The CEO Who Couldn't Stop Partying: Steven Galanis' Cameo Collapse | 73

Picture this.

You're lounging on your couch, ready to indulge in another hilariously disastrous episode of The Big Flop, but then, bam, an ad!

Don't let that be you.

With Wondery Plus, you can enjoy the big flop a whole week early and completely ad-free.

It's like having a fast pass to the front row of the VIP section.

Upgrade your listening experience and join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts.

Your uninterrupted flop fix awaits.

Talk about a problematic fave.

You all know I love Cameo and I use it to do a lot of fundraising, but I didn't know until today just how much of a party animal Cameo's CEO is.

That's right.

Today and the big flop, we're fulfilling all requests, especially if they involve fancy cars, lavish parties, and so, so, so, so much money being flushed down the drain.

NFTs can be flushed down the drain, right?

It's kind of like the digital version of an autographed picture scaled into a billion-dollar business in just four years.

The app Cameo has agreed to a settlement over misleading videos after slashing Cameo's valuation by 90%.

We

are on

a single game ship.

This season, let your shoes do the talking.

Designer Shoe Warehouse is packed with fresh styles that speak to your whole vibe without saying a word.

From cool sneakers that look good with everything, the easy sandals you'll want to wear on repeat, DSW has you covered.

Find a shoe for every you from the brands you love, like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas, New Balance, and more.

Head to your DSW store store or visit dsw.com today.

Audival's romance collection has something to satisfy every side of you.

When it comes to what kind of romance you're into, you don't have to choose just one.

Fancy a dalliance with a duke or maybe a steamy billionaire.

You could find a book boyfriend in the city and another one tearing it up on the hockey field.

And if nothing on this earth satisfies, you can always find love in another realm.

Discover modern rom-coms from authors like Lily Chu and and Allie Hazelwood, the latest romanticy series from Sarah J.

Maas and Rebecca Yaros, plus regency favorites like Bridgerton and Outlander, and of course, all the really steamy stuff.

Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash wondery.

That's audible.com/slash wondery.

From Wondery and at Will Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time.

I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar, and currently available for booking on cameo at Don't Cross a Gay Man.

And y'all, I'm so excited because today on the show, we have the perfect guests.

They're some of my favorite cameo celebs.

They are social media influencers.

They are actors, dancers, singers, comedians.

It is the mean gays themselves, Aaron Goldenberg, and Jake Jones.

Welcome to the show, besties.

Thanks for having us.

Hello.

And I should also say Chow and Ola.

I also want to say Cameo is helping us get further from being broke.

So that was interesting.

I will say that.

We have lots to say about that, but let's talk shit about somebody else first.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, so let's get it out of the way.

What's your relationship like with Cameo?

So I started years ago when I first started gaining a following.

That first year, I didn't really have a shtick with cameo.

And I think that's what limited the amount of requests I got.

When Jake and I started doing our thing around the holidays of our first like Mean Gaze thing, I was like, Jake, I think if we did our characters as the mean gaze, this would be a far more successful cameo than just us individually saying like, hey, how are you?

Happy birthday, blah, blah, blah.

And it was.

We got so many requests immediately.

And Aaron really had to convince me to get on camera.

He did not think it was a good idea.

I have this like chronic illness where I'm like, I don't believe people will pay a dime to see anything I do.

I have a feeling they don't even want to see it for free on theinternet.com.

I hope I'm giving you the best video you've ever been gifted because you just paid X amount of money for this shit.

So I'm like,

I have an anxiety about doing it, but I'm also hella grateful that anybody clicks purchase.

Yeah, I mean, I want to say, like, I, I use Cameo a lot.

I, I give a lot of my money that I make from Cameo to charity.

Last Christmas, I, I donated like thousands of dollars to No Kid Hungry because of Cameo, which was really great.

I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to stop trying to make a

piece of shit.

Okay.

Can I call my landlord charity?

Because I have to pay my rent, Nisha.

Jesus Christ.

I will say, I beat Santa Claus last year over the holidays.

So that was like my one like claim to fame on Cameo.

You better work.

But yeah, I love the app.

I love what we get to do with it and connect with the people who follow us on social media.

I'm sorry, I just have to pause.

You beat the Santa Claus on Cameo, is what you were saying.

No, no, no.

I whooped.

I thought Santa Claus

is the real Cameo.

Is the real

Santa Claus?

Jesus.

Santa Claus.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

Well, today's episode is on Stephen Galanis, co-founder and CEO of Cameo, the app that lets you order custom videos from celebrities.

Now, at its peak, the company was worth a billion dollars.

That's with a B.

But the valuation came crashing down when Stephen wasn't able to attract enough A-list talent.

Oh, and his massive spending on huge parties probably didn't help things either.

Now, full disclosure before we start the episode.

Like we've been talking about, I'm on Cameo.

That's right.

It is a fun way for me to connect with with people and it's a great way to raise money for good causes.

But to find out how things got this far, let's dive in.

So the inspiration for Cameo comes in 2016 when Stephen is at his grandmother's funeral.

Yeah, now I don't know if this is a hot take, but I'm just going to say it.

I don't think you should be brainstorming app ideas at your grandma's funeral.

Stephen is 28 years old and works for LinkedIn, but he's got a pal, Martin Blenco, who works as an NFL agent.

And at the funeral, Martin shows Steven a video.

Again, maybe a hot take, but put your phone away at a funeral.

Well, it's not, it's not my grandma.

It's not my grandma can hear.

What I was going to say was like,

the phone piece, 3,000% agree, but creativity flows in weird ways.

I'm sure all three of us can agree to that.

So if I'll have toyled a video, if I'm at a funeral and then like a really solid idea pops into my mind for a video, I might still make that video.

So, the video is of Martin's client, the football player Cassius Marsh, congratulating a friend of Martin's who's just had a baby.

And Jake, Cassius Mark is your literally

I love him as a

athlete and really

just really

of sport.

Yeah, just really great on the

football.

And he shows up well specifically on screen on screen very photo photogenic yep

so martin tells stephen that his friend loved the video and this is the light bulb moment for stephen the idea very simple you pay a celebrity to make you a personal video and cameo gets 25

So when the site debuts in March of 2017, the roster of celebrities is not just small.

It's, well, it's only one person.

Cassius is the only celebrity they have.

But Cameo, it's not going to remain small for long because Steven has a background working in TV and their lead engineer is actually also a vine star.

So they've got the know-how to get stars on board.

Early on, they managed to leverage those connections to get Tori spelling and some popular Vine creators on board.

Okay, if you were a celebrity hearing about Cameo for the first time, what would you think about the app?

Would you be jumping to join or pushing it away?

Well, even though it had a name by the time that I joined, I was hesitant.

I was like, I don't, I don't know that people are going to buy these.

And also, how much do I charge?

I was like really, really overthinking that.

Also, if you're charging $6.99, there's only going to be so many people that are able to afford that.

$699.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Not $6.99.

There's only going to be so many people that can afford that.

And maybe you only get 10 requests in two weeks, which I don't know for their

ego or mental health might be kind of wonky.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I also think there's a little bit of a perspective on Cameo.

If you are an A-lister making a Cameo, does it have the perception that you are selling out and just doing it for a money grab from these people that adore your work or your media, whatever it is, to make a minute-long video that we all know isn't the most work of all time and then cash in that greatly, I think it could come off kind of negative.

I think I agree with you.

There's a difference between, I think, what he envisioned Cameo to be with these very, very famous people just going on there and reading happy birthday and cashing in thousands of dollars compared to us who are hustlers and also coming at it from a sense of community that we've built.

You know, most of my cameos are seeking advice and seeking a pep talk.

There's a different magic to, I guess, like people like you and I and a lot of other people who are on the platform, you know, connecting with our audiences rather than just trying to cash in.

So, so people seek cheaper therapy from you instead of getting a therapist.

Yes.

Yeah.

Who's to say it's cheaper?

And who's to say you might be.

Because who knows how long these videos from Misha are.

So true.

So true.

And if I'm correct, I think you get in an hour with that.

That's my hour.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, Stephen is also a serious networker and a real people person, and he's aggressive about getting people to join.

Stephen's willing to pull out all the stops to try to oo-woo celebrities, and as we'll see, this winds up being a problem later, especially when he's chasing bigger names and has more company money to spend.

But in these early days, Stephen makes a really smart decision.

He knows he won't be able to get the biggest stars yet, though that's what he's going to try to do eventually.

So for now, he decides to go after celebs who are, as he says, more famous than they are rich.

Like us.

As Stephen puts it, my D-list celebrity might be your favorite person in the world.

So Stephen focuses on celebrities that people have nostalgia for or who are involved with obsessive fandoms.

So for example, he signs up The Soup Nazi from Seinfeld, Kevin from The Office, people from Shark Tank, The Bachelor, and The Real Housewives shows.

So there you go.

So smart, honestly.

Yeah.

And Steven's strategy, it pays off big time.

In February of 2018, less than a year after the launch of the site, Steven raises over $3 million for Cameo.

And just a few months later, during their Series A funding round, they raise another $12.5 million.

Yeah.

Thinking about the company's portfolio of they probably have very little office retail space and their major expense is most likely software development, right?

We are getting paid via the customer and they're taking a 25% commission.

Like this is a really smart business model,

which is why I'm sitting here and I'm like, I don't believe that valuation just tanked and nobody's into it anymore.

Like to me, I'm like, Cameo is still making their Kersh money.

You're right.

Cause they were making money because Kevin from the office, his real name is Brian Baumgartner.

He brought in over $3 million.

For cameo or for his

cameo.

Whoa.

Whoa.

Stephen does run into some trouble early on, though.

Trouble that involves Brett Favre.

Jake, that's another one of those

sports guys.

No, I love sport.

Brett Favre, the famous.

And he's attractive.

And he did.

And

he dated

that famous

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now, Brett Favre is not without controversy when he's not too busy getting accused of harassing women with inappropriate text or getting involved in a corruption scandal.

I never found him attractive.

Let's just say that.

I have never enjoyed him.

I think he's...

He's not even that good at the sport.

I want to just say I initially said those things and no one believed me.

Yeah.

That corruption scandal allegedly took millions of dollars in public money that was supposed to go to needy people.

But besides that, Brett is available to send you a personal happy birthday video on Cameo.

Now, we must say, Brett hasn't been criminally charged with anything and he declines to comment.

So allegedly is a thick word these days.

Allegedly.

It's a thick, wide word.

But Brett himself isn't what causes a problem for Cameo.

In November of 2018, Brett and and Soldier Boy get tricked into recording videos that contain coded anti-Semitic messages.

Now, this is an issue that could potentially bring the entire company down.

So celebrities are not going to be using Cameo if they think it's a PR nightmare waiting to happen.

Yeah.

So Steven reacts to the coded messages situation with some of those people skills that I mentioned.

He meets with Brett in person and reminds him about all of the happiness that his other videos have brought people and does a massive round of interviews to generate good press for the company.

And it works.

Steven's able to get Cameo over this potential disaster.

And Brett doesn't just stick with Cameo.

He even decides to invest money into it.

But from there, Steven and Cameo, they just keep growing, getting bigger and bigger.

In 2018, Time magazine features Cameo on their list of genius companies.

In 2019, Steven raises $50 million dollars and the company grows to having 100 employees

i have to ask when you say raises is that raises from investors or raises as in the commission they're making from users raises from investors whoa

that's quasi

I mean, I mean, yeah, it's quizzes, but it's also like they've proven to be a profitable business.

And as like any good tech startup, they would probably raise around the same.

Yeah, and that's what I was thinking, but I'm so glad you used those words and said it.

Yeah, yeah.

Now, two of those investors were Snoop Dogg and Bethany Frankel,

and they also joined the app as well.

And a lot of people say those two names side by side all the time.

You know, they're like, they're really in the same lane, they share similar brands.

Lord knows I say that all the time.

I mean, it's almost an iconic duo as like Tom Cruise and Charlie D'Amelio.

Yeah.

Mary Kate and Ashley Olson.

Yeah.

Yeah.

People are always saying those names together.

How hard is it to kill a planet?

Maybe all it takes is a little drilling, some mining, and a whole lot of carbon pumped into the atmosphere.

When you see what's left, it starts to look like a crime scene.

Are we really safe?

Is our water safe?

You destroyed our top.

And crimes like that, they don't just happen.

We call things accidents.

There is no accident.

This was 100%

preventable.

They're the result of choices by people.

Ruthless oil tycoons, corrupt politicians, even organized crime.

These are the stories we need to be telling about our changing planet.

Stories of scams, murders, and cover-ups that are about us and the things we're doing to either protect the Earth or destroy it.

Follow Lawless Planet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to new episodes of Lawless Planet early and ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

It's your man, Nick Cannon.

I'm here to bring you my new podcast, Nick Cannon at night.

I've heard y'all been needing some advice in the love department.

So who better to help than yours truly?

Nah, I'm serious.

Every week, I'm bringing out some of my celebrity friends and the best experts in the business to answer your most intimate relationship questions.

Having problems with your man?

We got you.

Catching feelings for your sneaky link?

Let's make sure it's the real deal first.

Ready to bring toys into the bedroom?

Let's talk about it.

Consider this a non-judgment zone to ask your questions when it comes to sex and modern dating in relationships, friendships, situationships, and everything in between.

It's going to be sexy, freaky, messy, and you know what?

You'll just have to watch the show.

So don't be shy.

Join the conversation and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

Want to watch episodes early and ad-free?

Join Wondery Plus right now.

Now, by January of 2020, there are more than 20,000 stars using Cameo and the company has offices in Los Angeles, London, and Australia.

But there's still something that Steven needs to do if he's going to take Cameo to the next level.

Cameo's business model is simple.

The bigger the celebrity, the more money they charge for a Cameo, which means more money in cameo's pocket.

Now, right now, they're making Kevin from the office money, but if Steven wants to start making Taylor Swift money, he's going to need even bigger stars on the platform, like, you know, Taylor Swift.

Still, things are looking up for the company in January of 2020, though we all know what happens shortly after that.

I don't remember.

In January, the Viagra patent.

My aunt broke her knee.

Well, Viagra, the patent ended, so now you can get generic stars.

Right.

I'm shocked you don't remember the things that shook the world.

Well, in most big flop stories, COVID and quarantine would send a company into its flop era.

But the pandemic actually proves to be a huge break for Steven and Cameo, taking them to even higher highs than before.

I did read this, yeah, because people couldn't go to their mom's birthday.

So they would be like, here's your favorite housewife saying happy birthday since I can't be there.

Yeah, people had a lot of time on their hands.

They also wanted to connect, right?

Specifically with celebs.

And celebs had a lot of time on their hands.

Yeah, famously, they were not used to having so much time on their hands.

Now, Cameo's revenue quadruples to $100 million.

that year.

And just like the rest of us, celebs also have more time on their hands during COVID.

And they're happy to use some of that time to make videos for their fans and also a few extra books.

Over 10,000 new stars joined the platform in 2020 alone.

Is that when you think that's one of what I'm one of the stars?

That's crazy.

Wow, you were early.

I wasn't until like late 2021.

Is anybody that joins Cameo considered a star?

Is that

I think we're all stars.

The heavy lifting.

My mom is on Cameo.

No.

Yeah.

And I purchased videos from her.

Well, you're lying, but that was really funny.

But some of those 10,000 stars, we're talking Acon, Mandy Moore.

Hi, Bestie.

Busy Phillips, Mike Tyson.

Sean Baum.

Yeah.

Now, Cameo sets up a gong in their office that they bang whenever a new celebrity signs up.

Maybe they banged for you, Aaron.

Oh, I doubt it.

But also, I would hate to work in that office.

Oh, yeah, could you imagine?

Gong banging like a hundred times a day.

No, no, thank you.

To explore what celebs are on the app at this point, let's play a game.

I love games.

So one key part of the cameo concept is that it's up to the celebs to pick how much they want to charge.

It's kind of a window into how celebrities see their own star power.

So I'm going to name a celebrity and you have to guess what they charged for a video on cameo.

This is everything.

Whoever's closest wins and we'll switch who goes first with each question.

Love.

So, Aaron, we'll start with you.

Okay.

All right.

Lindsay Lohan.

Okay.

So she was on cameo for a hot minute.

She's not now, I don't think.

Maybe she is.

She is.

Okay.

I'm going to guess Lindsay was

3,000.

Wow.

No, Lindsay was a little bit more mindful, a little bit more demure.

I think it's maybe a crispy like $9.99.

Ooh.

Like right under a K.

The answer was actually $375.

What?

From Lindsay the Lohan?

Yes.

Famously, her middle name is the.

The.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Lindsay the Lohan.

I'm sick of rumors starting.

You're sick of

being followed.

All right.

Next one.

Jake, you'll go first.

Thank you, Jesus.

Snoop Dogg.

I want to say he was at like a crispy

450.

That feels low for Snoop Dogg.

Well, now that I just heard Lindsay the Lowhan at 375, I'm a little insecure.

I'm going to say 1,000.

All right.

Well, Snoop Dogg, he started out at 420.

Yes!

Jesus.

Do you want to bring it down?

He started off at 420.

Okay, go ahead.

That's very smart.

Very good rating.

Yes.

Yeah, we expect no less from the Snoop, but major disappointment, he eventually raised his rate to $500,

which come on, Snoop, what's more important?

The extra $80 or your brand?

Wait, so

$420 because of weed.

Did you understand that?

Okay, yeah.

Can you give me just a second to say my piece?

Yeah.

I feel like everybody's raised their price.

Snoop is a businessman, first and foremost.

Let's remember that, America.

Okay.

Wouldn't we respect him to be like, I actually don't have enough time for the 420 girls.

I need to bump it to 500 to be optimal for my time, my value.

Here.

People pussypop.

Here's the thing.

What I would say with Snoop Dogg, if you're going to raise it, raise it.

Like going up $80 to me almost.

Like I said, I think he's a businessman.

Doesn't seem

in a middle, good, medium market.

I think he's still getting hella cameo requests.

Next, Misha.

Jake, you might be very excited about this one.

This one is Jeff Probst, host of Survivor.

Okay, can I tell you something I'm afraid of?

He just orgasmed.

I'm afraid people paid hella money for him because people ride for that man.

Like when you said cult following, I maybe want to say like a sticky but sweet $695.

Hmm.

What about you, Aaron?

I'm going to say $350.

This might shock you.

$20.

Yes.

I just came.

He says that he keeps his his videos inexpensive so that he doesn't price out any of his fans.

But also,

this is why he is a golden.

He would get so many requests.

How does he keep up with that?

They've got to be 15-second cameras.

You can cap your requests per day.

That's true.

That's true.

Well, as 2020 goes on, they're getting ready to sell their 1 millionth cameo.

And to celebrate and promote the app, Steven and Cameo decide they're going to do something crazy expensive.

At this point, Steven's got a ton more money to throw around, and he might be thinking, Hey, we're an app full of celebrities, it's time to spend like a celebrity.

So they're going to send a celeb and one of their fans to space, of course.

And they're calling it one giant leap for fankind.

Yeah.

So ultimately, though, Steven decides not to go ahead with the promotion after George Floyd's death and the protests that followed.

But Steven knows that if the app is going to keep growing and pulling in even more money, it's going to come down to one thing, which of course is getting even bigger celebrities.

And Steven is pushing to get those names on the platform to the point where it maybe starts to look a little desperate.

Cameo's talent managers are told to contact celebs a minimum of 100 times a day and doubling that during Cameo's busiest season, the holidays.

From what I understand, that actually manifests the exact opposite of what they want to happen.

I don't know if Steven wants to call me and we can chat through that, but that is also labeled as harassment.

Allegedly.

I also am, I'm far less likely to open an email from somebody if they're like, this is our third time trying to contact you.

Trying to trying to restore restore you.

This is our third time trying to contact you.

This is our third trimester, and we're struggling.

Yeah, same.

But if things are getting a little desperate behind the scenes and Steven's spending is maybe getting a little out of control to the general public, Cameo still looks like a sure thing because in early of 2021, Cameo raises $100 million

from investors and gets valued at $1 billion.

So not too shabby.

So with Cameo at its peak, Steven throws a massive company retreat called Cameo Palooza.

Now, once again, he's willing to spend big bucks.

He pulls out all the stops for this bash.

There are performances by Kenny G, Vanilla Ice, and cast members from Hamilton.

They feast on fondue fountains and seafood towers.

And there's a singing contest judged by Paula Abdul.

Yeah.

I mean, he had all the star power and all of these things.

It was, this party was for 300 employees.

By the way, these 300 employees, he calls them the Fameo.

That's actually cute.

I like that dad joke.

And see, I'm thinking like Cameo Palooza and Fameo, like he needs, he needs a couple of the girls and the gays on his like branding name team.

So, as far as most people can tell, things are looking great for Steven and Cameo, but in private, some people are feeling like Cameo may have gotten as big as it's gonna get.

Bethany Frankel, who remember was one of the earliest celebrity investors in the site, sells her Cameo shares for a seven-figure return.

And even Steven and other cameo founders sell some of their shares.

So that makes people nervous.

But why do you think Steven and other cameo shareholders might be getting nervous and selling off at this point?

I think with COVID not being

as

like COVID itself was a very profitable time for Cameo.

And then with the pandemic coming to a close, they probably saw a decline coming.

I also think like part of the natural behavior of having any level of equity in a firm is at some point selling it.

And sadly, the trend is once one person sells it and cashes out pretty well, other people get the idea and harness that and want to go with that.

I think all of those points are very valid and probably contributed to a lot of why they were feeling a little bit nervous.

I also think that he had a very particular idea of what he was selling and that was those A-list celebrities.

And I think they're starting to realize that they were going to be a lot harder to get than he expected.

But whatever the reasons in public, Steven and Cameo are still spending like there's no tomorrow.

They spend $60,000 a month to rent a swanky Beverly Hills mansion with a big pool, and they call it the Cameo House.

This is going back to his like content creation ways when he was friends with people from Vine.

They're like, let's, let's do like, you know, Hype House.

You know, Hype House, right?

We got to do something like Hype House.

I mean, I feel like, yeah, he's like, hey, Brad Pitt, if you come join Cameo, you can come party with us at the Cameo house.

It's just like Hype House.

Brad Pitt, have you ever been in a big house before?

Yeah, but again, that reeks of desperation to me, which I think people were starting to smell.

But he's throwing around even more cash, trying to get bigger celebs on the platform.

And it's starting to look, like I said, more desperate.

They spend six figures just to get Ian Summerholder from the vampire diaries.

Okay,

but here's the thing: he needs to be captured on film often.

Yes,

yes.

I feel like I would pay for a cameo from Ian Summerholder.

I would not because I can Google search images and videos of him.

But I want him talking to me

and saying, like, remember when we were lost on that island together?

Well, Cameo is spending massive amounts of money trying to get new talent on the site, and it is not working, which could spell serious trouble.

So what does Steven do?

He throws another huge party, of course, a friends giving at Cameo House.

For the Fameo.

Yeah.

Yeah, for the Fameo, exactly.

You know what they say?

If at first you don't succeed, do the same thing over, expecting different results.

Period.

And people say this all the time.

That does not mean you're crazy.

That does not mean insanity.

That's not the definition.

Well, speaking of the same, they've got guests like Paula Abdul at this one.

I miss her so much.

She was like, I've been sitting on my hands waiting for this invite.

Paula, I've missed you, babe.

Well, by the time 2022 rolls around, Cameo employees are extremely fed up with Steven.

That's right.

The Fameo, they've had enough.

The Fameo's pissed.

They're pissed.

I guess throwing big company parties aren't a substitute for being a good boss.

Now, once a week, a portion of every staff meeting is dedicated just to Stephen's thoughts.

Aka, Stephen riffs about whatever pops into his head for as long as he wants.

I mean, he overshares in big ways, talking about how he has a longevity specialist and that his specialist said that his biological age is 44, even though he's only 35.

It's like, what?

Wait, that's horrible.

That's a

biological age is so much older than I am.

Are you dying?

I'm only 36, but I have the lungs of a 72-year-old.

Yeah.

And these are just some of my thoughts I'd like to share with you guys.

Maybe employees would be willing to put up with all of this if the company was doing better, but it's not.

Period.

Steven's still not able to get this A-list talent he's wanting.

And at this point, Steven and Cameo are getting desperate enough that they're willing to start booking people like the Tinder Swindler and Andrew Tate.

Now, that's just smart.

They're also looking into people like Billy McFarland, Mr.

Firefest himself, and Martin Shkrelli on the app, along with Rachel Dolajal.

Now, you may recall that Billy, Martin, and Rachel have all had their very own big flop episodes.

It's like Stephen is going through.

our archives and finding people to join the app.

But the fact that Stephen is welcoming these folks folks with open arms doesn't just piss off employees.

It also causes some celebrities that Cameo does have rethink whether they want to be associated with the app anymore.

Be a part of the Fameo.

Totally.

Because it's not always like when you're here, you're not always Fameo.

You know what I mean?

And it's also not like Twitter or Instagram where anybody can get an account and it's not, you know, like this is invite only.

So how does Stephen respond to these worried folks?

Stephen basically says these crazy employees and celebrities don't know what they're talking about.

He belittles anyone who raises concerns about the type of people doing cameos.

This is how you treat your fameo, Stephen.

Now, Steven also does what so many other tech bros who are totally out of ideas did at the time.

He gets really into crypto.

He has Cameo start selling NFTs.

So that'll definitely turn things around, right?

Aaron, do you know what an NFT is?

A non-fungible token.

I cannot tell.

I'm proud of you.

Anything else other than that?

No, but I do know what it's told

on the internet.

Online.

Well, the owners of these cameo NFTs aren't just getting art.

They also get access to exclusive events and

parties at the Cameo house.

Jeez.

I do love it that was

a partio.

Just everything, everything is with an EO at the end for cameo.

Yeah.

Where's the bathroom bathroom EO?

Yeah, it's over there.

Yeah.

Stephen, he always finds a way to bring things back to the partio.

So let's check out what these cameo NFTs look like.

Oh,

uh-huh.

Okay, I see the cameo symbol on the first one.

On the first one.

Yeah.

Can you describe these for the listeners?

Sure.

I'm going to be so honest with you, Misha, I wouldn't even know where to start.

This first one on the left kind of looks like a trippy power, like neon, just signs, symbols.

It kind of looks like I could have made it in like a children's science museum.

Yeah, this looks like my 15-year-old girl Bestie in high school got some glow-in-the-dark markers and then was like, watch this.

And then she brought out her like portable black light.

And this is what came up.

It doesn't look, yeah, it's, I wouldn't pay for this.

Number two, I actually,

I like it.

I like that little puppy dog just like laying there living that life.

It reminds me of my previous puppy.

And I also love the octopus toy right next to it.

I'm going to be honest, if I would have bought one, it would be this one.

And then the third one just looks like AI made this mess.

I'm, yeah.

It's, it's like toast.

Don't get me wrong.

I do like the third one.

I think it's like fun, rambunctious for the listeners.

It is a bunch of hands kind of just elongated chaotically in the kitchen, all over the kitchen.

Making coffee.

Toast.

We've got a poached egg with bacon.

It's like Mr.

Stretch from the Fantastic Four.

And then they're looking out a window and the horizon has a piece of toast looking at the yolk of the egg.

Yeah.

Cosplaying as the sun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So strange.

Well, now in fairness to Steven, when it comes to NFTs, he is putting his money where his mouth is.

He spends over $300,000 on a board ape NFT of his own.

So Cameo's business is starting to dry up, and it may take a while for the NFT end of the business to take off, but at least Steven can rely on investor cash to help get them through this rough patch, right?

Well, in March of 2022, it starts to look like interest rates are going to go up.

Spoiler alert, they do.

And that means it's going to be a lot harder for companies to pull in the massive amounts of investor cash that they've gotten used to.

So it's big trouble for Cameo.

Just two months later, in May, Steven fires a full quarter of the company's staff.

So this is a huge turning point that could make or break the company.

And Steven is laser focused on one thing.

Throwing more parties.

I had a feeling you were going to say that, Misha.

Wait, so now the really extravagant party for the Fameo is only for 150 people rather than 300?

Yeah.

That means you'd probably get to kiss Paula Abdul on on the lips this time.

Yeah.

Wow.

But actually, this next massive bash in Miami is just for the people who bought cameo NFTs.

Oh, okay.

Discriminatory.

Got it.

I feel like there was not

a gay person in sight is my guess.

Just off the top of my head.

I would say, I mean, I know this was like subjective to like where they held the event, but I'm sure there was like, I don't know, like the event coordinator

probably was a homosexual and probably was standing off to the side, like, I can't believe I just did this.

Yeah, yeah, I sold my soul.

Well, you will not be shocked to learn that Steven's focus on partying and NFTs does not help Cameo turn the business around.

What?

No.

This is shocking continuously.

I knew we were on the Big Flop podcast, but I did not expect you to say that.

No.

Yeah, I mean, once everybody finally realizes how dumb NFTs are, the price of cameos NFTs plummet from $630 all the way down to less than $8.

Now, Aaron, that is not a good thing.

Just FYI.

Yeah, that's not a good thing.

I understand.

That's not good.

I don't know much about

money, but

that doesn't sound good to me.

Steven's also finding it impossible to attract new investors.

Maybe because he's spending too much time partying.

I don't know.

But as the company burns through more money, Steven has to make even more cuts.

And by 2023, they're down to just 33 employees.

And Cameo's valuation, which was once a billion dollars, collapses by 90%.

And that I also feel like is probably not good, right?

Am I correct?

So it turns out that's not going to be good either.

Yeah, that's not good.

Just

trust your instinct on this, Aaron.

You're doing great.

Maybe I should.

Should I start a business?

I literally think you're like an an econ expert at this point.

I think I could just start any business and throw fewer parties, and it would be a success.

So there are even more celebrities leaving the app.

Elijah Wood and Mike Tyson both got off the app in 2023.

Elijah Wood.

You love him.

And as if the financial problems weren't enough, just this year, Cameo reached a settlement with attorneys general from 30 states because they allegedly didn't properly label videos in which stars were making paid endorsements.

They, of course, admit to no wrongdoing.

No, that is so sad.

Now, there is good news, though.

The fine is only $600,000,

but there's also bad news.

Steven and Cameo don't even have that much cash.

Okay, I'm sitting here like

the amount of cameos we do and the amount of money they're making, knowing that they at that point only have 33 employees, where's that money going, Aaron?

I don't know.

Probably.

Alicia, where is that money going?

Because they're making heavy cash flow.

Okay.

They have to pay Paula Abdul for all of her.

I was going to say the same thing.

Paula Abdul's expensive job.

The server rate is crazy.

It's at least $6.99 per appearance.

Yeah.

Well, they do reach a settlement where they only have to pay $100,000.

But if they mess up again, they're going to be on the hook for the other half million.

Now, at this point, that's a payment that could bankrupt the company.

I mean, it's an incredible fall for a company that was once worth a billion dollars.

So, if you were in charge of Cameo, how would you try to turn this around?

I think we go back to what worked, like what made Cameo successful in the first place.

And I think that would mean for me, we start another pandemic.

Yo, that is so smart.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like,

just go back to what was working.

Yeah.

I do think maybe like it sounds like Steven with his e-gio.

His ego.

You have to stop.

I got to chill out.

Yeah, I'm so sorry.

Steven with his ego.

I do wish more CEOs stepped down when they weren't doing a great job.

Well, let's do a little, where are they now?

So Steven is still the head of Cameo, and he seems to have given up on the dream of making Cameo a hub for A-listers.

He recently did an interview where he said, we would rather sell $1 million, $1 Cameos than $1 million Cameo.

Okay.

Once again, Steven's ignoring the good ways the platform can be used and the people doing good work on there, but he's happy to make Cameo the place to go if you want to spend $1 on a birthday greeting from a potentially very shady person who you may or may not have even heard of.

Now, some more bad news for Steven.

His board ape NFT that he purchased was stolen by hackers along with almost $70,000 worth of his crypto.

Oh,

that is not ape

man crypto.

No.

Not hackering.

Not

non-fungible token hacking.

I thought he was so safe.

We thought this was going to start really going well for Steven.

So here on the big flop, we try to be positive people and end on a high.

So are there any silver linings that you can think of that have come about because of Cameo?

I have like just the silver lining of if the company is up and running, profits still remain, and you don't be overly ambitious with this like crazy capitalistic country that we live in where every single year you need to have capital growth of like over 100%.

I think we keep forgetting that a company that's able to stay afloat and still give people good jobs, including being able to make talent money the way they are and the safety of their home, not leaving, but also giving great gifts to people.

Maybe it's those pep talks, like that's the silver lining in it all.

I will say that, like, even just from our silly cameos, there are people that have like DM'd us afterwards being like, oh my God, my sister was crying when she got your cameo.

Like in a good way, you know, like they were, it provides some kind of

special touch of a gift or joy for some people or just like a connection with somebody they may have thought they would never ever meet or speak to in their life.

And it's bringing them into their phone for a video they can keep forever.

I think the

more we get used to parasocial relationships and the more that becomes the norm, I do think that these are special little gifts and a way for people to connect.

And I, like you, I've gotten many, many DMs and messages saying that the Cameo meant something to them and was very helpful.

So I think there's a lot of excitement to it and a lot of potential there.

Well, now that you both know about Cameo, the company that went from being worth hundreds of millions of dollars to having trouble scraping together 500 grand, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop?

I'm going to say a big flop, not quite mega, because they are still around.

It's not like,

and they're still, I mean, I don't know what their profits are for this year, but they're still around.

There's still huge celebrities on there.

And it doesn't seem like they're going anywhere.

Maybe there's more stuff going on behind the scenes and decisions being made, but I'm going to say big flop just because they've had some hard times.

Yeah.

Obviously, like if you have equity in Cameo, huge mega flop.

Like, sorry, girl.

Yeah, yeah.

But from somebody on the outside feeling and not knowing any of this information to start start and actually being a part of Cameo in a very small way, I literally think it's such a baby flop.

Cute.

Well, thank you so much to our guests, Cameo stars Aaron Goldenberg and Jake Jones.

Go check them out on Cameo for joining us here on the Big Flop.

And thanks to all of you for listening.

If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review.

We'll be back next week with an all-you-can-eat flop, the restaurant that couldn't fathom how many shrimp constitutes an endless buffet and didn't realize we were all there for the cheddar bay biscuits anyway.

It's Red Lobster.

Bye.

Bye, Misha.

Thank you guys so much.

I want the big flop.

If you like the big flop, you can listen early and ad-free on Wondery Plus.

Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Prime members can listen ad-free on on Amazon Music.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

The Big Flop is a production of Wondering and At Will Media, hosted by Misha Brown, produced by Sequoia Thomas, Harry Huggins, and Tina Turner.

Written by Anna Rubinova and Luke Burns.

Engineered by Zach Rapone with support from Andrew Holtzberger.

The video podcast is edited by Olivia Vessel.

Managing producer is Molly Gekman.

Executive producers are Kate Walsh and Will Malnotti for At Will Media.

Legal support by Carolyn Levin of Miller, Korzynik, Summers, and Raymond.

Senior producers for Wondery are Adam Azaraff, Matt Beagle, and Jennifer Klein Walker.

Managing producer is Sarah Mathis and the senior managing producer is Callum Plus.

Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Freesong Sync.

Theme song is Sinking Ship by Cake.

Executive producers are Lizzie Bassett, Dave Easton, and Marshall Louie for Wondery.

And now, a next level moment from AT ⁇ T Business.

Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows, and they need to be there in time for International Sleep Day.

You've got AT ⁇ T 5G, so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding, and International Sleep Day is tomorrow.

Luckily, AT ⁇ T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease, so the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you.

AT ⁇ T 5G requires a compatible plant and device.

Coverage not available everywhere.

Learn more at ATT.com slash 5G network.