"Lars Ulrich"

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Subject to change. What did the ocean say to the beach? Nothing.
It just waved. Nice.
Okay. That's pretty good, yeah.
You want one last one? Yeah. Yep, please.
Where do you learn to make a banana split? I don't know. Where? Sunday school.
Oh, man, that's good. Welcome to Smartless, everybody.
Welcome, everyone. Smart.
Less.

Smart.

Less.

Smart.

Less.

I've been watching all these interviews with William Friedkin,

who directed movies that we can't name, but amazing interviews.

Are we celebrating a life lost?

Yeah, we are. And he was a tremendous, tremendous artist.
And just one of the funny things, I just read this thing, talking about going to this, speaking to these students. And this student said, I'm about to shoot my student film.
What format should I shoot it in? And he said, who gives a shit? Is that true? William said that? True story. Oh, my gosh.
He directed a scary movie that I can't watch today because it's so scary. Hey, Sean, I know we talk about this a lot, but it's enough already.
From me? From my mouth? What? No. You being in New York.
I know. It's so dumb.
Can we have a date? Now, I'm sure this is going to air past the date because I feel like we're close. How much longer? Three weeks.
21 shows. Sean, I got sent a picture yesterday from somebody whom you do not know, my friend Elizabeth, and she sent me a photo.
Her partner sent a photo of her. She didn't want to leave her seat, and he took a photo because she was at your show in the balcony,

and she was so moved.

She sat there for like 20 minutes, like just reacting to it.

She was so moved by your performance.

That's so nice.

A true story.

Yeah, it was two nights ago.

I mean, that's so sweet.

Please tell her thank you.

And wait, two things, though.

One is Scotty, being stuck here, Jay, to your point, treated me to a helicopter ride the other day. Will? Yeah.
Hopefully he wasn't flying. No, he was not flying.
Okay. And we flew so close to, because we haven't left or done anything in six months.
Literally apartment theater, apartment theater. And so we flew around and the helicopter came really close to the Statue of Liberty.
close it was unbelievable i'd never seen it that close so scotty just said hey let's go take a helicopter trip around the city yeah because we haven't done anything just to do something just take a look sounds great yeah have you ever done that no i would love to now i'm i'm a little um i'm not a huge fan of helicopters i love their mobility their flexibility and all that stuff, you know there's zero glide potential yeah it's the glide it's the glide what do you mean what do you mean glide well i mean it's sort of a it's a it's it's it's fool's comfort anyway to think you know the plane has glide potential if the uh if the engines go to shit well the guy told me that the guy's like because i'm like what's the plan he's like oh no if the that's how you started the trip we were in the air and i talked about it i shouldn't have because it freaked me out. The guy's like, because I'm like, what's the plan? He's like, oh no, if the engine...
That's how you started the trip? We were in the air and I talked about it. I shouldn't have because it freaked me out.
He goes, look, if the engines fail and they won't, he goes, you just glide down to the bottom. It's got like that potential.
So is he lying? The helicopter does. The helicopter? What kind of helicopter were we on? Did it have a bunch of wings on it? Or a bunch of birds attached to it? Have you ever seen a sack of potatoes dropped? It just falls, man.
Yeah, I mean, there's some physics. Yeah, so anyway, I mean, listen, I don't think that's how any of us, none of our listeners, none of us, that's not how we're going.
No. I know what you mean.
When the thing took off and, you know, it wobbles when it takes off right, left to right. Yeah.
And it's like, it's pretty scary. You're going to choke on a wonton one day and that's how you're going to go.
It's like, Scotty, I can get one more in here. Give it to me.
And that'll be it for you. Just the word wonton.
It's so funny. Wonton, are you kidding? That sounds pretty, he's going to choke on the fucking heel of a loaf of wonder.
He's like, well, it's still bread. I'll just have the heel.
Just okay. Load it up.
You ever make bread balls where you take the center of the white bread and you just ball it up with something? Look at it. It's a bread meatball.
I collect heels. I just make heels.
All my sandwiches are from heels of loaves of bread. We ate tortillas, just a tortilla.

No shit.

Well, it's 9 a.m., so that makes sense.

Hey, listen to you.

You never make bread balls.

Hey, you know, I love music.

I love music. Uh-oh.
and I love all kinds of different music man I always have I like to think that I have an eclectic taste because sometimes I think well I'm just kind of a dinosaur sort of 90s indie rock guy but I'm not I'm kind of all over the place you're the one who told Paul Simon to go down to Africa and do Graceland, right? You're like, hey, have you explored these sounds?

But I've been into, you know, we've had a lot of great musicians on the show.

And I've been a friend of them all, whether it's from sort of New Wave or, you know, whatever, to classic rock and roll to, you know, I don't know, just everything.

Think about it.

And today's guest is such a representative of an entire genre of music that they kind of inspired so many musicians, and not just of their genre, but of all genres. It's so rare when somebody from one genre is able to inspire people across all types of music.
You got Madonna. Unbelievable.
This person is... person is, he's, he's, he's, he joined us from overseas,

born in Denmark and then moved to the U.S.

and formed a band that has sold nearly 120 million albums worldwide.

That's money.

Generating more than 15 billion streams.

He's from Denmark?

Yeah.

I mean, nine Grammy Awards, two American Music Awards, multiple MTV Movie Video Awards, 2009 induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Just all over the place.
They've done it all. They played with everybody.
This is none other than one of my all-time faves. It's Lars Ulrich of Metallica.
Good Lord. No way.
Lars. And now the high-tech reveal.
See if I can do this. Oh, my God.
Oh, my God. No way.
Hey, though. Also known as, hi, my name is Breadballs.
I like that. Breadballs.
Breadballs. Breadballs.
Breadballs. Oh, my God.
Or otherwise known as Michael Cooper's best friend. How's Cooper? Yes, that's right.
Michael Cooper. He's texting me as we're speaking and he's texting you.
You know, now, Michael Cooper's got one of these ailments that I think affects a lot of people on texting. Tell us who Michael is.
He's a friend of yours. Michael Cooper's a guy I used to work with.
Sure. And now he's working with fancier folks than me but um he's he uses the send button as a period when he texts people that's a yes that's a 23 texts showing up at one time is is a normal five minutes from michael cooper but they're all sent with love i know and kisses i love them and pictures of himself driving.
How many pictures of Michael Cooper do you have of him driving?

Driving, showing off a watch or a new hairstyle or a new set of glasses.

You know, I'm not on, I didn't sign up for the Cooper fan letter.

I love him though.

As long as you have an iPhone and a text message thread with him, you're in that fan club.

I love him. I just want to say one thing that and I'm sure you guys have heard this before, but you don't need guests on your show.
Just the seven minute banter there before the reveal, that's plenty. It's all dumb.
I've taken some potential Metallica titles away from this. I think Bread Balls is the one to beat.
I like Zero Glide Potential a lot. That sounds more like an album title.
That's a great hard rock title. Yeah, I think Zero – that's – It's like – well, they did it before.
It's called Led Zeppelin. Yeah, right.
Zero Glide Potential. Yeah, there's a lot of bad jokes in there that we should shy away from.
And then the last thing I would say also, is it Madonna? I like that one too. She's the merrier of all genres.
Dude, Lars, thank you for doing this, man. Nice to meet you.
It's so great to have you. Right back at you.
And I had the good fortune of hanging out just a couple times with Lars a few years ago through mutual friends. That's right.
And I've always, and of course, I didn't want to want to you know drill you with it at the time and embarrass you i've always been such a fan of metallica and your music and and one of the things that i did not know and i guess a lot of hardcore metallica fans did know this was i didn't know that you actually moved to the states just to play tennis i knew that you were a tennis player and that you were a competitive player, but I didn't know that that was the whole purpose of your move was to play tennis. Is that true? The whole purpose was to, so my father, I grew up in Copenhagen, Denmark, as you guys circled.
And you were born there? Born, yeah. Born and raised in Copenhagen.
And my dad was a professional tennis player. And I come from a family of tennis players.
So his brother was one of the other greats in the country. And at one point, the Davis Cup, the Danish Davis Cup team was my dad, his brother, and the captain was their dad.
So it's a long line of famous tennis greats in Denmark. And I, of course, wanted to follow in their footsteps.

So when I finished school in 1979 in Denmark,

I ended up in Bradenton, Florida,

the first year of Nick Boletari's Tennis Academy.

No way.

And you moved because of tennis?

Is that what you mean?

Yes, absolutely.

Nick Boletari's Tennis Academy,

which at the time, by the way, was revolutionary.

It was like the real place

where a lot of these famous, young, dedicated tennis players went, right? It was like the first of its kind. Am I right, Lars? And it was also a transitional time in tennis where up till the mid-70s to the late 70s, the best tennis players all over the world were the ones that had the most talent.
But as it shifted in the late 70s, the best tennis players ended up becoming the ones that worked the hardest at it and played, you know, six, eight hours a day and doing drills and worked in the weight room and all this type of stuff. There was a seismic shift in the whole setup.
And I went the first year to Nick Boletieri's. And then after that, we moved out to Southern California, ended up in Newport Beach, where I was going to attend Colonel Del Mar High School with my dad's friend, the tennis great from Australia, Roy Emerson, his son, Anthony.
Wow. And so in Denmark, up through those years, in my junior years, I was ranked in the top 10 consistently in the country.
And when I came out to Southern California and went to Colonel Del Mar High School as a junior in 11th grade, I did not, I did not, this is a true story, I did not make the fucking tennis team. I was not one of the seven best players at Colonel Del Mar High School.
Jeez. So the So the whole tennis dream and following in the Ulrich footsteps, that came crashing down, no pun intended, to the zero glide potential there.
But that came crashing down in one afternoon, and then rock and roll was hovering in the trenches and took over. Wow.
But wait, so Lars, you make this, and you sort of, you talk about it very openly. And the fact that, yeah, I knew that you had this, come from this dynasty, this Danish tennis dynastic family.
And then you move to, you go to Nick Boletari, and then you come to Southern California. And like you say, in one afternoon, like all of a sudden, what, you try out, they put out the list for the tennis team, you're not on it, and you're like, well, there goes everything.
Like, how is that? Yeah. I mean, I've heard myself obviously tell that story 9,000 times, so it gets shorter and shorter and becomes more of a soundbite, but it is pretty much what happened.
Music was always hovering, and music was my escape away from the discipline of tennis. And I'd been playing both guitar and drums in Denmark.
And, you know, as you, I was 17 at the time, as you get a little older and you start drinking a few beers and looking at the girls differently and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And things change.
And, but I uh it it pretty much came crashing down uh did you teach yourself to play guitar and drums or were you doing it like through uh in school in denmark in school what language do they speak in denmark they speak danish and do you speak sean can i talk to you for a sec sorry laura just come over here for one So sorry, dude. And do you still speak it? Yes, I speak to you.
I speak to you. I am 100% Danish.
Oh, your mic's going out. I want to be Danish.
You're going over a canyon? I'm still proudly, you know, there's only five million of us, and we keep it loud and proud, and I'm still a Danish citizen, actually, and still travel on my Danish passport. Wow, that's so cool.
Now, so then you learned these two instruments in school. It wasn't a music school, was it? No, no, it was just a Danish public school.
Pick an elective, and, you know, band was one of them, and you gravitated toward those two instruments. Was that that simple? Ish.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I was, you know, my dad, my dad's passion away from tennis was also music. So I grew up in a very, you know, musically rich household.
You know, there was a lot of, you know, all the jazz greats from, you know, Miles Davis to Coltrane to Charlie Parker to Dexter Gordon, all these, you know, and a lot of Hendrix and Doors and Rolling Stones playing out of my dad's music room all the time. So there was a lot of music in the family and in the household.
Was there a particular band or drummer or guitarist that got you to want to jump into those two instruments? Or was it just kind of... When I was...
i started going to concerts in denmark early i was nine years old when i went to see deep purple and uh over the next couple of years uh like 74 75 i saw bands like the sweet and slate and status quo and kiss came to denmark in 76 and then it started grabbing you know going into Thin Lizzy and Rainbow and so on. But Deep Purple was my first real music experience and has always been the North Star for me.
What about drummers? Who were the drummers that you were like, yes? Ian Pace from Deep Purple, the guy with the round glasses, who was just insane driving Deep Purple. I gravitated towards also Phil Rudd from ACDC who's obviously very different than Ian Pace.
But he was a huge, huge inspiration. How did it go over with your family? You say it was a big tennis family.
I'm assuming that there wasn't a lot of hard rock happening in the car on the way back and forth to the courts like yeah how did they feel about there was a lot of anything happening in the car because i biked to school uh starting in second grade that big sort of career pivot for you and lifestyle pivot for you were they cool with that yeah my dad was very uh was very forgiving with all that

like i said before he was um his passion was music he actually wrote about jazz music for some danish publications and at that time excuse me in the 50s and 60s especially copenhagen but stockholm to a degree and obviously Paris were just the European havens for American jazz music. So many of the American jazz greats came to Europe, spent a lot of time in Scandinavia.
People like Ben Webster lived in Copenhagen. Dexter Gordon lived in Copenhagen chikai uh but uh copenhagen was very much a hotbed for for jazz music at the time um growing up to like kind of to jason's point like where you uh your parent because i was like like when i we lived we grew up in a super small house and i was always playing piano practice piano and i drove everybody crazy because it was so tiny how in the the world, like Jason and Will, what if your kids just like, Dad, I want to play drums.
I'd throw them out. I mean, that going on in the house constantly.
I'd throw them out. We got the electric ones now with the headset.
Yeah, with the headset. Yeah, that's true.
We didn't have that back in the day, right, Lars? They didn't have those back in the day, no. I had a room down in the basement where I had a little music room where I had my records and my record player and I got a drum kit, a small piece together drum kit down and I could bash away down in the basement and do my thing down there without pissing off too many of us.
That's so good. I can't imagine that going through the house all the time.
I mean, it's great that you did it and everybody does it. Now, Lars, us soft actors, we fantasize about life on the – you're pretty soft too.
Hard rock, traveling and touring and having all that fun. You look so good, so healthy, so not like you've been on the road in like arguably the biggest rock and roll band ever for years and years and years has the has the touring change now in the past decade or so such that you don't look like death warmed over like what how does it all work now you guys get to bed early shake.
Another good title. It's not 30 beers.
It's just 15. Yeah, it's a protein shake, right? And some mindfulness.
Yeah. You know, the short answer is yes.
You know, we just played a couple shows out at MetLife Stadium on Friday and Sunday here in New York, where I'm checking in from.

And we're on our way up to Montreal in a couple days. Nice.
So right now we're playing every Friday and Sunday for the rest of the summer. We play two shows in each city.
So the travel is less. That's nice.
And it's a weekend thing. and it is it's protein shakes

it's tofu

it's a weekend thing. And it's protein shakes, it's tofu, it's vegetables.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. If my 20 or 30-year-old self was on this podcast with you guys, he would be sitting going, what the fuck are you talking about? But 42 years in, obviously you have to make these changes.
And growing up in a, you know, around tennis and growing up around sports, it's not that difficult for me to be rigid and disciplined. I barely drink.
I haven't had a drink in three months. I'll have a half a glass of champagne and and that's it uh occasionally but other than that uh still playing tennis i still do play tennis yeah i love playing tennis and i love sports and i love being engaged and i work out i'm uh they have me chained to a peloton uh most of the time when i'm not doing podcasts or playing rock shows.
And so I do work out a lot. That's great.
But it is true about the protein shakes. And we're fortunate to have, you know, our great chef Simon who travels with us and hands us all kinds of healthy and, you know, healthy drinks and it's good good.
Listen, we've lived it. Lots of crazy fun.
I mean, also we started, you know, James and I met when I was 17, he was 18. We started Metallica.
We put our first record out when I was 19 and we were touring the world 19 and 20. So we started early.
That's just so amazing to me. And, you know, we got a lot of that fun stuff out of the way.
And I can access a good part of those memories when I want to. Some of them live really far back there behind doors that are hard to open and probably shouldn't be opened.
But nowadays, you know, I'm knocking on the door of 60 here later this year. And the only way to play shows like we just did out at MetLife Stadium here is to be in the best shape you can be.
So, you know, all kidding aside and cliches, yes, it is obviously pretty different than it was 20, 30 years ago, and thankfully so, because the victory now is the perseverance and being able to still do it, and that's kind of what motivates us. Yeah, I bet it does, and I bet you can't imagine, I bet you're, speaking about your younger selves, I bet your 17-year-old self, when you met James Hetfield and you guys formed Metallica, I couldn't imagine that all these years later, you guys would still be fucking rocking out and going and playing stadiums around the world.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy. We've been playing.
So I looked into it the other day. So we've played out at, it used to be called Giant Stadium.
Now you have to say MetLife so you don't, because you get into a whole divisive conversation between the Giants and the Jets.

You don't want to do that around here. But we played – I just looked it up.
We've played Giants Stadium nine times. Wow.
And we've had obviously a relationship with the greater New York tri-state area, whatever you want to call it, for four-plus decades. The two shows we just played this weekend were the two biggest shows we've ever played in New York City.
Holy shit. So that's not a, hey, look how great big Metallica is or whatever.
That's about the music scene. That's about post-COVID people want to come out and live again.
That's about hard rock but they're not coming out for everybody you know you deserve some credit for the longevity and the relevance and the quality of the music and your relationship with your fans and all of that stuff your mental health right because if you guys were a disaster people would probably get turned off by if there was a bunch of infighting and all that garbage so you you've kept it all together. Thank you.
I appreciate that. But I think a significant part of what drives us to this day is that we're kind of led by the mantra of our best days are still ahead of us and our favorite record is the one we haven't made yet and that we actually may turn professional at some point and do this for real one day.
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And now back to the show. You know, I want to kind of get into a little bit about you and James.
Because you guys met at such a young age, talking about like the, you know, and that you seem to still have, by virtue of what you just said, you still have this like drive to like create something new and you're still excited about that creative process. What was it about that when you guys met at such a young age, coming from such different backgrounds, what was the thing that clicked for you guys creatively? Before you answer that, just to piggyback on that, I think it's fascinating what Will just said, that at such a young age, you found somebody else that wanted to take it as serious as you did? What are the odds of that? Yeah.
You know? And every time people ask me that question, I always have to throw in that the energy of the universe is a big part of it. Because, you know, like you're saying, the two of us finding each other, you know, what we had in common, there were so many things we didn't have in common.
But what we had in common was that we were both sort of loners. We weren't like outcasts in that sense or like the awkward weirdos, but we were loners and we were misfits and we were disenfranchised in a way that we just lived in our own worlds and listened to old music.

When I ended up at Corona Del Mar High School in 1980, trust me, there was nobody else wearing an Iron Maiden t-shirt. And so it was a pretty isolated existence.
And so what James and I ended up doing was we were the brothers that neither of us never had. And we started writing songs together and just creating the world for ourselves that we wanted to inhabit.
And at that time, there was never anything about, you know, goals or success, or we're going to be, you know, famous, or this is going to translate into something, you know, with the mainstream success that there was none of that because at that time, the music that we were into and the things that were turning us off were so edgy and so isolated away from, from mainstream acceptance that that was never, that was never even the cards. But, you know, what's interesting about that, Lars, is that you guys were making like, you know, whatever you want to call it, hard rock, heavy metal.
You guys were making like music that was really driving it and it was not necessarily mainstream. And then I think about, I think probably what, three or four records in, by the time you guys made Metallica, which is a lot of people call the Black album, by the time you guys made Metallica, you really broke through to the mainstream.
You had a few hits that were kind of like leading up to it, but then the Black album really broke through. And in a lot of ways, I thought before, I was like, is it that everybody else's tastes changed or that you guys kind of, you guys prepared everybody to listen to this music? Like you guys kind of got them into this hard rock in a way.

I don't know.

I think you have to put the record companies in there when you answer that question.

So the record companies at that time were the gateway to everything.

So the record companies, it's like the analogy I've said many times is that you walk into a restaurant and you can have anything that you want in the restaurant, as long as it's on the menu, you know? And so the record companies were, were the purveyors of the menu. And so the record companies were only signing things that they thought would appeal to a large group of people, but hovering over in the left field were all these people like ourselves that wanted something that was more substantial, a little harder, a little edgier, something that they could relate to lyrically that wasn't about this make-believe world and this fantasy that rock stars were supposedly inhabiting at the time, but people like themselves with real-world problems and anxieties and issues just like ourselves.
And so slowly over the 80s, as more and more kids understood that there were music out there for them, like the type of stuff that we were doing, they started moving further and further left. They started moving the mainstream further and further out to where, you know, bands like ourselves hovering.
And there was that seismic shift then towards the late 80s when all of a sudden the mainstream realized that there were other options that they had been fed over the years. Right.
And you guys were, like you said, lyrically, Sean, and I don't know, Lars, if you heard me before you came on. I quoted your song, One, and I said, you know, take my breath as I pray for death or God please take me.
I did, yes. Yeah, and like that.
I didn't write that one down as a potential, but I have the other ones. Well, you already have that song.
That song already exists as a hit. It's still hard to beat bread balls.
But that song is like, I mean, you think about it, you guys, I mean, that song specifically is about a guy who's basically in a coma right he's kind of paralyzed or what's the deal with that like nobody was writing songs about that and we spent a lot of time we spent a lot of time um sort of wondering what you know different mental states and so at one point we were talking about what would it be like if you couldn't speak, see, or hear, and you had no arms or legs, but you were just a living conscious. What would that feel like? What would go on inside you if you were just a living conscious? And then we found out about Dalton Trumbo's story, Johnny Got His Gun.
and then we wrote a song around that and then realized that there was actually a movie

with Jason Robards that came out um I think what late 60s early 70s and uh that became our first video uh and that was a four albums in and at that time we had never made any videos for MTV and we were sort of the anti-mtv band but we finally felt that we had an idea that was worthy of making a video and do you guys remember something called dial mtv back in the day and um so the first day that that video premiered and was eligible for um for for dial mtv it premiered at number one and it stayed at number one for like the next couple of months. And that was a significant, I think a wake-up call to a lot of the industry, them realizing that there was something else out there than, I don't want to mention names, but that was out there at that time that was generating a lot of the attention.
Something more than Frankie Goes to Hollywood with the lasers. Way to go, JB.
I mean, we're all dancing all around it. Do you miss videos at all? We still make videos.
We made for our new album. Now it's actually the opposite for the last two records we've put out.
We've made videos for every song on them because if you, now, you know, so many people hear albums on YouTube. So you want to have a video that you've made yourself

for every song on your album

rather than having somebody else make them.

So we've made videos for every song on the last album

that just came out a few months ago.

I love that.

I remember a long, long time ago.

I don't remember the year, but...

Just guess.

Is this when your dad left?

This is when your dad left?

Is this the year your dad left?

When my dad left.

Yeah, it was 1975. No.
Do you have a question for my dad, Lars? I'm going to drive and just light up the rear, pause the traction, and go. No, I have a question.
You know, just like Metallica may turn professional one day, you guys should do this for me. We will.
No, I remember hearing about you doing a concert in Antarctica, right? That's right. And you were the only band who's played on all seven continents, which is wild.
And it was sort of by chance. It was not something that we set out to do.
Well, I don't think one would, but yeah. No, but it's not like you sit there and go, hey, what should we do this year? Let's play all seven continents.
We were playing in Latin America. We were playing in Europe.
We were playing in North America. We had shows in Africa and Asia.
And all of a sudden it was like, whoa, there's a thing happening here. And we got an offer from, I believe it was Coca-Cola.
It was a soft drink in Brazil who said that they were putting together a competition. And the prize was to travel to Antarctica and hang out.
And they wanted to know if we would come down and play for this group of soft drinkers. Was it cold? Well, it was, so it was December, which is their June, which is their high summer.
And it wasn't as cold and it wasn't as frigid and it wasn't as sort of otherworldly as you would expect it to be. Yeah, because I was going to say, how do your hands work? But we were down there for a couple, four or five days.

We stayed on an icebreaker and we stayed with all the contest winners

and all our crew were all on this icebreaker together,

which was super fun.

And then we played on a Chilean research base

and we played in a tent.

And do you guys know what silent disco is?

No.

Where do you wear? So, yeah exactly everybody uh everybody had headphones on uh so the i think there were like maybe 300 people there in total everybody had headphones on so they could hear the music and so it didn't disturb the environment it didn't disturb the penguins it didn't disturb the really the other endangered species of animals that were there and so so we left no, there was not even noise pollution. It's weird.
Last summer I was in New York and I saw these kids late night and they're all on the steps of this church at like midnight on a Friday night and everybody's moving and nobody's saying a word. And I realized they've all got headphones on.
They're all jamming and they're all dancing to the song, but you can't hear it. fucking weird so the only thing you can hear in the room uh are the lead vocals and the drums other than that all the amplified uh instruments are going through the headphones so it was uh it was definitely a mind fuck to be down there a lot of fun and uh to answer your question uh it wasn't as crazy cold or as uh as as fucked up as you would imagine it to be.
But it was cool. I want to go back to James just for one second, just talk about collaboration and sort of sharing power and creativity and, you know, not just with him but with the rest of the bandmates.
I mean, you guys have been together and so successful and so harmoniousious uh no pun intended for so long is there a secret sauce to that um you know i'm sure there's some good leadership involved yeah i would say the probably the word compromise sure you gotta learn to compromise you gotta learn to know when to lead and you gotta learn when to step step back. James and I have been obviously in the band since the beginning.
And we, I guess, we steer most of the creative conversations and we take turns steering. And I think compromise is the key thing.
And, you know, if you want to be in a band in your 50s and 60s, and really want to be in a band, you've got to learn to sort of work with the environment of sort of how to deal with everybody's personal needs. The reason that there is millions of bands of people in their teens and 20s and fewer bands of people in their 50s and 60s is, you know, when people get older, they just don't want to deal with other people's shit.
And you don't want to compromise and you don't want to, hey, I've got a, you know, my son's graduation is the week of Lollapalooza. Oh, well, I guess we can't play Lollapalooza or whatever.
So there's a lot of those types of conversations that take place. And we have a thing in our band where everybody gets a chance to, you know, black dates out and put, you know, X's in a calendar and that can't be challenged.
We're very supportive of each other's personal space. And we, you know, we put more resources and time into sort of the whole thing functioning as a band than we ever have before.
And I'm not going to bullshit you. I mean, that doesn't get any easier as you get older.
Now, most of the kids are grown up and, you know, off to college or in their 20s. So there's less concerns about getting home.
But we, you know, we, I mean, 10 years ago, we would tour in two-week increments. We would go on the road for two weeks, go home for two weeks, you know, go on the road for two weeks, go home for two weeks.
So we wouldn't miss, you know, being with our kids and all that stuff. I was going to ask you about that, about family.
I mean, you guys must have had some very supportive and flexible families throughout all of this. Yeah, but we've also steered it in the direction of trying to keep all that, you know, as together as possible.
I'm sure it's the same with you guys, but, you know, in our world, it takes a few years before you realize that you actually have a say in some of this. And so when you start out, you just get handed a schedule.
And when you're 22 years old, hey, I just want to play as many gigs as possible and travel as much and be as drunk as possible and get into all kinds of crazy shenanigans. But then you realize later, hang on a second, I can actually say, I only want to be on the road for three months and then i want to spend three months at home or you know so you know as you go along and become more successful you realize that you have a say in this stuff well we're we're lucky because we started doing certainly we started doing this thing in our 50s and as we've done and we've we've talked about maybe uh you know we went on we did a short tour a couple years ago and we're talking about one.
But everything that we do, we always do with the understanding that like everybody's got stuff. And if somebody's got stuff, we never challenge it in that same way either because we know what life's like and it's kids and it's thing.
And Sean's been doing his play for six months and like that's important. So we've got to honor that.
And that's a thing you've got to do. I forgot to ask, because I've always wanted to know this.
Favorite color? Who came up with... No.
I was going to... Because he ever forgot a line on stage.
I know that Sean was lighting up. Favorite appetizer on the chin-chin menu.
No, no, no. What was...
What's your favorite... Dipping sauce.
Who came up with Metallica? No, Metallica. Where'd that come from? Dumpling dipping sauce.
The name? Yeah, man. Ron Quintana.
Ron Quintana was a friend of mine in San Francisco. Up in San Francisco, there was a little bit of a different music scene than in LA where we started.
And we started playing up in San Francisco early and we had some friends up there and so on. But one of the guys up there, Ron Quintana, he back then pre-internet, pre, you know, all this stuff, you know, if you wanted information about your favorite bands, you had to, you know, write to pen pals or, you know, and everybody, everybody that was really into music at the time made their own fan scenes, as they were called.

So it was eight pages stapled together down at Kinko's about whatever their favorite French heavy metal band that five people had heard of was into.

And so Ron Quintana wanted to start a little fan magazine.

And he asked me one day whether he should call it Metal Mania

or whether he should call it Metallica.

And I told him to call it Metal Mania.

Because we're taking Metallica.

I'll hang on to the Metallica for you.

And so I've been forgiven that, thankfully, a long time ago,

and Ron is still a good friend.

Let's go. It's a fucking, it's a rad name.
It feels good on my tongue. So, Lars, this is the standard, Sean.
Hey, Sean. Sorry to subject you to my dumb question here, but these are my favorite answers.
God, again, Lars, we're so... Hey, mid-city to play in.
Isn't it Coldplay without your top on? No, I want to know. Reach some boxers.
Why is your hat always backwards? What's going on? You don't want to see what lives under here, trust me. Or what doesn't live under there.
I want to know the craziest tour story. Like, fan weirdness.
Something that went wrong on stage or during a set. Or, like, you got to have something that just was like, oh, God, the worst one of all was blank.
Well, we're very lucky. I'll answer both.
We're very lucky in that we have an incredible group of people that follow us pretty much wherever we go. We actually started selling tickets to them on the last tour.
We have something called the Black Ticket. So you can buy now a ticket that gets you into all the shows on a tour and uh so there's uh there's uh hundreds if not thousands of people you know will go out and play for you know six eight weeks in europe or whatever and it's you know we see all the same faces down front no so passionate they come from all over from from Latin America, from Asia, from Europe.
So we have the black tickets. What's that black ticket running, Lars? Yeah.
The black ticket. Well, I know people, if you're interested, Jason, and you want to come out, it runs, what is it, 800 bucks? There's got to be some kind of a break on it, right? 800? Oh, there's a big break.
Yeah, there's a big break on it. That's nothing.
For all those shows? We try to be as fan-friendly as possible. It's like a ski pass.
How much did he say? 800 bucks. You can see all the shows and the entire tour.
No fucking way. Now, they don't get to jump on the plane.
They don't get to jump on the plane, no, but... I'm going to buy it for all of us.
Fuck, Lars, I'm going to get you one too. Yeah.
You know what, though? I wish I'd had that. You know, I saw you guys.
So, Lars, I saw you in Guns N' Roses in September of 1992 at Canadian National Exhibition Stadium in Toronto. It was one of the fucking great concerts I've ever been to.
Oh, right on. It was un-fucking-real.
I was 22. Sure.
And you guys rocked it out. And I have such a vivid memory of you.
God, I don't even know what. It was basically every song you guys played.
And everybody in unison rocking out. I've never seen anything like it before or since in the way the dedication and the sort of the rhythmic unison.
It's very, very, very passionate. It's religious.
The stuff that your eyeballs have seen from your position, you get to see the whole band in front of you and then all of the people in the crowd. Dude, I'm telling you, it's bizarre.
It was fucking intense. Images you have in your head must be incredible.
But also now, I'll tell you, I'll circle back to the question that Shani was asking earlier and I'll give you a variation on what you just said about seeing all the people in front of me. So there was, you talk about Malfunctions,

the first one that always comes to mind

because it left a deep, deep scar.

You were talking about the Black Album, Will.

And so we were touring on the Black Album,

which was our most successful record up till then.

And we had been in America for maybe a year, year and a half.

We'd done the Guns N' Roses tour and we were starting in Europe a few months later. And we were playing in London.
And at that time, and obviously still, you know, London is just press and business and peers and, you know, publicity. and all the people from all the record companies and all the publicists and everybody from all of Europe are there.
It's London. And at that time, it's all, you know, music magazines and weeklies like The Enemy and Kerrang! and blah, blah, blah.
And so we're playing in the round, which we still do. And I have a drum kit on either side of the stage.
And halfway through the set, I'm supposed to run over. And then, you know, the other drum kit, I'm supposed to sit on the other drum kit as it lifts out of the stage.
And then I play the other half of the show over on the other side. We could probably guess what happened.
So this is the first big show of this European tour. Everybody in our universe is there.
And so the drum kit is under the stage. I'm on the drum kit.
And it won't fucking lift up out of the stage. So my view is not 20,000 crazy people in Wembley Arena or wherever it was.
It's all the nuts and bolts and the steel and the 12 roadies that are down, you know, under the stage with like crowbars and fucking screwdrivers and hammers or whatever they're doing to try to get this thing to lift up out of the stage. I ended up playing like a song and a half.
Underground. Under the stage, submerged, just sitting there.
And as Metallica was supposed to, you know, have all these articles written about the triumphant return back to Europe after three years after being the biggest rock band in America. The whole story was just about Lars's fucking drums that didn't want to lift out of the stage so welcome

back to europe thank you very much that's great i love that's that is so great and so so what did you finish the rest on the other drum set the rest of the show on the other uh eventually uh with enough crowbars and determination that the drums ended up on stage where they belonged that's good we'll be right back

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same kind of um early ambition that you guys had to sort of be a little left or a little right of

what is being embraced, you know, that's sort of real mainstream. You guys are really courageous by kind of pushing the envelope.
Is there somebody in music right now that you're excited about their courage? I mean, there's a lot of great people in garages and in bedrooms all over, obviously, making records on their computers now that don't need to go into studios and do the whole spiel that everybody had to do 20, 30 years ago. They don't have to rely on record companies.
I think an artist like Billie Eilish, you know, what her and her brother did a couple of years ago with those first records that were made at home on the computers is crazy cool and is so it sort of epitomizes you know the shift of you need a record contract and you need half a million bucks to go into a proper studio and make a record now and and know, they made those first couple of records just at home on their computers. And that, to me, sort of is indicative of the possibilities now that the technology, you know, the four of us could make a record for the rest of the afternoon and put it out tomorrow.
Let's do it. Jesus, why are we not doing this? Why are we not doing this already? Why are we not doing this right fucking now, Laura? Do we want to break the internet or not? What are we doing? Well, speak a little bit more about that, about the record industry and stuff, not to get sort of in the weeds about all that, but obviously there's been a big change in the record industry.
Stream the record industry where streaming etc yeah and you're not really selling albums uh as much as more of kind of a la carte kind of songs that are downloaded on streamers and then the bands really make their money correct me if i'm wrong from touring now and so i'm assuming that the bands if they want to make money they got to be on the road more are you guys on the road more you guys don't need to make money but how do you how are you feeling about the way the the the business is sort of balanced right now as far as being out versus selling albums staying home and the the ratio of that well obviously it's changed quite a bit uh and in in your guys's industry the some of the same things that we were dealing with 20 years ago are happening. Yeah.
You know, I mean, big picture, and I know this may sound like a little bit of a cop-out, I'm just happy that fucking anybody cares about what we're doing and shows up to see us play and still stream or buy or steal our records or whatever it it it the engagement itself i think is the triumph and the victory obviously it's way way harder for a lot of the younger bands nowadays because they don't they don't get the support of the record companies uh for basic things uh just like you know gear uh and and and tour much of a different thing. It's, I just, you know, talent, good songwriting, eventually will find a home with a larger group of people and whether you do it from your bedroom or through a record company or whatever, you know, I believe that everybody will be heard eventually if they're talented.
But it is tough. It's tough for a lot of the younger bands out there and for a lot of the bands that, you know, 20 years ago could make a living playing clubs or theaters are having a harder time now because they don't sell as many records.
And you really have to be out there and pushing it. Do you feel like when you go and you make a record, like your new record, 72 Seasons, that you guys made that came out this year and that you're touring, I think you're touring this year on, right? This is on the new record.
Yep. When you make that new record, when you guys have conversations about it coming out, like are you guys like, or I don't know, the record company or whoever, it's such a different approach because you're not going to the record stores, it's not sending out vinyl or it's not sending out CDs or it's not sending out, it's like load up the streamer or does that play at all into it? Yeah, I mean, it's the key thing, you know, as an artist, I think when you write songs, and it's the same with you guys, you want to start a conversation.
You want people to engage. You want people to hear your music.
How they hear it, I guess, eventually become second tier. And you understand that it's a changed model than it was 25 years ago, 50 years ago, whatever.
I think that, you know, in our band, we just love writing songs and we love making records. We love the creative process.
And that's, there a lot of bands that have been around as long as we have that simply don't want to make records anymore because it either doesn't work for them or the the business model of it doesn't work for them and i can't speak for everybody else we love writing songs being creative is a significant part of who we are.

And it gives us a chance to, you know, what makes us stay functioning is that we go from writing to recording to playing gigs to writing to home.

We're always changing up what we're doing so we never get stuck in the sameness over and over. And so we're not always on the road.
We're not always in the studio. We're not always taking our kids to school or whatever.
We're not always doing the same thing. So you have to kind of keep just breaking it up and changing what you're doing.
And so obviously, I understand that we're exceptionally fortunate, but our success gives us the opportunity to sort of do all that. But we would be, if somebody said you can't write or make records anymore, we would probably stop what we're doing because it's such an essential part of just our existence as people.

Sure, sure.

And I love, by the way, I love that you didn't say exceptionally lucky.

You said fortunate because you're not lucky.

It wasn't luck that you guys got here.

You guys are talented, but you do recognize the fortune. He also has not, we're at minute 1590.

He hasn't said storyteller at all.

I know, it's true, it's true.

He has not said storyteller.

Wait, wait, Lars.

I have a list of words here not to say on podcast.

That's number seven.

Lars, if we got a hold of your personal music device, whatever it is that you use when you're working out, when you're cycling or doing whatever, what's on there? What gets you going? What do you like to listen to currently? I don't mean of all time necessarily. It's very varied, obviously.
I'll still circle those Deep Purple records from 50 years ago that I... Is there a genre you're not a fan of? No, I mean, I listen to everything from rock music to jazz music to reggae to pop to hip-hop, R&B.
I mean, I think the easiest way to answer is, and forgive me again if this sounds like a cop-out, but there really are only two kinds of music. There's great music and less great music.
And so in hard rock, there's great music and less great music just like in pop or in reggae. You know, a couple days ago, driving back from rehearsals out at MetLife Stadium, we were listening to Bronski beat.
Remember that? Yes. Sure.
Run away, turn away, run away, turn away. Yeah, we were listening to...
We love Bronski beat. I was pumping some Bronski beat and some...
That's awesome. Jimmy Somerville.
Yeah, Jimmy Somerville. Love him.
Beat Boy, Beat Boy. Hit that perfect Beat Boy.
No way. We were listening to the Happy Mondays.
We were listening to Stone Rose. Tristan, my melon, man.
You know you speak so... Oh, Stone Rose of Fools.
I love Stone Rose. I listen to that.
So it's a lot of varied stuff all the time. Lars, we're in the same.
What about listening to a full album? Yeah, did anybody do that anymore? Yeah, people don't really buy albums as much as they used to. They're sort of pulling down kind of a single song here, a la carte there.
Whereas Pink Floyd, The Wall comes to mind where there's a whole through line a thread a continuity a thematic that goes throughout the whole album because bands knew that people would potentially buy an entire album instead of a single and listen to it and you're saying that they're telling a story i'm all around it but i'm not gonna say it you were so close to it but like um do you think that that

will ever kind of happen again where there's like a like a rock opera that's kind of oh like tommy yeah it's probably not and not in the classic sense that you're saying it i mean there's a great band uh who we've had play with us the last couple years called greta van fleet oh i love that Those guys are great.

And they still write longer songs.

They appeal to a very young audience. And they still do crazy long guitar solos.
They're really, really great songwriters. They're very dramatic.
They're very theatrical, those kids, man. Yes.
They're cool. Super cool.
We've had them with us playing a special guest for the last couple of years to a lot of shows. But I don't think that...
Yeah, but let me tell you something. Jason's idea is good because here's the thing.
Hamilton, the musical Hamilton, it's rapping. Everybody raps.
Right. It's like, what? A musical that raps? People would be floored if you guys used your music or created new music with your sound.
It's never been done. Do a musical.
What about a musical, Lars? That's what I'm saying. Come on.
Let's make some news right now. I love the reaction on his face.
No, I can see his face. That's a yes.
He's laughing. Guys, we've got it.
There it is. Metallic.
He's laughing. Hey, Lars, let me ask you this before.
Is that what we're looking for here on Exclusive? Is that what we're doing? No, we're not getting into musicals. Sean, for once, just one guest, just leave him out of musicals.
Yeah, stop getting everyone on the board, Sean. Nobody likes musicals.
Lars doesn't like cats. I know.
Listen, I saw Hamilton. I saw OG Hamilton.
OG, OG, and was as blown away as everybody else and subsequently saw it, what, four times and think that Lin is one of those talented people on this planet. Oh, talent.
I went back later that night and just like Googled and YouTubed as much as I could. That clip where he's in the White House, like five, six years earlier, did you guys see that clip? So Hamilton came out in what, 16? This is what, 09? He was in the White House and was telling Obama and the rest of the gathered there that he was working on a musical about Alexander Hamilton.
And everybody was just Yeah. And then he did like, he did the first five minutes of it afterwards.
That's right. Oh, no way.
You got like standing ovation. Yeah, he's a genius.
Lin's a genius. Fucking, have you never seen that clip, Jason? No, I'm going to check that out.
Oh, it's great. You got to check it out.
It's just a piano and him rapping. Oh, that's great.
Or something like that. Really fucking crazy guy.
Yeah, he's a mega talent. Very cool.
He's a mega talent. And guess what? I'll what? I'll tell you what.
I'll meet you halfway. Okay.
I'll meet you halfway. My sense is this is going well.
So when Metallica has some musical news, you guys can break it. Yes.
Lovely. I love this.
I love this. I heard it here.
If you'll have me back, even just for five minutes, then we can make it an exclusive. You're the fourth host.
You're the fourth Beatle right now. Lars, I want you, when we go on tour, if we go on tour, we're talking about going overseas, if we go on tour again, We'd love for Metallica to open for us.
To open with us, simultaneously. You can be our lead in there.
Wow. It was going great until then.
We can get into. I read about William Friedkin also this morning or yesterday.
R.I.P. I understand the no mentioning of the great films that he made and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And I did read about the... So people know it's because of the strike we can't mention them.
Just so Tracy knows. Yeah.
No, I'm right there with you. Lars, listen, he was another genius too.
And again, I don't want to embarrass you, but you're a genius, man. You've made so much great music for so long.
Yeah. Such a fan.
And you're a nice guy. That's the big deal.
You're so patient. You don't have to be and you are.
You have such a great vibe and you're such a great dude and it was such a pleasure meeting you all those years ago and having you on here and talking to you, man. Yeah, I feel like I've known you.
Continued success, dude. Well, thank you.
Thanks for having me. Get back out of here.
We'll go hang out with Coop. Let's do it.
He's going to cover himself back up again. This thing is I'm sitting up in my publicist's office here down in Tribeca, and I walked in and was handed this piece of paper.
I go, wow, this is high tech. Yeah, high tech.
Yeah, no limits here.

We are top of the heap over here at Smartless.

Thank you for saying yes to this, buddy.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for being your pick, Will.

I enjoyed the time a couple years ago in France,

and it's great to see you guys.

Sean, nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you, too.

Good luck on the rest of the tour.

When we have musical news,

we'll break it with you guys.

I love it.

You're the first. Thank you, Lars.
Thanks, Lars. Much love.
See you soon. Bye.
Bye. Bye.
Wow. That was a great cat, Willie.
Yeah. You know what's interesting about him is, you know, I wasn't one to run out and buy Metallica.
Obviously, I like their songs and know a lot of them and was a fan of them growing up too. But it's rare that the drummer is as famous as the band.
It's true. Who else? Phil Collins? Phil Collins.
But he was also... Yeah, but he...
But Lars and James started the band, right? So they formed it together. So you had guitarist and drummer forming the band.
I guess, boy, that might be the first connection there. Which one would Andrew Ridgely be? He would be Lars.
Huh. Let's get Lars back on the lower.
And by the way, let's get James on here real quick too, you know what I mean? James, that makes you George. I guess.
No, he was very, very cool. He's so cool.
He's such a cool dude. He does have such a great vibe and he's so I don't know.
I just love the way you can really access everything. When you ask him a question and he can really access it and he's so sort of concise and he's so quick.
Yes, I like that he's open to sharing anything. Yeah, yeah.
That's the key to keeping a little group together is just don't be a dick. Yeah.
Okay? 100%. You see me looking at you, Sean and Will? You're looking in the mirror.
I'm not looking at my square. I'm looking at your square.
Don't be dicks. Let's go see.
I can't believe we missed them at Giant or MetLife, whatever. I think it's a great idea if they open for us.
But we should wait until they come a little closer. Maybe you asked Metallica.
It's so great. No, he was offering.
I'm pretty sure he was offering to open for us. Yeah, let's wait until they get a little closer to Los Angeles.

I know, but they are because they're on tour for their record 72 seasons.

It would be great to go.

We should definitely go see them in Los Angeles.

That would be so fun.

That would be fun.

I would love to see them.

I'm going to go see Tay-Tay tomorrow night.

Are you?

I think that's what, isn't that what kids are calling her?

Tay-Tay Swifty?

Yeah.

Are you going to Tay-Tay tomorrow? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are? Yeah, yeah.
Are you taking Franny and MAPE? No, no, just solo. Wow.
Just a one? It's going to be in the parking lot with a little sign. Single.
Single. Single.
Anyone got a single? Yeah. No, it will be a full family.
Thanks. You should do a video of yourself.
Amanda, too. Alone.

Yeah, she's part of the family, and we're all going to go.

Self-drive or Uber?

No, it'll be self-driving.

You don't drink anymore, so I can self-drive.

No, I know, but I know how, you know, we get into the state.

Where is it, SoFi?

It's at SoFi, yeah.

And apparently you've got to pick an album to sort of dress as,

and I don't know my album.

Name one of her albums, one.

Name one of her albums, one. I couldn't.
I'm going to go ahead and go ahead see what I'm wearing right now Yeah That's what it'll be tomorrow night Oh the you know what I refer to that is the fuck it The fuck it Yeah Yeah the fuck it You got a lot of fuck it Wasn't George Costanza that said if you wear sweats you're you're you're telling the world you've given up? I mean... It's a declaration.

I guess so.

There it is.

Sean has given up.

Oh, look at Sean.

Look, I have something to say.

If Metallica can't open for us at every single leg of our tour, if we tour again,

they should just at least at one of them or two of them just do a fly.

Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Smartless Smartless Smartless Smartless Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarf, and Bennett Barbaco. Smart List.
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