz musician. That'll get me there.
It's like,

Speaker 2 so, I mean, that's where I was trending. That's what I wanted to do.
And quite honestly,

Speaker 2 there's still no greater pleasure that I have, you know, in any sort of performance capacity than being with musicians and creating music. Really, really? That's to me the highest.

Speaker 2 It really is. I think because of, as you were talking about, improvisation, that

Speaker 2 you're creating things spontaneously.

Speaker 2 I don't know what's doing biochemically to you, but I'm sure if you have electrodes on and you know, they were testing you, you're getting dopamine hits that are just through the roof because it's just so alive.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And it necessitates this connection with these fellow, pardon the term, artists that you're kind of communicating without speaking.
And there's a handoff and a yes-and thing.

Speaker 3 You get that also in acting.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you do.

Speaker 2 And there's also that thing you do when you perform live, when you also get that, when you get that feedback from an audience when you're on stage, and you get that thing, and it starts to inform you a little bit.

Speaker 2 They become part of your creative process because you get juice from that, I think. Yeah, absolutely.
You do.

Speaker 2 And it transcends language, and it transcends, you know,

Speaker 2 English, Spanish. We can all speak this language.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 there's a big unifying thing that it does. It's just like...

Speaker 1 beyond. I had the same thing, Don.

Speaker 1 You know, I was always had music to fall back on should the, you know, the acting thing, and I still have the music to fall back on if the acting thing doesn't work out.

Speaker 1 But I always thought my fallback was going to be, oh, I'll just be a pop star.

Speaker 2 Well, you can spin your ass off. So

Speaker 2 if you had a shot.

Speaker 1 Well, no, but

Speaker 2 just play a little bit of it right now. We do this every once in a while, Don.
Sean. Yeah, no.

Speaker 3 Now, Don, do you.

Speaker 2 Bennett's going to find it for us. He's going to play before Don leaves.
Bennett or Robert are going to find it.

Speaker 3 Chuck that needle, Bennett. Hey, Don, do you have a place where you go, like Woody Allen famously took his clarinet out

Speaker 3 once a week or whatever, and that's not a

Speaker 2 euphemism. Oh, nice.
Not a euphemism. Right into it, Will.

Speaker 2 You're my new favorite guy on the podcast.

Speaker 3 Do you have a place where you go whip out your sax and go play it?

Speaker 2 Hang on, man.

Speaker 2 I just said Will got that one. You don't have to jump on it.
I'm trying to piggyback on that. Hey, you hear what I did? Jump on top of the little thing? I'm tripping up on it.
Your turn, Sean.

Speaker 2 Get in there.

Speaker 3 i'll take it off like but like do you have

Speaker 2 i'll take it off there it is um do you have a band that you play with or or or a jazz club that you go to every once in a while no and i've been like bounce bouncing around on different so i played the sax and then i didn't do that i you know when i went to cali arts it was it was kind of like a conservatory the amount of time that you had to spend on all that there was no time really to do anything but theater and voice and movement and dance and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 So I just kind of dropped it. And then I was in New York doing a play and I walked by a pawn shop and I saw this beautiful tenor sax.
I was like, I'm going to pick it back up again.

Speaker 2 I'm going to see if I have any facility because you know, you lose your embouchure, you lose that musculature to be able to play it. It's hard to get it back.
So I started playing it again.

Speaker 2 It sounded terrible. I was like, no, just hang out.
Just like stay with it. So I started doing that.
And then I

Speaker 2 took a gig actually um

Speaker 2 the rat pack movie and playing sammy davis jr who

Speaker 2 played drums and played trumpet and you know gun twirled and could play piano yeah and so i kind of went back to school again having private you know having lessons from all of these teachers to learn how to do all these different things

Speaker 2 and that's when i started trying to pick up the trumpet which became something that was gonna i didn't know i was gonna need later when i did the miles davis thing so i've been playing bass more than anything lately and piano more than anything lately.

Speaker 2 I haven't gone back to the sax.

Speaker 2 I did bring, I bought a really beautiful brand new sax and let this dude play and he just recorded an album with it. And it's like, so

Speaker 2 it's always in the periphery somewhere, but I haven't, you know, I think the most amazing experience I had in musical experience in the last couple of years was Rob Glasper was at his, he was recording something.

Speaker 2 He said, hey, come by, come, come listen. And And I said, yeah, keep a track open because I'm going to bring the bass and I'm just going to like, you know, kill you guys with some shit.

Speaker 2 So just keep the track open. I was completely joking.
And so I came over and I listened to him for a while and he goes, okay, here, here's the bass. Let's go.
I said, no, no, no, I was, I was joking.

Speaker 2 I don't, I don't want to play. He's like, oh, no, you're going to play.
And it became sort of like, you know, trial by fire. And I don't play like that.

Speaker 2 But when you play with great musicians, you know that they lift you up. Yeah.
And they

Speaker 2 I wish I could find that. Yeah.
I just lift me up. It's fucking unbelievable.
I'm just dragging these stuff through these guys. John,

Speaker 1 you seem to be like, like, so great at surrounding your life with the things that mean, you know, have great value to you. Music, acting, family.

Speaker 2 You always seem to be in a great mood too. Like,

Speaker 2 is golf? Yeah.

Speaker 2 How do you do that?

Speaker 1 How do you, for people who don't know how to do that, where they're like, I'm still, I'm in this rut. Like, to us, we've all found found the thing that we love to do or things we love to do.

Speaker 1 How did you learn how to gravitate towards the good versus the bad? You know, the things that are good for you, the things that fill your soul rather than

Speaker 3 this, this is a question. This is an interviewer, Will.
This is somebody who knows how to shape a question.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry. Go ahead, Don.
I love the comments. I'm just here for the pot shots from the sideline, man.
You know that.

Speaker 2 Will's killing, and you're killing the pot shots from the sideline, by the way. I appreciate it, man.
Don't encourage him. I honestly have to attribute it a lot of it.

Speaker 2 I have to attribute a lot of it to

Speaker 2 my upbringing. I was very fortunate to have, and people get to it however they get to it.

Speaker 2 You know, I was very fortunate to have really solid parents, you know, really sort of, you know, corny, traditional picket fence, three, you know, the 3.5 kids and a dog and the whole thing.

Speaker 2 I really was able to grow up like that with parents that never dissuaded me from going after what I wanted to go after. That's great.

Speaker 2 I think it was, you know, really fortunate that my mom was sort of a frustrated, you know, performer, a frustrated singer. So when I wanted to be an actor, she was like, yes,

Speaker 2 go after that.

Speaker 3 Do you have an older sibling that knocked the crap out of you when you got too, too, too big?

Speaker 2 Yeah, well,

Speaker 2 she's a girl. So I like took advantage of the different muscles.
You know, I was stronger than her.

Speaker 2 And then we moved into weapons. And that's when it's like, oh, she's leveled the playing field.
So we got to chill out. And that's when we stopped fighting.

Speaker 2 but uh just really close-knit family and it's something i think i just wanted to replicate in my life and i'm really lucky that you know i have friends from when i was in elementary school still and from college and the people that i'm close to are still are still in my life and i think we all know people who have gotten to a certain place and have looked around and they don't know anybody that's no one that around them has been around them for five years and you go that person's probably going to have some problems so yeah you need people who will laugh at you and say you're not important chill out you know i don't keep those people around because because people can't breathe the air up here the way i can yeah you're one of the you're one of those people we were talking about will

Speaker 2 the air is so thin up here it's so it's so rarefied that i can barely i'm i'm i'm handing out masks to these two because i'm like guys we're going on a ride we're going somewhere we're going back or we're going down no it's so important i love that it is it is a measure of somebody by the way how many old friends they have from back in the day.

Speaker 2 And I think I'm with you on that. I think it's really great.
I've got a lot of my old buddies, too.

Speaker 3 Now, now, Don, I got a question here.

Speaker 3 You've been a part of so many incredible projects.

Speaker 3 I want to know if

Speaker 3 I want to know if any of them felt or smelt like turds right in the middle of it, and you were shocked at the end of it that it turned out so well.

Speaker 2 Projects like Crash,

Speaker 3 Oceans 11, 12, or 13, traffic, out of sight, boogie nights. I mean, yeah, any of the Marvel stuff, did any of them just like go, oh, Jesus, what did I do here?

Speaker 2 I think I've had the opposite where I'm like, this thing's going to crush. And then it comes out and like,

Speaker 2 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not so much.

Speaker 3 Not so much.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 I mean, we don't know, right? You just go in with, you know, your best, you know, you've made the best decision you could and you go in and throw everything into it.

Speaker 2 And then sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

Speaker 2 But I've never, you know, I've always had, I've always believed that the thing I've said yes to has value and it's going to be good and the experiences.

Speaker 2 And then it turns into being what it's going to be. I've been really fortunate to have really, really great experiences.
I've had very few

Speaker 2 experiences where it's it's a toxic set and people are horrible.

Speaker 2 You know, I've just been very, very, I've been, the things i've gravitated toward have gotten made and i've just been very very fortunate i've had a very blessed career you've clearly got a got a nice connection going with steven soderberg yeah yeah i heard the set of chernobyl was toxic nice will hey uh

Speaker 2 but but you you and you and you and soderberg have a great a great rhythm going yeah you see you see working with him again in the future probably yes of course right yeah i mean we we have stuff we're trying to develop things as we speak there's a couple things I love Out of Sight is such a great fucking movie, man.

Speaker 2 Isn't it good? So underrated and overlooked.

Speaker 2 Such a good movie. Yeah.
God damn it. Despite Clooney's looks, it's

Speaker 2 hard to get around.

Speaker 3 But Soderbergh's just, he's Soderbergh's such a beast, a good guy, too. But I mean, like, writing and directing and camera operating and editing.
And I just, I would imagine that's got to be

Speaker 3 an easy voice to follow, considering he's kind of.

Speaker 2 Are you trying to dovetail into you because that's no no no no that's what I'd like to do but can I take a minute to honestly ask you

Speaker 2 spike it he served it up

Speaker 2 guys take us take a look I do want to spike it yeah I'm a I'm a big I'm a big Jason Bateman fan I'm just gonna say I'm a big Jason Bateman fan and I'm really uh uh I love everything that I'm seeing you do and I saw you in a round table talking about you know understanding as an actor what you're going to be doing as an editor and knowing when you get into the editing room what you're going to be able to use and not use and how you kind of craft your performance based on that.

Speaker 2 And I was like, well,

Speaker 2 fucking smart and such a cheat. Yeah, it's really, it's really fun.
It's really fun because he lives his personal life like an editor, too. So he's always thinking about the roads.

Speaker 2 So he's trying to cut you off. Fuck off.
Yeah, trimming you.

Speaker 3 Well, now, well, what Don's doing here is he's dovetailing into his accomplishments as a director as well.

Speaker 2 I wanted to get into that.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 he has gone ahead and he's taken all the incredible set experience he's had and lent that to the directing experience, right? And made everybody's life a lot easier, I would imagine.

Speaker 3 You'll never do it again?

Speaker 2 Do you, oh, come on. Never do it again.
Why not? Bullshit. You mustn't do that.
I don't anticipate ever doing it again. Why? Well, come on.

Speaker 3 You've done it a handful of times at least.

Speaker 2 And this is enough.

Speaker 3 It's really. Why? Why?

Speaker 2 Is it the workload or the pressure or the time commitment or what?

Speaker 2 It's the pressure.

Speaker 2 Honestly, it's the pressure. It's, I think, you know, my agent one time said, you know, good actors are just like can be and sometimes need to just be hard sons of bitches.

Speaker 2 They just have to be able to, not necessarily in how they deal with people, but you have to have a...

Speaker 2 the ability to have stuff kind of roll off and be thick-skinned and not have it be, you know, penetrate and keep moving.

Speaker 2 And I think I have more, I'm more like sort of bandied about by the things that happen and the things I wasn't able to get. And

Speaker 2 I just, and it's something that I'm learned about myself going through that experience. I'm like, oh, well, I'm a lot more porous in that regard than I thought I was.

Speaker 3 As an actor, you can ignore a lot of drama or problems or complications with the production. And you just kind of sit in your trailer.
And then someone else will figure it out.

Speaker 3 As a director, you can't hide from anything.

Speaker 2 None of it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 And back to the show.

Speaker 2 John, you bring up a really good point, though. It is true.
You know, actors, as we know, historically, you take a lot of heat. People go like, oh, fucking actors.

Speaker 2 Or you hear people write, like, even people you grew up with, like, what's your life like now? You're an actor. You see that people have this sort of thing.

Speaker 2 And I always say, and they're like, oh, yeah, but you're just an actor. And I'm thinking, like, yeah, I am friends with, I am an actor.
I'm friends with tons of actors.

Speaker 2 There's some of the most creative, amazing people. And

Speaker 2 on top of that, to what you were saying, they're also, it is a tough road, as you know, from when you're younger to start to do the things that you want to do.

Speaker 2 And you have to, you do put up with a ton of disappointment. You get kicked in the nards on a daily basis.

Speaker 2 You know, my own experience, I lived in New York for 10 years and was trying to get fucking work and just got kicked in the nards.

Speaker 2 And then as I'd go down to wincing in pain from getting kicked in the nuts, I'd get kicked in the face. You know, like Jason's like you were saying, like, the show's not, here's the benefit.

Speaker 2 You're fired. And then the next day, the show is fucking gone.
And you're like, fuck, fuck, I didn't need those two kicks.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, and by the way, and it's not once a year, it's like two, three times a week for years.

Speaker 3 That's if things are going well for you, because those two or three, those two or three rejections each week mean you got two or three auditions that week, which is really good.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I'm not saying to feel sorry for it, but it is right, Don? It's a tough, it just does. You do have to have a little bit of, you know, you show your metal a little bit.
Well,

Speaker 2 for me, I really could, I'd sound like an idiot, Aaron, you know, complaining about anything about my acting career because, again, I was super, super fortunate.

Speaker 2 I've never done anything but this to support myself.

Speaker 2 I, you know, got my first job when I was still in college, in my, you know, my junior year. I got a gig.

Speaker 2 Oh, I did get fired from a job. That was actually the first job.
I got an AT ⁇ T commercial.

Speaker 2 where a kid was supposed to be on the phone and sort of trying to dodge the questions that his mom was asking because he was not doing so well. She goes, how are your grades? And he's like, my grades?

Speaker 2 I can't hear you. This connection is bad.
She's like, no, I can hear you great. And it was AT ⁇ T.
You know, you can't fake the funk. You know, it was like one of those things.

Speaker 2 So I was running on my, I was going out of the door to do this audition and the phone rang in the hallway. And I just kind of knew it was for me.
And I picked it up. It was my agent.

Speaker 2 She goes, ah, Don, bad news.

Speaker 2 They're not going to use you in the spot.

Speaker 2 I was like, what? Why? She goes, they don't want to portray a black kid as failing out of college. I was like, so they're gonna give a white kid my job.

Speaker 2 Wow, yeah, the irony of that.

Speaker 2 That's what's gonna happen. So that I actually did get fired from a job I got.
That was the first one.

Speaker 2 But yeah, but for me, the acting thing has been, I've been, like I said, I've been very blessed, very fortunate.

Speaker 2 But the directing part of it, yeah, it's um, it's really just, it's, it's been these particular experiences I've had, not when I've directed my show.

Speaker 2 That's a little bit more of a comfort zone, a little bit more support I've had, and a little bit more resources and people to rely on. But, you know,

Speaker 2 we made Miles ahead for $8.5 million

Speaker 2 in a town that had, you know, only done one other movie before that where we would show up and there was like no redundancy in the departments. You know, we'd have two cameras and only one cameraman.

Speaker 2 I'd be like, where's Phil? It's like, oh, he took a commercial in Dayton. You know, yeah yeah

Speaker 2 you know coming in one day and i was like where's the we had her in the scene she's like yeah she didn't want to come today i'm like but we she's in the scene they're like yeah yeah she doesn't want to come so i'm like put this woman in the dress turn her back to the camera like every day it was something like that always solving problems just but the huge problems that didn't make sense like the fire alarm going off and then the fire then the the actual fireman coming and coming in while we're shooting the scene and so okay i'll just we'll shoot this mos and just mime all these and we'll do it in post.

Speaker 2 I get, you know, just every day it was something like that.

Speaker 2 My wife came out to see me and she said, you can't do this anymore. You know, I lost weight.
It was just, it was just bad. So I have a lot of scar tissue.

Speaker 2 So maybe if I get, you know, some sort of procedure where I can scrape that off, I'll try it again.

Speaker 1 For the emotional scars. I have a question just about your acting style and approach, because when I first saw Ocean's 11,

Speaker 1 and which you were brilliant in, I'm not making this up. Like halfway through the movie, because of your accent, I was like, oh, wait, is that

Speaker 1 Don Cheadle?

Speaker 2 Like, you didn't do anything to your appearance.

Speaker 1 You just changed your kind of way.

Speaker 1 I don't know how to describe it. And it's amazing what an act, just an accent can do.
How did you find the trust to do that? Why that character like that?

Speaker 1 And how do you do that like in any character you approach?

Speaker 2 It was written like that, and I was going to change it.

Speaker 2 And my manager at that point said, there aren't black British people. I was like, oh, I mean, yeah.
She's like, so why don't you just do it as how it's written? And I was like, yeah, fuck.

Speaker 1 Oh, so it's written like that.

Speaker 2 And so while I'm in my trailer with, you know, a vocal coach, a speech coach going over like diphthongs and schwas and stuff, they're out playing basketball.

Speaker 2 I'm like sitting in my trailer watching them play poker and have fun. And I'm like, you know, no, this works.
No, uh, no, ah, no, uh.

Speaker 2 Sean, stand up. Sean, stand up real quick.
He's, Sean's wearing a diphthong. Let's stand up real quick.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's nice. That's a nice diphthong.

Speaker 2 But I was famously murdered. You know, people hate, people are split right in the middle on that.
The people that hate that hate it.

Speaker 2 When I was in London, I almost had to get security because people wanted to kill me. Your accent.
How bad they thought that accent. Oh, the accent.
And why? They hated it and me.

Speaker 2 People literally drove. They would see me and come across four lanes of traffic to pull up next to me to scream at me about how bad the accent was.
I was like, oh, my God, I totally bought it.

Speaker 2 I physically bought it.

Speaker 3 Is it safe to say you'll never do another British accent again?

Speaker 2 Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Speaker 3 Yeah, doing an accent, I believe, that would be

Speaker 3 very, very tough for me because you're acting twice, right? You got to do performance and you got to do the acting.

Speaker 2 And some somehow. So would you make them pay twice, Jay? I know Jay very well.
Would you make them pay twice?

Speaker 3 I would like to.

Speaker 2 i would like to are you gonna say dan

Speaker 2 no i'm just gonna say and some of them you know fit better than others that i've attempted to take on you know but they're all like you said it's all tricky like you're kind of acting through a mask and you're trying to make that mask be as as as real and as facile as you can it's tricky right right right now of all of these incredibly high-profile films which one do you think gave you the the the most

Speaker 3 useful bounce?

Speaker 3 Was it Devil in the Blue Dress?

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I would guess. Devil in the Blue Dress was probably, I was on picket fences for a couple years before that.
Oh, wow. You know, I was 12th on the call sheet, and you guys know what that is.

Speaker 2 I'm sitting in the trailer all day, and they're like, we're coming to you next. We're coming to you next.
And then like, oh, no, we're not going to use you today.

Speaker 2 And you'd been in the trailer for 12 hours. So I started writing.
That's when I started writing and just as survival,

Speaker 2 just to not go crazy.

Speaker 3 But then along comes this film with Denzel Washington. And it was,

Speaker 3 did you leave that project with any pearls of wisdom from Mr. Washington?

Speaker 2 I mean, it was an incredible experience. It was directed by Carl Franklin, who

Speaker 2 I did his AFI thesis. project, you know, his ASI, his graduation project.
So I had known him from before. So that was really old home and felt great.

Speaker 2 And Denzel and i from the audition on which is online actually our audition is online oh no no um

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 2 and so is that pilot that i mentioned by the way every

Speaker 2 find

Speaker 2 and upload everything but um

Speaker 2 we just had a great time and of course i was just in awe of him

Speaker 2 and you know worked as hard as i've ever worked on anything to make sure I was in the pocket, you know, when I was with him. I didn't come out.
I was super methody.

Speaker 2 I was not a great character, I was mouse all the time, you know, I just stayed in it. And I, yeah, I had a great experience.
I love that movie, and I love that experience.

Speaker 3 Would you, if you had, if you had, say, you had a scene with a, because, you know, you're Denzel now to

Speaker 3 a young actor, if you were to do a film with it, what, what, what would you say to a young actor today that you wish you'd known back when you were just starting out? You know, anything.

Speaker 2 Sound fucking life. Right.

Speaker 3 Don't you upstage me or shadow me?

Speaker 2 Don't you dare attempt to overshadow me.

Speaker 3 But we do have a tendency to overcomplicate things, right? And things get more simplistic as we get older.

Speaker 3 You know, I wondered, aside from just that generality,

Speaker 3 is there anything specific? I'm trying to think myself what I would tell somebody, you know?

Speaker 2 Probably, probably step away from my BMW.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Which of your BMWs, Mr. Guy? That's a great.
That's Very good.

Speaker 2 I just think that, you know, like we, I think people

Speaker 2 underestimate, you know, to what Will was saying earlier is what we really do. I think people think it's super, super easy and then they try it and they're like, oh, you're actually

Speaker 2 trying to.

Speaker 2 be very naturalistic inside a completely unnatural environment where somebody's standing in your eye line chewing gum and you know somebody else is making noise off and somebody's you know walkie-talkie's going off and you've got to act like this is the first time you've ever done or said any of these things and

Speaker 2 I think that you only do that well if you're really prepared and you've really done your homework and you're not here just because you think it's going to be cool to cut line at a restaurant you know it's like right this is this is a real this is really i'm not we're not rocket scientists and we're not you know jumping out of airplanes or whatever the hardest shit there is to do or ditch digging but there is a crap.

Speaker 2 We play them. That's what we play the shit out of them.
And we learn about them. That's another thing.
Good actors are students. So we're always in the lab, right?

Speaker 2 We're always trying to, if I play a doctor, I'm going to read up on doctors. I'm going to follow doctors.
I'm going to go to hospitals. I'm going to try to sit next to them.

Speaker 2 If I'm playing a cop, I'm going to do a ride along. I'm going to.
So I feel like that part of it often gets overlooked, that we're always in school. We're always trying to learn new things.
So

Speaker 2 I think that's a great boon for us as artists, that we're always

Speaker 2 expanding ourselves.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Now, Sean doesn't want you to get away without, you know, searching your memory for a really tough theater story, you know, like forgetting your lines or trying to get

Speaker 2 a sandbag fell from above.

Speaker 2 And I landed in the first row in the woman's lap. And she said, you think you're drunk.
Wait till O'Toole comes out or something like that, right, Sean? Is that what you were doing?

Speaker 2 Oh, you were at that performance.

Speaker 2 You were there. That's exactly right.
But I said, wait till my tool comes out.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Double guns. Double guns.

Speaker 2 Donchalant. Donchalant.
Donchalant strikes again.

Speaker 2 Is that you, Sean?

Speaker 1 Oh, this is me singing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's horrible. Here we go.

Speaker 2 It's so bad.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Is that tabla? Is that some tabla?

Speaker 2 Okay, that's good. You know what it is? It's like Jimmy Somerville from Bronsky Beat was put in the back of a van and driven to Beirut and forced to make a Middle Eastern dance record.

Speaker 2 Jimmy Somerville in Beirut. That was the name of the album.

Speaker 2 Oh, shot.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Did you ever see, by the way, did you ever see Ricky Gervais's music videos or anything?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Those are tough.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yeah.
That's what that's I'm similar path.

Speaker 1 But yeah, do you have any like tragic, horrible theater gone wrong?

Speaker 2 My tragic, the most tragic thing other than a real injury that I suffered during a play. Same play, by the way.
We were doing Cymbeline at the Public

Speaker 2 that Joanna Collidis directed, who, you know, is experimental director from Mabu Minds. If people want to go back and look at all that stuff, she's great.

Speaker 2 But we had an actor, Stefan Schnabel,

Speaker 2 who played the doctor in this play.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it's, you know, kind of

Speaker 2 a stereotypical Shakespeare fifth act wrap-up where one character knows everything that happened in the play. Like, you're his niece.
And she actually has the potion.

Speaker 2 And this king knew him as a, like, they unwrap the whole thing. We're all on stage going, oh, that's how I thought of that.
So he had this last, you know, speech that he had to give.

Speaker 2 Stefan was, I think, 98 at the time. Uh-oh.
Wow.

Speaker 2 So it comes time for him to wrap this up and he goes up.

Speaker 3 Forgets his lines.

Speaker 2 Yeah, forgets his line, goes up, forgets his lines for those who want to theater vernacular.

Speaker 2 And he starts

Speaker 2 stammering and making up words and

Speaker 2 basically just sort of like trouble, you know, standing in place and teetering.

Speaker 2 and no one you can't give somebody in Shakespeare you know it's not we're not doing something naturalistic you can't come up with some I you could try to come up with some iambic pentameter and like slip a line in there to help him along the way but it went on so long that First the audience sort of laughed and then realized, oh, it's not a bit and stopped laughing.

Speaker 2 And then the other half of the audience laughed and then half the audience shushed that part of the audience that laughed.

Speaker 2 And then the actors on stage kind kind of were starting to laugh. You know, those two that would start to laugh.
And everyone's like, shut the fuck up. And everybody stops laughing.

Speaker 2 And he's still kind of

Speaker 2 trying to pull it off.

Speaker 3 He doesn't think anyone's noticed.

Speaker 2 Trying to pull it off. This went on for probably

Speaker 2 two minutes. You know how long two minutes is.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, you guys have died for two minutes for sure, collectively, on this show. Oh, 100%.

Speaker 3 It feels like a long time.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a long time.

Speaker 3 And finally, it's not.

Speaker 2 Joan Cuzak, who was the lead in it, who played Simbling, just finally just started saying his lines. She just couldn't take it anymore.

Speaker 2 And he kind of revved up and got through it and then got off stage and he said, I want to kill myself.

Speaker 2 I have to quit. I've never wanted to be a kid.
You're like, you're 98. There's no point.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you're going to be dead soon, I guess, is what Joan said to try to

Speaker 2 bolster his ego. Good lord.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's the scariest thing.

Speaker 2 Wow, fuck.

Speaker 2 It was really sad.

Speaker 2 Going up in your dialogue like that on stage.

Speaker 1 It's the scariest thing in the world.

Speaker 2 Right? There's just nothing. You don't don't need that crap at 98.
There's nowhere to hide. Yeah.
Yeah, there's nowhere to hide.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 But now, Don, you're like one of the sweetest people ever. What pisses you off?

Speaker 1 Because I can't, the few times I've met you, even today, you're always just very in the middle, very cool, calm, collected.

Speaker 1 Is there something

Speaker 2 to kill me? I said I'm on that gummy program. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I bet he's not happy when he blades a bunker shot, right? You hit that ball right in the belly coming out of the sand trap. It's just, you never have to piss you off.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Immediately, but then I kind of let it go, you know. I think like stupidity without any desire to not be stupid pisses me off.
I don't mind if you're stupid. People can be stupid.
But when they're

Speaker 2 like incurious and don't want to actually look under the stupidity and see where that stupidity is better than themselves, that that kind of pisses me.

Speaker 2 And, you know, as we can see, it's incredibly dangerous. And, you know,

Speaker 2 we're in a sweet spot of stupidity right now for a lot of people.

Speaker 2 And would that, would that, and that, would that extend across all sort of areas, that sort of stupidity, like whether it's history or language or just geography, even basic geography of states and cities within the country that we live.

Speaker 2 Uh-oh. And like no one usually knows where a city was.
Yeah, like they don't know what a city is. It's been explained to them like a city.

Speaker 2 This feels like a shot. This is definitely.
Hey, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think Will is just trying to use it in a second.

Speaker 2 It's very general. I'm just trying to get a general sense of what Donald.
Because Sean, remember earlier in the show, I know I had a problem with cancer. Well, ignorance isn't stupidity.

Speaker 2 You know, ignorance is anyone can be ignorant.

Speaker 2 That's true. Anybody can be ignorant.
Thank you, Jason. So, Don,

Speaker 2 Don, honestly, you've been a dream.

Speaker 2 You're such a cool guy. We've never hung out.
We threatened once. I was on a

Speaker 2 Joey Russo wanted me to get into Football Fantasy League, and I said no. And Joe said, well, just stay in the chat and talk shit, even though you don't want to play.
And I did for about six months.

Speaker 2 I mean, really? Yeah, you were in there. You were in there.

Speaker 2 It was great. Don, Pratt, and Rujo.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It was fun.
It was a lot like this, just like pot shots from the side. It was a lot of hot shots.

Speaker 3 Well, you know, Will, Will, you and Don should go out and play some golf while I'm on my golf hiatus. And then I'll read you

Speaker 3 guys in the end of fall.

Speaker 2 Why are you on a hiatus?

Speaker 2 He's on a hiatus because he's working.

Speaker 2 He shot an an even par 70 yeah but

Speaker 2 who cares really

Speaker 3 it's not a big deal but listen thank you for joining us today don't

Speaker 2 will you make me this pledge when you come back that you and i will play can we do that can we say that'll happen 100 okay great he's the absolute sean do you play this should be the foursome i i can i always say i can drive the cart he loves to drive the cart it's a day so much fun we get him a soda we get him like a float like a root beer float.

Speaker 2 And he drinks. No, Donnie, next time, next time you're...

Speaker 2 It's soda. Sometimes it's really simple, but it's a lot of sugar.
It's a lot.

Speaker 2 He's very groggy. And by the 17th old, he's kind of irritable.
A little.

Speaker 2 Guys, it's good. Just pick it up.
We got to go.

Speaker 2 That's totally me.

Speaker 3 Love you, Don. Thank you for saying yes.

Speaker 2 Love you, pal.

Speaker 3 Enjoy the rest of your day down there in Atlanta and say hi to our friend, Mr. Hart, please.

Speaker 2 I will. Thanks, guys.
Great seeing you today. God, great to see you, dude.

Speaker 3 Thank you, Don.

Speaker 2 Bye, buddy. Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 I love Don Chalant. It's so good.
JB, what a great, what a great

Speaker 2 guest. God, he's so good.

Speaker 3 Doesn't your shoulders just drop when you're talking to him? Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's cool. I mean, he's just

Speaker 2 mega talent. He falls into that category.

Speaker 3 Mega talent. And universally loved.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 we say this all the time. It seems like the people who work all the time also have wonderful personalities.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 Well, Jamie, you know, you're a director. It's a big part of your career now and your life.
And when you're deciding between, you have a lot of options to do stuff with a lot of different people.

Speaker 2 And part of the calculus, I imagine, is who do I want to spend the next four months with? It's huge.

Speaker 3 And it's before I even start to get excited about the idea of them coming on. And that's cast or crew.

Speaker 3 i'll do zooms with people that i may not even see on the set um and i just need to know that they're not going to um you know wreck it with their right not being nice people yeah important

Speaker 3 um but he is uh

Speaker 3 he's amazing um and uh

Speaker 2 that could have i could have just gone on forever and ever we didn't get to much of anything which is uh what we do on this show um sorry no we get a lot of complaints about that i think that some from some people who say like oh you guys didn't you just and what they forget is, like, we're just so excited to see Don.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Right.
So a guy like Don, so we just start talking.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we're not journalists. We're just three dummies that want to just talk a little bit and can't believe anyone's listening.

Speaker 2 So if you're like, oh, why didn't you, why didn't you get to what Don's favorite dog type is? We're like, sorry. We were just excited.
We just wanted to talk shit with him. Yeah.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 3 that's on the Smartlist Extras if you want to know his favorite dog type.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Or talk about like vacation spots.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't know, like,

Speaker 2 has he ever been to Thailand or Mumbai? Lumbai.

Speaker 2 Mumbai!

Speaker 2 You blaze right over it, Mumbai.

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