SGA’s Game 2 Masterpiece, Summer NBA Chaos Watch, McDavid’s Cup Quest, and ‘Tires’ With Ryen Russillo

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This was a pretty good sports weekend.

We didn't just have game two of the NBA finals that I'm about to talk about with

Ryan Rossillo in one second, but we had an awesome French Open.

I don't know whether it was because they switched channels with the French Open or what happened, but

the women's, the

French lady making the semis was great.

Coco wins in the finals.

And then today, five center, five and a half hours.

Alcarez comes back, beats center.

Uh, really great drama with that.

We had UFC last night.

We had Money in the Bank,

WWE, that happened.

Red Sox Yankees, just when it looked like the Red Sox season was over, they sucked me back in.

And then we had the NBA Finals as well.

So we're hitting, we're hitting.

hitting June here.

NBA Finals, we'll see if this can end up being an awesome series.

Game one was awesome.

Game two wasn't as awesome, but there were a lot of lessons.

We're going to talk about that as well as a bunch of NBA predictions for what's going to happen the rest of June because it's starting to get a little action-packed here, but it's all next.

We're going to take a break.

We're going to bring in Pearl Jam.

And then Ryan Rossillo, Sunday night, next.

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All right, Sunday night, just watch game two, Indiana OKC.

I'm sorry, Rosillo.

I thought that might actually be a good game.

I was all excited to just

say, like, holy shit, we're on pace for an amazing series.

And all of a sudden, halfway through the second quarter, that game slipped away.

And that was it.

Indiana got the game they wanted.

One and one, heading back to Indiana for game three.

But what's your big takeaway from that one?

Masterful game from SGA.

I mean, this was the full display of his ability, of his understanding, his smarts, his efficiency.

I mean, the stuff that he was doing, he was just in control of the whole thing.

And

it was just so like functional.

You know, that's the difference.

Like, I enjoy the visual of of ant more than i do sga i've never for a second thought ant was a better player than sga but like this is the part where it's just so much of the focus on what he's doing dictating things getting empty on the left side going if you're going to double me i'm going to do this to you if you do this i'm going to do this and it was like every single move he made was was just the right one he was awesome yeah sga was the takeaway i actually felt like they didn't talk about him enough on the broadcast because

to me no it just that was i thought i thought they they could have done five, six more minutes on this guy's just dominating the pacers.

They seem fixated on Halbert not taking control offensively.

I thought OKC won this game offensively.

Um, you know, they were, they controlled the rebounding in this game.

Last game, they didn't.

SJ was the best player in the court by far.

They got a really good uh Dort game and they got a really good Caruso game.

And then some Wiggins threes.

And that's just like that's OKC has had 30 games that looked like that during the course of the season.

SJ is awesome.

Three roll guys step up.

They get a couple defensive patches.

And

I got to say, I didn't mind how Halliburton played.

I know sometimes it looks a little dicey when you look at the box score at halftime and you're like, ah, why isn't he asserting himself?

But I think he's one of those guys that just makes the right play a lot.

And the way OKC was defending him, the people that are throwing at him, you know, he's just not going to dribble into two guys.

He's not going to try to take 24 footers with two hands in his face, you know, in the second quarter of a game.

He feels it out.

He

almost attacks the game like a hockey player.

And, you know, he ramped it up in the fourth quarter.

But I certainly didn't think he was the reason they lost.

Did you?

I wouldn't put him in the top five.

Well, I think he's in the top five.

You put him top five?

I would not.

I mean, five.

You can come up with five reasons why the Pacers lost this before Halloween.

They couldn't stop.

Yeah.

Couldn't stop SGA.

Role players

couldn't shoot.

Second quarter, what was it, 33-27?

And all of a sudden, OKC blew the game open when he was on the bench.

I thought they didn't control the boards in the same way.

And

I really thought they were going to get something from Matherin in this game, and they didn't again.

And the Matt, what did Matherin?

McConnell had 11.

Matherin

14, but most of those were when the game was pretty much done.

And then Toppin just had three.

Toppin was one for eight.

So they couldn't get the bench guys to really get going in the same way.

I don't know.

OKC was going to win this game.

It was an easy bet.

That was why the line was 11.5 heading in there.

But I don't know.

So you thought there was some blame on Halliburn?

Yeah.

I mean, I think it's 180 and he has two baskets.

So, I mean, the way that we've started to talk about Halliburton, the expectations that you're not going to be invisible offensively.

And I think you're right that, you know, it's in the past, we talk about like, hey, where's this guy?

and then everything just kind of goes crazy in the playoffs with with how much we adjust some of the ceilings on the players um

and we know that he is he is fully capable of just not having a great scoring game but to your point being very in control of everything that's happening and making the right decisions everything

but he just wasn't aggressive at all like when he finally had that second make the game basically felt like it was over anyway and it was um that might have been the third make but it was just a simple like handoff and then he runs his guy into the handoff for the screen and just gets a little bit of of momentum going towards the hoop and hits this floater.

You're like, all right, you know, where's how hard is it to do that a few more times earlier on?

I do think with OKC's defense, you know, I'm crediting the Pacers and Halliburton and Carlisle for using him off the ball instead of just doing this straight, hey, we're going to do this thing over and over and over again, right at you.

And it then becomes easy to defend, especially against this team, meaning the Thunder and who they've been defensively.

But I don't know.

I just would have liked to see him be a bit more aggressive.

I wouldn't spend an hour trashing the guy because that would that would feel unfair with what he's done but he

he just yeah i don't i mean the easiest thing in the world is just to be like oh you need to do more you need to well no no he needs to do more but i i'm not like mad at him today right i thought game five of the new york series

i thought he was i thought that was a really strange game by him i didn't feel like this game was that strange dort was I voted for Dort for Defensive Poor of the Year.

I thought Dort threw everything he had at him.

It was interesting when they interviewed Jalen Williams at the end of the the third quarter and they're like, what are you doing to slow down Halbert?

And he's like, Lou Dort.

Lou Dort thought he's going full tilt.

And then when he comes out, there's Caruso.

And their entire game plan was like, we got to make other people beat us.

We can't let him get going.

And also when they were making shots, they couldn't run.

So I don't know.

I'm sure he'll look at stuff and maybe he'll try to get going in some ways.

But I thought he took some, he took a couple good threes that I thought were going in.

They didn't.

And the problem for them is when he's not scoring and they're not getting fast break points, all of a sudden it starts to, we start adding up and it's like, shit, how are they going to get to 110

if he's not going to have points and they're not going to get fast break points and they're not going to hit a bunch of threes?

And that was it.

But, you know, they got the game they won.

Now OKC gets to go back to Indy.

That Indy game three is going to be,

you know, I'm sure all the Indiana legends will be there.

The crowd's going to be crazy.

And

we've seen OKC on the road look a little sketchy sometimes.

You know, they're a different team at home than on the road.

So if I'm Indiana, I'm like, we're good.

We got three games at home.

Let's do this.

Did you see any adjustment stuff from OKC other than they played,

seemed like they played the bigs a little bit more, but it wasn't like dramatic.

Holmgren played 27.

Hartenstein played 22.

So they never went super small, I don't think.

Other than that, I didn't really see anything.

Yeah, I love the Hartenstein minutes again.

I liked them in game one.

And, you know, there was a couple of things I was looking for, and I thought the double big stuff really worked.

I mean, they were a disaster on the boards in that first game.

The Pacers had 56 boards.

They were plus 17.

They hold them to 35 boards, granted, better shooting as well, but a minus eight for the Pacers on this one.

So

there was how much he wants to do the double big stuff.

It seems pretty clear, and this is the other thing that I saw in that last regular season game, is that I don't know if OKC is worried about Hartenstein being a target for all of these different guys that are really good with the ball in their hands.

You know, it's like four different guys.

If they feel like if they go double big, then it's a real concern what's going to happen with Siakam, I imagine, is part of thinking about it.

But sometimes when we think about different roster options and which five guys you want out there, we only think of the downside to what those things can be.

And I liked the minutes tonight from those guys.

And they didn't, you know, that was another thing with game one.

I thought he brought back SGA a little late.

Tonight, it didn't really matter.

He brought him in two minutes after Halliburton.

And I thought, Carlisle, I talked with Legs about it.

Carlisle was probably thrilled that they went small to close the last three-plus minutes in game one, being like, all right, great, because now we don't have to worry about Miles Turner being a target as much, even though Turner was kind of like their offensive plan, it felt like for much of the third quarter.

So by that point, the game didn't really matter to see if they were going to experiment with something small again.

And you're right about the pace thing.

Like the Pacers always have, like this Knicks series versus this series, it looks so different because the Knicks could not ever figure out a way to adjust to the transition part of it.

Yeah.

And that transition part of it through these two games, I think it's concerning.

It's great they got the split, obviously.

You know, they're huge underdogs in this.

But have you felt like at any point during these two games where you're like, oh, there's Indiana, like out rushing and just flying and getting those easy buckets and the defense is scrambling?

Like, it's just something I thought about as this one went final.

I'm like,

I don't really remember any part of this offense in the last two days or last two games where it felt like it was just so unrelenting because of their pace.

Yeah, and that's the thing with Halliburton.

Like, he's not like a mega usage guy, you know.

And if he misses a couple shots early, and if he's not going to run the ball in the fast break, it's not like he's going to figure out how to get 20 shots the Simway SGA would.

I'm with you.

There was a couple moments when they ran when they actually had like lanes, and you're like, oh, there it is.

But I really think OKC's entire game plan is for that not to happen.

You know, they're just, they're sending multiple dudes at Halliburton and they don't, they don't want Indiana to run.

And when Indiana runs, they're a different team.

I think at home, they're going to be able to run probably a little bit more.

So I was with you on the double bigs, and they only did it, it felt like for maybe four or five minutes.

But in those minutes, they just seem huge compared to Indiana because Indiana is just not a big team.

I wonder, conversely with Indiana, are they going to go super small and try to have like multiple guards and multiple handlers?

Like, will they play McConnell, Hal Burton, and Nemhard at the same time, shit like that, to try to make it a little more chaotic and track meaty?

Trying to think of what adjustments they would do.

I think you're in a lot of problems.

If you're that small, though, man,

and even like to the Pacers' small lineup, it's not necessarily that small because Toppin and Siakum are probably their preferable five,

depending on what they want to do with the rest of the guards.

But, you know, OKC's a big team.

And even though Caruso and Wallace are their smallest guys, they're just such badasses and they're so strong.

Caruso's in on everything.

Like that stuff when the game starts to get to a point where like other guys are tired and then he's just on the baseline and it feels like he's just everywhere and everybody's forgetting about him and how hard he's fighting for position and becoming like this last second little thing.

It's just, you know, it's all over the court.

Sometimes it's under the rim, then he's in the corner, then he's under the rim again.

It's like, how'd you get over there?

I also feel like, and I don't, I don't care who wins this series.

I'm amazed by how much he gets away with the hand checking and stuff.

He's just, the way he uses his hands, it's got to be so frustrating to go against him because like everything's a foul.

So nothing's a foul, right?

He's just, he's establishing contact and he's just, that's what he's doing.

And it's really effective.

And then they, you know, Wallace is another one who's a little bit handsy.

Dort is just like built like a fucking football linebacker.

I can't imagine Hal Burns having a great time in this series.

Even the game-winning shot he hit in game one, that was not an easy shot.

It was funny because we went right after the game and I only saw that play and then we went right on.

There were so many fascinating wrinkles to that last play where it seemed like there was a split second where he could have backdoored to Siakam for a game-winning layup and Caruso was kind of frozen by the possibility of it.

But the shot he ended up making, it's so weird to see somebody they think they're going to pass and then shoot at the last second.

But my point is,

nothing's coming that easy, Tim.

Do you think OKC,

has those first two games changed any opinion you had on this series?

You know, I think the only thing, not really.

So the simple answer is no.

I thought it was going to be really hard for the Pacers to solve this defense four times for four wins in a seven-game series.

Yeah.

But

with what the Pacers have done here historically with these comebacks and what is it, eight and one in clutch games.

So, of course, tonight doesn't get into the clutch category.

The only thing you were thinking about in between game one and two, at least for me, you know, I'll ask you, but it was, is there going to be some weird, like the Pacers are just more comfortable in this spot?

Because it seems a little silly to be like, you know, the Thunder were young and this is still sort of new to them.

And it's like, well, you know, it's not like the Pacers have been in seven Eastern Conference finals here.

This isn't exactly like this hardened team, even though they made it to the Eastern Conference Finals last year.

So they make it one more round.

And so I was letting those thoughts enter my head, but I never felt like conclusive of going, does Indiana have this

intangible advantage that's hard to describe other than there's just certain teams that look comfortable in these moments and other teams that don't.

It's so funny you mentioned thoughts creeping in your head

about halfway through that first quarter, when it was going back and forth, and OKC looked a bit frazzled, and the pace was a little chaotic, but Indiana seemed really comfortable with how it was going.

And I started thinking, like,

maybe they just love the speed and physicality and everything of an OKC series in a way that other teams seem to eventually shrink from it.

Like, maybe this is just, maybe they're just finding themselves.

Maybe this team is just hitting some gear.

And there's been examples in history.

Like, I remember in 04 with the Pistons, as that Pistons Lakers series went along, you could kind of feel them growing into just the dominant team.

And same with the Spurs against the Heat 2014.

So I didn't, I did, I was watching going, huh,

maybe Indiana is just awesome, you know, and then all of a sudden they're down 15 in the second quarter.

It's like, okay, some still, still some limitations here.

I still think OKC is going to win the series.

I think.

And staying on the books agree.

The home part of this, and I'd love to know the updated odds

when you get those.

But

if you think of like the two things that have happened for these two teams to be meeting for a championship, OKC has been destroying teams at home.

So what happened tonight is actually very normal.

I mean, they beat Memphis by 50.

They lose on the only other game that they've lost at home now.

So they've lost two playoff games at home.

Two really dumb last 10 seconds of the game losses.

So it's the Aaron Gordon.

Yeah.

Everything else has been double figures.

And then the only lead the Pacers have in game one is when Halliburton hits it with 0.3 seconds left.

Yeah.

So

those are probably

more anomalies than some of these other games they have on their resume.

Like whether it's, you know, they have game two against Denver.

They beat them by 43 in game two.

They kill them in game seven.

You know, they, they put it to Minnesota in those third quarters.

They play that epic game at Minnesota in game four four and win that one.

And then it's like, okay, well, what kind of fight does Minnesota have?

And then they lose by 30.

So there's just some serious ass kickings that happen

in that place.

Yeah.

So tonight, tonight, I guess you could argue kind of both games make sense because of what the Pacers have done and what the Thunder have done.

So we're at 1-1.

They're minus 560.

Here's my sports radio topic for you.

Oh, nice.

Is the NHL finals officially more interesting than the NBA Finals this year?

Because the

NHL finals have been unbelievable.

That game, that game two the other night

was out of control.

That was one of the best finals hockey games I've watched.

And there's so many storylines.

In Florida, it seems like they have every annoying guy in the league.

They have like an all-star team.

And then you have McDavid.

That assist he had

in the first first period when he basically juked two guys and got it to

LD for the old goal there.

I just, I don't know.

It's been an amazing series.

And you're watching that.

It's like two teams at the peak of their powers.

Like McDavid, the best, probably the best NHL player who hasn't won the cup like ever.

And then you have this Florida team that has a chance to go back to back and has all these great players on it.

And then you watch this OKC, Indiana team where it's like OKC, probably not the team they're going to be two years from now.

They'll probably be even better in 2027.

And then Indiana, who's just having this kind of miraculous, crazy run.

And it just seems way more,

I don't know, just random than that Florida Edmonton where you're like, holy shit, this could be one of the defining NHL series we've had.

That's my case.

I've loved these two games as I expected to love them.

So yeah, I've enjoyed the cup final more than the NBA finals.

It's not even close.

No.

But I think when we get to Indy, I think the NBA Finals can rise up.

The other thing that's a very selfish reason is there's nothing like watching a sporting event and not having to have any fucking takes.

You like the relief?

Yeah.

It's awesome.

I don't take notes.

I don't know what the hell's going on.

So I was just like, this is fun.

Like, I'm just going to sit here and enjoy the sport because I'm dropping in.

I feel like it's almost like voyeurism.

Just like, all right, I'm going to hang out here in the bushes and watch what's going on.

I thought that way at the French Open the last few days, too.

I just hopped in.

I watched Creepy Bill.

I watched the third, fourth, and fifth sets from Hiding Behind a Tree.

And I was just like, this is the best shot making I've ever seen in my life.

I mean, it's on clay, so it's a little different than, you know, you have a little more chances to have rallies and stuff, but holy shit.

Yeah.

Holy shit, was it great?

Well, what's the storyline?

Like, play it out.

Like, what?

For which one?

There's, is there anything?

I mean, certainly you would say, hey, SGA cements his place in this game.

I think that's why people are struggling with this series.

Because if OKC wins, the, the takes are,

is this the start of like a little mini dynasty?

You start, you go backwards and you're like, is this like 2015 Warriors?

Is this 2,000 Lakers?

You go through these teams that had these half-decade runs.

It's just the start of that.

If Indiana wins, it's

probably the single craziest champion we've had since you and I have known each other.

I mean, you'd have to go back, maybe you'd have to go into the mid-90s Rockets, that one year when they were like, were they like 40, the back-to-back, the second?

Was it the first season?

One of those seasons, they were just underdogs in every series and somehow won.

But at least they had Hakeem.

It made more sense.

Clutch City.

Yeah.

So,

well, how would a Pacers championship compare to Dirk's championship against the Heat?

Well, Dirk was an all-time great player.

So at least like in the way we look at basketball and the way we've learned about basketball, it at least makes some sense.

Indiana winning, where you said it yourself, like you're still struggling whether Hall Burton's the top 10 player or not.

Because he's on all the lists now, and you're like, all right, if he's a top 10 player, why did I forget he was out there for the first half of game two of the finals?

I don't know.

It was just the 0-4 Pistons would be the only other one, but that team had just that starting five was almost their superstar identity, you know.

What did they make?

Eight, or excuse me, was it six Eastern Conference finals in a row?

Right.

That Detroit team.

So, but they were huge underdogs in 0-4.

I think they were like plus 400.

No doubt.

People are handing the title to the Lakers.

Yeah, I'm not saying that wasn't really surprising.

And maybe this is year two of like the Pacers being in the Easter Conference Finals a bunch of years in a row.

Like it's certainly not impossible, especially when you start thinking about what the East could look like after this summer.

But

if anyone's going to be left,

we might not have enough guys for an all-star team in the East.

The storyline.

If Giannis goes west, we're going to be in major trouble.

I know.

Right.

I mean, the Knicks are still going to be good.

I think Cleveland's still going to be good, but whatever.

I think we've already done this before.

But you know how, like, storylines, like, one of the biggest reasons why people got into

F1 is because of the storylines.

Because now you had this familiarity with these characters.

It was this very elitist kind of world, you know.

I remember Kevin Clark writing about it.

He's like, the drivers are like good looking and all the locations are like the best places in the world.

And so there's this almost like lifestyle is a rich and famous element to when you would get into F1.

But the biggest thing was, and what every league is always hoping to do is can you make a connection with the fans so they now care about the outcomes of these games because there's some attachment right yeah and it made me think about hockey like sure i want mcdavid to get a cup because

he is that special and i i hate it when the great ones don't have it and there's this like like i would have been furious if pedro ended up without a world series like that would have bothered me you know i probably eventually would have got gotten over it and gone off into retirement been okay but

even players I don't like, you know, like, I don't know.

Do you have a gym when you're retired?

You'll be out there.

I'll probably, yeah, you know, Fountain of Youth.

You know, even Barry Bonds, like, there's something to be said of, like, I, I still wish he had won,

what was it, 2002?

It was the Angel Series.

Yeah, right.

He did everything he could have possibly done.

Yeah.

But

at that time, 20 years ago, I was rooting for Bonds because I was like, I want him to be recognized.

And it's the same kind of thing thing with McDavid, but then you add in the rematch and the down 3-0 last year.

And just, I mean, I don't know that I care about any of the storylines other than, and this also could be what's happening in me.

Like, I even messed around with a soccer match today after the tennis because

the same thing with F1.

I know we've talked about it a little bit, is I'm enjoying sports that are not disrupted.

And hockey is not disrupted for these really, really long stretches.

And you're just watching guys play.

And And unfortunately, with basketball and football, the ends of these games, that whole dramatic like tension edge of your seat, because you're actually constantly getting a chance to like reset emotionally.

And in hockey, you don't have any time.

Like you're afraid to even look at your phone for a second when we had what we had on Friday night.

So I love the sport.

I don't talk about it very much.

But because again, I don't really feel all that comfortable talking about it because I'm not that versed on all the minor details of it.

But I, yeah, I mean, there's no question I've enjoyed those two games more than games one and two of the NBA Finals.

I was at a birthday party Friday and there was no TV on and it was like an outside backyard, but they had a TV.

Did you say that good?

I made the host put the hockey game on.

And can you put it on?

So he finds it, puts it on.

And like, nobody else at the party cares.

And I'm like, it's third period.

We got to, I need a couple of people.

Like, we got to, and within, I don't know, two minutes, there was like five, five guys just kind of like riveted by it because it was, it's that kind of finals.

Um, and then every once in a while, McDavid just goes really fast.

And it's so funny.

People who know nothing about hockey are like, what's the deal with that guy?

Why is he so much faster than everybody else?

It's like, that's McDavid.

He's probably the best player, prince offensive player the league's ever had since Gretzky.

Watching him go fast, though.

No, I'm with you on this.

There's nothing more exciting than him going fast.

He doesn't even have to do anything.

And I get so excited once he just decides I'm going to go faster than everybody else.

I like when they run the play where it's like a...

Uh-oh.

No,

they're in their own end, and they almost do like a, like, it's like an inbounds play in the NBA when they have the guy running full speed, but they'll do it just to try to create space so he can heat up fast and go fast.

And he just flies and it's really fun.

He goes so fast that you almost wonder, could he go just like in video games, could he just go around the net and just wrap it around and they wouldn't even know it happened?

Anyway, that game went in a double overtime.

And it's interesting because Marshand, he's on

Florida.

They trade the conditional second round pick for him and it activates if they make the round three, which they do.

And then, you know, he comes up massive.

And now he has the third most playoff goals ever.

It was hard not to

root against him.

I don't even know who I'm rooting for.

I bet on Edmonton for the series, but it's hard for me not to root against him.

What I love about Florida is how many annoying guys they have.

I think they might have broken the record.

They have the most guys who will do something cheap right after the whistle that I've ever seen in my life.

It's like whistle, and then Bennett's just like elbow somebody's side of the head.

What?

I didn't do that.

What do you mean?

But yeah, it's a really good series.

I think it's a good point that you made about the storylines thing because it is one of these, everyone's going to just point to the ratings because the ratings would be terrible tonight, right?

It'll be like, oh, this is the worst Sunday night rating we've had since so-and-so, because the game was decided the third quarter.

You know, it's two small markets, it's two teams we don't have a lot of familiarity with, and it's a league that we've talked about many times on this podcast that has refused to push the next generation of teams because they're just putting the old stars on over and over and over again in the biggest spots.

These are two teams that we knew were good heading into the season.

OKC was on TV

a decent amount.

I don't think Indiana was, but you know, you kind of learn these guys through the playoffs.

And I don't think the league, you know, if you're going to criticize the league on anything, it's just not pushing the younger teams that they know are going to be good.

We knew these teams were going to be good.

And I don't think they were on TV enough.

Would that have changed the rating?

I have no idea.

Probably not.

I don't know.

No, because I mean, as great as SGA is, and, you know, I think tonight was really special.

I think it was a really special game that it wasn't just the scoring.

It was like, okay, this guy's at another level than the other nine guys, whoever the other nine guys are that are out there.

And so it's just nice.

You know, it's nice if they get this to have something like that in this MVP season, have that kind of game on his resume in the biggest spot, right?

And there's still going to be bigger spots.

We'll see what happens.

But he's a really quiet dude.

You know, he's not,

he's not going

in like he's great for franchise to be the face of your franchise because you're just not dealing with any bullshit.

But sometimes the bullshit brings people in.

And

I think we all like drama.

And this league has become so popular in a way that's unlike the other leagues.

And I'm not talking about ratings, but just like the daily consciousness of it.

And certainly you and I are far too in it.

So maybe we're not even great gauges with this.

But the amount of like nonsense that we spend hours talking about, which is actually just good because there's an awareness of this league, these are two teams, like there's no nonsense.

And that's awesome for the coaching staff.

It's awesome for the locker room, but there's not really this, like,

it doesn't feel like there's anything necessarily at stake other than the championship.

And for those secondary viewers,

there's probably just a lot of boredom.

You're like, oh, so their best players, like incredibly efficient with pull-up jumpers.

And the free throw thing hasn't been an issue, really, I don't think at all.

I mean, the third quarter is a

free throw fest either.

Both going both ways.

But you know what I mean?

Like there isn't, there isn't this like big, engaging personality,

which again is great if you have to work every day with these people.

But the next day stuff and getting your mom to be like, what's on TV?

It's not a great matchup for that, which we my daughter, my daughter came and watched game two with me, and and I don't think she looked up more than like five times.

She was just on her phone.

It's just,

I think that's what it's probably going to be for casual viewers.

It's a good point on SGA, he just does everything really well.

He was awesome tonight and not awesome.

And like,

you know, there's those two ways of being awesome in the NBA game.

And he's like in the quiet, efficient, almost like a Greg Maddox, just getting guys out.

Not

doing like the 17 strikeouts.

Did you see that interview with him where he got asked the question and he did the deep sigh and like searched for the answer for like 10 seconds?

It was pretty interesting.

So I forget, I think it was Malika.

He asked him something.

He was like, oh man,

like really wanted to come up with a good answer for it.

It was just unusual because a lot of these guys are so media trained for moments like that.

And these guys are still like getting used to being famous people.

You know, Shay's famous.

I don't know.

He's a Canadian star who's been in the spotlight for a while, but he's not like famous, famous.

He's in a couple commercials now.

I don't think he's as, I don't wouldn't say he's one of the 10 most famous players in the league right now.

Yeah, that's bad if that's your MVP.

And I'm not being critical of him.

I just don't know that there's,

and this becomes like this kind of circular thing where it happens all the time.

Like I always kind of, whether I've joked with you or other people that are in in this business with us, it's like no one's ever lost a show because of them.

They've only lost a show because people didn't do enough to promote it.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Like, hey, you know what?

That contract, I wasn't really into it.

Didn't like the producer.

So I was showing up.

I was giving you like my C plus game.

Yeah.

And this oddly feels like I'm sort of saying something about

someone specific, but I'm not.

I'm not, I'm not saying anything specific.

I'm just saying that that's the norm is as soon as something's over, it'll be like, oh, well, you know, I could have done this or this could be better, the whole thing.

And there, there's always, remember like the baseball stuff?

It's like baseball is declining because they're not marketing their stars.

I've heard it with the WNBA, like they don't market enough.

And I always wonder, it's like, well, if SGA is this buttoned up,

what are you supposed to do?

Like, is it because if OKC were on national TV 12 more times this year, would the NBA Finals ratings be better?

And I'm asking, I don't know the answer to that, but sometimes

we just default to this, well, the league should have done this.

The leagues do a bad job here.

And it's like, I don't know.

Sometimes people just, they're just not interested.

They just might not be interested.

There's nothing you can do.

I remember 07 when LeBron made the finals against San Antonio.

And LeBron was still pretty new, right?

It was I think his fourth season.

And the ratings for that finals were terrible because it was a mismatch.

And we didn't have a real history with LeBron yet.

And then he had his two MVP seasons in 09 and 2010.

And that was when it was like going to be LeBron versus Kobe.

And that became the storyline.

And then LeBron didn't make the finals of the year.

It was interesting.

His shoe, I think the biggest selling shoe he ever had was 2011 after the decision.

It was like he needed the soap opera of the decision to go to that next level for like people like our parents to have opinions on him.

You know, maybe SGA, maybe he needs, maybe he needs like a, like a career polarization

consultant.

Yeah, but what's he going to do, demand?

Like, what could he possibly do?

Like, this is, this is actually the greatest compliment you can give somebody who's the face of a franchise is that it's so consistently every day is the same boring.

He's just an awesome teammate.

Right.

Can all my teammates come in and do my interview with me?

I just want to like remind remind everyone listening, this is not even close to a criticism.

This is like all you could ever want out of, especially somebody this young to be like, this guy already gets it.

And look, Jalen Williams did the media availability stuff before the finals even got started.

I was listening on NBA radio to his press conference, but I didn't know who it was right away.

I thought it was like a 45-year-old coach.

Like, who is this guy?

I was like, this guy's really, really impressive.

Yeah.

And then I had to like hit the screen because it was like, you know, know your phone it wasn't coming up right and then boom it's jalen williams and i'm thinking my god this guy's been in the league like a just a few years and this is what he sounds like already like these guys

he might need to do what brett hitman heart did in the mid 90s what's because he was the he was the champ well he was a good guy he was the champ but he was kind of like you know he was just a professional guy he's very similar to sga actually just very good at his canadian too isn't he canadian always good matches.

And then they kind of leaned into how do we make him a villain?

And he started doing this kind of agro-Canadian guy thing and insulting, uh, saying how Canada is better than America.

And then the fans were like, What?

And uh, and that became kind of a thing.

That became his personality.

Maybe that's what SGA needs to do.

Yeah,

it's tough to play in America when Canada is obviously a superior country.

Like, what?

SGA is insulting America.

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What are your expectations now?

If you had to say, OK, C will win the finals in blank games.

How many games would you say?

I said five, maybe it's six, but I don't see how the Pacers are going to solve this defense for four wins.

I don't know who the offensive spark is going to be

for situations like what happened today when they were able to limit Halberton.

And

I don't,

it'd have to be like a Matherin topping somebody that you mean game one where everybody scored?

Well, and everybody had like that's going to happen again.

Yeah, and they were still down 15 in the fourth quarter.

Yeah.

You know, they got away with the turnovers because OKC wasn't scoring on turnovers.

I think it was 11 points off those 25 turnovers.

And Legs and I were talking about it on our pod, going like,

you know how hard it is to only score 11 points off of 25 turnovers?

That's harder than forcing the 25 turnovers.

Just the anomaly of that.

And they had such great balance, but Siakam doesn't have a field goal make in the second half of game two.

Granted, he was at the free throw line nine times.

So sometimes the field goal attempt make thing can be a little misleading when you're looking at the shot chart after the game's over.

But instead of like incredible balance, massive rebounding edge, hitting the game winner, I mean, that game was not going their way for two plus hours until it did.

And the pieces have done it so many times that we're almost like, oh, that's not even weird for them.

It's still kind of weird.

Well, and then the flip side, OKC plays like one of the weirder offensive games they've played all year, where they basically just didn't pass the ball at all.

Okay.

They made a concerted effort in this game to be like, we got to move, make the extra pass.

SGA led the way, and that was it.

I would say, um,

I think Indiana gets one of the two in Indiana,

just because I feel like OKC has looked gamey in some of these road games, and I think that atmosphere is going to be awesome.

And I think Indiana is good at home, and I think they can get one.

And I would, I had OKC in five, I'd probably revise that to OKC in six, but I do not think we're getting seven.

I just think OKC is too good.

And they really shouldn't have lost game one when you think of it that way, right?

So I would, I would kind of stick in the five to six range for them.

Yeah, so like, like three is now harder for the Pacers because it's 1-1

than 2-0.

You know, if it were 2-0, I would probably just pick the Pacers in game three.

But I don't know.

I don't know.

Do the Pacers, if the Pacers, if Halliburton doesn't hit that shot, OKC wins it.

Do we see a better effort from them?

Or do you see, like, there was one possession, it was 52-39, and I wrote this one down.

And at that point, it had gone from like 23 points to a 13-point lead.

And you're like, man, here are the Pacers like hanging in there.

Because when it was 23, OKC had the ball, and then they had like a bunch of turnovers, multiple possessions.

And so the Pacers getting back into the game.

But there was this stretch where they kept getting offensive rebounds on this one possession, but every shot after the offensive rebound was so hard.

And then I think they ended up either getting free throws or had a make eventually.

But there was just that moment when you're watching the Thunder swarm and you're like, these shots suck like these the guys have the ball and it's like i guess i'll go now but i don't really want to take this but right like this is a bad shot because it's so contested but i don't really know if there's anything better than than what i'm doing and they would take it and they kept getting offensive rebound but like that specific possession i was like man when the when the thunder get it rolling like this like it's a pretty helpless feeling and then to your point it's kind of like all right is it siakam against mismatches are you going to run a ton of that are you going to have Halliburton coming off of curls?

Are you going to let Nemhar ISO?

Are you going to run the post stuff that they did with Turner, who they like Turner against Chet in the post?

But nobody does it.

Like nobody goes, okay, cool.

It's Chet against Turner for eight minutes.

Let's make sure he gets a post-touch every time down.

Like NBA teams just don't even want to do it, even when they like their advantage.

Well, and then the other thing, you get in the paint, you think it's a good thing to be in the paint, but against OKC, it's like the sensor of hell.

Yeah.

It's just

all the Sydney's extra hands come out.

There was that one when Halbert beat his guy off the dribble and SGA came from behind him and did like the Spider-Man strip and just got all ball like that.

No other team does shit like that.

Wallace had a contest in the corner where he blocked it and I couldn't believe

against Neesmith.

Yeah.

And it was, I was like, how he blocked?

Because the ball flies out.

And I'm like, what?

He got his hand on that?

Especially when you're thinking of like Wallace not exactly being the biggest dude out there.

And he had a makeup ground.

and it's not even just a contest.

He blocks it.

And I was like, this is, they have, they have possessions defensively where it just feels horrifying.

It's stupid.

And if they just run back the team,

I don't know why they wouldn't be a little bit better next year than this year.

Because

none of their guys are like exactly in their prime or past their prime, except for maybe Caruso, you could argue, like maybe he's peaked as a basketball player.

This is all we're getting.

You could go through every other guy on that team and make a case they're going to be like 5% better next year.

I don't know if they're going to keep Dort.

I don't know if there's some salary cap mechanics that they have to do.

And maybe, you know, you're bringing in Topich, whatever his name is, the rookie who got hurt.

You try to fill his minutes with more Wallace, and maybe that's how you save some salary and push it toward Chet and Jalen Williams extensions.

I don't know.

If they don't have to do that for another year, but this is probably the team.

Florida's minus 115 to win the cup again.

Edmonton's minus 104.

So basically dead even.

I don't know if you want to put some wood on

or you're just naturally rooting for McDavid.

I'm rooting for McDavid, and everybody knows how much I love the city of Edmonton.

So I was watching PTI before the finals, and they had Bucha Grass on.

And they was basically like, just tell us, give us the storylines for the series.

And he did this awesome McDavid thing, which I'm sure he's done on TV too.

About

this is the best player

ever to have not won a cup yet.

And it's not close.

And you go through the history of hockey, and nobody has ever been even close to being as good as this guy who hasn't won yet.

And this is the moment.

It's right here.

They have some salary cap issues next year.

It's going to be much harder with their roster.

Like they have to do it this year.

This is an incredible amount of pressure.

He has to get it done this year.

And I was like driving in my car.

I'm like, yeah, he's got to get it done.

I was like, I was like fired up.

We'll stay to it.

But this is the, this is the moment.

And there's, there's no basketball storyline like that,

I don't think, um,

in hockey.

Yeah, there's no basketball equivalent of this.

The only one I could like, it's basically like Dirk in 2011, but if Dirk was the best player in the league for like seven straight years and was in that same kind of Dallas spot, I guess would be the analogy, right?

Who else would it be in the last 25 years?

Well, you'd have to be the undisputed best in the sport.

And as great as Dirk was, he wasn't that as much as that LeBron just staying in Cleveland, never leaves, and now it's like 2016.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah,

I like McDavid.

That video last year of him just screaming at everybody in the locker room was one of the

best internet locker room videos I've ever seen in my life.

I'm a huge Capitan guy, another film.

Yeah.

I don't know if he's any good or not.

I played golf with one of the retired guys, and I was like afraid to go,

is Kapaden good?

You know, be like golfing with you.

Be like, is Aaron Wiggins a max guy, Bill?

Is he?

Would you rather have Aaron Wiggins or Michael Porter Jr.?

I'm going to bring that up again.

Man.

I mean, look, Michael Porter Jr.

is clearly the most talented player, right?

Like, we don't.

Sure.

There's no debate there, right?

Okay.

Wow.

I mean,

I think I still take Porter Jr.

just because the dribble shot making stuff when it's really good is bananas, B-A-N-A-S.

Bananas.

We're going to play a game called I Wouldn't Be Surprised If, dot, dot, dot,

because it is now June 8th.

I think I misspelled bananas.

Four weeks,

four weeks from now, a bunch of shit will have happened.

We will have an NBA champion.

We will have an NBA draft.

We will probably have a couple trades in June.

We will have some free agent signings in July and maybe even some more trades.

And the league is going to look a lot different.

Some people are saying it's going to be the craziest offseason.

I can't imagine that.

I still feel like I've heard this a couple of times, even from people we like, like Windhorst.

I still feel like the the Kawhi Paul George Anthony Davis summer, to me, is the 10 out of 10 for crazy summers.

I don't know if we're topping that.

Yeah, but Davis was in February, wasn't it?

No, Davis, that trade, it was in July.

Remember, they tried to trade him in February and it didn't go through.

And then all those Lakers were stuck on the team for the rest of the year after they'd been in the trade.

And then I remember, yeah, because I remember just only because it was Super Bowl and I was constantly, we were all on like a low.

And so I thought, all right, I forgot about that.

To me, that's the number one summer.

Tough one to be.

But anyway.

You seem to have animosity about expectations that it could be a crazy summer, though.

That's what I like.

I don't know.

I mean, sure,

there's a lot of stuff that feels like there's possibilities.

It could be moving.

For it to be the craziest summer, I think Giannis would have to move.

I think

that's locked in.

Yeah.

And other stuff would have to happen, but we would have to have Giannis.

A Giannis trade would have to be part of that for that to even be in the conversation.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if dot, dot, dot, give me one.

I wouldn't be surprised if,

well, let me say it this way, because it's not based on Intel or anything, but

the Celtics clearly have to make moves because of the finances, and it's hard to sign off on a team without Tatum and be like, that's fine.

And then all the restrictions that are involved in a super expensive team without its best player.

So

I don't think like tanking makes any sense.

You know, if the Celtics run it back with Jalen Brown and say, you know what, we get a really good player back in 25, 26, probably going to be a great season.

And that's probably the case for almost every team that starts their year.

It's okay.

And we'll figure out a way to cut costs and move out some players, but we still want it to be Jalen Brown Tatum.

Having said that, if there's an offer out there that makes sense, I think they'd explore it.

So yeah, I guess I wouldn't be shocked if Brown.

if they did treat it like a gap year.

I could see the argument for both approaches.

I would throw a a third approach in.

What if they just blew it up?

And I would have been surprised three, four weeks ago, but I don't think I'd be as surprised now.

What's blow it up mean?

I mean like multiple trades.

Like they just say, fuck it.

Tatum's not playing next year.

When he comes back a year from now, we're going to reset everything and we're going to have a completely different team.

So that would be

Because what people have been talking about with them are they'll trade Drew and or Porzingis to get under the tax.

I think the one thing, the one thing I would definitely put major money on is that they will shed 20 to 25 million somehow over the summer.

And I don't know how they're going to do it, but they will.

I guess the question for them is,

could somebody overwhelm them with a Jalen offer, especially if Giannis doesn't get traded?

And

Jalen becomes basically the best guy to get if you're one of those teams that's red here trying to go up a notch.

And Jalen's probably the number one drop pick at that point.

See, I like it.

I hope it doesn't happen, but

I'm starting to get nervous that it might.

What I like about what you said there, though, is something I think we've touched on, whether it's on this pod or on our own stuff.

But

sometimes it feels like it can get a little contagious where you're doing all the work with your staff, the ownership is bought into it.

It's like, okay, we're going to go get one of these big ticket items.

And then, to your point, like, you feel like you've done the prep work.

And not to say that a Jalen Brown package is the same as a Giannis package, But if Durant's available, like, what's that package look like?

You know, what if Giannis pulls it?

So it's just, you feel like you've been prepping for this moment.

And then all of a sudden, Horst and Milwaukee and Giannis and his agent are like, all right, we're fine.

And I'm with you now.

Like, I already talked about how I've changed my mind after the combine, where it just felt like there was too much conversation around it, where it's like, well, then if you don't do it this summer, you're probably going to end up like looking at a worse market for him next summer if Milwaukee has a bad season.

So doing something that I would never want to do and trade Giannis if I were a GM, to me, it makes more sense now after Chicago.

Who knows?

Could be totally wrong.

But if that is pulled off, if the Durant thing is already kind of predetermined, then maybe you're right.

Maybe there are three or four teams.

It's like we were ready to really swing for something, and you know, the two, the two other options aren't available here.

Does that mean that people feel like they've done enough prep work and there's been enough conversations for that to be something that's easier to settle on?

Well, how many teams do we think

are stepping into the batter's box with their helmet on, doing the Nomar with their gloves, like getting ready to take a couple swings here?

Because to me, it's the Rockets and the Spurs are the two I'm watching.

And then everybody keeps telling us that Toronto is like that too.

But I just,

how are they getting, I don't know, even if they try to get somebody like Giannis.

You're trading so much away to get Giannis.

He's just basically in the same situation.

He's already in in the bucks, right?

I think that's a huge part of any Giannis trade is he's got to go to a team that's giving up assets, but is keeping enough of their team that it now makes sense for him to go to that team.

You know what I mean?

And that's where it's the Rockets and the Spurs are the two most likely for me because they can trade stuff and they can trade future picks, but still keep enough that they become really interesting with him.

And then the next would be the other team, I think, for Giannis, which we've talked about before.

And that would involve the Bucs being like, cool, Carl Anthony Towns.

Where do we sign?

And that would have to unfortunately be part of the trade, which is probably why it wouldn't happen.

But my feeling is that Gianna stays.

And if they decide to do anything, they look at December, January, February, when maybe, you know, by the time we get to December, eight teams hate their teams.

And seven other teams are like.

Are we doing anything?

And you just,

we might not have enough teams that feel that way now, you know?

So

unless to me, unless it's the Rockets, because if I'm the Spurs, like let's talk this out.

If you're the Spurs that knew how to get a chance to get Giannis, and you're basically giving away the number two pick and all this other stuff to put him with Wemby and like De'Aaron Fox, basically.

And we're in the room with the owner

trying to walk him through whether we should do that or not.

Would you tell him, yeah, do it?

Because sometimes the window is now, if you have a guy like Wemby, go for it, go for it.

I think that number two, like, like people really love Harper.

People really think he has a chance to be like a special offensive guard, you know, and when you think like Wemby's pretty young,

I don't know.

Giannis is 31.

He's been in the league since 2013.

And I just wonder if, are the timetables kind of staggered a little too much?

Where's Wemby going to be a year from now versus five years from now?

Would it be more fun to just kind of grow into the Wemby team versus to just press the button and go for it immediately?

Whereas Houston, I think, is in a different spot.

It would be so much fun just to see how the Wemby-Giannis piece fits together.

Can you imagine?

Imagine them playing Indiana right now in the finals.

We're like, yeah, they're having trouble.

Trouble driving you to the paint against Wemby and Giannis.

Indiana's going to go to a zone here, I guess.

They're unveiling their Tony Bradley, Thomas Bryant, Miles Turner lineup.

Indiana's putting James Johnson again,

hoping to goad Giannis into a fight.

I don't know.

So, would you tell them,

would you tell them slow play this, or would you tell them it's Giannis, you got to go get him?

If they're sold on Harper, then you know the contractual control and all that kind of stuff.

But sometimes I think we make this really complicated.

Like, if you have a chance to get Giannis, and this is why I think these teams do this as often as they do, and maybe it's changing a bit with the financial restrictions, but again, we'd have to see this play out for multiple years before I think we have any kind of answer.

But you've talked to enough of these guys that run these teams.

Like, you hope at one point in your life you get a fucking player as special as Giannis on your roster.

I thought you were going to say Wemby when you set that set.

That's up.

Yeah, okay, whatever Wemby ends up.

You might end up with two of those guys at the exact same time.

Right.

And the Spurs, are going to say we actually had like four of them.

But

I don't think people can help themselves.

I don't think people can say no when Giannis is available.

Like to think of that actual call where it's like, okay,

we would do this.

Now, Spurs ownership feels like they've had so much success, certainly pretty buttoned up place.

Maybe, maybe they don't, maybe they're the outlier.

It's like, no, we kind of like the way we do things.

So that would be the what would Sam Presty do?

You'd be the it's the old what would Belichick do now?

It's what would Sam Presty do?

Sam Presti would not trade for Giannis.

I think he would rather build around the assets and build around Wemby and try to build a sustainable decade around a guy versus like going for the kill quick.

Yeah, I mean, it's right.

Yeah, but

I think you have to have a certain level of juice.

You got to have some kind of equity in your city as a franchise, and you you have to have that kind of equity with ownership for you to be able to tell the owner, who's ultimately saying yes or no to all this stuff.

Like, we shouldn't do this.

We shouldn't grab.

And as expensive as Giannis is on the north side of 30, and some of the injuries, fine.

Plus, Wemby's contract coming.

Plus, you got to pay Fox next year.

So now you have three max guys, which is death with the second apron system.

That'd be the only reason not to do it.

I mean, how would you handle it if you owned a team and they were like, hey, we just got off the phone in in Milwaukee, like we can have the second or third best player in the world on our team?

I would, so if I'm the Spurs owner,

I would be absolutely obsessed with, with trying to figure out how good Harper could be.

I would have a whole wing of my front office just crunching Harper tape,

studying interviews, every piece of it, because if he has a chance to be either special or close to special, I think that changes the equation.

This is not like the Lakers trading for Anthony Davis and the fourth pick in the draft and it's DeAndre Hunter.

And it's like, fine, take him.

You know, this is

if this guy could be like a special running mate with Wemby and they'd be two years apart basically, and you would have them just kind of ascending together.

And it's not, and I've heard the stuff about, well, that would be weird with him and Fox.

It's like, fine, trade Fox.

Parper's special, like you'll have moves.

It's not like you're stuck with whatever team.

So

that would, what would would become that?

Could I get somebody really special with the second pick in a draft that everybody loves?

And if I feel like I could, what kind of timetable am I on with Wemby?

When do we think Wemby could be

somebody who could be in the finals as the best player in a series or one of the two best players?

Is that two years away?

Is it three years away?

Giannis does, I mean, Giannis has a lot of games and some miles on him.

That would be the other thing I would worry about with tall guys.

As they hit their early 30s, the history of that.

I would be doing studies on that.

Every seven-foot and up guy from age like 31 on what happened to them.

But if I'm Milwaukee,

that's my dream trade, right?

Can I get the number two pick?

Can I get Devin Vessell and Harrison Barnes and some future picks?

Like that's that would enable me to do a real reset and build around somebody.

Yeah, but the thing that sucks and why

if you're Milwaukee, you're like, okay, we're getting their picks, but it just sucks to go through your own rebuild without your picks.

Without Without your picks.

But you'd think maybe we'll be good in a year.

Maybe we'll take the hit

for one year, and then maybe it'll be okay after that.

Well, if Dylan Harper's that good, then

I don't know.

You tell me.

How much crunching can be done?

Yeah, I've done a done a bit of crunching here in the spare time.

I think the biggest thing with him is that he

does everything that you want out of NBA guys.

Like the way at his size,

that high ball screen and coming off of that, and just the palette of shit that he can do to you is really good.

And I don't even think his shooting is as bad as the numbers are because I think he's one of those guys that's like, hey, I'm this huge deal coming in.

And some of these kids just love pulling up and taking bad threes.

It's like watching Steph's influence at pickup games.

You'll see some of these higher-profile five-star guys that have all the game and want to get their numbers and stuff.

And his shot selection, his decisions on where where he'll decide to pull up from, it's bad.

His shooting isn't bad.

His when he pulls it, because he's like, ah, fuck it, I'll pull up from here.

But like the way, the way he gets going and just the way the NBA plays, it's it runs its offense, like you could just see it.

Like, okay, this is why everybody likes this guy this much because he's he's six, four and a half, he's got this handle.

Again, I think he's a better shooter than the numbers.

I'm going to do I wouldn't be surprised if

I wouldn't be surprised if

KD to the Spurs is done already and they just haven't announced it.

Like it's basically they've, they've agreed on specifics

and they'll just announce it the week of the draft.

I'm not, don't aggregate that.

I have no inside info.

It just feels, this goes back to the honest thing.

I think they're just going to trade for KD and it will cost a lot less.

They'll be able to to be really competitive and maybe even go a couple rounds in the playoffs, but they're also going to keep the number two pick and do it that way, would be my prediction.

Do you like KD and San Antonio more than you do Minnesota?

So, what's Minnesota giving up in this scenario?

Because they're not allowed with the second apron plus, they're not allowed to do sign-in trades, right?

They can't like sign Nas Reed and then trade him for KD.

I thought there were restrictions against this stuff.

I'm still trying to figure out.

It's so punitive to be above.

So I know they can trade two guys and get one back.

They could patch stuff together.

So Randall would have to be in it.

So the Sons would have to be excited about Julius Randall, which I'm suspicious of, even though he had mostly good playoffs.

Yeah, and he also has the player option, too.

So you'd have to figure out what you're doing.

You'd have to opt him in.

But if I'm him, I'm opting out and trying to be a free agent.

Are you?

Well, there's no free agents.

But there's who's who's giving him 31 million?

The Nets.

But you're doing sign and trade stuff, I think, at this point.

Yeah, I'm just talking if he's just totally.

I mean, all this stuff would be figured out ahead of time.

I like your Spurs.

I like your Spurs kind of like, hey, this is way cheaper.

We keep the number two.

You're probably going to fall.

Bassell has to be in the trade.

I think it's Bissell and Barnes with a future first, and you call it a day.

Durant's got a year left in his contract.

He's 37.

You're not getting a shitload for him at this point.

You bring in Sohan and be like, annoy Beal so he retires.

To bring in Sohan, you sign Thanassis as a free agent and you just have Thanassis just bulldozing into Beal during the practices.

Like you just, your whole job this year, you're not going to get a lot of minutes, but we want Lou Dort.

You're going to be Lou Dort against Beal every practice all season long, even in the layup line.

You know, like 40 years ago, I remember reading a Sports Illustrated story.

I think it was Chicago.

They didn't like Reggie Theas.

He was the star of the team.

They just basically benched him and stopped playing him as a way to like humiliate him.

And there was an article about it.

I barely remember the details.

And then they ended up trading him, I think, to Sacramento.

But it got so contentious, they just basically took his playing time away.

as like a way to be vindictive.

And I wonder, is that the only move left for Phoenix?

Like he, like, Beal just doesn't play.

He just sits on the bench, faces one, faces away for two years.

But I'm saying, like, you just don't play him.

Be like, we expect you to show up on time,

suit up, and you just never play.

And maybe you like bring him in when they, when it's like a 40-point game, you bring him in for like the last two minutes.

He has to like stretch and come out.

Like, it's all about basically getting to break him so he waves the no-trade clause.

It sounds like the makings of an FX series

breaking Bill

From the mind that brought you Parker Lewis can't lose.

John Landgraft's really high on it.

He loves this idea.

There'd be something there, obviously.

Jordan Peel's an EP and Jordan Poole.

Jordan Poole and Jordan Peale are EPs.

Sounds like somebody's working on an outline.

Yeah.

You know how like...

Any place, anyone listening to this, you know who this person is because you've experienced it.

But in the times where you have an issue with something at work and you're like, okay, but

why am I having to do this?

But this guy gets to do this.

And then the person will just straight up look at you and go, because that guy's a huge pain in the ass.

And if we don't do this,

he's going to be like, and so you're just sitting here going, so you're telling me the lesson in this is that I need to be way more of a pain in the ass.

Yeah.

I have to be so like, you have to dread me being upset about something so much that I then end up getting my way.

And that's not really going to to work the way it works.

With Beal, man, I don't know if there's anybody that's more comfortable being like, you think you're going to get to me?

Right.

You can do whatever you want.

Yeah.

I'm good.

It's like those stories they have now: the people torturing the Bitcoin guys to try to get their passwords.

Beal, no trade class.

They just.

psychologically torturing.

I mean, he's just not breaking.

It's like you're not getting it.

Do you want to do it?

And I wouldn't be surprised if dot dot dot.

Give me a Sacramento Trades for Patrick Williams.

Whoa, you went indie.

It was just, I don't know.

You did Tribeca Film Festival on me.

Yeah, yeah.

Chris Ryan's outside with a beanie, smoking a cigarette,

going, I liked it.

I don't think you got it, dude.

I don't think you got it, dude.

It's good.

No, watch it again.

Yeah, no, there's some stuff going on.

I I don't think you caught it.

The Plus brothers liked it.

You didn't like Slacker, dude?

Then that's why you didn't get it.

Patrick Williams.

That's a good one.

Yeah, I was just doing like a Chicago Sacramento joke.

I have another one later, but I know you have a couple.

So empty the barrel,

young son.

Gianna Stays on the Bucks was one of mine.

But we already covered that.

You don't think I felt felt like you were hot on the Knicks thing.

The Bucks would, I think, here's how it happens.

Giannis goes to them and says, I've thought about it.

I want to be traded to the Knicks.

You owe this to me.

I won you the title in 2021.

I've been a great buck.

I've been a great credit to the city.

I've done everything I can do here.

I would like to go to New York.

And that's how it happens.

And then it's like towns, bridges, three-team trades, some picks, and the Bucs can basically salvage, I don't know, 80 cents in the dollar.

I think that's the course.

But I think Giannis would have to do that.

And I just don't think he's going to do it.

I don't think he's wired to do that.

I don't see him.

I just don't see it.

We followed that guy since 2013.

I feel like I have a pretty good hand on him.

I just don't see it.

I think he's more of a batting his eyelashes.

Ah, maybe, but I don't see him demanding a trade.

And I don't think they're going to trade him unless A, somebody makes some crazy fucking offer, or B, he goes in and says, it's time.

You got to trade me to Golden State.

You got to trade me to the Knicks.

But they're going to trade in the team

he wants to get traded to, I think would be my one bet.

So I think they're going to do right by him.

And

he'll be smart enough to be like, yeah, I'm not, you know, you don't have to give me away, but send me the right team.

Here's, here's what I have for you.

And it's heated up in the last week.

So I'm probably like two weeks late on this because I felt this way for a while

that I feel like Garland's going to be in play.

And I think a lot of people in the league feel this way.

And now in the last week, there's been some media people and there's been some buzz about it.

There's a couple pieces to this, which is Cleveland, the second apron, the tax, like they have some real money stuff.

So if they trade Garland, they have to go down a little bit.

I was looking at Brooklyn for him.

And that's going to be my, I wouldn't be surprised if dot dot dot team with Brooklyn, if it was Garland and Okoro

and Cam Johnson coming back to the Cavs with the number seven pick

and some other asset, because I think he's worth more than that.

But there's something there.

And then if you're Brooklyn, you're like, we finally have our guy.

This is one of the best 25 guys in the league.

He's young.

He's going to be his own team.

He can be our Halliburton.

We're going to build an entire roster around everything that he's good at.

And we're going to try to basically do the Halliburton in Indiana.

And this is our guy.

And then if you're Cleveland, it's like, all right, we looked at that Mitchell Garland thing for a while.

We can't pay Mitchell Garland and Mobly.

We got to pay two of the three.

We get to retool.

We get another shooter.

We get a draft pick.

And I don't know.

There's something about that trade that makes sense to me.

What are your thoughts?

Yeah, it makes sense.

And like at least Brooklyn feeling like it has something.

Although it felt like they had something with the way Cam Thomas came out at the beginning of this year.

I mean,

he was lighting it up, even though he hasn't always been my favorite in the past.

I just thought this version of him was better.

I don't know.

Does Cam long term make you think they wouldn't be like, hey, let's add a smaller non-defensive guard next to him?

Well, you get the seventh pick, too, which I think could be a really good player in this draft.

No, I'm talking about the Nets, like your backports, Garland and Cam Thomas.

Is Cam Thomas on the perfect team as six man, or am I crazy?

I don't think he would agree with you.

It's the Colin Sexton problem, right?

Yeah, yeah, right.

Like, if you're a six-man, we're doing great.

Yeah, Sexton can get you buckets, but you just don't have to go.

Come on in, 23 minutes a game.

Score some points for us.

Yeah, maybe.

I know what you're saying here.

It's like, okay, well, Garland isn't perfect.

Well, then, who?

I mean, he's young.

He can shoot, he can handle.

We're talking about somebody who's going to be flirting with a lot of all-star appearances throughout his career, although that Steve probably wouldn't be very good.

So, you know, maybe he doesn't make the team because the team isn't good.

But there's not a lot of homes for him because so many teams are already all in with whoever their point guard is.

I was going through all the teams and because I was like, man, if Garland's available, there'd be a fucking line.

And then you go through all the teams and teams that could actually trade and

the list starts to shorten a little faster than you thought.

Houston would be another one, right?

Houston could, but that, but then that doesn't really help Cleveland from a

from a salary cap standpoint because part of the deal would have to be they'd have to cut salary in the trade, which is why Brooklyn's one of the only teams that can do that.

So I don't hate, I don't hate what you're coming up with at all.

So like, I'm not doing this where you bring up something and then I go, oh, there's all the reasons why it doesn't work because it's way easier to do it that way.

But it's, it's kind of like a face of the franchise thing, you know, a team that thought that they had it figured out to now having a roster that I'll have nights with them where I'm like, who the fuck is that?

And at least you would have a guy you think you can kind of

mold a team around him, I feel like.

I don't know how good that team would be, but I think conceivably you can do it.

Do you have another one?

Yeah, I just don't see how the Sixers

take use that draft pick.

It's on my list.

I think it's a pretty obvious one.

It's not based on anything.

It's just other than just common sense.

Maybe that front office goes, hey, look, with this team, we're never going to draft this high.

And then if you fall in love with somebody, but

I think from a development standpoint, unless you're just so good at doing the development stuff when you're not playing in the games, although with the way the injury history of that team, maybe there's more minutes available than I'm admitting to here.

But like an Ace Bailey, just

never,

you know, never playing.

Does that make a ton of sense?

Do you think there's any chance he goes third?

I know, not necessarily.

I don't think he goes third.

Yeah, I don't really understand.

Are you saying

Philly keeps that pick?

I just think they would take Edgecombe

because he fits the model of the kind of guy that Daryl has been picking for 20 years.

I just think he would take him.

And maybe Trey Johnson would be the other one.

I got to say, just as you know,

I dive in slowly and I do the YouTube thing and then I have a whole process.

And by the time we get to the draft, I've done my whole YouTube deep dives and everybody.

Trey Johnson gives great YouTube.

Oh, yeah.

Wow.

First initial foray into the Trey Johnson YouTube universe.

I was like, whoa.

Have you done fears yet?

No.

Good, good YouTube?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like when he's at his best and the fact that he, like, flagged, reclassified, so he's like a year younger than he, than he should be with this stuff.

When he's at his best with his ability to drive and just you can't stay in front of him.

Like, I just don't think there's actually as many people that we say, like, hey, you can't stay in front of this guy.

You can't stay in front of this guy.

But then there's also people like, if there's no help defense, it's not necessarily that hard to to get around defenders and then there's fears on this level of

like when when he gets the angle on you it's it's over

it's a good quality to center in on in the nba and with football receivers

like football receivers who are just always wide open because they just get wide open all the time i'm pretty sure they're going to work in the nfl you know for some reason the patriots decided not to take any of them for 15 years um do you want to hear something funny about case bailey

This has nothing to do with him necessarily, but what we were talking about before, Michael Porter Jr., Andrew Wiggins on ESPN for their draft coverage.

Let me double check because it's Jeremy Wu.

They did a high end and a low end

for Ace Bailey.

And the high end is Michael Porter Jr.

The low end is Andrew Wiggins.

Who had a better career than Michael Porter Jr.

Andrew Wiggins is going to have 20,000 points.

And he was the second best player in the finals team.

Yeah,

I was surprised.

Like,

Andrew Wiggins is the low end to Michael Porter Jr.'s high end.

I would have flipped that.

Or is it because Michael Porter Jr.?

Although there's an argument to be made that both guys are like so dynamic athletically, and yet you were like.

Should they have said Michael Porter Jr.

on the right night?

What if the ceiling?

They need more Michael Porter Jr.

information?

What if the ceiling was Aaron Wiggins?

Aaron Wiggins on the right night or Michael Porter.

Yeah, Michael Porter Jr.

Do you have any more?

I wouldn't be surprised or should we take a break?

No, we can take a break.

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All right, quick NBA draft thing because we're getting close now.

We're not far away.

I'm going to give you the top eight: Dallas, San Antonio, Philly, Charlotte, Utah, Washington, New Orleans, Brooklyn.

So, if I told you one of those teams is trading their pick, you would say Philly.

If you had to bet your money,

one of those eight teams will trade their pick.

Dallas, San Antonio, Philly, Charlotte, Utah, Washington, New Orleans, Brooklyn.

Yeah, I mean, if I had a bet, I would bet on Philly.

I don't know what Utah is going to do because they probably don't want another guard, but

what are they supposed to do?

Like, pass on the better guard for a better positional fit for a team that isn't any good right now, anyway.

So I mentioned this to Zach the other night, but it was late and he was groggy.

I'm on high alert with Utah.

Austin took that job.

He had a quote in the press conference that I thought

kind of gave me one of those where he was just like yeah we're not tanking anymore he just said it matter of factly

it's like all right um and around the league people seem to feel like marking in

isn't not available

i would not be surprised if they got aggressive and said okay let's start coming up with something here Like let's let's figure out how to piece two for one.

And if the one isn't a star, at least it's somebody who raises you know who are the five guys that are getting the minutes closing basketball game you have all these little pieces cool but you know they're kind of like in that spike remember where orlando felt like they were always just the one pick behind in the lottery from getting the guy that happened a bunch of years there it was it was god's way of getting back at them after the early 90s yeah it just felt like utah

for a few years now it's just like oh cool we're picking here i like that fifth pick for them, though.

They're going to get somebody good with that pick.

It's like this NBA draft every year.

Like, they might end up with the best guy in the entire draft, other than flag with the fifth pick.

You just never know.

I'm going to give you a list.

I made this in descending order.

So, highest quality guy down of possibly available guys.

And I'm going to read you the list that I've not sent to you.

Just hit the buzzer if it's somebody that you did not think is even possibly available.

All right.

right.

Giannis.

Jalen Brown, Garland Towns, next level.

Jalen Brown, didn't make you blink.

Saying not available?

Yeah, I'm saying possibly available.

I think I would qualify Jalen Brown as much as I hate it, and I hope they don't trade him.

I don't think he's untouchable with the situation the team's in right now, do you?

No, not at all.

So was I supposed to hit the buzzer then?

No.

Okay.

That's why I was laying out.

I don't have a buzzer, just for the Durant Marketing.

That's the next level.

Both of those guys we think are available.

Okay, next group.

Austin Reeves.

Trey Murphy?

I don't know why Trey Murphy would be available.

Because if you're in New Orleans, you're in no man's land.

You have, are you keeping Zion?

I guess you are.

You're the seventh pick.

It's not in the top five.

Could you use Trey Murphy in the seventh pick to get somebody awesome?

I don't know.

Could you try to do your version of the Mikhail Bridges trade with Trey Murphy

and just get a shitload of stuff?

I don't know.

I just, I have them written down.

And so you're hitting the buzzer in him.

I thought he took that step that you're always like hoping for with a bunch of these guys.

You're like, man, he has all the game.

He has more handle than he's allowed to show.

They had to run so much more of the offense through him.

He showed us that he has these skills.

And

I'd want to see where this goes with him.

I thought he was really taking a big step this year.

So I wouldn't be in a hurry to be moving on from him.

I'm going to take you a step further.

That's the guy I think the Spurs should get

over Durant.

The Spurs conciliary over Durant.

Be like, are we going to to get Durant?

He's 37.

Let's give up some of the same stuff we're going to give up for Durant, throw some more picks in it, and actually try to get Murphy, who's, you know, hitting his mid-20s, and try to get somebody who's actually more on our timeline, who's going to give us a lot of the stuff we would have wanted anyway.

And I also think last year, I think his value is lower than it should be because he didn't work out all last year because he didn't know if he was getting the extension or not, right?

Then he immediately gets hurt at the start of the season.

Didn't start to look like himself until the last part of the year.

So you're kind of buying low, weirdly, even though you and I both know he's good.

So I don't, I to me, that would be the Bridges guy this year.

Be like, whoa, they gave up X first-round picks for Murphy?

It's like, yeah, that's what they did.

Anyway, Jared Allen, Herb Jones, I have on that list.

Um,

Lamello

is he possibly available?

He has to be possibly available, doesn't he?

I don't know.

It's the same thing with Atlanta with Trey Young, where they're always like, he's not available.

Yeah, but wasn't he available?

Was he?

Was he ever available?

Did anybody ever come close to getting Trey Young?

No, but wasn't that like the DeJante thing?

It's like, hey, we'll see what the market is for either one of these guys.

And

they end up doing the DeJante deal to try to salvage that deal that

did not work out.

Zion?

He should be available.

I don't know what to make of the latest round of stuff that his name is caught up with here.

Me neither.

So I just never know what to do with it other than not have a definitive answer, speculating on something I don't know anything about other than what I've read, what everybody else has read.

However, having said that, I think they're scared to death that he's going to be like healthy and a star somewhere else.

And I think the Anthony Davis thing with the Lakers, I think Chris Paul leaving there.

I think there's even like a Baron Davis thing where it's like, as soon as we move on from the guy, I don't think it's a smart way to do business because I just would not want to do another season where I have to figure out, like, hey, if Zion's healthy all year, it's really good, makes it the second round of the playoffs and has like comeback player of the year and all this shit, good for him.

We've done it multiple years here.

We are held hostage by this guy

because everything's in a holding pattern.

And it's not like it feels like,

you know, everybody, every year, everybody comes out and they say the right stuff.

He's like, oh, he's doing this.

And it's way more about core now, which he understands.

And it's like, oh,

she has a chef.

You know, like, shut the fuck up.

It's similar to C Web in Washington in the 90s,

where

you kept talking yourself into him year after year.

And then finally, we're like, fuck it.

Wes on Sol just came in.

It's like, fuck it.

We're trading him for Mitch Richmond.

I can't take it anymore.

Let if, and if he ends up turning into the guy we think he is, it's just not going to be here.

Then, of course, he goes to Sacramento and immediately becomes awesome.

That's a good one.

I mean, the Weber career is still one of the strangest things ever.

I mean, to be

taken number one overall.

He could have been, he could have just played next to Shaq and Orlando for 10 years, and it would have been fascinating.

And it never happens.

And then he ends up on that awesome Golden State team, and he's only there for a year and bulldozes a way out because it's like Don Nelson.

And then ends up on this crap Washington team for years.

And I don't think he acquitted himself that great in a bunch of different ways either.

But then he goes to Sacramento and finally finds the right team.

Took nine years from the eight years from the finding the right team.

I can't remember how many years.

Um,

all right, all the other guys.

It's funny, though, when you lay out all the possibly available guys

and you get to like

you know

Cam Johnson, Norm Powell, Pertle, Drew Holiday, Porzingis, Daniel Gafford, Fusevich, DeRosen, DeAndre Hunter, R.J.

Barrett.

Like, there's a lot of guys at like reasonable contracts.

So maybe that's the case for it being like the craziest summer ever.

There's a lot of guys in that like 20 to 25 million range that you could just see, you know, becoming musical chairs.

Because I saw one of the Toronto things, and,

you know, I I don't know.

It feels a little overstated.

It's like, oh, Messiah really likes Giannis.

I'm like, oh, he's the GM that likes Giannis.

Oh, no shit.

He's always liked him.

Wanted to draft him.

He's always liked him.

2013 was what really wanted him.

I love it when it's a guy who's had the belt.

At one point, it was understood he's the best player in the world.

And then you hear the things, be like, that GM's always liked that guy.

It's like, holy shit.

No wonder he got that job.

He's going to realize for the special ones.

And then I saw the proposal.

It's like, so now the Bucks are just the Toronto Raptors.

Right.

But But

what's the fucking point of that?

There is no point.

There isn't.

Although, those Raptors, man,

they tried to tank and

their spirit was too fierce.

That team, look at how they closed the regular season.

That team played hard.

Had a really good hard time.

You really focused on it.

Yeah, because I desperately wanted to, I wanted to go under because Raptors fans were so fucking annoying.

Shocker.

When you and I did the preview preview about them in the summer.

Right.

And we were like, wait, you guys think they're going to be good?

Yeah.

And then they went over by like a half a game because at one point it was like a lock under.

Really trying for two straight butts.

Right.

And then they got over because they kind of

played much better.

Like whenever you went in to face Toronto, it's like they're actually going to play better than you are

because they're just responding.

And these young dudes are out there balling the whole time.

So then it was like this big victory lap.

And it was like, you know, people that get mad about the over-under, unless we see like a number 50 and we go, hey, I think they have a 35-win team.

It's about the number.

And on top of everything else, everything we said about the Raptors and our lack of like thinking that this team was going to figure this whole thing out this year and be like a competitive team in the East, which is what some of the arguments that we were seeing.

It's like, forget over-under 28, 27 and a half, whatever it was.

You think they're going to be good?

So it wasn't great.

And it's expensive.

It's an expensive team.

Yeah, some of the fun stuff for this summer,

like, how does Phoenix get out of this giant 20-foot hole they dug for themselves?

I don't think they'll be able to, but they're going to try.

Can the Lakers either get a center or turn Reeves into a center, right?

If they feel like a center.

Is it going to be a center that you could play in a game like with the speed and pace that we saw today?

Yeah.

I mean, it's going to be funny because because whoever they get

like everybody's going to be like awesome

here in la

like it doesn't matter there's a center right now 57 win ceiling right now there's a center right now that lakers fans can't stand or have never seen him play that much and as soon as he's a laker i'm gonna be like

look out dude look out

we got nick richards um

New Orleans, one way or the other, I think is going to be that's the team where I'm like, you could tell me any direction and I would believe it.

Well, I don't know if it's different now post-Griff, but Griff was about as

straightforward as ever at the close of last season.

So not this one we just finished up, but remember he was talking about we got to blow it up.

Yeah, he basically is sitting there going, we can't come back like this.

And it's like, all right, well, you know, I guess you made the DeJante deal, but that wasn't really what we were thinking about.

You know, what he shouldn't have said that.

That'd be like sitting at a poker table and going, I have to go in on a hand soon because I've been sitting here too long, not going in on any hands.

The table's like, okay, good to know.

But that might be ownership, though.

That very well could be the ownership thing that we always need to factor in.

It's like, okay, cool.

You're in charge of all this, but you're not.

So you can say whatever you want and take trade calls and all this stuff.

But like, if that, if Zion still feels like he's too important to that team and there's this fear of him being somewhere else, I don't know.

Maybe they run it back again, but geez.

Is Cleveland going to toss away last year and say, let's run it back?

Or are they actually going to do something?

I'm watching that.

What's SA do?

What's San Antonio doing with their number two?

What's Boston going to do to shed payroll?

And then the only other one we didn't talk about, and I don't really know the answer, is there a way for Denver to go up a level?

Sorry.

Keeping Jokic, Murray, Gordon, and Brown.

They're kind of handicapped with the picks they can trade.

They kind of have to hope somebody gets excited about Michael Porter Jr., but now you're taking somebody else's problem back,

or you're trying to split Porter into two guys.

Other than that, not a lot of moves that are possible with the way the salary cap works.

And I don't know how they get better.

Is this the best you felt about the Nuggets at any point in the season?

Today?

Right now, with the season over?

It might be.

It might be.

I think they have to hope somebody gets excited about Porter with two years left on his deal.

It's the only thing I can think of.

Yeah, because I had made the mistake of like talking about Porter Jr.

and going like, why is ownership so enamored with this guy?

Just because of where he played in school.

And then the reality is he had spent more time with the connection of Missouri.

So that was a mistake by me.

But then when I thought about it more, it's like, okay, now explain to me why, though, you would be like, we can't trade that guy.

We can't.

We've passed that point.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know if he's

like, it feels like Porter, if you're trading him,

it's not for this other piece.

It's like, holy shit, like, I feel totally different now about Denver.

It's probably some other guy that has baggage.

I mean, this feels a bit like a Gilbert Arenas Richard Lewis thing.

Right.

I was just thinking that.

It's like a Kuzma and Pat Conaton for Michael Porter type of trade where you're just going to, what was that trade?

So they get two guys back?

Although there is the Jokic bump.

Like, what does Kuzma look like running around next to Jokic?

Docs always like Porter.

Probably still expensive.

So not great.

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well that's all stuff we have looking at anything else you want to hit before we go tires season two yeah let's hit that um so i didn't really like tire season one oh

wasn't a huge fan um watched a couple episodes because our guy shane was in it And it just felt like they didn't know what the show was and they didn't know how to use Shane.

And I just, it didn't totally work for me.

And then a couple people in my life told me, you got to check out Tyra Season 2.

They figured it out.

I'm like, all right.

They figured it out.

The show, the show is excellent.

I loved it.

I loved season two.

I did not like season one.

I love season two.

And you liked it too.

I love season two.

I because it really feels like the show's going for it.

Yeah.

In a way, where I don't know.

I mean, maybe it's because Gillis is this much more famous a year later.

Uncomfortable.

It seems like he's better on the show, too.

Like, they know how to use him now correctly.

Yeah, and I think I like,

well, his characters will, but it's Steve Gerbin.

Yeah.

I don't know if they call him.

Like, I was watching his thing with Seth Meyers.

So Shane is like sitting next to Steve.

And Steve's like doing all of these things, but he's not trying to be funny.

They're just him being nervous.

And it makes it it that much fucking funnier.

Yeah.

And he's he's like stumbling through something, and Seth Meyers is like, What's going on with you?

And he's like, Oh, it's my first time.

He's like, First time talking ever.

And then he sees the thing of water and didn't realize it was there, and he got really excited.

And what's so funny about it, and I think whenever you're thinking about how a TV show fits together, it's like, What's the chemistry going to be with all of these guys?

And

the joy that Gillis seems to get out of watching Steve be in the show, like whatever the background is with these two dudes, like, and I'll see this stuff

with Gillis's podcast and they talk about Steve, whether he's there or he's not there, and then they play these videos of him.

It's like they're buddy that they just can't stop fucking laughing at.

And they've captured that in a really great way on a TV show because there's so many people who can say their dynamic would be, oh, we're really funny.

And it would just be like you and us hanging out.

They've pulled off the rare success of our workplace is a show.

Everybody's walking around thinking that, saying that.

Most everybody's wrong.

And look, they're great writers.

They're all pretty funny guys.

I mean, I think Gillis is, you know, I've been in the tank for him now for a bunch of years, but

they have something here that I think is very hard to execute.

And watching them do interviews together, especially the Seth Meyer stuff, like watching Gillis fucking like dying laughing at his buddy being late night TV.

And he's not laughing because he's killing these one-liners.

He's laughing because of who this dude is.

Right.

And he thoroughly enjoys him.

Yeah, right, right.

So sometimes this will happen where they don't totally figure out the show and how everybody works together for a year.

Like Parks and Rec was like one of the most famous examples of that.

Like they didn't really get the show going until season two.

This one just feels like they recalibrated how much Shane should be in it.

And they basically increased his usage rate.

I think they looked at his stats stats from season one.

They're like, wow,

he had the fourth highest usage rate on our cast.

We got a, it's like every five minutes, can just Shane do something?

And they've unleashed him.

And some of it just feels like he's doing like leftover bits from his stand-up, but in a good way, where he's just doing these little, little jags or like these little analogies that'll use.

But yeah, I fucking loved it.

I was laughing my ass off.

And I never laugh when I watch stuff, like very rarely, to the point that my daughter was upstairs and kept like, What are you laughing at?

What's going on down here?

And I was like, I don't know.

This tires.

It's really good.

Make me laugh.

So, anyway, kudos to them.

It's really good.

It's really good.

And there's just, again, Gillis kind of has that way with me now that Chappelle had.

And, you know, some of the Will Farrell stuff that was just funny is like he would find a way or a phrasing.

And then when they get their bonus checks at the beginning, and Gillis is like, I'm going to buy a gun.

And it's just, it's just hilarious.

It's so so fucking funny.

And I love that Thomas Hayden Church is his dad, and he shows up and that first scene, and he's trying to get Gillis to hit on the waitress.

And then she walks away.

And Thomas Hayden Church is like, you looked ripped.

Then he's like, she heard that.

He's like, of course, she heard it.

You said it so loud.

He's like, do you think she's going to forget what I look like?

Just walking away.

So like having Gillis's dad be this guy that's actually like pretty successful.

You know, there's just adding adding more and more layers to the whole thing, which is

Vince Vaughan, too, is another one where they're just smartly bringing people into the universe quickly and then getting them out.

Right, Goose making an appearance.

Yeah.

I think it's really, really fucking funny.

And his love interest this season

was one that shouldn't have worked.

And they had like great chemistry and it was super funny every time they were in a scene.

It's really good.

I was also surprised it was 12 episodes because usually, you know, they usually these things are like eight but uh they're like 12 25 minute episodes but huge thumbs up from me uh also

we know gillis is an athlete

i gotta be honest with you when i saw him work in the post

oh when they were playing the horse yeah but he he had a little post move in there i was like holy shit like that's your that's your 90s four

like he's you could just tell immediately and i'm an evaluator of basketball as you are.

We've been doing this a long time.

Yeah.

The way he sealed and turned that strong shoulder, I'm like, fucking A, this guy, I wish we had seen more.

That's my only critique of season two: I'd like to see more post-game.

Season three, maybe an intramural football game or some softball, some tires softball, like a tires rival.

That would be good.

Yeah, because there would be on for a while.

Yeah, because Shane's character, that guy in real life, is playing full-on tackle football with no insurance on the weekends in some men's league.

Right.

Yeah, it was a pleasant surprise.

I'm rarely pleasantly surprised anymore because sometimes I'll dive into these, like, and my expectations are fully where they should be.

But in this case, it's like, oh, they figured it out.

This is great.

I'm so glad I clicked onto this.

Anything else before we go?

You got Tuesday, Thursday this week for you?

Yeah, we actually do have Bucci.

So you're home for hockey.

Bucci's coming.

Just tell him to do his thing again about McDavid with the no rings thing.

Because it was really good.

I didn't do it justice.

Yeah, I guess you didn't do a great job of that.

I did like a B-minus job.

No, I'm excited.

I really like Bucci, man.

So it's good to have him come on, and I'll lay out quite a bit in that one.

Because I just watching Kappin in those first two nights, I was like, dude, is Kapnan good?

And then I looked up his stats.

I was like, I know he's had a few stops.

Something about him I really like.

Did you see Murab last night?

I didn't.

I didn't.

I had a big dinner.

That's it for O'Malley.

Another UFC superstar is coming going.

So, what?

He had lost to the guy who kissed him on the back of the head, right?

He lost to Murab twice.

Yeah.

Oh, that's Murab, yeah.

My bad.

Yeah, I'm not super locked into the UFC right now.

I don't know what's going on.

Maybe I'm less hospitalized.

You took a Pereira last hard.

I did.

You don't have a guy.

Maybe because I'm in it, you know?

Like,

I'm training twice a week, and it's like, I don't know.

What are you doing?

A Muay Thai?

Yeah.

So I can't, I can't like,

maybe that's my, you know, I remember there was this 311 documentary that I watched, and they interviewed this guy who may not have had a mailing address.

And were like, What kind of music do you like?

He's like, and he had a guitar, I think.

And he was like, I don't like anyone.

Because they were like, Have you ever heard of 311?

He's like, No, I don't listen to music.

And they're like, You don't listen to music, but you have a guitar.

Guitar?

Yeah.

And he's like, I don't want anyone's style to influence me.

I don't want anyone else.

I don't want to listen to anyone else because then it's going to change what I'm able to do.

So maybe that's why I'm not watching as much UFC.

Who knows?

Muay Ty, like

how, what's the level?

Like, where do you need to get to?

What are you learning?

How have you gotten better?

Dude.

How many months have you been doing it?

Maybe two years.

But

I did it when I was really young,

but it wasn't like, you know, I'd get wrapped up like a fucking pretzel.

I was a very big kid.

Pretty skinny, Bill.

And then,

you know, I started working with a coach.

So it's usually like a few different coaches that come down.

And then, you know, you learn moves.

You try to get your cardio going.

I love learning moves.

I love new moves.

And then you spar.

And, you know, every one of the coaches could kill me in two seconds if he wanted to.

But it's sometimes harder sparring.

Sometimes it's a lot of light sparring.

And then sometimes we'll see, like, we had a big thing that we were working towards.

It's like, let's see if I can last 10 rounds.

You know,

I think we went three minute rounds.

Jesus.

We went three three minute rounds, one minute in between.

And I had no idea.

I was like, I don't know if I'm going to make it.

And I did.

I probably wouldn't tell the story if I didn't.

Yeah, I probably would tell the story if I didn't.

Because there was another time where he was like, I'm just going to punch you as many times as I can to see if you quit.

And I was like, oh, I'm not going to quit.

And then I quit in like two minutes.

I just couldn't fucking get this guy off of me.

So it sucked.

Where did he punch you?

Everywhere.

But not like, you know, he's not like taking full

headphones.

I've got a mouthpiece in.

I've got headgear.

And, you you've got the shin pads and stuff.

And,

you know, he wasn't like, he wasn't trying to kill me.

He was trying to see if he could get me to get so flustered that I had to just say, time out, time out.

That's what OKC was doing in Indiana today.

Perfect bookend.

But yeah,

it's really just, it's a great exercise, except for the days where I think like I have a tornado MCL.

The calf tear wasn't a fun day.

That hurt a lot.

And I'm not like getting clocked, clocked.

You know, if I went up to like a gym in LA with like guys that really do this and are trained to be fighters, I'd get fucking killed.

So, you know, I'm not even, but it's more like a workout that I like.

We have working girl on the rewatchables tomorrow night.

I don't know if you've seen it.

Sigourney Weaver, Melanie Griffith, Harrison.

I remember it, but that's not a rewatchable for me.

It's pretty good.

Who's voting on these?

It's a pretty pretty beloved movie.

There's a lot of excitement for it.

You sent me the to-do list.

You let me pick a couple, right?

Yeah, you're going to come on soon.

We don't have to say what it is, but we did pick a movie.

Should be good.

I think Van's going to be the third, it seems like.

Soulman?

No, I don't think it's going to be Soulman.

I don't know if Soulman's available on any

streaming platforms.

That's my new pet peeve of all time are these movies that are just not available anywhere where we have all of these streaming platforms plus YouTube, plus Pluto and Tubi, all these things.

I don't understand how movies can disappear.

I should be able to queue up Eddie and the Cruisers or Kiss of Death.

Be able to do rewatchables.

Kiss of Death only came out 30 years ago.

It's got major stars in it.

How is it just gone?

You can't find Kiss of Death anywhere.

Gone.

How to watch Kiss of Death?

No, you're not going to find it.

I do this once a week because I'm waiting for it to come back.

So CR and I can

do Kiss of Death and it's just not available.

There's like some YouTube version of it where it's flipped and it's got like weird subtitles and it's just the visuals are way off.

It's not available.

Nick Cage, one of his great movies, just gone.

Who knows what it is?

I had it on, because when I worked at the music shop back in high school, upstairs was a video rental place.

So they used to just like be cleaning them out.

And every now and then they'd be like, do you want any?

And so I got you grabbed kiss of death.

Yeah, I took a box of like 40 movies back up to campus.

I think it was my sophomore year because I would like work over Christmas break or whatever, pick up some hours.

You know, it goes.

And I had, I was like the go-to guide, but people would just shock, be like, who the fuck would put together this kind of movie collection?

It's like, no one.

No one did it.

These were all free.

They were free.

They were free.

And dudes watch movies.

And so I had the air up there, which is probably not on the rewatchable list with Kevin Bacon.

And the number of times I watched that movie, because you just throw it in to fall asleep,

I watched the first half of that movie probably more than any single human on the face of the planet.

Like, you ever watch Kevin Bacon?

Definitely watched it more than him.

It's a bit like the movie Ty thing.

Why does he have to watch the U.S.?

I mean, he's living it, right?

He knows what it was like on those shooting days.

So I don't know.

I like to think about that just as an aside.

What have I done more than any person

in the world?

What do you think?

Do you got any ones that you wonder?

Well, for me, it could be watching the air up there.

It's not great.

I'll admit it.

It's not like you wouldn't introduce me.

Hey, is my buddy Ryan?

He's watched The Air Up There, or at least the first half more than any other person.

This would be a good podcast, the movie you've watched, you feel like you've watched the most

more than all other humans.

I think mine's 48 hours.

If it's on

the bottom, I just get, I'm like, fine.

We're about to hang out outside the garage overnight.

Eddie's going to take a nap in the backseat.

I'm in for another half hour here.

Do you think anyone's written more words about 90210 than you?

Probably, yeah.

Probably like recappers.

I think I wrote, I think, I think I did probably the most karate kid stuff.

I feel like I had that corner.

No, who's talked about heat more than you?

Well, CR is in on that too, though.

Did the studio?

Sure, okay.

But do you think the studio spent more time discussing the movie Heat, whether it was to buy the script, then during production, casting, all the stuff that goes into it?

Than CR and I have spent talking about it?

I don't think that's close.

I think you beat the studio.

So who else is there?

There's another movie that we've spent a lot of time talking about that we've done on the Rewatchables already, but I actually like it more even than when we did it on the Rewatchables, is the Miami Vice 2006 movie with Colin farrell that's like its own

fan club at this point because that movie gets better every single year and i have no idea why it's one of the few movies that has improved in quality each year now 2025 i think it's the best i've ever felt about it and you can't say that about a lot of movies where each year that passes you feel better about the movie that i think that's number one for me i don't know if you watched it recently

i haven't i was trying trying to kind of know-sound me.

I know.

I'm sorry.

I wanted to look up the rotten tomatoes for the air up there.

So I wasn't being.

What was it?

I know, but I wasn't being a very good co-host.

That's on.

I blame myself.

You were looking up something.

You get you hate when I look up stuff on the pod.

Every now and then, when you start throwing around second apron shit, I'm like, let me, let me make sure.

But it's lost cause.

And then I get a text from Bobby Marks like the next day going, here's why that wouldn't work.

Damn it.

Yeah, Bobby Marks,

I think he's just made it less fun for the rest of us because he's so on it in every single aspect of the cap.

We can't compete.

No, it's made me think about like getting back to understanding all of it again because but even if you tried to do it, you would never be close to the level he's already at.

It's daunting.

No, no, it is very daunting.

And I think the problem is we could always default to like third teaming it.

Like that was my favorite move.

I know you loved it too.

Like, well, does that work?

You'd be like, hey, third team it, dude.

There'll be somebody there.

And now it's like, you guys can't third team it the way you used to, buddy bobby marks just comes in like will hunting

and we're like the professor and you should say you know how fucking easy this is for me

it's a fucking joke that's what this is

you're third team in it fuck you

it is amazing the team the team gets knocked out bobby marks has a tweet with this elaborate snapshot of their entire cap situation for the summer that has all these different categories.

Just like, uncle, I feel stupid even talking about it now.

He's really good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's he's sent me a couple cleanups where he was like, hey, the thing you guys are talking about, it can't happen.

We're like, fucking, I don't know that I care anymore, Bobby.

I used to care.

You ruined it.

I used to care, and now I don't know that I do.

Because I know when we're, I mean, whenever I go on the trade machine now, it never works.

Do me a favor.

What?

Will you give the Miami Vice movie, just give it a give it a whirl?

Nobody loves Colin Farrell.

Just give it a test drive.

It's been a while.

Just give it a test drive.

Just try it.

I didn't even give it a test.

I didn't even look at it.

I wouldn't have watched that movie.

That's not my kind of movie.

No, give it a test drive.

All right.

We're going to say goodbye to our audience on YouTube.

We're going to thank Gahal and Eduardo.

I'm going to remind people: Rewatchable is coming with

Working Girl on Monday night.

Rosillo did not approve of that choice, but Rosillo will be on at some point pretty soon on the Rewatchables.

And then Rosillo has Tuesday-Thursday podcast, and we'll see how long the finals goes.

Good to see you, Rosillo.

Thanks, Bill.

Thanks, man.

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