Dan Osborn: Connecting with Working People

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Hey, everybody, it's Tim.

Just a couple of scheduling notes notes, and then i want to uh deliver a little rant about the state of play for the democrats in some of these states across the country and why i thought it was so important to have uh dan osborne on the pod today so you'll be getting dan who's this independent candidate running in nebraska somebody i've been wanting to talk to for a while uh ran a really close race and not i guess not that close he lost by six and a half points to uh deb fisher but in the same state where donald trump won by 1920 points and so you know whether there are lessons to learn there is something that we can talk about.

A bunch of other stuff in the news.

If you head over to the Borg Takesfeed, I grabbed my boy Pablo Torre, and we talked about Trump's sport council, which I have some issues with.

On with Sam Stein, we talked about Donald Trump's renovation, $200 million renovation.

He needs a new fancy ballroom.

Here's the thing.

I can go this a little bit with Dan.

It's like...

The vanguard of the working man, you know, the man that is going to go out there and fight for the forgotten man all across the country.

It seems like his top priority at this moment is basically interior design for the White House.

It was ensuring he got a big tax break for his rich friends.

It's protecting people that were at some level involved in a child sex trafficking ring who are likely very elite and very wealthy.

I'm not really seeing the passion for helping the working man out from Donald Trump.

Translating that

to working class voters, though, is a real challenge.

And I talked about that with Dan a little bit today.

And I think that Dan's model is an interesting one.

He is clearly kind of left progressive on a lot of economic issues, which is maybe the right path forward.

He really wants to focus and talk about those issues.

I'll be interested to see how that turns out this time in Nebraska.

I think that there is another path that a lot of progressives bristle at, which is finding people who have more cultural affinity with the Trump voters and maybe they can deliver a message about Trump's hypocrisy on working class issues, about how Trump is a fucking charlatan and a phony more effectively than

people that code more as social left or in league with whatever the kind of elite, you know, the culture or the dominant elite culture.

I think that that's possible too.

But the thing that is most important about all this that I just really want to get across is like this is an urgent crisis, and it really matters

that Democrats are so unable to compete across big Swas America.

And it's a crisis in part because of the Senate and how unfair the Senate is and how

undemocratic the Senate is.

And if we had a magic genie and a magic wand, maybe the answer would be to fix the Senate or add three more states or whatever, you know, to bring some balance.

Because, you know, as a country, we're pretty close to 50-50.

But

because of the nature of the Senate, because of the nature of the Electoral College, the Republicans are going to have a big advantage that will persist if they continue to do better and better with working class and rural Americans.

We can lament that and say it sucks and say you can reform it.

Okay, fine.

But in the meantime, you got to compete in the rules of the game.

And I just don't think the Democrats are competing in the rules of the game.

And the fact that Dan Osborne feels like he has to run as an independent is one data point in that.

We talk about that a little bit.

But a bigger data point for me is that, you know, here we are, July 31st, coming up over what could very well be a good wave midterm for the Democrats, a chance to maybe pick up seats in unexpected places.

And where is the urgent campaign to recruit people that might have an actual chance in places like Ohio or Florida?

Where is the effort to find some folks that can actually speak to Trump voters authentically and effectively in those states?

Like, here's the thing.

Those people will have opinions that I don't like.

I'm like a cultural lib, right?

I hate Donald Trump.

I resent a lot of Donald Trump voters.

That's why I'm not running for Senate in Louisiana.

Okay.

I also don't want to run for office, but like, I would not be a good Senate candidate for Louisiana.

If there was somebody like me, you know, if a clone of me decided that they wanted to run in one of these other states, I'll come on this podcast and say, that is very fucking stupid.

A Tim Miller-type candidate should not run for Senate in Utah or Ohio or Florida.

Like somebody that runs for Senate in Utah or Ohio or Florida, like needs to be able to appeal at some level to people that voted for Donald Trump.

He's going to share some of their cultural resentments, I think.

They've got to be mad at some level at the Democratic establishment.

And the Democratic Party has a 30% approval rating.

30% approval rating.

Imagine what the Democratic Party's approval rating is in Ohio or Texas.

You're going to run a candidate in one of those states that thinks that the Democratic Party is great, that everything that they're doing is great?

What's the point?

Why even try?

Why even try?

You know, it'd be like somebody going into the NFL in the year 2025 and being like,

we're going to run the T-bone.

Like, we're going to go back and do smash mouth.

you know, up the middle, off-tackle right, off-tackle left, run the last miles offense.

Like, it doesn't, like, it doesn't make any sense.

The rules of the game, we know what they are.

And if the Democrats ever have a prayer to do anything to advance any progressive agenda items, to do anything to roll back the authoritarian overreach, to do anything to check Trump, to win the Senate, they've got to win in these states.

And I just, you hear some people talking about this.

I had Matt Aglacy Sona talk about this a couple weeks ago.

When I'm in these Democratic circles, I just, I hear a lot of talk about urgent crises and things that they're worried about related to Donald Trump and his threats to democracy, but I don't hear a lot about this.

And so I'm just doing, trying to do what I can to try to elevate this and maybe draw attention to it in a way that will spur some action from people.

Because

running a generic Democrat candidate in these places is a loser.

Again, you can't see the future.

Maybe there's somebody who's particularly aspiring and great.

There's a lot of people who are particularly aspiring and great that I love.

I just heard that Betto's going to be here coming up on August 7th in New Orleans.

So I'm going to go hang out with him.

And if you're in New Orleans or the area, come check him out.

He's going going to be at Howland Wolf.

Betto is a pretty traditional Democrat ideologically.

There's James Terrelikos seems like a pretty traditional Democrat.

Colin seems like a pretty traditional Democrat.

All of them are pretty compelling and they have compelling stories in their own way.

Maybe that could work in Texas.

Maybe if the economy goes terrible, that could work.

I'm not saying that it can't, but could we try somebody else in one of these other states?

Could we try somebody that has an answer to the question, what are you upset with about the Democratic leadership?

And they have an answer?

Because 63% of the country is mad at the Democratic Party.

So we should probably find somebody to run in red states that can authentically talk about what makes them upset when it comes to the Democrats.

And maybe that can authentically talk about something that would give them an area where they could bond with a Trump voter over a shared issue or a shared grievance or a shared resentment.

It's not ideal.

It's not great.

I don't think I share very many resentments with Donald Trump voters in Shreveport, but I also am not wanting to win voters in Shreveport.

I think that the Democrats should try to find somebody who can do that in these states or someone who is an independent-minded person should offer themselves to do it.

Because if not,

you know, the best case scenario you have here is winning the House barely, 50-50 Senate,

running down the, who knows what happens to Donald Trump in 2028.

I mean, it's a dangerous game everybody's playing.

So Dan Osborne's at least trying something different.

I appreciate that.

I was happy to have him on the podcast.

We'll be interested to hear what you guys think about what he has to say.

He's up next.

I'm out in California for a

brief little family vacay, but we'll still be doing the podcast from California Monday and Tuesday, and then I'll be back home on Wednesday.

So, I hope you guys are enjoying your

little summer weekend.

Get out to the beach or the pool or have a barbecue or just read a book, rest, and we'll see you back here on Monday.

Enjoy Dan Osborne.

Hello, and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast.

I'm your host, Tim Miller.

Excited to welcome an independent candidate for Senate in Nebraska.

He's a steam fitter and former president of the Bakery Workers Union in Omaha.

He's also a Navy vet and was a member of the Nebraska Army National Guard.

He announced earlier this month that he's running against billionaire Nepal adults, Pete Ricketts for the United States Senate.

It's Dan Osborne.

What's up, man?

Hey, not not much.

Just got off work.

I'm happy to be here with you guys.

I love this garage that you're in.

I was like, we got over on FY Pod, we had Jax Flossberg in his van, which is kind of a very, you know, millennial hipster vibe.

But like, you, you look like this garage gets a little bit of work.

I don't know.

You got an eagle?

It sure does.

Yeah, this is a firebird there.

88.

What are you doing on the firebird?

Oh, well, I can show you here.

We're

putting in a V8

over there.

We're rebuilding that engine, my son and I, and then we're going to drop a 350 V8 in it.

I wish I could ask follow-up questions on that, but

I can't even really change the oil in my car.

So, you know,

it takes a village.

You know, everybody needs to have different skills here.

YouTube is like, you know, the father nobody ever had.

You just watch YouTube videos.

You can do anything.

That is true.

That is true.

Well, my actual father was disappointed in my lack of ability to work on cars, but, you know, we've reached an equilibrium in adulthood.

I want to ask about you, man.

I got to tell you, I know more about you as like this caricature of a person that exists online as, you know, and whatever, an independent populist than I actually do.

like about your real life.

So I'm curious, and I gave a little bit of your bio there, if you give us a little penny tour of like how

your life ended up in this place where you're where you're running for senate.

Yeah, sure.

Well, you you know, I haven't always been a political person.

I've spent, you know, 20 years.

You mentioned

BCTGM.

We landed under the grain millers, not bakery.

So well, just as a quick aside, we should do this.

It's the bakery, confectionery, tobacco workers, and grain millers international union.

How did like Willie Wonka and Philip Morris workers like sort of join forces there?

What's the through line?

Yeah, it's been ongoing throughout history.

There's been a lot of mergers that they figured that they would benefit from each other's company over the years.

So that's how it ended up to be that way.

I'd like to see that hangout between the tobacco workers and the confectionery.

Yeah, I think...

I don't know.

I only do one of those, and that's the confectionery part.

So I've hung up the tobacco years and years ago.

Okay.

What kind of tobacco were you doing before you hung it up years and years ago?

Oh, I was a baseball player, so

I liked the chewing tobacco.

Yep.

The Zins are in right now.

What do you know about Zins?

You know what I mean?

Yeah, I see people doing them.

I don't get it.

What about regulation?

You want to run for Senate?

Where are you on government regulation of Zen?

Oh, stuff like that.

I'm not concerned.

I think that's government overreach personally.

I think

that falls into communities and parents raising their kids and schools.

I think education is the key when it comes to that, actually.

Anyway, we got distracted.

We went down the bakery confectionery route.

So anyway, you're working with the union.

Let's go back to your story.

Yeah, yeah.

I worked there for 20 years.

I worked my way up in the union ranks.

I was an industrial mechanic there.

And then I ran for president.

Similarly, why I'm running for the United States Senate.

I saw a need.

for leadership in our union.

You know, we were starting to lose on some contracts while the company was remaining profitable.

So I wanted to put my name in the ring.

I got elected and I was president for about two years before the strike happened.

And, you know, the strike is really what got me into politics and thinking about and seeing and realizing my world around me in a different way than I previously didn't know.

And so I suppose we got to back up a little bit during COVID is really was the precursor to all of that.

We were working seven days a week, 12 hours a day during that time as essential workers.

In fact, about 50% of our workforce was forced quarantine and or sick at four American manufacturing plants around the country under the umbrella of the master.

We were all working those hours.

So 12 hours a day that entire year.

We made them a ton of money.

They went from $19 billion to $21 billion in this profit.

The CEO gave himself a $2 million raise.

The board enriched themselves and the stockholders enriched themselves.

And we got a coffee cup that said essential workers on it.

That's a nice, very nice cup.

But, you know, our contract expired that year.

And as president, I figured it was going to be a no-brainer, right?

We'd get a little sliver of the pie.

Instead, they sat across the negotiating table from us and they said, we're going to take your health insurance.

We're going to take your cost of living wage adjustment, which is our only form of wage increases designed to keep us even with inflation.

We know how that's going.

And then we're going to implement a two-tier wage system with no path for a lower-tier employee to move up into the upper tier.

It's a way to divide your workforce.

Very union-bust in tactics.

That was kind of an oh shit moment for me.

There hadn't been a strike in Nebraska since 1972, and I'd never thought about it before that.

So I learned how to pick it, why we pick it, had to learn everything about it, and contacting police and fire ahead of, you know, the strike.

And so when midnight, October 5th rolled around, 2021,

we

shut down four North American plants and we walked off the job to preserve our wages and benefits.

Certainly one of the hardest things I've ever had to do is take 500 of my friends and their families, 1,500 nationwide, and shut these plants down, walk off the job, not knowing if we're going to have a job at the end of it.

But we all felt we were on the right side of history.

And,

you know, that was my first introduction into politics because I knew politics were going to play a part.

And I figured Democrats were going to show up to the picket line in support of us, and they did.

But I was able to get our governor and a Republican congressman out to the picket line to show support.

to put added pressure on Kellogg's.

And, you know, we ended up being on strike for 77 days and we settled just before Christmas.

And I remember walking back in my plant after that, feeling an enormous sense of pride, what we were all able to accomplish when we stood together out on that picket line.

Because there's no Democrats or Republicans or black or white or men or women.

It's just people wanting to work.

And

it gave me a newfound appreciation.

for unions and people standing together for a cause.

Was Pete Ricketts one of the Republicans that was out there?

He was the governor at the time.

He drafted a letter.

That's interesting.

Yep, I went out to the Capitol.

I met with his team, and I didn't meet with him, but I met with his team, and he ended up drafting a letter and sending it to the CEO, Steve K.

Hillane, imploring him to get our people back to work.

So thank you for doing that, Pete Ricketts.

The strike story is interesting to me, hearing you tell that origin, because

there's like a conventional wisdom of people looking back on COVID now.

And the reflection is that like we did too much to try to stem the tide of COVID, right?

That there were too many restrictions, et cetera, and that it was like a burden on

people with desk jobs that

had too many restrictions on their lives and the government intervened too much.

And like your story is that there's this burden on people that were doing real work on the front lines who were getting sick, who are having to work extra hours.

You don't hear that story a lot when you think back on COVID.

How do you, looking back on on it, feel like political leaders did kind of managing that pandemic?

Yeah,

when we were going through it, I remember walking through Walmart and looking down and seeing the arrows that I have to walk a specific way in an aisle.

And, you know, they had everybody to try to separate everybody.

And then masks turned into Republican versus Democrat.

If you were wearing a mask, you were a Democrat.

And if you weren't wearing a you were, you know, a proud Republican.

And I was like, this is absolutely ridiculous because my dad got sick and it almost killed him.

Yeah.

But

he squeaked through it and he beat it.

But, you know, the fact of the matter is,

there were people dying and there were people getting very, very sick.

Were there some overreactions?

Yeah, there were.

But the way I see it is people were just trying to do the right thing during that time.

You know, as far as CDC CDC and stuff like that goes, I don't think it was this vast conspiracy to see how much they can try to control people.

I think ultimately their goal was to keep people safe.

And so they reacted.

And, you know, we all lived through it.

Well, I guess not all of us, but

you and I did.

And to be able to talk about it.

And

it was a hell of an experience.

And it certainly changed a lot of people's lives.

I'm interested in your political evolution and kind of the intro ad to running.

You talk about how your dad

was a Republican County commissioner, but you, you know, like you said, you weren't really very political through much of your life.

You know, you lived through the Bush years and Iraq and all that and Obama.

I'm just kind of wondering how, you know, where your political antenna has been over the last couple of decades.

Yeah, the very first thing I remember about politics was my dad got me a George Bush senior mask for Halloween.

And I went trick-or-treating as George Bush, and doors were getting slammed in my face, and I had no idea why.

I was just trying to get some candy.

And I had to ask my dad, you know, why were people mad at my Halloween costume?

And

I really don't remember his answer.

I'm sure I just needed to get to my candy.

You know, so I suppose we've always had a level of division in this country when it comes to our political views.

But I think, you know, I've been a registered independent from the time I could vote.

I never really bought into the two-party system because the way I see it is, you know, I don't see a lot of them actively working for

the people.

I see a lot of fighting.

I see a lot of money exchanging hands between

very wealthy donors, multinational corporations, and special interests that, you know, it's hard to argue that they're not really the ones pulling the strings of these politicians.

So we don't take corporate money.

If I can't relate it back to working people, I don't take the money.

So your dad was, was what?

Like what kind of family was it growing up?

Your dad was a George Bush fan, but was he?

Yeah, my dad was, he was pretty strict military style.

Okay.

My grandfather is retired Navy.

My dad was Navy.

My uncle was Navy.

I ended up being Navy.

My brother joined the Marine Corps, so we don't talk to him anymore.

I don't even know where he's at.

I'm just kidding.

We do.

But no, so it was very strict.

You know, you get the belt when you mess up.

You know, I never crossed my dad, but he was the same guy that would give his shirt off his own back.

You know, for his kids, he worked hard for us and tried to instill discipline and values in us.

And it's stuck with me today.

I don't raise my kids the exact same way, but, you know, I still try to install values.

You know,

you do something wrong, there's repercussions for it, right?

For every action, there's a negative or positive reaction, and kids need to understand that at a pretty early age.

So, I feel like he was a positive role model in my life, and him and my mom are still together, which is pretty rare these days.

You know, and I'm still together with my wife after 24 years, so I think a lot of that rubbed off on me.

What does he think about those tats?

Oh, he makes fun of me, he makes fun of me for it, But that's okay.

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I hear you've been an independent your whole life, but looking at the politics that we're at today, like what is it about the Democratic Party that's unappealing to you?

Like, where do you see yourself as separate from like a generic Democratic candidate?

I don't hang my hat on social issues.

To me,

being able to help the most amount of people is uplifting them economically.

So you don't have to worry about whether where your next meal is going to come from or where you're going to be able to pay your rent or if you're going to have to put Christmas on a credit card this year.

So that actually would free you up to worry about the social issues aspect of people's lives.

And you know, you don't hear a lot of Democrats going around talking about supporting

the small family farms and ranches

in Main Street, Nebraska or Main Street, USA, and uplifting mom and pop shops, making it an even playing field for them to stay open.

Now they're having to compete with Dollar Generals and there's a Dollar General at the end or beginning of every Main Street in Nebraska.

I started taking pictures of them.

At first it was a joke and then I realized what was going on.

I was like, oh man,

this is crazy.

They're horrible employers.

They got crap food for people to eat.

And mom and pop shops are boarded up because of it.

So these are the problems that, you know, when I'm going out, I did 200 events in 24.

Hopefully I can do 250 this time.

These are the things we talk about.

I like talking about right to repair.

If you own something, you should be able to repair it.

This is John Deere, but this is spilled over into our lives, too, with cell phones and vehicles.

They're wanting to microchip car parts.

So you have to get it from the OEM.

You know, like it's just getting ridiculous.

And those are the things that I like to talk about.

So I think that's the fundamental difference.

I should have mentioned at the start,

you ran against Deb Fisher last time as an independent in Nebraska, lost that race by about, what, six and a half points, basically.

And the vice president lost to Trump by 20.

So a huge gap of people that were voting for you and for Trump.

And so I wonder, you know, when you're out there doing those 240 events, you're talking to an average Trump voter.

We're going to do a little stereotyping here.

I know you're not supposed to do that, but I want you to imagine a stereotypical Trump voter in your head somewhere in rural Nebraska.

And I want you to imagine kind of a stereotypical hipster in Omaha that was voting for Kamala Harris.

On what issues are you connecting with them more than the Democratic voter?

My paycheck.

I think it's pretty simple.

I connect with working folks because I get a paycheck every week.

You punch a clock, you get a paycheck.

You know how much money comes in.

You know how much money goes out.

And life is getting harder.

I'm feeling the squeeze in my own personal life, my own personal finances.

My kids are worried about being a homeowner.

I mean, I think the average age for your first-time homeowner is like 38 years old.

That's disgusting.

You know, these kids are worried that they're not going to get a fair shake in life.

I'm worried for them too.

So when it comes to talking with people and relating with people, I can take most issues and relate it back to somebody's paycheck, whether that's health care or child care.

There's so many things that affect our pocketbook.

And we live in a very abundant nation.

And I think there's enough here for everybody to be able to live comfortably.

What about the substance?

I mean, like a lot of Democrats, I think, could have said that.

They agree on economic issues.

Like on the substance of the social issues, whether it be, I don't know, transports or...

the border or guns.

Are there any of those issues that you feel like, you know, you're more in step with what Republicans and the state are advocating for than the other side yeah I think without a border we don't have a country I do like what I see with the the border crossings becoming rare but at the flip side of that you know we're seeing factories get raided meat cutters get raided.

We're seeing people not showing up to work at restaurants.

We are seeing business owners get hurt by this immigration policy.

So the economic conservative side of me is extremely worried about that.

And I think that's what immigration is doing.

So, but we haven't had really any kind of meaningful immigration reform since I've been alive.

I remember watching George Bush and Ronald Reagan have a debate about the exact same thing that we talk about today.

Nothing's really changing.

It's like in black and white, practically, that debate.

The quality of the TV or video is so bad.

So, you got to ask yourself why, right?

Why is that?

And, you know, if this has been a problem forever, why is it?

Well,

I think it's the corporations.

I mean,

we have a monopoly in this state of meat packers.

They've split the state up into quadrants, and those are the ones that benefit from exploiting labor, paying them next to nothing, enriching themselves, and they're the ones who can afford to bankroll campaigns.

And politicians look the other way because they know

they want to get re-elected.

If you want to continue working in D.C., you got to play their game.

And that's what I represent.

And this is Democrats and Republicans doing this.

And I don't want any part of that.

I want to go back to the way the framers of this Constitution intended this country to be government by and for the people.

They warned us of the two factions and where it can lead.

And here we are.

So I want to give the government back to the people.

Yeah, it's kind of interesting listening to you talking I was reading some of your stuff.

Like it feels like your view of all this, like your critique is a lot of

just the dysfunction in the process of the two-party system as much as it is an ideological one, right?

And some people say they're an independent because they're like, well, I'm, I don't know, I'm conservative on social issues and liberal on economic issues or the other way around, right?

And so I'm an independent because I don't fit in either camp.

But like your critique of both camps feels a lot more like it's about just kind of the insider games, the corruption, the fact that these parties aren't actually looking out for anybody in that process as much as it is a critique of the merits of the ideology.

Is that fair?

Does that sound right to you or no?

Yeah, yeah,

it has become a bit of tribalism, right?

Like my team and

as an outsider and just as a regular citizen looking in, it appears to me that

either side didn't want either side to have a win.

And they will fight tooth and nail.

And every single thing in our lives has to become political and you have to take a side one way or another.

I know I mentioned the masks in COVID became so political.

Everything just becomes so political and you have to choose these sides.

And then we fight.

I mean, truly, that breaks my heart to see that in the country and to see families getting divided.

I know people that are so anti-Trump that they won't talk to any members of the family that are pro-Trump or vice versa.

And

I just hate seeing that.

And what I did in 24, you could drive, and you mentioned I got a good percentage of the Trump vote in nebraska you could drive down and you would see an osborne sign next to a trump sign and in the same small town maybe on the other side you'd see one next to a harris sign so i felt like i was bringing people together and that made me feel great and that's why you know we want to continue with that momentum and and continue making a difference

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You sent a provocative tweet a couple days ago, a couple weeks ago maybe, that said, I agree with Tucker here.

And it's funny because I had taken the same exact video and played it on this podcast.

And I said, I think the Democrats should listen to Tucker here.

And I'm not going to play the whole three minutes for people.

I'll put a link in the show notes.

People want to go watch it.

And frankly, I think people should watch the entire Tucker Carlson speech at Turning Point USA.

There's a handful of gross stuff in there and some stupid talking points.

But on a number of issues, he is speaking colloquially about the problems.

Ooh, say that again.

He's speaking like a normal guy about the problems that people are facing in the country.

Here I am fucking complimenting him for speaking like a normal guy, using the word colloquially.

Anyway, he's speaking like a normal guy about the problem.

And the clip you shared was about housing costs.

Talk about just that issue and whether you think there are things that can be learned, if you will, from the populist right, even if they have some other views that are pretty gross.

A good idea is a good idea.

It really shouldn't matter where it comes from.

Josh Hawley's got a good idea, a bill on the floor that they shouldn't be able to trade stocks.

I mean, that's a no-brainer.

And Elizabeth Warren is a champion for right to repair.

Like I said, a good idea is a good idea.

And, you know, talking about the housing market, I mentioned it earlier with the age is 38 now for first-time home buyers and venture capitalists buying up

single-family homes, apartment buildings, nursing homes, and turning them for a profit.

I got a problem with that.

And so I would pair up with anybody who wants to be a champion for these ideas.

Again, that's going to make it easier for everyday Americans slaving away at their jobs to make their life a little bit better.

Home ownership is, I mean, that's the first stages, right, of being independently wealthy.

I want to move to the Trump administration.

You mentioned the immigration stuff, which is probably what pisses me off the most about the Trump administration that I've seen so far, just the raids, the masks, agents grabbing people off the street, taking people that have not breaken any laws, even immigration laws.

They've been taking people that actually came in the right way, but they've had their status taken away from them and sending them into cells.

That's what makes, that's what's made me the most mad.

What's made you the most mad about the Trump administration the first seven months?

Yeah,

you know, I would, I would have to point to that as well.

You know, I mentioned that it's hurting businesses, but uh, it's also

not humanly decent what we're seeing, you know, unmarked, masked people

pulling people off the street that aren't criminals and not giving them due process.

Due process is

American as baseball and apple pie.

That's one of the fundamental rights of

standing on this land.

And to take that away from people

that are here to make a better life for themselves, is immigration broken?

Yeah, we talked about that earlier.

It is totally broken.

And this is a Congress issue that they need to fix it.

What we're seeing now is it's really hard to watch.

And

I get that people have to be deported.

Every administration has done that, right?

We have taken people that are here unlawfully, and we've removed them.

Joe Biden failed on the border, and now we have this problem.

But what I really hate to see is the celebration of it.

It's turning alligator alcatraz into t-shirts and merchandise that you sell, and people celebrate it.

And people,

you you know, bringing chainsaws on stage, celebrating that hundreds of thousands of people just lost their jobs.

And, you know,

this is what I have a hard time watching with.

You know, so you're talking about when you're going around Nebraska and you're talking to Trump voters and the thing that resonates with them that you can connect on is your paycheck and on these economic issues.

The thing that I don't, that I struggle with is

I get why working class people might feel like the Democratic Party is not in touch touch with their concerns.

I understand why they feel that way.

It's harder for me to understand why they think Donald Trump is in touch with their concerns.

And if you just look at what they've done with the bill, the tax bill in Congress, the fact that he's enriching himself with crypto, the fact he's got billionaires all around him.

To me, he seems like totally phony on that regard.

You're talking to Trump voters more than I am these days.

Like, why do you think that that isn't breaking through?

Do you think that there's any possibility that

his hold on them might change?

That's a great question.

I mean, I guess I don't know.

I think, you know, I have talked to people

that

have had a change of heart, I suppose, or feel like they've been sold a bill of goods and they are no longer in support of the administration or maybe they're just outwardly critical of it, which we should all be able to be critical of any administration.

That's our right as American.

I mean, you say one thing on social media, oh my gosh, keyboard cowboys come out of the woodwork to

try to ruin your day.

But yeah, I speak to people all the time, but I also speak to people that say, hey, he's still,

he's the art of the deal, right?

You know, he knows what he's doing.

He's made his fortune, and they still like the fact that he's not a standard politician.

He just says what he thinks.

People tend to like that.

People tend to like the alpha male-esque aura of

Donald Trump.

Do you think he's an alpha male?

Do you see Donald Trump as an alpha male?

People think that he is an alpha male.

I don't know.

What I think an alpha male is, is somebody who takes care of their family and puts their family first and puts other people before them.

I think that's what a true alpha male is.

But, you know,

I go through Nebraska and there's still a lot of Trump signs up in barns.

And, you know, because a lot of people still agree.

Maybe they don't necessarily like mass men showing up and pulling people off the street or showing up at immigration appointments and taking people and separating children from their families.

But they

still are

anti-illegal immigration.

And so they still like what they're seeing.

I don't know.

You know,

I have neighbors around here that are Trump supporters, and

they feel like economically his tariffs are going to get America ahead, and economically.

What do you think about the tariffs?

Well, I think targeted tariffs have

uplifted American workers.

I mean, you know, Ford and Chevy and Dodge still have the market cornered on full-size trucks.

And, you know, you could argue that tariffs were a part of keeping them that way because the other

Japanese automakers haven't really been able to compete in that market.

So there are times where targeted tariffs, but blanket tariffs and tariffs

on our closest trading partners, Canada and Mexico, and now Brazil.

I like my coffee and don't mess with my coffee.

Yeah.

I had Mark Cuban on a couple couple weeks ago, and he was saying that he doesn't think the tariffs will really make that big of a difference for the big corporations, with maybe a couple specific industry exceptions, but that the problems are going to be on the main street that you were talking about before, and that it's kind of this weird inverse where people think tariffs is this populist thing that helps workers, but actually it's going to create more problems in places like Nebraska.

What did you think of that?

Well, they're going to hurt our farmers.

You know,

they did that in 2016, right, with the tariffs with the soybeans.

We didn't have anybody to sell our soybeans to, so we had to bail out the farmers.

So we know, you know, in that regard, they don't work.

And I think we're heading to have to bail out our farmers again.

And now USAID being shut down is going to hurt our farmers that are selling those crops overseas.

If you don't have anybody to sell it to, that's certainly problematic.

I work.

at a place called Grunwald Mechanical, and all of our water heaters and hydraulic valves and everything have gone up anywhere from 15 to 25 percent due to tariffs.

So I know firsthand that it gets passed down to the consumer because the small businesses can't take that level of hit and still remain profitable and still keep their doors open.

So you pass it down to the consumer.

You pass it down to your customer.

And so we're paying more for stuff, plain and simple.

So it's hard for anybody to tell me tariffs aren't a tax on the the people here in this country, which I absolutely believe they are because I see it.

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Just real quick, I mean, these are obviously complex issues, but I'm just trying to get a general sense from your point of view because I haven't heard a ton from you on foreign policy stuff.

Obviously, that's part of the purview of the Senate.

The Israel-Gaza war and Russia-Ukraine war, like what are your kind of thoughts on where we are now and what the U.S.

should be doing in those situations?

The United States, you know, I think there's two sides that I see see that are like the prevailing arguments, and that's America first,

don't help out anybody, keep everything here.

But, you know, what I see

is innocent people getting killed in Ukraine and in Gaza.

We saw innocent people in Israel get killed.

That October 7th attack was heinous.

It was very difficult to watch.

I believe Israel

has a right for their existence to be their own state and they had the right to defend themselves.

But what we're seeing now, what I see now is starving children, people getting shot to try to get food.

That's an atrocity.

That is not the way I see humanity should be operating with each other.

We all occupy this planet and we have to figure out ways to coexist with each other.

And the United States is uniquely positioned in the world as a superpower to be able to intervene in these, whether that's through sanctions or, you know, with Israel

holding back

offensive munitions, things like that.

So, you know, I would definitely take into consideration any ideas that's going to bring about peace and change in those regions.

You know, I see it.

There was a tornado that came through here last April, and the entire community got together.

People's houses were destroyed.

People went to Walmart or Lowe's or Home Depot and bought wood and helped people.

We were just helping people rebuild their houses.

And, you know,

that's what the world is like.

But then you see that.

It's like, man, human beings, it's such a dichotomy, right?

Why do we hate each other and love each other so much at the same time?

If we could figure out a way to drop 30,000 pound bombs that have food in it, that would be amazing too, right?

This is, I don't know, it's, it's, human beings are a dichotomy, but with Russia and Ukraine, I think, I think supporting Ukraine is America first.

You know, you see innocent people getting killed.

You see a sovereign nation getting invaded by an aggressor.

That's who we are.

That's who we've always been.

We've always, you know, in World War II, we've always stuck up for the little guy and helped prevent tyranny in the world.

To expand on kind of what you were saying there about Israel, I'm just curious, I see that this Bernie Sanders bill, you know, like, how do you balance what the U.S.'s role and responsibility is with regards to our ally Israel and maybe what kind of limits we should start to put on how we're helping them out?

Yeah, I think that we should definitely be taking that into consideration.

You know, they do have a right to defend themselves, the Iron Dome.

Look, I appreciate where they're geographically located in the world.

And, you know, the people around them would love to see their annihilation.

So, and they are an ally, and I do believe that we should should stick up for our allies, but I don't think we should be supplying munitions of war that are offensive in nature.

That's going to be killing women and children.

That's

pretty simple for me.

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All right, we're running out of time.

So rapid fire on a couple of them.

Here, you're running against Pete Ricketts.

I kind of forget that Pete Ricketts is in the Senate sometimes, so it's hard for me to make a case against him.

What's your elevator pitch about why Nebraska should get rid of Pete Pete Ricketts?

Well, you know, I think you look back, he was a two-term governor.

He ruled this state like a mob boss with his money.

You know, as a governor,

it's your job to try to lobby, you know, your lawmakers to try to get stuff through that you need to get through what you see best for Nebraskans.

He didn't lobby people.

What he would do is he would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in negative ad campaigns.

He just got sued and lost $500,000 for a woman here in Nebraska.

She ended up losing her husband, husband, her business with his negative attack ads and his money.

So he's left awake of very irritated conservatives and Democrats, you know, with his money.

There was a Flatwater Free Press article that came out that said the Ricketts had spent $90 million influencing Nebraska politics.

So I think he embodies everything that's wrong with politics.

You know, I, you know, when it was Fisher, it was she would take money from corporate donors.

Well, this guy is the corporate donor ultimately.

So I don't know him personally.

I have nothing against anybody personally in politics, but the way I see it is

go

live your life out on a beach, man.

You got to have all that money.

You have $380 million.

Go enjoy it.

Why do what you're doing?

I don't understand that.

Help somebody.

Yeah, my particular would be, he's certainly not an independent.

You know, you're an independent say you want about him, but like, There's been no, not even a single moment where he said there's something that Donald Trump did wrong.

And I like there's, you know, I guess maybe some people think that Donald Trump can do no wrong, but you would think that there'd at least be one issue where a U.S.

senator might think, hey, the issue of Nebraska is more important than being doing the party line here.

He never does that.

Yeah, the one that's in the forefront of the news now, too, and Pete Ricketts is on the record.

He's, you know, starting

January is sex trafficking or human trafficking month.

And, you know, we want to highlight this issue.

It's so wrong.

It's the worst thing.

It's the lowest humanity can get, which I agree with.

And then asked about releasing the Epstein files.

And he said, ah, that's not on our radar.

We have all this other stuff we have to do.

So

it's whenever it suits him.

Yeah.

Yeah, we got to do sex trafficking of kids awareness month, but we're not going to expose any of the people involved in the biggest sex trafficking ring.

So we don't want to throw them in jail.

We don't want to get any of the guys involved in the biggest sex trafficking ring of elites that may have at some level encountered the president of the United States.

We're not going to talk about that one.

We're going to do some other ones.

All right, just really quick, two fun rapid-fire ones.

You're an independent, so like we're trying to figure out who you think's done a good job so the presidents you're not you can't go back to lincoln we're starting at reagan reagan bush clinton bush obama biden trump i need your best and worst best and worst reagan to trump you killed you killed my uh i always say woodrow wilson and teddy roosevelt because they like to champion the antitrust and anti-money those are good roosevelt square deal i think i think that'd be a good model for you actually as an independent the roosevelt square deal that is a good answer, and I will allow it, but you still have to answer the question of best and worst of your lifetime.

We got to do it.

Best and worst.

Man,

that's tough putting me on the spot like that.

It is tough.

I'll tell you, I was going through.

I mean,

I worked for Jeb, not George Bush.

I was like, I'd love to say George Bush.

I was like, it's hard to give any of the presidents of the 2000s anything better than like a C plus, but C plus is still better than F.

Okay, well, I'll say economically, Bill Clinton was the best president.

He finished his term with the surplus.

It's hard to argue that

he knew what he was doing when it came to the economy.

And I think one of the worst things that have happened, and this is coming from my world as being a union member, is Ronald Reagan with air traffic controllers and making it so public union sectors can't strike their employers.

That has been devastating for workers.

That's interesting.

I don't know if that's if you'll accept those answers.

All right, no, that's a good answer.

All right.

Final question.

Final question.

I hated Husker football growing up in Denver.

You know, Nebraska beat Colorado every damn year, my whole childhood.

And Husker football has fallen on hard times.

So I'm wondering if you have any solutions to that as an independent candidate.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

They have fallen on hard times, but that was in the past, my friend.

So we have Dylan Riola now and five-star recruit.

This is his second year.

They are,

I'm predicting four losses and a pretty predominant bowl game.

And then, and then the next two years, we're going to be competitors for the national championship.

So, we're back.

Okay.

We're back.

You're back.

Nebraska is back.

Huskers football is back.

I don't know.

You can start hating us again.

You can start hating us again.

Yeah.

It's been too sad to dislike.

You know, I've had to refocus on Bama and Texas.

Horns down.

All right.

Dan Osborne, man, I appreciate the time coming back.

Good luck on the campaign.

I guess

you're still working, man.

But once you get onto onto the campaign trail, good luck at that.

And we'll be talking to you soon.

All right.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate the interview and having me on.

All right.

Everybody else, have a great weekend.

We'll see you back here on Monday with Bill Crystal.

Peace.

Super thick chunks of broken life and reality.

Healthy dinner table come to me.

I think about my friend, my exit's here.

I'm a road so long, a million miles or so.

Too much for me.

I got to go.

My navigator's here.

And say it's not this time of year.

They say it's not this time of year.

Say it's not this time of year on Jupiter.

Except for the meteor.

And the prescription's so flat that I don't care.

I never use this map.

How am I made in there?

I don't know Jack, but I say it's sincere.

Oh,

my navigators here.

Super thick chunks of broken light in the Milky Way.

You never know if they're burning bright.

Then anchorage is homes about half the night, half the day, and most of the time.

Summer's bright, all the time, then the winter comes.

in the sad snatch this time of year.

The sad snatch this time of year.

Sad snatch this time of year.

And ain't a rip.

Set for the pot and beer.

And old busker's so flat that I don't care.

We'll never use this mouth.

Hell, I'm in it.

I don't know, Jack, but I'll stay sincere.

The Bullworth Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

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