"Lars Ulrich"

Speaker 1 AutoTrader is powered by Auto Intelligence. Their tools sync with your exact budget and preferences to tailor the entire car shopping experience to you.

Speaker 1 Want a pink mid-size SUV with 22-inch rims and a V8? They got it. Nothing's too specific.

Speaker 1 Find your dream car at the right price in no time because AutoTrader, powered by Auto Intelligence, puts you in control of the whole experience from search to close.

Speaker 1 It's the totally you way to buy a car. Visit auto trader.com to find your perfect ride.

Speaker 1 Nobody wants to spend the holiday season clicking from one site to the next to get their hands on the best brands. But who knew Walmart has the top brands we all love?

Speaker 1 Like the big names that your friends and family actually want and all in one place. Nespresso, Nespresso, Nintendo, Apple, you name it.
Get the brands everyone loves at prices you'll love at Walmart.

Speaker 1 Who knew? Go to walmart.com or download the app to get all your gifts this season.

Speaker 1 What did the ocean say to the beach?

Speaker 1 Nothing. It just waved.

Speaker 1 Nice. Okay.
That's pretty good.

Speaker 1 You want one last one?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yep, please.

Speaker 1 Where do you learn to make a banana split? I don't know where. Sunday school.
Oh, man, that's good.

Speaker 2 Welcome to Smartless, everybody.

Speaker 1 Welcome, everyone.

Speaker 1 Smart

Speaker 1 Less.

Speaker 1 Smart

Speaker 1 Less.

Speaker 1 Smart

Speaker 1 Let us.

Speaker 1 I've been watching all these interviews with William Friedkin, who directed movies that we can't name, but

Speaker 1 amazing interviews.

Speaker 2 Are we celebrating a life lost?

Speaker 1 Yeah, we are. And he was a tremendous, tremendous artist.
And just one of the funny things, I just read this thing, talking about going to this, speaking to these students.

Speaker 1 And the student said, I'm about to shoot my student film. What format should I shoot it in? And he said, who gives a shit?

Speaker 1 is that true William said that

Speaker 1 true story

Speaker 1 oh maybe

Speaker 1 he directed a scary movie that I can't watch today because it's so scary hey hey Sean I know we talk about this a lot but it's enough already from me from my mouth what no you being in New York I know

Speaker 1 can we have a date now I'm sure this is gonna air past the date because I feel like we're close how much longer three weeks 21 shows Sean I got sent a picture yesterday from somebody whom you do not know, my friend Elizabeth, and she sent me a photo.

Speaker 1 Her partner sent a photo of her. She didn't want her to leave her seat, and he took a photo because she was at your show in the balcony.
And she was so moved.

Speaker 1 She sat there for like 20 minutes, like just reacting to it. She was so moved by your

Speaker 1 true story. Yeah.
Wow. It was two nights ago.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's so sweet. It's please tell her thank you.
And wait, two things though. One is Scotty being stuck here, Jay, to your point, treated me to a helicopter ride the other day.
Will yeah.

Speaker 1 Hopefully he wasn't flying. No, he was not flying.
Okay. And we flew so close to, because we haven't left or done anything in six months.

Speaker 1 Literally, apartment theater, apartment theater. And so we flew around and the helicopter came really close to the Statue of Liberty, like really close.
It was unbelievable.

Speaker 1 I'd never seen it that close.

Speaker 2 So Scotty just said, hey, let's go take a helicopter trip around the city.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because we haven't done anything. Just to do something.
Just to get a look. That sounds great.
Yeah. Have you ever done that?

Speaker 2 No, I would love to. Now, I'm a little,

Speaker 2 I'm not a huge fan of helicopters. I love their mobility, their flexibility, and all that stuff.
But, you know, there's zero glide potential.

Speaker 1 It's the glide. It's the glide, right? What do you mean? What do you mean, glide?

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, it's sort of a, it's a, it's, it's, it's fool's comfort anyway to think, you know, the plane has glide potential if the uh if the engines go to shit.

Speaker 1 Well, the guy told me that.

Speaker 3 The guy's like, because I'm like, what's the plan?

Speaker 1 He's like, oh, no, if the engines. That's how you started the trip.
We were in the air. And I talked about it.
I shouldn't have because it freaked me out.

Speaker 1 And he goes, look, if the engines fail and they won't, he goes, you just glide down to the bottom. It's got like that potential.
So is he like? What the helicopter does? Helicopter?

Speaker 2 What kind of helicopter were we on? Did it have a bunch of

Speaker 1 wings on it?

Speaker 1 Or a bunch of birds attached to it? Have you ever seen a sack of potatoes dropped?

Speaker 1 It just falls, man.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 there's some physics.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So anyway, I mean, listen,

Speaker 2 I don't think that's how any of us, none of our listeners, none of us, that's not how we're going.

Speaker 1 No. No,

Speaker 1 I know what you mean. When the thing took off and, you know, it wobbles when it takes off left to right, left to right.
Yeah. And it's like, it's pretty scary.

Speaker 2 You're going to choke on a wonton one day, and that's how you're going to go.

Speaker 1 It's like, Scotty, I can get one more in here. Give it to me.

Speaker 2 And that'll be it for you.

Speaker 1 Just the word wonton.

Speaker 1 Wanton. Are you kidding? That sounds pretty.
He's going to choke on the fucking fucking heel of a loaf of wonder. He's like, well, it's still bread.
I'll just have the heel.

Speaker 1 Just a white literally load it up. Do you ever make bread balls or you take the center of the white bread and you just you ball it up with a song? Look at it.
It's a bread meatball. I collect heels.

Speaker 1 I just make heels. All my sandwiches are heels of loaves of bread.

Speaker 1 We ate tortillas just a tortilla. No shit.
Well, it's 9 a.m., so that makes sense. Hey, listen.

Speaker 1 We ever make

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 you know, I love music music. I love music.
Uh-oh.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I love all kinds of different music, man. I always have.

Speaker 1 I've always had a, I like to think that I have an eclectic taste because sometimes I think, well, I'm just kind of a dinosaur sort of 90s indie rock guy, but I'm not. I'm kind of all over the place.

Speaker 2 You're the one that told Paul Simon to go down to Africa and do Graceland, right? You

Speaker 1 explored these sounds.

Speaker 1 But I've been into, you know, we've had a lot of great musicians on the show, and I've been a friend of them all, whether it's from sort of New Wave or, you know, whatever, to classic rock and roll to, you know,

Speaker 1 I don't know, just everything. Think about it.
And today's guest is such a representative of an entire genre of music that they kind of inspired

Speaker 1 so many musicians, and not just of their genre, but of all genres.

Speaker 1 It's It's so rare when somebody from one genre is able to inspire people across all different types of music. You got Madonna.
Unbelievable.

Speaker 1 This person is.

Speaker 1 Madonna.

Speaker 1 He joined us from overseas, born in Denmark, and then moved to the U.S. and formed a band that has sold nearly 120 million albums worldwide.
That's money.

Speaker 1 Generating more than 15 billion streams.

Speaker 1 He's from Denmark? Yeah, I mean, nine Grammy Awards, two American Music Awards, multiple MTV movie video awards,

Speaker 1 2009 induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Speaker 1 Just all over the place. They've done it all.
They played with everybody. This is none other than one of my all-time faves.
It's Lars Ulrich of Metallica. Good lord.
Way.

Speaker 3 Lars. And now the high-tech reveal.
See if I can do this.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 Also known as, hi. My name is Bread Balls.

Speaker 1 I like bread balls. Bread balls.
Bread balls, hi. Bread balls.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Or otherwise known as Michael Cooper's best friend.

Speaker 1 How's Cooper? Yes, that's right. Michael Cooper.

Speaker 3 He's texting me as we're speaking, and he's texting you.

Speaker 2 You know, now Michael Cooper's got one of these ailments that I think affects a lot of people.

Speaker 1 Tell us who's doing it.

Speaker 2 Michael Cooper is a guy I used to work with. Sure.

Speaker 2 And now he's working with fancier folks than me. But

Speaker 2 he uses the send button as a period when he texts people.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 That's 23 texts showing up at one time is a normal five minutes from Michael Cooper. But they're all sent with love.

Speaker 1 I know. And kisses.

Speaker 3 I love him. And pictures of himself driving.
How many pictures of Michael Cooper do you have of him driving?

Speaker 2 Driving, showing off a watch or a new hairstyle or a new set of glasses. You know, I'm not on, I didn't sign up up for the Cooper fan letter.

Speaker 1 I love them, though.

Speaker 3 As long as you have an iPhone and a text message thread with him, you're in that fan club.

Speaker 2 I love him.

Speaker 3 I just want to say one thing that,

Speaker 3 and I'm sure you guys have heard this before, but you don't need guests on your show. Just the seven-minute banter there before the reveal, that's plenty.

Speaker 2 That's all dumbness.

Speaker 3 I've taken some potential Metallica titles away from this. I think Bread Balls is the one to beat.

Speaker 3 I like Zero Glide Potential

Speaker 1 a lot.

Speaker 3 That sounds more like an album title.

Speaker 1 Great hard rock title.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think Zero, that's, you know,

Speaker 2 they did it before. It's called Led Zeppelin.
Oh, right.

Speaker 1 Zero Glide Potential.

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's a lot of bad jokes in there that we should shy away from. And then the last thing I would say also, is it Madonna?

Speaker 3 I like that one too.

Speaker 2 Is the merrier of all genres?

Speaker 1 Dude, dude, Lars, thank you for doing this, man. It's so great to have you.

Speaker 1 Right back at you and uh i had the good fortune of uh hanging out just a couple times with lars a few years ago uh through mutual friends that's right um and and i've always and of course i didn't want to you know drill you with it at the time and embarrass you i've always been such a fan of metallica and your music and

Speaker 1 And one of the things that I did not know, and I guess a lot of hardcore Metallica fans did know this, was I didn't know that you actually moved to the States just to play tennis.

Speaker 1 I knew that you were a tennis player and that you were a competitive tennis player, but I didn't know that that was the whole purpose of your move was to play tennis. Is that true?

Speaker 3 Whole purpose was to.

Speaker 3 So my father, I grew up in Copenhagen, Denmark, as you guys circled.

Speaker 1 And you were born there? Born, yeah.

Speaker 3 Born and raised in Copenhagen. And my dad was a professional tennis player.
And

Speaker 3 I come from a family of tennis players. So his brother was one of the other greats in the country.
And at one point,

Speaker 3 the Davis Cup, the Danish Davis Cup team was my dad, his brother, and the captain was their dad.

Speaker 3 So it's a long line of famous tennis greats in Denmark, and I, of course, wanted to follow in their footsteps.

Speaker 3 So when I finished school in 1979 in Denmark, I ended up in Bradenton, Florida, the first year of Nick Boliterre's tennis academy.

Speaker 1 No way. And you moved because of tennis? Is that what you moved? Yes.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Nick Boliteri Tennis Academy, which at the time, by the way, was revolutionary.

Speaker 1 It was like the real place where a lot of these famous young tennis-dedicated tennis players went, right? It was like the first of its kind. Am I right, Ars?

Speaker 3 And it was also a transitional time in tennis where,

Speaker 3 you know, up till the mid-70s to the late 70s, the best tennis players all over the world were the ones that had the most talent. But as it shifted in the late 70s,

Speaker 3 the best tennis players ended up becoming the ones that worked the hardest at it and played, you know, six, eight hours a day and doing drills and worked in the weight room and

Speaker 3 all this type of stuff. That there was a seismic shift in the whole setup.
And I went the first year to Nick Boliterry's.

Speaker 3 And then after that, we moved out to Southern California, ended up in Newport Beach, where I was going to attend Colonel Del Mar High School

Speaker 3 with my dad's friend, the tennis grade from Australia, Roy Emerson, his son Anthony.

Speaker 3 And so in Denmark, up through those years, in my junior years, I was ranked in the top 10 consistently in the country.

Speaker 3 And when I came out to Southern California and went to Colonel Del Mar High School as a junior in 11th grade, I did not, I did not, this is a true story, I did not make the fucking tennis team.

Speaker 3 I was not, I was not one of the, I was not one of the seven best players at Colonel Del Mar High School. Jesus.
So

Speaker 3 the whole tennis dream and following in the Ulrich footsteps that came crashing down, no pun intended, to the zero blide potential there, but

Speaker 3 that came crashing down in one afternoon. And then rock and roll was

Speaker 3 hovering in the trenches and took over.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 But wait, so Lars, you make this, I mean, and you sort of, you talk about it very openly and the fact that, yeah, I knew that you have this, this, come from this dynasty, this Danish tennis dynastic family.

Speaker 1 And then you move to, you go to Nick Boliterry, and then you come to Southern California.

Speaker 1 And like you say, in one afternoon, like all of a sudden, what, you try out, they put out the list for the tennis team, you're not on it. And you're like, well, there goes everything.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, you know, I've heard myself obviously tell that story 9,000 times.
So it gets shorter and shorter and becomes more of a soundbite. But it is pretty much what happened.

Speaker 3 Music was always hovering and music was my escape away from the discipline of tennis. And I'd been playing both guitar and drums.

Speaker 3 in Denmark and,

Speaker 3 you know, as you, I was 17 at the time, as you, you know, you get a little older and you start drinking a few beers and looking at the girls differently and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 And things change. And, but I was,

Speaker 3 it pretty much came crashing down.

Speaker 1 Did you teach yourself to play guitar and drums or were you doing it like through a...

Speaker 3 In school in Denmark.

Speaker 1 In school?

Speaker 3 What language do they speak in Denmark?

Speaker 1 They speak Danish. And do you speak?

Speaker 1 Can I talk to you for a second? Sorry, Laura. Just come over here for one second.
So sorry, dude. And you still speak it?

Speaker 1 Just not a further dance.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, still to take dance.
Yeah, yeah, 100% dance.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah,

Speaker 1 your mic's going out.

Speaker 1 You're going over here.

Speaker 3 I'm still proudly, you know, there's only five million of us, and we keep it. We keep it loud and proud.
And I'm still a Danish citizen, actually, and still travel on my Danish bass.

Speaker 1 Wow, that's so cool. Now,

Speaker 2 so then, so did you learn these two instruments in school?

Speaker 2 It wasn't a music school, was it? Or was it just a

Speaker 3 Danish public school?

Speaker 2 Pick an elective, and band was one of them, and you gravitated toward those two instruments. Was that that simple?

Speaker 1 Ish, yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, I was, you know, my dad,

Speaker 3 my dad's passion away from tennis was also music. So I grew up in a very, you know, musically rich household.

Speaker 3 You know, there was a lot of, you know, all the jazz greats from, you know, Miles Davis to Coltrane to Charlie Parker to Dexter Gordon. All these,

Speaker 3 and a lot of Hendrix and Doors and Rolling Stones playing out of my dad's music room all the time. So there was a lot of music in the family and in the household.

Speaker 2 Was there a particular band or drummer or guitarist that got you to want to

Speaker 2 jump into those two instruments? Or was it just...

Speaker 3 When I was, I started going to concerts in Denmark early. I was nine years old when I went to see Deep Purple.

Speaker 3 And over the next couple of years, like 74, 75, I saw bands like The Sweet and Slade and Status Quo and Kiss came to Denmark in 76.

Speaker 3 And then it started, you know, going into Thin Lizzie and Rainbow and so on. But Deep Purple was my first real music experience and has always been the North Star for me.

Speaker 1 What about drummers? Who were the drummers that you were like, yes?

Speaker 3 Ian Pace from Deep Purple, the guy with the round glasses,

Speaker 3 who was just insane driving deep purple.

Speaker 3 I gravitated towards also Phil Rudd from ACDC, who's obviously very different than Ian Pace.

Speaker 3 But he was a huge, huge inspiration.

Speaker 2 How did it go over with your family? That was, you say, a big tennis family. I'm assuming that there wasn't a lot of hard rock happening in the car on the way.
back and forth to the courts.

Speaker 1 How did they feel about it?

Speaker 3 Well, there was a lot of anything happening in the car because I biked to school

Speaker 1 starting in second place.

Speaker 2 That big sort of career pivot for you and lifestyle pivot for you.

Speaker 1 Were they cool with that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, my dad was very,

Speaker 3 was very forgiving with all that. Like I said before,

Speaker 3 his passion was music. He actually wrote about jazz music for some Danish publications.
And at that time,

Speaker 3 excuse me, in the 50s and 60s.

Speaker 3 especially Copenhagen, but Stockholm to a degree and obviously Paris

Speaker 3 were just the European

Speaker 3 havens for American jazz music. So many of the American jazz greats came to Europe, spent a lot of time in Scandinavia.
People like Ben Webster lived

Speaker 3 in Copenhagen. Dexter Gordon lived in Copenhagen.

Speaker 3 John Chikai,

Speaker 3 but Copenhagen was very much a hotbed for jazz music at the time.

Speaker 1 Growing up too, like kind of to Jason's point, like were you

Speaker 1 your parents, because I always thought when I we lived, we grew up in a super small house and I was always playing piano, practice piano, and it drove everybody crazy because it was so tiny.

Speaker 1 How in the world, like Jason and Will, what if your kids just like, oh, dad, I want to play drums?

Speaker 1 I mean, that going on in the house constantly.

Speaker 2 We got the electric ones now with the headsets with the headsets.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they can be. Oh, that'd be all right.

Speaker 2 That's true. No, we didn't have that back in the day, right, Lars?

Speaker 3 They didn't have those back in the day. No, we, um, I had a room down in the basement

Speaker 3 where I had a little music room where I had my records and my record player.

Speaker 3 And I got a drum kit, a small piece together drum kit down, and I could bash away down in the basement and do my thing down there without pissing off too many of us. That's so good.

Speaker 1 I can't imagine that going through the house all the time. I mean, it's great that you did it and everybody does it.

Speaker 2 Now, Lars, you know,

Speaker 2 us soft, you know,

Speaker 2 actors,

Speaker 2 we fantasize about

Speaker 2 life on the, you know, you're pretty soft too.

Speaker 2 You hard rock, you know, traveling and touring and having all that fun.

Speaker 2 And well, you look so good, so healthy, so not like you've been on the road in like arguably the biggest rock and roll band ever for years and years and years.

Speaker 2 Has the touring changed now in the past decade or so such that you don't look like death warmed over it? Like,

Speaker 2 how does it all work now? You guys get to bed early. It's now shaking.

Speaker 1 title.

Speaker 1 It's not 30 beers. It's just 15.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a protein shake, right?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 some mindfulness.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you know,

Speaker 3 the short answer is yes. You know, we just played

Speaker 3 a couple shows out at MetLife Stadium on Friday and Sunday here in New York.

Speaker 3 where I'm checking in from and

Speaker 3 we're on our way up to Montreal in a couple days. So right now we're playing, we're playing every Friday and Sunday

Speaker 3 for the rest of the next, for the rest of the summer. We play two shows in each city.
So the travel is less and it's a weekend thing.

Speaker 3 And it is

Speaker 3 protein shakes, it's tofu, it's vegetables.

Speaker 3 It's, you know, if, if, if, if my 20 or 30 year old self was on this podcast with you guys, he would be sitting going, what the fuck are you talking about?

Speaker 3 But, you know, 42 years in,

Speaker 3 obviously you have to to make these changes. And growing up in a, you know, around tennis and growing up around sports, it's not that difficult for me to be rigid and disciplined.

Speaker 3 I barely drink. I haven't had a drink in three months.

Speaker 3 I'll have a half a glass of champagne and that's it occasionally. But other than that, you still playing tennis? I still do play tennis.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I love playing tennis and I love sports and I love being being engaged and I work out.

Speaker 3 They have me chained to a Peloton most of the time when I'm not doing podcasts or playing box shows.

Speaker 3 And so I do work out a lot.

Speaker 3 But it is true about the protein shakes and we have fortunate to have

Speaker 3 you know, our great chef Simon who travels with us and hands us all kinds of

Speaker 3 healthy and,

Speaker 3 you know, it's healthy drinks and it's

Speaker 3 good. Listen, we've we've lived it uh

Speaker 3 lots of crazy fun. Uh, I mean, also we started, you know, James and I met when uh I was 17, he was 18.
We started Metallica.

Speaker 3 We put our first record out when we were when I was 19 and we were touring the world

Speaker 3 19 and 20. So we started early.
It's just so amazing and and you know, you gotta, you gotta,

Speaker 3 we got a lot of that fun stuff out of the way. Uh, and I can access a good part of those memories when I want to.

Speaker 3 Some of them live really far back there behind doors that are hard to open and probably shouldn't be opened.

Speaker 3 But nowadays,

Speaker 3 you know, I'm knocking on the door of 60 here later this year and the only way to play shows like we just did out at MetLife Stadium here is to be in the best shape you can be. So,

Speaker 3 you know, all kidding aside and clichés, yes, it is obviously pretty different than it was 20, 30 years ago.

Speaker 3 And thankfully so, because the victory now is the perseverance and being able to still do it. And that's kind of what motivates us.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I bet it does. And I bet you can't imagine.

Speaker 1 I bet you're speaking about your younger selves.

Speaker 1 I bet your 17-year-old self, when you met James Hetfield and you guys formed Metallica, couldn't imagine that all these years later, you guys would still be fucking rocking out and going and playing stadiums around the world.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's pretty crazy. We just, we've been playing.

Speaker 3 So I looked into it the other day. So we've played out at, it used to be called Giant Stadium.
Now you have to say Met Live so you don't, because you get into a whole divisive conversation

Speaker 1 between the Giants and the Jets.

Speaker 3 You don't want to do that around here. But we played,

Speaker 3 I just looked it up. We've played Giant Stadium nine times.
And

Speaker 3 we've had obviously a relationship with a greater New York tri-state area. whatever you want to call it for four plus decades.

Speaker 3 The two shows we just played this weekend were the two biggest shows we've ever played in New York City.

Speaker 1 So that's good.

Speaker 3 That's amazing. So that's not a that's not a, hey, look how great Big Metallica is or whatever.
That's that's about the music scene. That's about post-COVID people want to come out and live again.

Speaker 3 That's about hard rock still.

Speaker 2 But they're not coming out for everybody. You know, you deserve some credit for the longevity and the relevance and the quality of the music and your relationship with your fans and all of that stuff.

Speaker 2 your mental health, right? Because if you guys were a disaster, people would probably get turned off by you if there was a bunch of infighting and all that garbage.

Speaker 1 So, you've kept it all together. Thank you.

Speaker 3 I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 I think a significant part of what drives us to this day is that we're kind of led by the mantra of our best days are still ahead of us. And our favorite record is the one we haven't made yet.

Speaker 3 And that we actually may turn professional at some point and do this for real one day.

Speaker 3 And we will be right back

Speaker 1 in today's world of processed foods, screens, and whatever's floating around in the air. Feeling run down has basically become a lifestyle, but the body wasn't built to run on fumes.

Speaker 1 Colostrum is nature's original superfood, packed with over 400 bioactive nutrients that help fortify gut health, support immune health, promote a healthy metabolism, and fuel fitness performance.

Speaker 1 Armra colostrum is a clean, potent, bioactive food that's sustainably sourced. Think of it like daily fine-tuning for your body with just four daily scoops.

Speaker 1 In a three-month research survey with 60 participants, taking Armra colostrum daily was shown to help ease occasional bloating and support skin, hair, lean muscle, and strength from the inside out.

Speaker 1 Keeping up with the chaos of modern life is a lot more fun when there's actually energy to enjoy it. And right now, there's a a special offer for Smartlist listeners.

Speaker 1 Get 30% off your first subscription order when visiting armra.com slash smartlist or entering Smartlist at checkout. That's A-R-M-R-A.com slash Smartless.

Speaker 1 This podcast is brought to you by FedEx, the new power move.

Speaker 1 You know those people who still rely on old school business power moves, like showing up late to meetings because they're so busy or wearing a big shiny gold watch and making sure everyone notices it.

Speaker 1 Maybe it's the person who takes long dramatic pauses every time they speak because they're so profound.

Speaker 1 But let's be honest, all those old school power moves won't keep your supply chain moving smoothly. The real power move?

Speaker 1 Using data insights from FedEx to move your business forward, like using predictive analytics to manage your entire supply chain or calling out logistics problems before they arise and sitting at the forefront of business intelligence.

Speaker 1 That's how FedEx helps modern businesses stay ahead, anticipating change, rerouting around challenges, and keeping everything running smoothly. FedEx, the new power move.

Speaker 1 Visit fedEx.com slash newpower move to learn more.

Speaker 1 Having the United Airlines app is like having your own pocket-sized personal assistant at the airport.

Speaker 1 Get real-time flight updates like your gate number and a live countdown to boarding, even if your home screen's locked.

Speaker 1 Stride over to your gate with gazelle-like grace, thanks to door-to-gate directions from your personalized airport map. Once you fly with the United app, you'll never fly without it.

Speaker 1 Unless you don't want to save about 30 minutes at the airport, get it before your next trip at united.com slash app.

Speaker 1 And now back to the show.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 I want to kind of get into a little bit about you and James.

Speaker 1 Because you guys met at such a young age, talking about like the, you know,

Speaker 1 and that you seem to still have, by virtue of what you just said, you still have this like drive to like create something new and you're still excited about that creative process.

Speaker 1 What was it about that when you guys met at such a young age with coming from such different backgrounds? Yeah. What was the thing that clicked for you guys creatively?

Speaker 1 Yeah, because before you answer that, just to piggyback on that, I think it's fascinating what Will just said that at your at such a young age, you found somebody else that wanted to take it as serious as you did.

Speaker 1 What are the odds of that?

Speaker 3 yeah you know it's uh and every time people ask me that question i always have to throw in that the energy of the universe is a big part of it because you know like you're saying the two of us finding each other you know what we had in common there were so many things we didn't have in common but what we had in common was that we were both sort of loners we were both we weren't like outcasts in that sense or like the awkward weirdos, but we were loners and we were misfits and we were disenfranchised in a way that we just lived in our own worlds and listened to our old music.

Speaker 3 When I ended up at Corona Del Mar High School in 1980,

Speaker 3 trust me, there was nobody else wearing an Iron Maiden t-shirt.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 it was a pretty isolated existence. And so what James and I ended up doing was we were the brothers that neither of us never had.

Speaker 3 And we started writing songs together and and just creating the world for ourselves that we wanted to inhabit and at that time

Speaker 3 there was never anything about uh you know goals or success or we're gonna be you know famous or this is gonna translate into something you know with a mainstream success or there was none of that because At that time, the music that we were into and the things that were turning us off were so edgy and so uh isolated away from from mainstream acceptance that that was never that was never even the cards but you know what's interesting about that lars is that you guys were making like you know whatever you want to call it hard rock heavy metal you guys were making like music that was really driving and and it was not necessarily mainstream and then i think about i think i have probably what three or four records in when by the time you guys made metallica which is a lot of people called the the black album by the time you guys made metallica you really broke through to the mainstream.

Speaker 1 You had a few hits that were kind of like leading up to it, but then the black album really broke through.

Speaker 1 And in a lot of ways, I've thought, I thought before, I was like, is it that everybody else's tastes changed or that you guys kind of, you guys prepared everybody to listen to this music?

Speaker 1 Like you guys kind of got them into this hard rock in a way. I don't know.

Speaker 3 I think

Speaker 3 you have to put the record companies in there when you answer that question. So the record companies at that time were the gateway to everything.

Speaker 3 So the record companies, it's like the analogy I've said many times is that you walk into a restaurant and

Speaker 3 you can have anything that you want in the restaurant as long as it's on the menu. You know, and so the record companies were the purveyors of the menu.

Speaker 3 And so the record companies were only signing things that they thought would appeal to a large group of people.

Speaker 3 But hovering over in the left field were all these people like ourselves that wanted something that was more substantial, a little harder, a little edgier, something that they could relate to lyrically that wasn't about this make-believe world and this fantasy that rock stars were supposedly inhabiting at the time, but

Speaker 3 people like themselves with real-world problems and

Speaker 3 anxieties and issues just like ourselves.

Speaker 3 And so slowly over the 80s, as more and more kids understood that there were music out there for them, like the type of stuff that we were doing, they started moving further and further left.

Speaker 3 They started moving the mainstream further and further out to where, you know, bands like ourselves were hovering.

Speaker 3 And there was that seismic shift then towards the late 80s when all of a sudden the mainstream realized that there were other options that they had been fed over the years.

Speaker 1 Right. And you guys were, like you said lyrically, Sean, that way, and I don't know, Lars, if you heard me before you came on, I quoted your song one, and I said,

Speaker 1 you know, take my breath as I pray for death, or God, please take my breath. I did.
Yeah. And like that.

Speaker 3 I didn't write that one down as a potential, but no, I know.

Speaker 1 I have the other ones. Well, you already have that song.

Speaker 1 That song already exists as a hit. It's still hard to beat bread balls.

Speaker 1 But that song is like a, I mean, you think about it, you guys, that I mean, that song specifically is about a guy who's basically in a coma, right? He's kind of paralyzed.

Speaker 1 Or what's the deal with that? Like, nobody was writing songs about that in Henry.

Speaker 3 We spent a lot of time. We spent a lot of time

Speaker 3 sort of wondering what, you know, different mental states.

Speaker 3 And so at one point we were talking about what would it be like if you couldn't speak, see, or hear, and you had no arms or legs, but you were just a living conscious. What would that feel like?

Speaker 3 What would go on inside you if you were just a living conscious? And then we found out about Dalton Trumbo's story of Johnny Got His Gun.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 we wrote a song around that and then realized that there was actually a movie with Jason Robarts that came out

Speaker 3 I think what late 60s early 70s and that became our first video

Speaker 3 and that was a four albums in and at that time we had never made any videos for MTV and we were sort of the anti-MTV band but we finally felt that we had an idea that was worthy of making a video and do you guys remember something called dial mtv back in the day and um so the first day that that video premiered and was eligible for

Speaker 3 dial MTV, it premiered at number one and it stayed at number one for like the next couple of months.

Speaker 3 And that was a significant, I think, a wake-up call to a lot of the industry, them realizing that there was something else out there than,

Speaker 3 I don't want to mention names, but that

Speaker 3 was out there at that time that was generating a lot of the attention.

Speaker 2 Tell me more than Frankie goes to Hollywood with the lasers.

Speaker 1 Way to go, JB. I mean, the world is dancing all around it.

Speaker 2 Do you miss videos at all?

Speaker 3 We still make videos. We made for our new album.
Now, it's actually the opposite.

Speaker 3 For the last two records we put out, we've made videos for every song on them because if you now, you know, so many people hear albums on YouTube, so you want to have a video that you've made yourself for every song on your album rather than having somebody else make them.

Speaker 3 So we've made videos for every song on the last album that just came out a few months ago.

Speaker 1 I remember a long long time ago i don't remember the year but just guess this when your dad left this is when your dad this is the year your dad left when my dad left yeah it was 1975.

Speaker 1 no um

Speaker 1 do you have a question for my dad

Speaker 1 to drive and just light up the rear pause attraction and go

Speaker 1 no i have a question

Speaker 3 you know just like just like metallica may turn professional one day you guys should do this

Speaker 3 no I remember when hearing about you doing a concert in Antarctica right that's right you were the only band who's played on all seven continents that's just wild yeah and it was it it was sort of by chance it was not something that we set out to do well I don't think one would but yeah no but it's not like you sit there you know and go hey what should we do this year let's play all seven continents we we were playing um in Latin America we were playing in Europe we were playing in North America we We had shows in

Speaker 3 Africa and Asia, and all of a sudden it was like, whoa, there's a thing happening here. And we got an offer from,

Speaker 3 I believe it was Coca-Cola. It was a soft drink in Brazil who said that they were putting together a competition.
And the prize was to travel to Antarctica and

Speaker 3 hang out. And they wanted to know if we would come down and play for this group of soft drinkers.

Speaker 1 Was it cold?

Speaker 3 Well, it was so it was December, obviously, which is their June, which is their high summer.

Speaker 3 And it wasn't as cold and it wasn't as frigid and it wasn't as sort of otherworldly as you would expect it to be.

Speaker 1 How do your hands work?

Speaker 3 But we were down there for

Speaker 3 a couple of four or five days. We stayed on

Speaker 3 an icebreaker and we stayed with all the contest winners and all our crew were all on this icebreaker together, which was super fun.

Speaker 3 And then we played on a Chilean research base and we played in a tent. And do you guys know what silent disco is?

Speaker 3 What do you wear? Where do we use it? So every, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 Everybody had headphones on.

Speaker 3 So I think there were like maybe 300 people there in total. Everybody had headphones on so they could hear the music.
And so it didn't disturb the environment.

Speaker 1 It didn't disturb the penguins.

Speaker 3 It didn't disturb the

Speaker 3 other endangered species of animals that were there. And so we left no, there was not even

Speaker 3 noise pollution.

Speaker 1 It's weird.

Speaker 1 Last summer I was in New York and I saw these kids like late night, and they're all on the steps of this church at like midnight on a Friday night, and everybody's moving, and nobody's saying a word.

Speaker 1 And I realize they've all got headphones on. They're all jamming and they're all dancing to the song, but you can't hear it.
It's fucking weird.

Speaker 3 So the only thing you can hear in the room are the lead vocals and the drums.

Speaker 3 Other than that, all the amplified instruments are going through the headphones. So

Speaker 3 it was definitely a mind fuck to be down there, a lot of fun. And to answer your question, it wasn't as crazy cold or as

Speaker 3 fucked up as you would imagine it to be.

Speaker 3 But it was cool.

Speaker 2 I want to go back to James just for one second. Just talk about collaboration and sort of sharing power and creativity.
And,

Speaker 2 you know, not just with him, but with the rest of the band mates. I mean, you guys have been together and so successful and so harmonious, no pun intended, for so long.

Speaker 2 Is there a secret sauce to that?

Speaker 2 You know, I'm sure there's some good leadership involved.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I would say the probably the word compromise. Sure.
You gotta learn to compromise. You gotta learn to know when to lead, and you gotta learn when to step back.

Speaker 3 James and I have been obviously in the band since the beginning, and we

Speaker 3 steer most of the creative conversations and we take turns steering.

Speaker 3 And I think compromise

Speaker 3 is the key thing. And

Speaker 3 if you want to be in a band in your 50s and 60s and really want to be in a band, you've got to learn to sort of

Speaker 3 work with the environment of

Speaker 3 sort of how to

Speaker 3 deal with everybody's personal needs.

Speaker 3 A reason that there is millions of bands of people in their teens and 20s, and fewer bands of people in their 50s and 60s, as you know, when people get older, they just don't want to deal with other people's shit.

Speaker 3 And you don't want to compromise, and you don't want to, hey, I've got, you know, my son's graduation is the week of Lollapalooza. Oh, well, I guess we can't play Lollapalooza or whatever.

Speaker 3 So there's a lot of those types of conversations that take place. And we have a thing in our band where

Speaker 3 everybody gets a chance to, you know, black dates out

Speaker 3 and put, you know, X's in a calendar and that can't be challenged. We're very supportive of each other's personal space.
And

Speaker 3 we put more resources and time into

Speaker 3 sort of the whole thing functioning as a band than we ever have before.

Speaker 3 I'm not going to bullshit you. I mean, that doesn't get any easier as you get older.
Now,

Speaker 3 most of the kids are grown up and, you know, off to college or in their 20s. So there's less concerns about getting home.
But we, you know, we,

Speaker 3 I mean, 10 years ago, we would tour in two-week increments. We would go on the road for two weeks, go home for two weeks, you know, go on the road for two weeks, go home for two weeks.

Speaker 3 So we wouldn't miss, you know, being with our kids and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 I was going to ask you about that, about family. I mean, you guys must have

Speaker 3 had some some very um uh supportive uh and flexible uh families um uh throughout all yeah but we've also steered it in the direction of of trying to keep all that uh

Speaker 3 you know uh as together as possible it i'm sure it's the same i'm sure it's the same with you guys but uh

Speaker 3 You know, in our world, it takes a few years before you realize that you actually have a say in some of this.

Speaker 3 And so when you start out, you just get handed a schedule here it's like and when you're 22 years old hey i just want to play as many gigs as possible and travel as much and be as drunk as possible and get into all kinds of crazy shenanigans but that but then you realize later hang on a second i can actually say i only want to be on the road for three months and then i want to spend three months at home or you know so you know, as you go along and become more successful, you realize that you have a say in this stuff.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 1 we're lucky because we started doing, certainly we started doing this thing in our 50s and as we've done it and we're we've we've talked about maybe uh you know we went on we did a short tour a couple years ago and we're talking about doing another one but everything that we do we always do with the understanding that like everybody's got stuff and if you if somebody's got stuff we never challenge it in that same way either because we know what life's like and it's kids and it's thing and it's sean's been doing his play for six months and like that's important so we've got to honor that and that's that's the thing you got to do i i did i forgot to ask because i've always wanted to know this uh favorite color who came up with no well i was gonna

Speaker 1 lay in on stage i know i know that sean was lading up favorite advertiser on the chin chin menu no no no what was what's your favorite dipping sauce

Speaker 1 no metallica where'd that go sounds like dipping sauce the name yeah man uh ron quintana

Speaker 3 uh Ron Quintana was a friend of mine at San Francisco.

Speaker 3 Up in San Francisco, there was a little bit of a different music scene than in LA where we started. And we started playing up in San Francisco early.
And

Speaker 3 we had some friends up there and so on. But one of the guys up there, Ron Quintana,

Speaker 3 back then, pre-internet, pre-all this stuff,

Speaker 3 if you wanted information about your favorite bands, you had to

Speaker 3 write to PenPals or, you know, and

Speaker 3 everybody that was really into music at the time made their own fan scenes, as they were called.

Speaker 3 So it was, you you know, eight pages, you know, stapled together down at Kinko's about whatever their favorite, you know, French heavy metal band that five people had heard of was into.

Speaker 3 And so Ron Quintana

Speaker 3 wanted to start a little fan magazine.

Speaker 3 And he asked me one day whether he should call it Metal Mania or whether he should call it Metallica. And I told him to call it Metal Mania.

Speaker 3 I'll hang on to the metallica for you. And

Speaker 3 so

Speaker 3 I've been forgiven that, thankfully, a long time ago, and Ron is still a good friend.

Speaker 1 It's cool. It's a fucking, it's a rad name.
Metallica. It feels good on my tongue.

Speaker 1 So, Lars, this is the screen.

Speaker 1 Hey, Sean. Sorry to subject you to my dumb question here, but I asked, but I agree.
This is my favorite answer. God, again, Lars, we're so scared of it.

Speaker 2 It's a good city to play in.

Speaker 1 Isn't it cold playing without your top on?

Speaker 1 No, pre-winning boxers.

Speaker 2 Why is your hat always backwards?

Speaker 1 What's going on?

Speaker 3 You don't want to see what lives under here, trust me, or what doesn't live under there.

Speaker 1 I want another craziest tour story, like fan weirdness, something that went wrong on stage or during a set.

Speaker 1 Or like, you got to have something that just is like, oh, God, the worst one of all was blank.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 3 we're very lucky. I'll answer both.
We're very lucky in that we have an incredible group of people people that follow us pretty much wherever we go. We actually started selling tickets to them.

Speaker 3 On the last tour, we have something called a black ticket. So you can buy now a ticket that gets you into all the shows on a tour.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 so

Speaker 3 there's

Speaker 3 hundreds, if not thousands of people. You know, we'll go out and play for six, eight weeks in Europe or whatever.
And it's, you know, we see all the same faces down front. No way.
So passionate.

Speaker 3 They come from all over, from Latin America, from Asia, from europe uh so we have the black tickets what's that black ticket running lars yeah

Speaker 3 the black ticket well i know people if you're interested jason and you want to come out it runs uh it's kind of

Speaker 1 a break on it right 800 oh though there's a big break yeah there's a big break that's nothing

Speaker 3 uh it's uh for all those shows we try to be as uh fan-friendly as possible

Speaker 2 how much did he say 800 bucks you can see all the shows and the entire tour

Speaker 3 no they don't get to jump on the plane They don't get to jump on the plane, no.

Speaker 1 I'm going to buy it for all of us. Fuck, Lars.
I'm going to get you one, too. Yeah.
You know what, though? I wish I'd had that. You know, I saw you guys.

Speaker 1 So, Lars, I saw you and Guns N' Roses in September of 1992 at CNI Canadian National Exhibition Stadium in Toronto. It was one of the fucking great concerts I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 It was unfucking real. I was 22.
Sure. And you guys rocked it out.
And I have such a vivid memory of you guys. God, I didn't even watch it.

Speaker 1 It was basically every song you guys played and everybody in unison rocking out I've never seen it I've never seen anything like it before or since in the way the dedication and the sort of the the rhythmic unison very very very passionate the stuff that your eyeballs have seen from your position you get to see the whole band in front of you and then all of the people in the crowd dude i'm telling you it's bizarre it was

Speaker 3 the images you have in your head must be but also now i'll tell you i'll i'll circle back to the question that shawnee was asking earlier and i'll i'll i'll give you a variation on what you just said about seeing all the people in front of me um so uh

Speaker 3 there was uh you talk about malfunctions the first one that always comes to mind because it left a deep deep scar uh you were talking about the black album will and uh so we were we were touring on the black album which was our most successful record up till then and we had been in america for um for maybe a year year and a half we'd done the guns and guns n' Roses tour and we were starting in europe uh

Speaker 3 a few months later and we were playing in london and at that time and obviously still you know london is just press and business and peers and you know publicity and all the all the you know people from all from all the record companies and all the the publicists and everybody from all all of Europe are there.

Speaker 3 It's London. And at that time, it's all

Speaker 3 music magazines and weeklies like the Enemy and Kerrang and blah blah blah and so we're playing in the round which we still do

Speaker 3 and I have a drum kit on either side of the stage and halfway through the set I

Speaker 3 supposed to run over and then

Speaker 3 you know, the other drum kit, I'm supposed to sit on the other drum kit as it lifts out of the stage. And then I play the other half of the show over on the other side.

Speaker 3 Well, you can probably guess what happened. So this is the first big show of this European tour and everybody in our universe is there.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 so the drum kit, you know, is under the stage. I'm on the drum kit and it won't fucking lift up out of the stage.
So my view is not 20,000 crazy people in Wembley Arena or wherever it was.

Speaker 3 It's all the nuts and bolts and the steel and the 12 roadies that are down, you know, under the stage with like crowbars and

Speaker 3 fucking screwdrivers and hammers or whatever they're trying to whatever they're doing to try to get this thing to lift up out of the stage I ended up playing like a song and a half underground under the stage submerged just sitting there and as Metallica was supposed to you know have all these articles written about the triumphant return back to Europe after three years after being the biggest rock band in America like spinal tap the whole story was just about Lars' fucking drums that didn't want to lift out of the stage

Speaker 1 welcome back to Europe Europe. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 That's great. I love that.

Speaker 1 That is so great. And so what did you finish the rest on the other drum set? The rest of the show on the other?

Speaker 3 Eventually, with enough crowbars and determination,

Speaker 3 the drums ended up on stage where they belonged.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's good.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Some people in life are truly one of a kind. Always surprising you, always becoming more themselves over time.
Somehow, they just get more interesting, funnier even, year after year.

Speaker 1 Celebrating them deserves something just as unique as they are. That's where desert-toned diamonds come in.

Speaker 1 Unlike gifts that can feel predictable, desert diamonds reflect the authenticity and individuality of the people you love.

Speaker 1 These aren't one color fits all diamonds. They come in unexpected shades of warm whites, sunlit champagnes, deep ambers, smoky whiskeys, radiant hues and tones you just don't see every day.

Speaker 1 diamonds and natural colors that are truly unlike anything else for the people in your life who are unlike anyone else.

Speaker 1 And there's no better way to show them how lucky you are to know and love them this holiday season than to gift them a desert diamond. And that's why a diamond is forever.

Speaker 1 Visit adiamondisforever.com to learn more.

Speaker 1 Hey, all you underwearers. Are you sick of feeling bounced around? Have you got a bad case of juggler's jock?

Speaker 1 Is your junk drawer on life support?

Speaker 1 Well, Duluth Trading Company is here to get you buck naked. Since 1989, Duluth Trading Company has been engineering unders and workwear to help tackle your toughest tasks.

Speaker 1 Everything from underwater wielding to botanical gardening to excruciating Hollywood lunch meetings. Duluth Trading's buck naked underwear, life-affirming.

Speaker 1 Doesn't matter if you're working overtime, golfing 36 holes, or dragging your co-hosts through a podcast. The no-pinch, no stink, no sweat construction keeps you comfortable.

Speaker 1 And the crotch cradling bullpen pouch, the epitome of support. Duluth keeps me super comfortable.
Every time I'm wearing it, I feel fully supported.

Speaker 1 So if you've got a rear end and you're ready to go buck naked, visit duluthtrading.com or shop in store today.

Speaker 1 Over the years, Blue Apron has shipped more than 530 million meal kits. Meet the new Blue Apron now with no subscription.
We're living in an era of subscription overload.

Speaker 1 For the first time, customers can shop Blue Apron a la carte, ordering what they want, when they want, with no subscription required. I love lasagna!

Speaker 1 Discover new low-prep recipes and pre-made meals that let you get good food on the table in a pinch.

Speaker 1 With more than 100 weekly meals, which is more than double their previous menu, and 75% of them customizable, customers now have more choice than ever.

Speaker 1 And with Dish by Blue Apron, you can get pre-made meals that don't cut corners on quality. And spaghetti!

Speaker 1 Try delicious, nutritious with at least 20 grams of protein and ready in as little as five minutes. Really anything pasta!

Speaker 1 Try the new Blue Apron today and get 40% off your first two orders at blueapron.com with code smartlist40. Terms and conditions apply.
Visit blueapron.com slash terms for more.

Speaker 1 And back to the show.

Speaker 2 Are you excited by anybody right now that you're comfortable saying that has sort of the same kind of early ambition that you guys had to sort of be a little left or a little right of what is being embraced?

Speaker 2 You know, that's sort of real mainstream. You guys are really courageous by kind of pushing the envelope.
Is there somebody in music right now that you're excited about?

Speaker 1 Their courage?

Speaker 3 I mean, there's a lot of great people in garages and in bedrooms all over, obviously, making records on their computers now that don't need to go into

Speaker 3 studios and do the whole

Speaker 3 spiel that everybody had to do 20, 30 years ago. They don't have to rely on record companies.
I think an artist like Billie Eilish, you know, what

Speaker 3 her and her brother did.

Speaker 3 uh a couple years ago with those first records that were made at home on the computers is crazy cool and is so um it sort of epitomizes you know the shift uh of you need a record contract and you need half a million bucks to go into a proper studio and make a record now and and you know they made those first couple of records just uh at home on their computers and that to me

Speaker 3 sort of uh is indicative of the possibilities now that uh the technology uh you know the four of us could make a record

Speaker 3 for the rest of the afternoon and put it out tomorrow.

Speaker 1 Let's do it. Jesus, why are we not doing this?

Speaker 1 Why are we not doing this already? Why are we not doing this right fucking now, Lars? Do we want to break the internet or not? What are we doing?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 2 speak a little bit more about that, about the record industry and stuff. Not to get sort of in the weeds about all that, but obviously there's been a

Speaker 2 big change in the record industry.

Speaker 1 Streaming, et cetera.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and you're not really selling albums as much. It's more kind of a la carte kind of songs that are downloaded on streams, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 And then the bands really make their money, correct me if I'm wrong, from touring now. And so I'm assuming that the bands, if they want to make money, they got to be on the road more.

Speaker 2 Are you guys on the road more?

Speaker 2 You guys don't need to make money, but how do you, how are you feeling about the way the business is sort of balanced right now as far as being out versus selling albums, staying home, and

Speaker 2 the ratio of that?

Speaker 3 Well, obviously, it's changed quite a bit.

Speaker 3 And in your guys' industry, some of the same things that we were dealing with 20 years ago are happening.

Speaker 3 You know, I mean, big picture, and I know this may sound like a little bit of a cop-out.

Speaker 3 I'm just happy that fucking anybody cares about what we're doing and shows up to see us play and still stream or buy or... steal our records or whatever.

Speaker 3 The engagement itself, I think, is the triumph and the victory. Obviously, it's way, way harder for a lot of the younger bands nowadays because

Speaker 3 they don't get the support of the record companies for basic things,

Speaker 3 just like

Speaker 3 gear

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 tour support. So there is

Speaker 3 very much of a different thing.

Speaker 3 I just, you know, talent,

Speaker 3 good songwriting eventually will find a home with a larger group of people.

Speaker 3 And whether you do it from your bedroom or through a record company or whatever,

Speaker 3 you know, I believe that everybody will be heard eventually if they're talented. But it is tough.

Speaker 3 It's tough for a lot of the younger bands out there and for a lot of the

Speaker 3 the bands that, you know, 20 years ago could make a living playing clubs or theaters are having a harder time now because they don't sell as many records, and you really have to be out there and pushing it.

Speaker 1 Do you feel like when you go and you make a record, like your new record, 72 seasons that you guys made this, that came out this year, and that you're touring, I think you're touring this year on, right?

Speaker 1 This is what the on the new record. Yep.
When you make that new record, when you guys have conversations about it coming out, like, are you guys like, or I don't know, the record company or whoever,

Speaker 1 it's such a different approach because you're not going to the record stores. It's not sending out vinyl or it's not sending out C Ds or it's not sending out, it's like

Speaker 1 load up the streamer or

Speaker 1 does that play at all into it?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, it's

Speaker 3 the key thing, you know, as an artist,

Speaker 3 I think when you write songs, and it's the same with you guys,

Speaker 3 you want to start a conversation. You want people to engage.
You want people to hear your music, how they hear it, I guess

Speaker 3 eventually becomes second tier.

Speaker 3 And you understand that it's it's a changed it's a changed model than it was 25 years ago 50 years ago or whatever

Speaker 3 I think that you know in our band we just love writing songs and we love making records we love the creative process and that's there are a lot of bands that have been around as long as we have that simply don't want to make records anymore because it either doesn't work for them or the business model of it doesn't work for them.

Speaker 3 And I can't speak for everybody else. We love writing songs.
Being creative is a significant part of who we are. And it gives us a chance to,

Speaker 3 you know, what makes us stay functioning is that we go from writing to recording to playing gigs to writing to home.

Speaker 3 We're always changing up what we're doing so we never get stuck in the sameness over and over. And so we're not always on the road.
We're not always in the studio.

Speaker 3 We're not always taking our kids to school or whatever.

Speaker 1 We're not always doing the same thing.

Speaker 3 So you have to kind of keep just breaking it up and changing what you're doing. And so obviously, I understand that we're exceptionally fortunate,

Speaker 3 but our success gives us the opportunity to sort of do all that.

Speaker 3 And but we would be, if somebody said, you can't write or make records anymore, we would probably stop what we're doing because it's such an essential part of just our existence

Speaker 1 as people. Sure.
And I love that, by the way, I love that you didn't say exceptionally lucky. You said Fortune, because you're not lucky.
It wasn't luck that you guys got here.

Speaker 1 You guys are talented, but you do recognize the fortune.

Speaker 2 We're at Minute 1590, as it said, storyteller.

Speaker 1 I know, it's true. It's true.
He has not said storyteller.

Speaker 1 Wait, wait, Lars.

Speaker 3 I have a list of words here not to say on podcast.

Speaker 1 That's number seven. Lars, if we, if we, if we, uh, if we got a hold of, if we got a hold of your personal music device, whatever it is that

Speaker 1 you use when you're working out when you're cycling or doing whatever, what's on there? What do you listen? What gets you going? What do you like to listen to currently?

Speaker 1 I don't mean of all time necessarily.

Speaker 3 It's very varied, obviously.

Speaker 3 I'll still...

Speaker 3 circle those deep purple records from 50 years ago that I

Speaker 3 is there is there a genre you're not a fan of no I mean I listen to everything from rock music to jazz music to reggae to pop uh

Speaker 3 to uh hip-hop uh r b i mean it i i think the easiest way to answer this and forgive me again if this sounds like a cop-op but there really are only two kinds of music uh there's great music and less great music and so in hard rock there's there's great music and less great music just like in pop or in reggae uh

Speaker 3 You know, a couple days ago, driving back from rehearsals out at MetLife Stadium,

Speaker 3 we were listening to Bronski Beat.

Speaker 1 Remember that? Yes,

Speaker 1 Run Away, Turn Away, Run Away. Yeah, we were listening to

Speaker 3 it. I was pumping some Bronsky Beat and some

Speaker 1 Jimmy Somerville.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Jimmy Somerville. Love it.
Beat Boy, Beat Boy. Hit that perfect beat boy.

Speaker 1 No way.

Speaker 3 We were listening to the Happy Mondays. We were listening to Stone Rose.

Speaker 1 Tristan My Mellon, man, you know, you speak so. Oh, Stone Rose are fools.
Go.

Speaker 1 I love Stone Rose.

Speaker 1 And I listen to that.

Speaker 3 So it's a lot of varied, a lot of varied stuff all the time.

Speaker 1 What about listening to a full album?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 like, since

Speaker 2 people don't really buy albums as much as they used to. They're sort of pulling down kind of a single song here, a la carte there.
Whereas like

Speaker 2 Pink Floyd the Wall comes to mind, where there's a whole through line, a thread, a continuity, a thematic that goes throughout the whole album because the bands knew that people would potentially buy an entire album instead of saying go ahead and listen to it.

Speaker 1 Are you saying that they're telling a story?

Speaker 2 I'm all around it, but I'm not going to say it.

Speaker 1 You're so close to it, dude. But like,

Speaker 2 do you think that that will ever kind of happen again where there's like a like a rock opera that's kind of like Tommy?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's something that's beginning to end.

Speaker 3 Not in the classic sense that you're saying it. I mean, there's a great band who we've had play with us the last couple of years called Greta Van Fleet.

Speaker 1 Oh, I love that. Those guys are great.
And

Speaker 3 they still write longer songs. They appeal to a very young audience.
And they still do crazy long guitar solos. They're really, really great songwriters.

Speaker 1 They're very dramatic. They're very theatrical, those kids, man.
Yes. They're cool.
Super cool.

Speaker 3 We've had them with us

Speaker 3 playing a special guest for the last couple of years to a lot of shows.

Speaker 3 But I don't think that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but let me tell tell you something. To

Speaker 1 Jason's idea is good because here's the thing.

Speaker 1 Hamilton, the musical Hamilton, it's rapping. Everybody raps.
It's like, what? A musical that raps. People would be floored if you guys used your music or created new music with your sound.

Speaker 1 It's never been done. I'm hard working.
We would do a musical.

Speaker 2 What about a musical, Lars?

Speaker 1 That's what I'm saying. Hardware.
Come on.

Speaker 2 Let's make some news, right?

Speaker 1 I love the reaction on his face. No, I can see his face.
That's a yes.

Speaker 1 Guys, we've got it.

Speaker 1 There it is. Hey, listen.

Speaker 1 Lars, Lars, let me ask you this before we get to the point. Is that what we're looking for here an exclusive? Is that what we're doing? No, we're not getting into musicals.

Speaker 1 Sean, for once, just one guest. Just leave him out of musicals.
Yeah, stop getting everyone on the board.

Speaker 1 Nobody wants to fucking, nobody likes musicals. Lars doesn't like cats.
I know.

Speaker 3 He doesn't want to.

Speaker 3 Listen, I saw Hamilton. I saw OG Hamilton,

Speaker 3 OG, OG, and was as blown away as everybody else and subsequently saw it, what, four times,

Speaker 3 and think that Lynn is amazing, most talented

Speaker 3 on this planet.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's hands down.

Speaker 3 I went back later that night and just like Googled then YouTubed as much as I could. That clip where he's in the White House, like five, six years earlier.
Did you guys see that clip?

Speaker 3 So Hamilton came out in what, 16?

Speaker 3 This is what, 09. He was in the White House and was telling Obama and the rest of the gathered there that he was working on a musical about Alexander Hamilton.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 3 everybody was just laughing. Yeah, and then he did like

Speaker 3 the first five minutes of it afterwards that he got like standing ovation.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's a genius. Lynn's a genius.

Speaker 3 Fucking have you never seen that clip, Jason?

Speaker 1 No, I'm going to check it out. Oh, it's wild.
You got to check it out. It's just a piano and him rapping.
Oh, it's great. Or something like that.

Speaker 3 Really fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's a megaton. He's a megaton.
And guess what?

Speaker 3 I'll tell you what. Let's meet.
I'll meet you halfway.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 My sense is it's going well. So

Speaker 3 when Metallica has some musical news,

Speaker 3 you guys can break it.

Speaker 1 Yes. Lovely.

Speaker 1 I love this.

Speaker 1 I love that.

Speaker 3 If you'll have me back, even just for five minutes, and we can make it an exclusive. You're the fourth host.
You're the fourth host.

Speaker 1 Lars, I want you when we go on tour, if we go on tour, we're talking about going overseas.

Speaker 2 If we go on tour again, we'd love for Metallica to open for us.

Speaker 1 Well, to open with us simultaneously.

Speaker 1 You open for a lead into it, man.

Speaker 1 We were going into.

Speaker 3 I read about William Freakin also this morning or yesterday. And

Speaker 3 I understand the no mentioning of the great films that he made and

Speaker 3 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I did read about the.

Speaker 1 So people know it's because of the strike. We can't mention them.
Just so Tracy knows. Yeah.
No, I'm right there with you. Lars, listen, he was another genius, too.

Speaker 1 And I, and I, and I, again, I don't want to embarrass you, but you're a genius, man. You've made so much great music for so long.
Yeah. Such a fan of the music.
You're a great man.

Speaker 1 You're such a great dude.

Speaker 2 That's the best. You're so patient.

Speaker 1 You don't have to have to be here. You're such a great vibe, and you're such a great dude.
And it was such a pleasure meeting you all those years ago and having you on here.

Speaker 3 We'll be right back and talking to you, man.

Speaker 1 And just

Speaker 1 continued success, dude.

Speaker 3 Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 Get back out here. We'll go hang out with Coop.

Speaker 1 Come on. Let's do it.
He's going to cover himself.

Speaker 3 This thing is, I'm sitting up in my publicist's office here

Speaker 3 down in Tribeca, and I walked in and was handed this piece of paper. I go, wow, this is high-tech.

Speaker 1 Here we go.

Speaker 1 No limits here.

Speaker 1 We are top of the heap over here at Smartless.

Speaker 2 Thank you for saying yes.

Speaker 1 Thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 Thanks for being your pick, Will. I enjoyed the time a couple of years ago in France, and it's great to see you guys.

Speaker 1 Sean, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too.
And good luck on the rest of the tour.

Speaker 3 When we have musical news, we'll break it with you guys.

Speaker 1 I love it. It would be an honor.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Lars. Thanks, Lars.
Much love. See you later.
Okay,

Speaker 1 bye.

Speaker 1 Bye-bye.

Speaker 1 Wow. That was a great cat, Willie.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know what's interesting about him is,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 I wasn't one to run out and buy Metallica. Obviously, I like their songs and know a lot of them and was a fan of them growing up, too.

Speaker 1 But it's rare that the drummer is as famous as

Speaker 2 who else? Phil Collins?

Speaker 1 Phil Collins. But he was also guaranteed.
Yeah, but he, but Lars and

Speaker 1 James started the band, right? So they formed it together. So you had guitarist and drummer for

Speaker 1 the band. Yeah.
I guess, I guess, boy, where

Speaker 2 might be the first connection there? Yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 which one would Andrew Ridgely be?

Speaker 1 Which one would be Lars?

Speaker 2 Okay. Let's get Lars back on the phone.

Speaker 1 And by the way, and by the way, and let's get James on here real quick, too. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 James, that makes you George.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I guess.

Speaker 2 No, he was very, very cool.

Speaker 1 He's so cool. He's such a cool dude, and he does have such a great vibe.
And he's so,

Speaker 1 I don't know. He's, I just love the way you can really access everything when you ask him a question, and he can really access it.
And he's so sort of concise, and he's so quick.

Speaker 1 Yes, I like that he's open to sharing anything. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2 Because that's the key to keeping a little group together. It's just don't be a dick.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
100%.

Speaker 2 You see me looking at you, Sean and Will.

Speaker 1 You see me looking in I'm not looking in the mirror. No, I'm not looking at my square.
I'm looking at your square, laptop.

Speaker 1 But let's go see. I can't believe we missed them at

Speaker 1 Giant or MetLife, whatever.

Speaker 1 I think it's a great idea if they open for us. But we

Speaker 1 wait till they get a little closer.

Speaker 2 It's so great that he was offering. I'm pretty sure he was offering to open for us.

Speaker 2 Yeah, let's wait till they get a little closer to Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 I know, but they are because they're on tour for their record 72 season. It would be great to go.
We should definitely go see them in Los Angeles. That'd be so fun.
That'd be fun. I would love to.

Speaker 2 I'm going to go see Tay Tay tomorrow night.

Speaker 1 Are you?

Speaker 2 I think that's what, isn't that what kids are calling it?

Speaker 1 Tay Tay Swifty?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Are you going to Tay Tay tomorrow? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. You are? Yeah.
Are you taking Franny and Mape?

Speaker 2 No, no, just solo.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Just a one single. It's going to be in the parking lot with a little sign.

Speaker 1 Single.

Speaker 1 Single. Single.

Speaker 2 Anyone got a single?

Speaker 3 No, it will be a full family.

Speaker 2 Thanks.

Speaker 1 Amanda, too. Alone.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she's part of the family, and we're all going to go. And

Speaker 1 self-drive or Uber?

Speaker 2 No, it'll be self-driving. You know, I don't drink anymore.
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 No, I know, but I know how, you know, we get into the state. Where is that, SoFi?

Speaker 2 It's at SoFi, yeah. And apparently, you've got to pick an album to sort of dress as.

Speaker 2 And I don't know. Name one of her albums.

Speaker 1 One. Name one of her albums.

Speaker 2 I couldn't. I'm going to go ahead and see what I'm wearing right now.

Speaker 2 That's what it'll be tomorrow night.

Speaker 1 You know what I refer to that? Is the

Speaker 1 fuck it? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I got a lot of fuckets.

Speaker 2 Wasn't it George Costanza that said, if you wear sweats,

Speaker 2 you're telling the world you've given up? I mean, it's a declaration.

Speaker 1 I guess so. There it is.

Speaker 2 Sean has given up.

Speaker 1 Look,

Speaker 1 I have something to say. If Metallica can't open for us at every single leg of our tour, if we tour again, they should just at least at one of them or two of them just do a a fly

Speaker 1 by

Speaker 1 Smart

Speaker 1 Smart

Speaker 1 Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarv, and Bennett Barbico.

Speaker 1 Smart Less.

Speaker 4 There are millions of podcasts out there, and you've chosen this one. Whether you're a regular or just here on a whim, it's what you have chosen to listen to.

Speaker 4 With Yoto, your kids can have the same choice. Yoto is a screen-free, ad-free audio player.
With hundreds of Yoto cards, there are stories, music, and podcasts like this one, but for kids.

Speaker 4 Just slot a card into the player and let the adventure begin. Check out Yotoplay.com.

Speaker 1 You know those moments when you're trying to work through a complex problem and you can't stop until you found the answer?

Speaker 1 That's where Claude comes in, the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough.

Speaker 1 Whether you're planning something big, researching a topic you're curious about, or just trying to work through a problem, Claude matches your level of curiosity.

Speaker 1 Try Claude for free at claude.ai/slash smartless and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner.