"Ricky Gervais"

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Speaker 1 Hey there, Will Arnett here from Smartless. It's the podcast where Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and I interview somebody.

Speaker 1 Two of us don't know who that person is because one of us has brought on a surprise guest. That's the whole conceit.
I wish I could describe it better, but I'm not that smart.

Speaker 1 So it's smartless and it's starting now. Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 You never did a guest spot over on the Morkin Mindy, huh?

Speaker 2 No, but I would have.

Speaker 1 What was your best guest spot when you were a kid? Knightrider.

Speaker 2 Yeah, of course. Knightrider just made my year.

Speaker 2 I was 15, and so I couldn't drive yet. So this was an opportunity not only to guest on the best show in the world, but also drive a Trans Am owned by the Hoff

Speaker 2 and see how they do all the tricks over there. They had like a little guy sitting behind the seat that was like looking through this mesh sort of headpiece in the seat.

Speaker 2 I loved all the movie magic.

Speaker 1 I was going to say, you would have made a good computer if they already had, you would have been a good, I would have cast you as a computer. I'd still cast you as a computer.

Speaker 1 Wait, because I know that about you, it was on the other day, not your episode, but Knight Rider. And Scotty and I turned it on, and they did this like...

Speaker 1 super fancy interior shot of the car.

Speaker 1 And I'm telling you right now, it was disgusting in there.

Speaker 1 It was like, there was like dust and like wrappers all around it and like all the scratches on it like it was not pristine at all wow the onset dresser was not great on

Speaker 1 35 years later you're taking shots at uh you know transpo and picture card great

Speaker 1 Great. We'll have the local on your ass by Monday.
Hey guys, I'm so glad that we're here today because we have a guest on our show.

Speaker 1 And we say this a lot, you know, deserves no introduction, but this is just another example of that. This is a person who has won almost every award it's possible to win.

Speaker 1 Well, you know what? I'll let him tell you about it, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Ricky Gerbes.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 oh, it's a nice shot of the awards in the back. Look at all the awards.

Speaker 1 Guys, it's not all of them.

Speaker 1 It's half of them.

Speaker 1 There's lots of walls.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 I nearly laughed a couple of times when I was waiting.

Speaker 1 Wait,

Speaker 2 what did you win the guitar for?

Speaker 1 I didn't win that, did I?

Speaker 2 That's just something for the ladies.

Speaker 1 When they're looking at your awards, let me play a little tune for you. Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Oh, my words. Look at it.
What a joy. What a joy this is.
Yeah, it's so nice to meet you. I've never met you.
I'm a huge, huge, huge fan. Thank you.
How's it going, man? Good, man.

Speaker 1 You guys don't know each other. No.
No.

Speaker 1 You know, there's one time I saw you standing outside of the Beverly Hills Hotel and there was nobody else. And I was like, oh my God, that's Ricky.

Speaker 1 I'm a huge fan. Should I say something? And then I fast-forward in my head, if I just go, Hey, hey, Ricky, I'm Sean.

Speaker 1 And if I didn't know if you knew who I was, and then you'd be like, hey, and then it would just end. And so I was like, maybe I should skip that.
It's kind of how it's going now.

Speaker 1 It's kind of what's happening.

Speaker 1 Well, you know,

Speaker 1 one time I was at a Christmas party at Meg Ryan's house. This is decades ago.
And Steven Spielberg was in there and I'm talking and I've never met him. And he's like, oh, my God.

Speaker 1 And I couldn't believe he knew who I was. We were talking and talking, talking for like two hours.
It was awesome. And then I made this huge goodbye.
I was like, bye, Steven. Nice to meet you.

Speaker 1 I go out to the valet in front of the house and nobody's there, right? And I'm waiting for my car. I'm waiting for my car.
And then Steven Spielberg walks up and it's just us two.

Speaker 1 And we already had a massive goodbye. So then I was like, hey, how are you? And it was just awful.
It would have been better if he had just said, hi, how are you? I'm Stephen. If he in that moment.

Speaker 2 Or if he just said, bye, Benjamin.

Speaker 1 Bye, Benjamin.

Speaker 1 Ricky, do you remember a few years ago you were walking across the street here in LA and I saw you and Jane walking across and I pulled up and I whirled my window down and I sort of said, hey, can I get a picture?

Speaker 1 And you were at first, you were like, oh, fuck, who's it? Yep. How you doing?

Speaker 1 Then you realize. And you went, don't give me the fucking wave.
It's Will. And you actually got out.

Speaker 2 We're going to let the guests talk here in a second, but how many times have you guys been in the car and you like honk at somebody and then you pull up alongside them and you know that person?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, you mean angrily honk. Yeah, but you

Speaker 1 Americans honk just at anything, wouldy-nilly.

Speaker 1 If an English person honks, it's like an affront. It's like...

Speaker 1 people get out what the but in america it's just like you honk for anything right yeah yeah it's like you've you've you've really devalued the honk, especially in Amuza Honk,

Speaker 1 I think you're right. We should take it back.
I think that you're right. Take it right back.
So, a honk is like

Speaker 1 the finger or something. What the fuck are you going to come out of? Hold on, hold on a second.

Speaker 2 What about time differences? So, you're in England, I'm in

Speaker 2 LA, so I'm drinking coffee. Was that ale I just saw?

Speaker 1 Ale.

Speaker 2 Is that what you people call it?

Speaker 1 Yes, forsooth. It was a mead, sire.

Speaker 1 Look at that. God, that looks good.
It's a beer. As opposed to a lager.

Speaker 2 uh well it's a it's an ipa an indian pale ale yes and what is that by the way that that that came in after i stopped so what is ipa oh oh am i the only drinker here now well sean no no no sean is a big sean's still up from last night yeah good um what is so the indian pale ale do we do you know what that is

Speaker 1 I can't be more specific.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's a three-word description. and

Speaker 1 I don't know of any other drink that's got three words already to really specify what it is.

Speaker 1 But wait a second, though.

Speaker 1 But wait a second.

Speaker 2 Indians were not known for making beer when I was last drinking beer. So where did that come from?

Speaker 1 Sorry, are you saying Indian in the real term, the subcontinent of India in Asia, or what you call Indians, which are Native Americans, just what you arrogantly called Indians? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I just want to say, Ricky, just give Jason enough rope. He's about to hang himself, Jason, to end my career.
No,

Speaker 1 leave some slack on it.

Speaker 2 But I'm assuming the Indian of Indian Pale Ale means people from India.

Speaker 1 Yes? Yes, I think so. I think it was

Speaker 1 probably something equally racist in that sort of British colonial history. Yeah.
So we said, we're having that. We're having that.
This is Indian paleo. It's ours now.
It's ours.

Speaker 1 I don't, I, I, honestly,

Speaker 1 we've gone into rounds beyond my knowledge of what I'm drinking. It all I know is it's five percent alcohol.
It's 6 p.m.

Speaker 1 That's all I need to know. And do you have a, is this a daily thing about this time that you have an Indian pale algae? Yes, it is.

Speaker 2 I mean, are you only good for about 20 minutes?

Speaker 1 Is this an intervention? Yeah, this is the intervention of the podcast. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Come on in, Jane. Jane, come on in.

Speaker 1 I'm going to jack up in a minute. Is that all right?

Speaker 1 Oh, that's fine. It's just drinking.
We don't mind.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Yeah.
So, did you just, you know, you're rewarding yourself because you've just probably, probably just popped out of the gym. You're probably in and out of the gym.

Speaker 1 Yeah, have you? Would you? Oh, of course. Yeah.
Look at that. He's showing us his guns.
And that's all natural. People say to me, hey, you on the juice.
I go, fuck you.

Speaker 1 Fuck you.

Speaker 1 But that's why they think your rage is outrageous.

Speaker 2 You know, you do have a build, Ricky. You always have.
Was there a time in your life when you were a gym rat and you just love to just blast bys and back?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Blast.

Speaker 1 Listen.

Speaker 2 You must have because that's that. You're not born with pipes like that, are you?

Speaker 1 No. No.
It's a shame this is only audio because they can't see me. They can imagine.
I'm posing at the moment and I've got terrible. My fake tan is dripping off me.

Speaker 2 With a guitar and an IPS.

Speaker 1 Exactly, yeah.

Speaker 1 I do

Speaker 1 work out every day. I try to.

Speaker 1 It's getting harder and harder.

Speaker 1 And I probably shouldn't be because everything is absolutely fucked on me now. I've got two sprained ankles, which is terrible.
I still run on. No, I have terrible knees.
I can't bend without cricket.

Speaker 1 I've got a bad back.

Speaker 1 My shoulders are fucked. I've got a tennis elbow.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm absolutely, but I refuse to stop doing anything. Mostly from street fighting.
Is that right? Because I hear.

Speaker 1 Yes. I'm like, yeah, yeah.
Hand to hand.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm punch drunk.

Speaker 1 But how old are you? 59.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm about to be 52 and everything hurts me.

Speaker 1 Fucking off. You're older than me.

Speaker 1 How dare you?

Speaker 1 This hair is real. Look at that.
Yeah, I've had no work. I don't have two body waxes a day.
Wait a second. Fucking Botox, you twat.

Speaker 2 I'm on swim team. I can't have any hair on my body.

Speaker 1 You're only, he's only 52. Is he telling the truth, Will? No, I won't be 52 till January.
Oh, Christ.

Speaker 1 He won't turn to the side because then you'll see the scotch tape and all the rubber bands and stuff. But from the front, he looks amazing from the front.

Speaker 1 Ricky, do you have a place in LA or do you only live in England? I've got a place in New York. I've had it for a while, actually.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 especially this year,

Speaker 1 I've spent most of my time in Leafy Hampstead.

Speaker 1 Will's been here. It's beautiful.
It's a great spot. And you live next to the vicar.

Speaker 1 I do, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, who is that? Well, it's just a vicar. He said the vicar, but it's a vicar.

Speaker 1 There's thousands that I live next to one of them. What's a vicar? A vicar? Yeah.
You don't know what a vicar is. Uh-oh.
Allow Ricky to relieve you of your ignorance. Go ahead, Ricky.

Speaker 1 A vicar, you might. It's a deep list.
Like a preacher. Like a preacher, like a local priest.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you live next to a priest?

Speaker 1 A vicar, yeah. It's true.

Speaker 1 You live next to a priest's house. Listen, this podcast is that, I mean,

Speaker 1 it's like I'm teaching you English. It's essentially, and then I have to explain it.
I mean, we spent three minutes on what's Indian pale ale. It's not that important.
What's a vicar? Fucking hell.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Well, listen, you've spent time with Bateman before, for Christ's sake.
You know what you're getting into. I have.
I couldn't believe my look.

Speaker 1 I was a huge fan of

Speaker 1 Teen Wolf.

Speaker 1 Sure. Two.

Speaker 1 Two. Oh, I haven't seen two.
No.

Speaker 1 You're not. Ah.

Speaker 1 So can I tell you, so the first time, Ricky, that I became aware of you was from watching The Office.

Speaker 1 And Janine Garoffilo had videotapes at the time of the office, and she brought them back and she gave them to Amy and me. And we watched them.
We were about to start arrested development.

Speaker 1 And Jason and I started watching both obsessively. And we were just absolutely obsessed with the office.
And we just thought we'd never seen anything like it. It was just brilliant.

Speaker 1 And I remember about you were coming to, you had come to LA for maybe the Golden Globes or something. And

Speaker 1 we met briefly and we exchanged numbers. And you were going to come to the set of Arrested Development, you remember? And I remember saying to the

Speaker 1 set PA, I said, can I get a drive-on at the lot? And she said, yeah, give me the name. And I said, Ricky Gervais.
And you weren't yet a household name in this country. Still not.

Speaker 1 And she said, well, and she said, what is it? I said, Ricky, can you, and she said, can you spell it for me?

Speaker 1 And I actually stopped her and I said, I want you to remember this moment of you not knowing this name because you're going to be really embarrassed when you look back at it.

Speaker 1 And she was like, okay, whatever. And

Speaker 1 and you came. And that was our first experience.
And we were just, Jason, do you remember how blown away we were back? We couldn't.

Speaker 2 I couldn't get enough of that show. And I still, it's uncomfortable for me to even talk to Ricky.
I'm a little starstruck.

Speaker 2 It was.

Speaker 1 Oh, I ended up getting enough of it. I ended up getting enough of it.

Speaker 2 That was at the very beginning of the show. That and Jeffrey Tambour shaped, at least for me, the whole comedic tone of arrested development.

Speaker 2 I kind of knew that there was that kind of funny, but I'd never seen it executed so consistently. And that was just sort of my North Star, what I was trying to, you know, point towards.

Speaker 1 It was a weird way to say this, but it was liberating to watch you in that show. It really was.

Speaker 1 It opened up a whole other, for me anyway, it felt like it opened up a whole other way of like, oh, okay, this, this is a possibility to go there. If he's not acting well, we can all get away with it.

Speaker 1 Then I can do it. Yeah, I mean, if he's just mumbling and not looking.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he makes me look like a genius.

Speaker 2 I mean, the comedy of discomfort and

Speaker 2 awkward pauses and loss of dignity with just sort of a look or a moment as opposed to jokes or anything like that.

Speaker 2 And that the length of those episodes allowed for that kind of editorial pace too is something that we sort of tried for. I don't think we could with our format, but

Speaker 1 well, I think it was lucky the format allowed me to do that with a fake documentary because I was emulating something. I was trying to emulate a very ordinary man who wanted to be famous.

Speaker 1 So it was sort of, it was easy to not be a trained actor doing that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, of course.
But what was the genesis? We've never really, I'm sure you've had to explain it before.

Speaker 1 It was an impression I used to do of like

Speaker 1 bosses and stuff. I worked in an office for like 10 years.
So it was like a Frankenstein of people I'd met growing up. And you suddenly, and I was always, I was always the idiot.

Speaker 1 I was always trying to make people laugh. And, you know, I was that guy.
I was sort of that guy without ambition, or rather, without without nerve. I think I'd lost my nerve.

Speaker 1 I'd just been a failed musician after like five years of trying and got a normal job. And then I worked my way up to sort of middle management in an office like that.

Speaker 1 In fact, the little pre-pilot that we shot, I went back to the office I used to work in and I used mates as extras. And I just, I just ad-lived around this character showing off to the camera.

Speaker 1 And the seed of that was we had 10 years of these quaint docusopes soaps in the 90s on british tv the new big thing was docusopes we had one called airport we had one called hotel we had one called um liner was a certain and it was just normal people filmed and they'd become sort of stars for 10 minutes

Speaker 1 and of course nowadays they become stars forever and make millions but then it was that was their 15 minutes of fame and you know you wheel them out 10 years so it was ordinary people wanting to be famous and was it the same type of format would they address camera?

Speaker 2 Would there be testimonials and things like that?

Speaker 1 Uh, yeah, there was there was usually uh a narration as well, but um, we didn't do that.

Speaker 1 But there was often it was things like the cement for the swimming pool is late and they have to open in an hour. It was stuff like that,

Speaker 1 right?

Speaker 2 Was it sort of a Michael aptitude? Was it inspired by the up series at all?

Speaker 1 Uh, do you think? Well, that was that's the the greatest, that's incredible. I mean, that's still going, and that, and uh, yeah, yeah, but that's, that really is beautiful social commentary.
Sure.

Speaker 1 These got watered down, you know, and then people would be doing them because they think, well, I can be famous. Everyone says I'm a laugh.
I'll go on there.

Speaker 1 And it's like, there was suddenly too much, you know. So then it was people trying to be famous.
And so that's what I picked up on with Brent, that

Speaker 1 he was a bit sad, he was forgotten, and he thought, now's my chance. And if it wasn't a fake documentary, it wouldn't work.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 because once you know why david brent is acting like that it's it's it's so tangible it's it's so great that he just wants to be loved and famous and it's heartbreaking in a hilarious way yeah

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Speaker 1 I think that one of the things that I certainly personally really connect with what you do is it that desperation.

Speaker 1 So many of your characters have this sort of misplaced or they just they're so desperate for whatever it is. It's so funny.
It's so funny and sad at the same time that

Speaker 1 I think the funniest characters and obviously in real life,

Speaker 1 the documentary aspect of it, we like real life is the most dramatic and the funniest.

Speaker 1 Comedy and fiction can only try to emulate all those things in real life.

Speaker 1 But someone trying to be funny and who's successful isn't as funny as someone who doesn't want to be funny and wants to be taken seriously.

Speaker 1 So my favorite characters were those people that demanded being taken seriously. So, it undermines everything.

Speaker 1 Someone being pretentious and then slipping on a banana skin is funnier than a clown slipping on a banana skin because we know the clown doesn't care. He wants to slip a lot.

Speaker 1 So, I think when someone wants to be taken seriously or says things like, I am a comedian, that's funny. I remember.

Speaker 1 I remember getting a letter soon after the office, right, by someone saying, writing to get a part.

Speaker 1 And the letter started, Dear Mr. Gervais, I am a brilliant actor,

Speaker 1 and I thought it was signed, Sean.

Speaker 1 Oh, still, you got it. You got it

Speaker 1 because I didn't, I still haven't heard, so I don't know if you got it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, desperation is funny, anger's funny, people with no sense of humor is funny, people with no sense of humor is funny.

Speaker 2 One of the things I think is so admirable about you, and there's no question here, so don't feel the need to respond because I know your humility will keep you from doing that. But you're all

Speaker 2 all the vulnerability that you put into David Brent and many other characters that you play is really the root of the of the comedy.

Speaker 2 The man is so broken and a mess inside that that is what I find so heartbreakingly hilarious about it.

Speaker 2 Yet on your stand-up, it is almost the polar opposite of that in that there's so much confidence and judgment is sort of the character character that you play, and you can still get equal laughs with that.

Speaker 2 So, the fact that you're able to make people, you know, double- Well, that's very interesting because

Speaker 1 I don't think you need

Speaker 1 stand-up, slightly different.

Speaker 1 Stand-up is slightly different to fiction in the sense that when you do a sitcom or a film or whatever, you do your best and you try and you try and make the plot work and the characters work and the art, and you do all that, and then you put it out there, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Speaker 1 With stand-up, you do it every night, and the audience, it's more like evolution by natural selection because they choose the bits for you.

Speaker 1 It's more like a science because it either works or it doesn't. And by the end, you've got a perfect thing that works every night to everyone around the world because it's tried and tested.

Speaker 1 It's, you know, they've chosen it for you. So that's slightly different.
So, what you don't want with stand-up is an audience to feel sorry for you because you haven't got time. You don't want that.

Speaker 1 No, you don't want that. No, because

Speaker 1 it's the purest, like the purest desire, because it's the purest, because jokes are are more of an intellectual pursuit.

Speaker 1 You don't really need a context for joke, again, because they work or they don't. A joke can sort of work on the page.
You can read a joke and it still works. You don't need someone telling it.

Speaker 1 Obviously, you add to that. I think my favorite stand-ups do add to that.
They've got a context. They build character.

Speaker 1 They've got props. Yeah, they're props.
Props in a bag. Sure.
Those are your favorite snaps. You love a prop comic, be honest.

Speaker 1 You are being humble here.

Speaker 2 What I'm trying to say is that the comedic flavor, right, your comedy comes from vulnerability, let's say, in David Brent. But with the stand-up, it comes from sort of this feigned brash arrogance.

Speaker 2 And that you're able to do both so well, I find just incredible.

Speaker 1 Well, that's just because it's another character and you commit to it. And that that evolves as well.

Speaker 2 But you can't just write a bunch of jokes and anybody can say them and they're going to get the same laugh.

Speaker 1 No, but you can, because like.

Speaker 1 By the time humanity came round, I'd sort of hit that sweet spot where the audience had known me for 15 years. So they knew what I was doing.
They knew the irony.

Speaker 1 They understood the nuance without me having to explain it. So I could come out and hit the ground running.

Speaker 1 The important thing is this: behind the scenes, right, I think with particularly stand-up, is traditionally a low-status thing. We're a court jester.

Speaker 1 We go out there with the other peasants and we tease the king. Okay.

Speaker 1 And everyone knows what comedians earn these days. So I can't really go out there and pretend to be struggling, right? I think

Speaker 1 that would be nauseating and dishonest. I would like to see you try, though.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So I keep my low status in two ways.
One, I invite them behind the curtain. I say, what,

Speaker 1 you think it's plain saving, do you, being British? Well, look what happened to me when I met so-and-so, or first time I took a private jet, they thought I was the cook. So I do all that, right?

Speaker 1 And the other way I do it is I talk about things where I'm worse off than them. I talk about being fat and old and in pain and going bald.
And do you know what I mean? And being hated by the family.

Speaker 1 I don't know what you mean. I don't know what you mean.

Speaker 1 But let me,

Speaker 1 do you think, I mean, Ricky, you started as a stand-up, you were doing stand-up before, right?

Speaker 1 You'd been doing stand-up off and on, yeah, for years. No,

Speaker 1 I started before the office, but I only started in about 1999, I'd say, was my first try. And then you started doing that in 99, then the office hits.

Speaker 1 And then over the last 10 years or 15 years, as you've grown and done more and more stand-up, you kind of build that currency, right, with your audience. Like that, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 You build the momentum of that sort of relationship that you have. Yeah, I have to go out there and I want to be the one that says the wrong thing.

Speaker 1 Whatever the current regime is, I have to say the wrong thing. I have to go against the grain, which is why it was hard for the last sort of few years.
You know,

Speaker 1 I didn't realize half the people would agree with those things on face value. So irony was put in danger danger recently.

Speaker 1 I remember going to that small little theater. You were working stuff out.
I remember like a couple of years ago, I came up there

Speaker 1 and you were working out jokes in the audience. And I remember you, first of all, the relationship was they knew you.
They came because they were huge fans. You had a limited number of seats.

Speaker 1 It was basically free, but you were working stuff out. And the relationship was, hey, I'm trying stuff.

Speaker 1 And some stuff was, you know, over the line for them or whatever, but you were just figuring out.

Speaker 1 Well, that's the thing. You know,

Speaker 1 you do have to find the funny, but you have to go for it and you have to be able to play.

Speaker 1 And that's the problem again with today as well, because I've done shows that I'm trying stuff out and it's been reviewed. And I'm going to go, well, that's mad.

Speaker 1 You can't do that. You can't do someone who's just started a painting and going, it's rubbish.
I haven't done it yet. I've just done the bat.
You know,

Speaker 1 it's crazy. So.
you have to fight against that.

Speaker 1 And I try and keep politics, explicit politics, out of comedy because I think if you're relying relying on the audience agreeing with you and getting a round of applause, it loses something comedically.

Speaker 1 I want my jokes to be liked. I don't care whether they're right-wing or left-wing or whatever, right? Because the joke either works or it doesn't.
And it actually shouldn't matter.

Speaker 1 It is meaningless anyway nowadays, left and right-wing. It's a meaningless term.

Speaker 1 I think it's important that you evolve, but not with those reasons. You don't evolve because it might be taken the wrong way.
You don't evolve because you might be bullied by a reviewer.

Speaker 1 You don't evolve because you want everyone to like it. That gets you nowhere.
When did that happen for you? Because that's a certain fearlessness that I think you have to achieve.

Speaker 1 You can't, I'm sure there was part of you when you were much younger that you didn't have that, right? I've probably got more fear now, but you have to fight it.

Speaker 1 You have to know that art is being brave. It is being brave and putting out there.

Speaker 2 Because you've got more to lose now, right?

Speaker 1 Well, it just makes me angry.

Speaker 1 It makes me angry if people don't get something or so so that makes me work harder to still get the same joke out there and everyone like it and be able to defend it and sleep at night which i always have done there's this myth that uh i've got there and i say what i want and i don't care about what people think of me that's just not true it's it's it's a hell of a challenge to um i do love it what you do say at the end of it i don't care you know yeah of course i love that and that's that's marketing right and it and it and you have have to be militant about it.

Speaker 1 You have to act like you don't care.

Speaker 1 But actually, you know, it annoys me when

Speaker 1 any sort of

Speaker 1 someone thinks that you've done this or you've gone too far. Or I want to go, well, I've worked that joke for a year with like hundreds of thousands of people.

Speaker 1 You've thought about it for three seconds. And you've got it wrong.
I think because reviews now are so fast and people don't think there's no nuance on social media. Like 10 years ago,

Speaker 1 say 20 years ago, if someone complained about something, it would make me think. I'd go, oh God, you know, really.
Now someone says I'm offended. I'd go, yeah, of course you are.
Everyone is.

Speaker 1 It doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I brought this up before that you have that great tweet that's been shared millions of times, I think, now, which you say, just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right. I know.

Speaker 1 People even understand that and they still fall for it. They still think, no, this is different.

Speaker 1 I did a tweet when I was doing the warm-up for this new show. I said, guys, are there any things I should never joke about? And of course, everything people said was funny.

Speaker 1 Everything people said was funny. They listed diseases, things like that.
One person said

Speaker 1 losing two children, which I thought was just an amazing thing to tweet. Just an amazing thing.
As opposed to one? Yeah. I think so.

Speaker 1 So specific.

Speaker 1 So specific. It's sadder than one, but funnier than three.
I mean, that's

Speaker 1 a definite for sure. I remember, I said something similar years ago on Twitter,

Speaker 1 but something along the lines like,

Speaker 1 apropos of of nothing, like, I hope you're not offended.

Speaker 1 And all these people immediately got on me. A few people sort of saying, like, well, what is it you're talking about? They were pre-offended.
Yeah. And I hadn't even said anything.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Of course. So, yeah, so you're right.
It's watered it down. Who gives a shit? Because it amplifies it.
You know,

Speaker 1 Twitter is like reading every toilet wall in the world. Okay.
And when you look at like that, you shouldn't ever be offended by anything on Twitter. But it also depends on the messenger.

Speaker 1 Like, I I think you are a messenger of that. Like you said, like, it's all branding and marketing.
That's who you are. It's kind of like Don Rickles, who I thought was always hilarious.

Speaker 1 He was so offensive to everybody he met, but because it was Don, it was almost okay. But if it's somebody else trying, it's not going to work.
Well, that's the other thing as well.

Speaker 1 It's like I'm offended when a comedian says sorry. Right.
Yeah. Because

Speaker 1 it usually means they've got a film coming out or something.

Speaker 2 The last The last big venue stand-up I went to was you at the Hollywood Highland. I don't know how many years ago.
That business of big venue for stand-ups.

Speaker 1 Ricky would text me from time to time on his way to an arena and just like, oh, God, 18,000 tonight. I don't even know.

Speaker 1 I don't even know if that's a good question. That's a big number.

Speaker 1 Sorry, I've got to go. Lost perspective.
18,000 people are waiting. Sorry, I've got a dash.
Wait, Ricky, can I ask you something? Because I don't know if I'm... I hope I get to see you again.

Speaker 1 I just so far it's not looking great. It's not going good.

Speaker 1 I think you're brilliant, but you know, I always wanted to ask you, like,

Speaker 1 I always found it interesting. You and I share several things in common.
Like, I started out really early wanting to be a pop star like you, but you kind of succeeded with an album and everything.

Speaker 1 And we're both gay, right?

Speaker 2 He was ready for that.

Speaker 1 I don't know that's okay. He was ready for that.
That's not this podcast. This episode is about to go huge.
We've both slept with Bateman. yesterday.

Speaker 1 Nice. And live to tell about it.
Podcast.

Speaker 1 No, but. Can I go and get a beer? Oh.
Yeah, go get a beer. Hang on.
Let him go get a beer. Okay, good.

Speaker 1 Hi, guys.

Speaker 1 Hi. JB, what happened to your hand?

Speaker 2 I was pulling my golf bag out of the back seat of my Tesla.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Is that wait? Is all of that true so far?

Speaker 2 And I sprained the tip of my ring finger.

Speaker 1 Yes. Well, I'm glad you got ill.
So maybe we can get back to my question about music.

Speaker 1 So listen.

Speaker 1 Jesus, Sean. Keep us on the rails, Sean.

Speaker 1 I'm actually interested just because I find it interesting that you were also very seriously. Like I've seen those music videos, and I just thought it was interesting that you pursued that.

Speaker 1 And were you all in on that? And then it didn't work out, or were you pursuing that and acting at the same time or whatever made you famous? You know, and then you had to be in the middle of the day.

Speaker 1 Yeah, all in, but in retrospect, did it all wrong?

Speaker 1 I was in a band. because I love those songs, by the way.
Thank you. Um, it was it was very fast, it was it came and went very, very quickly.

Speaker 1 And I think you only know about it now because I'm famous for something else, and those pictures and videos pop up on Jimmy Fallon.

Speaker 1 So, like anyone else in every generation, um, I think it was yeah, I found it fascinating because I was pursuing the same thing, and I also then went into comedy.

Speaker 1 Well, it okay, so it started at college, and we did a demo tape, and we got signed, and we did two singles, and then we were dropped.

Speaker 1 And it was like it started and finished within a year, and that was it. Oh, wow! You know, I think even if it had been a success then in 1984, whatever it was, it would still have been over, Crippy.

Speaker 2 But there are some bands that were good back then that are still around.

Speaker 1 Like, and would you and Rick Astley have done a duet? Do you think you and Rick would have

Speaker 1 wham, or it would have certainly been, um,

Speaker 1 you know, we started with the sort of the hair and makeup and synth pop, but this is the mistake I made. The mistake I I made was I wanted to be a pop star and I should have wanted to be a musician.

Speaker 1 And when I started doing this, I realized that

Speaker 1 I consciously and militantly called myself a writer-director. So people didn't think that I just wanted to be on telly because I didn't.
And I came to it very wary. I came to this very, very wary.

Speaker 1 Not because of the music thing, but because of, I think, the press in England. And I never revered famous.

Speaker 1 I've never asked for an autograph. I've never been impressed by seeing a famous and I and I thought I thought that of myself.

Speaker 1 I thought the people I admire, I admire because they've done something absolutely brilliant. My heroes are like scientists and things like that.

Speaker 1 And Andrew Ridgely.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. So

Speaker 1 I feared fame. I didn't want to, I didn't sign that deal with the devil, make me famous and you can go through my bins.
In fact, I probably feared it too much.

Speaker 1 I was probably too minute, but now I'm sort of chilled

Speaker 1 and it's fine, you know. But don't you think people that have fame wanted it?

Speaker 1 Well, to a certain degree, yeah. But the other thing is, it's a bit ambiguous when you're an actor, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Because I think you're allowed to really want to be an actor because it's fun and it's great and it's interesting and it's better than most jobs.

Speaker 1 Without saying, I want to be famous. I think it can be because if you're a successful actor, you're probably a famous actor.
But

Speaker 1 thank you. And certainly, there were easier routes to being an actor than actually writing and directing a sitcom for three years.

Speaker 1 There's easier route. In fact, it annoyed me once when the office broke and it seemed like I was just famous overnight without all the work.

Speaker 1 Someone on the red carpet said to me, What advice would you give anyone else who wants to be famous like you? And I said, Go out and kill a prostitute.

Speaker 1 And they looked at me like I was mental.

Speaker 1 It just really annoyed me.

Speaker 1 Like that, like there's such easier ways to be famous than actually writing a sitcom from scratch. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1 Terms apply.

Speaker 1 Do offers come to you and you kind of flirt with that, or do you only create your own things and only want to create your own things?

Speaker 1 I think the offers uh have dried up because it's been no for like 10 years that i've usually been busy and and you start off in your flat and i remember uh i think the the second episode of the office had gone out in like 2001 and my agent got a call from uh a studio making this movie and they sent me the script and i said what part am i and they said the lead and i said it says here he's 26 right and i was 39 at the time or sort of 40.

Speaker 1 and they went we can change that and i thought okay and i I said, I think you need, I said, who's going to go and see this? No one knows me. And they went quiet.

Speaker 1 And I went, you need John Cusack for this. And they sort of went, okay, well, thanks for the call.
And in my head, I was oozing integrity. And they were going, what a guy.

Speaker 1 But actually, they probably went, what a fucking idiot. Who do you think he is? Turning down a lead movie.
He's not going to get out of there.

Speaker 1 That's interesting. And so, and so it was no because I was busy.
It was no all the way.

Speaker 1 The first one that I said yes to, because I read it, the first one i read actually um but jane would read them and say no no no or you might

Speaker 1 and the first one i did that i i thought if i don't do this i'll never do one was ghost town um and it just i was reading it and i was laughing i thought this is me yeah i love it this is this is me this is written for me and so i i did it and i loved it but um it still it still doesn't feel like mine the things i've done loads of things i've popped up in things i've done the golden globes i've done this and that but if i say what have you done I'd I'd list you know three or four sitcoms

Speaker 1 a couple of movies and my stand-up that's what I'd say was mine right right do you know what I mean is Jane uh your filter of pretty much like is she your go-to barometer of of everything yeah now I don't even I say no to everything because I'm sort of busy but when I'm working stuff out yeah I uh I run things by a um uh if I go for a run and I've got an idea for a routine, I come back and I say, what do you think of this?

Speaker 1 And she says, please don't do that. And

Speaker 1 I know it's good. I know.

Speaker 1 I love how many times we've been fucking around her having dinner or whatever, and how many times Jane has said, you guys have to keep your voice down. Shut the window.
Shut the window.

Speaker 1 I have one more question about the office.

Speaker 2 So it was an incredible

Speaker 2 success on its own. And then when it got brought here to America, another incredible success in Feather in Your Cap with that.

Speaker 2 Was it comfortable or uncomfortable to watch it take its, I don't know, necessary or unnecessary, slight comedic tone shift to an American pacing and whatnot?

Speaker 1 You've got to think that it's not your baby.

Speaker 1 You think that, you know,

Speaker 1 Ricky, just including that, because I was sort of going off what Jason's saying, it was such a huge shift. When you see, it changed the way, certainly in this country, people started making comedies.

Speaker 1 For sure, there was such a direct effect.

Speaker 1 I remember watching somebody on a very famous, who created a very famous, successful sitcom here, saying, you know, and then we decided in the pilot, why not have the characters talk to the camera?

Speaker 1 And I thought, shut up.

Speaker 1 Well, the thing is, I didn't invent the genre. In fact, my biggest influence, I think, writing it that was someone else's work was Spinal Tap, which is a fake documentary.

Speaker 1 That's just, I mean, that's no, no one owns a fake documentary. I suppose what was different, slightly different about it was that it was, um, we left the boring bits in.

Speaker 1 Like David Bent made bad jokes and no one laughed.

Speaker 1 I wanted that, I want to explore that gap, that social, that, because that's the worst thing for me. I don't get embarrassed, but I get embarrassed for other people.

Speaker 1 If we're in a group and someone makes a bad joke and no one laughs, I just want to go back in time and go, right, do it like this. Let's do this again.

Speaker 1 And Ricky, what you guys did so well on the show, and I remember this kind of reminds me of when Mitch Hurwitz was putting together the pilot of Arrested. What you've done so well is you.

Speaker 1 Anyone listening, Arrested is short for Arrested Development. It's a TV show.

Speaker 1 He just

Speaker 1 leaves off the last word. It's just, we haven't got, there's limited time.

Speaker 1 I worked out that if we said arrested development every time, it'd be three months of our life. Great.
Now we've got to go cut that out. But you.

Speaker 1 By the way, Ricky has called me on that like out loud in a restaurant. Arrested development.

Speaker 1 So, but

Speaker 1 what you did such a great job is when you put that show together, you recognized you'd have David Brent do the worst joke or do something super embarrassing, and then you always made sure to anchor that by looking at the reactions of the people around him.

Speaker 1 You whip hand or whatever, and that's what happened. I remember with arrested

Speaker 1 development, but that Mitch said that when he's putting the pilot together of arrested development, that he had

Speaker 1 doing, he was like, It's not working.

Speaker 1 And he realized that he needed to have all these crazy characters do stuff, and he needed to see jason's reaction to it because that put it in the context well that to me is that to me is the comedy someone doing something weird is one part of it but it's how does it fall what's the what's the fallout of it that's that's what's always interested me and again i learned that from laurel and hardy so stan doing something stupid was funny but it affecting ollie was the joke for me um that's what comedy some comedy didn't have before that there was no fallout no one got hurt in the wake of someone doing something ridiculous.

Speaker 1 Like people would be acting and they'd be saying something, but they'd be acting like he said something normal.

Speaker 1 And so you have to react to that. People.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's nothing weird about Martians on Mars. You put a Martian on Earth.

Speaker 2 That's interesting.

Speaker 1 Well, that's another, very good point because that's why.

Speaker 1 Again, David Bent was the boss.

Speaker 1 And so he shouldn't have been acting like that. He should have been the grown-up, but he was acting like the child.
So again,

Speaker 1 the big thing there was, you know, men as boys and women as adults, which again, I think is reflective. But again, Laurel and Hardy did that.

Speaker 1 The Laurel and Hardy, they were children and their wives had to catch them doing naughty things. Who was it that said steal from the best? And I certainly have in, you know, Laurel and Hardy and

Speaker 1 Chris Guest and those guys. So Ricky, what do you, because I'm like, this is going to be over and then he'll never talk to you again.
And we're going to go to after.

Speaker 1 And in my mind, you go off and you start writing and creating and doing all of these things but what is the reality like what does your days consist of what do you what do you do like what will you do tonight i'll uh i'll go and watch um arrest arrested a scoundy noir serial killer or spy thriller on netflix or amazon prime or walter presents or bbc4 i want european or middle eastern or south american drama i've just found i've just found now that with all these scriptures i can find the best dramas in the world and why don't you be in one yeah because i can't i can't speak any languages and also about english i see my favorite thing right this scandal drama it's like series three and suddenly an englishman or an american pops up and i go oh hell yeah they just they just ruin it yeah

Speaker 1 they just fucking ruin it have you watched long long grenage otherwise known as spiral that french cop show it's it might be one of the best programs ever it is amazing Another one as well.

Speaker 1 There's only one thing that might even be better than that, and that's The Bureau. Have you seen it? The Bureau.
Of course. It's

Speaker 1 incredible. It's incredible.
There's a great Belgian show as well called The Break. Have you seen it about this one? Amazing.
Have you seen? Oh, The 12th. Another Belgian thing.
The 12th. The 12th.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
Wait, did you have you guys seen Quincy?

Speaker 2 Yeah, and what about Chicago Fire, guys?

Speaker 1 These guys, Jason spends all his time trying to figure out how IPA is made, so he doesn't have time to watch. But that's that's so okay.
To quickly answer,

Speaker 1 I get up, I have a coffee, breakfast, we go for a long walk, which is which is habit now.

Speaker 1 Where we used to do that when we were allowed to go out one hour in the cat. What dogs, cats? I know you're a pickle.

Speaker 2 You don't walk a cat, you stupid ass.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 our cat died at the beginning of lockdown. We just got a new one.

Speaker 2 Oh, you see what you've done, Sean?

Speaker 1 Way to go, Sean. You funny dick.

Speaker 1 Go on, sorry.

Speaker 2 So you're walking the cats.

Speaker 1 No, we go for a walk. Just,

Speaker 1 I go for a walk, an hour's walk. I scruffle dogs.
Ricky, why don't you and Jane have a dog? Because I know you love dogs. I know, but why are you guys more, are you consider yourself cat people?

Speaker 1 Or why don't you have a dog? No, I absolutely love dogs.

Speaker 1 I love all animals. I think to me, all animals are unconditionally perfect and beautiful.
And, you know, the only animal that I think you can ethically keep is a pet, a domesticated animal.

Speaker 1 But I love all animals. But the reason I don't have a dog is we travel too much.
And a cat, you can have a cat sit, it doesn't care. Okay, a dog, I can't stand the dog.
The dog doesn't understand.

Speaker 1 They have an emotional intelligence beyond some people. I can't bear that I have to travel so often with a dog.
So, wait, then what happens with the cat?

Speaker 2 The cat just stays home, you leave that a big, big bowl of milk, and no, the other people look after it, don't we?

Speaker 1 You fall

Speaker 1 like the flintstones. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So, your guess is that cats are so so emotionally stable and secure that you can go travel around doing all your shows for a couple of weeks and they're good.

Speaker 2 But a dog, your guess is that they're just emotional basket cases and they need you there a little bit more often than once every couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 Well, it's it's it's it's based on um it's based on knowledge, isn't it? No, science, science

Speaker 2 because of all the interviews they've done with the cats and the dogs,

Speaker 1 yeah. So, is Jane, is Jane a dog or a cat?

Speaker 2 Jane's a woman.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 Is she like the independent, like you can go away and I don't need to see you? Or is she a dog? Like where she's like, I'm going to miss you. I need you back.
Oh, I see. Oh,

Speaker 1 I see. Yeah, I was trying to elevate.

Speaker 2 Jane's got some sexy indifference, like a cat, right? It's like she doesn't really need you. She's all fine by herself, you know, right?

Speaker 1 No. Jane, Jane, Jane.

Speaker 1 She needs you.

Speaker 1 I'd like to think Jane needs me. Wait, wait, wait.
Can you get through that one more time without laughing? That would be great.

Speaker 1 We're still rolling.

Speaker 1 She needs you.

Speaker 1 She does need you.

Speaker 1 And you could bring the dog, you know, because

Speaker 1 you're only gone a couple, a night here, a night there, because you've got to go and do these arenas. And God, God bless you.
And I feel the same way. I need to do arenas too.

Speaker 1 So let me ask you this. So what do you think?

Speaker 1 You've been at home. You've been working on.
I know you're working on series three.

Speaker 1 i'm working on my body now yeah that's why you can't see my hands oh he's doing he's doing leg lifts he's doing leg lifts under the table

Speaker 1 but you're you've written series three yeah of uh afterlife yeah yeah i mean i did that quite quickly yeah and series three is is season three

Speaker 1 season three yeah uh sorry we're a european and that's ready before sort of workshopping and you know and uh and all that and uh i've basically cast it in my head and that's ready to go we're filming in April, so I feel like I fill the gap.

Speaker 1 I can't do gigs at the moment again, that's ready to go. In fact, all my gigs this year have been postponed till next year, so I do that after I film.
So, that's ready to go.

Speaker 2 What about the jokes in that that might be topical that are not going to work next year? Are you just kind of updating?

Speaker 1 Well, luckily, when you're still doing stuff about you know Hitler and famine, uh-huh, AIDS, sure, it's pretty fucking timeless. Evergreens, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Good for you.

Speaker 1 We'll always

Speaker 1 Luckily, we'll always have killer diseases and fascism. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 how do you think that looks? So you're ready to go back on the road. You've been working on your stand-up

Speaker 1 sort of non-stop and refining it. I will have to change it slightly.
I will have to. I think depending on what happens, because I think if a vaccine comes in,

Speaker 1 I think people will want to forget it. And so

Speaker 1 it wouldn't be timeless. And if I was doing it now, I'd start with it.
In fact, I did a couple of little warm-ups when we were doing social distance gigs, and I started off.

Speaker 1 I go, it's great to be gigging. I haven't, I haven't gigged this year.
The last normal time was Christmas, wasn't it?

Speaker 1 That was the last time with friends and family, and uh, we don't have we didn't have a traditional Christmas, you've got to move with the times, we multiply cultural.

Speaker 1 Um, we had bats, we ate a load of bats. Oh, you ate bats.
So, I started off and got it.

Speaker 1 We should talk,

Speaker 1 Ricky. Uh, who who makes you laugh? I know you get asked this a lot, it is like one one of those standard questions, but fuck it.
Who makes you laugh? Well, you do. You know that.
You do that.

Speaker 1 Well done, well. Present company excluded.
Present company. We got what we wanted.

Speaker 1 Print.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 you have to categorize it. You have to categorize.
I mean, who makes me laugh? I mean, I... Are there people who, the way that they Larry David? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think Larry David is underrated. I know he did the biggest sitcom of our generation, but I think Curb Enthusiasm, 10 series of Curb Enthusiasm, and

Speaker 1 the quality just hasn't changed.

Speaker 1 And he's remarkable, and he's brave, and he's funny, and he's a great performer. He's fearless.
You guys are very similar though.

Speaker 2 He's self-effacing, too.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I think he's the

Speaker 1 all-round comedic creator of the past 25 years.

Speaker 2 And Chris Guest, it sounds like Chris Guest you like a lot too, yeah?

Speaker 1 Chris Guest, probably the biggest single influence on me is both the sort of his style a friend and a mentor because i knew no one in the industry and um when the office uh went out chris guest called me he said his wife had seen it and said you've got to watch this and he loved it and i could see why he must have seen his influence in it um but he called me up and just said i don't want to say and i was blown away of course and then we became friends and then i'd call him when i wanted advice i remember

Speaker 1 an early film i did they wanted to do one of those screenings where 40 people give you notes and i said i I don't want to do it. And he said, Why would you?

Speaker 1 He said, If you're letting them edit it next time, why don't you write it with them? And I just thought that was such a lovely wow.

Speaker 1 And then he told me a story that the director of Rainman did one of those things.

Speaker 1 And his favorite comment was, I enjoyed the film, but I was disappointed that the little guy didn't snap out of it by the end.

Speaker 1 And so he'd given me

Speaker 1 those little nuggets to

Speaker 1 fear to fear TV by committee. And he's just lovely and he's still funny.
I remember he asked me once, he said, we'd just be mucking around like idiots, like kids. And he said,

Speaker 1 if we're suddenly not funny and no one finds us funny, how will we know? And I said, who cares? Yeah. Who cares? We're laughing.

Speaker 1 For sure.

Speaker 2 Now, Ricky, I have a semi-serious question here. I don't want you to cry when you answer it.

Speaker 2 But with all of the information we've heard about how you started and what you thought you were going to be and the music and whatnot, you're in your mid-50s. Have you exceeded your expectations?

Speaker 1 I fucking have.

Speaker 1 Of course I fucking have.

Speaker 2 Well, but I mean, I'm assuming there is a higher place. We always sort of reset our goals as we start to approach them, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Where are you at right now? Are you satisfied and yet still want more? Or have you hit, ah,

Speaker 2 I'm past where I ever wanted to be and

Speaker 2 I could get happy with retirement even and know that I've

Speaker 1 answered that, Ricky, just know how great it is to hear how Bateman's brain works. Go ahead.

Speaker 1 I think you

Speaker 1 hone it and hone it. You keep folding the samurai.
You keep honing it and what you like. And what I like is no interference and only doing things I absolutely love.

Speaker 1 So I want to do less and less less and just more of the thing that I absolutely love. And that's come down to, I suppose, if I'm doing sitcom, it's just doing the

Speaker 1 compromise, yeah. And stand-up is already there, really.
There's already no

Speaker 1 compromise with stand-up.

Speaker 1 I think stand-up is like just about the purest art form outside the novel where what you think is what you can say and it's what they hear. And that's pure.

Speaker 1 Because even with something like Afterlife, you know, I get final edit, I do it all, but there's still 60 people involved.

Speaker 1 You still have to go, they have to give it to someone, and they still have to go with put out on this day.

Speaker 1 You said, Whereas, stand-up, I say, I want to do this venue on this day, sell the tickets, the tickets are taught, I go up, I'm doing this, this is it, good night, and I did, and every single step of the way is absolutely as I wanted it.

Speaker 1 So, it's more and more, how do I get to that? And I've always known that the most important thing is being sort of happy, really. I've always tried to cut out the middle man, just wanted to be.

Speaker 1 I'll show you a story that sums it up. I think we're must have been like 1971.
I was like 10 in school. And

Speaker 1 there was a big thing in the early 70s where a lot of unskilled or semi-skilled workers were getting money to go on oil rigs. So you had carpenters that they were suddenly going to oil rigs.

Speaker 1 And where they were earning like 50 quid a week, they were earning like, you know, 500 quid a day on these oil rigs. And it was a big thing.
It was a big thing in the paper.

Speaker 1 And I remember the teacher doing a thing to the class saying, okay, kids, what would you do with the money if you could earn 500 pounds a day?

Speaker 1 And it went round and the kids were saying, I'd buy my mum a house, I'd buy a car, I'd buy a horse. And it came to me and I said, I'd work one day a week.
And I remember

Speaker 1 thinking,

Speaker 1 that would be amazing because I could have the other six days. Yeah,

Speaker 1 yeah. I'm with you, man.

Speaker 1 I really admire, first of all,

Speaker 1 you know, I'm a huge fan of of your stand-up. And I think it's so,

Speaker 1 I watch it in awe because I think it's so scary to,

Speaker 1 you know, I've never done it. It just seems like the scariest.
It's like you say, it is so raw. It's just you and your relationship with the audience and everything that's coming out.
And man.

Speaker 1 But it's, but it's, it's not, it, it's not scary. It's, it's that's the thing that you do it.
I think, I think driving a car is scary because I, because I can't do it.

Speaker 1 But when you realize that you've got that safety net for the first, you go out there and you try stuff out. And if it's not working, you don't put the tickets on sale.

Speaker 1 I've done 50 gigs before I sell out a real gig, and I know what it's going to be like.

Speaker 1 It's going to be the same as the, you know, I mean, the scary thing is, you know, recently the scary thing is, uh, you know, this council thing being canceled if you say the wrong thing and suddenly, you know, Netflix can take you off their platform or, you know.

Speaker 1 So that's the scary thing.

Speaker 2 How do you vet that then? How do you really go through your stuff and who's going to be the arbiter?

Speaker 1 Well, you can't. You can't because you don't know.
You could be the most woke politically correct stand-up in the world at the moment, but you don't know what it's going to be like in 10 years' time.

Speaker 1 You can get canceled for things you said 10 years ago because you don't know what it's going to be like in 10 years' time.

Speaker 1 And it also seems like the people that try to, you specifically, because I remember the Golden Globes were all of them. They're so fucking funny.

Speaker 1 But you were so great.

Speaker 1 But I remember the same people it seems that try to cancel you are also your fans, are also the people that hire you and also the people that still want to work with you the thing is about this i think the the misunderstanding about cancer culture is you know some people think that you should be able to say anything you want without consequences and that's not true because we're members of society and people are allowed to criticize you they're allowed to not buy your things they're allowed to burn your dvds and they're allowed to turn the telly off what they're not allowed to do is to bully other people into not going to see you or there's some people that are that are that are doctors who are great doctors they're getting fired from a hospital because of a bad joke they made on twitter and i'll go well that that's not relevant to what they do

Speaker 1 so um i don't think i don't think you what's being cancelled um it's having no platform isn't it and what can they do to me because i've got i've got this now who's going to cancel me twitter youtube if i have to i'll go to hyde park and stand up on a bench and shout shit so i got in a lot of shit they almost canceled me because because i've i i i killed a hobo and I said, that's nothing to do with my job.

Speaker 1 No. That's something that I did on a weekend.
Well, that's the other thing as well.

Speaker 1 If you don't break the law,

Speaker 1 people just cannot not buy your material. Whereas some people get cancelled because they've actually broken the law.
I talk about this in my new stand-up about

Speaker 1 what is being cancelled. And I suppose that's a scary thing because it's a real consequence.

Speaker 1 No one looks at the argument anymore. They look at who's saying it and they make their decision.
There's no nuance.

Speaker 1 And some of it's down to politics, some of it's down to social media because it's too fast. It's way too fast.

Speaker 1 As I say, 20 years ago, if you were offended by someone on television, you got a pen and paper, you went, dear BBC, oh, fuck, I can't be bothered.

Speaker 1 Now you fire off a tweet and that tweet goes on the fucking news because someone else argued with it. So it's this road rage.
It's things happening too fast that you can't take back.

Speaker 1 And people dig in and people want to be heard. People want to feel that they had an effect.
It's why people heckle a comedian. They want to feel they were there.
I was here.

Speaker 1 And so now people are heard.

Speaker 2 And the microphone is the same volume. Everybody has ample access to it.
Yes.

Speaker 1 An idiot stands next to a genius on Twitter and it looks the same. It's the same font and exactly, yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's what's so dangerous and the genius has earned it and the idiot hasn't and yet people don't they don't make that distinction at all anymore.

Speaker 1 Well exactly and it comes back to what we said at the beginning. Just because you're offended it doesn't mean you're right.

Speaker 1 And in recent years we've had this thing where people would say, My opinion is worth as much as the next person's, and that's true.

Speaker 1 But recently, we had my opinion is worth as much as your fact, and that's simply not true. Now, people are offended by facts.

Speaker 1 People now know that when I do happy birthday, Earth, 4.6 billion years old, I'm having a go at fundamentalists, and they know they go, Why

Speaker 1 because they take facts personally.

Speaker 1 People take facts personally. I could talk to you about all that stuff for like nine hours straight.
I love that. I loved everything.
Oh, man, I bet he's looking forward to that. Listen.

Speaker 1 And I mean straight. No interruptions, no sleep.
Ricky, what was that joke that you talked about?

Speaker 1 You said that sort of that idea of people being offended or online or on social media was the equivalent of running down to the town square. Oh, when people that, yeah,

Speaker 1 I do it in humanity when there's that woman's

Speaker 1 arguing with me, getting offended by a tweet. Like, I was tweeting them.
Like, I'm just tweeting. I don't know who's following me.

Speaker 1 That's like going into a town square and seeing a message that says guitar lessons. And you go, I don't fucking want guitar lessons.

Speaker 1 People,

Speaker 1 it wasn't to you. People jump in the way of a bullet and say, Why are you shouting at me?

Speaker 1 And people have done that on purpose. They've tried to give ideas a human rights.
That's why.

Speaker 1 So if you criticize Christianity, people say, Why are you criticizing Christians? And I go, I'm not. I'm criticizing the ideal.
I'm, you know, I'm discussing an idea.

Speaker 1 It's like me getting offended where someone hates maths. It's not mine.
Maths isn't mine.

Speaker 1 It's a concept. It's an idea.
So,

Speaker 1 but anyway,

Speaker 1 this is for our

Speaker 1 nine-hour podcast.

Speaker 1 Oh, man, that's going to be a real hit. I'll tell you what.

Speaker 1 Part two through 12.

Speaker 2 When are you coming to Los Angeles?

Speaker 2 Or Or when when can Will always get to see you, always gets to hang out with I want to and I won't bring Sean I see I do I do actually see um four people um when I'm in LA don't I

Speaker 1 can be small have a four and a half Will and Mitch we always invite you but you're always you're always having a body wax or something yeah you're hurry out here please or I'll come see you there don't make like you don't know me when I come back you'll never come to England I want to come what do you call it leafy where do you live Will's been here Will Will calls me up and goes I mean I'm around the corner.

Speaker 1 I go, what? He calls me up. He's here all the time, back and forth between Samaritz and

Speaker 2 hopping off yachts and shit.

Speaker 1 I never go to Samaritz. Only Gustav.
So, listen.

Speaker 1 I didn't even say it right. No, you didn't.
Well, listen, yeah,

Speaker 1 I do miss hanging out. And I do miss going over there.
I love spending time in the UK and I love spending time with you.

Speaker 2 All right. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 We love you. Goodbye, Ricky.
We love you.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much, man. Guys, and remember, well, you tell the other guys if anyone asks, is he in the SAS? No, he's just a comedian.
Right. Okay, got it.
All right.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Wait, play us off real quick with something with that. Grab that guitar.
Play us off with something. Just a quick, just a quick little

Speaker 1 single chord. Oh, we didn't have to twist his hunt.
Here we go. Here we go.

Speaker 1 Pretty girl on the hood of a cattle that year.

Speaker 1 She's broken down on freeway nine.

Speaker 1 I take a look and get her engine started.

Speaker 1 Leave a purring and a roll on by, bye-bye. Free love on the free love freeway.
Love is free. The freeway's long.
I got some hot love on the hot love highway.

Speaker 1 Going home because my baby's gone. She's gone.

Speaker 1 Ricky Gervais, everybody.

Speaker 1 Wow. That was awesome.
That's incredible, Ricky Gervais. Thank you, Ricky.
The beautiful mate. Ricky, you're gorgeous.
Hey, listen, it's getting late.

Speaker 1 You're going to have to get those prop awards back to the prop house. Okay, buddy.

Speaker 1 Whoa. Look at that.
IPA dead.

Speaker 1 Love you, Ricky. Bye, Paul.

Speaker 1 Thanks, buddy. Bye-bye.
Bye, Paul. Thank you.
Bye-bye, bye. Great fun.

Speaker 1 Oh, what a moment. How great was that? Well, I love that you guys knew him.
I've never met him. I'm such a good one.

Speaker 2 And I was serious about the influence he had over me, over the show, over,

Speaker 2 I just, I think he's it.

Speaker 1 Have you guys ever seen him debate religion with Stephen Colbert?

Speaker 2 No, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 I mean, I've seen him debate religion with lots of people. He does it online.
He does it in person. It's really interesting.

Speaker 2 Wait, does Colbert? Colbert is Catholic. And Ricky's saying.

Speaker 1 He's an atheist, yeah. Really? Yeah, it's really fascinating.
He's incredible. Anyway, I'm a huge fan of his.
I think he

Speaker 1 has a brilliant mind. He's an incredible guy.
He's so funny, and he's such a sweet,

Speaker 1 which is funny because, like, Jason, you were saying, you know, some of his characters, he can be very confident, even though he can be self-evasing, he can also be very confident.

Speaker 1 And he is confident. He's just a smart guy.
He's a very level-headed

Speaker 1 and sweet,

Speaker 1 sweet guy, and super smart, which is why it was good to have him on our show because he was able to help us. Yeah, I love that thing at the beginning when he's like, wow, are you guys just idiots?

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's called Smartless.
We go ahead and give you a big hint right at the top. I mean, the bar is low and

Speaker 1 it's advertised.

Speaker 2 I want to meet Jane. I want to hang out.

Speaker 1 Oh, man.

Speaker 2 I have met Jane, but I've met her, but I want to hang out with her.

Speaker 2 I'm fascinated to see what she's doing.

Speaker 1 We'll include you guys. I'll include you in the dinner.
Yes, please. I would love to see these times.

Speaker 1 The one thing he didn't say, though, as he was signing off, was.

Speaker 1 loss.

Speaker 1 Smart.

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