Chimp Crazy: Tonia Haddix's Great Ape Escape with Grace Helbig and Mamrie Hart | 72

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I have a serious question for all my fellow 90s kids.

Why did all our favorite movies feature exotic animals?

Free Willie, Babe, George of the Jungle, Buddy?

And who was managing all of these animal actors?

And where did they all go?

Well, today on the big flop, we're going chimp crazy and talking about Tanya Haddocks, a handler who went bananas for chims and who might just end up in a human zoo.

You know, prison.

A movie stars please, a missing chimpanzee, an owner accused in its disappearance.

For many of these chimp owners, they view these primates as their children and they're not willing to just give them up.

What good would it do for me to fake Tonka's death?

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From Wondery and at Will Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time.

I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar who's got a great party trick with a banana at Don't Cross a Gay Man.

And today, we have a comedian, co-host of This Might Get Weird, and a New York Times best-selling author with her new cookbook, All I Think About is Food.

It's Maimry Hart.

Welcome, Bestie.

It is a pleasure to be here.

Let's get wild.

Also on our show, we have an actress, a YouTube star, fellow co-host of This Might Get Weird.

It's Grace Helping.

Woo-woo!

Hi.

Woo-hoo.

That's right.

Welcome to the show, you two.

Thank you for having us.

So before we get into the story, let's like break some ice.

How do we feel about exotic or unusual pets?

Ooh.

Well, Mamri's dog could potentially be classified in the exotic and unusual.

Ow.

We are starting this with a disc.

No, no, that is the most flattering thing.

Beans is a unique and special creature that God has blessed us with on this earth.

It's true.

I have two hairless dogs.

So in a way, they're like half canine, half reptile.

You know, they feel like an elephant or a seal.

But no, as far as exotic animals go, I'm fascinated.

by people who have them.

It's a certain type of person.

However, I'm a vegetarian.

I'm a lover of the animals.

You know, I'm like, I want to know everything about these owners while I also think they should be in prison.

Yeah, it's a it's a like darkly complex psychology that happens here because there's a deep desire for love, but it does cross lines that I think are unsafe all around, but it's endlessly fascinating.

Spoiler, Grace has a psychology

degree.

So bottle up, Misha.

And she will let us know.

It's always a mommy issue.

Well, our our story today is about Tanya Haddocks, a middle-aged nurse whose obsession with primates led her to orchestrate a heist that led activists and authorities on a wild goose chase for a missing celebrity chimpanzee.

So let's begin.

with the bizarre business of raising and training showbiz animals.

Now, in addition to primates, 90s movies featured a lot of animal protagonists of all types.

I mean, dogs were everywhere, like the Lassie reboot, Beethoven, The Golden Retriever from Full House, Airbud.

There were parrots in films like Polly.

Dolphins and killer whales were huge at the time.

What's your favorite animal film from your childhood?

I mean, Free Willie brings up

a lot of memories.

I don't know if that film would play today very well after Blackfish came out.

But that was like, I mean, that was a big moment.

Cause I feel like, I feel like it always hit.

Obviously, I loved the Ace Venturas, et cetera.

But it always hit when the protagonist was the exact age as you.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You can see yourself in their shoes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

With a killer whale jumping over me to freedom.

What 10-year-old didn't want to stand on a rock bed with a killer whale

reaching the ocean?

Homeward Bound, I feel like, was very,

that really sparked some emotional

memories.

That was like, is this for children?

Should this be for children?

Wait, what about you, Misha?

Oh, I don't know.

Wasn't there a monkey in Richie Rich?

Yeah, you're not rich unless you have a campuchin, baby.

Yeah.

Well, chimp breeding for film and TV became quite profitable for a second, and that's because chimps became illegal to import into the U.S.

in the 1970s due to the Endangered Species Act signed into law by President Nixon.

Woo!

Big fan.

Just kidding.

So even though wild chimps were classified as endangered and couldn't be captured or traded, if you already had some chimps, you could breed them, train them, sell them, use them for experiments, pretty much anything depending on local state laws.

Wow.

So A lady named Connie Casey cornered the market.

At her facility in Festus, Missouri, Casey raised over 40 chimps who were sold to private buyers or trained to act in movies and pose for print campaigns.

And her chimp for hire business is called Chimp Party.

I thought it was going to be the chimp pimp.

This opportunity, Connie.

Yeah, much better.

But name aside, it boasts a lucrative little roster.

Her company does.

For example, Connor is the hallmark chimp.

Let's take a little look at a photo.

Yep.

Wow, that's a good-looking chimp.

Yeah, that chimp went to Barbazon.

Yeah.

Could you describe these for the listeners?

So we have a classic chimp.

This is a chimp who used white strips.

Yes, Connor pops off the pages to wish you a happy birthday with a high five.

Friendly, outgoing.

Like you want to get to know Connor.

Yeah, you have a meal with Connor.

Yeah, yeah.

He feels safe.

Like you want him to be your babysitter

what that sounds a little too fantasy for me

that feels like the premise of a 90s movie sure yeah yeah don't tell mom my babysitter's a chimp yeah

okay based on that follow-up question what kind of person gives people these cards Oh, I would say aunts and uncles.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is a solid aunt card.

This is like, mom's silly, and I get it, and I'm cool, but I don't know any of your hobbies.

I don't know a thing about you.

100%.

Well, although Connor might be more ubiquitous, a chimp named Tonka is an even bigger star, or he was in the 90s.

So let's play a clip.

This is from the 1997 film Buddy, starring Renee Russo and Alan Cumming.

It's actually starring a gorilla puppet, but there are lots of real animals in it, including Tonka.

Here we go.

Wow.

We really did whatever we wanted in the 90s.

Yeah, the 90s were a different time.

Just giving a wild chimp a kitten.

I know.

Yeah, that's the animal act I want.

Chimps are not allowed to have their own pets.

But what do you think about Tonka?

Could you describe Tonka?

Tonka is textbook cutie.

Yeah, made for the silver screen.

Yeah, exactly.

Like he wouldn't do Hallmark cards because he's too good looking.

Like if I walked into an auditioning room and Tonka was there, I'd be like, I gotta go.

I'm out of here.

There's no way I got this.

Yeah, he's little.

He's in his little sweater vest.

He's adorable.

He also stars in George of the Jungle, so he is probably the chimp you think of when you think chimp in movie.

He got to be with the hottest version of Brendan Fraser.

Good for you, Tonka.

Good for you.

And he remembers it fun.

So while Tonka is busy being a simian starlet, Tanya Haddocks is a young wife.

She marries a much older man when she is just 19 years old.

And her husband doesn't believe in women working outside of the home.

I wish.

I know.

I wish.

It's actually dreams.

I said it like it was a problem.

It's actually what we should all strive to become.

My vision board.

Yeah.

But she is lonely and kind-hearted.

And she begs her husband to foster kids and ends up fostering 75 human children.

75

children?

Yeah.

Wow.

Wow.

Okay.

One for every year her husband had been alive.

Yes.

Yes.

But her heart just never seems to be full.

She ends up adopting a daughter who was born with fetal alcohol syndrome and having a son of her own.

And then when they're old enough to have their own hobbies, she starts dabbling in some monkey business.

That is to say, raising capuchin monkeys.

The gateway monkey.

Yeah.

The gateway monkey.

There you go.

And then

she starts thinking about how cool it would be to own a chimp.

So with that being said, let's play a game.

Woohoo!

I'm going to ask you some questions about chimps and you're going to try to guess the answer.

Okay?

Great.

First question.

Can chimps type?

I mean, I think Tonka was cranking out his acting resumes left and right.

Yeah, he's got like a 60-word count word per minute.

We're going to say yes.

Yes, you are absolutely correct.

Ding, ding, ding.

Chimps can understand symbols, not letters, and can use modified keyboards to communicate.

They can also use sign language.

So they're great little communicators.

Wow, a little hieroglyphic keyboard?

Yeah.

I'll take a pen pal.

Second question.

Can all chimps use tools?

All chimps.

All chimps is a bold statement.

Yeah, this is like SATs where you're like, why would they word it like this if it wasn't true?

Exactly.

I'm going to say false.

False.

That most chimps can.

Chimps that really want to.

Okay, ding, ding, ding.

You are absolutely correct.

No, not all chimps can automatically use tools.

I mean, tool use is a cultural phenomenon.

Some groups of chimps have figured stuff out, others haven't, just like humans.

Besides tools, chimps have been observed using chewable medicinal plants to cure stomach aches and parasitic infections.

What?

Wow.

These chimps could truly thrive in Los Angeles.

Now, that's chimp crazy.

I mean, if I could go to a chimp and they'd be like, here's some milkweed for your diarrhea, I'd be like, take all my money.

There you go.

100%.

Next question.

For domesticated chimps, ageism is a huge problem in showbiz.

How old is too old for a chimp?

Chimps live to like 40, right?

50.

Yeah.

So I'd say once they've hit 10 years old, 10.

Okay.

I think unless you're getting a full like, you know, bleff plasty, some Botox.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Those like weird strings,

then you're out.

Yeah.

Okay.

We'll say 10.

10 is the over the hill.

All right.

Close, but not quite.

Eight.

Eight.

Wow.

Eight.

And I will let you know that you already answered our last question, that in fact, chimps' life expectancy is around 50 years old.

Wow.

Okay.

Wow.

Here we go.

But they can only work till eight.

So, yeah, chimps are way too strong to handle and need safe enclosures to prevent maulings.

So all chimps you see in movies are usually no more than five years old.

Wow.

Little babies.

Little, little.

So cute.

Oh, man.

Speaking of maulings, next question.

How much stronger than a human is the average chimp?

Ooh, like five times.

I'm going to say.

I'm going to say 10.

We're going 10 again.

Wow.

Hulk smash.

No, not quite.

They are four times stronger.

Dang.

That's still very strong.

It's still very scary.

I mean, four times my strength isn't still very scary.

For someone who works out, it sounds impressive.

Yeah.

But they do like to play rough and have temper tantrums.

So that strength is brutal when they bring it out.

So, yeah, the last question was going to be about their lifespan.

But I mean, if you think about them having to retire by like eight years old, that means domesticated chimps can spend up to 40 years inside of a cage oh i would be mall

i would be mal madness yeah yeah yeah

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So by 2017, Tanya Haddocks's two kids are all grown up, and so are the capuchin monkeys she's doted over.

And she's always wanted her very own chimpanzee.

So she pays a visit to Connie Casey, Infestis.

Haddocks, she's immediately hooked.

She volunteers once a week, then two days a week, then three.

Then she quits nursing completely and starts to work full-time at chimp party, living in an RV on the lot of the chimp campground.

Can you imagine that you go to the hospital and the nurse that you have is like, here's a picture of my kids and just shows you all the monkeys that she owns?

That's

what I'd be like, no, don't stick me with that idea.

I'm about to get good drugs.

Yeah.

What's the closest you've come to quitting your job to follow your weird passion?

This is it, yeah.

We kind of win it.

Like,

I got to quit working at Houston.

Yeah, I got to quit bartending at City Crab Seafood Company.

So, in a way, we relate to Tanya.

In a way, we are in the RV at chimp party of our lives.

Well, all is well for Haddocks until Casey is dogged by the animal-loving fiends

PETA.

Now, PETA, as you probably know, gives no Fs.

They are known for their well-meaning and relentless campaigns to stop animal cruelty.

There's the 1982 Rather Go Naked Than Wear Fur campaign, where activists strutted around naked outside of a big Japanese fur expo.

They've used grisly photos of cowheads and dead animals to force McDonald's to improve animal welfare on their farms.

And in 2022, in Australia, human activists were wrapped up in giant grocery store meat packages to convince consumers to go vegan.

Wow.

I mean, they are extremely effective, and they've set their sights on Casey, who they alleged were keeping her chimps in unsafe and unsanitary conditions.

And they can legally get involved in the welfare of these animals because in 2015, the Endangered Species Act is updated to include domesticated chimps.

Okay.

That's great.

That's great.

We need some regulation.

Yeah, I get it.

Go, Nixon.

So, because of the PETA's pressure campaign, Casey and Haddocks get to work offloading some of their chimps until they whittle their numbers down to just seven.

They also restructure Chimp Party and convert it to a non-profit organization called the Missouri Primate Foundation.

That's crazy.

That is wild.

I mean, you either got to go nonprofit or church.

Yeah.

Can you imagine seven chimps just standing at an altar?

I'd be like,

I tithe.

I tithe.

I tithe.

I tithe.

A chimp just giving you communion.

They're giving you a little wine.

Love it.

Love it.

Well, we've got new plans for our future.

Yeah.

We have a business that we need to start pitching.

Yeah, you're going to give up your weird job of podcasting to go for your passion.

Chimp Monastery.

Yeah.

So the Missouri Primate Foundation, it's a nice sounding name, but it belies a world of trouble.

While Casey and Haddocks can support themselves with some combination of Hallmark and chimp-earned residuals and maybe some generous donations, the condition they're keeping their animals in does seem pretty grim.

Alan Cumming, who fell in love with Tonka on the set of Buddy, is actually a spokesperson for PETA.

And when he finds out that Tonka is still alive and being held in what he understands to be an unsuitable environment, he decides to take action.

Now, speaking of action, just for fun, let's see his PETA campaign.

Audible gap.

Oh, what?

Wow.

This is real.

This is real.

Yeah.

Wow.

They really do whatever they want.

Is that romaine?

That's a head of

romaine.

Well,

wow.

I don't know if that's the vegetable I would have chose.

Yeah, so for the listeners, this is Alan Cumming sitting upon a bar in the nude, just holding a long head of romaine over a suggested area of his body.

He's just hanging hog.

He just had to use a whole head of romaine.

Yeah, this makes me want a cheeseburger.

I don't know.

I've never seen him smile that hard.

He's having a great time.

I think he said the devil's list.

Okay.

Well, once Cumming joins the fight, the campaign gains traction, and a former volunteer at Chimp Party, Angela Scott, becomes a double agent for PETA.

Now, Scott, she's a well-meaning animal lover, and even though she really wanted to work for Connie at first and she loves chimps herself, she feels really disturbed by the conditions the chimps were kept in.

So, wearing camera glasses provided by PETA, she captures footage of the facility.

And the video shows unsanitary cages full full of garbage, roaches, and piles of feces.

But also, what a dream come true to wear camera glasses.

I know.

That is like my childhood dream.

Well, I mean, it works.

It works.

Because this is exactly the sort of evidence PETA needs to file a lawsuit against Casey and allege that Casey has violated the newly updated Endangered Species Act.

So they slap Casey with a 365-page report to force Casey to either fix up her facility or give up her kids.

Whoa.

Casey isn't actually found guilty of anything in court, but it's all enough to scare both Casey and Tanya.

If you were Tanya Haddocks, what do you do now?

That, yeah, it's trouble in paradise.

Yeah, well, I believe she loves these chimps, so she's gonna, she's gonna stick around.

She's gonna help.

Well, she calls them her children, which is wild because she has actual children.

Yeah.

She's gonna teach a chimp to mop is what she's gonna do.

Well, this is what Tanya does.

With Connie Casey getting a bit older and losing steam, Tanya Haddocks takes charge of her entire operation.

And both women agree that Haddocks should legally take ownership of Casey's chimps since PETA's target is just Casey for now.

So with zero formal trading, and half a million dollars, Haddocks does her best to clean up the facility to prevent seizure of the chimps.

She does not succeed.

In 2020, a chimp named Carrie escapes and a neighbor finds the chimp in her living room and luckily scares it away.

Then it terrorizes drivers on a highway just outside Festus.

And then two more chimps escape and their locks are discovered to be unsecured.

I mean, what do you do if you, let's say you've been in a house forever, it's totally paid off, and then the woman beside you decides to open a chimp sanctuary.

Like, I can't, I want to hear the perspective of the neighbors.

My neighbor's got a barky dog, and I'm like, this must end.

It must smell.

Oh, man.

So with three of her chimps escaping, how do you think she responds?

Obviously, she frees them all.

She realizes the error of her ways, you know, realizes that maybe she should truly love her children, her real children, and see what happens.

Well, she blames PETA and says they deliberately snuck into the facility and must have unlocked the cages themselves to make Haddocks and Casey look bad.

We all have had a friend like Tanya that eventually just go, this is toxic.

We need to stop being friends.

Yes, I've never used this word before, but Delulu.

Delulu.

She's so young and handy.

Yes.

The court does not buy it and rules that the Missouri Primate Foundation, formerly known as Chimp Party, has to give up all seven remaining chimps in their care over to a PETA-approved accredited sanctuary in Florida.

And in June of 2021, the dreaded day arrives.

As PETA's vets and enforcers come to transport the chimps, Haddocks is ordered to stay two miles away from the facility so as not to cause any trouble.

The specificity.

It's truly like, let's take a look at her.

Yeah, she'd be too winded to get two miles.

Guys, she's a mile and a half.

She's approaching.

She's approaching.

Like, couldn't get on a lime scooter and get there in time.

But the real question is: is she already up to something?

Because when PETA arrives to take the seven chimps from the compound, one is missing.

Tonka.

PETA accuses Haddocks of stealing Tonka.

Tanya insists Tonka has passed away.

I mean, he'd be 30 years old at this point, and the idea of hiding a chimp sounds preposterous.

Remember, by age six or seven, they become very difficult to handle.

Now, on the other hand, Tanya's story seems shaky.

Now, Tonka did have a stroke, and a vet, according to Haddocks, diagnosed Tonka with congestive heart failure.

But the timing seems just a little bit too convenient, right?

Then there's the question of Tonka's remains.

Like, where's the body buried?

Literally.

Well, funny, we should say that because Haddocks has the body cremated and provides PETA and the judge in charge of the case with a sworn written statement by the guy who burned Tonka's remains.

Unfortunately, the statement says the remains were burned in a pit at 170 degrees.

Does that sound right

to you?

You can't roast a bulb of fennel at 170.

My oven doesn't go below 220.

Yeah, I mean, 170 degrees is maybe just out enough.

Do you dehydrate some rosemary in your air fryer?

Not you giving me an image of a dehydrated chimp.

But had it, she does have an excuse for that.

Now, her friend, who happens to be in the funeral business and who performed the cremation, corrects himself and says he left off a zero in a rush to write the statement.

Here's the problem.

This friend is also Haddix's second husband, Jerry Oswegan.

Insane.

The roster this woman has had.

The absolute confidence she has in putting this forward as truth is mind-blowing.

Well, PETA also hires a forensic anthropologist to perform a mock cremation.

Now, his goal is to compare Haddock's baggie of remains, which is a super fine, lightly brown powder, with the ashes he creates by cremating pig and cow bones.

The cremation experiment yields large bone fragments, not a fine powder.

Additionally, weirdly, PETA gets a clue from an unlikely whistleblower, a psychic.

So here's what apparently.

This story is the best.

This is like a Mad Libs Libs sentence.

Like if I pitch this as a film, people will be like, it's okay, you lost me at the end of Act Two with the psychic.

Yeah.

Okay, so here's what apparently happened.

Haddocks' friend had gossiped to her psychic that her kooky friend Tanya had a little secret.

Tanya had texted her friend long after Tonka supposedly kicked the bucket that she was going grocery shopping for Tonka.

Oopsies.

So PETA uses this clue to subpoena Haddock's text messages and drags her back into court where, despite the evidence, she seems to have a really good defense.

So Haddock says that she bought a new capuchin monkey and named it Tonka.

That's her excuse.

Plausible.

Now, when asked about the cremation procedures, Haddocks bites back and asks the judge if PETA's forensics expert bothered to examine the burn pit where Haddock supposedly faked the cremation.

Turns out, no.

So that's a fail on their part.

Now, when grilled point blank, whether Tonka is alive or dead, Haddocks has an interesting response.

Here it is, as seen on the HBO documentary, Chimp Crazy.

I just went ahead and poked him with that PVC pie.

And whenever he didn't respond, his arm just kind of flopped.

And so I just went ahead and waited a few more minutes.

And then I opened the cage door and he was dead.

I can't do that.

Hold on just a second.

Council, we're going to take a 10-minute recess so you can compose yourself.

Okay, thank you.

And then she snaps out of it.

She is a married

woman primate.

This scene should be studied in acting classes.

It is

unbelievable.

This is the monologue I'm working on.

Unbelievable.

Can you imagine if that was your mother?

I mean, we're going to need a longer podcast.

Unbelievable.

I'm surprised she didn't just put that wig on Tonka and walk him right out of there.

Like, the wig, the lips.

Like, here's the thing.

This story would be crazy and exactly what I want to watch, even if this was a normal looking woman.

But the fact that Tanya looks like someone doing Tanya drag

is

incredible.

Truly.

She's a star.

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Well, the judge does not believe her, but she still doesn't have the evidence she needs to conclude that Haddocks has kidnapped and hidden a full-grown chimp.

So Haddix has won.

She's not done anything wrong.

Not anything anybody can prove, anyway.

But PETA shall not be assuaged.

Sensing a cover-up, they announce a reward of $10,000 for anyone with information on Tonka's whereabouts.

And Alan Cumming, who's deeply invested in Tonka's well-being, adds another $10,000 to sweeten the deal.

So, we mentioned the HBO documentary, Chimp Crazy, and it's not just a chronicle of what happened.

Sort of like with the true crime documentary, The Jinx, the crew of Chimp Crazy is part of the story.

It's led by Eric Goode, who introduced the world to Tiger King, to which I say, thank you for your service.

Well, save my COVID.

Yes.

But because Goode is so recognizable in the exotic animal world now, instead of showing up himself, he hires a surrogate to follow Haddocks around.

Now, this surrogate is named Dwayne Cunningham, a clown and exotic animal handler who goes by the moniker Dr.

Wasabi.

Dr.

Wasabi.

Dr.

Wasabi, if you had a clown name, what would it be?

Oh,

when I was younger, dabbled in clown and magic and called myself Giggles.

Giggles the clown.

And that's the scariest thing you've ever said.

What would your name be?

I don't know, something about farts.

Perfect.

Well, that name is the weirdest thing about Cunningham in this documentary.

He's extremely professional and courteous, and Tanya Haddocks immediately trusts him.

After all, he loves animals as much as she does.

So they form a bond.

Haddocks feels so connected to Cunningham that she actually tells him what really happened to Tonka.

Crazy.

So Tonka is alive.

He's in Haddocks' basement.

Now, don't worry, he does have an iPad down there to keep him company.

So if he wants to escape, all he needs to do is email for help.

They can type.

They can type.

What would you be doing on an iPad if you were a chimp locked in a crazy person's basement?

Oh, I mean, probably Uber Eats.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

You know, maybe some and only fans.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Start an internet career down there.

There we go.

So how did Tanya Haddox kidnap a 200-pound adult chimpanzee, Tonka, and keep him hidden from PETA for an entire year?

Well, brace yourself.

This plot has many twists and turns.

So, the night before PETA arrived to tank all of Connie Casey's chimps to a sanctuary, Haddocks and her husband, the one who pretended to cremate Tonka, waited till the documentary film crew left, sedated Tonka, and drove to a holiday inn a couple of miles away and put sleepy Tonka into the hotel room's bathroom.

Then they waited for PETA to do their thing at Casey's facility.

Then they drove to a compound belonging to another chimp-obsessed animal collector, this guy, Cy Vierstra, recently had a chimp named Ricky pass away from liver failure.

So Haddix, a weird chimp hoarding genius, figured that not only does Vierstra have the room for a chimp, but nobody would suspect that Tonka wasn't the recently deceased Ricky.

Unless they've seen all of his films.

So while Bierstra looked after Tonka, Haddocks had her husband build a house on a lake of the Ozarks, a reservoir in the Missouri, and made sure to add a chimp cage.

Once the house was ready, they went back to Bierstra to pick up Tonka and another chimp.

Any guesses to who?

Wait, an additional chimp?

Did Tonka take a lover?

I don't know.

So, Tonka, and they also went to pick up Ricky.

Remember those cremated remains?

Well, Peter was right that they were not Tonkas, but they were way off that they weren't real chimp ashes.

Warning, this part of the story is a bit grim.

Haddocks and Vierstra dug up Ricky, who was mostly decomposed by this point, 80%, according to Vierstra.

Haddocks and her husband drove to their new house with a rotting chimp corpse in their car, which was missing a head because Vierstra kept that as a keepsake.

Honestly, if you told me this was a story from RFK.

Now, what could be the problem without this chimp having a head?

Well, Haddocks later admits that if they were stopped by police, they'd probably assume they killed a human being, since without the skull, it'd be hard to prove it was a chimp.

Wow.

She finally got nervous about something.

Not the chimp in the Holiday Inn Express,

but this one.

Wow.

I mean, also, let's not forget the flaw that you already brought up, that there is a documentary crew that she's literally confessing everything to.

And she's doing it on film.

Man, you know how you drive on the highway sometimes and you look around at cars and you're like, what is going on in that car?

Like, where are they going?

Where are they coming from?

What's the dynamic?

Can you imagine?

And you're like, oh, that car has a headless, decaying chimp in the back seat.

If I was driving down the highway and looked over and just saw Tanya, I'd be like, well, that's the craziest thing I could possibly imagine in a car.

Yeah.

So for a while, the film crew doesn't seem to be a threat.

Dwayne Cunningham and Eric Goode don't know if they should turn haddocks in.

I mean, part of it is probably selfish, like they want a really good documentary, and part of it is ethical.

They're not sure whether to believe Haddocks when she says that Tonka is too sick to live with other chimps and that she's protecting him.

But what puts them over the edge is that Haddocks tells Cunningham that she's considering euthanizing Tonka.

She says it's because he's sick and suffering, but the documentary crew suspects that she's trying to get rid of evidence.

And once they decide it's the latter, they alert PETA.

Haddocks oddly doesn't suspect the film crew.

I mean, Cunningham is that charming.

But PETA acts fast.

Within days, marshals swarm Haddocks' lake house and whisk Tonka away.

Now, because the basement is too dark, they have to give Tonka a physical exam on the patio.

Fortunately, despite being fed things like McDonald's happy meals and being kept isolated in a dark cage, Tonka is just healthy enough to be accepted into the facility.

He's placed in a temporary quarantine to protect the other chimps and to build up his health.

Meanwhile, Haddocks doesn't just lose Tonka.

She also gets hit with a $225,000 punitive bill from PETA for legal fees.

Yeah, PETA's getting petty.

I love it.

But she is given an ultimatum.

She can either pay the bill or she can give up having any association with animals for the rest of her life.

Wow.

She won't be able to breed, trade, or adopt any kind of animal, not just the exotic kind.

Wow.

So this makes her, for lack of a better term, go ape shit.

And she basically tells PETA to F off.

So for now, Haddock's legal future is still up in the air with huge fines and prison time all on the table.

So let's do a little, where are they now?

A little while after Tanya Haddocks lost contact with Tonka, she went to visit a friend's chimp.

She said he was so sweet that she got into the enclosure with him and

nothing good happened.

Haddocks lost a piece of her ear and dislocated her shoulder.

So maybe we shouldn't have chimps as pets?

Wow.

I mean, it's just shocking that that hadn't happened sooner.

Right.

You know, exactly.

Yeah.

yeah peta has asked the feds to act against haddux who faces five years in prison for lying under oath they're even using the documentary chimp crazy as a reason to move the case along wow maybe she'll be put behind monkey bars

there we go

tonka now lives full-time on a three-acre island owned by save the chimps a sanctuary in florida according to the organization's website even though he was slow to interact with other chimps at first and preferred other people, he's since formed bonds with other chimps and gets involved in chimp group politics.

So they really are just like us.

Wow.

Wow.

This is Tonka.

A movie star turned politician, a regular Marvel Artist Worksmaker.

Yeah.

Oh, good for him.

He's acclimating.

According to Save the Chimps, Tonka's favorite things are painting, sunshine, juice, and fleece blankets.

Wow,

Tyler.

Is that a dating profile?

So here on the big flop, we try to be very positive people and end on a high.

So are there any silver linings that you can think of that came from this mad lib story?

Chloe Feynman's impression of Tanya.

If you have not seen it, please check it out.

Absolutely incredible.

Awareness of the issue.

Yeah, just like a new way for me to not trust middle-aged white women.

Yeah.

They are never up to anything good, it seems.

Yeah, and like,

you know, if you have children, maybe work on your connections with them.

Yeah, real quick.

Exactly.

And just donate to sanctuaries.

I have, I have donated and

personally sponsored the Ikea monkey for six years.

Yeah, you have.

At his sanctuary.

His name is Darwin.

He's thriving.

He's thriving.

Yeah, I was thinking, you know, the world is changing slowly but surely.

Now, eight years after PETA exposed Connie Casey's operation, Hallmark has just this year pulled its line of chimpanzee cards.

This year.

Wow.

This is a good thing.

I mean, was that chimp getting like was she getting residuals?

Look, AI is going to put all those chimps out of business.

That's true.

Regardless of us.

And us.

And us.

And us.

Now, also, while it is still illegal to use privately owned chimps as entertainers in 20 states, the last time a chimp was used in a movie was in 2018 in Zero, a Hindi language dramedy.

Wow.

Okay.

So it's been a while, six years.

So now that you both know about Tanya Haddocks and her chimps, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop?

I'm curious about, because the trial hasn't happened yet, right?

Right.

So the flop is still flipping.

So it's an open-ended flop a bit.

I'd say it's a big flop for Tanya.

Yeah, big flop for Tanya.

But also, I mean, truly, she's going to get acting work.

I mean, yeah, she's going to be like, this is my new chimp.

His name is Flop.

She's going to own it.

Laughing our faces.

I feel like someone should be going to her house on a monthly basis and just poking around because I do not trust that that woman doesn't have something in her basement.

Well, thank you so much to our guests, Grace Helbig and Mamrie Hart, for monkeying around here with us on the big flop.

And of course, thanks to all of you for listening.

If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review.

And if you want more stories about wild exotic animals and the humans who love them, check out Joe vs.

Carol from Wondery.

We'll be back next week with another flop.

He was once labeled the most hated man in America.

It's farmer bro, Martin Shkrelli.

Bye.

Bye.

Thanks for having us.

If you like the Big Flop, you can listen early and ad-free on Wondery Plus.

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The Big Flop is a production of Wondery and At Will Media, hosted by Misha Brown, produced by Sequoia Thomas, Harry Huggins, and Tina Turner.

Written by Anna Rubinova and Luke Burns.

Engineered by Zach Rapone with support from Andrew Holtzberger.

The video podcast is edited by Olivia Vessel.

Managing producer is Molly Getman.

Executive producers are Kate Walsh and Will Malnotte for At Will Media.

Legal support by Carolyn Levin of Miller, Korzynik, Summers, and Raymond.

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Managing producer is Sarah Mathis, and the senior managing producer is Callum Plus.

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Theme song is Sinking Ship by Kick.

Executive producers are Lizzie Bassett, Dave Easton, and Marshall Louie for Wondery.

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