NFL Preseason Hype Buy or Sell. Plus, Spike Lee on Basketball and Movies | With Danny Kelly

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Speaker 1 The Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new rewatchables.

Speaker 1 On Monday, we did Rollerball, which came out in 1975 and is one of the first great modern sports movies. Brian Koplin and I broke it down.

Speaker 1 You can listen to it or watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel or on Spotify.

Speaker 1 Next Monday, we're doing a movie that came out 50 years after Rollerball. I think this is the biggest disparity we've ever had between an old movie and a new movie, a 50-year difference.

Speaker 1 We're doing Sinners.

Speaker 1 Best movie I saw this year. I've seen it a bunch of times and cannot wait to talk about it.
So that's going to be on Monday. Stay tuned for that.

Speaker 1 Spike Lee and I talked about that a little bit later, actually, when we did

Speaker 1 our interviews. So you can look forward to that.

Speaker 1 Want to talk while we're talking about movies, Mission Accomplished, New Narrative Podcast that's going to be on the big picture podcast it's about uh the 2000s the bush years and a deeper dive into some of the films that came out right after uh america was going through 9-11 and a whole bunch of other stuff so that premiered august 12th and uh you can check it out on the big picture podcast on this podcast danny kelly's coming in and we're going to talk about all the preseason nfl hype

Speaker 1 What do we believe? What do we not believe? What are we actually even more excited about than the hype? I told him 25 minutes and I think we went 50. So a lot of NFL, a lot of NFL going on.

Speaker 1 Can't wait for it to come back. We're getting close.
And then Spike Lee for the second time ever.

Speaker 1 He has a new movie coming out. And that is not what we spent the first half hour talking about because we had to catch up on a lot of basketball stuff.

Speaker 1 He came over to the new studio and did it. I'm getting back in the swing with these celebrity interviews.
I'm trying to remember how to do them. It's been so long.

Speaker 1 Once COVID happened, I hate interviewing people on Zoom. We had had this great run of interviews in 16, 17, 18, 19, and then COVID just stopped it.
But now I want to get back in this swing.

Speaker 1 So Spike's helping me get my

Speaker 1 chops back, but I had a great time.

Speaker 1 A lot of good stuff that came out of that too. So this is a big action-backed podcast.
One note, I will not have a podcast on Sunday.

Speaker 1 unless there's some sort of major sports event or something, but I'm probably not coming back until middle of next week. So just keep that one in mind.
We're going to take a break.

Speaker 1 We're going to do Pearl Jam and then Danny Kelly. And then finally, Spike Lee right after this.

Speaker 1 All right, recording this late Wednesday, so if anything happens, don't blame us. Danny Kelly is here.
You can read him on the ringer.com. You can listen to him on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show.

Speaker 1 An excellent show. We'll be doing our little four-person preview on this podcast a little later in August.
Danny Kelly, I was thinking about it. This is our

Speaker 1 10th NFL season together. Wow.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, it is. That's right.
Because the ringer was June 2016.

Speaker 1 And this is season number 10. So what was going on in September 2016?

Speaker 1 Oh, man.

Speaker 1 We still had Tom Brady. Peyton Manning was gone.
Rodgers was becoming the king.

Speaker 1 The Seahawks were still relatively relevant, right? There was still a chance that they were going to kind of keep their dynasty alive, but it just didn't happen after that.

Speaker 1 The Kingdoms were getting a lot of hype and not coming through, which is just like now.

Speaker 1 Deja vu. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We had all these quarterbacks we didn't really have yet, like Josh Allen and Mahomes. None of those guys were on the radar yet.
We were wondering who the next wave was going to be.

Speaker 1 Early on in my tenure at the Ringer, we did Cleveland Browns week. I can't remember exactly what season it was.
It might have been that first season.

Speaker 1 Obviously,

Speaker 1 that didn't pan out so well.

Speaker 1 We probably had a sponsor for it who left who was like, I don't want to sponsor the segment. I'm out.

Speaker 1 Give us our money back.

Speaker 1 So it is officially preseason hype time. You pointed this out.
I said, hey, I need an NFL segment. I want us to do something.
And you're like, well,

Speaker 1 it's preseason hype season. It's almost mid-August.
This is when we overreact to stuff, good and bad. We're going to play a game called Buy or Sell.

Speaker 1 So it's preseason hype. It's not just the good hype.
This is also the uh-oh. train wreck coming kind of hype.
It's all kinds of hype.

Speaker 1 What's your number one preseason hype either way that you've been like, huh, what's going on here?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 this is tough because there's a lot of really fun things. I'm one of those sickos that likes to watch preseason football and get really into the nitty-gritty.

Speaker 1 The first one I want to bring up is the Bears offense, the situation that's going on with the Bears offense. I feel like there's Bears' despair right now with Camp.

Speaker 1 It's weird because at the same time, there's really good vibes with Ben Johnson. Like that signing was electric and everything they've done from like the coaching point of view has been good.

Speaker 1 But I think all the reviews so far from camp and everything that you're seeing on Twitter and kind of just what's happening at practices, it feels like it's not going so well.

Speaker 1 So I am officially selling Bears to Spair. I'm holding out.
I still have hope. I still have faith that the Bears are going to be a pretty good offense.

Speaker 1 It's going to be a huge upgrade over what we saw last year. So do you think this is a case of the offense is just way more elaborate than it was last year?

Speaker 1 And it's the classic, everyone's just trying to figure out stuff. Everybody's got way more jobs on 50 different plays than they had before.
And it's just super choppy. Yes.

Speaker 1 And I think the nice part, it's like one of those things where as the season goes along, I think it's going to start to look a lot better.

Speaker 1 I know Ben Johnson is sort of known for being very detail-oriented.

Speaker 1 And to me, what that says is early on in training camp, he's going to be so focused on all those details that they're going to have to kind of keep going over it,

Speaker 1 getting all the motions correct, getting the snaps just just how he wants it, getting everybody in the right place.

Speaker 1 But I think that was kind of a, you know, that was a big part of the reason their offense just wasn't good last year. It's like guys aren't going into the right spot.

Speaker 1 You got guys that are not fully bought in with the offensive system or like whatever, the coaching. DJ Moore's walking off the field during a play.
You know, that was just kind of the type of thing.

Speaker 1 That wasn't great.

Speaker 1 That to me was just like the biggest.

Speaker 1 indication of how terrible everything could have possibly gone. Like Caleb Williams is scrambling around and DJ Moore just walks off the field.
And I'm like, okay,

Speaker 1 that's the biggest indication. This is just an absolute train wreck.
But

Speaker 1 if you go through, obviously, I think

Speaker 1 the Ben Johnson hiring to me is like one of the biggest hirings of this kind of era. It has the potential to be kind of like that Sean McVay thing.

Speaker 1 Obviously, we've seen guys with a ton of hype that don't end up being very good. And that could be the case with Ben Johnson.

Speaker 1 But everything we've talked about for the last two or three years is Ben Johnson, you know, genius play caller, genius play designer, play sequencer.

Speaker 1 You know, he's pulling out end arounds, hooking ladders, passing to tackles, passing to,

Speaker 1 you know, having double passes, everything. Like he has been more in his bag as a play caller than any other offensive play caller in the NFL over the last few years.

Speaker 1 And so to me, that is a huge, huge upgrade, especially when you compare it to like Shane Waldron last year. I mean, Shane Waldron has become kind of a butt of jokes, but

Speaker 1 the thing that we always talk about on our show is there was an interview last offseason with Jackson Smith and Jigba.

Speaker 1 And he was asked, like, what do you think of the Shane Waldron hiring for the Bears? And

Speaker 1 Smith and Jigba was like,

Speaker 1 are we live here? Is this our nose?

Speaker 1 He's like, he's a good person.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Nice guy.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, I think that's a massive upgrade. They've done a lot to work on their offensive line.
I saw PFF has the Bears going into this year as the fourth best offensive line.

Speaker 1 That's a bit of an an outlier, but I've seen, you know, fantasy points has them 15th. Draft Sharks has them 10th.
FTN has them 12th. So

Speaker 1 they have the potential to be a top half of the league offensive line if everybody kind of works out what they brought in. They drafted Colson Loveland, Luther Burden, year two of Roma Dunze.

Speaker 1 Hopefully he's healthy. I'm just kind of buying all the different ingredients here, and I still have belief in Caleb Williams, even though obviously he looked terrible as a rookie.

Speaker 1 Most of the time, I mean, he had some pretty good games too, but the lows were just really concerning.

Speaker 1 And so hopefully, Ben Johnson can just eliminate some of those really, really bad games and kind of raise the floor for the whole offense.

Speaker 1 You left out the Bill Simmons rankings, which I sent to you. You're the only person I sent them to.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I had the top four, Denver, Buffalo, Philly, Tampa for offensive lines, but the next tier, Indy, Atlanta, Minnesota, and Chicago. Yeah.
I think they're a top eight.

Speaker 1 If you just look at like the amount of money they spent, the people they have and the talent and the ages, like it just, you know, and I defer to all the offensive line girl, like Brandon Thornton, people like that.

Speaker 1 And all of them are like, that line's going to be good. The Chargers, I think, I had potentially up there, but after this later thing, not happening.
So the Bears piece,

Speaker 1 it feels like it's going to be choppy. I feel like we've seen this before in other NFL situations where it takes like a month.
Right. And I have my eye on them like as a second half.

Speaker 1 I'm just trying to file this away for

Speaker 1 from a betting standpoint.

Speaker 1 I think their over-unders, eight and a half which to me feels a whiff low because if you're just going to pigpile on a on a division i think that's one of the divisions to look at and i think the other one would be the nfc west if you're like there's a 40 plus win division sitting here in one of these conferences nfc north and afc west i think would be the two picks

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 the the problem for me with them

Speaker 1 Just like as I think of them big picture, is,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 some of the schedule stuff and all the night games, games, like they, we get to week 13. They're playing a Friday night.
They're week 16, a Saturday night, week 17, Sunday night football.

Speaker 1 They play two other Monday night games. It's like for a team that wasn't good last year,

Speaker 1 they're being treated like they're a national TV thing, but they go Vikings first week of the season. And that's the thing that really scares me.

Speaker 1 I think there's a case for the Vikings defense to be the best defense this year. If you're going to say, who's the best defense this year?

Speaker 1 And you're just listing candidates, Vikings, Texans are in there.

Speaker 1 Steelers still have to be in there, even though I think they're going to slip off a little bit.

Speaker 1 Is there anybody else you would even put in that conversation? It's probably the Vikings in the number one spot. I mean, yeah, for preseason.

Speaker 1 So they're playing from week one on Monday night, which makes me nervous. This is going to, yeah, and please, remember, I'm not saying week one, they're going to be a very good offense.

Speaker 1 I think as the year goes on, we're going to start to see the Ben Johnson effect take hold. I think it's going to be a tough one, that week one against the Vikings.

Speaker 1 You know, they're going to make his, they're going to make Caleb Williams' life kind of hell and disguising shit. Oh, these guys are, no, now these guys are going.
100%.

Speaker 1 It's going to be a nightmare. Yeah.
But I think that's going to be. That'll be our overreaction week one.
It's like, the Bears are dead. Caleb Williams' career is over.

Speaker 1 And then there'll be like five and four after week 10. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. I like that one.

Speaker 1 I'm going, I'm going chalk with this first pick.

Speaker 1 I saw my guy, Peter Schrager. I saw a clip of him on one of the ESPN shows because he's on a bunch of them now.
And he was doing this. And I was laughing because I knew it was coming.

Speaker 1 I wish I could have bet on this on FanDuel.

Speaker 1 The Giants knew Abdul Carter was going to be good.

Speaker 1 They didn't know he was going to be this good.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is the official week of, holy shit, this guy might already be one of the most impactful defensive guys in the league.

Speaker 1 This was the devastation of the Patriots with the Joe Milton game, who, of course, plays his first preseason game for Dallas and stinks.

Speaker 1 And meanwhile, the one time he was able to put together three decent hours in a row cost us the number of picks. I like Will Campbell.

Speaker 1 I'm happy for him, but this Abdul Carter thing and the Giants having a real kind of frightening pass rush, I don't know what it means, but it means something.

Speaker 1 And it means they are at very least if you're if you don't have your shit together offensively and maybe you're your left tackle's out, you can't block to begin with. It's not a team I want to see.

Speaker 1 So have you been following the Carter hype chain? Cause I'm buying. Oh, 100%.

Speaker 1 I mean, this,

Speaker 1 you know, this could be one of the best fronts in football. Dexter Lawrence is probably the best defensive tackle or one of the best defensive tackles in the season.
It's definitely one of the best.

Speaker 1 I thought you, when you started that sentence, I thought you were going to be one of the best fronts of the decade.

Speaker 1 No, I'm not going that hard. But yeah, I think this is the type of team.
There's a couple of teams that are doing this right now. I feel like the Jets are kind of trying to do this too.

Speaker 1 It's like emulating the Eagles. Like the Eagles are the prototype.
They're the blueprint. You know, if we have a really good defense with a ton of studs up front,

Speaker 1 we can, you know, that can create things for the back end. And then we can, on offense, we can run the ball and play a ball control offense and, you know, all that stuff.

Speaker 1 And I think there's teams that are trying to kind of emulate that. This is a very poor man's version of it, I think, for the Giants.

Speaker 1 But, you know, I heard on the broadcast the other day that Jackson Dart models his game after Jalen Hurts.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, I can kind of see what he's talking about in the sense that he's really good, throwing deep. He can hit those big plays.
He can run around. He can be a part of the run game.

Speaker 1 They had some design runs for him.

Speaker 1 And Dayball is a guy that comes from coaching, you know, Josh Allen. So I think he's open to utilizing his quarterback in the run game.
Again, this is a very poor man's version of it.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I wasn't like the hugest Jackson Dart fan, but I do.

Speaker 1 One of my things I actually was going to bring is that I'm buying that the Giants are going to be kind of fun this year.

Speaker 1 I don't know if they're going to be good, but they're going to be worth watching. That defense is going to be really,

Speaker 1 you know, you know where they got fucked. Where's that?

Speaker 1 They should have an awesome schedule, right? They sucked last year.

Speaker 1 They're playing the AFC West and the NFC North. Those are the two you don't want.
Their fourth place schedule, they're playing the Patriots, Vegas, and the Niners.

Speaker 1 Like, all of those teams might be good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we were trying to figure out when

Speaker 1 the best spot to bench Russell Wilson and bring Jackson Darn in this season is going to be. And it's kind of tough because you got to go like midseason.
I mean, I guess maybe at Bears week.

Speaker 1 You can't do yeah, you can't do week five. That's at New Orleans because then after that, they get Philly, Denver, Philly, San Francisco.
I mean, that's where in Philly on the road.

Speaker 1 By the way, we, I forgot when we were talking best defenses, I forgot to mention Philly.

Speaker 1 I'd like to apologize to the defending Champion Eagles and their fans. And I forgot to mention the Broncos because that's the other team that I think could have a top three defense.
But

Speaker 1 in the Giants' case, at the very least, it's a team that if they're up 13, 10 in the third quarter and they could just be like, oh, you have to throw the ball now.

Speaker 1 And they're just unleashing everybody.

Speaker 1 We've seen teams that have awesome pass rushes. It doesn't matter when you're down 20 to 3.
Right. It's not, who cares?

Speaker 1 But I agree with you. I think they're going to be really fun on both sides of the ball, which is different than basically every incarnation of the Giants for the last 10 years.
I know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I give Heifitz crap all the time just because the Giants have been one of the worst teams in the NFL. Like they score some of the fewest points, fewest touchdowns.

Speaker 1 They've just been pretty much awful since we started working together at the Ringers. So hopefully this year that changes and he can have a little joy in his life from his team.

Speaker 1 Well, listen, the Carter thing was a miracle that he got the third. Seriously.
It's a mirror and that a team traded up to two and didn't take Carter. Right.
And I don't know.

Speaker 1 Maybe they were worried about the foot. And, but I'm just the Travis Hunter.
That's great. You can play both sides of the ball.
You're going to be super exciting. I get it.

Speaker 1 But I just, if you're just starting from scratch, what are the things you need to be an awesome team? Right. Quarterback one.

Speaker 1 And probably somebody like Carter would be the number two thing you would want. Yeah.
Just starting from scratch. So, um, well, you, I went there, but then you pivoted it back to Jackson Dart.

Speaker 1 So I think I get to go again. Yeah.
Okay. Um,

Speaker 1 Josh Simmons, Case having a left tackle. Ooh, good one.

Speaker 1 I've been reading a lot about this. So they lost Tooney because everyone's like, well, they have a left tackle.
Well, you're still, you still lost Tooney.

Speaker 1 So you can't say your offensive line is going to be dramatically better, but they will have a left tackle. They get this guy.

Speaker 1 You're one of the focal points of our draft pod. Somebody that would have been in the top 10 to 12 range if he doesn't get hurt, gets hurt, falls into the, you know, end of the first round.

Speaker 1 All the smart draft people were like, oh, shit, that might be a good pick if that guy can play next year. And guess what? He can play.

Speaker 1 Are you buying that combined with

Speaker 1 Rashi Rice back,

Speaker 1 a healthy Pacheco?

Speaker 1 Yep. We get Hollywood Brown back.
Are you buying the Mahomes Assense as a fantasy guy or no?

Speaker 1 I think so. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Speaker 1 Obviously, the problem is I'm a little nervous because they have such a a good defense that they're just going to play the type of football that they've been playing the last couple of years, which is where, you know, they dominate defensively and they don't, you know, and they haven't been as explosive as they were early on in Mahomes' career.

Speaker 1 In fact, if you look at Mahomes' numbers on deep passing last year, they were pretty horrific relative to what you'd expect from him.

Speaker 1 Awful.

Speaker 1 And so, and then obviously, Travis Kelsey, kind of a shell of what he used to be, but that's, I mean, he's still a good player. He's still going to create matchup problems on the inside.

Speaker 1 I'm cautiously buying what the Chiefs are doing. They've upgraded their offensive skill player group.

Speaker 1 I was a Jalen Royals fan. I think he could give them something while Rashid Rice is suspended.

Speaker 1 I think Xavier Worthy, he showed last year that he can kind of play that Rashid Rice role as well in terms of getting him opportunities to run after catch, crossing routes.

Speaker 1 You can't catch up to him on crossing routes. He will just run away from you.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I thought he showed some things. I don't think he's like a complete receiver.
He's not going to win in contested catch situations or anything like that.

Speaker 1 But, you know,

Speaker 1 then they'll get Rashi Rice back at some point, either week four or week six, probably. And he's looking like he's been pretty healthy.
So, you know, their offensive skill group will be a lot better.

Speaker 1 Pacheco is going to give them a little bit of explosiveness on the ground. They got Elijah Mitchell and Brashard Smith this year in free agency.

Speaker 1 The problem last year, they had like one of the slowest run games I've ever seen. You know, they're trotting cream hunt out there as like one of their main guys.

Speaker 1 And he, you know, he doesn't have any explosiveness left. He's a good tackle breaker, but not scaring anybody.
So they have a little more explosiveness

Speaker 1 in the ground game. And then, like you said, the Josh Simmons thing, I actually circled.
I mocked Josh Simmons to the Chiefs, and of course, it happened.

Speaker 1 You know, it's like one of those things where it's like just the perfect situation for them. It sounds like he's healthy.
His tape was outstanding.

Speaker 1 He didn't face a ton of really high-level competition early in the season, but I mean, he just looked like the best pass-protecting left tackle in college football at that time.

Speaker 1 Like, he was just, it looked easy for him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, you know, getting a left tackle at that spot, pretty incredible. So if he can stay healthy, that's obviously a huge, huge boost for them.

Speaker 1 So first three weeks, they're playing the Chargers in San Paulo. God only knows what that field's going to be.

Speaker 1 Eagles week two at home. And then at Giants, week three,

Speaker 1 and then Ravens week four. Dang.
So no Rashid Rice those first four weeks. And I could see the same like, ah, Chiefs offense.
And then by midseason,

Speaker 1 they'll be going. You know, I did that.

Speaker 1 You already knew that I had Allen as the top quarterback. And, of course, a lot of people were upset about that, Mahomes fans and Chiefs fans.

Speaker 1 He was sixth in MVP last year. Sixth.
He didn't even throw for 4,000 yards. And then he didn't win the Super Bowl.
And it's not like he was like amazing in the playoff games.

Speaker 1 I don't feel bad about it. I think Josh Allen, right now, in this moment, week to week,

Speaker 1 from a durability standpoint and just everything you want is still the best guy. If I had to bet my life on a guy for one game, I would still bet on Mahomes, but that's not the exercise.

Speaker 1 It's like, who would you rather have for an entire season?

Speaker 1 And I just think Josh is the best guy for that question. I don't feel bad about it.
I know you probably disagree. I mean, I think when you were talking, I was in my head thinking, if I...

Speaker 1 If my life depends on one guy executing a drive in the fourth quarter, I'm going with Mahomes. So maybe that's why you go with that.

Speaker 1 But if you're explicitly saying like the full season, like big picture, complete package, I can understand it. But I still probably go with Mahomes.

Speaker 1 It's more of just like a lore

Speaker 1 and confidence in him getting it done in the crunch time type of thing than anything. Than Allen.
I went back and I watched the fourth quarter of the Chiefs Bills game.

Speaker 1 And I think I blocked the Kincaid play out of my mind. I forgot like how amazing Allen was on that play to get that pass off.

Speaker 1 And then if Kincaid catches it,

Speaker 1 it becomes this legendary Josh Allen comes through. The Bills, like you just think,

Speaker 1 that's why I think it's way closer. It's a good argument.
It's what,

Speaker 1 you know, way closer than people think. What do you have for the next hype thing? Well, I'm surprised you haven't said this.

Speaker 1 So maybe I'm stealing it from you, but Trayvion Henderson as the new Jameer Gibbs or insert any super exciting, explosive electric running back into that sentence.

Speaker 1 Travion Henderson like buzz.

Speaker 1 To be fair, I was hoping and praying you would bring it up i was saving i thought if it came from me it wouldn't be as genuine

Speaker 1 i i am buying this so hard i'm buying it 100 um

Speaker 1 you know obviously it's very early but the fact that he took his first nfl touch 100 yards for a touchdown is like you kind of can't ignore that the the thing that i loved about him um you know going back to the draft i actually had him I have him and Omar in Hampton right next to each other, but I had Henderson over Hampton just slightly because of some of the stuff he can do in the passing game and just the pure juice that he brings.

Speaker 1 He's just so explosive. And the pass blocking, which was like,

Speaker 1 they've never had a guy who had speed like this, but could also pass block. Yeah.
And, you know, add in everything you heard about him at Ohio State was just like, he is the alpha. He's the best guy.

Speaker 1 Everybody absolutely loves this guy so much

Speaker 1 in terms of just like the character and everything. So I am so excited about what he can bring to this offense.
Obviously, explosive element.

Speaker 1 You heard about, I think today, he had some 70-yard touchdown on a second play of the screen. Yeah, the second, don't like, I didn't follow that.
Yeah, he's, he's breaking plays left and right.

Speaker 1 It's just, it begets in the open. He's just gone.
I think it's like

Speaker 1 simultaneously, you can't get, you can't buy in too much to the running back hype when it comes to the preseason because they're not hitting.

Speaker 1 Sorry, you know, it comes to like training camp and everything because they're not hitting. They're not tackling as much.

Speaker 1 But with him, it's passing game. and what they can do in him with him in the passing game vertical routes.

Speaker 1 Like I've seen multiple highlights of him running down the sideline, whether it's wheel routes or vertical routes.

Speaker 1 Um, I just think he's a really dynamic, big play creator, and it's going to give the Patriots the type of juice that they really do need on their offense.

Speaker 1 Like, like, who else gives them juice right now? I mean, Seville Williams is the other chance, and then digs if he comes back, but they have way more speed than they had last year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and so, and I think just in the NFL, this in this era, you have to have explosive playmakers, um, you know, especially in an era when teams are trying so hard to limit the big play, like this is the type of guy who can create big plays, who can, you know, in theory, get teams to kind of like load the box a little bit more because you start to threaten in the run game.

Speaker 1 I still think that they're going to use Ramondre Stevenson quite a bit, but Trayvon Henderson as a complimentary, you know, the Jameer Gibbs, David Montgomery type of thing, I think he has some real potential.

Speaker 1 And I am like unabashedly all in on this hype right now.

Speaker 1 I'm loving it. They've had no explosiveness, much like the Chiefs last year, where

Speaker 1 if you don't have a couple guys in the field who can scare you a little bit, so this Henderson thing, all if you just, if somebody stole my phone and looked at my text, they're basically all about Roman Anthony, Trayvion Henderson,

Speaker 1 and whether Jason Tatum can come back by the all-star break. But

Speaker 1 so you mentioned Gibbs.

Speaker 1 And it's, first of all, Henderson, I think, is still like 15 to 1 to be offensive rookie of the year on FanDuel.

Speaker 1 Something like that. Maybe it's gone down a little bit from because the hype has started.
But you mentioned Gibbs, and it's like, man, it would be amazing if he could be Jameer Gibbs.

Speaker 1 What Jameer, he's only been in the league two years, but they took him 12th. And it was like, this is a weapon.
This is this toy.

Speaker 1 Here are Gibbs's stats. His first year, 182 rushes for 945 yards and 10 touchdowns rushing.
Then catching, he was 52 for 316.

Speaker 1 His longest catch and run was 20 yards. Oh, that's surprising.
If Henderson doesn't,

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, 24 yards.

Speaker 1 If Henderson doesn't beat that,

Speaker 1 I'm going to be shocked.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think he can get, first of all, if he plays 17 games, if he stays on the field, which I think he can, because he's one of those like short, all-muscle, like he, I think he can cuss somebody on Washington last week.

Speaker 1 The guy put his head down, and Henderson like

Speaker 1 bulldozed him, he trucked him. But it's like, could he get 50 to 60 yards a week rushing, but then in the passing game, be like a 60 catch,

Speaker 1 but maybe like a 500 to 550 guy? Because he'll break two or three during the season. Right.

Speaker 1 And then if that's the case, not only are in the offensive rookie of the year combo, but you're in like, could you be an RB2 for somebody in fantasy, which I actually think he can. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And the thing with him is they can pass block with him. McDaniel

Speaker 1 had some stealth quotes about him that did get recognized by the True Pats fans where he was comparing him to Danny Woodhead, Shane Vereen, James White, some of these third-down backs.

Speaker 1 And he was just like, he just has way more juice than, and I love those guys, but he has way more juice than those guys had and can block. So they've never really had anybody like this.

Speaker 1 But this is for what Bink Daniels does.

Speaker 1 This is the kind of guy he loves. We've just never had a guy this talented in that spot.
So I don't think you can do enough. Not only am I buying the hype, I'll buy everyone else's hype.

Speaker 1 I'm just, if there's an island, I'm buying condos on on it. I'm ready to go.
I am all in. And honestly, it's a miracle that he fell to 38.

Speaker 1 It's a miracle because Cleveland had 36 and took his teammate who's already gotten into trouble off the field.

Speaker 1 But in the moment, people were like, whoa, they took, it was honestly like a Nick Chubbs, Sony Michelle situation where it's like, ooh, you took the wrong guy from the college.

Speaker 1 So it's to get that guy at 38 is a miracle. I can't believe it.
There was a lot of buzz that he was going to be a first rounder coming into the draft.

Speaker 1 I I think there was, you know, people taking the over on running backs in the first round,

Speaker 1 Genty and whoever else it might have been, Travian or whoever,

Speaker 1 and Hampton. And,

Speaker 1 you know, I think it's really just because he wasn't necessarily a quote-unquote full-time running back in college. Like, maybe that was the difference that he felt a little bit.

Speaker 1 But I guess my question is, why couldn't he be? Or maybe he could be like a,

Speaker 1 could he be like a 17 carries a game guy plus a pass catch guy? If he can block and he's just built like a fucking

Speaker 1 truck,

Speaker 1 like, why couldn't he play? We have short running backs. I mean, I don't know.
He, I think he could. I think the worry is he was banged up several times and couldn't wear and tear thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay, I get it. Um, but yeah, I mean, overall, you know,

Speaker 1 where do running backs really differentiate themselves? I think big plays, passing game stuff, obviously breaking tackles.

Speaker 1 I don't know if he's like a huge tackle breaker, but I think what he is is a, you know, he's he's no touches him guy. Right.
He's like, you know, the pursuit angle killer.

Speaker 1 He, he, he gets past pursuit angles because he's so explosive. And so

Speaker 1 I think, you know, he has potential to be a really valuable player, regardless of the position, just because of what he can do and how he protects the quarterback.

Speaker 1 You know, their first two picks were, the Patriots' first two picks were designed to help protect Drake May.

Speaker 1 Will Campbell and Trayvon Henderson, those get both, both those guys are going to protect Drake May. So I can see the logic.
And I think it was, you know, great job by the Patriots, obviously.

Speaker 1 Well, and then in the third round, they get a left guard. So they actually have the semblance of we can actually protect Drake May.

Speaker 1 Now they need Drake May to protect himself and not, you know, take on seven guys. Let's take a quick break and then we'll do the rest of the buy or sell guys.
This episode is brought to you by Rain X.

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Speaker 1 iPhone 11 or later required. All right, go ahead.
You're up. Buy or sell.
I am buying the Tetoroa McMillan hype that we're seeing in the preseason here. I'm surprised.

Speaker 1 I'm selling.

Speaker 1 I'll sell mine to you. Okay.
Okay. I'll buy it.
I'm scooping up as many shares as I can.

Speaker 1 I think he is exactly what Bryce Young needs in terms of a true number one X receiver, a guy that can win in the short, middle, and deep areas, big body.

Speaker 1 And the important part is, I think he does what he does for the rest of the skill group for the Panthers. It's like a cascading effect where he's the true number one.

Speaker 1 You got Adam Thielen, who is a Steely veteran. He could be the number two.
He's not, at this point in his career, he's not going to be a good number one.

Speaker 1 Xavier Liguet, who they drafted in the first round, can be like an explosive after-the-catch playmaker, kind of design, manufacture some touches for him.

Speaker 1 He's not going to be a true number one type guy. And then they have a couple of other players.
Jalen Coker is getting some hype.

Speaker 1 And it kind of just rounds out that receiver group.

Speaker 1 And I think Bryce Young can really, you know, continue what he did in the second half of last year, which was, I mean, one of the big storylines obviously kind of flew into the radar because the Panthers were so bad.

Speaker 1 But Bryce Young being really good in the second half of the year

Speaker 1 obviously could be a type of thing where it saves the Panthers franchise for the next like five years.

Speaker 1 Really good? How about, can we just go with

Speaker 1 good?

Speaker 1 Sure. Pretty good.

Speaker 1 You mean Bryce Young or just Ted McMillan? Bryce Young. Like,

Speaker 1 I don't know, really good is.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I wouldn't put him in like the top 10 or anything like that. But he was

Speaker 1 horrific to start his career. He was not a bust.
And then it was like, ah, Bryce Young, pretty good. Yeah.
I don't know what to expect from him this year. Yeah.
Why you out? Why you out?

Speaker 1 Big receivers, I feel like take a little bit of a while, especially as rookies. And I just think they're counting on him too much.

Speaker 1 I just can't remember that many guys just coming in right away, built like him,

Speaker 1 who are just reliable, dominant, number one receivers for a team. Like even DK, when he came in, the other DK, DK Metcalf,

Speaker 1 who I think had, if I remember correctly, a good rookie season. But he also was on a team that had other good receivers and they could kind of ease him in.

Speaker 1 And so that would be the only thing I worry about with him.

Speaker 1 I have a receiver I was going to throw at you.

Speaker 1 As you know, one of my specialties is sniffing out the training camp quotes about people on a team when

Speaker 1 the quotes hit a certain level where you're like, oh, this feels real. And you can like Jaden Daniels was a good one last year.

Speaker 1 If you read anything about Jaden Daniels in Washington last year, every story, the way teammates talked about him, the way coaches talked about him, the media at the practices, it was like, shit, something's happening here.

Speaker 1 I didn't have the balls to pick them to make the playoffs, but it was like, clearly, something special is happening with them. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So, there's a first-round pick that's not Abdul Carter

Speaker 1 that there's this is happening for, and it's under the radar. I'll be interested to see if you can guess it.
I'll give you one guess.

Speaker 1 First-round pick. It's somebody you liked who went a tiny bit later than he was supposed to go.
And it's a receiver?

Speaker 1 Oh, see, now I'm giving you hints. If I tell you that, you'll know who the answer is.

Speaker 1 I was going to say a mecha Buka. That's the answer.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Just Google people listening after you finish this, Google Emeka Buka hype

Speaker 1 and read all the stories. In fact, there's one right here from Buccaneerswire.
Hype continues to rise for Buccaneers top pick, but everyone's just like, this guy's awesome.

Speaker 1 And it's very similar to the Brian Thomas Jr. last year where from the moment he got to the Jaguars, people are like, this guy's awesome.
Yep. And the teammates are like, that guy's fucking awesome.

Speaker 1 We did this drill today and he toasted nine people and he's just

Speaker 1 so he might just be really good, which to me, like, I know, I know Wurfs is out for a few weeks, but if Godwin can actually come back and be where he was before he got hurt, and you have Mike Evans there still, but then you have this other guy who could be this year's BTJ for all we know.

Speaker 1 Does that change how you think about the Bucs at all?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I think it definitely gives them the boost that they need with, you know, Worfs being out and them losing Liam Cohen.

Speaker 1 I think there's just question marks over what this offense is going to be like with those types of losses.

Speaker 1 But everything that you've heard about Ameka Igbuka so far, like you said, has just been, they're not even asking people about him. And like, you got players talking about him like he's so, so great.

Speaker 1 That's when you know. This is like, this happened with your guy, Russell Wilson, rookie year.

Speaker 1 This is when I picked Seattle to make the Super Bowl because all the quotes were like, Russell Wilson, holy shit. Yep.
This is unbelievable.

Speaker 1 I can't believe what he's doing and it feels like that's the case with ibuka well and it reminds me it's funny like another homer pick for me it reminds me a lot of doug baldwin's first training camp where doug baldwin he was really under the radar undrafted free agent and so obviously it's a little bit different because ibuka was a first rounder but

Speaker 1 like immediately upon getting to training camp everyone watching because in those days you still can you can just go watch the hawks training camps and everyone knew immediately like this guy's making the team he's really good he's probably the best receiver because he was just toasting people every day, like a big play or two every day.

Speaker 1 I think that's what's happening with Abuka. I mean, and it makes sense.
He's like really experienced, great hands, really good route runner, really good blocker, high character.

Speaker 1 He just has a really high floor. And that was kind of what I had ranked 13th overall in the draft, I think.
And people were kind of not. He went what, like six, seven spots lower than that? Eight?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Where do you go? In the 20s?

Speaker 1 I don't remember off the top of my head exactly. Because I remember he dropped because nobody needed a receiver for like six, seven picks was the reason.

Speaker 1 And it was, I mean, I remember my reaction to the pick was like, oh, that's kind of weird, actually. Like, I didn't expect the Buccaneers.
They just, I think, re-signed Chris Godwin to a big contract.

Speaker 1 Jalen McMillan last year was pretty good in the second half. The GM, the GM basically said, like, this guy was the best guy on our board.

Speaker 1 Like, we didn't even really need a receiver, but we couldn't not take him. So we took him.
He was a 19th pick.

Speaker 1 But, you know, I think there was concerns that he did. Number one, he's not like the most explosive guy.
So I think people have sort of a bias against first-round receivers should be super

Speaker 1 doing that. It's fucking stupid.
But he catches everything. You know, he's a big body guy, really reliable.
You know, I think Ohio State's all-time leading receiver.

Speaker 1 And that's like on teams with Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson. Like, obviously, he never led his team in receiving, but he was just so reliable year in and year out.

Speaker 1 And he kind of fell off a little bit because he had some injuries that his production suffered a little bit. He's going to be on all my fantasy teams.
I'm still telling him. I love him.

Speaker 1 What do you have as your next one?

Speaker 1 I'm going with, I'm selling the Jets Justin Fields experiment, speaking of Ohio State. Wow.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I think for fantasy, it's going to be good. So we have to delineate there because I think for fantasy, he's really exciting.
He's getting pushed up right now. I think I saw in one rank he was QB 11.

Speaker 1 So he's getting pushed up the ranks.

Speaker 1 Well, because you figure if he's 10 for 70 rushing every week. I mean, yeah, he's going to run the hell out of the ball.
Their offensive line is pretty good, or it could be really good.

Speaker 1 But I mean, to me, Fields is one of those, he's a classic story of highly drafted quarterback goes to a bad team. You get stuck with multiple offensive coordinators throughout your first few years.

Speaker 1 You get traded to, you know, and kind of, it's just like it just never really happens. And I think with him, I, you know, you remember I was really high on him.

Speaker 1 I thought he was going to be a really good pro, but he just doesn't, he's, he just doesn't work quickly enough in the pocket. And I don't know if he can necessarily fix that.

Speaker 1 I think there will be good games here and there, but overall, I mean, if you look at some of the stats from last year when he was on the Steelers, 39% success rate, which was 36th out of 39 quarterbacks that qualified.

Speaker 1 12% sack rate, which was dead last. 45% pressure rate, which was dead last among those 39 quarterbacks.
He just takes so many sacks.

Speaker 1 He doesn't get rid of the ball quick enough.

Speaker 1 I feel like when you're down 10 with him in the fourth quarter, the game's over. That's what I was going to say next.

Speaker 1 Basically, like they have to have the game script that's kind of just perfect for what he does. And so, um,

Speaker 1 as much as if you're up 13 to 6 with 10 minutes left, it's great. Run, run, run, play action, then you're okay with him.

Speaker 1 So, I'm in on the fantasy portion of it, but and I don't know if anyone's really that excited, but this last preseason game, like he looked pretty, there were some exciting plays, and he ran in for a touchdown.

Speaker 1 So I'm trying not to let myself get too excited about the Justin Fields thing because I've bought into the field stuff earlier in his career, and I don't want to fall for it again.

Speaker 1 I've test drove the Jets over,

Speaker 1 you know, because I had a few. Where they're at right now?

Speaker 1 It's low. I think it's five and a half.

Speaker 1 Their schedule's pretty hard,

Speaker 1 especially if the Dolphins end up being good, which I don't think they will be. But, you know, I think the the Pats are going to be better and the Bills are in there.

Speaker 1 But I can't get there. I think it'll be, they'll have two upsets during this season

Speaker 1 where they run the ball really well. They have a lead.
They don't have a turnover. And they,

Speaker 1 you know, I could see them being a tease buster, but I'm with Ewon Fields. I just thought it was too hard for him

Speaker 1 when you actually need your quarterback to move the ball down the field and throw the ball. I just don't think he can do it.
Also, they don't have any receivers after Garrett Wilson.

Speaker 1 I mean, their number two right now is, I think, Josh Reynolds.

Speaker 1 You know, and then they have a rookie tight end. You can't, you can't expect a rookie tight end to elevate an offense.
It rarely happens. I mean, Brock Bowers is a special, special player.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I think it's going to happen with Tyler Warren a little bit on the Colts. Ooh, he has a massive throw in there on the hype list.
Do that. Let's do that.

Speaker 1 I just think he should have been the first tight end. I like that he didn't go first because now he's got the chip on the shoulder that he didn't go first.
Yeah, yeah. They actually really need him.

Speaker 1 They have two quarterbacks that I don't trust with wide receivers at all and they're probably going to be throwing them the ball anyway. So I just, he's jumping out to me as,

Speaker 1 you know, Bowers is above everybody and then Kittle.

Speaker 1 But then if you go into that next tier,

Speaker 1 I like, am I going to pay $15 for whoever and I can try to get this guy instead at four or five? Like, I'm just going to do that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How surprised are you going to be if he's the top receiver on that team this year? He might be.

Speaker 1 Pittman broke his back last year, and he's like... Yeah, I don't trust him.
It's hard to trust him.

Speaker 1 Josh Downs, I think, is a really good player, but who knows what's going on with this quarterback situation?

Speaker 1 I think that they're going to scheme up like three to four plays a game for Tyler Orman, and that's like his floor, you know, in the sense where you're doing screens, RPOs,

Speaker 1 maybe even get him in the backfield a little bit. He did that a ton actually at Penn State.
I don't know if they'll do that in the NFL when you have Jonathan Taylor back there too, but

Speaker 1 get creative with

Speaker 1 what he can bring as a run-after catch guy. And he's kind of in that.
I don't think he's the level of

Speaker 1 player that George Kittle is clearly at this point in his career, but he brings the run-after catch ability.

Speaker 1 I think that's reminiscent of Kittle, where he's just trucking dudes, jumping over them, stiff arming them, things like that.

Speaker 1 So he did him in the draft.

Speaker 1 He was too high for the Pats to take it for, but if they had traded back a couple spots and taken him, I wouldn't have been furious about it. I couldn't believe he fell to 14.

Speaker 1 I just, there's no way he was not one of the best 13 guys in the draft. So we'll see.
And the Leveland, I don't know. That seemed to be more of a

Speaker 1 higher ceiling pick, but Warren seems really, really good to me. What was that you or me? Who's up? You? That was you.
Oh, you're up.

Speaker 1 Let's see. I think my big one for last.
I feel very torn on this. So

Speaker 1 I'm just going to send it. I'm buying the Jags revival

Speaker 1 with Liam Cohen. Liam Cohen.
Cohen. Oh, my God.
How can you do this?

Speaker 1 There's absolutely no evidence to support the fact that they'll be bad again, right?

Speaker 1 No. I mean, obviously, this goes against my better judgment.
We do this every year, I feel like.

Speaker 1 But I don't know. The Travis Hunter being able to play on both sides of the ball, I think that will make an impact.

Speaker 1 I don't know if he's going to be, you know, a massive, massive impact year one on both sides of the ball. I think the Liam Cohen thing is really what I'm excited about the most, though.

Speaker 1 Like getting a coherent offense, you know, getting Trevor Lawrence kind of into his groove, hopefully a little bit where he's not, you know, making these just ill-advised throws and doing the kinds of things that he's done the last couple of years.

Speaker 1 We're doing so well.

Speaker 1 The other thing here that I will say, and I think this does matter, is they have the sixth easiest schedule for Warren Sharp.

Speaker 1 So they're in a bad division with a good play calling, new head coach, get that bump. Brian Thomas Jr., explosive playmaker.
Travis Hunter, another explosive playmaker

Speaker 1 god why am i doing this i don't know why i'm doing this but i am

Speaker 1 you should know since you had a shitty offensive line last year on your favorite team the seattle seahawks hey they won 10 games yeah but you had a way better all-around team like this their line's going to be the combo of the offensive line and lawrence why why am i going to feel good about that not to mention do you the the travis at tn and uh

Speaker 1 who's the other dude

Speaker 1 bigsby like they still haven't figured that out. People are trying to get us to get the Travis comeback year.
No thanks. Had him last year for like 30 bucks.

Speaker 1 The only case for them, because I did look at this,

Speaker 1 because it's like,

Speaker 1 and I'm going to spend the next week trying to figure out who I settle on here for the out of nowhere team.

Speaker 1 Last year I had Pittsburgh and I nailed it. Everyone was off Pittsburgh.
Everyone had them third place and, you know, 500 team.

Speaker 1 And I was trying to figure out who is the out of nowhere playoff team because we have all the ones people always talk about.

Speaker 1 Could Jacksonville be the team? The case would be the first three weeks where they're home for the Panthers. They're at Cincinnati, who always starts out slow.

Speaker 1 And then, like, an upset against Houston. And now they're playing at San Francisco in week four.
McCaffrey's already hurt. And now they're, now it's like, the Jack Bars are 4-0.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Travis Hunter, what a trade. And so I was trying to play it out of my head and I just, I can't get there.

Speaker 1 But they have their third place schedule, which means they get the Jets, Bengals, and Panthers, which I don't mind, but they do have to play the AFC West and then the NFC West.

Speaker 1 We'll see if they're any good. But

Speaker 1 I can't quite get there with Laurence. Lawrence, to me, is like, you're going to have to shock me and prove that you're actually good again.
But I don't know. I respect the hype.
So I'm buying it.

Speaker 1 You're selling it.

Speaker 1 Can we just do McCaffrey quick? Because it's a a blind sell for me. People are trying to hype me back.
Don't be surprised if he's the number one fantasy guy again. Guess what?

Speaker 1 I'm going to be surprised. The guys

Speaker 1 cannot stay in the field. He's older.
And I just don't see it. And I think it's the worst kind of fantasy guy to have because you're spending.

Speaker 1 You're not spending $60 anymore, but you're still in the 40s. And maybe you're even in a bidding war with your drunk buddy.
And now I'm up to 49 and I really want him.

Speaker 1 And now, oh, fuck, now I'm paying 50.

Speaker 1 and then two weeks in it's like I'm having I have a my Achilles starting to feel tight I'm now and I got the red flag oh no McCaffrey has the red flag what happened oh tendinitis oh no he's gonna put no he's not playing yeah oh he's out whoa he's gonna go to see a specialist I'm out I'm not doing it no thank you He's going to Germany to do some stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm out. I'm out.
We've all been there with him and no thank you anymore. I think the only argument, the counter to that is when when he's on the field, he has been the best.
You feel great.

Speaker 1 He's the best fantasy player of this generation, right?

Speaker 1 But this

Speaker 1 begs the question, is it better to not have that at all in your life or to have tasted it and then it gets pulled away when they get red flagged?

Speaker 1 You're like, oh, man, I had those three weeks with McCaffrey and it was so great. I'd almost rather not know what it feels like.

Speaker 1 I totally understand what you're saying, though. I think it's tough.
Ultimately, you don't want to, you're not trying to get seventh place in your league. You're trying to get first place.

Speaker 1 And so this was your, this was your dev your A-chan

Speaker 1 last year. This was your, this was your theory on this.
Go for the gusto. Yeah.
And, but I will say,

Speaker 1 um,

Speaker 1 McCaffrey and Shanahan lied to our faces last year about like what he was going to be, and which obviously, whatever, that's their prerogative.

Speaker 1 But from a fantasy point of view, it's easier to do this when coaches are and players are honest about kind of like where they are so i don't trust that team and then the hard the worst part and this is something i experienced is trying to figure out the handcuff situation to mccaffrey like with a lot of players it's like oh if i if i get this guy i'll just grab his backup and then that way i'm insured against this injury or whatever i could still get this team's run game but now you're getting seven dollars on his backup yeah but the end the 49ers are the most cursed team i've ever seen in my life when it comes to running back injuries every one of their running backs just constantly gets gets hurt.

Speaker 1 So you're like playing whack-a-mole, trying to figure out who to play week in and week out. Is it Isaac Garendo? Is it Jordan James? Is it, you know, Jeff Wilson, who I think they just re-signed?

Speaker 1 It's like, I just, and then who knows what Shanahan's, who's going to be in Shanahan's doghouse this week.

Speaker 1 So I think it's, it's, you know, obviously the upside of hitting on McCaffrey and getting the, you know, he's literally like an RB1 and a wide receiver two or three in one spot in your roster, which is immensely valuable.

Speaker 1 So the upside is worth, I think, worth betting on, but it's going to be a miserable experience for you. You're going to probably, you know, every time a little red cross is next to his name

Speaker 1 on the app, it's just going to stress you out. So it just depends on how much risk you want to take on.
The problem is there's no value for it because you're overpaying. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow, being worried about the red flag, which is the worst place to be in fantasy.

Speaker 1 Let's do a couple quick ones. But before we do that, I just want to say Shadur off the table.
Okay.

Speaker 1 We're not talking about it or what?

Speaker 1 Who knows? I'm rooting for it. It would be fun if the Browns had a good QB, but people going nuts about week one preseason.
Like, it's fine just to not have an opinion sometimes.

Speaker 1 It's like, that's cool. He wasn't a disaster.
Right. Okay.
It doesn't mean anything.

Speaker 1 You know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I hope it happens for him. I'm in the camp of I thought he should have gone in the first two rounds.

Speaker 1 It's hard for me to believe he's not a starter. It's hard for me to believe New Orleans couldn't have used him.
But

Speaker 1 I'm not going to be like, we'll see what he did in week one preseason. Like, just stop.
Yeah. Also, it's funny because the only reason he started that game is several

Speaker 1 times got hurt. It was just like, man.
So what's your next one?

Speaker 1 I actually just want to get your take on this. I'm selling the Aaron Rodgers Steelers thing, but I want to know what you think about it.

Speaker 1 Oh, not only have I sold it,

Speaker 1 I knocked down the house. I not only did I sell the house, I knocked it down for the new owner.

Speaker 1 I couldn't be more out. Sheo made the key point.
Brady is the only one over 42 who even played 10 games. I thought Rodgers sucked last year.
I don't think he wants to get hit anymore.

Speaker 1 I don't love their offensive line. I don't think the team, I'm very nervous about that team in general.

Speaker 1 And I think it would be shocking if he was good in the Steelers with all the evidence we have following football for him for what we saw last year to him all of a sudden being good for the Steelers and them going 12 and 5.

Speaker 1 Like, honestly, what are the odds in that? Like 7 to 1, 8 to 1?

Speaker 1 He's just going to be good. He's going to let it hit again.
Last year was an aberration.

Speaker 1 There are, I will say, there's like, and I'm completely with you on this, but there, there are, I've seen stories and I've listened and I've heard a few on podcasts like Aaron Rodgers kind of feels like a different guy this year.

Speaker 1 You know, he's come in there and like all his teammates love him, all this stuff. And I'm just like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 It's over.

Speaker 1 He's 42. It's over.
Even if you lose like a split second of your reaction time on stuff,

Speaker 1 combined with that, the lower half of his body had this traumatic injury that it would be one thing if it was 27, but, you know, he's got a repaired Achilles. He's 42.

Speaker 1 He's not the biggest guy in the world. Him and DK Metcalf is a very funny combo, too, like from a schematic and stylistic.
But him and Tomlin. What about the first time he says something stupid?

Speaker 1 Or Arthur Smith? Yeah, I just think there's so many ways to go wrong. All right, I'll give you my last one.
All right.

Speaker 1 I've already talked about them multiple times on the pod.

Speaker 1 To my horror, I was listening to the Ringer Gambling Show,

Speaker 1 the Excellent East Coast Bias Show, as they did the AFC West. And all three of them got excited about this team.
And it feels like there's too many people on the bandwagon.

Speaker 1 I'm getting nervous, but the Broncos were my favorite team.

Speaker 1 I actually think they're underrated. I think they are a live chance for them to

Speaker 1 win the AFC West.

Speaker 1 I just think they're going to be really good. I think they're an actual contender.
I really think that.

Speaker 1 And now it feels like people are coming on the bandwagon because nobody can figure out another

Speaker 1 team that's like this year is basically Lions of like, oh, this team was good last year. Now they're going to be this.
And they're the most obvious candidate. Then Slater goes down for the Chargers.

Speaker 1 And you're like, whoa that there's another reason the broncos are gonna be better than chargers and now i'm worried it looks too obvious so i'm not selling the hype right i just wish that i wish i could calm down the hype i wish i could create like a fake news story to get people off the scent like hey bonyx might

Speaker 1 might uh might not be able to start the season mystery injury like i almost want to throw people off the scent I yeah, I've the contrarian in me, like the Broncos hype, that is like maybe the top one where where I'm just like the contrarian in me.

Speaker 1 For whatever reason, everybody.

Speaker 1 Yeah, 100%. Like everybody loves the Broncos.
And I have kind of a long-running bit of I'm anti-Sean Payton, but that's like fantasy-wise. Like he's actually a good, he's a good real-life coach.

Speaker 1 He just annoys me in fantasy because he, you know, platoons every position. And it's really hard to guess like whoever he's going to like that week.
But I don't know.

Speaker 1 To me, it's just, you know, we saw CJ Stroud have a huge slump in his second year as teams start to kind of figure out what your fastball is and some of the best things that you're doing.

Speaker 1 I don't think, you know, I'm not fading Knicks by any means, but I think there's a chance like he could be a little worse than he was as a rookie. And that wouldn't be super surprising.

Speaker 1 Their defense, obviously. Way hard to schedule.
Yeah, really hard schedule. Their defense, I mean, their defense is great, but with everything, you know, how healthy can they stay?

Speaker 1 Can they, can they continue to do what they were doing up front? And then, you know,

Speaker 1 I think defense is harder to predict year in and year out. Like it's less consistent year in and year out.
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 To me, I'm like, I don't have a real argument against the Broncos, but the contrarian in me, it's just like that, that's like the bells are going off. Like everybody loves the Broncos this year.

Speaker 1 And so that's just kind of my reaction to it.

Speaker 1 They check the most boxes I've seen for a leap team in a while, including week one, home Tennessee Titans, week two, at the Colts, who already have probably changed QBs. Right.

Speaker 1 Week three, at the Chargers, week four, home, Bengals Monday night.

Speaker 1 And then week five at Eagles,

Speaker 1 which could be a 4-0 against 4-0. Like, I'm already ready for it.

Speaker 1 I like it too much. I want it to calm down.
I need to, like,

Speaker 1 if this is like a relationship in college, I want them to be mean to me for a day. So I don't like them as much.
Right. Your spidey sense is tingling right now.
I think you're feeling the

Speaker 1 Zag. Too many checks.

Speaker 1 Too many check marks.

Speaker 1 And I was trying to think what another Zag team would be because we do this every year. And that's pretty much every figure that's going to be bad, that will be good, or the vice versa.
That

Speaker 1 there's always a team. There's always a team.
Like, it's going to be like the Giants.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying it's going to be the Giants, but that's what I really want to figure out: who is the team everyone thinks is going to be shitty?

Speaker 1 And it's going to, I'm telling you, they're going to make the playoffs. Last year was Washington.
Even the Patriots, I think people are expecting they're going to be pretty good.

Speaker 1 It's a team like the Panthers.

Speaker 1 No, because I think there's cases for Falcons. It's like Panthers, Jags, Giants, the Titans.

Speaker 1 The Titans is a great one. The Titans is the one.
Vegas, the Jets. It's those kind of teams.
One of them is going to make the playoffs. It's just how the league goes.
Not the Browns.

Speaker 1 Not the Browns. I've crossed off the Browns and the Saints all over the place.
Those are my two cross-off already. I think, you know what?

Speaker 1 I'm not like saying the Saints are going to win the division, but the Saints have been my surprisely, surprisingly competent team because just everyone, like for every reason, again, it's a contrarian thing where everyone says the Saints are going to suck.

Speaker 1 Everyone thinks the Saints are, it's like a fact, the Saints suck. And that's the way that we've talked about them this offseason.

Speaker 1 And for whatever reason, that just, you know, it like ignites my, my contrarian-ness.

Speaker 1 And I, and I just want, like, the Saints, for whatever reason, they always kind of figure out a way to be competitive, especially in that division.

Speaker 1 Um, the quarterback situation is obviously very concerning.

Speaker 1 But, you know, I don't know, maybe Kellen Moore goes in there and they kind of just run this funky offense that people don't know what to do with and they eke out some wins.

Speaker 1 Are we even sure Kellen Moore is good? No.

Speaker 1 Like to me, like the QB coach, the QB coach combo, which is the easiest way to figure all this stuff out. Right.
They've got to be one of the lowest.

Speaker 1 Even the Browns, because Stefanski is better than Kellen Moore. Yeah.
Even they might have a higher number. I'm not saying it makes any sense.

Speaker 1 It just, that's the team that I've been contrarian on because it just feels like everyone is stating as a fact that the Saints are awful. Well, there's one thing I have noticed.

Speaker 1 The people covering the team are talking about how it's way more professional this year.

Speaker 1 Like they are, we are going from Dennis Allen and whoever the guy was that Cam Jordan annihilated on the podcast. Did you see that? Sorry about the defensive line coach.

Speaker 1 It was the worst coach he's ever had. Oh my gosh, no, I didn't see that.
But anyway,

Speaker 1 their over is five and a half, and it's already plus 125.

Speaker 1 The last thing, and then we'll go because I already kept you a half hour longer than I thought we were going to go.

Speaker 1 I think Seattle is in the mix for, I didn't realize that they were going to be good. Because you think last year, they hit their draft a year ago, as you know.

Speaker 1 The reasons people are off the scent this year are basically like they downgraded at receiver

Speaker 1 and they changed QBs. You could argue Darnold's better than Geno Smith.
In fact, I'll make the argument right now. It's year two, McDonald.
They had another good draft.

Speaker 1 And they're in a division that I'm not sure anyone in the division is good because this Matthew Stafford, who

Speaker 1 Matthew Stafford wasn't that good for most of the season last year, and then got better as it went along, and then was really good in the playoff game.

Speaker 1 But for the entirety of the season, like we were wondering what was going on with him. The Niners, who knows? I don't like Arizona at all.

Speaker 1 And could Seattle just be like, oh, shit, I guess it's Seattle.

Speaker 1 Their odds are, they're plus 550 for the division. That's crazy.
Nobody should have odds like that in that division. I mean, they almost won the division last year.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I think logically and on paper, I would say they downgraded going from Geno Smith and DK Metcalf to Sam Darnold and Cooper. No question.

Speaker 1 However,

Speaker 1 the scheme, the change in scheme is like the big X factor for the Seahawks this year.

Speaker 1 It could be a force multiplier for them on offense because they're going from what was one of the pass heaviest offenses in the NFL last year in terms of expected pass rate to I'm sure they're going to run the hell out of the ball this year.

Speaker 1 Like that's why they brought Clint Kubiak in this wide zone offense. I think in theory, it fits Kenneth Walker really well.
It could help their offensive line

Speaker 1 start to get some continuity in terms of like,

Speaker 1 they drafted Gray's Abel, who's gotten rave reviews out of training camp and he looked good in this first preseason game.

Speaker 1 Looks like Abraham Lucas, their right tackle, is going to be right now. He's looking like he will be healthy and able to start.
Charles Cross

Speaker 1 can be a a good left tackle.

Speaker 1 I think there's some pieces there that they're working with that could emerge on the offensive line to make it a not bottom five unit, which is kind of what they've been the last few years.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I had you as a minus one before the season, but I might take the minus one off. Yeah.
Because the offensive line people seem to think, eh, it might be actually

Speaker 1 fairly competent. It's like a scheme thing.

Speaker 1 Can the scheme hide some of their warts that they had last year in terms of like, maybe this just works better where they're attacking, running the football, you know, all that stuff.

Speaker 1 And then defensively you know there's a p I'm trying hard not to like buy too much into the hype because this is another one that's gotten tons of press around where I live it's like the Seahawks could have a top five defense like a lot of people a lot of smart people who know what they're talking about are looking at this scheme with Mike McDonald and some of the defense some of the talent they've amassed on defense um it's a well yeah two big motherfuckers in the middle yeah that you know maybe five teams have two guys like that i mean leonard williams was one of the most unsung elite players, I think, last year on defense.

Speaker 1 And then Byron Murphy, they drafted last year in the first round. And I think he had a good rookie season, could have a really good

Speaker 1 second season.

Speaker 1 He got hurt and he played hurt.

Speaker 1 I was in the season?

Speaker 1 I think so. Yeah.
And he was one of my favorite players coming in.

Speaker 1 I like him.

Speaker 1 I think the Seattle defense and the Pats defense are very similar for me. in that I actually think the ceiling of each defense could be top five.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Especially because your secondary is really good. Yeah.
I mean, they have so much talent in their secondary. Yeah.
Devin Witherspoon, another draft pick from a couple of years ago.

Speaker 1 So I don't know. They have the pieces.
I think you could make an argument, certainly, this year. The other one I wanted to bring up was Torrey Horton.

Speaker 1 This is like too much of a deep cut, but their fifth round receiver is another one of those guys that's in the category of just making two or three big plays every day.

Speaker 1 You got to send me some of the quotes. Let me keep hearing everything.
Maybe I'll sleuth it tonight. I want to find out myself.

Speaker 1 Look up Torrey Horton, And look, I'm obviously in the Seahawks text thread, you know, streets where it's people really into the Seahawks.

Speaker 1 But I mean, I got so many messages and texts about Tori Horton when they drafted him. When the Seahawks drafted him, they're like, this guy is so much better than a fifth rounder.

Speaker 1 You're going to love this guy. He was my favorite player at Colorado State.
You know, I got a ton of people telling me that, like, you're going to love this guy.

Speaker 1 And then everything that we've seen since then is like, he's been really good at practice. He had a couple of big catches in this last game, in the preseason game.

Speaker 1 So I don't know. Again, this is like way too deep cut for probably the national side of things, but

Speaker 1 people are really excited about Torrey Horton here in Seahawks land. Pat's excitement, Seattle excitement.
We're back, Danny Kelly.

Speaker 1 Thanks for hyping it up with me. Good to see you.
And don't forget, Ringer of Fantasy. So when's the big we're doing our draft on August 25th?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's in a couple of weeks here. Let's see.
Yeah, that's we're less than two weeks. Yeah, August 25th.

Speaker 1 I'm going to be in LA soon. Yeah, I'll see you in LA.
All right. Thanks, Danny Kelly.
Thank you. This episode is brought to you by Frank's Red Hot.

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Speaker 1 Boston, New York, New York, Boston. All right, let's go.

Speaker 1 Also, I'd like to say, thank you to having me on and let's have some fun. Yeah, you do the intro for me.
I don't even do that. I wore my Celtic shirt.
We're a little wounded these days.

Speaker 1 Oh, it'll gig out the car.

Speaker 1 Well, you made this movie. You put like 17 slanderous Boston things in there.
And maybe 15. It wasn't that maybe.

Speaker 1 Nine? There's a Larry. Rick Fox took a Larry Bird shot.
He played with Larry Bird.

Speaker 1 Also like to say, quick story. You know, I've done several commercials for

Speaker 1 and one of these spots. Yeah.
It's Larry Bird.

Speaker 1 Which one? McDonald's? I do it with Sam and Magic, you know, and Charles. Oh, the bank ones.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
And so

Speaker 1 I was really scared. Larry Bird.
I mean, if you saw any of the movies from the 80s. She's got to have it.
John Savage. John Savage.
It's a two-minute scene. The gentifier.
He's wearing it.

Speaker 1 So I was really scared. I knocked on the door.
I said, who is it? I said, Spike. Can I come in? Come on in, Spike.
Sit down, sit down.

Speaker 1 And I said, because I mean, we have a commercial together. I know this, those, all those.
So he says, Spike, look,

Speaker 1 we're good.

Speaker 1 That means so much to me because I never, anything,

Speaker 1 I love Larry Bird. but the thing for me was that he was positioned in the press as being the great white hope.
Yeah, and Larry, that wasn't him. He just wanted to bust your ass.
Right.

Speaker 1 So he didn't know all this. I mean, I mean, he knew, but he wasn't all this

Speaker 1 method put up behind him. So that's what I was talking about.
We had nothing to do with Larry Bird.

Speaker 1 We tried to hit that in the Celtics documentary we did for HBO about he's positioned as this great white hope, but meanwhile, he's way more talented than that. And

Speaker 1 you want to know part of it at all? Yes. Look, I got number love for Larry.
I mean, he just wanted to bust your ass.

Speaker 1 And that's it.

Speaker 1 It wasn't his fault. He was put in that position.
Yeah. I remember like going to Old Garden with the

Speaker 1 Larry Bird was at the Boston Garden at 6 a.m. and took 10,000 shots.
You know, no, like, yeah. And like, we come out of the womb, but dunk it.
Right. No hard work, no expertise, you know.

Speaker 1 But anyway, how you doing? I want to talk basketball first and then go into movies.

Speaker 1 This is our year. Well, I haven't seen you.
The last time we did a pod was pre-COVID at our

Speaker 1 two studios ago.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you got a setup here. Yeah, now I got now I brought you in, and uh, but I haven't seen you since the Knicks got good again.

Speaker 1 And then we had a little passing of the torch. They beat the Celtics.
Did you go to all you, weren't you promoting a movie at some point during that series, right? Nah, I just didn't go to Boston.

Speaker 1 You didn't go to Boston? No.

Speaker 1 You won't go to Boston.

Speaker 1 You know, me and Coach are really good friends. He came, okay? He came to my office.
Yeah, there's a picture on Instagram that you can use, you know,

Speaker 1 in front of my

Speaker 1 I'm pointing at him, he's pointing at me. We got the nick team behind on the front of my office, but he, I love him as a coach, and uh,

Speaker 1 I'd like to say this. Uh,

Speaker 1 a couple weeks ago, I was invited to a mama's birthday party, a mama's vineyard, and Jason was there. Yeah.
So I just gave him a hug and said, you know, wished him a speedy weekend.

Speaker 1 I don't want to see nobody get hurt. Were you at that game? You were, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Did you know right away?

Speaker 1 I knew it was bad. That's pretty close to where you were sitting.
Yeah, I mean, I knew it was bad and also

Speaker 1 Halliburton, you know, and

Speaker 1 Dame.

Speaker 1 You know, they all wear the number zero. Do you know that? I know.
I don't know if that's a coincidence or something similar.

Speaker 1 I told Jason,

Speaker 1 I laid it down, you know, what it was. And he said,

Speaker 1 Are you going to wear a number zero? He said, Yes, he says he's going to keep it.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to figure out why all these young guys are getting hurt because the generation.

Speaker 1 Well, you think that's it? Because I've heard the high tops theory. That's definitely one of them.

Speaker 1 I also feel like there's way more running in basketball now than there used to be with the three-point line. Well, a lot of like sprinting out, trying to hedge over, flying over this way.

Speaker 1 I just think that

Speaker 1 there's a reason why players wore chucks. Right.

Speaker 1 Con, converse. Well, they would just have knee injuries back then.
Now it's like, it seems like everything's moved toward the feet in the end. Somebody should do a study because

Speaker 1 this seems like a wave of this type of injury. And, you know, when you get that, you're out for a year.
Yeah. Well, the Tatum thing was interesting because he gets hurt.
He's in New York.

Speaker 1 The best Achilles doctor is in New York. He's on the operating table 10 hours later.
The operation was in New York? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they were saying like that actually might have been good for him that he was able to get it because that's what Kobe did too.

Speaker 1 And Kobe actually came back pretty fast, but then had a different Kobe was innumerable. So let's push him.
Yeah, yeah. Put him to the side.
But that's Tatum's work ethic idol, though.

Speaker 1 I haven't seen you since Kobe died either. You were actually like legit friends with him because.
Well, we weren't great friends, but I knew that. Oh, you knew him, though.
You did. I knew about that.

Speaker 1 I had to be there. And we did this thing called Kobe doing work.
I remember at ESPN. And listen to this, though.
So we didn't want to put it out until he could do commentary.

Speaker 1 And he looked on the scale. He said, Spike, let's do it after we kick the Knicks' ass.

Speaker 1 And that's the game we set the record for the garden. I had

Speaker 1 the stat sheet. He signed to Spike.
This shit was all your fault.

Speaker 1 Is that story true that he almost backed out at the 11th hour, Kobe doing work, the day of the the game, and you had to go to the house and convince him to do it? I always heard like an urban legend.

Speaker 1 I never knew what was true and wasn't true. We were ready, and for some reason, he says, I'm not doing it.

Speaker 1 Like, and you had the 24 cameras or whatever it was, you're ready to go. I was freaking out,

Speaker 1 and then

Speaker 1 late line or something, he gave me like the thumbs up.

Speaker 1 That was close. You think he was like just testing you to missing? I don't know.

Speaker 1 But it didn't matter what it was,

Speaker 1 it will be

Speaker 1 not be what intended. If, oh, this

Speaker 1 50th anniversary of uh,

Speaker 1 I know, I know, but uh, I have a house in Monas Venue, anyway. Thank God

Speaker 1 that Kobe said, uh, gave me the thumbs up, and uh, we did it.

Speaker 1 You know, it's that, you know, everyone talks about the GOAT stuff and basketballs against basketball players, and yet with directors and actors, we don't do it that way.

Speaker 1 It's just like you basically either make some list. I like, we don't do it like that way.
I think it's better. And I'm partially probably responsible for the goat, the rank.

Speaker 1 Like, I've certainly, I wrote a seven.

Speaker 1 Well, I was, I definitely was involved, but with moot, with actors and with directors, it's more like you move into this kind of area, but nobody cares about the ranking of the area.

Speaker 1 It's more like you kind of know who's there and who's not. I think there's, I don't know what the word is, but

Speaker 1 I'm so tired of this LeBron,

Speaker 1 this goat

Speaker 1 thing that's going on forever. And then you say this, well, Kareem's not in there.
It's just, I don't, I don't think it's,

Speaker 1 what's the purpose? If you think LeBron is, or you think Michael is, you think Wilt or whoever you, you know,

Speaker 1 Kareem,

Speaker 1 good, but why do we have to spend time?

Speaker 1 Like, discussing this. Yeah, And plus, people are going to have their opinion on it.
They're not going to change the thing. I think I'm going to tell you this, though.
This is not new.

Speaker 1 I grew up in Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 there was always a Woolly Mays Mickey Mantle thing, right?

Speaker 1 So it's not new,

Speaker 1 but it's just with the internet, just it's just out of control. For me, for me.
Yeah, we've had good ones over the years. And also, man, you're great.

Speaker 1 Mike don't give a fuck about that. He said, what are you talking about? I mean, LeBron probably says the same thing.
What's what's what

Speaker 1 what is the good that comes out of that i'm asking you well i think lebron probably cares a little bit more because after after last dance you know last dance comes out it's during covet there's no sports it's like this five everybody watched that five week mj extravaganza everybody's in it there's this whole generation of people who didn't know how good a lot of people were

Speaker 1 Let's not talk about Scotty Pippin, you know.

Speaker 1 I know, but the thing is, he's becomes a hero at the end of that, Scotty Pippin, because that goes into game six when he's playing with the bad back and Jordan. You know,

Speaker 1 it is what it is.

Speaker 1 What's the guy that Phil Jackson

Speaker 1 when he ran the play for Ku Coach? Yeah, well, but that's like that's a part of Scotty's legacy, unfortunately. That and the migraine, that's just how it goes.

Speaker 1 You know, Ewing has the finger roll and it doesn't go in. Hey, hey, hey, hey, but that becomes part of his legacy.

Speaker 1 Why you're bringing Nick into it? And don't talk about game seven against Houston. Well, you did you go to game one Pacers

Speaker 1 this year?

Speaker 1 The Halliburton, the Neesmith hitting threes, and then Halliburton.

Speaker 1 You were at that game, right? It was a different,

Speaker 1 right? So that game was on recently, and I just started watching it. And I was like, I just forget what happened.
And I just couldn't believe, I couldn't believe it as it was happening.

Speaker 1 It's actually three times crazier. than I thought it was.
So in person, you must have been going nuts.

Speaker 1 Let me ask me, were you at the two games one and two where the Knicks were behind 20 points both games against the Celtics? Were you there? Oh, you missed that one, huh? You missed those two.

Speaker 1 I was fortunately on the West Coast.

Speaker 1 Up by 20. I know.
That was, I felt like we blew it in those games because of the style we were playing. The Indiana thing, Neisman's making fallaway threes.

Speaker 1 They're making some of the craziest shots, and they're all in a row. And it wasn't even like the Knicks did anything that bad.
I think they missed like two shots. They missed a free throw.

Speaker 1 But for the most part, and he's just making like literally everything for 10 minutes.

Speaker 1 So, what are we talking about? The movie, well, did you feel like that was a fluke, or did you feel like because you guys were really good?

Speaker 1 Here's the thing, though, I'm gonna leave it at this: okay, the Knicks led the league, the starting five for Knicks led the league in minutes. Yeah, I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 1 Oh, so you were a supporter of what? Of the, of the, of the change. No, look, I got nothing but respect for my brother Tibbs.

Speaker 1 So, why'd you say the minutes thing? It's a tough business. Is that the closest you felt like the Knicks were to winning a title since 94?

Speaker 1 Was that team the best team last 30 years? Look, we were up 3-2 going to Houston for games six and seven. Yeah, it's 94.
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 But this is our year. I'm not even talking about the past.

Speaker 1 This is the year. We're coming out of the East.
Well, it's lined up because you got you guys in Cleveland. We got a bench, too, now.
You You got Giannis,

Speaker 1 and basically, he's the best player in the conference, but doesn't have the best team. My team's not going to be there this year.

Speaker 1 Probably Orlando's a year away.

Speaker 1 It's a write-off, as you could tell by the two trades we made.

Speaker 1 Poor Ziggott's in holiday for nothing. Plus, you got that.
Were you in the third tier or something like that? We got out of that. You got out of it? Thank God they don't have that for movies.

Speaker 1 Second apron, third apron. Actually, that might be good for movies.
Maybe we'd start making more original movies and less superhero movies. Could be, could be, could be.

Speaker 1 Although that's starting to change now. I feel like this has been a nice renaissance year for movies with

Speaker 1 original voices. There's been original IP movies that have actually people have gone to the theater to see.

Speaker 1 You guys are back. Directors are back.

Speaker 1 From where?

Speaker 1 No, you feeling it though?

Speaker 1 I have to think about what you just said, but there's a strange thing between

Speaker 1 studio films and streaming. You know, there's still kind of

Speaker 1 wonky. So, you know, they always try to figure it out.
When you say strange, what does that mean? You mean trying to get people to actually see a movie in the theater versus being home? It's people

Speaker 1 with the price of tickets and, you know, some other thing, they'd rather just stay home. Yeah.
And I think that the stay-home thing, as you stated, as you talked about

Speaker 1 COVID, you know, there's still, COVID is not over as far as mentality, I think.

Speaker 1 You know, and there's just a thing where

Speaker 1 I'm going to stay home. I got a big ass TV on the wall.
Yeah. I don't have to drive.
I don't get a sub you know, I'm just going to sit home.

Speaker 1 I don't have people next to me on in my seat on their phone during the movie. That drives me crazy.
I don't have to see somebody's phone light during a big scene. Exactly.
But

Speaker 1 even with that, there's nothing. I remember as a kid waiting the hours online to see the Exorcist or Alien or Jaws the fifth anniversary.
There's nothing.

Speaker 1 I mean, when the film is hidden and the theater's packed,

Speaker 1 it's wonderful. It's so funny, like doing, we do that movie podcast, The Rewatchables, and there's movies where they weren't number one until like the sixth week.

Speaker 1 like these slow builds that just now it's completely different. You have to hit in the first

Speaker 1 weekend. Yeah.
First weekend.

Speaker 1 And I think think that's it it's it's uh i'm way more optimistic than i was a couple years ago because i'm with you i thought covet screwed everything up i thought it changed habits

Speaker 1 well but beyond that i'm just saying what's more important

Speaker 1 well saying for a movie standpoint now if you had a relative died of covet you would just be talking well but you know what i mean though no i don't i'm saying like the the structure of the movie business how they were made, what the prices for them were, what the goal of trying to get people into a theater.

Speaker 1 It felt like it shifted over the last five years. and now it feels like it's a little more like the 2010s let's let's do some of this

Speaker 1 i'm gonna cinophile

Speaker 1 first it was silent movies when sound came yeah then then when tv came you know it's gonna kill the theater so this all this thing is like

Speaker 1 it's sick

Speaker 1 yeah that's the word my brother

Speaker 1 so i think it's i think the biggest thing is we just need

Speaker 1 It's almost like basketball, where basketball, there'll be some years where there's like eight great players, and then there's other years where there's like 16.

Speaker 1 You have little classes, like you had your director class way back when of the up-and-commerce. Then it shifts.
And right now, it seems like we're in a good spot.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of good people right now. Well,

Speaker 1 you got to get in where you can fit in.

Speaker 1 What was your favorite movie you saw this year that wasn't yours?

Speaker 1 Sinners.

Speaker 1 My brother Ryan, he did the damn thing. Let me tell a quick story.
He called me up. He said, Spike, you happen to be in L.A.

Speaker 1 I said, yeah, why? Well, we're going through the final thing of IMAX. And if you can get here in an hour,

Speaker 1 you can see it.

Speaker 1 I'm rarely in L.A. Yeah.
So it wasn't a mistake I was there and he took a chance calling me. So I'm there.

Speaker 1 I'm on the right.

Speaker 1 Ryan's in the center and his wonderful wife, Cinzi, is there. And

Speaker 1 me, I know they're not going to want to sit next to me in a movie again because I was acting like I was

Speaker 1 my court side seated guard, and we were killing the Celtics.

Speaker 1 I was jumping up and down. I was, I was like, my mind was blown, especially the scene, the musical sequence with the genres and the eras.

Speaker 1 I was so happy.

Speaker 1 It was like I was, let's leave the Celtics off it. I was just happy

Speaker 1 to be there and that he called me out of nowhere and then just took a chance. Maybe

Speaker 1 there's a chance Spike is in LA because this was like the final

Speaker 1 the IMAX

Speaker 1 part, the IMAX thing of the film. And

Speaker 1 that film was transforming.

Speaker 1 That film took me to another place.

Speaker 1 And I love movies. Yeah.
And when I see something that's great, it just puts me,

Speaker 1 it lifts my spirit. And it spins to me with that film this

Speaker 1 i felt the same way i've seen it four times because we did a rewatchables on it that's coming monday but it just yeah i walked out

Speaker 1 ryan been a guest huh has ryan been a guest no no no we do we do like people fans of it talking about it

Speaker 1 well you need to get them but i saw it on a thursday before it had really come out i had no idea theater yeah

Speaker 1 it was in la they where sometimes they premiered early and We walked out. So you didn't know nothing.
You just went there. No, I always, I did the same thing with your movie.

Speaker 1 I don't want to know anything. The The only thing I knew about your movie was it was a remake, and that was it.
I didn't want to know anything. Whoa, whoa, it's not

Speaker 1 reimagining, reimagining, not a remake, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 Um, but that was always doesn't because you said that word remake, but all I knew was MBJ and vampires, and we were in the past, and that's it. And uh,

Speaker 1 it was just it's just so original and so creative. And then the ending

Speaker 1 when you just walk out of the theater, like, oh my God.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't want to spoil the ending for anybody who hasn't seen it, but to land the plane the way they did with that and the way they used the music.

Speaker 1 I thought it was such a great in-theater experience, especially the way he used the iMacs and the cameras.

Speaker 1 It's really, and my guy, MB. That's 28 for me so far.

Speaker 1 It's really great. And has made a ton of money.
That's the thing. People will come out if the movie's good.
So we've at least gone back to that.

Speaker 1 Because I think it felt like the studios were getting a little scared with, well, no, we got to to walk, got to hold people's hand, and it's got to be like, oh, I recognize the superhero.

Speaker 1 Now it's like, is the movie good or not? And the word of mouth feels like it's bad. Here's the thing.
We saw it with weapons.

Speaker 1 People are going to see weapons because everyone's saying, Did you see weapons? It's good.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing, though. Even more than in the past, people worry about their jobs.

Speaker 1 So very few people in this industry are going to take a risk

Speaker 1 that might give them their walking papers. Right.

Speaker 1 And it's history showing the cinema. The people that

Speaker 1 who

Speaker 1 have pushed the best films over these,

Speaker 1 who knows how many years, that they believed in the talent, they believed in the story. And they said, fuck it, you know, when you get behind this film, we'll push it out.

Speaker 1 Steven Spielbon's got a fire doing jobs, right? You know, so

Speaker 1 when you have,

Speaker 1 well, you got to look, look, this is a business, though. But if you have people in those off, in those, those

Speaker 1 spaces, in the studios, and streamers that have

Speaker 1 respect to the artist. Yeah.
And when they, when the whole world is telling them, don't do this film.

Speaker 1 And that comes to me personally. I'm getting choked up now because my brother, Tom Pollack,

Speaker 1 people told him,

Speaker 1 do not release,

Speaker 1 do the right thing, especially in the summer, because you know, black folks riot in the summertime. And that here's the thing, though, people forget about this.

Speaker 1 He had just done the

Speaker 1 Tom Pollock had just done the last temptation of Christ with Marty. That was

Speaker 1 death threats. Yeah,

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 he cannot be blamed not doing the right thing, knowing him and his family were targets for death. Yeah, but Tom Pollock did not listen to anybody,

Speaker 1 those

Speaker 1 haters.

Speaker 1 And he put do the right thing

Speaker 1 to the world because nobody

Speaker 1 coming out of can,

Speaker 1 black folks are going to riot, all this stuff, which has never happened.

Speaker 1 And today it's in the canon of great films. So

Speaker 1 you got to have people like that in the studios who are going to champion

Speaker 1 work they believe in.

Speaker 1 And look,

Speaker 1 no one wants to get killed. You know, but Tom Polly had people get that he came on the last temptation of Christ.
He had death threats, not just him to his family.

Speaker 1 And he believed in me. He believed in the film and the rest is history, history.

Speaker 1 It's funny. That's basically the last 50 years of movies.

Speaker 1 You read all the books about like, no, about the 70s, right? You have this huge director boom. And Coppo was one of the ones who was like, I don't need the studios, I want to fund my own stuff.

Speaker 1 And had One from the Heart, which almost bankrupted him. And so we had this little dance, right? I went to see a film.
One from the Heart? Opening day was

Speaker 1 St. Valentine's Day, where you see a musical.

Speaker 1 Because you were still at NYU, right? What year was that? 82?

Speaker 1 Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 yeah, 82, I finished.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 you had this. Oh,

Speaker 1 we go to this new film,

Speaker 1 Francis. He put all the money in that film.
Right. Lost it, too.

Speaker 1 So it's always been this dance with, I want to trust the director. I don't want to trust him too much.
No, I want to trust him.

Speaker 1 And you see it in TV, too, because all the greatest TV shows were done by one person, right? Sopranos, one guy.

Speaker 1 Succession, one guy. The wire, two guys.

Speaker 1 I think there's not many of those people around, though. Well, that's the thing.
And that's what makes people not trust the actual artists. But I feel like it's happening more in movies.

Speaker 1 I think people are starting to understand, like, if I just bet on somebody like Kugler, he's passionate about something,

Speaker 1 even if he's only made four movies. Everybody is good.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about this, though.

Speaker 1 Ryan took this film, the film

Speaker 1 around town. Yeah.
But no one wanted to make it because he wanted to own the rights in 25 years to get it back. And Pam and Michael Luca,

Speaker 1 thank God they said, okay.

Speaker 1 At Warner Brothers. Great business deal.
Because they needed a hit.

Speaker 1 And they've had a string of hits since then. Yeah.
And guess what? They have it for 25 years. He gets it back.
Everybody wins.

Speaker 1 I don't think that'll be a new model going forward, but I think for them. I'm glad it happened, though.
It's a little like NBA Free Agency, though.

Speaker 1 All you need is one team that really needs somebody, and they're willing to pay it, and that's it. But I mean, for him, now he can, his next one he can do whatever he wants.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but you should throw you do whatever you want

Speaker 1 just based upon Black Panther.

Speaker 1 You would think.

Speaker 1 Did you ever do you ever have fuck you power with one of your like, did you ever feel like I can make any movie I want and get a green lid or no?

Speaker 1 Never. Never.

Speaker 1 Never. I mean I never made a film over $100 million till the last one,

Speaker 1 Inside Man, which was 18 years ago. And I didn't even know it was 18 years ago since me and Denzel and I worked together until the journalist told me that

Speaker 1 that was 18 years ago. That's the only thing, only research I did because I just wanted to talk to you and not feel like I was like following some sort of that was the only thing I was like, how?

Speaker 1 When was the last time they worked together? When was Inside Mana? I was like, oh, six?

Speaker 1 First of all, that's crazy. You haven't made a movie with him since 06.
Like, that's your fault.

Speaker 1 Come on, you guys should make a movie every 10 years.

Speaker 1 Come on. Look, you've only made five.
I thought it was 12.

Speaker 1 Copla, Scorsese, and Leo have been seven.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but that's not the same as Scorsese and De Niro. And they've been 10.

Speaker 1 You know, that's not this for me.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? I know, I know, but I'm fine. I feel like you could have made one.

Speaker 1 Look at the great director.

Speaker 1 Actor, you know, you got St. Lou Met with Pacino.

Speaker 1 I don't like the politics, but John Ford and John Wayne, I think they have the record. They made like 21.
Ford and Wayne? You have to say at least 20. Yeah, how many Native Americans got killed?

Speaker 1 It was a long time ago.

Speaker 1 Them savages.

Speaker 1 Them savages. Yeah, some of them are tough watches.

Speaker 1 But yeah, Scorsese and De Niro are probably, from the last 50 years, probably the ones people would think of first.

Speaker 1 They made 10, but they also made them in different decades and they're classics for different ways.

Speaker 1 You could have snuck in for one like Equalizer or something just to keep the streak alive. No one

Speaker 1 and I were not thinking about that. And I've come to the belief as I get old in years

Speaker 1 that things happen when they happen. You know, I cannot force.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing.

Speaker 1 We saw each other in that interlude, you know, but we just didn't make a movie. You know, he has season tickets to the Lakers long.

Speaker 1 Long and me have had it with the Knicks. And so we look at the schedules and when the Knicks are going to be in L.A.
but now

Speaker 1 but now it looks like they the Knicks are in LA

Speaker 1 the same trip, so you get, I get to see the Lakers, and then they have to get this eclipse.

Speaker 1 You know what's crazy about him? Who? Denzo.

Speaker 1 So now you figure like he's a leading man, really starting late 80s, 1990 range, right? So it's been 35 years.

Speaker 1 And usually when somebody is an A-plus lister

Speaker 1 in the face of a movie poster, at some point, you kind of either have to move into the old guy roles or you move into like where Cruises or is basically just doing Mission Impossible and like franchise things.

Speaker 1 And Denzel could still play these original characters where I still feel like he can kick somebody's ass if he has to. And he can do all these other pieces.
I know. Don't give it away.

Speaker 1 I don't want to give it away. But

Speaker 1 I just can't believe he's kept that going all these years later. He's, he's.
It's almost like watching LeBron in year 23. Like, I don't understand how he's still doing this.
Here's the thing for me.

Speaker 1 And I say this very respectfully for me

Speaker 1 i feel denzil is the greatest of an actor now the escort says he's gonna say the narrow france gonna say rando

Speaker 1 this is back to our previous discussion though about yeah there's no in but it's not i just want to be mentioned it's not as vicious as yeah

Speaker 1 lebron

Speaker 1 michael

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 I think being mentioned is the win. Celebrate

Speaker 1 for me, the whole, especially more in sports. And I don't think people go around saying, well,

Speaker 1 Ganero was this.

Speaker 1 I mean, I think it just really has gone off the charts in sports. For me, yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's

Speaker 1 for me, mine. Oh, there goes Dave the Busher.
But

Speaker 1 for me,

Speaker 1 it's it's a waste of time

Speaker 1 for me.

Speaker 1 And I know Michael thinks that way because we've talked about it, man. He's like, man, I got too many things to do.
I got kids. You know, I gotta do this.

Speaker 1 Plus, Michael knows who's the best, so he doesn't talk about it. And where was he born? He's like, I don't even talk about it.
Where was Michael born? I thought it was North Carolina. No,

Speaker 1 he's born in Brooklyn. Oh, there you go.
Come on Hospital. Mike Tyson was born there, and Bernard Albert King.
Jesus. Come on Hospital is a hospital in my neighborhood.

Speaker 1 I grew up in Fort Green, Brooklyn. Mike,

Speaker 1 Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson, Bernard Albert King, all born in the same hospital in the People's Republic of Brooklyn, New York. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 I was upset that you weren't defending Bernard's name a little

Speaker 1 more vociferously when Brunson had like, and by the way, I love Brunson, but he had a couple good playoff games. And then it's like, greatest nick ever.
It's like, what? Who's did I say that?

Speaker 1 No, you didn't say it, but that was out there. And it was like, did you guys, you guys got to go on YouTube and watch Bernard in 84 for like two months? Two months just killing everybody.

Speaker 1 Like, come on. brunson was great you know as you know as his teammate was there in tennessee ernie grandfeld

Speaker 1 yeah burnt the burnt

Speaker 1 yeah both of them broke here's the thing with denzel though i think he's a one-on-one

Speaker 1 where

Speaker 1 there's certain basketball players like this too i just

Speaker 1 nobody can be the cool you can play the the the role where you're the coolest guy in the movie but he can also disappear into a character

Speaker 1 He can be like the dad in an ordinary people type movie, but he could also be the guy in Man on Fire. right like he can or training day or training day can come

Speaker 1 like hanks had that crazy run right but hanks there's certain roles he just wouldn't do or he just you you wouldn't have bought him in

Speaker 1 denzel i i feel like is the most malleable of any a plus lister we've had he can really literally put him in anything even in this movie like he's never put a character quite like the guy in this movie yeah i am not going to argue with you uh that would be my case for him i understand.

Speaker 1 He's

Speaker 1 a blessing I've dealt with

Speaker 1 five Mobetta Blues, Malcolm X. He got game,

Speaker 1 Inside Man, which was 18 years ago. And now this.

Speaker 1 The last time you were on my podcast, we told the story about when he got the first four points off Ray Allen.

Speaker 1 Well, but then I saw Denzel after.

Speaker 1 I think I did a podcast with him, I think, after you. And he told his version of the story.
And he's clearly more proud of it than just about anything. He probably did

Speaker 1 see. You know, Denzel played JV at Fordham.
Yeah. And PJ Charismo was his coach.

Speaker 1 So he's, you know,

Speaker 1 he loves sports. He's a season ticket for the Lakers.
I mean, I saw him on ESPN. You were there too, killing Jerry Jones.

Speaker 1 That was him.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the script in the script:

Speaker 1 Ray Allen's supposed to win at 11-0. Right? He's supposed to kill him.
But Denzel's like, fuck that.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to leave the basket. And so Denzel starts throwing up some, there's throwing up shit that's going in.
Yeah. And we have to have

Speaker 1 an acting coach name of Susan Batson.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 Denzel's throwing these baskets, and then she's yelling at him, what are you doing? What are you doing?

Speaker 1 And then Ray starts yelling at me. He says, Time out,

Speaker 1 you say, Cut, he's saying with the technical

Speaker 1 because he was like, Was he like embarrassed? Yes,

Speaker 1 well, Denzel was doing the old guy bang against. I know, here's the thing, though.
He's looking at me. I said,

Speaker 1 Ray's looking at me like, What the fuck is going on? I just showed up like this,

Speaker 1 and then

Speaker 1 Ray said, Oh,

Speaker 1 and here's the thing, though. The point is that that

Speaker 1 Denzo, him

Speaker 1 makes some baskets made that scene better because I wrote it as 11th zip.

Speaker 1 It's one of the best sports.

Speaker 1 It's one of my favorite, favorite sports movies. And then you also go wide on it.
And then also, you got

Speaker 1 the great Music Election of Aaron Copeland for that, too. And think about that.
That film, the Music film, was public enemy. And the great American poser

Speaker 1 Aaron Copeland. So then, I mean, his story sounds amazing.
That he made the movie better. I wrote

Speaker 1 Ray's character when he lived in Zip.

Speaker 1 But D was like, nah, he didn't tell me he's going to do that, though. That's the thing, though.
He just did it.

Speaker 1 And the shots we would make were lucky.

Speaker 1 And they were going, but they were going in.

Speaker 1 We did that movie a couple years ago for Rewatchables, and it's aged in this awesome way. And it's stuff like I didn't realize when I saw it in the theater, what, 97.

Speaker 1 Some of the stuff that's in there is where basketball is going, which you saw pretty early.

Speaker 1 And I don't think I saw that. What was that? What was that? Just how fast things were moving for fame for high school kids.

Speaker 1 The system. Oh,

Speaker 1 all the money that

Speaker 1 my brother Rick Fox takes him down.

Speaker 1 Takes him to UNC, yeah, for the trip. You look all porn stars there.

Speaker 1 But you know what's funny, though? Now, you know where I sit in the garden.

Speaker 1 So when teens were visiting team would come in, they'd be going by me like Spike, man, you gave way too much.

Speaker 1 Right, seriously, you spelled the bees. We thought we had on lock, man.

Speaker 1 You put out the effort in the world to see.

Speaker 1 They said a joke leave me like, yo, Spike, man, yo, come on, you put too much in it, T-Butts in there. But you had, so you had Marbury as your access into that world, right?

Speaker 1 Because you were friendly with him? Not really. It's just Abraham Lincoln.
That was the school. I mean, a lot of players.
Oh, I thought, I thought Jesus was modeled a little bit. Is that an old West?

Speaker 1 That's what Stefan said, but really, Coney Island, historically, no

Speaker 1 Abraham Lincoln. That's the school for basketball.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And of course, Stefan went there, but it was not, it was, it was not a bias. Something shifted over the course of the 90s as more money goes into basketball.
What do you call it?

Speaker 1 College started to go. What do you call it? Which one? NI.

Speaker 1 Oh, the NIO. Well, now it's like, now you got to make He Got Game 2, and you just do an NIO.
You ain't. Oh, so many people.

Speaker 1 First of all, you know, I want you to

Speaker 1 do that. First of all, you know, I shit the Garden.
So if anybody wants to say something to me, but

Speaker 1 the Knicks, they come over.

Speaker 1 People at the foul line, and the guys over here says Spike.

Speaker 1 Oh, because they want to be in it. Yeah, and then also Skylar, what's her name? Diggs? Yeah.

Speaker 1 She's the first one that says, Spike God Dooms again, sequel, but flip it. Make it a.
Yeah. She said that.
She was the first one to say that. That's a great idea.
Why wouldn't you do that?

Speaker 1 I haven't done any remakes.

Speaker 1 It's not a remake.

Speaker 1 It's a continuation. It's a remake.
It's a reinterpretation. Like on Duma Corsawa.

Speaker 1 You need a reimagining of him. I use the word reinterpretation.
Reinterpretation.

Speaker 1 This is a continuation. This is like Top Gun Maverick.
You get Jesus, you get Ray Allen in it now.

Speaker 1 And it's his daughter.

Speaker 1 Come on. Ray Allen said that.

Speaker 1 He is saying that every year. He's available.
He's ready to be in it.

Speaker 1 I actually think he's good in that movie. Like, when you think of the legacy, I mean, obviously, you know this.
The best basketball player performance ever is Bernard King in Fast Break as Hustler.

Speaker 1 Like ripping off lines. Like he's the most natural actor we've ever had.
You're not buying that one? I'm not going to pair. I mean, I haven't seen him in a long time.

Speaker 1 Bernard's good in that movie, Bernard was into Miami Vice with Bill Russell. Yeah, Bill Russell and Bernard were father and son in an episode.

Speaker 1 Bernard was a good actor.

Speaker 1 I thought Ray was good. It's not, it's not a long list of good Anthony Edwards was good in the Adam Sandler movie.

Speaker 1 The what Adam Sandler made a movie on uh called Hustle on Netflix, and Anthony Edwards is in

Speaker 1 what's the one that uh

Speaker 1 that uh Kevin Garnett was in

Speaker 1 on Cut Gems. Kevin Garnett was was good.
Yeah, he was good.

Speaker 1 A Boston Celtic.

Speaker 1 And I thought, even though Eddie was not a good movie, which I'm sure you probably hated. I hate it.
I thought Malik Seely was good in that movie. I thought Rick Fox was good, too.

Speaker 1 We've had some good ones. Rick is an actor.
Rick's an actor. You put him in this movie.
And yeah, Coach Fox. Playing himself.
Coach Fox. Coach Fox.

Speaker 1 I don't know why he took the Larry Bird shot, though.

Speaker 1 I think he was. He's not a shot.

Speaker 1 That's what that was his. That's what a policeman would say.

Speaker 1 The guy was a Celtic fan, so why wouldn't he get that Rick Florida? You healed with Larry Bird, and now you're taking, now you're taking shots at him. I'm not taking a shot.

Speaker 1 As I said before, ladies and gentlemen, those listening home, I have the utmost respect for Larry Bird. We have to, there's a big thing before we talk about your movie.

Speaker 1 I feel like Shalom is on your corner a little bit, and I want to make sure you guys are good because he's become a signature Knicks fan. He's kind of

Speaker 1 in your real estate. Have you hashed this out? What's going on? No.

Speaker 1 My daughter

Speaker 1 and my son,

Speaker 1 they all grew up together in New York City. So I got, man,

Speaker 1 we want to condone this. We want to do a film together.
Oh, so you're in. Okay.
I mean. All right.
He's on your corner a little bit. You're sharing it.
It's a good corner now.

Speaker 1 It's no competition.

Speaker 1 He's wearing Chrome Hearts, Nick's wardrobe. Like, he's really stepped it up.
Look, Look,

Speaker 1 there's no robbery there.

Speaker 1 This is like LeBron Jordan. He's a great actor.
I'm just trying to start shit. He's a great actor, and one day we're going to work together.
I'm just trying to start the central Nick's Island.

Speaker 1 There's no shit to be started. I don't know.
I heard he was telling people it's my team now. No, he wasn't.
Spike's Day was.

Speaker 1 Spike's Day was Patrick Ewing. Why are they lying on it? Why are they lying on it, Timothy? Now, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 People try to, I know you do with kidding, but people are trying to start stuff at the meeting. Me and him are good, man.
It's all good. Oh, do people actually try to start stuff

Speaker 1 interesting yeah

Speaker 1 he's a hair parent you know i'm hand i'm gonna hand him the baton but it's not we just love the next awesome where are you going you're you have plenty of good nicks years ahead of you well god willing

Speaker 1 look he's a good guy he's a real

Speaker 1 he's a he's a real fan he's a great actor and we've talked about doing a film together you know once this schedule

Speaker 1 clears up the next

Speaker 1 yeah i was gonna say he's kind of in demand

Speaker 1 well maybe it could be a

Speaker 1 Knicks-related. Nah, it's going to have nothing to do with sports.

Speaker 1 He's a W fan sports radio host.

Speaker 1 You know what? I'm trying to think of it.

Speaker 1 You had to think longer and harder. Yeah, let me get back to the workshop on that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so it's you two. Who else was going on the road for those games? You guys were the two big ones, right?

Speaker 1 Seemed like there was a little celebrity posse traveling around. Yes, that guy, Al Palagoni, you know, he sits next to me.
You know, he has

Speaker 1 Apollo Jets, so we're all on his plane and a lot of the players, too. You must be so excited, though, that they're good again.
I mean, you talk about sticking through the lean years.

Speaker 1 It's like it's two fucking decades.

Speaker 1 Look, we've not won a world championship since the 72, 73 season. I know.

Speaker 1 How many years is that? I was three years. How many years is that? My brother,

Speaker 1 50, 52. I was three years old.
Not 53. But it's going to be 53 this year.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is a glory year.

Speaker 1 I don't want anybody to get hurt.

Speaker 1 But with Tatum

Speaker 1 and Halliburton, I'm not scared

Speaker 1 of Cleveland. They went out the first round last year.

Speaker 1 You should probably be scared of OKC. I would be scared of them.
Look, well,

Speaker 1 that means we're in the finals. Yeah, that means you're in the finals.
Yeah, but let's get out of here. We're in the Eastern Division first.

Speaker 1 That's why I said Boston and Indiana. Indiana put us out the last two years in the playoffs.
Your guy, if you look at the book there, Goldman's staring at you, he missed all of it.

Speaker 1 Great writer. Great writer.
Great seats man. He had his seats right behind the baseline way before me.
He went to all of them in the last 15 years. Like there was no good memories.

Speaker 1 But now, in the Brunson thing,

Speaker 1 I don't know how sustainable it is with small guards

Speaker 1 to be like, to just do this for seven, eight years because the pounding he takes. Like Isaiah was retired when he he was like 32.
Like Isaiah Thomas, the Celtics version, you know,

Speaker 1 he was last in 2017, he got hurt. I just, he takes a lot of hits.
That would be my one fear with him. I don't think this will happen with Mr.
Brothers.

Speaker 1 What do you mean?

Speaker 1 You just think he's just built different. And he's a crazy worker.
He's built like that. He's built for it.
And so he's going to be the one to lead us to the Gloryland.

Speaker 1 You get along with his dad? Rick?

Speaker 1 His dad's running the team apparently one of the team no he's not even a lead he's lead assistant coach now i know that's that was a rumor that was going around oh it's true no i know it's lean on worldwide west

Speaker 1 no i'm saying

Speaker 1 mike brown is hiring his own

Speaker 1 assistant coaches is rick brunson i thought he was on the bench he's not he's only left everybody else is gone

Speaker 1 and you like mike brown

Speaker 1 yeah i think that look i love too you seem very confident last time i saw you you were not confident at all. Yeah, how many years ago was that? That was like 2019, 18 range.
Yeah, you were 2025 now.

Speaker 1 I think you just traded Porzingus. You ever heard that soap opera as the world turns? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think you just traded Porzingus and you were down in the dumps. Or you're about to trade Porzingas.
What happened? The Knicks. That was the last time I saw you.

Speaker 1 Shoot, you guys got rid of him.

Speaker 1 Well, we had to. They changed the rules on

Speaker 1 oh that rule is just for the boss and self change the rules come on i'm sorry we built an awesome team of assets now you have to take assets away from us it's gonna happen in the next yeah yeah yeah yeah you can't keep these teams

Speaker 1 when we get a ring yeah well mate well so he got game two as as a gender flip i think is great this movie you did um which i saw last night which was exhilarating last night i did you had a screener i did no i went to the i went to one of those screening theaters i I would have liked a bigger theater, but

Speaker 1 it did the job. And I didn't read anything.
I didn't know where it was going.

Speaker 1 I just had a great time. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I had a great time.

Speaker 1 You know what? Denzel Washton, he's been in my life now.

Speaker 1 I mean, you have to go back to Sin Elsewhere because I saw him on that show.

Speaker 1 But like, as a reliable, I'm going to go see Denzel in a movie theater. This is now 35 years.

Speaker 1 It's atypical. And then you two together.

Speaker 1 He's consistent, too. Yeah, you two together.
Like, of course, I'm going to enjoy that. Dean Lee.

Speaker 1 So you're doing the reinterpretation. Yes, of the Kurosawa film, which is made from American novel written by Ed McBain.

Speaker 1 So United States, Japan, and also that was Japan post-war, 1963, 1963. And that was shoes.
Yeah, and I mean,

Speaker 1 Denzel B

Speaker 1 owner of a shoe company, you know,

Speaker 1 I think you had to bring him back to the culture. And he's

Speaker 1 head of the founder and head of a record label, Stackin' Hits. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he's come to this point where

Speaker 1 that music is hard to stay on top, you know,

Speaker 1 for

Speaker 1 decades. And the thing for me that really drew me to this part

Speaker 1 behind working with Denzil again is that

Speaker 1 and what makes the novel

Speaker 1 and also Cura Sauer's film

Speaker 1 highest lowest is it that when you're an audience man, this is what I think when you're an audience watching this film,

Speaker 1 you put yourself in the shoes of Denzel Washington

Speaker 1 with this morality. What will you do?

Speaker 1 I love what will you do movies.

Speaker 1 This is one of them. Yeah, you're sitting in your seat going, fuck.

Speaker 1 I know what the right choice is. Would I do it?

Speaker 1 And that's that's and then when you have an actor,

Speaker 1 a STEAM actor on the level of Denzel Washington,

Speaker 1 I'm sure everybody who sees this film in the theater or at home will feel the same way,

Speaker 1 asking themselves, what will they do if they were in the situation Denzel's character, David King, is in?

Speaker 1 So you've known him for so long.

Speaker 1 Because I do this now because I'm

Speaker 1 a little younger than you, but I'm still in my mid-50s. But you started.
When were you born? I was 69. So you go back

Speaker 1 in the years past.

Speaker 1 An amazing 69 match. Well, Russell's last title.
I like to think of 69 and the moon.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 managed by Gil Hodges, Ed Cranepool at first. That was a great team.
Ken Boswell at second. Bud Harrelson in short.

Speaker 1 Did you like that team? I love that team. Kleon Jones in left.
Tommy AG. In center, Ron Shriboto

Speaker 1 in right. Seaverton.
Tommy Ryan. Jerry Kuzman, Gary Gentry, Nolan.
There's a famous card, baseball card. Gary Gentry and Nolan, Nolan Ryan, share the same rookie card.
Yeah. Rookie card.
So, and also,

Speaker 1 sometime first baseman, Don Clendennon. And Don Clendennon went to my college, Morrow's College.
Down in Atlanta.

Speaker 1 What? Down with two ends. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The reason I brought up 69 was I have friends that I've had for since 1988. Things we did together, they just blend in with each other.
You've known Denzel since the 80s.

Speaker 1 You made five movies with the Bo Better Blues. Yeah, yeah.
I knew him before that, though. So, when you think of like this relationship you have with them, does the shit blend in together?

Speaker 1 Do you remember specific things? Or what is it at this point? Here's the thing, though.

Speaker 1 Me and Denzel are friends. We trust each other, but we might see each other

Speaker 1 when the lake when the lake when Nick's in LA, I'm sitting with him in

Speaker 1 What's the new place called?

Speaker 1 Lorena. Intuitome.
No, that's the Clippers.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Anyway, and then he might,

Speaker 1 he's in New York, he lives in New York too. You know, we come to Nick Games.
So it's not like we're best friends.

Speaker 1 We'll talk all the time, but we're doing a film

Speaker 1 is rock salt. So when you've done a film, when you've done four other movies with somebody and then you're doing the fifth with them,

Speaker 1 is there like a shorthand?

Speaker 1 just

Speaker 1 new every time? We did not

Speaker 1 have to have a deep conversation about the other force we've done and what we know.

Speaker 1 We work. It's like we

Speaker 1 work together. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Inside man was yesterday. Right.
That's that's what we have. And our wives are close and our children.
Denzel's son was a leading black clansman, John David

Speaker 1 Washington. So

Speaker 1 it's it's you have to be up in somebody's face every single minute, you know, because if the bond is there and it's on solid grounds, it's on trust and love, that's all you need. Right.

Speaker 1 You have to see him every day.

Speaker 1 When I did a pod with him, I was all excited to go backwards and talk about different movies he made. And he's the opposite.

Speaker 1 He just is like, I made the movie, it happened, I don't think about it anymore. That's what Denzel.
Denzel,

Speaker 1 I'm going to say this: Denzel doesn't even look at his films once.

Speaker 1 He didn't want to talk about it. He wanted to talk about the Knicks and the Lakers.

Speaker 1 Denzel. Yeah.
That's what I mean. He moves on.
Moves on. What's next? Like, what about Man on Fire? It's like, yeah, Tony Scott.
Is it like he just doesn't care?

Speaker 1 Well, he cares, but I think it's just his process. Right.
He's on top.

Speaker 1 He's in the moment. He's in the future.
And he's not. And the past is gone.
And you can't bring it back. But it's like Tom Brady.
What's your favorite Super Bowl? The next one? That's Denzel.

Speaker 1 What's your favorite movie? The next one. No, let me look.
Now you bring up Tom Brady.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
With the seven Super Bowls not enough.

Speaker 1 Who's this? What's that? you know what that is

Speaker 1 are you tucker in three

Speaker 1 oh come on

Speaker 1 what's this manningham

Speaker 1 so that one bothered me more why because we undefeated that year because they they outplayed us in 07.

Speaker 1 the giants were better that game like they kicked our ass that game

Speaker 1 that 2011 giants team stunk

Speaker 1 no we we gave we gave them that game i'm gonna get in the call right now no how we make a come on how do we make a super bowl stink well the the Lambo game, that was a good one, but we were better than them in 11.

Speaker 1 Why'd you win then? We stunk. We choked away the game.
So why are you? You're undefeated. Eli made one.
You're undefeated. You're undefeated.
No, that was 07. So you choose the Super Bowl for stink?

Speaker 1 No, that was 07. You guys beat us in 07.

Speaker 1 Like that front four dominated the game. They were better.

Speaker 1 I'm fine with those. Straight hand? Yeah, they 07, we lost.
We couldn't run the ball, and the front four killed us. So Tom Brady was courtside at Nick Game.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they gave him a ball signed. He has to throw up in the stands during timeout.
Yeah. So Tom says, Come here, Spike.

Speaker 1 When this thing happens, I'm going to throw the ball to you first. And you throw it back to me.

Speaker 1 He throws me a bullet like I'm Gronk. Right.
I'm 5'6.

Speaker 1 The ball flies over my head.

Speaker 1 And I'm lucky it hit me Right.

Speaker 1 Right. So the ball goal here, I run back and give it to him and he threw open, but that was funny.
Do you feel like you've been around? I also like to say this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I got the utmost respect for Brady. Great guy.
Thank you. Great guy.
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Speaker 1 You've been around a lot of cool actors, people with charisma, and a lot of cool athletes with charisma. Is there some sort of common,

Speaker 1 is there some sort of common DNA trait that you notice? Confidence. Right.

Speaker 1 Not every athlete's not a

Speaker 1 great actor, but I'm talking about the greats and the ones that really thrive in front of the camera.

Speaker 1 Confidence also, they take direction too. Hmm.

Speaker 1 So the athletes and the great ones, they got to listen to the coach.

Speaker 1 The coach they call on the fucked-up play and they say, fuck that, I'm not doing that. But in general,

Speaker 1 that they listen,

Speaker 1 listen.

Speaker 1 They start listening to coaches

Speaker 1 when they're

Speaker 1 in the major. That shit starts

Speaker 1 early.

Speaker 1 Top one or whatever it is, you know.

Speaker 1 And the great ones

Speaker 1 had the blessing blessing of having a coach

Speaker 1 that could put them on a straight path, lay down stuff you got to do to get there.

Speaker 1 Because you always hear these guys talk about not necessarily their pro coach, but the highest, especially a high school coach, high school coach who

Speaker 1 made

Speaker 1 the path

Speaker 1 smoother world you wanted, but those those high school coaches laid down the foundation. Do you agree with that?

Speaker 1 I think coaches, especially at the elementary, high school level, are like seven times more important than people give it credit for.

Speaker 1 But now it's getting they can make you either not like sports or they can make you

Speaker 1 just travel

Speaker 1 it's crazy. They we're at a great reckoning with basketball right now.

Speaker 1 What's that? Tell me

Speaker 1 the specialization, the AAU stuff, the flying everywhere, the playing

Speaker 1 eight games and two weekends. And it's all for the, there's pressure on these parents that if you don't do it, your kid's going to fall behind.

Speaker 1 And they've lost in the sauce, they fucked up everything.

Speaker 1 And uh, well, it doesn't mute, doesn't money usually do that? Well, that's for damn sure. But the specialization, you talk to some of these, some of the best athletes you've ever had.

Speaker 1 Like even LeBron played football in high school, like he was playing multiple sports.

Speaker 1 But something that's playing multiple sports helps, whatever sport you really, and it also helps if you're an awesome athlete that could play multiple sports.

Speaker 1 The confidence thing, though, is there another actor other than

Speaker 1 like like Denzel, obviously, but were there other people you remember where you're like, man, that guy really

Speaker 1 or that lady really, really knows what they're doing?

Speaker 1 Because you've had 40 years of movies now. John Tutoro.
John Tutoro.

Speaker 1 Edward Norton.

Speaker 1 Oh, you got, that's my favorite. That's my favorite Spike Lee movie.
25th Hour. Yeah.
Phillip Seymour Hoffman.

Speaker 1 I mean, that movie is incredible. We talked about it last time, but it's basically the nine the right after 9-11 movie that people didn't realize was the right after 9-11 movie, but it is.

Speaker 1 Yeah, um nobody went to see that movie when it came out. And uh

Speaker 1 I'm a New Yorker, and I the thing about that I wasn't even in New York for

Speaker 1 9-11. Where were you? I was in L.A.

Speaker 1 I was

Speaker 1 trying to get Arnold Schwarzenegger

Speaker 1 in a film I was doing

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 To do a film called Save Us Joe Lewis. I wrote with the great Bud Schulberg, and he was going to play Max Schmelling.
Really?

Speaker 1 So I was on a, I left, and we had a meeting

Speaker 1 that morning, and we weren't even talking. We were just looking at the TV screen.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you sprinkled some serious New York in this new movie. I don't want to spoil it for the people that haven't listened, but there's an action.
I'm a New Yorker.

Speaker 1 You got Yankee Stadium,

Speaker 1 you have a parade. You got

Speaker 1 all kinds of stuff happening. And I like to say, if I can, right now,

Speaker 1 we're all saddened by the loss. There's a great, great, great Eddie Palmieri who passed.

Speaker 1 I mean, his scene where he performed the anthem, not anthem, but the great song Puerto Rico that holds that scene together.

Speaker 1 And he just died last week. Damn.
You know that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, he died.

Speaker 1 So I was thinking

Speaker 1 your first movie was 86. She's going to have it.
It's now 2000. This is your 40th year of making movies.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 48 years? 40. Oh, 40.
4-0. This is your 40th spikely movie.
40 years, 40 for 40 acres on a mule.

Speaker 1 Would you have guessed that in 86? I will make 40 years of movies. No.
I mean, I barely making shit

Speaker 1 practically killed me. So everything after that, my brother's been a blessing.
Because I say this all the time. I hope that people

Speaker 1 don't get mad at me saying this if they heard it more than once.

Speaker 1 On this God's earth,

Speaker 1 if you can make a living doing what you love, you won.

Speaker 1 Majority of people on this God's earth grow their grave haven't worked at a job they hated, but they're going to put it, make it not gonna let their kids starve,

Speaker 1 poles on kids' back and food, and a roof over your head. But

Speaker 1 that's not their dream. Right.
You know, but when you get to

Speaker 1 do what your dream is, you won.

Speaker 1 You won. I don't think you could say that enough.

Speaker 1 Because it's true. It's true.
I mean, you talk to a lot of college kids and stuff, but that must be one of your big messages, right?

Speaker 1 Well, my brother, I know I said term many times, but I mean it is

Speaker 1 truthful.

Speaker 1 The thing that brings me joy, besides making films, I'm a cinephile

Speaker 1 and I'm a

Speaker 1 tenured professor of film at NYU Graduate Film School. Yeah.
Ernest Dixon, my

Speaker 1 great TP

Speaker 1 in those early years, and Ang Lee, we're classmates.

Speaker 1 Ang Lee? Yes. And Jim, the same class.
And Jim Jalmers were two years ahead of us.

Speaker 1 So Jim Jalmers had white hair even back then. So when Jim Jalmers' Strange in Paradise hit, we were like, that was, we were so so happy because look,

Speaker 1 Alderstone was before us at NYU. Mario was before us at NYU.
So we loved them, but we didn't, they weren't in our class, right? They weren't in the building when we were there, you know.

Speaker 1 So when Jarmish,

Speaker 1 I always give my love to Jim Jarmers because he made it possible

Speaker 1 that independence to him is the way to go. So everything Jim did with Stranger Paradise, I did what she's going to have it.
I followed the festival thing like that.

Speaker 1 So I'm a teacher. I've been teaching here 30 years.

Speaker 1 Every Thursday, well, when I'm shooting the film, I take the semester off.

Speaker 1 But I love teaching class.

Speaker 1 I love it. And I'm not going to name people, several, more than several people working today.

Speaker 1 I was their professor. Not that I was the only professor.
Yeah. But

Speaker 1 I helped them.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it's gratifying to see

Speaker 1 young people

Speaker 1 win,

Speaker 1 you know, and that, and that

Speaker 1 even for a class, I have class from I have lunch from one to two, from two to four,

Speaker 1 from two to five or six, depending upon the film we're showing.

Speaker 1 A lot of times we have guests,

Speaker 1 and from seven

Speaker 1 to twelve, I have advisement where

Speaker 1 30-minute slots, students come in, I look at their films, I read their scripts, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 We had one. So we watched,

Speaker 1 what was the film? Close encounters. So lights go up.
Oh, I just watched that movie. Right.
Come on.

Speaker 1 Lights come up. And then

Speaker 1 Steven Spielberg walks down the aisle behind them. They come on.
They said because he was gracious enough to come to my class. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 People.

Speaker 1 went motherfucking crazy. Just saw the great, you know, close, close encounters, the lights come up, and he's he's there walking around.
So, anytime we have guests, we surprise them.

Speaker 1 Same thing happened with Edward Norton with your film 25th Hour. So, when I can, I have guests because

Speaker 1 I just don't want to hear one voice.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Spike said, My, my, my, my, but when you bring in the person that wrote the script, the person writing it, you know, the wrote it, the star of it, the producer of it, it just makes it uh, you know, I mean, Spielberg walking in, they're probably not even, they're probably just so stunned, it's not even a reaction.

Speaker 1 No, they started cheering.

Speaker 1 Like, oh my God. They started cheering and clapping, and they were happy.
And

Speaker 1 Stephen, he told me he really liked that, that he had a chance to come speak to young filmmakers. How are you feeling about the state of black filmmakers these days, especially the younger ones?

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, you can't look, everybody's excited about what Ryan has done,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 he's not the only one. And so it it's it's still a a struggle.
And so

Speaker 1 gotta keep on keeping on you know that's just the nature of the business you know so the one thing that's changed I think the the most severely in a good way what's that well think about when you did Malcolm X it was initially going to go to a white director Norman Jewison who's one of the you know one of the best director

Speaker 1 hurricane with Denzel yeah but and also but in that case the way Hollywood thought about that stuff they never even

Speaker 1 never even occurred to people like yeah maybe

Speaker 1 we should have a black director for this. But now it feels like that's shifted.
But here's the thing though: like, with all types of films.

Speaker 1 If let me add this, here's the thing though, and not too many people know about this. That film was Norman Juleson's film.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he developed it, right?

Speaker 1 With

Speaker 1 Marvin's last name. Anyway, he I made it known that, you know, I had a certain type of feeling about that.
So Marvin Worth, he arranged a meeting between

Speaker 1 Norman Juleson, the late, great Norman Jules, and I, and I just explained to Norman

Speaker 1 why I thought I should be directed to the film. And Norman, we had a talk back and forth.
And

Speaker 1 he bowed out gracefully. He didn't have to do that.
The film was his. The film was Norman's.

Speaker 1 He chose Denzel.

Speaker 1 Denzel was part of that film, but even before me, also, Denzel had done an off-roadway play called When Chickens Come Home the Roost. But I got to give

Speaker 1 a shout out to norma juice because he

Speaker 1 if he could have said spike you know f you i'm directing it but he didn't do that yeah and then in the early 90s it probably wouldn't have been a big deal

Speaker 1 in fact you probably would have been like who's spike lee why does he think he should direct this it's definitely shifting i hadn't done film before that was no i know but you don't even know you know what i'm saying i'm getting a shout out i'm complimenting

Speaker 1 so what was the great the late great norman juice what's the biggest movie that you thought you were going to do that you're the most excited to do and then you didn't do?

Speaker 1 Was there one that was like your

Speaker 1 one? Your big kahuna? There's two. It was a Jackie Robinson movie, which I was going to do with Ted Turner.

Speaker 1 But my approach was I did not want to do a film just about 1947. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I want to do a biopic.

Speaker 1 They chose not to, but, you know, Chadwood did a great job. And the other script, which I've mentioned, is called Save Us Joe Lewis, which I wrote with the great, great Bud Shilberg.

Speaker 1 Bud Shilberg was inducted. He's in the Boxing Hall of Fame.

Speaker 1 Bud

Speaker 1 wrote Oscar on the Waterfront.

Speaker 1 And through Kazan, I got to meet Bud, and we became very close. We wrote this script together

Speaker 1 about the relationship between.

Speaker 1 Joe Lewis and Max Schmell and all the stuff that's happening. Yeah, it's actually a fascinating story that they became friends after and all of it.
And, you know, Schmel was not a Nazi. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it didn't happen. The first fight in Yankee Stadium, Joe didn't train, got knocked out of the second fight.
He trained. He knocked Schmelan out.

Speaker 1 But the thing about this, the second fight, before the second fight, FDR summoned Joe Lewis to the White House. And he said, Come here, George.
FDR was in a wheelchair. And he said,

Speaker 1 these are the muscles that we're going to beat the Nazis with.

Speaker 1 People thought

Speaker 1 that the winner of the Schmel and Lewis fight, the second fight, 938, would determine

Speaker 1 the winner of World War II.

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 1 And it went like Joe's here and

Speaker 1 post-war Germany, Coca-Cola,

Speaker 1 America, all America want to get business in Germany. The war is over.

Speaker 1 And Coca-Cola needs a president, so select Max Schmell to be president of Coca-Cola in Germany.

Speaker 1 Joe gets involved in drugs and stuff, and he's a greeter at Caesar's Palace some place, you know, some hotel in

Speaker 1 Las Vegas. And so it shifted.
Joe and it broke, and Schmell was the president of

Speaker 1 Coca-Cola. Jesus.
It's an epic film. Anthorita.
Yeah, Joe became like a casino greeter, right? He just was

Speaker 1 and you know, he got into drugs, you know, and cocaine, stuff like that. But

Speaker 1 the fact that

Speaker 1 me and Bud became really tight. Yeah.
And this is a guy that wrote, you know, what makes Sammy Run and

Speaker 1 Facing the Crowd, the film after

Speaker 1 Waterfront.

Speaker 1 And there were several times where

Speaker 1 you call me up, Spike, did you get the money? Yeah, he had a very particular voice. And I made a promise to the great bud Shulbrook that on his deathbed, literally, I would get this film made.

Speaker 1 It never happened. Not yet.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie.
We're getting to Bud.

Speaker 1 Bud, we're getting this film made.

Speaker 1 Could there be a Michael Jordan movie?

Speaker 1 Because I feel like the documentaries

Speaker 1 are so good now, you wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it.
I don't think Mike would want to do it either. I'm like, I can't speak to him, but

Speaker 1 right now,

Speaker 1 in my opinion, Mike just wants to be left the fuck alone.

Speaker 1 Just leave me alone.

Speaker 1 I got my boat. I got this.
I got my car thing going. Just

Speaker 1 let me live my life. That's what I think I get from Mike now.

Speaker 1 Because I think the last dance is almost like the movie. Like, if you're going to do Michael Jordan movie, just watch The Last Dance.
And I don't know if you could make a movie that's,

Speaker 1 you know, I thought, Ali, I know you were interested in doing the Ali movie at some point. It's got some

Speaker 1 with Will Smith, it's got some interesting stretches, but ultimately, like Ali was such a one-on-one, it's hard to even play. How do you play him?

Speaker 1 There was nobody like him, we've never had a human being like him before or since. You know, but look,

Speaker 1 everybody makes their choices,

Speaker 1 and uh, so again, I'm gonna, I know I'm repeating myself, but I made a promise that the great Bud Schulberg, yeah,

Speaker 1 I'm gonna get this filming for me on the waterfront is my favorite movie of all time

Speaker 1 of all time. Brando,

Speaker 1 I mean, look, who what actor has done what Brando did in On the Waterfront? I could have been a contender. It's a funny scene where

Speaker 1 in your favorite, one of your favorite films of mine, 20th Hour, where Barry Pepper

Speaker 1 accidentally

Speaker 1 broke Edward Norton's nose.

Speaker 1 For real, yeah. For real.
And so the ambulance is there. The camera's here.
And the ambulance turned, turned the alarm off, the whatever it is, the sign off. So the camera is in front of

Speaker 1 the ambulance. I said, Edward Norton's one, look, give me one more take.
Not one, just meet you, one take.

Speaker 1 Remember how Brando walked after he got beat up? Yeah.

Speaker 1 He was walking up the steps from the thing.

Speaker 1 That's why they want you to walk to the museum. I mean, to

Speaker 1 pass the camera. Yeah.
And as soon as you pass the camera, I'll call Ganamos to get your nose fixed.

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 1 You remember when Brando got beat up in the shed?

Speaker 1 Well, Brando had a weird hold over all the actors from like 1970, probably through Ed Norton, right? But now it's, that's one of the things I always think about with movies and sports.

Speaker 1 Like enough time passes.

Speaker 1 And then if you're

Speaker 1 in that film. Like, do you think like Chalamet has

Speaker 1 Brando played a boxer? Right. I watched a boxer in that film.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I had a Delroy Lindo thing I wanted to bring up before we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Because he's really good in sinners, but he was also really good in your movie. I feel like he's having a blood.
Also, I think he's having a renaissance. Also, he played my father

Speaker 1 in Crooklyn, right? Alfie Wood had played my mother. That film is semi-autobiographical about the leaders growing up.
It's in Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 I was trying trying to think of the sports equivalent of somebody having like the run he's having right now in movies. I'm happy.
The age is at. It's crazy.
I'm happy for him. Yeah, because

Speaker 1 he should have won Oscar for a support actor for the five bloods. That one scene in the film where he's speaking to the camera, going through the junk.

Speaker 1 Awesome in that movie.

Speaker 1 So, what's your next movie? Do you know yet? Don't know yet. And also, to be honest, I know, but I don't talk about stuff before it happens.
I just, for me personally, I think that's a jinx.

Speaker 1 Oh, I see what you mean. So there might be a next movie.
Oh, I'm not done yet. Are you at the point now where you're like,

Speaker 1 mid-April, May, June?

Speaker 1 Probably not filming. I pick dates.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, we got to be going by this date. We're done by like March 29th.

Speaker 1 I have, I have business. Well, here's what they know because I got a, I'm still a teacher.
Yeah. So they let me off.
I have, you know, you have the fall semester and the spring semester.

Speaker 1 So they got to know, well, I'm not going to be teaching.

Speaker 1 So 40 years of Spike movies, what was the one that came out in a way that you look back now and you think

Speaker 1 that's the closest to what I wanted the movie to be?

Speaker 1 Now looking back, the most things went right. I feel the best about this.

Speaker 1 I did my job the best I possibly could have. I would say I've done the best I job.
I would say I've done the best I could

Speaker 1 at that time.

Speaker 1 So you don't think of it that way. There's not one looking back years later, you're like, man, a lot of things went right for that one.
Well, you need 20 things to go right.

Speaker 1 You're absolutely right. To make a movie is one of the hard things known to humankind.
I say mankind, it's a humankind.

Speaker 1 And there's so many things that are out of your control.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, you have one actor that you cast wrong,

Speaker 1 one scene that something got screwed up and the take wasn't what you wanted.

Speaker 1 That's why I said it's the hardest thing known to humankind, I think, as far as you're in the art form.

Speaker 1 So I'm not saying as hard as digging a ditch in a coal mine in West Virginia. I'm not saying that.

Speaker 1 Well, the hardest thing now is going to be to win four straight NBA titles in a row with the second apron. That's the single hardest thing right now.
Well, we'll never see it again.

Speaker 1 Well, as a person, as a Knick fan, and we had it once in the 17-70 17-70 season. We don't have that luxury of having how many rings you got: 17.

Speaker 1 We have 17.

Speaker 1 I'm like the Lakers who lie, they count the five Minneapolis ones. It's bullshit.
Come on, now. Come on.
Can't count that. That was a great rivalry, man.

Speaker 1 It really was.

Speaker 1 We'll see what happens now with the Lakers because they stumbled into one of the five best guys in the league.

Speaker 1 That was not a stumble. Well,

Speaker 1 what's your conspiracy theory? I ain't no stumble. I know a stumble or a stumble, but

Speaker 1 what are you trying to tell us, Spike?

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 who was that? Was that Hogan's Hero? I know nothing.

Speaker 1 Did you like Hogan's Hero growing up? It was a little, it was five years before I was Brady Bunch, Partridge family was my era.

Speaker 1 That was, that was, those are the scenes.

Speaker 1 In Crooklyn, there's a scene

Speaker 1 where

Speaker 1 we used to have

Speaker 1 four siblings. So we had to vote.

Speaker 1 And the Parchers family, Gordy Bunch, were back to back.

Speaker 1 And they came on the same time as the Knicks.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? On W Channel 9. So always got out voted.
That scene is in the movie.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to think like, so what time would that have been?

Speaker 1 What? What time would that have been? So the Knicks came on at 7 and Parcher and Brady Bunch were on at 7 o'clock at night?

Speaker 1 Yeah, 7.30. And 8 o'clock, 8 o'clock, 8 o'clock.
We really didn't have a lot of TV options back then.

Speaker 1 In New York, channel 2,

Speaker 1 4, 5, 7, 9, 11. That was it.
Yeah. That was it.
We had the same. We had six in Boston.

Speaker 1 And that was all we had. All right, Spike.
Look, I want to thank you. And also, you do a great, great job, man.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know sports. You know, even though you're from Boston, you know, you don't try.
What did did Yoda say about the word try?

Speaker 1 I try.

Speaker 1 He didn't say that. Yoda did not say that.

Speaker 1 You know, my brother, what did Yoda say?

Speaker 1 Yoda? Yoda, Star Wars. What did he say? There's no try, dude.

Speaker 1 Anytime one of my students,

Speaker 1 I have a stack, a zero, a stack

Speaker 1 pile.

Speaker 1 Picture Yoda and the quote. Anytime one of my students in class says the word try,

Speaker 1 I slap my fingers, my TA plops, that piece of paper,

Speaker 1 boom.

Speaker 1 That's it. Don't try that word try got to go.
And

Speaker 1 thank you, Mr. Lucas.

Speaker 1 I also want to point out you did this entire podcast with me with the 1986 Celtics finger behind your head. Oh, the self.

Speaker 1 You got me. I got you.
Hey, any sport, Boston in New York is great. Spike, I hope I see you in the playoffs with a healthy Jason Tatum.
You think he's coming back?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Well, look, I don't, as you said,

Speaker 1 this year's the write-off for us. If he comes back, I just hope he didn't come back too soon and hurts it again.
That's the thing.

Speaker 1 We've all written off this year, but I think these guys are really competitive. And if you tell them May, they're going to win.
Let me ask you a question.

Speaker 1 I finally think if I got to go with my next thing, bud.

Speaker 1 What do you think about the Knicks this year? Go, New York, go, New York, go.

Speaker 1 Coming out the East.

Speaker 1 I think if it's a bet your life situation, they're the safest bet.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure I would do the bet, though. I still.
You think the Cavaliers? I still feel like Milwaukee is going to be heard from.

Speaker 1 I know everybody thinks that's crazy.

Speaker 1 I just.

Speaker 1 The name's not even there anymore.

Speaker 1 Having the best guy in the conference, I still value. So I have to mention them.
And then I really want to see Orlando, what those guys look together would be the other one.

Speaker 1 But you have the best chance. All right.
And I don't trust the East, right? I don't trust the Cleveland thing at all, but you could argue that they just had a dumb playoff series. Garland was hurt.

Speaker 1 Indiana made a couple crazy shots, and all of a sudden they got bounced. But that team won 64 games.
So maybe they'll have the eye of the tiger now. Maybe that was like their club or language.

Speaker 1 Let me say so. Let me ask a question.
When New York wins the

Speaker 1 MIG championship, it's not a jinx. I'm just saying.
We win next year.

Speaker 1 I want to be on the show.

Speaker 1 I'm flying the next day. Spike, you're always invited on the show.
Mab, I want to come on a. Since we, we have a

Speaker 1 not all the time. I'm talking about we haven't won since the 72-73 season.
And I want to see, I want to be in this seat. Look at that seat.

Speaker 1 You're always invited.

Speaker 1 Mab, I want to be here the day after

Speaker 1 we win.

Speaker 1 So help me, God.

Speaker 1 That sounds great. You, you bring Shalamay.
What? We can bring Shalamay. We'll figure out your W fan movie.
Good. I'm not.
All right. Good to see you.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Oh, we left us on slow-ups. Oh, we got to keep going.
Last thing. Yeah.
You're watching the film. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And how many times has Boston mentioned this film?

Speaker 1 I'm asking, were you laughing when

Speaker 1 those things happened in the film? First of all, I know going into it, there's going to be Shabshash fired at Boston and the movie set in New York. So I'm just waiting.
So you knew it. I'm waiting.

Speaker 1 So I see Rick Fox.

Speaker 1 You knew those shotguns were coming right now. I knew it was coming.
So I had my bulletproof vest on.

Speaker 1 Bubble barrel. Well, I knew it was coming.
But then I saw Rick Fox and I was like, friendly face. Played with the Celtics for seven years, played with Larry Bird.

Speaker 1 He won't be part of this Boston anti-propaganda. Nope.
Boom. You had him.
Then you had Terturo chanting this Boston sucks in the subway with 50 people.

Speaker 1 You did a third thing, too. There was three different anti-Boston things in there.
I noticed all of them. Well, look, all I can say is.
Listen, you stay true to yourself. That's what makes you you.

Speaker 1 I love Mona's venue.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you.
All right. Thanks so much to Spike Lee.
Thanks to Danny Kelly. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo and Saruti as well.
Good to have Ceruti back.

Speaker 1 Don't forget Rewatchables Rollerball last Monday and then Sinners coming up next Monday. So you have the whole weekend to watch.
It's free on HBO Max. If you get HBO Max, just knock it out.

Speaker 1 A classic, an immediate classic. Anyway, enjoy the weekend and I will see you next week.

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