EP.206 - DAISY MAY COOPER

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin.

Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening.

I took my microphone and found some human folk.

Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke.

My name is Adam Buxton.

I'm a man.

I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan.

Hey,

how you doing, podcasts?

Adam Buxton here.

Rosie is glaring at me.

She doesn't like it when I say, hey, how you doing podcasts anymore?

I think she's over it.

It's fair enough.

You go in and out of phases, don't you, with podcasts, I think.

For a few years, maybe it's your favorite thing.

Then after a while you just think, no,

I think we've diverged and you switch allegiances to

the rest is politics or whatever it might be I think Rosie

prefers another podcast is that true dog legs podcast is so 2020 certainly Rosie wasn't very keen on coming for a walk today it's rather an overcast day out here in the Norfolk countryside I have her on the lead

with the retractable handle section stuck in my pocket to enable me to carry my dictaphone in one hand and my phone that has my notes on it in the other hand

but I am tempted now that we're out in the fields and she's loping a bit more happily to unclip the lead and let her roam free but I was chastened earlier in the week by a conversation with someone I hadn't seen in a while

and they were complaining about

dog owners who let their dogs just bounce around without the lead.

I think they were talking more about places where you've got neighbors and the dog runs into the next garden or whatever it might be.

That's not the situation out where we are.

We're lucky to be quite remote and we don't really meet people on the whole.

in the fields around here.

Having said that,

I do keep Rosie on the lead more and more, but maybe today, Rosie.

Would you like to run free?

Yeah, whatever.

Okay.

Unclip.

Go!

Go like the wind, my dog friend.

Now I'm fine, thank you.

I'll just stand over here

and look around for a while

and then maybe do a poo.

That's okay, that's all any of us is doing, really.

How are you doing anyway, podcats?

Not too bad, I hope.

I'm alright, thanks.

I had a nice week in Kent

working on music things.

Oh, it's nearly there.

Pet sounds too.

But look, let me tell you a bit about podcast number 206,

which features a rambly conversation, very rambly this one,

with English actor and writer Daisy Mae Cooper.

Daisy Fax.

Daisy was born in 1986 and grew up in or around the vibrant market town of Cirencester in the county of Gloucestershire.

Cirencester is the largest town in the Cotswolds region of central southwest England.

Why isn't it pronounced Cirenster?

That's what I want to know.

The way that towns with similar spellings are contracted

in the pronunciation, you know, Leicester, Worcester, Bister,

that kind of thing.

You know, the Americans, they come over and they say, where is Leicester Square?

That's what Americans sound like.

And you go, it's pronounced Leicester.

We don't say the ES.

But then the Americans would say, oh, I'm so sorry.

Well, could you tell me the way to Sirenster?

And you'd go, no, you idiot.

It's pronounced Sirencester.

And the Americans would be.

understandably sad and confused at that point.

Why did you call me an idiot?

Shut up!

You'd say to the Americans.

No, don't be like that with the Americans.

Come on.

Why is it siren sester, though?

I guess the Leicester, Worcester, and Bister examples all have just one syllable before the st.

And maybe that makes a difference.

But still, whoa!

Ooh!

Ah, whoa!

We're in the pheasant corridor.

Anyway, siren sester, I'm not letting this go.

I voted leave so we could sort out this kind of madness.

Brexit.

Anyway, back to some selected career facts about Daisy.

After leaving school, Daisy earned a place at the prestigious Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts or Radar

in London.

And later she made her name, along with her younger brother Charlie, writing and performing in the hit BBC3 mockumentary This Country about the exploits of Cotswold's locals Kerry Mucklow, played by Daisy, and her cousin Kurtan

played by Charlie.

Three series in a special of This Country were produced between 2017 and 2020, during which period the show racked up over 52 million BBC iPlayer requests.

That is so many iPlayer requests.

The success of This Country led to acting and presenting opportunities for both Daisy and Charlie, with Daisy going on to act in Amando Ianucci's 2019 film The Personal History of David Copperfield, as well as Ianucci's TV comedy sci-fi show Avenue 5, first series of which aired in 2020.

In 2022, Daisy starred alongside Tim Key in the TV comedy The Witchfinder, set in the 17th century and created by Alan Partridge writers, the Gibbons Brothers.

And earlier this year, 2023, Daisy was one of the stars of writer Cash Carraway's gritty drama with comedy sprinkles, Rain Dogs.

An unconventional love story between a working-class single mother, her young daughter, and a privileged gay man.

Daisy is also working, along with her actor and writer friend Celine Hisley, on a second series of their show, Am I Being Unreasonable?

described as a twisted comedy thriller about two mums, marital angst, maternal paranoia, and a dead dead cat.

The first series aired in 2022.

In addition to all that, Daisy is also a regular on the rebooted music-themed comedy panel show Nevermind the Buzzcocks, along with host Greg Davis and regular panelists Noel Fielding and Jamali Maddox.

Series 3 is currently airing on Sky Max with musical guests including Suggs, Talia Ma, Ashniko, Sam Smith, and Supergrass's Danny Goffey, along with comedy guests including Catherine Ryan, Phil Wang, and Kyell Smith Bino.

My conversation with Daisy was recorded face-to-face in London town at the beginning of September this year, and we waffled in a very ludicrous fashion about the supernatural, Daisy's memories of watching The Adam and Joe Show.

I didn't realise Daisy

knew the Adam and Joe Show, and of course I didn't waste an opportunity to waffle a little bit about that with Daisy.

I also talked to her about art school and drama school,

therapy, social media, what she and I are like to be in a relationship with, how the children of billionaires get screwed up, why being famous isn't what Daisy imagined, our respective experiences of being involved with never mind the buzzcocks, the secrets of TV sex scenes, and what always cheers us up.

I'll be back at the end with some feedback from listeners about a recent episode of the podcast with Louis Theroux.

A couple of points that people sent messages in about.

But right now, with Daisy Mae Cooper, here we go.

laugh.

Can you tell me what you had for breakfast this morning?

I had smoked salmon and a crumpet.

Oh, that's nice.

And a crumpet.

On a crumpet.

At the Langham before, but I was taken there.

Yeah.

It's really haunted there as well.

Getting ghosts in again.

The Langham?

Yeah.

Have you heard about it?

No.

It's

meant to have been like a

hospital.

They used it as a hospital during the military or something.

And then there's a pilot that just wanders the halls and knocks on people's room doors and then they open it and he just buggers off.

A comedy pilot?

Comedy pilot, absolutely.

He just wanders around waiting to get commission.

You love ghosts.

I really do.

Have you seen a ghost?

I thought I did,

but I'm not sure.

I've had some weird things happen.

But this is really strange.

I was in my house, which is brand new, and it's sort of near a lake.

Nobody's ever lived in it.

Brand newswest.

This is out in the Cotswolds.

I woke up at about three o'clock in the morning and had my two-year-old son son in the bed.

We both woke up and saw just a pair of legs in what looked like PE shorts just running around the bed and then it was gone.

So I have no idea.

Stopped at the shorts.

Stopped at just before the hips and it was just a pair of legs.

Do you know the Dr.

Seuss story about the pants with no one in them?

No.

Do you know Dr.

Seuss?

Yes, loved Cat in the Hat and sat on the mat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Sat in the mat was the sequel.

The pair of pants with no one in them.

I can't exactly remember which story it was.

Oh, but that's harrowing, though.

It's really scary.

Because, you know, can you picture those kind of Dr.

Seuss, empty, weird, surreal landscapes?

Yes.

Yes, I can.

Bloody bleak.

Truffula trees and weird.

Truffula trees, yes.

Mad.

Sort of

it's a it's a kind of strange, nightmarish, liminal space that he creates in some of his stories.

And hang on, let's see the Dr.

Seuss.

The pale green pants.

And it's all about this guy who sees this pair of pants with no one inside them.

And they're running around.

This guy's getting massively freaked out.

Oh, my God.

And then eventually he confronts the pants.

Spoiler.

Yeah.

And it turns out the pants are scared of him as well.

Oh, that's beautiful.

So it's all fine.

You don't need to worry about the legs with the PE shorts running around in your house.

They're probably either they're really into your stuff or they're just frightened of you.

But did your son see them as well?

I'm convinced that he

because I was I thought it was my daughter and he

his eyes were watching it.

I mean it was just a few seconds and we both watched it kind of run around the bed and then it just yeah, so I'm convinced that he saw it unless i'm just trying to put that on to him but just so i mean what sort of apparition just comes as legs and

does that sort of thing freak you out then

no i i know i love it i've got really obsessed with this story have you ever heard of the sand down clown

So in the Isle of Wight in the 1970s, two kids were on this caravan site and went wandering off and they saw this thing.

Google the Sandown Clown to look at it.

It's the only way I can explain it.

It's got sort of a face, a clown-like face.

It's got no neck.

It's about seven feet tall.

It's got three fingers, three toes, and it talks on a microphone and makes ambulance noises.

But why I'm fascinated about that is why it's so mental and so specific.

Yeah, that is specific.

That why it's like the PE shorts.

It It can't, like,

it's so mad.

But if you were going to make something up, you'd at least be, you'd say, oh, it's, I don't know, it was a sort of ghosty or an alien that had,

but a microphone and ambulance sounds.

I mean, I'm a sceptic, so...

My explanation would be that these are just waking dreams.

Oh, I see.

It's your subconscious coughing up stuff.

What does PE shorts running around my bedside?

Well, that's something for you to discuss with your therapist.

I don't know, there's some

something in your life, some traumatic or sexy incident around PE shorts.

Here we go.

The Sand Down clown was a strange being encountered by two young children vacationing at Lake Common Sanddown, Isle of Wight, in May of 1973.

Following a sound like an ambulance siren, the children wandered across a footbridge over a stream and met a curious, unidentifiable being that has since been described as a cross between a clown, a robot, and an alien.

It was a shy but friendly being and spoke kindly to the children for almost half an hour before they returned to their parents.

It seemingly vanished after the encounter and has never been seen again.

Apparently, he was really polite and really nice, and then he did something to make the kids laugh, but it completely freaked them out, which is he put a berry in his ear and it came out of his

eyeball, apparently.

And he was trying to make, they said, well, you know that he was trying to make us laugh, but it sort of freaked us out a bit.

So that we ran away and then we never saw him again.

Yeah.

But even that, why would a kid say that?

I mean,

they're liars.

They just lie constantly, these kids.

Didn't you ever lie about stuff?

Didn't you ever make something up?

I mean, I know you did do some supernatural prankery when you were at school.

I did, yeah.

But mine was sort of

a little root one stuff.

Tell us about that for people who don't know.

I was at a primary school and it had been something like the patron of the primary school was a Victorian called Rebecca Powell.

And I made up that she had died and that her ghost was taking over my...

Well,

I needed an exorcism because I'd been, what's the word?

Possessed.

Possessed, that's it.

And so I would sort of convulse in classrooms.

and but i that's route one stuff that's i'm not that's not clown everyone's done that how old were you

oh god i don't about eight or nine good work and we're doing sort of ouija boards and and it was a complete pandemic and it got to the point where uh the the teachers had to address it with parents because kids were too scared to come into school and I sort of said that I saw some chairs and stacked themselves and then assembled.

Complete bollocks.

That's because I didn't want to sit through, you know, hymns and praise and all of that stuff.

Yeah.

My technique in those days was just to hyperventilate.

Oh, that's true.

And

then make myself faint.

And then I would say, oh, I'm faint.

And then I'd get pale and be able to go off to the sand.

the sanatorium it was called.

Oh my goodness.

And I could lie down in the sand and just get off whatever lesson I was having a hard time with.

That is genius.

It worked pretty well, actually.

And then I'd see all my friends at lunchtime, and they're like, You don't look very dizzy anymore.

I was like, No, I'm all right now.

I'm fine.

I had a strange turn, though.

Oh, and I kind of convinced myself a little bit that it was real.

Do you know what I mean?

Like sometimes I was sort of going, Oh,

you know, I was breathing a little faster, and it was like it was a feedback loop.

Oh, yes, oh, definitely.

I am getting a bit faint now.

I don't, whoa,

I think I do need to raise my hand.

Miss, sorry, I'm just.

Oh my goodness.

Did you go to school in Cheltenham?

No.

Yeah, I did.

I went to...

That was later.

I did an art degree there.

A sculpture degree.

Because that's not far from where you were, right?

Yes, yeah.

I'm just trying to.

So where did you go to primary school?

Oh, primary school.

Well, actually, London and then South Wales.

I was at primary school for a while there.

Oh, amazing.

Partly with some nuns.

Oh, but that was.

In a convent.

Yeah.

There was even like a nun, an American nun.

She was the only nice nun.

The Welsh nuns were horrible.

Really?

But there was an American nun, a groovy nun, and she sang songs on the guitar.

It wasn't Whippy Goldberg, was it?

I mean, it was someone like that with the same kind of lovely spirit.

Oh.

And I really liked her, American nun.

But the rest of them were not that nice.

I wasn't very popular there as well.

I was inserted at quite a late stage because my dad suddenly moved us all out to Wales to live in this house where his mum grew up.

And she had died and he wanted to kind of reconnect with his childhood perhaps a little bit.

And this house became available.

And he wanted to fulfil his fantasies of reconnecting with the countryside and getting out of London, which he hated.

So he moved us all out to Wales.

And then it wasn't great for my mum because she was just left there on her own most of the the time because my dad was a travel writer.

So he'd go off traveling.

My mum would stay home in Wales

in the middle of the countryside.

It would snow.

She'd get snowed in.

And I think she just drank heavily in those days and watched the Muppet Show.

And then we went off to

primary school nearby where

I was taunted for being a posh because no one else had the accent that I had.

No, yeah.

So I was posh and also they used to call me

a racial slur used against Chinese people because my eyes were apparently too narrow.

Oh my god.

And all this while your dad has just gone off travel writing so he doesn't have to deal with

he's gallivanting.

He's going around first class.

I do remember, I remember, because we were cute, me and my brother were huge Adam and Jay fans.

There was that segment with your dad.

It was your dad, wasn't it?

it yeah you said oh he was brilliant

so funny that's so strange to think of you watching that back in the day we you inspired us doing stop animation no way yes when did you start doing the stop animation well I mean it's generous of you to call it stop motion but it was

We were doing that stuff, I guess, around 96, 95.

We started doing bits and pieces.

And there was a bit of stop motion, i.e.,

you know, for those of you not familiar with the world of animation, you know,

you have a little Star Wars figure, which is what we had.

You move the arm a little bit, you take a photo, you move it a bit more, you take a photo, and then, hey, Presto, it looks like they're moving.

But mainly when we were doing our toy movies, it was just waggle vision.

We were just

waggling them around.

You must have had so much fun doing that.

Yeah, it was great.

And so you made similar stuff, did you?

Oh, yeah, completely inspired by you guys.

I mean, we didn't, we had Pocahontas figures and Playmobile figures.

figures.

We didn't have the, because you had like the 1980s, 1970s original Star Wars figures.

Yeah, the cannon.

And used to do the things with the mouth.

You'd actually make them talk, wouldn't you, by putting paper things?

We didn't have that level.

So ours was just more sort of move across the carpet, maybe fall down halfway through.

Would you do voiceover for them, though?

Were they talking to each other?

Yes, but they'd be stationary and that would be.

So it was dreadful.

We even played and it did a whole thing with the Playmobile pirate ship where Pocahontas turns up and then the only way to get the music on was just to literally have her stood looking at the camera while the entire song paint with all the colours of the wind.

So that was like three minutes of just I have to confess I've never seen Pocahontas.

Oh have you not?

Well you're not missing anything.

It was dreadful but

the figurines.

How old are you at that point then?

Oh gosh, must have been about eight or nine.

We used to stay up really late.

That was like, it was on a Friday, wasn't it?

It was Friday night.

Well, it varied.

Sometimes it was on a Friday.

We used to be on Wednesdays.

They'd move us around.

They were quite disrespectful.

We got obsessed with it.

And then came across when

I was at Rada and I was so depressed, came across your DVD at HMV.

Oh, yeah.

We used to watch it on a tiny little DVD player in my halls when Charlie was sleeping on the floor.

Obsessed, obsessed.

Wow.

It really got us to remember your art installation in Cheltenham.

Yeah.

It was like having to crawl through something or that's right.

Well this is so Daisy is now referring to an extra, a DVD extra on the Adam and Joe DVD.

And there was a thing I put together called The Story of Adam and Joe and it was bits of home movie footage from the archives because me and Joe used to film a lot of stuff.

And yes, there was a little section of some of the work that I did for my sculpture degree in Cheltenham.

And I think the bit you're referring to was I made a kind of padded room.

It was all white padded vinyl.

And you'd go into this very narrow space through a tight little corridor.

And then projected on the top of this white vinyl cylinder was feedback, video feedback.

Yeah, wow, that's amazing.

But how did you get marked on something like that?

Well,

I don't know what the process was.

I do remember that they one of the criticisms I got when I was on that course was that one of the tutors thought that I was using the course as a stepping stone to get into TV.

Oh well, I mean he couldn't have got it more right.

I mean at the time I was I instinctively understood that I was supposed to push back and say no no no art it's all about art for me.

Fuck TV.

Of course I don't care about television but of course I did.

I loved TV.

I'd love to be on TV.

But I did care about the art as well.

I just thought, can't you have both?

What were some of the worst pieces that picked?

Do you remember anybody's really bad art pieces?

Oh, man.

I mean, there was lots.

That's the nice thing about art school is that it encourages you to get it all out of your system.

So everyone does terrible stuff.

I did lots of terrible stuff.

I remember a lot of performance pieces, people

painting them like, you know, nakedness was always high on the agenda.

If you want want to show people how authentic you are, yes.

Oh, God, that's like drama school.

Yes, yes.

Then you take your clothes off, and then everyone can fuck off because it's like, well, I've taken my clothes off.

What have you got?

You know, that's you can't go any further than that, really.

Oh, my God, that's so funny.

Did you do?

I mean, I've read about your time at Rada, and you said that you were sort of upset by a lot of the things they got you to do there.

Oh, God, but I mean, but it's totally the same as the art school.

I mean, so much of it was just so pretentious.

where I remember, yeah, nakedness was a big one.

People sort of saying, I mean, I think, was it,

we were terrified of, was it Drama Ed?

There was another school that apparently they used to get you to sort of shit in a bucket in improvisations, which really scared us.

But yeah, it's all that absolute, complete bollocks.

I remember having to do animal studies where you'd have to be an animal for like an entire week, like in every lesson.

And this girl had made the terrible mistake of being a dragonfly, which was fucking exhausting.

And I was just like some lazy old horse.

So I was just in the corner.

I was like, swatting away flies every two seconds.

But yeah, a dragonfly.

And I just thought she was going to have a breakdown by the end of the week.

Do you get to pick your own animal?

Yeah.

So she picked a dragonfly.

A dragonfly.

Thinking that she'd just be able to

hold her arms out and vibrate them a lot and flit about and be jerky.

It's ridiculous.

Absolutely ridiculous.

But I remember doing, but with the art thing, because this reminds me of

our art installation and the fact that I remember being late for an art project for secondary school and putting an egg into a whisk and calling it birdcage because I was late for school.

And my art teacher think it was the best thing, the most moving thing she'd ever seen.

So this was a raw egg but in the shell, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And just in a whisk.

And you pop it into the whisk and it's called birdcage.

That is fucking good.

That is good.

That is brilliant.

That is brilliant.

I mean, wow.

That's genuinely good.

Do you think?

Yes.

Do you really think?

Of course, it just holds up on every level.

Oh, my God.

It looks good.

Because I genuinely just hadn't done my homework.

People have to do it.

It's a whisk to whip up eggs

before putting them in a cake.

It's about animal rights, it's about freedom, it's about cooking, it's about so much.

I'd like to do an art installation.

Imagine having like

an unlimited budget to create just a mental experience for someone.

I mean I guess, of course you are an artist, Daisy.

Am I the artist?

But you paint your canvas as the television.

Well yes, I suppose.

And you are creating visual art.

Are you on strike at the moment?

No, because you're not American.

Oh god, no, I did not.

That's that's America, isn't it?

That's America.

I've just keep getting told by my agents there's no workaround because of that.

And I hope that's the truth.

Yes.

Are you doing American productions?

No.

I mean, nothing.

Are you not?

Because your shows all go out in the States, right?

Yeah, but I th we just sell just sell it.

I heard Rain Dogs was very well received in the States.

Really?

Because I don't know if anybody watches it.

Nobody tells me.

I hope, I hope it was.

So you're not googling yourself?

No, because if I do, I get really down.

How is your relationship with social media these days?

Because you, you know, like

in twenty twenty, I think you became associated with Instagram and people were enjoying the stuff that you were putting on there during the lockdowns.

Totally.

But I've also heard you talking about how, you know, you can get anxious and you are affected.

You're affected by what you read and what people say to you on there.

So where are you at right now?

Are you on Instagram?

Oh, no.

I mean, do you know what?

It just takes one comment.

It doesn't matter how many

hundreds of comments that are lovely.

I don't care about that.

I care about the one that said,

your bottom teeth make me want to puke.

And then I just can't.

And then I can't sleep and I'm completely consumed by that.

So I just won't ever touch it again.

It's pathetic.

What's wrong with your bottom teeth?

Oh, they're fucked.

They make everyone want to puke, apparently.

that.

I mean, I'm annoyed because I had braces on the top and I should have had on the bottom.

But it's weird, isn't it?

Like, just that one thing.

And that person will probably not even remember that they've sent me that.

I mean, obviously, that's not nice.

It's not nice to comment on someone's physical appearance, and it's not nice to read about it.

But that person's just obviously a moron.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, I know.

I know.

But it's somebody that feels they're so passionate.

You've upset them so much that they have to write about it, they have to write online about it.

That's what upsets me, that somebody is so disgusted with my bottom teeth that they have to let me know

about it.

That's insane.

Yeah.

But I could never, I could never.

Have you never written anything mean to someone else?

I've never trolled anybody.

I don't think I've ever.

I've never trolled anyone online.

And do you know what?

This is mental.

I was looking up a chutney recipe on the tesco

food website and somebody said that they replace their rhubarb with apples

and then on the comments and somebody underneath commented what do you want a fucking medal

if there's trolling on the tesco food website over a chutney

like what's the world what's the world gonna do absolutely it's everywhere that's the thing i think you it's everywhere why is people putting so much hate into the?

It's just too upsetting.

You can't even make a chutney in piece.

Are you in therapy?

Do you do therapy?

No, I don't because I'm afraid that because I lie in therapy, because I don't want the therapist to judge me.

So I just change the narrative and I think this isn't helping me at all.

I'm just telling lies.

To make yourself seem like a better person.

I just want the therapist to really like me

so that I get stressed out

and then I can't keep up with the lies.

So I need a therapist to do the therapy.

I'm so fucked.

I'm so fucked in the head.

It's insane.

It never stops.

Do you have a therapist?

I mean, I have done therapy, but I've said before on this podcast that I I would definitely do it again.

I do think it can be useful if you're in a real spot and you just feel lost and just a bit of outside perspective is very valuable.

But what I haven't had is more kind of day-to-day stuff of just like, you know, how's your week been?

I had therapy after my mum died, and I felt really anxious and mad.

Yeah.

And so that was quite good and useful.

But then

at a certain point, I kind of wanted to be told what to do.

Yes, yes.

I'm paying for this service.

You know, don't just sit there and ask me how I feel about it.

If I fucking knew, I wouldn't be coming to see you.

Right.

I mean, obviously, that's what they're trying to do.

They're trying to guide you to a place where you will figure it out for yourself and where you will do the work to get yourself on a more positive path.

And that can definitely happen.

But the lazy part of me is just like, just tell me, am I a dick?

Yes.

What things am I doing are fucking dickish and need to stop?

Oh my God, that's, do you know what?

That's genius.

Blunt Blunt therapy.

That's the thing.

Well, you can have it.

I mean, there are forms of therapy where they do say that.

Really?

Because you just get trolled.

Yeah, they do say, yeah, you're a selfish prat and this is what you should do about it.

Stop being a selfish prat.

Oh my God.

I mean, I'm oversimplifying.

There are types of therapy where that's available.

But then is that a kink?

Yeah, well, there you go.

Yeah, maybe.

Just to be told how terrible you are.

I think it can become a kink, can't it?

That's the thing.

You have to be careful with it.

You have to go into it for the right reasons.

It's a minefield.

So would you have therapy again just for day-to-day stuff?

I mean, I wouldn't rule it out.

I would love to find someone

that

was outside of my immediate life, but that I respected, that was a bit older than me and seemed sort of experienced.

Yes, that you don't think.

I can see through all the questions you're asking me.

I know exactly why you're asking me that.

Yeah, because the thing is with friends,

there's an agenda, isn't there?

There's the agenda of your friendship.

There's the things that you don't say to each other because it would compromise.

Even if you're really good friends with someone.

Yes.

You don't say everything because that's unsustainable.

You wouldn't say, look, I really like you, but your bottom teeth make me want to.

Yeah.

And on days when they piss you off or you piss them off,

you don't say absolutely every part of what's pissing you off because then it's going to stick in that person's head or it'll stick in your head.

Oh, definitely.

I do envy people who are really open and can talk to each other about all those things and have a very

honest kind of robust relationship with their friends.

But I don't.

That's just not me.

No, no.

Were you ever like that?

No, I don't think.

No,

I'm too neurotic for that.

I'm terrible.

I'm terrible about telling people how I truly feel.

I'll do the complete opposite.

Like house guests, that really freaks me out.

Yeah, I have people over to my house and every single selling meat is just screaming for them to leave because I hate them being in my space.

But then I'll invite them for Christmas and I to get them out of staying today.

I'll sign myself up for a longer period with them.

I don't know why I do it.

Do you do holidays with friends?

Yes, and that's the worst.

And I end up doing stuff that I don't want to do at all.

I'll go and see some coliseum that I have no interest in and I'm so upset and angry about.

And I'm texting my other friends saying, I can't believe I'm fucking doing this.

I don't know.

Don't you find holidays.

They are very stressful.

And I always forget, like a year goes by and you forget and you just think, oh, holiday time again, great.

And then as soon as you get out, you're like, oh, yeah.

This is why I remember now.

I've got the perfect solution to this.

I think the best way to go on holiday, because you're married, right?

Yeah.

So if you go away with another couple, you do your own stuff during the day and just meet up in the evening.

Because you've got, as a couple, you've got nothing to talk about in the evening because you've both been doing the same thing and you're bored of each other.

So having another couple that go, oh, we went to go see the Coliseum, and you say, oh, we might do that tomorrow.

Was it any good?

That's a good idea.

We have children, though.

So that throws the big that's the spanner that's in the works, is that you kind of all

you're all together and looking out for them and everything is governed by their schedule.

Yeah.

How old are your kids?

Well, they're getting older now, so they're teenagers.

My youngest one is fourteen and the oldest is twenty-one.

Really?

Oh my God.

Have they had holiday romances?

No.

Romance for that generation just seems to be a totally different thing than it was for me when I was growing up in the 80s.

Yeah.

I mean, I think people growing up now, teenagers now in 2023,

have so many challenges that we didn't have when we were growing up.

And it's such a strange world in ways that I couldn't imagine.

Oh, my God.

And so,

yeah, it's really weird because it was totally central to me, the whole romantic world when I was a teenager.

It meant everything.

Was it to you?

Everything.

And holiday romances.

Did you have any of that?

You must have had.

Yeah, a couple, yeah.

It was amazing.

Unbelievably intense.

Yeah.

I mean, holiday romances for me, that was the whole reason to go on holiday with your parents.

Yeah.

Particularly if you went to a campsite, you'd wander around, and it would be the first day you'd get there, just searching for somebody else.

When was your best one?

Oh, gosh.

Campsite in Poole.

And I remember having this romance with a boy called Tom Pike.

We met in Paul, we were the same age, and he went to a school that was five minutes from where I lived in Cyrancester.

And do you know what he, how he broke it off?

No.

He said the bus journey to mine was too long.

Come on.

I know.

Of all the things, holiday romance, it obviously doesn't continue because of distance.

And he couldn't get on a bus for five minutes.

Well, you gotta.

Yeah, I really was, because I think, I don't think I've fancied anyone since

like I did him.

Are you very emotional?

Well as a partner as a partner.

What do you like to be in a relationship with?

Do you know what I'm actually really easy going as long as I get to just read my book in bed

I'm like you know like gremlins where it's like you've got the three things like don't feed me after midnight.

It's all those sort of things.

As long as you you're not an asshole I'll be fine.

But if you're an asshole, I'll be an asshole, basically.

What are you like in a relationship?

God, I mean, I find it so hard to know.

It's like, as I speak, it is my 22nd wedding anniversary.

Oh, my goodness, that's amazing.

My beautiful wife.

And I do feel like we did congratulate each other this morning.

It's like, that's not bad, is it?

That's not bad.

That's incredible.

And

it's, and we're both quite high maintenance.

Oh, it's not, it's quite a good achievement, I think.

Oh, Oh, my gosh.

We don't have like screaming rows

all the time.

But it has happened.

And I think, I don't know.

I mean,

I think she thinks that I'm pretty tricky and I can be quite toxic cloudy sometimes.

Right, yeah.

Get in a mood and she's like.

I say to her, like, what's why are you in a mood?

And she's like, I'm in a mood because you're in a mood.

And I'm like, no, I'm just in a mood because you're in a mood.

You started the mood.

I don't know.

I haven't done anything.

I'm usually very sunny.

Have you heard my podcast?

I'm fun and easygoing.

What's the biggest row you've had over the most trivial thing?

Oh, man.

I mean, I have a thing that I do in live shows where I talk about the log I keep of all the arguments that we've had, where I write them all down.

And I say, though, before that, obviously the thing about all these trivial arguments, and there's loads, is that underneath them, there's all these unresolved issues.

Oh, I see, right?

And so, often, what happens is you start trivial:

door of the dishwasher left open,

forks and knives not in the right drawer.

Yeah,

why can't you put the peeler back in the same place every time?

Yeah, why did someone put it in the pot over there in the corner?

That makes no sense at all.

Yeah,

that kind of thing.

Yes.

It starts like that, and then you know, half an hour later, you're talking about class and

parenting.

Money and,

you know,

whose family is most dysfunctional.

All this kind of stuff.

That's so funny.

And does this always come when you have a drink?

It certainly can be worse.

Yeah, that's one of the dangerous things about booze.

And I did notice at a certain point that I think red wine triggers me.

That's interesting.

That's so funny.

I can get quite ratty on red wine.

I'm pretty mellow with beer, I think.

How about you?

I, yeah, I mean, that's why I can't drink anymore.

Have you stopped completely?

I've stopped completely because I'm like a raccoon in a garage.

I just, really bad things happen when I drink.

Did you watch Succession?

No, I didn't.

No.

It's a good show.

You should give it a go.

No, but do you know what?

Weirdly, I was in rehab with one of the billionaires who it was based on I was

in with somebody who I think was an inspiration

a dysfunctional billionaire dysfunctional billionaire who this is so mental right he said his parents really screwed him up because

they would the only VHS they bought for him as a kid was DuckTales because they wanted him to watch Scrooge McDuck dive into the swimming pool of money and say this is what it's like for us.

It'sn't that fucked.

He said that.

That he said that.

That was what came out in

one of our sessions.

The only watch as his parents allowed him to watch the screw joke.

That's what billionaires are doing, isn't it?

With their kids.

They're showing them duck tales and say, see that pile of money?

I wonder he's screwed up.

Play your cards right, you'll be diving into that one day.

I always used to think, surely it's painful diving into a pile of money.

Yeah, because it's solid matter.

Yeah, that's just metal.

Just diving into a big metal jaggy mountain.

What else did you talk to the billionaire about?

Oh, he was really funny.

He was so funny, but just like the problem is, when you have so much money, there's just

what's the point?

It's like that's not

rainbows.

Yeah, sort of similar.

When you wake up and you just think, well,

what have I got to, where's the goal?

There's nothing to strive for.

And then just drugs get in, you know.

That must be mad being a billionaire.

Yes, to be the kid of a billionaire can't be easy.

I guess that's the thing about succession, the TV show, which is which enables you to feel some sympathy for these people because they didn't choose to be in that family.

You know what I mean?

They are reprehensible people, nevertheless, and the way they behave is sort of horrible.

But at core, you know, I think if you are in any way a kind of empathetic person, you can say about someone like that, well, they didn't choose it, you know, and it's like, what must that be like if suddenly you find yourself having won the lottery in that way, in some way, what most people would see as having won the lottery.

But then suddenly it's like, ta-da!

Here's a load of other shit that you have to worry about that.

Everybody else in the world would see as utterly trivial.

Yes.

You know what I mean?

Like, oh, boo-hoo.

You know, you've got no purpose in life.

Tough luck, you know, cheer yourself up with another yacht or something.

But I find that, I don't know whether you found this, but the same thing with fame, actually, because it's like

having that thing that was always the goal.

It's like, if I'm famous, and everything will be fine, and people will love me, and then I'll feel better about myself.

And then you achieve that, and it's just sort of like this sort of grey area, and you score the goal, and it's just this mist.

And it's what do I, what do I do now?

I thought this defined

what success was for me, but I'm not as happy as I thought I was.

I find, I know, I remember hearing celebrities talk about it and thinking, oh, you, you know, you've,

you twat, like you've got everything you've ever wanted and you're just, you just want an excuse to make people feel sorry for you.

But it's true.

And did you think if that was me, I would do it differently or I would feel differently?

Yeah,

I thought I'd be fucking elated because I've got loads of money and people adore me.

But it's weird.

It's so weird fame, I think, and really bit bleak.

This is like diary of a CEO now.

This is.

Yeah.

So all we need you to do is stop crying and then we cut together quite a good little trailer.

Well, I don't think that I've ever been in a similar position to you.

I'm not someone that everybody knows in that way.

Oh, yes, you are.

Well, in certain places, like at a music festival with loads of middle-aged guys with beards, then

I can't move.

Oh, gosh.

Like,

I went to a pulp show.

Pulp were playing some shows this year, and I went to one at the Hammersmith Labatts, McDonald's, Odeon Apollo, whatever it is now.

And I went with a friend of mine, old friend.

And like every two minutes, someone was coming up to me and getting a selfie or whatever.

And my friend was like, Holy shit, your life is totally unsustainable.

This is ridiculous.

He said it was like, must be hell.

I was like, no, I mean, A, it was fun and everyone was really nice.

B, that's not normally what happens.

It was because I was seeing pulp and there was loads of people of a similar age with similar interests who used to listen to six music when I was on there, maybe.

You know what I mean?

So that was the core of the Dr.

Buckles

Appreciation Society was there.

But outside of that, no one, you know,

it's fine.

But not what about in the

90s when you just

night TV on Channel 4.

You know what I mean?

It was entirely manageable.

And

it's like the perfect version of fame because the only people that recognize me are generally really nice and genuinely into what I do.

And they're not just sort of casually like, oh, yeah, it's you, it's you, it's the thing.

You know,

that's where it gets dangerous.

Yeah, yeah.

Is when people recognize you, but they're not invested in you.

You know what I mean?

Yes, yeah.

And they don't necessarily care about everything you do.

They're just like, oh, yeah, you're the thing.

And

you're a two-dimensional person.

You're just someone on TV or whatever.

Yeah.

But imagine having

the sort of level of fame of like Britney Spears or Justin Bieber and the the amount of trolls that they must have to deal with.

I mean, you've got to have such thick skin.

That's why I could never go to LA or anything like that because it's meant to be ruthless out there and casting directors.

And oh, I just crumble to dust.

Hmm.

Awful.

But you probably will have the opportunity or the invitations to go out there at some point and work with other people that you're interested in and want to work with.

So how are you going to manage that phase of your career when

these opportunities keep coming and when your profile continues to rise?

Oh, God,

but at that point, I would have done something to get myself cancelled, I think.

For sure.

Probably I might say something on the podcast.

I want you to stay.

I hope that you won't go away.

If I have upset you with something I said, cheer up, cause one day I'll be dead.

Do you follow what's going on in the music world?

I don't, and I should do, because I'm doing Never Mind the Buzzcocks.

You should.

That's something we have in common.

The association with Nevermind the Buzzcocks.

Mine is mild.

I've been on a couple of times.

I hosted an episode back in the day.

Oh, wow.

But that was one of the first big panel shows that I ever went on.

When Mark Lamar was hosting it.

When Mark Lamarr was hosting it.

Wow.

2001, 2001, I think I went on there.

And Phil Jupiters was my team captain, and Sean Hughes was on the other team.

Poor old Sean.

But

he was there back in the day.

He teased me quite a lot that day

because Mid Yuer was on the team with me of Ultravox.

Yes.

And one of the architects of Live Aid, of course, along with Bob Geldoff.

I loved Midge U.

I loved Ultravox.

So it was so exciting for me to be on a team with him.

But the experience of actually doing the show, like later on, Sean Hughes just came up to me and said,

oh, have you finished sucking up to Midsieu yet?

And that was like the whole thing that day.

That was the tone of it.

Sean was much softer and sweeter in a lot of ways than Mark Lamar.

He was very hard-edged.

Oh, God, yes.

And I just wasn't prepared for that at all.

Oh, that would have completely broken me.

Yeah.

I would have been back in rehab after that if I'd had that experience.

I found it tough.

I mean that that lineup was a real, I mean you were just thrown to the lions.

Yeah that was a different type of TV in those days.

It was much more gladiatorial and much more like

sort of stand-up used to be, I think, in the UK.

Really competitive.

Yeah, competitive and take no prisoners and a lot of teasing that was just right on the edge of bullying.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's like, well, if you can't handle it, then don't do it but i just didn't realize that it was going to be like that no but what's it like now what's how is it for you oh it's lovely i mean i'm so lucky because i've got greg and jamali and noel and that it's like having sort of three older brothers that they're so lovely and i sort of feel like i've found my place which is i do what the boys don't do which is make sure the guests have got something to drink or make sure they know where the toilets are.

I would have been brilliant as a team captain for you.

I would have really looked after you.

Yeah.

Because boys don't do that.

The boys definitely don't.

Phil Jupiters was nice, I'd like to know.

Oh, that's nice.

He was very nice.

But yeah, no, I feel like I've sort of, I just love it.

It's great.

Do you know what's annoying is

like writing something like Abu, which will take like a whole year to write and all blood, sweat and tears, pays like

a tenth of what I get for like two weeks filming.

You've shut your so that you've you've created an acronym out of it.

Oh, yeah.

Well, what?

Aboo, yeah.

That's terrible.

Am I being unreasonable?

Yeah.

Oh, gosh.

But yeah, it's mad, isn't it?

Yes.

Well, that's always the way.

Yeah, the stuff that you really...

I think that's why the money is better on those shows because it is painful a lot of the time.

Do you know what I mean?

Definitely, because not everyone can go on those shows and do it well.

So they splash.

It's a bit like sex work.

They splash the money around.

It's a little bit like sex work in some ways.

I mean, you are vulnerable.

So vulnerable.

Oh, God.

But

I do love it.

Yeah.

But it's hard.

I mean, everybody sort of.

Whoever.

No, we've had some brilliant people.

I mean, we had Suggs.

Suggs.

And I read that you met Suggs originally.

Where?

I met him at They Might Be Giants concert.

Right.

Do you remember them?

Of course.

I loved them.

Oh, my God.

Were you a fan?

Did you go?

Do you go to the Apollo?

Was it the Apollo?

No, it was the Shepherd's Bush.

That was years ago.

That would have been about

2000, 2001.

I don't think I saw them then.

I saw them before then

in the man, in the late 80s, I think.

Was that is that possible?

Yeah, late 80s, early 90s.

I saw them

in Kentish town and they were

really, really great.

Yeah.

When the Malcolm in the Middle song came on, everybody just went nuts.

Right.

Nuts.

So Suggs was seeing they might be giants.

Yeah.

And he was, yeah.

And we'd got, I'd gone with my uncle and my cousin.

And, yeah, I met him very briefly.

I can't even remember.

I think I just said, oh, I was a big fan.

And then, so there was that.

Who else?

We've had Gregory Porter on, who was brilliant.

Yeah.

Sean Ryder.

Sean Ryder.

Oh, my God.

Amazing.

He's.

Being sat in between him and Bez was like being in an art installation.

That was incredible because he believes in reptilians, you know, all the David Ike.

Oh, he's big into his kind of cropper conspiracy theories.

Really, really into it.

So, having to that was slightly stressful.

Having to record and then, during the breaks, be in between both of them talking about reptilians was unbelievably stressful.

They're both into it, are they?

Really into it, yeah.

I mean, it's mental, it's it's completely mad.

Yeah, uh, so who else did we have?

Oh, Chesney Hawke, Chesney, amazing.

So, he's got his greatest hits album, right?

Yeah, and 13 of the songs songs are just different remixes of The One and Only.

Yes.

And

Greg pointed this out, and he got very quite cross about it.

He said that there are very different versions of the song.

I mean, it's just mad.

That was mad.

And was he okay or did it get uncomfortable?

No, a little bit, but then it was fine.

Yeah.

Loved, really, he's so sweet.

And his son came to support him.

It was just so proud of his debt.

It just, oh, it was so lovely.

Biscuits, mm-hmm.

I am in love with you.

I'll dip you in my tea.

But pull you out before you fall apart.

I won't abandon you.

Biscuits, biscuits.

Mm-hmm.

Mice.

Right, I'm going to ask you a brace of more general questions as we move into our final section of the conversation.

Let's see.

Oh, I was going to ask you about your relationship with on-screen sex and writing about sex.

Yes, right.

Because obviously there's aspects of sex that are dealt with in rain dogs.

Yes.

But you don't have to do anything too explicit there, do you?

Have you ever done a sex scene?

Yeah, a sex scene, but with you get one of the,

you know, like a, what are they called?

Intimacy coach.

Okay, yeah.

Which is weird.

Which is so weird.

what do they do then so you and the person who you've got to have a sex scene with will go into like a rehearsal room with an intimacy coach and you have to first of all you've got to point it like where you're comfortable with being touched when you're where you're not comfortable being touched

which even is just oh god i mean it's awful then what you do is you have a sort of weird balloon you know like one of those gimbals

yeah but with think of like half of the air being taken out of of it and then you basically have to put that in between your groin and then just sort of pretend to fornicate oh i see

so that it forms a barrier so it forms a barrier so if somebody because it i suppose people can get bonus can't they if they're i mean you would think so that you can't feel anything should that happen right unexpectedly

that's weird isn't it no i mean it's it's kind of a good idea i suppose but i have heard of some people that will say no no, we want to go quite method with this.

Yeah, let's go full bonus.

We'll actually shag.

It's weird, isn't it?

It's like, what's the line between porn and art?

Oh, and method and all of that stuff.

Yeah.

I remember there was a guy at drama school who, for a part, this is so ridiculous, had to be homeless.

And he basically slept for three days by the steps of

Rada at Cheney Street.

That's you've just been uncomfortable for three days.

These people are stupid.

I don't, I mean, I don't see method and all that.

I think it's bollocks, isn't it?

Yes.

I mean, I suppose there's, it's useful to

have first-hand experience of something that you're portraying, I suppose.

But to go to that extreme, to actually have sex on, I mean, then you're just...

You're just having sex.

I mean, there's no watch that you are just having sex.

I know.

I do think that that is a weird thing because it's like a, you know, it's a special thing, sex, isn't it?

Oh, it is.

Yeah.

Special thing.

And

I think it must be tough for your relationships thereafter.

Do you know what I mean?

So weird.

But it's tough anyway.

I mean, it will never not be awkward to do any sort of sex.

I don't care what anybody says.

It's really, really uncomfortable when you've got loads of people.

I mean, I've never questioned my sex noises until I've had to do it on screen because I think, God, what do I do during sex do I make that sound yeah

I mean

I'm faking it at home I may as well fake it here but it's weird isn't it yeah and well I was going to ask as well like have you written sex scenes

yeah I mean I've written I tell you what's really weird is having to write I mean because my dad played

my dad Kerry's dad in this country and he was a bit of a pervert so having to write sort of monologues about his sexual escapades was was great for the character but weird because i'm writing it for my dad yeah

uh

but yeah i've written a sex scene but it was more sort of comedy than anything so it was it wasn't really i mean this is really funny my grandfather was a gp and also wrote books and wrote really pornographic books about a gp he didn't even change his name from bob dr bob and he as a teenager he was met i mean he's dead now thank fuck but he used to make us read his books which were all about him just getting fellacio I mean it's just insane

but it was just him his sexual fantasies that he and there were vanity books as well so he had them self-published I mean it's just awful your parents saying oh just as embarrassing I mean he'd give them to everybody at Christmas he'd give out his books I mean he was the biggest narcissist you've ever met in your life holy I know

to the point where he moved to Tavistock and he said to me come and look at this.

And in the local paper was in the letters column said, isn't it lovely to know that we've got local writer that's moved to Taverstock?

And I said, oh, who's wrote that?

And he said, I did.

He sent a letter into his own local paper.

But anyway, talking about, I suppose it is, well, like the 50 Shades and all that and stuff.

That was a fantasy, wasn't it?

Yeah, I guess so.

I just think that it's

giving so much away.

It's so weird, sex, isn't it?

Because obviously most of us do it and

it is a part of most of our lives.

And it's a really important part.

Yeah, it really is.

And yet it's kept totally separate for most people.

Yes.

From the rest of their lives.

And you can't...

Because it's not just about what you feel comfortable discussing.

Yes.

But then you've been...

together for 22 years.

So, I mean, do you get what I mean?

So everybody's going to know that it's about about your wife.

Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it?

Well, it might have been something I saw on the internet.

And then they're going to say, well, he's got a bloody wife.

Why is he writing this stuff that he saw on it?

Why is he looking at the internet?

Finally,

what

never fails to cheer you up?

I'll give you some of my examples.

I did a list on the train of some of the things that pretty much always cheer me up.

Listening to a song by the Doobie Brothers called Another Park, Another Sunday.

That's a good one.

Nice.

I love watching my children do what they're good at, seeing my daughter play netball, my son playing the piano, the other son strumming his guitar in his bedroom.

Those sounds always make me happy.

Oh, lovely.

Zoom call with my friend Garth.

That always cheers me up.

Tim Key.

Oh, yes.

I love him.

Gosh, I love him.

He's pretty good.

He's superb.

Saucy Texts from my wife.

Oh, yes.

Yeah, I can see that.

Very good.

Unexpected saucy texts.

Unexpected.

Yeah, that works pretty well for me.

How about you?

Oh, God.

Rain on a caravan roof.

There's nothing like that sound.

The episode of Tales of the Unexpected with Toya Wilcox.

Wow, I don't know if I've seen that one.

Oh, my God.

Watch it.

It's absolutely.

the twist in the end is so ridiculous.

It's fabulous.

Blue Marigold.

Blue Marigold, yeah.

That really cheers me up.

Is that on YouTube?

That's on, yes, that's on YouTube.

What else?

Do you know

looking up pictures of old Argos catalogues?

Wow, that's very specific.

Yeah.

From like 94, 95.

Yeah, what are the enjoyable things in there?

Just Just the products or the layouts?

It's definitely the layout and how the price, the prices on things.

Yeah, that makes me happy.

Yeah, that's about it, man.

That's about it.

Wait.

This is a Squarespace advert.

Do you want to build a website?

Yes.

I will tell you how.

Visit squarespace.com/slash Buxton.

Now, start a free trial today, and in minutes, you will say, My website dreams are finally coming true.

Just tell Squarespace what you want to do.

They'll suggest some templates that might be right for you.

Drag in pictures and text ads and videos.

And next thing you know, your website will be done.

Visit squarespace.com/slash Buxton today.

Start your free trial and have yourself a play.

And when you have decided that you're ready to pay, type in the offer code Buxton.

Why?

Because you'll save 10% if it's your first purchase of a website or domain.

Oh, 10%!

That's my favorite percent.

Thank you, Squarespace.

Continue.

Marvelous, super, so glad you could join us.

Hey, welcome back, podcasts.

That was Daisy Mae Cooper.

Very nice to talk to Daisy, and I'm grateful to her for giving up her time time to waffle with me.

I put a link in the description of today's podcast to that episode of Tales of the Unexpected that Daisy mentioned at the end there.

Blue Marigold, it's called, from 1982.

And as Daisy said,

it stars the musician Toya, musician and actor, Toya, she plays Myra, known as Marigold, a model who is the face of an advertising campaign, but her life is falling apart.

I'm quoting now from a synopsis left by an IMDb user.

She spends some time in a psychiatric hospital, and when she's discharged, she goes to live with her sister and runs into those whom she blames for her problems.

That's basically the deal.

It's quite a

strange time capsule of an episode.

It was produced in the early 80s and feels very early 80s.

It's set in the 60s, at least the beginning part is.

That feels less authentic, but the 80s stuff is very

authentically grimy.

You forget that 1982 was still not what we think of as the more kind of neon-coloured

aspirational 80s.

It was still really

like the 70s.

And you get a feel of that by watching this Tales of the Unexpected episode.

Some of the performances are also quite eccentric, which perhaps is why it cheers Daisy up so much.

Toya certainly doesn't hold back, but there's also another musician in the cast, musician, actor, and EastEnders writer, Billy Hammond, who plays Marigold's sexy, no, not sexy, sexist bastard manager, Brian.

It's a very entertaining portrayal.

So there's a link to that.

Now, here is a message that I received from Simon Donald, he of Viz magazine fame and stand-up comedy.

And he is a listener to the podcast.

But Simon sent me this nice message.

I was listening to your recent podcast with Louis Peru, that is the live one that I put out.

earlier this year

and Was taken that neither of you were aware of the discovery of the phenomenon behind spontaneous human combustion.

It was one of the things that we mentioned in passing when we were having our chat at King's Place for the podcast festival back in 2022.

And it was something that people of our generation used to read a lot about in annuals about the unexplained, alongside chapters on Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, UFOs, that kind of thing.

There would always be a chapter on spontaneous human combustion.

A grainy black and white photograph of

a room, a charred room,

and a chair with just a pile of ashes around it and maybe a foot poking out of the ashes.

It was macabre.

Anyway, Louis and I were discussing whether spontaneous human combustion was a thing.

I think I was poo-pooing the idea heavily.

Simon points out that studies have been done into spontaneous human combustion and generally it's been established that people involved are often elderly, may have other comorbidities, perhaps they have a heart condition, etc.

So I think the implication is that sometimes they will die and if they are sitting close to an open fire or another intense heat source or maybe they're smoking and the cigarette falls on them

then that can cause a fire and says Simon the scientists concluded that the people had all died prior to very slowly combusting the body fat acting like a candle so the fire was at all times quite localized hence limbs slippers etc remaining completely intact after the combustion came to a halt.

It's one of those things where the facts once understood are are just as fascinating as all the theories.

Hope you're well, Simon Donald.

Thanks Simon.

So I think that's sort of what I thought it was.

What isn't a thing I don't think is people just for no reason bursting into flames.

Although some people believe that that is a thing and that it's the fault of things like ball lightning or poltergeists.

I'm not one of those people.

Here's another message, more serious message, although combusting is, I suppose, serious.

This is from Anne-Marie Solsby, who got in touch to say, you recently mentioned about your lack of information regarding your environmental impact in the podcast episode with Louis.

Yeah, me and Louis were talking a bit about recycling angst.

Anne-Marie says, as a sustainability coach and carbon literacy trainer, I can answer your questions.

One, the impact of washing recycling through the dishwasher, which is something that Louis said he did.

He puts yogurt pots and packaging in the dishwasher along with the plates.

Anne-Marie says, so the answer to nearly every question I get asked is, it depends.

The number one request about recycling from local councils is not to put food in the recycling bin.

Making sure there is no food in the recycled items is a good idea, and if you put them through the dishwasher, it's better than washing them by hand.

However, running the dishwasher just to clean the recycling is not a good idea.

It's also optimum to be running the dishwasher using renewable energy, either self-generated or reputably bought.

Don't know if that's the case with Louie.

I'm sure it is.

Two, is my plastic being recycled or not?

That's something I was complaining to Louis about.

I just said, even with councils that do allow you to put plastic packaging in the recycling.

I just wonder what's actually happening to it and whether it doesn't just end up in landfill.

Anne-Marie says, great question, and yes, it depends.

We have a massive problem with plastic.

There are seven different types of plastic.

Not all of these are physically recyclable into something else, which is the first problem.

Second problem is that if it's a type that can be recycled, there isn't that much it can be recycled into, and it can only be recycled a very small number of times, unlike glass or aluminium which can be recycled many many times.

On top of that not everyone recycles and also some councils have been shipping their waste to other countries which is another huge problem in itself.

Finally plastic never decomposes or goes away it just gets smaller and smaller.

The question therefore should be can I reduce my plastic?

This then removes all of the problems about recycling the plastic.

So I mean mean, well, that's down to the manufacturers then

and people trying to find alternatives to plastic packaging, which people are doing gradually, but it still seems crazy that there is so much of it.

Anne-Marie continues addressing another thing I mentioned in my conversation with Louis.

The extent to which I am offsetting my badness by cycling.

Yes, says Anne-Marie, reducing your badness, more often called a carbon footprint, by cycling is a great way to minimize your impact.

however personal transport is only around 15 percent of our carbon footprint depending on how much you drive and what you drive so we also need to consider how to reduce the rest of the badness i.e the other 85 percent this can be most easily achieved by switching to a renewable energy source at home reducing meat and dairy including rosy swapping any gas slash oil to a heat pump or alternative heating system, consulting a financial advisor to move to a more ethical pension provider and also switching to a non-fossil fuel funding banking provider.

Voting, whether local or national, is also important.

However, the problem with relying solely on carbon footprints is that they don't provide a complete picture of our individual impact/slash badness on climate change.

Encouraging eco-minded individuals to use their carbon footprints as the sole guide for combating climate change can lead to a focus on easily quantifiable low-impact individual actions like recycling or turning off lights.

While these actions are essential, they might overshadow broader and more impactful efforts such as lobbying local politicians or addressing wasteful practices at work.

The concept of a climate shadow offers a more comprehensive understanding.

I don't know if I like the idea of the climate shadow.

I'm already freaked out about it enough.

But Anne-Marie continues: A climate shadow comprises three parts.

Consumption, equivalent to the carbon footprint, choices such as family size, pets and job, and mindset.

The mindset is perhaps the most crucial aspect.

It involves assessing how much attention is dedicated to climate change.

How many hours are devoted to climate action compared to other activities?

To truly understand your impact on the planet, it's essential to look beyond your carbon footprint and examine your climate shadow.

I hope these answers have provided some clarification and will be useful.

Looking forward to the George Monbiot episode.

Best, Anne-Marie.

Thank you very much, Anne-Marie, for getting in touch.

I appreciate that.

My conversation with George Monbiot will be one of the episodes that comes out sometime before Christmas, though I'm not sure exactly when.

Thanks once again to Daisy May Cooper.

Thanks to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support and conversation editing.

Thank you, Seamus.

Much appreciated.

Thanks to all at ACAST for their help with the podcast.

Thank you to Helen Green.

She does the artwork.

There's a link to her page of beautiful illustration in the description.

But thanks most of all to you.

I've got no idea how many people listen to a whole episode of the podcast, but I get messages every now and again from people saying, oh, I always listen.

regardless of the guest

and I listen right the way through to the end and obviously, that's kind of my dream listener that people will engage with the podcast like that.

And I appreciate that it's quite an eccentric proposition in some ways.

You know, I had quite a silly conversation with Daisy May Cooper that did touch on a couple of serious things, I suppose.

And then I'm reading out a message about human combustion and a more serious message about the climate and recycling.

So, you know, I guess it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, is it?

But I appreciate you having the tea.

And if it's okay with you, I'm going to give you a hug.

If it's not okay, then probably now's the time to stop listening.

Come here.

Good to see you.

I'll just high-five your climate shadow.

All right, till next time,

go easy.

Take care.

I love you.

Bye!

Like and subscribe.

Like and subscribe.

Like and subscribe.

Please like and subscribe.

Give me like a smile and a thumbs up.

I take a pat when a button's up.

Give me like a smile and a thumbs up.

I take a pat when it bums up.

Like and subscribe.

Like and subscribe.

Like and subscribe.

Please like and and subscribe.

Give me the smile and a thumbs up.

Nice to pat when the buttons up.

Give me the smile and a thumbs up.

Nice button for me buttons up.

Please like and subscribe.

Like and subscribe.

Like and subscribe.

Please like and subscribe.

Give me the smile and a thumbs up.