"Billie Eilish & Finneas O'Connell"

Speaker 1 Wondering how you can invest in yourself and work towards a goal that will last? Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress.

Speaker 1 Scotty and I are here in England still, right in London. And before we leave, we're talking about going to Paris while we're over here because it's like, when are we going to be over here again?

Speaker 1 And so we might take a day just to go over to Paris. And we talked about how great it would be to use Rosetta Stone to learn just a little bit of French before we go.
It's French, right?

Speaker 1 And now, Smartlist listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. Visit rosettastone.com slash Smartlist to get started and claim your 50% off today.

Speaker 1 Nobody wants to spend the holiday season clicking from one site to the next to get their hands on the best brands. But who knew Walmart has the the top brands we all love?

Speaker 1 Like the big names that your friends and family actually want, and all in one place: Nespresso, Nintendo, Apple, you name it. Get the brands everyone loves at prices you'll love at Walmart.
Who knew?

Speaker 1 Go to walmart.com or download the app to get all your gifts this season.

Speaker 2 Hello, podcast listener. This is Smartless.
I am Jason. I have a friend named Will and a friend named Sean.

Speaker 2 We ask people questions.

Speaker 2 If that's what you're looking for, you're in the right spot.

Speaker 1 I mean, the energy is just

Speaker 1 deplorable. Honestly,

Speaker 2 what you do it.

Speaker 1 You know, here's your attitude. You guys, if you wanted to win, and then if you want to win.

Speaker 2 Well, I just don't feel sincere if I like, come on with a bunch of energy. Hey, listener, welcome to Smart.
Like, we're not selling.

Speaker 1 That's great. That's great.
What you just said. That is great.
Try more insincere more often.

Speaker 2 I think people appreciate the non-bullshit on this podcast.

Speaker 1 People appreciate you when you're depressed. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2 It's free. Just deal with my mood today.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 It's an all-new smart list. Let's go.
Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 2 Oh, look at haircut. Jesus.
What, Wills?

Speaker 1 I think it's just slicked back. What's up, haircut? I did not get my haircut.

Speaker 2 Congratulations.

Speaker 1 It'll grow back. Don't worry.
I did not get my haircut. I just combed it.
Huh. Hey, let me ask you something.

Speaker 1 When you guys go, because I know you guys go for walks like I do, just to get some fresh air and walk during this crisis, this virus we're doing through.

Speaker 1 But whenever I pass somebody on the sidewalk, I pass them, and my conversation in my head is:

Speaker 1 okay, did I inhale like their air, even though there's a mask behind it? Did they inhale my air?

Speaker 2 I had that in the first month of COVID when I'd walk by,

Speaker 2 I would quietly either hold my breath or or or quietly just slowly exhale.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that I still do it. Okay, well, hang on.
I got to admit something, and this is a true story. When I pass strangers, for years have been holding my breath.
Really? Yeah. Even without a mask.

Speaker 2 That's Germany like me. You're not German like me.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm quietly. I'm a closet.
You're a closet germer, folks? Yeah. Yeah.
Wow. Are you really? Are you a handshaker normally? Yeah, I mean, I am, but I just, I don't know.

Speaker 1 Like, I know, I lived in New York. I lived in New York for over 20 years full-time and used the subway was my main mode of transport.
But I would do a lot of like,

Speaker 2 you know.

Speaker 2 So if you, when, like, speaking of the subway, when you walk by and you, you walk into like basically like a urine cloud, do you feel like you're getting some sort of a disease just because, well, I've smelt it, so therefore I have inhaled urine.

Speaker 2 I think about that all the time.

Speaker 1 Aerosol. All the time.

Speaker 1 And now I'm going to have a bladder infection is that what you think will i used to think like if you peed in a public urinal that pee could travel through your stream up into your penis from the previous

Speaker 1 stream yeah well that part is true that part's true yeah oh that part is true that part is true so then i do have it that's where i got my s tds yeah

Speaker 2 Boy, I did not know this about you, Will.

Speaker 1 Well, but here's what you need, Yashon, you know what it's like when you go out for dinner with Jason. So this is how it goes.

Speaker 1 Just for our listener, when you go for dinner with Jason, you go into the restaurant, right?

Speaker 1 And so what he does is he takes the menu and he goes, okay, great. And he can't do anything.
He says, great, let's just get our order in. Because what he has to do is get the order in.

Speaker 1 Then he pushes back from the table. He walks gingerly to the men's room and he washes his hands like he's going into surgery.
And then he comes out with his hands in the air.

Speaker 2 Oh, they're down around the waist because I don't want to embarrass myself.

Speaker 1 They're like a surgeon. And he comes in.
And then if.

Speaker 2 And I got to kick the chair. Yeah, you can't.

Speaker 1 If somebody comes late to the table and he's already been through that process, they're not getting a handshake, right, Jay?

Speaker 2 Or I start over.

Speaker 1 You got to do the whole thing. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I definitely wash my hands after I have touched the menu. I've shook hands at the table, whatever that nonsense is.

Speaker 2 But then it's now eat time, so I got to go. I got to boil the hands.
I come to the bottom of the hand.

Speaker 1 Interesting point. Interesting that the sitting down and shaking hands at the table and greeting other human beings to him is the nonsense at the table.
To him, that's the nonsense.

Speaker 2 I'm there to eat.

Speaker 2 All right, let's get on with it.

Speaker 1 Gang,

Speaker 2 we don't get a lot of duos, but today we got a duo.

Speaker 1 Ooh. No.
Yep.

Speaker 2 They are responsible for some of the most complicated and original music going today.

Speaker 2 They are also extremely successful. Usually when people do complicated stuff, it's not that successful.
They know how to do both. Their work has brought them.

Speaker 1 Hold on.

Speaker 2 I go to a different part of my notes here.

Speaker 1 It's Simon and Garfunkel.

Speaker 2 It's brought them five Grammy Awards, two American Music Awards, two Guinness World Records, three MTV Video Music Awards. Wow.
And

Speaker 2 the youngest to

Speaker 2 win the four main Grammy categories, Best New Artist, Record of the Year, Song of the Year, Album of the Year, in the same year.

Speaker 1 Recently?

Speaker 2 Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 And I know who it is. I think I know who it is.
You don't have to tone up. Well, I'm all fired up about this.

Speaker 2 They also happen to really love each other because they're brother and sister everybody it's billie eilish o'connell and phineas baird o'connell

Speaker 1 what there they are hi boys no way

Speaker 1 hi

Speaker 1 this is i mean i might have to guys i might have to get the kids in here well guess what what look at me panning left there's My kid. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Maple wanted to say hello. Now, Billy, you've worked worked with Maple before.
You guys did a little guest spot on our friend, the talk show host, Mr. Jimmy Kimmel.

Speaker 2 You interviewed, she did the Lord's Prayer in Spanish. You remember this?

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 Hi, Maple.

Speaker 2 All right, that's the end of that part.

Speaker 1 We got to get to business, Mapes.

Speaker 2 All right, you guys. Hi.
Thank you very much for being on our podcast. Look at you both there.

Speaker 1 First of all, it's amazing to meet both of you. I am a huge fan.
I remember, oh my God, now I'm freaking out because I'm nervous. Ocean, ocean.
Ocean eyes. Oceanize.

Speaker 1 My godson played it for me on Spotify and I freaked out. I was like, but I have to say, you know, there's so, there's a lot of music out there, a lot of pop music, and a lot of it is like fantastic.

Speaker 1 A lot of it isn't.

Speaker 1 But when I first heard your, your music, I was completely blown away.

Speaker 1 I mean, you and your brother, not since the Carpenters, by the way, but I thought that what a way to pivot and not do what everyone else is doing. I mean, it was just so different and so powerful.

Speaker 1 Do you guys want to hear us talk? Yeah, I was just going to say, listener, we swear that we're such a fair question. But I have a question.
I have a question.

Speaker 1 It was the opposite of the same stuff that's been coming out.

Speaker 1 So what made you guys like trust yourselves as artists to believe that there's an audience that would want something other than those kind of manufactured pop songs that they so crave?

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Because it's so different.

Speaker 1 First of all, jokes aside, this is a very, very sweet question. So thank you very much.
Yeah. I'm going to let it.
Oh, no, you keep going.

Speaker 3 You want me to take it? Yeah, you keep going.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 to answer a really sort of like kind question, I think that the main thing is we just wanted to make music together. And that was kind of our only big idea.

Speaker 1 So anything beyond that, in terms of like what people it has reached or things that, you know, like compliments people have imbued it with like, you know, to us, the success was just sitting down to write a song song and actually writing one and then trying to record it and that going pretty well.

Speaker 1 So, you know, I think we've, we've kept our sort of like sights pretty low from the beginning in terms of like, let's just do something

Speaker 2 and try to make it not suck.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. That's Jason can relate to that.
He's kept the bar low for so long. That's the key.

Speaker 2 You never pull a muscle if the bar's nice and low.

Speaker 1 And as I also say, also, never build your high horse too close to the ground. You know what I mean? Because

Speaker 1 you're going to fall off at some point.

Speaker 1 If you could,

Speaker 1 you know, we're in 2021 now.

Speaker 1 The last, what, three, four years have been,

Speaker 1 your head has spun around a few times and probably felt like it was going to come off, right? It's just, you guys have been in riding this incredible wave. And we asked this.

Speaker 1 I remember we had Paul McCartney on the show and we were kind of asking the same thing, which is like, you have those moments where you go, where you check in and you kind of look at each each other and go, holy shit.

Speaker 1 Does that ever happen or no?

Speaker 3 Happens all the time.

Speaker 1 All the time. All the time.

Speaker 3 I mean, you know, in the bath a lot. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 Or when I wake up.

Speaker 1 When I wake up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we don't take baths together. No, no, God, no.

Speaker 3 But every day, I mean, multiple times a day when I'm doing random stuff when I'm when I'm not, you know, it's very weird to think about.

Speaker 2 That's an interesting thing to me because, you know, in order to handle success, I would imagine, you need to somehow put yourself in a place where you are not entitled or deserving of it, but that it's appropriate so that you don't have a panic attack when you're out in front of thousands and thousands of people.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yet, it sounds like you're maintaining a keen sense of normalcy.
So then how can those two things coexist?

Speaker 2 Like the normal person would get out on stage and go, oh my God, this is, I'm having a panic attack. You know, like, how do you compartmentalize? How do you switch between the two?

Speaker 3 I mean, it's really weird because,

Speaker 3 you know, I have a job that basically

Speaker 3 a lot of it is just people complimenting me up my ass. You know what I mean? Where, you know.

Speaker 1 I know how it is. I know.
Oh, whatever.

Speaker 3 No, but what I mean is that I have a job and a career that is like constantly, you know, people saying I'm great or whatever.

Speaker 3 And it's really hard to not let that make you go, wow I really am great and then be horrible forever and just be completely self-righteous and you know whatever because constantly it's just people putting you on this pedestal that no person should be on really but then you know there's the other side of completely the opposite of that of people just you know hating your guts but it's weird What really humbles both you guys?

Speaker 2 Like, what are you both terrible at that keeps that keeps you

Speaker 2 remember the fact that you're not a superhero you're just human and you suck at X Y and Z what's X Y and Z

Speaker 1 can you are you guys terrible at cooking can like can you like not boil water we can cook I'm terrible at that you're yeah you are yeah boiling water yeah it's tough I can't

Speaker 1 get to it it's tough to admit you can't fucking boil water

Speaker 1 you know what you know what's a better question not what what do you suck at what do you wish you were better at oh Lord that's gonna sneak sneak it right by them there, Will.

Speaker 1 I mean, we were both. I don't know.
We were both homeschooled, so we don't know any math. Yeah, that's fine.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 We don't know any academics at all. Yeah.
I don't understand anything about the word geometry. Couldn't tell you.
Like, I don't even know what it means.

Speaker 1 Sorry.

Speaker 1 You're fine. You're not going to need it.
Look at baby.

Speaker 3 That's what I'm saying, though. I don't need it.

Speaker 1 Like, what am I going to do with that?

Speaker 3 What am I going to do with pie?

Speaker 1 You know, tell them, Jason, tell them you graduate high school. Yeah, I did graduate.

Speaker 1 Well, and Jason, because I acted as a high school, like I spent a fair amount of time on glee as a young person, and I was like,

Speaker 1 I feel like

Speaker 1 my not going to school equaled everyone else going to school and not learning anything. That was the feeling I got.
That's circle, too. All of my friends went to school, and none of us knew anything.

Speaker 1 It wasn't like I knew less. You know what? I got to say, and this is going to be controversial.
I had the least amount of, because I did not graduate from college. I dropped out.

Speaker 1 And everybody in my family has multiple degrees, and I'm way smarter than all of them and see they're gonna listen to this and be really put out my dad went to Harvard and I'm way smarter than my dad

Speaker 3 I'm always fascinated by musicians like yourself who either did or didn't study music did you actually study music theory or anything like that We actually did, but it was because we grew up in a choir and part of being in the choir was just like doing music theory like once a week.

Speaker 3 But it was fun. It wasn't like a, you know, the way that school is.

Speaker 1 No, but we, there were tests and stuff

Speaker 3 but it was yeah it was real we did learn to read music but you know that's not necessarily you know you don't need to do that to make music at all it just we asked again paul mccartney was on i asked him i was like what about this and did you know that your time signature changes and

Speaker 1 he's like i don't know any of that and i was like oh and he's written symphonies which is crazy yeah but it's more impressive you guys know what you you hear the music you know what you like you know what you're what you're trying to say musically and the fact that you can do it without having to sort of intellectualize it you know it's just raw talent right just that you're kind of relying on that i mean you laugh at it i know but it's true

Speaker 1 i think i think so

Speaker 1 what do i know well thanks guys the smartest person in my family

Speaker 1 i want to go back to what jason was kind of touching on which is where in the world do people like you get the confidence at such a young age when other people your age are like, it's kind of what Jason was talking about a little bit which is you know like what do you attribute your ability to perform in front of an audience i could not tell you i don't know i i kind of have a feeling of i think it just depends what type of person you are but i also kind of feel like

Speaker 1 Some people change and be I don't know it I don't really understand I mean I have a question for you What are there times where you suddenly are either in the middle of a show or you walk on stage You know what there were sometimes we're like I don't belong up here

Speaker 1 That would be horrible. That's a great question question.

Speaker 3 Well, the only time it happened was, you know, I think at the end of 2019.

Speaker 3 So after I'd had this enormous year

Speaker 3 where, you know, I was becoming this, you know, name, which was so random and weird. I, you know, had like a month off of doing shows.
It was like Thanksgiving. It was about to be the holidays.

Speaker 3 And I had this one radio show. And I went on stage, and the entire show, I felt like I was pretending to be Billie Eilish, swear to God.

Speaker 3 Like, I had this whole feeling in my body that I was like, why am I doing,

Speaker 3 and this sounds crazy, why am I doing a Billie Eilish show for her? Like, I'm not, I felt like a parody of myself, and it was very trippy.

Speaker 3 Took me many weeks to get out of that weird headspace, but that's really interesting. But I don't, I don't ever feel like I don't belong.

Speaker 3 You know, being on stage really is the one thing in my entire life that I've actually felt like I belonged in.

Speaker 3 You know, I had a lot of hobbies growing up and I still do, but I realized this recently that I actually never got to a place in any sport I did or any sort of hobby or whatever or class wherever, anything.

Speaker 3 Even things I loved, I never actually felt like I belonged there, but not in like a, oh, I'm an outcast way. It just, there was something off.
And just being on the stage is the first time.

Speaker 2 You can feel it in the music that you guys write. It feels very authentic.
It feels like you guys are talking about

Speaker 2 what you're feeling, what you're going through. The music, it doesn't feel like you guys are pressing into some area that you are incapable of doing.
It just sounds very personal,

Speaker 2 both musically and lyrically.

Speaker 2 And yet every single song is different.

Speaker 2 I think we talked about this a long time ago. I think it's Jimmy's show.

Speaker 2 There aren't two songs that sound the same.

Speaker 1 That's so sweet of you.

Speaker 2 That's hard to do, I would imagine.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what I was saying at the beginning when

Speaker 1 everybody on this Zoom was making fun of me i was trying to get the point across

Speaker 1 that it is it's such a departure from what was mainstream or what still is mainstream that even if you liked it or you hate it or whatever you couldn't help but take notice of it because it was so different and in your face and artistic and thoughtful yeah not easy you know yeah i love that

Speaker 1 i remember the first time i heard bad guy and i was like what is this there was such a sort of a danger to it obviously and there was like this kind of you know driving to school with my, with my sons listening to it and thinking like, what?

Speaker 1 Who is this? You know, this is very unusual. Yeah, it's fucking rad, man.
Really rad.

Speaker 3 Thanks.

Speaker 1 Will, are you in your Batman booth in the living room? Where are you? We're down in the Bat Cave right now. The Jack-Jack.
I'm in the Jack. What we call the Jack-Jack.

Speaker 1 That's so gross. That's horrible.
It's really gross. It's named after Sean.

Speaker 2 The sort of that dark, sort of subversive nature of some of those songs, that's what I was so surprised to find out that your parents are so close to you guys too.

Speaker 2 And on the road, and everything, I was like, I was like, oh, so it's not unsafe music, you know, for me, like, it's okay. The parents are on board with it.
So, so it must just be just the skin of it.

Speaker 2 Because, you know, my daughter was listening to a lot of it. I'm like, oh, my God, is this too adult for her? Is it too?

Speaker 2 And then you see the parent, you're like, oh, no, now I got to listen to the lyrics.

Speaker 1 We did did some interview like right before the first album came out or the album, the only one we've put out so far. But right before that album came out, we did some interview on a radio station.

Speaker 1 And I remember the person interviewing us was like, why is the music you make so dark? Like, why did you make such dark music?

Speaker 1 And I don't remember exactly what the headline in the news was, but I would, you know, it was just sort of like,

Speaker 1 you know, it was a dark four years sort of geopolitically.

Speaker 1 And there was a lot of like school shootings in the middle of our album and I remember sort of just saying to her like and like forest fires and shit yeah everything was like burning down and people were being shot at festivals and stuff and I remember just sort of being so annoyed that

Speaker 1 why are you guys so dark guys the world is dark though right you know yeah I remember just kind of being like we're just sort of reflecting like what we're seeing in the world right and sort of it's showing up in your art it would be hard for it to not which I was thinking like during this lockdown shit whenever when it's been kind of a dark time and of course we go ahead and start doing a comedy podcast and I'm like God we're so cynical we don't even

Speaker 3 we don't even know the world around us the thing is that we never went for a dark song or a right like cynical song we were just writing about things we were wanting to write about and it's the same with this album we're working on

Speaker 3 it's just songs you know they all have their own world of I don't know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 So what do you, so because I'm an idiot, what is the category of music? It's not pop, is it electro pop or do you hate subcategories and categories?

Speaker 3 I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Perfect. It's just good and it's successful.
It's just great. Yeah.
That's what it is. Is that what you've been doing in this time?

Speaker 1 So have you guys been working on a, on a record this whole year type thing?

Speaker 3 The whole year, for real. I mean, I don't know how we would have.
made an album because, you know, we were planning before COVID, obviously, to make an album and put it out in 2021.

Speaker 3 But now having had this whole year of break, you know,

Speaker 3 I really don't know how we would have done it with the actual schedule that our year was supposed to be like. We weren't even supposed to be home, you know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you guys are supposed to be on tour, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah. All year.

Speaker 2 I guess the set lists or whatever you call it when you're playing is going to be so fun on the next tour because it's all the songs you didn't get to play on the last one and all the songs.

Speaker 1 People go crazy. People go crazy.
Yeah, I can't. Are you guys like so ready to get out there and play?

Speaker 3 Oh, I dream about it. I just, it's all i want you don't want to stay home for another eight months no i don't you friend

Speaker 1 you're talking to a guy in pajamas i think there was a middle period where there was no vaccine where where there was a kind of a surrendering to the whole thing of like i guess this is forever right and now now that there's like a light at the end of the tunnel it's it's worse yeah it is kind of worse

Speaker 1 Hey, all you underwearers. Are you sick of feeling bounced around? Have you got a bad case of jugglers, Chuck?

Speaker 1 Is your junk drawer on life support? Well, Duluth Trading Company is here to get you buck naked.

Speaker 1 Since 1989, Duluth Trading Company has been engineering unders and workwear to help tackle your toughest tasks.

Speaker 1 Everything from underwater wielding to botanical gardening to excruciating Hollywood lunch meetings. Duluth Trading's buck naked underwear? Life-affirming.

Speaker 1 Doesn't matter if you're working overtime, golfing 36 holes, or dragging your co-hosts through a podcast. The no-pinch, no stink, no-sweat construction keeps you comfortable.

Speaker 1 And the crotch-cradling bullpen pouch, the epitome of support. Duluth keeps me super comfortable.
Every time I'm wearing it, I feel fully supported.

Speaker 1 So if you've got a rear end and you're ready to go buck naked, visit duluthtrading.com or shop in store today.

Speaker 1 Nothing goes with football like Sonic's new pretzel bacon sonic smasher.

Speaker 1 Two hand smashed angus beef patties crispy bacon and onions plus pub sauce all on a buttery soft pretzel bun it's perfect for watching beefy linemen crispy corners saucy receivers and buttery smooth quarterbacks geez did they write this for me and together with the original sonic smasher they're forming a new dynasty of burgers.

Speaker 1 The pretzel bacon sonic smasher. Try it for a limited time.

Speaker 1 Sonic!

Speaker 3 The family that vacations together stays together. At least, that was the plan.
Except now, the dastardly desk clerk is saying he can't confirm your connecting rooms. Wait, what?

Speaker 1 That's right, ma'am. You have rooms 201 and 709.

Speaker 3 No, we cannot be five floors away from our kids.

Speaker 3 The doors have double locks. They'll be fine.
When you want connecting rooms confirmed before you arrive, it matters where you stay.

Speaker 1 Welcome to Hilton.

Speaker 3 I see your connecting rooms are already confirmed.

Speaker 1 Hilton for this day.

Speaker 2 So it sounds like you guys do like being out on the road.

Speaker 2 You like the bus, you like the hotels. You like the routine of a show and then going to bed late and sleeping late.

Speaker 3 As long as it's thought through

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 not punishing, yes.

Speaker 2 What would it look like if it was punishing?

Speaker 3 Well, there were the first couple years of me being me.

Speaker 3 I was 14, 15,

Speaker 3 and then 16 touring for the first time. And I was also very depressed because I was 14, 15, 16, as you are.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 also, you know, at that level, you really grind. Like, it's the only word I can really come up with.
And I'm a van and you're just doing so much. And

Speaker 3 I also was new to fame, and suddenly I didn't have any friends because I was famous and I was leaving all the time. And it was weird.
It was really weird.

Speaker 3 So it's just, I'm really glad that I grew up a little bit and have, you know, found just ways of making it fun.

Speaker 3 She loves her crew, too. I love my crew.
They're all like my friends, you know? And I also have a rule I don't go on.

Speaker 1 Sorry, Will.

Speaker 1 I also have a rule. No, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 I also have a rule that

Speaker 3 I don't go out. on tour straight for like four weeks.
Four weeks is like the max that I'll be fully gone without a break.

Speaker 3 I can come home for like two weeks and go back out, but it's just when you're on tour for more than three or four weeks straight, it just, it starts to feel like a chore.

Speaker 3 And I really don't want it to feel like a chore, you know, because I love it. And I don't, you know, it's just.

Speaker 1 No, that's, that sounds really, first of all, that sounds really well thought out.

Speaker 1 And that's a very sort of a mature, kind of sober approach to it, knowing what your limits are and knowing what probably, if you were to push that, that you would not only would the product maybe not be as good, but you'd start to resent the process a little bit.

Speaker 1 Exactly. And you don't want to get into that headspace.
And I was going to ask you about your friends.

Speaker 1 Like you mentioned early on when you're out there, when you're 14, 15, you're probably, like you were saying, you're not with your friends and you probably have friends back home.

Speaker 1 That social aspect must be super difficult, kind of disconnecting.

Speaker 3 So weird. And the big thing was that when you're that age, you don't really know how to talk to grownups and they don't really know how to talk to you.
Right.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 other kids my age that I was friends with back home, like they're not going to pause their life and wait for me to get back and do things with me again. Obviously, nobody should do that.

Speaker 3 You know, things happen and you move on with your life with or without somebody. But it was really hard for me because I just didn't know how to talk to anybody I worked with.

Speaker 3 Everybody was, you know, over 40 and I was 14, 15. And I just didn't.

Speaker 3 It was just not good. It just wasn't.
And it was waking up at like 8 a.m.

Speaker 3 to do radio press and having, you know, multiple shows and like acoustic performances and then on-camera things, like so many things in a day for a 15-year-old.

Speaker 3 And then I'd get laryngitis and then I'd get like the flu and have to keep doing all this stuff. So it did get to a point then where I resented it.
And then I just talked shit about it.

Speaker 3 All I could do was like, fuck fame. I hate being famous.

Speaker 1 I hate all of this.

Speaker 3 And I couldn't go anywhere. And I was 14, not being able to like go out in the world.
And that was super weird because I wasn't used to it because I was a little kid.

Speaker 2 Did you ever resent the fact that Phineas could walk down the street? You guys are both doing this thing.

Speaker 2 You're pulling equal weight, equal time, equal creative input, but Phineas gets the anonymity and he gets to walk down the street and live his life normally?

Speaker 1 I did.

Speaker 3 I was jealous for a while, but now I'm like, I'm good.

Speaker 3 Like now I feel, because now I'm confident in my life and I'm very happy with where it is and I would not take it back or change anything really, even though there were a couple years that were really hard because

Speaker 3 I just think my life is at a place that I just, I'm so grateful for and very aware of how amazing it is and I really enjoy it you know before COVID and I was doing all these arena tours and stuff it was just pure joy dude there's no other feeling were you able to rekindle some of those childhood um uh relationships and friendships um

Speaker 1 the ones that mattered the ones that mattered yeah for sure it was kind of good you got to drop the ones that didn't matter

Speaker 1 so lucky i wish i could have dropped so many relationships because we have a couple that didn't. They're going to be on the show in about one minute.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Hey, Phineas, what was that like for you watching your sister go through that? You're going through it together, but watching her, so much of the spotlight is on her, shining so bright.

Speaker 1 And you know, when that's happening, he didn't want that shift. Yeah, well, you don't want it, but it's kind of like a helicopter light.
Like, you can't get out of it and every aspect of your life.

Speaker 1 And so she's your sister. And you guys are tight.
Yeah. The fame thing was really alarming as a, like, I mean, it would have been alarming as a friend or

Speaker 1 anything, but as a big brother, it was like especially weird because

Speaker 1 we're talking like pre-driving years and stuff for Billy, too. So sometimes I'd be like, let's go get lunch.
And it would just be this pandemonium in a way that I hadn't thought it would be at all.

Speaker 1 And like, I remember one time we went and saw a concert and it was

Speaker 1 like this was before.

Speaker 1 You know, we'd had like Billy had security or anything. And so it was just like her scrawny bouncer brother.

Speaker 1 Like I was like the worst,

Speaker 1 the worst security detail of all time. And like just all these kids at this, you know, venue.
So it was kind of alarming.

Speaker 3 Well, it was also alarming then because it was a small level of fame,

Speaker 3 but it had all the moments of bad parts of fame.

Speaker 1 This is a really dark thing to say, but like a lot of the

Speaker 1 most

Speaker 1 sort of sinister, scary levels of like stalkers and stuff is not like Lady Gaga fame. It's like the first echelon of like a lot of subscribers on YouTube.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Because you're not big enough for people to really think you need protection, but you're small enough for people to really get to reach you.

Speaker 1 And on a very real note, protection is massively expensive. So until you're

Speaker 1 like until you're making enough money to afford security details, you just can't afford like your own safety anymore. It's very shitty.

Speaker 3 It's weird. It's really weird.

Speaker 1 Let me just say this. I'm in Los Angeles and you guys can't see, but I've been working out a lot.
And so if you need some muscle. Oh, just like on the weekends, maybe?

Speaker 2 Well, just do like the matinees, Will.

Speaker 1 Do you guys have any security for matinees? Because I do go to bed at 9 p.m.

Speaker 1 I have just like a stock, stupid, dumbass

Speaker 1 question.

Speaker 1 Well, then roll it out for sure.

Speaker 1 Make sure to interrupt the conversation with a stupid question. Go ahead.
Well, I want to know.

Speaker 1 It's a question that you've been asked a billion times, I'm sure, but I don't know the answer, which is what were your early influences as far as songwriting? Oh,

Speaker 1 Jesus fucking

Speaker 1 sorry about that.

Speaker 1 Are we done? Are we done?

Speaker 1 We're just auditioning. We're looking for a new third, guys.
As a fan, I want to know. I want to know, like, who inspired you as songwriters, if anybody.

Speaker 2 Roll it into your favorite color just after that.

Speaker 1 And who, if you were a tree.

Speaker 1 What kind of tree? Yeah. Willow.
I think both of us weeping willows.

Speaker 3 I love a weeping willow.

Speaker 1 or a cherry blossom. What a great question.

Speaker 3 Our inspirations growing up.

Speaker 2 Please say mom and dad.

Speaker 3 Many, many, many inspirations.

Speaker 1 Musical. You mean musical, right, Sean? Like, what music do you listen to? Of course I mean musical.
And songwriting. I said in songwriting.

Speaker 1 But look, it seems to be a really horrible question that I can't imagine anybody would want to know.

Speaker 2 Do you start to, when you start getting some of those like old chestnuts, the ones you get in every single interview, do you guys start to make each other laugh privately by answering the same question with a clearly different answer that only you both know is total BS?

Speaker 3 That's really funny. It's bad when we have to do an interview together.
That's like a real serious one. Sure.
It's bad. And the questions are always like the same.
Oh my God.

Speaker 3 You know, one time somebody asked us how we met?

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 3 That was nuts. Those bonkers.

Speaker 1 Was the person's name Sean Hayes? Was that the interviewer? Just because I think it's blatant and disrespectful to not answer the question, Sean. No, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 I was going to answer it eventually.

Speaker 1 I was going to answer it. Sean went into this a fan.
He's going to, we're going to finish this.

Speaker 1 Oh, that ship has sailed after the first time. No, but I was going to answer it.

Speaker 1 I was going to answer it.

Speaker 3 It's our fault.

Speaker 1 It's ours. Jason and I have been misbehaving.

Speaker 2 Sean's been side texting me hateful things about the both of you.

Speaker 1 These guys, their egos are enormous.

Speaker 3 But go ahead, answer your, give them your answer.

Speaker 1 We grew up listening to like a ton of the Beatles. That was a huge big writing inspiration.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Lana Del Rey.

Speaker 1 Lana Del Rey was big for us.

Speaker 3 You loved Green Day. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You loved a lot of underground SoundCloud rap.

Speaker 1 That was very inspiring. Aurora.

Speaker 1 See, I think that's interesting.

Speaker 2 You guys released that first song on SoundCloud, right?

Speaker 2 And it just like what exploded there? Were you guys watching the numbers tick up? Was it, were you, did you put it up there hoping that it would get traction?

Speaker 2 Or was it just like, well, we're done with this. Let's put it up there.
Maybe some people will listen to it.

Speaker 1 Exactly that.

Speaker 3 Second thing you said. It was very odd that it got any attention at all.

Speaker 3 The reason we even made it in the first place was because I danced a lot and my dance teacher was like, Billy, could you make a song? And I could like choreograph a dance to it.

Speaker 3 And I thought that was, you know, the coolest thing I'd ever heard. Even though it wasn't going to be like anything.
It was just like, you know, some random

Speaker 3 dance. But I was like, sure.
And we, Phineas had this song, and we said, whatever.

Speaker 1 We record it, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 And we were going to just send it to him and not put it up anywhere. But we were like, I mean, it's it's this song we made.
We might as well put it

Speaker 3 on SoundCloud, like for our friends to listen to. There was like a free download link on it.
There was, you know, we didn't expect anything though. And kind of

Speaker 3 just in the next couple of days, it just like grew and grew and grew.

Speaker 1 But it was a small growth.

Speaker 3 It was a small growth. It wasn't, it seems like, oh, it went viral and then I became a star.
And not at all. It got like a thousand plays.
That's how much. And we were just over the moon.

Speaker 2 Your boy Bieber kind of launched like that, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 By people, fans like you of him.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Correct? Yeah.
Don't say your boy Bieber. She loves Biebs.
Oh, she might, but just to seem like

Speaker 1 you're on the inside. Fuck off, man.
Let me tell you something, Arnett. I cried during.
It's so demeaning.

Speaker 2 That Bieber documentary made me cry. Okay.

Speaker 1 And anybody that looks like a crazy thing. Oh, me too.
Oh, yeah. I like.
So I'll tell you a true story.

Speaker 1 This is embarrassing because I've done so much stupid shit like this. I was at the U.S.
Open years ago, and they do this thing the day before it starts.

Speaker 1 And it was me and Will Farrell playing tennis against Andy Murray and Andy Roddick. And we're playing them.
There was this kid who was going to play some music right before the thing.

Speaker 1 It was like on a Sunday. And the kid's like, hey, Will, he was saying to Farrell, he was like, hey, Will, can I get on a, maybe I should do like a funnier die video or something.
And I said,

Speaker 1 I remember saying to Will, I was like, hey, Will, you super psyched that the nine-year-old wants to do a video with you. And it turned out it was Justin.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 Did he do it with him yeah of course he did i always used to watch it every day

Speaker 1 he did do it he did do it and i was like and i'm so i had a similar thing too with my buddy uh had his friend he's like i'm spinning i'm a dj this is like 1992 in new york and he's like you're gonna come to our show he's like i got a show down in canal street i'm like yeah i'm coming to your show moby Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 And then, and then what about, yeah, you kind of tisk at that stock tip you got on Netflix and the other one for Uber, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, because it was like, like, oh, every movie, every TV show and movie that you want in your house on your computer. I was like, yeah, sure.
Sounds like a great idea.

Speaker 1 Can I ask another fan question?

Speaker 1 Here it comes, guys. Hold on.
Okay, thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 1 And a lot of these are for my sister in Wisconsin, too. So

Speaker 1 I am a huge James Bond fan. I know you guys wrote the song No Time to Die.

Speaker 1 So two of my favorite things are going to be on the screen at the same time, James Bond and Billie Eilish. And so

Speaker 1 I love the song.

Speaker 1 I think it's amazing. But here's the thing that I get to ask you, which I've always wanted to ask somebody who wrote a Bond song, performance Bond song.

Speaker 1 Did you guys have like, did you have to work with the Bond estate? Like, do they put certain guidelines or influence on how the song should be? Or do they mold it together?

Speaker 1 Or do they leave you alone and trust you?

Speaker 1 Great question. That's a great question.
You're also, you're very sweet.

Speaker 3 I appreciate all the compliments. It's really nice to hear.

Speaker 2 He's vicious. You don't need to help him.

Speaker 3 It was very collaborative the beginning of the process which is what somebody says when it's like wasn't collaborative no no no it was it was it was they didn't just say go write a song and it can be anything and then we'll use it it was you know it was would you guys be open to writing a song and we were like um no

Speaker 3 and then basically the steps were they sent us the script from like the first scene, the opening scene. And that's all we got.
But it was kind of, it kind of showed what the movie was about.

Speaker 3 And then she kind of, Barbara Broccoli kind of gave us a little bit of what the movie was about and what.

Speaker 1 Barbara Broccoli is the producer of all the changes.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And she, that was basically what we got. And we, you know, the Bond songs are a very high standard for us.
It's a real honor. And so we wanted to be really good.

Speaker 3 And we thought about it really hard and worked really hard on it. And well, it paid off.

Speaker 1 It's awesome. Thank you.

Speaker 3 So thank you.

Speaker 1 It took a couple days of writer's block and then we came through and did it have to hit a certain time because it's always over the credits isn't it the open credits yeah i think the very last step was sort of like um making it the right let's make it exactly this many seconds or something but but yeah i mean it really was this uh it was like on our you know fantasy lifelong bucket list of dreams of like maybe we could do a bond song wow and for real i think it was one of those things where so after the album had come out it was sort of like what would you be interested in doing like who would you want to collaborate with?

Speaker 1 And I think our team maybe was expecting us to be like, you know, say some other musician or something. And we were like,

Speaker 1 if they're making another Bond movie, like, let us know who we could,

Speaker 1 like, who we could beg to do that. And

Speaker 2 the Apple commercial was pretty awesome in that respect as well. I mean, that's a very pedigreed destination for songs nowadays, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, Bond and the Apple commercial thing were both very much like auditions in terms of like they were not an offer. It was like, we'd love to hear what you come up with.

Speaker 1 And then once we had written the thing and presented it to them, they, you know, they said, let's play ball, which was very sweet of them. Jason knows a lot about auditions.

Speaker 1 Tell them, Jason, about your last audition that you had. The last one? Before Arrested Development.
Tell them.

Speaker 2 Oh, this is for Can You Hear Me Now?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I got very close to getting that campaign.

Speaker 2 And had I gotten it, I don't think I would have gotten arrested development.

Speaker 1 But Jason, if you'd gotten the Can You Hear Me Now campaign, you would now, many, many years later, be the sprint guy saying, Can you hear that? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I'd have twice as much money. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And half as much hair.

Speaker 1 You know what? I do want to swing back to, in retrospect, Sean's question wasn't as terrible as we gave him shit for, but it's more, just more fun to give him shit for it than actually.

Speaker 1 But when you guys, when you went out, when you first started making your record and you start to record it, you write a song or whatever, did you have somebody in mind?

Speaker 1 Like, who are the people you go, like, I hope I sound like, or

Speaker 1 I hope it's going to be like, like, here are the people that I really love right now, especially, you know, like, I'm not a musician at all, but there are, I know that I have five people who I'd want to sound like.

Speaker 3 That's a good one.

Speaker 1 Um, that was more. That was

Speaker 1 not, it's not Hayes Life.

Speaker 3 That was a good one. It was one I haven't heard before.
Sorry, Sean. I get it.
I get it.

Speaker 1 James Bond was pretty good now.

Speaker 3 God.

Speaker 3 That was more of of a thing that was prominent when we were first starting.

Speaker 3 Like when we first started making music, which was, I was 13 and Phineas was 17, I think.

Speaker 3 That's crazy to think about. I don't remember feeling that we were that age.
Anyway, then it was totally an you know, because I didn't know my sound at all.

Speaker 1 I was just like, we were like pure inspiration from a

Speaker 1 market.

Speaker 3 And that's the, this is a thing I've always talked about, which is that, you know, people get flack for copying others and I totally feel that and have felt that a lot but there's like a certain line of just being inspired versus carbon copy.

Speaker 3 Do you know what I mean? Because

Speaker 3 when you're starting out in anything in the world, not just music. You have to try things out to figure out what you like.
It's the same with like personalities.

Speaker 3 When you're 13, you meet a kid and you're like, oh my God, they're so cool. I want to be more like them.
And you do things like them and you talk like them.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 you have to do that to become what you are. And that shouldn't be,

Speaker 3 that shouldn't be pushed away. Like that shouldn't be turned away, I guess.

Speaker 1 No, we relate to that. We do the, I can't speak for these guys, but I know that as a performer, there are people that I looked up to who I thought were really funny or really witty.

Speaker 1 I mean, I love David Letterman. I loved his delivery.
I love how dry he is.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I was always like, I wish, I hope that I can cut somebody off and be really shitty and witty in the way he is. It's awesome.
Mission accomplished.

Speaker 3 I know the exact feeling. But also, you also catch yourself, you as in anyone, catches you.
You know, I do it all the time where I'm like, I'm kind of doing too much like this person that I admire.

Speaker 3 And you have to just be aware that you're...

Speaker 3 you're gonna end up accidentally copying someone just because you think they're dope but i think it's just important to remember that you can be inspired by someone you just can't completely copy them but you can be inspired and you should let yourself be inspired

Speaker 2 yeah but instinct is sort of like the

Speaker 2 child of being inspired by somebody, right? Like you can't, you can't get an idea to be or do something unless you have seen it or a version of it beforehand.

Speaker 1 I mean, it just there are no original ideas in that way. I mean, Tarantino talks about it all the time.
He's a brilliant filmmaker, he's made some brilliant films, and he is also a student of films.

Speaker 1 Totally. He's inspired by so many different styles.
yeah we listen to so

Speaker 1 the the quantity of music we listen to is very very very high um and i think you know one of the coolest parts about especially working on the second album over the past year has been that we're deep enough into our catalog that we're we're more internal than external you just kind of build enough of a environment where you're kind of pulling from yourself in an interesting way or your own i don't know do you feel that way at all billy where i I wasn't I was not listening sorry what'd you say what a great answer I was just saying that like when you because we're on like your second album that we've been working on and it's like now I feel like it's it's more like it's just being built upon itself as opposed to external influence do you know what I mean right sure yeah I think so absolutely well the on that like do you guys when you when you start to write an album or a song do you um do you guys try to start as macro as possible like you think about theme or feel or tone and then come up with a melody, then come up with lyrics, and you start to get more and more and more micro?

Speaker 2 Or does it change per song, per album?

Speaker 3 It really changes per song.

Speaker 3 It really does.

Speaker 3 I forget that, like anytime I'm asked a question about how my writing process goes and our writing process, I always feel like stupid answering it because I'm like, but that's how everyone works.

Speaker 3 And I realized recently that it's not, that people write in all sorts of different ways. And we write in a certain way.
And it's usually,

Speaker 3 I mean, it is random, but it's usually out of, you know, like three ways-ish, where it can start with an instrument just playing chords, whatever, coming up with melodies, then coming up with lyrics, or it starts with a beat, and then it's lyrics, and it's melodies, or it's you think of, or it's concept, yeah, or it's one lyric, or it's one melody, like that you just, it's random.

Speaker 2 Do you feel an obligation to have a continuity between all of the songs so that the album is a whole in its tone, in its sound?

Speaker 2 Or given the sort of a la carte nature of the industry now where you don't necessarily have to buy an album, you can just kind of buy one song at a time, do you guys feel like, well, let's just make each song great.

Speaker 2 And if somebody finds a continuity thread through all of them, then so be it, but that's not the drive.

Speaker 1 I feel the opposite. I feel a desire to not repeat ourselves.

Speaker 3 Yeah. But also, I do think it's important to have a project that feels cohesive

Speaker 3 but doesn't feel like a bunch of clones.

Speaker 3 It's just really been important to me to make music that doesn't sound like my other music. I want to make a different song every single time.

Speaker 3 Obviously, you can't really fully do that 100%, but you can kind of do it.

Speaker 3 And what I like about this album we're working on and, you know, my debut album or whatever, is that it was very different, but it felt like from the same project.

Speaker 3 It felt like the same body of work, but

Speaker 3 different enough.

Speaker 1 I don't know if that's even true, but I gotta say, I love, I sort of notice that you keep saying, every time you guys say like debut album, and you kind of go, or whatever, and you talk about, there's this self-awareness.

Speaker 1 No, it's really sweet. There is a sort of a built-in modesty that you guys have there.
Cause I know it sounds weird saying it. And you feel like, if I say debut album, I'm bragging.

Speaker 1 I remember one time somebody saying, like, never say the words my and career in the same sentence because you sound like a fucking jerk I mean like well my career like shut up you asshole but the truth is at the same time it is you know it is your debut album and you are working on your new album and there is maybe that thing it's I think anyway

Speaker 2 Jason could learn you guys are genuinely sincerely humble and and modest is a part of that not only just the sincerity of it the genuineness of it but is there also sort of like a a side benefit of if you stay sort of normal and grounded, then you can appreciate all the crazy batshit fun stuff that's happening around it.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, yes.

Speaker 2 If you get jaded, then it's just like you're yawning on stage.

Speaker 3 Oh my God, it boggles my mind, the shit that people do.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 Don't make it normal because then it stops being fun, right?

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 3 You stop being able to call people batshit, you know.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Today's episode is sponsored by Ashley. They don't just sell incredible furniture.
They're also making an impact in vulnerable communities. Here's a tough fact.

Speaker 1 Over 7 million kids are affected by the welfare system and over 368,000 are currently in foster care.

Speaker 1 So together with Ashley and SiriusXM, we made a donation to four others, an organization working to end the child welfare crisis in America.

Speaker 1 You know, partnering with Ashley in our live show, first of all, they just made our set look really good.

Speaker 1 They made us really comfortable And they kind of made us look legit because otherwise it would have been, you know, milk crates and, you know, cardboard boxes.

Speaker 1 And Ashley made it look like a real, kind of looked like a living room, made it really comfortable, made our guest, John Mayer, really comfortable. And then he thought that maybe we're professional.

Speaker 1 We're not just a bunch of clowns. To be honest, there was a point where I got so comfortable, I forgot that I was in front of an audience.

Speaker 1 I was sitting back on that nice Ashley couch and I was just hanging out with my buds in my living room.

Speaker 1 Anyway, Ashley offers timeless, well-crafted furniture with white glove delivery right to your door. Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style.

Speaker 2 Let's be real.

Speaker 1 We all deserve snacks that hit that sweet spot, delicious and better for you. That's where Skinny Pop Popcorn comes in.

Speaker 1 Skinny Pop uses quality ingredients to bring you the light and tasty flavors you love. Skinny Pop keeps it simple and tasty, using quality ingredients to create light, craveable popcorn.

Speaker 1 The original ready-to-eat flavor is made with just three ingredients, popcorn, kernels, sunflower oil, and salt. Nothing more.
Nothing weird.

Speaker 1 And if you're feeling adventurous, they've got plenty of flavors to choose from. White cheddar, sweet and salty kettle, and more.

Speaker 1 It's always non-GMO, gluten-free with plenty of vegan-friendly options too. I started taking a little bit of a more break from the sweet side of my life with like candy bars.

Speaker 1 I mean, I still eat them and stuff, but for movie night, I still go to Skinny Pop just because of the natural ingredients. I love it.
It tastes so good and it goes great with a movie.

Speaker 1 And my favorite is the original Skinny Pop. I love it.
I eat a whole bag in one sitting almost. Skinny Pop popcorn, deliciously popped, perfectly salted.
Shop Skinny Pop now.

Speaker 1 This is an ad by BetterHelp. Have you ever had someone that you haven't reached out to in a long time and you're just like, you know what, just do it.

Speaker 1 I just did that recently and it was such a wonderful experience. We had a great lunch, a lot lot of catching up, and I'm so glad we did it.
It was great.

Speaker 1 As the seasons change, shorter days don't have to weigh you down. This season, BetterHelp encourages you to reach out, check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones, and remind them you're there.

Speaker 1 Just like it takes a little courage to send that text or grab coffee with someone you haven't seen in a while, reaching out for therapy can feel difficult too, but it can be worth it.

Speaker 1 It can leave people wondering, why didn't I do this sooner? With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp is one of of the leading online therapy platforms.

Speaker 1 BetterHelp therapists are fully qualified. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals.
This month, don't wait to reach out.

Speaker 1 Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step.

Speaker 1 Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/slash smartless. That's betterhelp.com/slash smartlist.

Speaker 2 What is it that gets you guys really nervous?

Speaker 2 Now that you guys are very good and accomplished and seasoned at a lot of things that you're doing, are you guys thinking about areas that might get you outside of your comfort zone?

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, also just performing too, to piggyback on Jason's question, because you already performed at the Grammys and the Oscars.

Speaker 1 The Oscars?

Speaker 3 We were terrible at the Grammys and terrible at the Oscars.

Speaker 1 I just know. We bombed the only two really big performances we were supposed to do.

Speaker 3 I literally, I can't even look at pictures of me performing on a puke.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 Well, you're good actors then.

Speaker 1 The Oscars. We were so nervous.
So scary.

Speaker 3 The Oscars was the scariest thing because it's the coolest one of them all.

Speaker 3 Because actors are just classier than musicians. They're just

Speaker 1 so nuts.

Speaker 1 They are. It's such a cliche, right?

Speaker 2 Like actors get nervous around musicians and musicians get nervous about athletes and athletes get nervous about, you know, it's all grass is always greener.

Speaker 1 Well, the difference between the Grammys and the Oscars is like everyone at the Grammys walks up on stage and their first thing

Speaker 1 is they're like,

Speaker 1 wow, I wasn't expecting this. And there's a lot of umming in Grammy acceptance speeches.
A lot of like very floppy.

Speaker 1 And like Oscar, like everyone, you know, I mean, most of them are actors, but, but even the, you know, sound mixing Oscar is, they have written

Speaker 1 speech.

Speaker 3 It's so professional and like classy that it's very intimidating. And I said that a lot after the Oscars and then there was articles where like Billy Eilish hates the Oscars.

Speaker 3 And I was like, no, no, no, guys. Oh, boy.
They're just really scary. And I was not used to that environment.

Speaker 1 I've never been to the Grammys, but it does seem like sometimes like a battle of who could care less, you know? Yeah, absolutely. People don't even show up sometimes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And they're like, oh, and today he's wearing a, he's wearing a small fiat to like, that's his wardrobe.
Holy fuck.

Speaker 1 It's also in the Staples Center and there's like thousands of actual audience members. And I think the Oscars is like, you know, it's, I mean, it's in that, what is it, the Hilton or the Dolby.

Speaker 1 But it's very intimate.

Speaker 1 It feels like I get it.

Speaker 3 Wasn't there a question at the beginning?

Speaker 1 I want to know

Speaker 1 what gets you guys nervous.

Speaker 2 What do you find that you dread? Like, if it's something is planned on a certain day and you wake up in the morning, you're like, oh.

Speaker 3 Oh, that's so good.

Speaker 3 Talk shows?

Speaker 2 It's talk shows for me.

Speaker 1 Is it really? You're so good on talk shows, though.

Speaker 1 Take a second look. Hang on, Will.
Take a second look. Right in the middle of a compliment.
I'm so fucking bored. Go ahead.

Speaker 1 All three of you are great on talk shows.

Speaker 2 Well, hang on, Phineas.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 3 Go on.

Speaker 2 No, yeah, it's the nerves that get me prepared for it. You know, if I wasn't nervous, I'd probably be worse.

Speaker 1 That makes sense. I get that.
It's the anticipation of it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But it is funny, though, because you never stop dreading things. I thought that maybe when I got to a certain age or success or whatever, that maybe like I would never dread anything again.

Speaker 3 And I dread things every day. I just normal things.
I just dread them.

Speaker 2 And it's that's that normal part of you that seems so healthy.

Speaker 1 Don't worry, it only gets worse.

Speaker 1 But it sounds very healthy. Yeah, but you know what's interesting is like, you know, Jason and Will and I have talked about this where I grew up in Chicago.

Speaker 1 And so I didn't grow up at all around any kind of Hollywood, Los Angeles.

Speaker 3 Your voice sounds just like my uncle's voice.

Speaker 1 Well, he must be gay.

Speaker 2 I don't know how Sean beat you to that one, Will.

Speaker 3 I'm sorry, go on.

Speaker 1 No, I mean, because he's an uncle. Let's just start there.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 no, growing up in Chicago, I would watch, I told Jason, I would watch Jason on TV when I was a little kid, and I would watch movies, and I would watch all these things and just dream and aspire to.

Speaker 1 I still, even when I would go on the Universal Lot, I would drive, just as a year ago, I'd be like, I can't believe I'm driving on the Universal Lot. Like, it never goes away.

Speaker 1 So, what was it like for you guys to grow up in it? Because you don't have the perspective like I had, which was it's so unattainable. It's so far away.
But you guys actually grew up inside of it.

Speaker 3 Well, we had that up until we were 13 and 17. So to me, I do feel like I had that

Speaker 3 because I also grew up a huge fan of like Bieber, for instance.

Speaker 3 Complete fan, like merch posters, waiting in line, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 And just to me, just like you're saying, it was completely irrational. Any idea of celebrity in general.
I was like, that doesn't happen to people.

Speaker 1 So just because you grew up in L.A. doesn't mean you would accept it any easier?

Speaker 3 No,

Speaker 3 I think that there's like people think it would. And I think that L.A.
definitely

Speaker 3 No, not definitely anything. I don't think it really did.
I mean, for us, because we didn't have famous,

Speaker 3 we didn't have famous parents and our parents didn't have...

Speaker 1 but they were both in the business right which was did that make it feel like sort of your pathway into the into any sort of entertainment was was somewhat uh more sort of natural or they validated our dreams and our aspirations but they didn't make them look easy no yeah yeah i think that you know we had like both our parents worked several part-time jobs because they were in and out of work um in terms of acting so it if anything it just kind of made us feel like maybe this isn't even ever going to work for us but you know I think the other thing that was to your point, Sean,

Speaker 1 maybe

Speaker 1 it doesn't feel weird if someone ends up doing something that wasn't a fantasy or a dream of theirs prior.

Speaker 1 But like, I wanted to make music from the time I was like 11 to the time I was like 18, 19, when anyone actually started to care about the music we made.

Speaker 1 And so those years of like, I know exactly what I want to do. I just have no idea if I'll ever really get a chance to do that

Speaker 1 were very daunting.

Speaker 3 But it felt felt completely unrealistic.

Speaker 3 I used to listen to Hall of Fame by

Speaker 3 what's it called this.

Speaker 1 Standing in the hall of fame

Speaker 1 and the world's gonna know your name.

Speaker 3 And I used to just listen to that and be like, damn, that'd be so crazy. Like, it'd be so crazy if people knew your name.

Speaker 3 And I was like, I would listen and be like, there's like, that doesn't happen though. It's just, it didn't feel like anything that could ever happen.
And it still is crazy that it happened.

Speaker 2 Does it feel now like you thought it might if you guys were ever able to get as successful as you dreamed of becoming? Now that you're there, does it feel like you thought it would be?

Speaker 1 It's way better.

Speaker 1 It is better. Oh, that's great.

Speaker 2 That's great. At this point, what is that? What part are you guys really, really digging?

Speaker 3 Honestly, the parts that I hated

Speaker 3 three years ago,

Speaker 3 those are the parts that I'm digging now.

Speaker 1 Fascinating.

Speaker 3 I don't know really how that works.

Speaker 1 What are those parts? What are those parts? yeah?

Speaker 3 Fame in general,

Speaker 3 I used to just despise it. I hated everything about it.
I hated being recognized. I hated not being able to go out.

Speaker 3 I hated, you know, not being able to post a place because then people would show up at that place, wherever it was, because they'd just figure out where it was.

Speaker 3 I really hated everything about it. And I felt stupid because I was like, wow, I have this thing that like...

Speaker 3 is really cool and people would kill for this and I don't like it at all.

Speaker 3 And, you know I was also forgetting that I was really really depressed and that can make you hate almost anything and I don't really know what changed but

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 3 fucking love fame I gotta tell you I just I love it is it because

Speaker 2 you're more comfortable with it because you feel more worthy of it or you like what you're doing with it or

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 3 I definitely like what I'm doing with it and I feel

Speaker 3 I feel more confident in it. I think that there were some years,

Speaker 3 like the years I'm talking about, where I felt like I had to prove myself all the time. Yeah.
Especially to kids like I grew up with.

Speaker 3 Like we had this, we, you know, we have this like tradition of like going to our friend's house for like, what, 4th of July or whatever.

Speaker 3 And there was just a couple years where I felt so lame because I... I felt like people thought of me as like a joke, like people that knew me my whole life.

Speaker 1 And I felt like every time I went and saw people I used to know I had to like prove that I was actually doing pretty well but nobody believes you because you know they they don't think about it because why would your friend that you knew since you were a kid suddenly of course I understand that making that that leap from feeling weird about it and not knowing how to deal with fame and getting to a place of comfort I mean there's a whole before you guys were born you two did that record after Joshua Tree they did that pop record which was basically Bono's whole sort of struggle with fame and he played a version of himself.

Speaker 1 And I think that a lot of that was him trying to figure out all of a sudden he's Bono and he's and he's doing these great things in the world.

Speaker 1 And then you get to a place and now when you talk to Bono, he's very comfortable with who he is.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I was just going to say, it's so much healthier, Billy, to say, I fucking love fame than not. And you've processed it quicker than a lot of people do.

Speaker 3 I feel like I can say it because I hated it. And so when I say it, I'm not trying to be like, I'm so cocky.

Speaker 3 And I'm, you know, because I have fame, but it's like, I think that we should be aware that, and you guys too, like, we should be aware that we have an incredible thing that we get to do.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're very privileged. Look at Jason.

Speaker 1 The pandemic is like for Jason, it's been terrible because he hates having to wear a mask. He doesn't want to cover his face because he wants people to know it's him.
And it's fucking killing him.

Speaker 1 So I got a mask made with the bottom half of my face from a photo so I can wear the mask because he's still recognized. His happiness is pegged

Speaker 2 So in five years and ten years, 15 years, you guys still making albums that you love? Do you do you see yourselves diversifying into producing other young artists and launching them?

Speaker 2 I mean, I know, Phineas, you do a lot of that. And

Speaker 2 you guys have hit so much success so young. Do you think about mapping it out? Like, Jesus Christ, we keep this thing going for another 30 years.
We're only 50.

Speaker 1 Not everybody else has the mind of a serial killer, Jason.

Speaker 1 Like, what do you do?

Speaker 2 Where do you, can you, it's, it's, it's so white hot already.

Speaker 3 Um, I try not to think about it. Um, I really have a strong feeling of, of wanting to be,

Speaker 3 to have longevity.

Speaker 1 Yeah. We think about longevity a lot.
I think, you know, Billy is very multi-talented and has a great eye for visual media and stuff.

Speaker 1 I think we've talked a lot about how our favorite art, like almost almost no one has, like, any more than five good albums.

Speaker 1 Most people have like one good album, and then no one has more than five good albums, I think. Um, and so we kind of are like, Except Drake.
Except Drake. Yeah.

Speaker 1 An unlimited supply.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he does. He just keeps going.

Speaker 1 When you're going to listen to music that's not your own, who are you listening to right now? Like, who do you? A lot of the Carpenters, honestly. Really? Wow.
Come on.

Speaker 1 You don't know what you're missing. You don't know what you're missing.
They're amazing. We love the Carpenters, just not all the time.

Speaker 3 So currently, I've been listening to a lot of Julie London.

Speaker 3 She's just been setting the mood for me somehow.

Speaker 3 Also, Arlo Parks just put out an album that's really good.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 But honestly,

Speaker 3 I've just been replaying the unreleased songs we have because I really like them.

Speaker 3 And I'm very happy with them.

Speaker 2 When do those change from un to released?

Speaker 3 When the album comes out. Well, when

Speaker 3 you can't tell anyone.

Speaker 1 Come on. Make news.

Speaker 1 You guys have been super generous

Speaker 2 with your time. No, Will, that's the end of it.

Speaker 1 You guys,

Speaker 2 we've exceeded our promised hour.

Speaker 1 It's been so fun, though.

Speaker 2 We love you both deeply, immensely.

Speaker 1 We love you guys. You guys are such huge talents.
It's really exciting to meet you guys.

Speaker 3 We're big fans of you guys, so this is very exciting.

Speaker 1 Even after this talk, I listen to Smartlist. My girlfriend and I both listen to it all the time.
Come on.

Speaker 1 And because I feel like we've cyber-bullied Sean on this episode, I wanted to close with my favorite thing Sean's ever said, which is during like an ad read at one point, Jason, you go, Yeah, I just had an energy bar, and Sean goes, Oh, when does that kick in?

Speaker 1 I thought that was a fire that made me like howl laugh. That really killed me.
It's so funny.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of cruelness that gets thrown around this

Speaker 1 Zoom chat. Well, it's cruelty, and there's your education rearing its ugly head again.
So, thank you.

Speaker 1 You guys, you're the best. Guys, thank you.
It was so exciting to meet you for me, truly, and for all of us. I just really, really, truly, honestly, a huge thank you.
Thank you guys.

Speaker 1 Thank you for doing this.

Speaker 2 Continued success. Push that album out soon, please.
We'd like more music.

Speaker 1 We'll try.

Speaker 1 We love you guys. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 Such a treat.

Speaker 2 Bye, you guys. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Now, listen, you know, I'm a parent. I hope my kids grow up to be like that and that they still get along and they're productive.

Speaker 1 Did we talk about this before? Would you guys ever homeschool or did you? Or?

Speaker 2 I've got my own scars of sort of like not being involved in a regular school as a kid and sort of losing out on the social structure of it all that I would not, but that's only because of my own baggage.

Speaker 2 I'm sure it's great.

Speaker 1 I'm sure it's fine. Right.
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 Will, would you ever homeschool Archie and Abel?

Speaker 1 No, this is the closest we've come to it, obviously, during the pandemic. And so it's not going well? Well, no, I mean, it's going as well as it's going for everybody.
It's very, very trying.

Speaker 1 And I think that what we're missing is that socialization. And, you know, you can't stress enough how important that is, I think, for my kids.

Speaker 2 Billy and Phineas, they seem to be a great person.

Speaker 1 But they've turned out great. I know, I know.

Speaker 2 But like, where do they go to like,

Speaker 2 how would you meet a boyfriend or a girlfriend if you're homeschooled?

Speaker 1 I don't know. And they're like four years.
He's like four years older than her, too, or something, right? So like they weren't,

Speaker 1 like my kids, it's different for them even during this pandemic because they're so close in age um

Speaker 1 you know a lot of their friends are very similar and you know of similar age and blah blah blah it must be tough when you're you're a younger sister and your your brother's four years older than you yeah that's a huge you know you're you're a freshman while your brother's a senior in high school yeah and that's that's a big

Speaker 1 school together yeah yeah yeah i've always wondered that i just i i think it's fascinating like i read this about billie eilish and her parents and that they just constantly reinforced creativity around the house.

Speaker 1 So, you couldn't get that at a public school. I mean, yes, you can in certain

Speaker 1 programs and stuff, but it's constant at home. It's always constant.

Speaker 2 I'm sure they're reaping the benefits of having such a stable upbringing and such a close and healthy relationship with their parents that they're in this

Speaker 2 cauldron of anxiety or temptation or

Speaker 2 that they've got that solid home base is probably really helpful for them.

Speaker 1 If I had kids,

Speaker 1 and I saw that as an example, I'd be like, yeah, maybe I should homeschool. But we do have, like, we have, the three of us have mutual friends.

Speaker 1 I can think of a couple people who have, who homeschool their kids, and it really works out for them.

Speaker 1 And it so happens that because of their, because of how much they're in the public eye and how well known they are, that it really works for, I mean, apart from the fact that it worked for them in terms of travel and stuff because of work, but also because of that level of

Speaker 1 notoriety.

Speaker 1 And now, because of COVID, everybody's homeschooling. Yeah.
And so, like, first of all, it's served them well during COVID because they're like, we know what we're doing in this environment.

Speaker 1 So the last year and a half has been good. Exactly.
And,

Speaker 1 but also, you know, they've figured it out. Jason, have you? Did you know Billy to bring her on the show? And by the way, great guests.
Thank you very much. Unbelievable guests.

Speaker 2 I met them at Kimmel's show

Speaker 2 and they were super complimentary about Arrested Development and they liked Ozark.

Speaker 1 So, Sean, Arrested Development is a TV show cheers. But let me finish.
Let me finish.

Speaker 2 But what they really loved was Cheers.

Speaker 1 So, Sean,

Speaker 1 you

Speaker 1 great. And how long, Sean, were you on Cheers? So, you know, I was at first a day player.
Yeah. And then I did a really good job.

Speaker 2 Expanded him to the postman. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, you did the post guy. Oh, man.
I love that. How I am.
Ah, Naomi. Hey, Normie.

Speaker 1 Anyway, Billy and Finn

Speaker 1 were fantastic, weren't they? Yeah,

Speaker 2 they're an inspiration to every brother and sister out there.

Speaker 2 Smart,

Speaker 2 lost.

Speaker 3 Hey, Fidelity.

Speaker 3 What's it cost to invest with the Fidelity app?

Speaker 3 Start with as little as $1 with no account fees or trade commissions on U.S. stocks and ETFs.
Hmm. That's music to my ears.
I can only talk.

Speaker 1 Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Zero account fees apply to retail brokerage accounts only.
Sell order assessment fee not included.

Speaker 1 A limited number of ETFs are subject to a transaction-based service fee of $100. See full list at Fidelity.com/slash commissions.
Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC member NYSE SIPC.

Speaker 1 Here's a quick podcast for all you true crime fans: the case of the missing Reeses.

Speaker 1 It was me at the store with my mouth. Motive? Um, they're Reese's.
What was I going to do? Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler, I will.

Speaker 1 Wow, that had everything.

Speaker 1 Reese's, suspense,

Speaker 1 Reese's.