"Gustavo Dudamel"

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Speaker 2 Hello, welcome to Smartlist. I am Jason Bateman, one of the less smart hosts.
Even less smart is Will Arnett and truly dumb is Sean Hayes.

Speaker 2 We each have invited, well, one of us invites a guest per week. The other two don't know who that person is.
Some of it's going to be funny.

Speaker 2 Hopefully you won't cry and hopefully you learn a little something. So let's get started.
Smart

Speaker 2 Liz.

Speaker 2 Smart

Speaker 2 Liz.

Speaker 2 Smart.

Speaker 1 Hey, fellas. Hey, guys.
What's going on? Great to see you guys.

Speaker 2 It's great to see you, too. Did you work out this morning? You look like you've shed a little water weight.

Speaker 1 Okay, you know what? Actually, I have. And yesterday, Sean,

Speaker 1 Jason and I were hanging out, and he made a comment that somehow I look like I'm holding water.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 do I look like I'm holding water? Be honest. No.
Will, you look great.

Speaker 2 You're the father of four.

Speaker 1 Three and a half.

Speaker 1 Seven kids. Three and a half kids.

Speaker 2 Wait, who owns the other half?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was going to say this the other day. You said something, I forget what show show it was, but one of our shows, you said, you've got like 17.

Speaker 1 Have you ever noticed anytime people make up a number that they're trying to say, like, you've got 17 kids, people always say 17? Yeah. Have you ever noticed that? Yes.

Speaker 1 And I notice it because 17 is actually my lucky number, and Jason knows this for a while.

Speaker 2 Speaking of 17, this guy, now, you know,

Speaker 2 Will has

Speaker 2 custom-made golf balls to put the number 17 on his golf ball. Why is 17? Because he's a Wendell Clark fan.

Speaker 1 Greatest hockey player.

Speaker 2 So when this guy, remember, low score is, when you're playing golf, you want to not swing, you know, so many times. Low score wins.

Speaker 2 He looks down at the ball before every swing and he's looking at a 17.

Speaker 1 That's my number.

Speaker 2 This is why, this is why you're a terrible golfer. Put a one down there.

Speaker 1 I will say, I grew up and I love, I love Wendell Clark, but of course, Shani, our friend Shani, is also one of the all-time greats.

Speaker 1 I don't, because I feel like Shani sometimes feels like, wow, you really love Wendell, and there's not enough love.

Speaker 2 What was Shanahan's?

Speaker 1 Shanny was in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2 What was his number, though?

Speaker 1 Shanahan's 14. Oh,

Speaker 1 that's a better score than 17. Well, yeah.

Speaker 2 Save you three strokes on the next hole.

Speaker 1 Anyway,

Speaker 1 thank you. Thank you for, I guess this all comes back to thank you.
I do, I did work out this morning.

Speaker 1 Guys,

Speaker 1 here's what I love about our little show.

Speaker 1 In addition to bringing on friends and getting to know something about them that we don't already know, we get to bring on people we've always wanted to meet. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And for some reason, they say yes, and I don't know why.

Speaker 2 Are you segueing into the intro right now?

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is.

Speaker 1 This is one of the all-time great segues. Thank you.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It was subtle.

Speaker 1 And it started with guys. Yeah.
But I've always wanted to meet this guy. He was born in Barquisimeto, Venezuela.

Speaker 1 And he got his own star in the Hollywood Walk of Fame just last year for his advocacy of the arts. He is, now this is going to give it away, the artistic director of the LA Philharmonic.

Speaker 1 And besides receiving a billion awards for being the world's most awesome conductor, he conducted, get this, this is when I kind of perked up. He conducted the score for Star Wars, The Force Awakens.

Speaker 1 And he also conducted the upcoming Steven Spielberg adaptation of Westside Story. Happens to be my favorite musical.
And there's a million other things we're going to talk about.

Speaker 1 Please welcome the unbelievable Gustavo Dudemer. Wow.
Hello? I am absolutely for it. Hello.

Speaker 3 I was having such a fun here listening to you. My God.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 You know, Sean, I have to say, so, Gustavo, I hesitate even calling you by your first name. I feel like Gustavo.

Speaker 1 Only me. Miss.

Speaker 1 Mr.

Speaker 2 Dudamel.

Speaker 2 Sean, because Sean and I share a deep, deep love for classical music. And I have been fantasizing, like, God,

Speaker 2 if I could somehow book Gustavo Dudamel, it would blow Sean's mind.

Speaker 1 I can't believe you have Gustavo. It's okay.

Speaker 3 No, but it's such a pleasure to be with you.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much for joining us. Who named you Gustavo? Like, which one of your parents are like, I know, Gustavo.

Speaker 3 It's because a poet, you know, called Gustav Adolfo Becor, you know, Spanish poet. And

Speaker 3 he's very famous in the Spanish, you know, literature and all of that.

Speaker 1 So it wasn't a family name or anything?

Speaker 3 No, I'm the first Gustavo, you know, Gustavo I.

Speaker 2 What do they call you for short?

Speaker 2 Does anybody call you Gus? Oh, but they don't.

Speaker 3 No, they call me in different ways, but they, when they are angry, they call me Gustav Adolfo, of course, you know. But

Speaker 3 generally, I'm my little one, Michiquito.

Speaker 1 Michiquito.

Speaker 3 Exactly, my little one. Then my grandmother, my mother, they call me like that.
But I'm Gustavo. Gos, some people call me Gos.

Speaker 1 Wait, do you have brothers and sisters to get angry and call you that?

Speaker 3 Well, I have a sister that is the same age of my son, you know, so she's like my daughter.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 So, yes, I was an only child for 30 years.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 And I have a beautiful daughter.

Speaker 1 Wow. Oh, wow.
That's so great.

Speaker 2 And do you live here in Los Angeles?

Speaker 3 You must. I live in Los Angeles.
Yes.

Speaker 3 Before the COVID thing,

Speaker 3 I was traveling, you know, non-stop around the world. Even like since I married four years ago, around four years ago, I stopped traveling so much,

Speaker 3 but I'm traveling all the time. But I can call Los Angeles a a home, you know.

Speaker 2 So that's home. So right now you would be doing the portion of the season at the Hollywood Bowl, yes, but obviously that is

Speaker 2 not happening. So

Speaker 2 have you been,

Speaker 2 I guess you can't really be traveling either. So are you taking

Speaker 2 just some home time and hanging out with your wife and kid?

Speaker 3 Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 3 all of these complexities I see as opportunities. And for me, you know, being traveling, being working in a very speed, in a very fast speed.

Speaker 3 You know, I always say that we were living before the quarantine a prestissimo tempo that is very fast, you know.

Speaker 3 And now we go to an andante moderato.

Speaker 1 We can say

Speaker 1 walking tempo.

Speaker 3 Exactly. I think

Speaker 1 let him finish. Sorry.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I think for the next chapter, you know, after all of this past, I believe I want to leave, you know,

Speaker 3 an allegro calmo. You know, I don't want to get back, you know, to the same amount of, you know, things, you know.

Speaker 1 Craziness.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 Because you always go, go, go, go. I can't imagine with your energy and always,

Speaker 1 you know, doing everything, it seems, that this quarantine, this downtime, I just imagine you would go crazy. Like, how do you feel?

Speaker 1 Oh, no.

Speaker 3 Well, I'm crazy because I cannot move in front of the orchestra. You know, that is, you know, I need that exercise.
But I think, you know,

Speaker 3 the work of a conductor is a lot about reflection, you know, the interpretation, what you want to make from the notes that you are showing to the orchestra in a way, you know, with your movements and all of that.

Speaker 3 And it has been a great time for me to go deeply in a lot of things that I was doing. Not the things that I will do, but things that I was doing.

Speaker 3 I think that it has been the process for me to go to to other levels of the things that I do generally. And, you know, it comes from simplicity.
You know, I'm rereading a lot of books.

Speaker 3 I'm reading new books.

Speaker 3 I have learned about myself a lot of things. I can cook really well.

Speaker 3 I can clean.

Speaker 1 I've been reading a lot too, actually, recently, in all seriousness, and I was reading...

Speaker 1 There are a lot of parallels between wartime and what we're going through right now. And I was reading about a book about,

Speaker 1 not necessarily about the World War II, but about how people lived in Europe during that time.

Speaker 1 And so it wasn't as much a focus on the war itself, but about the people who were living there on either side and how similar it is.

Speaker 1 Of course, it's not, there's not the same, but sort of the mentality that was going on and that sort of the feelings that people were feeling are very, very similar. Hopelessness.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I was thinking about what you said, Gustavo. It's great that you said that, like a lot of reflection.
And as a conductor, it's a lot about reflection.

Speaker 1 And in this time, it has forced a lot of us to reflect on how we live our lives and what is important to us. I've been been doing the same thing.

Speaker 1 And speaking of World War II, it reminds me of a great Churchill quote that I've been thinking a lot about in this time, which is, never let a good crisis go to waste.

Speaker 1 And that's how, that's been my

Speaker 1 mindset lately has been, yeah, just, I got to, in this time, use this. What can I take out of it?

Speaker 1 And so you thought, well, let's start with the tan, right?

Speaker 2 So let's just try to get my skin looking as healthy as possible.

Speaker 1 You know, Jason, it's called the quarantine.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Uh-oh.

Speaker 2 It seems like, even since last week, that maybe did you fall asleep inside the bed?

Speaker 1 What happened was the nozzle broke. I mean, the sun just follows you.
The nozzle broke on the canister, and it all came out at once. You follow the sun around the planet, right?

Speaker 2 Because that's not a color you can get just during day hours. All right.

Speaker 1 No, I had them build me a special plane that's a convertible,

Speaker 1 first level, convertible jet. So, Gustavo, you know, a lot of people think that

Speaker 1 I remember being a kid, like thinking, like, watching conductors going, well, how hard could it be?

Speaker 1 They just wave their arms around and, you know, like the orchestra knows the notes to play and where to come in, but there's obviously a billion things to, you know, to it that, that, that's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 So explain how you shape a piece as the leader of the band, you know, because By the way, don't your arms ever get tired from holding them up that long?

Speaker 1 The shoulders.

Speaker 1 The shoulders on them are fantastic. Because I did some conducting in college and I thought that was going to be what I was going to do with my life.

Speaker 1 But all my gestures and arm movements are so gigantic, people just looked like I was a crazy person. They looked at me like I was insane.

Speaker 3 And oh,

Speaker 3 yes, it's of course, it's more than the movements for sure. Right.

Speaker 1 You know, and um, because don't you see movies where people play conductors and they're just kind of like they're just really bad at it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but but it's it's you know, I think every movement have to reflect, you know, the music. It have to shape the music that you are conducting.
And it shape different things.

Speaker 3 It shape the volume, the tempo, how fast, how slow, these kind of different things. But I believe

Speaker 3 our work is a lot

Speaker 3 as we were talking reflection, you know, it's a lot of about a philosophical point of view of an interpretation.

Speaker 3 Imagine to interpret Beethoven's symphony that have been playing, you know, for the last 200 years, you know, in different kinds of styles, you know, and then you arrive to an orchestra that have played a thousand of times also,

Speaker 3 and with the great conductors, and then you arrive with a new idea, how to convince them of that idea that makes sense, you know, musically, it makes sense artistically.

Speaker 3 And it's a lot of also about psychology. I think the most beautiful process is the rehearsal process

Speaker 3 when you are preparing something. If you have the chance to go to a rehearsal, because people see the performance, but the process is really interesting with 100 people in front of you.

Speaker 3 And you are arriving at 10 o'clock in the morning and then you have 100 people there with different realities.

Speaker 3 And then you want to inspire them. You want to convince them that there are...
other thousand ways to interpret that music that they have played

Speaker 3 a lot of times before.

Speaker 3 So it's a beautiful process.

Speaker 3 It's an invisible transformation. Sometimes you cannot see and you have to play a lot with the energy of the people.

Speaker 3 You know, from the podium where you are, I can see all the faces, you know, and you can see, you know, this guy have a problem. This lady, you know, is ultra happy.
This one is.

Speaker 3 And you have to put all of that energy in one box, you know, and take that. and put more, even more there.
So

Speaker 3 it's a lot about psychology, philosophy,

Speaker 3 and that is the thing. You know, it's not only to, it's fun, you know.
I think with the time, and sorry that I speak too much, but

Speaker 1 oh my God, I can listen to you all day.

Speaker 3 But I think

Speaker 3 I was very exuberant in the way as I was conducting

Speaker 3 for when I was a young musician until now,

Speaker 3 you see an evolution in the way of because maybe some movements I don't need right now to do as before to have the same energy, but it's part of an evolution.

Speaker 3 And yes, my arms, I have to say, are trained to be moving all the time. But

Speaker 1 yes,

Speaker 2 so for a listener who has never been to see an orchestra play, but has been to many different rock concerts.

Speaker 2 Okay, so if you go to a rock show and you hope that band plays the song that you know that you love, and they start playing it, but then they do it in a way that's completely different than what you're used to on the record or on the radio.

Speaker 2 Now, if you go to see you conduct, you know, the LA Phil or whatever, and let's say Beethoven's fourth piano concerto is one of my favorites.

Speaker 2 So, if you started conducting that and you started playing that at a tempo that is completely different than what I'm used to hearing, how much can you change what is on the sheet? What is acceptable?

Speaker 2 What is appropriate? What did Beethoven assume future conductors were going to do?

Speaker 3 Very, very, very interesting question, really.

Speaker 3 It cannot be a caprico. It cannot be an improvisation, you know, and especially if you are in front of musicians that they have their knowledge about what they are doing, you know.

Speaker 3 You cannot get and be crazy there in front of them and improvise. And, you know, everything have to be very well prepared.
Although, I have to say that

Speaker 3 since Beethoven premiere his concertos, let's talk about the Roica Symphony, for example. Three.

Speaker 3 The Roica symphony that is one of his

Speaker 3 main masterpieces, and is that one that he wrote for Napoleon, and then he changed, you know, because he got angry with Napoleon because the ideas didn't

Speaker 3 premiere that, you know, with few musicians in a very small room. It was only one double bass, I think.
It was only one cello. Imagine we play the Eroica now with eight double basses, ten cellos,

Speaker 3 we double the winds. You know, I think the music have a dimension where you can play with some things, but notes you cannot change, for sure.

Speaker 3 You know, you can change only the things that are flexible in the discourse. I don't know how to say

Speaker 1 in the creation of the composer.

Speaker 1 Is that like tempo or the way you attack those notes?

Speaker 3 Everything. It can be everything.
But everything is in the music, I have to say. But in Beethoven, for example, he writes,

Speaker 3 for me, it's very special because he was deaf, you know, he was not allowed to listen to his music, you know, at the end of his life.

Speaker 2 Was that after the eighth symphony? Did it go away completely?

Speaker 3 Exactly, exactly. He was losing.
He was losing. Already when he wrote the fifth, he was, you know, he was listening really bad.

Speaker 1 You know that one well, because da-da-da-da.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 3 And then when he got, when you arrived to the ninth,

Speaker 1 sorry, Sean insulted me. That's okay.
No, I didn't. I'm just cutting you up to speed.
I'm getting you to speed. Listen,

Speaker 1 my question,

Speaker 1 sorry to cut you off, Gustavo. No, no, no, don't worry.
But just with Beethoven, did you believe the chemistry between Bonnie Hunt and Charles Grodin? Because I didn't.

Speaker 2 No, Will, we're talking about the music here, not the dog film.

Speaker 1 Not Beethoven, the movie, not the dog film.

Speaker 1 I'm back on track. Not the 1992 movie.
No, no, no, no, no. Talk about the composer, yeah.

Speaker 3 Got it. Embarrassing.

Speaker 1 Got it.

Speaker 1 To that point, Gustavo. You know, I studied piano at five years old.
I started taking lessons and studying music. And I started writing music.

Speaker 1 I started conducting in college, and I thought I was going to do all that stuff. But the anxiety, to your point, of having to hit those notes exactly as they're written, because you cannot improvise.

Speaker 1 You know, the notes are the notes. And so I did all these competitions and I did, and the pressure and the stress and the anxiety of having to do that.
I was like, this isn't fun.

Speaker 1 Like, it's not fun to hit the wrong notes because you hit one wrong note. Everybody can tell.
But in comedy or like stand-up,

Speaker 1 if it's not going great, you can kind of, you know, massage it to your. And it's kind of incumbent upon you.
One of the great elements of comedy certainly is the element of surprise.

Speaker 1 So sort of to that, when you're about to embark on a new project with a piece that everybody's very familiar with, anyone in these countries, and you're about to, what are the discussions that you have with everybody and with your team?

Speaker 1 What are the kind of conceptual conversations that you have that's going to say, you know, on this particular,

Speaker 1 when we embark on this, we're going to do this. What is how do we surprise them? Yeah.
Yeah, what is the, as we would say in America, what's the blocking and tackling on this?

Speaker 1 What is the actual X's and O's?

Speaker 2 Yeah, and how far can you go?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 3 this is a kind of a paradox because

Speaker 3 when you go to the stage, let's say for the first rehearsal, you know, you have been preparing your interpretation with the score. You have the party tour, you read, maybe you listen to

Speaker 3 old recordings. I try to do that sometimes, you know, and then I stop for a year and then I go back and I check the things that I want to.
But then when you arrive, this is the thing of conducting.

Speaker 3 When you arrive to the stage and the orchestra play perfectly, what you do,

Speaker 3 you know, what you can say, you know, and there is the point where it starts the recreation of all of what have been happening, you know, with this music.

Speaker 3 And there is a connection, you know, there is a, I have to say, Garcia Lorca, the Spanish poet, he called duende, leprechaun, you know, that some people have, you know, people can call charisma, talent, or all of that, to connect, you know, and to convince in a good way.

Speaker 3 And for me, that is the most important thing. When I explain something, you need to have a reason for them.

Speaker 3 If not, doesn't work, you know, and the orchestras, they can smell the blood, you know, they can't really know if you are, hmm, this is not really what I have to, and then you have to navigate, you know, that very complex water.

Speaker 3 That is why you need to have the ability to have your interpretation, to be sure what you are doing, but also be flexible to change in the moment that you are playing the music live, you know, in the moment that you are playing.

Speaker 3 And look, we were talking about Betogen.

Speaker 3 You know, you in the music have the dynamics, you know, forte, if it have to be strong, piano, you have to, if it have to to be soft, mesoforte, if it have to be la da, you have allegro, it has to be fast, or adallio.

Speaker 3 Even in Beethoven, you have metronomic mark, for example. Quarter note,

Speaker 3 AT,

Speaker 3 he gave all of that information, but that is an information that can guide you to interpretate. It doesn't have to be, because imagine everybody playing in exactly the same way.

Speaker 1 And do you think that was expected back then when he wrote all of that stuff? Was it expected that all the performers?

Speaker 3 I don't think so because for here in Los Angeles, we do a lot of premieres. We do a lot of commissions to new composers that we are very proud of.
You know,

Speaker 3 this last year, we commissioned 50 new words, you know, and we premiere all of them. And you see the process of the composers.
The composers,

Speaker 3 even when they listen to the music the first time, you see they revise the music, they change things, they change tempos. So imagine Beethoven.
At that time, you know, it was not the same speed.

Speaker 3 speed. You played one concerto one time.

Speaker 3 Five years later, it was played again, and Beethoven was already dead, you know, and then other composers were bringing, you know, their own interpretation of Beethoven.

Speaker 1 So again, Will, it's the composer died, not the dog. I just saw him, Will, getting a little emotional.

Speaker 1 Because in the movie, I don't remember him dying.

Speaker 3 No, no, no, he didn't.

Speaker 1 I didn't see the sequel, so I don't know.

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Speaker 2 Gustavo, how much do you... Since obviously there was no radio, no records, no CDs, there was no way to hear these pieces of music unless they were played in front of you back in the day.

Speaker 2 Do you think that the assumption was made by Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, the rest of them, that these pieces of music would only get played when they conducted them?

Speaker 2 And therefore,

Speaker 2 their sheet music was just a reminder for themselves about where it's going, how to conduct it, with this is where I want to get louder, this is when I want to get softer, faster, slower.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 less a declaration or rules for people going forward. In the future.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Is there any writing about that? Have you talked to any scholars about that?

Speaker 3 Yes, a lot, you know. For example, for Mozart, for Beethoven, even for Bach, you know, he's a great conductor.
He already died, Nicholas Harnorcourt.

Speaker 3 He was an Austrian conductor, and he was a specialist in this music, even though

Speaker 3 he was very open to all interpretations. But most of these composers, they were great concert pianists.

Speaker 3 You know, Beethoven, Mozart, they play all of their concertos, they conducted the image of the conductor or the work of a conductor didn't exist at that time.

Speaker 1 Oh, really?

Speaker 3 They were conducting their own pieces, they were playing their own pieces.

Speaker 3 You know, in the middle, I think Mendelssohn was one of the first main conductors, you know, Felix Mendelssohn, that he was a prodigy and he was interpreting Beethoven and he rediscovered in a way back, for example.

Speaker 3 And yes, but if you see, you know, there is a lot of information to follow.

Speaker 3 And also, stylistically, you can see, you can follow, you know, sometimes you cannot play a Mozart symphony with a thousand musicians, but you can play a Beethoven symphony, the ninth, with a thousand people in the choir and with a big orchestra, you know, and they are so close.

Speaker 3 I think all of them they follow a style. For example, Haydn was master of Beethoven, also of Mozart, and then the others were following that and they were developing, you know, a style.

Speaker 3 I think that is the develop of the interpretation. But if you listen to, there are a lot of recordings from the beginning of the 20th century.

Speaker 3 The orchestra sounded really different to how we listen, how we listen to the orchestras now completely. But also the way to play, the way to play was completely, was very free.

Speaker 3 It was nothing there. And I love that.
That is sometimes my way to interpret things.

Speaker 1 Is that because do you think it's a function of

Speaker 1 where there's almost like an over-teaching and over a sense that everything has to be perfect? Like everybody has, there's so many different resources now and people can study forever.

Speaker 1 And back then it was much more organic as opposed to robotic. Do you notice? You probably don't want to say that, but.

Speaker 3 No, but we are in a place where it's very difficult to make a difference between sometimes one orchestra and another because they play very similar.

Speaker 3 Let's say the level is very high right now, where in other times the orchestras were like a club, some musicians going to play together, like Schubert, you know, the Schubertiadas.

Speaker 3 He got some musicians to play his music and all of that. It was for fun, then it got, you know, a little bit more professional and all of that.

Speaker 3 But I think that that is the point of our art right now. Is perfection where we are trying to find?

Speaker 3 But what perfection? Because if perfection doesn't exist, you know, it doesn't exist, you know. And I love that space of

Speaker 3 the perfect mistake, you know. I perceive that as a beauty of the real action of what we do.

Speaker 2 So, Gustavo, sometimes I get really overly sort of romantic about the notion that when I listen to a piece of classical music, I am traveling back in time.

Speaker 1 Well, those were the pop stars of their time, right? Yeah. Yes.

Speaker 3 Moser was the guy, you know.

Speaker 1 Those were the Beyoncés and the

Speaker 1 Rick Astleys and whatever. Everything.
So when was it that Mozart moved to the jungle? Because I know, Will, again, that's me.

Speaker 3 I can explain you exactly that because that thing was inspired by my history, you know, Mozart in the jungle.

Speaker 1 By the way, I did hear that, so that's true.

Speaker 1 Yes. But weren't you on that, or didn't you conduct something in that?

Speaker 3 I was a stage manager.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 Guille came, you know, Rodrigo, that is the character, came to Los Angeles as a guest conductor. And then I was the stage manager.
So I helped him, you know, to get to the stage.

Speaker 3 And I told him that everybody hated the conductor of Los Angeles that's Philharmonic.

Speaker 1 Gustavo, I want to ask you, because so many people think that... classical musicians and conductors and all of us are total nerds, which we kind of are.
I was and I still am.

Speaker 1 But they think that's all we do all day long.

Speaker 1 So do you ever like, whenever you're done with a concert and your adrenaline is pumping and you're feeling great, do you ever just come home and get wasted and blare rap music?

Speaker 1 And play Dungeons and Dragons.

Speaker 3 I love all music.

Speaker 1 You do? Is there anything that you don't like? No, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 You know, maybe there is music that I don't like to listen all the time. But that doesn't mean that I don't like that music, you know, because I'm very open.

Speaker 3 I'm coming from a, my father is a trombone player and he play in a Latin band. He has a salsa band.
So I wanted to be a salsa player.

Speaker 3 You know, I wanted to be like Lafania in New York and all of that, but I became a classical musician.

Speaker 1 What is your instrument that you play?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Violin. Is that your favorite instrument or just the one you play best?

Speaker 3 No, you know, for me to be a conductor, you have to know how to play all of them. Not to play, but to know about the instruments, you know.

Speaker 3 But I love the trombone because I think it was the instrument that inspired me to be a musician.

Speaker 3 I love the violin because it's my main instrument, but I love the piano, for example, that I play a little bit. And I love all instruments in general.
But yesterday, for example,

Speaker 3 I was reading and I... put some Pink Floyd, you know, I love Pink Floyd.
I was Dark Side of the Moon.

Speaker 3 I was listening yesterday and then I stopped and then I was, you know, studying Guru Leader by Schoenberg, for example.

Speaker 3 or I take some rap music that I love.

Speaker 3 For me,

Speaker 3 music doesn't have any kind of border. That is a reality.
I don't like, you know, to put this music here or this music is not good.

Speaker 1 You know. Yeah.
So here's a question I have for all of you. And I guess I'll start with Sean, then I'll go to Jason.
And then Gustavo, you go last. What is your favorite?

Speaker 1 piece or composer or whatever of classical music? What's your go-to? What's the one that

Speaker 1 has always been the thing you go back to is that's the piece that I love that really inspires me. You know, it's funny.
I was going to ask Gustavo because I had, I grew up with

Speaker 1 this piano teacher who was incredible and her husband, who was a conductor in the Chicagoland area, Harold Bauer, if you're listening, Harold. And he was incredible and he was a big mentor to me.

Speaker 1 And he, I asked him, I was, I must have been like 10 years old. I was like,

Speaker 1 Harold, if you could only listen to, if you only could listen to one composer for the rest of your life, he's like, well, that's impossible. I go, I know, but you have to pick.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I would pick Mozart. I think he said, I think he said Schubert or Schumann, something unexpected.
But mine would be Mozart. I mean, sure, he's probably the most popular.

Speaker 1 You know, he is the pop music of the 17th century.

Speaker 3 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 but that's my long answer. Jason,

Speaker 2 I am embarrassed to say that I still have not finished just filling myself with Beethoven and Mozart.

Speaker 2 I've actually gotten more and more into Haydn because I heard that he inspired Beethoven. So I was like, okay, so, and I have noticed the similarities there as far as

Speaker 2 the scope of it, the size of it, the majesty of

Speaker 2 what he wrote.

Speaker 2 And also Tchaikovsky, too,

Speaker 2 I've found as well. And plus, I'm a big fan of the Nutcracker Suite.
And so, you know, I. I love that.

Speaker 2 But Tchaikovsky's fifth symphony is something I've really

Speaker 2 gotten excited about. There's these fun, sort of plucky parts, too, that get down really quiet.

Speaker 1 I love Tchaikovsky. Gay guy, by the way.
But ultimately, Beethoven's.

Speaker 2 I would say the Beethoven's piano concertos, and then specifically four and five.

Speaker 1 So, so, wait, Gustav, I'll let you finish. I will say mine, and I know I know so much less than all of you, but the thing that I do

Speaker 1 when it comes to this,

Speaker 1 only when it comes to this,

Speaker 1 I love Rockman and Off, the piano concertos.

Speaker 1 Those speak to me in a way they're so.

Speaker 2 The second one is famously

Speaker 2 the most difficult piano playing out there, isn't there? Yeah. Just dark.

Speaker 1 And also, do you know the song, All By Myself? All by Myself,

Speaker 1 right? That's based on a Rockman and Off concerto. Oh, really? All by Myself is.
Yes, I knew that.

Speaker 1 Also based on it is, do you know that commercial goes, the best part of waking up

Speaker 1 is fulfilled.

Speaker 1 you. Gustavo, I have to apologize.
That's also based on Rakhmaninoff. Wow, that's the best.
Yeah, if you think about it, the best part of waking.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I got you.

Speaker 1 So that's mine. I know very little, but it is something that always just speaks to me.
Rachmaninoff always gets me. I don't know why.

Speaker 1 Who knows why things affect us the way they do?

Speaker 3 What about you? No, but

Speaker 3 you are right.

Speaker 3 You are all of you

Speaker 3 talking about

Speaker 3 the greatest composers.

Speaker 3 Raghmaninov is is an amazing post-romantic composer and and is full of passion that is what is rahmaninov about passion spirituosity you know it's full of feelings you know even haydn is the maestro the master you know of

Speaker 3 the music i i believe and and mozart you know even you know if you listen to the the name of mozard is also you know i think one of my favorite composers it's difficult again to say one composer for me

Speaker 1 Very difficult

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 3 I will say, you know, for example, I love John Adams' music like crazy. And I have the chance to premiere a lot of his pieces.
And he's a contemporary composer. But he's

Speaker 3 John Adams.

Speaker 3 The Jonas Brothers that I like. But John Adams.
He's a Californian composer. And he's great.

Speaker 3 He wrote an amazing opera, Nixon in China. And he has written, you know, a lot of wonderful pieces for the Philharmonic.
But I will say,

Speaker 3 oof, difficult, but Beethoven?

Speaker 2 Anything from him, yeah?

Speaker 1 Because he has that crossover from the classical period to the Romantic period, right? So he kind of covers a little bit of both.

Speaker 3 Exactly, but especially if, you know, I have conducted all the symphonies, I have conducted all the piano concertos,

Speaker 3 I have studied his opera, his only opera Fidelio. But I will say, you know, when he was at the end of his life, he was writing chamber music.
He stopped to writing symphonic music.

Speaker 3 And for me, that is the most complete music maybe that exists.

Speaker 3 You know, when you go to the late quartets of Beethoven, when you go to the great fugue, for example, that he wrote, that is music that still, you know, in the modernity, I think there's no any composer that have achieved that kind of,

Speaker 3 you know, level of intellectual, spiritual,

Speaker 3 all of these things together, all of these human things together and superhuman things together in such a small dimension for musicians.

Speaker 2 The string quartets?

Speaker 3 The late string quartets.

Speaker 2 How come he only did one violin concerto?

Speaker 1 And one opera. I love that violin.

Speaker 3 Only one. And look, it was, I think he did also an arrangement for piano for that concerto because it's such a beautiful concerto.

Speaker 3 But I think it's because he was a piano player, you know, and he was very close to one of these great violins.

Speaker 3 I forget the name that he wrote, the violin concerto but he wrote also sonatas for violin and piano that that is also that that he wrote the

Speaker 3 all of that the the the piano sonatas also did we just find our project together which one a violin piano a violin we do of course but i have to go back to the violin my god because that is difficult i have years that i don't play well both screw it up together and what did you say the perfect mistake yeah exactly you know beethoven did not did not he only did five of those piano concertos.

Speaker 2 He did nine symphonies. You know, when, and then you look at what Mozart did, what Haydn did,

Speaker 2 he was not, dare I say, that prolific? Or

Speaker 2 is that a huge mistake to say?

Speaker 3 I think his process was completely different. He was a genius in a kind of way.
He didn't want to produce a lot of things.

Speaker 3 He wanted to, when you see the sketches, he's writing a lot of ideas, a lot of ideas. And to arrive to the piece that he wrote, it took a long time.

Speaker 3 Mozart was writing music like, you know, like a computer. You know, he wrote violin concertos because he played the concertos.
He wrote the piano concertos because he played. He loved the clarinet.

Speaker 3 He wrote the first clarinet concerto. That's my favorite.
And it's amazing. And this is maybe the most beautiful clarinet concerto that exists.
It was written by Mozart.

Speaker 3 But yes, I think Beethoven was in a more,

Speaker 3 how to say,

Speaker 3 he was in another dimension in the sense of writing the music and the reason. He was also a star in his time.
He was a superstar, you know, and everybody was like crazy about him. But he was more,

Speaker 3 you know, maybe because he was not listening also.

Speaker 3 He got to that intim world.

Speaker 1 Where do you weigh in on Wagner? He seems like a very complex character.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 3 I have been studying Wagner these days, you know.

Speaker 3 And the thing with Wagner is the language also.

Speaker 3 You know, sometimes to listen to an opera for six hours in German, that is not a language that maybe you are not close, it can be kind of heavy. But I have to say that Wagner

Speaker 3 is one of the most creative and unique composers that exist. You know, he's the heart of the post-romanticism.
He's the heart of Mala, of the beginning of the Dodecaphonism, Brugner.

Speaker 1 He was a very influential composer, right? And so many young composers came.

Speaker 3 By the will for everything. He was vegetarian.
All the artists were vegetarian. Oh, Maestro Wagner was

Speaker 3 go back to eat meat. Everybody was following that.
He was like, he was a god. He was a god for the people.
And he wrote these beautiful operas that I love.

Speaker 3 Of course, I get more close sometimes to Italian because I speak Spanish. So it's a Latin language, you know, and it makes more sense for me.

Speaker 3 But when I'm studying, for example, Rheingo or I'm i'm studying lo and green or the gotter dameroon or tanhoiser it's also such a beautiful music and i try to to study the text to understand why that music is written and

Speaker 3 but i love bagner so

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Speaker 2 Cool. Are there as many composers today that there were back in those days, and we just don't hear as much about them because they aren't the rock stars of today as they were back then?

Speaker 2 Or has composing orchestral music become something that is not that widely done nowadays?

Speaker 3 There are some composers that are not play a lot, and they are really good. I have done some of them, especially,

Speaker 3 you know, beginning of the 20th century composers. And for example, there is an amazing composer, the father of the American music, we can say, that is Charles Ives, for example.

Speaker 3 And one of my last projects with the Philharmonic before the quarantine was to play, we play all his symphonies, his fourth symphonies, you know.

Speaker 3 And he's really the voice of the of the American music, you know, because it didn't exist in American music. It was European.
The influence in classical music was very European.

Speaker 3 All of the maestros came, you know, from Europe. They studied with Brahms and with, you know, the main composers and teachers in Europe.
And the education was very European.

Speaker 3 And then it came this guy, you know, writing folk songs, you know, music that he was listening from the military bands marching.

Speaker 3 So, and he created a world, listen to Charles Ive, because that is a composer that is unique. And I love to do his music.

Speaker 2 While you're recommending composers, I want to ask you this before you go.

Speaker 2 If I wanted to continue to broaden away from Beethoven, Mozart, through Haydn, Tchaikovsky, who, if that is descriptive of what my taste is, who would you recommend I listen to?

Speaker 3 Look, you have to go to Schumann.

Speaker 3 You know, Robert Schumann, you know, it's like.

Speaker 1 A minor piano concerto is great.

Speaker 3 Exactly. And he is the romantic of all romantics for me, you know.

Speaker 1 And did he precede those or follow them?

Speaker 3 Yes, you receive all of that influence.

Speaker 3 Berlios is an amazing composer, also French composer. His Symphonie Fantastique is amazing, but also his Faust, Dimension of Faust, is an amazing music opera.
Mendelssohn is an amazing composer too.

Speaker 3 Let me tell you,

Speaker 3 Brahms.

Speaker 1 I mean, you mentioned Ives, who obviously was so good as the voice of the snowman and Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, Will, you've missed it again. That's Burr Live.

Speaker 1 That's Burr Lives. Yeah.
Got it. This is

Speaker 1 Burlives. That's different.

Speaker 2 Gustavo, how have you enjoyed, if you have, conducting at the bowl when they put the movie up on the screen

Speaker 2 and then you play the music from the movie, which I think is an incredible program that

Speaker 1 you guys do there?

Speaker 2 I think I saw, what did I say? I saw 2001 there. I saw E.T.
there.

Speaker 2 It's just amazing. They pull everything out, Will, except just the music, and then the music is live.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 3 it's a very sad time because for the first time in 99 years, we will not have the season of the Hollywood Bowl.

Speaker 3 And the other day I went and it was empty. But you know, at the same time, as we were talking at the beginning, every crisis brings opportunities and we are rethinking what to do, how to do things.

Speaker 3 But really, you know, I became a fan of the Hollywood Bowl

Speaker 3 more than conducting, going to listen to concerts, you know, having the chance, you know, to

Speaker 3 listen to music, to share with my family a dinner and drink something and be with my friends.

Speaker 1 What's your favorite concert that you've seen there? Wow, they have some. Off the top of your head, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 Well, no, look, I will go, I

Speaker 3 went to Pet Sounds, for example, with Brian Wilson, and

Speaker 3 I was dating my wife, and that was one of the best dates in my life. I went to a concert of Sting and Peter Gabriel.
That was unbelievable, amazing.

Speaker 1 But also, you know,

Speaker 3 but also, you know, thousands of concerts. I have done concerts with

Speaker 3 Latin artists like Juan Luis Herra and with Natalia Laforcade, with Cafeta Cuba, and also the great classics, you know.

Speaker 3 I went to listen to a friend, you know, conducting Vorjak symphonies, Joe Yoma playing all the cello suites. Only him, you know, on the stage of the Hollywood Bowl, one cello player, 18,000 people.

Speaker 1 That was amazing.

Speaker 3 So a thousand of things. I love the Hollywood Bowl a lot.

Speaker 1 I played there last year with the Lebec sisters, you know, the two pianists? Yes,

Speaker 1 the Carnival of the Animals. Speaking of empty Hollywood Bowl, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's weird. Will, you cut out for a second.

Speaker 1 So, Gustavo, I wanted to talk about YOLA because YOLA, which is the youth orchestra Los Angeles, right, that you started, because it seems like the first thing that gets cut out of the federal budget or even local budgets is the arts.

Speaker 1 At the same time, you know, we'll toss an extra trillion dollars to the armed forces when every man, woman, and child loves movies, television, theater, music. You know, so

Speaker 1 talk about that a little bit and why it's so important to you, because I think it's I don't understand why we're constantly picking up the slack for the government to fund arts ourselves and to expose children to it.

Speaker 3 this is this is a very important topic you know it's it's a very important discussion that that

Speaker 3 us as um

Speaker 3 artistic institution we have to talk you know because it's about education also

Speaker 3 and i think um and it's about identity it's culture you know it's not an entertainment thing it's not a luxurious thing you know right as you can see art art have to be culture have to be a right for everybody and it have to be an essential part of the education of our new generations yeah contemplation you know creating beauty together creating harmony together well and also you know as a kid like i started at five years old like i said and and i didn't even realize at such a young age that it teaches structure and goal setting and discipline you know and discipline yeah and how you listen to each other and by the way and

Speaker 1 spirituality on on a certain level too. For sure.

Speaker 1 And I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about actual spirit.
Yeah, yeah. All those things that are so vital to society.

Speaker 3 Yep. But imagine that process.

Speaker 3 I can put the example of a child, you know, in his house playing a violin.

Speaker 3 He's creating his own world that he will share with other people in an orchestra for other people, because it's the action, you know, of what we create that goes to the audience and the audience receive and we have.

Speaker 3 So Yola started because I'm coming from a program, an artistic social program in my country called El Sistema, that music is being used as a tool for social change. And it has been very successful.

Speaker 3 Since 1975 that my maestro created, we have achieved more than million of children having access to music. as part of their education.
And that was the first thing that I committed.

Speaker 3 I said, you know, I will go to Los Angeles. I will accept this amazing honor if we create something that goes to the heart of the community.

Speaker 3 And this was the thing, to create a youth orchestra that it's not only for playing or for it, was an orchestra to help to these children to have a voice, because we went to the communities with difficulties.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 we are talking about that, you know. I think, as Madre Teresa de Calcuta said, the worst thing to be poor is to be no one.

Speaker 3 It's about to be excluded. And that is the thing with poverty.
You know, that is the thing with the imbalance of our societies.

Speaker 3 Then when you give the possibility to a kid to have art as part of their life, you know, you are giving something that is a treasure because you have all of these elements.

Speaker 3 You know, you have spirituality, you have discipline, you are creating beauty for others, and you are creating beauty for yourself and

Speaker 3 for the people.

Speaker 1 You can see kids light up whenever there's a music program or any kind of art.

Speaker 3 We need to give the chance to our children to have beauty in their life, in the real sense of beauty, you know, to have the chance for them to contemplate, to create.

Speaker 3 And this is the thing with YOLA and it has to be the thing with our artistic institution. Our artistic institution has to reflect what is the community, you know, and sometimes we don't see that.

Speaker 3 And people don't feel identified with that. And that is why they don't have access or they don't want to go to that.
Because classical music is elitist.

Speaker 3 I don't have the chance to go there. But then when you bring the classical music, for example, to the community, they feel that they are listening and they are important.
So it's a transformation.

Speaker 3 I believe that it's a beautiful transformation. And we are in the right place.

Speaker 1 And Sean, this is going to, I don't want to open up a bigger conversation, but it goes to your question about or why is it that governments, whether it's federal or state or municipal or whatever, cut funding to the arts.

Speaker 1 And because it goes anytime you fund something like that, anytime you educate people, people in power are very threatened by that because education is a threat.

Speaker 1 And the only thing you can do is to hold them down. And the only thing that you can free people from poverty, et cetera, and their condition, art is one of those things.

Speaker 1 The arts are one of those things that can, an education, that can allow people to rise up.

Speaker 3 I believe in utopias, you know, I believe in, because I'm a result of a crazy dream that have these men. These men have only nine people in front of him, nine young people.

Speaker 3 And he said, we will multiply this for a million. This was my Sorosi Antonio Preo in Venezuela in 1975.

Speaker 3 And then now you have, we have YOLA, we have El Sistema in Sweden, we have the same program in different parts of the world, you know, to use music for social change.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's incredible. And I've heard you say that before, that you want to use music to change society.
And I think, you know, we were talking about John Williams before.

Speaker 1 Dare I say, I I think you're accomplishing for Los Angeles and the world what John Williams did

Speaker 1 with the Boston pops and the world, which is making classical music popular.

Speaker 1 And, you know, through things that you're doing and,

Speaker 1 you know, programs like YOLA and commissioning new works from new composers. And so, you know, in my eyes, it's a nice,

Speaker 1 I'm going to get a groan from my cohorts here, but it's a nice passing of the baton from John Williams to you,

Speaker 1 if you will.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 you're keeping the classical genre alive and kicking and

Speaker 1 making people get inspired and want to explore more. And so please don't ever stop doing that.
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 You can still feel it in this city how exciting it is that you chose here to be. And please don't ever leave.
I mean,

Speaker 2 keep spreading that wealth that you're doing around the world in a very, you know, considerably cheap way. You know, you're not distributing wealth monetarily.

Speaker 2 You're distributing wealth, as you were talking about, culturally. It's a very efficient and affordable way in which to do it, to empower and to enrich people that are less fortunate.

Speaker 2 And it is a very generous thing that you're doing. And we are proud as Los Angelinos to call you our own, at least temporarily.
I hope you make it a long, long time, though.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm an Angelino for a life.

Speaker 1 Yeah, good.

Speaker 1 Good, good. All right.
Well, we love you, pal. Thanks for coming on.
No, thank you.

Speaker 3 Thank you for letting me be here and have fun with you. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 Just so you know, I know I put it out there about 10 times already, but it is my dream to do something with you one day. Oh, that we will do.
Be sure.

Speaker 3 We'll do something crazy.

Speaker 1 I would love it. Don't give him your number.

Speaker 1 All right. Thank you, my dears.
Take care. Thank you.
Pleasure to meet you. Thank you, Gustav.
Bye-bye. Bye-bye now.
Bye.

Speaker 2 That was,

Speaker 2 I'm just, I'm glad the listener couldn't see my stupid grinning face all the way through that. I just, I'm such a dork for classical music.
And he,

Speaker 1 I wonder. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 And you know, the one thing I wanted to ask him, but I didn't think of the question until the end of it. And he was wrapping up in such a beautiful, eloquent way, as were you.

Speaker 2 I've always wondered, and you might know the answer to this,

Speaker 2 why when a conductor makes an arm gesture, it is always a beat before.

Speaker 2 the music happens. In other words, you know, they're setting a tempo and it's never right on when you want the music to happen.
It's just before.

Speaker 1 Why is that? I think, and I may be wrong, but I've had that question before. I think it's because that's the way the brain works.
So you don't want to be right on it because that's already too late.

Speaker 2 Got it. And maybe it gives them a chance to like peek at the sheet music.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 And you see it. We should have had Neil Tyson on for that because it's light is faster than sound.
So you see it and then the sound comes because it's slower. That's why.
Right. Are you being serious?

Speaker 1 No, I'm not being serious, Sean. Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1 Guys, this is great that we didn't. Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 2 God, I'm so glad you didn't embarrass us more.

Speaker 1 Here's what I love. Burl Ives, Beethoven,

Speaker 1 Jonas Brothers.

Speaker 2 Wondering what the chemistry between Groden.

Speaker 1 The chemistry between Bonnie Hunt and Charles Grodin. Did you believe

Speaker 1 that there was

Speaker 1 all right, guys? Well, that was great. Thanks for joining.
Great, great, great guest.

Speaker 2 Sean, I don't know if that guest can be beat.

Speaker 1 Well done. Let's try.

Speaker 2 No, Will and I will be competing for the silver from here on out.

Speaker 1 All right, guys, we'll talk to you later. Jason, I know you love this.
Ready, Will? Yeah, I guess I'm ready. We'll talk to you later.

Speaker 1 Bye.

Speaker 1 So terrible. Smart.

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