“Depeche Mode”

This message is brought to you by Apple Card.

Apple Card is a no-fee credit card that gives you daily cash back every day.

That's 3% back at Apple and 2% back on every purchase made with Apple Card using Apple Pay.

Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone today.

Subject to credit approval, variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to 28.49% based on creditworthiness.

Rates as of January 1st, 2025.

Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at AppleCard.com.
Do you own a business that's ready to thrive? It's time to let Intuit QuickBooks take things like unpaid invoices and tracking expenses off your plate to take things to the next level. Intuit QuickBooks is an all-in-one business platform that can help with day-to-day tasks like invoicing and expenses.
Manage and grow your business all in one place. Intuit QuickBooks, your way to money.
Money movement services are provided by Intuit Payments, Inc., licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services. Last year, Americans ate 32 billion chicken wings.
Who knows just how many helpless sides of celery were heartlessly thrown away.

But this year, celery

neglect stops with you

and irresistible Jif peanut

butter, because every bite counts

and you can make a snack to

make a difference.

You can buy a jar of Jif to save the

celery. Hillary.
I'm going to go. Thank you.
You know what I started doing during the day?

It's watching Deal or No Deal.

Remember that show?

Deal or No Deal.

Is that the one where it's like a Plinko machine?

No, Sean, remind me what happened.

So the libraries all ran out of books.

And so you found yourself with a few extra hours

to start watching the daytime.

This is the suitcase one. So this is on a game show network or something? Yes, it's on game show network.
That's exactly right. So you're just crushing great ideas during the day and then doing theater at night? No, I can't text and type because I want to save my hands because I play piano on the show.
And so I watch some games while I have my for while i had my breakfast so i watched deal another remember that show yeah of course what does breakfast look like these days right now when you're in production let me guess jason go first it's uh eggs benedict because that's that's a breakfast with a sauce and you know there needs to be a sauce on every meal well Okay, let me have a guess. Yeah.

It's kind of like a sausage muffin thing, but instead of like an English muffin on the sides are donuts. Cut in half like a bagel? Yeah.
By the way, that sounds amazing. The sausage is just loose, good and plenty's, you know, the licorice.

Instead of, yeah, at a restaurant, instead of like that pepper grinder,

they go, good and plenty's? Yeah.

And they just squeeze it out.

Sean, remember that huge, Sean, remember that photo of you and me and Scotty

with that huge pepper grinder?

We were in Istanbul and the guy came over.

You know, they come over and they go like, would you like some pepper?

I can't hear about the European vacations anymore with you guys.

That was the second European trip we did.

So anyway, so Sean and I are there and the guy comes up.

Who was your date, Will?

Who was my date?

Well, it doesn't matter.

I could have been your date.

We don't need to get into.

Every time we mention somebody now on the podcast,

that person's like, I got 30 phone calls.

I know.

So anyway, you know, the guy comes up and they go, you want some fresh pepper? And they go, yeah, let's get some fresh pepper. Give us a Turkish accent, Will.
And this guy, no, and this guy, you think I want to have to write a fucking... Your mystery guest is laughing.
A notes apology that I got to post. His mic is hot, it's a mail.
I got to post on my Instagram a notes apology because you prompted me to do an accent of the guy who was my server in Istanbul. No, thank you.
So anyway. Stop reading.
He goes, would you like some pepper? And I'm not, Sean, tell me, right, I'm not exaggerating. The pepper shaker was four feet long.
And two guys came out to hold it. And two guys to hold it.
Yeah. That sounds like my big bong years back in my early 20s.

Yeah.

That used to be on my dating profile.

It takes two guys to hold it.

Listen, I have a...

Your guest is still laughing.

I know.

That's a good sign.

It's a good sign.

Wait, but you guys, I texted you one of those comments.

Did I text you both?

The comment was like a week ago and somebody wrote about my show? No. They said, didn't you get that, Jay? The fat suit.
Yeah, another fucking fat suit thing. Wait, what? Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Somebody made a comment that Sean Mays is wearing a fat suit in his play? No, somebody asked me on my Instagram or somewhere, Twitter, I don't remember. And it was, Sean, did they, is that, is the outfit that they put you in supposed to make you look bigger, which is, you know, code for fatter.
Right. And it's just, I'm just fucking fat.
And tell them what your friend said you should say. No, it's supposed to make me look thinner.
Why? By the way, Sean, it reminded me, I was watching, I was thinking about your dating profile. Remind me I was watching Alone, that show, right? And it reminded me of something that they say in that all the time, which is also in your dating profile, which is, hey, Bear.
Hey, Bear. Hey, Bear.
What's up, Bear? Now, Will, you know, a shameless plug here. I know you have your new show.
Yeah, have you not watched Outlast yet? Oh, no, I want to see that. I haven't seen it yet.
Well, come yet. I know I'm going to watch it.
Sean, sounds like you've got time on your hands maybe instead of Deal or No Deal. Are you kidding, dude? There's 11 seasons of Deal or No Deal you're going to get through.
What was for breakfast, by the way? I had, yesterday I had egg, cheese, and... We don't need the full week.
A cheese, egg, and bacon bagel. And then today I did good.
I did yogurt with grape nuts and blueberries. And a banana.
And a little bit of a candy bar. God, there's...
Wait, was the candy bar like a fun dip for the yogurt? No, it was a payday. You called that the equalizer, right? Just to cancel out everything else.
Time for the equalizer. It was half a payday.
Hey, listen. You want to talk about a payday? Our guests.
Segway, segway, segway. Our guests.
Let me just say this. They've sold more than 100 million records worldwide.
Wait a minute. 54 songs in the UK singles chart, 17 top 10 albums in the UK chart.
If I name a song, you're going to, I don't know, you're going to immediately guess. They're incredibly, incredibly talented guys who have been just such a huge part of the music scene for so long.
I don't want to say so many years because then they're going to be bummed out and be like, what? That makes us old. But I will say this.
We are all legitimate fans of theirs. None more than Sean and me.
Sean and I have discussed these guys all the time. It's Martin Gore and Dave Gunn from Depeche Mode.
Are you fucking kidding me? Wow. This is fucking crazy.
A real book.

This is a legit book.

This is like, I'm ready, can I go?

Hang on, Dave and Martin, you should know.

Nice to meet you, both of you gentlemen, by the way. This is unbelievable.

Such an honor.

Thank you.

Pleasure.

It's huge.

Thank you.

Dave, Sean and I, when I knew that,

and we've been sort of trying to work this out

to get you guys on here,

and Sean and I talk about you guys all the time,

and we talk about your music,

and we talk about your songs,

and about, Sean, do you remember about a month ago

when we were talking about you guys,

and we were going to,

and I knew that it was going to happen,

and it took, it was one of the worst,

it was the hardest I've ever had to work

to keep a secret in my life.

I knew, Sean, when we had that conversation.

Oh, my God.

You guys, I'm freaking out. I have 17,000 things to say to you.
We got time, Sean. We got nothing but time, actually.
You said we have nothing but time. Of course, Amy, you go, it's just a question of time.
I know every word to every song. Every word to every song.
This is so wild. And I have to do this for you guys because...
Okay, so I'm going to start out with this. Martin...
I've never seen John's... John is not excited.
I'm freaking out. So, Martin, you came to a taping of Will & Grace.
That is true. I did.
Yes. What? What if he didn't remember this? I've been trying to keep that quiet for years.
That's to dave i love it so wait so you came to a taping of will and grace and somebody whispered in my mirror you're martin gore's in the audience i'm like what are you talking about martin gore's in the audience what he's depeche mode is like my life what are you talking about and then you were there with your wife and your wife's friends or something like that and then you asked let's go out to uh grab from fish and at the standard hotel on sunset boulevard and i was like oh my god i'm gonna go out for fish and chips i've never had fish and chips this is so exciting so we go out and i'm walking down the street with you which was so surreal to me and i did i did this bit for you which is waiting for the night off a violator and i'll do it for you now which is Waiting for the Night off a Violator. And I'll do it for you now, which is...
Wait. Wait for it.
It will cut out the lock bar. Because this is what I used to do in college.
Here it comes. This is it.
This is coming up. And I wrote my fucking senior thesis paper on this song.

Come on.

In college.

Wow.

I swear to God.

Here we go.

Here we go.

This is it.

You're taking off the glasses.

Uh-oh.

I'm like that.

Doesn't sound like a bug.

Right on my forehead. I've never thought of that as sounding like a bug.
But now that you have given me that visual, when we perform that song every night, I will be thinking of you. Time to reshoot the video.
So Dave and Martin, how do you guys respond to Sean Hayes has just boiled your music down to sounding like a bug?

Oh my God.

This is unbelievable. Guys, so we, again, like, you know, not to belabor it,

but we talk about you guys all the time,

such massive fans of your music and have been all the way through.

And we've had the good fortune of having bands on the show

who have played important parts of our lives,

but there are a few bands like you guys who have been there consistently over time. And that is also the mark of real greatness, is showing consistency over time.
And you're still doing it. And so I kind of want to go back to the very beginning, if I may, and not to bore you, because we're so interested to hear about how Depeche Mode came to be.
And each one of you, I know that you each have a different journey as how you became part of Depeche Mode and I'd love to sort of hear from you guys what that process was. Shaking right now.
Well, Vince and Andy really started the whole thing. They had like a little band going and And I bought a synthesizer, so that kind of like got me in the band.
Yeah. By the way, that's a very common theme.
We've interviewed a bunch of bands, and they're always like, I had a guitar, I had a camera, whatever, right? Well, there's a lot to do with that, because what we found out, so I'll elaborate on this, but you didn't need the amp anymore and you didn't need to, you could just DI straight into a PA system, carry the little synth under your arm pretty much to a gig and show up with our little drum machine and three synths and kind of teetering on some beer crates in a pub or whatever as our our stands and we could play you know and dave did you know these guys when they first started or did you meet them a little bit later i well they were sort of infamous in the town that we grew up in for other things but um i i did not really run in the same circles but um it was a good thing for me because they sort of, you know, it gave me suddenly a focus that I had something to kind of grab hold of and maybe it was a way out of the town that we grew up in. And they, yeah, I think how we met properly was I was sort of hanging out with another band, right, Mark? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and we were just rehearsing in the same space. And one evening, and I knew Vince a bit, but we were singing, sort of jamming together the song Heroes, a Bowie song.
I love it. Vince heard me singing the song, supposedly, the story goes, and asked me to join his band, which was then a different band, which Martin was in with Vince.
What was the name of that band? Composition of Sound. What an amazing name.
For short, Coz. Co for short.
Cos. Like OMD, you know, they were trying to be like OMD.
Right, right. But meanwhile, it sounds like a manual that you find in a music store.
I was like, that's got to go. And I got such a, I got a better name, Depeche Mode, which everybody also went like, what? Right.
And they still do that. But let's talk about that because in in french it's it's fast fashion so why yeah why why fast fashion i'll tell you the story look i was a i was at a shitty sort of art college in and um as we all were at one point and um um i was doing a fashion course there and there was this this mag there was magazines there i think i think it was something like we had a gig somewhere we had to kind of we were thinking about changing the name we had a little pub gig coming up and this was the moment to change the name so what should it be and i saw this magazine it was a french sort of magazine uh french fashion magazine lying there had the name and i had no idea what it meant or anything I just read it out over the phone to somebody who said oh we're in Depeche Mode and that's a weird name and I was like yes it is did it put more pressure on you guys to come up with fancy outfits no we were already trying that most of them homemade at that point, you know, so

you know, it would be a pair of football

socks with like, you know,

up to the knees, you know, pulled up to the knees

with some cut-offs like to the knees

and tuck them in. And some house slippers.

To make them look, you know,

some house slippers that were kind of like...

Sean is fully around.

So tell me, so then, so you guys formed, so Dave, so you join and then you name and you guys call yourself depeche mode you start doing gigs how many before you your first record is uh speak and spell yeah yeah and yes yeah so everywhere to every song yeah i mean speak and spell yeah and i want to get into that in a second and into to to vince clark and and but what was before you released speak and spell how does that come about that you guys get that record deal like what are you doing where are you performing yeah um we were playing most of the songs from that record right like in um they were mostly vince clark songs and it was it's what it's really the one album that,

because Vince left immediately after that album was released. And Dave, he sang on that album.
Before it was released. Oh, really? Before it was released.
But he sang on that record too, yeah? Well, we sang together. It was a sort of three-part harmony thing, sort of Beach Boy meets Ramones type thing we were going for, I guess.
But the speed of the Ramones and the harmony of the Beach Boys, that was, I think, had

Daniel Miller from Mute Records who signed us.

He didn't really sign us, though.

It was just a sort of handshake.

We never actually signed a contract.

Really?

No.

Is that where the song, the handshake, the contract?

Martin was probably just, that was a, Martin wrote that song and he was probably just angry at everybody at that point. Music business and being ripped off again and again and again.
So this guy from Ute Records, he sees you, what, in a pub or you're playing clubs? Yes, in a pub. We supported one of his other acts called Fad Gadget at a pub called The Bridge House.
Fad Gadget. You've got to check out Fad Gadget.
You guys are going to like Fad Gadget. Great music.
Really? Yes. I'm actually going to write it down now that you say that.
Fad. F-A-D-G-A-D-E-T.
G-A-D-G-E-T. Yeah, you've got to write it down.
That's right. Martin went to school.
I did not. Oh.
Well, then you're going to...

I mean, Jason, anything?

Nothing.

Okay.

So...

So Daniel saw us supporting Fad Gadget

with our synth set up on...

By that time, we'd gone to all synths.

We started off with a bass and a guitar in the band,

but we'd gone to all synths,

and we had them set up on our beer crates,

and Daniel was impressed. Yeah, yeah he was we played really fast and uh he his story goes he he was mixing a sound for faggot this is a little pub in east the east end of london called the bridge house in canning town and uh you know we had a residency there on like thursday nights the though nobody would be there, it'd be like two people and a dog, you know, most of the time.
As Depeche Mode. Yeah, as Depeche Mode.
And the guy that ran the pub, he took a shine to us and sort of would let us play there Thursday nights. But anyway, so we got this support, which was a big thing because we loved Fad Gadget.
And, you know, and... That's so rad.
Jason loved it. Yeah, you've got to check out Fad Gadget.
So you guys, so you go and you support these guys and then this dude from Mute Records is like, yeah, you guys are, the guys who are supporting Fad Gadget are pretty good. We actually met him before.
Vince and I had trailed around all the record companies and we we had gone to rough trade records in london thinking that we had made this masterful demo that they were going to sign us immediately because we actually had melody and most of their other bands at that time did not they were just noise and we thought they're going to sign us immediately and the guy that ran the record company scott he he was not really interested but he listened to our tape. And while he was listening to the tape, Daniel Miller happened to walk into the office because Fad Gadget was being distributed by Rough Trade at the time.
And he was shouting about something. He'd gone in a record store and there was no records in there or something.
So Scott shouted out, You know, Daniel, you should listen to this. Maybe this is something you might be interested in.
He kind of growled a bit, looked over at me and Vince sitting there and just, you know, and walked out. And we were like, well, fuck him.
That's Daniel Miller from Mute Record. He knows.
We walked out of there. And this was, I guess, so the chance, the next chance meeting when we were opening for Fad Gadget daniel was mixing the sound and and he came back afterwards and uh started talking to me actually because he thought i'd written the songs because i was singing them and i said and he asked me some questions and then he's you write the songs i was like no that bloke over there does and that was vince and so he left me of course and went off and talked to Vince.
And after that night, he said,

can I come back and I think we said we were playing next Thursday he did and uh he came back and he asked if we wanted to make a 45 wow a single which is uh yeah that's like 1981 is that correct Mark is that yeah. Does that check out? It was a 45.
It was a 45 then. We called them a single.
It was a 47-inch single, a 45. And he said, I've got enough money to do that.
I will, we don't have to sign any contracts or anything. So that's like 1980, 81.
That was 1980, and Daniel is still involved with us today. No kidding.
First of all, that's incredible that you have that kind of long-lasting relationship. So it's 1980 and what were you...
You guys write this record. What were you listening to at the time that you wrote that in 1980? Yeah, I was going to say the same thing.
What were you listening to? And also, did you think back then you were following a trend where the music business is going into synth pop and maybe we should do that? Or was that truly a genuine love? It hadn't really started yet, had it? We were fans of Mute Records. Yeah.
So, you know, the fact that Daniel was offering us a one-off single deal, that was amazing to us. But who were the bands that were, at that time, that you were playing on your tape cassettes? Well, like Fad Gadget, like...
I mean, Daniel also for a while had DAF, Deutsch-Amerikannische Freundschaft. Check them out as well.
Yeah.

DAF.

DAF.

They sing in German, but...

The Normal.

Yeah, The Normal was Daniel himself.

Warm Leatherette.

You must know that.

You must know that song.

Grace Jones made it famous, I guess.

I don't know if I know.

She covered it.

I was just listening to,

this afternoon, this morning,

I was just listening to Trio.

Do you remember the da-da-da?

Da-da-da, yeah.

Yeah, that they made on the little Casio. I was just listening to that and I was listening to some blommage and i was listening to yeah yeah blommage played with us a lot in fact there was an album at the time called some bizarre album it was by this guy put it together it's and his name was steve-o and he put together actually our first recording that came out was on that record it was a song called photographic which, which was on Speak and Spell, too.
But we were part of that album. And on that album, there was anyone from an early track from Soft Cell, from Blumange, from Us.
Who was it, Mark? The, the. The, the.
Oh, man. So it was a compilation called Some Bizarre Album.
And so a lot of those acts after that got signed. Well, that was, you guys kind of were right at the forefront of that to me musically.
The, you know, listening to, especially that first, great band. That first, you know, This Is The Day is still just such an anthem.
It reminds me of getting my first cool haircut when I was 12. And then, but listening to that, you know, listening to you guys, listening to, and then Vince, of course, went on to form in the UK known as Yazoo and America known as Yaz with Alison Moyet.
And then he went off with Andy Bell and formed Razor as well. But you guys were right there at the forefront of all of that.
And I always wondered like, well, these are bands that not a lot of people know, but you guys weren't listening to... It was post-punk.
You've got to remember, in England, it was coming out of the ashes of... It was over.
Punk was over in England. Were you listening to Clash, though? Like, was that your thing? Well, there was the Pistols, the Clash, the Damned, Susie and the Band, all these bands were kind of even evolving

towards the end of like 77, 78,

into whatever that was coming,

or they were kind of, it was over, you know?

And we kind of, that do-it-yourself attitude,

I think, is what we bought into, you know?

Well, you guys had your own unique sound coming out of that

in the same way sort of in the punk world that like Paulul weller and the jam never really fit quite into the punk right right and and paul and then he ended up of course and you guys probably know him and he's amazing and went off and did style council but in that same way that you guys kind of took from or were were born out of a different era and then created your own genre in a way. I mean, not to put you on the spot, but because there weren't a lot of people who were making what you guys were doing.
People just started doing, and I don't, like, Bronski Beat, you know, they were doing stuff, but they came after you guys, like two years after Speak and Spell. Yeah, it's almost like we had Bono on, and we were talking about how know when all these pop stars like madonna michael jackson all these other kind of like big pop stars and here comes joshua tree this album that was so like wait what it's so alternative and then you guys came along i think in the same kind of way where it was just like it was left of center from what everybody else is listening to and back then and like we didn't We didn't really fit in any of that stuff.
Yeah, that's what I mean. It was like we always kind of were the odd band out in that there was a wave of stuff that came, but we never quite fit.
And I think that was a really good thing. And I think a lot of that was to do with Daniel Miller and his guidance in

kind of allowing us to slowly

develop into what it was we wanted to be. And by the time we got to

Black Celebration, I think we had kind of found

a bit before that, but we had found our own way, right, Mark? We'd sort of found

Yeah, it took us a while, yeah. Yeah.
And we will be right back. Solace Health is reimagining concierge health care for your entire family.
From mystery sniffles to late-night stitches, they provide peace of mind when you need it most with 24-7 care that handles medical concerns with immediacy, expertise,

and comfort. Solace is like a personal medical assistant that works with your primary care

provider and connects you with any specialist within days. They're the first and only medical

membership that's on demand 24-7 to treat everything from everyday health concerns to

middle-of-the-night emergencies. With locations across the country, same-day appointments with

little to no weight, and 24-7 telemedicine from anywhere in the world, Solace protects your busy schedule while getting you on the road to recovery. They keep their members out of the ER 95% of the time in serene and soothing comfort without the wait, crowds, or confusion.
I am a member of Solace Health, and if it wasn't for them, my pain from my kidney stone would have lasted forever.

They saved me in so many ways. I love this place.

Join Solace Health, the first and only medical membership that's on demand 24-7,

and save 15% on your first year when you use promo code SMARTLESS.

Guys, we all need to drink water every day.

I mean, we have to drink water to stay alive, right?

So why should it be boring?

Like, I like sparkling water

because it didn't have all the sugar

and the added, you know, chemicals

and everything like that that soda has.

So sparkling water gives you the bite

that you're looking for.

But with Waterloo sparkling water,

you get a little flavor in it,

like a fruit flavor.

It's so delicious.

With authentic flavors and lively carbonation,

Waterloo sparkling water brings full flavor artistry.

What's flavor artistry, you ask?

It's all about custom crafting,

multi-sensorial flavor experiences

of aroma, taste, and mouthfeel

that make you say,

wow! Waterloo waters are crafted, not formulated or off the shelf, just purified sparkling water and non-GMO project verified natural flavors with zero calories, sugar, or sweeteners. I love it because guess what? I've been open about this.
I've gotten kidney stones, so I have to stay hydrated all the time. I constantly drink water all day long, and it does get boring until Waterloo.
The flavors are so delicious.

The black cherry is delicious. I had it.
It's so yummy, and it feels so good going down.

Give Waterloo Sparkling Water a try. Look for Waterloo Sparkling Water next time you shop.

Learn more about the flavors from Waterloo Sparkling Water at drinkwaterloo.com Our show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey guys, everybody should have a support system, right? Who's your support system? My support system, as you well know, talk about it all the time, is Scotty and of course my two besties Will and Jason.
Whenever I have a problem, an issue, I talk to them about it and if they're're not available, I will talk to a therapist. And I've been going to therapy for a long time, and it's always great.
So think about your favorite leaders, mentors, and idols. They don't have all the answers, but they do know when to ask questions or seek support from their community.
In a society that glorifies hyper-independence, it's easy to forget that we're all better when we have a support system behind us. Therapy can be a source of support for any area of your life.
It's time to shift that focus from doing it all to knowing that we're better when we ask for help. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide.
Access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties. Easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost.
Build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash smartless to get 10% off your first month.
That's betterhelp.com slash smartless. And now back to the show.
Martin, so Vince, like as I alluded to, Vince leaves and goes and with Alison Moyet and goes and does, first does Yazoo. And Martin, did you, so then you started writing more because Vince had written, or were you guys equally writing or how did that happen that you sort of stepped into that position? I don't even mean to put it, I don't know how to.
No, yeah, I wrote a couple of songs on the first album. And, you know, because I was the only one who actually wrote songs when Vince left,

I kind of had to do it.

Right.

It was just like, we were like,

and Daniel literally was like,

does anybody else write songs?

Because your writer has left.

And we were like, does that mean it's over?

And his mind was like, I've got a couple of songs.

Well, I was lucky, you know,

well, the album was a very weird collection of songs because some of them I wrote when I was 16 you know and then you know some of them I was making up in the studio when we were you know when we were trying to like finish the album which album Black Salvation you mean? A Broken Frame no A Broken Frame A Broken Frame A Broken Frame okay so what was the what was the after he left and you stepped into that role, as Dave says, because everybody else was looking around going, who the fuck's going to do this? What was the first... When you started writing, what was the first sort of like big hit that you wrote and everybody's like, ah, fuck yeah, Martin, well done, man.
It was straight away, actually. First thing we recorded was See You and then you released that that as a single, and that was a massive hit.
Wow. We actually went the highest.
We'd gone in the charts, and then we went to number six. It was a big thing, and Martin had this new synthesizer called the PPG.
So we didn't use much equipment in the studio. It was like a few pieces.
Dan, you had a couple of pieces of electronic stuff. And so you kind of were very, and there was no sampling then, there was no, you know, it wasn't like, well, how, now you just kind of like, it's almost too much, like, but we picked, we had these few pieces, so this one synthesizer dominated the sort of sound, I would say, right, of that song in particular, And it was a good song.
It was a great pop song. It was like a sort of Everly Brothers song or something.
And we, you know, went on TV and it was a big hit. I think it was more Herman's Hermits.
Mrs. Brown, you've got a lovely...
I was going to say The Beatles, but I thought that was too fast. Give us a break.
We were young. My grandparents used to have a Herman's Herman's record for some reason.
We used to play it when we were kids. Do you remember that Mrs.
Brown, You've Got a Lovely Daughter? Yes. Yeah.
Fucking hell. You've got to remember, I was only 10 when this was happening.
Are you guys so shocked that your song Just Can't Get Enough is used everywhere, always, all the time? It could be anything. It's a tampon ad.
It's like in the cocaine bear. It's like, you know, come on.
It is. It fits.
It fits everywhere. Yeah, it does.
I mean, of all your songs, I really do know probably every word to every song. And I'm like, that's the song everybody plays everywhere? I know.
Wait, what? You know, it's funny. When Vince wrote that song, I think we were, the first publisher that he had, we were at the offices, and I think Rod Buckle, remember Mark? I seem to remember him saying, he said something like this to the rest of us.
We were sitting on the couch all kind of squashed together and he looked at Vince and he said, he is going to be driving a Rolls Royce while you three are on the tandem. And we were like, you know, on the bicycle.
You know, like, we were like, why? Like, it was, and we all signed this deal. I think he gave us 100 quid each for, like, to sign our publishing or waiting.
He did. Really? So we were like, he's giving us 100 quid for nothing.
You know what I'm saying? Wow. We can buy a tandem for that.
Yeah, we were like, yeah, we will buy that tandem. But Vince, you know, he told Vince, you know, you'll be driving in a Rolls Royce.
And he said, this song is going to continue like forever going to be there and we were just kind of like don't think so but yeah but we were very impressed because he took us out for lunch and Errol Brown from Hot Chocolate was in the same restaurant yes that's right I remember that do you remember the band Hot Chocolate? No. You guys are two guys.
I believe in Lucas. Oh, yeah.
Hot Chocolate, they were called. That's the band? We were like, holy shit, there's Errol Brown from Hot Chocolate.
So you have some hits in the UK, obviously. What was your first recognition in the US that you knew that people were listening

to the band in the US?

Well, I think that Just Can't Get Enough

did get some underground play,

like obviously club play and stuff like that.

But I think the first radio thing

was probably People Are People.

Yeah, it was huge.

And it was still like really underground.

It was, we were never really played

on mainstream radio.

Right.

And then talk about, like, first of all, just a sidebar. I used to get, I look like exactly like Dave Ghan all the time in college.
People like, you look just like Dave Ghan. I could see that.
And this is a picture of me. Oh, yeah.
Wow. Wow.
You could. You're better looking though.
You got better cheekbones. No, no, no, no.
The Rose Bowl, wasn't that just life, career changing when you sold out the Rose Bowl to everybody? That was later. It was a very happy accident, to be honest.
It was. But it blew everybody's mind.
I remember the press was like, wait, what? 60,000. It blew our minds.
I mean, we were not prepared, really. It was one of those things that I think it was suggested to us that we could do this at the end of that particular tour, Music for the Masses tour, a big show somewhere where all the fans would travel, like in a Grateful Dead way.
Like we kind of had that kind of following. And they did.
There was people in it, but we ended up doing it, and D.A. Penny Baker filmed the whole thing for us, which was also kind of iconic to be now looking back.
I see pictures from then. I see Penny's not with us anymore, but we used to think he was extremely old.
Like when we were on that tour and he was, you know, documenting the whole thing with us, he was like this old guy. We used to sort of like help him around the stage, you know.
But be careful with that 35-millimeter. You're going to fall over, dude.
He was like maybe 50. I don't know.
And we were like, he's so old. Like this guy, who's this guy? And he was just amazed with what he was amazed with, really the music or anything it was the the scale it was just it was the fans it was kind of the fandom yeah it was the fandom it was like the cult of of of the following that we had why are they obsessed with this band and to still to this day there is that same we carry that same, it's like, you know, the Church of Depeche Mode or something, you know.
Yeah, I love that. Does that feel heavy sometimes? Or is it something that changes your relationship to it? Does it kind of shift? No, I mean, one thing I've realized recently, though, is like, you know, fan and soccer fans always think they know better than the manager of the team they support.
Oh, yeah. We get that.
So our fans, you go on any of the forums, all of our fans, they're always complaining. They're never happy with what we do.
They're basically Arsenal supporters like Martin. Wait, Martin, are you an Arsenal supporter? I am.
So you're from, did you grow up in North London then? No, East London. I should have been a West Ham.
I thought you were going to be West Ham. Yeah, I should have been a West Ham supporter, but no.
You know, you make a decision when you're like nine or ten, don't you? And you stick with it. You can't change.
Where we came from, it was like Arsenal, West Ham or Chelsea, basically. That was kind of like...
Dave, are you a football supporter? I was a Chelsea fan. Oh, really? And I stopped going to Chelsea after getting a total beating, actually, at Arsenal, away at Arsenal.
I got chased down the street by a bunch of Arsenal fans. Ended up rolling underneath a car to escape death.
I just got such a beating. I think I was about 15 or so.
It was the last time I went to it. I led them away, by the way.
You finally led them away. Martin's done that a few times for me, by the way.
You showed them where he was at first, and then you're like, this is too much. I just read this book by this writer, Bill Buford, called Among the Thugs, which is about, I don't know if you ever read that.
Yeah, that was it. The Chelsea crew were called the Crazy Gang.
And it was basically people went to soccer to fight. That was kind of what it was.
It was, there was this huge, and it got scary. It got really, it got really to the point where it was very dangerous.
There's a that Gary Oldham's in actually The Firm The Firm I've seen it that's very much what it was about the West Ham supporters about those it was Chelsea supporters and West Ham supporters I think Millwall too like Millwall Millwall that's tough that's tough South yeah man hey guys where did the I just remember always being so taken by the mood you guys set with your music and also just your stagecraft. The whole aesthetic of the band, it is so sort of – I don't know what the right term would be.

Dramatic, cinematic.

Yeah, but I mean I don't remember that – anybody blazing a trail before you guys in that world. There's many, many sort of people that try to replicate that since then, for sure.
But where did that come from? Was that deliberate? Or was it just kind of where you guys were at? Were you inspired by something? I think we were lucky when we wrote Black Celebration that we got involved with Anton Corbyn,

who became the visual head for the band.

Who's that? I'm an idiot.

He's an incredible director.

He directs a lot of videos, yeah.

But he's a film director.

He's a very tall Dutch man.

He started out as a photographer.

Okay.

But he makes films now.

For the NME, New Musical Express in London, he got to be the front cover guy that would do the covers of that paper. It would always be like this amazing photograph of Joy Division or Echo and the Bunnymen or Susie Sue from the Banshees, and they always were Anton's shots.
Wow. So the chances of us kind of at that time working with Anton were pretty slim, but the first time we worked with him, I think it was 81, actually, and then we didn't work with him again until, what, 85, Mark? 86, Black Celebration, yeah.
81, we got the cover of the NME and Anton was shooting it. He had to shoot us.
He had to shoot us. I don't think he really wanted to because he was very cool and we weren't.
And, you know, I mean, we were trying to be cool. And did he style that shoot in such a way that you guys sort of borrowed from and adopted going forward? I think it sort of began there, even though we weren't probably aware of it.
But by the time we, like Martin said, by the time we got to Black Celebration, we had been working in Berlin, Hanser Studios, the very famous, iconic Hanser, where Bowie had recorded, and Iggy and various other people that we looked up to and were influenced by. And I think that's where it really started for us.
Martin had moved to Berlin as well for a short period of time there as well. And we started working there a lot.
West Berlin. This was West Berlin as well when the wall was very much still up.
And we used to work right, there was a studio called Hansa, it was right on the wall. So when you were on the balcony of the studio, you literally were looking over the wall and you'd see these soldiers, you know, hence the Bowie's line in Heroes, but about, you know, the wall, I think.
Heroes always reminds me of Christian F. Remember that film in West in west berlin it was on the soundtrack yeah yeah that's a great film do you guys also there's also and i'm sorry for the dumb dumb question and you guys have probably answered this a billion times but i don't know is there why the religious undertones so many of them uh i don't know they just it's spirituality right mark they both just started? They both just heard sweating.
I know. I've never, I've never been religious.
No. I'm always searching.
You know, aren't we all, aren't we all always searching? Yeah, sure. And then it's this, I feel often, especially when I'm singing Martin's words, and there's this kind of also, sometimes it's like a, it is is it can be like an experience that when you're singing and sometimes you're kind of in a big place like we just did the garden and or whatever like and you certain gigs that you do um it's this sort of experience it is like a sort of i don't know spiritual experience it's something that's there and it's also i have a kind of disdain for it too it feels like you know uh like a lot of bollocks at the same time i mean you even sort of take it i mean i've always loved blasphemous rumors because i just love that lyric i don't want to start any blasphemors, but I think that God's got a six sense of humor.
And when I die, I expect to find him laughing. I've just, I've always been obsessed.
People miss the comedy, see. They miss the comedy in what we do.
They just sort of miss the humor from Martin, and they miss the delivery from Dave. It's all there.
there you just got to look a little deeper the only reason I brought it up because I love the comment and the cleverness of the the language that you choose it's really cool but then it also did fit into Jason kind of what you were asking about into the the aesthetic sort of yeah yeah it became and you get that you get that I think we like that i think we're comfortable in that imagery a bit of theater and and yeah yeah well what was it about the writing though dave that that always sort of kind of presented a block for you because obviously you're a very intelligent man know how to speak know how to write i'm sure and then tell stories and whatnot but when it comes to lyrics um is it and martin i'm sure you can speak better to this too is is there an attempt to tell a story when you write a lyric or just to set some poetry that then obviously the music comes later to fit that or vice versa what was the what was the thing that kept you away from it early on dave well in the early days and also you a lot, even now when we're singing a lot of these great songs that Martin's written, they always change too. They change over the years, depending what's going on in your life.
They represent something different and they take their memories, songs and memories, you know, and they're there and And they were also to develop new memories. Songs are memories, you know.
And they're there. And they're there also to develop new memories of yet to come, you know.
But I feel like if you really tap into a good song when you're writing and there's something, and it doesn't, you know, you kind of have to work at it sometimes. But sometimes if you really let go of control of the lyric or whatever and allow something to just, you know, it's a combination of things that might happen at the same time, you could just follow the idea, you know.
It's just allow it to just, you know. And other things you have to kind of like, you know, move.
When we're working in a studio together, for instance, if Martin's, you know, is always writing the majority of the songs, I try and create, I work with a song for a long time before I actually go to finally sing it. So I want to live with that song for a long time.
And when I step up to the mic, I already know where I want to go with it and it's always somewhere visual.

It's a visual voice.

But the melody that perhaps you've written to go with it

or chosen to go with it,

I would imagine would inform what words work

or what words don't work anymore.

It can.

They serve each other

and a lot of the time it's about removing stuff.

We did that a lot on this record.

There's a lot of clutter that you automatically put in place

Thank you. and a lot of the time it's about removing stuff.
We did that a lot on this record. There's a lot of clutter that you automatically put in place because you think it's supposed to be there, but quite often it's removing things to allow a simple idea to really come through.
All right, and I love almost all your melodies that you guys write. You think it's going to go to the obvious one that the ear is familiar with, and boonk, you take a left turn.
That's Martin. He'll take one of my songs, for instance, that we were working, say, a song like Wagging Tongue, which is on this record, and I sent my little demo to Martin of me, like, ham-fistedly playing on a guitar, trying to get the song out and find the chords, and I send it to my and then martin sends it back with this beautiful like craft work-esque like you know chords and and arpeggiating synths and stuff and i'm like oh okay yeah i love it but then that takes me then to another place you see right changes the perception yet again i'm sure it's the same with you guys when you're working in film and behind or in front of the camera.
Yes, and. You know, you feed off an audience in theater, I'm sure, and then when you're just in a room together and you've got a bunch of crews standing around you, and you've got to create it for yourself.
Otherwise, there's just this bunch of crew around you. Well, I know.
Well, it is true that I can speak because the three of us, I've worked with both these guys, and none of us really sort of come in prepared in the sense that we don't fully have it memorized a certain way. You can't.
You have to kind of have a loose relationship with whatever you're doing because so much of it is informed by what the other person is bringing. You sort of leave room for the effect of the other.
Yeah, yeah, like that's a... By the way, Will, can I just really quick, and then we'll get off this.
Jay, I'm going to send you this song because it's one of their most famous songs. It's such an old song.
It's called Somebody. But you'll love it because, and I love this because the dum-dums didn't quite get it back then about the comment you know it's i want somebody to share share the rest of my life share my innermost thoughts know my intimate details like it goes on and on this gorgeous lyrics about sharing your life with somebody and the last lyrics at the end is um though things like this make me sick in a case like this i'll get away with it which completely obliterates the whole song and like as a kid I was like wait a minute I was about to cry because love is bollocks that's why love is bollocks it still gets played at lots and lots of weddings so Martin's just having a laugh at everybody else's expense.
So for a dummy music listener like me, I always struggle to hear what the words, what did they say? And I'll back it up. I'll screw it.
I'll just listen. Martin, have you ever had a point where you've gone to Dave and you said, this is a beautiful line and I can't understand what you're're saying.
Enunciate more, or don't just mumble that. He's done that for sure.
Right? Where you're sort of missing this word structure that you're doing. It depends how drunk you are, you see.
There's that tipping point, you know. We all know the tipping point.
It's great, and then it's not great anymore. You know, back in in the day we were lucky that we sorted something out before you actually had to do a guide vocal in the studio because there's a track that didn't go on the album that's coming later in the year and it's called Life 2.0 and what did you think it was called Dave? Oh yeah Do yeah.
Do you? No. Live, what was it, Mark? I forgot.
Live to... Live to...
To perform or something? I don't know. Live to...
I think I even wrote it down. I wrote down because when Mark sent me the song, he often doesn't send the words.
He'll send a demo or whatever. and so i kind of listen life to prolong life to prolong that was it life to prolong i was like okay all right

life to prolong i don't think anyone's ever used the word prolong in a song that's pretty cool

dave dave when you're dave when you're performing it later in the in the year you've got to or if

you're performing it now on stage you've got to get the audience going saying life to prolong

I'm so sorry. Dave, when you're performing it later in the year, you've got to, or if you're performing it now on stage,

you've got to get the audience going saying live to prolong.

That can happen.

I said the other night, let's go Knicks, you know,

because at the end of Everything Counts,

I just shouted out in the garden, let's go Knicks!

A lot of people sighed.

Oh, that must have gone big.

We'll be right back. Do you need a haircut right now? Supercuts thinks you just might.
A haircut is the kind of thing that sneaks up on you sort of like your creepy uncle. Before you know it, you're three weeks late and probably the last person to realize it.
Well, says Supercuts, it's time to stop needing a haircut right now. How do you stop needing a haircut right now? However you like.
If it's a reasonable hour, you can just walk into any Supercuts, no appointment needed, or you can check in ahead at supercuts.com at a time that works for you. Or you can do both, check in ahead and then walk right in and see if that interrupts the space-time continuum.
It probably won't. But if it does, at least you'll look pretty fresh for posterity.
And eternity. With more than 23 million haircuts a year and nearly 40,000 five-star Google reviews a month, Supercuts is doing something right.
Get $2 off when you join their email list at supercuts.com and then get your butts back to Supercuts right now. There are a lot of beaches out there, guys,

but there's only one people call the beach.

Myrtle Beach, South Carolina,

is made up of 14 coastal communities

and 60 miles of sunny beaches.

Together, they create a place

that makes you feel like you belong.

The beach is 60 miles of bringing people together. Myrtle Beach is where you can be your best beach and self.
Shine and dine in a foodie haven with oceanfront patios, fresh seafood, low country classics, and southern favorites. Listen to live music any day of the year, outside at laid-back beach bars, at world-renowned theaters, or right on the boardwalk.
Keep the whole family happy and having fun with over a thousand attractions to choose from. You belong at The Beach, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
Plan your trip to The Beach at visitmyrtlebeach.com. The start of a new year is the perfect time to get organized, set goals, and prioritize what matters most.
If financial wellness is a top priority for you in the new year, Rocket Money is here to help. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.
Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. They automatically scan your bills to find opportunities to save, and then from there, you can ask them to negotiate for you.
They'll deal with customer service so you don't have to. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features.
Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash smartless today.
That's rocketmoney.com slash smartless. Rocketmoney.com slash smartless.
All right, back to the show. did I hear you say that it got kind of Kraftwerk-esque? Did you say? Yes, yes.
It's so funny because you're like the third band that's referenced Kraftwerk, and I was just listening to Tour de France this morning as well, which is such a, I love that tune. And I think it was, Jay, when you had the boys from Radiohead were talking about Kraftwerk as well like it was just what an influential band these guys were it's unbelievable well they were probably instrumental in Martin getting a synth I would imagine in the first place yeah and yeah we were talking about the early bands that influenced us you know we mentioned that wave that was coming up with us but they were obviously way before that you know autobahn was like 74 yeah yeah wow man that's wild i think daniel as well daniel miller like he's sort of once he cut his influence he was listening to you know he's a little bit older than us so there was like noi and there was all these like german kind of those that kind, Mark, that like, we wouldn't have probably heard really if it wasn't for him.
And it's that sort of Kraut rock that was called, that stuff as well. A lot of like Waiting for the Night to Fall, for instance, has got that continuous kind of like rolling progression all the time.
These influences definitely, we were lucky to work with a lot of people, engineers, producers, people that were all on that cusp as well of wanting to do something new with pop music. Well, you guys had that.
You guys also embodied that too, Martin. That sort of, like you said, Dave, that progression.
You guys understood the importance of it that sort of drove so many of your songs. Atmosphere.
Atmosphere and almost hypnotic, right? Atmosphere over a lot of other things sometimes. We would go around with like tape machines into like scrapyards or building sites and record like weird shit, noises that you heard.
Everything Counts has all that stuff at the start, right? Yeah, I don't even know what that was now. What was that? It was like a saw or something.
Right? That was like a Chinese violin that was badly sung. Oh, yes.
That we couldn't play. It was an instrument that we couldn't play that you just made a bit of a title.
Jason, did you want to hear me say that again? Yeah, no, I think we got it. You guys are uniquely qualified to comment about where we find the music industry today.
And are you guys a big fan or is it a love hate with what technology and digital and all that

stuff has has done as far as the way in which music is sold nowadays and what that's done to

the touring business and whatnot because you guys obviously have the best of both worlds i mean you're

still playing madison square garden and you're still selling albums but so how how does all

that sit with you today's current uh makeup of the business sorry and be honest yeah i mean we we came up good and bad right we came up at teams and i mean it was like albums vinyl you know getting that record getting you know going to having enough money to go buy a 45 or 70 like you know, you know, which was, I think, at the time when I, I mean, first probably 45p or whatever that was, like something like that. You know, to go, you stole it from somewhere and you got, you went to the market and you looked through the singles and looked at the covers and go, this one looks weird and interesting.
And what is this? Of course, we had one show in England, like this TV called Top of the Pops, where on Thursday nights or whatever, you'd see music like Bowie and Gary Glitter and Slade and T-Rex and all these sort of 70s things, Roxy Music. That was a thing, that was like where you get lost in it.
But I think the album, you know, the album, I know Martin does as well, we both still play albums and buy albums and stuff, but, you know, and listen to music digitally too. Something has been lost, of course, in that, the specialness of an album, you know, and listen to that how you play one side and then turn it over and you've got to actually make the effort you know to do something right right yeah like i love that yeah see i remember that too sitting in a room and and putting a wreck taking it out of the sleeve and putting it on remember Remember that? The smell of it, you know.
And you'd have a cleaner. You'd have the duster thing.
The brush. You'd let it go around and clean off the needle and drop the needle on it and sit there.
And maybe you would have lyrics. Sometimes if a record came out you were waiting for and it had lyrics, you were like, man, this one's got lyrics.
That was so, I mean, the Bowie stuff was like, I remember I stole from my friend Phil Gurry. I was around his house and he had, Martin knows Phil Gurry, and I was around his flat and he had the double live, David Live at the Philadelphia Tower album.
And I opened it up and I saw that this lyric sheet, like the sleeve fell out and I was just kind of like sitting there and he went off to the toilet or something for a minute and when he was gone, I took it, I folded it up and I shoved it in my jacket and I was like, stole, stole. I would steal everything if it wasn't tied down, by the way.
But I stole this and I got it home and I had the lyrics myself and everything and about a week later, Phil was like, I know you stole my lyrics. You know, I denied it.
But, you know, that's how special it was to have something like that. Because you couldn't look it up, you know.
I had a roommate in college who was obsessed with albums and I took his Beethoven, what was that group? Beethoven, Camper Beethoven. Camper Van Beethoven.
Let the skinheads. Camper Van Beethoven.
Take the skinheads bowling. Yeah, and I took that took that i was really i was sitting in his room we were listening to albums and i took the jacket and i was so hot and i took the album jacket and i started fanning myself and completely bent the whole thing and he never heard from him again wouldn't talk to me again i remember i remember how this is i have have so many different record memories.

The one that I remember when

that first Simple Minds record came out

and they did a clear record.

Do you remember that?

And then it came out and it was clear.

We have a red vinyl right now.

Memento Mori is in red.

Yeah, so Memento Mori.

Oh, that's cool.

Do you really?

It came out in red vinyl.

Yeah, it's in red.

There's a clear one as well.

There's a clear one and there's a red one, 180 gram, like, yeah, it's cool. It's really cool.
Well, now I'm going to buy it, because now I'm going to come full circle. So you have this record that came out.
By the way, I was just thinking about the video that I just saw also has, like, sort of, like, I guess religious, I mean, you guys are in a graveyard. Yes, well, it's a bit camp too.
Come on, let's face it. I'm crawling around on my hands and knees in the graveyard.
Martin's sitting playing, oh so thoughtfully, his guitar. I'm crawling around him like, yeah.
Sniff the glove. Yeah, so we have to, when Anton Corbin says to me, so, Dave, so, Dave, I want you to, you know, get on hands on knees, crawl around graveyard on the floor.
You know, this graveyard's just, like, set up in a studio, by the way, as well, of course, and it looks already very, very kind of like, as soon as we get there, we're like, this is, this looks like, really, like, somebody set this up. And he's like, yes, I know, I want it to look kind of fake, Dave.
And I was like, okay. So he's the only person that would get me to do something like that.
And I think we did about 20 takes of me crawling around. I'm surprised he didn't do that, actually.
Snap the leash. Yes.
The only way we got away with it is because I'm the one crawling around, of course. If we had some beautiful girl or guy to do that or something, we would be in big trouble now.
Sure, sure. That's what I see.
I have a question. How do you guys determine who sings what track? It's kind of obvious sometimes.
Yeah, I think it's usually obvious. Yeah, just because of where the range is? Yeah, I mean, well, Soul With Me on this album, I thought to myself, Martin would just be able to sing that song much better than me.
We have a different tone, a different way we sing. But together, it's just unbelievable.
I used to get bent out of shape a bit. I used i used to years ago i wanted to sing everything and i used to feel like it was but you know my voice wasn't good enough and that's why martin would sing a couple of songs i mean always yeah that was back in the years ago but um now now i don't it was you know what it means you got a break on stage as well yeah i, I get a break too.
I can't, it's a two-hour set plus.

I mean, I need that 10 minutes or so in the middle

to sort of get some oxygen.

But isn't that funny?

And I'll say this to all of us,

all gentlemen over 50,

isn't that funny you get to this age

and you're like all the things that used to sort of,

you take personally or bother you or whatever.

It's so stupid.

Oh, fuck, who gives a shit?

It's so stupid. Yeah, I'd rather take the break.
I'd rather take the break. Yeah, I will take the break for sure.
And now what are you doing on your breaks nowadays, like at the garden during your 10 minutes versus what you were doing 30, 40 years ago during your 10-minute break? Has that changed backstage? That's changed a lot. Because for Jason and me, it's changed a lot.
We don't partake anymore. Right, we probably squeezed in a nap, whereas back in the old days...
Yeah, we would have been, you know. Looking for something to just get a little bit more electricity into that set, you know.
Was that fun, playing the garden? That must have been fantastic. Oh, my God.
It always is. It's the Church of New York, isn't it?

Sure.

Let's face it.

Oh, they must have gone nuts.

No, we've been lucky enough to play there a lot of times over the years.

It's always one of those gigs that you're, you know,

it's the anticipation and everything about it.

I was lucky enough this time as well,

my daughter's band, Stella Rose and the Dead Language,

we had them open for us. Nice was oh that's cool yeah the nepotism was off the charts but yeah good good who gives a shit on this nepo baby i don't give a fucking shit about the nepo baby you do it if you could too by the way here's the other man.
That is a great name for a band. I know.
Napa Baby? No, Stella Rose with the dead language. The dead language.
The dead language is fucking great. They're pretty cool, too.
They're, like, way cooler than us. Wow.
But we were the headline in Acts, so... Yeah, yeah.
Because it's me, I have to ask,

have you ever been approached or would you ever do,

from the ground up with new songs, a Broadway musical?

We did get asked once.

Somebody had this idea and they showed us a script.

But it was all about like a bunch of heroin addicts.

Five, six, seven, eight. So, you know, we politely turned it down.
Jason and I would like to, and Sean's going to, you know, obviously going to run and going to direct and stuff and it's about a bunch of middle-aged white guy golfers. You got something there for sure.
You definitely got something there. I just want to say before we let you guys go, because this has been absolutely mind-blowingly incredible.
Sean, and this is really Sean to you. Can you believe, what would you say, Sean? Can you believe that the college is you? You guys, I can't even describe it.
I have to tell you guys right now to your faces, this is the honest to God truth. I'm doing a show here in New York, Broadway show.
And every day that I walk to the theater, sometimes I get a ride, sometimes I walk. Every time I walk, I listen to you guys.
I literally, as I'm walking, I'll go, hey, Siri, play Depeche Mode. I'm on my eye.
And tell them the Broadway show is about a heroin addict. Yeah, that's a true story though, you guys.
And I want to say this before you leave. Such a massive, massive influence on me and my life in such a huge way.
Just incredible. Thank you for saying that.
Thank you so much. The posters up in college and the concerts I've been to to see you.
It's just everywhere. It's just I can't g it out.
I mean, there's a cool thing about what we get to do, that we get to do is that over the years that we get to hear from somebody like you or, you know, other artists, other musicians and stuff where what we've done somehow has influenced, like, them to do what they do. Yeah.
And, you know, this is how it goes around, and that's, I think, an amazing thing about music and film and stuff like that, how it can, you know, can be the soundtrack to our lives. For sure.
I mean, it's inside of my DNA now. And when you guys just popped on screen here, I was shaking.
Yeah. And Sean, I mean, can you, what I was going to say was, what would college Sean Hayes say to this moment? Like, what would you? I know.
Well, I would be an idiot and be so over the top and trying to be funny. And then you guys would be like, that guy's too much.
And then you would move on. We would probably let you hang out, actually.
We'd probably let you hang out. If he was entertaining for a bit, you would have been hanging out with us.
A bit is being kind. Yeah.
Well, you've been the soundtrack to so many millions of people's lives and you're both such great guys on top of it all. What an absolute just pleasure and honor to meet both of you.
And great, you know, congratulations on the new record of the tour. I really want to come and see you guys.
Yeah. Are you in LA in September, right? We're coming.
We just finished a little run in the States, but we're coming back, yeah, I think September, October, November, December. We're doing a much bigger North American tour.
We're off to Europe now. I will definitely be there.
We're going to come and see you guys. Oh, please, yeah.
You know, thanks for having us on your show. It's really...

Yeah, thank you. This has been a dream

come true. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, honestly. All three

of you in some way, shape, or form

also have been

in my life, so I can say that

honestly. We apologize.
And we don't

always have to say that

honestly as well, but

you know, but I mean that

sincerely. Thank you.
It's very nice of you guys

to do this podcast for us. Cheers, guys.

Oh, My God. Well, are you guys all right? I mean, I was really honestly truly shaking.
Like I haven't done that since. Sean, are you sitting on plastic? Did you lay down some plastic? Scotty just under frame lay down some plastic for you? That's why Scotty came in in the middle.
Yeah. Not since the Michael Jackson concert in 1983 was I shaking.
Oh, my God. I mean, they really, I really honestly swear to God, listen to them every day.
No, I know. That's crazy.
It's unbelievable. Why is that? Is that something that kind of gets you going for the show? I think a lot of, I don't want to bring this up, but I think a lot of like, they have a big gay following.
And I think because it was, they were cool and underground and like left of center and they weren't like machismo hard big hair rocking you know yeah there was something kind of interestingly glam about them kind of like bowie was beforehand yeah sean i sean i get that i think i mean it's not a gay straight thing or anything it's just i had a lot of gay friends in college that we found this band and were like, oh, they're so cool. I think I know what you mean.

And there were some bands that sort of came.

Certainly Erasure were a band that were big in gay culture back in the 80s.

Right, because I guess a lot of the Depeche Mode songs

were turned into dance songs and they would play them in the clubs.

Oh, that's interesting.

And so I think like Personal Jesus, everyone knows Personal Jesus.

You know, all those earlier songs, a dance uh beat that you can dance to and so uh they turn those into club mixes and i think that's probably one of the reasons we're like oh what's this band it's so cool plus they were like dark would it be funny if i got a personal assistant named jesus no why would that be funny because then i'd have a personal jesus oh wow i'm slow today it's a long walk around the block but boy the address is nice but uh just blown away and there was a they're a huge part of my life yeah yeah same i have so many it's kind of like when we've had other but for these guys I have those markers in my mind of where I was when that came out just can't get enough personal Jesus blasphemous rumors all those things people are people just like you know. Yeah.
Jay, you would know like.

No, all those you just mentioned, I know.

Yeah.

No, I'm very, very aware of Depeche Mode.

I just, I wasn't, I didn't have the glow stick in my teeth like you did, Sean and Will.

You know, just fucking like.

How was I supposed to find my way home?

Just can't get enough, you know.

You know, you can't believe before Jason really got into classical music,

you'd get in his car with him.

I'm not kidding.

And the fucking music that Jason would listen to.

Thank you. You know, you can't believe before Jason really got into classical music, you'd get in his car with him.
I'm not kidding. And the fucking music that Jason would listen to.
I know some of it. It would be so random.
Not necessarily bad, but it would be like random and some would be brutal. By the way, I got into it with a woman on Instagram about two months ago.
Sean, maybe I told you because she was saying, it's actually you're thinking of Yazoo, it's not Yaz. said no in north america yazoo was called yaz for legal reasons and i had to school her because i was like don't fucking correct me anyway what was soft cells big hit so uh tainted love tainted love yeah yeah yeah i listened to that too and i love classic rock but i also loved so much of i loved bronski beat uh you know i fucking just loved it so much i loved all those bands i loved and of course depeche mode um i don't know um but you know like when they first came on i was looking here we go boy man i tell you something i tell you something you know what it is it's a look in your eye and it's you kind of take a breath yeah when you're looking here comes So thank God I had my glasses on when they came on because I couldn't believe my eyes.
So I thank God I saw them with my reading part of my lower glasses, which is sometimes called... What's the other glasses called? Don't go up high.
Bye. Boal.
Vocal. Oh, my goodness.

Bye.

That's so vocal.

That's a Depeche Mode version of goodbye, right?

It's Martin taking it left instead of right.

That's right.

Bye.

Vocals.

Bye.

Smart.

Less.

Smart. Less.
Smartless. Smartless.
Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjarf, Bennett Barbaco, and Michael Grantary. Smart Less.
first to hear new episodes ad-free and a whole week early, subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit SiriusXM.com slash podcasts plus to start your free trial today. There's a moment you realize you're ready for what's next in your career.
Maybe it's when you're trying a new scone recipe and think, I could open a cafe. Or maybe you're helping a coworker and say, I could teach a course on this.
Whatever your moment is, it's never too early to plan for a career that lives longer. That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP.
For skills training, resume tips, and job listings, visit aarp.org slash work. SmartList is brought to you by Audi.
It's not every day you get excited by a new car, but the all-new Audi Q6 e-tron is more than a new EV. It's a new way to experience driving.
Embrace the thrill of the drive with effortless power, serious acceleration, and the most advanced tech of any Audi ever. With an all-new panoramic digital stage and legendary Audi performance, it's impossible not to love the all-new Audi Q6 e-tron.

I should know. I drive one.

Learn more at AudiUSA.com.