"Ben Stiller"

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Hey, SmartList listeners, it's Will.

I just snuck in here because I really wanted to connect with you guys.

You know, just us.

Just one-on-one.

Just being honest.

Just sharing experiences.

And really breaking down all these barriers.

You know.

Anyway, this has been great.

All right, let's go.

It's an all-new Smart List.

Smart List.

Smart List. Smart.
Lettuce. Smart.
Lettuce. Smart.
Lettuce. So, listener, Arnett's got his TV hair on right now.
Yeah. He looks incredibly handsome.
They just snapped it in. You're on a lunch break, is that right?

Down there in Atlanta?

Indeed.

And what are you going to have for lunch today?

Aside from a great interview.

No, today for lunch, I think I'm having, it's a salad.

It's a Mediterranean salad.

I've been eating these great, by the way, if there's anybody,

you're in the Atlanta area and you're looking for some food.

My friend Brandy down here, she has a nice little business. She makes food for people.
Someone just got a deal on their monthly expenditure. No, I'm already done.
I'm already done. Spell her last name.
No, it's just, I think it's like. What's her website? She works with a lot of people and she, I got to say, incredibly good, delicious.
I'm already done. I've already fully paid so that I'm not getting anything out of it other than she's so good at what she does.
And I really, and a person who works super hard and always delivers, I've been really impressed with it. Enough.
You know what I noticed the other day too? I want to say this. You know, when you go online, sometimes you go on Twitter and you see people going, especially people who have.
Hang on a second. But let's just talk about hashtag relatable.
Did you just give a, a, a, a recommendation for a personal chef? If anyone's ever in Atlanta in Atlanta? So relatable. Yeah, I'm just, sorry, sorry.
To movie and TV stars. Sorry, that's what I meant to say.
Any jet carriers you want to plug to? Jet Edge. They're your favorite.
You're the ones who turned me on to them. Pretty sweet.
You want to go down this road with me? No, don't continue, please. I don't think so.
So, what I want to say is this. You know, you go on, you see these blue verified checkmark people and they complain about stuff and they tag like, you know, the company like, hey, Coca-Cola, I opened up a Coke and it was flat or like, hey, Hertz, my car wasn't there.
And they're doing it in a public way to complain because they want to get to the front of the line because they're real noisy, squeaky wheels. And there aren't enough...
You almost said noisy bottom. I heard you.
I know, but I almost did. Well, bossy.
I was going to say a bossy bottom. Hey, keep Scotty out of this.
Or a powerboat. Oh, Sean.
But you know what? Like the other day I was thinking, I traveled back and forth from here, from Atlanta to New York. Is the plane getting close to the run to the landing zone and i flew on delta and i had weather delays both ways and the people at delta airlines can i tell you something everybody was amazing the people who are working the gate the people checking you in the people on the plane all the attendants everybody was amazing no i feel like in that moment i thought all these people they get so much shit the time, and every one of these people was so fucking good,

and I want them to, and I thought,

like, they need to know that they were doing a good job.

I got no skin in this game, other than to say

they were really nice people. Somebody had a real

nice Easter, I guess, huh?

Yeah, I did. I did with

the kids and stuff. It was nice, but, you know.

Is this before or after you got in a huge fight with

the flight attendants? Well, all I'm saying is, look at the footage. I didn't start it.
My mask was on. No, it was, honestly, these people were so amazing.
I just thought, why don't they just get some love? How about we just start going, hey, these people were great at their job. I love that.
I love that. So that's it.
Well, you're preaching in the choir. You know, my mother was a flight attendant for Pan Am all those years.
That's right.

And they don't get their due.

You know what, Jason?

Somebody asked me about this today, true story.

Did your mom and dad meet on a flight, true story?

No, but they did meet.

My dad and his buddy went to what they were told was a stewardess party there in New York.

Yeah, and they were like, well, let's go get laid.

And they both found their wives there. Wow.
No kidding. Yeah.
And it was just a party of stewardess, of flight attendants, female flight attendants. In those days, it was stewardess.
Pan Am, too, you know, with that bowler hat and that little powder blue outfit. Wow.
Pretty top level. Never knew that.
I can't wait to interview you. It's going to be so exciting.
Gang, today brings us a fella that I've been watching and studying and admiring for as long as I can remember. He is an incredible actor in both comedy and drama and is equally talented as a director in both genres as well.
At just nine years old, he was immediately one to watch when he shot from the canon on the short-lived but much-loved series, Kate McShane. Sean, huh? Kate McShane.
And at 15, he doubled down with a shocking arc on the subversive yet sexy Guiding Light. What? After a brief and inspired take on adult films called The Hustler of Money, he found work at Saturday Night Live.
Not seeing what he was looking for there, he went on to bring us some of our favorite characters in both television and film. Characters like Garth Motherloving, Caca Peepoo, Silly Sammy, Gaylord, Chaz, Derek, guitar-setter guy, and the deeply sensitive, intuitive, magical Tony Wonder.
Please welcome Jerry and Anne's boy,

Mr. Ben Franklin Stiller.

Oh my.

Ben.

Jesus.

Oh, look.

I like you pulled out the Kate McShane.

That's pretty good.

Listen, Wikipedia really brings all the deep research when you need it.

And I didn't know your middle name was Franklin.

What a hoot. No, my middle name is Edward Mira.
I know. I know.
But wouldn't it be great if it was Franklin too? Benjamin Franklin Stiller. Come on.
Coming out with a laugh? That's Jerry and Anne's work. First of all, I love the show, guys.
Thank you, Matt. And it's really fun to be here.
Yeah. But I was listening to how it gets ramped up, and I couldn't tell where it started.
Yeah. So the chemistry feels very real.
It's like a real thing. It's not something you guys put on for the show.
No. As you see, we just connect.
We just start rolling, and there's no method to it. God, it's the dumbest.
Pure stupid stupidity. But Will, you look like you're doing

a confessional

for The Bachelor.

Let me hold up a sign

and say that

you haven't been beaten.

I'm in an office,

I'm in an office,

in a production office.

You've got good

lighting there, though.

It's not bad.

Really good lighting.

Ben, are you

in Bruce Wayne's library?

I am in my room, my office, at my house in New York in Westchester. Oh, wonderful.
Yeah, it does have that kind of vibe. So you're still up there in Westchester, Ben? Yes, for I guess like the last 12 or 13 years.
We kind of go back and forth between New York City and Westchester. That's nice.
I feel like, Jason, like the last time that we had dinner or hung out was when we were moving from L.A. back to New York.
And do you remember this? Walk me through it. But we had dinner.
I forget who else was there. I don't remember much.
Remind him of your name one more time, too. That would be good.
I think J.J. Abrams was at the restaurant and came over and said hello.
That's what I remember. And then you said, I feel like you made a joke about like you're moving to New York, but you'll be back like in a year and a half or something.
Do you remember that? I'm shocked that I don't remember that. Was I drinking still at the time? I think we both were.
No, I...

At least 20 years ago.

Yeah.

No, but we have been...

I've loved being in New York

for the last...

I'm so jealous

that you lived there.

Yeah.

Because the Westchester...

First of all,

I was born in Rye,

so I guess that's the reason

I've got some sort of

hankering to get back there.

And you've stayed in Rye

this whole time, buddy.

Yeah.

You flipped the spelling, but you stayed right in it. I mean...
Did you go to Rye Playland as a kid? So they say. I left when I was two.
But I've been back there. I actually shot at Playland.
Oh, you did? We shot some of a film there. So it's still open.
It's still happening. It's still open, but it's so pretty up in there.
And where you guys are, it's just like... This is how, Sean, you'd know, Rye, this is where the New York Rangers practice facility is.
Oh, God, I think I have some photos. I have some photos of me back then.
Ben, do you remember the last time we had dinner? Uh-oh. Oh, no.
Say yes. I love that it's a circle of people who don't remember having dinner with me.
Do you remember it? No, I don't. We've never had dinner.
It never happened. I know it never happened.
Could you imagine, Ben, if you were like, yes, it was wonderful, thank you for paying. Will, do you remember the last time we had lunch? Wait, I do, actually.
Would it have been during a lunch break on Arrested Development? No, it was at the Chateau, and we were talking about Burt Wonderstone. Yeah, oh, yes, yeah, wow.
How about this? How about I remembered and you didn't? Nobody can stump me for memory. Was Stuart Twarnzel there? I feel like he might have been.
Do you want to know, wait for one second, Ben, that's one of my favorite comedies of all time, Burt Wonderstone. I think it's hysterical.
This is Steve Carell as well, yes? Yeah, right. And is Jim Carrey as well? No.
I never saw it. You're confiding.
Ben, we talked about it. Ben and I talked about it years ago when I was still on Arrested Development.
Yeah. And we talked about it.
I think Stuart was there, as Farrell calls him, old red beard. And every morning we were on Blades of Glory, Ben, which you produced, as you know, with Stuart.
And Farrell would walk up to Stuart and grab him by the beard and goes, it looks so real. Rest in peace, sweet Stu.
He was my producing partner for about a long time. And he was an amazing guy.
Loved that, man. Fascinating, fascinating guy.
So, Ben, now you've been, I feel like you have just gone down the directing hole. By the way, that's in a good way.
You've just, it seems like you're just directing series and movies all the time, and it's like, are you ever going to emerge again as Ben Stiller, comedic, humongous comedic star? Ben, he gets on me about this too. Don't let him beat you up.
I'm trying to crawl out of the directing hole. It's a deep hole.
I don't buy it. I like it.
I like being in the hole. I mean, I do enjoy it.
Keep it clean. And I try to not think about acting when I'm directing.
I actually don't worry about it when I'm directing. I enjoy just directing.
Because a lot of years I spent, you know, directing and acting, which you do, Jason, incredibly well. And I do remember another interchange we had a couple years ago, maybe like three years ago.
That's an accurate way of describing spending time with Bateman. Interchange.
Yeah, an interchange we had about directing. It was the night you won directing Emmy.
Yes. Well-deserved.
Thank you, sir. And you were talking about directing and acting, and you said that you like it because you feel like it takes out the middleman.
That, yeah, and it's one less actor you've got to have this sometimes delicate, creative negotiation with. Yeah.
You're kind of making it sound easy. I think it's not that easy, and I feel like you're able to do it very well.
But, Ben, I would say this, though, Ben. As Jason said, it cuts out that long conversation.
And, Jason, in your case, it cuts out, if you've ever acted with Jason, it cuts out the 30 minutes of questions from Jason. He's his own worst, you know, director or actor.
Isn't it fun watching me ask myself questions, though? Because what I do is I switch over to the other side and I answer it and then I come on. What he likes to do is go like, well, this is a really simple situation.
There must be a complicated reason for why it's like this. But Ben...
Do you like to watch playback of yourself? Do you do that? Because I worked with a director-actor once a long time ago who loved to watch himself in playback. And we would just watch him watch himself and laugh at himself.
Yeah, no, that's really... I'd love three guesses at that.
No, I won't do that, but don't you... I mean, I've been trying to do what you do from an acting standpoint my whole career.
And that is basically this great proxy for the audience. You are the audience.
You are the everyman. You are the straight man.
You are the person the camera needs to cut to after something outrageous has happened or something traumatic has happened or something like that. So don't you find that when you were acting and directing that you had this great sort of ease that you knew that the grounding element was taken care of, that you didn't have to worry that there was going to be this person at the center that is normal so you could take these bigger swings comedically around with the other characters and stuff? Sometimes I felt like that.
I mean, I did feel like once it came around to having to do my stuff, I kind of had a sense of what I wanted to do. But I also felt a lot of the time, and maybe it's because I did it over a number of years and sort of got to the point where I just, it felt like a lot of work to then have to jump, like set up the shot and then jump in front of the camera.
And then you have to act. Then you have to do it.
And I felt like that was harder to do than, I felt like I couldn't concentrate on both. And the first day that I started on Escape at Dan O'Re, which is like the first thing I directed I didn't act in, the first day I was so happy.
I was so relieved. Not like to set up a shot and then not have to jump in front and sort of care what, you know, like my hair was and all that stuff.
But isn't acting, acting seems as comfortable for you as it is for me. I'm not saying it's easy, but it seems comfortable enough for you where it wasn't that much of an effort to act.
And instead it was actually here's somebody who's in front of the camera that is mindful of all the other technical things that are going on that you can actually help by how you are acting or by hitting that mark or not shadowing that person? Or do you find that it was nice to have a soldier there that was taking care of all this stuff for you? A soldier in myself, you mean? Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Somebody that's making it all kind of come together. Yeah, but I never really thought about it that way because I felt like, okay, that's just part of everything that's going on, you know? I mean, what think, though, when you're doing it and you're directing? Guys, we're going to be with you in one second.
No, no, no. You know what? This is fascinating because this is much more.
Is it though? I'm waiting for somebody to start snoring. It's much more of a deep dive into how Jason works than you at every moment.
And what's great is that his acting ambition is to just provide a blank slate for the audience to cut to. I mean, what an artistic objective to have.
Fucking great. I just want to give them something.
Just a cut point. Somebody cannot lock the light.
His nickname has become Cutpoint, which is great. You'd think that he'd be insulted by it.
Now, Ben, alright, so there's no acting. Wait, wait, I'm just going to say this, Jason, kind of to what you were saying, Jason, which is, I don't know if it's entirely true.
You have played characters who have been at the center of a bunch of insane situations, who are sort of put upon, but you've also, your bread and butter has also been playing characters who are completely unhinged or completely out there. You've actually moved quite seamlessly between the two.
And I wonder, I actually have always wondered, like, which do you like playing? Just a bunch of characters are going through my head right now. I know, same here.
Between unhinged and blank slate, yeah. Yeah, between unhinged and blank slate.
What would you rather do? Because the robot loves Big Blank Slate. Go ahead.
I enjoy, I mean, honestly, it's been a few years. I never thought I'd go this long in my life without acting, really.
It's been like five or six years. And I never, just as an actor over the years, thought, oh, I take that much time off.
And I think when I look back at it, I enjoyed, I enjoyed all of it, enjoyed the different, you know, some of those broader characters were, you know, tonally things that are just so like over the top that I felt like it was like more fun to do that kind of thing. But then I'd also enjoy being in somebody else's movie where I could just be, you know, a real human being and try to also like kind of maybe not have worry about really, maybe not be as self-aware about what I was doing.
Right. Do you ever get like, all four of us, we all produce stuff as well, right? And I find myself, when I'm producing something and an actor has an issue or wants to discuss, I'm like, God, I don't want to fucking deal with that.
They're crazy. Actors are fucking crazy.
And then I'm an actor in something, and I turn into a crazy person. Do you feel that way when you direct? Are you like, I know how to deal with this kind of situation or this pathos of this human being because I've been there? It's just shorthand, right? Yeah, I mean, I think that's what Jason is saying.
You don't have to worry about that with yourself. You can just kind of do your thing.
But Jason, you have to deal with this. And when you're directing and acting with other actors, how, you know, every actor has their own thing, has their own point of view where they're coming from.
And you have to figure out how to connect with them. And sometimes when you're acting in a scene with them and you have to also give them something or try to give them some direction, that can be, I mean imagine on the show since you've worked with the same actors for a long time you guys have a sort of a shorthand yeah yeah but then you but then there's also there's the the day players as well that you don't have that history with or any other project where yeah it's you know there is there's a different uh thing you need to do as a director as opposed to an actor uh for sure with with respect to making sure people are comfortable.
But there's also that thing, Jay, I mean, I don't know, Ben, I don't know how much of the stuff that you directed, you also wrote. I did a short-lived series, two seasons, called Flake that we did on Netflix, a little small show.
Hold for applause, please. No, no, no, there's no applause to be had.
But it was like, it was an experimentation. It was an experiment, and I don't know.
But we... It great.
But having written it, thank you. But I wrote it and then show ran it and acted in it and then second season directed.
So I'd be in the scene with another actor and great. I loved everybody who we had on the show and they were great.
However. However, having written the scene.
And so then I've already got it coming from that and then show running and then thinking about, well, we're never going to use this. So I was constantly in that and I found it very difficult sometimes.
The last thing on the list was acting in the scene. And I felt like that was the thing that was like, I should be paying more attention to the acting in the scene but I'm thinking about all these other things first.
Yeah, and ironically, that's the most important thing at the end of the day. you know? At the end of the day.
That's what I would feel like, okay, at the end of the day, I have to make sure that I'm present in the scene and somehow connecting and, you know, that's... Well, like, I was going to say, so Tropic Thunder, for instance, who you wrote with all of our good friends.
Hold for applause, massive applause. Justin Theroux, who's not a listener of the show, so we can mention...
we want about the guy. Right? I heard the Justin episode that you guys did.
Yeah. Sorry about that.
And talk about a guy who gets down to it and you guys wrote it, wrote together and he got down into it and if he had sleeves, he would have rolled them up. Yeah.
But you guys, you guys. He owns no sleeves.
He doesn't own any. No sleeves.
He owns no sleeves. Didn't you almost buy him a box of sleeves for Christmas I did I did for Christmas and I was gonna buy him yeah Ben I was gonna buy him a box of sleeves but if you had such veiny biceps come on would you have sleeves yeah that's true at 50 I mean the guy looks like he's 29 beautiful veiny biceps he's beautiful he's gorgeous he sent us a photo yesterday to Jason and me from the the jungle Mexico.
He's wearing a hat and he said, I'm jonesing for adventure. And then you sort of see the whole photo.
He said, Indiana jonesing. And I was like, hey, buddy, I didn't know there was a Nick Fouquet hat store down in the jungle.
But anyway, my point is this. You write Tropic Thunder and then you're in the scene.
Do you have those moments when you're in a scene as the writer where you're going, huh, this is going differently than I thought? Yeah, I mean, I think it just comes down to it when you're doing the scene. What's going to make the scene work? Does it feel like it's working, you know? And it becomes its own thing.
And I think that's, no matter what, even if you are the writer and you're not in it, you have to let go of your idea of what the scene, you think the scene was or what you wrote and just look at

what's happening in front of you, right?

As a director and then figure out how to

find the life in it in the moment.

Which is, I think that's just directing.

Can I ask you something? First of all, Ben,

I have to say, you're one of those

actors that I've always looked up to my

whole life and one of those people.

You know, we all have those kind of

inspirational, especially in comedy

and I was like, oh my god, I would kill to have

Ben Stiller's career. He seems like

Thank you. whole life and one of those people you know we all have those kind of inspirational especially in comedy and i was like oh my god i would kill to have ben stiller's career he seems like such a great guy he's super talented you actually said i'd kill ben to have his career that's what you said that was the actual quote just to be and then going on to directing and i was like wow that's that's just so cool i'm getting to my favorite show of, one of my favorite shows of all time now is Severance.
I don't know if anybody's seen it. Of course, it's incredible.
It's amazing. I don't know if you know I'm in a play with one of your lead actors now.
Tramiel Tillman, right? Tramiel Tillman, yeah, he's amazing. Incredible.
Don't say anything about that. I haven't finished it yet.
Oh, oh, oh, okay. But can you please, just as a huge, huge fan of you and that show, tell me the genesis of how that came about.
Without ruining the ending thing. So, you know, in the finale, no.
I would kill you. It's incredible.
By the way, that finale is amazing. No, it's a great show business story.
The writer, Dan Erickson, had been trying to get something produced as a writer for a while, and he sent the script to our production company. This is five-plus years ago.
He sent as a writing sample. Wow.
And Jackie Cohn, who's the creative executive of our company, gave it to Nikki Weinstein, who was working in the company, and we read it and was like, this is great. It's a great writing sample, but I was like, this would be a great show.
And so we just got it set up at Apple. They were the only people who wanted to develop it.
You know how you have a piece of material, you take it around town, you pitch it, and you see who wants to do it. And I find that a lot of the time, usually just one or two places that want to do something.
They were the ones who wanted to do it. They were just starting up.
They didn't really exist yet.

And Christopher Walken, John Turturro,

Patricia Arquette, Adam Scott.

I mean, the cast is... Tremell Tillman.
The cast is amazing.

I didn't know Chris Walken was in it yet, because I'm only...

Nice going, John.

We're going to fucking go. I'm going to kill you.

Help, help, help.

You're one episode in.

No, I'm three episodes in.

That's incredible. It's such a great show.
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Hey, guys, everybody should have a support system, right? Who's your support system? My support system, as you well know, talk about all the time, is Scotty. And of course, my two besties, Will and Jason.
Whenever I have a problem, an issue, I talk to them about it. And if they're not available, I will talk to a therapist.
And I've been going to therapy for a long time and it's always great. So think about your favorite leaders, mentors, and idols.
They don't have all the answers, but they do know when to ask questions or seek support from their community. In a society that glorifies hyper independence, it's easy to forget that we're all better when we have a support system behind us.
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That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash smartlist. And now back to the show.
When you look at something as precise as what Severance is, as far as filmmaking goes, who is that inside you? Where did that guy grow from somebody who was a child of two incredible comedy stars? and you coming up in sort of sketch world,

and then pure comedy world,

and then maybe some dramatic work.

And like, how did that muscle sort of develop in you

where it was like, you're such an incredible filmmaker,

the precision and the focus to detail,

and camera work, and sound, and lighting, and all of this stuff. Where did that, how did that develop? I mean, I feel like it's always been a part of what I love since I was a kid.
And I don't know, I'm curious, I'm not just throwing this back to you, Jason, but since you do this, like you've always, have you always loved directing? I have, yeah. Yeah, right? Since you were a kid? But did it come like I did where it was just from watching people around on the set like, oh my God, look how you make fake life.
It's like I became fascinated with what a crew does. Like a cast and stuff, acting and all that stuff.
Yeah, yeah. But that was familiar to me.
But seeing how people created like, oh, this is how you make an audience a little bit scared. You put the camera on your shoulder and you get like all these little tricks.
And I love that. I loved all of the nuts and bolts of filmmaking as a kid.
I would get American cinematographer. You mentioned Kate McShane, my early credit.
That was my mother's show. My mother had a series on CBS, an hour drama where she played an Irish lawyer who, you know, solved cases every week and only lasted for half a season.
But I remember going on the set of that at Paramount Studios and I played Susan Strasberg's son, who was Lee Strasberg's daughter. And yeah.
And I had one scene, I was, you know, nine years old. And I remember I was waiting around a corner on the set.
I remember how the set smelled, how the fresh paint and the lights. And there was a cue light for me.
That was, when the light, when the red light, yeah, when the red light went off, then I would go in. And I just remember thinking, oh, that is so cool.
And I was just fascinated with all of it and special effects makeup and, you know, just the process. So it was always, you know, I was obsessed with all those Planet of the Apes movies and Poseidon Adventure and all that.
So actually the outside part of it, sort of the mechanics of it, was more interesting to me at first than the actual telling of stories or expressing some sort of, you know, emotion. It was more about that stuff.
And for a while I thought I wanted to be a cinematographer when I was a kid. But both of you guys had very, so if you think about it, you explained, you guys had very, not the same trajectory, but you had very, there was similar that you were both young.
Jason told this story recently how the first time when he lost his virginity, he had a cue light. Isn't that right, Jason? Yeah.
And I said, can we just hold the cue just a little bit longer for me? And they kept telling him you jumped your cue, you jumped your cue. But that was...
The light started flashing. Premature cue light, huh? Yeah, but I mean, both your parents were, of course, your mom and dad, your mom who I had the pleasure of knowing a little bit, and I did that movie with her years ago, Southie, with the great Ann Mira, and a lovely lady, and was always so kind and sweet whenever I interacted with her.
And then your dad, of course, was just the great Jerry Stiller. I mean, you grew up with these, you know, these people, these comedy, you grew up in a comedy environment and to Jason's point, in a cinema environment.
And Jason, your dad was a director and a writer and your sister was an actor and is an actor. And you, you guys both grew up in it.
Was there any other way for you to go but to both become directors? I don't think so. Or just staying in this business.
I mean, I would have been screwed, you know, if I was forced to do anything else. I never thought about doing anything else.
You know, for better or for worse. Did you go to college? Did you get a degree in anything else? No.
I went to UCLA for nine months and then I quit. I went to the acting drama department because I wanted to go to the filmmaking department.
But it didn't start until junior year back then. And I couldn't get into USC film school.
And I had not great grades. So I went to UCLA, which I had good enough grades to go there.
Harder to get into UCLA now. Yeah, yeah.
Is that true? I did not do well there. I just sort of didn't assimilate.
And I kind of just was like, well, I wanted to be doing it. So I quit and came back to New York.
So then did you feel a pressure just to make ends meet knowing that, okay, now I'm all in. I'm not going to study any other career.
I'm quitting college. I'm moving to New York.
Did you have that sense of like, well, I'm going to have to make rent and provide? My parents were like, you could come home, stay home and figure it out. And, you know, they didn't kick me out.
They didn't kick me out. But there was that feeling when I came back, when I finally quit school.
And I remember just coming back to my parents' apartment and then just like, and thinking, now what? Now what do I do? How do I go forward? And so I started, you know, I worked as a busboy at a restaurant on Columbus Avenue. And then I started going to acting classes and started auditioning, but it took me about three years to actually get any work.
Did you worry that you were going to get out from under the immense shadow of your parents?

I don't, I, you know, I guess somewhere I did, but I think when you're that young and you just sort of have this idea of what you want to do, you don't think about it that

way.

Yeah.

I don't know how you felt, but I just never, I never thought about it that way.

I knew that I had to figure out how to do my thing, but, and it was a little bit sometimes

daunting because I would go in and, you know, sometimes you're not, when you're not anonymous

and you're not, and I wasn't very good too.

I wasn't great at auditioning.

I'm going to go. a little bit sometimes daunting because I would go in and sometimes when you're not anonymous and I wasn't very good too.
I wasn't great at auditioning. I wasn't really that comfortable as an actor.
And so I would sort of fail a lot and not anonymously. Be like, oh, Jerry Nanskid came in and he wasn't that great.
Did you ever see your mom or dad with the ups and downs of getting parts, not getting jobs, struggling here and there, then maybe soaring and then maybe coming back down? All the rollercoaster of doing the business, did that ever sway you from not wanting to do it? No, it didn't. I mean, I was, I don't, you know, at that time I was so thinking about my own thing and, like, where I was, I wasn't even thinking about where my parents were because they were who they were.
But when I look back at it now and I've been working on a documentary about my parents. Oh, that's cool.
That's really cool. And it's been really interesting to kind of, you know, kind of look at their, you know, my dad saved everything.
So there's so much footage and writing and all these great, you know, archives of stuff that they had. But they were going through kind of a tougher time when I quit school and came back.
And they were trying to figure out who they were at that point in their career. But I was so unaware of that because I was just thinking of my own thing.
And now when I look back at it, you know, they were having to figure out, like, I was probably, I'm now my dad's age when I came home from school, you know? And I'm thinking about what he was doing then and trying to find himself. Not until Seinfeld, really, because he loved performing.
he just loved doing it and at that time that was pre-Seinfeld he was sort of trying to figure out not being in the comedy act by mom anymore you know how to figure it out Ben do you ever wonder about just sort of in the context of your own relationship to your parents who were performers and then your kids and think about what their perspective is of you guys or Jason, do you think about it? Because I've thought about it a few times now, especially as the kids are getting older and becoming teenagers, about how, what a weird, I always make the joke when the kids come to, anytime they come to work with me, I'm like, hey, is it fun watching dad get his makeup put on? You know, because how fucking weird is that? Or watching them, you know, 50 people trying to make my hair look okay, and then like, Will, put that other shirt on, like in front of my son, who's 13. He must be like, what is going on? Do you guys think about that? I don't.
I don't. I don't.
You know? Just because you're used to it? Yeah. Well, I think they get it at this age now, I guess.
But it is odd, for sure. Yeah.
I mean, my kids are, my daughter's 20 and my son's going to be 17. And they both have very, you know, clear points of view on show business and acting and, you know, their perception of my career and Christine's career.
And, you know, they've grown up around it. So they have their own ideas about it, which is interesting to me.
And they've, they've watched all of that stuff. And I think it is, a lot of it is kind of weird, but it's also, they see the perspective on it too.
And, you know, that I love doing it. And I think they get the positive part of it too.
But it's something that I grew up with too. I was around my parents getting makeup on and all these visceral memories of that and loving it.
You know, like loving being around the backstage of it and all that. Because it's different.
They're not going to an office. You mentioned Christine, of course.
Jason and I know Christine very well from Arrested Development days. Yes.
Yeah, yeah. And we got to spend a lot of time with her and amazing, just awesome.
And every time I think about, the other thing I think about when I think about you and Arrested Development, it reminds me of the Ben Stiller show because you guys were on the air for one year and you won the Emmy for best comedy. That's right.
Which is, which is very, it was crazy because we'd already been canceled too. We were already been canceled.
And so when we won, David Cross said to Jason, I mean, I don't know if Jason remember, like, oh, this doesn't look good. I've been down this path before.
Right. Talk to me a little, talk to us a little bit about the Ben Stiller show, how it came to be and how it burned so bright and so quickly.
Now was this, this was before or after SNL? This was after SNL. I was, I was at SNL six weeks.
Six weeks. Oh my God.
And why did you jump? Yeah, go SNL first. I mean, it's...
You've probably told this story a million times. I'm so sorry.
Well, you know, yeah, no. I basically got on SNL because I made a short film that was a takeoff on The Color of Money, which was called The Hustler of Money.
This is the adult film. Yes, and I was doing an impression of Tom Cruise and Jim Downey, who was the head writer at the time, he liked it and Lorne put it on the air.
And then they said, you can come and audition and be an apprentice writer and a featured player. And I wanted to make short films.
I wanted to direct little films like Albert Brooks did, And, you know, which I grew up watching and thinking that's, you know, that's the funniest thing. Like him doing, you know, the new fall season where he'd, you know, make fun of the shows and the shows were coming out and things like that.
And they weren't doing that at the time. It was pre all the Lonely Island guys and all that.
So I was just there as like as a featured player and I was not great at live performing.

I did not like it.

I would get nervous.

I didn't feel like I could really do my thing, and it was hard to navigate.

And I had a chance to do what I wanted to do on MTV,

because MTV was doing these little half-video shows.

Basically, if you showed videos, you could do comedy sketches, but it had to be half-and-half videos and comedy. And so they were basically saying, if you want to do that, you can do that here.
So I decided to go do that. Who championed you at MTV? Do you remember? Well, I mean, Doug Herzog.
Yeah, he was great. You know, running the network.
He was great. And Freston, too.
Yeah, Tom Freston. He gave us a shot.
The great Tom Freston. Yeah.
The most interesting man in the world, Tom Freston, by the way. Inspired that whole campaign for Dos Equis.
He really is. Not a lot of people know that.
Yeah, he is. He truly is.
I've never really known him that well, but he always seems incredibly intriguing. He's the best guy.
He's the most interesting. You can walk into a room with the biggest music stars on the planet, and everybody just wants to talk to Freston.
Yeah. It's a true story.
And that was an interesting time at MTV because they were just starting to do programming. So they let us do our thing, and then from that, someone at the fledgling Fox network saw what we were doing and said, hey, come and develop something.
HBO was producing it, Chris Albrecht, who was an executive at HBO, and we were doing it for HBO and Fox, HBO Independent Production. So we were basically for like two years developing this sketch show.
And we did like three pilots for it. Every time we couldn't figure out, they couldn't figure out what was the best way to frame the show.
Who was writing that with you? It was you. You were at the helm.
Capital and Odenkirk. First it was me and Jeff Kahn,

who was my roommate and writing partner.

And we were doing an act

that we then turned into that MTV show.

And then I met Judd.

Yeah.

And Judd and I clicked.

He was doing stand-up.

And I think he was doing like

the Young Comedian special or something.

And we just started hanging out.

And I was going and hanging out at the improv

and watching Janine Garofalo and Bob. And Bob and I had met at SNL when I was there.
And he was writing at the time with Conan. Was Andy Dick doing stand-up? Andy Dick was actually in Chicago at the time.
And I did a movie in Chicago called Next of Kin, this Patrick Swayze movie. And I made a short while I was there.
And I met Andy Dick. Andy Dick came, yeah, and literally Andy Dick, the way I met Andy Dick was I was at my hotel in Chicago and he knocked on the door.
I opened the door and there was just an infant laying on the floor in the hallway. He left his infant son on the floor.
For a gag. Yeah, for a gag.
Who I later adopted and no. So yeah, yeah, so anyway, that's how the group came together.
That's crazy. Wait, so you do, I just want to get, you've got this whole crew, because I just love the genesis of all this.
So you've got, it's like you and Bob and Judd, and you're doing the Ben Seeler show. You guys get canceled.
You win the Emmy for Best Comedy

after the show's canceled,

which is like, what was your speech?

Like, hey, fuck you, Fox?

Something like that.

It wasn't very articulate.

I think it was like, hey, Fox,

you missed something here or something.

Yeah.

So then you do that.

That'll show them.

Do you go right onto Reality Bites after that?

Well, I was going to say, so within a couple years,

you go onto Reality Bites, which you direct.

Did you write Reality Bites?

Your first film as a director, right?

No.

Helen Childress wrote it.

Yes, it was my first film as a director.

I'd been developing it while we were working on the Ben Stiller show

with Helen, who wrote it about her life.

And then the show got canceled,

and just about the time, Winona Ryder said she wanted to do the movie, which made it happen. So that was the reason it happened.
Wasn't Jon Stewart in that as well? Jon Stewart? No. No? Who was in that film? In Reality Bias? Yeah, name the cast.
Ethan Hawke. Oh, yeah.
I always get those two confused. It always happens to me.
I'm an Ethan Hawke fan. I'm going to go on the record and say I'm an Ethan Hawke fan.

Ethan's amazing.

Yeah, so good. He's amazing.

So tough.

Did you see him do True West recently?

No, I wanted to so bad.

With Paul Dan.

Oh, my God.

I've been observing a thing called the pandemic, Ben.

Go on.

It's pre-pandemic.

Jesus Christ.

Did I go to the thing?

What are you talking about?

Do we go right into there's something about Mary after Reality Bites?

No.

If so, no. No, no, no.
There's like a five-year gap there. Where to go, Jason? You're a guest.
Yeah. Where to go? Sorry.
Well, it's Wikipedia. It's their fault.
Was Cable Guy before there's something about Mary? Yes. Yes.
Okay. So that was your second film that you directed.
Yeah, Cable Guy. Incredible film.
I loved that film, too. Yeah, I loved it.
Not really well-received at the time. They just didn't get it.
They didn't get it at the time. Oh, I thought it was fantastic.
Just like the Ben Stiller show. Ben, did you put, we're firing away questions now.
Did you put Cable Guy, Owen Wilson's in there in a small role? That's right. That's how I met Owen.
And it was right after Bottle Rocket because that came out about 95. That's exactly right.
I'm so good with dates. I saw the Bottle Rocket short.
There was a black and white Bottle Rocket short that Wes made, yeah. Incredible.
Incredible. And the film, Bottle Rocket, is one of the best films.
And I remember one time, here's my recollections of Owen Wilson. I see that movie.
I was living in New York at the time. I was like, this is fucking cool, this movie these assholes made.
And then I go to LA and I happen to see him like at Valet. And I'm like, look at that.
That's the guy from Bottle Rocket. And then he's in Cable Guy.
And then I'm like. I sort of fell in love with Owen Will.
I was like, this guy is the funniest guy I've ever seen. Yeah, he's smooth.
I went to see Bottle Rocket by myself at Century City Theater or something. And I had just hired him for Cable Guy.

And I watched that movie and I started laughing like five minutes in by myself for the whole movie.

I was like, this is the funniest.

Like, oh my God, this guy is incredible.

It's so funny.

His delivery was so peculiar.

Oh, man.

I know.

Oh, man.

So how many films have you done with him?

And was the next one after Cable Guy,

did you guys work together again before Starsky and Hutchutch i'm stressing out now because i can't remember let me see zoolander zoolander was 2001 yeah we did i mean the we did a movie called permanent midnight yes which where it was like this little indie uh where i played jerry stall who was a comedy writer who was addicted to heroin and he played my best friend in in that. That was 98.
Who wrote on Elf. Yeah, exactly.
Which my mom was on, actually. And then, what did we do? We did, and then we did Zoolander together, which was like 2000, 2001.
Then I think Starsky and Hutch was after that, which was, of course, Jason. You've probably done like, what, six with him? Seven with him? I think somebody said we've done like 11.
No way. Right, because then you did all the Night at the Museum movies together.
Exactly, that's three there. Except we never actually worked together because he was like a little person in it.
Oh, yes, right, right, right, right, like a little figurine. So I would go.
Oh, that's right. This is how they would work.
It's like we would go to the Museum of Natural History in New York at the beginning for a day or maybe two days to shoot the exteriors. Then we would go to Vancouver for five months

in the middle of winter and be in the studio

where it was the fake museum.

And then Owen would come in the last three days

and shoot all of his stuff and steal the movie.

Against a green screen.

Yeah, exactly.

With the incredible Canadian rocket ship, Sean Levy.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

I love him.

The ball of fire.

I auditioned for the sequel,

The Night at the Museum 2. Really? And I went in and read for Sean Levy.
Oh, my God. Yeah.
I love him. The ball of fire.
I auditioned for the sequel, The Night at the Museum 2. Really? And I went in and read for Sean Levy.
And I go, you know what I mean? I did the scene, and I go, you know what I mean? It would be funny if this thing and this, and I took out the thing here, and I did this. And he goes, yeah, you want to direct it? Thanks for coming.
No, seriously? Yeah, I came in with too many ideas. He's got a sneaky knife there in that Canadian kind suit of his.
He sure does. He'll whip it out every once in a while.
He's a friend of the program. He's a friend of the program.
Sean's a friend of the program. Oh, yeah, I know.
He's great. He's great.
So what did you answer? Did you say yes? You wanted to direct it? Because what an opportunity. By the way, she's the opportunity.
We bonded on that movie.

So Ben, how hard was it?

Do you wish, regret-wise, career,

do you wish cut Bateman out of Starsky? Would that be up there?

Simple. It's a real easy cut.

Not a lot of trimming.

But then you guys also do, I was joking,

because you guys did a few movies. You also did

Dodgeball. That's right.

That was an afternoon. Yeah, but I feel like that afternoon really made a mark.
I mean, I see the memes. It helped me.
Jason, you were hilarious in that. Thank you.
That was during a lunch hour from Arrested Development. Really? Are you serious? I remember that.
Yeah. I drove down to it.
Where did we shoot it? Like the Rose Bowl, I think. It was, well, oh, did you do that at the Rose Bowl? Because we also shot down in Long Beach, too.
Yeah, one of the two. I mean, really, that was really fun.
That was a really fun experience. I remember walking out of that screening.
I was sitting next to Todd Phillips at the screening, the premiere of that in Westwood. I remember watching it, and I had no idea what the movie was.
Again, I was only there for half an hour, you know, doing this, you know, basically a lock off me behind a microphone playing some idiot color announcer. and I had no idea what the movie was i mean again i was only there for half an hour you know doing doing this you know basically a lock off me behind a microphone playing some idiot color announcer and i had no idea what the color of the tone the comedic tone of that and so i didn't really know what the film was about till i saw the screening and and we finished the screening and and obviously the name of the movie is dodgeball very very funny yeah incredibly broad but i guess i just wasn't prepared for the the style the flavor of humor i remember walking out with todd phillips and doing the taboo thing when you're going up the aisle way talking about the film you know and i i said no i said boy i don't know i mean what do you think he's like i thought it was pretty damn good i go really he said yeah i said i'll tell you what todd i'll make you a hundred dollar bet this thing doesn't do a dollar over 50.
He goes, I'll bet you $1,000. I said, you're on.
I think it does. What does it do? Like, I think it did that in the first weekend or something.
It did well. It actually, yeah, it opened number one.
I know that. It was surprising.
My God, what a force. That fucking one is so funny.
Jason, did you pay him $1,000? I don't think so. No.
Todd's doing okay. That's why he's Todd Phillips.
Come on. Yeah.
Come on. Yeah, you owe him $1,000 and he can come get it.
That's funny though, Jason, because I feel like you totally hit the tone of the movie without knowing it. In fact, Jason, you had your own little movie going, which is amazing.
I remember when I first got to the set, I remember going down, I found you and Ross in Video Village. You guys were shooting a different scene, and I got there a little early to get into makeup because my hair had to get all spiked up and stuff.
And so I was like, so guys, so the spiky hair, like that's the tone, that's the funny. And you guys were both like, yeah, yeah.
I go, huh. And then I don't know whether it was my idea or Ross's or yours maybe, Ben.
I said, well, like, is it like, would this guy have like a flaming neck tattoo of like a dodgeball on it? And they were like, yes, do that. Like a flaming dodgeball neck tattoo.
I was like, I think I got the tone now. I think I get it.
Yeah. You know who never really understood was Rip Torn, who was so funny in the movie.
He never got, and my brother-in-law was in charge, Brian Taylor was in charge of taking care of him for the movie. Like he was sort of like his handler.
He's his own tone. Yeah.
and he never really you know he never he never he never he never he never he never he never he never he never he never he never he never he never he never he never he never he never

he never

he never

he never

he never

he never really jumped on board, but he was so funny because he was just being ripped torn. My favorite ripped torn story was, I remember Jeffrey on Arrested telling us, when they were doing Larry Sanders, they were in their last season, and they decided that they're going to get Gary Shandling.
Everybody's going to chip in and buy him a car. They've done this show for five, six seasons.
And everybody's going to chip in as this big rep and as a thank you to Gary, they're going to get him a car. So Jeffrey's tasked with going to get it, and he goes up to Rip's dressing room, and he knocks on the dressing room door, and he goes, Rip opens it and goes, Yeah, what? And he goes, oh, hey, Rip, we're all pitching in.

We're going to get Gary a gift for a wrap for the whole series.

And he goes, oh, yeah?

Where are we going to get him?

And he goes, well, we've decided we're all going to chip in.

We're going to get him in a car.

Rip looks at him and goes, go fuck yourself.

He slams a door shut on him.

His answer was go fuck yourself. I think one day on set he decided he was just going to go fishing.
He like left to go fishing. It's the middle of a shoot day.
It did. And we will be right back.
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And now back to the show. When you read the script for There's Something About Mary, did you have, like, incredible faith in those directors, writers, that it was all going to be a target that is hit? Or it seemed like a big swing? It was, yeah.
I remember reading the script very clearly and laughing out loud reading the script and thinking that this will either be really, really, really funny or it'll just be awful. It'll be like the worst movie ever.
It will not work. But that's a perfect example of the value you bring to something that's taking swings as big as that.
You need a Ben Stiller in the middle of it. Yeah, but they weren't coming after me for that movie.
I wanted to be in that movie. I was trying to get in that movie.
You were chasing it. Yeah, because I really did think it could be really funny, but I didn't know.
And then working with them, working with the Farrellys on the set, I was actually, that was where I was like, wait a minute, is this actually going to work? Because it was such a weird environment. How so? Because it was just not like any movie set I'd ever been on.
There was like, they were just having so much fun and playing practical jokes on each other. You know, very politically incorrect, practical jokes.
Putting all their friends in scenes and stuff. Yeah, putting friends in scenes and not really talking about like motivation or things like that.
And, you know, like I would get into like arguments with them about like the logic of a scene or, you know, like, oh, I'm in the bathroom and my, you know, my dick's in the zipper, but like why are all these people walking by the window? It's like I felt like it was in a Marx Brothers movie or something. You know? Or like there was like, you know, the scene where it's like dripping on my ear, you know, and I was like, why don't I feel that on my ear? Why wouldn't I feel it? Should we set up that I lost sensitivity in my ear when I was a child or something? My earlobe doesn't feel anything.
And they were like, no, it's going to be funny. A lot of those conversations.
They're like, Ben, don't worry about it. Don't worry.
Fucking Ben. So I was the pain in the ass actor, Jason, on that movie.
Jason, you were the Bateman on that set. Yeah, totally.
Well, I've always felt like if we just work just two minutes longer, we can establish that he's lost sensitivity in the ear, and then for anyone who's a cynic in the audience, we got him covered. That's a real conversation I had.
A serious conversation like that. And I would respond to that conversation.
Oh, Jason would have turned that into a sidebar. I'd be like, yes, on page 20, we can drop that little breadcrumb.
Good idea, Ben. Exactly.
We used to always, by the way, their answer, I'm sure, was always like, you know what, Ben, don't worry about it. Cam Neely thinks it's funny.
But also, and also that like, I used to say to Jason, sometimes asking questions. Yeah, I know, by the way, what's up, Cam, one of the great all-time hockey players.
Jason, we sometimes go, hey, you know what? Why don't you take that over to workshop, on the workshop stage over on stage seven, okay? We'll talk about that over there. Let's just get the scene today, huh? Hey, Ben, so when you, now that you are on to bigger things like directing great shows like Severance and whatever else you have done.
Less cum-laden projects. Yes.
So Are you? He's finished with the Hustler of Money and There's Something About Mary. Are you looking for less cum in your future projects? Go Sean.
Are you, what attracts you to certain projects? Are you like, for example, like Severance is a little sci-fi ee. Are you a sci-fi fan? Did you accept that because of the challenge of it? He hates Star Trek.
Or do you only choose things that are like... What wouldn't you choose? At this point, I kind of just go with a gut feeling, honestly.
If I read something or start to develop something, it's because it's something that I just really feel turned on by and I really like. Would you ever do a horror film? Maybe, but I wouldn't want to do it just to do it.
Or you're saying horror. Horror? Horror.
Sorry? Okay, thank you. Horror.
Horror. Okay, good.
You know, but like with Severance, it was, I thought it was funny, actually, when I read it. Yeah, it is.
Because it reminded me of The Office and Office Space and that kind of humor. You know, that thing that's developed.
That melancholy, bleak humor. No, it became much less funny.
But like, that Adam's awesome at, you're awesome at. Yeah, I just thought conceptually it was really interesting to do that kind of humor, but yet the people had no idea who they were or what they were doing or why they were there.
But yet they're in this sort of rhythm, you know? I love knowing both you and Adam. I love being such a fan of both of yours in every respect.
And watching the scenes and thinking about you guys collaborating, to me, is very exciting to watch. Because I see both of you guys.
He's operating at such a high level. And I can feel your hand in it as well.
But not heavy-handed, but I can feel both of you guys work. Because you met on Walter Mitty, right? Yeah.
It's so good. Ben, it's so good, man.
Thanks, man. I mean, you're really...
Well, thank you. But I think Adam is amazing.
I mean, we met on Walter Mitty. I saw him in Step Brothers, which really just blew my mind how funny he was in that movie.
It was just, like, I couldn't stop watching him do those scenes where, you know, the dinner table scenes were, and, you know, and it was more than just being, like, a dick or whatever. Like, he had just this level of specificity that just was incredible to me.
I love him. I want to talk about, like, your ability to direct and write and act in stuff that's, like, epic, but also, like, Walter Mitty and Tropic Thunder, I think the scope and scale of those movies are just enormous, but you're still able to get real small and specific with some character comedy that's not jokey.
It's not this. I mean, I guess there's incredible jokes in Tropic Thunder, but it's still, I don't know.
You're able to manage, it seems like multiple genres in one project. There's no real question here.
It's just, just admiration. I mean, I, I think it's like not, you know, getting away from genres.
Did you see that movie, The Worst Person in the World? Not yet, but Paul Thomas Anderson was on the, was on the podcast and he was talking really big about it. Yeah.
Well,. Well, and he does it too.
I admire filmmakers, and I haven't done this, but filmmakers who just say, screw it with genre. I don't care about the genre.
Who are able to just say, I'm going to make them. And maybe in their head they're thinking it's this genre, that genre, or it relates to that, but they're just going to make something that to them is a movie that they relate to, that they relate to and that makes them feel something.
And that's so for me, like I try not to think about the genre, you know, that much and just try to go, OK, what's going to make this funny? What's going to make this real in this moment? And that's what tone is, you know. What's going to make it powerful? Like with MIDI, it was just so powerful and heavy at times.
And when it wanted to become sort of this epic fable, it did. When it wanted to get really small and intimate, it did.
And that was a passion project for you, Ben. It took you a long time to get that up there.
And Steve Conrad did such an incredible job writing that. It's all Steve Conrad.
He wrote the script and it came to me. And then there was one also wanted to be a part of and then Steve and I were able to connect on it and I really loved working with him on it because...
He's doing incredible work on television too. Oh my God, Patriot.
That show. Talk about defying genres.
Ben, you've always had a really great eye for, and we mentioned Owen, but you've had a really great eye for emerging talent and you've always stayed really close to what's going on especially in comedy. In film in general, I think, as well, but especially comedy.
Who are the people these days who are making you laugh? You're going, fuck, this is new. This is somebody doing something in a different...
And you've always respected people who do it in a way, like you said about Owen, again, people who do it differently. Yeah.
I mean, I feel like I'm, you know, I feel sometimes that I'm not as connected as I should be. I'm not seeing everything and out there because I kind of get wrapped up in working on the project I'm working on.
And so I'll see people who come in and audition or read or, I don't watch as much television as I feel that I should. Are you good about watching films? I am not as good at, lately I'm not.
I'm not as good at watching a lot of, I get inundated, I feel like it's just so, like there's so much to watch. Right.
Yeah. You know, I did get recommended to watch this show, Dave, and God, I really, I really think it's good.
Yeah, Dave Bird. So funny.
There are some moments in that that are so funny. He's really specific.
He's really honest. Agreed.
You know, he's the rapper Lil Dicky. I thought it really developed over the two seasons.
There's an episode with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar that is so funny. Really? Yeah.
And Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is so good. Is he really? I mean, he was good in Airplane, but, like, he's really good.
But Dave, to me, it's like this guy is doing, he's just being really, really honest and creating his own tone, but it's really funny and, you know, it's just, it's self-effacing, but it's honest. And I think that's, you know, to me, when you see somebody doing that, it's really exciting.
Having done so much at such a high level for so long, you know, this qualifies as a completely fully realized career, yet you're still a young man.

So the stuff that I'm assuming you want to still get done since you've kind of checked all boxes is just what just a continue sort of an escalation in your taste, your talent, in the same genres, in the same television, film, comedy, drama, whatever it is. It's just your taste is going to continue to evolve, and that's what you want to continue doing is just keep listening to that.
He wants to know. He's trying to ask.
Ben, sorry, it's a long way to go. He's trying to ask if you're Oscar hunting.
That's what he wants to know. Who isn't, Jason? Right.
Or do you want to do something about a guy who's like in his early 50s, who started working out and he went to fight camp and he probably plays 38. You know what I mean? Is that a story that interests you? Like a guy, he's unassuming.
He's kind of dry. Shut it, Sean.
I'm telling a story about a guy who nobody's ever seen before. Who's very well lit.
Yeah. He's very well lit.
No, you know, it's a good question, Jason. It's a really good question.
And I am sort of constantly asking myself that, I guess, as I go through life these days because I'm trying to find the balance and, you know, that's really important to me is the balance of being able to have a personal life that I feel good in. And I found over the years, and I'm sure you've experienced, you've all experienced this, that it's challenging to do that.
And I think I'm more self-aware these days about that. But I love, I love directing.
I'm trying to reconnect with my acting self, you know? Like, I'm really trying to figure it out. I know I love acting, but I don't want to also do it.
There's something, you know, just to be honest, there's something very enticing about being an actor and being a star of things and having, you know, all that attention. Well, and also, of, it's, it's of, of all the jobs, producer, writer, director, actor, whatever, it's kind of like you have your shit and that's, you don't have to worry about all the big picture stuff.
You know, you have to worry about your scene work. It's, I think.
Right. But that, that, I'm trying not to go, I don't want to go back to it just because I've kind of enjoy that part of it, you know? Or the moolah.
The moolah. Yeah, the moolah is really good, too.
But you're enjoying working as an actor in what are, like, director vehicles, like working with some of your heroes. I would love to do that, yes.
I'd love to keep acting in other people's movies or even television shows, too. Figuring out a comedy to do, I would love to jump back in.
I've been talking to Mike Judge about something. Oh, cool.
I think I love Mike Judge. So, Jason, you worked with him.
I would love to jump back in. I've been talking to Mike Judge about something.
Oh, cool. I love Mike Judge.

So, what a...

Jason, you worked with him.

What a great...

What an incredible comedic voice.

What about doing something like Sean does, though?

Would you be able to go...

Sean's in Chicago.

Talk about sacrificing.

He goes there and he's rehearsing

and doing this play nonstop every day.

Ben, I don't know if you know this,

Sean's had incredible reviews for his film. Thank you.
I want to see this play nonstop every day to, Ben, I don't know if you know this, Sean's had incredible reviews for his film.

Thank you.

I want to see this play,

and I had a personal interest in the Oscar Levant story

because Stuart Kornfeld had championed it for a long time.

Oh, no kidding.

I've got up in my living room

a Richard Avedon portrait of Levant from late in his life.

No way.

Wow.

Incredible shot when he, you know, very near the end,

which is just really kind of a striking photo of your scene.

Yes, I know the one.

It totally makes sense for you to give it to Sean.

Yeah, to just give it to him.

Or come over to my house and look at it, yeah.

No, just commit to giving it to him now.

You're on the show.

But could you ever see yourself, Ben, doing that,

doing eight shows a week on Broadway?

You've done that, haven't you?

Yes, I could.

I have done it, not for a long time. Yeah, and I've been thinking about that, doing eight shows a week on Broadway? You've done that, haven't you? Yes, I could.
I have done it, not for a long time. And I've been thinking about that, too.
It could be really, really... It's scary, but I'm curious, Sean, have you enjoyed the process? Yeah, very much.
I mean, talk about I think it's right up your alley, Ben, not that you don't know that already, but just the day-to-day scene work, the dramaturgy of discovering, you know, intent. Right, when you keep going with something because you never get to do that when you're doing a movie or a show.
That's exactly right. That you get into performance 100 or 150 and all of a sudden you're having to discover new stuff and it can open up in a way that it never did before.
It's really cool and you through the rehearsal process, you break down just every word, every sentence, every moment and you refine it. It's really cool.
And isn't there also a great simplicity to doing theater too, where it's like you live your life, you wake up, you have your routine, you maybe ride your bike to the theater, you have your backpack. It's simple if you're not a crazy person like I am, which is like I wake up, I'm like, I gotta warm up my, oh, and do the voice thing, and then you gotta make sure you drink it and eat the right thing, and then you gotta go early.
Finger exercises for all the piano playing, right? Are you actually playing the piano? I'm actually playing the Rhapsody. Oh, yeah.
He's a classically trained pianist. He's doing well.
Wow. Yeah.
Wow. He's incredible.
Yeah. Well, thank you.
And so everything is leading to that performance time, right? Yeah, it's a really cool concept. Doug Wright, who wrote it, it's a true story that Oscar Levant got a pass from the treatment center that he was in, a four-hour pass to get out and appear on a game show for our play.
We switched it to Tonight Show, because everybody knows the Tonight Show. So he's got four hours to appear then he has to go back

to treatment

and it's what happened

in that night

and Sean does it every night

and he plays the piano

and he does all these

and he's got like 80 monologues

and he does this

all on a belly

full of McDonald's

every night

right

Will actually ran lines

Will ran lines with me

on the tour

and he was like

you have to fucking say this

it was

it was

honestly Ben

I thought like

oh this

I just

I would call it

and just say

I'm not showing up

I'm sorry

Thank you. I love being a part of your show.
Your show is awesome. By the way, in our family, it's the one podcast because we're not a big podcast family, but it's reached the whole family.
My daughter, I think, has listened to every single episode. No way.
Oh, that's sweet. Tell her high, please.
Yeah, big fan. Even Christine, who's not a big podcast listener, really enjoys the show.
Tell her high, too. I thought you were going to say, even Christine, who dislikes Will immensely.
Here's how much my daughter likes it. She has no interest in F1 Formula One racing.
I'm'm really into it. My son Quinn is really into it too.
I'm getting into it too. Willie's into it.
But she and I were driving from Boston to New York and we listened to the Daniel Ricciardo episode. And she sat through it because she cares nothing about F1, but because she loves the show, she listened to it.
I thought that was a fascinating episode to hear him talk about it. I thought that was great.
He's so fascinating. But anyway, the show's awesome and happy to be with you guys.
We didn't even cover any of the torrid love affair between Tony Wonder and Joe Blunt. I know.
But if you guys want to have a private moment, Ben, do you ever have people come up to you and just say, Same. Do you remember, Ben, do you remember how insane that day was when we shot that stuff we laughed so hard ridiculous it's so much fun sean our characters our characters on arrest sean's never arrested development was a show it used to be on and ben was on and his wife christine the whole stiller family was on you were not on it and you've never watched it.
And it's nice of you, Sean. But Ben and our recurring thing over the years was that our characters were competing magicians, and at the very end, it turns out that maybe they were in love with each other, but maybe neither of them had never really had a friend, so that's why they liked each other.
That's hysterical. It was insane.
Very ambiguous. Yeah.
And we were really connected when we got together. Yeah.
Like both in sort of like, you know, yeah, same, same, same, same, same. That's really funny.
So, well, we love you here at Smartless, Ben. We love you, Ben.
Thank you so too. And hi to the family and thank you for saying yes to sitting with us for an hour.

Great to see you all

and hopefully we'll see each other soon.

Great to see you, too, man.

That'd be great.

All right, buddy.

Talk soon.

Bye, guys.

Bye, Ben.

Bye, Ben.

Ben Franklin Stiller.

Unbelievable.

He's great.

I mean, isn't he?

He's one of the most famous

comedic actors of our generation.

He's done so much. I mean, you do a little bit of history on him.
I know. Tons of things.
If you had done any research at all, Jason, then you would know some of the stuff. Just anything.
But Jason, do you remember that first day when he showed up on Arrested and we only had him for like two hours because he was in the middle of like eight big movies? Yeah. And just the whole set, we were like, everybody was just abuzz.
Yeah. Ben Stiller wanted to do our show and we got to do this.
We had him for like 12 minutes. It was crazy.
I was so glad that I didn't have to work with him. I would have been a nervous wreck.
I was with Tony Hale, I guess, with Buster that first time. So nervous.
I was so nervous. Yeah.
And I met him just a a couple times. He'd done that movie with Amy and Jack.
But you used it though, right? I seem to remember Job sort of like took on this air of like, oh, here's my competition. You know, like being kind of like all nervous and kind of uptight and aggressive.
I was mad at him, but I was also still like, you know. Deeply in love.
Yeah. Making faces.
Jay, have you had a chance to check out Severance yet? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
It's bitching. I haven't.
I'm only three, like I said, three episodes in, so please don't say anything. I love this show.
I didn't even, no, I won't. But I didn't even, I didn't know he directed it.
I watched it. Oh, really? And then I was like, I really, I said to Scott, and I was like, God, this is directed so well.
I'm not making that up. And we looked it up.
I was like, Ben Stiller directed that? That's crazy. I mean, something that specific and that precise, it doesn't just happen.
Like, there is a really qualified hand at play there. You know, well, Jason, you were kind of saying, when he sets up the, like, shooting the thing, when they do those huge establishing shots of that place where they work and just the way it looks and the tone of the shot just aesthetically all of it and you're like it's so different and new from what you know of his body of work and you're like oh he's doing something totally new and I get that he's trying to go genre-less.
Yeah. That he's just like, yeah, I'm going to do this now.
But he's just basically, I mean, he's listening to his taste, I guess. And that was my question.
Like, how does a guy that comes from what is traditionally, you know, like the sketch world doesn't put a big value on, you know, aesthetics and like, you know, focal length on lenses. and things like, you know, it is all about, well, let's just write some funny stuff and make sure the camera's pointed at the person talking.
You know, how does he develop that kind of taste and affinity for, you know, the stuff he's doing now? I don't know. But clearly it's a whole other side of him that I love seeing.
I don't know. And he's probably inspired by lots of different, you know, obviously he's an incredibly funny comedic actor, then incredibly funny comedic filmmaker because he kind of did those two things simultaneously.
Yeah. And then now he's just going and people are sending him scripts and he's just getting inspired by whatever's nearby.
Nearby. Oh, fantastic.

Wow, that came out of nowhere.

Look at you sneaking up from the rear.

That's how you do a fucking body, dicks.

Wow.

Unbelievable.

Well, I'm going to go think about that one.

I hate having to teach so much.

You must be exhausted.

I'm exhausted from teaching.

I'm teaching and I'm learning.

I'm smart.

Nice. I'm teaching and I'm learning.
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