"W. Kamau Bell"

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Speaker 1 Yeah, you don't have to say intro. You just say, you just start with what the show is.

Speaker 9 Okay, but I thought if I go intro, try, and then nobody says intro, try.

Speaker 1 Nobody says intro. They just say that no.
They just.

Speaker 8 Nobody says intro.

Speaker 5 That's a good point. That's a good point.
So just talk.

Speaker 10 All right.

Speaker 11 Just talk. Take what you're talking about.

Speaker 8 I thought you said.

Speaker 3 Welcome to Smartless.

Speaker 2 Smart.

Speaker 12 I find it really fascinating.

Speaker 13 You sleep in separate bedrooms.

Speaker 1 It's yeah, but because what are you doing? You're just sleeping anyway. So otherwise, I'm a super light sleeper and I wake up at anything.

Speaker 15 So that's why I'm a light sleeper too.

Speaker 12 Well, why don't you either connect some earmuffs to your bite plate or

Speaker 4 bite plate? My bite plate.

Speaker 4 Or

Speaker 12 get an operation for your beloved or I got to write this down, yeah. Or strap a CPAP onto his helmet and get on with it.

Speaker 1 Which hide all of it his snoring is so bad it's just yeah it's he's just a snorer i can't so he's just deal with it so he does he does he sleep with a cpap machine he tried it it's it's it's like suffocating wait do does amanda or alessandra uh snore no no do you guys i have but i don't if i sleep on my back yeah yeah so you snore on my back All right.

Speaker 8 Wait a second.

Speaker 13 You're very defensive.

Speaker 18 When you sleep on your back, you do, or you do sleep on your back, therefore you snore.

Speaker 12 I no longer sleep on my back because I'm tired of taking fire on my ribs from my sleeping partner. You know, that's a kick or a punch, and that means flip over and shut your mouth.

Speaker 20 So I have...

Speaker 12 How many times have you heard that sentence, Will?

Speaker 21 I was just going to say while you're awake or while you're asleep.

Speaker 12 Flip over, shut your mouth, and don't look at me.

Speaker 12 That's the complete sentence.

Speaker 1 That's how him and Alessandra met.

Speaker 5 That's how we, yeah.

Speaker 12 I think actually that's a website that you met.

Speaker 5 That's how we met.

Speaker 9 Yeah, it's called Just Peg Me.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, I don't want to keep our guests waiting too much longer. We have a very, very special soul on today.

Speaker 1 He's a stand-up comedian, and he has hosted the popular television series United Shades of America since 2016. I love him.
He makes me laugh. He makes me think.

Speaker 1 Two things that Will tries really hard at, but please welcome W.

Speaker 16 Kamal Bell.

Speaker 23 Hello there.

Speaker 10 Kamau.

Speaker 4 Hello, kidding.

Speaker 1 I want to know first of all,

Speaker 1 we just call you Kamau because nobody says W, right?

Speaker 25 No, people who don't know me, but we all know each other. We're such good friends.
I heard about the pegging and everything.

Speaker 22 So we're all

Speaker 18 just pegme.com.

Speaker 12 We get into docking on the second half of the show.

Speaker 22 Stay tuned.

Speaker 1 What is W? What is the W?

Speaker 25 Walter is my dad's first name, too.

Speaker 22 So it's just

Speaker 10 a lovely name.

Speaker 25 Not really, but thanks.

Speaker 25 It's not, I mean, there's never been a, like maybe Walt Fraser. That was the last cool Walter in culture.

Speaker 4 But Wally, there's some cool Wallys, right?

Speaker 8 Wally Pfister.

Speaker 5 First of all, there's Wally, like as in Wally.

Speaker 4 There's that. That's a cool Wally?

Speaker 8 Jesus.

Speaker 5 Hey, can that be our new sign-off?

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 8 our buddy Wally Pfister is a cool cinematographer/slash director.

Speaker 9 He's a cool guy.

Speaker 25 Wow, we're already the cinematographers. We're already.

Speaker 5 Yo, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 Oh, listen, we're all about the arts.

Speaker 10 Will presented me with my last Emmy.

Speaker 4 Will did?

Speaker 9 I did present you.

Speaker 11 This is the second time that this has happened to me.

Speaker 9 I did present you with an Emmy.

Speaker 6 So, you guys, first of all, I just want to point out you guys are all Emmy winners. I'm the only non-Emmy winner here.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 12 So congrats. I bet you've got an Annie.
Do you have an Annie?

Speaker 27 I do. I have a few.

Speaker 4 Do you have a Cleo?

Speaker 8 No, I'm a guy.

Speaker 17 Okay.

Speaker 17 No, no, no, Will. Sorry.

Speaker 12 You must have cut out there for a second.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 12 A Cleo.

Speaker 4 Cleo. No, no, I don't.

Speaker 4 Sorry. No, I don't.

Speaker 17 That's okay.

Speaker 30 Yeah. All right.

Speaker 31 So, Kamal, you've done, you know, reading about you and

Speaker 1 knowing you the very little bit that I do from Sundance. We hung out for a while and really connected.
At least I thought so.

Speaker 17 And

Speaker 1 just adore you and adore your brain and adore your ambition to get the message out to people like us who aren't that bright. And

Speaker 1 I love your show, how it just kind of, the United States of America, how it just kind of

Speaker 1 displays for us the questions and the answers in such a palatable way.

Speaker 1 And it's so easily digestible and something everybody can understand. So how did you think of the show and why did you think of the show?

Speaker 25 You know, I always wanted to do a show like this, but there was no way to, there's no path to these shows.

Speaker 25 Back in the day, I would just sit on my couch watching Bourdain and being like, how do you get one of those?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 10 Right, right.

Speaker 4 That's cool. Travel around and talking to people.

Speaker 26 I can do that.

Speaker 25 And really, I had a show before this show called Totally Biased that was my first big break on FX.

Speaker 25 And then when that show was canceled, like it just happened to be at the same time that CNN was like looking to break in another show like Bourdain.

Speaker 25 So I was in the position of like them sort of pitching me on the idea, which was really like great.

Speaker 25 And also in a position where Bourdain had so kicked the door wide open, there was nothing I was going to do that was going to be like bigger than him.

Speaker 25 So I really got a lot of freedom to sort of really make the show in my image, which has been great.

Speaker 17 I love that.

Speaker 29 First of all, what was it that drove you to, because as a stand-up, you could just be, you know, doing Netflix specials or HBO specials or doing whatever.

Speaker 27 And it seems that you've kind of,

Speaker 10 I mean, sure, we all want that.

Speaker 25 I wouldn't want to do that.

Speaker 2 No, who wouldn't want that?

Speaker 31 But you know what?

Speaker 18 If they came to me and said, hey, we want to give you 20 million to do a stand-up special, I'd say,

Speaker 8 here's the routing number for my bank. No, pass.
What are you saying?

Speaker 5 You thought I was going to say pass?

Speaker 28 But my question, I guess, to you is, Kamal, is you've decided you have a, obviously, sort of built into what you do, and your voice is this political bent, this activist bent, where that's a big part of who you are.

Speaker 5 And what do you think it was that kind of, what was that moment that, or was there a seminal moment that drove you that way as opposed to just straight, straight up stand up?

Speaker 25 I mean, when I started doing stand-up, I was just trying to be funny like everybody is trying to be funny.

Speaker 25 And I really did not have any intention of being some sort of like cultural, social, whatever this voice is. But I was raised by a black lady with opinions.

Speaker 25 And so deep inside of me is it is that if something's wrong, you're supposed to say something.

Speaker 25 And so I think as I got older and I had more of a stake in the world, I started to pay more attention to the news.

Speaker 25 And like I said, I literally, my mom's, like I used to, I was an only child, so I hang out with my mom a lot and she'd be around adults.

Speaker 25 And so they would be, and, you know, a lot of black folks who were come out of the civil rights movement. who were like, we have jobs now, but we're still pretty pissed about the state of the world.

Speaker 25 And I just heard these conversations all the time. And so I think for me, it was just like, in some sense, I didn't really want to be this kind of comedian.

Speaker 25 I wanted to, I wanted to be a comedian because of Eddie Murphy on Starting Out Lot. So that was not really like, it wasn't like I came out like, I got to be Gregory.

Speaker 25 But I think I was attracted to that. And then as a young comedian, I was introduced to Bill Hicks when Bill Hicks was still like a folk tale.
He had passed away.

Speaker 25 But it was just like somebody like handed me a tape of like, listen to this. I was like, oh, that, that's, that's what I want to do.
And then you're like, Chris Rock is a big influence.

Speaker 25 And I get to be around Dave Chappelle a lot, like post-South africa and really watch him on stage a lot and just be like you know not that any percentage of any of these comics but really that's the thing i'm attracted to doing is like speaking my mind and taking a stand just i would rather be kevin hart that doesn't seem easy but it does seem more cost-efficient so how often are you uh you're traveling around the country uh not not eight weeks a year with eight eight episodes you're doing you're doing it maybe probably eight months yeah Yeah, I mean, we shoot.

Speaker 25 I mean, the shows are pretty quickly shot. People don't realize this, but we shoot in like a seven-day week.

Speaker 1 and but yeah it takes up most of the year with editing and then after that like whatever time is left over i still do because i have months cnn instead of doing stand-up gigs i do lecture tours which pay better so like i do a lot of college challenges and private gigs like sort of talking about the work and um that was my year up until the coronavirus i want to ask you about two well many episodes i mean we could we could we could take the entire time on this podcast episode to talk about even one of your episodes but one of the fascinating ones was the first episode, or one of the first episodes, you, you met with a KKK member in Kentucky and Arkansas, I think.

Speaker 1 Several KKK members in Kentucky and Arkansas. Which is, this is fascinating.
How does a black man even get in, go into that and feel safe? And how did that happen? What is that phone call like?

Speaker 25 And so that was the pilot episode. And again, sort of coming off of like, at that point, CNN had Bourdain, Lisa Ling, Morgan Spurlock, Mike Rowe.

Speaker 25 And so I was aware that like, if they're going to add a new show, I have to do something that none of those shows is going to do.

Speaker 25 And the sort of the elevator pitch was black guy goes places he shouldn't was basically the elevator pitch for the show so where shouldn't a black guy go the number one place is a clan meeting so yeah there's for the pilot maybe the pilot won't go and i'll have a good story but also i have to do something that cnn will be like well nobody does this on our network so i was my so when once we decided to do the show that was my pitch and they pitched a lot of other things and i've kept being like what about the clan and they're like fine i was like oh

Speaker 25 and then it was about like luckily i didn't have to do this but producers having to call Klan chapters and be like, hey, can see an income?

Speaker 10 Hello? Hello?

Speaker 25 And then, you know, hey, can see an income with a black guy?

Speaker 22 Hello. Hello.

Speaker 18 What about a black comedian?

Speaker 25 And then we were left with like four groups who were like, sure, because they wanted to be on TV.

Speaker 5 Wow, because they wanted to, because they wanted to be on TV because they figured just no publicity is bad publicity.

Speaker 25 So the Klan thinks every white person really is secretly a fan of the Klan.

Speaker 10 So that like,

Speaker 25 even the white people who watch CNN are going to be like, I know, like, are going to be watching it like, yeah, these guys have a good point. Cause you have to to be that deliberate.
Wow.

Speaker 25 The producer told me he was like, he had to pretend like he was like down with them to get them to let us come. Right.

Speaker 4 No way.

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Speaker 12 So, Kamal, with the guy that you, the, the Klansman that you interviewed, did he, did he try his best to give you Mr.

Speaker 32 Klansman to you, sir.

Speaker 25 Doctor Dr.

Speaker 34 Reverend, Reverend Dr.

Speaker 24 Dr.

Speaker 4 Reverend,

Speaker 12 did he do his best to try to convince you that what their thinking is is not nuts? And if so, what was that sentence like?

Speaker 34 Well, I think that first of all, I talked to several. So I went to a cross burning, or as they call it, cross-lighting.
So it was like an actual Klan meeting, a clavering, as they say.

Speaker 34 And then I talked to a guy named Dr. Thomas Robb, who's from Harris, around Harrison, Arkansas, who has like a, I call it a compound.
He says a church, tomato, tomato.

Speaker 34 And so I've talked to several different versions of the clan.

Speaker 34 And there's sort of some basic levels of like, it's sort of related to the Fox News thing, actually, where they're like, well, we all know black people don't know how to police themselves.

Speaker 34 I mean, we all know that. I mean, so, right.
So there's, there's a way they talk to you as if like, these are all facts, right?

Speaker 34 I mean, we all know that, you know, obviously you'd rather be with your people and I wouldn't want to be, and I'd like to be with my people. Obviously, we don't want to have our people mixing.

Speaker 34 And I was like, well, I'm married to a white lady. Convenient truth.

Speaker 34 So there was just a lot of like them sort of trying to sort of they like I said they act as if these things are just common sense if we could just get past the all the rhetoric we all know these things are true and so it was really and there was some like it was right around time Ferguson had happened so there was some heat around at that moment they wanted to scare me when I first got there and I had to sort of stand back while they were like

Speaker 12 and just sort of like let them them get out the bluster before we could talk and did you get the sense at when you were done talking this person like I would find it impossible for anyone to just having talked to you for five minutes to come away from a conversation with you and not like you and not want to be friends with you did you get the sense at the end that this guy would be like uh you know i i we can be friends i mean i can still have my thoughts but we can still be like did you get the sense that maybe you had turned him a little bit there was multiple levels because again it was like dr thomas robb is a professional Klansman.

Speaker 34 He's not going to get turned because this is how he pays his rent, basically. He's not, he's not invested.

Speaker 34 But when I went to the Klan meeting, like the cross burning, I was there for several hours, like three or four hours, because we got there during daylight and we had to wait for it to be pitch black for them to burn the cross.

Speaker 34 And so I was talking to them about the process in a way that you would like think of like a PBS show.

Speaker 34 Like, like, how do you burn the cross? Where do you get the wood from? What do you, what do you use to light the cross? And so at some point, it becomes dudes talking about like home projects.

Speaker 24 Wow.

Speaker 12 Yeah, you ropa dope them into a conversation and pretty soon they realize, oh my gosh, we're just we're having fun with a guy that we're supposed to hate, I guess.

Speaker 23 Right.

Speaker 17 Question mark?

Speaker 34 And then some of them wouldn't talk to me at all. Like they would just stay clear because I think they were afraid of catching black.
So they were like really not even interested in talking to me.

Speaker 5 So wait, so when you're so when you're sitting there and talking to them about like, hey, who's who's holding the lighter and all that kind of bullshit?

Speaker 28 Are they wearing their fucking robes and their stupid hats and everything?

Speaker 34 Well, yeah, we asked, I mean, we did ask them to come, you know, you got to come wearing the dress whites, as we say,

Speaker 34 for the, for the purposes of the CNN. And so it was August, and they talked about how hot it was under the robes.
And I said, maybe you should have thought of that. Like, you know,

Speaker 4 switch the big meeting to December or something. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 34 So, yeah, they, they talked about how hot it is under the robes.

Speaker 28 But it must have, there must have been like a certain level of how foolish.

Speaker 18 On top of everything else, they must have seemed in these stupid ass robes and their fucking hats and all the hoods and and and spouting and talking about putting the lumber together for a fucking cross burning and how do you think there was ever a moment like where did you ever remember where you're like looking at them and you got a sense that they did they ever feel with shame of like yeah i look like a fucking fool i am a fucking fool of a human being No, I think, I don't think that happens at the moment.

Speaker 34 I think that happens years later if you look back at it. But no, I think they were like, we all had a cool jacket in high school, right?

Speaker 25 That made you feel like you were a million dollars.

Speaker 4 And now you'd look back and be like, you see an old picture, you're like, oh, I can't believe I ever wore that.

Speaker 12 Have you noticed that in traveling around the country, has it been a distractingly clear to you? I mean, certain parts of the country, I would imagine, it would be more, more apparent.

Speaker 12 Have you noticed that, Kamal?

Speaker 34 I mean, I think that for me, the racism is like wine, and there's just different versions of it.

Speaker 34 Like some of it's more full-bodied and some of it's more, like, some of it's more like, this one's woody.

Speaker 34 This one's got a little like garlic flavor to it in that but so i say that like i don't think like living in i live in oakland california i lived in berkeley san francisco there it's not that there's not racism here it's just the kind that i think is the kind i can get along with the best got it you know but like my dad lives in mobile alabama and i used to go there every summer and there are things about mobile alabama that i'm like it's at least friendlier here like you know like there's this there's that even with the dealing with racism there are things i like better about mobile alabama than i like about the bay area it's just this is the kind of racism I can live with.

Speaker 34 But I'll tell you this, the only time I've been kicked out of a place because I was black was in Chicago and Berkeley.

Speaker 8 You know, I think that like, what does that, what's that look like?

Speaker 4 What do you mean you got kicked out?

Speaker 34 So when I was a teenager, I lived in Chicago and I was in a record store waiting for a friend of mine and I was in there for like, you know, an hour, but, you know, which is not a long time to be in a record store unless you're 15 and black.

Speaker 34 And I was starting to walk out of the record store and the security guard came behind me and grabbed me by the collar and was was like, I need to search you down. You stole something.

Speaker 34 I hadn't stolen anything.

Speaker 34 I don't even need to say that. But and I, and he basically didn't find anything on me.
He found my inhaler. He's like, do you have asthma? Which is like, what a strange question to ask right now, sir.

Speaker 32 And who did you steal that asthma from?

Speaker 34 The environment,

Speaker 34 the toxic environment I was raised in. So, and he basically like literally bum brushed me and threw me out onto the street.
So I've been in Alabama a lot. That's never happened.

Speaker 34 And then when I was, this this happened 2015 so i was like an adult with two kids in berkeley california and my wife who was white as i mentioned was at a coffee shop with our 13 week old baby and some of her friends and i went to go say hello to her and talk to her and the coffee shop knocked somebody in the coffee shop knocked on the window and said get out of here because they thought i was like bothering these four white ladies in the in the middle of their lines no fucking way unbelievable so for me it's like you know, I think there's a level of like the South has a level of like historical violence that we associate with the South that we think is always happening, which definitely happens, but it's not always happening.

Speaker 34 But outside of the South, there's, there's racism that's like, like people in the South, and they're being racist, they actually know they're being racist.

Speaker 34 A lot of times outside the South, people do things that are racist and they're like, no, it was just because you were wearing a hat. It had nothing to do with you being black.

Speaker 4 Let me ask you, let me ask you about the, so to that, let me ask you about that incident in

Speaker 15 Berkeley where you go up and you talk to your wife and somebody knocks in the window.

Speaker 18 What ends up happening in that?

Speaker 6 What's your reaction? Do you freak out?

Speaker 27 Do you tell them to go fuck themselves? Do you have, is there a confrontation?

Speaker 34 Here's the funny part. So, this is like, and you all have been in this position, I'm some, somewhat like this, where somebody like is like because none of that was funny.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 34 yeah. We're finally at the funny part, guys.
Welcome to the funny part. So, when the person knocked on the cafe window in the Bay Area, I'm a little bit extra famous out here.

Speaker 34 So, I looked up, like, yeah, you have seen me on that TV show. Get out.
Wait a minute. No, I wasn't in that movie.

Speaker 26 So, like

Speaker 34 there was just where it's like, I was like, yeah, yeah, it's me.

Speaker 34 So it was like a real like,

Speaker 34 like turn upside down that took me a second to even get my bearings back. And then my wife saw my face.
And because we've been together a long time, she was like, oh, something racist happened.

Speaker 34 Let me see what's going on around here.

Speaker 34 And then the woman from the coffee shop came out to really give me the like move along from these nice white ladies.

Speaker 5 And that 180 must have made it extra difficult in that moment, in particular, the sort of the fall from, yeah, because we've all done that same thing, which is like, yeah, hey, can I get a picture?

Speaker 29 Of course, of course, thanks.

Speaker 5 Just take it of me and my, oh, oh, you want me to take a picture?

Speaker 7 Oh, sorry.

Speaker 31 And it's that same, and, but, but then, but then magnify it by a million, right?

Speaker 5 And so, like, you dream from that to that.

Speaker 29 That must have been, you know, by the way, speaking of pulling your pants down, I was in a parking lot once with Bateman, and we were coming out of the old Jerry's Deli in the marina, and we were about to go to work, and I was standing there wearing sweatpants, and he's like, so I guess I'll see you.

Speaker 18 And I go, yeah.

Speaker 4 And he just pants me out of the blue, underpants and sweats.

Speaker 6 And it was, I had something in my hand, and my pants are in my hand.

Speaker 26 I was like, Jesus, fuck.

Speaker 2 I was in the bar.

Speaker 12 You're lucky I didn't push you over like I used to finish the job in grade school.

Speaker 4 We weren't 18.

Speaker 24 We were 35 at the time.

Speaker 4 Well, you know, you're going to, you wear sweatpants.

Speaker 12 That's what you're going to get.

Speaker 4 Did you learn?

Speaker 1 I want to ask you about another episode that you did on United States of America.

Speaker 1 And I'm sorry to bring this guy up again. Maybe you like to talk about him.
Maybe you don't. But I'm always fascinated with people who hate like the KKK and Richard Spencer.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And you, your encounter with Richard Spencer, who is, you know, the self-proclaimed white supremacist

Speaker 1 and credited with the term alt-right. Isn't that correct?

Speaker 17 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so again, with the KKK, Richard Spencer, who's a very scary person, how did you land that interview? And like, you know, why did he agree to that?

Speaker 34 I mean, he loves TV.

Speaker 34 And I think he actually, you know, I think the funny thing about him is that he's not as scary as he used to be because I think a lot of programs like mine sort of is like here talk say more and the more he said the more even his supporters were like yikes so i think that like that was the time when i think i got a lot of criticism for that interview because people said i gave him a platform or i you know or there was all that talk about don't normalize people and i'm like this is america this dude this all these ideas are real and he's going to talk about it i think we got him because weirdly we got there before the point he got big and i think that we sort of like when we had him agree to do it he was like this sort of unknown guy by the time we filmed it he had had become more known.

Speaker 34 And by the time he aired, he was like a national figure. But people didn't realize when I talked to him, he hadn't been punched in the face yet.

Speaker 34 So people are like, why didn't you punch him in the face? Well, first of all, not really my style, but also that's not how time works. So like it just,

Speaker 34 but yeah, I mean, I got a lot of heat from the left for that interview because I was talking to this guy who was such a demagogue. And it's like, but I sort of, I feel like that's part of my job.

Speaker 34 And I'm not, I don't feel like I'm giving him a platform because I was there to talk with him too. I didn't go, Richard, you take this segment.
I'm going to go chill out.

Speaker 34 You know, I I was there to talk with him.

Speaker 1 Well, it's also, it's a great venue that you created to make us aware of these people and these problems and these social issues. You know,

Speaker 1 I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Speaker 13 Can I shift gears for a second? So how did you,

Speaker 27 what was your start in stand-up?

Speaker 5 How did that happen?

Speaker 34 I mean, you know, signed up at a coffee shop, paid 99 cents to perform.

Speaker 34 Like I was really, I was a kid who was a comedy nerd before that was a thing. So I just really loved, I was like a, you know, my friends would be like, did you hear the new public enemy song?

Speaker 34 I was like, did you see the new young comedian special with Jan Carom and Dennis Miller? Like, I was just like a real lover of stand-up comedy from back in the day.

Speaker 34 Like, remember seeing Seinfeld on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson and like all these things where it's like, I just loved that. I loved it, you know.

Speaker 34 So it's just, it was like, but I also, when I started doing it, I was also not funny for a very long time. So it took me a long time to do that thing they call finding your voice.

Speaker 34 It took me a long time to figure out. And I think because the things I wanted to do, I was afraid to do.
So it took me a long time to actually figure out how I wanted to do it.

Speaker 17 I love it.

Speaker 29 It's one of the scariest jobs.

Speaker 15 I mean, I've never done stand-up, and it's just, you know,

Speaker 15 the scariest thing to me

Speaker 15 seems to be getting out there.

Speaker 19 It's so because it's just you and your thoughts. And like, this is what I think's funny.
Let's hope you do too.

Speaker 32 So here we go, you know.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 5 I was terrible at it.

Speaker 1 You never did it well. Did you do it, Jason? No, ever.

Speaker 12 No, I haven't.

Speaker 12 I would be petrified for sure. Because I would imagine that the sweet spot comes when you can kind of match

Speaker 12 your mood or your attitude

Speaker 12 with your humor as well. In other words, if all you have are the jokes,

Speaker 12 if the jokes aren't great, you're not going to get laughs. But if you can marry some sort of...
some sort of attitude or vibe or tone,

Speaker 12 then the audience is perhaps more sort of

Speaker 12 preconditioned to like that joke. I mean, I bet it's a marriage between the two.

Speaker 29 That was always the knock on Dane Cook, right?

Speaker 9 They said that he didn't have like lots of jokes.

Speaker 6 I'm not really that familiar, but like, but he had a lot of attitude that lent itself.

Speaker 12 Right.

Speaker 12 So people were kind of enjoying his energy and the jokes, but it was a kind of a combination of the two as opposed to somebody who just goes out there and just says, you know, so a dentist and a rabbi walk in.

Speaker 12 Like it's, you're, you are, you're, you're fully reliant on the content of the joke and there's no personality with it.

Speaker 1 I failed miserably at it. I was, I was horrible at it.
I, my opening joke whenever I would go out is, this so bad, nobody laughed.

Speaker 1 It was, you know, they say doing ballet is one of the most difficult things you could do. So I say,

Speaker 6 don't do it.

Speaker 10 Boy. Yeah.

Speaker 4 So come on.

Speaker 34 It was funny because it was so like, it's like, it's like, it's like a New Yorker cartoon.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it is.

Speaker 5 It is. I told you it was bad.

Speaker 4 I was horrible at it. Jason, Jason, whatever happened with that, the dentist and the rabbi, though.

Speaker 13 So, yeah, so let me me finish.

Speaker 4 So, the dentist goes in there and the rabbi is.

Speaker 23 Yeah, guys, come on.

Speaker 34 Pay attention.

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Except now, the dastardly desk clerk is saying he can't confirm you're connecting rooms. Wait, what?

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Speaker 37 No, we cannot be five floors away from our kids.

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Speaker 12 I want to give us all whiplash here, and I want to go back to something because I really, I want to know your opinion on this. Come out.
How old are your kids?

Speaker 34 Nine, five and a half, and two.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 4 how old do you think it is

Speaker 12 well when do you think kids should learn about black history i've got a 13 year old and an eight and an eight year old two girls and what is the perfect age where a kid is smart enough to hear the lesson and say jesus i'm glad we're past the teeth of that and we still have a lot of work to root out the rest of the racism but do you know what i mean

Speaker 34 can you can you pick a question out of that so so here's the thing with my with with our oldest daughter, who was four, when the cafe thing happened, when that happened, we realized, me and my wife realized that we had talked to our daughter about race, which is a different conversation than racism.

Speaker 34 So the race conversation is like, Madam C.J. Walker was the first woman to be a self-made millionaire in this country and she made hair products or Michael Jordan is a great basketball player.

Speaker 34 Like that's the race conversation about great things that people of this race had done.

Speaker 34 But the racism conversation we hadn't had.

Speaker 34 And at some point, I realized as a black guy who's who's raising a black girl, who's also mixed race because her mom is half white, that if at some point she learns that outside the house, then I've been negligent.

Speaker 34 If the first time my kid hears the word slavery is from a teacher who I don't know necessarily going to talk about it in the right way, to me, it feels like not teaching your kid to like go to the bathroom when they need to go to the bathroom.

Speaker 34 It's like, it's a thing that you need to teach as a parent in the household. I think.
parents of color, black parents, we really understand that and over-index on that.

Speaker 34 And I think white parents, a lot of times, like you said, are sort of a little bit like, I don't want them to take the wrong idea.

Speaker 34 But we also also forget that kids have a really good moral compass generally.

Speaker 34 So all the conversations about racism, they understand what's fair and what's not fair. I think the things adults are afraid of is not being able to explain why slavery happened to a kid.

Speaker 34 But for me, the best thing about that I've done with my kid is like, I have no idea.

Speaker 34 And to me, owning the fact that letting my kid know that like this is horrible, she'd be like, but why? Why would they do that?

Speaker 34 I don't think that they just didn't think black people really were the same as white people. But why? There's a level of why that all parents get to with lots of things like, why is the sky blue?

Speaker 34 With the sky is blue, we feel comfortable going, I don't know, it's just blue.

Speaker 34 I think it's fine with the racism discussion to also get to the point of going, I really can't explain it to you, but this is what happened.

Speaker 34 And for me, it's important that my kids have a sense of that really that same system of fairness and justice they apply to like splitting a cookie in half, they apply that to racism.

Speaker 6 I read a lot about World War II and European history, and I was reading this book, and my kids were asking about World War II, and I had to explain to them, my oldest son was probably seven and a half at the time.

Speaker 27 He's now 11.

Speaker 14 And explained to him about World War II and the Holocaust.

Speaker 9 And he was like, what is it?

Speaker 27 And I was like, holy shit, I can't believe I'm at this moment where I've got to explain to him what the Holocaust is.

Speaker 9 And I was like, well, it's a truth. It's a reality.

Speaker 28 I can try to serve it to him in a way that's not too frightening to a seven-year-old, but also that's not.

Speaker 27 not hiding what happened. I said, you know, and you explained to him that six million Jews and then an additional 20 million people were murdered.
And that's a big fucking scary notion.

Speaker 6 And I just remember him thinking, like, that same thing you were saying of like, but why, why did they do that?

Speaker 12 Yeah, why did they hate Jewish people? Like, could you imagine if you were Jewish, like how you would explain that to Archie? And then Archie thinks, wait, people hated us at some point.

Speaker 12 And like, that's just a, you want to make sure that they're old enough to be able to say, oh, well, that's just like those people were fucking idiots.

Speaker 34 And I'll never be anything like that and work as hard as I can their whole life to keep that away you know like there's there's a there is an an age i think where kids are too young to put that in its right size you know but i think we make those decisions all the time about our kids like what what level of the where do babies come from conversation do you get into with them at some point kids want to know and You can go the stork if you want to, but then at some point, if you go too far down the stork road, then you got to like, man, now they're 17.

Speaker 17 Right.

Speaker 4 Maybe a stork guy.

Speaker 34 Where did all these grandkids come from right yeah exactly so i feel like you know i mean in the same way that like i didn't grow up believing in santa claus because my mom was like no no i'm a single parent i bought all this

Speaker 34 uh you know but my wife grew up believing in santa claus and she wanted our kids to believe in santa claus and so it's like i guess we're going to believe in santa claus we all the time with our kids we create these ways or we let them believe in things that aren't real.

Speaker 34 We create all these fairy tales. My kid thinks unicorns are real.
And I'm like,

Speaker 34 okay, for now, we'll do that. So I think we're always making those kinds of decisions.

Speaker 34 And for me as a black parent, I feel like I can't hide all that other stuff because, again, I don't want that stuff to come in in a way that I can't control.

Speaker 34 And I think we all have a, and we all know our kids and we all know there's a level at which your kid will go, okay, that's enough for today. I want to go do something else.

Speaker 34 And you don't go, no, I'm not done talking about the transatlantic slave trade.

Speaker 18 I think you let your kid go do other things.

Speaker 1 Right. So is this why you're a part of Race Forward, which is kind of like a think take?

Speaker 34 Yeah,

Speaker 34 to me, it's important to, now that I've been identified as a public figure and entertainer who does this work.

Speaker 34 And the thing that I can do for people in places like Race Forward or like the ACLU is go, here's how the people are receiving the message.

Speaker 34 Is there more information I can give them that you're a lot of times these places don't know how to get the information to the people in a way that people can take.

Speaker 34 And so as an entertainer, I can be like, oh, I can take this big, complicated idea you have and break it into bite-sized chunks. So yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, which is what your show is kind of like.

Speaker 34 Exactly. Yeah.
That's what I'm hoping to do.

Speaker 28 Sean, were you really confused when they were saying

Speaker 11 to fund the police?

Speaker 27 Were you like, why?

Speaker 18 Stuart Copeland needs money to

Speaker 4 be part of the police. Because I see your shirt there.

Speaker 8 Were you feeling like the police wasn't going to...

Speaker 1 Well, this is a band, a group.

Speaker 28 Because you know it's different, right?

Speaker 6 But they weren't saying take money away from the band, the police.

Speaker 4 So wait,

Speaker 1 let me understand. So you're saying

Speaker 32 the sting, like sting, they would have to take all his bass guitars away.

Speaker 8 They weren't going to do that.

Speaker 4 So, okay, I get it. All right, come out.

Speaker 12 What part of the show do you love the most from like a technical and like, do you see this as uh as a jumping off point to become more of an actor more of a director more of a writer more of a producer all of the above like what do you what what ideally would be your next your next venture in entertainment finally we can talk about my ideas for the next season of ozark okay there we go here's what we exist

Speaker 2 finally finally

Speaker 34 uh yeah i i don't really see my i i don't see myself as an actor i see myself as somebody who's now it's my job to produce and bring other people into shows like this that wouldn't normally have access to host a show like this.

Speaker 34 I think the reason why that like the thing about me that connects me to Bourdain is neither one of us was like a journalist who got a TV show.

Speaker 34 We were both like people who were like in our lives doing our thing who then ended up with these shows.

Speaker 34 And I think the more people we bring in from outside of Hollywood to do these things, that the shows become more interesting.

Speaker 34 So I really do want to produce and bring in more diverse voices to shows like this. Yeah, that's my love.
That's my goal.

Speaker 34 And I've started and I directed a documentary about Chris Rock a year or so ago. And so I also want a producer director.

Speaker 34 I can't, you know, I really don't want to to have to be relying on this space forever.

Speaker 4 It's the pandemic has been hard on me.

Speaker 12 So non-fiction stuff is where

Speaker 12 you'd love to stay.

Speaker 34 And socially relevant issues and yeah, I mean, I think for me, it's always socially relevant, even if it's not stated.

Speaker 34 Like the Chris Rock documentary I did, Chris is socially relevant, but it was also just me as a comedy nerd wanting to talk about the... his special bring the pain.

Speaker 34 So I don't think it always has to be like, you know, it's not always medicine. Like, I think that like it's, it's something, like, these are things I happen to be interested in.

Speaker 34 I think it is great when you can bring in sort of bigger themes into all these things because I think everything we do has a bigger theme in it.

Speaker 34 And I think it's great to sort of be able to bring those themes out. But no, I also, you know, there are things I want to do that are fun too.
Yeah, it's not, it's not always this didactic.

Speaker 15 Do you agree with this idea that maybe it would be better or it would expand and make it more enjoyable in season four of Ozark if Marty died?

Speaker 5 Do you think that no one's saying that? No one's saying that.

Speaker 4 Jason, hang on.

Speaker 8 Stop cutting people. Go ahead.

Speaker 4 I'm listening.

Speaker 17 I'm listening.

Speaker 34 If a new guy came into town, I got it.

Speaker 5 Yeah, like a new guy, like a little bit taller, a little more handsome.

Speaker 4 Like a second. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 He's got a cut a shorter haircut. Maybe he's maybe from north of the border.

Speaker 34 Some pipes.

Speaker 12 It is our last season.

Speaker 12 I might die. It's the last season.

Speaker 4 I mean, you never know.

Speaker 4 Don't let that happen. Kill all my dreams.

Speaker 34 I mean, you know, just to be clear, with Ozark, there are bigger themes in that show other than just like this.

Speaker 34 And I'm just to be 100% transparent, huge fan of Ozark. And there are bigger themes in that show than just, yeah, to all three of you, you're doing a great job.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, thanks.

Speaker 5 Yeah, yeah, thanks.

Speaker 34 But

Speaker 34 there are,

Speaker 34 it's also like an exciting show to watch, but there are bigger themes in that show that come through.

Speaker 34 So I don't think the things have to be always so, you could do a documentary about that place, but it's also they can come through in a fictional way.

Speaker 13 Well, listen, let me just say from everybody at Jason's Production Company, Prehands Productions, that we're so, we're so grateful to Prehands Productions.

Speaker 4 Well, come out.

Speaker 5 I want to thank you for being here today.

Speaker 1 Thank you for taking the time. And I really, truly mean, I'm a huge fan.

Speaker 1 Thank you for teaching me shit that I would have not had any other access to and really enlightening me and millions of other people. And so I appreciate you and I appreciate what you do.

Speaker 4 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Thank you, my friend. Good to see you.

Speaker 12 Thank you for joining us, pal.

Speaker 4 Thank you, Kamau. Wow.
Thanks, man. Pleasure having see you later.

Speaker 34 All right. Thanks.
Bye.

Speaker 1 So I've always loved him because, well, I met him in Sundance, like, I don't know, a couple of years ago. And that's when I got to learn about his show and him.

Speaker 1 And a fascinating background, fascinating guy, super smart, super on it. Like, and I love those kinds of shows where they do all the homework for you.
It's like a documentary every episode.

Speaker 1 And you're like, you just get like the.

Speaker 1 the nuts and bolts of what you need to know and what you need to learn. And I just love them.

Speaker 12 I think that's what they're saying about our show, you know, that we're really educating people.

Speaker 5 Yeah. You know, doubt,

Speaker 8 I don't think that there's a single person saying that.

Speaker 17 Really? No.

Speaker 28 I don't think that they're. I love that, Sean.
I love that you admit

Speaker 21 this is my vision of you.

Speaker 6 It's just like you and Scott, you have a nice meal, right?

Speaker 3 Probably tuna salad on white bread with potato chips.

Speaker 4 Wait a minute.

Speaker 4 Exactly right.

Speaker 12 And his bike plate soaking in a cup.

Speaker 1 I think I should start every episode with an ailment. Keep going.

Speaker 3 And then you just sit on the couch and you're like, and then you turn on the TV and then there's a switch for your brain and you just turn it off.

Speaker 17 Right. And you drew, and it's everything, you wear a bib because of the drool.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 17 And you're like,

Speaker 14 my brain with new stuff.

Speaker 1 You pretty much got me nailed.

Speaker 1 That's me to a T. Here's what I picture you, Will.
I picture you every night

Speaker 1 after

Speaker 1 your aruga la salad

Speaker 1 sitting in front of the television, but there's a mirror on top of it, right? So you can look at yourself watching the TV.

Speaker 32 Is that right?

Speaker 19 I got rid of the television altogether.

Speaker 7 I was like, What are we doing?

Speaker 4 Why are we playing this foolish game?

Speaker 10 This is all I really want to watch.

Speaker 13 Cut to the goddamn chase.

Speaker 4 All right.

Speaker 27 And it's just a staring contest.

Speaker 4 But, but

Speaker 4 what a cool, what a cool dude.

Speaker 18 And what a funny guy.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 27 great guest, Sean. Thanks.

Speaker 21 Yeah, I love him.

Speaker 27 You guys keep nailing it with your guests.

Speaker 5 Yeah, Will, what's going on, man?

Speaker 12 I mean, can you don't make us replace you? Because if you don't start bringing the heat with your guests,

Speaker 5 guys, we're not rolling anymore, right? Will, let me, listen.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we are inches away.

Speaker 30 There are a lot of people. Because this is

Speaker 5 this close.

Speaker 12 We've had three open call auditions for your spot.

Speaker 17 We haven't found anybody yet, but we are real close.

Speaker 4 What? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 No way.

Speaker 9 What if I came in and I auditioned in a disguise?

Speaker 4 You mean this isn't it?

Speaker 5 Like Bobby Valentine? With your Rolodex, and these are the people I can bring.

Speaker 12 No, your guests are incredible.

Speaker 12 I'm so flattered and stunned by the people that we three have gotten so far.

Speaker 4 It's very humbling. Yeah.

Speaker 4 This has been an amazing thing to be part of such a huge, long rollout of a Ozark press tour.

Speaker 12 We're trying to hide it, but it's come out came and came out. It was a little

Speaker 5 not subtle there on that last

Speaker 3 bullet there.

Speaker 5 Whoever it is,

Speaker 11 Ted, I'm going to call Sarandos and I'm calling MRC. And I'm like, where's my paycheck?

Speaker 1 Ted Sarandos runs Netflix.

Speaker 20 Thank you. Oh, for fuck.
Sean. Cheesehead.

Speaker 5 Ticker.

Speaker 21 One of these days, I'm going to fucking lose it.

Speaker 4 All right. Well,

Speaker 1 we'll see you guys next episode.

Speaker 3 Hey, hey, hey.

Speaker 3 Smart.

Speaker 3 Smart.

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