Tonya Harding: On Thin Ice with Shannon Fiedler and Liza Treyger | 45

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On Super Bowl Sunday, 1994, Kathy Peterson heads over to her restaurant, the Dockside Saloon, just outside Portland.

The place is closed, but Kathy's there early to tidy up.

As she goes into the back, Kathy Kathy realizes again

that some no-good kids have thrown their trash into her dumpster.

There's gotta be at least 10 full trash bags in there.

Maybe Kathy should let it go.

But she just can't.

She rolls up her sleeves and starts investigating.

If she can figure out who the trash actually belongs to, she'll tell them what's what.

But what the heck is this?

A check made out to Tanya Harding?

That's the famous skater.

Harding's husband's address?

Notes about some skating arena in Cape Cod?

What is all this stuff?

Wait, the Nancy Kerrigan attack has been all over the news.

Is this somehow related?

Is this the proof that Harding was actually involved in the assault?

Kathy can't be digging around in the trash all day, but she saves the debris and heads to a Super Bowl party to watch the Cowboys destroy the bills.

Of course, she tells everyone there what she's found, and of course they've been following the crazy story too.

Olympic figure skaters don't normally get hits placed on them.

Word gets out and over the next few weeks, the news media swarms Kathy.

She gives over 60 interviews, mostly while serving reporters' lunch at her saloon.

The reporters can't believe how harebrained this scheme is and how stupid the assailants are.

This little trash dig is helping solve a big mystery.

And what a great PR windfall for the restaurant.

Harding's ex-husband, her bodyguard, and two men are charged with plotting the attack on Nancy Kerrigan.

Before the attack on Kerrigan, he reportedly bragged about dangerous exploits.

Did someone say we should kill Nancy Kerrigan?

Wait until they take her out.

Tanya herself says that she did not know a thing about the attack.

The only message I can say is just keep believing in me.

Why didn't you go to authorities immediately?

Everything just happened so fast.

It just, boom, everything.

Why?

Why?

From Wondery and at Will Media, this is the Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time.

I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar and all laced up at Don't Cross a Gay Mad.

And today, we're talking about the Tanya Harding Olympics conspiracy.

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On our show today, I'm so excited.

We have a comedian, an actress.

She's the co-host of That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.

It's Lisa Traeger.

Welcome to the show, Lisa.

Wow, thank you so much.

I'm really excited.

Also on the show today is a fantastic comedian and host of Just Like Other Girls.

It's Shannon Fiedler.

Welcome, Shannon.

Thanks for having me, Misha.

Excited to be here.

So I have a question.

Have either of you ever had a rival?

Of course.

I've had a lot of enemies.

I'm trying to think if it's rival level.

Also, it's like embarrassing because I think it's just one way and I don't think these people think about me.

So,

okay, well, how far would you go to ruin them?

Not far at all.

Yeah, not at all.

Same.

I would do literally nothing.

Well, this is a story about two women who embodied opposite sides of the tracks, or rather, ice rank, I guess.

And it's one of the most infamous Olympic stories of all time.

So let's go back to the early 90s when U.S.

figure skating is everything.

Everything.

Every little kid wants a shiny new pair of ice skates, yours truly included.

I had Christiamoguchi rollerblades and they were white and like the accents were a nice teal aquamarine and purple.

Misha, I don't know if you knew this before having me on the show, but I spent my whole youth as an elite figure skater.

Wow.

So this is in my wheelhouse or my ice rink, if you will.

What was your favorite like trick?

Oh my God, I was a sow cow girl.

That is, I was all about the choreography and the artistic, which is not surprising, but my favorite jump was the triple sow cow.

Yeah.

A lot of practice.

Kudos to you, Shannon.

Congratulations.

The U.S.

sweeps the top three spots at the 1991 World Championships with none other than Christie Yamaguchi in first place.

So Christie snags the gold at the 1992 Olympics as well.

I mean, she's America's sweetheart, the queen of figure skating, obviously the queen of rollerblades.

But just when Christie seems to be unstoppable, she announces she's retiring from the competition circuit, leaving a gaping Yamaguchi-shaped hole in America's heart.

So it's all well and good for Christy that she gets to figure skate off into the sunset, but who's going to be the new face of the sport?

Well, the two main contenders are Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding, who placed second and third at the 1991 World Championships behind Christie.

And due to an Olympics restructure, their next chance to become Olympic royalty is only two years away rather than four.

That's pretty lucky.

Pretty lucky.

Now, Nancy is absolutely beloved.

Classically beautiful, elegant, charming.

She's the clear heir to the throne, if you will.

Her skating style is almost ballerina-esque with strong technical proficiency.

She's already won the Olympic bronze the same year Christie took gold.

So she's already raking it in with endorsements from companies like Campbell Soup, Revlon, things like that.

So she's doing really well for herself.

Tanya, on the other hand, is not raking it in at all, but she desperately needs to.

So on the one hand, she's an incredible athlete.

She's fierce.

She can jump like no other skater.

And she's the first woman to attempt and succeed at the legendary triple axle, jumping up and spinning three and a half times in the air before touching back down, which I couldn't do that on my two feet.

That's incredible.

Pretty big feet.

Did you ever attempt a triple axle?

No, I never got that far.

That is a hard move.

I get chills when I think about her landing that jump.

So yeah.

So Tanya's life also, it hasn't been especially easy.

She doesn't come from money and she appears a bit disheveled compared to other ice skaters.

She's trash.

No, but there are reports that her mom was abusive, though her mother denies these claims.

And her romantic partner, Jeff Gallouli, is a complete a-hole.

I mean, with a name like Galluly, you don't have many options.

No.

But on the whole, people think that she's, quote, trashy because of her homemade outfits and brash attitude.

And Tanya suspects her scores aren't as high because of her appearance.

So let's take a look at Nancy and Tanya side by side.

And if you could talk about it.

I think she looks great and fun and I would wear that.

And Nancy Kerrigan gives off Republican vibes.

100%.

Nancy Kerrigan also looks like she could be the ad for like dove skin care in a magazine and Tanya Harding in this picture.

That dress looks like a movie theater carpet.

It's just tough.

You know, if it was today, I bet a young thriving stylist or hair or makeup would die at the chance to work with Tanya Harding, you know.

But the 90s was pretty stylist era.

It's just not as refined and elegant in comparison to Nancy, but I would root for her.

You gotta root for her.

That's just sadly what I would wear.

So that's tough to hear.

No, saying, I like a little bit of color.

Wait, I have a question.

I'm so sorry.

Okay.

If Nancy and Tanya were made into a Broadway musical, but using the catalog of an artist, kind of like a mamma Mia, who do you think the music should be?

Oh my gosh.

I mean, the 90s.

Celine Dion would be great.

Yes.

That would be so good.

Oh, it's got to be Britney Spears.

Hit me baby one more time.

In the right in the knee.

Shania Twain.

Oh, Shania would be good.

Man, I feel feel like a woman.

Yeah, okay.

That would be good.

A little bit of Celine and a little bit of Shania for the two characters.

I'm seeing it.

So, another point: Hollywood would love to frame these women as like best friend turned enemies, but most real accounts say they're more like professional acquaintances, you know, kind of exchanging pleasantries in the break room.

Well, they're from opposite sides of the country as well, right?

Yeah, so I don't think Hollywood wanted us to believe that, but not true.

Exactly.

So, it's late 1993, and the Winter Olympics are just around the corner.

And a gold medal isn't just a point of pride.

It could mean millions of dollars in endorsements.

And Tanya could really use that money, but she helplessly watches Nancy outshine her on the ice and in the media.

And Tanya's under a lot of pressure, not just from herself, but from her on-again, off-again husband, the juror, Jeff Galluli.

And the relationship is messy.

Galuli decides Tanya must be the one to get gold and she has to be the new face of figure skating.

And he's going to make sure that she wins by any means necessary.

If your partner was training for the Olympics, how would you help?

Stay out of the way.

Yes.

Cook her some egg white breakfast, high protein, and then peace out.

Some people dream of being in the Olympics, but like it is a dream to just be on the screen sharing.

Like I do love when they turn to like gymnastics moms and dads losing their minds.

I would hope to be that kind of a person to my Olympic spouse.

So before we get into this, just a disclaimer that a lot of behind the scenes information is conflicting testimony from a group of convicted criminals.

The most trustworthy of sources.

Take that with a grain of salt.

But also, thanks in advance to Matt Crossman, who wrote a very informative timeline for the bleacher report, which helps us tell the story today.

So let's get into it.

Galuli schemes up a plan to take Nancy Kerrigan out of the equation, permanently.

He wants to stop her from qualifying for the Olympics altogether, and he's willing to disable her to do it.

But he realizes he can't do it alone.

So he hires a friend from grade school to do the dirty work, and his name is Sean Eckart.

Now, Eckart is a character.

He's 26, out of shape, seemingly a delusional couch warrior.

Imagine like a real-life Dwight Schroot from the office or like Mac from It's Always Sunny.

He's like a wannabe badass who claims to have special training.

Do you know anybody who's an aspiring bodyguard?

No.

Right, because it's strange.

That's such a weird, what do you want to be when you grow up?

Yeah.

So Eckart is a college student and he drives a beat up 1976 Ford Mercury and says he runs a bodyguard business out of his parents' home in Oregon.

But if you took a peek at his supposed resume, which is chock full of spelling errors, by the way, you'd think that he was Jason Bourne.

Eckhart, he's a resume embellishing genius.

And to understand how far he's willing to take it, let's play a game.

It's quite simple.

Here are the rules.

I'm just going to ask some multiple choice questions about Eckhart's claims, and whoever gets the most correct wins will send you to the next Winter Olympics.

First question: In an interview with Diane Sawyer, Eckhart literally says his quote: training and education has been in the areas of counter-espionage and A, counterintelligence, B, counter-terrorism, C, counter-insurgency, or D, counterfeiting.

Counterterrorism.

Well, do I answer now?

Your reaction kind of made me feel like she was right, maybe.

Well, ding, ding, ding.

It was counterterrorism.

He claims he's been, quote, quoted as an expert in terrorism trends in a travel magazine.

I didn't know travel magazines reported on that.

Who knows if they actually do?

All right.

Second question.

Between 1984 and 1987, Eckart claims to have worked for the Blackstone Corporation as a contract operations specialist in Switzerland.

Why is this unlikely?

Is it A, because Eckart was a teenager at the time?

B, because Blackstone Corporation doesn't have an office in Switzerland.

C, because he was recovering from mono that year.

Or D, all of the above.

All of the above.

I was going to go with B, but, you know, all of the above always.

Well, that was a trick question because we always go for all of the above.

Actually, it was only A and B that were correct.

Although, we don't know his medical history, so maybe he was recovering from monovia.

Who's to know?

All right, third question.

Eckhart plays up his training at Executive Security International, a correspondent school for bodyguards.

But why shouldn't he?

Is it A, because he flunked out?

B, because he never enrolled.

C, because he could no longer afford to go, or D, because the school doesn't exist.

I'm going D.

I got to second that.

No,

it does exist, but he was kicked out in 1992 after being enrolled for three whole years.

The school's training manager says, quote, Eckhart just couldn't keep up with the training and we terminated him.

Whoa.

Well, what Eckert lacks in competence and experience, he makes up for with enthusiasm.

Always a winning combo.

Uh-huh.

He sees the gig to take out Tanya's rival as an opportunity to promote his bodyguard business.

Oh my God.

But every figure skater is going to want protection after the attack.

And after Tanya wins the Olympics and becomes famous, Eckhart will be seen on TV as her personal bodyguard, in essence, creating his own demand.

So, what a business plan.

Is he a marketing genius?

Are we just selling him short?

Galaxy brain over here.

Mm-hmm.

Well, since Eckhart isn't as tough as his resume makes him out to be, he gets in touch with a former employer, Derek Smith, who in turn hires his 22-year-old nephew, Shane Stant, to do the actual hitting, Be the hitman, if you will.

Stant is promised $6,500 and a bodyguard job once it's all over.

Now, initially, Stant is asked to slice Kerrigan's Achilles tendon.

That's shit you'd see on Oz.

I don't know if you guys used to watch that

prison show.

The prison show.

They did that.

But even for a man willing to hurt someone for money, it was too gruesome for him.

So Stant says, well, I'm willing to break a bone.

That's the respectable way to go about this, Stan.

What's the biggest crime that you'd commit to get a job?

Not even your dream job, just a job.

I steal for joy sometimes.

So like maybe like minor theft from an airport.

Nice.

Like a magazine.

I'm like the most obsessive rule follower of all time.

Like I would literally just like be like, oh, I'll be unemployed for the rest of my life before I so much as trespass.

You're like, I I might go three miles an hour over the speed limit to get there on time.

Exactly.

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On Boxing Boxing Day 2018, 20-year-old Joy Morgan was last seen at her church, Israel United in Christ, or IUIC.

I just went on my Snapchat and I just see her face plastered everywhere.

This is the missing sister, the true story of a woman betrayed by those she trusted most.

IUIC is my family and like the best family that I've ever had.

But IUIC isn't like most churches.

This is a devilish cult.

You know when you get that feeling where you just, I don't want to be here, I want to get out.

It's like that feeling of, I kind of want to go hang out.

I'm Charlie Brentcoast Cuff, and after years of investigating Joy's case, I need to know what really happened to Joy.

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Well, Smith, Stant, Eckart, and Galuli meet at Eckhart's parents' house to discuss the plan.

Because Eckart is a quote, trained badass,

he takes extra precautions.

In the event Galuli refuses to pay, or worse, turns on them, he secretly places a tape recorder under a paper towel.

Genius.

Eckart later says in an interview that Galluli wanted to, quote, take Nancy out, but somehow, cooler heads prevail in this meeting.

Now, Galluli knows enough about figure skating from Tanya to know that the right leg is Nancy's landing leg.

And hurting her leg at the championships would be enough to keep Nancy from skating.

She wouldn't be able to qualify for the Olympics, making room for Tanya to win it all.

The plan is that while the assault goes down, Galuli will take Tanya to La Lo and avoid suspicion.

Tanya soon reports a death threat and withdraws from a competition, making it seem like figure skaters, including Tanya, are being targeted.

Whose idea was that?

Well, in the movie I Tanya, Eckhart makes the phone call so that Galuli can hire him as Tanya's bodyguard, but in reality, who the caller is, whose idea it is, or whether or not it was a real threat still remains a mystery.

Got it.

Now, as the figure skating championship in Detroit approaches, Nancy is training in Cape Cod.

So, Stant's directive is to stake out the arena where Nancy is supposed to be, pop in, break her femur, and get the hell out.

Easy peasy.

Just another day in the office of Stan's Baluli's bodyguards.

So,

Stant, he makes it to Boston and checks into a hotel under his own name, already leaving a paper trail.

Good.

So now he needs some wheels.

Easy.

But he's forgotten his credit card back in Oregon.

Only once his girlfriend mails him one can he finally rent a car.

You're kidding.

No.

So by the time Stant gets on the road to Cape Cod, Nancy's two hours in the other direction heading to Boston to fly to Detroit.

Now, nobody thought that maybe Nancy might want to head to Detroit early to get to nationals, especially Stant, who spends days staking out the arena, not knowing that Nancy's already long gone.

That's the funniest thing.

Oh my God.

Finally, after sitting around in his rental for days, he calls the arena and asks if his fictional daughter can meet her hero Nancy.

And that's how he finds out that he's missed her.

I want to know how he was feeling in that moment.

Or too dumb to realize.

Yeah.

Or that he thought that was going to work.

Yeah.

Even if she was still there.

So Stant, with his tail between his legs, he heads back to Boston, drops off his car, and hops a bus to Detroit, where he rendezvous with his uncle, Derek Smith.

And this is the last chance these goons have to take her out.

The championship is only days away.

So the two find Nancy and work up a plan of attack, complete with secret signals, an escape route, and a getaway car.

When it's time, Stant follows a cameraman into the back, slinks behind Nancy through a curtain, walks straight up and takes a big swing with his retractable baton.

Now, Stant hits her right above the knee, feels nothing break, and knows immediately that he's failed.

I mean, come on, you had one job.

Not even a hard one.

Not even a hard one.

Have you ever failed miserably at something that was a very straightforward task?

Probably tons, dozens of it for years.

Yeah, I would say,

I would say constantly non-stop.

Well, Nancy is obviously terrified.

She's in pain and her knee and quad tendon are bruised and she cries out for help and she famously screams, why, why, over and over again.

So sad.

She's confused, panicked, and unsure if her career is over.

But one thing is clear: her bone is not broken.

But Stant can't go back and try again.

He needs to get the hell out of there.

So, as he darts towards his escape, he realizes he's stuck.

The door he was hoping to leave through has been chained up.

And basically, everyone in the arena is now chasing after him.

So, what do you think he does?

He goes to the bathroom.

He

gets on the ice.

He starts skating.

Well, that would be funny.

No, Stant uses his head.

For once.

No, not his brain.

His literal head.

His head.

Battering ram style.

Yeah.

He bashes through a plexiglass panel in the door and bursts through to the snowy sidewalk outside.

Oh my god.

See, he's a villain, so I don't want this to go well for him, but I am mesmerized at how many bad decisions one person can make in a week's time.

Yeah, so now he's tumbling onto the snowy sidewalk.

He just tosses his weapon under a random car, finds his uncle, and they drive off, leaving Nancy, the arena, and the entire world in shock.

Now, if you were in this little crew of conspirators, do you think that you're going to get away with it?

I'm sure he does.

As a sane person, no.

As a normal person,

if I think I own my own bodyguard shop, I think I've committed the world's best crime.

Well, despite all of the incompetence, Stant did accomplish something.

Nancy didn't skate in the qualifying event.

And while Galuli's team does the dirty deed, Tanya focuses on the U.S.

championships.

And apparently, unlike Stant, she works well under pressure.

She wins the gold and is definitely headed to the 1994 Olympics.

But Nancy could be a threat in the future because she's already on the mend and the authorities easily find her assailants why

because in addition to being the world's least qualified bodyguard eckart is also the world's dumbest criminal alive

first

he brags about his scheme to his parents

How would your parents react if you were like, hey, that I hit Nancy Kerrigan?

That'd be

a criminal conspiracy.

Mine would tattle.

Yeah, straight up tattle.

He then tells his friend, a 24-year-old pastor named Gene Saunders.

Not a pastor.

They love telling the truth.

Eckart even plays Saunders the clandestine recording he made of the logistics meeting.

Naturally, this is another thing that Eckart has screwed up because the recording is so bad and is impossible to understand.

I mean, dude, he placed it under a towel.

So at first, Saunders doesn't believe Eckart and thinks he's just embellishing as he normally does.

But after Nancy's pummeling makes international news, things change.

Saunders connects the dots and urges Eckart to go to the FBI, which he says no.

So Saunders goes to the FBI himself.

And when it's time for him to ID Eckert, Saunders tells the feds, that's easy.

Why?

Why would it be so easy to identify him?

Because he lives in his mom's basement and never leaves.

No, because he's on TV standing right next to Tanya Harding, just as he planned, you know, for the bodyguard business.

That guy, right there.

It's all over all of the news stations.

So that's a pretty good lead.

But the FBI, they need more proof, maybe a confession.

They get Saunders to wear a wire and meet up with Eckart in a restaurant.

Very much like a movie.

But just because Eckhart is dumb doesn't mean he isn't dangerous.

According to Saunders, when the two go to meet up, the feds tell him that Eckart has a gun in the car and they warn him, don't leave with Eckhart or we won't be able to protect you.

So when Eckhart enters the restaurant, he immediately asks Saunders to go for a ride.

It's almost hilarious.

But But Saunders, he avoids harm and gets Eckhart to talk a little bit.

And the FBI apprehends him just a few days later.

So he's now in custody.

Do you think he keeps his cool since he's, you know, so hardcore?

I'm sure he says, I'm not speaking till my lawyer gets here, JK.

I think he is

spilling the beans.

He's spilling the beans.

I think he's courting the cameras.

He's ready for his close-up.

He does, in fact, spill all of the beans.

And not only that, he implicates the entire gang of them, including Tanya.

Now, that day, Eckhart and Derek Smith are arrested for conspiracy to commit second-degree assault.

Now, immediately, journalists swarm Portland to get the scoop, and they're not disappointed.

There's so much drama to mine from all of this.

There's the evil mastermind, the fabulous bodyguard, the messy relationship between the two main suspects.

Is Tanya that innocent wife or is she the evil stepsister to Nancy's princess persona?

I mean, was she kept in the dark about the plan or was it her idea?

Do you have any memories of this quintessentially 90s scandal?

I'm a little too young to remember it from real life, but.

Well, Shannon, weird.

I think you're breaking up.

I think, well, thank you for being here so much.

I know.

I hated myself as I said it.

I I was like, should I just lie?

I could lie here.

I could pull a Galuli or whatever the other guy's name is and just make shit up.

I am so curious

how pissed Nancy Kerrigan is that everyone feels bad for Tanya Harding now.

Or like, I've been scrolling on Google images, looking at photos of them.

And there's one thing that's like, who's the real victim?

And it's like, it's still Nancy.

Like, I know she's pretty and rich, but like, she is the victim.

She was attacked.

Yeah.

She was attacked out of nowhere.

Yeah.

Just walking.

Like, I know Tanya was poor and had frizzy hair, but yeah.

And I remember her,

like, I remember the screaming.

I mean, it really was such big news.

It really was.

It's shocking.

Well, because the thing is, figure skating is seen as this sport that is so like prim and proper and beautiful and everybody has ballet hands and it's sort of like these little fairy women dancing about.

And then if you've ever spent more than five minutes in an ice rink, you know that the claws come out pretty fast.

But I think to the rest of the world, the fact that something like this could happen in an ice rink was so unbelievable.

Yeah.

Now, as the world is devouring every last morsel of this news, the legal walls close in on the co-conspirators.

Tanya separates from Galuli, who has turned himself in.

In addition to the Nancy attack, Tanya accuses him of abuse, which Galluli denies.

The FBI starts playing everyone against each other.

Now, this is not a squad of tight-lipped gangsters from a Scorsese movie.

This crew is falling all over themselves to rat each other out.

Eckart blames Galuli and Tanya.

Galuli implicates Tanya and the group.

Tanya defends herself by saying Galuli planned it all and is generally terrifying.

So it's messy.

Now, Eckhart's lawyer defends his client and says he's a victim caught up in something beyond his comprehension.

He's just not smart enough to have planned this crime.

That's the most embarrassing alibi I've ever heard.

Pleading stupidity.

Do you know what?

It's a common theme here on the show.

Wow.

Really?

Just not smart enough.

Well, not always in court, but like that's the people's defense for why things flop all the time.

We're not that smart.

I love that.

I'm going to use that next time time I really fuck up.

Yeah.

How hard is it to kill a planet?

Maybe all it takes is a little drilling, some mining, and a whole lot of carbon pumped into the atmosphere.

When you see what's left, it starts to look like a crime scene.

Are we really safe?

Is our water safe?

You destroyed our town.

And crimes like that, they don't just happen.

We call things accidents.

There is no accident.

This was 100%

preventable.

They're the result of choices by people.

Ruthless oil tycoons, corrupt politicians, even organized crime.

These are the stories we need to be telling about our changing planet.

Stories of scams, murders, and cover-ups that are about us and the things we're doing to either protect the Earth or or destroy it.

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It all works until January 30th, when a Portland restaurant owner named Kathy Peterson discovers some bags in her dumpster that she doesn't recognize.

and she spots the name Jeff Galluli written on some of the garbage, and she recognizes it immediately because of the media circus around Nancy's attack.

The garbage turns out to include notes written in Tanya's handwriting that implicate her in the planning, like the phone number and the name of the arena where Nancy's hit was supposed to take place.

So Kathy calls the authorities.

This trashy treasure trove is the FBI's biggest break to date.

Now, other than statements from the skeevious people on earth, they didn't really have hard evidence, but now they do.

So, back at the Kerrigan house, Nancy is doing surprisingly well.

The news about her silly attackers actually cheers her up because every time she reads about Eckards boasting or Stant's trouble with simple tasks like renting a damn car, she feels better.

These idiots aren't the scary monsters she imagined, And her legs already healed.

So it was just a hard hit above the knee.

Yeah.

There was really no damage.

It was like a bruising.

Just a bruise.

She screamed really loud.

She was really screaming.

So maybe she is a drama queen.

But she didn't skate.

So, I mean, it's, it's too bad that, you know, she didn't make the qualifier and get to go to the Olympics.

Right.

But she did, didn't she?

Yes, she did.

Because her teammates offer her a spot.

because i guess you can just do that regardless nancy and tanya will compete against each other in the 1994 winter olympics it's so crazy is this like the highest rated olympics of all time are people just like dying to watch this showdown

the highly anticipated 1994 winter olympics are underway in lilehammer norway Tanya and Nancy will compete against one another in the same event.

It's the biggest showdown since Rocky versus Drago.

What's the most intense matchup that you've been excited to watch?

Oh my God.

I mean, I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, so like 90s Bulls basketball was really huge too.

Like that was such a thrill.

Loved that era.

Brittany versus Christina in the pop princess wars.

Although, do you remember when, was it Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg were talking about fighting each other?

I try to forget.

That would have been funny.

To make things more dramatic, the assault investigation is still ongoing, and Tanya publicly maintains her innocence.

So as both ladies ready themselves for competition, Tanya's ex-husband, Galuli, pleads guilty to racketeering and is sentenced to two years in prison and fined $100,000.

Womp womp.

At the Olympics, there are a zillion news crews capturing the suspense.

Like literally, they're packed into the balcony like sardines watching these two women practice.

And Tanya and Nancy largely ignore each other.

Could you imagine being another skater in the Olympics?

Like, just like some random woman, like, who qualified from like Sweden, who's like, I'm just trying to have my best skate.

Meanwhile, there's like an FBI investigation.

They're just like, Jesus Christ, America, get your shit together.

Can you guess what the first biggest TV broadcast in U.S.

history is?

Okay, is it scripted or is it like an event?

An event.

It's an event.

It's an event that did bigger numbers than this.

That's not the Super Bowl.

This is kind of exciting.

Is it like when JFK was shot?

It's actually at the time.

It's not announced.

Oh, OJ Simpson or Rodney King?

Yeah,

yes, it was the O.J.

Simpsons murder trial.

Speaking of OJ, go check out last week's episode, everybody.

At the Olympics, Nancy trolls the Tanya camp by wearing the same outfit she wore when she was assaulted.

Take that.

That is petty on another level.

Honestly, suddenly, Nancy, I'm into Nancy right now.

I know.

Damn.

She also.

nails her routine.

It's the comeback story everyone is hoping for, and she's up for a medal for sure.

Can Tanya still out skate her?

Well, first, she has to make it to the rink.

On day two, when it's time for Tanya to come out, she's just not there.

She's gone.

Is she overcome with guilt on her way to a country with no extradition treaty?

No, it's much more pathetic.

Turns out, she broke a lace on one of her skates and has been backstage freaking out trying to fix it.

Because there's a time limit and she only has seconds to get to the ice or she forfeits.

End of story.

Can you imagine having a worse day?

But in a turn of luck for Miss Tanya, she makes it just in the nick of time.

Now, Tanya gets out there, tying her lace again as she slides into the middle of the rink and starts her routine.

She's mumbling something about breaking her ankle.

Also, just a funny detail, she skates to music from Jurassic Park.

So.

So let's watch her skate.

Oh my God, exciting.

The announcer can tell our listening audience what's going on.

She had problems with this in the technical program, reaches back with a right foot, single.

Devastating.

It's so difficult to compose yourself when you're late.

Your name has been introduced.

This is so unheard of

to approach the judges mid-program.

This is, because like, I think in other sports, people talk to the refs all the time, right?

Like, this is

beyond.

You don't do this.

And yeah, because what are the options?

They're going to be like, start over, girl.

Like, what is she thinking?

And I guess a loose skate's a big deal, right?

For sure.

Is it?

For sure.

If it's not tight enough.

So did she finish it?

I don't remember.

This is crazy.

Well, this is

the moment that goes viral.

I mean, at least as viral as pre-internet news can get.

And Tanya is, she's in tears.

She swings that foot up to the judges to show her skate is messed up.

Some might call it karma.

Well, not only that, even the announcer is just like, oh, poor girl.

And I'm like, are we already feeling for her?

Like, didn't she just hit Nancy?

I just don't, I don't get how we're even allowing this.

It's so strange.

Wouldn't she be kicked out of competition?

You're being investigated for attacking a teammate.

You're out of here, right?

You can't even smoke weed.

Innocent till proven guilty.

I get it.

Okay.

Okay.

I guess.

But so mercifully, they do grant her time to fix it.

And then she comes back and she nails her routine.

Is it enough to beat Nancy?

No.

Nope.

Her day one score was was too low and she finishes in eighth place.

So Nancy wins the gold, right?

Yeah.

No way it won't.

And they all lived happily ever after.

No.

Unfortunately, Nancy doesn't get her Hollywood redemption either, but she gets a silver medal at the freaking Olympics.

It's very close and even debatable whether she should have won gold, but she's beaten by none other than 16-year-old Ukrainian skater skater Oksana Bayul.

So Oksana wins by a fraction of a point.

Whoa.

I'm on the edge of my seat.

I know.

It's just a fraction of a point.

Just give Nancy the gold.

Come on.

But how does that ending sit with you?

We were an Oksana household, but also

at the end of the day, I mean, you're the skating expert on this panel.

Was Tanya a better skater than Nancy?

Okay, that's a really hard question.

Like, not talking comedy here.

That's a hard question because skating is graded on two scales: you have your technical scale and you have your artistic scale.

And you couldn't touch Tanya on the technical scale, she had a triple axle, nobody else did.

That's like the most points.

So, in that, like, in the less subjective realm, she kind of crushed it.

However, there's this artistry component, and it's hard to tell who was better.

I also, I don't know how she you said her day one, which would be her short program, maybe she fell, and then that could have been it, too.

So, two weeks later, Tanya's now back in the States and the FBI comes for her.

She pleads guilty to conspiracy and hindering prosecution.

The judge handling Tanya's case spares her jail time.

She gets probation and a hefty $160,000 fine.

Yikes.

Over the next several weeks, Derek Smith and Shane Stant plead guilty to conspiracy to commit second-degree assault and are sentenced to 18 months in prison.

Eckhart also gets 18 months for racketeering.

Galuli got two years.

How do we feel about the guy with the baton getting less time than the guy who paid him to do it?

Strange.

Very weird.

Maybe about the diminished capacity or something.

Yeah, he's just too tough.

You know, he's not going to harm anybody else.

He's too tough.

He would have got more time if he actually hit her where he was supposed to hit her.

Yeah.

So in June, Tanya is stripped of her championship titles and banned for life from the U.S.

Figure Skating Association, ending her career and losing her life's work forever.

Hope it was worth it.

So let's do a little, where are they now?

After the controversy, the world grew bored of Nancy Kerrigan, naturally.

She was recast as the spoiled princess in the public eye, but she kept skating and breaked in those endorsements.

Still, she wishes she was more remembered for her two Olympic medals than being struck by an infed criminal, as we all would.

Yeah, shut up.

Tanya tried many ways to move on.

In a stunt that totally tracks with the planners of this Kakamami assault, Galuli and Tanya released a sex tape through Penthouse.

Resourceful.

Resourceful.

It's called Wedding Night.

How romantic.

She formed a band called the Golden blades but she was booed off the stage at their only performance oh my god

tough so tanya beat paula jones on fox's celebrity boxing

i didn't know she went she found another sport yeah her win led to a brief career as a professional fighter yeah she i mean she is an athlete you know Yeah.

In 2017, she walked the red carpet at the premiere of the I Tanya movie based on her life.

I loved that movie.

Unbelievably good movie.

Yeah, loved it.

She was, of course, portrayed by Barbie herself, Margo Robbie.

I mean, that's a pretty good poll for a celebrity playing you.

Wouldn't you agree, Margo Robbie?

That's best case scenario.

Best case.

So here on the big flop, we try to be positive people and end on a high.

So are there any silver linings that you can think of that came about from this busted crime?

A lot of good Halloween Halloween costumes through the decades.

Got a lot of people interested in figure skating.

Always a silver lining for me.

And got Allison Janie her Oscar.

Yes.

I don't know if that was her first, but she earned the Oscar.

So.

Yes, she fucking did.

So we were thinking, we do have to remember that Tanya was in her early 20s when all of this went down, and she's had a lot of time to reinvent herself, and it seems to have worked.

You know, we love her redemption arc.

She did receive much more empathy in the last decade than the previous two.

Like Like so many of these media pylons, over time, we've had a chance to reflect on what made the story so compelling and our natural biases.

You know, with a little more perspective, most aren't as quick to demonize folks like Tanya as much.

I don't know if we're any nicer to people.

We're for sure not, but we can.

But it's a nice thought.

We also thought.

Private security is now a $400 billion industry, so there's hope for all the aspiring bodyguards out there.

so now that you both know about the tanya harding conspiracy would you consider this a baby flop a big flop or a mega flop

i'm gonna go with mega flop i'm gonna go opposite i think it's kind of a baby flop she got a movie about her with marco rabbi and she just got on probation yeah exactly

she didn't even have to go to jail banned from the sport you love forever um but okay i'll meet you in the middle but big flop the you know what but your brain went to her my big flop was like these men are just terrible at committing crimes like to me it's just like such a large scale but you're right i agree with you there yeah just fools

to get trapped in the building of where you committed the crime and use your head

So silly.

It's too much.

Well, thank you so much to our gold medal guests, Lisa Traeger and Shannon Fiedler, for joining us here on The Big Flop.

And thanks to all of you for listening.

If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review.

We'll be back next week with an episode for everyone out there who can't stop thinking about the Roman Empire.

It's the wild story of a wayward theater kid, Emperor Nero.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

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Written by Anna Rubinova.

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