"Paul McCartney"

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from now until Easter on April 20th. Hello, listener.
This is Jason Bateman along with Will Arnett and Sean Hayes for the podcast called Smartless. If that's a place you're looking for, you found it.
Congratulations.

It's not a real high concept podcast. One person invites a guest, the other two don't know who that guest is, and then we chat.
Here we go. Smart.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart.

Smart. Smart.
smart smart smart smart smart smart Jason, do you have dogs? I don't remember. I have two dogs.
Both sort of cat size. So I'm not, I don't, I don't let them out that much.
So who does let the dogs out? Oh God. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Wait, let him answer the goddamn, this thing has been, this is a question.

I have a Brussels Griffon that's kind of like that dog. Sounds like a topping.

As good as it gets.

Verdell that goes down the trash chute that Jack Nicholson puts on.

His name is Woody.

And then there is a French bulldog named Hank.

And that's my dude.

And do you have any references sort of post-96? Or is that just you like to stay in that? No, I don't think. Oh, actually, yes.
The Brussels Griffon was featured in a commercial a year ago. I don't remember what it was.
Oh, like a Darth Vader type of thing. Oh, man, what a story.
You really know how to spin a... Wait, your actual dog or that type of dog?

No, no, no, that type of dog.

My dog.

You're not training your dog for film and TV right now.

No, but I'll bet you it's pretty lucrative.

You think?

I've never asked those animal trainers what they make,

but I'll bet it's not a little.

I made a kid's movie with a lot of dogs in it.

Natasha Leona and I did.

How do I say...

What's the name of it?

Thank you. I made a kid's movie with a lot of dogs in it.
Natasha Leona and I did. And how do I say that? What's the name of it? Show Dogs.
Show Dogs. Wait.
Oh, really? Did that find a theater or was it mostly on the television? We'll save that for another show. Go ahead, Sean.
I feel like we're cutting you off, Sean. Robin Bennett, are you leaving? Are you staying on? Yeah.
We're staying on because we want to snap check from our guest when they sit down in one minute. Oh, great.
Then we'll get the hell out of your way. Oh, I didn't know.
Okay. I don't mind looking at you two while we're doing this.
I prefer it. It's nice.
Thank you. Stand by for one second.
Surprise guest without saying anything verbally. If you could snap or clap for us if you're there.
Awesome. We are golden.
Wow, that's an extensive.

Big hands.

Guys, what a special episode this is.

Our guest today happens to have an album coming out December 18th.

I've listened to it over and over again.

I love every track on it.

I can't wait to talk about it.

The name of the album is McCartney 3.

What?

The name of the guy is Paul McCartney. Paul McCartney.
What? Look at that. Hello.
No. Hi, guys.
What? Wait a second. This is so cool for us.
He looks so much like Paul McCartney. He really does look like I told that all the time.
God, he sounds like him, too. Wait, Sean Hayes.
Yeah. I'm sorry.
Sir Paul McCartney, we'll get to you in one second. Sean, how did you do this? How did you make this happen? What the hell is going on? Well, I'm telling you, Paul and I, we were in a pub throwing him back because we're both off.
We're going to get the real story. Yeah, we're going to get the real story soon, yeah.
What an honor. Sean, keep quiet for a second.
Sir, what an honor.

I'm just so humbled that you said yes to this.

Well, I'm glad you're humbled.

Yes, sir.

I like people to be humbled and a little bit frightened.

I'm a little bit frightened.

It is a tremendous honor to have you here.

You probably don't remember, but we met briefly a couple of times, very briefly.

Not surprising.

Years ago.

On a yacht? Was it on a yacht?

No.

It was on a yacht, wasn't it?

I've met everyone briefly.

Exactly.

Paul, we're so flattered you're here today, and thank you.

It's really kind of surreal to be looking at you and talking to you because I've been a fan like the rest of the entire world forever but um there's a billion questions i want to ask you but where does one start with questions i know there's like a billion questions the one i've always wanted to ask you for a very very very long time and i'll just start right out how are you so fit how am i so fit um i don't think i am of of course. You look better than I did 20 years ago.

You look great.

You've always looked great.

This is a nice show.

I like you boys.

Do you work out every day?

You know what?

I do a little bit, yeah.

And I'm vegetarian, so maybe that's got something to do with it.

I don't know.

Vegetarian, you can get sneaky fat having a bunch of pasta and a bunch of, right?

That is true. That is true.
Yeah. Cheese is good.
Yeah. You say you do a little bit of workout.
What is that? Is that a cardio thing? Do you push weight? Yeah, just what do I do? I have a very definite routine. I don't have a trainer.
It's just me i get on on the mat and I do a bunch of stuff there, like leggy sort of. Yeah.
Write this down, Sean. No, I've got it.
I'm writing it down. Rolling on the thing on the river, you know, rolling on a roller.
Right. I do a bit of that.
And then I do a bit of legs akimbo. Yeah.
Sure. Sure.
And then I move on to a cross trainer elliptiptical. And then I do I mean, you know, I'm doing like, five or 10 minutes of these.
This is not a huge workout. But it's good.
I like it. And then I do a bit of running.
And then I end with my favorite bit, particularly if I'm in a gym, because sometimes it's like a home gym. But if I'm in a gym and all the big guys have got big weights and they're doing all the big stuff, at the end, I do a headstand.
And they come over to me. Yeah, that's pretty impressive, man.
Right. I go, well, thank you.
But it's just, it's nothing. I thought you were going to say, and I end with a birthday cake, which would be a fun.
I think this is going to be controversial. I think that Sir Paul McCartney, you and I should put out an exercise video together.
It would be very, because we could really. We could do that.
Yeah, that'd be great. I think that people would like that.
I would like it. I'd watch it.
You would watch it, Sean. I'd learn from it.
That would be, yeah, that'd be great i think that people would like that i would like it i'd watch it you would watch it sean i'll learn from it that would be yeah that would be entertaining he would he would spot you or you would spot him or would you just uh be snacking on stuff while he's doing it sounds like he's in better shape than i am so i think definitely i would be snacking not difficult um paul first of all where are you right now i'm in new york okay and you're in your place in New York. New York.
I'm actually in my office in New York. Okay.
Do you spend most of your time in New York? No, I'm between America and England, pretty much. Do you have a preference? Careful here.
England? Yeah. I don't care.
I'm English. Yeah.
But the thing is that I'm married to an American girl, Nancy. And so people say, you know, how much time do you spend in the countries? I used to say half and half, but now I say half and half.
Oh, nice. Well done.
That's sort of, that's what it is. I read that you spend most of your quarantine time, shocker, writing more music.
And to me, like, you know, I've never met you. I'm in awe of you, just like everybody else is.
And you think of like, I saw you say on Stephen Colbert once that you separate your fame from you, that you, that in your head, you're just, I just go work out and I'm nobody but then there's this famous person that you remove yourself from yeah right and that that you kind of like oh I kind of like that guy's music kind of interesting and it's you no it's true it is weird you know I think it's a it's a safety measure I think you know I know I'm very famous, but I don't want to walk around like I'm very famous. I like that bit that I had when I grew up.
Right. Of just going on a bus and just being, you know, there's one good thing about the virus is everyone's got masks.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
You know. Anyone with a famous face.
But no, I do separate him from me. Yeah.
So me, I don't like to take pictures when people say, can I have a picture? Because everyone's got a camera in the world. Yeah.
And so I say, I'm sorry, I don't do pictures. Yeah.
It's a line I got from watching Alec Baldwin once. We have this little thing with Lorne, Alec, and a couple of mates, and it's called the Yoga Boys, and we do yoga together.
And, like, we're terrible. I don't want to tangle with you guys.
Anyway, so, yeah, we're sitting around afterwards talking and we're having a bite to eat outdoors someone comes up to alex can i have your autograph support and he looks with that alec look he says i'm sorry i don't do pictures and he held it and i just thought that's the line yeah i'm sorry i sometimes feel like i have to say look you know i'm happy to talk to you. Sit down.
We can talk because I like that because I'm still me. The minute I put my arm around you, you put your arm around me.
I feel like the monkey in Saint-Tropez. Yeah.
Come and have your picture taken with the monkey, you know, and I don't like that. It puts me off.
I love that you talk about this so openly, this idea of you being this person that you are. And there's a sort of humility to that.
Do you attribute that to where you grew up in Liverpool and your family and those kind of ideas that you've had from a young age that you've never let go of in a way? Yeah, I think so. You know, I was very lucky with my family, uncles and aunties, cousins and all of that.
There were like millions of them. My dad had seven in his family.
My mom had two brothers. So anyway, the minute they all start reproducing, it produced a big, big family.
And it was great. They were so wonderful and wise and funny and optimistic I really don't remember anything bad about it so I grew up thinking that's how everyone's life is sure we're all we've all got lovely uncles and you know then when I met John it turned out not to be true he had a he had a.
His dad left home when he was three. His mother got run over and killed outside his aunt's place.
It's a terrible story. But, yeah, so I do attribute that to my family upbringing.
And it is something I want to hold on to. And that instinct to hold on to that connection, that real human quality that we are all sort of one.
And it seems like you've got a real sort of love of people. Do your level of fame and notoriety, does it sometimes sadden you that other people who are just meeting you for the first time might have trouble or difficulty connecting with you on that level? And do you then take it upon yourself to sort of try to put them at ease so that you can have that kind of, please see me as Paul and not as Paul McCartney.
Let's talk. Let's connect.
That's right. Yeah.
I do. I do that, you know.
Well, because I can't really sort of sit down and go, listen to this. Let it be.
You know, this. Right, right.
We can't do that. Well, you can.
I can, I suppose. But people are very interesting.
Yeah. People are really interesting.
And, you know, you ask them a question that you might think is quite boring,

but sometimes they've got quite amazing stories.

And I like that.

I was always very curious about that.

When I was a kid, I used to take a bus and just go for a few stops

and get off and sit on a bench and just watch people and talk to people in fact i got arrested for it once you did so jason a regular person is just so we can try to put it in context for jason thank you a regular person is somebody who did not grow up in show business right so they play golf oh boy this might take a minute but paul like on the subject of fame just because you you made me think of something have you found do you ever find yourself you especially measuring time and your life by certain milestones or events such as like the release of albums or concerts or whatever and then therefore does that make the past feel like it's not that far away yeah to some some extent, you know, I think so. Yeah.
So, you know, I know Sergeant Pepper was 1967, whereas most dates I don't remember, but I just happen to know what went on that year. And so, yeah, I would do that.
But I'm the world's worst rememberer of Beatle history.

I've got an experience.

Yeah, I think, well, there's always going to be someone who knows.

So I'll just ask someone.

What year was it when we came to America?

Oh, that was.

And where am I right now?

Yeah, but what's incredible about that is that you could quite, honestly,

you could ask anybody if you went to a restaurant, you could tap someone on the shoulder and they could probably tell you that date. And that's what's so incredible.
Like the size and the weight of that legacy, does it ever, I don't even know how to ask this question. Does it ever feel really heavy in that way? Does it feel like a burden? It doesn't, actually, because this phenomenon happened a long time ago.
It's like, you know, this isn't new for me. This is like, talk about the 60s even, this was going on.
But I just remember thinking, okay, now you're becoming very famous. So if you don't want the trappings of that, you should stop now and just say, thanks, guys.

I had enough.

But to do that, I would have kind of had to get out of music,

and I love that too much.

So I carried on, and so you get more and more famous, et cetera.

I do, however, sometimes just when I'm being me,

the person I grew up with, because this is still the same person, you know, it's still the same body. Yeah, yeah.
And you're the only one that's been there for all of it. All those steps you've gone through.
You know, but I do sometimes think, wow, God in heaven. I mean, bloody hell, I'm a singer-writer.
How did that happen? Yeah, it's crazy. But it makes sense because you started, I mean, I read somewhere that you wrote When I'm 64 well before you met John.
Is that true? Yeah, when I was 16. You were 16.
Writing about a 64-year-old. By the way, who was the 64-year-old you were writing about? Everyone were writing about everyone a year before their retirement yeah 65 was when you retired so 64 was everyone so you've been writing about you've been a singer songwriter your whole life not your whole career your whole life like even before you probably knew you were going to do it you've been this yeah well my dad dad was the family pianist.

So, you know,

I was reading about people like Gershwin and Harold Arlen,

and they said every house had a piano.

That was the way things

were those days. And my dad,

we had a piano, and he played it.

He played great. He played all the old

sort of shit, go,

he did all of that, you know.

Did you ever study classical music? Did he or you? I didn't, no. No, neither of us did.
And I'd say, ask him to teach me. He'd say, no, you've got to learn properly.
But I didn't like the little smelly old lady. Yeah.
I mean. Well, he got a deal on her.
There was a more expensive teacher. He just, he...
Is that what it was? Yeah, I know he told them. Oh, no.
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So, Sir Paul, one more question about your emotional and mental health that seems so, so clear to me. Was it always that way in the sense that with all the incredible fortune and success and assumed happiness throughout your life, all these incredible stages up to and including today, do you feel that you are always in the right condition mentally, emotionally to appreciate all of that? It seems like you've, you seem like the kind of guy keeps, keeps your room clean upstairs so that you could appreciate the fame, money, all the complications that might come with

that. If you don't have your room tidy, it can be somewhat destructive.
And a lot of people don't handle that well. But it seems like you're an incredibly healthy man emotionally, spiritually, mentally.
Have you been able to enjoy all this incredible life you seem to have had? Yeah, I think, you know, by and large.

And I tell you, this had? Yeah, I think, you know, by and large.

And I tell you, this family of mine,

I really do attribute it to them.

Uncle Jack, all right, son.

Yeah, son, you know, come on.

Have you heard the one about son?

Uncle Joe, singing all the time.

You know, there's just so many of these characters

and they'd all just come out of World War II. You know, I was born in 1942.
It actually was in that war. And they all come out of it and they were all so lovely and positive that I always just thought, well, that's the way you should be.
So, you know, that's my kind of guiding thought is that, hey, you know, it's okay, really. We get shitty moments, but basically it's okay.
The future is going to be good. You know, it's not always easy to think that, particularly these days.
But, you know, COVID, you know, I was talking to someone about this the other day and saying it is like the war for my parents. Well, my parents go and have me in a war.
When Hitler's raining bombs on Liverpool, they couldn't have been too optimistic that they were going to win.

Right.

You know, because it wasn't.

But, yeah, I just think this is another war.

This is something, instead of like HIV or SARS or avian flu,

that tended to happen to other people.

Right.

We are all going through this one together,

which equates, in my mind, to war.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I would say that, you know, this idea that you've made it this far and kept it, as Jason said, so straight upstairs and you attribute it to your family. I think that we can relate to that.
The three of us have very close relationships to our families as well. It's something that we, I think that we share.
And in this time, in this COVID time, I agree with you. This is now more than ever, we really need each other.
Not just our families, but our friends. It's so important because it can be so isolating.
Yeah. And that can be devastating.
And to keep the positivity going during quarantine and isolation is is you know is rough but you know creative types find a way and you found a way just like the rest of us we're doing a podcast you're wrote an album like normal people do i guess i don't know but to you i mean you've written over a thousand it has to be over a thousand songs probably more Do you even know how many you've written? I don't count. No, it's like, I don't know what year it was or how many there were.
I've been told that I wrote just short of 300 with John. Wow.
Wow. That's crazy.
That's just shy of my 400. But do you ever get out on stage and start performing? Wait a minute.
What? You've done 400? 400, yeah. With John.
With John. Which John? Different John.
Different John. John down the street.
Yeah, different John. So do you ever get out on stage and start performing one of your thousand songs and they get lost because you're thinking of the other 900? I mean, like lyrics ever get crossed or whatever oh yeah yeah i i do happens quite a lot that's why i have a teleprompter oh well you can probably just ask the audience to help you with a line yeah that's right no i i do that kind of thing you know it uh sometimes i don't know you you guys when you're performing i don't know if it happens to you but but I'll be kind of doing a song, let's say like Eleanor Rigby or something, and I'm on autopilot and I'm starting to think, oh, what am I going to have for dinner later? Oh, yeah.
Okay, well, it's all right. Maybe you won't have the soup, but maybe you'll just go for the main course.
And I go, stop! Yeah. Because I'm singing Nella Newbury.
You know, I've separated myself. Yes.
Not only from Paul and Famous, from a couple of bits of my head are going in different places. And, yeah, so sometimes that breaks down and I forget the song.
Yeah. I remember the soup.
I do totally. I did Broadway a few times and when you do eight shows a week for a year,

you completely check out in the middle.

One time I checked out,

right in the middle,

Tony Goldwyn was on stage.

He's a great actor.

And I turned to him and I go,

out of nowhere, I just go,

what was I, what am I saying?

I completely checked out.

What's my mind?

Yeah.

But those thousand songs, like do you, and I kind of of ask i'm the one who kind of asked a lot of guests this question which is like do you still have that fire in your belly to keep writing and keep creating these great iconic songs that just seem endless inside of you or do you feel pressure to to keep doing that? No, it's like a hobby.

It really is.

I'm very lucky.

So, you know, I'll go home and pick up my guitar

while I'm watching TV and just tinkle around

and just do something, you know.

It really is something that still entrances me.

That's what I was saying before. I'm a singer-songwriter.
I'm seriously amazed by that. Yeah.
So, yeah, you know, I will. Maybe I'm amazed.
I don't know. Maybe I'm immune.
Did you see the James Corden? Maybe I'm immune. Yeah, yes, yes.
Yeah, what did you think of that? Okay, I love that. I love James.
He's a good singer. He's a great singer, isn't he? Yeah, really great singer.
He sings it better than me. I rang him up.
I said, James, I said, listen, that's great. I said, I'd be so jealous if I hadn't written it.
Yeah. Did you do something with James, or am I misremembering, where you went to Liverpool? Yeah, no, we did.
Yeah, the Carpool karaoke. Yeah, Carpool.
Yes, that was like a big moment, right? You went back there and everybody kind of flooded in. And I loved when you actually signed the Penny Lane sign.
Penny Lane sign, yeah. You just went up and signed it.
Well, you know, the worst thing about all of that was I didn't want to do it because they'd said, you know, it'd be great, James wants you to do carpool and stuff. And I just thought, no, no done it stevie wonder's done it it was so good i'm gonna go and do it and be crap so i just sort of said no guys listen thanks but i i don't think i'll do it and right up till the minute when we got in the car i was still bitching which isn't like me but i was still sort.
In fact, I said to James when I was sticking a bit of makeup on, and I said, James, you know, one of the great things about being in the Beatles was at this kind of moment, George would probably, you know, look at everyone and go, what the fuck are we doing this for? And I said, I miss that. And his his producer ben was very funny he said that's funny that's funny get in the car and so we got in but uh you know i really enjoyed it it was great and i'd never been in my old house since i left by the way who was that woman in there in the house oh you know that woman she's? In the house? Oh, you know that woman? She's the keeper of the house.
Oh, she is? Not a housekeeper. It's a national trust thing.
So it's like a museum. Oh, wow.
She's like the museum curator. Must have blown her mind to meet you.
Well, I think it pretty much did. But the thing was, she charged us.
It's true. Me and James were just leaving, and she said, well, that's five pounds each.
I said, no, this is my house. Yeah, you get out.
No, and then the whole thing ended with you in that bar surprising everybody in the pub, and the curtains open, and everybody's like,

holy shit, that's Paul McCartney.

And then you just started playing,

and everybody was like floored.

What an incredible treat for everybody there.

That was incredible.

That was great.

I mean, I say it was great for us too, you know.

Because, I mean, that pub we were in where we did that stunt is one I've stood with my family, with these uncles, with a pint, and I had all that history with it. So it was pretty amazing just wandering around Liverpool because I was now the tour guide.
We did this here. We did it.
But I do that anyway. When I go back to Liverpool, I do that anyway, whether I like it or not.
You take them around and... I take them past this old house I used to live in, but I never used to go in because I used to think it's going to be so disappointing.
It's going to be scary or something. I don't just leave it.
Don't go in. That's easy.
So I would sit outside the house with my guest, whoever it was. There's the house there.
See that little window? Well, that was my bedroom. And this is the way you get through the back.
And some old guy comes walking up and he looks at me and goes, yeah, he did used to live there. Like he was sick of it, like he'd seen it a million times.
Oh, yeah, he did used to live there. Yeah, he did.
You know what? It reminds me, you're obviously so so iconic and so many people have done impressions of you over the years and our collectively our good friend peter serafinowich yeah uh who's who's from liverpool originally has has done an impression of you for years he's a very funny guy he lives in london now a very funny comedian first of all what is that like throughout for the last years and years and years people have done impressions of you. Is it annoying, A? And B, who, was there anyone who did it, you went like, yeah, that was pretty good.
Was there one that stuck out? It's not annoying because, you know, they're talking about me and that's okay. So that's not annoying.
You know, that's good. But I don't think they quite get it.
What are they missing? Well, Americans have got this sort of, oh, hello. Yeah, hello.
Hey, how you doing? Jimmy Fallon's pretty good. Oh, yeah? Yeah.
He does a pretty good one. But generally, it's not quite, you know.
But my voice has changed. I look at old interviews with the Beatles.
I went much more in Liverpool, you know. It was very much, you know, all right, yeah.
But now I've lived out of Liverpool much more than I ever lived in Liverpool. So your voice changes, you know.
So, Paul, I have a quick question about touring. Jason and I are more homebodies.
I think it's safe to say, and Will's kind of probably the more adventure seeker traveler. Wouldn't you guys say that's true? I'm definitely a homebody.
I don't know how much he adventures or seeks. For purposes of this question, I'll roll with it.
Yeah, go ahead. I mean, I toured with Kenny Rogers and wanted off the bus after the third city.
Here we go. So, but when you've toured.
Don't ask him what it was, Paul. Do not ask him.
I played an elf. It was humiliating.
Here it comes. So when you toured as much as you have for as long as you have, do you ever miss that kind of home-based feeling? Like, do you ever get...
Because it was tough out there, right, Sean? Yeah, well, God, it was so hard. You got to take off the elf suit after every show.
The elf on the bus with Kenny, and he was such a nice guy. As it was like for you too, Paul.
We can relate, right? Yeah. But do you ever get depressed living out of hotels and never feeling settled and all that, like constantly touring all these years? I'm actually not too bad with that.
I know what you mean. A lot of people don't like that.
I actually quite like it because I've been doing it forever. And instead of me making me jaded, it's just something I do and I'm kind of used to.

I like the room service.

I was walking down the corridor in the Four Seasons in L.A.

and I got this feeling like, I like this.

I like this.

What do you do about getting to sleep with all the different time zones?

Do you have a trick for adapting to different times?

Drugs. Yeah.
Nice. We got it.
No, no, no. Come on.
I'm really kidding. No, actually, I'm very lucky in that respect.
I just get tired during the day. And I'll meet people, you know, in the evening.
They say, God, I'm really tired. I say, great.
Keep it up and go to bed. You know, I love that.
yeah no i get tired especially after the show and we do have to have a sort of warm down yeah period jason's been doing a warm down since he was 30 yeah that's but wait what about your ears what about touring with all that loud music just constantly over the decades in your like has it done anything exactly. What did you say? No, that's the only problem.
It does go for your hearing, unfortunately. But I love it.
I love it. When I was a kid in Liverpool, the idea of taking an electric guitar and plugging it in was like, bang, bang, bang, bang.
It was kind of thrilling, you know. And I still get that thrill and I'm surprised because I should be jaded.

It should have worn off, but it doesn't, you know, I love it.

I go in my studio making this album you're talking about and I plug in the

guitar and I'm still trying to learn how to play it.

Although I have, I'm getting better. How many weeks a year would you ideally be on the road nowadays? This year, I was supposed to be doing about 12 gigs in Europe and then Glastonbury Festival.
So I was kind of looking forward to that. And I suppose I then would have gone out this time, possibly somewhere with better weather.

So, you know, you go down to South America or somewhere. And I quite like it.
So like a third of the year, half of the year on average? Yeah, maybe a quarter or something. It would be quite good.
But there's certain periods when I want to be home. But, you know, I've been doing it long enough to be able to say to my promoter, Okay, end of April, first couple of weeks in May, got to be home but you know i've been doing it long enough to be able to say to my promoter okay end of april first couple of weeks in may gotta be in england because that's when the blue bells come out yeah and there's there's nothing like it you know what about the holidays you like to be home around the holidays or uh or just spring is the part that you really protect no i like to christmas we're always home're always home.
Yeah. Love to do that.
Thanksgiving, now that I've married an American, we do that. What's the family look like nowadays? How wide is it? How many? What's the family gathering usually number out to nowadays? It would be, I've got eight grandkids.
Wow, that's great. Yeah, you believe that? That's amazing.
That's so bad. Yeah, so hopefully it'll be with them, their moms and husbands, the rest of my kids, and my wife.
Yeah. Do you enjoy providing that kind of sane guidance that you got from your family when you were a young kid? I mean, nowadays I would imagine it's almost more complicated than it was back then given technology and culture and all that stuff.
Do you like playing that role, passing on that sanity? Yeah, I kind of do, yeah, but it's not super proactive. I leave that to their parents because you get the granddad interrupting.
We got it, dad. It's okay.
Leave this to us. And I know that's my cue.
Maybe you could call my mother and tell her that. That would be a great message for her to receive.
To let me parent my kids. Mom, if you're listening, butt out.
Yes, thank you. By the way, that's going to be on a loop from Will.
That's going to be on Will's phone. Sir Paul, let me take you back to you grabbing the— You're being very reverential, Jason.
Well, you're supposed to say sir, aren't you? You don't have to. Okay, all right.
Emperor. Boy, he dropped that pretty quick.
Let's go back to you grabbing the guitar.

You're watching television and you're starting to figure out a new song or something like that, or new lyrics. Do you have someone or some group in mind when you write a song? And if so, does that change? Or are you writing for you most of the time? Well, I'm writing for me, but you're right.
I often have someone in my mind who i'm kind of imitating whose style i'm imitating oh and it's a great trick because it never turns out like them yeah you do your version of it yeah i could be doing big bill brunzi right and it's nothing like him believe me you know on this album i've got a track that was inspired but i was reading a book on uh big pill brunzi and uh yeah and i'd started noodling on the piano it's high going my mama i'm going but i'm all bluesy i'm sound just like him but i didn't well yeah i do use that as a trick. I like to do that.
When I was writing Long and Winding Road, I thought I was Ray Charles. Wow.
But I wasn't. Wow.
Turns out. But he later recorded some songs of mine, and he was Ray Charles.
Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, you know, that's like magic. That must have been a thrill in a way, yeah? Yeah, man, you know, yeah.
I mean, because, you know, we grew up with these guys and, like, were totally in awe. A record, like, what did I say? You know, it was one of Ray's first things.
Yeah, you know, I used to do that in Hamburg. That was one of our big numbers tell what i say what i say and then i would you know you get the whoa i would end up under the table purposely showbiz did you guys ever have the you you went to hamburg of course and and that's that was kind of step before.
You'd already had some success in Liverpool, of course. Then you went to Hamburg and that's a very, you know, people know that story.
And then right after that, you really broke on the international stage and became the Beatles that we know today. Was there a moment, once you looked back sort of in that next year, after you'd really broken through, did you have a moment or many moments where you guys looked at each other and said, wow, can you fucking believe what's going on? You know, do you remember that? Yeah, I think most of it, you know.
Because we'd been completely anonymous. Then we went to Hamburg where we were still anonymous.
But we kind of learned how to build a crowd. We were stuck in this bar called the Indra, which is German for India.
And nobody ever came in there. And so we were just on the stage singing, you know, and then you'd see a couple of students would look in and the main thing, they'd look at the beer price and then they'd leave

because they thought it was too expensive.

So we had to learn to pull them in.

And it was a great lesson.

So, you know, we'd see the students would go, yeah, okay,

we're going to dance in the street tonight.

Come on.

Hey, dance in the street tonight.

Everybody.

I love that. Two of them, you know, we learned that we learned and gradually, I must say, boasting that place filled up, man.
Yeah. And the word of mouth got around that we were quite a good little group.
And you know, man, this is going back so far. And we used to say to each other, do you know how long ago it was, the war? It was like 15 years ago.
And we're over there, like, playing. We had to occasionally kind of go, yeah, but we won.
Right. Yeah, yeah.
It's all right. Yeah, I didn't mind.
Exactly. But it was great, you know.
And we play Germany now and amazed at the kids, how cool they are, you know. But yeah, then we would be interrupted at 10 o'clock and policemen would come on the stage.
And we'd go, what, what, what? Thinking we're being arrested. So, you know, they'd go to the mic.
It's now, at 22 o'clock. We're doing a if you haven't got your passport with you and you're under 18, get out.
Wow. So it was kind of, it was a different world.
Wow, man. We were kids.
We were like, you know, 18. So that was real German.
You learned German back then and you've remembered it? I know a bit of German. Yeah, I screwed it up there, but I do know a bit of German.
It sounded convincing to me. Yeah, we were none the wiser.
I learned it in school. Me and George were the only two who learned it in school.
Yeah. Is there an artist, an art figure, either alive or maybe even dead before you were even born, that you are so sort of in awe of, humbled by, enamored by, that...
Present company excluded, obviously. Excluded.
That you assume or hope, perhaps, would have the same effect over you that you assume you have over others. If that makes any sense,

you know,

Elvis.

Yeah.

I love Elvis.

And he really was huge for us.

And we ended up meeting him,

which is,

you know,

that's a zany moment.

Cause I do have to kind of think,

did I really meet him?

Yeah,

you did.

Yeah.

I really met Elvis. And was he cool yeah he was really cool and he lived up to all our expectations you know um were you guys at a level of fame where he was sort of talking to you as a peer as a colleague or or were you guys still just coming up at that point he was hey kids we were the kids on the block who were going to wipe him off the block.

Yeah.

Which was kind of very embarrassing

because we didn't want to do that.

We loved him so much.

So he would be the one.

Dylan, I love Bob Dylan.

I love him, you know.

What about today?

Like, there's so many pop acts these days,

you know, with an emphasis on the package

rather than the quality of the music

and the musicianship. Yeah.
Almost kind of trying to manufacture what the Beatles, you know, were authentically. So do you listen to anybody today? Is there an actual artist or like a boy band or group that you listen to because of that true artistry? Yeah, I mean, you know, for me, it's not really because of the music like it is for the fans.
For me, it's like, yeah, just seeing some young kids go through what we went through. BTS, Korean guys.
Yeah, you know, I like watching them, seeing what's going on. I think they're good, you know.
Like I said, I couldn't sing one of their songs, but I like that. And there are some people, though, who are not just manufactured, like Taylor Swift.
She's a true singer-songwriter. She's pretty cool.
She's the real deal. I met up with her recently.
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I have a question about songwriting. It if I can, like, geek out for a second about music.

Did you ever study music theory, by the way?

No.

Wow.

And this is the whole thing about, just before you question,

it's the whole thing about all the groups out of Liverpool,

not one of them, unless you were a sax player,

and then you had to learn a bit of music.

But none of us knew anything.

You know, all the guys in the groups, I was talking to Jeff Lynn lynn about it they said we just made it all up didn't we right right and that's what it was we just you know taught each other chords and made it up so no no none of us studied yeah sean they didn't they didn't need to go to school sean like some music nerd they had it in them yeah i was a music nerd you can't manufacture it from a book you know what i'm gonna get i'm gonna ask for my money back then my college no um then maybe you're not even aware you do this but i'm like hyper aware that about tempo and time signatures and phrasing like some of your most iconic melodies well for example like like i love you it's like very strict it's like i two three four love you you know it's very straightforward it's on the beat nothing syncopated at all or anything but then like one of my all-time favorite songs in the history of the world is no more lonely nights and you do like two beats a measure then four beats a measure then two beats two beats, and then four beats, and then you keep four beats. Like it's crazy brilliant and bizarre at the same time.
It's like in the world of Broadway, it's Sondheim. You know what I mean? Like if the phrase is, and if it takes a couple years to turn your tears to laughter, and if it takes a couple of years, it's four beats to turn your tears to.
And that's two. Laughter is four beats again, which is so bizarre.
So are you doing this consciously or are you doing... No.
I just wasted everyone's time explaining that. I love that you've analyzed it that much.
No idea what you're talking about. It just sounded good to you and so you kept it going that way, right? Yeah, that's my question.
Like, do you write the... That's the greatest answer I could have hoped for.
This is one of the greatest moments of my life. You write the melodies and the lyrics, and then you just, whatever, without thinking, and then you build the foundation underneath it.
Yeah, I mean, there's no theory behind it at all. We'll cut all that out.
And so... cut all that out and so no no no we're gonna replay it on a loop and sometimes it's music first and lyric second and vice versa yeah a set way that you you went about things or no yeah i mean the the best is when you get the two together and you just discovered your melody and you got some words and you just follow that trail and you just carry on with that thought and then you subvert it maybe for the middle or whatever i mean i've got tricks but they're not musically notated i wouldn't know about that but um i know we were good at it yeah it's nobody was doing it you would have like

crazy like the song would just change like in bohemian rhapsody by queen like it had sections

you guys invented that yeah no it's a great thing and i think you know very proud that knowing

nothing other than all the music yeah i mean i have got a little bit of a theory but i never

want to put people off who learn like you obviously i think. I think that is great, too.
It's not as great, but yeah. It's not quite as great, no.
No. He's just said it's not as great.
Because I'm asking you the question. There's no question, Sean.
You don't need to ask him. He's already said it's not as great.
No, but, you know, the thing is, when you're just thinking it instead of reading it, there's something very good about that. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
It's just in you. Yeah.
And you're not taking it off a page. It just feels like, yeah, this is good.
This sounds okay. Right.
And so you just sort of keep going. Yeah.

Until you've got it.

And then you try and remember it.

You say that writing music,

you sort of consider it somewhat of a hobby.

Aside from that, what is your current hobby?

Do you fill your day doing anything

that people would be surprised to learn?

Any sort of gardening or golf?

Or driving fast and breaking laws? Horse riding. Really? Yeah.
Yeah? I like to horse ride. You can go deep on that, right? The sneaky, specific, subtle artistry to all of that.
Yeah? Yeah, I love it, yeah. And again, I never had a lesson.
Linda was a very good horse rider. And so when we married, she'd never had her own horse.
So I was able to get her own horse. And, you know, so she just would show me and I would fall off a lot.
Yeah. But I was younger then.
I'd still fall off, but just a bit. But, yeah, so I just developed a love of it.

And, you know, kind of things she'd say to kind of help me with it would be,

it's just a great big puppy

that allows you to sit on its back.

Once you think of a horse like that,

it's much better.

Right.

Speaking of better things,

McCartney 3, you say 3, right?

3, yeah. Yeah, that's your new album and I listen to every track way more than once.
I absolutely love it. Some of my favorite, I love all of them, but some of my favorite tracks are Seize the Day, The Kiss of Venus, and Winter Bird is probably my favorite one.
Oh, thank you. You know, it's super somber.
It kind of reminds me of, you know, older Paul McCartney songs, but it's just beautiful. And I can't believe you just spit these songs out like it's nothing during quarantine.
It's crazy. You had a bunch of these songs.
I heard you say that you, correct me if I'm wrong, that you had been working on them for a while or they'd been kind of in your head for a while. Yeah, is that right? Yeah.
I've got a studio 20 minutes away from where I live, so I like to drive over and go to work. Some people have a studio at home, but I'm not that keen on that because you never go to work or never come home.
I'm in my studio at home right now. Are you? Yeah.
Music studio? No, no, no, a voice studio. Oh, yeah.
Right. Well, that makes sense.
So, yeah, I go to the studio. And some days I'll just say, okay, let's make something up.
And that freedom is very nice. So I'll make something up.
And then sometimes they don't get finished by the end of the day. And then maybe the next day I got to do something else so there were a couple of tracks like that and there were a couple of tracks that I'd written fully so I finished the ones that were unfinished and then started and finished the next one and just went through them all just thinking well this is good you know this is like spring cleaning you know this is nice i've got got them all and they're all going to be finished now that'll be nice but like after about 10 of them i'd finished and i thought this is probably an album and uh and it was it was cartney three i love it i absolutely love that one and just to remind you guys the album comes comes out December 18th and it's called McCartney 3.
I'm going to let you go because we've taken way too much of your time. No.
No, I want to stay. Come over.
But wait, I want to know if you had to pick your favorite song you've ever written. Oh, boy.
That's tough. That's always a very difficult question.
Yeah question yeah and i always answer yesterday but it's a very difficult question because in the next minute i'll go long and my new road and then actually the other one i answer here there and everywhere yeah i'll save that a blackbird you know i love blackbird it kind of it changes and, really, I often say to people, look, I can't choose

because it's like choosing one of my babies.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You write a lot of songs with the word bird in them.

Yeah.

Yeah, Blackbird.

Yeah, I do.

Winterbird.

I do a lot of bird stuff.

I'm an ornithologist.

Which is your favorite child?

This is a good question.

This is a good question.

That's easy.

That's easy.

We're going to hold you to it. Just us.
That is a sore point in the family. As one of them keeps saying, I'm the golden child, right? I say, well, no, it's very difficult.
I love you. You know, it just occurs to me as you sort of start to list off all your songs, and it reminds me of, I think everybody has very vivid memories of the first time they heard a Beatles song and who it was who introduced them to your music.
And I remember it was old tapes that my parents had. And I remember my parents playing the Beatles for me the first time.
And just those, when I think about it, and sometimes when I listen to a Beatles song, it reminds me of memories of my parents. Here we go.
Of those great times. Here come the waterworks.
I'm going to try to cry. I cannot cry on cue.
He tries so hard. That's why you do voiceovers.
That's why I do voiceovers. And Ricky Gervais always says, he said to me recently, he said, he says, I don't know why you bother working out nobody ever sees you but um and he's not wrong but but this connection your music the connection and and how it connects us to the people who are important of our in our lives and and i realize how much that is i'm one of billions of people who have had that experience.
It's what an incredible, I don't know. I don't even know how to describe it.
What an incredible thing to be part of people's emotional connections to the people in their lives. Almost a part of us as a human being.
I guess it's not even a question. It's more of a thank you and how incredibly profound that is.
It is something

I really appreciate

because, you know, being a family man,

I'll see that in my audience.

I remember doing a thing in South

America, a big audience, but near

the front, there was this very

good-looking man with

a beard, dark-haired man,

and he had his arm around

this beautiful girl, long, dark hair, and I was doing Let It Be, which, you know, is kind of emotional for me because it was to do with my mother and stuff. And I just see her looking up at her dad, and it was like, oh, my God.
It choked me. It was difficult to get through the song because there's suddenly the significance of that, that my little song that I never even studied for, you know, has just come out of the blue.
And, my God, it's had this effect. And they're having this really bonding moment.
So it is something I'm very proud of and appreciate, you know, that that happens with people. I do have to pinch myself, though, because it's like, are you really that guy who does that? Because, you know, I'm so busy trying to keep myself separate from him so I can be normal.
You are, and you have uh you have shared that part of you with uh with us for this hour thank you and our listener for that and and and all the music through your life uh with all the millions and millions of people that that have found connection with it so i just can't thank you enough for all of that uh i'm truly truly humbled to have spent this time with with you. Thank you very, very much.
Same, same, same. Thank you so much.
Well, thanks, guys. I mean, I've really enjoyed this.
You know, this is a fun hour for me. Good.
So thanks very much for the compliments. Yes, we love you.
Yeah, truly. Truly.
Thank you very, very much for doing this. Have a great rest of the day.
Cheers, thanks. My God, Sean.
Wow. How about that? Can I just say one of my favorite things was watching Jason at the beginning, and he was so calm, and he had so much stuff that he wanted to do and stuff that he was talking about.
And then when you revealed this Paul McCartney, just the contrast between the two Jasons. He talks about the two Pauls.
The contrast when he's like, two balls the contrast when he's like holy fuck i'd like to think there's like four or five james me too by the way but i thought for sure you were kidding i mean who would you ladies and gentlemen uh paul mccartney's like well yeah like who did you book right isn't that crazy and then he revealed that actually there. I've just, one day you'll tell me how this all came together.
Well, how about the fact that we got to, kind of like what Will was saying at the end, which is, you know, there are no words. Like, you know, everybody puts him on a pedestal, and rightfully so, but how about we in our lifetime got to speak to him? Yeah.
Not a lot of people get that time, you know? And not just meet him and get the picture that you could show, like, which he doesn't do, but the idea that we got to talk to him and, you know, and ask questions and have him give really thoughtful answers. Yeah.
That'll be one of these things that you'll be able to tell your grandkids. Yeah.
And for all of us that were listening to this, I just find it really just amazing that we're able to get a perspective from somebody in such a rarefied space.

I'm not saying he's any better or worse than anybody else listening to this, but the unique experience that he's had in his life. I mean, he's better.
I'm sorry. He's better.
I'm sure there's a gazillion things that we could have and should have asked him, but I'm glad that we got at least a window into, you know, what his human perspective is behind sort of the celebrity sort of veneer that we all assume that he's wrapped in. Yeah.
I mean, and isn't it wild that somehow every human on the planet, it feels like we come out of our mother's wombs born knowing all the lyrics to all the songs like I can't explain how I know all the words I just do and I know all the songs I said it was a cassette I think it was an 8 track that my mom had in her old car yeah I had an 8 track of a Wings album yeah just like So when you think about it, I can remember what those covers look like. I can remember that feeling of being in that room or in the car or being with my parents and what that relationship was.
It's all associated with that, with the Beatles. And when you hear it, anytime you hear that song sensorially, you get that same.
And how long do you think it takes after talking about somebody so iconic to switch your brain back to looking at us two idiots? For me? Yeah. I just.
Or me looking at you two idiots. I just love that he, when he said that he doesn't know what you're talking about.
That was a Bateman question, by the way. That was a Bateman question.
It was a Bateman question, and then he answered it with, I don't know what you're talking about. It's usually what I get.
But I got to tell you, was it, are you like me in that you're incredibly comforted by sort of this confirmation, because I kind of heard this or maybe even seen this from his other interviews, but the confirmation that he's so human, that there's this person that has been through what he has been through, accomplished what he has accomplished. But at the end of the day, he seems most proud of, most intent on, spends most of his time each day being just Paul.
And that's really important to him. And without that, he probably wouldn't be able to appreciate all the things that he's

been through to the extent that he has.

Of course.

And maybe you can use that.

Like, I don't know.

I don't know.

I'm asking both of you, but maybe Jason, for example, you could use that as a way to becoming

a normal person.

Do you think that's possible?

Hurtful landing to that plane.

I saw it coming.

By the way, I'd be remiss if I didn't say bye. Bye.
I can always feel it coming. Smart.
Less. Smart.
Less. Hey friends, Jason in here.
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