"Joaquin Phoenix"

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Speaker 1 Hey, everybody, welcome. Do you love comedy? Do you love to laugh?

Speaker 3 Well, buckle up because you're going to fucking cry your eyes out.

Speaker 1 Welcome to Smartless. Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 Hi, everybody.

Speaker 3 Oh, Sean, what a nice top you have on this morning.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, it's look at.
What's it say? I can't read it. It says, it says Smartless.

Speaker 3 Haze 20.

Speaker 2 It says Hayes on the back.

Speaker 1 It's our back.

Speaker 3 So Hayes 20, what does it say, 22 on the back? 26, 26.

Speaker 1 26, that's her birth date, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so it's a smartless shirt.

Speaker 3 You can guess we're going to get the freaking merch plug right at the top.

Speaker 1 Yep, right there.

Speaker 2 It's right there. I'm wearing it.

Speaker 1 It's good to know that we make it in a double XL, too. Yeah, good for you.
You know what I mean? It's good. You got both boobs stuck right in there.
Yeah, right. Bang, bang.
Pow, pow.

Speaker 2 How's everybody feeling?

Speaker 1 Is everybody a little sleepy today? Yeah, a little sleepy. A little right.

Speaker 1 I could feel that.

Speaker 2 I could feel that.

Speaker 2 Yesterday, I saw him in Tech Week.

Speaker 1 Oh, well, this is probably going to air after we open.

Speaker 3 Well, what's Tech Week for what are you talking about? Are you doing a play

Speaker 1 at Tabasco?

Speaker 2 So at the Tabasco Theater.

Speaker 3 It's so spicy, this show, y'all.

Speaker 1 You got to go check it out.

Speaker 1 Stupid.

Speaker 2 Anyway, the Belasco Theater, David Belasco was the owner. And this I just found out yesterday.
And couldn't wait to share it with you guys.

Speaker 1 Actually, last night.

Speaker 2 Because we're working like 12, 14 hour days, whatever it is.

Speaker 2 And well, I don't know how many hours, but it's long hours.

Speaker 1 Seems like you do know them. Yeah.
And

Speaker 2 so the screw guy comes because everybody has these stories because there's an apartment on top of the theater.

Speaker 1 What's that? Oh, the crew guy, I thought you said. The crew guy, yeah.

Speaker 2 The crew guy, there's an apartment on the top of the theater.

Speaker 1 The screw guy came, and I'm like, oh, these guys got a screw guy.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 2 I'm like, screw guy, please. And they just send one over right away.

Speaker 1 Scottie send him over the screw guy. So the screw guy gets there.

Speaker 3 Oh, speaking of which,

Speaker 3 Scotty got his cue.

Speaker 1 He walked by just as I said, the screw guy. Anyway.
I like seeing Scotty go by. I just shuffle by any shorts.
And there you go. So anyway.

Speaker 2 Okay. So the screw guy told me about this story because it's supposed to be haunted in Belarus sometimes.

Speaker 2 And so David Belasco, who owned the theater years and years and years ago, there's this apartment on top of the theater that's now abandoned and nothing's up there.

Speaker 2 But he used to live there and there was an elevator shaft where he used to bring up, you know, lady friends over and over, right?

Speaker 2 And so one of the ladies fell through the elevator shaft and died. It's now like boarded up.
And people say, and they call her lady in blue because people say they can see her in the seats sometimes.

Speaker 3 How do you fall through an elevator shaft?

Speaker 2 I guess it was open and that there was no elevator, I guess.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Boy.
There was an episode of LA Law once. I'm not making it up.

Speaker 1 Where the guys were, I swear to God, it was on the, I just saw a clip of it recently, and they're having a conversation by the elevator door, and this woman speaks really tersely to the guy.

Speaker 1 She's like, so you better watch out, blah, blah, blah. And the elevator door is open.
She walks into the elevator shaft and falls, plunges to her death. And the guy's like, Oh my God.
It was on TV.

Speaker 1 And that writer's room is like, How are we going to, what are we going to do in this episode? How are we going to

Speaker 1 doors open and she just falls through, just like the lady in blue?

Speaker 3 Yeah, Sean, have you hit fuck it yet on this on this play?

Speaker 1 So, I mean, it's a long run, right? It's been taxing for Jason and both Jason and me. It's been a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 I mean, so, but you haven't even started performances yet.

Speaker 3 You've been whacking away at it for how long now? You've already done it in Chicago for months and months and months. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Now, because it's so good and was so well received, you take it to New York, to the hot and spicy Tabasco, and you're in rehearsals right now. You haven't gotten to the point of like, it's enough.

Speaker 2 No, I mean,

Speaker 3 you're discovering new things about it every day, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you do kind of. Surprise guests just mentioned, just

Speaker 1 messaged us and said, this is really interesting.

Speaker 2 Interesting. So maybe we should just start.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 I think he, it's a he, has got comments on this too. Should we get right to him?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I guess so. I mean, by the way, should we mention the play is open now?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I guess the play is open now by the time.

Speaker 1 The play is open now in New York at the Velasco. Wait, what's it called? What's the play called? Okay.

Speaker 3 And did I like it on opening night?

Speaker 2 You would love it. It's called Good Night, Oscar.

Speaker 1 Okay, there it is. All right.

Speaker 3 Good night. Is there a comma in there?

Speaker 2 There is after night. And good night, I didn't know is two words.

Speaker 1 I thought it was one word. And if you find yourself at the theater, watch out for a gaping shaft.

Speaker 3 Oh, boy.

Speaker 3 I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 3 We got to put that on the Sean list. So you thought good night was one word.

Speaker 1 I did.

Speaker 2 Didn't you think it was one word?

Speaker 3 Probably not. Just like good morning.

Speaker 3 Has good morning ever been one word?

Speaker 1 You know what else, listener?

Speaker 3 Hang on, Sean. Listener, Sean

Speaker 3 was shocked to learn that

Speaker 3 John F. Kennedy was not shot in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 1 In the last episode.

Speaker 3 Yeah, because it's stunning to me. You know what else, listener, is stunning about Sean? He was really surprised that Beatles, the

Speaker 1 group, the band. No.

Speaker 2 I'm not the only one that thought, that didn't know meant beat on a drum.

Speaker 1 B-E-A-T.

Speaker 1 Sean, I'm just noticing you're in your place in New York right now, and you guys, you've been there for a month now, but you don't, in the last couple of years, you haven't spent a time there. No.

Speaker 1 But in that back shelf there, did you guys go to Knickknacks or Us and just

Speaker 1 load up on the Knickknacks? That's a real Chotsky haven.

Speaker 1 Hey, Knickknack patio actor. There's a guy up there.

Speaker 3 There's a spider fern, too, up there on his own little...

Speaker 1 That's nice, though. That's fair real well.
That's totally good. All right, quiet down.

Speaker 3 Here comes a respectable guest.

Speaker 1 All right, we got a fella.

Speaker 3 Listen, this fella doesn't do this.

Speaker 1 Okay?

Speaker 3 He doesn't do it at all. He's trying to keep quiet and do his work.

Speaker 3 And while I haven't asked him, my bet is, is that he's dreading this and that he's thrilled that a full six minutes and 15 seconds are already over without him having to talk.

Speaker 3 My job is to make this as painless and breezy as possible. And I need your help, man, because this is a Grammy award-winning artist from Puerto Rico, and he's got a black belt and karate.

Speaker 1 Okay?

Speaker 3 Most folks, however, know him as one of the best actors of our generation. So please say hello to actually one of the kindest, warmest, friendliest, most humble fellas I know.

Speaker 3 Let's welcome Joaquin Phoenix.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Come on. Wow.
There he is. There he is.

Speaker 1 Hi, everybody.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 3 Wait, you're in a trailer, aren't you?

Speaker 1 Are you in a trailer? Yeah, so I'm on set.

Speaker 1 Ah.

Speaker 1 Oh, for the Joker 2.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So I'm listening to the Jenny.
You guys are on Jenny Power right now.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 2 Oh, exactly. Oh, that's the general.

Speaker 3 Now, so then this is your lunch hour?

Speaker 1 No, we're actually shooting kind of splits. So,

Speaker 1 you know, we're going to start in a little bit. So I just came up a little early.
The beat from Beatles, is that really for beat, like drums?

Speaker 1 See? See, you dick.

Speaker 1 Yes, that's exactly right.

Speaker 1 Oh, I didn't even think about that. But no, it has to do with the beat.

Speaker 2 I thought it was the bus.

Speaker 1 Sean, real quick, because Joaquin mentioned it, tell Tracy what splits are.

Speaker 1 I have no idea.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 bless him. Bless him.

Speaker 3 They don't do splits on Will and Grace. No,

Speaker 3 it's always sensible, the best hours in all

Speaker 1 the best. It is the best.

Speaker 3 So splits, listener, is when you start at noon and you end at midnight. As opposed to if you shoot full nights, you start when the sun goes down and you end when the sun comes up.

Speaker 3 Splits is kind of a half-day, half-night shoot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's right. That's perfect.
Yeah, that's perfect. Walking, I don't even know where to start, man.
I don't know you at all. We've never met and I'm such a fan.
You're

Speaker 1 honestly

Speaker 1 just, yeah. And

Speaker 1 I guess let's do it kind of like how we always.

Speaker 1 What I want to know was, what was the first, first of all, because you've done so many amazing characters and so many great movies, but what was the first, your first memory, like your first job that you did?

Speaker 1 First job I did was a guest starring spot on on a TV show called Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, which my brother River starred in. And they were shooting in Northern California.

Speaker 1 And I think just by default, I think just because it was easy to get somebody local, me and my sister played the small part in the show.

Speaker 1 And I think that was probably my first like significant job.

Speaker 3 The one time I worked with River,

Speaker 3 think you were, were you not in it too? When we did the thing about the Kennedys,

Speaker 3 we played like Young Kennedys.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I barely remember, I forget what it's called.

Speaker 3 Anyway, it was like a movie of the week or something like that about Robert F. Kennedy and his times.
Did you play one of the, because you were so small, you probably couldn't even talk then.

Speaker 3 Or maybe just barely. Because we were like, we were 10 or 11 or something like that, weren't we?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was six or seven. No,

Speaker 1 I don't remember that. I vaguely do now that you mentioned it.
It's like out in Massachusetts. But I think the very first thing I did was

Speaker 1 that spot

Speaker 1 in Seven Brights and Brothers.

Speaker 3 And then, so the

Speaker 3 so the acting to you,

Speaker 3 I'm not going to hammer you with all your freaking method and all that stuff because I know you hate talking about that

Speaker 3 as do most.

Speaker 1 I don't know what it is.

Speaker 3 I know, exactly.

Speaker 1 It's just, well, that's what people ask me.

Speaker 3 No, I like that. I guess my question is, when did you get a sense that this acting thing might be a really comfortable thing for you to do and not something that's going to be a lot of work?

Speaker 3 You know, that it's not going to be like hammering nails.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't say that it's very comfortable, but I certainly don't care about that. I mean, I'm not looking for something that's comfortable.

Speaker 1 I'm looking for

Speaker 1 a unique experience.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you get it, though, right?

Speaker 1 But when you see, like, like Joaquin, when you see an actor talk about their process and we've all seen it and people get into it and they want to like focus, first of all, I remember doing this thing once and somebody was asking it like about,

Speaker 1 so we were doing Bojack Horseman and I got kind of, I think I was kind of a dick, but they were like asking about the process. And I said, why is everybody so obsessed with how the sausage is made?

Speaker 1 Why can't they just enjoy the sausage? Right. Like, it's not that interesting.

Speaker 1 And, and, but, but, but then i see like

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 1 you know these actors who talk who spend a lot of time and you see them in these interviews and they're talking about their process and stuff and i'm kind of like

Speaker 1 okay man like if you want you want accolades for what you're doing and you want us to applaud the the way you did it like uh it seems a little self-sarger you have to forgive like everybody when they're doing an interview That's true.

Speaker 1 Because you're just like, it's impossible, virtually impossible not to be an asshole when you're doing an interview. At least for me, that's my experience.
Everybody fucking sounds stupid.

Speaker 1 There's just not a good way to come across.

Speaker 1 And oftentimes, like, a lot of those quotes are from like when you've flown to go to like a film festival in Europe and you're jet lagged and you have like a hundred interviews and you start off just going like, I'm not going to do any of that shit.

Speaker 1 And within 30 minutes, you're just like, whatever it takes, just get me the fuck out of here. I'll say anything.
So like, yes, I read quotes with the interviews and I go, what a twat.

Speaker 1 Like, and I go, oh, I've done so much worse. Um, so I always feel like you have to give people like

Speaker 1 I think you're, I'm with you on that. And that's totally fair enough.

Speaker 1 And yeah, like the interview and or adjunct process is one of the worst sort of that you feel your soul leaving your body and you think like every word you say, you're like, God, I hate myself so much for jumping.

Speaker 3 When you're trying to come up with different ways to answer the same freaking question, you end up backing into a dumb answer.

Speaker 1 I think that what I meant was more that there are people, it seems like they go out of their way to consistently talk about that, and you're like, okay, that's what I was referring to.

Speaker 1 However, having said that. Yeah, I mean, maybe,

Speaker 1 I don't know. I always think like

Speaker 1 whatever it takes, whatever works for you,

Speaker 1 it doesn't really matter. And, and, you know, I understand there are some

Speaker 1 roles that it feels like it requires you to,

Speaker 1 okay, for me,

Speaker 1 every time I work I know that I'm gonna experience like an ungodly amount of humiliation it's just it's just how it's gonna go there's no way that I can get through it without being humiliated and

Speaker 1 I think that's part of like letting go in some ways right because it's it's kind of stupid like what we do is stupid yeah um yeah and like surrendering it is embarrassing and like it's it's really difficult to do some things because if if you if you actually step out for a second and you're like objective and you look at yourself you just cringe it's so it's so fucking embarrassing and stupid so sometimes i understand like you have to

Speaker 1 i i find that i have to like rush right into it and just go like just humiliate me right now make me feel like nothing and so that i'm willing to do this thing because if i really think about it um i'll just be so embarrassed that I won't be able to do any of it.

Speaker 3 It's like the stand-up comic that goes out there on purpose and tries to bomb, you know, like to sort of rip off the band-aid and just like, I'm up here, I'm exposed, here are the jokes, or here's the non-joke, and that almost becomes a performance of just raw vulnerability and let's all get in it together.

Speaker 3 I always find incredible things.

Speaker 1 Well, Sean said, Sean, you mentioned like surrender. There is that moment where you gotta, where you do have to surrender.

Speaker 1 And I think that you do, like I watch you do all these characters in these movies over the last number of years.

Speaker 1 And I always, when I think about someone like you, I think, like, there's a guy who's like sensitive to the material. He's like,

Speaker 1 I would never want to be like, hey, man, how did you do this scene? I'm like, he did a scene how he did the scene. You understood the material.
You took it in. You were sensitive to it.

Speaker 1 And then you just like worked with the material that you were given. And that was your interpretation.
That was your collaboration with the material. Like, full stop.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And it's also like, you know, journalists, critics, reporters, whatever, just kind of doing just enough of their job to get you to fill in the blank and stuff

Speaker 2 with no thought behind it. I can't stand that.

Speaker 2 How did you lose the weight for Joker?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 3 here he comes.

Speaker 3 Here he comes.

Speaker 3 What about, do you remember your grow, you're, when you were growing up, you guys lived a very sort of atypical adolescent, like I did as well.

Speaker 3 How much of it do you remember?

Speaker 3 Do you remember what the policy was in your house about, well, devices didn't exist back then, but TV and that, or was it the kind of house where go outside, find a rock, find a stick, and entertain yourself like it kind of was in my house?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't think we really had a TV until,

Speaker 1 you know, until I was probably, I don't know, 11 or 12 or something. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Maybe a bit younger, maybe because we'd been working by then. but certainly when I was very young, I don't think there was even a TV in the house.

Speaker 1 But we did, there were five of us, right? So

Speaker 1 it's easy to entertain yourself when there's five kids, right?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 my dad was always really amazing at finding houses to rent that were always like,

Speaker 1 you know, in LA, you can live like we grew up in the valley for a lot and

Speaker 1 there's houses that are like by government land right there's just like mountain ranges right like that's the backyard so suddenly you could go there and and so that's what we enjoy doing right just playing games and using our imagination um so that's what i remember

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Speaker 2 And now back to the show.

Speaker 1 Forgive me, I don't know, Joaquin. Were you, so you mentioned growing up in the valley.
So were you born in L.A.? Like that was...

Speaker 1 No, born in Puerto Rico. Oh, that was true.
Yeah, I was born in Puerto Rico. Oh, really? That was true.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 let's see. I think first we lived in,

Speaker 1 when we came to the to the station in Puerto Rico, we were in Florida. And then

Speaker 1 my mother

Speaker 1 was college roommates with Penny Marshall. Oh, Penny Marshall, yeah.
Oh, wow. Oh, really?

Speaker 1 Yeah, and Lavern and Shirley was very popular at the time. And

Speaker 1 my brother and sister, my older brother and sister, River and Rain, would,

Speaker 1 my brother learned to play guitar very young. And they would perform at like talent shows um and stuff and they were like winning these talent shows.
No way, so I think they felt like this like um

Speaker 1 just this curiosity and natural progression towards like something in the entertainment field um my parents didn't really have a lot of experience with it, right?

Speaker 1 So, I don't think they really knew, but I think that it seemed that the kids had um

Speaker 1 i don't know i don't really want to say talent but whatever the fuck it was, right? Something, some kind of like creative spark. Yeah.
And I think they wanted to support that.

Speaker 1 And so my mom actually reached out to Penny Marshall

Speaker 1 and said, we were thinking of coming to Los Angeles and would you meet the kids? And I think she said, don't, don't, don't come out here.

Speaker 1 So you can imagine, like, somebody called you from your past as you went to college. Like, hey, have these kids? Will you come out and work when you meet them?

Speaker 3 And Penny's like, let me stop you there.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Go away.

Speaker 1 Please don't come out.

Speaker 1 And I think we packed up the next day

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 went to L.A.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 That's fucking crazy. So what were your parents doing at the time that they're like in, I think you said Florida, like what was going on? My dad

Speaker 1 did like manual labor. Like he

Speaker 1 was like the groundskeeper for this

Speaker 1 this wealthy man. I think it was like a recording producer.
I can't remember his name.

Speaker 1 And there was

Speaker 1 like a little guest house on the property where we lived.

Speaker 1 And my dad took care of the grounds.

Speaker 1 And my mom was raising us. And then we went to Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 My mom started working at NBC

Speaker 1 for this amazing casting director named Joel Thurm.

Speaker 3 Joel Thurm, that's right. At NBC.

Speaker 1 And she worked there and my dad took care of us, took care of the kids. And we met Joel.

Speaker 3 By the way, let me stop you though, just for one second. So, so, Joel Thurm, for the listener and for you guys, if you guys, Sean, you may have met him, but maybe he was gone by then.

Speaker 3 But this was the office where when you were going in to do a network test, which for the listener, that's the last step before you get a series as an actor. And when you get a series,

Speaker 3 you're employed for years and years, and it's like winning the lottery. It's a high-stakes thing.

Speaker 3 So, that last audition, that last meeting in that office is Joel Thurm's office so joaquin's mom was was on his desk she was sitting at the desk right there where you're sitting waiting just like dying with anxiety right before you're supposed to go in there um and it was like to me it's carved into my memory that office that little that lobby that section right there was where most of my anxiety started so you're so you're saying joaquin's mom you're so saying joaquin's no no no but she was this ray of sunshine and she would every time i'd run into her we'd have a very nice, warm hug and smile.

Speaker 1 Oh, you know,

Speaker 2 yeah, she's wait, so Joaquin, so, so everybody was, everybody was in it. Everybody was kind of in it or around it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
And so we would, we would go and visit, and Joel was always

Speaker 1 just so sweet. Like we would, he would just set up, set us up in his office, and we would watch.

Speaker 1 That's probably where I remember really being exposed to like TV and

Speaker 1 shows, TV shows, was in Joel's office because we would watch all the reruns. He had every tape of every MC show.
Wow, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 And it was just like the best time going there.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 yeah, and I think we tried to do,

Speaker 1 I think he actually arranged for us to do a

Speaker 1 like some recording, like a test to see if we could do like a show as a family. It was like

Speaker 2 the Partridge family or something.

Speaker 1 I guess some shit like that. And yes, he introduced us to Iris Burton, who was like the child actor agent.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the only one that would take all five of us because we'd met other agents. It was a package deal.
And they'd be like, I'll take those two. I'll take that.
She was like, I'll take them all.

Speaker 1 Wow. Wow.
And so

Speaker 3 your interest in acting didn't really come as much from watching TV or watching movies because you guys didn't do a ton of that when you were growing up.

Speaker 3 It kind of came from once you moved to Los Angeles and you started to get this initial exposure to it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I think it just was an extension of the games that we played. Like, my dad was a fucking ham.
Yeah. Like, he would do these skits like all the time.

Speaker 1 And again, because we didn't have TV, we just basically did like plays.

Speaker 1 So we would just make up these

Speaker 1 kind of scenarios and play them out, play dress up, and you know, shit like that.

Speaker 1 So I think it just was an extension of that.

Speaker 1 And then I remember being on set,

Speaker 1 the energy on a set is like unmatched. It's incredible, right? There's just like 100 people that are all like

Speaker 1 brilliant in their own specific kind of craft.

Speaker 1 Right. So you've propped people that it's just, it's like incredible what everyone does, right?

Speaker 1 And they're such a,

Speaker 1 I think everyone in the best case scenario everyone's really excited about what they're doing and they work really hard to kind of create this world and that's a really interesting energy and it's fucking fun as a kid you know it's like it's so exciting to be on set

Speaker 1 so it was something that was just really enjoyable about it and then

Speaker 1 I remember the first scene that um that we did in this TV show in Seven Brothers, Seven Brothers, and one of the characters, Peter Horton, was the actor.

Speaker 1 And we had been friends with them, you know, because we'd been there on set. And suddenly we're in the scene with him, and he's meant to get into a fight with

Speaker 1 the boyfriend of the woman that played our mother. And they get in this like fight and they're rolling around on the ground.
And like to an eight-year-old, shit felt very real, right?

Speaker 1 And he was like our friend, so we were worried about him. And I remember being like overcome with this emotion

Speaker 1 at what was happening. And I distinctly remember like, like physically buzzing from it.

Speaker 1 And it was such a powerful feeling

Speaker 1 because it wasn't real. It was safe.
But like, I

Speaker 1 like had this feeling course through my body.

Speaker 1 And I was like, I want more of that.

Speaker 1 Like, it was so fucking exciting.

Speaker 1 And nothing has ever given me that feeling. Like,

Speaker 1 you know you're obviously safe because you're doing multiple takes it's not that in the world it's a fucking movie but it can feel so dangerous um you know you feel like so much pressure because you're committing something and it's it's gonna be it's gonna be around forever yeah um

Speaker 1 and there's something that just feels like really exciting about that to me still That's so interesting. Hey, Joaquin, did you do any comedy?

Speaker 1 You're always funny in what you do even if it's a drum you'll find the comedy yeah but no like a pure have you ever done like a pure again forgive me have you done like a pure pure comedy i remember i remember seeing you and and to die for and i thought that was darkly funny i thought that was darkly funny yeah gus

Speaker 1 yeah yeah yeah

Speaker 1 with uh nicole kiddie yep i love it that was uh i think in the 90s right was that was that a great experience it was a great experience um yeah well i i hadn't uh the last film that the last acting that i'd done was uh when i was i don't don't know 14 or 15 in a movie called Parenthood and then I we moved out of Los Angeles we moved to Florida and

Speaker 1 And I basically given up acting

Speaker 1 Yeah, I didn't think that I was I was gonna act

Speaker 1 Again and then I then I

Speaker 1 my brother really encouraged me

Speaker 1 to start acting again and he was actually going to make a film and he wanted me to play his his brother. And I think that kind of sparked my

Speaker 1 renewed interest in it.

Speaker 1 And then,

Speaker 1 yeah, Today 4 came up. I remember going and auditioning for it.
I read that script, and I instantly had an idea of what I thought the character was and went audition for it. And

Speaker 1 I was always really fortunate that the directors that I worked with, a lot of them just didn't didn't have

Speaker 1 ego and weren't desperate to like micromanage and control, and really encouraged me to bring my ideas to it and to discover it.

Speaker 1 I remember it really started with Ron Howard on Parenthood,

Speaker 1 and I was surprised at how curious he was about my thoughts and feelings about the character.

Speaker 1 So I just, I didn't know that that was allowed. And Gus was,

Speaker 1 you know, the same thing where I remember him just saying, like,

Speaker 1 it doesn't matter. Like, things don't have to go right.
Like, whatever happens is a part of it, and it's okay.

Speaker 1 So don't worry about

Speaker 1 like any kind of rules in some ways.

Speaker 1 And there's a thing that you learn as a kid that you're supposed to pride yourself on, which is like hitting the mark and finding your light and knowing your lines.

Speaker 1 And I think that all of that stuff is like really dangerous

Speaker 1 because it just like leads to things being flat.

Speaker 1 Like when everybody is just like hitting their marks and we know what's going to happen take after take,

Speaker 1 you just like, it's just human nature. Like inevitably you just fall onto something being like just rote.
And I think it lacks like an energy and excitement.

Speaker 1 And we're in this like unique position where you can do multiple takes. So why not take advantage of it and

Speaker 1 let it be something different each time within reason.

Speaker 1 And those are things that I learned from my early experiences. Like it's it's okay.

Speaker 1 I think because films are so expensive and there's so many moving parts. we like to try to control it as much as possible.

Speaker 3 Where do you sit on that? Because I battle with this as an actor and also as a director sometimes about

Speaker 3 how much you should just sort of pay attention to the natural thing of it or how much you should adhere to the technical uh uh specifics of that particular shot for instance let's say the camera angle is really tight on you and you're sit and you're sitting down and in the middle of the line you have to stand up and because you're in a real tight shot the cameraman asks you to stand up kind of slowly don't shoot up because if you shoot up i lose you in the camera i can't i can't keep up with you and so they ask you to kind of come up with sometimes they call it a grouch show where you kind of come up kind of slow like in a hunch.

Speaker 3 But certain actors, myself at some times, I'll be like, well, no, I got to shoot up because I'm pissed off. Like, so either widen your shot or just anticipate it.

Speaker 3 But how much do you, like, are there times when you're a little bit more cooperative with that than other times? I mean, I find myself in that sometimes I just, I can't do it.

Speaker 3 As a director, sometimes I'll hesitate in even asking an actor to do it, but the shot might be, might really need it. Where do you, where do you sit with all that stuff?

Speaker 3 The, the, the combination between the technical and

Speaker 3 the natural in what you do?

Speaker 1 I guess it depends. I mean,

Speaker 1 every film is different.

Speaker 1 There's not really one way of approaching it. And there are times where

Speaker 1 I think it makes sense. The other night we were shooting and camera was behind me and I was moving towards the other actor.

Speaker 1 And just from years of doing it,

Speaker 1 I knew to like widen out a little bit to like favor the right side so that it was clear on them. And I remember as I was doing it, I was so ashamed that

Speaker 1 I hated myself so much. And I was like, this means that I'm not in the fucking moment because I'm aware that the camera's there.
And then afterwards, they were like, can you widen out a little bit?

Speaker 1 I was like, oh, I thought I was already widening out as much as I was comfortable with and I was fucking embarrassed. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And now you ask me to do it more.

Speaker 3 It's kind of our job though, isn't it?

Speaker 1 I mean, it's not part of it, though.

Speaker 3 Like, yeah, when you're doing theater, right, Sean, like you don't have to accommodate the other part of the process, which is the camera or the lighting or something.

Speaker 3 Like when we're doing movies or television, that is part of it. And I feel bad for pushing back on that as an actor.
Like my performance needs to stay pure and I don't even want to know about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but at every point of it, it is. Like if you're doing, if you're doing the show, Sean, I imagine, like, you're always thinking about going upstage, make sure, right?

Speaker 1 Like, you make sure you always play out.

Speaker 2 You have to play out. And also,

Speaker 2 there's faces staring at you.

Speaker 3 It's distracting, right, Joaquin? Like, it knocks you out of the body.

Speaker 1 You've got this big monologue as Oscar Levant, and then you're doing this moment. At the same time, you're thinking, like, fuck, can everybody hear me in the back row?

Speaker 1 I'm sure you have those moments, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But Joaquin, it distracts you out of the performance, though, yes?

Speaker 1 Well, I think the job is to be as true to the moment as possible. And sometimes that's easier than other times for whatever reason.

Speaker 1 Sometimes I watch like basketball players and it's just like going in for them.

Speaker 1 And other times it seems like they're really working at it and focusing.

Speaker 1 It's just one of those things like sometimes you're in the flow and there's nothing, those are the best moments when somebody can be making noise off camera talking and you you're not distracted by it.

Speaker 1 Like you could throw anything at you and you're just in it because you're just in the in the flow.

Speaker 1 And then there's other times where it's a bit more difficult. There's that it feels like it's so artificial, everything that's happening.

Speaker 1 And I guess the job in some ways is to try to make it feel as organic as possible.

Speaker 1 And sometimes that's easier than other times. So I think if you're in it and you're in one of those moments, it's like, yeah, I can make that adjustment.

Speaker 1 It's not getting in the way. And there's other times where I go like, no, you, you have to adjust the camera because I'm not, I can't, I can't do this.
Um, I don't really know why that that happened.

Speaker 3 It's that level, it's that thing you started talking about about that level of discomfort and embarrassment of like, I have to kind of commit to this thing and to really commit to it is kind of embarrassing.

Speaker 3 It's just weird as shit. And you're making that hard for me.

Speaker 2 But yeah, yeah, that's what I want to talk about because all you know,

Speaker 2 what I'm doing in this play is a big swing for the fences.

Speaker 1 It's like, this is embarrassing as all,

Speaker 1 all hell.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm playing somebody that's nothing like me at all. Yeah.
And then, and then I see you, Joaquin, play, do that over and over again.

Speaker 1 I'm like, gosh, how in the world do you get past that feeling of,

Speaker 2 you know, humility?

Speaker 3 Believing yourself so.

Speaker 1 Yeah, believing yourself, like over and over and over again.

Speaker 2 It's just kind of fascinating.

Speaker 3 I wonder if

Speaker 3 the director, I would imagine, is a big, big part of it, right?

Speaker 3 I mean, you've worked with so many incredible directors that so clearly have pardon the term a vision and clear um you know no i'm not going to pardon the term

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 3 but uh is that is that a big big part of it for you when you're considering what to do next is it is it is it as much about the director as it is about the part or is it is it more so

Speaker 1 i mean the the director is it. It's kind of that simple, right? Because everything ultimately runs through them.

Speaker 1 Even if

Speaker 1 they're choosing the cinematographer and the editor,

Speaker 1 everyone that they're working with, they're ultimately saying yes or no to which take is being used.

Speaker 1 Especially because

Speaker 1 I like to

Speaker 1 do

Speaker 1 to approach each take differently sometimes. There's a lot of choices that the director has.

Speaker 1 and so you have to really trust them

Speaker 1 that they're gonna make the right choices because sometimes I will

Speaker 1 do things that

Speaker 1 may not be right for the scene and I'll I'll know that I'll know that this is probably not the right approach for the scene but I'll do it partially just to

Speaker 1 just to change things up, just to put me in this place where I don't really know what's going to happen. It suddenly just opens it up the possibilities.

Speaker 1 And there are times you go, fuck, I hope they don't use that one. Right.

Speaker 3 Or if they use a little piece of that with one that's with a take that's more sort of normal, then it makes you look like a shit actor.

Speaker 3 So you really have to trust the ingredients that the director is going to use downstream when he's cooking things together or she.

Speaker 1 Yeah, or they make you look like a genius. Or

Speaker 1 yeah, yeah, exactly. Like

Speaker 1 you use a little piece of something and

Speaker 1 you're like, oh, that was actually from an earlier part in the scene. That wasn't even my reaction for that line.
Right.

Speaker 1 But that's like, that's great editing.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, the filmmakers, everything.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you're so reliant on the taste of a director. Todd Phillips certainly has it in Spades.
And

Speaker 3 the film that's coming out right now,

Speaker 3 Ari Astor, he seems like a guy

Speaker 3 is just

Speaker 3 overflowing with genius. That trailer is stunning.
I can't wait to see that film.

Speaker 3 This is called Bo is Afraid. Bo is afraid.

Speaker 3 How is making that, because for

Speaker 1 the listener,

Speaker 3 if you haven't seen the trailer, it's correct me if I'm wrong here, Joaquin. It's about a guy going to see his mom and the

Speaker 3 sort of

Speaker 3 the fear and sort of dreamscape or nightmare scape inside of his head as he approaches that event is where this film kind of takes us. Is that a shitty enough explanation of it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, sounds good.

Speaker 3 That's just what I gathered from the trailer. But it's so, so it's very sort of fantastical.
And

Speaker 3 I don't know. I love sort of Spike Jones stuff and Charlie Kaufman stuff.
And this seems

Speaker 3 in that world

Speaker 3 and just another great example of that type of filmmaking. I'm so excited to see it.
Did you love doing it?

Speaker 1 I did love doing it.

Speaker 1 I have just great admiration for Ari and his approach. And

Speaker 1 very early on, I realized how perceptive and observant he was.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 sometimes

Speaker 1 there are some scenes where you think like,

Speaker 1 okay, well, I can't get away with it, but like I can, I have no choice, but I have to act through this, right? Because this would be very difficult to maintain this for like six hours.

Speaker 1 So inevitably, there's going to be a wide shot and I'm going to be acting in this one at the at the end of the day, you know? And that happens every once in a while.

Speaker 1 And it's something you really want to avoid. And it's horrible, but sometimes you're just so fucking tired and you can't do it.
And again, the voice creeps in just going, this is stupid.

Speaker 1 What are you doing? Stop taking this seriously. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Go home.

Speaker 1 And so you have to fight that voice off, but it's very difficult if the filmmaker has that same voice and is also going like, hey, let's just come on and wrap this up.

Speaker 1 And I knew very early on that Ari was not that filmmaker.

Speaker 1 And so I think that we were just constantly pushing each other

Speaker 1 to

Speaker 1 commit to it as much as possible.

Speaker 1 And so there was no...

Speaker 1 There was no kind of like, oh,

Speaker 1 let's cheat in this watch. And we did one watch out that was like, it's so ridiculously wide and it's such a brief moment but i had to like i i wanted to like collapse in in the take

Speaker 1 and um

Speaker 1 i couldn't just like drop to my knees i just was like

Speaker 1 this is just ridiculous

Speaker 1 to my knees

Speaker 1 um and

Speaker 1 and it was And it was, it's stupid looking back on it. I was like, I could have just dropped my knees and nobody would have known the difference.
But

Speaker 1 I,

Speaker 1 I just, I, I just felt like I was, I was cheating if I, if I did that. And wow, I love how honest you were about that.
By the way, Jason, you asked him the question, like, how was it making?

Speaker 1 And then you like took a moment to really. So often people are like, yeah, it was great.
No, he's all honesty. I love it.
Yeah, no, it's fucking great.

Speaker 1 And it reminds me, Sean, how many late nights have you been like, we're not, it's getting too late and you just got to drop your knees? I mean, it's got to be

Speaker 1 countless.

Speaker 2 I don't need a reason.

Speaker 2 I don't need the motivation. It gets me to sleep early.

Speaker 3 And we will be right back.

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Speaker 2 And now back to the show.

Speaker 1 Joaquin, I was just thinking about years ago, I remember when

Speaker 1 Amy, my ex-wife, was

Speaker 1 still on SNL and you came. I remember you came

Speaker 1 to SNL and you were shooting. You were with Casey Affleck and you guys were shooting.
I'm still here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So talk to me a little bit about that, man.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 I was actually thinking about

Speaker 1 that today. I don't know why.
I was remembering actually going to SNL because

Speaker 1 there was an actor that I ran into in the hallway and I can't remember who it was or I just don't want to say.

Speaker 1 And I was kind of like doing my

Speaker 1 shit for that movie.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 she's somebody somebody that I worked with, and she seemed very shocked and concerned. And I remember like the look on her face.
I so desperately wanted to tell her, like, it's okay. I'm okay.

Speaker 1 It's just a thing. So we like made this commitment that we weren't going to tell anybody that it wasn't real.

Speaker 3 So, listener, this thing that he's talking about, I'm still here. It's this, this was a, a, uh, a, a documentary

Speaker 3 about Joaquin quitting acting and becoming a rap star.

Speaker 1 Wait, I want to hear Joaquin tell it.

Speaker 3 Well, but write that in a nutshell.

Speaker 3 Everybody thought it was real.

Speaker 3 No reason to think it wasn't real. And everyone was trying to get very excited.

Speaker 1 I was except that I was like 35 saying I'm retiring from acting to be a rap star.

Speaker 3 But that's what made it so electric is because everyone wanted to be really sensitive to, oh my God, what a tragic mistake this young actor is making.

Speaker 1 I can just tell you that at SNL that night that I was there, you were there. This is like late late 2008, I think.
I think Archie had just been born. And you were like,

Speaker 1 and I remember you were walking in and you guys were shooting stuff. And then I forget who the band was.

Speaker 1 And you guys came down onto the floor on

Speaker 1 8H and you guys are shooting it. And I remember everybody in the cast was like.
what's going on? What is he?

Speaker 1 What is happening? Like, nobody knew it was like you really had everybody

Speaker 1 fooled. And like, yeah.

Speaker 1 But, you know, it wasn't to fool other people. Like, what we discovered is like the moment somebody knew what was going on that it wasn't real, I became terrible.
Right, right, right.

Speaker 1 I started being like really hammy and like winking at the camera. And I think the whole trick was to try to get it to feel as real as possible.

Speaker 1 And so the only way that it felt real was when other people believed it was happening. And it forced me to try to play it as believably as possible.

Speaker 1 And so that's why we just didn't want to tell anybody because the moment, because there were some friends that,

Speaker 1 like actor friends, that I would do some scenes with, and they, because they knew me so well, they figured it out.

Speaker 1 And I would inevitably just really start overdoing it, just really kind of hamming it up.

Speaker 1 And so we just discovered like very early on that when I if somebody thought that it was real, it just made me embarrassed and scared.

Speaker 1 and then I would just kind of be more internal, um, with it and I think more believable.

Speaker 3 So, then just don't tell anyone, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it was awkward and uncomfortable. And, and, um, and this girl that that was this, this actress that was there, um,

Speaker 1 she emailed me like a couple days later, and she just said, like, I know what you're doing.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 and I actually was, I was so relieved,

Speaker 1 so relieved because I was so embarrassed about that. Did you you respond? Did you confirm? I did not.
I did not. Yeah.
By the way, I tried to do this thing with this guy, Bob,

Speaker 1 this writer, yesterday on set. And we were like, it's April Fool's.
And we're like, and I don't do it April, but I was like, let, he was like, just pretend to fire me in front of the crew.

Speaker 1 And I was like, okay.

Speaker 1 And then so we got later in the day and I'd sort of forgotten about it. And then he walked out and then we started this argument and it got really awkward.
And,

Speaker 1 but I had to commit to it because in the middle of it, I'm like, fuck and it felt so like sort of status wise I felt shitty like an asshole

Speaker 1 yeah and I hated that feeling and I was like once you get the fuck well why'd you even bother showing up if you're gonna just pitch me shitty jokes then get the fuck and I started going like that anyway we sort of got to the end of it and I finally said April Fools after a few minutes and the fucking crew it got really quiet and it wasn't fun no

Speaker 1 made them all feel uncomfortable it fucking sucked wait walk how did that all end up I don't remember how that all finished up.

Speaker 3 What was when did the when did the curtain come down on all of that? Was it on the release of it or?

Speaker 1 Yeah, on the release. And at that point, we'd been shooting for like two years, I think, or a year and a half or something.

Speaker 1 And I was,

Speaker 1 I had been so looking forward to this moment of saying like it wasn't real because it had just been so uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 And I'd, I, I just had avoided so many friends because I just didn't know how to kind of like keep up the ruse.

Speaker 1 And then, so, and I can't remember how we kind of, you know, released it and said, oh, it wasn't real. Nobody believed us.

Speaker 1 They suddenly thought like, oh yeah, of course, now after you fucked your career, you're trying to say that this is like this spoof. Oh, they thought you like had risk.

Speaker 1 Because you're trying to save your career. And come back.
Oh, my God. No way.

Speaker 1 And.

Speaker 1 And so I was like, oh, fucking can't, can't win.

Speaker 1 But then you showed them uh what was up what you came back with the master right wasn't that wasn't that what followed well that was yeah i mean the thing is is that as a as a product of this of this of i'm still here

Speaker 1 um i think at that point a lot of people

Speaker 1 that were maybe would consider hiring me were like Even if it's not real, you have to be kind of fucking nuts to do this. So he's probably, this is probably not something you want to work with.

Speaker 1 Anyways, and I remember my options.

Speaker 3 The PTA was like, bring it on.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 the options at the time were just left a lot to be desired in terms of work. And I remember

Speaker 1 at one point just really being

Speaker 1 desperate and feeling like, well, I actually really fucked myself. And

Speaker 1 I can't get a job.

Speaker 1 And I was really considering doing this movie that was a terrible movie. I knew it was terrible.
But I was like, I just have to get back and show people that

Speaker 1 this wasn't fucking real.

Speaker 1 And I almost did it. And actually, my

Speaker 1 agent,

Speaker 1 Boomer, who was actually, he was the assistant of my original agent, Patrick Weitzel.

Speaker 1 And he'd started working with me. And at first, I was like, oh, this fucking bait and switch.
So, like, I'm working with your assistant now. This is bullshit.

Speaker 1 And then I remember talking to Boomer, and I was saying, look, man,

Speaker 1 I'm just, I'm lost. I'm desperate.
It's the first time in my life, like, I don't feel like I know what, what to do. Yeah.
And I'm asking for advice.

Speaker 1 I've never done that. You know, I always really have a strong sense of like what I want to do.
And he was like, do you have to do this movie? And I said, what do you mean?

Speaker 1 He goes, does it matter to you? And I was like, no.

Speaker 1 He goes, well, then why are you doing it? And I really needed that at that moment. Like, I just, I felt so fucking lost and confused.

Speaker 1 And it was really, it was a really important moment for me. And so I said no to the movie.
And

Speaker 1 then a couple months later, Amanda Demi

Speaker 1 reached out to me and she said, hey, Paul's trying to get in touch with you. No way.
And

Speaker 1 he sent the script over. And I remember looking

Speaker 1 through the script and there was Freddie and Master. And I was like halfway through.
And I was like, there's no way he's calling me for one of those parts. you know.

Speaker 1 So, I called him, I said, What character am I supposed to read? Because I figured it was like something that pops up, you know, for a couple scenes. And he was like, Freddie,

Speaker 1 um, and I didn't even finish the script, and I had to prevent myself from saying, like, yes, right there.

Speaker 1 So, it's like halfway through, and I was like, Just fuck, yeah, dude, I couldn't believe that movie

Speaker 1 he wanted me for for that

Speaker 1 film.

Speaker 3 Well, that's that's amazing. Uh, before we let you go, I want to ask you you just real quickly about Napoleon.

Speaker 3 And it's one of the movies I'm looking most forward to seeing coming up.

Speaker 3 It seems like that was a really

Speaker 3 robust shoot. I mean, period.
And Ridley Scott. And

Speaker 3 that subject matter, I mean, was it as epic as it sounds like?

Speaker 3 What can you tell us about that, if anything?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was. It was a fucking massive production.
the amazing thing about ridley is

Speaker 1 he he's like overseeing this massive machine right just like hundreds of extras yeah eight cameras you know these huge locations and he can just pivot like like that like he

Speaker 1 could arrive on on set and make a discovery in the moment

Speaker 1 and feel like the scene is maybe leading in like a new direction And he's just fine with, like, he will adjust,

Speaker 1 he will adjust the camera, he will adjust to the performance. Like, if there's something that feels

Speaker 1 honest and real, and like a worthwhile exploration.

Speaker 3 Turn a steamership around.

Speaker 1 And it's so impressive to me. Because, yeah, I mean, I don't know how much we were spending a day, but

Speaker 1 it was a lot.

Speaker 1 And I had a great experience with him, you know, all those years ago on Gladiator. And so

Speaker 1 I just was always

Speaker 1 wanted to work with him again.

Speaker 2 That's so cool. You know, I know we're going to let you go because you've got to get back.
But, you know, hearing you talk, I've never met you.

Speaker 2 I know you probably hate this, but I'm a huge fan of yours.

Speaker 2 And you are an inspiration to me and tons of other actors.

Speaker 1 I have so much respect for you.

Speaker 1 Damn it. I do.

Speaker 2 I know you hate that because it feels false, but it's not.

Speaker 2 But you're married, you have a baby boy, you have purpose with animal rights activism, you have a great career, you have all this stuff going on in your life.

Speaker 2 Are you able to sit back and just kind of absorb all that, or do you have a defense mechanism where you're just like, no, I gotta, I just, I know everything's great, I just gotta keep going, I just gotta keep going to challenge myself to the next thing, or can you really sit back and

Speaker 2 absorb all the great things that have happened to you?

Speaker 1 As you get older, it all becomes easier.

Speaker 1 I'm fully cognizant of what a charmed life I have.

Speaker 1 It has exceeded my expectations or my greatest dreams.

Speaker 1 I'm so fucking grateful for what I have, the family and friends that I have, and the opportunity for work.

Speaker 1 I never imagined it would be like this, and it has been so fulfilling.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 appreciate it and value

Speaker 1 the opportunity that I've had.

Speaker 1 But I still want more experiences.

Speaker 1 I just love making films. I love collaborating with people.

Speaker 1 It's just so exciting to talk about makeup and hair. And like

Speaker 1 you're sitting around with all these people that are really good at what they do.

Speaker 1 And you get to kind of like create something together. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's, it's just an incredible opportunity. I love that you said that because you said it, you said it before, too, and you were talking about all the people on set.

Speaker 1 And I don't think people appreciate it enough. And I love that you said it.

Speaker 1 And I always think about it, like everybody on set, no matter what their job is, everybody's a filmmaker. Everybody is part of the process in that way.
And I don't, and too often people get,

Speaker 3 you see people who sort of, I don't know, spend the time, they don't spend the time or the energy and they sort of disregard this people's like motherfucker every single person here is making this film together there's nobody there that that doesn't have to be there yeah right it's uh it's something a lot of people don't realize yeah um well walk you're incredible at it um please keep going um we'll take twice as much um but i know you got you got a kid to raise and uh and rooney to hang out with she's awesome too please say hi to her thank her You know, she found us our dog.

Speaker 3 We've got a brand new dog. She found us our dog, our dog, Gary.
He's a real cutie.

Speaker 3 We love you and thank you. And say hi to Todd and Larry.
And

Speaker 3 have a great day of work.

Speaker 1 I hope this has been okay. I feel like it was.

Speaker 3 No, dude, it's been awesome. You've been very good.

Speaker 1 Wait, before you go, how do you get into Joker? No. Yeah.

Speaker 2 See, we ended up talking about the process and nobody got hurt.

Speaker 1 No, but in a good way. Thank you, man.
Thank you for taking the time, especially being

Speaker 1 about to start work.

Speaker 3 Very nice of you to do this, buddy. Especially,

Speaker 1 no, thank you guys. Honestly, this is

Speaker 1 painless.

Speaker 3 Painless. Kind of.

Speaker 1 Kind of.

Speaker 3 Well, when you're done, hurry home and we'll talk some more.

Speaker 1 Okay, great. Thank you all so much.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Have a good day. See you bye.
Bye walk. Bye.

Speaker 1 Man.

Speaker 1 Amazing. No, that's a that's a

Speaker 3 this is an actor.

Speaker 1 This is an artist.

Speaker 2 And did you know him, Jason, for a long time?

Speaker 3 Yes. No,

Speaker 3 we don't spend every day with one another by any stretch, but we've known each other for a long time. We've got some very close mutual friends.

Speaker 3 And,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 he's a guy I would love to talk.

Speaker 3 further with, deeply with,

Speaker 3 you know, at length with. But as you can tell,

Speaker 3 he doesn't really enjoy talking about the stuff that we're all fascinated with about him you know and that's probably why he's so goddamn good at what he does is because yeah maybe he just doesn't care to look at you know how the how the magic trick is done he just it's something he's great at it's something that he uh i enjoys well that

Speaker 1 that's what i was getting at and then you know i put and he was like no no no you know i i forgive those people for you know talking about the process but i meant more about the people who go out of their way they're like look at my process right

Speaker 1 so difficult what I do. That's what I meant.
When they offer it first, yeah. Yeah, when they offer it first and they're like, my whole thing, my whole identity is wrapped around how I do it.

Speaker 1 And I want everybody to know and to think that and be impressed by my process, which he is like further, that couldn't be further removed from that. He's like, man, I don't want to tell you anything.

Speaker 3 He's also one of those actors I love watching and trying to understand what that character must be thinking. Like he's a very internal actor.

Speaker 3 And you kind of, if I knew what he was thinking and I knew how he was doing it, or if I knew that much about him, if he did a bunch of press and all that stuff, it'd be hard for me to buy him being somebody else.

Speaker 3 So I kind of like that he's mistaken.

Speaker 1 Well, you watch him do like, like, I was thinking the last thing I saw him in was Joker, and you watch him in that performance. Amazing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, incredible. And,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 millions of people love it. Some people don't.

Speaker 1 Whatever you think, when you watch him, he's so compelling, Jason, like you say, because you're like, what is he?

Speaker 1 He's so inhabiting it in those moments. And he has these moments where he take, and you're watching, and you're thinking, like, exactly that.
What is he thinking? How is he? Where is he now?

Speaker 2 He says he's more into the work than all of the others.

Speaker 3 But he's also, I don't know. I mean, if it sounds so fucking accurate to say, but he manages to do something that I love when I watch actors is their ability to communicate vulnerability and

Speaker 3 humanness and flaws and elements of being broken because we're all broken. We're all vulnerable, but we all learn these different

Speaker 3 skins of trying to hide it. And he is so courageous, just as a person was talking about, making a fool out of himself, of being kind of warts and all.
Like, look at all my flaws.

Speaker 3 And he finds those in every character because that's all part of it, I suppose, is just being not fully put together, you know, with his characters.

Speaker 1 He's only the second, but he is only the second guest we've had who

Speaker 1 who is

Speaker 1 Killing Sigs during the interview.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, who is that? Sean Penn was the other one, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Killing Sigs. You haven't smoked yet during an interview, have you?

Speaker 1 No, I did when I was in London. Remember, I was recording from London.
I did a couple times.

Speaker 2 So that was, what was that called if you smoke a cigarette over there?

Speaker 1 Oh, crushing.

Speaker 3 No, crushing, but it's crushing.

Speaker 3 Don't say it.

Speaker 1 Don't say it. We'll have to lift it.

Speaker 3 We know what you're going to say.

Speaker 1 Jesus, Sean. Say it.
I don't just trade. I don't know what it is.

Speaker 3 Sean, you're trying to bait him into a cancellation. Are you looking to recast?

Speaker 3 You're looking for a new third?

Speaker 2 No, you can crush some fags over here and just wait.

Speaker 1 Sean, Jesus, Sean, for fuck's sake, what is wrong with you? Well, I'm talking about what

Speaker 3 would the term be, what would the term be, though, speaking of which, if you liked men and you liked women, yeah,

Speaker 1 you'd be

Speaker 1 all that you would be bye.

Speaker 1 We haven't done just a straight up buy yet. Wow, I know.

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