The Bleakest NBA Team Situations (Next 5 Years) With Ryen Russillo

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Boarshead. You know, one of the best parts of football season? Getting together with friends and family to watch a game in the tasty food.

Speaker 1 And, guys, if Boar's Head isn't on your home gating menu, you're fumbling big time. That'll help you serve the perfect game day spread, premium meats, cheeses, dips, and more.

Speaker 1 Trust me, nothing better than a Boarshead sandwich during halftime. Throw in their blazing buffalo chicken dip.
Delicious. And you may even score an extra point or two.

Speaker 1 Elevate your game day entertaining with Boarshead. Visit your local Boarshead deli for platter options.
Boarshead, committed to craft since 1905.

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by TikTok. Did you know you can use TikTok to connect even more with the sports you love?

Speaker 1 It's not just highlights, it's everything around the game, including the sports community.

Speaker 1 Find breakdowns of classic basketball plays, deep dives on baseball stats, even videos on how athletes train and recover.

Speaker 1 There are people teaching strategy, sports, history, even ways to improve your jump shot. It's kind of like the biggest locker room ever, and everyone's sharing what they know on TikTok.

Speaker 1 The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we do the rewatchables every week, and we are doing Jaws 2 on Monday night.

Speaker 1 We're going to get pretty weird in the month of July. We got to do a Michael Madsen movie.
Our guy, Michael Madsen, passed away.

Speaker 1 So we'll figure that one out. There's a couple of good candidates.
So we're going to do Jaws 2 this Monday. You can find that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well.

Speaker 1 You can find it as a video podcast on Spotify. And then something Madsen-y

Speaker 1 a week later. I have an idea of what I want to do, but I don't want to spoil it yet.
But really loved, really love Madsen.

Speaker 1 Madsen and Seismore, the big two, the bird and magic of the 90s for weird action movie performances.

Speaker 1 So here's the schedule for me. I am going to be going Sundays for the rest of July unless anything crazy happens.

Speaker 1 So every Sunday, night range

Speaker 1 podcast, rewatchables will be on Mondays. And that's probably going to be it for me in July unless my dogs, I don't know if you can hear them barking right now,

Speaker 1 but unless something crazy happens, like a Jalen Brown trade, a LeBron trade, any sort of crazy newsworthy event. So

Speaker 1 adjust your schedules accordingly.

Speaker 1 Coming up on this podcast, we're going to talk to Ryan Rossillo,

Speaker 1 and we're going to do it right after this break and right after Pearl Pearl Jam.

Speaker 1 All right, late afternoon, Sunday, July 4th weekend. Rasillo is here.
Basketball, basically, this is it. We're going away from the NBA.
We got Summer League. I don't really care.
Do you?

Speaker 1 No, I mean, I just seeing clips tonight as I was prepping this out. I'm like,

Speaker 1 I can't do this right now. Somebody sent me a text last night about how Edgecombe looks so much better than Bailey.
And I was like, I need a break. I need a break.
I'm not ready for any of this.

Speaker 1 I do think the Summer League, I'm sure I'll watch some of the clips and stuff. I'm not going to go.

Speaker 1 But I just, I need a break.

Speaker 1 That 17-day finals followed by the draft right after, then all the fridge. So I'm like, all right, I need a reset.
Got to start thinking about NFL. Did you start your prep yet? For NFL? Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, no, no.

Speaker 1 I need a full, like, I was going to go to summer league, and then I realized I'm like, I'm not going to go to summer league.

Speaker 1 110 degrees. It was this unbelievable epiphany because the problem is it's too busy.
It's too popular now. And it's a great setup for families.
It's great for kids. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 If you're a basketball junkie, the cost is great. But now the smaller gym, it's like really hard to find a spot.
And even if you have the media pass, it can be a pain if you're jumping back and forth.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I think a lot of us that have been doing it for a bunch of years, there's different people with teams that you want to say hi to, but I don't blame them for never wanting to talk to us.

Speaker 1 So they're all roped off now. And that's been happening at the Combine.

Speaker 1 So now you end up kind of like sitting by yourself, just watching basketball the whole time and you're not like somebody might wave to you and then a kid in a security jacket's like, what are you doing?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I went to Vegas too many times over the stretch of like F1, Super Bowl, everything that we were doing.

Speaker 1 So I just realized the other day, I was like, hey, you don't have to go. I was like, perfect.
Summer league outgrew itself.

Speaker 1 Now we sound like the two old media guys complaining about traveling somewhere for a fun sporting event, but I'm with you. I don't want any part of it.
And also, it is really hot.

Speaker 1 Like that Vegas hot that it hits in July when you leave the stadium and it's like 1.13.

Speaker 1 It's three in the afternoon. You're just like, why am I here? What is this place? But Cooper flag would be fun.

Speaker 1 I'm sure Trey Johnson will have one heat check if he's there.

Speaker 1 So some stuff happened since the last time we talked.

Speaker 1 The biggest thing is Whitmore Island. Now House is involved because he went to Washington.

Speaker 1 There were were a couple of guys that, you know, there's so many movement back and forth now with its contracts are shorter and just guys, it's almost impossible to get, like all of a sudden, Jay Huff's on Indiana.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, oh, I kind of like that. Whitmore on the Wizards, but Whitmore was one I was watching because

Speaker 1 I'm still all in on that dude. And I think in the right team, in the right situation, that guy is instant offense off the bench.

Speaker 1 I don't know if Washington's the right team or not, but I do like some of the assets they're collecting. We're going to talk about them in a second with a gimmick, but that was one of my favorites.

Speaker 1 Did you have a favorite? Oh, I'm so glad that guy's on that team. Do you have any of those, like the lower level ones? Yeah, I mean, I even post on threads about Jay Huff.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's where you know I'm really like locked in. I like it.
I saw him. I went to go see McClung play

Speaker 1 for the South Bay Lakers.

Speaker 1 So it's a fun Thursday night. Right, but I noticed a lot of Jay Huff.

Speaker 1 And then when Jay Huff was with Memphis, I'm like, you know, this guy might be the prototype of that stretch five everybody's looking at. Maybe not the rip protection on the other side.

Speaker 1 But yeah, when I saw that, Pacers, what they gave up, I'm like, great. Love the Jay Huff acquisition.
Pacers,

Speaker 1 another one. Pacers, yeah, they might be able to patch together some Miles Turner stats.
The Hallburn thing is going to be a little more insurmountable. There's a couple of decent guys left.

Speaker 1 I'm intrigued by Ryan Rollins, seeing where he ends up.

Speaker 1 We're at that level of free inches now where I'm like, I wonder who can snare Ryan Rollins.

Speaker 1 Look, but we should stay on the Cam Whitmore thing for a second because I agree with everything you said, but I don't know if he should be someone you're ever describing as being all in on a guy, right?

Speaker 1 Because I think we kind of know what the downside to him is, too. Yeah.
Right. I mean, if you're talking out of nowhere bench guy

Speaker 1 that could do a little like what Matherin was doing in the in the playoffs a couple of times, I think that's the upside for him.

Speaker 1 The Wizards, I like all the stuff they're doing. There's some teams that I really do not like, which we're going to talk about in a second.
But

Speaker 1 from a big picture standpoint, OKC is the heavy favorites. And then there's a bunch of contenders after that.
And the odds are really interesting.

Speaker 1 Do you know who has the second best odds on FanDuel to win the title right now? Houston. It's the New York Knicks.

Speaker 1 They are now

Speaker 1 plus 750. Yeah, Houston, Denver, and Cleveland are all plus 8.50.
They're 3-4-5.

Speaker 1 And I think that's the consensus top five. Minnesota's 17-1.
I personally would have Minnesota in there as a top six.

Speaker 1 But I think because they lost Alexander Walker and maybe they made conference finals two years in a row, but I still feel like Minnesota should be in that convo. Am I crazy?

Speaker 1 No, this is the overreaction to the new stuff. Because I've seen Houston, I think Houston was second best odds for a little while.
And then the the Knicks. The Knicks,

Speaker 1 Yabaselli, just swung it. And you get that guy as your seventh man.
By the way, Philly, this time it's personal. It was Yabaselli.
He was like, they offered me 2 million.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was like he was like, it's like they wanted me to leave. They were like driving me to the airport, trying to get rid of me.
It was weird. I really like Yabaselli.

Speaker 1 I actually thought he would have been an interesting Laker signing.

Speaker 1 I think the Knicks have done a really good job in

Speaker 1 it was fun for them to be thinking we just need to add like two or three guys that could actually actually play in a top eight rotation for a good team and not have it cost a lot.

Speaker 1 And this is something I was saying with Bobby Marks on Thursday's pod is that. Really good pod, by the way.
Thanks. It feels like

Speaker 1 you're going to love this. You're going to love this.

Speaker 1 The old Belichick free agency period where he was like, go ahead, everybody, spend all your money, spend all your cap space, do your guaranteed $60 million deals.

Speaker 1 We're just going to hang out here in the back.

Speaker 1 Now, I think part of that success we realized, too, was that he was a great defensive coach and Brady fixed all of their offensive limitations but he would shop in this bargain basement because there'd always be all these guys left and you'd be like well how is this guy 20 million guaranteed and this guy's like a 2.7 million dollar guy for like one year with incentives i am wondering if if you're like a pretty good team and granted you're up against it cap wise if the advantage now with everything we're seeing with the first and second aprons is just like hey we can pick off like if you're getting a top eight minutes guy on a good team for free

Speaker 1 right that's And I mean free in the sense of like what free is for an NBA investment, you know, one year less than 10 million.

Speaker 1 I wonder if that's something. I'm wondering if that market is going to be where teams feel like, hey, we can just wait around and grab somebody instead of grabbing our first or second choice.

Speaker 1 There were some stunning salaries. Like I thought, I thought Gary Trent, with some of the stuff he did in the playoffs, had at least earned his way into maybe like a two years, 15, two years, 16.

Speaker 1 The Bucs kind of stole him and brought him back. You know,

Speaker 1 well, I'll save it.

Speaker 1 I have a whole Bucs thing I want to do, but they have been able to patch together some salaries combined with the fact that they got Turner maybe for a little less than I think everybody thought he would go for in free agency.

Speaker 1 And I think they have two moves left, to your point, that it's like this bargain shopping. Maybe you can grab a guy here or there.

Speaker 1 The ones that I don't understand, because I agree with what you said, is when teams are paying like 15 million a year for Schroeder,

Speaker 1 you know, or even like Duncan, one year, 16, and then the second year you have an option, you have to buy it out. But

Speaker 1 that was what I, to me, you don't have to pay double figures for guys that aren't impact starters anymore.

Speaker 1 The market seems to be somewhere between five and 10, or you could trade for a hauser contract. That's what made the nets that Terrence Mann signing so strange or trade.

Speaker 1 It was like, oh, cool, we get Terrence Mann for 46 million for the next three years. Like there, that's just not what the market would be for him if he was in the market.

Speaker 1 You're seeing it it with somebody like Kaminga, too, where teams don't even know.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know if that'll be resolved by the time people hear this, but the Kaminga thing's crazy. That's somebody that over the years would have been at least three for 70.

Speaker 1 Somebody would have taken a fire, and I had no idea what he's going to get.

Speaker 1 That seems a little high, but yeah, you'd think somebody would at least just send out some kind of offer sheet.

Speaker 1 But if Brooklyn, I mean, it was just such a weird summer, too, because it was like, what's Brooklyn going to do? What's Brooklyn going to do? And it's like, well, you know what?

Speaker 1 They're not going to do spend it on a player they want. They're going to take an asset in the man contract, uh, the Porter Jr.
deal.

Speaker 1 You know, I know it's an unprotected and 32 for that, but you know, I was thinking about this. I'm like, Wouldn't you have had to give up a pick just to get off of Porter Jr.

Speaker 1 at like 80 million the next two years? This is going to be one of the things I brought up to you today. What if they had offered, no, what if they had offered Brooklyn,

Speaker 1 here's Michael Porter,

Speaker 1 we'll give you our 2032 first, just absorb him into the cap space.

Speaker 1 Like, do the Nets do that?

Speaker 1 Well, clearly, they would have done it because they gave him Cam Johnson. But that's the thing is, like, did they have to even put Cam Johnson in the trade?

Speaker 1 I just think that trade, the more I thought about it over the last five days, I'm like, that's one of the worst trades of the decade.

Speaker 1 I'm so glad you said it. You have to attach a pick to get rid of Porter.
And I also didn't get anything for Cam Johnson? Nothing?

Speaker 1 Yeah, because that's, see, I'm glad we hadn't talked about this at all because when it happened, it was like, just, oh, yeah, this makes sense. And it's Cam Johnson.

Speaker 1 And then at first, like, I love Cam Johnson way more than I like Porter Jr. Yeah, for a bunch of reasons.
Then he costs half as much.

Speaker 1 And so you're like, what's the Cam Johnson trade if you're trying to acquire a good player? Like, isn't there a piece?

Speaker 1 And then this is classic, like, salary cap dumping for the asset, which is what Brooklyn's whole whole approach was.

Speaker 1 And I just felt like there should have been a second asset with this because they were giving up a player other teams would have liked while also taking on Porter Jr., who had the worst contract.

Speaker 1 So maybe their point is that with Porter Jr., they'll be able to flip him in a year at 40 million and then get an asset on the way back.

Speaker 1 That's the only thing I could fathom them saying

Speaker 1 with the explanation of it all. I thought it was a miracle trade for the Nuggets when it happened.
And the more I thought about it over the last four days, I was thinking like,

Speaker 1 think about over the years, teams adding pick, going back to the Kurt Thomas days, teams adding picks to dump a contract to try to reset their salary structure in some way.

Speaker 1 Porter, I didn't think was tradable unless you took like a Bradley Beal or, you know, 78 million for two years. He's a bad back.
He's a fucked up shoulder.

Speaker 1 I just think he's a 15 to 20 million dollar player. I mean, he was good in the 2023 finals.

Speaker 1 It's not like he hasn't had good moments, but for them, he was a complete impediment to making their roster better because they couldn't touch Murray. They couldn't touch Brown, couldn't touch Jokic.

Speaker 1 And they couldn't touch Gordon. So how else were they going to improve the roster?

Speaker 1 Here comes Brooklyn. They're like, what if we just need one pick and we'll save seven? It's fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 I think they could have taken Porter's thing, gotten a pick, and traded Cam Johnson, and ended up with way more. And I continue to think they did an awful job, like really bad.

Speaker 1 I didn't like their draft. I don't like really any of that.
I don't think they have like an awesome kick-ass asset.

Speaker 1 Their best asset is basically their own pick in 2026, which they traded to get back.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I just don't understand anything they did. They had all that cap space.
I said this to Rob Mahoney on Wednesday.

Speaker 1 They were the guy in the fantasy draft that had $100 to spend with 10 and everybody else ran out of money. They were in the driver's seat in all these different ways.

Speaker 1 I just don't think they exploited it correctly. I don't like what they did.

Speaker 1 Well, it must have been that there just weren't that many teams that were going to give up an asset to also park stuff to get off a cap space.

Speaker 1 But for Denver, it's just perfect for Denver on top of the other things they get to do and bringing it like full circle to the odds.

Speaker 1 Denver should be more of a favorite for an NBA title than Houston should be.

Speaker 1 I said that on Wednesday. That's the team.
No, I just said on Wednesday they were 9-1 on Wednesday. I'm like, that's the best bet.
I think they should have the second best odds.

Speaker 1 I think it'll be 5-1 by the time we start the season. It looks like Mark Stein was reporting that they convinced Valencian's to stay for a year, right?

Speaker 1 It seems like they have one more move that they can make. They're under the apron, so they have flexibility during the season, and they just have a better team.

Speaker 1 Cam Johnson's going to be better for them than Michael Porter was. He's going to be, I just think, a better health bet for

Speaker 1 guy, I think, too. You know, that's my biggest thing with Porter Jr.

Speaker 1 Like, it is impressive, man, when he's 6'10, he's pulling up and he's hitting these shots off the dribble, and you're like, this is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 But then there's just the nights where you're like, oh, I guess this guy's just totally out of it tonight. And

Speaker 1 for somebody who's been in the league as long as he's been in the league, and it is also interesting, too, like when we were going through, and I know you probably spent a good chunk of your Sunday doing what I was doing in preparation for this, but looking at all the extensions, looking at all the contracts.

Speaker 1 And like, the best thing you can be is in that Patrick Williams stretch of like, we're still not sure, but man, we'd hate to be wrong. So here's your 90 million.

Speaker 1 And Porter Jr.

Speaker 1 kills it because it's like, hey, you've been hurt, but God, you're so talented and you're so tall and you're such a good shooter. And we don't really have other moves.

Speaker 1 And we're also kind of cheap sometimes. But like that window of like, look, the best thing is to be awesome and then get the max extension, right?

Speaker 1 Like a K Cunningham or something like that, even though Cade, you know, it took a little bit longer maybe.

Speaker 1 And that's just another reminder we should maybe look at these point guards coming up to the draft and realize, you know, it might take these guys a little bit longer than being the finished like asset that you'd want.

Speaker 1 But when you're like that top pick

Speaker 1 and you don't know, those are the contracts where now you're looking at it going,

Speaker 1 I can't, like you said, Kaminga 70, but like Kaminga might be not even like a full mid-level guy because there's also, it's pretty clear, too.

Speaker 1 I think there's enough teams that look at what Kerr does and what Golden State does. And I'm sure Kaminga, has driven him crazy and his reps crazy there.

Speaker 1 But I don't think Golden State's like hiding this amazing, steady player from the rest of the league either with the way that they've yo-yoed him and out of the lineup.

Speaker 1 He's probably a good stats, bad team guy, ultimately. And there's a lot of guys like that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Giddy's the weirdest one to me because

Speaker 1 I still really like him and he's young. And he's had some success and I think he's competitive.
And I think for the most part, he's a winning player and his shot might get better as he gets older.

Speaker 1 It was really good in the second half. Yeah, it's something to build on, something to be happy about.
I don't know if it's real.

Speaker 1 And they can just play chicken with him now because it's not like there's anybody else coming flying in to get him. All right,

Speaker 1 we have a gimmick we're going to do. We're going to take a break.
And then we have a pretty expansive roster situation gimmick to do here. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.

Speaker 1 Cracking up at a cold one on a hot summer day is one of the best feelings, but it's even better when it feels like you've earned it.

Speaker 1 Like in a little friendly competition, it's always better when there's something worth playing for. Mikelobe Ultra, Superior Light Beer.

Speaker 1 It's a pretty great prize.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to think stuff I would play for this summer. Golf.

Speaker 1 I'd need to have a big handicap for golf. It's really tennis and maybe basketball three-point shooting contests.
And

Speaker 1 I don't know. What's that block blast game? You can play in your iPad.
I would do that. I'd compete against other people in that one.
It's like Tetris for the 2020s. Play for Ultra.

Speaker 1 Fill your fridge with Michel Oboltra this summer at doordash.com. Enjoy responsibly.
Copyright 2025. Anheuser-Busch.
Mikelo Boltra Light Beer. St.
Louis, Missouri. All right, Rosillo.

Speaker 1 Here was the assignment. Next five years,

Speaker 1 worst roster situations for each conference. So we're going to pick a top four and we're going to go through it and try to explain it.

Speaker 1 We We talked about this maybe a month ago when we argued about who does Indiana now have the best roster situation in the East.

Speaker 1 And we went back and forth. You settled on Cleveland.
I was like, I think I like Indiana. I like the flexibility.
They have Halliburton.

Speaker 1 And now you think about that a month later. It's like, oh, no, Indiana, definitely not in the top five now.
I think Cleveland, you'd probably pick.

Speaker 1 But going the other way with the worst, it's a good time to talk about it because we just had free agency.

Speaker 1 I think we have less teams than usual who probably aren't happy with where they are just in the league, and we have too much talent.

Speaker 1 So it's an interesting time to kind of parachute in and figure out in the east first, then we'll do the west. What roster, situation, picks, contracts, assets, everything.

Speaker 1 Who would you not want to be for the rest of the 2020s if you could pick one team? I have mine. What's yours?

Speaker 1 Man,

Speaker 1 just just give me 20 seconds on it because there's like sometimes it's hey, who's the best player on these four bad teams? Because that's kind of the most important part.

Speaker 1 Well, let's talk about that part. So, what do you care the most? So, if you have a great player, does that excuse some of the other stuff that would make you nervous, like the Milwaukee situation?

Speaker 1 Right. Do you have like one player

Speaker 1 because we could do the same thing in the West and I'm gonna get ahead of ourselves because like it's like is it all flexibility? Is it all cap space? Is it all draft assets?

Speaker 1 So, I got to tell you, like, if you're telling me the next, the next four years,

Speaker 1 five years,

Speaker 1 I don't want to be Toronto. I don't want to be Toronto because even though Scotty Barnes is better than some of the other team's best players, it's 38.5 million for him.

Speaker 1 It's 38 million for Brandon Ingram. It's 32.5 million for Quickly.
It's 28 million for RJ Barrett. Purdle, who's fine, you know, 20 million.
That's going to go up with the extension.

Speaker 1 They just extended him for another three. They have five for, he's basically five for 114.
Now, you want to argue last year, Ingram didn't play. RJ didn't crack 60 games.
Pearl didn't crack 60 games.

Speaker 1 Quickly played 33. Scotty Barnes only played 65.

Speaker 1 I think there's some Scotty Barnes numbers that are going in the wrong direction in an alarming way, but I'm not ready to just write him off as like somebody who's going to now, like his best year ever was his second year, and now it's all downhill.

Speaker 1 So that doesn't seem entirely fair. So even though I like Barnes better,

Speaker 1 there's no moves here really for Toronto. And all of these players other than RJ are under contract for the next three years.

Speaker 1 I had them third on my list. I don't like their top five guys.

Speaker 1 I don't like any of their contracts for the top five. And they did that.
So they did that Ingram move where that before the

Speaker 1 trade deadline, they traded some of the stuff they got for the Siakam trade for him. Then they gave him this extension of three years, 120, so 40 a year.

Speaker 1 And then we get to the summer and like Nas Reed's going for 25.

Speaker 1 Miles Turner's going for 24. Like, it's, and now it just feels like they shot their gun in a major way on that one.
And what does Brandon Ingram get in July if they hadn't done that extension?

Speaker 1 They must have been freaked that Ingram was the only like

Speaker 1 big-time scoring wing. But, you know, Ingram's another one of those guys.
He'll get you the 20,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 I just don't know. Like, are you going to get me 20 in a big spot? Are you going to get me 28 in in a big spot if I need you to be the number one scoring option?

Speaker 1 Because there's some times in some big games where I feel like the guy gets pushed around. So I'm thinking Toronto went, there's no good free agents.
And what if Brooklyn goes?

Speaker 1 But that's where you kind of have to go, hey,

Speaker 1 Brooklyn wants to give him another 40 million a year when he's hurt. Right.
Then, then maybe we have to take that risk. You know, I don't know if that's why Masai is not there anymore.

Speaker 1 If they eventually were like, okay, we're paying you $15 million a year to run this team. And now you're spending, they're doing a lot of A-level spending on like B-minus guys.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think,

Speaker 1 did Mahoney say this? Somebody said this on my pod that they are top 12 just for salaries in the league, but you wouldn't say they had a top 12 roster. It's kind of not where you want to be.

Speaker 1 I thought the Ingram thing was an overpay. I wouldn't want to pay Barrett $29 million a year.
Quickly is 32 and a half years or 32 and a half million each year for the next four,

Speaker 1 where in a league where like clarkson's getting bought out and you're just you're callin sexton gets traded for nurkage you have to attach a pick he's making 19 million so you think of that and it's like that contract's awful i i was on the record i didn't like the barnes max extension i understand why they had to do it but he's gonna get it like i don't think he's gonna get

Speaker 1 time for the barns one i get it i mean i just that does make me feel good Right, but as we were talking about, like, the best thing is, is almost that rookie extension, that first rookie extension, because you're like worried you might be wrong.

Speaker 1 Like the Knicks didn't want to do this quickly number now. And then they get OG out.

Speaker 1 Now, I don't know if there's a ton of teams that wanted to pay OG 200 million either because they were afraid of his injury history on top of everything else.

Speaker 1 So, you know, maybe there's an argument here where it's like, hey, you and Bill are completely wrong because this is more stable. You know who your five guys are.

Speaker 1 They didn't even play that many games last year together. For whatever reason.
These five guys together?

Speaker 1 Barnes, Ingram, Quickly, Baird, and Purdle?

Speaker 1 I would say I'd rather, the reason I picked them is I'd rather have worse talent and have more options the next two years. Right.
Because I don't have any options with this.

Speaker 1 Unless Barnes stands a superstar. I like Grady Dick.
I think he's a rotation guy.

Speaker 1 Murray Bowles.

Speaker 1 Can't speak. Murray Boyle.

Speaker 1 Murray Bowles.

Speaker 1 Walter, some people like. Agbaji had some moments.
Agbaji's expensive, too.

Speaker 1 But he had some moments. They have all their their firsts.
I had them third. My number one was Chicago.
I stared at it. They still have this giddy RFA.
This is your least favorite one. Chicago.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Okay.

Speaker 1 Let's do it. I don't love a single guy in their roster.
Maybe Budzellus.

Speaker 1 At gunpoint, I like Budzellas.

Speaker 1 Is he going to make an all-NBA team? I don't know.

Speaker 1 They have $85 million in expirings this season, right? So you think like, oh, look out for the Bulls, summer of 2026. They've just never been that team.
We've never seen it.

Speaker 1 They didn't paid the luxury tax in forever.

Speaker 1 They have all their firsts. I didn't, yeah, it's a small market, big market team.
I didn't like their first round pick this year. I don't know why they didn't make the Derrick Queen.

Speaker 1 The Red Sox are like, what's the issue?

Speaker 1 The Red Sox were like, I like what the Bulls are doing. I thought they should have made the Derek Queen trade.
Move back 11 spots. Get New Orleans' first round pick.
But

Speaker 1 it all depends on which version of the Derrick Queen trade you were offered, is I think what the legendary is. Yeah, we'll never, we'll never know the answer.

Speaker 1 It's like, yeah, we would have done that if we had known it was unprotected, but we'll see. We'll see.
It'll be written in the books. Um, Kobe White's about to be a free agent.
That scares me.

Speaker 1 Like, what, what is his next contract? Uh, that Patrick Williams and Okoro, six,

Speaker 1 four for 72 for Williams, two for 22 for a Coro. They have some expirings, but I just don't know what this team is.
Like, what's

Speaker 1 where am I going the next three years? I know I'm not going to be like a bottom five team next year. Maybe I'll get lucky and win the lottery, but it's just, it just seems bleak to me.

Speaker 1 Who am I selling to my fan? If I'm a Bulls fan, what am I excited about? My owners have already made it very clear to me, we're never going to really spend money.

Speaker 1 I don't think free agents are going to be like, man, I'd love to go to Chicago.

Speaker 1 They've done a shitty job with the Jordan legacy where you never hear a player be like, I want to go to Chicago and reinvigorate the Bulls. That team really meant something.

Speaker 1 I just don't really know what this team is other than a team that's going to go 40 and 42 every year. So that's my number one pick.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this play-in stretch where they just lose to Miami every year. Like, you go through it and you're like, this is, this is kind of the same thing over and over again.

Speaker 1 I think the Giddy trade will turn out to be a good trade for them. You know, at the time, they get killed.
They don't get a draft pick, especially it's OKC. You know, it works for OKC perfectly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we defended him. I think we were in the minority.
Right. But Giddy was also not super popular at the time either.
So it wasn't like there was going to be a bunch of people sticking up for him.

Speaker 1 But yeah, the rest of the roster, I think at least the Bezellous piece, that's kind of what I would look for in this, too. It's like, there's some unknown that's exciting.

Speaker 1 Like, I would give you points for that. And at least Bezellus is in that.
And

Speaker 1 Asenge, if you like what you saw from him in the Bundesliga,

Speaker 1 then

Speaker 1 Fran Frasella just going in on him. I really enjoyed it.
Did you see that?

Speaker 1 Francisco. Every once in a while, Francis goes nuts

Speaker 1 on the foreign players. He was like, here's a guy who quit on his team and played four minutes.

Speaker 1 I did think that was pretty shocking, man, that he would just bail. And then you would heard, all of us had heard about it for like a week.
I'm sure you heard about it too.

Speaker 1 And then no one had said anything. And everybody was like, is he really going to do this? Is he really going to go to the draft while his team is playing for championship?

Speaker 1 And it's like the reason he's coming to the draft is because clearly the team has told him, whichever team it is in the lottery, like, we're taking you and it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 They didn't care that he wasn't going to play.

Speaker 1 If you were GM, would you make promises?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think it's part of it. I know you probably think you wouldn't, but would you do promises with caveats?

Speaker 1 Well, what do you do if you make a promise to him at 12 and then Troy Weaver calls you and says, yo,

Speaker 1 we really want to move up. We'll give you 23 in our unprotected pick next year for number 12.
And you're like, fuck, I made this promise to this French guy. I can't.

Speaker 1 I just wouldn't. I think that's the whole reason you don't do promises.

Speaker 1 Because you never know when Troy Weaver is calling you with some fucking asinine trade that you have to accept.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, that's where you could say, hey, you have a promise unless you know, something comes down the pike. But then I think most GMs would tell you, how many clients does the guy have?

Speaker 1 Right. But what's, but what's the upside of the promise? That if you're worried that he's going to keep working out and then he'll move into the top 10, you won't be able to get him.

Speaker 1 Like, you have to think the guy is incredible at that point.

Speaker 1 They'd have to think he's like a potential all-NBA guy to just lock in on somebody that far away from the job. I just wouldn't do it.
I don't get the upside.

Speaker 1 I've heard about teams going back to the agent going, hey, something changed. Can we get out of the promise?

Speaker 1 And then the teams won't do it if the agent's going to lose a shit about it. I'm sure other stuff has happened.

Speaker 1 I'm sure there's millions of stories I haven't heard. But

Speaker 1 when,

Speaker 1 like, it was funny. There was a guy, there was a team that had a pick, but then their agents were saying that their guy was going there.

Speaker 1 So like, that was one of the rumors, like, two weeks before the draft. It's like, hey, this guy has a lock.
He's promised here. That's what, that's what everybody's saying.

Speaker 1 And then the pick got traded. So it was like, oh, Jesus.

Speaker 1 So either it was a conditional promise, kind of like what we're talking about here, or that guy was just full of shit the whole time and was trying to get people to maybe take the guy even higher than the slot.

Speaker 1 So it's all part of it. I have a little 45-second monologue for you about the Bulls.

Speaker 1 Good.

Speaker 1 So I wrote and podcast about this in the early 2010s when the Warriors were for sale. I can't remember their owner.
I think his name was like Chris Cohen. Wasn't that his name?

Speaker 1 The guy who sold, and he sold to

Speaker 1 Lacob, and the price was high, and people was like 360. And people are like, oh my God, that's a lot.
And I went all in on, I think that's a great deal.

Speaker 1 I think this is one of the best markets in the league. I think their fans really give a shit.

Speaker 1 And this has been a misused, underowned asset that if the right ownership group comes in, they could really turn this into a major thing. You were there in Boston, the early 2000s with the Red Sox,

Speaker 1 when it was just like that, it was this misused, terribly owned asset that everybody thought, like, if somebody can come in and do this correctly, there's this amazing fan base ready to pay any amount of money, and everyone will go to the games.

Speaker 1 Everyone's going to the games anyway. Like, if the right ownership group figures this out, holy shit.
I think the Bulls are like that.

Speaker 1 I think this has been a criminally misused asset for really since Jordan left. When instead of going for the seventh title, they said, Oh, no, we're going to rebuild.
We're smarter than everybody.

Speaker 1 And from that moment on, all they did was cheap out. And

Speaker 1 basically, they're in the third biggest city.

Speaker 1 They're just cashing. all this revenue that you get from being in Chicago.
All these people, these generations of people that grew up on the Jordan's Bowls or remember the great days.

Speaker 1 and so they keep their tickets and just kind of wait for something good to happen and nothing good is going to happen with these owners and i just feel like if i was like a kajillionaire that would be the team i would try to buy because if you can reignite that team and rebuild them and tap into the the jordan dna and pip in and the you know bring those guys back and give jordan a ceremonial position and really like ignite it I think that would be a really special franchise.

Speaker 1 And right now it's not. I think it's the worst situation in the East.
End of monologue

Speaker 1 agree with all of it.

Speaker 1 I do wonder what Jordan's relationship would be because if he wanted to like hang out in the draft room on draft night and have input, I'd be like, hey, Mike, we're not going to do this.

Speaker 1 He's like, let me tell you about the Kwame Brown night. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, hey, man, you can

Speaker 1 have all the gear in the world.

Speaker 1 Smoke some cigars. Blow the smoke over.

Speaker 1 You're allowed to smoke inside.

Speaker 1 You can have a golf cart wherever you want to go. We just don't want a ton of input on draft night based on the scouts.
Just how about this? Here's 5% of the team.

Speaker 1 Just go to some games and be an ambassador for us.

Speaker 1 But I think that's like a seven, $8 billion franchise just sitting there. Chicago is a massive city.
Like, think about what's happened with the Cubs. Think about the Bear.
Think about all the fans.

Speaker 1 Think about all the people we both know from Chicago.

Speaker 1 I just can't believe they're this mediocre every year. So you're on record right now saying you would rather have every other roster situation in the East ahead of Chicago.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I'm including the ownership situation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I just don't, the only thing they have is the potential cap space a year from now, and I don't think they'll give a shit. So I have Chicago one, you have Toronto number one.

Speaker 1 Where'd you have Chicago in your rankings? Were they in top four?

Speaker 1 No, because.

Speaker 1 So who do you have second?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 this is where it becomes kind of like a debate of

Speaker 1 like, is Washington's most valuable asset right now, Trey Johnson.

Speaker 1 That seems a little weird. He's never played.

Speaker 1 And yet we both like everything they're doing. I like everything they're doing, but I mean, I wouldn't

Speaker 1 still a lot of other rosters I would rather have. So you would rather have Chicago's roster and situation over

Speaker 1 Washington's roster and situation. Because I think, to me, no way.
I think that's crazy. I would so much rather be Washton.

Speaker 1 But there's not really, yeah, there's just not a lot on the team, though. Like, you want to sell me on 110 million and expiring contracts next year? Yeah.
Okay. So they just saw Brooks do that.
Right.

Speaker 1 Middleton, Smart Homes, McCollum, Malinik, all expirings. They got Kisbert on a decent contract.
And they have a young nucleus of all guys I kind of like. Saar

Speaker 1 thought he looked a little Sergei

Speaker 1 last year. We both like Trey Johnson, at least worst case scenario, as an awesome heat check guy, right?

Speaker 1 The worst case scenario, he'll be a 25 minutes a game,

Speaker 1 16 points a game, 40% from three. Bub Carrington, I think we both liked.
Kim Whitmore, we both liked. Kulabali, I feel like there's something there.

Speaker 1 I like Kulabali and Bub probably more than any of the players that have played in games for them. Yeah.
I do think

Speaker 1 they do have an edge to them.

Speaker 1 Like there's something kind of fun about them being young and not giving a shit or not knowing any better, where you just would watch a random Washington game late in the season.

Speaker 1 You'd be like, these guys are actually feeling themselves a little bit.

Speaker 1 They have all their firsts. They have a couple of good swaps.
And the big thing, they have the 2030

Speaker 1 with Phoenix. They can swap picks with Phoenix and

Speaker 1 cash in. And that might be a good one.
So the draft pick situation is good. The salary cap for the first time.

Speaker 1 When has Washington had a good salary cap situation? I can't even think of it in the

Speaker 1 last 15 years.

Speaker 1 When they got Gilbert Arenas, was that 20 years ago?

Speaker 1 And I think the guys that run the team know what they're doing.

Speaker 1 I love the guys that run the team. But I do think when you're trying to like gauge rosters going forward, like Saar might actually not be good too.
Would you allow that?

Speaker 1 I mean, is there a chance that Saar is like, oh, that didn't really work? Okay. And then what is Bub?

Speaker 1 And then is Kulabali like an energy guy, or is he a guy that you're like, is there one guy on this team, like the guy who may be getting you tasked with getting you buckets at the end of a game where it's tight?

Speaker 1 Granted, CJ could be there, Middleton, whatever. Who's that on Chicago then?

Speaker 1 Well, I still think Kobe White and Vooch and

Speaker 1 Giddy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like there's that's just for next year, though.

Speaker 1 I well, still, like, there's, it was harder for me to go, hey, 110 in expiring contracts, good draft capital coming in, but the most valuable player is a guy who just went six in the draft two weeks ago.

Speaker 1 Like, that was hard for me to choose that. Yeah, that's fair.
Over, like, I'm not telling you I love everybody on the Bulls either.

Speaker 1 We're in agreement, but I think there has to be something instead of like, hey, there's a couple guys that are actually like good and have played multiple years on that team. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Would you rather have Washington's roster or the Nets' roster?

Speaker 1 I had the Nets second on my list of situations I wouldn't want to have.

Speaker 1 And I know they have a bunch of fun picks.

Speaker 1 They have, so they got Porter and Terrence Mann for 54 and 56 million combined next two years.

Speaker 1 Claxton's their one tradable asset.

Speaker 1 I don't really love a single young guy on this team.

Speaker 1 I don't even know if you asked me who my favorite Net is.

Speaker 1 I don't know what my answer would be. I guess Nick Claxton.

Speaker 1 That seems like a weird favorite player.

Speaker 1 Who would you have as the best Nets asset? Who's the one you're driving at home about thinking like, that's our guy? He'll be on the side of Barclays someday. Isn't it Cam Thomas's scoring?

Speaker 1 I know. You can't believe I just complimented Cam Thomas.
No. So they have all their firsts.
They have a top eight 2027 Philly pick. They can trade nine future picks.
They have a good, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they have three Knicks first, 27, 29, and 31. And the only bad thing is they have a swap with Houston in 27 where they lose the first.

Speaker 1 And one of the things about just throwing a season away,

Speaker 1 we just saw this happen in the lottery. It doesn't necessarily guarantee anything because they changed these lottery ads.

Speaker 1 You saw Utah and Washington throw seasons away and get the fifth and sixth picks. So when you hear about Brooklyn, they they don't want to be good next year.

Speaker 1 It's like, I don't know if they realize that doesn't guarantee Jack shit anymore. Cool, you'll get the fifth pick in the draft.
Like, I don't know. At some point,

Speaker 1 I'd rather have some combination of maybe some young building blocks, and I'm going to be bad anyway, just because there's so many good teams in the league, or as much cap space as they're like in no man's land.

Speaker 1 I just, I don't understand what they did with all the cap space, where they basically turned all of their cap space into Porter and Terrence Mann.

Speaker 1 I thought it was really stupid and lost Cam Johnson somehow.

Speaker 1 My guess is they canvassed it. That was the best they could do, the unprotected, but I don't understand how they didn't get two assets because they did two things that helped the other team.

Speaker 1 So we're just saying the same thing over here again.

Speaker 1 But the problem is they're coming off of using five first-round draft picks. And there are a lot of teams that were like,

Speaker 1 if you were to say, hey, you get five swings in this range, like you would have never thought that you were going to come up with those five players. And who knows?

Speaker 1 There's plenty of stuff that's wrong with the draft. But Winhorse was even saying for Winhorse to share that other GMs were laughing during the night at what the Nets were doing.

Speaker 1 So you combine all of this together. It's like, okay, so you picked up a couple picks here, but your starting five is Jaeger.
It's Cam if he's healthy. That's your backcourt.

Speaker 1 Zyre, who they will have at small forward, MPJ Power Ford. And yeah, Claxton's like

Speaker 1 20 million. It's a declining contract.
He's still young. That was kind of a weird thing because it seemed like they didn't really want to pay him, but they didn't want to lose the asset for nothing.

Speaker 1 And then it's just all of these other guys.

Speaker 1 Well, why not trade Claxton at this point?

Speaker 1 If you're down this far down the road, Trade Claxton, the Lakers or whoever and

Speaker 1 try to pick up a couple more assets. Out of eight Aiton.
I just think using CavSpace

Speaker 1 and Cam Johnson to end up with Porter in one pick was insane. That was my second, that was my number two roster situation I wouldn't want to be.
So you had them third?

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 I like Washington's situation better than the Nets. So let me

Speaker 1 if I'm doing this. So you have Brooklyn second.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so I'm going Toronto, Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 But this whole exercise, as I was doing it, I was kind of like, well, this doesn't feel, feel fair to Toronto if I'm qualifying like, hey, Chicago has a bunch of good, but I just don't like how expensive Toronto is for the next three years.

Speaker 1 We have no rules, it's just how you feel. This is a, how do I feel in my gut with these rosters?

Speaker 1 You think if the Nets called in some hypothetical and called the Wizards and said, you can have everything we have.

Speaker 1 We'll swap situations. Totally swap situations.
Wizards are saying no 10 out of 10 times. Wizards hanging up.
Okay. We agree.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So I had Toronto third. I had one team ahead of of Washington in the number four spot, and it surprised me.
And

Speaker 1 I'm sure it's going to lead to some vitriol coming my way over the next 24 hours. Can't wait for that.
Don't tell me you picked Miami. I did.
No way.

Speaker 1 I did.

Speaker 1 I flirted with it, but I was like, I can't.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I liked some of the things they did, but

Speaker 1 they have this hero extension coming that I'm just on pins and needles waiting to see how bad that contract is. I think, especially when you've seen seen these numbers drop, anything over

Speaker 1 what

Speaker 1 year one hero number,

Speaker 1 what number do you immediately start going like this? Like the 40? Yeah, I think north of 40, you're like, why do you have to do this? 39?

Speaker 1 Well, what are the numbers? Well, I'm just saying year one, year one of the hero extension. So if it's in the 37 range, you're feeling half decent.

Speaker 1 Let's say it's 37, 39, 41, 43, 45 you're that's basically 200 million bucks five years 200 he could do a four-year 207

Speaker 1 like i don't know just

Speaker 1 that's where you just go no or we don't have to do that like thanks for the buckets man

Speaker 1 he's really good scorer you can't do that no that immediately would be a top five worst contract and i like hero and i think he's a very fun offensive player but that's you can't Bam's 37 this year, 51, 55, 59.

Speaker 1 Wiggins is 28 and 30. They just gave Mitchell, I was okay with that, 11 and 12 for the next two.
They have Rogier as an expiring. Young players, Ware, Jake is, Yakashunas, Jovich.

Speaker 1 The alarming thing is their 27 first goes to Charlotte,

Speaker 1 and that's just unprotected.

Speaker 1 That makes me nervous. And I think what really makes me nervous with this roster is I'm not sure

Speaker 1 if they pay Hero,

Speaker 1 I'm not sure how you get to the late 2020s with a move. And I know they pulled a rabbit out of the hat.
I'm always scared of the heat.

Speaker 1 Some of the shit they've done, like convincing Portland to take Hassan Whiteside, somehow ending up with Jimmy Butler, like getting LeBron and Bosch, like they've been able to do it over the years, but at some point.

Speaker 1 The past is the past and the future is the future. I don't know how you go up a level with this roster.
I don't know what the miracle move is.

Speaker 1 As much as I like Bam, there's probably a conversation about him being 51, 55, and 60 million.

Speaker 1 Like, is he that guy?

Speaker 1 And then you compare, like, that's where the hero extension seems even nastier because I probably like hero more now than I ever have because I think the shot making is that special, but it's pretty one-dimensional.

Speaker 1 And, you know, there's, if there's not somebody else to hide him defensively, it's a disaster, as we've seen in the last two playoff rounds. I mean, they got smoked.

Speaker 1 He was hunted, I think, as voraciously as any player in the East. And they did it with the Celtics in that matchup last year.

Speaker 1 They had, because they had to put the better defender on Tatum, ended up with Jalen Brown being guarded by Hero. You're like, oh my God, this is, and you still had like some zombie heat stuff.

Speaker 1 So if you're going.

Speaker 1 50, that's just a lot, like 101, 105 million with Bam and Hero as your, as your top two guys.

Speaker 1 And that kind of gets back to like, hey, we're not a friend, you know, depending on whatever team you are, we're not afraid to spend, but it's like, how are you spending on your top three guys?

Speaker 1 That's, that's way too much for those two guys. And I, and I actually like both players.

Speaker 1 But yeah, it's a problem when I like Bam and Hero too, but when you just levitate above it and you go, all right, what's my ceiling with? Bam and Hero are my two best, most expensive players.

Speaker 1 What am I winning? And the answer is nothing. It's funny.
LeBron is in this situation right now in the Lakers. LeBron, like the, we talked about last week about those Rich Paul.

Speaker 1 LeBron wants to compete for titles.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well, you have a team that has Luka Doncic on it, who's probably the best young offensive superstar that has come into the league.

Speaker 1 That's a non-center in a long time and who's one of the best seven guys in the league. You have.

Speaker 1 Role players. You have a good coach.
You were a three seed last year.

Speaker 1 You're not a title contender. Could part of that be that you're paying LeBron $53 million and he's 41 and you have to get nine months out of him? I think that's a piece of it.

Speaker 1 You know, so at some point, like, can you win a title if Luca, LeBron, and Reeves are your three best players in most of your salary cap? And LeBron seems to think maybe not,

Speaker 1 but he's

Speaker 1 part of the issue because of what they're paying him. And it's the same thing with Miami.
Like, if you have Bam and Hero, I just, I don't know what the ceiling is. Round two?

Speaker 1 Yeah, at best. I mean, that's why they were looking at Durant, although I guess they backed off on it this summer.

Speaker 1 Then that weekend

Speaker 1 floated around for Rui and then all these other Lakers pieces. And I'm like, I'd rather have Rui than Wiggins.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I didn't understand. What was that? Like Rui and Vinson and some other stuff.
So anyway, poor

Speaker 1 connect. That poor kid just hasn't been able to unpack his bags for months.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's in a motel eight. So I have Miami fourth.
Who else did you have in your top four? Did you put Charlotte in there? I put Charlotte in there.

Speaker 1 You know, they won 19 games last year,

Speaker 1 third lowest in the league. They have a million players on the books, by the way, too.

Speaker 1 It is a shocking spot track. Yeah, it's unique.

Speaker 1 Oh, I forgot they have Josh Green. Oh, there's Grant Williams.

Speaker 1 And so if you look at Lamello, he's 38, 41, 43.5, 46.5.

Speaker 1 He's played 105 games the last three years. And then with Mello, Bridges, Sexton's expiring, Josh Green, Grant Williams, Miller, they're all the next two years except for Sexton.

Speaker 1 And again, Miller's not in an extension yet. So you could talk me into, hey, Miller's nice.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 maybe they killed it in the draft with Knipple.

Speaker 1 and getting back in at the end of the first round. But this, Charlotte is in my top four as I would rather have Miami, because at least if I'm paying Bam and Hero,

Speaker 1 I'm paying guys that I know aren't top tier, but I like, I don't think I have to worry about them, where I think Mello

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 unless it changes, and this isn't exactly new, but I think the franchise is somewhat held hostage to somebody who was really dynamic and fun and a fan favorite.

Speaker 1 And it's like, all right, we kind of have something here. And it's like, yeah, but you you may have something that's like a worthwhile attraction

Speaker 1 that is also getting in the way of who you can be as a basketball team.

Speaker 1 And if I were running a team that had to deal with that, like that's the stuff where I just think it's like, we're not making basketball decisions here. We're making like entertainment decisions.

Speaker 1 But if Charlotte called Miami and said, well, J.D. Lamello for hero, I think Miami's cool.
We'll call it in.

Speaker 1 Yeah, maybe. I mean, he doesn't, he misses a ton of games.
So even if you love him. So, I mean, if you were Charlotte and they called Pat Riley and said, do you want our situation?

Speaker 1 I was going to ask you that. If Charlotte calls Pat Riley and said, we'll flip everything, every player we have and all the draft picks we have for your entire situation,

Speaker 1 I think Miami says yes. You do? I do.
I think it's a better situation. I get Lamello.
I get Brandon Miller. I get Knipple.
I get Bridges on a decent deal. Maybe that's a long guy.

Speaker 1 Sexton. I I get all these picks.
I get a Dallas first. I have some calf space.

Speaker 1 I think I'd rather have that situation.

Speaker 1 I think I talked about this on the pod with you already, but I really like all the stuff Charlotte did, where they're basically like just these little slight upgrade deals, you know, like, all right, we'll take, we'll help you out with Conaton and you can take Meetich and buy him out and

Speaker 1 we'll take some stuff with that. But, you know, nothing, nothing major, but just kind of smart.
Just seems like the boat's rowing in the right direction finally finally for them.

Speaker 1 Took a while, but it only took the entire decade. All right, teams.

Speaker 1 Well, the membership. I think it's a smarter, much smarter group.
And everybody would tell you the front office owners and Charles Lee. So it was going to take a little while for you to feel it.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I think the Lamello decision

Speaker 1 is a big one. We'll see.

Speaker 1 Maybe he's just healthy and plays well and there's more talent around him and it all kind of works out because that'd be cool too because there's a lot of people that love him down there.

Speaker 1 Two honorable mentions for me were Milwaukee and Indiana. And I'm not willing to panic about Indiana.
I just think it's going to be one bad year for them, but they do have their first-round pick.

Speaker 1 They do have a bunch of guys on good contracts. They have a great coach, winning pedigree.
Halburn should be back in a year and whatever.

Speaker 1 So Milwaukee, just quickly, because I think that didn't make the top five for me. And I'm already on the record as just how stupefied I was by the damn thing and everything they did.
And

Speaker 1 it's interesting though. The Bucs fans, for the most part, seem like

Speaker 1 they're fully supportive of what they did with Giannis. And I was trying, I was really trying to look at it from the other side because

Speaker 1 my instincts on it were so against it. And I thought it was just so crazy because if you're going to do everything they did,

Speaker 1 but not lock down. Oh, they did all this stuff.
They now have no outs whatsoever, but now they're the second best team in the East. Like, you could get it.

Speaker 1 They still have, I think, the eighth best odds on Fandu in the East.

Speaker 1 Eighth in the East. Eighth in the East.
That's nuts. They're 20 to one in the East.

Speaker 1 So if you're going to do counters,

Speaker 1 I guess it looks like this. Giannis doesn't want to go and they don't want to lose Giannis.
So they have a two-year window with him. And then he's got the player option.

Speaker 1 So they're basically looking at it like, these next two years, like this dame thing fucked us.

Speaker 1 We have to figure this out. We don't want to trade Giannis.

Speaker 1 What can we do? So they save $14 million and $13 million for those first two years with the Dame Turner thing. Right.
So you can be like, okay, that's good. That's positive.

Speaker 1 We've saved money, even though we're paying out of our ass on the back way.

Speaker 1 Turner on paper is a good center for Giannis, right? Can shoot threes shop-wide. Their defense is going to be good.

Speaker 1 They really hurt the Pacers, which I think they hate the Pacers. So I'm sure that was like a fun thing for them.

Speaker 1 One thing I was thinking, and maybe I should have thought about this a few days ago, but I think we both think Turner would have been a, maybe a third.

Speaker 1 If you're talking about overpaying Turner, maybe it's 130 for four years. I wouldn't have blinked if that was the number, right?

Speaker 1 I would have been like, whoa, that's high, but I kind of thought it was going to be around there. So they get him like 5 million a year cheaper.

Speaker 1 The East is wide open.

Speaker 1 And you mentioned this on the pod with Bobby that with the cap jumping 7% to 10% every year, maybe there is a little bit more of an NFL mentality where it's like, all right, we're going to lose 22 million a year, but the cap's going to go up.

Speaker 1 Like by the time we get to year five, maybe that's not that dangerous anyway. But the big thing is, if you did nothing, you throw away a Giannis here.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I really tried to see it from their side. I never would have done this.
And I just want to make that clear again.

Speaker 1 But I understand, like, they're just, they're so far all in that at this point, it's like, well, everyone's getting fired anyway. If this doesn't work out, we might as well try this.

Speaker 1 I still wouldn't have done it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 My first thing on it was like

Speaker 1 just knowing the pacers, because we had even mentioned this, I think, just in passing.

Speaker 1 We didn't really dig into it, but I was like, I wonder if the Halliburton injury will be an excuse for that Pacers ownership group to then not pay the tax again.

Speaker 1 Even though they had flipped the 25 pick for the 26, you looked at it, like, hey, that's a pretty smart kind of heady deal.

Speaker 1 And it maybe means like they're going to go into the tax a little bit, but I don't know how the revenue split breaks down because, like, even going in the tax a little bit, then when you officially become a tax-paying team, I know back in the day, it was like you're sacrificing millions.

Speaker 1 Um, but you would have thought, hey, they can't do this, right? They can't just a week and a half after being eliminated in game seven to the finals, they can't just let Turner go.

Speaker 1 And then the more I thought about it, the more I actually was like,

Speaker 1 The only thing that impressed me about it was that Turner and his reps were able to pull this off, that they were able to find cap space for him that didn't exist

Speaker 1 through the stretch revision. Because

Speaker 1 it reminds me a bit, like, I remember when the Vooch trade was done to Chicago, and a front office guy who's really good, we were talking about the trade, and he said, you know, I just have,

Speaker 1 I think a good rule is if you're giving up those kinds of assets, and they're giving up two firsts, right? And they're giving up Wendell. And that was, that was a lot to give up for Vooche.

Speaker 1 Wendell went to first.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you're like, if you're going to do that kind of deal,

Speaker 1 you have to be able to say, like, okay, we go from a first round exit to like a second round exit, or maybe, you know, we, we have the third best chance of being in the Eastern Conference Finals, right?

Speaker 1 We're not one, we're not two, but like, could we sit here and be realistic about it and say, hey, we'll, we'll be in.

Speaker 1 the top three of the East with this investment. And it's like, when you look at the Fuchs deal, you go, yeah, we're probably the same team.

Speaker 1 We're probably the same team ceiling-wise of what we can be in the East in the playoffs, despite, you know, Vucci, who puts up some numbers, in theory, stretches of Florida, all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 This deal felt like it reminded me of that, where it's like, okay, what were we before?

Speaker 1 And now, what do we guarantee ourselves? Like, how much is the ceiling actually improved? Even though Turner's better than Brooke Lopez at this stage of their careers, there's an argument.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's an argument to be made. It's like, you may not have guaranteed yourself advancing at all in the East.

Speaker 1 And that's

Speaker 1 it's a tough one.

Speaker 1 I don't, I think the dame thing

Speaker 1 combined with the situation they were in with Giannis. They didn't have the luxury of what the Celtics did, but I just,

Speaker 1 when you look at their picks, which is the other piece of that, where they basically don't control any of their picks the next five years, they kind of don't have a choice at that point.

Speaker 1 Right. We're just like, well, what are we going to do? So hopefully Milesturner is awesome for us.
Hopefully we can patch together. I mean, if they got your guy CP

Speaker 1 for a year,

Speaker 1 not inconceivable.

Speaker 1 We'll see.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're going to take a break and then we're going to do the West. This episode is brought to you by Built.
Renting can have benefits, especially if you use Built.

Speaker 1 Built is a rewards program designed for renters, letting you earn more from what's probably your largest monthly expense.

Speaker 1 By paying rent through Built, you earn flexible points that can be redeemed through hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, and more.

Speaker 1 Built also makes your entire neighborhood more rewarding. By simply eating at your favorite local restaurants or going to certain fitness studios, you can earn additional points.

Speaker 1 So maybe finally, you can take your family in that dream vacation you've been putting off. Get more from your renting experience, sign up at joinbuilt.com/slash bill.

Speaker 1 That's j-o-i-n-b-i-l-t dot com slash bill. This episode is brought to you by Black Friday Game Day on Prime.

Speaker 1 It's Bill Simmons, Black Friday Game Day coming to Prime, and it will be an epic day of live sports.

Speaker 1 Black Friday football at the center of it all with the Chicago Bears taking on the Philadelphia Eagles at 3 p.m. Eastern.
This might be an actual round one playoff game.

Speaker 1 That's followed by the final night at Emirates NBA Cup group play

Speaker 1 and a doubleheader starting with the Bucs and Knicks at 7 p.m. Giannis in New York again.
And the Mavericks and Lakers at 10 p.m. Boy, I wish those two teams had a history.

Speaker 1 The whole day starts with the return of the Capital One Skins game as four league PGA golfers face off with $4 million in the line.

Speaker 1 Black Friday game day tees off with the Capital One Skins game at 9 a.m. Eastern before the Big Bears Eagles football game at 3 p.m.

Speaker 1 And it all culminates with a double dose of Emirates NBA Cup action featuring Bucks Knicks at 7 p.m. and Mavs Lakers at 10 p.m.
only on Prime. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market.

Speaker 1 At Whole Foods Market, you'll find great everyday prices for this Thanksgiving. Check out their 365 brand.

Speaker 1 No antibiotics ever turkeys start at $149 a pound with Prime with Organic Birds at $299 a pound. You'll find Thanksgiving essentials like condensed soups.
I love those.

Speaker 1 Instant mashed potatoes, like those too. Organic baking spices plus low prices on everything else you need from fresh produce to frozen appetizers.

Speaker 1 Enjoy so many ways to save on your Thanksgiving spread at Whole Foods Market Terms Apply. All right, the West.
The number one is a little easier in the West.

Speaker 1 I would assume we have the same number one. A team owned by the one, the only Matt Ishbia, Matt with one T.

Speaker 1 I am going to ask you if this is the bleakest situation since the mid-2010s Brooklyn Nets after Procrowv's like, let's do 180.

Speaker 1 I know we don't have any picks, but I don't want to spend money anymore.

Speaker 1 Is this the worst situation since then?

Speaker 1 I don't think it's that bad. Is it?

Speaker 1 You still have Booker locking up.

Speaker 1 All of their picks are gone or swapped until 2031.

Speaker 1 And that pick's gone too, I think.

Speaker 1 That goes to Utah.

Speaker 1 They have Booker lockdown. They're going to buy Beal out, apparently, in the next 24 hours for some crazy price.

Speaker 1 Jalen Green, three for 105. I don't think either of us would want to pay that.
Brooks for two years.

Speaker 1 Grayson Allen and Rose O'Neal in double figures for the next couple years. They have the two Charlotte centers,

Speaker 1 and they're going to be paying Booker like $75 million a year on a new extension.

Speaker 1 And then probably, what, nine months from now, he's going to be like, hey, guys, can you send me to a winning team now? I don't know.

Speaker 1 He seems to be like totally into the Phoenix thing. So I don't know.

Speaker 1 I can't predict how he's going to feel other than he's felt like a really good partner as the face of a franchise as opposed to some other guys.

Speaker 1 They're going to be a lottery team without a pick, and I don't see any path forward. I don't, I mean, Maliuch,

Speaker 1 Maliach would have to be

Speaker 1 like a revelation for me to feel better about this situation.

Speaker 1 Like a revelation. But we're like, holy shit, this is like watching Ewing in Georgetown.

Speaker 1 This is like, give up the 85 Ewing highlights. He's back.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that would be a little surprising. Although,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 I did like him.

Speaker 1 I liked him too. Yeah, this is just one of those, it's back to the no-outs thing.
Like, Booker's still better. Booker's better than anyone on Utah.
Booker's better than anybody on Portland.

Speaker 1 Booker's better than anybody on New Orleans.

Speaker 1 San Antonio, you know, that's probably not a conversation just because of what we think of Wemby. But it's

Speaker 1 the only argument you have here is

Speaker 1 Booker's talent level then surrounded by no options, and it's expensive.

Speaker 1 Who do we have number two?

Speaker 1 Sacramento. I had them as well.

Speaker 1 I don't know that you realize how bad it is until you go through the exercise. I was stunned.
Yeah. So it's Levine and Sabonis are a cool 90 million.

Speaker 1 And then 94 in a year from now. Yeah, like Miami fans should be going, well, at least we're not doing that with Bam Hero, right?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you've got Sabonis, Levine, DeRosen, who, you know, look, DeRosen at 25 and 28 million is fine. Like a guy just seems to age really well.

Speaker 1 Monks at like 40 million the next two years, but it's 133.5 million for those four guys this year. It's 142.5 million next year for those four guys.

Speaker 1 Then here's Dennis Schroeder for three for 44. Let's throw him in there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, when at the time, though, I would have rather done that deal than the Laverte deal because I just think Schroeder can find ways to help in multiple ways. But it's just not a very exciting team.

Speaker 1 You have, I think,

Speaker 1 the least winning top paid player on a team, a guy that, I mean, none of this is, again, new on my Levine stuff, but that's

Speaker 1 a team that is fucked.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 and Keegan Murray, who they're going to have to make a decision on on an extension at some point.

Speaker 1 And I just feel like he's gotten worse the last two years where they felt like there was something there. I'm not seeing it.
They have, they have their own first.

Speaker 1 They have a mini 2031 and they have a top eight San Antonio first. So they have stuff to trade.

Speaker 1 There was Zach floated this out a couple of times, that this seemed like a possible Jalen Brown overpay team.

Speaker 1 I still feel like if you're going to make the, if we're going to do an overpay, who's most likely to just do a complete crazy overpay trade fantasy draft, I think I would have them first because they're, they're like Chicago and no man's land, but they don't want to be in no man's land and they're ready to do stuff.

Speaker 1 I just don't think the opportunity has presented itself, but uh,

Speaker 1 it's a weird one. I just don't like their roster.
I don't like the guys together and they don't really have a lot of outs with it.

Speaker 1 You know, the DeRosen contract last year made sense when they did it, but now,

Speaker 1 you know, if you called Atlanta and you said, hey, you want to take DeRosen in your trade exception? I just don't think Atlanta would do it.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 yeah, I had them second as well. I'm sure they can move DeRosan if they want to, because I still think DeRosan, like, I cannot believe how productive he still is.

Speaker 1 It'll, but it's would you do it for Norm Powell?

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 you know, I think Norm, I'd probably, I'd probably rather pay Norm because he's younger, and I would give cheaper his, I would say, his injury stuff last year is what derailed what was like an insane start for him.

Speaker 1 So, uh,

Speaker 1 and Norm's a better shooter from three. Yeah, I'd rather have Norm too.
Who'd you have for your third team?

Speaker 1 This, I thought number three was tough. It was pretty clear that Phoenix was one and Sacramento was two.

Speaker 1 And then third, I thought, uh, I thought was a hard one.

Speaker 1 See, the way you're going with this, I feel like you're going to say Pelicans now.

Speaker 1 Wow, you know me. You know me so well.

Speaker 1 That's who I had. All right, so give me the Pelicans' argument.

Speaker 1 It's a team of assets that I like

Speaker 1 that make no sense together. I don't think they're going to be good next year, and they don't have their pick.

Speaker 1 And I think my favorite asset of everybody to have is Troy Murphy

Speaker 1 at four for 112. Curb Jones, two for 29.

Speaker 1 I said Troy Murphy. Trey Murphy.
Sorry, Trey. Trey Murphy.
Remember Troy Murphy?

Speaker 1 My dad always enjoyed

Speaker 1 his cap hold is still. My dad always enjoyed Troy Murphy.
Trey Murphy, four for 112. Jones, two for 29.

Speaker 1 They have Queen and Fierce and Hawkins and Missy.

Speaker 1 You know, some good young talent. Murray coming back up in Achilles.
They have Jordan Poole for two years for reasons that remain unclear. And then this weird Zion situation.

Speaker 1 And it's like they're zigging and Zagging at the same time. By trading your pick, you're telling us you think you can compete for a top six playoff spot.

Speaker 1 And yet, looking at the West, I don't see any chance that happens.

Speaker 1 I like a bunch of the guys, so

Speaker 1 you're saying this is third worst.

Speaker 1 It's more a reflection of the West than them, because I don't think they would be top five worst than the East. Right, but like, let's just play it out.
Why is this worse than Utah?

Speaker 1 Because all those picks Utah has combined with.

Speaker 1 They have two firsts out of their own, Minnesota and Cleveland in 27, 29. They've got a Lakers top four protected 27.
They've got the unprotected Phoenix 31.

Speaker 1 They've got a swap with Minnesota or Cleveland in 28.

Speaker 1 Another swap, or excuse me, in 26, and then another Cleveland slop in 28.

Speaker 1 It's weird, I guess I'm factoring in, like, Utah knows what they're doing more. Maybe that shouldn't factor into this.
Okay, but if we're going, like, through the Utah players,

Speaker 1 so you'd rather have the New Orleans players and the Utah Picks,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 Who's the best asset? Give me the three best assets on Utah.

Speaker 1 Marking and

Speaker 1 okay,

Speaker 1 probably Ace Bailey, just because of where they picked picked him. Right.
We're back to the Washington thing. Kessler.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it gets bleak fast. Hendrix Clayton Jr.

Speaker 1 Well, New Orleans has two cap killer assets in

Speaker 1 Murray coming off of his injury. And then Jordan Poole, who they willingly traded for

Speaker 1 for $66 million for two years. They were like, sure.

Speaker 1 And they have a bunch of young players. I actually think the way they built their roster is going to be counterproductive because it's too many guys and none of them have really proven anything.

Speaker 1 So you have all these different assets. Like Trey Murphy is going to be like, I'm ready to have an awesome year and be discussed in a real way.

Speaker 1 Herb Jones is like, I'm ready to do all Herb Jones things on a good team. Zion has been in the league now six years.

Speaker 1 When is the Zion, hey guys, I'm laying the SmackDown. I don't know what to make of this team.

Speaker 1 Zion is in

Speaker 1 his career, it's just always worth reminding everybody this. 24 games, 61 games, zero games, 29 games, 70 games where he got hurt in the play-in against the Lakers when he had 40.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then 30 games last year. So it's a lot like the Lamello thing where you have this thing and you're like, okay, but you're just waiting around.
for him.

Speaker 1 I mean, if he's healthy somewhere, honestly, if he's healthy somewhere else and puts up some big numbers, then so be it.

Speaker 1 There is a New Orleans stink that is, it's hard to separate it from the situation.

Speaker 1 Because being in New Orleans, with how dysfunctional that organization and city and ownership has been year after year after year, if you just basically took all this stuff and put it with a better infrastructure and everything around it, you might be in better shape.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 you know, it's just year after year in that city

Speaker 1 with the, with the,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 i don't know i mean you read that the piece this week about

Speaker 1 you called atlanta kept asking them over and over again

Speaker 1 so it's an unprotected pick right and they're like yeah yeah it's unprotected it's like just one more time it's unprotected right like you hear stuff like that like holy

Speaker 1 how does how does this team even suit up 82 times how do they even coordinate the travel correctly and these are the good guys

Speaker 1 these are the new guys so Yeah, but it's basically Weavers running the team for Dumars. And Weaver, like, I don't think could have done a worse job for the Pistons.
Could he have done a worse job?

Speaker 1 I'm not. If that was one of those, like, I'm not positive that guy was going to get another job.

Speaker 1 All right. So who'd you have third if it was New Orleans? You had Utah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I like Trey, Herb,

Speaker 1 and the potential of Zion.

Speaker 1 It's a 383B.

Speaker 1 that would be an interesting one, though. I think Utah would probably say, we're fine.
We have all of these picks. We,

Speaker 1 you know, if Taylor Hendricks turns out to be something,

Speaker 1 Clayton or Keontae turn into something,

Speaker 1 maybe. I mean, you know.
It's a good argument.

Speaker 1 I think those are the three and four in some order. And then

Speaker 1 I couldn't believe I had this team in the top five, but I kind of ran out of teams because the West is,

Speaker 1 but I think it's it's the Clippers.

Speaker 1 I think they have to be fifth.

Speaker 1 Even though I think that's a

Speaker 1 potential round three playoff team this year. But I just like big picture:

Speaker 1 Kawhi for two more years, 50 and 50. They're paying Kawhi and Harden 90 and 92.

Speaker 1 They pal and Bogdanovich on expirings. That's about it.
Not a lot of leverage with the roster.

Speaker 1 They have some

Speaker 1 couple positive positive pick stuff and a couple lousy pick stuff, including a Philly swap, their 28 goes to Philly, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 They do have 26 million on the cap in 27, 28. Listen, in the East, they wouldn't even sniff the top five, but I was just trying to think of like what situation could potentially just go badly.

Speaker 1 And you have to go them or Golden State. Because Golden State is basically this two-year runway now.

Speaker 1 They're on the cap in the summer of 27. They'll have $23 million in players in the cap.

Speaker 1 So they're open for business in all these ways, but that could also go horribly, you know, and maybe short term, it might not even go.

Speaker 1 So it's one of those two, I think, in that spot because I can't put Portland. I like the Portland five-year situation over both of those teams.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I went through and did Portland stuff.

Speaker 1 You know, Grant's toll in the books are 32, 34 million the next two years, and you forget he's on the team. But I think between

Speaker 1 like if you

Speaker 1 didn't like the Drew contract either, Drew, three for 100, basically, and then the grain. Yeah, I was honestly, I was shocked that they did that.
But

Speaker 1 you might be right. It's starting to look worse now that we've seen some of the free agent money that

Speaker 1 Drew's going to make that with some of the other prices that guys got. Maybe that I might have been wrong on that one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but you kind of were right because they got an asset out of it where I thought that's clearly a pick and a dump. I would have thought they were going to have to attach a pick to it.

Speaker 1 And then the Celtics are just super confident. Like they did a really good job canvassing the market.

Speaker 1 You had heard they've got a landing spot for this guy, but if they don't need to do it that way, they could do this thing first.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, they got out of a ton of money and saved themselves a ton of money and they still have the flexibility back. Like, I think Niang's a rotation guy and a good team.

Speaker 1 I think Simons allows you to get creative, or you could just say, why don't you score some points?

Speaker 1 I don't know what they're going to do with him, but you could see see them having like an okay season where he's scoring a ton off the bench and they're just like, look, you're a scorer.

Speaker 1 You can find a bunch of shots. So look, I think if you go through Portland stuff, you go, okay.

Speaker 1 The picks are where it gets really good. Sharp feels like a nice, like,

Speaker 1 maybe Denny's looked like he's going to be good. I think Scoot took a step in the right direction, still needs to be better for him to match kind of our excitement.
Kamara, I love Klingen.

Speaker 1 You know, I don't know if Chris Murray's getting the world excited about it, but there's at least like among the five new guys that are in there,

Speaker 1 there's kind of some hope where even with some of these other teams that are bad, you can't, you've probably given up on three of three of the six or seven young guys already,

Speaker 1 if that makes any sense.

Speaker 1 They have Milwaukee swaps in 28 and 30.

Speaker 1 They can keep the best version of Boston or Milwaukee in 29. They have all their own picks.
It's pretty good. And

Speaker 1 I think they're they're going to be a really interesting,

Speaker 1 wouldn't be shocked if they went like 47 and 35 type of team this year, just because I think their defense is going to be really good.

Speaker 1 And it's going to hinge on our guy

Speaker 1 with a ton of Scootstock. It's going to hinge on how good offensively he can be for them.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I kind of like the team. I think they have an identity.

Speaker 1 I think that's a really hard thing to do when you're a lottery team to build a type of group of players that seem like they actually fit together, which I don't think New Orleans has.

Speaker 1 It'll be interesting, though, because there was one number that showed kind of an outlier opposing three-point percentage in the second half.

Speaker 1 And that may, every now and then, you'll see some weird like outlier opposing three-point percentage where you go, oh, that's what happened.

Speaker 1 Like, were they really good defensively or did they just get really lucky and opponents makes? So that'd be something that I'm like looking for the first few months of next season.

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Apple Watch. Real talk for a second.
You think you're crushing it with sleep? You're getting eight hours, you're doing everything right, feeling great about it.

Speaker 1 Well, using the Apple Watch is kind of like checking game film, it breaks it all down for you: sleep duration, bedtime consistency, interruptions, gives you a play-by-play of exactly what happened while you slept.

Speaker 1 No questions asked. My wife has been on this from the get-go.
She's studying, it's like the all-22 in NFL.

Speaker 1 You tweak a few things, cut back on late caffeine, maybe actually go to bed when you say well, boom, you might actually start waking up feeling rested.

Speaker 1 Apple Watch helps you figure out your sleep so you're not flying blind anymore. And you can find out more at apple.com slash Apple Watch Series 11.

Speaker 1 iPhone 11 or later required. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Spectrum Business.
Without internet, you wouldn't be able to hear my beautiful voice right now.

Speaker 1 And businesses wouldn't be able to stay connected the way they need. So what if I told you you can get free business internet forever with Spectrum Business?

Speaker 1 Just add four mobile lines, get business internet, advanced Wi-Fi, and Security Shield for free, for life. No contracts, no added fees.

Speaker 1 All you have to do to find out how you can get free Spectrum business internet forever at spectrum.com/slash free for life. That's where you go.
Restrictions apply.

Speaker 1 Service is not available in all areas.

Speaker 1 Would you rather be Golden State or the Quippers the next five years?

Speaker 1 Golden State.

Speaker 1 Because you get short-term Curry, long-term cap space. Curry's the best partner in his era in basketball.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I don't have to worry about the bullshit that you have to worry about with everybody else. You know, I agree.
The only other team I looked at was Memphis just because

Speaker 1 they gave Jaron that extension. He immediately got hurt.

Speaker 1 John Morant. Just shows how much he's built different, though.
He's just out grinding. Yeah, exactly.
On sanctioned hoops. John Morant, no idea what to expect with him.
Contracts are fine.

Speaker 1 I like some of their young guys. They have all their first, plus the Orlando first, so they didn't

Speaker 1 make it. And then I did look at the Lakers situation for a second just because

Speaker 1 not when you have one of the three best. It's kind of the Giannis thing in Milwaukee.
Like, it can be a mess. And granted, the Lakers' future met, but

Speaker 1 there has to be some point of these conversations. We look at each other and go, oh, you have one of the three best players in the world.

Speaker 1 But here's why I paused. He is,

Speaker 1 he is, uh,

Speaker 1 does not have an extension yet.

Speaker 1 It's the only thing that made me pause. How happy are you going to be if he decides to sign somewhere else?

Speaker 1 I don't see any scenario where that happens, but right. I also, if I was a Laker fan, I

Speaker 1 would be sleeping with one eye open until it happens. Who knows?

Speaker 1 There's going to be a lot of teams with cap space.

Speaker 1 Because now that

Speaker 1 everyone's figured out this system, I mean, one of the things I just think the way they, and we've been talking about it for two years, but they do the, they change these CBAs and they immediately put in the new rules and these teams who have been doing whatever they've been doing.

Speaker 1 And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, the rules have changed. It's like, okay, cool.

Speaker 1 Well, we didn't know that when we made all the decisions we've made the last two years, like the Celtics, some other teams.

Speaker 1 But I think by the time we get to 26, 27, everyone's going to have a feel for, all right, if I create cap space and I do this and I can make, so he, he's, that could be a really good free agent sweepstakes.

Speaker 1 My assumption is he'll sign an extension in August. I'd be shocked if he didn't,

Speaker 1 but who knows?

Speaker 1 Would it be like a wild card

Speaker 1 round for the Pats or Red Sox if Luca didn't sign? That's not on the level of a banner, right?

Speaker 1 So would I trade the Pats couldn't make the playoffs for five years if but Luca leaves the Lakers. Would I take that? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I think I'd go three years.

Speaker 1 Five's a lot. Five's like a half decade.
I'm old. Because you're still so mad that they got him, which is totally understandable.

Speaker 1 There's been some benefits, though. It definitely created one of the most bizarre LeBron situations.

Speaker 1 I think that's been pretty fun. I still don't really get the LeBron thing, you know, because I think it's actually as simple as it needs to be on its surface.

Speaker 1 It's like, so you were mad, you didn't get the extension, so you opted in. So there was nothing else for you to do.
There was nowhere for you to make that money. And now,

Speaker 1 what? Like, somebody's going to hear from you about it? I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 That one's still a weird deal a week later. I think it's as simple as this.

Speaker 1 He is the best NBA player ever to be in a situation like this where he's on somebody else's team.

Speaker 1 I think it's really that simple. Like if I go through

Speaker 1 the best guys of all time

Speaker 1 that I have, you know, going

Speaker 1 down from

Speaker 1 like Jordan was never in the situation.

Speaker 1 Bill Russell never. Kareem never.
Magic never. Bird never.
Duncan never.

Speaker 1 Will Chamberlain

Speaker 1 got traded twice, but even near the end, like they won the title in 72. He was on the Lakers.
He went to the ABA. Like, he was always controlling his own destiny.
Curry, Kobe,

Speaker 1 Jerry West.

Speaker 1 You finally get to like Hakeem is like the first great guy who was like, oh, shit, my team doesn't really seem like they want to build around me and

Speaker 1 have it be my team anymore. So I think that's a really hard thing to deal with.
It's been in the league 23 years.

Speaker 1 From the moment Luca showed up, and then it was like, Luca, Luca, Luca, and there's jerseys in the thing, and they're changing their style on the fly to kind of fit what Luca does.

Speaker 1 I don't know if he's a huge fan.

Speaker 1 You could kind of see it. You went to a bunch of Laker games.
There were moments where he was like, All right, I guess I'll stand over here and Luca's going to do the

Speaker 1 dribble the ball a lot and then shoot thing.

Speaker 1 So I think it's a hard thing to get used to because it's like the Doug Collins quote where Doug Collins was always like, the hardest thing to coach is

Speaker 1 a generational superstar.

Speaker 1 when they're getting old. It's the hardest thing to coach.

Speaker 1 So, you know,

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't know what the right situation is for him.
That's the weird thing. Like he was playing basketball in the Cleveland gym

Speaker 1 the other day. And yeah, I guess he does that every year.
It was a non-story, but it was also like the timing of it was suspicious because he takes this Instagram.

Speaker 1 So I don't know. I don't know how it plays out.

Speaker 1 He's not getting bought out. I'll tell you that much.

Speaker 1 But I think the part, it's like, can you not understand why somebody wouldn't want to do like another $54 million option that you control for next year

Speaker 1 at 42 years old? Like, could

Speaker 1 no, hey,

Speaker 1 we can't keep maxing you

Speaker 1 off of that number and then have you be in control of it. So, you know, could could you understand that at all?

Speaker 1 And I don't, I don't think guys that are this special at stuff, they don't, they wouldn't, they wouldn't. Well, you made the key point with Bobby when you were saying

Speaker 1 this is just something LeBron chose to do it this way as a, as an employee of a team to keep people in constant suspense whether he was going to stay or go, because he felt like

Speaker 1 by never really fully committing long-term, it constantly put pressure on the front office to, we got to do this or he might leave.

Speaker 1 This goes all the way back to the first Cleveland run when you first started

Speaker 1 six. Right, like really paying attention and it felt like he and rich paul enjoyed well it wasn't rich initially it was i mean you're going this is like yeah good one

Speaker 1 but it it played out after that uh even with miami but it was it was like they wanted

Speaker 1 you as ownership in the front office to always feel anxiety

Speaker 1 And I would argue, I think at some point that gets in the way of the partnership. Yeah.
Because it would just lead to some resentment. Or maybe it didn't.

Speaker 1 You know, I mean, you know, the guy made a million NBA finals.

Speaker 1 So maybe the art, but I just, I was a little surprised that it was like 25, 26. I was like, we're going to do this one more time.

Speaker 1 Well, it was weird on the Lakers because they basically did everything he wanted for years, right? They did the Davis trade.

Speaker 1 got rid of every young guy they had. They mortgaged all these picks and they knew

Speaker 1 the West deal.

Speaker 1 They try to pretend the westbrook deal wasn't what they wanted um you know they drafted his son they brought in redick you know there's there's maybe a move here or there that they didn't do but for the most part the coaches have changed a lot yeah it's not like they've been fighting him in every turn like those guys wanted vogel out of there and they got you know but they the reason the vogel thing didn't work is because he was trying to figure out to make the westbrook thing work and the westbrook thing wasn't going to work a million different ways and then lebron and that camp try to distance themselves from the Westbrook thing, being like, yeah, we didn't want him either.

Speaker 1 And you're like, that's not true.

Speaker 1 And then,

Speaker 1 you know, Darvin Hamm comes in and they can't get rid of him quick enough. And so

Speaker 1 I don't know. I just, I wonder if you could ever have like an honest moment with him.
Be like, you know, like people have kind of done what you've wanted to all the time.

Speaker 1 Do you find things that you think they're doing?

Speaker 1 The only time I can remember is the summer of 2017 when he wanted the Cavs to trade everything, even though everybody knew he was going to go to LA in a year.

Speaker 1 And the Cavs are the one team that are like, fuck this. We're not going to do that.
Commit to an extension and we'll go for this. We'll go for Paul George.

Speaker 1 But it was like a lottery pick for like DeAndre Jordan for a shot at that point.

Speaker 1 And you were going, like, what? And then, I mean, even the Shabazz Napier thing, Miami ends up taking him. I was thinking about the alternate universe.

Speaker 1 So let's say he opts out. I can't believe we're talking about LeBron.
The ESPN producers are making us do this.

Speaker 1 He opts out. We can't make fun of them next time because we're

Speaker 1 just at least we're doing it at the end of the podcast. He opts out, right? June 30th.
He's like, I'm out. I'm done with the Los Angeles Lakers.

Speaker 1 So it's 53 million, but you'd think like California taxes,

Speaker 1 agent fee. So maybe he's pocketing

Speaker 1 24 million, right? So let's say he goes to Dallas.

Speaker 1 What would Dallas be able to pay him? Like 8.8 for one year?

Speaker 1 Yeah, which is the D'Angelo Russell deal.

Speaker 1 Right. He goes to D.
Yeah. So he gets 8.8, no state taxes in Dallas.
Maybe he pockets five.

Speaker 1 So he's cost himself 20 million, but now he's on Dallas on this awesome team, potentially, going for the fifth ring.

Speaker 1 Could he have made the money back?

Speaker 1 Would that have been worth it? Like he's supposedly a billionaire. Like,

Speaker 1 I don't know. Would that have been? I wonder if he regrets the way this played out, going,

Speaker 1 oh, man, I actually should have opted out. That would have been the baller move to be like, fuck it, I'm going to bet on myself.
I'm going to go in. I'm going to pick my team.

Speaker 1 I'm going to make this a, or he goes to Golden State, right? Golden State has some cap space to send some free agents, or there's some sign in trade, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 I wonder if he regrets not opting out. Because I think that would have been a smarter move, even though it was, you know, you can't tell somebody, well,

Speaker 1 passing up X amount of money, but I wonder if he would have been able to make it back.

Speaker 1 But what's making it back for him? You know, this is one of those things where the mistake is like, why wouldn't you just opt out of it?

Speaker 1 I mean, after this past year and then the next year at 52 million, like I'm just looking at it real quick here again, that's going to put him at 580 million in career earnings.

Speaker 1 Just for NBA, 90% doesn't talk about all the off-the-court stuff. Right.
So

Speaker 1 if you were pissed enough about what just went down because it was sort of a weird press release like yeah yeah is what we're doing it wasn't sort of a weird press release it was weird it was weird it was weird yeah we didn't even really know how to talk about it a week ago because i was like we got to do something about this and we were kind of like we didn't really know what it was but we knew it was something

Speaker 1 yeah so if

Speaker 1 You know, that's the part where you're just not going to have any sympathy for them because I'm not, I wouldn't tell anybody like, yeah, you should have cost yourself 40 million and then you factor in the taxes.

Speaker 1 Maybe it's 35 million, whatever. You should have done that if that was your main priority.
But now it's like, okay, well, you can't say anything.

Speaker 1 Like, you can't be upset about anything because you could have had all the freedom you wanted.

Speaker 1 You could have gone anywhere you wanted, and you weren't going to do that because you didn't want to sacrifice the massive contract number. And so, you know, there you go.

Speaker 1 Like, it wasn't like they had the team option and they picked it up. You decided to do this.
So, Tom, Tom Brady went to Tampa,

Speaker 1 and I don't, he wasn't full price, but it wasn't like what the situation LeBron would have been in, where LeBron would have like taken a major discount to go to a contender.

Speaker 1 But you could argue, like, if you get that fifth ring

Speaker 1 and you were a big part of a team, or if you went to Cleveland or wherever,

Speaker 1 um,

Speaker 1 maybe that would have been worth it. I don't know.

Speaker 1 At some point, he's made so much money. What is the difference?

Speaker 1 I have $1.7 billion versus 1.6 million seven hundred and eighty thousand dollars like i don't know

Speaker 1 because that whatever the situation is now like let's play it out

Speaker 1 there's going to be the lakers haven't said anything for a week we haven't heard anything from anybody we haven't heard the new owner the old owner we haven't heard anything from jj polinka said nothing Nobody's even done like a passive aggressive fight back of like, dude, he opted in.

Speaker 1 We expected him to be here in training camp. He says he wants to be on the Lakers.

Speaker 1 Well, he's on the Lakers and he's the one who asked for the no trade clause. And he's the one, like, we expect to see him on October 1st.
I don't know what the problem is.

Speaker 1 He's Luka Doncic on his team. We got DeAndre Aiden.
Like,

Speaker 1 we were the third three-seed in the West last year. What's the problem?

Speaker 1 But nobody said that.

Speaker 1 I just

Speaker 1 hope he understands he can't send

Speaker 1 the eyes looking at something emoji before the trade deadline.

Speaker 1 And my guess is that he's probably still going to do something cryptic later on. And you're just like, hey, man, the rules are different now.
Like it's

Speaker 1 you're, if you want a multi-year deal, I'm sure plenty of teams would do it, but it's not going to be at 50 million.

Speaker 1 What would be the most amazing?

Speaker 1 I'm trying to think how this would be more fun from a content standpoint. And wouldn't it be Luca being like,

Speaker 1 it's my team now? He's got to learn how to fit in, or like, Luka kind of

Speaker 1 puffing the chest out.

Speaker 1 You know, he's 17 years older than I am. At some point, you've got to recognize that

Speaker 1 it's a different generation of players moving in, or just some sort of thing that would be like, oh,

Speaker 1 selfishly, maybe LeBron for Jalen Brown.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 I would ask to come on twice that week with you. You would just say, can we do a 24-hour pod?

Speaker 1 Well, that's the other thing. Bobby made the point on your pod that I don't even know what is legal with a trade anymore.
These rules are so confusing.

Speaker 1 You know, I was wondering, like, is could you just trade Jimmy Butler for LeBron? Their salaries are almost exactly the same. Apparently, you can't.

Speaker 1 No, Jimmy Butler. He just can't.

Speaker 1 Well, Bobby, Bobby was just so good this week, man. So I really appreciate you liking that pod because we got done and I went, God, he fucking killed it today.

Speaker 1 And Bobby was joking that he wanted to have like pre-recorded sounders for us because that we just press a button.

Speaker 1 Oh, that triggers a second apron. Zach might not need it.

Speaker 1 Is there an AI, Bobby? Could we do AI?

Speaker 1 That should be

Speaker 1 that he invents. And you can just download all my sound bites where he's just like, that would put you in the first apron.

Speaker 1 But since it's aggregated, you know, he just, but then again we'd have to know that that was happening live as you were bullshitting about all these different things but the the best point the one that you were going to make there is that poor bobby gets aggregated by espn by saying there's no market for lebron then goes on to explain why there's no market for lebron but looks nobody can trade for him Yeah, it looks really bad when you've got one of your most plugged in guys saying, but it's kind of back to the Cleveland thing that we were talking about last week.

Speaker 1 And we should probably finish this topic at this point because I don't know how much more I have left on it is that as great as as he continues to be this late in his career, I can't give up multi-year assets for a guy that like I get, I get when you're in your prime and you're not an awesome partner for a team, but I can't have you north of 40 fucking with me like you're 28.

Speaker 1 Like, hey, what do you want to do next year? What would you like to do? Do you want, okay, all right, you want to keep, you want to keep everything?

Speaker 1 All right, so that means if we're paying you this, we're paying Luca this, and we got to worry about the extension of Luca and then Austin, the whole thing.

Speaker 1 Chances are we're not like they were lucky to be able to even get Aiden. Okay, like, I don't even think that's necessarily like a bad team next year.
Um, well, you know what it is:

Speaker 1 it's a Bill Duffy team. Saw little agent changing the guard, too.
The Duffy guys are coming in to the Lakers.

Speaker 1 Clutch had their seven-year run. Now, now it's Bill Duffy's time.
KCP in a one-year 20-something.

Speaker 1 The eighth thing happened after I did my pod on Wednesday. You got to talk about on Thursday.
I just like,

Speaker 1 there's no more fascinating center you could throw on the Lakers with LeBron and with Luca that where there's more scenarios at play. I just, I thought he was

Speaker 1 really tough to take in Portland. And the Phoenix people clearly had enough of him.
And we've, I've, I've followed the NBA enough with my life that usually

Speaker 1 guys who show a certain set of behavior for season after season, it doesn't just miraculously change when they're 27.

Speaker 1 With all that said, the guy puts up points and rebounds, and they can't, they needed somebody who can just go 15 to 10 every game.

Speaker 1 You know, it's he even having him not giving a shit in the Minnesota series last year still would have been better than what they had. Absolutely.
That's it.

Speaker 1 If he can actually give a shit for three of the seven games of a series, it's still three more than whatever they had before. So I didn't mind it.

Speaker 1 We'll see if LeBron can resurrect him. He was able to resurrect J.R.
Smith.

Speaker 1 There was there were some

Speaker 1 distressed assets that he was able to pull stuff out of.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it'll happen with Aiton, but it was certainly a better outcome than I think

Speaker 1 what we were looking at when you were looking at the free agent centers. You're like,

Speaker 1 oh,

Speaker 1 it's a total win. And I'm going to give Lakers

Speaker 1 media.

Speaker 1 I went looking for the pieces, I went looking for the pro Aiton new stop there. He's going to feed off Aluca.
He's going to feed off LeBron.

Speaker 1 JJ's always loved his skill set, the founding of the skills. That would have been a fun skill set.

Speaker 1 There's still a chance that it happens, but I went looking for it this week to hate read it. And I was going to be so entertained by being like, you're just talking yourself.

Speaker 1 And it's credit to all the low. I went through a lot of Lakers stuff, locally sourced blogs.
Good media. Good media group.
really

Speaker 1 great work out of you restrain everybody yeah congrats nobody doing that one thing I didn't read one delusional Ayton thing which I was disappointed by I was hoping to be entertained and it wasn't even out there so good job nobody writing the once upon a time a guy named Robert Parrish was traded to the Boston Celtics Much maligned for his work ethic, a lot like DeAndre Ayton,

Speaker 1 and he became a hall of famer. I like there was some stuff floating around about how DeAndre and Luca, because they were in the same draft and DeAndre had had some positive Luca comments.
And

Speaker 1 I actually think it's not an awesome offensive basketball fit for how he plays. With, I think,

Speaker 1 just hypothetically, whatever you LeBron. He's less of a lob guy and he's more of a

Speaker 1 lob guy.

Speaker 1 Yes. Now, can you just say, hey, dude, have you looked in the mirror recently? Just, can you go catch some of these lobs from Luca?

Speaker 1 Yeah, can we show you a tape of a hundred lobs that you dunked over the course of your career you and i were on i think

Speaker 1 we we had probably more patience for him than most because we really respected that finals run that he had and some of the stuff he did defensively it's in there but those are the kind of guys that break your hearts because you know it's in there because every time i read and look the

Speaker 1 The signings now are reading like press releases from the agencies. And this has been going on for a long time.

Speaker 1 And I understand why we do it or why we have it because the agent wants to get his name in there on the transaction.

Speaker 1 And then, when the agent is the one doing the favor to the insider, so I can't even really get mad at the insiders.

Speaker 1 But, like, you'll go through and just want to read a story about a guy signing somewhere. Like, hey, what could I not be thinking of? Something that I missed.

Speaker 1 You know, like, I haven't been watching every single eight and game his entire career.

Speaker 1 And then you run through the ones that come out, and they're all, you can tell they're like written by the agency. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And by the time you're done with the eight and one, you're like, holy shit, this guy's amazing and then

Speaker 1 you could how many the only 19 guys ever average 15 and 10 their first six seasons whoa yeah there's there's some number that's like he's the first guy or he's one of only like seven guys to start their career 10 and 10 which you know is still a pretty impressive rebounding number it's not impressive scoring number but there was about three or four lines in one of the stories that i'd read about him and you get done with like the last portion of it and you're thinking i can't believe this guy was available.

Speaker 1 He's 26. And you're like, what a date.
Like, think about everything that you just read. Steal.
And that Portland was still like, we're good. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Paragraph 12 is Portland paid him $25 million to go away at 26 years old.

Speaker 1 And they have a defensive identity.

Speaker 1 But even Chauncey was like, please.

Speaker 1 So yeah,

Speaker 1 they got him. I really like the Loravia.
I, as you know, like Loravia.

Speaker 1 I don't know if he would have been my number one target in free agency, but I do like him. I think he's going to play for them.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 all the Laker fans who were telling us all summer they were going to trade Reeves for a center, like, as always, like, okay, here's a list of the centers. Who are you getting?

Speaker 1 And unless you're going to try to trade him for Nick Claxton, which I don't, I wouldn't recommend.

Speaker 1 The centers don't really exist.

Speaker 1 Anyway, all right, that's it for us.

Speaker 1 You're so

Speaker 1 both both of us are kind of cutting back this summer, but you will be on the Braveheart Rewatchables at some point this summer. You promised.
Yeah, I promised.

Speaker 1 I just don't know if that's an on-location one where I'll be because we're already off to a rough start,

Speaker 1 unfortunately, on some of the planning. But that's okay.

Speaker 1 All good things. Nothing to complain about.

Speaker 1 All right. Is that Braveheart? I'd be thrilled to do that because I just had those three Scots on that are rowing from Peru to Sydney.

Speaker 1 And one of the questions that I had prepped up was, do you guys watch Braveheart regularly during the tough days? Because they're on like day 90 now. Jesus.

Speaker 1 Well, maybe we do a Twitter poll. Would you rather hear Rosillo on a Braveheart rewatchables or Casablanca?

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 Fantasy said he would waive his $53 million.

Speaker 1 Player option and sign for the vet minimum if we did Casablanca. I gotta be, I'm not doing this as like fake humble.
I want you three to do Casablanca, and I don't want to be on it.

Speaker 1 I think you guys are so fucking good that I

Speaker 1 just don't think, I don't think it makes sense for me to come on and make my jokes and be a dick about some things.

Speaker 1 I don't want to get in the way. Maybe African Queen, you come on?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I could do African Queen. I loved that movie when I was a kid.
I was like, this Bogart guy's got something. Bogart and Hepburn.

Speaker 1 What a combo.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It just, that boat had its challenges.
I mean, that's, I didn't even realize how passionate I would be about nautical stuff.

Speaker 1 How's the boat going to make it?

Speaker 1 Rousseau, good to see you. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well.
New rewatchables coming tomorrow. We did JAWS 2.
So stay tuned for that.

Speaker 1 And you're not going to see me on this podcast till next Sunday. So enjoy the rest of the week.

Speaker 1 say

Speaker 1 I don't have

Speaker 1 a feeling

Speaker 1 must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president DC gambling problem call 100 gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-88-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

Speaker 1 Hope is here visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text Hope NY in New York.