Jeff Daniels on the Enemy Within

Abortion can feel like a hard topic to talk about, but getting care shouldn't be.

AbortionFinder.org is a free, secure website where you can find up-to-date info on clinics, providers, telehealth options, and state restrictions.

No judgment, no misinformation, just facts, so you can make the decision that's right for you.

Millions have used Abortion Finder to get care, and it's backed by trusted experts.

If you or someone you love needs answers or options, visit abortionfinder.org.

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean and cold water?

Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold.

Butter?

Yep.

Chocolate ice cream?

Sure thing.

Barbecue sauce?

Tide's got you covered.

You don't need to use warm water.

Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology.

Just remember: if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be tide.

What was the most out-of-body role for you?

Dumb and dumber.

I didn't know how to do it.

You know,

I didn't know how to be that dumb.

Hi everyone, it's Nicole Wallace.

Welcome to The Best People.

This week I talked to one of my favorite friends who lives in the middle of the country, someone I email all the time at the most heated moments in our politics to say, how's it playing in Michigan?

He decided to raise his family there instead of ever moving to Hollywood or Los Angeles, even though he is one of the most iconic actors of our time, playing some of the funniest men on the big screen and some of the most moral men on stage and on the small and big screen.

But that's not all.

He also played us his guitar in this episode.

This is The Best People with Nicole Wallace, and this is Jeff Daniels.

Let's

try not to hit an iceberg on our way.

Icebergs are everywhere.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for being here.

So I got to listen to you create.

something that I hadn't heard from you before.

I'd seen you play on Kelly Clarkson and on the internet, but I got to listen to you perform a whole set.

and your whole thing made more sense to me.

You make more sense to me now.

I made you laugh.

Yeah, it's it's you know that's it, that's a good way to put it because

you know I'm known for one thing, being an actor,

but to walk out

on a stage in front of say 160 people or a club with just an acoustic guitar

and your stories leading into the song, story leading into the song, and you got to hold them.

That's hard.

And I get to be

creatively, I'm 100% in control.

I'm the director, I'm the writer, I'm the editor, I'm everything.

And nobody to blame, but except me, but

you know, it's a great challenge, too.

And that's kind of where I am now, you know, is

challenging myself after decades of doing this.

I never want to stick to the same thing, and I think that's why the guitar happened.

And

the fact that I can entertain people and hold them

for 100 minutes is

that's the success every time I do it.

It's called the Best People Podcast.

What's the best plot twist in your life?

Best plot twist

was

auditioning on a whim

at another college just to see how I'd stack up against kids from around the state.

And then I'm going to skip the callbacks and go to the hockey game and get drunk with my college roommates.

That's Saturday night.

That's my Saturday in 1976, spring.

That's all I'm going to do.

So I go down to this other college.

I auditioned doing a monologue I had done four months earlier at the

college I was at.

Boom, there it is.

Thanks so much.

Buddies are outside.

Great.

I leave.

I'm going.

And a seventh-year senior, great, great guy.

Where are you going?

You know, I'm going.

We're going to a hockey game.

Callbacks are any minute.

I know, I know.

And he said, you might want to stick around.

And so I did, and I got called back.

And I'm going to read for the lead in Summer and Smoke, the Tennessee Williams play, who's directed by somebody I've never heard of.

And I go, I want to just, I want to take off.

And he's going, you idiot, you.

The guest director of Summer Smoke is a guy named Marshall W.

Mason.

He's the artistic director of Circle Repertory Company in New York.

Basically, he's out here at Eastern Michigan University picking up a check to direct some college kids from his old buddy, who he went to college with at Northwestern, who has now asked him to come on out make some money.

Great.

He's done that.

You might want to stick around for that one.

And so I waited and he was, I was the last one to get called back.

And Marshall brought me up, sat me in a chair, had a girl named Debbie.

It was the two of us.

He sat us in chairs just like this and said, do the scene.

Oh, okay.

Just do the scene.

Great, good.

We're done.

Thank you.

And I go,

I got it.

And that was that.

And Marshall said, you should probably come to New York.

And

no promises, but you should come to New York.

You're good enough to try.

And so I quit school and came to New York that fall and never looked back.

Is it that serendipitous?

I mean, Aaron Sorkin says you're simply one of the best actors he's ever worked with.

I mean, is it both?

Is it the talent and the twist?

I think that's part of moving to Michigan was I didn't want to lose whatever it was that happened when I became Fagin and Oliver or Harold Hill

or Tevian, Fiddler on the Roof, for God's sake.

Where is that coming from?

Who is?

I don't want to spoil that.

And I thought moving to Hollywood would spoil that.

And so I'm just riding that same

well of creativity and imagination that I had way back when, but I didn't have any training or technique or knew how to bring it up whenever I needed to bring it up.

And I think the magic of it all,

where you're in the take in the middle of, you know, Dewey and Reagan and you can feel him.

And now you're riding it.

You know, that's why Aaron was so good.

And the great writers are all like this.

You're just riding their words.

You know, they're secretariat.

You're just the jockey, you know, on top.

But then you got to know

what to do with it,

and then you get out of the way.

The greatest country in the world speech that I did in Newsroom was full of just,

it's like it has wings.

You feel yourself go,

and you're just, you're him, and you're riding, and it's all there.

And because you prepped, you're prepared, and then cut.

Is that the best feeling?

Yeah.

Anything better?

The best feeling ever was Atticus Finch,

and this is when

I knew I'd made it.

I was done.

I didn't need to chase anymore.

And the closing argument in To Kill a Mockingbird on Broadway, Harper Lee, Aaron Sorkin,

and the whole play

on stage talking to characters.

Halfway through that closing argument, I walked down to Tom Robinson and the injustice that is about to happen to this innocent man.

I turn for the first time to the audience and I treat the audience like it's the jury.

And it's so startling because

we had others, Celia and others were talking to the audience, kind of narrating along the way, but I never, Atticus never did that until then.

And when I did,

and I treated the 1,400 people sitting in the Schubert Theater like they were the 12 white jurors

and shamed them

pin drop every time, eight times a week for a year, every single show.

I'll never have that again.

But I had it then.

I was there.

It was incredible.

It was, you know, and I came out of that show going, no,

I made it.

That's when I knew I'd, at least in my world,

45 or whatever years later of doing it, like going,

oops, you made it.

You got there.

Now it's just fun.

I think the reason you've become someone I turn to, and I'm trying to understand what the hell's going on in the country, is that that connection

extends to the country, right?

And to your neighbors, into

the middle of the country.

How much has

the creative and the location and where you decided to sort of plant your flag, connect.

Moving to Michigan in 1986 after about four or five movies was not what you were supposed to do.

And it allowed me that when I did come into New York or LA to do something,

it brought back the wonder.

I was making movies.

It's kept.

the fun of it.

I got asked by a younger actor recently, he goes, do you still like it?

And I said, I love between action and cut because that's,

if you do it right, you lose yourself.

You become that person.

You become Will McAvoy or something.

And then they say cut, and then they say, Jeff, you good?

And you have no memory of what you just did.

It's that out of body?

That's what you're shooting for, yeah.

It doesn't always happen because you're, you know, their lines and staging and all the stuff.

The technical, the mechanical part is always, you know, going, but you want to shut him up so you can just kind of go.

And they say cut, and you go, oh,

okay.

That's that's where the fun is.

What was the most out-of-body role for you?

Dumb and dumber.

I didn't know how to do it.

You know,

I didn't know how to be that dumb.

I didn't.

And I

and I remember I got it

and

I had done the screen test with Jim.

Jim came in.

There were a few of us that were in the finals.

And so I came in.

I remember Jim just kind of started a scene and he kind of screwed his hair up.

And so I go, I got to match that.

So I just did.

You know, and then we were kind of bouncing off each other.

And

then we got into Colorado to shoot and

it wasn't going well.

We were reading stuff.

It wasn't going well.

And you could tell.

And I said, I know what it is.

And they're going, what, please?

He has an IQ of eight.

Not seven, not nine, eight.

And that made perfect sense to me.

And then I became the puppy on the leash.

Jim would lead.

Harry,

what?

You know, just have a half-second delay.

Now you got that, you got that, you just see the word eight, and there's a vacancy that happens.

And then they'd say cut, and you'd get your brain back.

Dumb and dumber is.

You asked.

No, no, no.

Well, so my son is

gloriously uninterested in everything that I do.

Thank God.

But when I told him I was talking to you today,

he sort of looked at his schedule at school and he said, I can't miss school, but that's cool.

For dumb and dumber to mean something to a 13-year-old with all the competition that teens have from screens and phones is

about sort of the transcendent nature of dumb and dumber, right?

Why do those guys still just nail it with all audiences?

You hope that especially with a comedy, which can,

there is a shelf life on most of them, that the fact that we're lasting

like a Pink Panther, Peter Sellers,

Preston Sturgis movies last, at least for me.

It becomes this kind of everybody does something stupid at some point.

So that's the kind of universal hook.

And I'm glad, you know, we knew when we put it out that 12-year-old boys, 13-year-old boys, would think of it as their citizen Kane.

We knew.

We were aware of that.

That was the contribution.

We weren't prepared for the demo that went from A to 80.

What is it to

have that role among your iconic roles standing next to Atticus Finch?

Part of my plan

was to create as wide a range as possible.

I knew if I lived out of LA or New York, living in Michigan is you might as well be in Siberia.

And so I had to create a range.

And I knew I could be funny.

And I wasn't going down that road.

So I really wanted Dumb and Dumber, got it.

So Dumb and Dumber is way over here.

But then you put Atticus Atticus Finch or Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain.

Now there's this wide gap that has nothing to do with creating a brand, where you are at 35, you hit, you're an action star or you're a romantic lead or whatever you are, and that is who you play the next eight movies until you get older.

And then you have to decide whether you get the plastic surgery or not.

And then if you do get the plastic surgery, you try to pretend that even though you're you're 62, you're really 35.

But everyone can look on their phone and go, you're not 35.

You know?

So

I always wanted that range.

And Clint said, I did a movie with Clint Eastwood, and he said, there was a drama I did called Two Days in the Valley.

He said, if you can do Two Days in the Valley and you can do Dumb and Dumber, you can do this.

We're going to sneak in a quick break.

Then we'll have much more with my friend, iconic actor Jeff Daniels.

We'll be back in a moment.

Proposition 50 threatens what voters built.

California voters approved an independent commission that spent thousands of hours creating fair election districts where all people are represented.

Prop 50 destroys this good work.

Prop 50 is a direct attack on democracy, a dangerous idea that tears away the power power of choice.

Protect your vote and democracy.

Vote no on Prop 50 and paid for by no on Prop 50.

Protect Voters First, sponsored by Hold Politicians Accountable at Committee's Top Funder Charles Munger Jr.

Abortion can feel like a hard topic to talk about, but getting care shouldn't be.

AbortionFinder.org is a free, secure website where you can find up-to-date info on clinics, providers, telehealth options, and state restrictions.

No judgment, no misinformation, just facts, so you can make the decision that's right for you.

Millions have used Abortion Finder to get care, and it's backed by trusted experts.

If you or someone you love needs answers or options, visit abortionfinder.org.

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better, clean and cold water?

Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold.

Butter?

Yep.

Chocolate ice cream?

Sure thing.

Barbecue sauce?

Tide's got you covered.

You don't need to use warm water.

Additionally, tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new cold zyme technology.

Just remember, if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide.

What felt like the biggest reach at the time that you got it?

I've always gone in to most, especially the last 10 years or so.

And I don't know how I'm going to do it.

So I say, yes.

If I know how, oh, I read it, I go, I know how to do this.

I can do this on Monday.

I know I'm going to be bored.

And that's the enemy.

That's the enemy.

At this age, you know, when you start, when you check out of the ambition hotel, you know, and you kind of go, okay, now I just want to do stuff that keeps me interested.

I just shot a movie called Reykjavik.

Hardest thing I've ever done.

Because I had to come up with a Ronald Reagan.

It was the 1986 meeting between Reagan and Gorbachev.

They met in Reykjavik, Iceland in a little house to discuss lowering nuclear weapons because we were at a, it was a, as I researched it, it was like, oh my God, were we close.

And it was an incredible weekend.

And I had to come up with a Reagan.

And Michael Gunn is the writer director, and he was, he actually was on the staff, writing staff at Newsroom when we did Newsroom.

Smart guy, great guy.

guy, had a great script taken from transcripts of what they said to each other.

And there's a story there, especially now with Trump and Putin and

what that relationship is.

Reagan and Gorbachev was not that.

It's what the Republican Party used to be,

what they could be proud of.

It was...

I mean, he says things in the Reykjavik movie that we got from the transcript.

He tells Gorbachev, we are a nation of immigrants.

And he's for that.

I had to come up with a voice.

That was hard.

I saw it.

Can I hear it?

Huh?

Can I hear it?

Well, there are trigger words.

Much like Harry Dunn had

the numeral eight,

the word well.

All I have to say, well, I'm right in here.

And that's kind of all you need.

And you, you know, I would study that.

I was youtubing him for seven months before we shot trying to get the voice trying to get the will i'm you know and you get just enough of that and then they put the hair on you and uh and you look i look like him sort of but i was still me it's what timothy shalomet did in complete unknown uh ed norton did it with segreg pete seeger and george clooney is doing it on broadway with ed merle and good night and good luck they there aren't any prosthetics There's no chin and the nose and the thing and you can't even see me.

You could see Timothy, you could see Ed, you could see George, but Murrow in George's case was inside him.

And that's the little magic trick with the camera.

If you can still see me, but there's enough Reagan hair and the cock of the chin and the, well, right in here, Nicole.

And then you...

Suddenly you're pulling him in and he's in here somewhere.

And then strangely it works, but you doubt it every single day you're shooting because you feel so fake and false.

And you go, I just, I can't, I just wish I could be.

Well, you're not him, okay?

So just suggest him.

Hardest thing I've ever done.

So you're playing Reagan as the campaign season because I was emailing with you.

How much is Reagan our distant past now that Trump is the standard bearer of the the Republican Party?

Distant with a capital D?

Yeah, I don't think we should be surprised.

Maybe there are some Republicans who are becoming surprised about what's going on, how far he's going.

But I've told you, I should go back to that 90-minute meeting that Trump had with Putin behind closed doors in Helsinki.

Kick the American translator out,

says Putin, Trump, and the Russian translator.

What happened?

What were we talking about?

Curious.

Because he came out of that room looking like a child that had been scolded and told to stand over there.

And as someone who has spent his life observing people,

that's what I do.

Every human being has strengths and weaknesses.

Even the biggest moral hero that you're playing has got to have weaknesses, otherwise he's one-dimensional.

That's what makes us human.

We're not perfect.

But

the collapse of the Republican Party,

taking a knee,

you know.

I still think about Kamala

and how I think she would have been a good choice.

I don't care what they say.

Because she would have done what Lincoln did.

Liz Cheney would have been Secretary of State.

Team of Rivals.

Yeah, Team of Rivals.

Doris Kearns Goodwin wrote the book about it.

That's what Lincoln did.

Surrounded himself with the people who would disagree with him, not the people who would, you know, take a knee and go, yeah, more tariffs, sir, more.

It's the madness of King George.

And if, and just the deterioration of the Republican Party.

I mean, look, I'm just an actor.

What do I know?

But when Mitch started Stack in the Courts 25 years ago,

I said it on your show once.

It's

they can see it coming.

The new America that is diverse and treats everyone with equality and respect and dignity, you know, kind of like Jesus did, we're ready for that.

And Mitch and company could see it coming.

They were going to be the minority.

And then here we are.

And now you got it.

And now you're losing money.

I hope you're losing tons of money.

Those of you who thought this would be okay.

My question is, what are you guys going to do about it?

I mean, Michigan voted for Trump this time again, I think, right?

I mean, the tariffs are going to hurt your neighbors.

They're going to hurt.

Which I think at the end of the day, that's what's going to do it.

You just got to go, wait a minute.

The grocery bill is what?

$180 more?

Yeah.

I can't get that car that we have to have unless I pay another $8,000.

What?

Who do I blame for that?

Who do I see about that?

One person.

And I feel like some of the conversations we've had over the last

five, six years were about this tug, not between right and left, but between decency.

And maybe if it's about the cost of things, decency became a luxury.

There's something about decency being

the sort of collateral damage, the thing we lose over wanting cheaper eggs.

Do you think it was ever really about cheaper eggs?

Well, I think at the end of the day, it'll be about just the price of eggs.

Did it go up or down?

Because that's what he told me he was going to lower the price of eggs or my grocery bill.

I think that still matters, at at least out in the middle of the country.

That matters.

The money matters.

Aaron Powell, Jr.: So Trump wins because things are too damn expensive, right?

We talked ahead of the election.

I mean, like, I think a lot of people did feel so much economic anxiety that they swallowed the whole bag of Trump's warts and wounds and flaws to have more economic

relief, maybe, is what they were looking for.

I think there was this pull, right?

Between,

I know that he's not,

doesn't have the character, if he were a lifelong Republican, of someone like Reagan or McCain, but there was this profound sense that things were getting out of reach.

The price of college, the price of a home, all those things.

If the character or the lack of character didn't hold them back, do you think the economic collapse he's manufactured will make people in Michigan think twice about

Trumpism?

Aaron Powell, I think he's a snake oil salesman, and I think people will see that.

I think one of the things that we've lost,

and this

having played people like Atticus Finch and, yes, Jim Comey,

he stood for some things.

Even McAvoy in Newsroom certainly did.

Is America the best nation?

What's the monologue?

How does it start?

America is the best.

No, we're not the greatest country in the world, and whatever I said.

Yeah, I can't remember.

I can't remember it.

But you memorized it, right?

Yeah, at one point, yeah, it was in there.

We've lost decency.

We've lost civility.

We've lost respect for the rule of law.

Lost it.

We have normalized verbal abuse on the internet.

We've normalized bullying.

Much as the woke generation tried to

change that, it's back.

And along out the window goes character, integrity.

I mean, nobody has great things to say about politicians.

They never have.

Go back to Mark Twain.

But ideally,

we're supposed to elect the best of us,

not the worst of us.

He's everything that's wrong

with not just America, but with being

a human being.

I just don't get the

Christian right.

And I've read a lot of people who do, and they explain it a lot better, but it's beyond me.

But I just,

if Jesus came back,

say,

four o'clock this afternoon,

and he booked an appearance on your show,

what do you think he'd say about how things are going?

That's what I want to propose to some of the people who are so

hell-bent on what Trump is and what he represents and how I love the president.

I'm going, have you seen the litany of stuff that he's done to people?

I just think we're better than that.

And I wish the Republican Party could get back to being better than they are now.

I don't know.

Aaron Powell.

Do you think that people in Michigan, I mean, it's a super-informed electorate with really,

really

I don't want to say rising stars because they're already stars, but really high quality statewide elected officials in

the governor, Governor Wimmer, the Secretary of State,

Jensen, Mallory running for Senate.

Do you think that in November, because Michigan's a perfect example.

I mean, people chose,

you know, they chose all those women I just named and they chose Donald Trump.

I mean, what was that about?

I don't know because I missed that.

I thought Michigan would get swept up in the New America, that we were the generation that was going to go, no, we're ready.

All-inclusive.

No, it's going to be the best of all of us, not just some of us.

I thought we were ready for that.

I was as surprised as anyone.

But I think it's going to, you know, I think they got to get hit.

I think they got to get...

get woken up because we look

I mean I grew up in a Republican house we just didn't, I don't think I ever heard the word Republican until I was in my 20s.

My dad was a small businessman.

My mom used to be on a farm, and

you didn't talk about politics.

Nobody did.

Now,

it's on her phone.

It's hitting us.

It's Facebook.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

You can't get away from it.

And I think that's good.

I think it's bad.

And there wasn't such the divide.

I'll go back to Reagan and that he could get in a room with Mikael Gorbachev and hammer out something over three days.

Just the two of them, and George Schultz, but just the two of them.

And Tip O'Neill and Obama and John Boehner were this far from a grand bargain.

And then somebody jerked Boehner's leash, and next thing you know, he's selling marijuana in Florida.

He seems so happy.

He seems happy.

Well, he should be.

But it's just, there used to be a time.

Shelby Foote was a great writer,

a Civil War historian.

He did the Ken Burns thing.

And he says something to the effect that

democracy is about compromise.

It's about getting in the room and shutting the door and not coming out until you have a deal.

That's it.

That's the only rule.

And Lincoln was fighting to get that back, certainly after the the war ended, the Civil War.

But that was

Shelby was talking about the Civil War and how that we couldn't compromise as what will be our

defeat as a nation.

The other thing, too, with the Reagan-Gorbachev thing,

once Reagan and Gorbachev had a deal and the Berlin Wall came down, which was an added bonus to what he was over there to do,

Gorbachev, I think, told him, you don't have an enemy in me anymore.

Your enemy now is going to be within.

Next up, much more with my conversation with visionary actor and musician, Jeff Daniels.

Stick around.

Abortion can feel like a hard topic to talk about, but getting care shouldn't be.

AbortionFinder.org is a free, secure website where you can find up-to-date info on clinics, providers, telehealth options, and state restrictions.

No judgment, no misinformation, just facts, facts, so you can make the decision that's right for you.

Millions have used Abortion Finder to get care and it's backed by trusted experts.

If you or someone you love needs answers or options, visit abortionfinder.org.

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better, clean and cold water?

Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold.

Butter?

Yep.

Chocolate ice cream?

Sure thing.

Barbecue sauce?

Tide's got you covered.

You don't need to use warm water.

Additionally, Tide Pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new Cold Zyme technology.

Just remember: if it's got to be clean, it's got to be Tide.

Monday Sidekick: the AI agent that knows you and your business, thinks ahead and takes action.

Ask at anything, seriously.

Monday Sidekick: AI you'll love to use.

Start a free trial today on Monday.com.

What are we leaving this next generation?

What is important about you playing Reagan right now?

Why does that matter?

I think it's because

we can learn from our past that history does repeat itself if we're not careful.

And I think in regards to Reagan,

There was a way that we dealt with a country, certainly a leader of a country, who was hell-bent on being at least our opponent and maybe eliminating us.

In today's world, it just feels like Putin wants to infiltrate the United States and, you know, that Trump is, you know, like

his puppet or something.

And it's just that's not

what Reagan was with Gorbachev.

He was strong.

He was strong, and he was, in his way, patriotic,

in a way that that word just gets thrown around and it's now it's taken on a political connotation.

It was patriotic if you agree with what we're doing on the right.

Right.

And

there was more of a universal thing.

That's the thing that Reagan had,

that Atticus Finch had.

They had respect for things that were bigger than them.

They respected the rule of law.

Jim Comey, that was sacred to him.

Atticus Finch, the rule of law, the right thing to do versus the wrong thing to do.

These guys were moral

giants, you know, Atticus in particular.

And

now

there is nothing bigger than Trump looking in the mirror.

When I saw you in Mockingbird, You could hear a pin drop.

People were and remain so hungry for what you just described, stories of the moral man or woman prevailing.

They are absent from our politics.

Why do you think

that they are thriving in film and failing in politics?

Well, I think they're thriving in film because they're failing in politics.

I think that will be one of the things, I hope,

where the country as a whole starts to look and realize that he is representing you.

You may think you're different than him, but you're not.

You're the bully.

You're the asshole.

That's how the world looks at us now.

I mean, shooting in Iceland for the Reykjavik movie, I mean, the whole crew was from Europe, and they were peppering me with questions about the election that was coming up between Biden and Trump.

You know,

it's who we are.

Yeah.

I hate to tell you, but that's you elected.

That's us.

That's us.

If you don't like the way that looks, if you don't like the way that's going on, get rid of them.

But it's got to be you.

And I think it reflects on us poorly, and I think we're better than that.

I think we're supposed to be better than that.

I hope the day comes when we all decide that,

you know, maybe having respect for things that are institutions that are bigger.

It's much like, you know, everyone has their God and all of that.

It's the same thing.

In Trump's world, he is God.

And that's not what the founding fathers sat around the table and came up with.

It just isn't.

And we need to respect that.

We should continue to be representing people that have a moral standing, that are looking out for other people,

who are more interested in taking care of others than they are of taking care of themselves.

Not hard.

And until then, the art and the music?

well that's that's the escape for me yeah that's the escape it's where i get to channel some stuff you know

and uh so will you play something

sure

sure

i was there on monday and it it definitely lands through your

truth and your honesty and your humor.

It does land on hope, right?

Your songs, your sets, your set list, I feel like wove a thread.

Is that there?

I make fun of some things, but

it's irreverent, but it does land on

some hopeful messages.

Yeah.

Winds its way through some weed.

Yeah.

What are you going to play?

Yeah, so

I have this song that

it's about a guy trying to pick up somebody in a bar.

And a great writer named Lanford Wilson, Pulitzer Prize Earning Playwright.

he was a mentor.

And he would say things like,

this is the best cup of coffee I've ever had.

And he would just toss that off.

And so I stole that and then wrote this.

The best damn pickup line I ever heard was by some guy in a bar south of Harrisburg.

Seen himself a woman, she was drinking all alone.

I watched him blaze a trail into her great unknown.

He sidled up smooth like a man on the make.

That empty seat beside her was his to take.

He's a darling, I know just what you think you'd think.

And bartender, I'll have what she thinks she's drinking.

drinking.

And before she knew it, he was in control.

She was a rhythm to his blue.

She was the rock to his roll.

All he had to say was, Where do we begin?

How about we cut to the chase?

Start at the end.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

He said, I bet you've lived a life past forgotten You're up for grabs, you're down untrodden Past is on your back and your future's too far And now you're where you don't know why you're where you are

He said, if somehow or other they made me king of this world, I'd turn your oyster into a gray bay pearl.

A snap of my fingers and a wave of my wand.

I'd brighten your darkness with a brand new dawn.

And before she knew it, he was in control.

She was the rhythm of his blue.

She was the rock who was rolled.

All he had to say was, Where do we begin?

I thought we cut to the chase.

Start at the end.

Before she could say a word, he was staring off in the distance like he's broken down and needed some roadside assistance.

He finally turned, looked her right straight in the eye.

He said, darling, at the risk of seeing a grown man cry.

I don't know about you, but I'd love to live in a place where I'm surrounded by love, compassion, and grace.

There ain't no castles, there ain't no thrones.

Everyone's got everyone and the ones alone.

Where there ain't no hatred, there ain't no greed.

The only thing you want is the only thing you need.

Where miracles happen and dreams come true.

Where a man

like me

yes a man

like

me

can love a woman like you

The best damn pickup line I ever heard was by some guy in a a bar, south hair is burnt.

Brought the house down on Monday.

Made him cry.

Went in doubt.

Leave him crying.

So this song

has a lot more hope than our conversation today.

Is that just the delta between art and life?

Yeah, they're at war and me, that's for sure.

I still have hope.

And Kathleen and I were, because she's livid.

You're right.

Just of what's going on and everything.

And I'm trying to

muddle through.

And

I said, look, it may come down right now to get up today and just do one thing that's good for someone else, for yourself, for someone else, one little hour of hope a day.

Let's start there because I can't keep up with the chaos.

I'm not on social media anymore.

And I say that proudly and I don't care.

But it's just this,

you just got to find the flower that comes up through the cracks of the sidewalk or something.

That's where I am right now.

I hope so,

but as someone who turns 70,

you don't want to hear from me anymore.

You're not that interested in what I have to, you know,

I'm just okay.

Got it.

Good luck.

How's 70?

I likened it to 60

is you're driving down your little town residential street at 25 miles an hour and you hit a speed bump.

That's, ooh, that's 60.

You feel it.

Yeah, you feel it.

But, you know, no problem.

You're still going where you're going.

65 is you're going down the highway at the speed limit, 70, and then you hit the speed bump there.

If you felt that one more, you didn't blow a tire.

You're okay.

You keep going.

70, you're going down the interstate driving 90,

and you hit the speed bump, and you go airborne.

And you just hope there are angels on the other end of wherever it is you land.

I love that.

That's all I got.

Jeff Daniels, thank you.

You're the best people that I've had a chance to get to know and doing my job.

Thank you, Nicole.

Thank you for doing this with us.

Thank you so much for listening to the best people.

Be sure to subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts to get this and other MSNBC podcasts ad-free.

As a subscriber, you will also get early access and exclusive bonus content.

If you've been enjoying our conversations with the best people, please be sure to rate and review the show.

Your Your reviews will help others discover the show.

All episodes of the podcast are also available on YouTube as well.

Visit msnbc.com/slash the bestpeople to watch.

The best people is produced by Vicki Vergolina and senior producer Lisa Ferry with additional support from Clara Grubberg and Rana Shabazzi.

Our audio engineer is Bob Mallory and Bryson Barnes is the head of audio production.

Pat Berkey is the executive producer of Deadline White House.

Brad Gold is the executive producer of Content Strategy.

Aisha Turner is the executive producer of audio.

And Madeline Herringer is the senior vice president in charge of audio, digital, and long form.

Search for the best people in Nicole Wallace wherever you get your podcast and follow the whole series.

Gas, groceries, eating out?

It all adds up fast.

With the Verizon Visa card, you get rewarded every time you spend.

Get 4% in rewards on gas, dining, and at grocery stores.

And you can put those rewards toward your Verizon bill or on new tech like a smartwatch and earbuds.

Apply today at Verizon.

Application required subject to credit approval must be a Verizon Mobile Account Owner or Manager or Fios account owner.

See Verizon.com/slash Verizon Visa card for terms or restrictions.

The Verizon Visa Signature Card is issued by Synchrony Bank pursuant to a license from Visa USA Inc.