Surprising Benefits of Being Awkward & The Amazing Power of Seeds - SYSK Choice

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Today, on something you should know, what you must be aware of before you take your next test.

Then, you've no doubt felt embarrassed and awkward in front of other people.

It feels terrible, and it happens to everyone.

I use the phrase, embrace the awkward, because here's a truth that I feel so strongly about: that awkwardness is not something we can eliminate.

It is not a deficiency to fix.

To eliminate awkwardness implies eliminating uncertainty.

Also, the secret to parallel parking and the fascinating world of seeds, how they work, and how you get seedless watermelon if there are no seeds.

The seedless watermelon is an anomaly created by humans.

So, you can't get more seedless watermelons from a seedless watermelon.

They are a human creation.

They're sort of the Frankensteins of the food.

All this today on something you should know.

I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times.

And I'm Paul Scheer, an actor, writer, and director.

You might know me from the League Veeep or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters.

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Something you should know, fascinating intel, the world's top experts, and practical advice you can use in your life today.

Something you should know with Mike Carruthers.

Hi, and welcome.

You're just in time for another episode of Something You Should Know.

I have probably, I'm almost positive I have mentioned this before on a previous episode quite some time ago, but I still hear this this a lot, and that is this advice that parents and teachers have been giving for a long time to people who are about to take a test at the DMV or in school.

And the advice goes something like, if you're in doubt about a question, go with your first answer.

That's the advice.

Is it good advice?

No.

Research on this exact question has been going on for well over 80 years, and virtually all the studies have come to the same conclusion.

If you think about changing your answer, you're usually better off changing it and not sticking with your first answer.

Another often overlooked factor in performing well on tests is sleep.

Research shows that lack of sleep impairs your ability to think and reason and drastically increases your error rate.

And that is something you should know.

Have you ever felt awkward or embarrassed because of something you did?

Of course you have.

Everyone has.

It feels terrible.

You say the wrong thing, you trip on the sidewalk, there's spinach between your teeth, or you just generally feel like an awkward person compared to everyone else.

That feeling of embarrassment or awkwardness can be so strong that it can prohibit you from doing things or taking risks for fear of appearing foolish.

But hold on.

There may actually be some good news amongst all this awkwardness and embarrassment as you're about to hear from someone who has lived it and researched it and truly understands this.

Meet Henna Pryor.

She is a workplace performance expert and an award-winning TEDx speaker and a global keynote speaker.

She's a professional executive coach and she's author of a book called Good Awkward: How to Embrace the Embarrassing and Celebrate the Cringe to Become the Bravest You.

Hi, Henna.

Welcome to Something You Should Know.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm happy to be here.

So I find it interesting because, you know, when I'm embarrassed or I do something awkward and feel foolish, I want to forget about it.

You want to study it.

You want to dive deep.

So

what's that all about?

Yeah, I love that.

Yes, you're exactly right.

Most of us are desperately trying to figure out how to forget about them, how to eliminate them, how to avoid them.

Generally, that's the way we think about the word awkward or the emotion of awkwardness.

And why I chose to study them is twofold.

A, I've been awkward my whole life.

Daughter of immigrant parents, always felt like I stuck out a bit like a sore thumb.

Most of my adolescent story was one of desperately trying to assimilate.

You know, my name is Henna, not Jennifer or Samantha, like many people from my generation.

And awkwardness was something I identified strongly with.

So everybody knows that feeling when you do something embarrassing and people see you and

it feels horrible and it feels different than other feelings.

So what is that feeling?

The way I define awkwardness and to kind of point to what it feels like is awkwardness is the emotion that we feel when the person that we believe ourselves to be or our true self is momentarily at odds.

with the person that other people see on display.

In other words, who we are for a moment in time is different than who they see.

And so it's a social emotion.

Typically, we don't feel the emotion of awkwardness when we are by ourselves.

If we're at home and we sang the song lyric incorrectly, no one was there.

We don't typically feel awkward about it.

But if we do it in front of someone else whose opinion we value, that invites awkwardness.

So it's a social emotion and it is an emotion of discomfort.

It doesn't feel good because those two selves are at odds.

There's a gap.

Yeah, it almost feels, I mean, to me, when I was thinking about this, like you you feel incompetent being you.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I love the way of thinking about that.

You know, someone once asked me, is awkwardness a form of cognitive dissonance?

And I said, in a way, it is, because what you're sort of doing is subverting your own expectations of who you are and how something was supposed to go.

And the thought is often, why me?

Why now?

Why this?

And yet it's happened to just about everybody.

I mean, everyone's had that horrible experience of, you know, their flies down, the toilet paper's on their shoe or whatever it is that just makes you feel so horrible, but then it's gone.

So why?

So

why is it worth saying, wait, let's slow down here and take a closer look?

Mike, I'm going to challenge.

It's not always gone for people.

So what's interesting about awkwardness is that people use the word or the expression one of two ways.

Some people, for them, it is gone quickly.

They think of feeling awkward as a state, a temporary state.

I just had an awkward conversation.

Oh, that was an awkward interaction.

I just had a cringe moment.

Temporary state, it's fleeting.

It goes by.

There are other people who use the word to describe themselves as a trait.

I am awkward.

I am socially awkward, right?

And for them, it is less.

fleeting.

It is something that they hold as a part of their identity and walk through life kind of with this mask of, I'm always going to show up like this on.

So it's important for us to first figure out which model are we operating from are we identifying ourselves as this way or is it something that we do see as transient and fleeting um to quickly address your other point you know it is a self-conscious emotion which means that we are really scanning the environment for what do other people see And when we're constantly doing that scanning, it invites a different level of discomfort than some of the other uncomfortable emotions.

Would you say, is there any reason to believe that when someone self-identifies as awkward,

that that's how other people think of them, that that's how, do other people notice their awkwardness, or is it all internal?

Yeah, it's a great question because one of the fascinating things I learned in studying this was awkwardness, when we're using it to describe a person,

is not something that can be used as a statement of fact.

Awkwardness is 100% subjective.

So it is up to us to deem ourselves so, or it's up to someone else to deem a person so.

But there is no such thing as a person who is factually awkward.

So we can no, at no point use that term as a statement of fact.

So really what we're looking at is an opinion.

So it's a very helpful starting point when we're trying to wrangle or embrace this emotion to start from that belief that Awkwardness is an opinion.

It's a choice to decide if that's a word we're going to use to describe how we walk through the world.

But we also have a choice to choose different words and to empower ourselves differently.

Well, so here's the thing, though.

When you see someone do something

that you would describe as awkward, they quote, make a fool of themselves.

Generally speaking, other people are very forgiving of that and sympathetic to that and don't...

they're not laughing.

They're like, oh, God, the poor guy.

So this feeling of dread that people are judging you, they're probably not.

So why do we think they are?

Right.

I love the question.

There's two angles to explore here.

One is, you know, Tom Gilovich, he has great work around the spotlight effect, right?

This general idea that people are paying much closer attention to us than they are.

And the truth is, to your point, they rarely are, right?

They're much more concerned with themselves, whether they look awkward, whether they're making a fool of themselves.

There's actually a study that's fascinating that was done with people in Berry Manilow t-shirts, which at the time they deemed a highly embarrassing t-shirt.

Poor Berry Manilow.

They had students walk in and they were asked, what percentage of other students do you think noticed your t-shirt?

And the students estimated about 50%.

And in the first study, the answer was actually 25%.

So half of what they thought.

They then replicated this study again with another group of non-embarrassing t-shirts.

At the time, I believe it was Dave Matthews, Martin Luther King Jr., or one other.

And it was actually less than 10% of people that could identify what was on the t-shirt.

So the lesson there is people are not looking at you as closely as you think, but there are some other contributing factors that make us believe that they are.

And those factors are?

There's a phenomenon called vicarious embarrassment.

And understanding our relationship with vicarious embarrassment is really helpful to assessing how we think others look at us.

So vicarious embarrassment is essentially what you've described, the situation where someone does something embarrassing.

And rather than feeling just embarrassed for another person, we actually feel embarrassed with that person.

We almost take on their embarrassment as though it's our own.

And vicarious embarrassment, interestingly, is a function of a certain type of empathy.

So when we're very high on a certain type of empathy, it's actually called easily empathetically embarrassed.

When we can easily become embarrassed with someone else, we take on their embarrassment as though it's our own.

It is actually very difficult.

for us to detach from the idea that someone else wouldn't feel the same way about us.

And so when when we have that response, we tend to assume other people will have that sort of spotlight on us as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if most people,

even if you don't consider yourself awkward, like I don't consider myself an awkward person, but I probably consider myself more awkward than just about everybody else.

Like, because I know the things I've done that are awkward, but I don't know the things that you've done that are awkward.

So because I have that knowledge of me, I'm probably more awkward than you, even though I'm probably not.

Everyone would say that, Mike.

Everyone would say, there's no chance you're more awkward than me.

I'm probably more awkward than you, right?

Because this is

how we feel about this emotion.

We tend not to talk about it.

We tend to hold it as our own.

And so interestingly, this is a general feeling most people have because we know our own blunders.

We know our own missteps more intimately than anyone else does.

We've thought about them more.

We ruminate on them more.

Sometimes in an especially awkward interaction, we're playing that sucker around in the shower for hours.

So of course it's something that we feel more intimate with versus someone else's who we've forgotten seconds after it occurred.

So that's, it's a valid, it's a valid feeling, but I think everyone shares that one.

Yeah.

And like you say, but when, when it happens to other people, you forget about it pretty fast.

You don't, you don't sit in the shower and think about, oh, that Bob,

what he did.

But when you do it,

it takes on this enormous importance that nobody shares that with you.

And that's exactly right.

And part of, I think, where I'm very passionate is it needs to be shared.

I think the biggest danger facing us as a society right now is our social musculature is weakening to terrifying degrees.

And sometimes people, people, when they hear about this topic, they think, oh, you know, Henna wrote a book for introverts or, you know, Henna's studying this stuff for introverts.

No, actually, I'm very much an extrovert.

I am through and through an extrovert.

And so awkwardness is not limited to introverts.

This is something that as a society, we all actually got to experience what it feels like for our social muscles.

to have taken a hit because when we all came back from the pandemic when meeting restrictions started lifting and we all came back together again.

I don't know one of us that doesn't remember that moment where we were first in a room of people together and we were like, are we high-fiving?

Are we fist bumping?

Are we standing far away from one another?

I can't read your face.

I don't really know what's going on here.

Our social muscles started to atrophy.

And we're at a real dangerous intersection here where more and more the society we live in is optimizing for friction-free communication.

We don't have to ring doorbells anymore.

We just text, hey, I'm here.

We don't have to call on the phone to order food.

We put it in online.

And so, more and more, our social muscles are becoming so weak that it is presenting a real dangerous territory for introverts, extroverts, and everyone else.

We're talking about awkwardness and embarrassment, something we all experience.

And my guest is Henna Pryor.

She's the author of the book Good Awkward: How to Embrace the Embarrassing and Celebrate the Cringe to Become the Bravest You.

Hi, I'm Adam Gidwitz, host of Grim, Grimmer, Grimmest.

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But don't worry, we rate every episode Grim, Grimmer, or Grimmest, so you, your child, your family can choose the episode that's the right level of scary for you.

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We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life.

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So Henna, what is it you want people to get from this?

What is it you want people to take away from this?

You know, I use the phrase, embrace the awkward, because here's a truth that I feel so strongly about.

And, you know, every piece of data I unearthed echoed this, is that awkwardness is not something we can eliminate.

It is not a deficiency to fix.

To eliminate awkwardness implies eliminating uncertainty in life.

And so what we can learn to do instead is embrace it, lean into it, you know, learn how to recover from those moments quickly.

Elimination is not an option, but strengthening our comeback rate is.

And the only way to strengthen our comeback rate is through repetitions, is through conditioning, is through practice.

So I'm really passionate about people finding everyday low-stakes opportunities to keep their social fitness muscle, not even just strong, but frankly alive.

We need to stop making everything in our life socially friction-free.

It certainly helps to hear, even though people probably know this to some extent, but to hear you say, which I think you said earlier, or maybe I said it and you agreed,

but that

when you feel that awkwardness, people aren't as mean about it as you're imagining they are.

There's a lot of play there, that people are very forgiving of you.

And

if you can hold that in, it makes the awkwardness maybe not so bad, right?

Sure.

I think what you're pointing to in psychology, they refer to it as the illusion of transparency.

So essentially, I have an embarrassing moment, a gaffe, a blunder.

My face is hot.

I can feel my arm starting to sweat.

And I think

everyone can see that.

I think everyone can see that.

Occasionally they can.

So this isn't an absolute.

But more often than not, they can't.

We feel it much more acutely than they do.

Now that said, some of us can move through it quickly, independently, and move on.

But for others, actually, what I suggest, which might sound counterintuitive, is to actually bring the thing out into the daylight.

So ironically, the avoidance of awkwardness increases awkwardness.

When an awkward moment happens and we all avoid it, it makes us all feel more awkward about it.

And all it takes is that one person who says, man, that was awkward, wasn't it?

And we all relax and we all share a smile because we've all been there.

And the sooner we can put it out into the room and actually externalize it, the sooner we can all move on.

So counterintuitively, naming it can actually help release its power.

And so are you saying that because we are much more socially isolated and we're not flexing that social muscle, perhaps, as in previous times, that awkwardness is on the rise?

It feels that way.

A lot of people increasing in numbers are saying that they've forgotten how to manage these situations when they arise.

So, there's new data that came out post-pandemic that supports the idea that people are feeling more and more socially awkward.

They're feeling more and more socially isolated.

And, you know, the numbers are there.

There's been a diminishing of public spaces.

There's more and more folks that are still working completely from home, or at best, a hybrid workspace environment where just on a volume basis, there's not as much opportunity to have accidental run-ins or opportunities to, you know, course correct should a conversation go in a different direction.

And so what's happening as a result, one of the studies that I really enjoyed learning about was we're doing a lot more catering, which essentially means performing to meet other people's expectations because we don't have that social practice.

So we're putting on versions of ourselves that we think will be more palatable to the masses.

And when something does inevitably go sideways, because again, life, right, we can't plan for all of uncertainty.

We are less equipped with how to handle it.

We haven't had as much practice with those unexpected moments because we're not together enough to have them.

Well, this is really, you know, as you said several times, it's not something we talk about.

But it,

well, first of all, it's interesting to talk about it, but by talking about it and shining a light on it, it makes it less horrible somehow.

I think what makes me laugh and smile the most around this is as we start talking about it, you realize just how universal it is.

Another favorite moment that I discovered was there was a study that was done by an anthropologist in Papua New Guinea where he showed a mirror for the first time to to a tribe called the Biami tribe who had never seen their own reflection.

Never seen it because they didn't have the modern trinkets and the river in their area actually flowed too quickly for them to catch their own reflection.

So this anthropologist brought a mirror for the first time.

They saw their own appearance for the first time and their body had what could only be described as a full body cringe, right?

Their muscles tightened.

They had a oh kind of grimace face.

And what it really speaks to is the universality of the awkward emotion.

We all feel cringe.

We all fear awkwardness.

And the most confident people you know have not cracked the code on how to eliminate it.

They've just gotten comfortable with it instead.

And I think that's something we can all stand to do.

Do you think, though, that

somewhere in this conversation ought to be the mention of confidence, that you can trip on the sidewalk.

And if you're a confident person, you know, you have a better sense of the reality that I tripped on the sidewalk, everybody does it, and move on versus the person who trips on the sidewalk is not confident, feels like they've screwed up and they fall apart.

Yes.

Firm, yes.

One of the phrases that I really lean into to describe, frankly, myself is awkward confidence.

I will never have cool as a cucumber confidence.

I don't think it's going to be available to me in this lifetime.

I don't think my edges will ever be smooth.

And frankly, as I get older, I don't want them to be.

But people tell me regularly that I'm very confident.

And that makes me laugh because I feel awkward every day of every minute.

You know, it just, this is just who I am.

But the big difference is I've learned to embrace it.

I've learned to laugh at myself.

I've learned.

that this is universal.

We're all going to trip over the sidewalk.

We're all going to whack our arm on the metal rack at the department store.

We're all going to say the wrong thing or sing the wrong song lyric.

And I think the more that we can humanize these experiences and learn to lean into them,

this is very much the key message is there is a new brand of confidence that is available to all of us.

The version that is cool and polished and

never has a sharp, jagged edge.

Frankly, I'm over that one.

Well, I like your attitude.

And I think for anybody who's ever ever felt awkward, which is everyone, this has been a very liberating conversation and knowing that everybody feels it and it's okay.

I've been talking with Henna Pryor.

She is a workplace performance expert and speaker.

She has two TEDx talks, and I'll link to those in the show notes.

And she's the author of a book called Good Awkward, How to Embrace the Embarrassing and Celebrate the Cringe to Become the Bravest You.

And there'll also be a link to that book in the show notes.

Appreciate it.

Thank you for talking about this, Henna.

Thank you so much, Mike.

It's been a pleasure to be here.

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Look around at all the living things you see, like trees and plants and fruits and vegetables.

Pretty much all of them came from a seed.

Seeds are the beginning of life for a lot of living things.

And haven't you ever wondered like, well, how is it that a seed that's say sitting in a seed packet in a drawer for a few years, how is it you can plant that and it turns into a flower or a fruit or a plant right in front of you?

How does that work?

And if you need a seed to grow a fruit or a vegetable,

How do you grow seedless watermelon?

These are the kind of questions I want to talk with Jennifer Jewell about.

Jennifer is a gardener and a gardening educator.

She's host of a podcast called Cultivating Place, and she's the author of a book called What We Sow.

Hi, Jennifer.

Welcome to Something You Should Know.

Hi, Mike.

Thank you so much for having me.

So, what is a seed?

I mean, we know a seed when we see one, and we see them in our apples and our tomatoes or in that, you know, that packet from the hardware store.

But what is a seed?

A seed is the fertilized reproductive unit of a seed-bearing plant and

can produce a whole nother plant that looks much like its parent.

In the plant kingdom, right, there are different kinds of plants.

There are the non-seed-bearing plants, the ferns being a perfect example who reproduce by spores.

And then there are the seed-bearing plants, which include both the angiosperms, which are our flowering plants, and the gymnosperms, which are like our conifers.

Together, the seed-bearing plants represent about 80% of plant life on this planet.

And Sometimes a plant is self-fertile, meaning it can fertilize itself without the help of something else.

Sometimes plants, let's say rice and wheat, these are wind pollinated, meaning that the wind blows the pollen around when the pollen is ripe on the plant.

That will also happen.

for say aquatic plants, Mike.

Water will help with the pollination.

But I think what most people are find like the most charismatic about this process is when the birds and the bees and the butterflies and the beetles and sometimes even humans will help with the pollination.

So the plant is pollinated and then the seed from the plant goes off and grows into another plant.

Is that the formula here?

The point here is that the seed is then sent off into the world, sometimes with a soft, juicy, succulent casing like that tomato or an apple or a cherry.

But sometimes it goes out into the world pretty much on its own.

Like, think about a milkweed seed that flies up into the air, and that little seed is at the bottom of the filaments and is carried on the wind out to find ground and germinate where it lands.

And so, all of this is so that this plant species continues.

That's the purpose of all of that.

That's exactly right.

Right.

That is the purpose of all of it is to reproduce and keep the species going.

Yes.

And so, one of the things that I've always wondered about is: like,

you could

buy a package of seeds at the hardware store and the garden shop, and they could sit around forever.

And you could plant them, and it seems like it still grows.

So,

how could that be?

You would think it would have died sitting in that packet for as long as it did, but something reawakens it.

And

what is that?

So, that is a great question.

And what you are referring to is a seed's viability.

And that's its ability to reawaken, as you just said, to absorb water and heat and light and actually do this seriously miraculous act of going from this dormant,

seemingly dead little thing into

growing

being that sends out a root and sends out a shoot and puts on leaves.

Now,

there are

about 300,000 different species of angiosperms alone, the flowering plants, Mike.

And only about 260,000 of those have been described fully by science.

So there's a bunch that we know are out there, but we haven't yet described.

They've been co-evolving for something like 365 million years.

So they have figured out a lot of ways to reproduce, create seed, adapt that seed, attract

dispersal mechanisms to help get the seed out.

So viability is a big term for just how long each individual species of seed

will remain alive and possible to germinate.

Now, some that can last for a couple of weeks, so you can't actually get them from the hardware store, hold them for five years, and expect them to germinate.

But others, like these date palms that they found in an ancient Egyptian tomb, they have been germinated after like 2,000 years.

I mean, it's crazy how viability varies among species.

That said, most of the ones you pick up at the hardware store are probably good for two or three years.

So if you get a package of seeds, let's say lettuce or zinnias,

and there are maybe 60 seeds in that little packet, the first season, you should expect up to 90% of those seeds will germinate successfully.

Each year going on from that, you will get fewer and fewer of those seeds remaining viable.

Another thing that I've always never really understood is, okay, so

you could have a watermelon seed and a pumpkin seed, and you could put them in the same pot, in the same soil, feed them the same whatever, give them the same water.

One turns into a pumpkin, one turns into a watermelon.

Why?

And what is it that comes into the seed that allows that?

I mean, matter cannot be created or destroyed.

So where is that pumpkin and that watermelon coming from?

Right.

It's so, it's so interesting.

But

it is the miracle of plant life.

The pumpkin itself, right?

So the seed finds its ground.

The seed germinates and all of that DNA, just like it is in the sperm and the egg for humans, is in that seed already.

Most seeds have a little package around them.

So think about your pumpkin seed or your acorn.

And

that little packet includes the viable embryo.

It includes the first shoot root that goes down and seeks

deeper soil or deeper ground, wherever they might be.

It includes this little shoot that

shoots up into the sky, into the air, into the light, and puts out one set of leaves.

Those are called the cotyledons, the seed leaves.

They were also in miniature form in that little seed.

Once the seed receives all the cues it needs, and there are different cues for every seed, Mike,

those cues, which include moisture, heat, and light, tells the seed it's a good time to germinate.

The seed coat, which is like that dark outer coating on most seeds, like

your watermelon seed.

On a pumpkin seed, it's a lighter color, but there's still this seed coat.

As it breaks down, its enzymes go into the seed, and the final element that was already in that seed in most flowering plants is called the endosperm.

And it's this fleshy little carbohydrate packet, like a lunch sack, people often describe it as, for the seed.

And that root and that first shoot and those first seed leaves, they eat that endosperm to get themselves going.

Once they are big enough,

the root is deep enough in the ground and the shoot that's going up into the air has its second set of leaves, its first true set of leaves, those leaves start photosynthesizing.

So they are pulling in carbohydrates and sugars from the air

us.

Our plants, right?

The leaves have these beautiful little like pores that open.

They pull in the carbon in the air around us, so all the carbon dioxide.

They use that to feed themselves, and then they exhale the oxygen that we breathe.

The root is doing the same thing in the soil below.

It is kind of connecting with microorganisms and with fungal allies, and it's getting more sugars and more carbohydrates and water and feeding that plant as well.

And eventually, the plant puts on enough growth that it produces either a pumpkin or a watermelon.

So we screw around with seeds, I assume, in order to produce food for the...

food supply.

And, you know, one of the things you hear is like, you know, a lot of the commercially grown fruit and vegetables, like tomatoes and whatever, you know, don't taste very good because they're not really grown for flavor, they're grown to travel far distances.

And right,

what, how does that all work?

I mean,

are they still being grown from real tomatoes, or is this some kind of voodoo magic to create lots of tomatoes?

Or, I mean, I don't really understand how that works.

It's not like your backyard

garden, right?

Right.

We are reproducing plants by tissue culture.

We are reproducing plants by division or cuttings.

These are all clones.

So they don't add to the biodiversity of the plant kingdom the way a seed-grown plant will.

But they are also produced in

sort of human-created conditions.

So it could be hydroponics.

It could be some of these indoor vertical greenhouses we're hearing of in cities.

It could be that they are grown in greenhouse conditions in far southern California all year round with

unnatural light and heat and food being given to them.

So they are not getting

all of the input of regular sun, regular rain, regular air, and the vibrant living soil that we have in our backyard gardens or in a

small-scale organic farm.

So what we can reproduce as humans in these human-created conditions is some kind of abbreviated form of the magic that nature creates every day with these plants.

So we have something like, we have something called seedless watermelons, but we never used to have them.

And if it's seedless, then how do you grow new ones?

And then,

and how did watermelon go from seeded to seedless?

Right.

Well, this is one of those, you said it yourself, just one question back.

We screw with seeds a little bit to get what we think we want.

The seedless watermelon and seedless varieties of our food crops anywhere.

is an anomaly created by humans.

And essentially, the seed of a normal watermelon is treated with a chemical bath.

It's an alkaloid chemical that messes with the chromosomes of the DNA in that seed.

That seed is then bred

back with a normal seed, I guess, and you get a normal being a, you know.

general term and you you get essentially a mule.

You get a sterile variety of the same plant.

So you can't get more seedless watermelons from a seedless watermelon.

You have to go back and do this engineered breeding with these two different sets of chromosomes to get a seedless watermelon.

And that's true with all of the seedless varieties.

They are a human creation.

They're sort of the Frankensteins of the food.

Are plants grown for their seeds, or if you want a potato, you grow a new potato from an old potato and that should be a fine potato?

Or do you grow special potatoes that have seeds that are best for producing new potatoes?

Well, all of the above, and it really depends on the crop.

And there are, which is such a great thing, like this was one of the things that was really a revelation for me in doing the research behind the new book, What We Sow, is that seed is grown everywhere in the world

for different reasons.

There are

sections of the globe that are seed growing kind of

centers, if you will.

There's certain plants that grow for their seed specifically well in the Northeast.

There are others that grow really well, like carrots in the Pacific Northwest.

There are a lot of seed grown in China, in the Philippines, like it used to be, that we would grow our crop and we would would collect some of the seed from the crop plants that we grew.

We would let the very best of those plants go to seed.

So the biggest, and we would be selecting for certain traits because maybe you want an early producing cucumber or tomato.

Maybe you want a late producing

flowering plant because you want it to extend the season in a pollinator garden, let's say.

So, you are selecting from what you're growing in your fields right now for the traits that you want to continue in your next season.

You mark the plant, and you say, This one was the earliest, this one was the biggest, this one was the reddest, whatever it might be.

And you save seeds from those plants in order to move those traits forward.

But now that we are growing, in most cases, large-scale growing.

You need your seed right now for this season.

So it is being produced actually probably on the other side of the world where they can produce the seed for this season

in their opposite season so that they can ship it to me here in northern, you know, North America to start my season right now in spring.

So their fall backs up to my spring.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, but when you say they produce seeds, they produce plants that produce seeds.

They don't produce seeds.

Exactly.

That's exactly right.

So they are only growing for the seed production of the plants they put in.

Help me and people listening, help me understand the fascination,

the whatever that is that you have for seeds.

I think the greatest thing about seeds is just how miraculous they are.

And they are around us all the time.

They are on the trees, they are on the flowers, they are on the shrubs.

They are feeding us as humans.

They are feeding all of the insect, bird, and mammalian lives around us.

And they are so often invisible.

And if I had one piece of advice, I would say

look at what your trees and your shrubs and your flowers are producing and marvel at the ingenuity that these lives offer out every year

in order to keep our planet going.

I think that is where we will learn both the wonder and the respect to really think about how our seed is being cared for and allowing us to become advocates for its integrity in our food supply, in our native plant supply, just in our own lives.

Mike, they're miraculous.

Well, the world of seeds and plants, I mean, I've never been a big student of that, but I enjoy listening to the story because, you know, it's all around us and we see things growing and know they come from seeds, but we never think about it.

So I enjoy you sharing your insight.

I've been speaking with Jennifer Jewell.

She is a, well, she's a gardener.

She's a gardening educator and advocate, host of the podcast Cultivating Place, and author of the book, What We Sow.

And there's a link to that book in the show notes.

I appreciate you coming on, Jennifer.

Thanks for your time.

Appreciate it.

Aw, thank you so much.

I really appreciate your time and have a great day.

I like to think of myself as a pretty good parallel parker but I'm sure you've seen people who

they just don't get it and perhaps maybe you have trouble when you have to parallel park.

There is a secret to parallel parking and it is all in the name parallel.

To properly parallel park, you have to pull up parallel and even with the car car in front of the parking space you want to go into.

That means all the way up so your front bumper is even with that car's front bumper.

Plus you want to be reasonably close to that car.

Where people often go wrong is they don't pull up far enough or they come in at weird angles or they're too far out in the middle of the street not close enough to the car.

And that is something you should know.

The very best way to support this podcast is to help us grow our audience by telling people you know about it.

And hopefully they'll listen and like it too.

I'm Mike Carruthers.

Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.

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