"Jerry Seinfeld"

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All right, let's go.

We're late.

Let's go.

We've got to get to a...

This is Jason, and over there is Will.

Let's go.

And the guy with the cap, Sean P. Hayes.

We've got to do an episode.

All day long.

This is Smartless.

Smart Less. Smart Less.
Smart Less. Smart Less.
I was asking Sean if he does, you know, because this is my guest and And I was asking Sean what he did during the break. Because I was doing a little bit of homework, the tiny bit of homework that we do when it's your guest.
Do you do a lot of work when it's your guest, Will? Sean, do you do a lot of work? I do, yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure.
Really? Yes. Don't say for sure.
What does for sure qualify as? For sure means yes. For sure, I do.
I do, I read about it. If there's an article, I'll watch something online that they've done.
Really? You'll watch an article? What channel is the article on? So then this is morning of or the week prior? Maybe a day before. What about you, Will? I like to take a couple weeks and I'll write it it all out and then i kind of put it in my own words and i'll be like you do not try to get inside the i try to get inside the skin of the person who i got coming on get inside their body and do you love when it's not your guest and you can just show up late with your walk-up music and uh and your your your your lemon perfect and uh just get going like a basketball game that's All, that's enough.
All right. All right.
Here we go. Where's my shitty intro? There it is.
All right. And this is, you know, you get a shitty intro because it's a shitty guest.
We have big guests and we have small guests. This is a small one.
All right? Can't wait. This fella hates coffee, likes cars, loves the Mets.
I bet he hates the Yankees. He's probably our best, most famous stand-up comedian, but doesn't curse.
And if you haven't guessed who it is yet, how about he gave us the best sitcom the planet has ever had, and they named it after him. Will and Sean, it's Jerry Seinfeld.
Oh, wow. Of course it's Jerry Seinfeld How about that? Oh, my God.
Guys, how do we book such big guests? There's something wrong. I don't know how we're doing it.
Jerry, welcome to SmartList. I can't believe that you're here, I mean, you know, that you're doing this.
I can't believe you said yes. I mean, things are slow on Long Island right now, maybe.
I don't know what's going on. No, it just sounded like a fun show.
Fun guys, bright guys, know the business, shorthand. Yeah, let's talk shop.
Let's talk about the business tree, as Will likes to call it. The business tree.
Let's get inside baseball right away. Well, it's better than driving around and talking, right? I mean, you're not risking your life driving around talking to students.
Jerry, what are you doing? What are you doing? It was a little dangerous. There was one really close call on a mountain road outside of Vegas.

Really?

Where I was just shooting Jerry Lewis's car.

Oh, my God.

And it had no side view mirror.

And it was a two-lane road, and I went to make a left,

and someone was passing me in the opposing lane and didn't know.

Right.

And I couldn't see them.

And it was just a split second. It would have all been over.
Oh, my God. Yeah, it was a little dangerous.
It was a little dangerous. If you had perished in Jerry Lewis's car, I mean.
It's kind of a complete circle, right? I guess so. Oh, my God.
Yeah. I suppose so.
Jerry, let me just say this. I don't think, we've met a number of times.
We share a mutual friend in Chuck Martin. Oh, yeah.
Which is great. I love that.
Oh, yeah. I feel like the last time I saw you, Will, was at that hospital benefit in Toronto.
In Toronto. And you came and did that very graciously.
And it was the biggest fundraising night in Toronto history. Jerry came and did an hour.
Wow. Yeah.
Incredible. That was a few years ago.
And we've done five since. We got Rock, came and did the next one.
Right. We've had gaff again.
We had a bunch of people do it, but, but you kicked it off and it was the single biggest night in, in, uh, yeah, it was pretty cool. Nice.
But I was going to say this. I just want to say this before, cause I've never said this to you before over all the years.
The first standup show I ever went to was when you came and played Toronto.

And I was such a fan.

I used to watch you on Letterman.

And my friends knew.

And for my 18th birthday,

because I don't know why,

I'd just never been to stand-up.

My friends surprised me

and they bought me a ticket

to see you downtown Toronto.

It was such a thrill.

First ever.

I remember that.

It was like that really wooden kind of rock.

It was like a rock, big rock club place. I can't remember the name of it.
No, this place was it was like the harbor front. Do you remember that? It was down by the water? No, you don't remember.
You've only done 35. I've played a lot of dates, but Toronto is really one of the great jewels on the comedy tour.
Yeah, they love you in Toronto. I mean, Jerry did this night at this thing.
It was like 5,000 people. You know those charity events can be pretty dry.
Jerry absolutely destroyed it. People still talk.
My dad still talks about how. Wow.
Yeah, we've had other ones. But the one that Jerry Seinfeld did was the best.
How do you decide? You must get asked all the time, Jerry, to do stuff, to do charity stuff, to do appearances and things. It must be very hard to sort of, well, I guess hungry kids are important, but kids with cancer is more important or less important.
Like, how do you, I mean, it must be difficult. You just kind of, you set aside a certain number of shows every year that you're going to do.
And I try and spread it around and just do different things. Right.
Yeah. Each year.
God, look how good you look. You know, I was doing a small bit of research.
You guys, he's not 30 anymore. What? He looks.
No way. Look at him.
Look at him. You look terrific.
Thank you. Do you sleep in olive oil? Do you zip yourself into an olive oil Ziploc? It's all moisturizer.
Is it? Is that right? Now, were you moisturizing well before Jessica came into your life? I know I wasn't before Amanda came into my life. I didn't know anything about facial toner.
I didn't know anything about a separate soap for the face versus the body. Were you always good about taking care of yourself or did it take a very- I don't really do anything.
Come on. I do have a moisturizer.
Sure. I remember in the 80s in New York, I think, these gay guys look so good.
What are they doing? Beautiful. And I went up to a counter in Bloomingdale's and I said, what do gay men use? Give me some of that.
And they gave me a small jar. You splash water on your face in the morning.
I do. And you know, I do that because Will told me to do that.
And I do it every morning. And still to this day, Will, I think of you every morning when I splash water on my face.
Did you know that? That seems about right. Yeah.
No, but cold water is the best thing you can do for you. Right.
I got that from that, uh, the hustler, the, the Paul Newman, Jackie Gleason movie. Remember that movie? Yes.
And that's the break in the movie when Jackie Gleason, he's losing and he goes into the bathroom and he splashes water on his face and he kind of changes the moment. And I still do it.
I still, I will do it in the middle of the day. If I just want to get out of one mood and try and get into a better mood, I will splash water on my face.
Does it work? Yeah, it does. Every morning you do it still to transition from sleep, bed, bedroom, house into here comes life.
Here comes the public. It's a good transitional little cue for your body.
Also, change change your shirt change your shirt i i do like a share costume change in the middle of the dress don't go out in the pajamas so now let me ask you something when when somebody asks you to do a charity event or a thing and and they don't realize i know you have a banked decades banked jokes and everything you could call upon but you have to write something for a specific charity event you don't do that because people have asked i'm not a stand-up like you and who's brilliant like that but people have asked me and i'm like you don't understand it's like asking a band to come play at a charity event they already have their like list of songs they could just play they know them but when you have to do a specific event and write specifically for that it's a lot of Oh, it's impossible. The only person I know that does that consistently is Colin Quinn.
Oh, really? Colin Quinn will write for a week when he has to do like a weird guest set or someplace. And he'll write about the company, which just blows my mind.
What about this? What about acceptance speeches? When you're nominated for something, do you grind over what you may or may not say? Or do you like to use off the cuff? I like to write something. I like to have something.
I get irritated when people go, I'm completely surprised. No, you can't be.
There's only five people left. Yeah, exactly.
You can't be that surprised. This has been publicized.
You got dressed in a tuxedo. Now, what do you do? Are the unused acceptance speeches somewhere in your files? He's never lost.
No. Guess what? You want to know what's shocking? He has.
A lot. Oh, yeah.
Am I right here? Is there one Emmy for Seinfeld as best show that you never won for lead? That's correct. Correct again.
Even though we had 68 other Emmys that the show won. Right.
But the show, as a show, only won one. And writing, I bet a bunch.
What made that okay? Was it the money? Yeah. Yeah.
No, it was really the, we weren't L.A. enough for that crowd.
Right. We were really, it was really a New York kind of attitude.
You know what, Jerry, I'll tell you, this is a true story. So yesterday, we were, or two days ago, we were doing, the three of us were doing a little business Zoom, and I was up in my sort of new office upstairs, and I had a bunch of, the guys were giving me shit because I had a bunch of Critics' Choice Awards lined up on the shelf.
I did not put them there. Not a bunch.
It wasn't a bunch. I think a bunch might be big.
There were six. And they had been unpacked by somebody else, and they were on this shelf.
I had not organized it that way, right? Right. So they started giving me help, and I said, these are Critics' Choice.
I said, they're not your Emmys. They're not your inside showbiz people who go like, oh, I'm friends with Bateman, so I'm going to vote for him, whatever.
These were the critics. This is who the top critics decided was the best.
Are they smarter? Are they better? Do their decisions mean more? They're not as inside. They don't go eat at the counter downstairs at the Beverly Hills Hotel with Jason on a Tuesday at 11.
That's a fair point. You know what I mean? Right, right.
I just won one of those, and I thought it was nice. It means a lot more.
Yeah, you should be very proud of yourself, yeah. Okay.
Where did the love for the Mets start? What is the current temperature on your love for the Mets? And also, do you hang out with Keith Hernandez? I grew up on Long Island.

And the Yankees, I think these kinds of things are very instinctual.

And the Mets were kind of, they weren't good, but they were funny and weird and different.

And it just fit me better.

And now when I go there and my wife goes with me and I go, you see these losers? I go, this is me. This is who I really am.
Look at Gary Carter. Huh? Yeah.
Now, do you hang out with Gary at all and Keith? No? Well, you did. Well, Gary's no longer with us, but thank you for asking.
Thank you. And Keith, I saw a couple weeks ago.
I go in the booth sometimes when I go to the games. I like to help announce.
That's fun. But no, I don't really socialize that much.
Would you ever entertain doing play-by-play for the Mets as a steady career? If you could stay at your house, as I guess they're doing it now, they're not really

traveling with the teams, would you ever consider doing play-by-play for the Mets for a year, let's say, a full season? No. Wouldn't that be fun? No.
It would be fun. Yes, it would be fun.
But you're not interested. I'm very dedicated to my little craft of stand-up.
I love to, and I still find it challenging, and I still like to, I'm not doing it right now, but normally when I'm in the city, I'm like, I'm trying to work on a piece of material, and then I go out to a club that night and try and make it work, and that just, that's my habit trail. How often would you want to come up with a new set? I don't really care about the set.
It's just like I've got three new ideas or I'm trying to get this to work and it just turns over organically. The younger guys do this, this is my new hour thing, you know, and I always say, dude, I didn't see your old hour.
Right. Yeah.
Right. So you're just adding a joke a day, a joke a week.
Yeah. Whenever it builds, it builds.
I just do whatever, you know, it's like a supermarket. I just go, I'll take that one down.
You know, it's just I like to have the whole thing in my head and then I just make it up as I'm on stage. Do you have a memory of writing, and you probably didn't ask this a million times, so I'm sorry if I'm boring, but do you remember writing your first joke? Do you remember? I do.
Yeah? I do, because that's what made me do it. I wrote this joke, and I told it to some guys in college.
It was my bit about being left-handed is always associated with negative things. Two left feet, left-handed compliment.
You go to a party, there's nobody there.

Would everybody go?

They left.

And that was the first joke I ever wrote.

Still funny.

And these guys, they laughed.

And I was stunned.

I was shocked.

I mean, I really never thought I could be a comedian.

But when you were in high school,

so you write that joke and they laugh.

And you say you never thought you could be. Was it something that you did wish you could be when you were younger? Yeah, yeah, but it was like wishing to be an astronaut or a baseball player.
I just, yeah, you can't do that. Real people can't do that.
I didn't even know what they were doing. I didn't understand how do they talk in a series of jokes.
I thought maybe they're just like that all the time. I thought they were geniuses.
How long did it take you to learn how to craft the joke and not be like, well, I'll just go up there and talk? One set. I did one set and it was a total disaster.
And I realized, oh, you got to have this all figured out in advance. Right.
But, you know, the comedians that are as as skilled and asigreed as you, you hear about them actually looking to bomb sometimes, or they enjoy the discomfort of having it not be super smooth all the time. Is that true, if so? Do you have any of that? I don't think it's true, and I wouldn't have no interest in that.
That sounds like they're hedging their bets. That sounds like something that Galifianakis says when he has a bad joke.

I mean, everybody works completely differently, I find.

Yeah.

Everybody has their own way of doing it.

When you try this new material out,

when you said you had like three new things

you want to try out or something,

and you walk into a comedy club,

I mean, these other young comics have to be blown away

that you're fucking, oh my God, yes, sir. Write this away, sir.
Yes, the floor is yours. I mean, it must be mind-blowing for them.
But when I was starting out, Rodney would come in and David Brenner would come in and we would just, people would be getting ready to go on stage and they would just grab your sleeve and say, no, Rodney just walked in. And then you would stand in the back and you would watch him.
And that was an amazing experience for us when we were kids. And so I think they think it's weird.
They don't understand why I'm there or why I would be doing this. They think you're big-timing it a little bit, do you think? No, I think they think, well, you already have money.
Why are you even bothering with this? Right, right. That's what they think.
And I guess that makes some kind of sense, but I don't really... It'd be like going to mass and the regular priest is there and all of a sudden the Pope walks in and they're like, sorry, man, you're out.
The Pope's here. You know, working out a joke, I'm not standing in front of 3,000 people that paid money and doing a joke that I have no idea if there's anything there.
Right.

I can't do that.

Was it a comfortable experience for you that you writing a joke, let's say for Julia Louis-Dreyfus,

you would hope that she would be able to do, but you don't know?

In other words, writing for actors as opposed to—

Right.

Well, that we learned as we were doing it.

Yeah.

Larry and I had never written anything for anyone but ourselves. We had never written dialogue.
And we just kind of made it up as we went along. But getting to know the actors and living there with them, that is an unbelievable secret weapon.
You're on the set all day with people, and then when I go back to the writer's room, I say Michael has this funny thing he does let's put this in Did you, was Seinfeld well it wasn't called that when you wrote the pilot, it was called the Seinfeld Chronicles, is that right? Yeah, the Seinfeld Chronicles Was that the first script you'd ever written? Yes Wow, that's crazy That's fair Wait, but it's so crazy because you and Larry David, I mean, I don't know you, and it's a pleasure to meet you, and I'm a huge fan. Same here, Sean.
But you guys seem to have such similar senses of humor. What are the odds of these two guys? Well, that's why I asked him to do it with me because I would bump into him in the bar at clubs, and'd talk for five minutes and it was always hilarious.
Yeah. And when I got this opportunity, I thought I want the show to sound like me and Larry talking.
So I said, would you write this show with me? I think when we talk, it's funny. Yeah, it's very, it's so funny.
Sean, what do you think? You met him on the subway and then somebody said, hey, you guys go write a script together? I'm just saying, a lot of the times, talent will meet up with a writer, but the voices don't connect, you know? Right. And the show doesn't work.
But Larry, I mean, yeah, Larry was a stand-up for many years in New York. Yeah.
I know a bunch of people who know him from back in the day. Jimmy Valli used to always talk about Larry from back in the day.
I mean, that was a great, another secret weapon of the show is I hired people that I could connect with. Right.
So I didn't want to stretch myself as an actor. I knew that wouldn't work.
Yeah. So let me just try and create an environment that feels kind of normal to me.
And those three people were people that I loved when I met them. And, you know, you just, I don't know if that was, or just lucky guesses.
Yeah. But I just connected with them.
I wasn't really acting, you know, just like, this is how I would talk to this type of guy. Right, right, right.
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I loved how casual and easy it was, and no one was trying. It never really looked like you were asking for a laugh.
You were just enjoying these people and enjoying these words. Yes.
And it was just, it was so unforced. You guys never pressed.
Well, here's the other thing. A lot of shows, this is controversial potentially.
Uh-oh. A lot of sitcoms, what happens is they start, they maybe have a funny premise or they have some funny stuff, but then they get into the characters and then it becomes about, they always try to do then.
There was never then on a very special Seinfeld. Right.
You were always about the jokes. You were always about making it as funny as possible.
That's it. That's it.
And, and that was the agreement that you had with your audience. By the way, it's a great, that's it.
That was the agreement. And I turned it on because I wanted to see the funniest possible show.
Yeah. Cause that's consistent with a standup too.
Right. And in fact, that, that was the early format of the show, right? You were, you, you would be doing sort of like a semi-set, and then you'd go into Jerry's life where that stuff

was actually happening, or you saw the genesis for that show. That was kind of how we sold it to NBC.

I love that. You'll see how a comedian gets his material.
I knew we were never really going to be

able to do that, and we kind of forced it for a few episodes, but then we had to abandon it. It was pretty cool, though.
Now, what do you think about the health of the sitcom nowadays? I mean, back at, you know, when you guys, I mean, Sean, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Will and Grace on the same night even? I mean, like, there were so many sitcoms. I think our first year was your last year.
Oh, really? 98? I think so. 98, yeah.
But there used to be so many on the air, and now there's like a half dozen. Do you, like me, miss them, and do you ever see them coming back? I wonder, where's that audience? Why don't people still want that? I don't get it.
I think it's become too much of a minefield, especially in a traditional network hierarchy of we're worried about these people, we're worried about this, and then we take all the jokes out, and then what you see is what's left. It's just become, it's too careful, you know, and careful comedy doesn't work that great.
A lot of people that have had your success, and it was and still is just massive and unmatched they they spend a lot of their lives chasing that kind of thing well i got to do something as good or better as and so many people do that you seem like yeah no i'm good that was it i'm totally fine well i whoever thought i never thought i would do anything like that Right. And when we were doing the show, I thought, this has a chance to maybe be a little niche thing that might survive on an obscure time slot somewhere, and maybe we can survive like that.
When the show became a big hit, it was a complete shock to me. Right, but my point of saying that is you have no desire to go do another scripted TV show, right? Or do you? No, I don't.
I got the ride that everybody wants, where you get to do what you want, and the public also appreciates it. Because some people, you have success, but it's not really what I want to do.
Or you do what somebody else wants to do and you have success. But I got the ride and I knew I got the ride.
Right. And so I just felt comfortable.
But you weren't looking to do a sitcom. You were happy being a standup.
The life plan, what was the life plan? Was it to be a successful standup? Yeah. I mean, that seemed like a pretty good life if you could pull that off.
I was very happy with that. Wow.
Yeah. and then now you get to kind of go back and you actually get to have both.
You went and you did that, and now you're in this place where you get to focus on the thing that you like to do the most. Yeah, but then I ended up doing a movie.
Right. During the virus, one of my writers was looking at one of my stand-up bits about the Pop-Tart.
And he said, we should do a movie about the Pop-Tart. And I, for five years, I thought, I just laughed at him when he would say that.
And then he said, give me one meeting with this other writer that we both liked. And I said, okay, I'll give you one Zoom meeting.
And we started talking about it. We started talking about the right stuff.
And what if we did it like the right stuff? You know, Kellogg's versus Post in 1964, like the U.S. versus Russia.
And I started laughing. And the next thing we knew, we wrote this movie and now we're shooting it.
Come on. In a few months.
No way. You're in it? And I'm in it, yeah.
And I'm directing it. Wait a minute.
That's incredible. Are we making news right now or have we just been in a hole and haven't read about it? It was a quick blurb, you know, but it's, yeah, we announced it.
This is the episode, Jason, this is the episode where you're asking whether or not we do any research on our guests. And you missed that Jerry's directing this movie, like this huge thing.
Isn't it charming, though, that I just don't know anything? No, it's not charming. No, no, no.
It is. No, it is charming.
It's embarrassing. So when I did the Pop-Tart bit of my stand-up, so Kellogg's liked it, so they made this Pop-Tart, this is the original Pop-Tart box, and that's me at, like, six.
No way. No way.
And they put that on the box. Listener, we have a picture of young Jerry on a box of Pop Tarts.
And what's the movie called? Yeah, tell us about the movie. The movie's called Unfrosted.
Uh-huh. And it's...
Did they start Unfrosted? They did. The first ones were Unfrosted, as you can see.
There it is. But we're not sugarcoating this story.
Oh, boy, boy. But there are several elements of it that are true.
It was, I don't want to bore you with anybody's movie. You pitch us.
You pitch us right now. Okay, so here's the real story.
Post came up with this idea. Kellogg's hears about it a month or two before it's going to come out.
And they freak out and they go, Post is coming out with this toaster pastry. We've got to come up with something.
And so that's the true story. And then they did.
And they came up with this funny name, Pop-Tart. And so Pop-Tart was a huge smash.
And the Post product was a bomb. And so...
What was it called? It was called the Country Square. Come on.
That's Sean's nickname. That's Sean's nickname.
Yeah, that's my nickname. And Marjorie Post, who was the head of Post, who lived in Mar-a-Lago, she's the one who built that estate.
What? She built that estate. That's where she lived.
So full circle. And so that's kind of where we started.
And then we invented a bunch of insane... We turned Kellogg's into kind of a movie studio where, you know, Tony the Tiger is, you know, the commissary.
Pissed off about his deal. It's very silly.
It's very, it's almost kind of Mad Mad World type comedy. I love that.
Can we talk about your great marriage to this great woman? I've met her only once. She loves you.
But she seems very effervescent. Like she's like this great pal of yours.
Is that the secret that you guys are just such good buddies? My wife says when a couple says he's my best friend or she's my best friend, that's the end of that marriage. Right.
My wife is not a fan of best friend however however you have married a buddy correct you haven't married a wife no no i married a long island jewish girl because i thought well that would give me some kind of advantage to maybe do this be able to do this it'd be great for your skin your skin, too. Yeah.
Look at your skin. But she's very, she's funny, and she's, you know, difficult at times, and I kind of feel like the most painful thing is boredom.
Yeah. Right.
And she's not boring. And she was never boring, and I love being married to her.
We missed you this summer because I had both these guys out in Long Island and out near you guys, and at one time, next time they come out, we've got to get together, Jerry. Oh, great.
He's ducking us. I didn't know you were there.
Now, does she give it up for you? Do your kids give it up to you? Do they think what you're doing is a waste of time

or that you're actually good at what you do?

They don't think much of it.

And if I'm going to talk about what I did today,

I better keep it tight.

Keep it to 45 seconds.

You know, I sold a movie.

Netflix is making it.

It's going to be a big thing. And so how was your day? Yeah.
And you would listen for hours about their day if they would be willing to talk about it. But do your kids keep it all tight like mine do? It's very tough.
Very tough. I've got this thing now going where you got to come to dinner with an anecdote of something.
I love that. I like that.
Of the day. There must something happen today that was kind of funny.
Or no food? Is that the consequence? No. He's not a monster, Jason.
He's not threatening his kids. My kids need a little poke.
How old are yours, Jason? Nine and fourteen. Right.
Two girls. Okay, well, you're coming into some very strange time.
I know. It's only going to get harder is what I'm anticipating.
Yours, you of me there. It does get harder, yes? No, no, it's just different.
It's just when they get to be 15, they will be gone. The door will close and they will individuate.
Have you heard that word? No, but now I have it. That is what teenagers do to separate.
They want to have their own identity separate from the family. And so they close the door to the bedroom and you don't see them for a long time.
And it makes sense. I was sort of the same way because, like, my parents knew me as a kid and now I'm becoming not a kid.
And so maybe they might not accept that. But I like who I am now and who I am becoming.
And so I don't necessarily want to show it to them. I want to show that to the people who know me as that, which are the kids at school and my girlfriend or whatever.
Right? I mean, I think that's what's behind it. Yeah.
You got to come up with a character to play. Yeah.
That's right. Who am I going to be in this life? Well, Jason, you were also the meal ticket.
So, I mean, let's be real. I mean, your parents would come visit you at Warner Brothers in the math truck behind stage 14.
But, you know, my parents, when I was growing up, we weren't allowed to talk about movies or TV shows at the table. That was the rule in our house.
Really? Why? And they weren't. My parents were nice people because they just thought,, no, let's talk about real stuff that's going on in the real world.
You could, I could goof around. I could joke around as much as I wanted, but they didn't want to talk about it because they were like, well, that's just make-believe.
It's fluff. Yeah.
Let's talk about politics, right? And so, a little bit. Do they know what you do for a living? Yeah, well, I really, I got, I showed them.
Yeah, that must have gone over well when you said, well, guess what? I'm going right into it. Yeah.
Geez, William. So, Jared, you're obviously one of the most famous people on the planet and always will be.
When you walk around and people stop you, do you like that? Do you hate it? Are you sick of people like, hey, you're so funny. Say something funny.
I have, as you can imagine, over the years,

developed quite a how-to map system of how I deal with people.

How does it go?

How does it go?

You're at the market.

You're going down the aisle.

You see someone coming your way.

You see the double take.

Oh, they've got you.

Tell me a joke.

Now you're prepping.

How does it go?

I would say that's a bad opening line, you know. I'm not.
You have to really, you do get good at judging people really quickly. Yeah.
And I do require just a little bit of civility. If you yell at the back of me, that's just impolite, you know? Jerry! You know what I say that's working really well is, no thank you.
They say, can I have a picture? I go, no thank you. And sometimes they go, well, I didn't offer him anything.
Why is he? You know who does that? Amy does that. Amy does that.
Oh, really? My ex. She's really good at no thank you.

And we were actually, I was telling these guys,

I took like seven 12-year-olds to see Dune last night.

Oh, wow.

And Amy, yeah, it was actually amazing.

And Amy and I were waiting outside.

We let them go to this virtual reality thing.

And this guy comes up and he starts going,

oh, you guys, we got to do it.

And she goes, no thank you.

And he had this, he was confused.

And then he just turned and he walked away.

And I was like, wow, you guys, we got to do it. And she goes, no, thank you.
And he had this, he was confused.

And then he just turned and he walked away.

And I was like, wow, that was really good.

I take a picture.

Anytime anybody asks me, anywhere I go,

I always stop and take a picture because without them, we're nothing.

Well, look at Sean Hayes.

Oh, that's nice.

The nicest goddamn guy.

Because he wants another job.

Why are you crossing your fingers on camera, though?

Uncross them. Why are you crossing your fingers? Now let's talk a tiny bit about cars, please.
And specifically about car racing. Did you ever think about following Letterman into that passion of like owning a car racing team? No.
That's a serious thing. I mean, but think about all the like, you like Porsches.
There's the whole circuit for that, right? Yeah, there's a whole world. I don't have time.
I don't have the brain. That's, I'm busy.
It's really hard to be a stand-up comedian through these various phases of life. I know.
40s and your 50s and your 60s. And what you can and can't say anymore and all that, yeah.
Well, what do you mean by that? Well, just like it seems, right? This is like a whole other two-hour discussion. Just it seems in the world of comedy.
Get canceled, Sean. Hurry up.
No, let's talk about it. I've heard other comedians say it's hard to write jokes that I used to write because I can't say them for reason A, B, or C.
It always exists. There's certain things you could just say at a cocktail party that you can't say, you know, maybe five years or 10 years ago.
Right. But comedy is a very self-correcting environment if the audience senses that you're not into it or, you know, nobody laughs at a reputation.
You go up in front of 3000 people, you're either really funny that night or it's silence and it's horrible. So it takes, for me, it takes constant work just so I could say I'm a comedian.
And if you book me, the show will be good. But what you meant more was it's difficult as a human being to go through all the stages of life as a comedian through your 30s and your 40s as you change as a person.
Right. That's a lot of work.
Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot of work.
But I'm lucky that I love the work and I'm willing to do it. And I like the simplicity and the independence of it.
But if you think about how many comedians that started on the tonight show with Johnny Carson are even still out there working, it's a pretty short list. You know, it's very hard to sustain if you don't, um, keep at it.
So anyway, to go back to the car thing, I don't do these hobbies. I can't, I can't do them.
I, I, I, I them. I really love working on staying a good comedian.

Well, and part of that, I would assume, is staying super current and talking about and observing the things that are – and one of those things happens to be this thing that I think Sean was intimating at, which is stuff that is a little tougher to talk about nowadays or that there's more separation between this side of the street and that side of the street, this sensitivity and whatnot. And do you feel, since comedy is such a great way in which to talk about things that are uncomfortable and somewhat taboo, do you maybe see a role for comedy to be one of those things that bridges into a more unified public? I don't think so.
I don't like comedy that's about the big obvious things that we all see. Show me something small that I never noticed and blow it way out of proportion.
Then I'm laughing. That's a great point.
Then I'm laughing.

Yeah, I think that you're right.

Who was it saying?

Somebody recently was talking about this idea that like,

when was it that all of a sudden that all comedians had to be philosophers?

Right.

And like it used to be just about jokes about, you know, that was it.

And we've somehow shifted the importance.

And it's just not that.

Not to say that it's not important to make people laugh.

You know what I'm saying.

Yeah, but... That was it.
And we've somehow shifted the importance. And it's just not that.

Not to say that it's not important to make people laugh.

You know what I'm saying.

Yeah. Yeah, but when George Carlin would talk about how the government doesn't care about you and these big—

It wasn't funny to me.

It's not funny.

When he would talk about the stuff and the suitcase and some little thing that I didn't notice, it was so funny. Comedians do not change people's opinions.
Right. They don't, for good or ill.
I like Jon Stewart. I never changed my mind about anything after watching a comedian.
Right. Right.
I think people like to hear cultural perspective or even political perspective from comedians because it's more entertaining. Right.
But it's not more persuasive. Yeah.
Oh, I don't know. I don't know about that.
Like, I think that the power of comedy is you can educate people without them knowing it almost. You know? I don't think they care what you think.
All right. I don't know.
Sean, why are you... Obviously, Jerry's right and you're wrong.
What are you doing? It might be. There might be something to it, but it's certainly not as much fun.
It's not as much fun to be educated by a comedian as it is to hear about someone's insanity. That, to me, is the most calming and liberating feeling when someone reveals their insanity to you.
And it's funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Then we have fun. And I think we need that more than the data.
Do you feel like you could have done anything else? Not as well, but I could have, yes. I could have been just a writer.
I could have. Advertising, I bet you would have been incredible at advertising i'll bet you um sort of i loved i loved advertising because it was uh short and you had a you know a very compressed idea and it could be funny you know in the 60s advertising was pretty funny stuff i love the show mad men yeah i thought you were going to do that when when when you when seinfeld shut down and started doing a bit you start doing a bit more for amex right around then maybe i did some amex stuff and i did flirt with starting a small boutique agency really oh but wow yeah but that would have been cool it would have been work and making commercials is the best too though just being an actor in commercials is the best it's the best schedule be there can you be here by 10? Because we've got to wrap it too.
And you're like, okay, it's one shot, there's no coverage, and then you're done. We'll be right back.
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And back to the show. What happens the rest of your day today? What's a typical weekend for you guys out there? Is it relaxing? Are you going to go out there and with a little notebook and do a little bit of work? I already had a, I try and do a morning writing session.
I find that more productive. And then I have some meetings about the movie thing.
The Pop-Tart thing. You're not yet rolling cameras, are you? Not yet rolling.
Early next year, we start rolling. Are you excited about the directing part of it or are you thinking, boy, this could be a lot of work? It's a lot of work, which I don't mind work, but I don't really know what I'm doing.
And I don't know, that's fun at this point. Who's going to help you though with that with that? Do you have yourself an adult that's going to surround you with skilled technicians? I have my writer guys, and it'll be funny.
It may not look like a real movie, but it'll be funny. Who are your writer guys? We can always cut them out if we don't like them.
Spike Ferriston, who wrote The Soup Nazi. I love Spike.
Love Spike. And Andy Robin, who wrote a lot of the episodes,

and Barry Marta, who invented Ted L. Nancy, Letters from a Nut.

First of all, this is not the first Spike mentioned on the podcast

because we were talking about his brother Wally the other day.

Oh, yeah.

Who's the greatest cue card guy in the history of cue cards.

Wally's a great guy.

Wally texted me afterwards, by the way, and he was like,

thank you and fuck Bateman.

Spike is the guy who pushed me into it.

This is... guy in the history of cue cards.
Wally's a great guy. Wally texted me afterwards by the way and he was like, thank you and fuck Bateman.
Spike is the guy who pushed me into it and said let's make this, because he has a little production company. That makes sense.
Let's do this as a movie and I just thought it was ridiculous but it came out good. Who are the people who make you laugh the most? And by the way it doesn't need to be touring comedians or stand-ups.
Who are the people who make you laugh the most? And by the way, it doesn't need to be touring comedians or stand-ups. Who are the people that Americans might not know? Guys like Spike.
I don't know. There's a guy I watch a lot.
I only met him one time named Pablo Francisco. You ever heard of this guy? No.
No, is he hilarious? He's a crazy, crazy guy. I'm going to write it down.
And I watch his YouTube stuff a lot. And I watch a lot of old Bernie Mac on YouTube.
He's so funny. But Pablo Francisco is my idea of a comedian.
He's just an insane guy. I can't really describe him, but maybe somebody will check him out after this.
I'm writing him down right now. I'm going to check him out.
And, Pablo Francisco. Yeah.
Check him out on YouTube. Bernie Mac.
I love Sebastian Maniscalco. I love Chris Rock.
Yeah. Chris Rock.
He is so good. My daughter can make me laugh anytime she wants.
She's the only person I know that can just anytime she wants, she can make me laugh. Are they interested in how a joke is works and constructed and all that? She has become interested recently.
Yeah. And anybody that will listen to me explain why that's funny.
And she's getting interested. Does she want to do that? How old is she? She's 20.
She's 20. Yeah.
And so she is in college now or is she waiting? She's in college. She's an English major.
And, uh, you know, comedy is like that dandelion that breaks through the sidewalk. It's like, you can't make it happen.
If it wants to do that, it's going to do that. And, uh, yeah.
So I have, I, so my 11 year old, uh, is a, is a really funny, really funny kid. And he and Amy and I have gone out of our way to be like, we don't want to be Shelby's parents.
We're not encouraging any sort of direction. In fact, if anything, we're like, whatever.
If there's no way around it, this kid is really funny. Yeah.
Like you said. He is.
He makes me laugh. His timing is so shocking sometimes.
Wow. That we can't.
It's genetic. It is genetic.
I guess. I mean, and there's nothing you can do about it.
There's nothing you can do. It takes all the work off of you.
You can encourage and point and direct. Maybe if she wants to do that, you could probably point her in the right direction perhaps.
Yeah, but you can't help. You can't help.
You can't say, I know someone and I could get you in here. I don't think that's healthy.
No, I agree. Well, the first step is helpful.
You can at least get her in the door perhaps, and then what she does with her access and opportunities. You know what? It's kind of a nightmare.
Can you imagine having this last name and now you want people to believe you have time? I mean, it's a nightmare. But the first step, no one's going to begrudge you the first one.
You could pull a Warren Buffett and not leave any of your money to them too. I think he left them like 50 million and he thought that was like really conservative.
Oh, really? I think so, yeah. He definitely left them something.
How do you do that? How do you live on 50 mil? Yeah. I remember a guy, somebody told me a story about a guy that we knew, a mutual friend, and he got a payout from some company of like $90 million, and he turned to my friend and he said, my friend goes, wow, $90 million? He goes, I know it takes some people a lifetime to make that kind of money.
Now, when your daughter makes you laugh, do you know why she's making you laugh? Is it sarcasm? Is it irony? Is it timing? Yeah, very sarcastic. And you don't know what they're picking up from you around the house.
They're listening in on you. They're always noticing something that you're not aware of.
Right, right. And that's just the fun of it, you know.
What about your other kids? Do you know what they want to do yet? No, one of them is into music's in the sports yeah um you know as long as they get a whole just get a bite on something and i'm happy anything you're not coaching teams are you no no ever thought about it i don't i wish i knew enough about baseball because i love it so much to coach it uh because i would do that if i could but i could hang on what do you not know about baseball? Wait, wait. Hang on.
Let me just tell Jerry this. As a Canadian, I know probably the least amount about baseball growing up.
I'd never played organized baseball, and I coached Little League for five years. Wow.
I will say, there were those moments where I was like, okay, on this next one, I think you guys should run or not, or not running.. There's only probably three or four rules I'll bet you or I, Jerry, don't really fully understand.
Probably is around the infield. Fly rules, something in there, box and things like that.
But, like, do you really think you don't know enough about baseball to coach a little league team? I mean, keep your shoulder in, you know, make sure don't lift your leg up before you swing. I don't know what you're supposed to do.
Ah, that stuff. You know, it's not about that for little league.
That's too late. They're too old.
Get them back into it, Jerry. Come on, think about it.
Just say you'll think about it. I'll think about it.
So comedians in cars getting coffee, are you still doing that? Is that done? No, that's, I think I'm going to put that volume on the shelf. That was a great show.
I love it. Oh, thank you very much.
It was a lot of fun and I got to meet and a lot of those people that I had not met, we're friends now. And it's amazing what two hours with somebody, you're friends forever after that.
Yeah, yeah. It was really great.
Like this, like doing this. That's what I was going to say.
We're so stunned that people like yourself, heroes of ours, will sit and talk with us for an hour. I just, I dork out.
I really, it's such a treat. I can say that Jason is, this is, Sean, will you attest to this? Jason is legitimately starstruck today.
He's very nervous. He's talking more than usual.
Yeah, you're kind of high-pitched a little bit. Love you, Jerry.
Yeah. Thank you.
Does any part of you enjoy being on the other side of an interview process and asking the questions on that show? Yeah, because I always felt like a really good interview becomes an intense conversation. Right.
As opposed to reading a series of questions. Yeah, Sean.
Something someone says, you pick up on something in that and want to go further down. The reason I asked about the interview thing is because I always wondered the next question, which would be, would you ever want to do a podcast? Is that like a desire of yours to go,

oh, everybody's kind of delving into this world? Might be a nice question. Well, that was kind of my idea of a podcast was, can you just give me the good 11 minutes of that? Right, right.
And so that's what Comedians in Cars was, but the editing was, was very intense. And this actually, to me, as, you know, Colin Quinn and I have these,

we have breakfast like three times a week. Because he's one of the few comedians I know that sits down and tries to grind out material the way I do.
And if you spend a lot of your life as a writer, you want to talk to other writers about how difficult it is and how discouraging it is. And this is, I'm enjoying this and I'm very happy that I'm doing it, but it's really the same mental energy that would go into a writing session for me to find the words or the thought or the path for this idea? Where do you take it? And I know comedians, they all have podcasts.
They all do podcasts. If I was coaching or teaching young comics, I would say never, ever do a podcast.
Spend that time working on your idea that you're going to do that night. Right.
Go out tonight with something that you figured out about that idea. Struggle with the idea.
I, you know. Is part of the struggle, I ask because this is one of the challenges I love about directing, and I'll never, ever master it.
I doubt anybody ever can. Oh, fuck, here we go.
No, no, but about- Settle in at least three minute long question. Go ahead, Jesse.
Here is a short one. Is it about funneling a bunch of people into one narrow thought when you're trying to get them? Have you ever noticed why or ever noticed this, and you try to build a picture for them, and everybody comes down the same channel into the punchline finally? Well, it's the success of the clarity.
Yeah. You know, for example, if you say, do you ever notice, you've lost them already.
Okay. Just that in to an idea is a turnoff to an audience.
They don't want to hear that. So now let's find another way, a better way, to bring this subject up.
Right funny way. Right.
For example, just to pick something, I see the Chinese are hanging in there with the chopsticks. I'm sure they've seen the four.
Okay. So that's, so that's that.now that takes time.
That takes time. I don't want to say, hey, you ever notice that we use forks and the Chinese use chopsticks? Point taken.
Point taken. Point taken.
Now, but now let's take that example. Okay, so that's what writing is.
That's what writing is. Hang on.
Make it unfunny, Jason. Go ahead, break it down.
Jesus, fuck. Audiences are bored stiff sitting there, and you have to unbore them, and it's a big job.
The funniest part is they're hanging in there. Yeah.
That's the funniest part of that job. The audience purifies the comedy context.
You don't have to worry that someone is saying something that offends a certain group, because if it's really offensive, guess who you're going to lose first? The people right in front of you. Even though they have paid to see you, if they don't like what you're doing, you'll know real quick.
Right. And so you don't have to worry about policing comedians we are the most policed people there are the most judged human in the culture is the comedian we get a grade every 11 seconds instantaneously yeah yeah that's true that's a good point and even when you're doing like a sitcom you got the live audience there it's working, whether it's not.
Yeah, thank God. Thank God.
That really shaped, that's what shapes the material. The material you're seeing is the result of the past 50 crowds I faced.
This is what they liked. Right.
Yeah. And then you, that's how you refine it.
That's so cool. Well, watch this segue.
We like you, Jerry. And we like this conversation.
And you please like the rest of your Saturday. Say hi to your family, please.
Thank you, guys. It's a great show.
Thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me on.
We love you. We miss you.
We want more. Jerry, you're so hilarious.
So consistently funny. Such a fan.
I love it. Oh, my God.
Thank you. I'll see you at Bloomingdale's.
Thank you, Jerry. Very, very, very much.
All right, guys. Thank you.
All right, pal. Bye.
Bye. All right.
Bye. All right.
So now, really, did I seem nervous? Jerry, I mean, you didn't stop talking that entire podcast. Well, but I wanted to make, he's my guest and I want him.
You want to be friends with him. Well, I will take him as a friend.
Absolutely, I will take him as a friend. Did you know him from before, Jay? He liked you a lot, though.
I can tell he liked you. Bullshit.
No, he liked you. I don't think I've ever met Jerry Simon.
I've never met him. That was the first time I've ever met him.
No, you said, Will, you've met him, right? I've met him a bunch of times. He's old friends with Chuck Martino.
Chuck Martin. Chaz Martin.
Chaz Martin. Chaz Martino.
And then I did this, we asked him to do this benefit in Toronto a few years ago. The hospital benefit, now called Michael Guerin Hospital in Toronto, which I'm still associated.
Oh, yeah. Still associated.
Well, it's a hospital. Where can people donate? Where can people donate? I did a little video for you for that.
You did a video for me, yeah. And Jason did not.
I did not. Remember, I asked you to do it, and you did not.
I don't like charity. I know.
And so anyway, so it's a hospital. Again, I love how Jason, like, a plug for a hospital.
So, you know, in Canada, by the way, where it's universal, they're not even, you don't even get, you know what I mean? It's not owned by some corporation. So nice, Jay.
Nice to meet the real Jason finally after over a year of doing the podcast. Here he is.
Anyway, so Jerry came up and he did, he was such a fucking rock star. He came up and he took photos with everybody and he did everything.
And then he did, he didn't do an hour. i think he did close to 90 minutes straight through he absolutely crushed the place wow and walked out and like just like okay like like as if it was nothing like and we're in awe and then i had to come out i had to introduce him i did like i did like five minutes actually which i wrote which is you know i'm not a stand-up but no but but you're good.
You're a very good host. Thank you.
You're good with a mic and a spotlight. Thank you.
I'm terrible at that. For sure.
And thank you. But being a stand-up is such a different, God, the respect for stand-ups and running jokes is just off the charts.
And then anyway, and then he walked away and he killed, and then I had to kind of come up and sort of close up. And I'm like, well, this is terrible, you know.
That was big. That was big and wonderful.
We had Jerry Seinfeld, y'all. Jerry Seinfeld.
And he was the first stand-up. And my buddies, Scotty Bear and John Monteith, bought me tickets to go see him live.
And it was such a thrill. And, of course, he was hysterical.
He delivered. Every time you see him on Letterman or The Tonight Show.
Always funny. Every time he delivered.
Every time. Always funny.
Yeah. Sean, I got to say, like, if you were going to do, if you had a magazine that was all about, there was like a tiger magazine on the cover every week, you'd have a tiger, right? Yeah, sure.
And if you had a thing that was a magazine that was about snakes every week,

every week on the cover, you'd have a snake.

A snake, sure, yeah. A snake.

And if you had a magazine that was about

a buffalo, you'd always have a

buffalo. Oh, no, you could also have

a bison.

Bison, bison.

If you worked hard for it, we're going to give it to you.