Neera Tanden: Aiding and Abetting Trump

Transcript

Speaker 2 We, the people, in order to form a more perfect union.

Speaker 4 These words are more than just the opening of the Constitution.

Speaker 7 They're a reminder of who this country belongs to and what we can be at our best.

Speaker 9 They're also the cornerstone of MS Now.

Speaker 11 Whether it's breaking news, exclusive reporting, election coverage, or in-depth analysis, MS Now keeps the people at the heart of everything they do.

Speaker 20 Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Saki, and more voices you know and trust, MS Now is your source for news, opinion, and the world.

Speaker 26 Their name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress, and the truth you've relied on for decades.

Speaker 30 They'll continue to cover the day's news, ask the tough questions, and explain how it impacts you.

Speaker 34 Same mission, new name, MS Now.

Speaker 37 Learn more at MS.now.

Speaker 38 Every day, it's the same thing for my treatment for opioid addiction. It reminds me of my addiction.

Speaker 38 Every day, it's the same thing for my treatment for opioid addiction. Every day, it's the same thing.

Speaker 39 Every day.

Speaker 40 Day after day, does treatment for opioid addiction leave a bad taste?

Speaker 41 Visit rethinkyourrecovery.com to learn more and find a doctor.

Speaker 42 Hello, and welcome to the Bulwark Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller.

Speaker 44 Delighted to welcome back one of my favorite posters, president and CEO of Center for American Progress, formerly Domestic Policy Council Director under Joe Biden.

Speaker 31 It's Nira Tanda.

Speaker 45 What's going on, Nira?

Speaker 39 You know, I feel like I'm experiencing the greatest amount of joy I've had in the first six months. So I'm just happy to express myself.

Speaker 46 Is it a Bali or

Speaker 46 what?

Speaker 39 I feel like going two weeks on Epstein has just, you know, put a spring in my step.

Speaker 37 Yeah, some endorphins.

Speaker 47 Okay.

Speaker 45 But you're not concerned at all about the imminent arrest of Barack Obama?

Speaker 39 Yeah, I'm not really worried about the imminent arrest. I mean, I do think it's unfortunate we live in a kind of crazy la-la land that.
like that we could actually talk about something so insane. But

Speaker 39 my general take is that I have never seen a politician or political leader in my lifetime act as guilty as Donald Trump has acted in the last two weeks.

Speaker 39 So, I mean, I feel like it's like he's indicting himself.

Speaker 52 So, you're saying you don't think Barack Obama's like quaking in his boots right now, you know, sitting around his home, wherever he's no.

Speaker 39 I don't think he's quaking in his boots, in particular, because Donald Trump's Secretary of State, Mark Rubio, is the one who said, who backed up everything Barack Barack Obama said about Russian interference with the elections.

Speaker 39 And when he talked about Russian interference in the elections, he was talking about what has been well established, that they,

Speaker 39 you know, use disinformation. And just want to say, one of the victims of that disinformation right here during the 2016 election.
So I was following the news pretty.

Speaker 56 like closely on this i'm sorry mira i think i think you're part of the hoax there i think that when you put you put out your own emails and you dealt dealt with all of the slander and all of the terrible news coverage in the New York Times, it was all part of an elaborate hoax working in concert with Barack Obama to pretend like the Russians.

Speaker 39 Yes, to pretend like the Russians were hurting Hillary Clinton to elect Donald Trump.

Speaker 52 To elect Donald Trump.

Speaker 60 So that you could, I don't know, do something during the transition to slow down his presidency.

Speaker 33 Like the whole thing is just, it doesn't even make sense if you say it.

Speaker 14 I do.

Speaker 50 Marco hasn't really gotten impressed on this.

Speaker 39 Yes, he hasn't gotten impressed. Someone should.
I mean, you know, what's really sort of tragic about Marco Rubio as a human being is, you know, I remember testifying in front of foreign relations.

Speaker 39 I think, yeah, it was foreign relations in the spring of 2016. So it was after he was out of the primary, but still like a normal Republican.

Speaker 39 And he was talking about the importance of NATO and how we needed strong alliances. And he threatened, you know, he's talking about the threat of Russia.

Speaker 39 And he has like literally eaten every actual view he's ever had in order to be Secretary of State. So I really welcome how he handles this.
But, you know, you don't need to listen to me.

Speaker 39 I mean, there's plenty of video of him talking about Russia's interference with the elections.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 59 Well, hopefully, I don't know.

Speaker 63 Hopefully he gets pressed on that a little bit in the coming weeks.

Speaker 60 I do think we're going to get to your CAP immigration plan.

Speaker 57 I want to kind of talk about the Project 2029 stuff in a second.

Speaker 41 But

Speaker 64 the thing about Marco

Speaker 59 to me this week that I just really can't get over is thank God those men are out of Sakat, right?

Speaker 32 They do this trade with Venezuela,

Speaker 67 this hostage deal.

Speaker 9 And there's a story out today.

Speaker 6 I don't know if you've seen this.

Speaker 64 One of the people we traded for was the perpetrator of a triple murder in Madrid.

Speaker 52 Yeah, he killed people with an axe, I guess,

Speaker 52 Dahood, Hanid, Ortiz.

Speaker 29 And it's like, Marco just gives this huge geopolitical win to Maduro, to the communist dictator that he like supports, proposes to hate.

Speaker 50 And now Maduro gets to go around saying, I saved these men from the capitalist white devil and be accurate about it, kind of.

Speaker 68 And

Speaker 68 we sent the people that were fleeing communism to like a concentration camp.

Speaker 47 And it's all Marco.

Speaker 72 I feel like he almost gets kind of a pass on this because people focus on, you know, Trump and the Stephen Miller.

Speaker 64 But it was, Marco's the Secretary of State.

Speaker 37 It was Marco that orchestrated this whole thing where we send the people to El Salvador. They were fleeing communism just like his parents did.

Speaker 17 And then now he gives this huge win to Maduro.

Speaker 39 It's wild. I mean, even, I mean, that is a horrible story, but let's just step back.
These people were fleeing Venezuela and now they are being and and why were they fleeing Venezuela?

Speaker 39 Many of them were opponents of the Maduro regime. You know, in a normal world, Republicans would have supported opponents of the regime, a Marxist regime, right?

Speaker 39 So, like, that's what's also really crazy about this whole immigration/slash human cruelty regime, right?

Speaker 39 You have people in any other time who are fleeing a communist regime coming to the United States to make a better life for themselves.

Speaker 39 You know, we did take a lot of Venezuelans, totally accept that, but they were people who are, you know, basically basically

Speaker 39 most of these people were political opponents of a Marxist administration. We send them to an El Salvadoran gulag.
Our courts say that's like reprehensible.

Speaker 39 So instead of pulling these people back into the United States because they think this would be some kind of political loser, right, to acknowledge that their plan was wrong, they have sent the opponents of the regime back to Venezuela, right?

Speaker 39 So, I mean, if you actually think about it, it gives a lie to like 50, 60 years of Republican foreign policy about how we have to be a beacon against communism and Marxism.

Speaker 39 And it's just like, it's just another core Republican tenant set aside for MAGA white nationalism that doesn't want brown people here. So, I mean, that's what I think.

Speaker 39 I mean, I'd love Marco Rubio to ask like why he thinks it's okay. I mean, would he be okay if if we sent Cubans back to Cuba? No, that would be terrible because they're opponents of the regime.

Speaker 39 I mean, who knows now? But, you know, usually like you want to ensure

Speaker 39 that people who leave dictatorships and who are actually fleeing to democratic capitalist countries, you know, that has helped us geopolitically in the past.

Speaker 50 Yeah.

Speaker 52 I mean, Marco kind of positions his own story as having fled communism, even though technically I think his parents fled like the pre-communist fascists in Cuba, but any either way, just a total, a total gift to Maduro in exchange, apparently for an axe murderer.

Speaker 57 Before we get into the more challenging questions, let's just

Speaker 5 kind of roll around in the upstein.

Speaker 11 Suffer a little bit and just in this fucking bed that they've made for themselves.

Speaker 39 Yeah, live by the sword, die by the sword, my friend. It is like, you know, like, it is the most like karma experience.
Like, it's so.

Speaker 37 Really is.

Speaker 30 So the house is shutting down until September, I guess.

Speaker 63 Ann Coulter, famous lib, tweeted, this totally conveys innocence with a screenshot of the Mike Johnson plan to shut down the house.

Speaker 5 I guess on the one hand, I just kind of riff on what it says that

Speaker 52 they've completely, I guess, given up on governing because they are covering up this Epstein situation.

Speaker 39 But also, I mean, I guess about the democratic strategy and how that's, it feels like they finally found their sea legs a little bit on using the limited power they have to pressure these guys yeah i mean let's just be clear what's happening here is because there is a bipartisan but heavily democratic discharge petition that's you know also pressuring the rules committee um because you know democrats and some Republicans, but mostly Democrats are talking about the Epstein case.

Speaker 39 And let's just be reminded what the Epstein case is about. The Epstein case is about Jeffrey Epstein, who is a known sex trafficker.

Speaker 39 And because essentially people are asking for the files to be released, Republicans do not want to take a vote on the release of the files.

Speaker 39 Because, I mean, let's just also say, let's say you're a Republican. Like, why are they trying to avoid this vote so much, right? Like, let's just game this out.

Speaker 39 Let's say you're a Republican House member and you vote no on releasing the files, right?

Speaker 39 Like, we could get a vote where a handful, most likely outcome here on a discharge petition is a handful of Republicans join Democrats in getting a discharge petition and getting a push for release of the files.

Speaker 39 Somehow the files come out after this discharge petition and then you have voted no, which is what most of the Republican Party will do because Donald Trump will demand that. And then

Speaker 39 terrible things come out about Donald Trump. So you have now just opposed that.
So I think this is a protection of his own members.

Speaker 39 And I think they're hoping that people will just forget this in the next five weeks, which is odd since they haven't forgotten it in six years since the man died. But of course, who knows?

Speaker 39 I think at this point, you know, when people are in power in a moment like this, you're in a scandal. People are living day to day.
I think Mike Johnson is just like, I need to get out of town.

Speaker 39 So to me, this whole effort is just confirmation about the fear of what's in these files because no one

Speaker 39 would

Speaker 39 get the headlines of closing down the house, which, of course, I cannot remember this ever happening. I've lived through some scandals, by the way.

Speaker 39 Of course, I worked for Bill Clinton in the last couple of years there. Lived through some scandals myself.

Speaker 39 We never, I've never seen the House just shut down business, the Senate just shut down business,

Speaker 39 either house shut down business in order to avoid votes on a scandal.

Speaker 39 So, I mean, I just think this confirmation to not just, you know, tin hat foil-wearing people, but to just normal people that the entire Republican Party is in Couhouth to close these files down.

Speaker 65 Yeah, when this all started, I think Hakeem Jeffries' point was well taken, which was kind of like they're either covering up something about Trump in these documents or, you know, they're embarrassed because they're lying the whole time about their, you know, being whatever Epstein files at all.

Speaker 55 It's not even really an either-or for me anymore.

Speaker 65 Like, it's pretty clear they're just covering up something that that for Trump.

Speaker 58 And, you know, you have this Durbin letter to Cash Patel that's like, supposedly, according, and I assume you got this information from people inside the Justice Department, they had FBI officials reviewing these documents and flagging mentions of Trump.

Speaker 47 Yeah.

Speaker 65 So to me, that signals that they have at least some mentions of Donald Trump in the files.

Speaker 39 I mean, not only that, but this is, again, yesterday they announced, just a reminder, it's the president's personal attorney is the deputy attorney general. Also weird, just to say out loud.

Speaker 39 Isn't it stupid? But it's also like, let's just think about that. Isn't that suspicious at this point that he put his personal lawyer as a corporate attorney?

Speaker 46 Personal criminal attorney, too. His personal criminal attorney as a minder attorney.

Speaker 5 Like his campaign attorney or whatever, like his criminal attorney.

Speaker 39 Yeah, it's like, you know, I mean, for those of us who want to go into the Wayback Machine of the Clinton era, it's like putting David Kendall, Bill Clinton's personal attorney, like as deputy to Janet Reno.

Speaker 39 I think people would have found that really weird. So, okay, I mean, Trump makes everything weird, so like it just normalizes.

Speaker 39 But just now, in the context of all of this, I think it looks really weird. But so his personal criminal attorney, who is a deputy AG, announces yesterday that he's going to interview Maxwell.

Speaker 39 Slain Maxwell.

Speaker 39 So just a reminder, they put out a memo two weeks ago saying there's no there there to this. There's no client list, there's nothing to this scandal.

Speaker 39 And it's clear that they never even talked to Ghislaine Maxwell in order to determine the backing of that memo.

Speaker 39 So, like, this is what the problem is in a scandal: it's impossible to think 10 steps ahead. And I think, you know, you are absolutely right at the beginning of the scandal.

Speaker 39 It was like, well, I mean, Pam Bondi was telling the truth. She's telling the truth now, or she's telling the truth in February, but she couldn't be telling the truth both times.

Speaker 39 Now, during all of that, I was like, of course, why is Pampandi going through any of this unless someone is ordering her to?

Speaker 39 But now I think it feels pretty certain because, of course, you could just throw Pam Pandi under the bus with this level of scandal, right? You could, you don't, you don't have to fire her.

Speaker 39 You could just say she was an idiot, she screwed this whole thing up, she can apologize. But they're not doing that.
He's defending Pam Bondi. You know, it's not like he's known for loyalty.

Speaker 39 He's defending Pam Bondi.

Speaker 46 Because he's doing what he wants.

Speaker 39 Yes, because he's, because basically, like, what's the most obvious answer here? They're all covering up Donald Trump in the files. Like, that just seems like so,

Speaker 39 and like you would not have the House just adjourn, and all these Republicans have to answer the question if it was really just an issue of Pam Bondi looking like a jerk. Like, nobody would do that.

Speaker 39 Hence the spring in my step. I mean, I shouldn't, I'm not like, I mean, I'm not trying to be a total jerk, but it's been a rough six months.
We need to take it.

Speaker 56 You got to take your wins where you can get them.

Speaker 39 You got to just take the joys where you have them.

Speaker 77 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 80 This season, we're sharing powerful stories of resilience from people living with MG and CIDP.

Speaker 74 Our hope is to inspire, educate, and remind each other that even in the toughest moments, we're not alone.

Speaker 77 We'll hear from people like Corbin Whittington.

Speaker 80 After being diagnosed with both CIDP and dilated cardiomyopathy, he found incredible strength through community.

Speaker 89 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 94 Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 We the people, in order to form a more perfect union.

Speaker 53 As you mentioned, you've been on the incoming side of some select committees and some oversight committees and subpoenas and all that.

Speaker 72 So thinking about that, I mean, if the Democrats take back the House, we'll get to the politics this in a little bit.

Speaker 51 Like, what are the tools, I guess, available for them both right now when they're in the majority and then prospectively next year if they were to take the majority back as far as Epstein is concerned?

Speaker 39 Yeah, right now, I mean, I think the most important thing, most important tool they have is the fact that there is such bipartisan outrage about this stance and the lack of transparency that Republicans are feeling more pressure on this.

Speaker 39 I mean, it is a little ironic that they feel more pressure on Jeffrey Epstein than like cutting health care for millions of people. That is like kind of a weird thing.

Speaker 16 Letting the poorest children in the world die.

Speaker 47 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 35 Sure. There are other things that you would think they'd feel pressure on, but okay.

Speaker 39 Yeah. Yeah.
No, I mean, like, I do think that's a like unfortunate thing about their side, but whatever. So, you know, that is obviously creating a lot of

Speaker 39 pressure when you have Josh Hawley, Tim Burchett, others saying, you know, just get all the material out there, even though they all know Donald Trump does not want to get all the material out there.

Speaker 39 So I think their number one tool, which they are using, is the discharge petition. It is to, they are using, and I just want to say, in the rules committee, there are not limits on amendments.

Speaker 39 So the threat of the amendments in the rules committee is really what's getting everyone scared

Speaker 39 avoid a rule. So rules are necessary for bills that are not overwhelmingly supported.
So any kind of any bill that has like you would get 55 or 60% of Congress to vote for.

Speaker 39 So that's what's making them close down. Essentially, they don't want to face a vote in the rules committee.
So I think the Democrats have been very strong.

Speaker 39 And, you know, I will say, you know, it does feel like they are bringing a gun-to-a-gun fight. You know, they are saying out loud, release the files if Donald Trump has nothing to hide.

Speaker 39 You know, I know that it sounds, you know, it's like a little weird for members.

Speaker 39 Maybe they feel uncomfortable saying like the strongest accusation here, but we have to make clear what we are fighting for, and that is transparency about a case in which a man victimized lots and lots of girls and women.

Speaker 39 And it is a case where,

Speaker 39 you know, it was a bunch of powerful men who seemed to be victimizing people.

Speaker 39 Jeffrey Epstein got a sweetheart deal on his first interactions with law enforcement, in part, I think, really because he was so powerful and had a lot of friends.

Speaker 39 And just as a reminder, the prosecutor who gave him that sweetheart deal was... in Donald Trump's cabinet as his first labor secretary.

Speaker 39 So in his first term, he had to resign because of all the interactions with Epstein.

Speaker 39 So, you know, I mean, I just think like this is an area where you just have to prosecute the case aggressively, and it is having an impact.

Speaker 39 I mean, the fact that Democrats are carrying this has made the Republicans, you know, go into kind of free fall.

Speaker 39 But I will also say an important thing is if they take power next year, you know, they should commit to issuing subpoenas to release the files.

Speaker 23 Yeah, there should be a Benghazi-style committee.

Speaker 39 Absolutely. Absolutely.
A giant public committee airing everything that happened with these files. And also, let's also, they will also should be going through

Speaker 39 the actions around this cover-up over the last, or, you know, seeming cover-up over the last, you know, basically a couple of weeks.

Speaker 53 Suppina of the people that were reviewing these documents.

Speaker 95 Like, if that's true.

Speaker 39 Suppina Pambandi to come forward. You know, I mean, look, they could, the Republicans could have Pam Bandi testified this week.
They are not doing that. Why? Because they're scared what she will say.

Speaker 24 Okay.

Speaker 50 I have one loyal listener who will be upset at me if I don't ask you this legit question, which is, if Trump is in these files as much as it seems like he is, why didn't the Biden administration do anything about this?

Speaker 3 An administration you are in?

Speaker 47 What do you think about that?

Speaker 39 Yeah, so this is what I'd say to this. I mean, I get this all the time.

Speaker 35 So I didn't think you were not going to be expecting the question, but

Speaker 96 it is a question that merits.

Speaker 39 It's like anytime I say anything

Speaker 39 on FC, they're like, why didn't Joe Biden, why didn't Joe Biden release the files? And And this is why I'd say,

Speaker 39 have you met Merrick Garland?

Speaker 35 We're blaming Merrick Garland.

Speaker 46 Okay.

Speaker 39 I mean, I'm just saying, first of all, I mean, like, legitimately, the Joe Biden White House had nothing to do with enforcement on any topic.

Speaker 39 If anything, we, because of the abuses of the Trump administration, the White House, you know, didn't engage in any particular enforcement matter.

Speaker 39 We barely did engage in criminal and policy with the Department of Justice. They were so arms like this.

Speaker 39 So, I mean, I can attest to that that

Speaker 39 from my experience as DPC domestic policy chair. We in the White House had no idea.
So I can't really tell you why Merrick Erland didn't do it. I would say that he was hypersensitive about

Speaker 39 any perceptions of unfairness

Speaker 39 to a point where I think, you know, I'm not sure justice was always even done.

Speaker 39 And I can imagine he thought,

Speaker 39 you know, after he's doing January 6th and all the conservative blowback on that, maybe he wouldn't even look into Ghislaine Maxwell. But someone should ask him because

Speaker 39 Maxwell and Epstein.

Speaker 9 But he could have been nice and bipartisan and nabbed Bill Clinton and Donald Trump.

Speaker 35 It would have been okay with me.

Speaker 46 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 39 I wish they did. I mean, I wish he had looked into it.
I mean, I kind of think this became like a, this was an issue of the far right that was really pushing it with some kind of crazy allegations.

Speaker 39 And it would have been better.

Speaker 39 I mean, like, let's just remember Donald Trump was president when jeffrey epstein committed suicide it's not like he committed suicide in the clinton white house or something in the clinton administration so you know bill barr was attorney general when he committed suicide and uh bill barr's dad gave him his first job longtime friend of the barr family so take that for what you will

Speaker 46 you know like what is

Speaker 39 some missing minutes in the camera that's all i know i know it's exactly i mean also what's weird is you know according to wired they're now three minutes missing like doesn't that feel weird?

Speaker 39 Does that feel like a glitch?

Speaker 39 Three minutes missing in the camera? I don't know.

Speaker 39 It's like, I just think it's like.

Speaker 26 Which takes me to my Pete Buddigitch question back to you, though, thinking about Merrick Garland, which was, if you had a time machine, if you had a DeLorean, you could go back to the beginning of the Biden administration and you could sit down.

Speaker 57 I mean, Joe doesn't drink, but you could sit down with the former president.

Speaker 56 You're in the Oval Office, and he's just like, Neera.

Speaker 32 You have this wisdom, having come from the future.

Speaker 21 Tell me one thing I should do different.

Speaker 52 Is Merritt Garland the thing you do different or something else?

Speaker 39 I mean, I think Merrick Garland, yeah, I mean, I would have, I mean, Merrick Garland is a very nice man and has a lot of wisdom on a lot of topics, but I just think was not

Speaker 39 like living in the world that we are in today. You know, he just, I mean, I think it's a tragedy.
He moved on the special prosecutor around

Speaker 39 January 6th. So it took him so long to do that that it just became impossible to have real accountability.
And I think that's, you know, we're kind of living with the results and that's a tragedy.

Speaker 39 And I think he thought, and you know, I'd say, look, I think a real challenge is that in the Biden administration, there was this whole theory of like, we just need to restore institutions and order.

Speaker 39 And I think there was a just, you know, a broad misunderstanding that politics has fundamentally changed.

Speaker 39 I don't think you should have a Department of Justice that's weaponized like the current one, but I also think, you know, like you have to think about time horizons on accountability and go a little bit faster than rather go so slow.

Speaker 89 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center, that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 6 They're a reminder of who this country belongs to.

Speaker 7 and what we can be at our best.

Speaker 30 All right.

Speaker 50 That takes us to the current current day, whether we've learned any of those lessons.

Speaker 43 Let's talk a little bit about some democracy concerns.

Speaker 44 The redistricting stuff is out there.

Speaker 21 Obviously, Texas talking about redistricting.

Speaker 57 They think that they can potentially get five more seats out of there.

Speaker 15 I mean, I looked at that map.

Speaker 58 It's a preposterous map that would go from like Houston to Amarillo or something. There'd be a district.
So

Speaker 70 I don't know if they're really going to be able to get five out of there.

Speaker 50 You know, there's some discussions about what the Democrats can do, or can or should do.

Speaker 57 J.B. Pritzker in Illinois said earlier this week, we ought to play by the rules, but counterbalance might be necessary.

Speaker 25 Is that the right way to think about it?

Speaker 6 Is counterbalance the right way to think about it?

Speaker 57 Or should California and Illinois just start doing redistricting right now?

Speaker 39 I mean, I think it's hard to redistrict a little bit more out of Illinois since I don't really think they have many Republicans. They have very few seats there, but it's a really good thing.

Speaker 36 We can't squeeze two more out of there.

Speaker 37 We can't squeeze two more out of them.

Speaker 39 My overall take here is that, you know, democracy is really on the line. Let's just be clear what's happening.

Speaker 39 Donald Trump has called up the governor of Texas and said, I want you to squeeze five more seats because he thinks if he does not, if he has the playing field he has today, which is not even really level because North Carolina already did a post-decennial redistrict and gained three seats, which against

Speaker 39 that map is absurd. And just to say, if they hadn't done those three seats, we could be like, Speaker Jeffries, one seat, one seat away from that, or like right there, any moment.

Speaker 39 So, so, you know, like, I think the lesson, basically, what Trump wants to- If you had fewer Democrats died and North Carolina not redistricted, maybe we'd have Speaker Jeffries.

Speaker 39 I'm for both of those things. Okay.

Speaker 95 Alive Democrats,

Speaker 46 right,

Speaker 39 right, people not running who are that old. So, so I'd say, you know, if we just recognize what's going on, Trump thinks he's going to lose with the maps that we have.

Speaker 39 He's going to lose the House with the maps that he has. He's probably worried about accountability for Jeffrey Epstein and any other accountability.
And so that's why he is asking to change the rules.

Speaker 39 And, you know, we had Better O'Rourke at the Center for American Progress. And, you know, he talked about this issue specifically.

Speaker 39 And, you know, I think there's an incredibly persuasive case to make that the actual way to stop this race to the bottom, right?

Speaker 39 I mean, the fundamental problem we have is Republicans are willing to squeeze out more seats and Democrats are, Democratic, you know, blue states have kind of traditionally done these commissions.

Speaker 39 So what does that create? It's an imbalance where Republicans can put power above process or due process or norms or right, like the right thing to do or morality and just gain power.

Speaker 39 And I think, unfortunately, we live in a world right at the moment where you have to fight fire with fire.

Speaker 39 The only thing we can do to stop a Texas from going through an ugly redistricting is a threat of blue states doing the same.

Speaker 39 And if they go and proceed, you know, blue states are going to have to do that. And it will be hard in California.

Speaker 39 But I mean, I think they should undertake the process of, you know, like re-looking at their constitution, their proposition on their commissions, because that's, you know, California is going to be an important counter to what happens in Texas.

Speaker 60 Are there other states besides California that could do that?

Speaker 57 I know there's some talk in Wisconsin, but they're getting stymied by the state Supreme Court.

Speaker 59 Are there other places that could potentially?

Speaker 39 New York had a map. They went through an interaction with their courts.
Maryland

Speaker 39 has potential maps. They've had some challenges with their courts.

Speaker 39 I do think there'll be a question of how courts look at these redistricts, even in blue states, if they are looking at Texas kind of redistricting in the middle to do it.

Speaker 39 So, you know, I like, unfortunately, we live in a world. Now, some of us argued, like,

Speaker 39 in a decade ago, that maybe blue states shouldn't go through these commission processes because Republican states could do things like this.

Speaker 39 And I remember really, you know, like good people, good, good, good, good, good government people saying, no, no, no, we have to role model.

Speaker 39 But this is exactly why you need national legislation that prohibits gerrymandering because otherwise you do get this asymmetry. Like, blue states go through these independent commissions.

Speaker 39 Like, that's the problem in California. They have an independent commission.

Speaker 39 And red states just like, you know, almost illegally draw lines that now there's like essential lawlessness around because the Supreme Court has like exited this area.

Speaker 39 And so that is like the fundamental,

Speaker 39 you know, I mean, we just live in a world where if one party is going to do put power above everything else, the only way to address that is really strong countermeasures.

Speaker 59 I have another strategic question for you about Texas that's a little, it's maybe a little touchy.

Speaker 51 And so I want to give a give a give a long preamble to it to be nice to people because you had Betto at CAP yesterday.

Speaker 57 I love Betto.

Speaker 71 It seems like he's thinking about running.

Speaker 65 I don't know if he's going to.

Speaker 51 I like Colin Ulred a lot, who's running for Senate in Texas.

Speaker 52 This guy, James Tallarico, I don't know him, but he seems like a good person. And his Joe Rogan interview is nice.

Speaker 72 You look at Iowa.

Speaker 52 Zach Walls is running.

Speaker 50 Great guy.

Speaker 56 All these people seem like good people.

Speaker 52 They also all seem like different flavors of vanilla Democrat to me.

Speaker 56 And

Speaker 56 the Democrats

Speaker 37 really need to win Texas or Iowa if they ever want to take back the Senate again.

Speaker 9 And so, I don't know, you're kind of more in these meetings than me.

Speaker 72 I say it about myself.

Speaker 68 Like, I like me as well, but I wouldn't pitch me as the solution for winning back a Louisiana Senate seat from Bill Cassidy.

Speaker 57 I don't think I'd be the strongest candidate to put up for that.

Speaker 58 You know,

Speaker 58 a gay guy, I don't think it's probably going to win Louisiana, even as a former Republican.

Speaker 72 So, you got to be kind of hard-headed about this stuff.

Speaker 37 Is there any effort to try to recruit people in these states, like that

Speaker 27 have a little bit of independence from the Democratic brand?

Speaker 42 Are those conversations happening?

Speaker 37 Are there worries about this?

Speaker 58 Or is everybody just going to kind of get on board with

Speaker 70 the horses that we got in these races?

Speaker 39 You know, I think the thing for all of us to think about is: how do we have

Speaker 39 policies and ideas that can actually win in purple, purple to red states.

Speaker 39 So, you know, I think this is like the big, you know, we had this big debate. Should we,

Speaker 39 there are lots of Democrats who are like, you should recruit like

Speaker 39 union members who are independents and a bunch of these states. Sure.

Speaker 46 Dan Osborne style.

Speaker 39 You're like a Dan Osborne style.

Speaker 39 And look, John Bell Edwards won the governorship of Louisiana, and he is, you know, he is for life. He's anti-choice.

Speaker 39 but he did a Medicaid expansion, or Andy did a Medicaid expansion, you know, I mean, and like did a lot of good in that state, right? So I think we have to do really two things.

Speaker 39 One is we have to give grace to people who have different positions than other people in states that they are running in.

Speaker 39 But I also think we need a fundamental rethink of how we have policies and ideas that can appeal to people in a place like Iowa, as well as a place like Illinois or California.

Speaker 39 And I will say, you know, this is maybe to get to it, you know, this is one of the ideas behind our immigration plan.

Speaker 39 We know Center for American Progress put forward an immigration plan that secures the border, it ends the abuse of the asylum system.

Speaker 39 We do believe there was misuse and abuse of the asylum system over the last four years, longer actually, since 2017. Started

Speaker 39 really 2015, 2016, grew in 2017. The smugglers figured out the system back

Speaker 39 over like almost a decade ago. So we fixed those parts and also believe we should expand legal immigration and I think and provide a path to citizenship for people who've been here 10 years or longer.

Speaker 39 And I think that plan, you know, that plan is broadly supported in the country. It's

Speaker 39 60, 70 percent and can and can be a plan that you could talk about in Iowa and California. And that is what I think actually the party needs to do.
It has to have ideas.

Speaker 39 I mean, you can ask candidates to go into states and run against the party, right?

Speaker 39 Like, or you can expand the tent of the party so that it's actually welcoming of ideas that are a little bit more broadly expansive than where we have been.

Speaker 39 And my view is that, you know, it's important to offer ideas out there that a person running in Iowa doesn't have to run away from, but could actually strongly embrace and say this is kind of a mainstream view.

Speaker 39 Because, you know, the truth is we live in a hyper-polarized world and you can have a great candidate, but if, you know, basically they have to say, I'm going to vote, you know, I'm going to fight the party, then if you really want to fight the party, you'll just go with a Republican.

Speaker 39 So I kind of think you have to actually engage in a broader effort to kind of recenter ideas and the party and our immigration plan is one step in doing that.

Speaker 39 You know, we also have to have ideas that excite our base and other things.

Speaker 39 You know, we're not like fighting with the base every day, but we're trying to create ideas that kind of can unite people to get to a better,

Speaker 39 higher ground and not create those conflicts.

Speaker 39 And also, I, you know, just to say one last word, and in Iowa and other places, I think if you have a plan, if a Democrat even in Iowa has a plan where they can, you know, talk about a secure border, it allows them to go on offense against Republicans who right now are like eliminating due process or ignoring due process to pick people off the streets who have been here 10, 20 years, eliminate the legal status people have so you can deport them.

Speaker 39 I mean, people have been here 30 years, 25 years, 30 years, under legal status from temporary protected status because they were fleeing a communist regime. They got that status.

Speaker 39 This administration's policies are so extreme, they're getting rid of that status so they can deport them to countries they don't even know.

Speaker 39 So I think Democrats should be able to go on offense on these issues, but they probably feel more secure if they have a big plan that does that.

Speaker 51 I mean, I think that you're right exactly on the immigration stuff.

Speaker 58 I guess I would ask, I mean, if there are any other of those types of policies you want to talk about, about like what might make sense for the Democrats in a proactive policy platform, but also just think about it in the context of.

Speaker 51 I mean, I'm with you.

Speaker 65 I mean, I'm a moderate squish.

Speaker 5 So let's put out a policy platform that's going to appeal to 60% of the country.

Speaker 52 That's probably going to appeal to me more.

Speaker 45 But that's not really what MAGA did, right?

Speaker 52 Like they put out their Project 2025 plan that had a lot of deeply unpopular things in it, but they were able to kind of offset it because Trump did run against the party, not against the Trump party, but against the Bush Party, basically, on like wars and entitlements, essentially.

Speaker 5 And so, I don't know, is there not room to kind of do both, right?

Speaker 58 Like have a can't, you know, have a broader, more appealing agenda, but also run against whatever people perceive to be some unpopular parts of the party over the last decade.

Speaker 39 Yeah, but, you know, you could embrace our immigration plan and be a critic of, you know, what happened in the last administration, right? Like,

Speaker 39 that's a way to also think about it.

Speaker 39 Trump did attack, you know, where I think lots of people thought the George Bush administration had gone wrong, which is the Iraq war was a disaster, and he was willing to say that.

Speaker 39 So, you know, I mean, future Democrats could say, maybe we handled this problem badly.

Speaker 39 That's fine. And, like, I think that's like important and good.
I think it's like, do you think people want candor? And it's important to be honest about those things.

Speaker 39 I guess I'd say, you know, when it comes to Project 2025, I think we should be really clear. Like, the Trump campaign was lying, but did say that Project 2025 wasn't their agenda.

Speaker 39 And so, you know, I do think there's an important role for people to do actually a version of Project 2025, which was go agency by agency.

Speaker 39 And our version, we would, and we will do this at the Center for American Progress,

Speaker 39 you know, go agency and aid by agency and actually think about how we can rebuild them to actually meet people's needs, which is kind of the inverse of what Project 2025 did, but it is like a similar kind of detailed plan.

Speaker 39 Over the next year, you know, we're going to be putting out ideas on a whole cross on a whole slew of issues.

Speaker 39 You know, and I think, again, we think of these as issues that can attract a broad majority, but they won't necessarily always be like squishy bit moderate or whatever.

Speaker 39 You know, I think there's really really bold ideas on housing that we can do that get to supply, but also take other steps.

Speaker 39 We will be offering ideas on, you know, I think how we ensure public safety in the country.

Speaker 39 I want to just remind everyone that working class people experience crime at a much higher level than, you know, college educated folks.

Speaker 39 And sometimes if we feel impervious to crime, we can communicate that it's really not that big a deal. And I think that's a problem.

Speaker 39 So, but, you know, I also think it's wrong that that Republicans kind of, and Trump does this every day, he creates a straw man between improving public safety and caring about people's civil rights.

Speaker 39 And we don't have to choose. We can actually lower crime and maintain due process rights and respects for people.
So, and I think, in my view, I think we have to answer the mail across the board.

Speaker 39 Like, I think a big challenge is sometimes we don't engage in these ideas, these debates. We just like retract.
And I think that is a huge problem.

Speaker 52 So you're not worried about the recruitment like me?

Speaker 51 We got into policy.

Speaker 58 You're not worried about the, you know, to feel like, I mean, it's okay.

Speaker 48 This is a fine position to have.

Speaker 61 I don't think there's a clear answer, right?

Speaker 56 Like, I don't, you know, going out and recruiting eight Dan Osborns, I don't know.

Speaker 64 Like that might not work, but, but it's different.

Speaker 71 It's something different.

Speaker 70 And the Democrats haven't won in these states in a while, in the Florida, Texas, Ohio, Iowa type states.

Speaker 55 And so I'm kind of open to different ideas.

Speaker 47 But where are you at on kind of the recruitment side?

Speaker 39 I mean, I guess my take is I'm open to different ideas too.

Speaker 39 And I actually think honestly, I mean, like if independents want to run, I think that then it like puts pressure on Democratic candidates to actually prove that they can win.

Speaker 39 I mean, I think my take in the Trump era is we should do whatever it takes to beat back the

Speaker 39 assault on democracy.

Speaker 39 And if that's a Dan Osborne in a state or others, but you know, I also think let's give people some chance to show that they can get a strong majority, you know, that they can actually win.

Speaker 77 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 90 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center, that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 14 Thinking of different ideas, you know, I have to ask you about Zoron Mania.

Speaker 52 You haven't always been the darling of the Zoron wing of the party, I wouldn't say, based on my learning of your Twitter mentions.

Speaker 46 I'm big tent.

Speaker 39 I'm big tent. I'm big tent everywhere.

Speaker 56 You're big tent.

Speaker 61 So you're cool.

Speaker 46 I don't want to push you.

Speaker 9 What were your observations about the Zoron campaign?

Speaker 56 What do you think about it?

Speaker 39 My basic take is: like, we should learn lessons where we can get them, right? He communicated, he communicates in a great way. He's very candid.
I do think, like,

Speaker 39 the lesson, you know, one of the things I draw from his videos, which I find very entertaining, honestly, is that he is

Speaker 39 taking on like things, elephants in the room. He talks about, you know, the New York, like basically the New York Post out to get him.
He jokes about it. He's funny.

Speaker 39 I think he does understand politics. It's also a little bit about entertainment.
He's gotten a lot of young people to support him. I mean, I have, I have some, you know,

Speaker 39 I do think he should condemn just clearly globalized intifada as an anti-Semitic term. And

Speaker 39 so, you know, but it does sound like he's moving in some direction or to me. It's not that complicated to just say it's like anti-Semitic.
It seems like an easy sentence.

Speaker 39 But, you know, I think we should be candid that we are kind of in a shitstorm, honestly, and we have to learn lessons of victory wherever we can get them.

Speaker 39 I also think New York City is a big, complicated place.

Speaker 39 And people, even in our party or in the Democratic Party, I should say our party, where I'm a 501c3, but in the Democratic Party, on the broad center left, should recognize New York has elected Republicans multiple times in the last couple of decades.

Speaker 39 So I think, you know, if I were advising the Mamdani campaign, I would say, like, you also have to demonstrate. There's a lot of talk about, you know, why aren't Democratic leaders embracing him?

Speaker 39 I could say they're not embracing him because there are some like deep concerns about some of his stances.

Speaker 39 But he should also recognize he has to reach out, not just in talking to people, but in some of his policies if he wants to have a broad coalition to defeat his opponents in the election, some of whom, you know, I think Cuomo did not run a good campaign.

Speaker 39 In fact, it was kind of a horrifying campaign in that he didn't actually campaign.

Speaker 39 But, you know, he's also, like, I think he's a tougher candidate than some people think in a general election in New York.

Speaker 10 I've become anti-anti Zoron a little bit, to steal a phrase from my old friends that are on

Speaker 61 the National Review who are anti-anti-Trump.

Speaker 19 I'm anti-anti-Zoron.

Speaker 37 And I think it's kind of weird that some of the Democrats haven't embraced it.

Speaker 71 Honestly, again, you can say, I think he has some policies I don't agree with, but he's clearly better than

Speaker 47 Eric Adams.

Speaker 51 I don't know.

Speaker 71 I mean, you don't see a lot of Republicans saying,

Speaker 58 like, formally saying I refuse to endorse Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Speaker 52 I don't know. Maybe they should.

Speaker 51 I guess I'm not sure.

Speaker 66 What do you think? It's a little

Speaker 62 strange that people are not just like.

Speaker 35 You can say I prefer him with reservations, right?

Speaker 39 Yeah. Look, I mean, I guess I'd say,

Speaker 39 I think honestly, what's happening? You're right, it is just a mayor's race. And, you know, because it's New York City, everyone thinks America is fixated on it.

Speaker 39 But I also think, like, look, I think there's a delicate dance probably going on behind the scenes of, you know, what, where does he move on some issues?

Speaker 39 Where does the, where do leaders move on some issues? And we're actual voters, you know?

Speaker 39 So my take is this is probably not the end of the story. It's probably the beginning of it where it is.
And, you know, we're not like Democrats aren't like Republicans.

Speaker 39 You know, most of the time, that's a good thing. You know, we aren't like just falling in line with everybody, etc.

Speaker 14 Yeah, I agree with that.

Speaker 45 I like the question was out, and halfway through the question, I was like, wait a minute, I want Republicans to not endorse Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Speaker 51 What am I doing? Why am I modeling that? Like that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 46 I know.

Speaker 39 Are you like, we're supposed to like say, I mean, and also, you're making, I mean, even, I'm not saying Mamdani's like Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Speaker 6 I just want to say you're comparing him to Marjorie Taylor Green.

Speaker 46 That was you.

Speaker 48 Well, I mean, they both have the same position on Israel, I guess.

Speaker 48 So they have that one thing in common.

Speaker 52 Okay, we're going to move on before I get in trouble.

Speaker 80 After being diagnosed with both both CIDP and dilated cardiomyopathy, he found incredible strength through community.

Speaker 89 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 18 Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Saki, and more voices you know and trust.

Speaker 22 MS Now is your source for news, opinion, and the world.

Speaker 37 Learn more at MS.Now.

Speaker 49 Speaking of the delicate dance behind the scenes, Chris Murphy said something to me yesterday.

Speaker 58 Now that I'm a media man, I'm a podcaster, I'm like out of,

Speaker 68 I don't go to the conferences with the donors and stuff anymore.

Speaker 58 It's just not my world. It used to be my world.

Speaker 57 You're still in that world.

Speaker 73 He was saying that he's still pretty concerned that like democratic donors are going to sit on the sidelines out of a combination of fear of retribution from Trump and a feeling of like, it's a fait accompli.

Speaker 70 The midterms are always good for thou party. Why should I put myself in the line?

Speaker 37 Are you worried about that? Are you seeing that at all in your kind of convos?

Speaker 39 I mean, I think an asymmetric asset that Trump has and is definitely using is that he uses fear to intimidate people.

Speaker 39 So I think there are a range of institutions, not just donors, philanthropy, like the business sector, who's, you know, would have been in any normal world standing up a lot more to the insanity that we're seeing.

Speaker 39 And he's, there are actually a whole range of people who I think are just basically intimidated into

Speaker 39 not engaging in the fight.

Speaker 39 And I find that very frustrating as a person who's engaged in the fight every day and just, you know, can't, like, I'm definitely under right-wing attack, but like, you have to, I want to tell my grandkids that I did everything I could in this moment to save the country.

Speaker 39 And I definitely think that's what's at stake. So I feel like people, the more outrageous Trump has become and the less popular he has become.

Speaker 39 And so it is important to remember he his, it's not like, you know, I think there's a discourse in Democratic politics a lot or in like the broad center left, you know, does politics polling doesn't actually matter.

Speaker 39 It doesn't matter if people go into the streets, he's impervious to everything, but it really does matter. It is signaling to other people that you can stand up against him.

Speaker 39 And when other countries, that, you know, other countries that have gone through authoritarian threats like this or bond others, when the opposition just goes to sleep because it's so ugly, that is when democracy fails.

Speaker 39 So I do think like donors are kind of getting

Speaker 39 a lot of people are kind of coming into the fight. There's obviously a need for a lot more,

Speaker 39 but we should also recognize that

Speaker 39 there is a kind of tremendous amount of fear. I mean, I've never had people raise to me issues like, could the administration come after me?

Speaker 39 And they are now, and that is a deep concern. But it's also, it's important to remind people every day, he is a deeply unpopular president.
He is the most unpopular president at this time.

Speaker 39 His actions on things that are strengths like immigration are unpopular with the country. His positions are unpopular.
The majority is against him.

Speaker 60 I love that you're in the fight. That's what I appreciate about you.
Is there anything that you're hot under the collar about that I didn't ask you about?

Speaker 53 Do you have any rants you want to pop off on anybody?

Speaker 39 I feel like, I mean, we could go on Jeffrey Epstein for 10, 15 more hours,

Speaker 39 but I feel like I might get in trouble.

Speaker 39 Everyone would sort of yell at me.

Speaker 39 The one thing I would say is you talk to a lot of leaders.

Speaker 39 A really important thing over the next six weeks into the August recess is for, you know, it's really important we talk about Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 39 I'm not one of these people who are like, we shouldn't talk about this. We should only talk about kitchen table issues.
But we have to talk about both.

Speaker 39 It is really important in the August recess that Republican House members who voted for this and lied to their constituents that it would be only minimal cuts.

Speaker 39 They would only vote for like $300 billion or $400 billion. And my favorite, Mike Lawler, who said he would absolutely not vote for more than $500 billion in Medicaid cuts and voted for a trillion.

Speaker 39 You know, they have to get the lesson in the recess that it is unacceptable to hurt people, take away people's health care for tax cuts for billionaires.

Speaker 8 I agree with that. Okay, last thing.

Speaker 49 Do you ever look at J.D.

Speaker 56 Vance and think to yourself, man,

Speaker 12 in a different world, I could have been the vice president for a president that's only job was to Twitter, to quote tweet our our enemies I feel like you would have been really good at that Nira like if you real if we had realized 10 years ago that that was the only qualification it could have been Biden tandon maybe and your job would have just been shit posting I would have been so good at that let's just be clear I know so yeah look at J.D.

Speaker 39 Vance you're like damn you know no you know what's actually weird about you know like I was a government wasn't really shit posting I really liked

Speaker 39 I mean I was really in, I was really behaving. And, you know, I liked, you know, I think a big difference between JD Vance and I.
I think we're probably both pretty good at shit posting.

Speaker 39 But like, I actually looked at government service as an opportunity to help people. And I just not tracking that as his top priority really at the moment.
So I think there's some big differences.

Speaker 39 Although, you know, we both went to Yale Law School and we were both research assistants for this like

Speaker 39 very good kind of cratchety liberal. I shouldn't call him cratchety because boy he wrote, but

Speaker 39 professor. So I know a little bit about him.

Speaker 39 Him and him that way.

Speaker 45 What about him?

Speaker 19 The thing about his Yale, so since you have that experience together, the thing that annoyed me, I have so many things that have annoyed me about him.

Speaker 43 I find him repulsive across every possible metric.

Speaker 26 He tells this origin story about going to Yale law as a country boy and he sat it at some fancy dinner that, you know, maybe that cratchety professor brought him to.

Speaker 20 And he didn't know which fork to use and how he felt like everyone around him did.

Speaker 52 And this was really radicalizing about how the elites have a culture

Speaker 52 that they don't translate.

Speaker 47 And I'm like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 63 Like, we all went to college and didn't know shit. I don't know.

Speaker 62 Did you feel that way at all, Yale? Did you feel like the

Speaker 72 ostracized for the elites about the fork usage?

Speaker 39 You know, I will say, I mean, not that I'm trying to be sympathetic to JD fans, but I will say, you know, I went to public schools my whole life um until i went to until until i went to yale law school and yeah i loved yale law school but you know there were a number of people there who'd you know gone to private school like from the time they were two not like five

Speaker 39 through like dalton harvard Yale law school. Like it was a much more natural thing for them.

Speaker 39 I mean, the thing about JD Vance is that the when he was at Yale Law School, you know, this is what everyone says, you you know, he was Tim Miller, like he was David Frum.

Speaker 39 He was, you know, he was like positioning himself as an intellectual, moderate Republican who didn't like Obama at the edges and thought he was like, you know, had gone off, but there was like a reasonable middle in the country.

Speaker 39 And he was like, for a strong national defense, like strong, you know, I mean, none of the

Speaker 39 gay friends, like, he's, you know, like his wife is Usha. Usha.
Like, none of the hard right hate your

Speaker 39 kill your enemies. Like, liberals are the monsters.
I just want to eat them for breakfast. It was all like, can't we just get along in a slightly more moderate direction?

Speaker 39 So, you know, I personally, and it wasn't like he came to Yale Law School at like 19. You know, he had fully formed views by then.
So, like, you know, I think that's a good thing.

Speaker 50 You're saying you also felt a little socially isolated from the prep school dorks, but it didn't turn you into a fascist.

Speaker 46 So that's.

Speaker 39 Yeah, I mean, I will say, let me tell a story. So like one of my first dinners, I did go to a dinner where I turned to somebody and I was like, oh, where do you come from?

Speaker 39 And this guy turns to me and was like.

Speaker 39 When I was like, where do you come from? He decided to give me his like private school lineage.

Speaker 39 And so it literally turned to, it says, like, I went to Dalton, then I went to Choate, then I went to Harvard, and now I'm at Law School.

Speaker 39 And I said, I remember, I said back to him, I was like, I went to public school my whole life, and we're in the same place.

Speaker 47 Yeah.

Speaker 28 You're like, I wanted to know if you were like from Kansas City.

Speaker 46 I know, exactly.

Speaker 39 I was like, what's what kind of state are you from? And he's like, giving me his whole thing. And I was like,

Speaker 48 I'm stateless. I'm just, I just went from, I just went from prep school to boarding school to prep school.

Speaker 39 You know, that's a little bit of the global elite, right there, I have to say.

Speaker 39 Anyway, I mean, he's a lovely person, but I was, I, I definitely was like, my education cost a lot less than yours, and we were in the same place. So I took it as a point of pride.

Speaker 39 I didn't actually take it as like, you know, I didn't take offense at it.

Speaker 39 I actually was like, wow, it makes me pretty cool because I didn't have all those advantages and I've shown up in the same place. But I also don't hate everybody.

Speaker 45 Yeah, right.

Speaker 96 It's a key difference. Another key difference.
Thank you so much for being in the fight. I love your tenacity.
We'll be doing this again in a couple of months. How's that sound?

Speaker 39 That's great. Always fun, my friend.

Speaker 96 All right, we'll see you soon, girl. Everybody else, we'll see you back here tomorrow for another edition of the Bulwark podcast.
Peace.

Speaker 96 Can you catch these fists?

Speaker 96 Level up.

Speaker 96 I know all too well just what you're like.

Speaker 96 I don't want your love, I just wanna fight.

Speaker 96 On my way to the club.

Speaker 96 Stupid is,

Speaker 96 stupid does.

Speaker 96 Lazine,

Speaker 96 Rackin' up

Speaker 96 Cat on me

Speaker 96 Giddy Up

Speaker 96 Yeah,

Speaker 96 yeah,

Speaker 96 yeah, yeah,

Speaker 96 yeah

Speaker 96 Man down

Speaker 96 Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 96 yeah, yeah,

Speaker 96 yeah,

Speaker 96 yeah

Speaker 96 Level up

Speaker 96 I know all too well just what you're like

Speaker 96 He don't get pissy, get the boot. I saw him sipping and dark fruit.
This always happens late at night. Some guy comes up, says I'm a stype.

Speaker 96 I just threw up in my mouth when it just tried to ask me out. Yeah, don't approach me.
I just wanna dance with my friends.

Speaker 96 Yeah,

Speaker 96 yeah,

Speaker 96 yeah.

Speaker 96 And Let me down.

Speaker 96 Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 96 yeah,

Speaker 96 yeah, yeah.

Speaker 96 Well,

Speaker 10 The Bulwark podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

Speaker 66 She'd throw things, wander, and started hoarding.

Speaker 97 Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard. But then we found out she had something called agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease.
And that was a different kind of difficult.

Speaker 97 So we asked her doctor for more help.

Speaker 40 Seeing symptoms like these in a loved one, it could be time to ask their doctor about Rexulti, Rexpiprazole 2 milligrams, the only FDA-approved treatment proven to reduce the symptoms of this condition.

Speaker 40 Rexulte should not be used as an as-needed treatment.

Speaker 40 Elderly people with dementia-related psychosis have increased risk of death or stroke, report fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, which can be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent.

Speaker 40 High blood sugar can lead to coma or death. Weight gain, increased cholesterol, unusual urges, dizziness on standing, falls, seizures, trouble swallowing, or sleepiness may occur.

Speaker 40 Learn more about these and other side effects at Rexulte.com. Tab ad for PI.

Speaker 97 I'm glad her doctor recommended Rexulte.

Speaker 40 Talk to your loved ones, doctor. Moments matter.

Speaker 98 Master distiller Jimmy Russell knew Wild Turkey Bourbon got it right the first time. So for over 70 years, he hasn't changed a damn thing.

Speaker 98 Our pre-Prohibition style bourbons are aged longer and never watered down. So you know it's right too.

Speaker 98 For whatever you do with it, Wild Turkey 101 Bourbon makes an old fashioned a bold fashion for bold nights out or at home.

Speaker 99 Toyota's all-in, all-season, with another year of Toyota Game Day giveaways.

Speaker 99 The official automotive partner of the NFL is giving fans the chance to win epic prizes like Brock Purdy's favorite Toyota Sequoia, NFL Shop Gear, and more.

Speaker 99 Play for free by predicting which big plays will happen during the second half of every Sunday night football game. This is going to be fun.
Visit toyota.com/slash NFL now to learn more.

Speaker 99 Toyota, let's go places.

Speaker 33 No purchase necessary, void where prohibited.

Speaker 99 Ends on 2826. Open to legal residents of the 50 United States and DC 18 and over.
For complete details, how to enter prizes and official rules, visit Toyotasgame Day Giveaways.com.

Neera Tanden: Aiding and Abetting Trump

Press play and read along

Transcript

More episodes from The Bulwark Podcast

Tommy Vietor: The 'Peace' President

Sam Stein: We Got Ourselves a Mad King

Jonathan Lemire: A Bubble-Wrapped Trump

Olivia Nuzzi Breaks Her Silence

Project 2025 Is Coming Back To Bite Trump