Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

You're listening and watching the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, our friends, America's number one sportsbook.

And they've made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after a tip-off.

Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel Sportsbook app and build your own bet slip, then sit back, relax, track the outcome of your parlay right in the app.

And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more.

If the ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode.

For additional details, it must be 21 plus on President Select States.

Gaming problem, call 1800 Gambler, visit rg-help.com.

Coming up, this went from, it was supposed to be a really fun podcast to not a fun podcast at all, but we're going to try to go through it next.

This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.

Cracking open a cold one on a hot summer day is one of the best feelings, but it's even better when it feels like you earned it, like in a friendly little competition.

It's always better when there's something worth playing for.

And Michelob Ultra, a superior light beer is a pretty great prize.

Hmm.

I would, I mean, I would be all tennis for Miklobaltros because that's what I do all summer because

tennis is an actual sport, unlike pickleball.

So, tennis, doubles, singles, whatever.

Let's play for an ultra.

Fill your fridge with Michelobeltra this summer at DoorDash.com.

Enjoy responsibly copyright 2025 and Heiser-Busch, Michelobra Light Beer, St.

Louis, Missouri.

We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.

I have a new rewatch of us coming for you on Tuesday night.

We did Death Wish.

It is big ass 70s month.

I'm going to be on Zach Lowe's podcast on Tuesday, late morning, because he has Tales from the Lottery.

Hopefully we'll find out what happened to Jason Tatum because he got hurt at the end of game four today and it did not seem good.

And we're about to talk about that, as well as one of the craziest lotteries in the history of the week with Joe House and J.

Kyle.

Man, that is all next, first our friends from Pearl Jam.

All right, we're live.

I really wanted to cancel this.

Tonight was not a good night for Celtic fans.

Holy shit.

Really tough loss in MSG.

I don't know how long.

J.

Kyle Mann is here.

Joe House is here.

We're going to talk about the lottery later.

We're going to play off the Knicks Celtics game as well.

Not going to speculate too much on the Tatum thing, but it did not look good.

Worst case scenario is an Achilles.

Best case scenario is like torn ligaments in his ankle or some sort of bad ankle injury.

But either way, like done for the series and God only knows for how long.

What was your reaction when you saw Kyle?

Did you think Achilles right away?

I mean, just I've had a lot of sports injuries, but I'm not going to pretend to know these kind of things.

But the fact that we were arguing about, you know, ankle or not, I mean, the fact that he was neutral and there was the plant and then the reverse angle where you see the pressure and then you just kind of see.

him, his ankle just kind of wobble like the stability gave out, which made me worry.

But you and and i were saying that you know the pain part of it was the interesting reaction because to me

i've never torn that god you know god willing i i don't go go there but uh he his reaction to it was what made me think because every basketball player fears that right i mean it's it's increasingly getting more you know doable and navigable but with surgery and everything but i think his reaction was he knew that's kind of my speculation it was he he knew what it was and it was just that like holy shit why me kind of a thing, less than a writhing in pain type thing.

Yeah, House, usually with the Achilles, the guy almost doesn't seem like they knew it happened and they grab like for something behind their thing.

So I was, I was studying it like, well, he's grabbing the side of his ankle.

Maybe it's not, but it doesn't look great.

And the irony of it was that was one of the best games of his career up to that point.

I mean, he single-handedly kept the Celtics in that game for three plus quarters and was outrageously good.

That's the bummer.

We were being treated finally in this game four to the mano-e-mano that we basketball fans deserve.

We were waiting for a Brunson game and then, you know, Tatum was there to match him blow for blow, shot for shot.

And, you know, that fourth quarter was

getting very exciting down that stretch there.

And that's it.

It's over.

The season's over for the Celtics.

And who knows what happens over the summer and next season.

It looked like the Knicks were about to pull away when that play happened.

And the irony, normal pass to Jalen Brown, who just, you know, just didn't have it the whole night.

He was fouls, turnovers.

And for some reason, the pass just to flex off him goes back to Tatum.

Tatum jumps for it, has the injury.

But the Knicks, you know, it was really just Tatum and White tonight for the Celtics,

even before that injury.

Nobody else really showed up.

The Porzingis minutes were horrible.

The two older guys, Horford and Drew Holiday, brought nothing to the table.

Pritchard didn't really give them the boost off the bench.

And then conversely, Brunson was awesome.

Bridges made some big, big, big little eight, 10-footers.

OG made a couple threes.

Towns had some big minutes, even though he was getting torched on defense.

Robinson had a couple of rebounds.

The Knicks just, God, they just looked like a better all-around team up until the injury.

Yeah, the Porzingas thing was really glaring.

I mean, in every facet, he was slow to the ball on the glass.

But what I noticed was, you know, on the season, it was a lot of Mikhail Bridges, his strengths, his things that he's already pretty good at were just being, you know, exacerbated, I think, amplified in this situation where he's really good at those dribble pull-up twos.

And this is something that goes back to his Phoenix days that I remember in particular, CP3 and he would kill Porzingas with that left to right, where they would sort of go through the middle of the pink, snake through the middle of that pick and roll and get to that dribble pull-up shot.

I mean, he was just killing Porzingas with that because Porzingis wasn't moving laterally really well.

Horford wasn't either, but yeah, 48.1% on the season.

I looked it up, triple pull-up two.

So that's his strength.

And man, he killed him with it.

Yeah, I was worried.

I was really worried about this game for a bunch of different reasons, but the one-day rest for the older guys

on the Celtics versus like having the home game and then having to do it again on Wednesday night.

House, when you're before the injury, you're watching it.

And I was saying to you, I was worried about this game because the Knicks hadn't played a good game in this series yet.

What were the odds they were just going to go through two weeks and not have a good game?

I thought they were pretty good tonight.

They were good, but

the key, and I'm not here to rub it in anybody's face.

If Porzingas isn't effective, then the Celtics, it makes it super duper hard for them to compete.

They just don't have enough dudes.

The Hauser injury turns out to be really impactful.

And if Porzingas is this version of Porzingus, then it's tough because the Knicks do have six dudes.

They have six.

That's exactly the number.

They don't have more.

Maybe even just call it five and a half, but they are dudes.

They're all dudes.

And look, here's the crazy thing to me.

I'm looking at the numbers here.

How did the Knicks get up 13 more shots?

They had 13 more attempts from the field.

I know.

That's right.

They beat them by 12 on the boards.

That's the answer.

It's crazy because the turnovers were pretty even and the Celtics were getting to the free throw line.

That wasn't an issue.

And they both shot, you know, good from three, 38%

for the Celtics, 35% for the knicks those are good good numbers but 13 more attempts because the knicks own the boars and this is the second consecutive game where that happened and you know it just goes it's very basic it goes comes back to like you know your dudes who are your dudes who's gonna go get a rebound when you need it yeah there was one point i looked at tatum and white where it combined 13 for 25 from three

and then The Celtics were still like down by a point.

I'm like, that's not a good sign.

If you had told me that that was going to be the number with six minutes, seven minutes left in the fourth quarter, that those two guys are going to have that and they would still be losing.

So, Jalen roller coaster game.

Uh, before Tatum got hurt, I just thought he was so good on both sides.

I mean, he had

five steals, two blocks.

He was all over the place, just over and over again, attacking towns, attacking towns, attacking towns, and uh, and really kept them in it.

And the irony of what happened late was that it felt like this was going to be, you know, potentially another version of the Jason Tatum game.

He's had a couple of those.

Like he had the game in Milwaukee, he had the game in Philly, but this was, I thought, the best all-around game I had seen him play.

A couple of dumb threes here and there, but for the most part,

was awesome.

Do the Knicks seem like a finals team to you, Kyle?

I mean, based on what's on the board, yeah.

Yeah, I guess that Tatum's going to be down.

Yeah, I thought, I just thought for as brilliantly as Tatum played, though, you know, he was living a tough life.

I mean, you know, nine isolations on the game, and a lot of it was working.

They talked a lot about on the broadcast that, you know, Carl is really vulnerable in drop.

He's really vulnerable side to side, but he is decent at kind of staying down.

And like, he's long enough to contest.

They were talking about how he bothered Durant.

Tatum just kept working hard and he wasn't really getting by him.

And a lot of the shots that he was getting to, he was making them, but he was just kind of doing his thing where he steps backwards.

I don't know.

It seemed like he was burning a lot of calories to just take tough shots.

Sometimes they go in, but that's just kind of the Jason Tatum experience.

But hey, if they all go in and he finishes that, yeah, I definitely think it's a, it's a notch in his like legacy, you know, bullet point list.

Yeah, the offense just fell apart in the last quarter and half of the game where you could just feel it.

You can feel when that the ISO ball stuff starts, the balls, they stop running plays.

They stop going, oh, let's post up holiday in this player.

Let's run a little pick and pop with Derek Way.

And it just becomes all one-on-one stuff, clear out, you know, the one-four kind of offense, which I don't know, House.

Well, that offense fed into a run by the Knicks.

The Knicks scored 70 points in the second half.

They had 37 points in the third quarter.

Brunson made some great, great, great shots.

And the Celtics fell asleep too, a couple of times.

Like they left him open from three.

They didn't switch over in time and they just kind of let him get into a groove because you can kind of always feel when he's about to go on one of of his little runs.

But I thought bridges really helped too.

And it, you know, I didn't think Tibbs did a good job offensively the first three games, but I thought they mixed it up better in this game.

It felt like everybody was a little

more involved.

So this could

go down as we'll see what happens with Tatum, but this could go down as one of the one of the darker Celtic days.

I mean, honestly, because especially the timing of,

you know, not to mention he's at the peak of his career.

He's never had a major injury, Tatum.

And if this is like a

major one,

it doesn't just take him out for this playoffs, but it takes him out for, I think, all of next year too, as he's sitting in his late 20s.

And you just wonder, like, is he going to be able to get back to the point that he was at tonight?

So we'll find out.

The shame of it is the Celtics should have just tanked down the stretch, got themselves into the play-in, lost in the play-in game, and then used a half of a percent chances.

They're like a half percent.

It's a miracle what happens in the NBA.

Miracles happen, Bill says.

It's amazing how it shifted, though, from what you're talking about, Bill, like the conversation that we were on this nice.

And if you're lucky, you get to have this conversation about your career.

And everything has to go right.

And it just speaks to how difficult it is.

But Tatum gets to this point in his mid to late 20s where we're starting to have this conversation about like, well, what other levels are there left?

And now it's like, Do we get to have that conversation again?

You know, now it's shifted to, like, you just spelled it out.

Can he, it shifts to, can he get back?

And yeah, that's, I mean, that's a huge fucking bummer, man.

Because, um, and I was just thinking, I was talking to Howell about this before we got on.

That, um, can you ever remember one night where there were more fan bases that were just absolutely depressed for a wide variety of reasons than tonight?

Because I can't.

Like, I was

somehow House's fan base didn't crack the top two for

the most depressed.

Yeah, well, we'll see what happens with Tatum.

But I, you know, this speaks to A, how hard it, how hard it is to win a title, B, how important injury luck is, and C, how, how hard it is to just put together some really good years in a row.

Like even to be in the finals two years in a row with how basketball is played now and how physical and intense it is.

And, you know, Tatum was playing 40, 43 minutes a night and doing everything.

He was the leading rebounder in the team.

He was guarding Brunson, you know, a few times in this series.

And today he was kind of their best option to guard Brunson.

He was the point forward.

forward over and over again he's attacking the rim i thought when heart tripped him i could i thought that was a dirty play they didn't review it um but he you know he was getting pounded on the whole game and uh

you know you need some luck with this stuff we're gonna take we're gonna take a break for the podcast this episode is brought to you by degree original cool rush deodorant remember last year people got really bad when degree changed their cool rush formula.

One dude even started a petition.

What was up with that guy?

Well, guess what?

Degree listened.

They admitted they messed up.

They are bringing back the original Cool Rush scent.

And thank God.

You've got to love what a brand can own its mistakes.

And it's in Walmart, Target, and other stores right now for under $4.

Grab some.

Find out why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade.

By the way, you should put that on, especially we're about to hit the summer.

It's getting sweaty in the summers.

The original degree Cool Rush is back and it smells like victory for all of us.

The real reason you guys are on is because we're going to talk lottery.

But for the, I'm going on Zach Lowe's podcast tomorrow.

We're going to, Zach went to the lottery and I'm basically going to set picks and rebounds for him as he's going to talk about what it was like to be behind the scenes for that.

So House, you had.

What were your odds?

You had the second best odds?

Well, it was a flat 14% for the three worst teams.

That's how they flattened out the the odds to disincentivize egregious tanking.

But, you know, we're allowed to curse on this thing.

Please curse.

It doesn't fucking matter.

It doesn't fucking matter that the fat thumb comes out when the fat thumb comes out.

Now, I certainly understand.

You know, there's a code and it's impossible to rig the balls except for the last 30 fucking years have had a stunning number of miracles.

I mean, let's go back to 2011 when the NBA owned the motherfucking New Orleans Hornets.

And somehow, miraculously, they find an owner.

David Stern vetoes a trade for Chris Paul to go to the Lakers because it's going to tilt the competitive balance of the league.

David Stern vetoed it for basketball reasons.

They finally find a buyer for the New Orleans Hornets.

Somebody steps in and buys it from the NBA.

Lo and behold, the New Orleans Hornets get the number one overall draft pick in the league, and it's Anthony Davis.

Can you believe it?

Can you believe the good luck of the, I mean, we'll just go through it.

I'm not going to sit here and do the whole thing, but 2013, 2014, back-to-back Cleveland number one overall picks.

And LeBron comes back in 2014, and that number one pick turns into Kevin Love.

Man, that's interesting.

That's some interesting history right there.

2019.

You forgot about 2011 when they had the decision, and then the year after Cleveland won the lottery and got Kyrie Irving.

I mean, I didn't forget.

I'm just saying,

I don't want to subject us to the entire litany here, but I did have Tim Donaghy with me downstairs helping me remember some of these things.

We were kind of mapping out, you know, some of the very interesting thing.

It's really a league of miracles, this NBA of ours.

But, you know, yes, New Orleans trades Anthony Davis to the Lakers and miraculous.

It's another miracle.

I mean, you know, a league full of miracles.

They jump.

New Orleans jumps from the seventh spot in terms of the pre-draft where they should have been right up to the number one.

So the best way to get the pick is to trade your best guy to the Lakers, and then the miracles will align.

But first of all, you're a son of a bit.

Sacrifice a fan cat.

Yeah.

You're the son of a bitch who said that this was all going to happen back in March.

I know.

House and I did a word.

We had a worse contracts pod, and I did a 35-second spiel on how we had to bet on Dallas to win the lottery because it was clearly how we were headed.

It's all in one of the podcasts.

And House is like, come on, that's crazy.

It's like, it's not crazy.

It's like 101 odds.

Let's bet it.

Of course, we didn't bet it.

No, we didn't bet it.

He was 40 to 1 today.

Should have bet it.

Come in.

I had a whole conspiracy bill outfit I was going to wear that my daughter helped picked out, but I'm so depressed after the Tatum thing.

I'm not, I'm not doing any props.

I'm just anticipating.

I do want to cry on your on your props yeah i uh i'm not gonna wear the props but um this was just a hilarious outcome i just i couldn't believe it when they when they leapt into the top four first of all who who did the uh who did it for me as band kevin diagandi he screwed up he said philly lost their pick and philly had it we hadn't even found out what was going to happen

and then philly goes in there so we have three people jump into there and it's dallas san antonio philly and then charlotte was the only one that belonged.

And it's just, we go to commercial, and it's like,

come on, Dallas isn't going to win this.

Come on,

there's no way, there's no way this is going to be the outcome.

Stop it.

Come on.

What were you thinking as we got to the final four, other than our buddy Charks?

Well, I was going to say if you saw like a live satellite image, I'm sure there were just like fires that just sort of lit up all across the map during that commercial break.

Oh, God.

I noted in my notes, they are pretty funny here.

Well, at first, I was just like, why is Zion repping the Pelicans?

And then Chicago, well, when Dallas started to climb

at like 10, I guess, I noted it.

I was like, whoa, I was like, even then, I was, and then as they just continued, you know, the Wizards obviously plummet, the Jazz plummet.

It reminded what Nico has done here, it reminded me his ability to.

you know, navigate is the heavy, heaviest quotes imaginable.

For him to go from that to where we were tonight, it reminded me of my wife and I were on the interstate in like a torrential downpour one time, and this minivan lost control and hydroplaned and somehow miraculously avoided hitting another car.

And the minivan we watched go up ahead of us, and there happened to be a ramp for a tow truck on the side of the road.

And the minivan came to a complete stop unharmed on the ramp on the side of the road.

And we were like, how the fuck?

It was like final destination.

That's the equivalent of what Nico just did.

Like he somehow survived.

Did he survive?

I think we've opened up a whole, like, there's a whole other slew of questions and options from here.

But I mean, it's just, it's brutal.

I mean, I can't help but think of the fans that have,

I don't know, what is ethical?

Rob tweeted out that there are no basketball gods and this is proof of it.

And that's kind of how I'm feeling right now.

I'm feeling

the

this is the all-time night for me to feel that way.

Uh

yeah, listen, they had 8.5% odds to move into the top four.

and 1.8 to win the thing.

So when we went in a commercial, I was like, all right, 8.5 makes sense.

Charlotte had 14.

Charlotte's probably going to win.

Dallas will get like two, three, or four.

I was more mad that Philly somehow got, you know, got their bacon saved and ended up staying in the top six.

I think that was another thing, house, for conspiracy build.

They couldn't let OKC have the seventh pick in the draft.

They had to maybe do something on that.

I mean, I'll just interrupt you for a second.

This

another miracle.

Daryl Maury and Nico Harrison both get rewarded.

Two of the top three worst contract responsible for the worst outcomes in terms of their franchises during the course of this season.

And both, it's just a miracle that both of them land where they land.

I mean, JKM had to use a real life miracle to make the analogy to the miracle.

I like Jeers overtext, Joe.

I don't know if you're willing to say it, but yours was pretty good.

I'll give you the actual numbers.

0.014 for that top three to go the way it did, which I think, I think, says it all.

And Utah somehow falls to five.

And House's stupid team, the Wizards, who were either one of the worst or second worst teams of the season.

And they fall to six.

And you can't make this shit up, House.

I mean, I had the good fortune of going on with Kyle on the NBA draft show last week.

And he was very kind.

He said, let's do a state of the wizards.

Within all reason, we think that they're going to get one of the top four picks like at the very outside you know what pick we didn't discuss under any circumstances whatsoever the sixth fucking pick we didn't talk about number six you didn't talk about three teams jumping you we we didn't we didn't because we

were four teams yeah I thought we played the karma game pretty wisely.

I mean, you know, we were conceding like, probably not the first.

Let's talk about some of the lower guys, but I just didn't conceive of this outcome, house.

I'm sorry, man.

Really sorry.

Well, because it's inconceivable, really.

Can we go through some of the Dallas stuff?

Topic number one.

Did Dallas not win the trade?

They traded Anthony Davis

or they traded Luka Donchich for Anthony Davis and Cooper Flag.

If I presented that trade to you in January, we at least would have had a phone call about it, House.

Sure.

I'm not saying they intentionally won the trade.

I'm just saying history, the way it works out.

It's like history.

All right, if we're going to trade Luka Doncic, we get Anthony Davis and Cooper Flag.

It really, you know, just makes you really wonder because it was a no-bid trade, right?

It wasn't, he didn't go around and canvass the league.

There's not a lot of evidence that other teams were consulted.

What would you be willing to give up for Luka Donchic?

A trade that everybody thought was the fishiest trade in the history of the league, but it happened.

And now it's paid out for Dallas.

Kyle,

look

Anthony Davis and Cooper flag for Luka Doncich is in the realm of a fair basketball trade.

Yeah, I mean, I don't bristle so much at that.

Yeah, I'm just like, yeah, we have something for now and we have something in Cooper Flag, odds are he'll be ready to go sooner than later based on everything that we've seen.

But, you know, you can kind of bring him up.

Didn't seem happy, by the way.

Yeah.

I didn't.

Did you notice the look on his face?

Two things.

Two things.

First of all, there's no way that Nico doesn't take Cooper, right?

That would be the funniest thing.

He took

Sale defense.

Would that be the funniest thing?

That would be the funniest thing.

But the second thing is, Dallas isn't a great fit for a brand new play.

Like, the

only other young guy there, timeline-wise, is Lively.

Like, they're super in transition.

They don't have a point guard.

They don't have a starting point guard right now.

Kyle, just make the 45-second case that how much better he is than the next possible prospect in the lottery.

Like, you have to take him, right?

Yeah, the simplest way to put it is he's the most well-rounded prospect of my, I mean, other than he's on a short list, I would say him and LeBron.

I'm saying, but LeBron had the shooting issues.

He had a lot of things to figure out, even though the highs are higher with some of the guys, you know, but it's just Cooper is the most well-rounded prospect of my lifetime.

That's the simplest way to put it.

And the other guys in this.

And he has offensive upside to max out in some different areas.

And we just haven't seen a lot of guys like that.

So the big question for the Mavs for me is just what's nailed down?

I mean, are they going to just completely start over?

You you know because it's like Kyrie's coming back what what is out of the realm of possibility for them in terms of what they could what they could do to just uh to you know springboard off of this well well and the other thing with him he just turned 18 like yeah he grew because he's just turned 18 I mean he's a young young young fellow but go ahead right he's still taking like the long naps and getting up at three in the three in the afternoon I think he can play right away next year and be good.

So for what they're, what they're trying to do, the question for me now is, could they flip gafford or lively and try to get one more score and try to buy time and and just be in the playoff picture and then hope that kyrie can come back april range and be in really good shape i do wonder there's two trades actually there's three trades and i don't think they should trade flag i think they should keep them i'm just gonna you gotta say that yeah

But would you, would you trade him to get Luca back would be the first trade.

That would be the funniest outcome of all

that's the funniest.

No.

That would be hilarious.

I mean, they'd have to throw in contracts, but like, what would the Lakers do if they called and said, hey, we want Luca back.

We'll give you Cooper flag and some contracts.

Second,

now, can I, I just, I'll do a quick Giannis thing.

That story today, I don't know what the hell that story was about Giannis is now open to discussions about maybe what can happen down the road in the summer and the season.

Did he ask for a trade?

No.

He's actively open-minded, Bill.

Have you never found yourself?

He's opening about his future.

Who the fuck is it?

And by the way, he almost asked for a trade two years ago.

I would assume every player who's one of the best players in the league, who hasn't made the conference finals in four years, and who the second best player in his team just had a season-ending injury and probably isn't playing next year.

I would assume they're probably open-minded about some things about their future.

Did he ask for a trade?

No.

How is this a story?

This is what I call the Monday news thump house.

We have the Friday news dump.

The Monday news.

Actively open-minded.

Monday news thump.

Let's start the news cycle on a Monday morning with a story that's not really a story, but we get a whole day of conversation out of it.

You know who is actively open-minded?

Frank in White Lotus.

Sam Rockwell.

He was actively open-minded.

I was trying to think of a going for that.

Telling you about how actively open-minded I am.

I'm only laughing, so I don't cry.

Great job.

Great job, Giannis.

You could have asked Nico before the lottery, and he would have said he was actively open-minded about getting the number one pick.

It's just like, yeah, well, just.

Wait, so Giannis is open-minded about maybe some other alternatives than playing for a 43 and 39 team?

Really?

It's going to take some time to think about that?

Anyway, if they tried to offer this pick for Giannis,

which would be more on the Thailand timeline that Kyle Mann mentioned.

You said Thailand.

And Thailand.

I it out in the paper for a white guy who looked like me.

They'd have to match some contracts back, but Anthony Davis with Giannis, that's not nothing.

And then the third thing is, and I don't think they should do this either.

So I vote no in the first two trades.

What

would they have to throw in with the number two if you're San Antonio to move up one spot?

Oh, my God.

Now it gets interesting.

If you really, and again, I would not trade flag, but if San Antonio was like, we'll just flip spots and here's a whole bunch of stuff.

Like they have a war chest of picks.

I probably would include anyone except Castle

and obviously Wembanyama.

But I just wonder, like, could Dallas actually turn this into a real haul?

And

you didn't exclude the Aaron Fox?

You're putting him on the table?

Well, what am I going to do with him and Kyrie?

Kyrie's still in the team.

Kyrie ain't playing next year, buddy.

No, I know it's not.

The Aaron Fox could play.

See if Kyrie's ever the same again, but I'm not ready to assume that at his age.

I just think the Mavs, the Mavs are, the more you think about the roster, they are going to have some, they have some dissonance in the Gafford.

I know that's kind of up in the air, the Gafford lively AD

flag thing, even if they did somehow get into the Giannis conversation.

Giannis and AD is fun to think about, but do we talk about the aging curve for Giannis enough, though?

He's 31 years old.

He's a heavily downhill player.

You know, the shooting.

He can't really shoot.

I love him to death, but I just wonder how his game is going to age.

And you just start to think about trading him and what's the upside?

How much time are you really going to get?

I don't know about, I don't know.

Can I ask you a Cooper Flag roster question?

Yeah, let's go.

Could you play him at small forward?

Yeah.

Why not?

Totally agree.

Think that's honestly the best spot for him to get.

So they could try it out lively with Anthony Davis and Flag, and that's their front line.

And he could guard,

you know, perimeter scorers, right?

And get away with it.

No, why are you making judgments?

I want to hear Kyle's

defense of Cooper's defense.

If he's going to play that shooting guard spot, you know, that small forward spot.

Larry Bird played it.

He's out guarding.

He's out guarding perimeter players in the modern NBA with the, with the, the slash ability of a lot of the modern NBA.

What's your honest assessment, Cop?

Jacoby and I were texting about this because he noticed that the one thing, if you wanted to nitpick Cooper's defense, is that he does bend at his back a little bit in his posture.

He doesn't sit as low as some of the,

but he is also a generationally special help defender.

And so if you think about having, my God, if you just think about having AD and flag on the floor together, those are two of the best help.

i mean those are two of the best space covering disruptive defenders of the last ever i mean on the same on another thing too is that flag is a really good lob thrower so you're putting on the you're putting another guy on the floor that can throw to ad so those two things are interesting in terms of like guarding the ball i mean he can guard threes and fours i i don't see any problem with that okay okay also he can grow into it maybe he's like a 25 to 20 minutes i i listen There's no centers.

Everybody needs a center.

And if they wanted to shop Gaffer, I mean, ironically the lakers are a team that could use a center maybe we could have a little gaffer austin reeves trade finally and the mavs could throw in more stuff um

i uh

oh the last dallas thing house mentioned it earlier they made the play-in game and won the lottery

they were in the play-in game and won Cooper flag.

What if Memphis had just beaten them?

Then Then they're the eighth seed.

Remember that game?

I think House and I bet on Dallas.

No, Memphis did beat them.

That's how they played.

I think we bet a lot of them.

We bet on Dallas in that playing game.

I can't remember now.

We bet on Dallas definitely to beat Sacramento, but then I think I laid away because the Memphis game was in Memphis and it was like a chance for Memphis to prove that the whole season wasn't a waste.

So I think we decided to stay away.

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn.

As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early.

Your business is on your mind 24-7.

So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do.

That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs.

When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in.

LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights.

Nice.

At the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates.

And with LinkedIn, you can feel confident you're getting the best.

You can even add a hashtag hiring frame to your profile picture and get two times more qualified candidates.

Post your job for free at linkedin.com/slash Simmons.

Terms and conditions apply.

This episode is brought to you by Bleacher Report.

Football is back and downloading the Bleacher Report app puts you in the middle of the action.

Make Bleacher Report your go-to this season for the fastest breaking news alerts covering NFL and college football.

And don't miss a moment with highlights, scores, and live reactions in the app.

Get expert analysis on your favorite teams and the news that you want this season.

Download the Bleacher Report app today.

This episode is brought to you by Viore.

Look, I'm not a big, let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Viore, I got to say, total game changer.

Been wearing a lot.

If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably going to see me wearing some Viore.

Sunday performance joggers that they have.

It's made with four-way performance stretch fabric.

One of the most comfortable things you own.

You will wear them everywhere.

I promise.

All you have to do is go to viori.com slash Simmons and you get 20% off your first purchase with Viore.

V-U-O-R-I dot com slash Simmons.

Enjoy free shipping on all U.S.

orders over $75 plus free returns.

Exclusions apply.

Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

Well, House did this earlier, and I'm going to do my version of

I'm not saying these lotteries were rigged,

but if we ever found out 60 years later that a lottery was rigged, these would be my candidates.

Here's my list.

Number one, Patrick Ewing, New York Knicks, 1985 with the seven envelopes, and whether they froze the side of one of them.

It would have been the easiest one to rig, put it that way.

Number two is the Kyrie Cleveland 2011

after LeBron went to Miami.

Number three was the 2019.

Thanks for trading Anthony Davis to the Lakers.

Now here's Zion Williamson.

Number four was thanks for buying

the New Orleans basketball team.

Here's young Anthony Davis as your prize, 2012.

Number five was the 2014.

Man, LeBron just needs one more asset and he might go back to Cleveland.

Ah, we'll give them number one pick.

And then number six for me would be LeBron in Cleveland in 2003,

sending him

back to Ohio home versus sending him to Memphis.

So I'm not saying the NBA rigs the lotteries.

I'm just saying if we ever found out 60 years from now that there was more than one shooter for JFK and there was one rigged lottery,

those would be my choices.

The magic getting Penny was pretty crazy, or getting Weber ultimately was pretty crazy percentage, too, wasn't it?

Wasn't it down there?

And was it like 4% or something crazy like that?

But I don't know.

But that's that, I mean, that works against your argument, I guess, right?

Any freak sort of movement in the odds?

Yeah, the against the arguments was how San Antonio just got Tim Duncan and victor wembyama somehow right those would be the two

uh san antonio at number two kyle so they're they get lot i mean there's so much basketball news today the knicks are up 3-1 tatum god only knows how bad that injury was we still don't know flag goes to dallas nico harrison i guess saves his job And yet buried in underneath all of this is, oh shit, I hope San Antonio doesn't get another awesome pick.

And they end end up getting number two, which you think is going to be Dylan Harper, right?

Yeah, yeah, I do.

I thought a lot about it.

And, you know, I think for them, if San Antonio does stay in the thinking that we were just talking about, where they are definitely, they could play this a number of ways.

They could play this where they could potentially look at getting a bigger piece because we know Victor is ready to roll.

I mean,

he's ready.

He has been ready sooner than we thought.

You know, he's already on that defensive player of the year, you know, track.

They go and they get Deer and Fox to show their seriousness.

Are they going to make one more move?

But I think taking Harper, if you look at it just in the right now basketball sense, I wrote in our mock draft that just went up.

If you want to check that out, we're going to talk about it more on the Ringer NBA draft show tomorrow.

But he can play with Fox.

He can play.

He can play with any, they can bring him along slowly because he has such great positional size.

But I also think that he's, if they do choose to make a move, I think he's the best asset available.

So he kind of serves both purposes because Harper isn't quite the flag level.

You know, he's probably more on the Cade level of a number one pick type player if flag wasn't there.

But I think he's the most attractive asset for if there's a team out there that is heartbroken, that wants to make a move, that wants to start over, let's say hypothetically, just pulling the name out of the hat, Milwaukee, a great square one starting point.

I think Harper, you know, serves that purpose.

So I think they can do both there.

I don't think I would go any other direction than Harper there.

Hey,

news just broke that Giannis is open-minded about barbecue tonight.

I would also consider Ty.

House.

So did Frank.

House, would you,

what needs to be in a Giannis trade if the number two pick is the prize of the trade to get Giannis?

What else needs to be in there?

Do I have to get Castle if I'm Milwaukee?

Is it number two?

I have to get both?

Am I good with number two and a bunch of picks?

Does Devin Vesselle have to be in that trade?

Who else needs to be in it?

For you?

The hard thing is, like, what are you trying to tell your fans?

Isn't it better to tell your fans, we had an awesome run.

Giannis was with us.

The title that he delivered, we had a once-in-a-generation, once-in-a-lifetime player here.

He was loyal.

He hasn't done anything wrong.

He committed.

He extended.

He extended.

They tried to build a good team for him to compete.

If he goes, I think it's better to just be brutally bad.

I just think it's better to start over as many picks as you can get.

They don't have their own picks, is the problem.

They have to get as many picks as they can.

That's what I'm saying.

They need every pick that they can get and just jettison everybody because otherwise, you know, what's the point of 32 wins?

Like, what's the point of, you know, just Castle, is Castle and Harper on the same, basically the same timeline?

Is that like

a good starting point?

Does that like prime the pump a little bit for what a rehab rebuild looks like?

You're still going to be bad.

I think if those are two, I mean, the league, yeah, the threat, the, the bar,

the bar is such that I think they're still going to be bad enough to to pick.

And, you know, yeah, go get the picks, but if I'm, if I'm Milwaukee in this hypothetical scenario, yeah, I'm trying to get, I'm going to try to get Vassell.

I'm trying to think Johnson seems like he's going to be expendable to whatever they're doing here.

He needs contracts to put in for Giannis trade is part of the problem.

If I'm saying Antonio,

if I think Harper is going to be this good, Wemby's, what is Wemby, like 21?

Like young.

What kind of timetable am I in anyway?

And I'm the king of, hey, if you have somebody who's awesome, the timetable should start pretty soon.

But Wemby's still pretty young.

From Harper's standpoint, like you're absolute ceiling on him.

Could he be the second best guy on the title team?

Like, is that the ceiling or would you say third best guy?

I think he could be the second best.

I mean, if you think the big thing for him is the dribble, pull-up, shooting, if he can shoot the ball off the dribble, because he shot it pretty well off the catch in a really abysmal Rutgers offense.

Like, I cannot emphasize enough how bad he was.

So, they just had the worst coach ever.

I think it's four picks.

I think it's whenever, whenever, I think there are a lot of factors at play.

I think whenever you're a program that doesn't typically have those types of players, I just think they were top heavy in what they could pay for.

I think just the whole rest of the supporting cash just could not.

Their bigs were awful.

They're passing, and it hurt Bailey even more than it hurt Harper.

But yeah, I think if he can improve the dribble pull-up shooting, he gets downhill.

He can pass.

Tom Creen on our show was talking about how he needs to pass with his right hand a little bit better.

But, you know, those are those are nitpicks.

I think he's going to get there.

But, man,

his footwork in the paint is really, really exceptional, really, really

special.

I mean, he shot something like 72% at the rim on like really, really high volume.

Those, that's like, you know, big guy numbers.

So you had for player comps

Braun Harper.

Little, like a little James Harden-ish.

There's some like a weird James Harden in there.

I don't remember what I had in mind.

We both allowed each other the liberty to make our picks, so he would have to explain his thinking on it.

But I kind of, I mean, my one that I was, that I had in my notebook is

I I said that he could thread a needle between Cade Cunningham and Jalen Brunson because his feet remind me of Jalen.

That sounds like James Harden.

He's bigger.

Yeah.

I mean, he's not quite the natural passer that James is, but yeah, his downhill stuff is exceptional.

Yeah.

Would have been really good on the Wizards.

Sorry, House.

Sorry, House.

What do you want San Antonio to do?

Just the long haul?

Yeah.

Just keep adding young pieces.

And you could maybe lure a free agent in two years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And Fox is a tremendous trade asset.

like i you know it's kind of stupid they just acquired him and we're already i'm already ready to trade him but i am ready to trade him yeah but how because they're they that was a wink wink special though what's that mean we'll trade for you now and we'll give you a big contract in the summer or whatever that's already a done

fox yeah he harper and fox can play together i think yeah okay okay all right good but why not i'm i forget who i forget who said this on my pod i really apologize i think it might have been goldsbury I can't remember.

About Fox playing with Sabonis, two lefties rolling off with the throw in the lob.

Was that you, Kyle Man?

Somebody said that.

I think Kirk said that.

I remember.

It sounds like a Goldsbury.

How weird it is to have a lefty driving left, but throwing lobs to a lefty where it's like now you have the Wembinyama and it just like makes more sense for the lobs.

Philadelphia number three.

Oh, one more thing on San Antonio.

So we ended up beefing up those two teams.

We might have lost Jason Jason Tatum tonight for a year.

Cleveland's completely self-combusted.

And the West just, we always have, we go in these phases where it seems like finally the West, we're finally going to get a league with a little more balance.

And now the league feels more in balance than it's ever been.

You know, I think like we're going to have an Indiana, New York Eastern Conference finals, potentially, unless the Celtics can miraculously come back, which I wouldn't necessarily bet on.

But

now you look at like the two best guys in this draft that everybody feels the best about are both going to the West, combined with Lucas still there, et cetera, et cetera.

All right, Philly.

So I asked you to send me a mock draft, Kyle, of just the top six or seven.

And you had Ace Bailey going here to Philly, who is the most polarizing high-draft prospect I can remember.

People don't know what to make of this dude.

And I got to admit, I haven't done the full deep dive of him yet, but pretty unusual.

One of those guys who could have 27 points, zero rebounds, and zero assists.

And that can just be his box score.

Yeah.

I mean, this is one we can kind of, I think your points that you made about him are valid based on what Maury has liked in the past.

I think there's a couple ways to think about this.

If Philly, we got to say what those points were because I was texting them to you.

Yeah, go ahead.

I was saying,

Daryl loves fill the box score guys.

Okay.

He loves like the 18 points, eight rebounds, seven assists, three steals.

And Ace

Ace is kind of the opposite.

And, but, Kyle, you had Ace going to the Sixers anyway, but I thought you had a good case for it.

Uh, well, I mean, if you're thinking about the Sixers, and you, I'll throw this to some of you for you guys for how you feel about what they're going to be thinking about.

You know, are they going to make a serious run at rebooting this in the short term?

I mean, you might as well.

Well, the MB thing's a whole other conversation, but I'm thinking of if you're going to run this back and try one more time, Bailey does fit with what they would be doing because

their touches are spoken for with Embiid, with Paul George, with Maxie, with McCain when he comes back.

Bailey is a guy who, for people who haven't watched him, the most similar guy in terms of his shot diet is Michael Porter Jr.

in the fact that he makes a lot.

He's a non-bases.

He's a tough shot maker.

And I think he's somebody, and one of the, his efficiencies were hurt by what we were talking about before.

He can, he loves to, he's somebody that, like, at the end of the clock, he can just make something out of nothing.

So he has that, but he's also a pretty good athlete.

There was a lot of, Zach and I were talking about his measurement coming in.

There were people that thought he was six foot ten.

I had heard that he was closer to six foot eight and a quarter.

It turns out that's kind of closer to what he is, but he's somebody, he's a supplementary kind of a guy, but he's long and explosive off of one step.

So he can kind of block shots.

But my thing that I was saying to you about Vij, which is what you thought, Vijay absolutely could fit the bill in what you're talking about in terms of he could, he could turn it.

He's somebody that's not going to be really role insistent early on.

He's going to be able to play off the ball.

He's a crazy athlete.

He measured really well.

I think it's six foot five.

I need to get the exact number.

We needed him to get to six foot five to be, I think, the third pick, right?

Because you were worried he was going to basically be like a two guard.

Yeah, we needed him to be a little bit bigger so he could guard basically every position.

I was worried he was going to be like a Ben Gordon type where it's like, oh, he's a great athlete.

It's like, ah, shit, he's like 6'2 and a half.

But no, he's he measured well.

My thing was, I kind of wondered about McCain, Maxie, and Edgecombe together.

Just the way that those guys play together, they're a little on the smaller side.

All three of them are.

And when you're moving forward, but

I could honestly, that one I could kind of go either way, but I thought Ace fit more into what they have right now.

And he could improve a lot over time.

My money would be on Edgecombe.

Just feels like more of a Daryl pick.

Need Mo House, you're not getting either guy.

That's a true story.

By the time we're going to be able to do that, because the Sixers really earned it.

The Sixers really,

they have a vision with their franchise.

They're, you know, in the development.

This is my one question.

And I guess I'll go into the Philly message boards to get this.

What's the track record for this iteration of the Philadelphia coaching staff in terms of development?

Because either Ace or Newcomb, those are both development players.

They're not NBA NBA ready, in my humble opinion.

They can come in and be on the floor, but they're not NBA competitive ready.

So what is, in the first place, Philadelphia has to answer, who are we?

What are we going to do this upcoming season?

Are we going to try and, you know, make a deep run in the playoffs or is this a transition year?

And then question two, how are we going to develop this kid that we're going to get at number three?

Or

do you package three and Paul George and try to get somebody?

Love that.

Love that.

That is that's a Daryl Maury.

It's like, hey, any interest in the last three years of Paul George's contract, but you also get the number three pick in the draft.

And then, you know, I wish Sarudi was on the Zoom quick so I could throw out the Franz Wagner for Paul George and number three.

Oh, that's not fair.

That's not

a not interesting trade.

What about, I mean, Miami needs it more.

I don't know.

But Miami doesn't have any assets other than

nothing.

Miami has nothing.

That's my favorite.

When people list the Giannis teams and they're like, in Miami, Miami, it's like, where the fuck is Miami trading for?

They're checking Bam out of bio for Giannis.

And then Giannis has nobody on his team.

A couple more interesting, interesting things about Philly.

Two GMs saved their jobs tonight, it feels like.

Because if that pick falls to seven, I don't think Daryl gets fired tomorrow, but I think he really needed that pick.

Now, now there's positive momentum in a whole bunch of different ways.

And then Nico Harrison, obviously, we were headed toward, you know, God only knows what.

You know, we didn't talk about this with the Dallas piece.

I forgot to mention it.

I know a lot of Mavs fans.

I won't name two of them that have told me this that

after the Luka trade just did not want to root for the team anymore.

Oh, you don't say that wasn't

plain.

But literally, it was like, I'm out.

And then they got flag.

And they're like, I'm still out.

I don't know if I believe that.

You got a message tonight?

I don't know if I believe that.

I think that's just

somebody being wounded, but I think they come back for flag.

They're going to go through the phase of mad at Nico for it working out for him.

Like, I think we're going to go through that phase, and then they'll slowly be softened into sort of a, I don't know, a blissful nihilism or something.

I don't know.

It just seems like it seems like that's the reaction immediately, right?

It's late night on the BS pod.

Can I say that?

He's the white fit.

I mean, you go from Dirk to Luca to Cooper.

There's a certain through line, a certain commonality there that seems like it might suit the situation.

The league is built around luck.

You can make the worst trade in recent history of professional sports, and then it works out.

You can be playing the best game, one of the best games of your career, and all of a sudden be rolling around in a heap.

Now I'm depressed again.

I can't believe this Jason Tatum thing.

I feel like I'm like one of those things where I'm in shock and it hasn't set in yet.

And then I'm I'm going to look back two hours from be like, How did I do an hour-long YouTube live?

Um, it's called shock, yeah.

Well, could Philly be good next year?

Would be another question.

You said positive momentum.

I'm like, the more we're talking about it, it's like, is it that positive?

Well, if they got McCain, come, they got McCain and the number three pick coming back next year, and then maybe keep your fingers crossed.

Who knows?

Embed, possibly, sort of, maybe.

No,

let's set the over-under for number of games he plays in the regular season, 2025, 2026.

I'll set it at 35 and a half.

How yeah, he's what, 31?

It doesn't matter.

I don't know, 30, 31, 32, whatever he is.

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card.

There's one thing I'm going to make sure I pack for my summer vacation.

It's my Apple Card.

I can earn up to 3% daily cash back.

on every purchase, including fuel for my car and booking places to stay.

Plus, I don't have to worry about fees, including foreign transaction fees, which is perfect when I'm planning to travel abroad.

To get an Apple Card for your summer travels, apply in the wallet app on your iPhone today, subject to credit approval.

Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch.

Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24%

to 28.49%

based on credit worthiness, rates as of July 1st, 2025, terms, and more at applecard.com.

This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot.

Labor Day savings are happening right now at the Home Depot, so you can get more out of your outdoor space this fall.

The Home Depot has a wide selection of cordless outdoor power equipment that makes it easy to clear your lawn starting at just $79.

You got to love a power tool.

Then why not make those colors pop?

with string lights and mums that bloom all season long.

Shop Labor Day savings now through September 3rd only at the Home Depot.

Charlotte ends up with the fourth pick, and that's going to be whoever Philly doesn't take between Bailey and Edgecomb, or is that Trey Johnson potential there?

31, by the way.

You said

Charlotte.

Let me pull up my own.

Fourth pick Charlotte.

They should just change their name.

Yeah.

Fourth pick Charlotte.

I had him taking Edgecomb because I thought that he was a nice,

he's a nice balance between if they really are going to lean in and keep.

Keep the Brandon Miller Lamello thing going.

Those two are big wings who can handle and pass and dribble, pull up, shoot.

I think they needed somebody to get downhill.

They really need something to balance out that trio.

And I think Edgecombe is a guy who is less

usage insistent compared to those two guys.

I think he'll be happy to play the role that he'll play.

So I, I, and also, he's, he's a lob threat, too.

I don't think people understand.

I compared him to the way he jumps.

He's incredibly fast off of the floor out of the house.

Have you gotten to even see Edgecombe yet?

Just he is

encouraged me to to do so, but

I did.

I did the work too.

Because I thought we were going to get one, two, or three.

I was saving my edgecomb.

I was like, oh, downside scenario.

I don't want to jinx it.

I don't want to look at the guy who's going to get taken fourth because my team's not going to get, you know, they're not going to be drafting fourth.

But, you know, so no, I haven't looked at him.

There's no chance he can go second, right?

Like, you would just rule that out, cross it off.

It's not happening.

He thinks it's possible.

I mean, he like, do you think Harper has second locked up?

Because I think, I, I think when teams work out Edgecombe and really look at the, it's just the kind of guy you need and the kind of guy you've needed in the NBA for 20 years, you know?

He's a little, he's a shade, they're roughly, they're a push in terms of their age.

I just think that Harper is just so much more advanced than him in terms of like his on-ball creation and stuff like that.

But the counter is, you know, VJ, VJ was a pretty good, if you watch him shoot the ball, he kind of looks like an athlete who has learned to shoot.

It's not as natural, it's, but I'm not down.

He will get there.

I mean, you see, like, OG has developed into a great shooter, but obviously apples and oranges on that.

But, I mean, Vijay,

I still feel like Harper is a solid number two.

The Spurs, though, I mean, who knows?

Yeah, they always seem to kind of have their own board.

And you talk to some of these teams.

I've talked to teams who'd be like, you know, we had so-and-so number two, and you just kind of bowled back by that.

You can get a little drunk and misled by the public thinking that the public discourse is the same as the behind closed doors discourse.

And I think people would be a little shocked by how different it can be sometimes.

Well, and then you have Con Knipple going to Utah at five.

And I just want to say

he's my favorite in this draft

just because I like him because he's a listener.

So shout out to him.

Hey, listen to the show.

Yeah, he listens.

There's a picture of him reading my book when he's like eight years old.

So he's now my favorite player in the draft because I'm selfish.

You didn't tell me that.

Did you know that from the beginning?

I only found it out last week because I kept talking about how much I liked him.

Because remember, I kept saying that I thought he was going to go five spots too late, but now it seems like he's not going to go five spots too late.

You think he's going to go in the top seven?

Yeah, I mean, he's an awesome player, and I think he's going to do both.

He has great size.

They need passing and they need shooting.

And he is going to be a great fit in that sense.

Like, he's going to be super in on him.

Yeah.

I'm super in on him.

He can play basketball.

he's a hoop

he he's a hooper um i love that he's always trying to get to the paint he's not like um dilly dallion out here let me see

no man's going downhill he's trying to get to the paint he's welcoming the contact he's got that big body 6'7 220 that's a baller and you know his his instincts uh in terms of offensive rebounding i don't know what the numbers are i'd let kyle um share i just felt like he was always around the basket when Duke needed, you know, a hand on a ball, a tip, something like that.

Big KK fan.

That leads us to

the Wizards, the number six.

What do you guys think?

I was going to say, Knipple, I wanted to add this on there.

49% on spot up looks this year and 39% on off-screen.

Yeah, he's a dynamic shooter.

How old is he?

What's the age for him?

Knipple's almost 20.

Yeah.

But it can vary a lot.

That makes a picture of him reading my book.

That's amazing.

But let's get Utah to send us.

I'm going to have him on.

I got to have him on, right?

Well,

I want a Knipple jersey.

Get Utah to send us some books.

He's my favorite player.

It's a picture of him as a kid reading my book.

That's all I need.

I don't need

any other data.

Actually, corroborate, Bill texted well before he got that.

I did.

You could just tell.

You know, my certain, the people who are always moving without the ball and are additive.

Those are always the guys I'm going to be drawn to.

So, number six.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right.

House didn't seem to like this, but I was thinking, I think there could be some serious movement.

I think there could be.

I like the hypothetical of what they could add here because Sar is this hyper is hypothetical.

There's that word again.

Take a drink.

Stretch big.

He obviously is not super comfortable around the basket yet, playing with force.

That's been an issue.

Are you waiting for me to call on you?

I'm waiting because I am going to surprise you.

Okay, please.

Okay.

Please complete your thought.

I think they have a chance here.

Now that you've fallen, you can really lean into an identity of just being gigantic.

I think that if you put Malowatch next to SAR, next to Kulabali, that already is a crazy young, huge front court.

But also at six, I could see like Atlanta really needs a guy like Malowatch.

I could see them, I could see somebody reaching up who needs an anchor.

Like they're one example.

I haven't heard a ton of buzz about that, but

that's one just kind of hypothetical idea that I was thinking about for the Wiz.

Lean into being huge.

I fucking love Mila Watch.

Not only do I love him, this is an

honest to God truth.

I tried to make the case for him during the NCAA tournament because of how impactful he was controlling the defensive boards and his shot blocking early in the tournament.

I tried to convince my guys on East Coast Bias to join me on like, I think it was like 175 to one for him to win most outstanding player in the final four.

Because the way that he can control

on defense, the impactfulness, I think it's an incredible fit.

He's exactly on the timeline that these young guys are on.

They're all basically the same age, between 18 and a half and 20 and a half at best.

And he, what they are missing is indeed a defensive presence, a low post, shot blocker, rim protector.

Because Sar wants to be out on the perimeter, and that's fine.

His feet are good.

He can go out and defend threes and fours a little bit.

And Kulabali, you know, if he, if he just needs, he needs a little more ass on him.

I might have to take him out eating here in DC.

I got some spots for him.

Need some calories for the man.

But isn't the whole point of Sar is like he's basically can be Serge Abaka, right?

So you can you can play those two together.

Absolutely, you can.

Yes.

Yeah, it's just, I don't think he gets past six i'd be surprised and i i have done admittedly not nearly enough work on this draft yet but it felt it felt like the five guys

and then i would throw in i think tray johnson's gonna go i i think you probably have kinipple

two spots too high i think i'd be surprised if he goes top five because i think tray johnson will be the other one that rises up And I think teams will, and I say this, having the most Knipple stock, as we get closer to the the draft, he's the type of guy teams start talking themselves out of because they go to the combines and they're like, oh, man, this guy jumped 43 inches.

Oh, now I have him fifth.

Start looking at those spreadsheets and talking to yourself.

There's going to be two guys that climb, right?

And so Knipple will probably be in that seven to nine range, would be my guess, which,

by the way, some

decent teams in there, including New Orleans, poor Brooklyn, by the way, not poor Brooklyn, because it was all self-inflicted, but

they were trying to tank more than anybody.

Their coach was Dennis Schroeder.

They had these guys winning games early.

They had they had to get rid of guys, dump guys,

and then ended up kind of in the vicinity of everybody else.

And now they're eight.

So not awesome.

And then the other one was Houston, I guess, that had it, you know, had, was having dreams of maybe climbing up in the top four, but was not able to do that.

All right, House.

So it seems like we figured out who you want to draft.

I love it.

I love it.

I made it two

Yes.

Out of all the possibilities that that would help soothe some of these wounds.

He did suggest that we draw a butthole for the guide, though.

I just think people should know that.

I don't know, House.

Well, no, no, it wasn't

with respect to any particular player that may be there.

My suggestion was there was an artistic rendering for sort of each player.

And my recommendation to Kyle was for six for Washington for them falling there, just take, do a pencil etching of my butthole.

Just put that in there.

You You don't need the face of anything.

I don't want the reference image for that.

So, you know, I don't know.

No, I know White Lotus gets it.

Frank angry.

Bill, is this a normal thing?

Is angry how he gets increased?

The graph of

Joe being angry and his funniness, the lines just kind of go side by side.

The angry string gets the funnier.

Yeah, if you're doing the house formula, there's probably some cocktails.

Were there cocktails from that house?

Yeah, man, it's my birthday.

It's for another

45 minutes.

My birthday was today.

I should probably have known that since we've been friends since 1988.

We're old, man.

We were good.

It's middle-aged.

We don't be counting.

I said, we made it to another birthday, House.

I know.

It's another excuse to go grab a couple of drinks.

I'll tell you that much.

And I did have a couple.

And then

I doubled when I saw that we fell to six.

But we're in good shape.

For a birthday present, Adam Silver delivered the number six pick to house.

Did a pencil etching of my butthole.

All right, we're going to pack it in.

Thanks for joining me.

Don't forget, I'm going to be on Zach Lowe's podcast tomorrow.

He's He's going to talk about behind the scenes.

He said it was pretty crazy as people were realizing what was happening with the balls.

So I'll be on there tomorrow.

Thanks to Gahal.

Thanks to Eduardo as well.

I really hope by some sort of miracle, Jason Tatum, it wasn't as bad as it seemed, but I guess we will find out tomorrow morning.

Thanks to everybody who stayed on the YouTube stream as well.

See you next time.

Must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president DC.

Gambling problem, call 100 gambler or visit rg-help.com.

Call 1-88-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

Hope is here.

Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text Hope NY in New York.