Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA.
We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays.
We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs.
Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming.
Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details.
Must be 21 plus president select states, game and prom call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, an absolutely incredible day for TV watching in sports.
This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. What do I look forward to every NBA playoff season? Well, I'm always hoping the Celtics do well.
I'm always hoping we have great storylines, great games, great matchups, great game sevens. I just hope for good basketball.
But the NBA playoffs are even better with Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. Plus, they're getting fans closer to the game with a chance to win courtside tickets and more.
Enter now at MichelobUltra.com slash courtside. Micheloboucher, superior access, courtside 2024 to 25.
Sweepstakes, no purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21 or older.
Ends on July 1st, 2025. Multiple entry periods.
Visit micheloboucher.com slash superior access slash courtside for free entry. Entry deadlines and official rules.
Message and data rates may apply. Void where prohibited.
It's all next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.
I have a new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did a movie from the late 90s that's a very light, fluffy movie that you'll probably be surprised we did, but it was a request by Joanna Robinson, who came in to LA for a couple months and did a bunch of great stuff with us.
So I let her pick a rewatchables. And it's a good one.
And I was excited. She picked the one she picked.
I'm not going to tell you what it is. That's coming up.
Prestige TV is not covering The Last of Us, but we will be covering it on the House of Our podcast and on The Midnight Boys as well on The Ring of Earth. So you can check out both of those.
Celtic City, episode seven, which basically tackles everything after Bird with the 90s, which was really grim. And I was living in Boston for a lot of it, but there's no basketball tomorrow night.
So there's no better chance to catch up with Celtic City. It's on HBO 9 p.m.
or you can catch up on all the episodes so far on Max. Coming up on this podcast,

Roussel and I,

we recorded right after Rory McIlroy won the Masters,

and we thought it was going to be an NBA podcast,

but we ended up talking about golf for the first 30 minutes.

Then we went right into Game 82, Clips Warriors,

all the playoff matchups,

things we've noticed,

some award stuff we're trying to figure out.

And it's a really good podcast.

First, our friends from Pearl Jam. ups, things we've noticed, some award stuff we're trying to figure out.
And it's a really good podcast.

First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are recording and it's 4.30 Pacific time.
Just watched the playoff for all the Masters. We're going to talk a lot of basketball later, but that was one of the most emotional Masters of all time.
And I was trying to think, Rusillo, how many times have you seen a guy just pull the monkey off his back like that in your lifetime that you can remember? Because we've had different versions of it, right? Like we had LeBron in 2016, like bringing Cleveland the title. You have John Elway in Denver in 97.
There's just not a lot of those. I'm kind of choked up.
I don't know what to do. You sound a little off, but in a good way.
It was an emotional thing. I really thought not only did he blow it, it's one of those things that just hangs with you for the rest of your career and becomes one of the first things mentioned.
That's the point where we were hitting some sort of crossroads with his career that I don't know if you can come back from. And the weight of that is almost, it's worse than actually just winning the Masters and getting that off, you know, because you have to live with that the rest of your life, basically.
Well, there was the Steve Young one, remember when he won the Super Bowl and they actually were on the sideline. He was like, get the monkey off my back.
And they were pretending they were pulling a monkey off of his back because it was the post-Montana thing. But for golf, I'm not educated enough to run through all of this and tell you it brings back memories of Royal Troon or anything.
But I know that I was always frustrated with golf fans because they'd be like, who do you root against? Like, what are you talking about? You root for good golf. I'm like, come on.
There's going to be a couple of guys you hate. And Bryson, ironically, was kind of that guy.
He filled this villain void. But then once you start to understand how golfers feel about the sport, they don't really want anyone to have that moment.
They really don't. I think we enjoy it with the NBA and NFL.
You're like, all right, good. I'm glad this guy choked because he's just not my favorite.
It backs up all my arguments as we get to Harden's awesome game later today. But golfers just don't look at the sport that way.
So you're absolutely right. I mean, if he ends up after the shot on 17, that's going to become something of master's lore and then missing a putt, which looked like it really never had a chance on 18.
It's not like it was the easiest putt. So it's not like he missed like a two or three footer and he's this choke artist, but yeah.
Well, it was the second shot on 18 that starts it, right? All he has to do is basically do it in the playoff hole. Just get in, two putt, you win the Masters.
He's in the trap. Then the hit out of the trap, just not quite close enough.
He's got some work left. And that's, you know, that's golf.
You need a four, he gets a five. It seemed like Rose was hot in the betting market heading into the playoff.
I think Rory was still favored, which I was really surprised by because sometimes you watch those and you're like, how is this guy going to bounce back from this? But he bounced back. One of the great shots.
I was thinking watching him today, he's like one of those basketball players that just gets hot and cold during the same game. Steph's a little bit like this little bit like this, right? Like Steph today was like one for five in that Clipper game.
And then all of a sudden he gets hot and he's just making everything for about eight minutes. And that's a little what the rollercoaster rider Rory is like during these tournaments.
He looks amazing, amazing, amazing. Then all of a sudden it falls back.
Then he comes back the other way and it's just the swings of golf. But I think the one thing that's different this time around is people wanted it so badly for him.
You could feel it when we were on the course on Tuesday and Wednesday. He's clearly the most popular guy at the tournament now.
He's taking the tiger spot. But people, when you have that, when you have the emotion of all the people with you, they had that cutaway.
Do you see that cutaway when the people at 18 who were just waiting, the scoreboard changed and reflected that his score had gone back, that he got in the double and people were, you know, they're holding their hands in their heads, like something like really horrible had just happened. Like that's how badly everybody wanted it for him.
So to come through with the pressure you have on yourself, but also all of these people you don't want to let down. Like, I don't even know if there's a comparison to that.
In basketball, you only have 18,000 people in the arena. This is like, you know, tens and tens of thousands of people all clustered around.
But that's the difference with the sport. Like basketball doesn't really give you a chance to sit there and mope.
Like you kind of have to get back to it. I mean, most of the sports that we talk about all the time, there's very little time to sit there and kind of think about what you're going through.
And for him to double one and then you send me a text, you go, hey, we may have to lead with this if he falls apart. And it's almost his anticipation that he's going to fall apart because he's played so well the first three rounds.
And then I look it up. I'm like, oh, but then he's like four under the next 10 holes.
So I think it's kind of the sport. And even him going into the bunker, which you're right, is the bigger part of him missing the putt on 18, is that he actually kind of cracked a smile.
He almost laughed at himself like, you're going to be fucking kidding me. Yeah.
So that there was some emotion that he was showing, I i thought was a better sign and i also think it helps probably playing 18 again all over to start

the playoff knowing like okay my second shot like i can't do that again right yeah so i also think a

lot of people in attendance too based on you know what we're talking about just the patrons right

and and their mindset of just wanting great things to happen and not terrible things to happen

very positive group there's

there's also

there's also

some words

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also

there's also there's also there's also there's also there's also there's also something too which it's not i shouldn't say selfish but they want to see him complete the slam so now he's got to ever do it you get to say that you were there in 25 at augusta to see this this is one of those it's not tigers win but it's one of the more memorable ones because he completes this career odyssey because if you think about the start of his career, it was like, oh my God, like what can't this guy do? We're going to talk about like is he going to win 10 majors or something like that? I remember one of the debate shows at ESPN, like after he got married, it was like, well, he is married. It's like, so he's the only pro athlete who's married and this is why he's playing bad now.
of a sudden like I understand time constraints can change as the non-married

guy like I'm aware that your schedule's a little

tighter but it just

drove me crazy because he wasn't

playing as well and there had to be a reason it was like

the only thing that anybody could point to

but he's never really been somebody that

I mean his game itself

is so enjoyable I think he had a

shot yesterday where I was watching

he's like 209 out hits a 6 iron and he smokes it into the air too. He throws it like a dart and you're like, how did you get it that far at that angle? So he's also probably as much fun as everybody or anyone on the, on the tour on top of everybody, uh, rooting for somebody him for like, like him to complete this.
Yeah. There's a fearlessness to him with some of the shots he hits he had a couple today where he's in front of trees and you know branches all kinds of things you're like wait is he going for this well there's the tower shot there's there's the one on the left side on the drive where he gets a decent enough balance and then you're like he's gonna go through that or over it or what you know it's like the guy that never gives in.
Just go, let me save the hole. He's constantly thinking like, what's the best score can I get on? He plays the game the way no one should ever play it.
Yeah, we did a thing on my pod this week about the people that the gallery responded to the most. Because Tiger is basically done.
And there was two different tournaments when Tiger played. It was basically the Tiger tournament was happening and the gallery is just following him and then everybody else is playing.
Now Tiger's gone and Rory had become the guy,

but Bryson was kind of gaining on it. And you could feel like those two had separated themselves

from everybody else who was at the Masters, basically, with the fans, with the reactions,

with the interest, everything. So then the fact that they're teamed up head to head for this last

one, he double bogeys the first hole. And it just seemed like Bryson was going to run over him like a freight train.
The opposite happens. Then it seems like he has it.
Then all of a sudden he doesn't. Then Rose makes that crazy putt on 18, right as Rory's starting to maybe waver a tiny bit.
But it's, I can't, the five Masters I probably remember the most, and I don't remember golf the same way I remember basketball where I can tell you every single finals, and oh, in the Western Finals this happened. But the Masters is the one that I've cared about the most my whole life.
86 Nicholas, the Faldo Norman Masters, the Tiger in 2019. And then this one, I think we're at least four of the best.
I'm sure there's a bunch of others, but those are the four that the Faldo Norman Master, I don't remember anybody not talking about that for like four days after. That just felt like this life altering.
I've Just never seen an athlete fall apart like that.

Have you?

It's the all time example of an athlete just completely falling apart.

It might be the only time I watched golf and care during college.

Like that round.

Right.

Right.

I mean, sports are hard to find a way to fit into the, we didn't have cable, I think,

in our house for like two or three years too on top of everything else.

So it's like, all right, network TV.

We don't have a ton of options.

I just remember not being super dialed into 160 Red Sox games during college.

And I just remember that afternoon.

It's a hungover whatever.

It's kind of, is it muddy out or sunny out in Vermont?

And then you realize that really is one of those results you'll never forget where you were.

And Faldo hugging him at the end.

I don't ever remember anything like that either. Or Faldo felt worse about winning than probably anybody who's ever won a golf tournament.
But, you know, we were talking about it. We were in there.
You have team sports. You have a sport like the Clippers Warriors game that we're going to talk about, you know, a little bit later.
And guys can affect the games. Draymond has that terrible put where he just should have gone up with it.
He's trying to draw a foul and he screwed that play up. It's not the entire reason they lost.
That's the thing you would think to. Golf, you're just by yourself.
There's nobody else. There's no other reason you're going to win or lose.
It's all you. You can't blame anybody.
You're there with your thoughts. You're there with the momentum of it.
You're there with all of a sudden, I just don't feel great about this drive, but I have to hit it anyway. All these little moments that you're just battling.
We were saying it's the only sport where you have to be insanely competitive, but also completely calm. Is there any other sport like that? You have two emotions that are indirect.
I was talking to my wife about this yesterday because I was explaining her the whole Rory thing. And I was like, here's this sport where you just have these two things that don't make sense together.
I have to be like a driven competitive maniac, but I also have to be completely calm at the worst possible moments of whatever I'm competing in or the scariest or the hairiest, whatever you want to say. And that's why there's so few great golfers.
You can't juggle that, you know? No, it's a really great way of putting it because I remember when the Sloan paper came out about there's no such thing as clutch. And I thought, okay, you know, there's all sorts of great basketball players.
Like if we want to just shave it down to down one, score tied, take the shot, and then you look at the field goal makes versus field goal attempts, your favorite players have awful stats on those. There's all sorts of guys you can go through and be like, this guy's a killer.
And then you're like, he's two for 30 in these situations. And then if people hate one of those guys, they'll put that up.
And it's like, okay I mean, it feels a little like politics. You'd be like, what's your guy doing? You know, what's your guy shooting in that situation, which completely eliminates like the shot down three with 58 seconds left to go that ties it.
It's like, that's a really clutch shot that matters, but it gets lost in the filtering with a lot of the stuff. Right.
So when that paper came out, it, it wasn't like, I didn't do a, Oh nerds thing, you know, like some of the Sloan papers that had come out early on where it talked about like the waste of block shots because it wasn't always gaining the possession. But I just felt like, okay, if there's math that, that can't prove that this thing is true, can't we prove it in another way? And that doesn't mean't mean it's not true right doesn't it like do we believe that there are people that are really tight in big spots and the sport of golf like probably that shows up more than any other sport you know i don't know if it's somebody throwing an interception i don't know if it's maybe it's missing a free throw is the closest thing we have to a putt in in the other sports Maybe it's an error, but you know, again, that's not going to happen.
You're not going to have enough chances or the math would make any sense. So if we sit here and we agree that there are people that can choke that are just not comfortable, then we should be able to figure out a way.
Maybe there isn't Matt that backs it up, but there are people that are just a little bit more comfortable coming back from that. And golf presents like this reset where you open with a double for Rory and it's like, here we go.

And everybody sitting around watching just knows what would happen to them.

Like, it's going to fall apart.

It's like, well, again, this is why these guys are the best in the world.

There's nothing in the other sports.

Like, I don't watch a receiver get open going.

I can do that.

I don't watch somebody get a shot off in basketball thinking, oh, that, you know, I would like, we just, we've

accepted the gap, but with golf, because there are moments where even the worst golfer can have

like this great shot and everybody like kids around, or your friends are asking you like,

what would you do on 18 right now? Um, there's, there's that disconnect where I, I don't know

that we appreciate the mental reset hole to hole that these guys have to do to keep themselves in it and then ultimately win a major. It's the biggest disconnect between fans and the people covering whatever sport you're going to pick and the people who actually do it.
Did you see UFC last night? I didn't. So Lopez, who ends up losing And he just seemed tight in the first In the first couple rounds

Against Vogue. And then as it went along in the last couple rounds, he kind of became who he was.
And even stuff like that, you think, yeah, I can see it. I can see why you get tight.
What was the most nervous you've ever been professionally doing anything? not to compare us to athletes but it's just an interesting wow

interesting

wow What was the most nervous you've ever been professionally doing anything? Not to compare us to athletes, but it's just an interesting side track. Look, probably the first time I ever called a baseball game because it was the first time I was ever on the air.
The nervousness went away pretty quickly. I was definitely a little tuned up to host them.
Well, about when when you were actually like established professionally but there was still a moment where you had nerves um the only thing i can think of is is anchoring when i had to anchor because it wasn't something it wasn't something it was everybody told me i couldn't do it so i was like all right you, what were you anchoring? The combine. Oh, interesting.

Yeah. Cause then I actually had to like pay attention to all the cues and the directors and all this stuff.
I were pretty close to being called absolute losers for comparing anchoring the combine to winning the masters. But I'm just talking about when you feel something that you feel like you can do, but then your heart starts pounding and the pressure comes in.
Cause it could be anything, right? I remember the first time I hosted PTI. Yeah, that's a good one.
10 minutes before and you kind of sit down, you're getting in and they hook you in. And I was just like, I'm fucking terrified.
I'm like, literally, I'm terrified. And I wonder like in sports, you're not going to be like that because it's repetition and you've done so many things.
But I'm sure there's moments where you're like, I'm good. I've done this a million, kajillion times, but I'm still kind of terrified.
And golf has to be the number one for that. I think tennis is a good one where it's like, oh, I got to get this serve in.
I'm down 30, 40. I've got to get this first serve in.
And that's just a different... Once you start thinking about it, it's different.
Basketball, like I remember the scariest free throws. I've talked about this.
Scariest free throws I ever saw were the Ray Allen shot game when it looked like the game was over and then Miami hit the three and they fouled Kawhi and they were, San Antonio was up two and they came to our side where our set was. And the crowd was just so loud and things were shaking and Kawhi was like, what, 22? He had to make these two free throws basically to clinch the game.
And I was just watching going, this seems too hard. I don't know how he's going to make this.
And he missed the first one, he made the second. But when you're in the vicinity of something like that and you can actually feel the pressure and you're just a bystander, it's unreal.
I've been lucky enough to have been to a lot of different games and events where you've had that feeling and it's just, there's no way you can't feel it even if you're a player. Like even like Clippers Rockets when the Clippers collapsed in 2015, like you could feel that in the arena.
You could feel the energy shifting. So I'm sure you feel it in golf too, not to mention the nerves.
The benefit of all these other sports that we're talking about for the most part, I mean, granted, not so much baseball, but basketball, I think once you're out there and the physical part of the game takes over, you know, it's, it just, it's kind of a wake up. Like even if you're nervous, like it's those moments where you have time to think in football, like most people will tell you, they don't really feel like they're ready to go until they get absolutely blasted.
And then once they get blasted, it's like, okay, you know, let's, let's play some ball. Yeah.
Banging bodies probably helps with the nervous energy a little bit. With golf to sit there and to think, and you have the guy in front of their group screwing up.
So Everybody's of delayed on 18 so now you have even more time to think but rory's great off the t you know it's

it's that second shot that we would have thought about a lot differently and would have remembered

forever now we'll just forget it within a week right which is great which is which is good for

rory but yeah they're just there's probably you know you always wonder like there's there's like

it's not the g league guy but if you ask nba players like hey was there somebody that you grew up with or somebody played and be like you know this guy was nasty like he just gave it to us all the time and you're like oh what happened to him like oh coach fucked him transfer all these different things you just wonder how many great golfers there are that can't handle any of this stuff like if if no one's around and they're just playing another guy, they're just as good as them. But once they're on this kind of platform or, you know, at this level, I just imagine it's a massive separator that we don't even think about compared to the physical skills of these guys.
Well, my buddy, Nathan Hubbard, who co-hosts the Fairway Rolling podcast with House and his brother's on the tour, Mark, and he's talked about this on the podcast. I'm not talking out of school.
Mark got to like 63 one year, right? He was really close. And Nathan's dream as his brother is for him to crack it and make the masters and have his brother be at the masters.
That's like the dream. And he's come close.
And it's what you're talking about. He's got 95% of it and he can't just put together the four straight days in a row or the nine holes when he really needs it in a big tournament or whatever the one thing you need to get in the top 10 to get some exemption.
And it's always like one shot, one hole where it can't happen. And there's probably dozens of guys like him, right? They're almost there and it's just like...
I even look at the NBA. Some of the guys that we talk about that we like watching and you think like, is Kim Whitmore sitting on the Rockets bench going, if I just got playing time, I could potentially be an all-star? There's got to be like 50 guys in the league right there, right? Tari Eason's like, I'm a second team all-defense guy.
I just don't get enough minutes. So yeah, it's a razor-thid margin.
I think the one thing with Rory, and I just think in general, authenticity is making a big kind of comeback push in the mid-2020s. And we had this whole era with sports with the guys being told to fall down when they win a tennis tournament.
You could see cut to the coach waving for, what was it, Agassi? Go down, go down after he won. People trying to manipulate certain moments and watching Mori just collapse and just be that overcome by winning.
That to me was the most authentic thing we're probably going to see this year, I would guess. Yeah.
And you look, I give Rory a lot of credit for that because, you know, there's just everything's covered, right? And this has been for a long time. And so, you know, there's certain athletes, like I'll just just use lebron for example like i don't know how you could be famous this long and have everybody like you like we could get into some of the criticism of the personality like overall i mean come on it's not it's not that you know like nobody thinks he's a dick yeah 23 years right but he comes up as a it's what junior high age awareness and cover Sports Illustrated mid-teens and the whole thing.
And you can see with certain guys that they become famous. So now I'm not just on LeBron.
I'm talking generally here. It's kind of like the high school kid.
You see like an interview on some recruiting site. And he's like, I'm all about winning.
All I care about is winning. And it's like, you don't even care about it.
You probably don't. Maybe some of you might, but you've all watched what is the highest approval response or explanation of yourself.
So a lot of it feels disingenuous. You're pandering to whatever you think people want to hear you say.
You know what you're supposed to say. You know, you're younger.
You haven't really formed a ton of your own opinions on things. I mean, it's kind of impossible without more life experience to begin with.
So it feels like so much of what we've seen over the last few years is rehearsed. And I'm not sure that I entirely blame athletes, especially a younger generation kind of coming up this way, feeling like there's no escape from any of it.
Like I'm constantly, everything I do is consumed in some way. So I may play it safe or, you know, I guess it's kind of like the Russell Wilson thing where I know exactly once he does the postgame, he's going to thank the offensive line.
He's going out of his way to go over this mental checkbox to just make it seem like he is the most team first dude that you've ever come across your entire life but then you lose that connection because you already know what's coming you've heard the same shit for years and years and years so there's got to be some kind of peace especially for somebody like Rory later on or any of these other guys they get a little bit older and you just feel totally comfortable and it's great if your default is also like a likable personality on top of everything else well it's one of the reasons i think you and i have gravitated to edwards uh anthony edwards in

uh in basketball because he's just authentic all the time almost did you see sometimes to his

detriment did you see what happened the other night with him tell me the crowd was chanting

child support when he's at the free throw line and he started laughing oh my god what crowd was that

Thank you. tell me the crowd was chanting child support when he's at the free throw line and he started laughing oh my god what crowd was that uh was that two nights ago i think oh they uh yeah one of the latter oh my god like i'm not i'm not like suggesting i'm uh but but he knows that he knows he's gonna take shit for things, and he's pretty open about it, and he'll talk about it.
Yeah, that'd be a good one. Yeah, that's one.
Well, we'll see when he plays the Lakers. Yeah, but now that Rory has this off his back, I don't know who the next guy is.
I guess it's Lamar. I'm a homo's best round since the Masters last year.
Well, I was going to say Lamar or Josh Allen, maybe? James Harden? I'm trying to think of guys in different sports who monkey on the back guys. Lamar's not old enough yet.
Like, Rory, we had some real years here, and then we had U.S. Open last year, and we've had some suffering and time spent invested in him getting over the hump forever.
It almost has to be... Lamar's almost too young.
We don't have enough losses yet. Josh Allen's too young.
Harden would be an interesting one. Because I think there'd have to be...
Harden wins four straight routes. Yeah.
I don't think Allen's had bad playoff games. I think Lamar has had worse playoff games, but I think we all feel better about him as a quarterback now.

Harden has a long resume of this stuff.

And I'll admit, as I was watching it today,

I mean, I know we're going to get into this game,

but he was so good.

And I've even joked, I think,

there have probably been a couple seasons going into where I was like, you'd think he'd just be due to have kind of a baseline. Like, I need your floor to be higher than some of those just disastrous floor games from him.
That might be the pick because it would have to be, you know, there's some guys that I think of like, look, I just think there's different ways to talk about different players and their failures and their successes. And sometimes we just want to label everyone that's failed a failure and it's all for the exact same reasons and it's like okay well sometimes Josh Allen's going up against Patrick Mahomes you know so like are we going to shit on Josh Allen for I mean I guess you will if you want to do that on TV because I've seen it but it has to be some of your own undoing as well and Rory's had that right so I think Harden Harden's, like if we want to spend more time on it, I mean, and Bede's probably not at top of mind right now because he's been hurt, but he's probably in the, but it's just not as long.
Here's a good example. Harden's made the playoffs every year.
Ray Bork is a good example because anything that happened to him was not by his doing. He was fucking awesome on the Bruins.
I loved the Bruins back then.

And it really came down to they were always like a third line center too short or one defenseman short. They never spent quite enough money around him.
But he was awesome. And nobody ever blamed Ray Bork.
So then when he finally went to Colorado and he won, and I was living in Boston back then. I think you were too.
everyone went to bars to root for Colorado so that Ray Bork could finally get one because we love Ray Bork. We wanted him to get one.
He didn't have the kind of tragedy and the ups and downs of somebody like Rory. So I don't know.
I don't know who it is. Rory was clearly the most popular.
It could be Alcarez. Well, Alcarez has already won.
I don't know. I don't know who it is.

I was still in Vermont, and I remember

because he was traded, and he was

teammates with one of my friends,

and he told this awesome Ray Bork

story, which is pretty minor, so I'm not going to build

it up too much, but it's too late.

He was on the team. It's

Ray fucking Bork. One of the guys,

one of the younger guys was like, Ray, can I

get your cell, or do you get a number? And he was like, why why so you and your buddies can call me drunk in the middle of the night that was his answer but he knew he was like it was in a funny way he wasn't being a jerk about it that's great because you know they he knew based on the way the guy was asking him, it was like it was still this hockey god in the locker room

with him. Being like, hey man, maybe I'll get your number or something.
And then he just, he shot it down. Ray Bork was in one of the great authentic Boston sports moments ever when he gave the jersey to Espo.
When they were retiring Esposito's jersey, and Ray Bork was wearing number seven

because they had traded Esposito to the Rangers,

and there was a little bit of bad blood.

So then Bork came in, and he was the rookie,

and he was awesome.

And then at some point in the 80s,

they had Espo night,

and Bork came in and took his jersey off,

and he had the 77 underneath,

and he just gave Espo his jersey.

It's a fucking amazing.

Amazing sports moment.

You ever interview Esposito?

No, I've always heard he was kind of lit.

It was.

Letting it fly.

Yeah.

You had him on the radio show?

Yeah, back in the early days.

I mean, we were thrilled.

We're like, man, we get Esposito for eight minutes.

This is fucking week is made.

Just like a crazy Italian guy. But just the second he's on the air with you, it's just on.
Yeah. He was great.
Let's take a break and then we have a lot of basketball to hit because today- Nothing. A little Simmons Masters moment fresh from Augusta.
You got anything for us? Well, I'll tell you this. On Wednesday, I split up with the group I was with and I was with Nathan and I think Chang.
And we just ended up on the fifth pole watching them putt. And it was Rory, it was Lowry, it was Jon Rahm, and it was Fleetwood.
And in the practice round, you can kind of, like you're just fucking around. You can basically hit with whoever.
I think they let them decide a little bit. So the four of them were playing.
They were all gambling and they were clear they were buddies. And we were right there when they were all teeing off in the sixth hole and we felt like Lowry and Rory were betting.
So we were all excited. Like, oh, I wonder what they're betting.
And they're kind of keeping track and just they seem loose. And it was one of the reasons I picked Rory to win because I was like, Rory seems loose.
He's like betting with Lowry. This seems good.
Fast forward to when he wins today. Lowry was one of the guys waiting for him, almost like he was a family member.
I don't know if you saw that. Rory comes off the course and he's hugging different things.
He sees Lowry, huge long hug and high fives and then Fleetwood, same thing. And I was like, oh, those must be like, that's like his Ryder Cup crew, all his dudes.
his dudes. But anyway, it just, it stuck out because we had that moment on Wednesday.
We were like, wow, Roy seems loose. This is a good sign because coming off last summer, who knows? All right, we're going to take a break.
We'll talk a little Warriors clips and some playoffs and some All-NBA. This episode is brought to you by Verbo Private Vacation Rentals.

With Verbo, you can save over $200 on select homes

when you stay for a week or more.

Say you wanted to go catch a few baseball games in Boston.

Take some time off work, fly into Beantown.

Watch the Sox play after that.

You can do anything.

Go book a Verbo in Cape Cod for a week.

The world is your oyster or lobster roll

or clam chowder.

Really, if it has shells, gills,

and is indigenous to the Atlantic,

Thank you. book of Verbo in Cape Cod for a week.
The world is your oyster or lobster roll or clam chowder. Really, if it has shells, gills, and it's indigenous to the Atlantic, it's your edible metaphor of choice.
They're crustacean crazy down there. And guess what? Since you stayed longer than a week, you saved over $200.
You know what that means? More shellfish. I love shellfish.
Hope you're not allergic. Next vacation, stay longer and save.

Make it a Verbo.

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn.

During the season, every baseball team plays 162 games.

It's a true test of endurance.

It's not enough to have a hot month or two.

You need sustained dominance throughout.

Well, the same is true for your small business.

It's not enough to have a great Q2 or even a great year. You want year over year growth that starts with better hires that'll be there for the long haul.
To find those hires, use LinkedIn. LinkedIn has strong hiring data and insights that you won't find anywhere else to help pair you with the best candidates from unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common.
Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small businesses say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality talent. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond people who are actively applying in a given week.
171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. That's a big pool to miss out on if you're not hiring with LinkedIn.
Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com

slash Simmons. That's linkedin.com slash Simmons to post your job for free.
Terms and conditions

apply. This episode is brought to you by Nissan.
If you're planning on an adventurous 2025, you're

going to need a car that can keep up with you and conquer anything in your path. The Nissan Armada

Pro 4X is that car with a twin turbo V6 engine ready to propel your adventures up to 8,500 pounds of towing capacity to haul all your favorite toys and space for eight passengers. This unshakable fortress will chew up and spit out anything you throw at it.
Learn more at the all new 2025 Nissan Armada at nissanusa.com.

Towing capacity varies by configuration.

See Nissan Towing Guide and Owner's Manual

for additional information.

Always secure cargo.

All right, game of the day, game 82,

which I think was a lot more fun last year.

This year, we knew a lot of the matchups and the records,

but we did have this incredible Clippers Warriors game

that it's tough. Every time there's a great game, you want to do the game of the matchups and the records, but we did have this incredible Clippers Warriors game that it's,

it's tough.

Every time there's a great game,

you want to do the game of the year.

But I think that actually might've been the game of the year because there

were real stakes and both teams really wanted it.

And I think both teams wanted the rest.

I don't even think it was about the matchups as much as can we get five,

six days off here.

The Warriors definitely wanted it because they have an older team and the Clippers are playing this, you know, they have Kawhi Jenga. And the game was fascinating for a whole bunch of different reasons.
The Clippers win. And I'm going to start here because I felt that way before the game.
I think the Clippers are the second best team in the West. Okay.
Counter. Any counter? Well, the only thing that I would counter is just all the stuff that all of us would say about, okay, well, in the playoffs, are they a riskier bet than these other teams? But as far as who is playing the best basketball right now, they're the second best team in the West, so I'm not going to argue with you.
Last 15 going into today, number one

offense, number one defense. The Kawhi thing

is real. March, April, he's playing

36 minutes a game. He's

shooting it like crazy. Zoo

is one of the most underrated players in the NBA.

And on top of everything else,

you can just see the difference against some of these teams

that may want to go small. Because I still think

there's like three or four teams that would prefer

to go small. OKC can do whatever they want.
Houston actually wants to play big. Golden State definitely wants to play small.
The Lakers definitely want to play small. And so now that you have this first round match of four or five, so it's not like they're going to be, you know, I don't know.
I mean, some weird stuff would have to happen. And again, looking at the seating level thing, so it's not like they're just going to run through all these small teams.
But if to go small against the Clippers it's a it's going to be a big problem because Zoo is such a huge part of their offense they trust him more and he just beats the hell out of you what what's what's talk Zoo because I think it ties into a bigger thing with the Clippers um I think he's going to be on the 13-mile NBA for me and I'll make the case for it later um but I can't believe and I've been watching him really carefully the last month because it was jumping out at me during games started looking at the stats started talking to some people um asking like am I crazy or is Zubat's like incredibly important in this team and is he kind of better than people realize you watch realize. You watch the game today.
He was awesome in that game. I mean, I don't know how many times he defended the rim against somebody and either thwarted a drive or changed somebody's direction on a drive, but it was between 15 and 20.
Not to mention the alley-oop stuff, not to mention the rebounds. And he plays.
He plays big minutes every game. And I think he's played 79 games this year.
He's like 32, 33 minutes a game. And he doesn't get in foul trouble.
So the thing I was thinking with the NBA was, I've had Jaron Jackson in there all year. And I'm just watching Zubats going, this guy plays all the time.
He stays on the court. He's gotten better as the year goes along.
And to me, the guy that he really reminds me of is Gasol on the Grizzlies. That 2013, 14, 15 era Gasol.
He's not the passer Gasol was. But his big, how he's always in the right positions with his hands up.
Players on the other team are always afraid of him protecting the rim. He grabs, he's a better rebounder than Gasol was.
And if you watch what the Warriors

today, when they were, when they were posting up Zubats, the Warriors were reacting and sending

a double every time. And the Clippers, when they need baskets, sometimes they run stuff through

him. So to set up the other guys, I just think, I think he's the third best center in basketball

right now behind Towns and Jokic. Obviously Jokic is number one, but I think he's third.
I really do.

Well, if you want to run your offense through him, you can, you can trust him now to catch,

depending on how you want to set him up, because we saw, I mean, there's a few different things, obviously, that happened in the length of an overtime game, but early on, it's like, let's make sure we get some touches and let's see how Golden State wants to defend this. And so if you double him, he'll get it right out and he can swing it.
So you can trust him to do that. If you let him get deeper off of a drive, like Harden plays it brilliantly.
I mean, the best thing Harden's ever done his entire career, I think is off that high ball screen. And then you have almost basically the big shadowing you, but with Zoo, he doesn't even need to necessarily roll off the high screen.
He can be just in the dunker spot. And then that guy comes over to help on the Harden drive because Harden's just so good on that kind of stuff, and then

Harden finds these passing lanes. That wraparound

that he made going to his left side with his left hand

where it looked like the angle was completely

shut off is great. And if you run

through the numbers, Golden State was forcing

turnovers, really good on-ball defense.

They got up 36-25,

10-52 the second quarter. They bring Zubak in

and they close the half 35-22.

There's all sorts of numbers that just point

to his impact. And then if you Thank you.
they got up 36-25, 10-52 the second quarter, they bring Zubac in and they close the half 35-22. There's

all sorts of numbers that just point to his

impact. No, it's gotten to

the point where you almost feel like

they have to hold on when he's out. That's how

I felt in the fourth quarter. You had these Ben Simmons

minutes and you're like, they just got to make

sure they don't fall down eight before Zubac

comes in. That's how important he's become for

them. And all the Clipper fans, that's all they talk

about. They think he's the most underrated guy in the league.

Like they're like Scientologists.

I agree with him.

But there was this Ben Simmons stretch.

If you could come speak,

Bill,

at our Zubac thing.

Is there a Zubac festival?

We have a medal for you.

There was a Ben Simmons stretch where the Warriors were like,

you know what?

Fuck this.

We're going zone. Ben Simmons, knock yourself out at the foul line.
Try to make some plays. And it was brutal.
Like, legit brutal. And then he finally made one pass and got an assist, but I don't know if that's sustainable for them in the playoffs, any Ben Simmons minutes.
Now, they didn't have Batum today, and I think Batum is really important for them, and, they can, as crazy as it sounds against the right team, even go super small with them and maybe not play Ben Simmons at all. But I just think the way Kawhi's playing, you mentioned that, was he 24-7 since the All-Star break? And getting shots, getting to his spots.
Defensively, he's starting to look not 100% like San Antonio Kawhi, but he's's like you know it's it's reminiscent he could turn it on i don't know that it's ever going to be that again so i think you're being totally fair about that because you're just talking about 33 a level of intensity maybe they don't even want him to play that intensely but you're right on the simmons thing i'm glad you brought up the tomb not being available because i was thinking the exact same thing they They go zone. It was kind of working except they weren't corralling the basketball.

So they're giving up offensive rebounds, which is one of the problems of the zone anyway,

especially if you're small.

And Simmons just doesn't really, I don't, I mean, this isn't breaking news, but.

He's not playable.

When he has to think about what he's doing, it's over.

So he was good enough on tapping a couple balls out.

He did have that one assist, but he had two other passes on the right side where he tried to throw like a no look at one point and you're just going like what are you doing right now? Nobody's fouling him intentionally either because that's the other piece you can do in the playoffs. Just try to take him out.
Maybe teams wouldn't want to do that because they want him to stay on the court. To have seen it way because i felt the same way it's like the clippers have to survive these non-zubach minutes especially because simmons is in there and the more possessions they probably roll with simmons the more it's just guys screaming from the golden state bench like don't even worry about it like if he sets a screen two with the ball right he cuts through don't worry about it like if he's not going to catch it in the post and then turn around and work us in a mismatch or something.
We'll be fine. It's just they really struggle to rebound during that stretch.
It's like that second Pats Giants Super Bowl when Chad Ochocinco was the second receiver for the Pats. And I was at the game and you could see the entire Giants coverage was like, we don't have to worry about that side of the field.

We could just cover him with one guy.

The safety doesn't even have to shade over.

That's Ben Simmons on offense.

You don't have to shade over.

It's like, what's he going to do?

Can't shoot.

Doesn't want to shoot.

He's not going to drive to the basket because he doesn't want to get fouled.

So they're just trying to survive five minutes a game.

Back to Zubats.

So he's plus 9.2 net heading into the game today.

By far the best clipper. He's played 2,600 plus minutes.
He leads the league in offensive rebounds. For the year, he's 17 and 13.
Since the All-Star break, he's 20 and 13. I think he's had 15 double-doubles in a row.
He's shooting 65% since the All-Star break. And he stays on the court.
That's the thing. Like Jaron Jackson, I just feel like if I, like,

would you be shocked in the playing game if Jaron Jackson has five fouls

with 10 minutes to go in the fourth quarter of the playing game?

You wouldn't be because he can't stay on the court.

Zubac contests all the time with his hands up, but he stays on the court.

So I don't know.

I just think with him and Leonard and Harden,

that's not the best big three of the 16 playoff teams,

but it's a legitimate big three if Kawhi is going to play this way, I think.

Thank you. think with him and Leonard and Harden, that's not the best big three of the 16 playoff teams, but it's a legitimate big three if Kawhi's going to play this way, I think.
Look, I'm on your side on this one, so I know it'd be better if we were to disagree about the whole thing. I mean, clearly, Jaron Jackson has a much better offensive game than Zoo does, but he's asked to do two different things.
I mean, his skill set, I wouldn't even compare the two things. If I were with Memphis, I'd be like, hey, Jaron, you know when the other team gets the ball and they're bringing it up the court run away from the guy with the ball in his hands like stop and maybe grab getting these grab like one more rebound a quarter would be awesome a couple more rebounds would be nice like nine yeah but zoo if you look at the rim protection stuff like chats off the charts for zingas's numbers are incredible um But Zuz are really good there as well.
So maybe the downside of Zuz was maybe you can't play five out. Does it impact some of the driving lane stuff that you want to do if you want to have a Norm, Kawhi, Harden group out there? Because I still feel like that's my favorite default of having any kind of big that can stretch a defense a little bit.
So you have to worry about the shooting, but to have Harden not have a center, um, as much as it's going to open up some space, like he's, those two guys are just locked in right now. And Kawhi doesn't really need to drive.
It's a lot of pull-up stuff with him. And even Jimmy Butler, who's changed the story for the Warriors this season, like you saw when they got one-on-one, he was too big for Butler.
He's too big for him. And it's not like Butler's small or like, ah, you would question his strength or toughness, but- So glad you brought that up.
Kawhi would get him in some spots like 12 feet in and you're like, he's going to have a chance. They had to put Draymond back on him.
I was, I noted it because it was weird to see, I don't want to use the word bullied, but basketball bullied where he just was too strong for Butler. And you always assume Butler in your head, he's like six, nine, two 40.
And he's just, it gives you a chance. Well, yes, six, seven, maybe, but a chance you're thinking, okay, at least I'm matching some of this.
Oh, this is great. Jimmy Butler's on me.
He's not afraid of him. He's not going to get in an alpha battle with him.
He's just going to do his machine thing. The other piece was Zubats and Harden together.
Harden's had this before because he had it on the Rockets with Dwight during the last stages of Dwight's prime. And then Capella too.
But I mean, I'm talking big physical centers that are around the rim. And he really is.
They made the 2015 West Finals. That team was good.
I think what he's established with Zubats is pretty great. They're really attuned.
They'll run that high screen at the very top and then Zubats will roll down and he's almost like a left tackle. He's just like, he's kind of barreling into guys, knocking guys over.
And Harden always seems to know exactly of where he is. I think they're really good.
I was talking to a bunch of Clipper fans over the last couple days, and they were kind of deep down wondering if they were better off going to the 7th seed and winning the playing game and then playing Houston. But the rub on that is you don't get the six days of rest for Kawhi.
So this worked out perfectly. I will say I don't think it would have been a disaster for them if they fell to seven.
I think this is worse for the Warriors because I don't think they want to put miles on these dudes. And I think it's creaky to begin with.
We've seen some games. They had that third and four last week and that Sunday game where Houston just annihilated them athletically and just seemed like they were 10 years younger than them.
So now you're putting miles on them in the Tuesday game with Memphis. Now you're starting the playoffs.
You just don't, it's just, you're, you're adding miles to a team that doesn't need miles. Curry already looks, you know, I don't know what, how many injuries he's nursing at this point, but it's at least three.
They needed this bad for everything you just said. and to see what stuff looked like after that time off it's a bit like that Kyrie stuff that we used to talk about a couple years ago when Kyrie was going off because he wasn't playing that much it was like I can't yeah but it was like uh I can't believe Kyrie's doing this like look at he's barely even playing and you're like no the whole point is is this fresh like can you imagine yeah you only having to play like once a week and i'm not even turning into the kairi conversation but i think it's just something to remember when somebody's not available all the time it actually can be an advantage as opposed to losing your rhythm so in the games where steph came back in that memphis game i was watching like holy shit like he is flying around and i don't know that you know i'm necessarily'm necessarily like looking at it being like worried.
He had a really slow start. Then he has 18 to send it to overtime in the fourth quarter.
So it's like, okay, it's fine. He's relocating the way he should be.
And, you know, I look at some of the Butler stuff because the record's so absurd. They're a completely different team since that trade in every statistical category.
but maybe go into that game live against the Lakers where he decided to start playing like 14 minutes into the game. I'm like, you know, dude, these are, these are like, granted they won that game and stuff was brilliant, but you're like, you're going to need to not be as, as passive.
And he, and he wasn't, I don't think at the start of tonight at all. Like He got it going, I think, when they needed him.
But overall, Butler's still only taking 10 shots a game. He was taking 10 shots a game with Miami.
The metrics are always great for him because the free throw rate is so absurd. But they may, I don't know if it's a, hey, it's playoff Jimmy, so none of it really matters.
But there's probably still, even with this great turnaround, probably moments for him where it's like, you need to be looking for your stuff a little bit more. Because I thought there were drives.
Well, like in the second quarter, it felt like he was taking over the game. And then he didn't shoot again for a while.
Yeah, he'll go through these spells where I would just think that in the postseason, and his work over the last few years tells us that he's going to be that guy again. But I think it gets lost in this turnaround because he still is really pacing himself at times offensively.
But the fact that he's even there has made Steph's life better because when they were just falling apart, it's like, dude, you're asking Steph to run around for 20 seconds and get free and nobody cares. like nobody cares about any of these other guys the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the

the

the Because when they were just falling apart, it's like, dude, you're asking Steph to run around for 20 seconds and get free and nobody cares. Nobody cares about any of these other guys.
The free throws are huge. They stop the game.
They put pressure on the other team. He's so competitive.
The Clippers are a bad matchup for them. They've been a bad matchup for them for a couple years.
I've been to games where I was like, how are the Clippers winning this? They would just be able to turn it on. I don't know.
I wonder in a weird way if this Memphis play-in game is easy for the Warriors and they get the 2-7 with Houston and they can somehow from a health standpoint be okay. This probably worked out.
I know not getting the rest sucks, but playing a Houston team that has no playoff pedigree at all, that's like a really, really young playoff team going against Steph and Jimmy and Draymond, right? And you can take that one and then round two, potentially the Lakers or Minnesota. But if it's the Lakers, I think that Warriors match up really well with the Lakers.
They're just going to play small against the Lakers. It's small ball against small ball, and I think they're going to be really comfortable against them.
Yeah, I think you're right about that. I don't know if the Lakers, who want to play small, played in the Golden State's hands in that last regular season game a couple weeks ago.
Like intentional? Well, clearly the Warriors would rather go small, even though they're playing post, but he's kind of that five-out guy that we're talking about here a little bit. They don't want to play Jackson Hayes.
I don't know if that'll be a match-specific thing for the playoffs, but clearly their preference is Rui at center. And it's not that they're small, right? Because they're big at all their positions, other than Vincent or if Goodwin were to get any minutes.
Like, they're actually a really big team, but if they big team. They're bulky.
They're a bulky team.

You like their girth?

Yeah, they got a lot of girth.

I was trying to figure all this stuff out this morning.

I was going through the regular season series,

and then who missed how many games,

and that ends up...

It's the worst ever.

No, I did it again this year,

and I hate myself for it.

It's a nightmare.

Because even this game with the Clippers and Golden State,

it's the first time everybody was ready to go. I mean, Kawhi and some of the other matchups hasn't even played against any of these teams because he came back so much later.
And sometimes the schedule works out. It's like, all right, they've already played each other four times, but the fourth game was in December.
So then you go, okay, what does that even mean as you get ready for the playoffs here? But that Houston game, I'm glad you brought up because I was thinking, all right, is there a good part of this? I would think the Warriors would rather play the Lakers just because there's not a size thing that's looming like Zubach. Granted, he wasn't going to be in the matchup in the first round.
Well, in this case, it would be a Shingun. Like, what do we do? Do we keep Looney out? Because did you notice in that Kuiper game, the Warriors were playing really well with about four minutes left,

and Draymond wasn't out there.

And it was Looney because they needed him for Zubats,

and Draymond was on the bench, and the Warriors,

the ball was moving and looked good, and it got to the point where I was like,

I wonder if they could bring Draymond in.

And then obviously they went to commercial, came back, they brought him in.

But, you know, that's not, when he's not out there sometimes,

I'm not saying they're better without him, but there's lineups without him that I kind of like, especially when Podzemski and Butler are flying around. I think Moody's turned into a guy that I really feel like is a guy now.
Like defensively, he's really, really high level, don't you think? Absolutely. And he deserves a ton of credit for turning himself into this.
But, I mean, he had plays where he stripped Norm just one-on-one at the top of it as they were trying to get another offense. He had the block on the left side.
And it's just Moody's definitely, you're right. Like, he's turned himself into somebody that Kirk can probably trust depending on what the perimeter matchups are there.
But I think that Houston win in Golden State going back not that long ago, just a few days ago, it was definitely a week ago. Yeah, he's one of 10.
That's one of those Butler games where I'm like, does he need to take more than seven shots in 33 minutes? And sometimes the shot attempts get lost in the free throws, but they only took four free throws in that one. And you had 42 shot attempts between Pajemski, Heald, and Peyton where they shot it well, but that's probably not what you want.
And they sold out. I mean, Houston did a terrific job of not only a man being on him but making sure that wherever he was going, there was going to be a second defender there.
So, yeah, it's kind of your point. And they were super physical.
Is it better to be against them because they don't have the big that scares you? Or is it we're going to throw a million athletes with a ton of length at Steph? And so when we're done with the men, then it's going to be Tari. And then we're going to have Brooks beat them up for a little bit here.
That's where Butler, you're probably going, we need you to take 16 shots tonight in these games. Yeah.
I mean, that game they played Thursday, Friday. And again, older team.
And they just seemed like they had no legs for that Houston game. But that's also the fear if you're playing Houston because that team is always going to have energy.
They're a really tough team. One of the things I love is- They had a day off, though.
They had a day off in between there. Yeah, I know.
I'm saying the Thursday, Friday, those were two tough ones in a row because they're playing contenders. Those are big time games.

Eme will definitely he's proven he is not

he does not kowtow to the super duper stars

in the league. He likes to start ship

to them, talk to them, likes to get his guys

fired up to go against them.

They have a bunch of pit bulls to throw at Curry.

They have a low post guy that's going to

either force Draymond to have to guard

a center or

they could go that double big lineup

which I think is

Thank you. they have a low post guy that's going to either force Draymond to have to guard a center or they could go that double big lineup which I think is not going to be easy for the Warriors I don't love the matchup for them but man that Warriors, I mean that Rockets playoff inexperience.
You saw it today I kind of feel like they wanted that Nuggets game Did you watch the first half of that? Do you have that on? Yeah, you could look and say they waved the white flag, but it's because they were getting beat. They were down 20.
They were getting their ass kicked. They played everybody and they were playing hard.
They wanted the game. I think knowing a little bit about EMA, I think he was like, look, this is a playoff game for us.
Let's treat it like a playoff game. Let's see what we got.
And they sucked. So not awesome for them.
And conversely, that was the best game I've seen Denver play in a while.

And maybe this new coach thing,

if you read about all the dysfunction

that was going on behind the scenes, maybe

there's something to it. It's like

peeling off

a huge band-aid and just

being like, fuck it.

I hate that.

I don't think it'll happen this time around,

but we've lost Steph in the playoffs twice

because of the play-in setup.

What do you mean?

Oh, for LA.

Oh, I know.

No, he's 0-3 in play-in games.

Is that true?

Oh my God, you're right.

He lost to the Lakers,

and then because they lost to the Lakers, they had to play Memphis. And he had 37 and 39 in those games and they lost.
And then in 24, he lost to Sacramento last year. Well, the good news is I think Memphis just looks awful.
I mean, you're not catching a team at a better time than whatever is happening with this Grizzlies team right now. So I'm not too concerned about the Warriors.
They did something weird that I don't remember with the schedule. And I'm excited to talk about the matchups.
There's no Thursday game this year, which I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case the last couple years. Both of the playing games are Friday.
Maybe they did that before and I just forgot. So if for some reason the Warriors lost that Tuesday game, they'd have to play Friday and then immediately on Sunday, which would not be awesome for them.
Can we talk about all the matchups that came out of this quick? So we Warriors Rockets, which we hit. Do you share my same concerns with Houston? Like, yeah, it's in there but playoffs are a different animal do you have another level to go to or do you think there's something more there that i'm not seeing i think they're really good um but you know we're looking at a two seed that over the course of 82 games it's kind of like our verno ambush talking about memphis yeah was like, hey, they were the two seed, they were the two seed, hey, they were the two seed, before all this stuff.
I mean, it's like three years you can point to them like, hey, being the two seed. The two seed, some years, sounds way better years or move than the reality of what the records were of the teams that year.
Denver was a one seed that year when Memphis was a two seed, and I think Denver had 53 wins in 23 when they won the title and then if you go through the rest of the seeding, I mean that's why it's so crazy to kind of look back and you're like, hey Memphis was the two seed, well they had 51 wins. Sacramento was a three seed with 48 wins.
48 wins now in the West would put you out of the seven or eight seed. Yeah.
Conference was so much weaker and more injuries, all kinds of stupid stuff. So, look, I definitely will have hesitation about big boy playoff closing offensive minutes for the Houston Rockets.
I think it's completely fair and I think Yudoko will decide on the fly. I would be shocked if it's a steady closing five during clutch time for them where i i think he'll he'll go with some guys and he'll abandon others and he won't give a shit which is actually probably the best thing you could hope for with a coach where he's like this night i mean we just saw we did a conversation on it right about this exact topic and you know i looked some people were giving a shit, Rockets fans, like, oh, they would never do that.
That night, I think the next night, he benched Jalen Green with five minutes to go in the game and then brought him in with 11 seconds left because they were down. The game was already over and it was like, can you get us a bucket here? So, Jalen's probably the best option still with Van Vliet, but I don't know, man.
I've seen enough of them this year to know that it gets clogged despite how great their record was in the clutch. Do you have anything else? It's a team that looks better when they're up 10.
I think this series will, I think, set the standard for lobbying the press between games to get whatever agenda you want from the next game.

You know Kerr's going to be working hard

the whole Houston hold staff away from the ball.

They're too physical with him.

They're getting away with stuff.

They'll send clips.

They'll do that whole thing.

And then there'll be a backlash to that.

And I just think it's going to be a war of words.

But you also have Dylan Brooks in this series, pre-storied history with Golden State. You have a Golden State-Houston history that's pretty good.
So if this is what we end up with, and a weird matchup where you have size against a team that doesn't really want to play with size.

And then older,

older perimeter guys against this kind of new wave of perimeter guys who we haven't really seen in the,

in the spotlight like this.

So,

um,

it's a good one.

I would,

I would personally still take golden state if I had to,

do you want to guess the line?

Oh,

they don't have a line for that yet.

I do have the matchup for Memphis.

I do have the lines for the other two. Have you looked or no? I haven't.
Okay. for that yet.
I do have lines. Well, because we don't know the matchup.
For Memphis, Golden State. I do have lines for the other two.

Have you looked or no?

I haven't.

Okay.

Let's play a quick guess the lines.

Trademark Cousins South.

I'll say Golden.

Okay, go ahead.

Lakers, Minnesota.

LA has home court.

What do you think the line is on FanDuel right now?

For the series, Lakers minus 185. Wow, that was really good.
Minus 172. We'll talk about that in one second.
Denver Clippers, what do you have? Denver has home court. I'm going to say Clippers.
Because this has been going on for a while. This is like a month of this.
Okay, so this isn't new. I almost feel like this might be closer to Clippers minus 200.
Denver has home court. Oh, so they're just going with the home court part of this? I'm just reminding you.
Clippers minus 150 then. Nuggets minus 144.
Sounds like we have some wagers to make. I felt the same way.
I thought it would be like a pick-em, and maybe it will be by the time we get there. Clippers in six is an interesting bet.
And then in the East, which you probably already know. That actually shocks me.
I mean, I realize that it's Denver, and I know that it's Jokic, which I learned from one of the playoff previews on ESPN. But I, this Clippers thing is fucking real, man.
So, but you know, do we, are we, are we tricking ourselves? We're not. Okay, right.
If Kawhi gets hurt, we all understand what is potentially in play for a guy that's in street clothes to close out the last four years, I think, in the playoffs.

But are we tricking ourselves into believing that the elevated pace, understanding Harden's tendencies more, the deer in the headlight game two or game four from him, and then we see it and we go, how could you have ever picked this team? Because I'm going to pick him against Denver. I don't know how far I'm going to go with it, but I'm going to pick him against Denver.
I'm 100% picking him against Denver. And it feels like we're in a Law & Order SVU episode where it's like, I've watched this exact episode 13 times.
Why do I think it's not the dead lady's husband because he's a doctor and he seems like a great guy? No, no, it can't be him. They have to go back.
He's at the country club. Don't go back to the hospital.
This guy loved her. That's how I feel about if you like the Clippers.
It's like, this is the year Kawhi stays healthy and this is the year James Harden isn't going to shit on himself in a playoff series. So, we got this.
Is there anything to, because I want to ask you this question, Harden not having to be the one because of Kawhi, and it's like, okay, but that was supposed to be Embiid, so Harden wasn't supposed to be the one in the Sixers series, but then we could have this whole other Embiid playoff discussion that we don't have to do this year. Is there anything to the importance of him being reduced going in that makes you feel better? 100%.
Well, there's two things that make me feel better about him. One is that this is the best supporting cast for him that I can remember him having.
It's all the things you would want to put around him if we were just like, I'm going to come over to your house. Let's spend the next two hours picking types of players that you would want to put around James Harden.
Let's definitely do that. I'll come over tonight.
But you'd want a rebounding center who could finish around the basket and finish the alley-oops. You'd want an older star who could be like, I've got this.
That's Kawhi. You'd want some streaky shooters.
That's Norm Powell Norm Powell. That's, who's the other streaky shooter in that team? I'm Blanken.
Derek Jones Jr. I guess he is kind of streaky.
And then you'd want like length to protect him on defense. And then Chris Dunn.
So that he didn't have to play defense. And then the Chris Dunn piece.
I just really liked their roster. I think they did an awesome job.
I think we'd probably do a little bit better. The done Derek Jones things.
Well, I'm just saying realistically, if you're using the salary cap and you had to put together a team, it's going to probably look something like this. But yeah, the Kawhi thing, this is what all the Clipper fans I know.
They're like, it's a yeah, but. It just is.
Every year, he's pulled the rug out from under them. And every year, they believed and thought he was going to be, finally, this is, and then the rug gets pulled out.
So this is, this is like year six of this for them. So you're saying better than Westbrook and then PJ Tucker at center? Yeah, slightly.
I think so. And the death, the death screens from Zoo.
Like you run into one of his screens, you're going to get a step. The other thing with them is I just don't...
This Denver bench... I just...
I'll say this. I refuse to believe Westbrook won't be heard from in the wrong way in a Clippers Nuggets series.
He's just looming in the wrong way because there's going to be a game. There's going to be a Jamal Murray has to come out because his knee's not feeling great.
Somebody's in foul trouble. Or Westbrook's just going to be involved.
I've seen enough with him at crunch time. I just don't think he's somebody that can be out there in the final four minutes of a big game.
I don't know if he will. I think that Sacramento game earlier this past week.
No, I think that that was a sign. I think that was a sign.
They went with Pickett to close. When they drove with Pickett, yeah.
Right. So with Pickett's like never been in any games like that.
That's the thing. Jesus, that makes me more nervous.
I don't know which one I would want less. Just full statement on this.
Yeah. Westbrook's actually taking, I think, too much shit on this.
Oh, yes. Yeah.
Rosilla backs Westbrook. Now, if you're telling me he had to not make any mistakes all season, okay, fine.
And the fact that I think game of the year is still the overtime 60-point triple-double from minnesota because you had ant and yokich dueling each other but you're right the stakes are not the same as game 82 but that's my favorite game of the season and you have the westbrook layup or not killing clock or then the foul at the end but because everybody was watching that game because it's one of the best games the entire year then it started turning like look like, look, if you're expecting a mistake-free experience from him,

then just pick a different guy.

Look, even Steph, who I love,

he had two bad turnovers

late in this game.

He got caught in the corner.

He had another thing

he was trying to do in the baseline,

but the 18 points kind of makes up

for that a little bit.

But with all of this,

because of his history,

where it felt like every place he's gone,

post-OKC,

couldn't wait for him to get out of the although

I'd say into the half and half in the fridge that you have to sniff and you're like oh I got to throw this out although I think Wizards fans enjoyed it I think Wizards fans enjoyed when he was there so I would add that one to like the positive part of this and sure should Malone have let him gone to LA and get the vet treatment that the other guys did I don't That's, I don't think that's why they fell apart, but he's being thrown into the storyline of this a few times. Oh, well, Westbrook also did this and there was some complaints over the minutes.
I've been, maybe because my standards or expectations for him are so low, he's done the best job he's ever done in his career post-OKC accepting his role. We agree.
I'm just saying. You can't believe I'm saying it? No, if he's the sixth most important person on your team, there might be some issues at this point in his career.
We should have mentioned him earlier at the top when we were talking about people taking the mantle for Rory now that Rory's one who would be the best people. Westbrook kind of rising up as a super sub in the playoffs, helping drag the Nuggets.
Yeah, it's not the same, though. It's not the same.
Like, if Chris Paul gets a ring next year, by the way, shout out Chris Paul, 82 games. 82 games.
Unbelievable. If he gets a ring now, it doesn't mean like, hey, I was right.
So... I also don't know that Rory had the,

as many stops,

as many tumultuous stops as Westbrook did.

So,

I don't know if that one works.

Westbrook,

10 years from now,

it's going to be great for him when,

it's a little like what's happened to Carmelo and some others where we just forget all the bad stuff.

Like,

Russell Westbrook,

he's a problem.

MVP,

triple double. Are you anticipating kids don't even know Clips? I think it could be there.
If you put together those, they're going to be like wondering how many rings did he have? 25 rebounds in a game? I'm convinced the Clippers will beat the Nuggets and also fully expect something heartbreaking to happen for them. It's one of those I'm going to bet the Clippers and probably regret it by game three.
We're going to take a break, and then we're going to talk a couple of the other playoff series here. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.
Spring is here. My favorite time of the year.
That means the NBA playoffs are here too. What am I the most excited about? I'm excited to see if the Celtics can defend their title.
I'm excited to see if Steph Curry and Jokic can keep going and going and going round after round. I'm excited for the potential of an LA versus LA playoff series.
It's never happened. Clippers, Lakers.
Never in my lifetime. Is OKC for real? Is Cleveland for real? Is SGA going to prove that he is the best scoring guard in the postseason basically since Michael Jordan? Since Kobe Bryant? Is he on that level? We're all going to find out.
There's plenty to look forward to on and off the court like Michelobeltre court side. That's another thing.
It's getting fans closer to the game with unique prizes plus they're giving you a chance to win tickets to the NBA Finals. You You heard me.
The NBA finals, which I hope are in Boston. Just head to michelowvulture.com slash NBA finals.
Michelow Vulture courtside NBA finals sweepstakes. No purchase necessary.
Open to US residents, excluding Maryland residents, 21 and up begins 9 a.m. ET on February 16th, 2025.
Ends on May May 5, 2025. See official rules at makelobaltra.com slash rules for price and details, message and data rate may apply.
Void where prohibited. This episode is brought to you by Ultra Running.
Every pair of Ultra shoes has a roomy toe box and zero to low drop, which lets your toes spread and keeps your foot in a more natural position on the name of comfort and performance with a variety of styles. There's a shoe for everyone.
It's comfort. You have to feel to believe.
Try ultra for yourself with a free 30 day trial and free shipping at ultra running.com. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.
Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan delivered.
A cabana, that's a no. A banana, that's a yes.
A nice tan, sorry, no. But a box van, happily yes.
A day of sunshine, nope. A box of fine wines, yeah.
Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats.
Order now. Alcohol in select markets, product availability may vary by region.
See app for details. All right, so we got Minnesota Lakers.
This feels like a win for the Lakers, and I'm not sure who I would have wanted to play the least if I were them, because it basically came down to the two, the Clippers, Golden State, or Minnesota. They were going to play one of those teams, being in the three spot.
And Minnesota, I think, feels like the right outcome for them, because I don't know how Gobert exists in this series. So let's start there.
How does Gobert exist in this series? Oh, man. I mean, Luca was funny when he was tearing up.
Did you hear about this? They asked him which moment got him in the tribute video. And he was like, when I hit that step back on Gobert.
Gobert played it great. Dudes hate Gobert.
Kevin Porter Jr., not afraid to get into it with everybody. Just actually important for Milwaukee lately.
Been playing some good basketball. Getting into it with everybody.
What happens if he ends up on the Pistons next year? We might have to have security guards on hand for every game. Beef Stew is just like, look, first practice, new guys, we beat the shit out of you.
But it's just sort of like, I don't know if you saw Colors, older movie. We're just going to have to initiate you.
So, you know, ice up. Tim Porter is like, don't look at me.
I think you're right about that because it's a bit like the Emei thing that we were talking about there with Finch. Like, will he? Because there were times of the year it felt like he was sick of Randall.
Randall's probably played the best basketball. They needed him huge in that Memphis game.
He was fantastic when they just ran away from the Grizzlies. Gobert is, especially in that matchup, he's closing.
But I do wonder, with the stuff that that we're talking about how the lakers prefer to be real perimeter based if it'd be a situation where

they're going to be you know bringing bringing rudy out because like the best part about rudy

is the guy screens all night he plays his ass off he hustles like crazy but nobody wants to pass to

him and then if he gets caught in a switch hunting season then yeah it could be i i think like like

houston bill i think minnesota he needs like a shangu and Adams combo to make sense in a series. This, they're just going to play Luka and LeBron and Rui as much as they possibly can with Reeves and pick a guard.
And they're just going to spread them out. JJ, as we've discussed many times, this coaching staff's done a really good job at figuring out what the matchup is and then how to exploit.
They're going to exploit him and they're going to play him off the court. But that's going to lead to Minnesota probably ending up with Nas Reed and Randall and McDaniels and Edwards and DiFincenzo if they want size or Conley if they don't care about it as the five they're going against.
And that's going to be hard for the Lakers defensively, I think. They're going to attack Reeves.
They're going to probably try to get Edwards in as many switches as they possibly can against Reeves. And they're going to have the same shooting stuff.
And I actually think this will be a higher scoring series than I think people realize. Because people think of Minnesota as this awesome defensive team.
If, you know, if you take Gobert out of it, it changes a little bit. But I think Minnesota has a real chance in the series.
I think you're kind of shortchanging the perimeter guys, though, from what we've seen in the playoffs last year. The Minnesota perimeter guys.
Defensively, Jaden's really good on the ball against somebody smaller. The problem is, is him on the ball against Luka? I think we need birth against him.
Right, exactly. So with Jaden's defensive resume, which I think all of us really like, that's probably not going to hold up in your right.
We saw some of that stuff last year. Well, they could do the whole thing where they're like, let's take out Reeves.
Let's try to take out Reeves as much as we possibly can because Luka and LeBron are going to get all their stuff anyway. What do you mean? Offensively? I'm just saying just make sure Reeves doesn't get going when they have those spots where they take Luka and it's LeBron and Reeves together.
When it's the two of them, be like, look, we got to take out Reeves. They're never going to stop Luka.
The thing that worries me more from Minnesota is Randall, who, as you mentioned, has been really good the last, I don't know, four or five, six weeks. But part of it is because he's so physical and he's, especially if you guard him with anybody smaller, he really has been bully balling people lately.
But you're not bully balling any of those dudes on the Lakers.

Those guys have more size than he does,

you know?

So then it comes down to,

um,

if you're looking at scoring and the end of the game stuff,

it's going to be a lot of Edwards.

And we've seen mixed results with that.

When Edwards is like in the high twenties,

you know,

if he has a 31 field goal game,

I never really liked Minnesota as much. I like when it's a little more democratic with the ball usage.
The other thing too is three of their games were October 22nd, December 2nd, December 13th. No, I looked this up.
We didn't even see both full teams that we have now against each other. So we have no idea to expect no but i i think attacking luca is going to happen you know but they're probably just going to double ant and then go all right in the mcdaniels conley minutes go ahead and shoot and if we get burned by that fine maybe it changes with divincenzo um and then i think there's a lot of there's a lot of room for randall here because you're going to to stop Ant.
You're going to keep two with the ball on him on all this stuff. You're going to have to help out Luka.
It depends, like, LeBron energy level. It's fascinating because you went to that game when he came back against Chicago, and it would make sense.
He'd had times off, but he moved so well in that game. And then you can turn on a Lakers game two nights nights later and you're like uh what's going on and then yeah against dallas we saw him last week yeah didn't you go a couple games ago i did how did he look at that game it was fine but it there's like clearly he knows how to pace himself probably better than anybody in the entire league like this is like year four or five.
We talked about him like, yeah, he kind of makes the spots. It's like, all right, yep, he hit 30, 12, and 11 again.
So he's doing fine. And I'd imagine that his intensity on some of the defensive stuff where I don't know that he can get away with the kind of switching where it's like, hey, I'm always staying here so I don't have to move on a switch or I'm going to pre-switch something to get out of it ahead of time so that I'm not in this thing over and over again.
I think in the regular season, you can get away with some of that stuff. I don't know that that'll happen in the playoffs.
And I imagine his intensity and the time off and a little bit, it's just an easier schedule than what you have in the regular season, even with the raised intensity. Yeah, we always seem to forget that.
It's like, hey, these built-in days off, you're staying in the same place for a little while. Yeah, you get like three days off between game one and game two after you've already gotten a week off.
It's perfect for him. So I think it's expected that he's going to be more intense with all this kind of stuff.
But it may come down to like the Rui part of it where Gobert has to respect him and his shooting from three. So if Rui's in the the screen or something like that it's like okay well i can't i can't ignore this guy again that might be

the difference in all this stuff because we know your first team is really on your first team

i can't believe how much i ended up liking this guy team well i would say because i was starting

at about a zero with him yeah i'm at about an. Everything we're always talking about is based on like, well, where were you before? Like, you really like him.
No, he was an 11 out of 100. And now he's like 50.
So yeah, that doesn't mean I'm in love with a guy. I like his competitiveness.
And I do think when he's good, if he's good in a game, they become really hard to beat. if he has it going it's like oh shit he reminded me a lot of

Cap when he's good, if he's good in a game, they become really hard to beat. If he has it going, it's like, oh shit.
He reminded me a lot of Cat. You sit there and say, well, Cat was a good matchup for Jokic, and you go, alright, well, is it 30 points? It's really the difference in these playoff games, because Jokic is going to get his 30.
Was it an easy 30? Was it a hard 30? And I think Cat at least provided some kind of resistance to him, and I thought that regular season game where the Lakers put it on him, they're really good on how they didn't want to space the floor defensively. And a lot of that started with Rui being tasked with, can you just at least challenge him on catches? Can you make him have to work a little bit more? And I thought he had a really good game there.
Well, we have a lot of time to talk about that series. In the East, we ended up with Pistons-Knicks and ended up with Bucks Pacers.
And the Pacers are minus 230 favorites over the Bucks, which I think is factoring in people don't seem to think we're going to see Dame again. But the way Giannis is playing the last couple weeks and there's a weird energy to him now that I kind of like.
Did you see all the stuff he did in the Pistons game? I watched the whole game. I loved it.
There is, and there's been signs of this before. He's done this in the past a couple times because I think the perception is, oh, Giannis, he's such a sweetheart of a guy.
It's actually kind of a little bit nastier than I think people realize. But in that Pistons game, he was really like fucking with them.
And it got me excited for the Indiana series because Indiana has a better team. They've been playing better for three months.
They have home court. They're going to push the pace.
I think they're going to make it really hard for the Bucs guards just to even bring the ball up and start the offense. But yeah, Giannis is on a tear.
And we'll see what happens. Could Giannis beat the Pacers basically by himself would be the scenario? I wouldn't bet against it, would you? No, I wouldn't because I feel like we're going to look back at this Giannis stretch and go, he only won one MVP out of this whole thing.
I mean, granted, everybody's going to remember what Jokicokic is doing here but this is almost like a Joe Frazier Muhammad Ali thing in a way because I look at the numbers and it's not like when you watch it it deceives you it's it's just so stupid how good he is and if you are not ready for it I know this isn't new but watching that Detroit game in particular, because I want to see how playing out. Cade was coming off the great Knicks finish.
So I want to see kind of how they're going to defend him. And then we were kind of looking at like playoff seating and wondering what you could have as a potential matchup with all this stuff.
But he's going crazy the whole time, which is my favorite thing about him is that he is that competitive. So when he blocks Beasley's shot, which was a huge shot in the game, and Beasley, who feels himself the entire two fucking hours of a basketball game.
So they're already gotten into it. And they play together.
Right, and Kevin Porter Jr. dunks on Dern, which was filthy, lets him have it a little bit.
Dern comes down, screens the shit out of him. Porter doesn't like it.
Porter runs right into him and hits him in a way like only a smaller player can get away with doing that to a bigger guy. And then it causes kind of a melee.
Giannis at that point was like, all right, he is one of those guys. I don't think he gets enough credit for when you piss him off.
I'm not saying it's Jordan, but there's an alarm that goes off. Once Giannis is pissed off in a game, so he's just going to have to get pissed off, off I guess four times in this can can something happen to him enough where it just becomes unstoppable uh because they are the better team and I think the Bucs are still searching for it and you know even with Kevin Porter getting getting some better nights out of it like that's asking a lot of 40 plus minutes in that one game asking him to cover in a playoff rotation and, hey, don't have this fall apart.
Because there's other times, I'd say a couple weeks ago, I was like, what is Doc doing? And clearly Doc was like, I may need this dude. And we know how talented he is.
So he was letting him kind of run the show. That Houston game comes to mind when he was just a disaster.
But he's played better. But then I'm like, okay, so the Pacers, who I really like all really like all their depth I'm going to pick Milwaukee with them still trying to kind of figure this thing out on the fly you know in my favorite sports book ever Breaks of the Game which is about a trailblazer season the 79 and 80 season and Bill Walton's gone and Dr.
Jack Ramsey's trying to figure out what the team's identity is and just can't figure it out. And then near the end of the season, they bring up this guy, Billy Ray Bates, who becomes one of the best characters in the book.
And he's just basically this one-on-one ISO guy who doesn't play anything like the Dr. Jack style at all.
He's not like, you know, I pass, I cut. He's just like a one-on-one guy, but they're starting to play better with him.
And Dr. Jack has this crisis of philosophy of, this guy, I don't know, he gives us the best chance to win.
We just, let's start running plays for him. He starts really playing him.
I almost feel like that's the Porter thing with Doc, where he's just like, I'm out of moves. If this Porter thing doesn't work, we're fucked.
This guy can create shots for himself and other people and he plays hard and I guess we're going to have to use him if Dame doesn't come back because their best lineup has Porter in it now. So we'll see.
Yeah, because he is that good at getting wherever he wants on the floor and his athleticism and the finish and all that kind of stuff. Is there a Lopez conversation on how that conversation on how that plays out is kuzma gonna play great in the first half just prince hit enough shots um you know a.j green's clearly gonna get minutes because he's a major part of the rotation it is funny though when you think about the pacers and why you pick against him since the all-star break their eighth in defense which feels like impossible.
That group's figuring it out defensively enough. And Milwaukee's, yeah, 16th.
But they had a good record. I mean, they closed 19-10.
They're eighth in defense and first in stupid losses. That would be the other case for Milwaukee.
I think they need three honest games and then one game where Indiana does what they do, which is just to completely fuck up a winnable game and do two stupid things in the last minute and you can't believe they lost. So that's the recipe, I think.
But Giannis, I had Tatum third MVP all year. I don't know how you can put anybody ahead of Giannis.
No, I think that's my point. These last four weeks, like Giannis has to be third.

He just has to.

And I love the Tatum year, and we've talked about it a million times.

I just think he's been awesome.

I think he's been awesome as a two-way guy, as a rebounder.

I think he's fifth in points.

He's top 20 in rebounds.

He's top 20 in assists.

He's like maybe fifth in threes.

And he's guarded everybody in the league. But what Giannis did the last four weeks, I think he has to be third.
And then if you're putting him third, this will be a seven straight first team All-NBA. And during those seven years, he's averaged 30, 12, and six.
And this year he's averaging 30, 12, and 7. So this is like LeBron level consistency

where people 50 years from now

will be on whatever the version of basketball reference is.

I'm sure it'll be some sort of AI tablet

that you can just touch with your hand

and it just comes out of the thin air.

People will be looking at this like,

Jesus Christ, what about this Giannis guy?

It's like the same way you would look at

Carl Malone's seasons now and be like,

oh my God, he put up 29 and 10 for 12 years? This will be what? This will be seven. To me, he should finish third in the MVP and I even feel bad putting him there because of how special he is, but whatever.
We've got a great top of the MVP class this year, but it's going to be seven straight years with the top four finishing MVP. And you start putting that resume up against the birds and the magic.
All-timers, yeah. Yeah, he's pretty near that vicinity now, that Shaq, Hakeem, Moses area in the all-time grouping.
He's not there yet, but I think if he keeps going for a couple more years at this pace, it could happen. Did you land on Mitchell fifth for the MVP spot, or do you have somebody else? Or are you still figuring it out? No, I'm still figuring it out.
We still have, what, like four days? I'm still figuring it out, too. Because normally on the Sunday pod, we would do a lot of our picks, but I'm not.
I'm glad we're not.

I was like, oh, no, are we doing this today?

No.

I have, for Defensive Player of the Year, I'm pretty sure I already know what I'm doing,

but specifically on the defensive stuff, like I'm fine with all the other things,

but defensive stuff, I want to be able to make the rounds and talk to enough people because I just don't want to miss anything.

I don't want to be sitting there and look at defensive box score and going, well, this guy was better than this guy. If I gave you two of James Harden, Tyrese Halliburton, and Zubats, and I can only have two spots for third team on NBA, you're a modern NBA voter where you're just pick the best guys you don't care about the facsimile of a fake team um i mean i i don't know that that's true i feel a bit like the college football playoff commissioner where i'm never going to give you an answer i'm not going to talk about conferences being better than other conferences i'm going to say that all of it's factored in.
This is important. That's not not important.

So you have no set strategy?

I have fundamental beliefs,

but each year is a different field.

So I'm not going to tell you

that I'm prioritizing this all the time

because one year it may not matter as much.

You know, the standings thing,

I know I you guys do a couple weeks ago

and you didn't seem to like that very much,

but I was watching. I never like being you guys.
Yeah. I know you guys do a couple of weeks ago and you didn't seem to like that very much, but

I was watching being you guys. Yeah.
I never take anything personally though. I don't know if that's true, but I mean with you, no, but I was watching Zach, right? Yeah.
Fired up to have him on the team. And he was talking about his MVP vote and he was like, I've been SGA all season long.
And now I'm just starting to think like, how can I not vote for Jokic? This is what I brought to you last week. I'm really struggling with this and I don't have a pick yet.
I don't. You haven't decided who you're going to vote for MVP.
It's like, honestly, 50-50 for me. I watch Jokic.
But it's the standings, right? It's C, but it's the standings. And I think there's times you maybe, I mean, could it be the tiebreaker for an all-NBA? I don't think that's necessarily wrong, but I don't know, man.
I'm not having a hard time with this one. I'm voting for Jokic.
Oh, you've officially decided? Yeah, I decided a while ago. And I wouldn't say anything's happened recently where I'm like, oh, I'm wrong.

I went back through all the MVPs

that bothered me over the years

and over and over again.

Which was number one?

Well, just over and over again,

the standings-driven ones

are the ones where we get in the most trouble,

where we don't just divest ourselves completely

and be like,

who's actually the most valuable player? The problem with the SGA candidacy, and he's been amazing and we've talked about it, he's having one of the best guard offensive seasons in the history of basketball. But if you gave Jokic SGA's 2 through 12, I'm pretty sure he would be able to win 65 to 70 games with the team that SGA has.
And that's where it gets dicey. Now, they're a top five team.
I never want to have an MVP unless it's a team that has a good record that it's at least in the vicinity, right? They're one game away from being a three seed. They're one of the eight or nine best teams in the league.
But when you see all the dysfunction they clearly had the whole year, and over and over again, he would just, despite the odds, would just keep it together. And it was amazing to watch.
And it's going to be the first thing I remember about this season was watching him this year. So that to me, that was one of my, when I wrote my MVP column, it was like four things.
What are you going to remember first when you remember this season? For me, it's what Jokic did with this fucked up Nuggets team that fired their coach with a week left. And he had the greatest offensive season I've seen since Jordan played.
So it's like, that's what I'm struggling with because SGA has won 68 games and he was awesome. So dysfunction boost, is that new? Dysfunction boost? Well, yeah, it's like, what, like, was it even more dysfunctional than we could ever imagined? We, we heard, we knew all this shit, but I don't know what it's like to play in a basketball team where you have this much animosity behind the scenes.
Like maybe it doesn't matter as much as we think. I don't know.
It would seem like it would matter some. And it seems like they were really, really genuinely tired of Malone, which was a whole other issue beyond the whole, he's not communicating with the GM.
He's spitefully playing people that the GM likes or not playing. All that other shit.
But the fact that they almost got to 50 wins with how Murray looked the first two months,

like it's kind of incredible in the West.

They did.

Today was 50 wins.

50 wins with the season they had with all,

we did that live show in Denver.

When was that?

Beginning of December.

And we led with a whole thing about,

Jamal Murray had had like eight awful weeks at that point.

And we, that was like one of our lead things where we were like, let have an honest conversation about this he's never going to be the same next year like Murray's lighting it up or whatever then the national broadcast be like and he still never made an all-star game he'd be like okay do you want to go through the years again this is like the LeBron MVP thing yeah or the Kobe MVP thing is actually worse.

I think Jokic is the best player in the world. I think his

stats are close enough

depending on which metrics you want to look at, if

not superior to SGAs.

It'd be one thing if they were

a disastrous team on the

season, but I didn't really

have a hard time with it.

He's going to be the first thing

I remember about this season.

I've never seen...

More so than Shireman, the way he's closed?

Thank you. have a hard time with it.
He's going to be the first thing I remember about this season. I've never seen...
More so than Shireman, the way he's closed? Well, that's been pretty good. That's been watching some of the Joe Maz lineups.
Yeah, I was bummed that it's Clippers Nuggets because I have a vested interest in the Clippers advancing because I want to go to the games. Right.
But I loveic and I want to keep playing because I like watching him. I've just never...
The stuff that he did this season, I've never seen anything like it. I've never seen somebody do more for their team.
It's like, what the fuck else could he... He got every rebound.
He led the offense up. He took all of the shots in crunch time.
He literally did everything. Jalen Williams to you is an all-NBA guy or no?

Just in general.

Not ready to answer that.

He's certainly on the list.

Are you?

I have him tentatively in there right now

because I think what the season OKC had

and the season

Cleveland had, I find it hard to believe you can't

get too high. As you know, I gravitate a little bit more toward the record, especially with those late teams.
And I'm between Dort and Mobley for our Defensive Player of the Year now. I haven't decided either, but those are my two finalists.
Yeah, I'm kind of leaning Dort. It's another one of those, I can only judge what I've watched on TV and what I've seen in person.
And I just thought he was the guy that jumped out to me this year. Daniel's a little bit too, but I think some of the stuff Daniel's did just because it was so unique, just to watch somebody poke check somebody from 45 for the Bassets, I literally haven't seen that.
His hands were everywhere. His anticipation, it was awesome.
But that just wasn't a good enough defensive team. So you basically have to be Wembenyama at that point.
The thing with Dort is it's just like old school pickup basketball. Who's their best guy? It's that guy.
Lou, you're going to defend him. Don't let him score.
And then the guy doesn't score. Just refuse to be screened.
Or the guy has the worst end of his life. I normally always am going to just, I just think it's hard to have a perimeter guy and say this perimeter guy is as valuable as this other guy is.
It's a big who's coming over to help at the rim in the times where Mobley gets switched out of the perimeter guy and he holds up really well. So I've kind of struggled with the door mobily thing but i will tell you again defensively on these awards i like to talk to people because it's just the one you don't want to miss and it's a hard award to feel like okay i've absolutely nailed this especially when you do the first and second team and the draymond push has been incredible and i don't want to act like you're dismissing Draymond but sometimes there can be this push where you're like, you know, this is a six-month award.
Like, let's remember that. And Mobley, to start the season, there's some numbers that tell you like his impact was far greater in the first half of the season, second half of the season.
But back to the original, like asking people about defensive stuff, the number of times that people just kind of stop and take a breath when they talk about Lou Dort that are working in the league every night, it's like you can't help but be impressionable.

There was some, somebody wrote a piece about for two and a half straight months, nobody scored 30 on them.

And it was, I also think, and we talked about this when Marcus won defensive player of the year two years ago which you know I forget who he beat I think the perimeter defender is more important than it used to be for stuff like this just because all these teams have these awesome guys that you at least have to make work and I don't know I just what he did to Jalen Brown in that Boston game was just nuts. I watched them when they played.
I went to two OKC games and both times Harden was like, fuck. You could just see him.
He's like, Jesus Christ. Then if Dort comes out of the game, I have these other two.
The smart one felt like a campaign though too. He did all these interviews where he kept just going, oh, we never get to win it or you know right well they were number one in defense there were some good advanced metrics but yeah it's looking back maybe not i don't know i'd argue rob williams although you could then go okay but rob got to do what he did because he was on somebody in the corner who primarily it would be hopefully a non-shooter so then he could just roam and freelance the entire time so the perimeter guys usually it takes so much more for me to go into him.
And by the way, he actually beat another perimeter guy that year because Bridges was in second, Gobert was third. East, quickly, we talked about Bucks Pacers, Knicks Pistons, Knicks are minus 460.
We've been dying for this series. I think there's going to be, as it gets closer, some Pistons upset buzz.
I think it's a really hard ask if the five Knicks guys are all playing together. I was talking to a Knicks fan about this.
If you catch them on a night when one or two of those five guys aren't playing, they look incredibly vulnerable with reason because they don't really have a bench. But those five guys together with breaks between the games and all the guys they can throw at Cade, this just seems like a tall ask for them to...
And I think that's why the line reflects it. I really want to talk myself into a Pistons upset case, but I think just the fact that they made the playoffs, they're a six seed, they had the year they had, Cade established himself as a guy.
Duren has been, you know, I think he's now one of the best young centers in the league. Some of their signings are really smart.
That's kind of a win in itself. Now they're going to go in this series.
They'll bang the Knicks around. There'll be a couple altercations.
They'll make a name for themselves, and that's probably the win. If those five guys are healthy in the Knicks, I just don't see any way to trip it some.
Since the All-Star break, and granted, the numbers are a little weird for the Knicks, but who do you think is better defensively? I would bet the rating is better for Denver. I mean, at Detroit, because all the advanced metrics have been favorable for them last 30 games.
Since the All-Star break, the Knicks are 11th on defense. The Pistons are 15th.
So, and by the way, points-wise, it's a half a point. So it's not like some dramatic difference here.
Now, is that because Brunson was missing some of those games? Is there something there as opposed to, no, we have Mitchell Robinson back, but I'm with you. This feels a bit like, hey, you're going to get a little playoff season in Detroit.
This is an incredible story, but are you really going to beat the Knicks despite their flaws and the flaws that we would get into as they move a little bit further on? Because that's why the Pacers-Knicks scenarios where you were like, if they end up facing each other... That was bad for the Knicks.
Yeah, because it kind of felt like... Not a good series for them.
There were some similarities where you didn't like your point guard on defense, you didn't like your center on defense, but you liked some of your options around it. But that might be the problem.
It's not a fun series for Towns. That would not be my ideal Towns matchup.
The Pacers. Wouldn't enjoy that one.
The thing with the Pistons that I think is just really cool is the Bickerstaff leaves the Cavs, right? Yeah. The Cavs end up with 64 wins, and Atkinson is a coach of the year candidate.
And Bickerstaff goes to this other team and turns them around. And so you look at the Atkinson piece and you go, well, clearly he's a big improvement over Bickerstaff.
And yet Bickerstaff was a huge improvement over the worst coach of the 21st century, Monty Williams. And somehow it just all worked out for everybody.
so I guess I'm happy for Bickerstaff because it would have been one of those things where you just look like a schmuck that this team

just played way better when you left

but now out for everybody. I guess I'm happy for Bickerstaff because it would have been one of those things where you just look like a schmuck that this team just played way better when you left.
But now he got this other thing out of it. Is Cade the best player in the series? I think Brunson is.
I would say Brunson. Brunson's awesome.
Especially in a playoff series where he's going to have breaks between games Brunson's incredible I really when he made the 65 game limit I test drove what he would look like in the first NBA spot instead of Mitchell and I couldn't get there but I think he's been that special this year were you more tempted to go Brunson or Ant for Mitchell's spot? I test drove Ant as well. And then I did a long drive around the lap with Curry.
You went for a walk outside? Well, Curry's last week, I mean, that San Antonio loss was an abomination. They lost the two biggest games they played all year where that San Antonio or losses where that San Antonio loss and the one today.

I think if they win those games

and they're a three seed or a four seed,

I think that's a more interesting conversation.

He had it in his hands

if he was just awesome down the stretch.

I think he could have pushed Mitchell,

but I don't think the way they ended.

And by the way, that San Antonio loss

is the loss of the year.

That fucked up the playoff schedule the year. That fucked up the

playoff schedule nine ways.

It fucked up everything.

Because Harrison Barnes had

a revenge game.

And the Spurs with Chris Paul and Harrison Barnes

celebrated like they got to the final

four. This is a team that's tanking.

I'm sure

Warriors fans couldn't make a couple of those in

game seven.

Right. We had to take you out.
Nine nine years ago for Festus Azili playing stuff quickly who do you think the Cavs would want to face the most out of Magic Bull's heat you're leaving the Hawks out oh and the Hawks

all right all four of those

Magic, Hawks, Bullseed

the Hawks are pretty grim

if you look at their actual teams

they've beaten the last two months

versus the teams they've lost to

where it's one of those

we're not tanking

and a lot of these other teams

we're playing are

and we're getting some wins out of it

but the numbers are pretty grim if you actually look at it I I think that's why the Magic are five-point favorites in the playing game. Yeah, the records, I mean, they're both around 500, but Atlanta's defense is so bad that I think it's just, you know, if you're going up against somebody in the playoffs, you'd probably rather have a terrible, terrible defense just knowing that this is going to be easy work.
Even in the night where we're not feeling it, we're not making threes. Like, are we actually going to be scared of anything? As opposed to Orlando, who we know their offense at times has been unwatchable and it's improved from unwatchable the last few weeks.
But it's a one-two punch of Paolo and Franz.

So, you know, and I think you could look at some of the Miami stuff,

but it's just that Miami's at best a very average basketball team.

So.

Can I do a cousin of you guys?

Yeah.

People forget?

Yeah.

Vaguely insulting when you start the people forget.

But in this case, I do think people have forgotten how big the Jalen Johnson injury was that might be the number one people forget Jalen Johnson was playing awesome and if Atlanta had Jalen Johnson with the team that they have, the rest of the guys I kind of like some of the guys in that team and I don't even think the Hunter trade the guys that guys that got back from those, those guys are playing for them. If they had Jaylen Johnson, this would be a lot more interesting as kind of a frisky eight seed that might be able to steal a game or two.
When he was still playing, I was tracking touches. Just how many touches do you have? So it's pretty clear.
Jokic has more, he touches the basketball more times in a basketball game than any other player in the league. And Trey's usually right around there, if not other years where he's led the league in total touches over the course of the entire season.
During the time Jalen Johnson was playing, he'd be like third or fourth in the NBA. That's how important he was and how much they trusted him.
And think about that too, playing off of Trey and having another guy that actually has that many touches.

And he looks like he's on the way to, I don't know if he's like a superstar, changes the face of the franchise kind of thing.

But he was really special and a lot of fun to watch.

So you're right.

Like, look, every summer, we'll do it again next year.

We do the over-unders and we're like, you know what roster I do kind of like, despite some of the obvious concerns? Yeah. It's Atlanta.
So pencil me in for like another year of doing that. I think that was the second biggest injury of the year in terms of the actual playoff stuff other than Kyrie, which if the Mavs had Kyrie, that's the team that they have.
it's at least a team that, uh, you know,

you know you'd have to throw a couple haymakers against now it's like without him it's ridiculous I think you're right about that I have Jalen Johnson second though even ahead of Wemby like if San Antonio Wemby I don't feel like oh watch out San Antonio could maybe beat steal a couple games from anyone in round one. But Atlanta, I don't know.
But don't you think, look, San Antonio, they could be five betters, five games better, right? They were five out of the 10 spot. Yeah.
I just felt like their supporting cast felt like it was a year away. Next year.
Yeah. That's fair.
Next year would be pretty interesting. You know what else would have been interesting if the Mavs had gotten Austin Reeves in the Luka trade, which they should have just asked for.
Or if San Antonio would have offered more contract. That could have happened too.
I was talking to somebody about that this week. How does Dallas not say, look, Reeves has to be in the deal or it's not happening? I just don't think Palenka, we'll talk about this for the rest of our lives.

I just don't think Palenka is like too much.

I'm walking away.

No, now you push me too far.

There's no way he doesn't say, fine, take Reeves.

It's my favorite part.

Forget about what it would be like lining up a putt

to win the Masters on 18.

How would you handle that?

Yeah.

I do like, I like to take ourselves through the exercise of if this person calls you and offers you this will you have the balls to say no to something that you desperately want knowing that okay this fixes for all of like this lakers window extending and you know running in denver in the last couple playoffs like hey if something bounces our way has actually been, I think, a more successful run for the Lakers than they actually get credit for. But because LeBron's on the team, they're held to maybe the standard they're supposed to be a title contender, so then they're brought up as a title contender on TV shows, and you and I have talked about it.
We're going into this year, they're like, look, they're probably not going to have the same health luck that they had with AD and LeBron the year prior. If they're healthy in the playoffs to get the right matchup, maybe.
But this is a team that won a title, what, half a decade ago. And here we go.
Like, I don't know. I can't figure them out.
Like, I don't know if I should be picking them because I can't imagine that they would beat OKC in a seven game series if they're lucky enough to get that far. OK, but looking at that would be in the Western Conference finals, looking at that moment where you're Nico and you go, well, I have to ask for more because Palenka can't actually say like Palenka would never bring it up.
Maybe like, you know, I was this close to getting Luca, but I wouldn't include Reeves and you would just go luca solves the next five years of your what if 15 next 15 years let's call it seven let's call it 12 to get worked that bad it's still it's been two months since the trade and i still i did a monologue on it the other day and i still felt like it was somewhat relevant great because it was his first time coming back and he has 31 in the first half but like it it's so bad that I don't think they can fire him because they all acted like they were all on the same page and they're going to have to like ride it out where was the one guy whether it was Dumont or anybody else it it was just like, hold on. We're trading Luka.
We're not going to get Reeves. It's not Davis.
Like, we're just making the Lakers like much better. Imagine if Nico says, well, then they would have said no.
And we're like, oh great um i think you can hate can you hate your own like the one guy that had the say in it thought the least of the asset in the entire basketball world the one guy that exists right because there's always like one guy he's like oh he's not that good i think skip tried skip bayless tried to have a lebron

oh rory tweet or something or it didn't i don't know it was basically just a new way to shit on lebron and interesting yeah i was like cool tricep pulled in the lab bro yeah he was in the lab just baking them so there's always one person that will find a way to say the thing that like you can't fucking believe somebody believes. And the one person happened to be the guy who was running the Dallas Mavericks when it came to Luka.
So I got more intel on that trade. It was a known thing 90 minutes before the trade.
It was done 90 minutes before it was actually announced.

Maybe even a little more than that. Okay, but that's not unusual.
But they tried to make it seem like nobody knew until the very last second. I think way more people knew.
And I think it got around the league a little bit before it actually got reported. And And I think the consensus was, there's no way this is true because that can't be what Dallas got for Luca.
This has to be some sort of, there's no way this can't be true. And then it was true because the instant reaction is, wait, they're trading Luca.
Why didn't they shop him? And then the second one is, wait, Reeves isn't in this? That's the whole trade? That was the second thing. And then how they hid it from everybody and didn't shop it, I guess.
We'll be talking about it forever. It's one of the seminal moments of the 21st century in the National Basketball Association.
The stupid trade they made. I remember 2025 because you were able to be professional enough to go to YouTube live that night with me and Mahoney and do an hour of content.
In nine minutes. Knowing deep down for personal reasons, how much you hate this fucking transaction.
You know, it's been interesting with the Laker fans and I'm just, I know a few of them. Even they're like not talking like crazy shit about about it because they can't believe it happened.
They're not like,

we're the Lakers.

They're just like,

it's like

a check for a million dollars

made out to nobody just floated

into their front door and they grabbed it and

just wrote their name and cashed it.

Nobody was ever going to find out. It's one of those.

It's like a fucking borderline miracle.

If you're a Laker fan,

you just can't believe it.

Like,

what did he have the other night?

He just randomly had,

what,

like 41,

13,

45,

13,

and nine.

Are you talking about the Mavs game?

Yeah.

No,

I'm talking about the last game he played.

He played one more game,

what,

on Friday night?

And had another one.

He's just like,

a normal game for him is 38, and it kills me oh the houston game yeah uh yeah he had 39 and it's it's even a typical game yeah look at 39 it was even worse than that dallas game too because then ad's not doing anything he's like having the bad ad game because I always think it's so stupid when the guys are on TV going like, hey, AD's not a bad player.

Like, no shit.

Yeah.

All of us have TVs.

We know AD is really good.

And he was awesome last year.

But what are you talking about?

Well, but the other piece of it is if the Lakers had the version of AD that's basically existed since mid-January, they wouldn't be in the playoffs. They'd be like a 9 or a 10 playing team, right? Because they wouldn't have had AD this whole time.
They would have put this huge burden on LeBron. They would have the same lack of room protection they have now.
It's really nuts. That's also another thing in the Lakers conversation

though, because over that 18-3 stretch

where their defense was first or second

in the league, it was going for a month.

Because when they added Luka, I think it was fair

to also look at the perimeter

defense going like, okay, but how

is this going to hold up on the perimeter?

Are these guys, is Luka going to get hunted?

I think Reeves does a good job of being

in position. He's one of those guys that's smart, but clearly there's going to be times if you get him deep enough, you can overpower him a little bit.
And then night to night, like, look, I expect that we're going to see a more consistent effort, somebody that's willing to not just switch into advantages for him to rest himself with LeBron. Like, I imagine he's going to play with more intensity on that side of the basketball.
But the last 15, you know, whatever, you can throw it all away, but they're 21st in defense. So when they were one of the three best defenses in the NBA for over a month after they had made the trade, I couldn't, we could talk about coaching.
We're giving the staff all of this credit and like game in and game out. I think they prep, they adapt better.
It's almost like a football team going into a Sunday being like, this is the game plan specific, which can get lost in NBA regular season.

But I'm with like,

that felt it just like,

there's no way they're this good.

They're not going to be a top five defense.

Like,

Hey,

it starts with defense with that group.

Maybe they outscore Minnesota,

but,

and it doesn't really matter what the scores were before,

but those are actually lower scoring games,

but they had played so long ago.

Again,

it's pretty Lucas,

so it doesn't really matter.

It's going to

be a bitch of a playoff team to play

with how they execute offense,

with how hard they are to officiate,

especially when they're

home. It's just going to be really hard.
And again, the whole

point of Luka is when

it all falls apart

and you need a bucket,

it's 1-10-1-10, and you're under a a minute and everybody knows everything you're doing and it's game four and they're gonna sell out and it's just like i'm just gonna score and it's at its worst is it the second or third best thing in the entire league of like hey i need a bucket and we have playoff success to prove that that works. As much as Boston ran him into the ground defensively and all that kind of stuff, you've traded this thing that is the most important thing to actually succeed in the playoffs.
Him with the ball deciding what he's going to do. It might be the best thing.
We've known this forever because if you go back when we did our, or you weren't with us yet, but we did the 2018 NBA draft stuff, and my argument for Luke over Ayton was like, this is the league now. You have to have a guy like this.
That's how you win titles unless nobody knew Jokic was going to turn into Jokic, but you need, it's a perimeter game. The threes are becoming more important.
Like, you have to have one of these guys if you're going to try to win the title year after year. And the Lakers have one of these guys.
Jokic might give you the best look. Donchers probably give you the best shot.
Well, now that Jokic has mastered this thing he does where he's basically, I don't even know. We need a name for it.
When he has the ball 25 feet from the basket and he backs the guy down does the whirling does that thing and then all of a sudden he's four feet from the basket I don't know how he does it and I don't know what it's called I don't know how you stop it the only way teams seem to stop it is they send a small guard and they try to kind of out of nowhere to his blindside and try to strip him but he doesn't have a blindside because he's doing this all the time. I have a couple quick things.
Oh, and then OKC versus Grizzlies, Mavs, Kings. Is there anything that says to you that would even go more than four games? Is there one team that could take a game off the Thunder? I don't think it's Dallas, man.
When they had a lineup out there, it was one center lineup. And I think on the prun perimeter, it was Dinwiddie, Najee, Klay.
And then I think PJ may have been playing power forward with the center. And the amount of resistance that wasn't happening on the perimeter defensively.
And even PJ, who you think at least physically can hold up and stuff. He lost LeBron in one of those places.
I'm just watching it going like, alright. Even if AD and Kyrie were

here, they have some lineups where they'd have to

maybe switch some guys out and just go, we're going to have to

hold up defensively here

with some better options there. Memphis,

I know exactly what it's going

to look like at the end of the playoff game. Maybe it'll

go in. Maybe it won't.

Dallas gets a win because

they don't have to play home again.

If they

win two playing games, they're both on the road. And maybe during that second playing game, maybe you start thinking deep down in the deeper existence of your soul.
Wouldn't mind the season ending. We'll see what happens.
I have a couple other storylines for you that we'll go. Bub Carrington.
Yeah, let's do it. Carrying the Wizards to a win.
Knocking them out of the one spot. I was torturing House.
It was the funniest. So Utah has the number one spot.
Now, the top three are Utah, Washington, Charlotte. They have 14%.
Right. So it doesn't matter from an odd standpoint, but it does matter if you get jumped what the sequencing is.
It just brings you closer to having one of the top three. And the Wiz, I don't know how it would have shook out if, I think they were in the head spot ahead of Utah, because Utah won a couple days ago.
It comes down to Bub Carrington with four seconds left, beating two guys off the dribble and doing a double clutch fling off the backboard

that goes in and then he's mobbed.

And it felt a little Joe Milton-y to me.

I got to be honest, Priscilla.

It's a little Joe Milton PTSD kicked in.

It was like, you know what that reminds me of?

When the Pats had the number one pick

that they would have been able to trade

for three first-round picks

because everybody loves Cam Ward and instead were picking fourth in a three-player draft. That's what I thought.
Yeah, that was a tough one for Pats fans because you're like, well, you know what? That group competed, and they can use that in 25. Remember when we were supposed to lose? We fought really hard.
We can build on that. You're like, yeah, we can build on it with less resources.
Yeah, just with two less first-round picks,

and now we're going to take a left tackle who should go ninth with the fourth pick.

Question for you.

Would you rather the Sixers or Spurs win the lottery?

Spurs.

Okay.

I know last week we both agreed pretty quickly without any discussion

that the Sixers winning the lottery would be the grossest of all the outcomes. It would be disgusting.
Are the Spurs a little? No, because the Wimby thing seems like a legitimate medical thing by all accounts. Well, yeah.
Correct? Yeah. I think Goldsberry's been pretty good on that.
Yeah. I feel like they've handled everything correctly.
I like that they beat Golden State in that game. Yeah, the Philly thing would be gross.
Did you see... Oh, that was another thing I had on my list.
Daryl said him and Nurse are coming back next season. I got to say, I was genuinely surprised.
We're taping this right now. It's a little past 6 o'clock Sunday, so who knows? Monday morning we might wake up and that might not be true.
But I was surprised to see that both guys feel like they're coming back. You cool with that? Cool with that from what standpoint? You think it's the right decision? I need more intel on who decided it was a good idea to let Joel Embiid play in the Olympics and then give him a giant extension.
Whoever's decision that was should probably pay some sort of consequence. It felt like it was turning on Daryl when the news came out.
It was like, yeah, and ownership was really hesitant about giving Joel that deal. And you're like, oh, really? The guys who have to pay the $200 million were hesitant about doing it? Because that's usually not what it works.
Next topic. I only have two more.
Mikael Bridges kept his consecutive game streak alive. I don't know if you saw it today.
He checked in for six seconds and came out. Yeah, committed a foul.
So AC Green did this when he broke his nose, came in with a mask for, I think, three or four games and checked in and checked out to keep the streak going.

I both don't care at all.

And I also really, truly hate this.

I hate it.

But I also don't care.

I really hated it when AC Green did it.

I forget who's when he broke.

It was like Randy Smith, maybe.

The old Buffalo Braves.

Is that true?

Yeah, I think there was some high. it was, it was, again, I was so much younger then,

right?

So it was 1996.

I remember,

I think there was some high fives that he gave the guys as he came out.

Like he had done something cool.

And that just really bothered me.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think it was Randy green,

nine Oh six,

Randy green.

Were they related?

I'm not Randy green,

Randy Smith.

Okay.

Who, who beat a, your guy, Johnny red curve. Oh, that Not Randy Green.
Randy Smith. Okay.
Who beat your guy Johnny Red Kerr.

Oh, that's my guy. 844.

I know you're a big fan.

Randy Smith from

Buffalo State?

Yeah, he was good.

He was a 14th round pick. Talk about a

sleeper. I think he was in the All-Star game.

He's an All-Star.

Yeah. Good shooting guard.
Yeah. Good basketball card.
He was 24th in the MVP voting in 76. He has one of the cards of my favorite card set of all time, the 1976 Big Boy Tops.
Randy Smith's in there. Last thing for you.
I just want to congratulate the NBA one more time for just fucking up their schedule. Oh, come on.
I don't understand. You've been nice the whole pod.
So you have two games that matter today, right? Yeah. Two games that we know are going to matter.
Houston, Denver, Golden State Clippers, because Minnesota is obviously going to kill Utah. Why not nudge those games by like two hours or 90 minutes, anything? Your whole goal is for people who love basketball to watch the league that you have, but then maybe also get some casual fans who are like, not sure how much I love basketball, but that game was really awesome and now I want to watch more.
Or hey, maybe my kid can come in and we'll watch the second half of this Clippers Warriors game that really means something. And instead, you're just intentionally going against a Masters that gets 10 to 14 million people.
And you get blown away in the last day of your season by this Warwick thing. And it's just like, it's just like a self-inflicted wound.
I don't get it. Either move the game two hours or move the schedule two weeks or I don't, I just, They're the most stubborn fucking league,

and I don't know why I love it sometimes.

It really frustrates me.

Okay, well, I think what they're doing with Saturday,

trying to give everybody equal footing, right?

Give everybody the day off.

Make sure it's not back-to-back.

Seating stuff is really going to matter.

Some years it's going to go great.

This year was thick.

We had UFC and boxing last night.

We were fine.

And baseball.

I'm back on baseball, but I'm meaning to talk to you about it.

The TV game is so competitive right now.

I mean, I'm back on baseball, but I'm meaning to talk to you about it.

The TV game is so competitive right now.

I mean, unless you just say, hey, let's make sure we're never going to be going up against the Masters for Games 82.

Okay, does that mean you move it all to Monday?

But you keep moving this stuff around, the play-in part of it. Couldn't you nudge it two hours?

Like, what would Goodell do?

Here's a good example.

What would Goodell do in this situation if he had the crown jewel of the Sunday slate turns out it's

Clippers Warriors? Goodell would be like, fuck it. We're putting that on NBC eight o'clock on

Sunday night and we're blowing this out and making this an event, which is what they should have done

with Clippers Warriors. Instead, they buried it at one o'clock in the afternoon PT.
Okay,

but isn't the fear if you do that, flex it out nba version of it that game could be totally pointless too at some point or do you make that decision just days ahead of time yeah no you make it like 24 hours ahead of time okay we knew yesterday we knew what the most important game was you and i were texting about it it's like clips warriors, Clips Warriors, this game matters. Not sure if Rockets, Nuggets are going to matter.
We know Clips Warriors is going to matter. Anyway, I just...
The league that is in great shape and hit the jackpot with this Luka trade, it's the single best thing that happened to the league this decade and is in the running maybe since the decision and LeBron going to Miami and all the stuff they got from that as the biggest thing that happened in the league. They have this 25-year-old incredible offensive player now on the single most important franchise in the league, at least from a popularity, maybe second in a history standpoint, but they hit the jackpot with this.

So it's in a good spot.

And now you have Steph Curry playing

to try to not avoid the play-in

against a Clippers team that's really fun to watch.

I don't know. I would have blown it out.

I am watching baseball again, Rosillo.

Yeah, you sent me a text

about it today. Well, Crochet was throwing a no-hitter

that I didn't want to tell you was throwing a no-hitter

because I was trying to obey the no-hitter rules. But yeah, Red Sox team.
A lot of bats. Bats have been a little quiet so far.
But likable team. I'm back.
Five-year hiatus. They have the second most runs in the American League.
Bats have been quiet. Expect them more.
They had a 19-run game. That's why the runs are where they were.
A lot of parity at the top of the American League, just like Jeff Passon told us. Flat.
All right, so you're doing your pot on Tuesday and Thursday this week. Tuesday, Thursday.
For some reason, the playing games are Friday. I don't really understand why we didn't stagger those either and why we gave away Thursday night completely, but

that's what they decided to do.

And then we'll be back Sunday

with a whole

playoff. Yeah.

The most fun weekend of the year.

That first, the eight games,

overreactions left and right.

I'm just telling you now, I'm going to be

overreacting all over the place.

When are you doing your awards, Tuesday or Thursday? I could save it to unveil the ballot with you next Sunday. Why don't we do that? I think it's more fun.
When is our stuff due? I think it's the 18th. I'm happy to do that with you.
Yeah. Well, we already had some revelations.

I don't think people realize that Jokic has

maybe a little bit better chance to win MVP

than people realize.

I don't think anybody's going to be surprised

by what I've said, but yeah, you're right.

That'd be something you'd be good at

because I feel like there's times I'll text Rudy

about a topic for our Tuesday, Thursday, and then I go, you know, this would be better with Bill. Like available belts.
Available belts. Podcast guest availability? No, no, no, no, no.
I'm talking NBA, maybe belt availability would be the better way to title it. Oh, for an award? No, meaning like I like when you do which player has had the belt, right best player in the world yeah when did he have it who got it next how long did this player have it how short was this guy's belt run okay so if you went to the entire league right now and say all right jokic has the belt how many other players like how long is the list of...

It doesn't seem crazy where you're going like, okay, that

guy could at some point be the

best player in the world. That list is not

over 10 players, I don't think. However,

I'd also say that we have three

recent belt holders

that no one could have

ever seen, even if you were being

incredibly generous, between Giannis,

Jokic especially, and even Kawhi. It's like at one point, that guy's going to be the best player in the world, and it's three in a pretty short amount of time.
We both worked those two drafts when Giannis and Jokic got picked. And yeah, Jokic I think had the lowest, didn't he have the lowest jump in the history of the combine or something?

Like a 17-inch vertical leap?

I looked at my Jokic scattering report that I wrote up.

We were in commercial when he got drafted.

Right.

I looked it up because I always like to go back and be like,

I wonder what I thought of this guy, right?

Sometimes it's fun.

A lot of times it's horrifying.

But it was like, man, this guy's a lot of fun. And then at at the end it was like, but come on, dude, like give me a break.
Right. Yeah.
So you think he's like Omar, what was that guy's name? Omar Samhan, that, that center that came in and was lighting up people of March Madness. Well, the first time, and I would only be able to watch him on Synergy.
So I would just go back cause he was on the list. And because I i was doing my own stuff i didn't want to just read everybody else's stuff and then i would do the draft on whatever i don't even know if we even talked about the second rounders when they're even picked because we'd interview so many people on the live broadcast for radio like radio back then when we did the draft it was like interview interview interview i mean then you're listing the last five picks after the interview it's like nick johnson got taken.
Right. We're able to get Nikoli Jokic from Serbia.
So when you first watch

Jokic... Then you're listing the last five picks after the interview.
It's like Nick Johnson got taken. Right.
We're able to get Trey Burr.

Nikoli Jokic from Serbia.

So when you first watch Jokic, you're like, what is this?

This is hilarious.

I can't believe you did this.

I can't believe you did that.

But then, again, athletically, you're just like, well, this wasn't.

Well, remember once upon a time there was a Jokic versus Nurkic.

Which guy should they keep was an actual storyline that was probably 2017 range

they have these two centers

which one should stay

it feels like they knew

yeah it seems like they knew

no question

even Giannis

was physically so

ridiculous

but what I saw him

it was just and I know I've talked

about this before but

Thank you. Giannis was physically so ridiculous, but what I saw him, it was just, and I know I've talked about this before, but he was just beating up on these dudes and this lower level stuff where you didn't really even know like what to make of what you were watching.
It looked like a record game. Yeah.
Also, he was 6'9". Yeah.
And grew three inches after they picked him, which was a miracle for them. Not as much of a miracle as getting Luka Doncic for Anthony Davis and Max Christie and one first round pick, but a miracle nonetheless.
All right, Rosillo, uh, I'll see you in a week. Enjoy the, uh, playing games and everything else.
And, uh, good pod. Enjoy your votes.
That's it for the podcast. Don't forget new rewatchables coming on monday i'm also going to be popping on zach lowe's podcast uh later on monday so stay tuned for that thanks to jonathan and ronick and jesse and saruti for producing this one and uh i will

be back on this podcast on Tuesday. Stay tuned.
I don't have feelings with them

On the wayside

I'm a person that I don't have

Must be 21 plus in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
Call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut

or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

Hope is here.

Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org

or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts

or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY

or text HOPE-NY in New York.