Michael Steele: Gum Up the Works

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Speaker 2 Hello, and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller.
I'm delighted to be here with the former chair of the Republican National Committee.

Speaker 2 He's host of the Michael Steele podcast, distributed right here out by the Woolworth. He's co-host of The Weekend on MSNBC.
He was Lieutenant Governor of Maryland. It's Michael Steele.

Speaker 2 How you doing, Chairman? I'm good, baby boy. How you doing, man?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I mean, time is a flat circle. It's either on Monday's show or Tuesday's show, I was like, this has been the longest three weeks of my life.
And then I was like, wait a minute.

Speaker 2 It's only been two weeks, actually. So,

Speaker 2 you know, I'm here. I'm alive.
And that's about all we can ask for right now, right? How are you doing? It sucks real hard right now.

Speaker 2 I'm at a point where I'm frustrated and angry at the same time with the way storylines have played out with no response.

Speaker 2 And it is galling and mind-numbingly stupid to me that we see the arrogance and disregard of this administration,

Speaker 2 the leveling up of

Speaker 2 the menagerie of misfits to be secretaries of fill-in-the-blank and directors of national intelligence.

Speaker 2 And there doesn't seem to be a counter narrative, let alone counter-efforts, to expose

Speaker 2 this bullshit for what it is. And it's frustrating because I feel like, you know, folks like you, myself, and others are out here

Speaker 2 clang the bell, the warning bell, saying, guys, don't do this. Trust me, it's not the price of eggs.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I hear you, but it's not the price of eggs. That's the least of your problems.
And here we are now, and then seeing people all of a sudden now,

Speaker 2 do I have a job how can he do this where does he get the

Speaker 2 bitch please we told you we told you this shit was coming we told we told you what project 2025 was so for me right now tim it's just i'm very frustrated with the way the story in in the last

Speaker 2 18 or so days has kind of unfolded and the reaction to it more than anything else. All right.
Well, I was going to get into that at the end, but let's just do this right off the top.

Speaker 2 We'll get to the news next. You know, because you had a kind of a viral little exchange with our friend Joe Scarborough a couple, a couple weeks ago.
I don't want to be rude. Like, I understand

Speaker 2 the instinct of some folks, right? And the post after, well, you and I weren't shocked, but after the shock that some people went through of Trump winning, right? That to be like, we need to reassess.

Speaker 2 Like, maybe what we were doing before wasn't right, right? Like, maybe there needs to be more accommodation, right? Like it's not that I don't get that instinct. Like I get it.

Speaker 2 I just think that it's wrong. Right.
And it fundamentally misunderstands why Trump won and why Democrats failed. And

Speaker 2 I think that the moment right now, which I think people are coming around to once they are seeing the reality of all this, is calling for going to the mattresses opposition, doing everything possible to try to, you know, put gunk in the spokes of their tires, right?

Speaker 2 To do anything to slow these guys down and create a narrative about how this is going to be a disastrous failed presidency that needed to be avoided, right?

Speaker 2 And like that is the only actually job for people that are opposed to Trump, whether you're on the left or the pro-democracy right or whatever. Like, that's the job in my view.

Speaker 2 And not everybody's come around to that yet. I guess you and Joe had a little disagreement on that point.
Yeah, look,

Speaker 2 I'm all about grace and all of that stuff, but I know the thing that's in front of me. I know what it is.
It has exposed itself time and time again. It tells me over and over again what it is.

Speaker 2 There is no redemptive feature here. There is no, oh, gee, gosh, I'm sorry.
I should be that kind of president. as opposed to this kind of president that I am.

Speaker 2 I should actually not look to blow up the federal government, but as true conservatives have always argued, let's look at how we can make it function better and not overreach, right?

Speaker 2 And that's not what this has ever been about.

Speaker 2 It has never been about that. And there are a lot of people who know that

Speaker 2 now, knew that then.

Speaker 2 And for me, I just can't go down this merry lane that, oh, now let's just try to understand and be nice

Speaker 2 when that's not what this bitch is about.

Speaker 2 And as I said about Hakeem Jeffries, that's my boy. You know, I'll roll with Hakeem.
I appreciate his leadership.

Speaker 2 But I'm sorry, when you're handing over the gavel, you don't look at the thing in front of you that tried to overturn the last election and was in the back room fomenting insurrection and say, we're going to now lay down our swords and pick up our bipartisan plowshears.

Speaker 2 He's going to take that plowshear and shove it up your ass because that's what they're about.

Speaker 2 And I wish the hell people would get that shit in their head and understand this thing is not democracy. This thing is not democratic, small D.

Speaker 2 This thing is not the expression of what the founders wanted. In fact, this thing is what our founders warned us against.

Speaker 2 And I just, in this moment, am fed up with everybody's bullshit,

Speaker 2 excuse making, crybabying, wringing of their hands, and not understanding, use the damn system against them. I don't know why the hell Chuck Schumer is the minority leader in the Senate.

Speaker 2 He shouldn't be because he's gotten punked every which way from Sunday. by the Republicans.
You think you're going to get something different

Speaker 2 in this iteration? Jon Thune is not Mitch McConnell in many respects, but John Thune is going to do what?

Speaker 2 What John Thune wants to do

Speaker 2 or what Donald Trump wants him to do? Tim, I don't understand

Speaker 2 why folks continue to pretend that

Speaker 2 if I say it nicer, and if I go visit him, and if I plead or cajole or pretend with him that somehow Donald Trump is going to turn around and go, you know, I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 So let me let me play nice with you. Yeah, I think part of it is fear.
Some people are afraid, right?

Speaker 2 They figure if they do that of him, right, of him and what they could do. And they're like, okay, well,

Speaker 2 if I soften the edges of my attacks here, maybe they won't come after me. It's hard.
I'm not telling you, I'm just trying to explain their thinking, man. That's not me.
You're as confused as I am.

Speaker 2 All right. I think that's some of it.
I think some of it is that like Trump does back down every once in a while. So they're like, why not try to get mine on my one little thing?

Speaker 2 Those are all considerations. But I'm hoping the thing is changing.
There's one piece of evidence of this on your boy Hakeem.

Speaker 2 There were some initial rumblings in the start here that like the move was, okay, you know, hey, we're not going to bail them out, but if they want to come to us with a deal and it's like some border funding in California, and then, you know, we keep the government open, open.

Speaker 2 We raise the debt ceiling. Like, we'll be responsible stewards.
And we'll, you know, we'll get a few things. We'll get a few pounds of flesh out of them.

Speaker 2 Get a few, you know, little pieces of silver and we'll cut a deal. That's what the reporters were saying.
And I'm going, what in the fuck are you talking about? Like, what are you talking?

Speaker 2 Like, there's no deal. There's no deal.
Like, make them do it. Make them govern.
Like, there's no deal to be made.

Speaker 2 They're shutting down parts of the government illegally right now and blocking payments to Lutheran services. And you're like, I'm going to work with them on a border security plus fire relief deal?

Speaker 2 No, F that. And we're starting to see the tone change on that from the Democrats.

Speaker 2 News out this morning that the Cash Patel hearing is being delayed because of new information that's been coming out about the ways they're trying to weaponize the FBI.

Speaker 2 So maybe they're starting to get it a little bit, Michael. I don't know.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 You know, I live in the world, Tim. My political experience that I learned many years ago from the likes of Marion Berry and Joey Eldell and others here growing up in Washington, D.C.
is

Speaker 2 words are meaningless.

Speaker 2 It's, dude, show me what you got. Show me what you got.

Speaker 2 You know, because I can tell you anything, but if I'm going to, you know, smack you side the head after the conversation, that tells me everything.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 So I hear the, you know, maybe we can do this or do that.

Speaker 2 Just do it.

Speaker 2 Don't telegraph it. Don't talk about it.
Just do it. Look, Tim, this is where I come from.

Speaker 2 For 18 months, Joe Manchin tied up the Biden administration over the filibuster and a whole host of other bullshit. Wouldn't let this bill go through, held up that.

Speaker 2 Tommy Tubberville, perhaps the dumbest member of the United States Senate, held up over 200 DOD appointments, generals, people we needed out in the field for how long?

Speaker 2 By himself.

Speaker 2 By himself.

Speaker 2 And we got Democrats sitting here trying to figure out, oh, oh, gee, I don't know what we can do to stop Cash Patel or Tulsi Gabbard's appointment. Yes, you do.

Speaker 2 So don't talk to me about how bad it is. We know how bad it is.
Damn it, do something.

Speaker 2 Even if you slow the roll at the end, outcome is, yes, they get through. At least you slow the roll of the process and you let them, put down the marker that this appointment is an abomination.

Speaker 2 It is bad for the country. We know what Cash Patel is going to do at the FBI.
Why do we know that? Because he told us, not once, but over a 10-year period.

Speaker 2 I mean, Trump is the king of delay. It was the same thing.

Speaker 2 I said it was the longest two weeks ever, but there's only 102 weeks left till the they could actually take over the speakership and get some power. And folks, he's not counting.
He's not counting.

Speaker 2 But I just, I'm just saying that Cash Patel can do a lot less damage in 96 weeks than he can do in 101 weeks.

Speaker 2 You know, like, honestly, like that, like, it does take time to get, like, gum up the works. All right, there's a story related to this.
We got to get into all the Elon news.

Speaker 2 I could really turn this into an Elon podcast. Like, they're doing it.
I don't understand.

Speaker 2 The guy, like, he tweeted tweeted 200 times yesterday, he's running three companies and he's tearing apart the entire federal government. There's so many stories about him.

Speaker 2 It's taking over my entire outline. But I want to get to a couple of the stories, but there was one thing that you tweeted about that I think kind of frames this conversation here.
And that is this.

Speaker 2 There was a former NOAA official said this. The strategy here is, well, we're just going to do it and dare somebody to stop us.

Speaker 2 And by the time they stop us, we'll have destroyed destroyed it and that ike to me is the most succinct summation of all this elon stuff we're about to get into but uh but do you have any thoughts on on that bigger picture tim that is exactly what the play is it has always been the play

Speaker 2 they couldn't get it in gear in the last term They had four years to sit down and figure out what the mechanisms were.

Speaker 2 I participated in a number of efforts to sort of wargame their strategies during that time and what it potentially would look like. So I'm not surprised at this because

Speaker 2 along with a number of other folks, we looked at, okay, if Trump comes back, what does he do? And this is exactly what we figured he would do.

Speaker 2 The problem is that those other institutional responses from the United States Congress to individual agencies has not played out the way we thought they would, that there would be a more aggressive response to this fact.

Speaker 2 This fundamentally is the play.

Speaker 2 We're just going to do it. And I've said this over the years about Donald Trump.
It's something I learned about him for the first time I worked with him back in 2013.

Speaker 2 He will always, always do what he wants to do until you stop him. It's not complicated.
Yeah. Not complicated.
It's not. And the reason he does it, Tim, because he doesn't believe you can stop him.

Speaker 2 And so that's the arrogance that he brings to this. But that arrogance has got to be met with an equal arrogance, which is why I love the president of Mexico.

Speaker 2 Because she was like, all right, bitch, bring it on.

Speaker 2 You want to put tariffs on me? Cool. Because Donald Trump didn't think Canada and Mexico would respond the way they did.

Speaker 2 Because what did he say when he put out that executive order talking about the tariffs? I dare you.

Speaker 2 And they were like, okay.

Speaker 2 And to be honest, I think Canada kind of followed the lead of Mexico because she wasn't playing. She's been tough.

Speaker 2 She wasn't playing. So that's at the core of this is exactly that.
We're going to do it until you stop us. And by the time you get to stopping us, we will have already messed it up so badly.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I hate to like leave this on the federal workers, but in a lot of places,

Speaker 2 folks are going to need to stand up. That's what I said to Ann about on Tuesday.
But look, it's like there's this post article this morning.

Speaker 2 This time the resistance is unfolding in the courts rather than the streets. You have FBI agents suing over Trump's plan to target the agents that investigated the insurrection.

Speaker 2 You know, the unions have asked a judge to block the Doge efforts from accessing personal information. Our Friends of Protect Democracy and others are working on this.

Speaker 2 Again, it's a delay rather than a stop tactic. But like the combination of the courts, but like publicly speaking out is going to have to be what this comes to.

Speaker 2 And I do think that that comes with a little bit of fear for some people, but like giving tangible examples of damage being done. What are you afraid of if you're already losing your job? Yeah.

Speaker 2 The reality of it is lawsuits are not visuals. Right.
I can't see your lawsuit. I'm not in court.
I don't want to be in court.

Speaker 2 But when your ass is standing outside of the FBI building, or you've got federal workers who are protesting in local offices or, you trying to get into a building that they work in,

Speaker 2 physically involving themselves and trying to get the nation's attention on what's happening to them. That's an important visual.

Speaker 2 The next visual is going to come at a very, very profoundly personal level.

Speaker 2 When your ass tries to access government services that you need,

Speaker 2 Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Tennessee, Texas, et cetera. All you little red things.
We're seeing it in Virginia.

Speaker 2 There was already some shutting down of community health centers because they weren't getting paid.

Speaker 2 So, what are you going to do then?

Speaker 2 Because that's when it hits you, because you think, oh, shutting down the government, yes, just do it. Well, okay, who's going to process your Social Security payment?

Speaker 2 Who's going to process the case that you had trying to get services and help for your parents or for your family member? But that office is now shut down.

Speaker 2 What are you going to do? Who are you going to call? You're going to call that member of Congress who's sitting there going, yes, more, please? Or who are you going to call?

Speaker 2 So that becomes the next level of reality here. I agree with you 1,000%.

Speaker 2 You need to

Speaker 2 bring a certain physicality, meaning your physical presence, to this discussion. so that people can have a face or faces that they see that are fighting not for their own personal situation.

Speaker 2 That's part of it. But these are public servants.

Speaker 2 These are men and women who've been serving in these positions throughout every administration, not just Donald Trump's first term, but George Bush's, Bill Clinton's.

Speaker 2 You know, we have this sense that the government is

Speaker 2 laden with all of these

Speaker 2 left-wing ideologues who just want to

Speaker 2 be so woke that they do all this crazy stuff.

Speaker 2 No, that's not the case. The FBI is one of the most conservative organizations in government.
There are a few wokes in there.

Speaker 2 You're conservative. This is one thing I want to ask you about.
You're like, your little conservative pleasure centers.

Speaker 2 There's no part of the last 18 days that's tickled anything that you're like, all right, we do need to shut down. It was about time we shut down some of these agencies.
They were bloated.

Speaker 2 There's nothing in there for you. Nope.
You know why? Because the way you do that

Speaker 2 is by leveling up what evidence you have.

Speaker 2 When you go after USAID, then put the evidence out there and don't just cherry pick something out of a budget line that's part of a bigger budget. We can all do that.

Speaker 2 That's no reason to shut down an agency because they spend $30,000 of something you don't like out of a hundred million dollar budget. Okay.

Speaker 2 I'm very much of the mind, yes, and always argued about looking at how

Speaker 2 we make government more efficient and work better on behalf of people.

Speaker 2 For me, that's about response times to problems, wait times on phone calls, you know, duplicative efforts across agencies or within departments.

Speaker 2 That's not what Project 2025 is about. They don't give a shit about any of that.
They just want to eliminate agencies. Let's be clear about why, Tim.
They are doing all of this. You know why? Because

Speaker 2 next month

Speaker 2 and succeeding months, they've got to deal with re-upping of the massive Trump tax cuts. There's no money in the budget to do it.
Nope. So this is what this is about.

Speaker 2 They're cleaving these agencies to pay for this tax cut. Trust me on that.

Speaker 2 This is not about, oh, we want a more efficient government. We're going to shut down the Department of Education.
We're getting rid of USAID. We're going to streamline the FBI.

Speaker 2 All of those dollars have got to go somewhere.

Speaker 2 How do you perform the investigations that the FBI is currently involved in if you're shutting down half of the field offices? Who's doing that work? So the work goes away, the money is freed up.

Speaker 2 Where's that money going to go now? No, you're right.

Speaker 2 I mean, for some of these people, it's paying for the tax cut and that's going to be a big sticky wicket for them because that's a four or five trillion dollar price tag that there's no money for there for other these guys though is they're just this is kind of why i was interested in your answer because you're sort of talking around this point which is some of these guys aren't conservative they're arsonists right like there's a difference between wanting to have a leaner smaller more responsive government and wanting and wanting chaos and wanting to tear everything down because you want to take power for yourself, right?

Speaker 2 And both of those people live together in this administration, like the ones that are doing this because they want to pay for the tax cuts and the ones that are doing this because they want to see everything burn.

Speaker 2 So right. They both agree on

Speaker 2 blowing it up. Right.
But they think on the other side of that,

Speaker 2 the peace that they want is going to be what they get. And that's not where this,

Speaker 2 that's where the fight begins.

Speaker 2 I want to go back to the Elon Musk thing and just say this. The other mistake I think I agree with you about Elon Musk.

Speaker 2 There's so much there to say about this guy, this immigrant who's taking leave of the way he's in. He's a U.S.
citizen. Yeah, but he's still an immigrant, right?

Speaker 2 This got all of this power that he's been given. I think the strategy has to be, that's great, but Elon Musk is the bright shining object that is a distraction in some extent.

Speaker 2 Everything Elon Musk is doing has to be tied back to Donald Trump because this is the great setup. I give you Vivek Ramaswamy, right?

Speaker 2 When they started the OHB1 visa thing and that whole thing started to blow up, where's Vivek?

Speaker 2 Anybody, anybody seen the brown-skinned guy?

Speaker 2 What happened? I thought we were partners. I thought we were all in this together.
They dumped his ass so fast it make your head swim.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 Jettison. Uh-oh, this is a problem.

Speaker 2 Our white base is is upset, right? Let's blame it. Okay, Vivek.
And so Vivek's like, oh, okay, I'm going to go run for governor. Okay, baby, you go ahead and do that, boo.
The reality of it is

Speaker 2 you have these pieces that are in place doing what they're doing with the idea that Donald Trump at some point, should it all go sideways, goes,

Speaker 2 how did that happen? Right? Because he's done it before.

Speaker 2 And so Elon Musk, everything he's doing, yes, I hate it. And that's because Donald Trump told you to do it and put it back on Trump.

Speaker 2 Just don't leave it on Elon alone because, trust me, Republicans and Trump are going to scapegoat him like a dog when it goes south.

Speaker 2 And this is related to some of the things that I want to talk about. So just hear a couple of news items this morning.

Speaker 2 We got CBS Jen Jacobs, who is reporting that some federal employees say they found a program downloaded to their government computers that could be used to sift through their team chats to search for keywords, treasury computers included.

Speaker 2 Some staff told CBS they think Musk looking for signs of disloyalty.

Speaker 2 Washington Post, agents of Musk have gained access to highly restricted government records on millions of federal employees, including Treasury and State Department officials, as part of a broader effort to wrest control over the government's personnel agency.

Speaker 2 This is very alarming, scary stuff. But to your point, it is framed as a Musk operation, not a Trump operation.
And that is showing in the polls.

Speaker 2 The other item from this morning: Elon Musk approval, disapproved 49%, approved 39. Doge approval, disapproved, 46%, approved 41%.
So he's already less popular than Trump.

Speaker 2 He is already out there taking the arrows.

Speaker 2 And in these stories that are like straight out of 1984 dystopia, where it's like we're going to be spying on mid-level treasury officials whose job is just, you know, to ensure that payments get processed, to make sure they haven't said any wrong thoughts about Donald Trump before.

Speaker 2 Like, that's about Trump. Right.
And why the crap are we polling on an unelected guy? Who the hell cares? He's not an elected official. Why are we polling on Elon Musk? Right?

Speaker 2 And the reason is, is because that negative number, that minus 46% or whatever, would otherwise translate to Trump. Now, look, it's a bargain for exchange.

Speaker 2 Elon Musk is getting exactly what Elon Musk's once out of. He don't give a rat's ass if he's upside down in his popularity.
He's a billionaire. The richest man in the world.
What does he care? Right?

Speaker 2 He's got control over the contracting system of the federal government.

Speaker 2 The Doge isn't looking into his NASA contracts. The Doge is not going to recommend that

Speaker 2 the government streamline the excesses in those contracts because trust me, there's a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse in those contracts. But they're not going to carve that out.

Speaker 2 The man made $400 million

Speaker 2 on inauguration day, right?

Speaker 2 This is all about how he's going to make more money. The bargain for exchange is: I'll do what you need me to do.
I just want to be the world's first trillionaire.

Speaker 2 And all those other motherfuckers sitting behind Trump at that inauguration, they want a piece of that too.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 just need to be clear-eyed about what's happening in front of us. So when the whole thing collapses,

Speaker 2 we know why.

Speaker 2 And also, it's like, it might be Elon and his 23-year-old incels that are like executing this spy campaign and purge within the federal government, but like they're looking for people who are disloyal to Trump.

Speaker 2 Like that is, that is what this is about. Thank you.

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Speaker 2 On to another Trump thing, Gaza.

Speaker 2 You know, it's like sometimes like, what do you even fucking do with some of this shit? But Trump, Trump, it was the other night.

Speaker 2 Hey, folks, let me just say, when Tim starts muttering under his breath,

Speaker 2 it's not good. Trust me, it's not good.

Speaker 2 I know. Like, I was thinking about, do I need to, is it? It's 8.42 a.m.
I probably shouldn't be thinking about a cigarette quite yet.

Speaker 2 All right. So we have

Speaker 2 Trump gives the press conference with BB.

Speaker 2 He seemed to even take Beebe and Susie Wiles off guard based on their facial reactions about the degree of his plans for a casino on the Gaza Strip, the Riviera of the Middle East.

Speaker 2 Then we go through the same rigamarole. We always go through it.
Next day, you know, Mike Johnson's like, wow, you know, we got to see what the details are on this. I think he's being aspirational.

Speaker 2 Marco Rubio, oh,

Speaker 2 this is not part of the plan. You know, there's people in background talking to reporters like, like, well, you know, he was a little out of over his skis.
Trump sends out a bleat this morning.

Speaker 2 Don't know if you've seen this. The Gaza Strip would be turned over to the U.S.
by Israel at the conclusion of the fighting.

Speaker 2 The Palestinians, people like Chuck Schumer, would have already been resettled. The U.S.

Speaker 2 would slowly and carefully begin the construction of what would become one of the greatest and most spectacular developments of its kind on earth. Like, we're back to doing the same shit.

Speaker 2 Like, it's like the people around them are like, let me try to retcon what Trump said to make it seem normal.

Speaker 2 And Trump's like, nope, actually, I'm going to make racist jokes about the Palestinians and how somebody that I don't like is a Palestinian because that's a slur to me. And I'm dead serious.

Speaker 2 I want Trump hotel Gaza Strip. So it's all bullshit and it's

Speaker 2 typical Trump bullshit because it ain't happening. You know why it's not happening? Because the Saudis have already said it's not happening.

Speaker 2 And there's not a deal that's going to get cut in which Jordan is going to say, oh yeah, give us more Palestinians. All right.
It's just not happening. But Trump throws it out there.

Speaker 2 And he throws it out there in such a way that, you know, as you rightly noted, you look at the face of Bibi and Susie Wiles and go, did that shit just happen?

Speaker 2 Did he say, you know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of that moment when he did the presser

Speaker 2 in which he said, yeah, well, you can take the bleach and you can inject it in your system. And he looked over at what's her name? Deborah Burks.

Speaker 2 Deborah Burch. Dr.
Burks. And she's like putting her head down.
I know this motherfucker just said put bleach in your arm, right? That was that moment.

Speaker 2 That was the exact same scenario. Here's the deal.
Again, you get sucked into the rabbit hole talking about Gaza in the way that Trump wants to do Gaza.

Speaker 2 Folks, stop for a moment and say to yourself, how does that stabilize the Middle East?

Speaker 2 How does having Trump Casino on the Gaza Strip and making Gaza the Riviera of the Middle East, how does that stabilize the region? You think Hamas is going to just say, oh, a beach club.

Speaker 2 Shit, I can get a tan. What are the rules at that beach club going to be? Are the women? What's the women's dress rules going to be at the Trump beach club, Gaza Strip?

Speaker 2 I got the Burker that, you know, lets the sun.

Speaker 2 I got Burker. I don't know, man.

Speaker 2 So this is where maybe my instincts are wrong. And so I want you to tell me why this is wrong.
But

Speaker 2 part of me is like, always the smart people are like, don't take the Trump bait. You know, this is what he wants.
He wants to distract you. And part of me is kind of like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 All this bait works for him because this stuff trickles down and regular people see it. And regular people are like, that don't think about the stuff that deeply.

Speaker 2 They're like, Yeah, it would be cool if America, if we had America Riviera right there on the Gaza Strip. And maybe the answer is trolling back.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't know, if you're a good Democratic troll like Jared Moskowitz, like, maybe shouldn't he be filing a bill today saying,

Speaker 2 be it resolved?

Speaker 2 Like, the United States is planning on investing in a new casino and high-rise development in the Gaza Strip. And I want to budget, here's a $15 billion budget for it.

Speaker 2 And I would like my Republican colleagues to be my co-sponsor on this bill. Let's see it.
Who's going to build it? We're going to be sent contractors there. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Part of me is like, instead of don't take the bait, maybe bait him back.

Speaker 2 I don't know. Maybe that's a bad idea.
This is why I love Tim, and this is why Tim was a good comms guy when he was at the RNC. And this is why he's been a great comms guy since.

Speaker 2 It's because that's exactly what you do. That's exactly what you do.

Speaker 2 That's why I was just saying

Speaker 2 a little bit before about, you know, yeah, all right, in the Senate, play hardball.

Speaker 2 Put these guys in the box where they have to account for the bullshit that's coming out of this man's mouth.

Speaker 2 Yes, I would absolutely sponsor the bill and put it on the floor on the committee and say, okay, that's what he wants to do. I think that's a great idea.
I'm all about even naming it.

Speaker 2 Trump Hotel and Casino, Gaza. Let's do it.
We'll budget for it. And let's appropriate to get the feasibility studies and all that in place $250 million.
Let's just do that.

Speaker 2 And watch how fast it collapses. And let's take some of the MAGA Americans that suffered in the Biden economy.
And that's good work for them.

Speaker 2 There's construction work. That's real.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's real work. And then we'll, you know, all the other stuff like the relocation of 2 million people, the countries that won't take them,

Speaker 2 the terrorist organizations that won't go away. All of that shit will just dissipate once we start construction on the Trump Hotel and Casino, Gaza.
All right.

Speaker 2 I want to talk about an economic matter. I know that you saw this.

Speaker 2 Carolyn Levitt was asked. the other day about prices and I want to take a listen to that.

Speaker 2 How long will it take to cycle cycle through and get some of the actual prices that Americans are paying to come down?

Speaker 9 Prices at the store and at the grocery pump

Speaker 9 across the board, sure. Well, the president is doing everything he can, obviously, to reduce the cost of living crisis in this country as quickly as possible.

Speaker 9 That's why he signed a litany of executive orders across the board in the first couple of weeks. Here, he declared a national energy emergency.

Speaker 9 He committed to cutting 10 regulations for every new one on the book.

Speaker 9 As you know, working for a Fox business-related outlet, deregulation and energy independence are huge drivers of reducing inflation in this country.

Speaker 2 I love that little, as you know, Fox business. Shouldn't you be on our side on this one? That question was a little hard.
Right.

Speaker 2 So I listened to that.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, Candy Girl here is just, she's just so, she's so,

Speaker 2 just so sweet and yummy to listen to. So delicious.
So I responded back, but on day one,

Speaker 2 Trump told us quote I want on groceries very simple word groceries we're going to bring those prices way down

Speaker 2 end quote

Speaker 2 Trump I want my prices at the grocery pump to go down now

Speaker 2 I can't afford

Speaker 2 grocery pump right

Speaker 2 what the fuck is a grocery anyway at the grocery pump i want i can't afford the eggs i need to put into my tank

Speaker 2 because that's what you do Okay, so this is what you're telling me.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 look, folks, Trump has already told us he doesn't know how he's bringing grocery prices down because he can't. It's too hard.

Speaker 2 He's now admitted that, but we knew that. You knew that back in November.
You knew exactly what you were doing with your vote.

Speaker 2 And the layup about, oh my God, the price of eggs, you knew it was bullshit then. And it still is.
Because if you don't know anything about your own personal market, you know that

Speaker 2 you adjust. You did.
You know how I know you adjusted? Because a lot of y'all asses went on a very nice long vacation during the summer.

Speaker 2 In the midst of all of the so-called high prices, you took a break and you packed up those eggs. and you went with your family someplace nice and that's okay.

Speaker 2 And I just think now all of this doublespeak bullshit coming out of this White House about, oh, well, we, you know, we're cutting this and we did that. There's no plan here.

Speaker 2 There never has been because there are things that are affecting the price of eggs that have nothing to do with Joe Biden or Donald Trump. This little thing called bird flu.

Speaker 2 A little thing where you got to put down 2 million chickens. Luckily, we'll have RFK Jr.
in charge of managing. Yeah, well, I feel much better now.

Speaker 2 I mean, obviously, you weren't surprised, but like, man,

Speaker 2 it is really something that RFK and Tulsi are just going down party line votes. Like, it's really something.

Speaker 2 You know, Michael, like, if we flung, if we had a little time machine, if we got to our little DeLorean and went back to October and got around the table with Todd Young and Susan Collins, Tom Tillis, and we're like, Trump is going to win.

Speaker 2 And he's going to make a Fox host the head of the military, RFK the head of HHS, and Tulsi, the head of the National Intelligence Services. And y'all are going to go on along with all of it.

Speaker 2 I think that these guys would have told us that we had TDS, right? I think they would have been like, no, no, oh, come on, like, come on.

Speaker 2 Either he wouldn't do all of that, or I would oppose some of it, or, you know, and like, here we are. It's like such a dog bites mana story at this point.

Speaker 2 Like, I almost get bored mentioning it on the podcast. So, you know what it reminds me of?

Speaker 2 It reminds me of that moment where Jesus looks at Peter and he goes, dude, before the cock goes two times, you're going to deny my ass. And he was like, oh, hell no.
I will die for you.

Speaker 2 What are you talking about? Right?

Speaker 2 Next thing you know, hey, Peter, you were with him. Nah, I don't even know who he is.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 That's these Republicans. If you go back in time and you told them this is what you would do, oh no, there's no way in hell.
But we know now their nature. We know now who they are.

Speaker 2 They have been exposed for what they are. And just as Christ knew the nature of Peter in that moment, we know their nature.
And so I'm not surprised. I said weeks ago that all of these,

Speaker 2 after the whole thing with our boy from Florida went down, once they got him off the docket,

Speaker 2 It was clear sailing. They weren't sacrificing anybody else.
This is my frustration with Democrats. I still think Gates would have got through too, by the way.

Speaker 2 You know what, Tim? I'm going to agree with you.

Speaker 2 Here's what he said to me. He said, he said to me, I saw him at that turning point USA thing I go to every year.

Speaker 2 In the lobby of the hotel, you know, I said, Matt, number one, you made me look like a bad pundit because I said you were getting through. And then you bailed like a little wuss.

Speaker 2 And he laughed at that. And then we started talking for a little bit and he starts doing his fake talk and whatever.
But I was like, but really, like, really,

Speaker 2 why didn't you push it?

Speaker 2 And he says to me, he goes, Tim, John Curtis from Utah, the senator that's replaced Romney, he told me privately that it was something like he'd sacrifice his children before he voted to make me the attorney general.

Speaker 2 And we're sitting right here two months later, February 6th. I'm like, I would put my mortgage on John Curtis voting to confirm Matt Gates.
Where is John Curtis? John Curtis is nowhere.

Speaker 2 He hadn't done anything in any of these hearings.

Speaker 2 All these guys are tough as nails in their office. You know, tough talk.
But when push comes to shove, they all were going to fold. The gates could have gotten through.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I totally agree with that. I thought that the weakest of all of them was Tulsi Gabbard because she cut the closest to the things that Republicans seemingly still care the most about.

Speaker 2 And that is the whole national security piece. So her narrative in that space was bad for a lot of them.

Speaker 2 But Donald Trump has already told them, well, if you don't go with her, I'm going to primary you.

Speaker 2 And once you tell them that, they're like, oh, shit, no, I can't afford to be primary because this is the most important thing I've ever done in my life. And

Speaker 2 I cannot give this up because it's all about me. F the country.
I don't give a shit about the country. She can tell Putin whatever she wants as long as I get re-elected and don't have a primary.

Speaker 2 That's what this crew is about. That's what their leadership is.
It is pathetically sad the level of pussydum that they have created. We can say that again.
That's a pussy dumb.

Speaker 2 That's a word we can say again now in 2025. It was banned.
I don't know if you knew this, but it was banned during the woke Biden era. You weren't allowed to say that.
Well, we can say it again.

Speaker 2 We're in a whole different space now.

Speaker 2 Yeah, different words are banned now. Justice.
You can't say justice.

Speaker 2 No, you can't.

Speaker 2 You can't say justice. You can't say equality.

Speaker 2 Different words are banned. And God knows if you say DEI, that's like saying the N-word.
So just be careful.

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Speaker 2 You were the chairman of a committee. You won some elections back then, in that midterm.
Democrats just elected a new chairman, Ken Martin. I don't know Ken Martin, so he could prove me wrong.

Speaker 2 I've never met Ken Martin. All I know is what I watched during the DNC chairs race, and it felt very milquetoast to me.
It felt very limp. And so I hope to be proven wrong on that.

Speaker 2 But I'm wondering if you, you know, if somebody sends Ken Martin this little, little, uh, this little video clip here, I'm wondering what your advice would be to him.

Speaker 2 We had Ken Martin on our show the week before the election. The presidential election or the chair's election? The chair's election, so two weeks ago.
And I thought Chairman Wickler out of Wisconsin

Speaker 2 would be a better fit for this moment because

Speaker 2 This moment aligns a lot like it did for me in 2009 after the loss in 06 and 08. A really bad brand for the party.
You have a very popular president sitting down on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Speaker 2 They have the House, the Senate. So then how do you now figure out the strategy to begin to claw back the narrative? My hope is that

Speaker 2 he brings, he's the chairman of Minnesota, the Minnesota Party, and apparently

Speaker 2 is a good tactician in that regard and in that space. He's going to need that, I think, to put in place some tacticals.

Speaker 2 If he levels up a 50-state strategy, if he starts with branding and messaging at the grassroots, and his first test case will be two states that are going to be important this November, Virginia and New Jersey, especially Virginia, which is going to have a very, I think, interesting and hotly contested race for governor between Spamberger and Winsom, Lieutenant Governor Winsom.

Speaker 2 So you're going to have an opportunity to see how your messaging plays in Northern Virginia, which went slightly red in the last election, and how you can then translate that more broadly across the country.

Speaker 2 This is not just about, oh, you know, raising a lot of money, and that's important.

Speaker 2 Your problem isn't money. Your problem is message and the fact that people don't think you're credible.
And so that's going to be an important first test how you begin to claw back credibility.

Speaker 2 To be honest, you're not being helped by your members in the House and Senate.

Speaker 2 So I'm just letting you know. It's early.
It's early. Okay.
One other thing, just I want to end with some feelings. I was with you.

Speaker 2 I think it was like two or three weeks before the election. I forget what the reason was, but I was up in New York.
And it was before the light of the red light had gone on.

Speaker 2 We were sitting around the tables, you and Simone and me. And I was like, guys, I think we're losing.
I was like, I think that we're losing, right? And what do you think?

Speaker 2 And some other people around the table were like, I don't know. And it's close.
And the two of you are like, we're losing. Like, it's looking bad.

Speaker 2 And I didn't get a chance to ask you then, like, what were you seeing that made you feel that way? Like, what were you seeing that made you feel that the country

Speaker 2 was going a direction where they were coming to terms, not only coming to terms with Trump, but affirming him? They didn't have a reason to vote for kamala

Speaker 2 they really didn't i mean outside of you know certain narratives that there was nothing that that gravitationally pulled the american people away from and it goes back to the joke you know we've been talking about the price of eggs and all that but look if voters find a reason to stay in a space

Speaker 2 And you know, it's not a real space, it's not a legitimate space, that there are other things that they need to take into consideration and to move them.

Speaker 2 If you don't create that conversation, if you don't give them that appreciation that, yes, it is the thing that you're holding on to, the price of eggs, whatever, but these are other things that you need to contextualize,

Speaker 2 they're going to stay where they are. And when you talk to voters afterwards, they pretty much told you, I didn't have a reason to move.
And so throughout that campaign, the question is,

Speaker 2 how do you move the narrative with voters? That's always been the problem for this administration, going back to the very beginning. The last administration.
The Biden administration, yes, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 Was going back to the very beginning. That's why I alluded to Joe Manchin and his tying people up in knots for 18 months over something like the filibuster.

Speaker 2 And the American people are going, who's Phil? Who's Buster? And what did they do? Why is everybody so mad at them? Right?

Speaker 2 Not understanding what the fight was about.

Speaker 2 And the Democrats are fighting over process.

Speaker 2 Donald Trump is out here just slinging and winging and saying, that's your problem. They're focused on process.

Speaker 2 I'm just going to go in and blow it all up. And so when people become frustrated with the process, the idea of blowing it all up is really appealing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And no one ever corrected for that.

Speaker 2 And so, yeah, when you got, when you're sitting there looking at the numbers, they were telling you one thing, but voters were saying something else on the ground, just as they did in 2016.

Speaker 2 And I just felt that, you know,

Speaker 2 all the efforts that

Speaker 2 folks like you and me in working with Democrats in the democracy space, they still didn't get what the fight was about. Well, we got four more years of fighting.

Speaker 2 People get it eventually.

Speaker 2 People start getting part walked out to investigation.

Speaker 2 People feel it real good okay hold on yes i was supposed to be laughing that was too sad i want to play you one clip we're going to end with this clip we got a big football game on sunday and our president who's very mentally sharp was talking about the game i want to listen to that

Speaker 10 you know uh his quarterback was named mahomes he was a great college coach and i said how good was he said you don't want to know how good he made me into a great coach He's

Speaker 10 pretty good quarterback, right?

Speaker 2 So Donald Trump talking about Tommy Tuberville one little problem with that though you know what the problem is chairman steele are a big college football fan no I'm not a big one little problem one little problem Tommy Tuberville didn't coach Patrick Mahomes ever

Speaker 2 that's what I was thinking I don't know college football but I think I knew that I was like he just made it up he just like made up some story about Tommy Tuberville the dumbest senator

Speaker 2 bringing uh you know doing patrick homes

Speaker 2 anyway it's you know they're not all fire it's not It's not all, they're not fire on all cylinders there. I don't think.
They're not. And people think that's endearing.

Speaker 2 They just think, oh, well, that's just Trump being Trump. Well, you know,

Speaker 2 I guess the town idiot is just the town idiot. And you just, everybody just rolls by and throws it.
It's nice if we

Speaker 2 get to just make stuff up.

Speaker 2 You can't wait to hear what I'm going to be telling about the boys that I kissed back in the day.

Speaker 2 I'm going to be naming some big names, you know?

Speaker 2 I'm just going to be

Speaker 2 like, oh, man, it was, I did it. Just like Tommy Tuberville coached Patrick Mahomes, you know, I kissed Zach Efron.
Same thing. I had to coach him a little tongue action.
Yeah, me and Little Nasach.

Speaker 2 I was coaching him on that. Anyway, Michael Steele, I'm so happy you're in our little family here.
Thanks for taking all the time today. Nah, man, it's my pleasure, brother.
Always.

Speaker 2 We got much to talk about. All right, that's the chairman.
We'll be back tomorrow with somebody a little more liberal than the chairman.

Speaker 2 He'll take us through the weekend. See y'all back,

Speaker 2 ay, cover X, ayy. Couple Grammys on your couple plex, ayy.
That's a fact, ay, throw it back, ay, throw it back, ay.

Speaker 2 And this one is for the champions.

Speaker 2 Ain't lost since I began ya.

Speaker 2 Funny how you said it wasn't, yeah, yo.

Speaker 2 Then I went in again, yo.

Speaker 2 I told you long ago, on the road. I got what they waiting for.

Speaker 2 All run from nothing, dog. Get your soul.
Just tell them they ain't laying low.

Speaker 2 You was never really rooting for me anyway.

Speaker 2 When I'm back up at the top, I wanna hear you say.

Speaker 2 Yeah, run from nothing, dog. Get your soul.
Just tell them that the break is over.

Speaker 2 Need a need to um

Speaker 2 need a couple number ones. Need a plaque on every song.
Need me like one with Nickina. Tell her I know I'm gonna see it, huh? I'm a potter like a night beaver, huh.
On for a pity, some queer, huh?

Speaker 2 But then baby, bitch, love me deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ayy, ole do it.

Speaker 2 Ain't fall off out, just ain't released my new cheek.

Speaker 2 I blew up and everybody trying to sue me.

Speaker 2 You call me nause, but your hood calmly do.

Speaker 2 And this one is for the champion.

Speaker 2 Ain't lost since I began ya.

Speaker 2 Funny how you said it was the air up.

Speaker 2 Then I went in and I

Speaker 2 I told you long ago, no road. I got what they waiting for.

Speaker 2 Oh, run from nothing, dog, get your soul. Just tell them they ain't layin' low.

Speaker 2 You was never really rootin' for me anyway.

Speaker 2 When I'm back up at the top, I wanna hear you say.

Speaker 2 You run from nothing, dog, get your soul. Just tell them that the break is over.

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Speaker 2 This is Matt Rogers from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturalistos with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
Hey, Bowen, it's gift season.

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