EP.257 - BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin.

Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening.

I took my microphone and found some human folk.

Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke.

My name is Ad Buxton, I'm a man.

I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan.

Hey,

how are you doing, podcats?

It's Adam Buxton here, reporting to you from a crunchy Norfolk farm track at the end of the first week of September 2025.

It's a beautiful, balmy afternoon out here in East Angular,

and I'm walking with my best dog friend, Rose.

Say hello, Rosie.

Just saying hello with breath this week.

She's in quite a good mood today.

Didn't seem overly resistant to the idea of a walk, and why would she?

It's a lovely afternoon.

I'm glad to say that in the last few weeks, the quivering in the flanks that used to set in at the mere mention of a walk has subsided, and Rosie just seems altogether a bit more chill, which is nice.

So that's Rosie news.

She's doing well.

Aren't you, Doclets?

Please don't patronize me.

I apologize.

Ooh, it's a nice warm breeze I'm getting here.

I'm wearing shorts.

Now look, before I tell you a bit about my guest for this week's conversational ramble, I would like to give a shout out for a future guest.

I'm going to be talking to Eric Idle of Monty Python, who, apart from everything he's achieved in TV and film and the theatre, is of course one of the all-time great writers of funny songs that you actually want to to listen to more than once.

There's the galaxy song, the philosopher's song, the penis song, and of course, always look on the bright side of life, which gives its name to Eric's forthcoming live tour of the UK.

Kicking off in Birmingham on the 10th of September and then heading to Brighton, Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Bournemouth, ending up in London on the 27th of September 2025.

You can expect, according to the poster, an evening of comedy, music, philosophy, and one fart joke.

Eric was on Great Form when I spoke to him a couple of months ago, so grab a ticket now at ericidle.com or via bookingsdirect.com.

Okay, now let me tell you a bit about podcast number 257, which features a rambling conversation with English actor Benedict Timothy Carlton Cumberbatch.

Here's a very cursory selection of Cumberfacts for you.

Born in 1976, that's the year the Queen pulled down her nicks, as we all know.

I won't tell you what she did next, but it was pretty shocking.

Benedict is the son of successful theatre and TV actors Wanda Ventham and Timothy Carlton.

He was sent to boarding school at a young age, like me, although we didn't talk about that.

For a change.

After studying drama in Manchester and getting his MA in classical acting at Lambda, the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art, Benedict spent the latter half of the 2000s becoming increasingly celebrated for his theatre work.

But the role that brought him into the wider public consciousness and kept him occupied for much of the 2010s was as the brilliant but abrasive detective Sherlock Holmes in the BBC series Sherlock, created by Stephen Moffat and Mark Gatis.

The huge success of that portrayal no doubt contributed to his award of a CBE in 2015 for services to the performing arts and to charity.

But by then he had also appeared in films including Starter for 10, Atonement, the 2011 adaptation of Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy, and Steven Spielberg's War Horse.

His first Oscar nomination was for playing computer scientist and cryptologist Alan Turing in 2014's The Imitation Game.

And he was nominated again in 2021 for his portrayal of a charismatic but cruel rancher in 1920s Montana in Jane Campion's adaptation of Thomas Savage's 1967 novel, The Power of the Dog.

And of course, you know Benedict as Dr.

Stephen Strange in one of my favorite Marvel movies, Doctor Strange.

More recently, Benedict appeared in the film adaptation of Max Porter's novella, Grief is the Thing with Feathers, which blends fantasy and horror elements in a story about a father losing his wife.

The film is the dramatic debut of British director Dylan Southern, who has previously directed excellent music docs about Blur L C D sound system and the New York City music scene of the early 2000s.

That was called Meet Me in the Bathroom.

Really enjoyed that.

The thing with feathers though is due for release in the UK at the end of October this year.

My conversation with Benedict took place a few weeks ago in late June in a big room in a fancy hotel down the road from Trafalgar Square in central London, where Benedict was doing several days of interviews to promote The Roses, just released as I Speak in UK cinemas, a twisted comedy drama in which a married couple's relationship implodes crazily following the sudden realignment of their parental and professional roles.

The film is directed by Jay Roach, the helmsman of Meet the Parents and Austin Powers, and the screenplay is by Tony McNamara.

He wrote The Favorite and Poor Things, directed by Jorgos Lanthemos.

The Roses is based on the 1981 book The War of the Roses by American author Warren Adler.

That was previously adapted in 1989 by Danny DeVito, who cast Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglas in the central roles.

In this reimagining, Benedict stars as architect Theo Rose alongside Olivia Coleman.

She plays Theo's wife Ivy Rose, who at the midpoint in her life suddenly finds professional success as a chef.

Theo and Ivy's friends, couples who are dysfunctional in their own ways, are played by SNL stars Kate McKinnon and Andy Sandberg, as well as the excellent Zoe Chow and one of my comedy heroes, Jamie Dimitriu.

Elsewhere, the cast includes Alison Janney, Sunita Manny, and Doctor Who star Nkuti Gutwa.

Before meeting Benedict, I had received an email from the film company that, as is often the case with promotional interviews, made it clear that questions should pertain to the film and should not be of a personal nature or in reference to gossip, politics, or other projects.

Nevertheless, Benedict gave me a bit of latitude and also as well as The Roses, we talked about his appearances on Saturday Night Live,

the challenge of balancing a successful career with married life and young children, whether couples therapy works, why actors lose their shit on film sets, and whether I should retire my Christian Bale on-set meltdown jingle.

But we began by talking about Benedict's 2021 appearance on Mark Maron's podcast, WTF, on which they had discussed the power of the dog, which at the time had just been released.

And things at one point got a little bit tense.

Only a tiny bit though, because of comments that Benedict's co-star Jesse Plemons had made about the character that Benedict played.

Well, we actors get very protective of our characters, don't we, Doglegs?

I wouldn't know.

Yes, you would, because I love you.

I love you, Doglegs.

Anyway, I'll be back at the end with a couple of recommendations for you, but right now, with Benedict Cumberbatch, here we go.

Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat.

We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that.

Come on, let's chew the fat and have a ramble chat.

Post on your conversation coat, and find your talking hat.

La la

la la la la la la

la la la la la

How was Marin going on there?

He was extraordinary.

I didn't know quite what a thing it was, right?

I mean, I knew him, and I hadn't listened much to the podcast at the time.

And I knew him from his various great performances in various films.

Anyway, I ended up being quite combative, and I think we had a bit of a

little bit.

You were talking about the year of the dog.

We were talking about something.

No, that's a Chinese thing.

We were talking about the power of the dog.

The power of the dog.

It was one of the dogs.

It might have been in the year of the dog.

It was one of the big dog films.

Yes.

How to train your dog.

I think

it was something either Jesse had said about his character knowing something about my character.

I think that was it, actually.

And it scarred deep, I can remember it that quickly.

And I was immediately like, no, no, no, no, he can't say that.

And it just sort of turned into a thing.

And I was like, why don't I just waste a bit of Marin

classic time just kind of arguing a point that

it was a good chat.

You weren't genuinely riled, though, were you?

Or were you?

No, no, no.

I think I I just got a little bit on my higher horse.

I do that sometimes with characters that I feel very affiliated with or processes or whatever.

And it's sort of like, no, Ben, you were in your own world doing that.

So someone else has also a world.

It's a classic thing we do in life as well.

It's just thinking, but it's all about my story, rather than understanding that it has to be bridge building and other people's stories as well.

I think it was just a very immersive thing for me, and I was quite protective of where I thought things were at.

But guess what?

Another actor had a different idea.

And it worked.

It all works on screen.

So it's nice, it's nice to have a spicy, non-sanitized conversation.

I think there are too few of those.

I agree, agree, agree, agree.

It's not just sort of slapping platitudes, it was it was there was some conversation, there was some argument or dialogue, at least.

Yeah, but I do remember him being really witty and really funny and dry and thinking, I've got to listen to more of these things I've just done sort of badly out of time.

But he's good, he's great.

How was SNL?

The second time round,

Really enjoyable.

First time round, mastermind, plus a coffee enema, and just your naked Times Square.

It's just so you're you're so exhausted because you do the pre-records until someone's like, I think my wrapped up like three in the morning.

And then you're like, you're ready to go at a sort of, you know, showtime, like a seven or eight o'clock kind of showtime.

They go, no, we don't, we don't start this shit until 11.30 at night.

It's really, really, really exhausting.

So you kind of go in going, I should be in bed, you know, and then you have this absurd amount of adrenaline as well.

It's a really horrible state to be in first time around.

Second time around, you just breathe a bit more.

You get a little, well, I acclimatise myself to doing things later in the day, you know, and

they knew me.

Some of the ones that were there last time I did it were there this time and wrote a little bit more around me.

Do you have techniques for because I can imagine that even you as someone who presumably has overcome many of your performance nerves and has all sorts of techniques for doing so, suddenly you find yourself in an unfamiliar environment where it's just going like SNL.

No, I'm just wondering how, like, what actual tech, do you have actual techniques in those situations or are you just always styling it?

I think the first time around you have to just you have to learn experientially, is that the word?

But you just have to do it.

And it's always exciting when you have a new challenge in our world and it's rare.

And so I kind of embrace that.

I'm kind of like, I like being a bit scared.

Sometimes I think I like it too much than I actually do.

And then I get to actually doing it going, why am I putting myself and my body through this?

Because it is, it's a lot.

It taxes you.

Definitely a few grey or missing hairs.

And then you kind of go, okay, I've kind of got this.

And then it becomes fun.

But yeah, no, I like the challenge.

I love the challenge of it.

And it's such an institution over there.

And I've only ever seen bits of it.

You know, it's not something that we have broadcast life yet for obvious reasons.

But you catch it, I think it's on Comedy Central now, I think.

Or you get little bits of, well, most of the shows now are on YouTube.

But it's not inherently part of our culture like it is over there.

It's a really big deal.

And it felt like a huge honor to be asked.

And I'm often flattered into doing things that are deeply uncomfortable because people tell me it's a huge honor.

And I get why sometimes, sometimes not.

But I like to give it a go.

And I've always been a bit like that.

And it's not fearlessness, it's sort of foolhardiness and wanting to be...

put in a place where I have to think outside of the usual pattern, which is probably where I go a bit crazy at the end of a breast junket because it's just, it's very, very sort of Groundhog day-ish.

Was that the first time, speaking of SNL, that you had met Kate McKinnon?

That was the first time, yeah.

Right.

And she was apparently a big fan of Sherlock.

And I still find it difficult being around her.

I'm so in awe of what she does.

Yeah, she's

so off the wall.

And

you can have an ordinary conversation, not to dispel any

show business, but she's wonderful.

She's wonderful.

I still, though, get a bit nervous around her.

We're going to jump into the middle of the roses by discussing a moment with Kate McKinnon and then we'll pull focus and talk about the wider implications of the roses and what it's all about.

But there is a moment in

the listeners don't know how you just described all of that with your hands and gesticulated landed an aeroplane with those gestures.

It was amazing.

Trump of podcasting with the picture.

No, you didn't.

No, that would be just like this.

Just little gestures.

Tiny gestures.

Yeah, how is your Trump impression?

I think, like, everybody, it's okay, but it's not good.

It's sad.

It's sad.

Is it?

It's pathetic.

It's pathetic.

It's very bad.

Benedict,

very bad.

Very, very bad.

He's sad, this guy.

British guy.

Very disappointing.

He's so everywhere that everyone, even people who don't do impersonations, have got something.

It's just, he's everywhere, isn't it?

Yeah, it's just terrible.

How about Eddie Redmain?

Can you do a good Redmain?

I could try.

I don't know.

Eddie, I don't.

I feel bad about this because he's a friend of mine.

I really like him.

Have you seen him?

He goes like like this every now and again.

Have you seen him in Jupiter Rising?

No.

Oh, that is a film and a half.

I mean,

I'm being sincere.

That is a fun film to watch.

Is that Wachowski's?

Yeah, yeah.

It's completely unhinged.

And his performance in it

is quite a thing.

He's fucking amazing.

Have you seen The Good Nurse?

No.

It's a phenomenal performance, and he is just...

He's a friend.

We got set up as rivals during a year that we were both nominated for Oscars, which we thought was hilarious because we're friends and because we both love each other's work and know each other and our wives are it's just nuts it's silly yeah and also all that stuff is silly and clearly he was extraordinary so how can i begrudge him a friend who was exceptional give it to him sure

well uh go and watch jupiter rising and then come back to me okay it's very good it's an incredible performance from an extraordinary actor i mean he literally delivers his lines like this and he's completely mad So what was I saying before my oh yes Kate McKinnon in the film there is a scene in which her character is sort of lusting after yours.

There's a motif.

Well there's several scenes yeah that she's she's a friend of you and Olivia Coleman's character and she is lusting after you and at one point she hangs on to you and sort of frots

for quite a while like really frotting away and we're seeing it from every angle and she's sort of quivering quivering with orgasmic joy and I was thinking what was that like did you have to have an intimacy coordinator

no we fucking should have done though my leg will never recover um no it was it was extraordinary I mean the hardest thing with her is just not to laugh and you know she was always apologizing usually afterwards but she was also I was aware that it was supposed to be a scene where she hugs for an inappropriately long time

that's sort of the button of the of the moment and as it were And then she did this sort of slow frot.

That's the other thing about it.

It's very slow, a slow grind with a quiver, an increasing quiver at the end.

I mean, it was.

It was sort of sexy.

It was very sexual.

But when we got to the dinner scene, which is a later moment than the one we're talking about, it's this extraordinary dinner table scene where the couple are really starting to throw some pretty awful, nasty, barbed, hurtful comments at each other.

And the guests are trying to understand whether it's real or just ironic or funny.

The guests are all American.

And they're all American.

And they try to have a go at it.

And it's really awful.

It's just horrible.

It's a really funny scene.

It's a very funny scene.

But underneath it, there's this kind of core of us really destroying each other.

At one point, Kate McKinnon's character tries to empathise with Ivy, Olivia's character, and goes, I know just what you're feeling, babe, about her two children going to college too early, in her opinion.

And she gives these examples, and there's only one, obviously, in the film, but it was just unbearable, partly because this great, great talent of comedy of our age, she'd start on a line of a new idea and then

she'd stop and start laughing at what was coming towards her.

And that was it.

We're like, well, we're not going to last.

Because she's very, she doesn't crack when she's in one.

She just does it.

But my God,

it was a very fun day at work being right in the kind of.

They're trying to do sort of Jesse Armstrong succession style British put-down very good.

And Tony McNamara as well.

He's very good at it as well.

That's that Zoe, Zoe Chan, and Jamie Dimitriu.

They're the couple who are trying it out.

Yeah.

The other architect.

And

Jamie Dimitriu's character can't really do it and is very hurt by the things that are thrown at him.

And she's like, what does she say?

She said,

she says, cry like a bitch, like you did when her dad died, asshole.

And she keeps going.

He's just like,

it sort of traumatizes everyone.

And Andy Sandman's going, what the fuck?

And I'm looking at my wife going, this is the atmosphere that you helped create, darling.

Thanks so much.

It's a horrible but very, very funny scene.

So can you I will set it up in the introduction, but can you tell me briefly what it's about?

The film is about a couple who fall in love in a sort of very fast way.

They're both disenheartened with England.

They've reached sort of stalemates in their careers.

They're childless.

They're of an age.

They think, well, let's just go to America.

And they kind of do.

And you cut to 10 years later, they've got the two kids in the house and his work's going well and she's still being brilliant at what she does as a chef but only at home.

He gets her prize, the prize money he gives to her to start a restaurant so that she can wow the world instead of three two kids, well three including her husband, at home with these amazing kind of dessert creations and food of iconic status.

And

his career is going great.

Garnes, the thing he got an award for is opening and there's a disaster with the building that basically has him cancelled as an architect and he has to reorientate his life and does so around his children and family and devotes himself to staying at home whilst her career just ascends and it's really the story of a couple who love each other very much but just start growing apart and the resentment that creeps in and the lack of communication or seeing each other or paying attention to one another slowly starts to corrode their love at certain points and then they come back together with humour and love and understanding and then it really gets pretty diabolical towards the end.

And this is based on the War of the Roses.

Right, it's a so-called reimagining.

So it doesn't stick exactly to all the beats of that Danny DeVito film.

No, not at all.

And you've seen the DeVito film.

Yes, yes.

And it was sort of iconic.

Everything they did in that era, I was enthralled by.

1989, I think it was.

1989, indeed.

And was it after Romancing the Stone and Jewel and the?

I think it was.

Maybe.

But those two just had me.

Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglas.

I remember seeing it at the time.

So I would have been 19 or 20.

Yeah, I was a bit younger.

What did you make of it at Because I remember thinking, I don't know if I like this.

It was too much.

Well, I don't think I was at a sensitive enough age.

I just thought, whoa,

she just crushed his car.

Not with an American accent, but

it's peeing in the soup.

It just seemed extraordinary.

And I remembered it being funny because I watched it before we made ours.

I was like, fucking hell, this is incredibly bleak.

And that final touch, admittedly brave filmmaking, I suppose, a bold choice where he reaches across for one moment of reconciliation as they're dying.

Yeah.

She brushes his hand away.

I don't find that funny.

I find that really bleak.

Yes.

And it is.

Some people find it funny.

It's a bold choice.

Right.

I mean, it was definitely a kind of

second wave feminist fantasy in some ways.

It was like a woman

being able to literally and metaphorically punch back at the kind of man who sort of feels superficially like, I'm a great guy and I'm a nice person to be married to, but actually...

Was being a bit of an arsehole.

A total arsehole.

Like, the Michael Johnson.

The tipping point I really spotted second time round now as a married man was when he was disparaging about her in front of his, not sex club, disparaging about my wife.

I hope never like this either, but it's just it was, it's awful.

It's like,

if I did that, you know, if anyone did that, I'd fucking hate them for it.

It is, it is horrible.

He just gets embarrassed about her at the dinner party with his colleagues that he's trying to show off to and impress.

Yeah, she's cooked it all for them.

And, you know, she says something, and it's just that is when the cold drop of ice enters her heart and it's horrible and I don't think they ever really fall back in love at any other point whereas with us I think we love each other till whatever end is the end.

Yeah,

it is really bleak and he like he's just a total irredeemable twat.

I think he becomes that, yeah.

And she has twattish elements to her and she, one of the themes in the film is this kind of fascination with status and materialism that they both have, which is also there to a degree in your version.

It is, I think so.

But somebody brought this up as like, you know, so much has changed.

I mean, you know, we're so kind of screwed by ambition now.

Hang on a minute.

You're talking about a film starring Michael Diggers, who just played Gordon Gecko in, you know, Wall Street saying greed is good.

I think materialism was very much born in the 80s

in the way that we, you know, know it now.

It's masked in different ways now.

It's a little bit more nefarious.

You can have it all.

Well, you can, but there are costs to having it all.

Therefore, you can't have it all.

It's true.

You can't have it all.

Of course, you can have a good old friend.

But you have to balance these things.

you can't just go all for one and think you can have the other two for free you know yes do you know what i mean i i do know what you mean and that seems to me like a a massive segue to me asking you how you do it

as well exactly as someone who is so busy and who works constantly and you have children three three boys yeah uh how what sort of ages are they six eight and ten oh man so you're i mean that is a busy time and that is a time when you really do want to be around them And I am a lot.

Yeah, yeah.

I do a lot less now.

And when I do it, it's nearly always here.

We have a two-week rule for when it's not here, but more than likely now, we're not a traveling circus like we were when we were very young.

I come home and I'm doing less.

And so that's it.

That's what this part is.

I'm not trying to make you defensive.

Am I being defensive?

No, I'm joking.

Oh, God, don't.

Well, no, because I think it is constantly something you have.

It's a checks and balance for a second.

Yeah.

All the time.

I'm loving it.

And I will constantly feel like i'm doing too much work or i'm too long at home or it just you just have to try and keep feeling out what's right and best for them and for you yeah because i think work is part of who you are sure that's a really important thing for children to realize as well and to understand that you love what you do which i'm very lucky to do i realize that's also rare air to breathe and I want them to see that.

I want them to see someone who loves what they do and understand why I love what I do.

But at the same time, I want them to see me.

I don't want them just me going, well, I'm going to work because I love it.

What would that feel as a job?

So, and I do spending time with them.

It's, you know, it's harder, definitely harder than work.

Yeah, yeah, but it's the most rewarding thing.

Are you, what kind of parent are you?

Are you

a class top?

Absolutely smashed.

No, of course not.

I'm, you know, I'm fathoming it out as I go and challenged by it all all the time.

And there's no kind of,

I think, I like the idea of a whole child, like understanding them and understanding the separation of behavior from the person, understanding that a lot of what they are throwing out at any age is to do with stuff that they don't understand or that they're struggling with that's not actually to do with the,

you know, fuck you, I hate it, you hate you, I've hated you since I was born stuff.

Is that what you say to your children?

When they misbehave.

I'll use that now, I will.

So, I mean, the obvious thing would be to ask you about how you achieve that in your own life.

You're an incredibly busy person and you want to maintain the cathedral of Cumberbatch

and the world wants you to do so.

But

how is it possible to take your foot off the gas and just say, actually, I'm going to say no to a lot of things?

Presumably, there's like a structure around you of people who really don't want you to say no to things as well.

Yeah, and when they have your best interests at heart, sometimes you just have to keep reminding them of the same thing.

The school holidays, the sacred dates, the anniversaries, the birthdays, all those things that are not workable.

And

it's understandable.

It's understandable.

And it's not that they don't have them.

It's like, right, but we do have to show you that so-and-so is called to would like to work with you on it, you know.

But I, you know.

It's a very empowering thing saying no and it's also an empowering thing remembering that a career is a lifetime Whereas their childhood is actually the blink of an eye compared to that.

So you know, there's certain stuff that plays in my mind as going, well, I'm going to be out of a playing range if I say no to everything until their house leavers.

Hopefully, if that happens in the 20s these days, who knows?

But it is the paramount thing that every choice is focused on, really.

I mean, obviously, the work itself has to be good enough to sacrifice any time away from home,

or let's say sacrifice, but like work it with home.

And that's what's on the page, and who's directing and who else is acting in it, and whether they're nice.

Because I'm at that age i kind of want to work with people who are actually

of course yes i think good work comes of that as well because it's more trusting you just you can really throw it out there and not feel like if you do fail it'll be a problem you can just keep having fun with it and

yeah going back to your question it is it's the central thing that shapes my choices and it kind of maintains i don't really go to algorithms i've also got a few things as in you know if oh god he didn't do that well he slid down the list of people now we're going to the people who are like him.

Yeah, I was going to say, like, if you're good, then you're sorted.

One would hope.

One would hope.

So you could, in theory, just press pause for six years, and what are they going to do about it?

They'll be very happy when you come back.

I'm not sure.

I'm not sure if I didn't work for six years.

It's quite a long time.

Sure, but I mean, what would happen though?

Well, why couldn't you do that?

Oh, God, you sound like Sophie.

Your wife.

Yes, my wife.

I think

it's part of who they have as a father and a husband.

And I think they'd all

go mad if I stayed at home.

What would you be doing around the home?

Would you be building furniture?

I'd probably be making movies out of our lives, or I would probably be building furniture.

No, I would go full DDL.

I think it's, why not?

And every time you veer into that sort of thing, and I did a lot for Power the Dog, you know, I was like, okay, I've just done some taxidermy.

I don't think I'm going to want to do too much of that.

It's quite smelly and dirty for obvious reasons.

But But

the Iron Mongery, not like the feature in the film, but just living that kind of outdoor life or creative life where you're learning how to grow things and produce things and farm things.

I could happily do that.

I could happily have a farm somewhere and disappear into that.

I played a few artists in my time, and that is something I'd love to really sit down and get on with.

And a musician or two.

I haven't really played a musician, but I use music.

I was going to ask if you played a musician, and which musician would you play?

Characters that play music.

You know, so I played the banjo terribly and power the dog

what musician would I play?

I would have loved to have played Bowie but I'm too old.

He could play late period Bowie.

He's got a story that goes right through until he's nearly 70.

You're right, you're right.

You're right.

You're right.

Very interesting part of his life.

Yeah, I mean it's most important to get a blessing for that from the people that mattered most to him in his life.

And I think unless that's a go, then it's not going to happen.

And I, yeah, we, there was a project once, but I won't say too much about it, but it didn't really happen because Duncan.

No one's really nailed a good Bowie film yet, I don't think.

I don't want to express his opinion on that.

I can.

I kind of agree.

I mean, it's so hard to do, isn't it?

It's really hard.

And I'm a huge John E.

Flint fan.

I thought he was pretty terrific, but it could have been a better film.

But he's a talent.

When your character in The Roses decides that he is going to become the primary caregiver for the children, while Olivia's character, Ivy, becomes a super chef,

one of of the first scenes where we see him making that switch in a slightly manic way is with him running along, taking the children jogging.

They're in their early teens.

And he's like, I'm sick of seeing my wife shoveling sugary treats into the mouths of my children.

I'm going to turn them into super athletes and I'm going to be Uber Dad.

And you're running along.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Are you listening to a podcast or are you talking about?

I'm listening to Alan Buxton.

Yeah.

That's where you should put the average.

Yeah, no, I'm no, I'm not.

I'm, I'm, they're just very snazzy-looking glasses that look like they could probably have Google on them.

But you're sort of ranting to yourself.

And I'm just going to having a middle-aged breakdown.

It's a proper midlife crisis moment.

Everything's turning on its head, and I'm trying to talk myself positive, basically, right?

Whilst ignoring the fact that my kids can hear everything I'm saying, and I'm talking about you don't want to be part of that, you don't want to be part of that toxic masculinity jizzing in the face of humanity.

You know, he's taking himself apart and sort of doing a cultural appraisal along the way of the state of male masculinity in this moment.

It sounded very podcast buzzword.

Like, I've listened to a lot of podcasts where all those things are expressed, and I've felt those feelings myself as well.

Like, sometimes you come out of listening to those conversations and you are filled with a sense of being kind of lost and, like, oh my god, what am I,

what function do I serve as a,

you know, prisoner?

This is you as the interviewer, or me as the interviewee.

This is me, I'm relating to the character at that moment and having those thoughts as a privileged middle-aged man, sort of overwhelmed by his position in society and what it should be and what I should be doing as a father, as a husband, as all these things that I am mediocre at so often.

I think that the thing of it as well, which he doesn't see coming, is what he thinks he's doing is

screwing up the bit of paper that says be ambitious and throwing it away because it's toxic and awful and focusing on something more wholesome, which is you know, raising children.

But what he doesn't realize, a little bit like an addict going from I don't know, drugs to working out a lot.

He's just going to then channel all that obsession into his children and

completely kind of vault fast on the direction they were going in, which was this happy, medium-ish, but more maybe mum-influenced sort of laissez-faire parenting.

And he's going to be really rigid, give them a lot of structure, make them do a lot of exercise, and stop eating sugar.

And they're going to get turned on by it.

I mean, kids do like structure, so give them a structure, they'll kind of go with it.

He doesn't realise in that moment of going, I'm going to be a better person by doing something wholesome.

He's actually doing something quite obsessive in the same way as, you know, architecture was his obsession.

And in the process, driving a wedge between him and his wife, exactly.

Because

her relationship with her children is now compromised.

She doesn't spend so much time with them.

It breaks her heart when she realizes

communicating with them is food, and he's kind of banned the kind of dessert fests that a lot of that food was in their early childhood by saying sugar's bad for you, causes cancer, it's inflammatory.

All true, by the way.

All true.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no!

The film starts with couples therapy.

Yeah.

Have Have you ever had couples therapy?

I mean, I know we're not going to chat about your private life, but...

This is certainly not something we're going to talk about.

That's not a personal question, is it?

You don't have to say exactly what you had.

Anyway, couples therapy.

The film starts with a scene of you having couples therapy, you and Olivia's character.

Yeah.

And

I mean couples therapy.

I don't know if I would ever have couples therapy, but apparently it's quite effective.

I looked it up and I thought, like, surely it's not effective.

Because I would think that if you went in and sat there and you aired your grievances about your partner, it would just be impossible to get any kind of meaningful, satisfying

result from that.

You know, wouldn't you just constantly be carrying around resentments about each other and not really being honest and

trying to settle scores in a way that was

no, I don't, It shouldn't be, I think it shouldn't be about that.

It shouldn't be about scores.

I think once you get into a world of scarcity and going, but you did this and I did that, and what's fair, what's not fair?

A good therapist, I suppose, holds you together.

And that's what a couple of therapists are supposed to do, right?

They hold you in the conversation.

And I don't know, maybe it's a safe place to air some of those grievances if that language becomes too inflammatory at home.

Yeah, yeah.

Or that problem becomes too inflammatory at home.

Maybe that helps.

I don't want to do a whole industry down.

I mean, the film sort of satirizes it because they're such a ridiculous couple at that moment.

They don't just,

you know, undermine the task by writing.

They're supposed to write 10 things I love about you, you know, something good about the person.

And, you know, Theo's list about her is really underwhelming and conditional.

You know, I like the shape of her head at a distance.

I remember her smelling nice on occasion.

I prefer being married to her than a wolf.

I mean, it's not very good.

And then she writes a list of things she hates about him, which is very ivy,

ending in a brilliant diatribe, which I think is probably in the advocate but i'll let i'll let olivia say say it because it's funny when she says the c word um and i just

it's it's their language between each other and where it helps in that moment is that they realize what they haven't been doing they haven't been speaking to each other they've been speaking at each other and there is a difference you you're not it's it's been one-sided argument and not

And then they laughed at.

They just, the bridge of it, is finding the other one amusing.

I mean, I think he compliments us.

I preferred your list.

Your list was best, you know.

Yeah.

Kind of was.

I know.

Well, that's a strange

lists and insults were often better.

Yeah.

But I, you know.

It's a funny moment in the scene because you sort of think, well, if a couple are able to laugh at each other and with each other like that, then they're sort of okay.

But I think the therapist is absolutely right.

All of it's very, very toxic and dangerous and could undermine any lasting relationship.

And lo and behold, that's what happens.

And they are very good at words, but they don't use them the right way.

And they do, you know, the teasing and cajoling, and it's corrosive.

and when it becomes really combative in the film it's violent and nasty and yeah literally violent to a point that's intolerable for both of them you know and then literal violence exactly

which we deal with in a

well it's quite quasi-comic it's heightened the tone is but there are bursts of real anger in there yeah

you know we're not we're not trying to make funny out of people that want to kill each other in a domestic environment well it's the same sort of heightened slightly cartoonish tone that the danny devito film had Exactly.

Where you kind of go, they're not going to do that, are they?

And I think that was my reaction to them doing that, though.

Where was I going with that?

Sorry.

Just heightened.

That's the word.

Is it Grand Guignol?

What does that mean?

Well, it's something you would tell me.

You must know that's a theatrical phrase, isn't it?

Grand Guignol.

Judicious snails?

I don't know.

Grand Guignol, it probably is.

For some reason, it's in my head.

It's been in my head all my life.

I've never known it.

Esprit de Scalier.

I know that one.

Esprit descalier.

You define esprit descalier.

So I can feel a little bit better about not knowing gongin.

Is when you are descending the stairs after an exchange in the salon and you have a blast of

that's what I should have said.

Yeah.

They didn't say dope in those days.

But it's realizing the witty comeback that wasn't available to you in the moment.

Yes.

It's the spirit of the stairs because it's as you're leaving, you go, ah, shucks, I missed it.

It is a very useful phrase because everyone feels it, especially in the modern world, in the social and media world.

That's true.

Like, oh, of course, I know what I should have said.

And especially after a confrontation in public or whatever, like if you get into a row with someone at the train station or whatever, and you have the perfect, and you feel humiliated and tongue-tied in those moments.

And then afterwards, you're like, of course, I should have said this brilliant thing.

It's British Scalier.

The other one that is useful as a concept is Schadenfreude, of course.

Scharden Freuder.

Well, I think that's that's to talk about the movie more.

It's very much a feeling.

It's there, but for the grace of God, go we as a couple-night movie.

It shouldn't be a depressing film.

A, hopefully, you're kind of gunning for both of them, and not either or, but both of them, their love, what they actually have.

And secondly, when it gets really dark, you could kind of go, Well, I can recognize bits of us, but whoa, thank God we didn't go there.

Yeah, yeah.

There, but for the grace of God, go we.

So the Schadenfreude is that enjoyment of other people's suffering, isn't it?

Yes.

It's the kind of vicarious.

Taking pleasure in other people's misfortunes.

Exactly, which I think that's what art and storytelling can do.

It gives us that kind of cathartic release of going, thank God I didn't meet my father and blind him and bugger my mother.

Not buggers, but you know what I mean.

Oh, yeah, I'd love that.

That's Oedipus.

That's your next film.

Yes.

Oh, dear.

A lovely glass of Schadenfreude.

Or, as my son said the other day, Dad, who's Freud and Schneider?

I was like,

rip off of Freud.

He made hot dogs.

It's great, man.

I really enjoyed it.

It's like,

I just want to

see a film about feelings and mad feelings, real feelings, relatable feelings, abstract feelings, whatever.

It was good to watch

a thing that was all about that.

My feelings are important.

my feelings are the best.

Sometimes I feel happy,

sometimes I'm depressed.

I love my feelings.

Nothing is real unless it's something I feel.

My feelings,

my feelings,

my feelings.

That's where I stop, that's where I end.

And if you don't respect my feelings, then we can't be friends.

We can't be friends.

This jingle's all about my feelings.

This jingle's all over my feelings.

This jingles all over my feelings.

This jingles all over my feelings.

I'm going to switch to asking you some questions that can be quickfire so we don't have to dwell on them.

You could give quick responses.

I'm thinking of James Lipton a little bit.

Okay, great.

You were never inside the actor's studio, were you yourself?

Inside it, no.

No.

Like a loser.

You were barred from the actor's studio.

No, but I know who you mean.

Yeah, okay.

Inside the actor's studio.

Have you ever had a massive meltdown on a film set?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Shouting, throwing things.

Yeah.

Has it been filmed?

And recorded and put out there like Tom Cruise?

No.

No.

No.

I mean, massive?

Probably not.

Massive for me.

What was it about?

Do you remember why it happened?

I wouldn't call it a massive meltdown, and I'm always very all over the place after I have any kind of loss of composure, but usually to do with insecurity, which is what it's all about with any actors that are notorious for that or do it on, surprisingly.

It's about a loss in confidence of self and going, help me.

I'm naked up here and I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

And you just look for...

You look for something.

It's not about blaming someone.

It's often for me in a bigger film when a director's not there, when I'm just kind of in front of a camera, the crew about 100 yards away, the camera's going like that, and I'm being flown around a street.

And guess what production that was?

That gets difficult.

Are you going to remind me?

You're looking at me as if like.

Well, that's interesting, Bennett.

You haven't mentioned this one, which Martin Freeman told me about on the 7th of August.

No, I'm trying to, I'm cultivating sympathy for actors in that situation, having been criticised by friends, well, Louis Theroux mainly, for basing one of my podcast jingles on Christian Bale's meltdown on the set of Terminator Salvation.

Favourite one of your jingles.

The other favorite of mine, just to get off the sticky subjects on my meltdowns, is your Squarespace one.

And I was trying to look for it on SoundCloud and I can't find it.

I don't know how to search for anything on SoundCloud.

I'm so everything illiterate, but especially that.

And I

love it.

I just love it because I'm a big fan of Michael Barbara on the daily.

Oh, yeah.

You know, the kind of

the audio version of the

noddy, you know, the kind of cutaway when an interviewer on telly is just nodding, going,

deeply understanding what you're saying, or kind of going along with it.

And he goes, huh, hmm.

But you just take it to this sex excuse, going, huh, huh, huh, huh?

It's just, yeah, that's me.

That's me, age 12 and now.

And I guess that's how all this started, actually, with dictaphones and doing silly voices and noises and my own version of

stuff.

Yeah.

Well, it is.

It is.

That was kind of, before I was given more responsibility and actually doing it properly, I just kind of run around doing, and I think that's where my ear for impersonations and stuff like that came about.

On your dictaphone?

On a dictaphone at school, yeah.

Right.

And then just sort of going around.

Yeah, the magic of recording your voice and hearing it back for the first time.

I'm having conversations with it, with the character that I was portraying, a master or a pupil or someone made up with other, and you know, in front of kids as they were going to bed and I was trying to be the authority in that moment.

I remember doing that and yeah, lots of skits and lots of things like that for real as in with other people.

But yeah.

The jiggles thing I've always loved.

He shouldn't be angry with you about Christian Bell.

Christian Bell's brilliant, and he can probably take it, it's probably very flattered and it's very funny.

But I probably imagine in that moment, I can put myself in that moment.

And I've heard about that DOP, I've heard he is incredibly disrespectful.

I've only worked with Christian down the line in Andy Serka's retelling of the jungle book, which is wonderful to have a moment with him.

Sadly, not on set, but he was so charming.

Right, let's go again.

What don't you fucking understand?

Kick your fucking ass!

Let's go again!

What the fuck is it with you?

I want you off the fucking set, you prick!

No!

You're a nice guy!

What the fuck are you doing?

No!

Don't shut me up!

No!

No!

Ah, da-da-da-da, like this!

No!

No!

Don't shove me up!

Ah, da-da-da-da, like this!

Fuck's sake, man, you're amateur.

Seriously, man, you and me, we're fucking done professionally.

I think it's usually for me about feeling insecure, feeling feeling that things are so far away and I don't know what I'm doing.

I did a film recently.

I won't mention because I don't want to involve the people's names in it and the anecdote, but my side of it, my sort of insecurity was that there'd been a while a discussion of something that wasn't going right in this long old action scene, this big old fight number and counter directions coming from ADs and the first AD.

And I was going,

please, can I have a director?

Can I just have a director?

And everyone went really quiet because the director does a lot remotely.

He watches it he feeds in but I said I need my director well we got no that's I need my the director here now and everyone's like you know a little bit I felt but probably not probably other people going yeah that'd be nice it would be nice come on and he was and it was fine and he sorted it out he knew that you know I was having a bit of a hissy and I needed to you know have my knickers untwisted yeah it wasn't really a hissy either it was just like what the fuck are we actually doing I mean this is I can't hold like five different versions of this in my head and know which one I'm supposed to be doing.

And it was cleared up, and it was great.

And actually, it made a difference.

He really improved the bit that we were struggling with.

But I have that sometimes, and it's usually when it's I don't understand what is wanted as well.

Because I am,

I mean, to my detriment at times, a bit of a people please.

And if I feel and it's like, no, no, no, and I'm at, but I thought I was, no, no, no.

If I can't get that right, that wears me down.

I don't think I have hissy fits.

I just lose all kind of faith in being any good at anything at that point.

And it's quite a spectacular amount of people to feel that in front of.

And I've definitely had that on stage countless times when you just go, they really, I've lost everyone in this room.

What am I doing here?

They're just imagining other people doing this and thinking, why did they spend any money and time watching me kind of flail around and fail, you know?

So you just kind of have to have another point of focus in those crisis moments and go,

I'm just going to work with the people opposite me.

They know what I'm doing.

And I got to really listen to them and hope that, you know, something happens between us and not worry about my own crashing sense of uh inadequacy or fear, you know.

Oh, it's very heartening to hear someone as accomplished as you struggling with those things.

That's true, I think we all do, of course.

Impressions, though, I'm not going to get you to do the thing they did.

I've got a treat for you if we have time.

Yeah, and my director actually said, and it wasn't direct I was talking about, this is Dylan Southern, who I just did, who's sort of originally from the sort of music video world.

Yeah, so quite a favoured tech.

He's a real sine ass and he's a brilliant director.

And this is his his first time featured.

It's an adaptation of a Max Porter novel called The Thing.

Well, Grief is the Thing with Feathers.

It's the brilliant novella, which I actually you should definitely read.

In our version, it's called The Thing with Feathers.

And he, you know, it's a very serious book for those listeners who know it, and a very serious subject, but dealt with in the most extraordinary, what was that phrase you had earlier?

The gon guignal?

Gron Guignol.

Kind of a bit of gonquinyal going on in it at times, and humour and darkness, and really authentic grief and

tears and maelstrom.

So, this is quite

rich, deep stuff.

But this, however, is what he spent his time doing

in a bored moment of editing.

And I just think you'll appreciate it.

I did ask for his permission before I came on today because I thought, I don't have a jingle, I don't have the time or the whereabouts to do it, wherehow, know-how.

But this is this is his first offering.

Can I move?

I'm

Out of my what?

Special pole.

Oh, my special pole.

And I thought, okay,

that's still in southern, is it?

Yeah, but it could be Adam Buxton.

And it was just sort of slightly unnerving.

But yeah.

Anyway, you can use that or not, but I thought I had to share that with you, whether it's in real time or not.

I'd love to.

Adam Buxton time.

All right, right, quickfire, do you smell nice?

What is your favourite smell?

It's important to me, yes.

I like natural smells, but I don't want to overload people with either that or the cologne cover-up, which I find that is more offensive, actually, in BO these days.

It's like when you walk into an elevator and you smell of the cologne that that person or toilette that the woman is.

Well, we're in a hotel, which is one of those hotels that has quite a heavily perfumed lobby.

Don't you see, I'm so anesthetised to it because I've been in here for three whole days.

I'd probably smell at the hotel now when I go home.

Do you wear a deodorant?

No, I wear rock salt, the rock crystal stuff.

I use that.

This is very, wow.

I never thought I'd be talking about what I rub under my armpits with you.

Rock crystals you're rubbing under there.

Yeah.

Well, you know,

yeah, it's basic salt crystal.

It's called salt of the earth.

And yeah.

It's basically a natural bacteria killer, so it kind of kills the thing that makes the odour.

It doesn't give you a nice smell.

It stops you smelling bad.

Okay.

So rub a bit under the arms, bit under the nutties.

I mean, yeah, well,

whoa, whoa.

Well, we just maybe, I mean, you know, leave that to the audience's imagination.

Okay, then.

Here's a nice question.

Go on there.

What always lifts your spirits?

Could be in any medium.

Listening to you doing the Squarespace.

The Michael Barbaro impression.

It really makes me happy just thinking about it.

There are a few things like that.

Using templates and drag and drop tools, you can create a professional-looking website in less than half an hour.

What else makes me happy?

My family.

Oh,

what a suck-up and sentimentalist name.

But it's true.

Those are the two things that make me happy, you and my family.

Oh, thank you.

I mean, honestly.

These are the things that are coming off the top of my head.

I mean, it depends.

Nature, nature, nature.

Going back to the proper vibrational frequency that we're all having at a rest state, which is apparently the same as the Earth's.

That's been proven.

So, getting rid of your smart things and just walking around, and it could be a nice flat bit of Norfolk or a hilly, woody bit of somewhere.

But you know, trees are my thing as well.

I love that kind of tree bar thing.

Is there a film that reliably lifts your spirits that you return to?

I mean, the big ones seasonally, you know, like it's a wonderful life.

I remember Sophie and I were in Edinburgh and she went, Let's go and see it.

It's all at the cinema.

I've seen it so many times.

My God, though, on the cinema, the microscopic detail of how extraordinary those performances are.

I haven't seen it for years.

Oh, he's so good in it.

I mean, and not just because it's kind of iconic, but it's a brilliant piece of naturalism.

He's so alive in everything everything he does.

It's remarkable.

And you really only get that hit, I think, in a close-up in a cinema.

Yeah.

Not on the Afon.

No.

What was it that David Lynch would say?

If people feel they've seen a movie on their fucking phone, it's a tragedy.

You haven't seen a film if you watch it on your phone.

Did you?

You did a podcast.

Did you do a podcast with him?

No, he was always on my wishlist.

We have done with...

Is it Vim Venders or is it

Herzog?

How was that?

I should listen to that one on the way.

Hopefully, that's quite a good one.

Yeah, yeah, it worked out well.

We had some technical issues, and I initially thought

we had one session via Zoom that ended with me just giving up, basically, after half an hour.

He was getting more and more frustrated, and he said, I knew this would happen.

This is grotesque.

I mean, that

because of the technical issues, he really hates all that.

This is grotesque.

This is grotesque.

I told him it would happen like this.

I love your version because it's slightly more.

It's like he's got an elastic mouth.

Yeah, my version has gone quite a bit.

What's your version?

I think he's a little tighter.

Everything's

just a little.

His jaw is hurting when he speaks.

Because his jaws is like

I want to swallow a talent ball.

Mine's gone quite a long way from reality.

It's more like Velvet Dandegram.

That's right.

Spremendous Nico.

I'll be your mirror.

It is greatesque.

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Continue.

Have you ever put drugs on your bum?

People do that, don't they?

They do.

I don't.

Hey,

welcome back, podcast.

That was Benedict Cumberbatch talking to me there, of course.

Well, just there, it was

us going to a place that I thought better of going to.

There was a PR person in the room, and I

didn't look over at that exact moment, but I was getting the feeling that I should move on from that particular subject.

Anyway, it was really great to meet Benedict, and I'm very grateful to him and his team for making the time to talk to me.

A reminder that The Roses

is in cinemas now,

and later this this year you'll be able to see Benedict in that Dylan Southern film, The Thing with Feathers.

Before I say goodbye, another couple of cultural recommendations for you.

Miranda Sawyer's podcast, Talk 90s to Me.

Miranda is a great journalist who writes brilliantly about music.

She's been on this podcast before and actually she has invited me onto her podcast to talk about the 90s

and pop culture and DIY TV and music and all that kind of stuff.

I'm looking forward to that, but it was good timing because I'd been audiobooking her Brit Pop book, which is called Uncommon People.

The synopsis begins, when Miranda Sawyer interviewed Noel Gallagher in 1995, his gag, wishing Damon Olbarn would die of AIDS, became front-page news.

This fascinating pop history, exploring the mid-90s moment when British music suddenly meant everything, explains why.

Picking out 20 key songs, delving into the surprising stories behind them and their unlikely creators, Uncommon People takes us back to when Jarvis Cocker became a national hero, train spotting was a global hit, fire starting seemed like a good night out, and it felt as though the revolution was happening.

A very different time.

Anyway, as I said, she writes really well about it.

I'm enjoying it so much, and I'm looking forward to appearing on her podcast, Talk 90s to Me.

Also, I just listened to the first episode of a Radio 4 series, which you can listen to now on BBC Sounds, What Happened to Counterculture?

It's presented by Stuart Lee.

In fact, I was going to mention it last week when I talked about bumping into Stuart, but I forgot.

And it's produced by Simon Hollis.

The blurb says, comedian Stuart Lee presents a five-part series exploring the evolution and key ideas that have driven counterculture from its beginnings with the beats, folk and jazz in the 1950s to its heights in the 1960s and 70s, including the hippies and early tech communalists, the new libertarian movements and punk to the 1980s and early 90s where political power on both sides of the Atlantic pushed back against the values of the permissive society.

It's good, interesting, timely.

You've got contributors that that include Brian Eno, authors Ian Sinclair and Olivia Lang, music producer Joe Boyd.

I loved his book, White Bicycles.

I really recommend that.

Joe Boyd produced early Pink Floyd and Nick Drake and was a seminal figure in the British folk movement in the 60s.

It's such a good book, White Bicycles.

There's also sculptor Emily Young, cultural historian John Savage, folk singer Shirley Collins.

And that's just in episode one.

What happened to Counterculture?

There's a link in the description that will get you to BBC Sounds where you can listen to it.

By the way, I'm not sponsored by them.

The castle, that is.

It's just something I enjoyed, and I thought I would share it with you.

And finally, hope you'll forgive me for mentioning it again, but it would be sort of insane if I didn't, considering it comes out this week.

My album, Buckle Up, lands on the 12th of September.

There's a link in the description that will enable you to pre-order

a vinyl copy that comes with beautiful signed artwork.

And the same day that the album comes out, I think I'm right in saying,

single number three comes out, Dancing in the Middle.

Dancing in the middle.

And it will be accompanied by a video by animator Syriac Harris.

If you used to come to bug shows, you will have seen many of Syriac's videos that we used to play there.

If you've never heard of Syriac Harris,

well, I would go exploring.

Type in C-Y-R-I-K.

Syriac YouTube animations

and you're going to have a crazy strange time.

But Siriac has also directed many excellent music videos over the years, including one for my counting song.

Counting, counting, counting, counting, counting things you like.

That was Siriac, although on that one he was working with artist Sarah Brown doing the illustrations.

This time it's just solo Syriac doing a video for dancing in the middle.

Hope you enjoy it.

I'm really delighted that Syriac did it.

And overall,

I really hope you like the album.

It's like a mixtape of extended jingles.

Is that good?

I've been doing press for it this week, which is slightly anxiety inducing and I often come out kicking myself for feeling that I've kind of undersold the album, put myself down too much.

You know what I'm like.

But the truth is,

I'm really happy with it.

I'm very grateful to everyone who's helped me put it together.

And I really hope you like it.

All right, that's it for this week's episode.

Thank you very much indeed once again to Benedict Cumberbatch.

Thanks to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his production support and additional conversation editing.

Thanks to everyone at ACAST for liaising with my sponsors.

Thanks to Helen Green for her beautiful artwork.

But thanks most of all to you.

Oh, you did it again.

You came back.

You listened to the end.

I hope you enjoyed it.

I hope it didn't send you into an apoplectic rage for any reason.

And whether it did or not, I hope you won't consider me too forward if I propose a bit of a hug.

Hey, come on.

It's just a hug.

All right.

Nice to see you.

I hope you're doing well out there.

Go carefully.

Until next time, I love you.

Bye.

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