"Mel Robbins"

I'm a level with you guys.

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Smartlist is sponsored by Skinny Pop Popcorn.

You know, very few things in life live up to their hype and what they say they're going to do for you.

You know, like,

well, let's say for travel, for instance, that always sounds great from your couch.

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now

all right listener we're gonna start with a little uh a little brain tease for us just to get us up on our feet and get nice and sharp for the chatter and that banter what we're gonna do we're gonna try a quick little um podcast exercise here we go right i'm gonna start it out ready s

we're gonna start one more time.

Still rolling.

Uh, here I go.

I'm going to start.

Ready?

S

M

A R T

L

L.

Well, we're going to go again.

We're not really up to podcasting.

It wasn't your turn.

It was my turn.

No, but no, but why were you pausing?

What are you stared at?

I was going to get the wrong answer.

You want to write it out?

Write it out in front of you.

You don't know how to spell smart.

Listen to me.

Here we go.

I'm going to start again.

Here we go.

In three, two, one.

Ready?

S.

M.

A.

R, T, L, E, S.

I almost made it.

Welcome to Smartless.

Here we go.

We limp across the finish line.

No wonder that's the title.

Smart

Less.

Smart.

Smart.

Less.

You know, Will, it's really.

Will, it's uh, it's odd to see you this morning.

I, um,

yesterday, um, Maple, uh, for um, the uninitiated listener, that's my youngest daughter.

She's 13.

Um, uh, she's got some friends that um uh were talking about arrested development.

So she said to me, Well, I'd like to see arrested development.

She hasn't really seen it, so

shut up, Sean.

You haven't seen it.

I should watch it with her.

Yeah, no.

So I was watching Arrested Last Night, season one, episode three, four, and 5.

I mean, there he is.

Look at him.

Look at this.

There's Job right there.

I am a little starstruck.

Boy, we were such little kiddies.

It was 25 years ago.

I know.

Wow.

It's crazy.

Isn't that amazing?

We look very different.

We all look very different.

I know.

And Sean has no point of reference, but it's

other than his memory.

By the way,

by the way, Jason, he also knew us at the time we were on the show, too.

So we were watching us.

I know.

This was was during the time we were watching Will and Grace.

So us was actually on Will and Grace.

I went on.

I went on.

I know, no, I know.

We loved it.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, how about that?

Wait, what does it feel like, you guys, 25 years ago, doesn't it feel like just a week ago?

It does.

Yes, and no.

It does.

25 years is pretty short at this age.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's pretty weird.

So, Shawnee, you're still in London.

Sean, what's the elevator update?

Sorry, just I haven't asked in a while.

So how are we doing?

Are we okay?

Well, when Jason came, it was broken the day before he came, and then they fixed it.

And I'll have you know during the what is it, what was they there, four days?

Yeah, four days, didn't ride the elevator once on purpose.

I got because of that.

No, no, no.

I just was like, No, I can do these stairs.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna pretend that I'm back in the olden days.

That's right, that's right.

Yeah, this thing was built.

This townhouse was built in 1770.

Crikey.

Oh, no, that's Aussie.

Elevator two.

No,

And Willie, you're still in, you're just slogging it out there in blue-collar Long Island, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Putting the air.

How you doing, man?

No air conditioning and

sweeping the steps.

I mean, you know, I mean,

this is such a, for me, it's such a, I'm getting whiplash because like I'm normally I'd be in the in the ocean right now.

I'm playing golf with Beerman tomorrow.

Right.

Why?

Why aren't, what do you mean, what do you mean?

Oh, Oh, just because I'm having to do, because I'm doing this.

No, because I had to come downstairs to do this.

Oh, sorry about that.

So sorry to interrupt.

Hey, how has golf been?

I'm going to actually hit balls today for the first time in over eight months, probably.

Wow.

I just want to say this.

My best part, one of my favorite things about JB, one of the many, many things that I love about him, is A, when he's playing golf, he's playing golf.

And when he's not, he's really not playing.

Like, he won't go at all.

But Jason, what's funny is the number of people who are aware of it.

And I get so much on the fringes of like, hey, I get texts, like, is Jason playing again?

Is he started yet?

Like, everybody knows that when it starts, it's going to be an avalanche.

So I get so much.

You know what else it is?

It's people, people miss me, Will.

They miss there's a big hole in their lives.

And they want to know when it can be filled again.

Yeah.

You're right.

They want that.

You're right.

They want that hole.

They want that asshole, that hole back.

It's a hole.

It's a hole

that they want back.

Your game must be good enough where you haven't given up the game.

No, it's actually, I didn't play for a little bit, and it's actually been pretty good recently, to be honest.

God bless.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't know if our audience wants to hear I'm hitting irons, but you know.

No, of course.

You're hitting Irons, No Woods?

I'm hitting Irons well.

It's been good.

Yeah, it's been good.

Hang on.

Sorry about this.

I preemptively said sorry.

I haven't seen you guys for a couple of weeks.

Oh, we got a classy guess.

I can tell by Sean's embarrassment.

No, not at all.

I wanted to share.

No, I wanted to share with Will what Jason was kind of blown away when I went for a walk with me, Jason and Franny, and we walked past Buckingham Palace.

And I asked the genuine question

if the family actually lived in the palace.

And I was, I mean,

the point is.

I wanted to know if it was just a tourist stop.

That's what I thought of it.

That's a size place,

all the infrastructure in and around it and everything, just for people to walk by and look through the gate.

Because I thought it was like the Mona Lisa.

I don't think the Mona Lisa, the real Mona Lisa, is hanging.

I think that's.

It sure is.

And also, why would they,

if it was for tourists, then they'd let them in if they'll rescue it.

Oh, that's true.

And I looked at him like he was, you know, the kind of

doorknob that would say, hey, boy, Beatles is spelt B-E-A-T-L.

I never knew.

And I'm like, I have a lot of people backing me up on that.

They still live there.

And of course, they've got other castles that they live in sometimes too, but that's home for them.

He's like,

I go, yeah, you dumbass.

Two hours later, he pulls me aside in privacy and goes, hey, no, seriously, do they still live there?

I'm like, yeah, you fucking dumbass.

Didn't want anybody else to hear me.

I've been thinking about it.

Yeah, for two hours.

Like, wow, they really live there.

you know what next time spare yourself the embarrassment of us chewing you out just look at turn on the google i know i was got i know i had it i had it i had it um in my brain that i needed to google it later but but is there most of the memory on your phone taken up by a candy crust is that the problem that google that they've throttled your google down

what's my data

no all right so we haven't done a record for a couple weeks i know it's so fun to see you guys i know it's really fun to see you guys you guys look great i miss you guys so much.

I miss you.

And then you guys texted me a really nice text and said that we're here.

Jason was very sweet and squishy and said, We're here, we're thinking about you, we're talking about you.

We miss you.

Yes, I responded.

And I know.

Well, I was like, I almost cried.

It was so moving.

And then

I sent you.

Oh, then I sent you another.

I sent you a little link to a fun pair of shoes that we all thought that you'd actually

respond to that.

About three days later.

Well, you know, I'm on a dirty phone.

You're not that busy.

And I know that that phone is attached to your little holster right next to your sidearm.

You're always on the phone.

Why do I take three days to get a response?

I don't text you enough.

No, Will's not a super fast texture back.

I'm not.

I'm not.

Because he's busy doing.

No, when I'm out here, I do try to leave my phone, put my phone down as much as I can.

That is true.

Oh, dude.

Oh, Riley.

I haven't heard Riley.

All right, guys, before we get to the guest, can I just let's

yeah,

let's remind everybody.

We're very excited about this news.

Y'all, we are bringing Smartlist to one of the most iconic spots in the world.

And no, we're not talking about Sean Cereal Bowl.

We're talking about the Hollywood Wall Street.

Jason,

Jason.

So if you're in that Hollywood,

you know when it is.

You're so helpful the way you toss to me.

This fall, Saturday, November 15th, here in Los Angeles, if you're in the area, Saturday, November 15th.

And when did tickets go on sale then?

Again, really, Will.

I know.

Friday, September 12th, 10 a.m.

Pacific time.

Tickets go on sale.

Friday, September 12th.

Come skip live.

Yeah, before Jason's bedtime, okay.

Yeah.

Before I go to bed.

Or I could sleep on stage.

It's fun to see me sleep.

What are some of the things you think we can see?

I think that we're going to have some guests.

We're going to have some.

You're going to have a guest.

I'm going to have a guest.

Sean does not get a guest.

But I'll bring a bowl of cereal just to make sure that you're going to close the loop on the little question.

What a loop closer you are.

You've been closing loops since 1970.

Not just fruit loops.

Okay.

All right, so listen.

So once again, that's this fall at the Hollywood Bowl, November 15th.

You can start getting tickets on September 12th.

And our listeners have a chance to get tickets first, right?

Our pre-sale begins Tuesday, September 9th.

September 9th.

Yeah, at 10 a.m.

Pacific time.

Visit smartlist.com slash live and enter our code.

And you guessed it.

It's Tracy, T-R-A-C-E-Y for first access.

That's our listeners with a pre-sale

chance.

September 9th, 10 a.m., smartlist.com/slash live.

Guys,

Friday 2010.

And you can't, can you tell me who your guests are?

No.

No.

No, it's supposed to be a surprise, Ding Don.

It's a surprise.

It's going to be surprising.

And it's supposed to be a surprise to the audience, too, for the first time, right?

Well, I guess these live shows, it's not the first time, but like, JB, you were just

at the bowl, too.

I was just at the bowl watching some classical music with with Amanda and the girls, and they hated me for, yeah, they got some nice eye rest.

But

granddad was really enjoying it.

I had a good time.

No.

We're going to liven things up there

on Saturday, November 15th.

So get your tickets starting on the 12th of September or pre-sale on the 9th.

It's going to be a brilliant.

It's going to be a brilliant chest.

Okay, let's get to our guests.

Come on.

All right, here comes our guest.

Yes, our guests.

By the way, circling back to Google, here's somebody you don't have to Google because

CEO of Google.

Could you imagine?

No, she's better than that.

She's bigger than that.

She's amazing.

Bigger than Google?

Yeah.

Jesus Christ.

She's, yeah, I'm a little intimidated.

She's one of those people who makes you wake up, quit complaining, get your mark together.

No, back in in college, she proposed to her boyfriend.

They got married.

They're still together.

Behind her signature black-rimmed glasses, she's a podcast powerhouse, a full

Google, and the number one best-selling author in the world right now.

Please welcome the final

queen.

That's it.

Five-second queen herself, Mel Robbins.

Oh my God.

You said my name.

Oh my God.

I literally was like, these fucking losers are going to spend 50 minutes figuring out who this is and they never guess it's me.

I would just shrink.

Can you believe these fucking losers?

I was, I was thinking the same thing about these fucking losers.

We're on the same, I'm not in that, I'm separate from that.

But thank you.

You're welcome.

And, you know, I got news for you guys.

Sean called me.

He's sick of your bullshit.

He can't change you.

So you're leaving the show.

I'm heavy.

Yes.

This is an intervention.

This is the transition.

Mel, you're taking over for Sean Robbins.

She's adopted me.

I'm Sean Robbins.

Oh, good luck.

Good luck having him.

Me and Robin.

What an honor to have you on the show, Mel.

This is very, very nice of you slumming it with us here.

I know you are a slummer.

Well, you know, I honestly was blown away because I know one of the criteria is you have to guess who the guest is.

And I thought, oh, well, unless Sean says she's constantly ahead of us on the rankings and the podcast chart.

You probably are.

Oh, that is true.

Okay, that whole thing.

Who's looking?

That came up.

I was just discussing you last week with some fancy folks, and they were singing your praises.

And they were telling me about the whole let them thing.

And so I'm very eager to hear.

Yes, I can't wait for you guys to hear about it.

Yeah, I know.

Come on, let it really.

I like the let them think too.

Oh, there it is behind you.

Well, do this first, Mel.

If you don't mind jumping in, first of all, thanks for being on here.

Huge fan.

I love how you speak, what you speak about, how you motivate me, how you motivate everybody.

Like, I can't get enough of it.

I really

love you.

This is me motivated.

No shower.

I look fantastic.

But, Mel, can you first talk talk before we get to let them, which I love?

And I can't wait for you to tell Jason what that is and Will.

What about the five-second rule?

Can you just go over the five-second rule?

Because for people who don't know, it sounds like obviously what you do when you drop the food on the floor and blah, blah, blah.

Well, it is kind of like that.

So, you know, I think the first thing to understand is that everything that I talk about, I learned the hard way by screwing up my own life.

And I don't think any of us wake up in the morning.

Well, Will might, but most of us don't wake up in the morning and go, you know what I'm going to do today?

Today I'm going to fuck up my life.

I think I'm going to drink too much and lie to people and lose my job.

What ends up happening to most of us is over time,

you spend too much time thinking about what you need to do and not doing what you need to do.

Right.

And I found myself in a situation when I was 41 years old, three kids under the age of 10, where my husband had gone into the restaurant business.

Right.

Lost almost a million bucks.

Oh, yeah, like complete idiots.

We secured it with our life savings.

And the restaurant business was great until 2008 hit.

And like everybody else, the world turns upside down and we found ourselves 800 grand in debt.

The liens hit the house.

I lose my job and I couldn't get myself out of bed.

And let's be honest, getting out of bed is a relatively easy thing to do when you think about the mechanics.

I mean, by the time you're 41 years old, you've done it for 41 years.

But the simplest things in life can seem impossible when you're overwhelmed or stressed out or anxious or you have so many problems and or depressed or whatever.

And so I just found myself in the situation where I would literally wake up every morning and stare at the ceiling and basically be like, I hate my life.

I hate my husband.

I don't know how I got here.

We're fucked.

And the more I thought about the problems, the more I felt like a human pot roast marinating in bed.

And it became harder and harder to get out of bed.

And, you know, honestly, I was literally, I knew what to do.

And I think this is one of the biggest things about life, that life is simple.

We just seem to make it very complicated.

You can know what to do in any situation.

And you guys talk about the Google, just go to Google or that chat GTP thing and put in whatever it is that you want and it'll spit out what you need to do.

Making yourself do it is what feels impossible.

And so one night I was watching TV.

It was a, it was Monday night in February, 2008.

And you literally are one decision away from a different life.

That's, that is the heart of what I talk about, the power of your decisions.

And I was giving myself that pep talk.

You know, when you, I don't know if you guys have ever, you can give each other pep talks, but when you're giving one to yourself, you're kind of screwed where you're like, all right, that's it.

Tomorrow it's the new you, woman.

You got to pull your shit together.

You got to stop being an asshole to Chris.

You got to put down the alcohol.

You got to get those kids on the bus.

By God, you got to, you got to get a job.

You got to open the bills that have been piling up for six months.

And when that alarm rings, you can't lay there and marinate in your fears and hit the snooze button six times.

You woman have got to get out of bed.

And honest to God, a rocket ship launched across the television screen.

It was probably like at the end of a Smartless Mobile commercial, you know, like launch right in there.

No, but it's not a bad idea, though, for you.

Right?

Feel it.

Take it.

Just write that down.

Take it.

And feel it is my idea.

It is when you claim it like that.

So I literally

thought, oh my God, it's a sign from God.

That's it.

Tomorrow morning.

What, just a rocket on the TV on the TV?

Is that what you're talking about?

Yeah, well, it was probably the four bourbon Manhattans I had that gave me that idea because it was kind of stupid, but I was drinking a lot back then.

And so the next morning, Tuesday morning, the alarm rings.

And here's the fatal mistake everybody makes.

There is this moment where you know what you should do.

You should speak up.

You should start the damn thing.

You should quit the job.

You should end the relationship.

You should go to the gym.

But instead of doing it, you stop and think about how you feel about doing it.

And within five seconds flat in that hesitation, you literally switch gears in your brain.

I didn't know this at the time.

I do now.

But the longer you think about it, the less likely you're going to do it.

And in about five seconds, you lose all motivation.

Wow.

And your whole life plays out in this five-second window.

And isn't there science to this too, right?

Tons of science.

I mean, now I know the science.

I didn't know it then.

Then I was just hungover waking up to a life that was a nightmare and habits of avoidance.

And so what was the thing you saw at night on TV?

It was, was it literally a rocket?

It was a rocket ship, but at the end of a commercial, it was like launched.

And I was so drunk, I was like, oh my God, it's God.

Okay, I'll get out of bed.

I'll launch myself out of bed so fast, I'll move like a rocket.

I won't be in there when the anxiety and the depression hits.

I'm going to move.

You took it as a metaphor, you took it to heart, and it stayed with you the next morning, and up you went.

Yeah.

Well, I counted backwards and that's the problem.

What would have happened if you'd seen an image of a sinking ship?

Oh, God.

Right there.

Done.

We're out.

We're just going to clock out right now.

Just for a listener.

I don't know.

Or just the flaming Hindenburg.

Yes.

Yes.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah, but the thing is, Jason, very astute point.

You have to count backwards.

Okay.

It's not just moving in five seconds.

The counting backwards is critical.

What researchers call it.

Like a launch.

Yes.

Five, four, three, two, one.

You have to count backwards.

It doesn't work if you count up.

Okay.

One, two, three, four, five doesn't work because you've been saying that ever since you learned how to count in whatever language you learned how to count.

When you count backwards, you have to focus for a moment.

And that brings your prefrontal cortex online, which is the part of the brain that helps you make decisions.

It's the part of the brain that helps you learn new behavior.

It's the part of the brain that you need to use if you're going to lock in new habits.

And I had a habit of just hitting the snooze button and avoiding everything.

This new habit was about taking action.

5-4-3-2-1, move before you feel ready.

So the countdown is supposed to be: this is how many seconds I have before this thing I'm ruminating about.

I have to get out of it.

Is that what you're doing?

Yeah, before I become complacent.

Right.

So I have to set this up.

So I do this countdown, this final countdown.

Oh, sing it well.

Do it.

Let's see.

See an illusion.

I'll never do it.

I'll never do it.

Because

I don't want to pay for it.

Jason, they don't get the reference, which is great.

No, but I do.

And I love you.

And you were fantastic on that show.

You should have gotten an Emmy every year, Will.

So, so

you do, so you, so you so skinny.

So you do, you do the, you do the countdown, and the first day it works.

Yeah, I get out of bed.

I'm like five, four, for the first time in six months, I was out of bed when the alarm rang.

What'd you do?

What was the first thing you knocked down?

Did you put on the Lululemons and you got out there and you just just did a

bunch of people?

High fists.

Walk.

Nope, no, no motivation for that yet.

I'm just like, I'm low bar here.

We're just talking, like, get out of bed.

I literally walk into the kitchen and my poor husband's standing there in front of the fridge.

What are you doing?

He lost all that fucking money and he's down there and he's probably making an egg McMuffin.

Correct, motherfucker.

And so you know how that thing happens where you see somebody you love and you just want to kill them.

Every day for me.

Every day.

Yes.

No, I'm kidding.

No, I'm not kidding.

No, no, no, no.

The people that you love the most are the most annoying.

Sure.

And so I just went five, four, three, two, one

because I

knew he was trying his best.

It wasn't like he was trying to fail.

Yeah.

And my anger wasn't helping.

And so counting backwards interrupted that pattern of snapping and screaming and reacting and gave me this ability to be in charge of what I was doing instead of constantly letting my emotions dictate.

See, this is what everybody gets wrong about motivation.

Motivation is garbage.

It's never there when you need it.

You got to learn how to make yourself do things that you don't feel like doing.

And if you ever did that, you'd have everything you've ever wanted.

And so you put, I'm assuming you put one foot in front of the other.

And I'm not asking for a TikTok of the day, but was there, for those out there that are having trouble making this crucial first step,

what was the, what really,

what was the tangible thing that you did first?

And from that, you built on that progress and exponentially put more and more,

you know, inertia down the road?

It's a great question.

Everybody hates the answer.

Literally, changing your life isn't glamorous.

It's grueling.

And it does not happen overnight.

It happens over time.

And I always say, because people will be like, how did you do everything that you're doing?

Because that was 16 years ago.

And so the person that everybody sees now and what I do out in the world is 16 years in the making.

And I say that what you see now is a result of one thing: I taught myself how to get out of bed on days when I didn't fucking feel like it.

That's the secret.

That's it.

Because if you can force yourself out of bed when you don't feel like it because of the depression or the anxiety or the overwhelm or the hangover or whatever it may be, the body feeds off that first progress, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

We'll be right back.

A great day starts with a good night's sleep.

Am I right?

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And now back to the show.

Now, Mel, let me ask you this.

And I like it.

I like this area a lot.

And I like the way that you talk about it.

I like your passion for it and your excitement.

And I understand and appreciate the way that you were able to do that that first day and see a result and feel a change in your body and in your mind and in your spirit, et cetera.

All those things connected.

And then so you do it again, I imagine.

I'm sort of skipping forward.

You do it a bunch and you really start to see results.

And then you think to yourself, other people can benefit from this too, if I can do it.

Or eventually.

Eventually you get to a point where you think that other people can benefit from the lessons that you learned the hard way, et cetera.

But you also have the benefit of this momentum that you've got doing it.

So there are other people who go, well, yeah, it works for Mel because

she's getting feedback from her.

pushing this out to the world.

I don't have, I'm not getting that same feedback on a global level and I'm not getting that feedback.

I'm just, you know, a person in Cleveland who's doing it and nobody's recognizing that I'm doing it.

So yeah, it works for you because, and, and you're kicking ass doing it.

You're at the top of the game.

But if you're just Joe Schmo, like if it's...

16 years ago, she wasn't getting that, right?

Right.

Yeah, no, it was three years of using it in secret before I ever told anybody about it.

Because let's face it, I didn't know why it worked.

Right.

I'm $800,000 in debt.

Right.

I am barely making the ends meet.

What business do I have telling anybody anything?

And so I used it in secret.

And by the way, was that an important part of it?

Keeping it secret.

In other words, holding your power and not bragging to your partner, hey, today I'm going to start working out.

Like, Like, I find that sometimes my stick-to-iveness is better if I don't share what my goals and

my plans for progress are.

And I keep it inside and I just do it myself.

And I've only got myself to answer to.

And then once I get some momentum going,

then I share, like, hey, by the way, I've been working out for a week, you know, or by the way, I haven't had sugar for a week.

You keep a lot of feelings inside, though.

I do.

I do.

I know.

I know you do.

I know.

It's going to burst.

But was that an important part?

Was this a private sort of initial

stage?

No.

Like I told Chris, my husband Chris,

but literally it was self-preservation.

I mean, we were in a free fall for crying out loud.

What did Chris say?

Was Chris like, okay, cool?

As long as you're not bitching at me and screaming at me, I'll try anything.

Like, if this keeps you coming off my ass so that I'm working as hard as I can, woman, like, finally, you see it.

Oh, Chris.

now i oh chris i know chris okay like come on he's a nice guy your ted talk from 2011

now has over 30 million views from 2011

and is this is this what it's most was that what it's mostly about is the five-second rule no okay so here's the story so three years go by i'm using five four three two one five four three two one to get out of bed to network and get a job to open up the bills to just do the basic blocking and tackling that we all need to do because nobody's coming.

You can sit around and hope that somebody's going to come and fix this.

They're not.

And the sooner you recognize you got to stop waiting to feel ready and you've got to get to a point in your life where where you're at doesn't work for you anymore.

So you're going to do something about it.

So for three years, I'm just working at it.

Chris is going back into the restaurant business, renegotiating leases, like working 100 hours a week.

I'm finding odd job after odd jobs we can just get the bankruptcy off our back and keep ourselves afloat with three kids under the age of 10.

You're literally just looking to make a paycheck.

You're not driving towards some North Star career-wise, like, I'm going to build a podcast and it's going to be a big success.

No, you didn't have any sort of direction.

Okay.

Absolutely not.

And also, I think when you get to a point where you really screw up your own life, because nobody makes a vision board and is like, hey, let's put images of bankruptcy and divorce and alcoholism on the back.

You're right on the back.

It's on the back.

And plus, friends and family had invested in the restaurant business.

And so I can't exactly go around trashing and complaining.

And so we're just looking to pay them back and get your head above water financially.

So we're in survival mode.

And you're pretty incredible and resourceful when you're in survival mode.

And so a buddy calls me.

We still have $800,000 in debt.

We still have liens on the house three years later.

We are still just making the ends meet.

And a buddy calls me from college and says, hey, there's a person who is putting on an event in San Francisco that I know that's looking for somebody who's changed their job a lot.

And I thought about you.

And that's not really a compliment, but she said, I, you know, they're offering two first-class plane tickets and two nights at the St.

Regis.

All you got to do is talk about career change.

Now, I had never given a speech on a stage in my life.

I had taken a public high school speaking class, but I had been a lawyer, a public defender in Manhattan.

And so I'd worked in courtrooms, but I'd never given a speech.

When you're that in debt, That sounds like a free vacation.

Right.

And so I'm like, Chris, we're going to San Francisco.

Mom, dad, come watch this.

It sounds like like a free vacation in any,

to be honest.

Exactly.

Well, I didn't really think through the part of 700 people in an auditorium.

Right, right.

Yeah.

And so I get out on that stage, and it happens to be one of the first ever TEDx conferences.

And they weren't

where you get the balls for no stage fright and all that.

Oh, you're watching a 21-minute long panic attack.

Like, I want you to look close at that TED talk.

I've got this neck rash that people get when they're drunk or they're nervous a minute in.

Oh, yeah.

No, I used to get that a ton.

I am darting around the stage and this is not about the five second rule.

It's about career change.

And I get to minute 19 and I forget

how to end the talk.

And I look out and I'm like,

oh, I know.

I do this thing.

I call it the five second rule.

The moment you have an instinct to act, you got to move within five seconds or else your brain will kill your motivation.

Thank you very much.

Oh, by the way, here's my email if you have questions.

And I leave.

Yeah.

Now.

You gave your email out publicly?

Oh, I mean, I'm just a normal person trying to get a free vacation by giving a speech about something I don't know anything about.

A year goes by.

Did they pick up incidentals?

Sorry.

No.

A year goes by.

Seriously, this is now 2012.

A year goes by.

I have a job.

Chris is still like trying to make, we still have liens on the house and TEDx decides to put it online.

I don't know this.

Another year goes by, 2013.

I start getting emails at that email address.

People start to write to me from around the world.

Mel, I've used 54321 to lose 100 pounds, 54321 to get out of bed, despite the depression.

I use 54321 to stop myself from jumping over this ferry and find the courage to ask for help.

And I was so blown away, this answers your question, Will, about like, at one point did you start talking about it that while working a full-time job for several years, I would come home at night and pour a glass of wine and answer these emails from strangers because I felt obligated to figure out why does this thing work?

Right.

Right.

And so I started researching it and talking to people.

And simultaneously building a following and a mailing list that you could then sort of transfer over into the podcast?

I started to, not yet.

Like 2012, if you, you can scroll back manually through Instagram.

You have to do it manually.

All it's, it's just pictures of my kids and barbecues.

And, you know, I didn't know normal people could make a living giving keynote speeches and so people started to ask me to speak in 2013 2014 and like you know i i went and spoke for free and then there was this moment in 2014 where 2013 rather a person came up to me after speaking for free at a big women's conference and said hey did you get your check for this thing yet and i was like check you got paid for this am i the only idiot here who's doing this for free And that's what I'm like, I got to figure this out.

Do you think that when you were younger that

this was this kind of mode, this kind of thinking was inside you the whole time when you were growing up?

You just didn't know it.

That's what I wondered too.

And like, because I remember your mom used to say, you said, I read that she said, fix it.

Wait, wait,

fix it yourself.

And

pull up your big girl panties and figure it out and fix it yourself or something like that.

Yep.

I think so.

You know, I come from like Midwestern farming stock.

And so when the chores need to get done, the chores need to get done.

Like that's my mom grew up on on a big farm.

My dad grew up in a working-class family.

And so there's just sort of a pragmatism

and a focus on doing things instead of talking about things.

Yeah, so that was kind of in you then at the, you know, when you're yeah, and touching bottom often brings out the best parts of ourselves.

You know,

touching bottom is

completely revolutionized my life.

Touching your bottom or touching bottom?

Sir, what was the question?

No, I do suspect that you do seem to have that

it's not a, it doesn't feel like a leap.

Now, of course, we're catching you after years of doing this and living this way and transforming your life.

But I think that there is, I suspect there was a kernel of that, like Sean, kind of what you were saying, that there is a kernel of that in there.

And whether it's your Midwestern roots or your blue collar,

I think also you're you're pretty sharp.

You know, so well, yeah, you say you were a public defender in New york i mean so you you're you're no ding-dong yeah right uh yeah i guess not i mean i've done some pretty ding-dong things no you know

being smart doesn't mean you're actually smart about how you live your life no but you you know discipline you went through law school like there's there's you know how to you know to ask yourself to really bring it if you need to yeah right and you and when you you had adhd when you were a kid but you didn't know that it was adhd correct yeah but i think sometimes that's that's a superpower later on in life.

Like I just saw this thing like on TikTok or something a long time ago about, we talked about this the other day.

I know I would think it's the truth on TikTok.

I haven't read that book yet.

And it said something about like childhood trauma or childhood something.

Sometimes in children create

ADD as a coping mechanism.

They can't leave their house.

They can't leave where they, right?

Because that's your shelter and your food and your family and whatever.

But because of some trauma where you can't leave, your brain's trying to constantly figure out how to problem solve.

And in doing so, you develop ADD or ADHD.

I think that was Gabor Mate that talked about the connection before between.

Hang on, let me finish.

Gabor Mate, I think, said that.

Yeah, go ahead.

I had a delicious mate the other day.

I had a Gamora latte too.

Last time I was in Naples.

What do you think of that?

Listen, I will say this.

Mel,

to that ADHD thing, it sounds like from the little, again, that I know of it, but I know

when it comes to people that I'm related to who have been diagnosed with having deficits when it comes to executive function.

And I was going to say that earlier.

There is that moment of,

and it is one of the symptoms of a particular type of ADHD where

you know that you have to do it and you can't start it.

And that's an executive function

deficiency.

Oh, yeah, that's interesting.

It can also, to Sean's point, it can also be a trauma response that there's this freeze.

Sean's point was so muddled.

It was about TikTok and he was like something in someone's head.

I was tracking.

I was tracking.

The highly intelligent here can track to what Sean's saying.

I think like the demeaning him is a way that you deflect it.

You're welcome.

Well, so to the point on ADHD, this is super interesting.

The majority of women today, because women and men and boys and girls experience ADHD at the exact same levels, but women and girls go profoundly underdiagnosed because when it was discovered in the 1970s, they only studied boys.

And when a boy has ADHD, yes.

And so when a boy has, this is going to explain marriages.

This is going to explain your sisters.

Like just buckle up because this is one of those things that every time I explain it, people go, holy fuck, that's me or that's my wife.

Holy.

And so here's, here's the short backstory.

So they only study boys.

And when boys have ADHD, which is like a structural thing that's not working in the switching mechanism of your brain, you can focus.

You just have trouble directing it at times.

And so.

Boys are a little bit more fidgety.

And you kind of notice it because they're fidgety, they interrupt, they have trouble directing their focus.

Girls have the opposite symptoms.

They tend to daydream, they get quieter, and they get harder on themselves.

Now, here's what gets interesting and really life-changing for people to learn.

If you have undiagnosed ADHD or dyslexia or executive functioning, what happens as the primary symptom is you develop anxiety because you are sitting in a classroom or in a setting where you're being asked to do things all day long that your brain can't structurally do right now.

And so anxiety develops.

So there's a huge generation of women, they call us the lost generation, of women that were diagnosed with anxiety in our high school and our college years and then medicated with something to quell the anxiety.

But the underlying issue was always undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia.

Well, it's funny you say that, Mel.

So

I had a conversation with my own dad because I was talking, there was somebody in my family who encountered this.

And this is within the last three months.

And I said, you know, when I was a teenager, and when I was, you know, a young teenager, especially adolescent in the early 80s,

I would get tested a bunch, and they say, oh, he's functioning very well.

We don't understand why he's not doing his work.

And I was kind of labeled a bad kid.

And I said, Dad, you know, and this is something a conversation I had my dad at almost 50, I was almost 55 at the time.

I'm now 55.

My dad's 86.

And I said, I now recognize in hearing what this doctor said, this behavior in myself.

And

I feel like, and of course, you know,

what ends up happening is you either get prescribed stuff.

I'm talking for a boy and I can't speak,

or you self-medicate.

Yes.

And that is one of the,

you know,

to try to quell the symptoms.

Is there something one can do for

attention deficit

that is different than medication?

I mean,

is there therapy that one can go to?

Well, there's all kinds of, it's a great question.

There's all kinds of things you can do.

And I think kind of just understanding the way that your brain works or learns helps you do all kinds of things, whether there's systems for organization, there's certain types of interventions that they do with kids that really help develop and train.

Like our son ended up, and this is how I found out at the age of 47 that I was both dyslexic and had ADHD.

Wow.

The same way that most women do our kids start struggling in school like you did will they get labeled a behavioral issue you then go through all of the neuropsych evaluation testing and then you sit back and go huh yeah that seems a lot like me and i literally turned to my pediatrician and said you know mark why didn't you like why do you think i have adhd and he's like mel of course you have adhd you're the most adhd parent i know i'm like why didn't you tell me he's like i'm not your doctor is it something that you inherit from your parents They say it can be.

They actually say that it can be impacted by what's going on when you're in utero and the stress levels of the parent or the mom and whether or not she's under a lot of stress, because it relates to your fight or flight nervous system as well.

And it impacts the way it was explained to me, because again, like everything in life, it's like bad things need to happen.

And then I realize, okay, I'm fucked.

I got to figure this out.

And then I turn it into a research project.

And then I try to explain what I've learned in the simplest ways.

So anybody else, if I can save them the headache and the heartache that I went through for 30, 40 years,

not knowing what I was really dealing with, just like you will, not knowing what you're dealing with and self-medicating and acting out and feeling, you know, hypercritical of yourself.

If I can just know what this thing is, that I'm not deficient, I just have a brain that works differently.

And with ADHD, I would go to this, you know, you know, when you are in, in college or high school and you're like, all right, I got to study.

And you know, you can go to the library where you're going to see your friends, or you go to the stacks.

And so I would go to the stacks and I'm like, okay, I got to study.

And I would sit down and I'd be ready to like lock in.

And honest to God, I could not for the life of me, just like what you were talking about, Will, I couldn't make myself do it.

And worse, it's like I could hear the mouse pooping in the corner.

I could hear my stomach.

And so that mechanism that like an orchestra conductor, think about all the input of sound like an orchestra warming up.

ADHD, there's this conductor in your brain that's like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.

Okay, let's bring it all down.

Now let's lift up the sound of the strings only.

If you don't have that little conductor in your brain, brain, the whole world sounds like an orchestra warming up.

And you can't both direct your attention in certain instances and you can't silence other input.

And that's kind of what's happening.

That's fascinating.

Interesting.

Yeah, it's super fascinating, but there's lots you can do and it don't have to do medication.

Right.

So

to that point, half of the fix is actually getting the diagnosis, knowing what you have.

Then it's your choice whether you want to medicate or not, but at least you know what it is and so you can start to search for a remedy that might be different than medication or at least just start adjusting your behavior and seeing, trying some different stuff on, yeah?

Yeah.

And having some grace for yourself.

Like it drives my husband crazy that the faucet's running or that my, my sink, I don't know what your guys' bathrooms look like, but my husband's sink looks like uh, the sink at a Zen hotel.

Mine looks like you tipped over a Walgreens aisle on top of it.

Still?

Oh, my God, yes.

Like,

yeah, so wait, is the cap off the toothpaste for on you all the time?

Yeah, and you have to cosmetic

dry knob yellow.

Come on, man.

Let's get it together.

But you know,

you know, Mel, I learned all these, like,

I learned all these tricks along the way that I would do.

And I was saying to,

like,

telling somebody before that, that, like, I have, like, a thing about, like, keys in my wallet, and I don't lose.

So I have like a dish, and everywhere I live and everywhere I go, everything goes back in the same spot.

My bathroom is very clean, and I have taught myself all these things.

to do these little routines that help keep me

create order.

Yeah, that create order.

That's awesome.

Because the mind is like this.

So the order in the environment helps your mind settle.

I love that.

And I have a friend.

I have one friend.

He deals with anxiety in this way, and he ends up putting, he has a bottle of Xanax and he puts it in the elevator just in case it breaks down.

Well, you should actually send him this episode.

There's a bottle in there.

Now, Will,

you should send him this episode.

You should send him this episode because the single biggest coping mechanism for anxiety is avoidance.

And the more you avoid something, the bigger the anxiety gets.

Because when you avoid something,

you're telling yourself, I can't handle this.

That's what you're doing.

So 54321 helps.

It's Sean.

It's Sean.

And we will be right back.

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And now back to the show.

Tell us how

is Let Them

something

that is a cousin to what we're talking about or directly a part of it?

Again, great question.

So, you know, 54321 helps you push through all the resistance, the fear, the hesitation, the anxiety to take the action that changes everything.

But I always wonder, why the hell are we so resistant anyway?

Well, it turns out for me anyway, and seems like for millions and millions of people that this book has resonated with, the main source of resistance and fear in our lives is our fear of other people.

And the let them theory was something that I discovered, and it has fundamentally changed my life.

Like I feel like I have lived my life backwards for the first 54 years because I have been consumed by making sure other people are happy, by worrying about their opinions, navigating my day-to-day life based on people's expectations, their moods, what

they want versus truly learning learning that there's a different way to live.

And the let them theory is ultimately a modern version of stoicism, Buddhism, the serenity prayer.

It's a book about control and power, what you have control over and what you do not.

And two simple words, let them, will free you from the exhausting cycle of trying to manage people's thoughts, their opinions, manage their expectations.

There's a better way to live.

Let them.

Let them.

What's the basic tenet of it?

Sorry.

Is it let them have their judgment?

Let them be upset.

It's none of my business.

Let me just take care of number one.

Well, here's yes and.

So there's a second part.

Let me.

But the basic tenet, Will, is that in life,

there are only three things you can control.

Only three.

You can control what you think about.

You can control what you do or don't do.

And you can control what you do in response to your emotions.

Right.

And any psychologist will tell you, when you focus on things you can't control, and the number one thing in life that you will never be able to control is other people, what they say, what they do, what they believe, whether or not they change, whether or not they're motivated, whether or not they're anxious, whether or not they get sober.

You can't control other people.

And yet we exhaust ourselves and waste so much time and energy.

allowing meaningless shit and other people's stuff to drain your most precious resources.

Well, Mel,

and part of that too is

you also can't control.

I can't, there's not enough time for me to go around and everybody I meet and tell them how they need to treat me as well.

That's kind of part of it for me.

That's interesting.

And I was talking about this this morning with some people.

I was saying,

we've talked about it on here before.

Part of that also for me is, and it's people and it's things.

I can't be at the effect of circumstances because I got to make my own weather

in a sense.

Because if I'm at the effect of circumstances, man, that's tough sledding.

That is really tough sledding.

Do you know what I mean?

So are you talking about like if you're in your car and traffic builds up and for most people, they're going to grip the wheel and get pissed off about the traffic.

And the truth is you can't actually control the traffic.

Yeah.

And so why would you allow something like that to drain your time and energy?

100%.

And also I'll take it a step further, and this is sometimes where I lose people.

I'll say

when there's a lot of traffic and you've, you know, you've come a long way and then people are trying to get in and you're like, and most people are like, fuck you, I've been waiting for a mile.

I'm not going to let you in.

And if you let people in,

I guarantee you traffic will open up for you.

It works for me every time.

The more I give it away, the more I go, go ahead.

Go ahead.

It works every time.

It's the craziest thing.

I don't know what that is.

It's not just the traffic opens up.

Something opens up inside you.

You recognize that.

That's good to love.

And then you get, that works with love, too.

It does, but it's something else first, because most of us are really selfish.

And when we say, let them, let them in, traffic's either going to open up or it's not.

And I do believe what you believe that it does start to shift things, but what it shifts first is you recognize that your energy and your time is worth something.

And when you start to value and protect your time and energy from people's expectations, people's moods, people's rude behavior, traffic, long lines, you value and have more time and energy.

You become more in control and more empowered as a human being.

And then everything starts to change because you're not at the effect of all the shit going on outside of you.

That's right.

And yes.

And if I'm stingy.

with my attention, with my love, with my, with my kindness, I will get stinginess from the universe in return.

That is a lock for me anyway and i think that feeling of of feeling unloved is generally because i'm not pushing out enough and the

anyway sorry no no go go go ahead well i didn't mean to cut you sean what was your question no sean what's it yeah any theater stories

let him sean let him

go ahead what was your question sean

she did give you a good one up there on stage didn't know how to end it

like she gave you a great theater story.

What do you do, Mel,

as far as let them go in this world that we live in about social media and comments and people coming at you with, what's that?

Nothing.

Just let them.

Sounds great.

Yeah.

No, is it a state with people?

Like for you, I'm sure you get all kinds of comments.

And I know people, other people, they get, you know, comments that they can't, they thrive on the positive comments and they lose themselves in the negative ones.

So what about let let them for those and for yourself by the way for yourself well you can never control what somebody else thinks sean right so let them think what they're going to think let them not like okay fine i just wanted to put that out there no no i mean that's why it's what's destroying you know a lot of society today or you know people actually put weight into what people say about them and to them on social media and it goes even more than that sean because like let's just let's just unpack this so let's say that you are pulling out instagram and you're about to post something and you pick a photo and you're like oh not that photo and then uh and then you put the filter on it and then you go to write the caption and then you put the emoji and then you backspace.

You're thinking, is this too much?

Is this a for whom?

You, before you even

express yourself, you're already jumping into the brain of another human being and trying to anticipate what they're going to think.

And here's the truth.

There is nothing you can post that will actually guarantee somebody has a positive or negative thought because you can't control it.

Yeah, right.

And even if you could, you can't get it.

Yeah, just let them do what they're going to do.

Let them unfollow me.

Let them misunderstand.

Let them be disappointed.

Let them let them.

Here to go, Mel.

Here come the dick pics.

Yeah, here.

Let them.

Let them.

I don't have to look at it.

Let me decide what I'm going to look at.

Here we go.

I'll take them.

Let them.

The poor interns that are now in the DMs.

Thanks, Wes.

That's so funny.

Okay, so wait,

I got some good stuff here.

Wait.

Oh, what's the most shocking coaching request you've ever received?

Because you do private coaching, too.

Oh, I don't do any private coaching.

Oh, I thought you did.

I thought you did one-on-one coaching with like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't have time for that anymore.

The most shocking request.

Well, I got a request.

None of them are shocking.

Yeah.

They really aren't because

when it's not you, it's easy to give people advice because you're not emotionally attached to what's happening.

And if you listen closely to anybody, you can really tell what they're grappling with.

And what most of us are grappling with is either the fear of disappointing somebody

or the fear that if you do this thing, somehow people are going to judge you and you're going to end up alone.

And so everything comes back down to this fear of what other people are going to think about you

and how their actions dictate your value.

And here's the secret.

The secret is you have to like you.

And you will only like yourself if you can learn how to let other people be unhappy and learn how to let people people be disappointed and let people have their opinions and let me

really be clear about the decisions that make me proud of myself.

Because when you're proud of yourself, you kind of don't give a shit what other people do.

Right.

Okay.

So, but so, so for a lot of people that are fans of yours or people that read your books or whatever,

you come off as this fearless,

you have fearlessness and confidence.

And so you must have some self-doubt about something.

Every day.

I was literally sitting here going, am I going to have a moment where I kind of have an accident in my pants, like Jason did in the green room, you know, in Colbert?

Oh, that's a good question.

Because I'm so nervous about meeting these guys.

Like, I literally,

yeah, well, actually, you and I are going to be on Jimmy Fallon on the 17th of September, and I'm sorting through your garbage to see if you've hidden underwear in there under a Die Coke can.

Get the DC out of the way.

I can't wait to meet you.

Well, I was going to ask this same question.

Like, are you enjoying enjoying that

your state of confidence and sort of leaning forward into things actually creates the privilege of new anxieties?

As you reach and hurdle forward, you're now seeing a whole new level of complexities and challenges that are a result of you leaning forward and breaking in the open too, like to a broader audience.

You know, I'm really grateful that all this happened later in life.

Yeah,

I really am because, you know, when you go through an experience where you literally almost lose everything that matters to you, whether that's your marriage or your family or your home or your sanity, or in your case, all of it, right?

Yeah, all of it.

Like

being a parent, I mean, that must have ratcheted it up too, worried about the welfare of your kids.

Oh, my God.

You guys can't imagine.

Our kids would come downstairs at night after Chris and I had been fighting and screaming at each other, and they would find us collapsed in chairs, like hung over.

That's how they, like, you know, you're not winning at the parenting game when your kids wake you up so they can catch the bus.

Yeah.

Like, it was not good.

And so, all of this that you see now, whether it's the massive scale of the podcast or the number one book, I mean, this book is on track to be the most successful nonfiction book ever launched.

Six million copies in six months

is what this book is.

And part of it is because I'm just reminding you guys of what you know to be true.

Like stoicism is not a new idea.

Victor Frankl man's search for meaning.

What's happening out there is not where the power is.

Your power is in your response to it.

But these are all intellectual ideas.

What I love about saying let them and then let me, which is let them is where you release the control over something you can't control.

And let me is where you take the power back and focus on what you can control, which is your response to what's happening.

This is the tool, but it reminds people of what they know to be true since the beginning of time.

And what I'm grateful for is that having almost lost everything I care about and having just clawed my way out of debt and built this just brick by brick over the last 16 years, I have stayed laser focused on what really matters.

I live in the middle of nowhere in Vermont.

I have no interest in the bigness aspect of all of it because you guys know the second something hits, everybody thinks they know what you should do next.

Everybody sees something bigger for you.

I would like more time with my husband and my kids.

I would like to, you know, enjoy some of this success, meaning I'm not actually working all the time.

And so for me,

I think the anxiety or the issues that I face is more around just saying no and letting people have their expectations about what the podcast should become or what I should do next and staying laser focused, not on up here, but on what's right in front of me right now.

Because if you lose sight of what got you to where you are,

you basically blow up everything you created.

And so I am staying very focused on waking up every day and just making decisions that make me feel proud of myself and doing the best that I can and giving people a little bit of grace and focusing on what I can control and what I can't.

And then the rest will take care of itself, you know?

I love that.

What's the single thing that people think will make them happy, but won't?

In your opinion.

I think the single thing that people think will make them happy that doesn't is achieving the thing.

There's so much research that, you know, when you get the million dollars, you're going to be happy.

When you win the race, when you get the person,

it's the pursuit of it.

Everybody needs something that gets you out of bed.

Everybody needs something that you're excited about, whether it's video games or it's bird watching or it's volunteering.

If you don't have something that you're pursuing that's bigger than you, then you're always going to be stuck in that sort of survival autopilot, same old, same old man.

Yeah, you got to give yourself an opportunity to get proud of yourself, as you said earlier.

And that's usually a pursuit of something.

Yeah, but I think that the, for me,

I would imagine, I would suggest that part of that is, is, is a spiritual experience.

Very much so.

And I think that that's the true.

It's funny.

I was watching

sort of Love Island?

Yeah.

Have you seen it?

It's the episode you're on, Jason.

It's on.

No, it was

the few days leading up to the open, the British Open, the Golf.

And Scotty Scheffler gave this press conference that I found to be fascinating.

And he was being asked all these questions.

He's world number one.

He has been dominating golf for the last couple of years.

And he gave this answer.

And the room was silent.

And he sort of said, part of me thinks I spent all my life to win these tournaments, to win this tournament, the Byron Nelson in his home, in my hometown, to have a few minutes of like, yeah.

And then I realized, what's the point?

And he went on from there.

And I found it absolutely fascinating.

And I go, here is a guy.

who is at this crossroads and he's having this deep and almost spiritual experience where he's realizing that there's got to be,

he's looking for perspective.

He's gaining it and he's looking for more.

You know,

our buddy Rob Meter always jokes, perspective is a really hard thing to get if you don't have it.

And

hearing him, hearing this guy who's at the top, I mean, the millions of people are.

He's basically saying, like, now what?

Well, yeah.

And he's saying, and why?

And he actually said a few times, JB, he said, what's the point?

And it was, and

honestly, it was, it was chilling almost listening to him.

And he wasn't, poor me, and he was very happy for all the success.

And he felt he was very grateful, rather.

And yet at the same time, I could see that he was struggling with that idea.

And there's something really, really fascinating about that to me.

Mel, this has been a blast.

You are brilliant.

We've taken way too much

time.

Brilliant, brilliant.

Look at you.

You have a whole studio behind you and you stopped to talk to us about.

Yeah, it was above my garage in Vermont.

That's this one.

We got to have you boys come to to Boston.

Although you don't go anywhere, we got you guys to do stuff.

If you ever want to, you have an open invitation to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Thank you.

I mean it.

I'd love to have you on.

Pick you apart on live camera.

This would be amazing.

No, I'm just kidding.

No, I do.

I'm really looking forward to meeting you

on the 17th.

That'll be awesome.

I'm looking forward to meeting you too.

Thank you, Sean, for selecting me.

I literally was so moved.

And I can tell you the cheeseball thing now because I hate it when people come on and gush and fan.

But I, I, you caused so many problems in my marriage, you guys, because when I first started listening to you, like everybody did, I would come home because I was so jealous of your friend group.

And I thought, why are my friends boring?

And I would come home to my husband, be like, you need to start picking on me.

We're not interesting enough.

And it turns out picking on your spouse is not a great thing for a woman.

You got to let them be who they are, right?

It's our love language.

I love that.

And thank you for allowing us as your listeners to feel like we are part of this friend group because to have a friend

where you can really see that you guys love each other deeply and still jab at each other, it is a very rare thing.

And it's a gift to experience it in our lives to listen to you guys that way.

So thank you for welcoming us in.

Well, thank you for saying that.

And truly, truly, thank you for coming on this show.

It's so illuminating.

I know.

I I wish this was two hours.

I feel like I've learned a lot.

I know, right?

I don't know.

Well,

maybe we can open up those private sessions.

I know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm going to DM you for a one-on-one.

Just a dick pic, okay?

Just a dick pic.

You'll know who it's from.

That's what.

Thanks, Mel.

I appreciate it.

Thank you, Mel.

Bye, guys.

Thank you, Mel.

Thanks, guys.

Bye.

Yeah, yeah.

See you later.

Bye.

Bye.

What a pleasure.

That was awesome.

I literally was just talking about her the other day.

That's amazing.

That's cool.

Yeah, she's been on my list for like, you know, a couple of years now.

But she,

you know, over six million copies in that book.

Let them.

I mean, it's amazing.

It's also amazing when people like her, or for,

you know, another example would be Oprah or these people who lend their brains,

you know, to the masses for what they've learned or discovered and they pass it on to other people, hopefully, hoping they can help other people too.

I love that kind of stuff.

Kind of like if I can do it, you can do it, kind of thing.

Yeah, what a gift

that she's,

as a result of her own personal circumstance, you know, and touching bottom, as she was saying, you know, and developing these coping skills out of

necessity and desperation, that she found herself with a vehicle to share all of that knowledge and enlightenment with so many millions of people and obviously has helped

and

so

many folks.

folks what a what a great use of your life right we're all gonna look back when we're when we're old and gray and did we use our years right and yeah what a great success and you listen to her talk and it's kind of like oh yeah well that makes

how did i not know that it's like all common sense basically yeah we know we just need to be told yeah i mean i think we all have some coping skills in us that but maybe they're just sort of dormant until you hear somebody put them to words and you go, oh, somebody just articulated what I kind of feel in me, but didn't know if I was allowed to kind of use it.

And if somebody kind of puts it into words and puts it in somewhat of a scientific form, you're like, oh, great.

Yeah, let's use that.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Guys, can I share some?

Oh, boy.

Oh, boy.

Can I share some British words I've learned while I'm here?

Sure.

I guess so.

I mean, how much of a choice do we have?

Not much.

It's going to take 30 seconds.

Do you want a dad joke before you get into your buy section?

Sure.

You want one?

Yeah.

Oh, well.

We've got a book listener.

it just don't don't rifle through just stick your finger

up yeah here good a good elevator joke works on so many levels great love it great love

love it thank you and into our buy section now

and now it's pretty speaking of that you I've just these are the three things I've heard you take the lift I'll take the apples and pears I didn't know apples and pears meant stairs.

That's cockney, right?

It's cockney, yeah, the way they do that.

I don't know.

And then if somebody calls you, give me a call on my dog and bone.

I got a call on my dog and bone.

I didn't know phone was dog and bone.

You're saying five words instead of one.

I don't really get it, but go ahead.

That's right.

And then the last one: somebody brought in.

This is this is a true story.

Somebody brought in bagels the other day for a rehearsal for Good Night Oscar at the I can't wait.

Look who's back.

He's going to the gas.

Just when you thought he went away, he's a bag.

Look who's back.

Anyway, so he brought these bagels from a store, and this is the truth.

And the way they spelled bagel was B-E-I-G-E-L.

And that's the that was the brand name.

Huh.

And how would you pronounce it?

How would you guys say that?

I think it's yeah, I think it pronounces it mine.

Mine.

Would you like a cousin bagel?

Would you like a bagel?

Would you like bagel?

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