Peter Hamby: Living the Racist Porn Message Board Life

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Hello and welcome to the ballard podcast i'm your host tim miller i couldn't be happier to be here today with the host of good luck america on snapchat founding partner at puck host of the powers that be podcast which comes out every day but don't listen to it before you listen to mine he's a teen heartthrob mostly for awkward for awkward teenage boys, and he's a porn message board culture analyst, so he's perfect for today's show. Peter Hamby.
Hey, Peter. Hey, better than tiger droppings, right? Barely.
Barely. He's also one of my besties.
I guess I should have said that. Peter, I just, you know, I needed somebody to just chop shop with on Mark Robinson today.
It's quite the story. For anybody that's been in a hole, the Republican nominee for governor in North Carolina was revealed via CNN's K-File to be a very frequent messenger on a porn website, Nude Africa.
On the site, he said, among other things, I'm a black Nazi. I'd take Hitler over any of the shit that's in washington right now slavery is not bad some people need to be slaves i would certainly buy a few martin luther king get that commie bastard off the national mall he said that a woman who complained about being sexually assaulted by a taxi driver the moral of the story is don't f a white bitch the sienna didn't even include some other good ones he some peeing stuff you know some stuff about sleeping with his wife's sister some other gross stuff that's even too gross for this podcast dude was in it I guess is the big thing here he was like living the racist porn message board life at like a very high level if you're like have that paper trail on the porn message boards it's not like you're checking in once a day like you know you open the yahoo sports app and you see if the reds won last night you are spending a lot of time on that website and others you're thinking a lot about it by the way this brings up a good point not that his opponent would bring this up, but if you're thinking that much about porn and it's occupying that much headspace, sir, how much time are you going to be spending as governor of the great state of North Carolina thinking about this stuff? Or are you going to be thinking about bringing textile jobs back to the triad? You know, it's a good hit.
No, he's going to be thinking about transsexual sex, which he's very into, according to many posts about that, despite, obviously... And Doc Rivers.
Poor Doc catching strays. I mean, Doc is one difference, one key difference between Doc and Mark Robinson, among many, is that he's not going around calling trans people and gays filth.
He's not going around talking about how he wants to keep trans people out of women's bathrooms. That's an interesting law that he's proposing, the bathroom law, considering one of the other things that he discusses on the porn message board is how he liked to be a peeper.
He liked to climb on ladders and peep into ladies' bathrooms. Oh, I miss that.
There's a lot of material to sort through, Peter, and I wouldn't have expected you to read every piss porn post that he posted. The other thing I think I'd like to layer in here is in addition to logging hours on the Nude Africa message board, he also was a nightly visitor to the porn shop the physical porn store yeah the video store where you go into the back room and and according to reports he'd bring a pizza into the back room where you do this further it's just like i mean how did this guy have time to like make a living he went bankrupt several times also like how i kind of this time to you know go to the bank go to the grocery store you know i mean this dude was logging huge hours on message boards in person porn stores i mean hey like whatever floats your boat is fine with me but just like as a practical matter this seems inefficient this is something that'll send

a throw up the leg of bulwark listeners the maga grift has brought into the political class a bunch of people who you know prior to donald trump were just like people who either lived on the fringes of society or fringes of the economy who were weird, lonely, had a lot of time on their hands, found a, you know, you would call it a cult, found, you know, something to hold on to. And there are plenty of people who are Republicans in the Trump era who have- I think Mark was holding on to something.
It sure is. You know, there are plenty of people in maga republican politics who had nice careers as entrepreneurs and businessmen and lawyers and doctors or whatever before becoming politicians in whatever level of government there are also plenty of people who were just like didn't have anything to do you know and they are just kind of clowns you know and he seems like an emblem of that can we tie this to the campaign though like i think mark robinson was already on track to lose republicans i talked to rga adjacent consultant types yesterday like they already thought this race was kind of gone for him all the things you mentioned the peeping and the the piss porn first time saying that on a content activation the black nazi yeah don't forget the black nazi martin lucifer coon you know there's just there's a lot there okay great so here's here's when you think about north carolina and maybe you're thinking about kamala harris in november and how these two races are correlated obviously barack obama won north carolina8 when you were on the McCain train he had spent considerable resources there organizing college campuses and black communities in the primaries and they continued to target it as a swing state and they ended up winning that state kind of a surprise but a good w for Obama since then hasn't been a battleground 2012 was the last time it was a real battleground with a lot of resources invested there people forget in 2022 there was a black female at the top of the senate race ticket there for democrat sherry beasley lost by three points i think that's the richard bursey the problem for dems is they haven't been able to maximize turnout in sort of more rural, out of the way black corners of the state.
The whites there, it's a great genre of whites. College educated whites.
For Democrats. College educated white folks in the Research Triangle outside Charlotte over in Buncombe County, which is Asheville.
Those folks are going to vote for Kamala. And we were texting about this Saturday.
Like, you think about south like north carolina is a little different than georgia like north carolina is a little more mid-atlantic uh you know just a different kind of white less of an sec dad a little more progressive more willing to vote for kamala harris democrats need to maximize black turnout and then get all those white folks out and and then a bunch of students. So maybe the black Nazi stuff, maybe the pro-slavery stuff, you can bundle that into messaging and radio, mail, door knocks, whatever, TV, digital.
I don't know how you reach voters these days, but I think it's pretty helpful. Like if you're in the coordinated campaign in North Carolina for both campaigns.
You've made two trenchant points there. One about this election, one about the state of the party.
Let's just, I want to start on this election first. I'm sure everyone's heard this clip, but it's worth just listening to one more time in the context of just having heard what Mark Robinson was posting on these message boards.
Let's hear Donald Trump talking about Mark Robinson recently. This is Martin Luther King on steroids.
Okay. Now, I told that, I told that, I told that to Mark.
I said, I think you're better than Martin Luther King. I think you are Martin Luther King times two.
And he looked at me and I wasn't sure, was he angry because that's a terrible thing to, or was he complimented? I have never figured it out, but I'm telling you, he's one of, right? When I said that to you, you looked like, I don't know if I like that comment. You should like it.
You should like it, Mark, but you don't because you think Martin Luther King is a commie bastard and Lucifer, and we should take down his monuments Donald Trump was onto something there, Peter. He was onto something.
He was like, I'm sensing you aren't taking this as a compliment. I'm comparing you to the only good black person I can think of in my brain if I'm Donald Trump, and that's Martin Luther King.
I can't think of any others to compare you to. And so I'm comparing you to him, and you don't seem happy.
I'm sure you can think of Don King. Don King would be the other king that Donald Trump thinks about.
Trump's like, Muhammad, the late, great Muhammad Ali. And you're like, them combined.
And he's like, it's kind of strange that Mark Robinson doesn't seem to be taking this as a compliment. I think we know why now.
But, you know, some of that stuff's going to look ugly in the ads. And just that whole combo of, you know, what the Democrats need, what you're talking about, depressing turnout among Republicans, exciting the black voters within North Carolina, bringing over the suburban ACC dads.
Like this seems to help on all three counts, right? Yeah. The depressing, the white turnout, maybe not, maybe not, you know, maybe it does.
So that's the other thing. So one reason North Carolina is hard for Democrats is you do have – maybe there's some bulwark listening Charlotte dads out there who – Definitely are.
Yeah. Sorry.
There definitely are. What's up, Charlotte? If you're listening to Bulwark and you live in Charlotte and you work in finance – sorry, you're not voting for Donald Trump.
But the Jesse Helms whites, like the folks out in like the coastal plain, out in the hollers where my family is descended from, you know, those folks, they turn out for Donald Trump. They're not going to hear like kind of, I wish I owned slaves and I've bankrupted three times.
I don't think they care. Yeah, there's nothing.
Hitler's better than ever in America. They're still like, dude, I want this guy to run North Carolina.
What? I mean mean like he's a total mess in his personal life i don't think he spends all of his life watching porn or going to porn stores and he's done nothing but he should be in charge of the state yeah sure yeah yeah i think that that's a down down the line or check the box if donald trump is at the top of the ticket that's my only take i'm just making clear i agree with you but i just you know like this is all new and fresh so we're just trying to state it clearly they just don't care about it like they wouldn't put this guy in charge of their local arby's they might feel like probably we could probably we could find somebody better yeah we could probably find a better candidate well the trump campaign apparently was pressuring robinson to drop out on thursday before the deadline to switch candidates that was a gambit that wasn't going to work. I mean, you talked a lot about sprint primaries back in July.
How do you have a primary in two hours? Two hours. Yeah.
They were looking at the Democrats like you pulled off this switch. It's working out for you.
Can we do this in the next four hours? No, but the sort of base Trump voters have a way. They are the, the Kings and motivated reasoning.
Just like Mark Robinson was yesterday on television with Andrew Kaczynski, saying that some internet goblins went back in time using AI to invent these fake posts. I think Trump voters can self-justify anything as long as Trump is at the top of the ticket and he's wearing the MAGAa jersey i guess and i will say this you say this about trump now trump obviously we had suzanne craig on yesterday like most of trump's businesses have been disasters and it's all kind of a big con but like he just gives off the aura of somebody that was a good businessman at least he could be like he should be in charge of stuff he was a businessman mark robinson's entire life was it just has been just a disaster like he's in shambles in his personal life he's like the guy that if this dad was the other dad on your kid's baseball team you're like please don't sit next to me in the stands this person is like he might ask me to borrow some money so like i don't know there's gotta be some gap there i get there obviously some gap trump is doing better him.
There are some people out there that are getting there for Trump, but not for this guy. It's tough.
You made another point, though, that I want to get into. Because you were, for a while, I still are, but really for a while there in the mid-2010s, in our heyday, kind of made your bones at Republican events.
Know the Republican people, know the types of Republican candidates, have good relationships, Republican candidates. You're in South Carolina, have good relations with Republican candidates.
And I think it's underappreciated just like from a supply and demand side, like how bad the supply of Republican candidates is right now. I don't hear like the response with a quote unquote response to Republicans, like Scott Jennings on CNN or Josh Holmes.
None of them ever say this, but it's like when you've created a party where the only thing you need to do to win a primary is be just totally beholden to a charlatan. That's all you got to do.
The top two skills are be the Trumpiest Trump fan in the world and be as mean to woke libs as you can, right? Like those are the two skills like that should be at the top of your resume. If you want to win a primary, like you're going to naturally draw these people.
And this was the point you're going to like, you're going to get George Santos and Mark Robinson and Herschel Walker and Carrie Lake. These are the people you're going to attract because like, you're not judging for military service or business success or whatever and like you know we had weirdos in the republican party in the aughts but like it is a category difference like the candidate like quality yeah look i think there are some exceptions to this i mean obviously you have candidates and politicians in the Republican Party or like someone like Doug Burgum.

Yeah.

Like self-funders.

Well, he's in North Dakota.

Right.

No, they exist sort of outside the boundaries of like media attention and big media markets.

And maybe they came out of nowhere.

Like they, I don't know enough about this race, I should say, but like Tim Sheehy in Montana kind of feels like someone who's like not necessarily like full-blown

maga republic you kiss the ring when you need to i'm not saying it's most people i'm not so here's a good example this is in the news right now mike dewine like how is he governor of ohio so mike dewine when i first met him in 2010 he was in the senate right before he became governor he was sort campaigning around for the Republican ticket at the time. He became governor in 2018, which is a very Trumpy time in the Republican Party and has been reelected twice.
He stood up to Trump in the early days of COVID. He has been a little bit of an aberration in that state.
A very reasonable guy wrote an op-ed in the New York times today, standing up for Springfield and immigration, legal immigration and attacking Trump and Vance for what they're saying about Springfield. Like that guy also exists in a state that is no longer on the table for Democrats because it's so Trumpy.
So there are exceptions out there, you know, like how does a guy like Mike DeWine win a primary? Just name ID. Well, do you think that Mike DeWine, So Mike Tron will be term limited out there you know like how does a guy like mike dewine win a primary just name id well do you think that mike dewine so mike dewine will be term limited out there in 26 and so who are the republicans gonna attract to run for that governor's seat like no matter what happens in this election is it gonna be a mike dewine type or is it gonna be a vivek and like i i mean it'll be a vivek yeah if you want to take if anybody wants to take the other side of this bet for me if there are any like dispatch stands out If anybody wants to take the other side of this bet

from me, if there are any dispatch stands out there

that want to take the other side of this bet,

I would love to be wrong. I would gladly pay out.

Sometimes I bet on

LSU because I'm

hoping, because I'm wishing.

I'm glad to pay

out if we lose. We were at the

LSU-UCLA game a couple years ago

out here at the rose bowl uh

do you have money on the game this week yeah i think this weekend's will be better than that one i think this will be better than that one but you know i'm happy to pay but like sometimes you're wrong i could be wrong ucla could surprise lsu this weekend but like all signs point to the fact that like a vivek model is not a mike dewine model is what's happening And a big reason for that, like, why does this keep happening?

Like, it's because of the incentive. a vivek model it not a mike dewine model is what's happening and a big reason for that

like why does this keep happening like it's because of the incentives right it's because

there's nobody that's like you know there's no incentive to say hey like to win a republican

primary in my resume i want to demonstrate to you that i ran a business and i'm for tax cuts and i'm

like that people and i'm a good upstanding citizen i'm a member of the community i was a leader of

the elks club like nobody cares about that shit like they want to know can you own the libs

This is the first time I'm going to cuts and I'm like that people and I'm a good upstanding citizen I'm a member of the community I was a leader of the Elks Club like nobody cares about that shit like they want to know can you own the libs and and do you like Trump both of these categories though maybe I'm being naive and optimistic here are both backward looking so you've got the MAGA Republican and then you've got the sort of old model Tim Republican you know let's attack Vivek for a second because vivek is the ultimate grifter cornball this guy you know he wrote a couple books about anti-woke corporate culture he's you know you know one of these all-in podcast types for somebody who postures as a business guy an entrepreneur an innovator someone who's you know he went to harvard uses the internet and embraces it no imagination so this is the thing like and this might not be your type of republican but can't there be some republican out there to sort of like fuse the worlds and bend the narrative a little bit in their direction like vivek is all just grafted onto the trump train and he's like, I'm going to do this because I can get famous in this culture. I can get on Fox news, et cetera, and make some bucks off a few books and then run for office in Ohio.
You know, I think Ohio is interesting. I mean, in that same election, DeWine won, Sherrod Brown won, you know, it like Republicans won the house vote Ohio in 2018.
And I think, by the way, Sherrod Brown can win this year against a Trumpy guy. I'm not saying Ohio Republicans will reject Vivek, but it's all just like very backwards looking, very uninteresting at this point.
Like the cult, maybe we're just in our blue bubbles, I guess, but it feels like it's getting old like can't somebody come along and rebrand not the party but like what republicanism means yeah i mean there'll have to be some kind of fusion if trump loses i guess but i don't know how you get away from the supply and demand problem like if what people people are incentivizing is lib owning, then you're going to get... But isn't 2022 the counterexample?

All the Republicans run as MAGA and lost.

And that's the general election.

He's not in the ballot.

The primary electorate.

Look, Mark Robinson ran in a primary against somebody that was like,

what's a good Southern name? Give me a good Southern name. Brett.
Yeah, you know? Brett. Yeah, what's like a good Ole Miss SAE name? Thad.
Thad. Thad.
Yeah, he ran against somebody that was just like. Cooper.
Yeah. Cooper.
There you go. Yeah, he ran against a guy that was just like Cooper Brown brownstone and cooper was like a regional manager so he's like a business guy he's at the chamber of commerce and he wore a blue blazer and like he also you know had a casual outfit that he wore that he got from billy reed or whatever and uh like he just was like a upper middle class southern man the like.
Went to NC State and did everything you're supposed to do.

And Mark Robinson, who before we even knew that he was a porn fiend,

we already knew that he was a Holocaust denier and a freak weirdo,

beat him like 70 to 30.

That's the problem.

That is, to me, the biggest takeaway from what we're learning from the Vivark thing.

Vivek, though, you mentioned this.

I have one little note here.

I'm glad you mentioned Vivek.

I want to come back to him. To just show you how fucking how fucking weird jd vance has gotten in all this i don't know if you saw the story vivek wouldn't go there on the cat eating but they got asked he had some event for trump and they were trying to pressure him because he's thinking about running for governor of ohio and they're like so what do you think about this cat eating thing he's like yeah you know it's like i can't he's like i can't really i'm not gonna be the judge between what people are saying out there i just know that there's some real problems in the community we got to deal with i mean if you are jd vance you got to be like man if i'm advancing a conspiracy so absurd that not even vivek would go there they're pretty deep down the rabbit hole yeah vivek has actually in recent months tweeted a few things where like, I wouldn't say he's been urging sanity.
You can see that little antenna. Yeah, exactly.
Like, and this is what I'm saying. Like, God bless the people of Ohio.
This is the, the Peter Hamby sports slash coaching tree special. Like, you know, I have North Carolina people.
My dad's from Cincinnati. My family's Cincinnati.
I'm a Red reds fan i don't think vivek's been to a single reds game this year uh you know challenges ohio credentials on that but yeah like his antenna is toward running for governor and maybe he's got to moderate a little bit he's like ben shapiro like he confuses being loud and confuses being good at debate with being an intellectual.

And, you know, he can bend words to whichever direction he wants to suit his political end. One last closing thought on Ohio before I want to get to Kamala.
The Mike DeWine op-ed that you mentioned, it was nice. It was nice.
It was good. Except for one paragraph was everything that I would like.
I was going to say most of that stuff really was. Could be George W.
Bush 2003. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Could be George W. Bush 2003.
Compassionate conservatism. Immigrants are an important part of the fabric.
Pluralism. And he was hitting all my notes.
And then we get to this line. As a supporter of former President Trump and J.D.
Vance, I'm saddened by how they and others continue to repeat claims that lack evidence and disparage legal migrants living in Springfield. This rhetoric hurts the city and its people, and it hurts those who have spent their lives there.
Does he have to do this? Why does he have to do this? He's 77. He's retiring.
He's retiring. Come into the light, Mike DeWine.
It's okay. It's okay.
Just kind of go down to the store grab a couple coconuts just check kamala's fine um kamala water's fine for mike dewine how does he look at these people and he's like you are disparaging and lying about my constituents and you are putting them in danger and i'm proud to support you for president of the united states these united states it is It's one of those things so it's a little it leaves me wanting people overanalyze the behavior of politicians like mike dewine and by the way this cuts to a lot of maga stuff and why a lot of republicans went along with the train he wants to keep going to the conventions and the fundraiser like this is his whole life why he's 77 people like going to conventions i don't know man it's her whole life take your wife down to del boca vista go down to del boca vista you know that's great it's a great life enjoy your golden years you want to go to a fucking rubber chicken dinner with don trump Jr. in Toledo in 2025? That's what you want to do? Really? So, you know, I'm on the Mike DeWine Wikipedia page right now.
He was first elected as a county prosecutor in 1977. I am bad at math.
What is that? 40 years ago? It's a long time. It's a long time, man.
When you get in the game the game you become an addict and this is like your whole life and your whole culture and your friends and the people you date and the parties and your commonalities with people like it's just what you do and so but by the way i agree with you and scott our pal we always text about this too like if you are rupert murdoch or you are bob eiger or you are you know any super rich person like it's the logan roy thing like if you're

that rich what's stopping you from like boating around the caribbean all the time and like living

your life and like you have 10 horse ranches like go ride horses or whatever and so politicians i

think the same thing not wealthy but like yeah you know there's lots of things you can do

Thank you. you have 10 horse ranches like go ride horses or whatever and so politicians i think the same thing not wealthy but like yeah you know there's lots of things you can do mike dewine let me be your nalaxone like let me get you off this drug this you know you can just do it come on down to new orleans that's great love a purple drink your life will be fine life goes on you don't need to do it anymore it's been a good it was a 46 year run mike dewan is not going to lafitte's my friend i have heat well we could find you we could take you to brennan's we can have a nice dinner go to our notes right sit up there on the balcony come on mike dewan you got 40 some odd days left legends the greatest social casino and Sportsbook experience has arrived at legends.com with thousands of the best free-to-play casino style games chances to earn millions of bonus coins and win real money legends is revolutionizing the vegas experience wherever you are if you love winning then you'll love playing at legendz.com legends is a free-to-play social casino void we're Pro're prohibited to play responsibly.
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We got to talk about Kamala. You were texting me last night.
I forget what it said. Something like, this is my shit.
So let's listen to it. I'm a gun owner.
Tim Walz is a gun. I did not know that.
If somebody breaks in my house, they're getting shot. Yes, yes.
I hear that. I hear that.
Probably should not have said that. My staff will deal with that later.
Kamala the cop. Kamala the rogue cop.
Shooting, breaking, and entering people. That's good, right?

It was really good.

So our pal Keith Edwards, by the way, tweeted this last night.

He tweeted the quote, if someone breaks into my house, they're getting shot, Kamala Harris.

And then he tweeted a screen grab of a 270 to win map that's entirely blue.

Like 100% electoral college victory.

But that's the thing.

Like the Trump campaign tweeted this out as if it were a gaffe.

That was weird.

The Trump campaign put it out.

And by the way,

the relatable Kamala and Doug live in Brentwood,

which is,

you know,

not since the OJ murder,

uh,

pretty safe place.

Um,

but relatable,

relatable LA homeowner comment.

Other than that,

Mrs. Lincoln, other than the most famous murder of our lifetime it's been a really safe neighborhood by the way by the way i'm gonna fact check myself home invasions in los angeles are up this year los angeles obviously has a crime problem liberals can pretend crime in cities is fine it's not kamala harris saying i would fucking shoot somebody if they broke into my house to protect like my family extremely relatable not just in la but fucking everywhere and so it's not just the kamala is a cop thing that she's going back on like there's something i've noticed about her and this goes back to when i interviewed her in march for my for my snapchat show you you and I and our friends on our text groups, we've talked for a while about the Kamala Harris between 2019 and 2021 was like, what are you? What do you believe in? You don't have a coherent worldview.
You feel insecure. You're always playing defense.
You're not good in interviews. When she is confident, she is very good.
good and for whatever reason she has been confident since joining this campaign as the nominee and when she talks about herself and when she speaks freely off talking points she's pretty good man like it was like when she was talking to dana bash and said next question about know, her racial identity. When I think this was in the NABJ thing the other day, someone asked her about her laugh and she just pivoted and she's like, be yourself.
Like she's good in those moments when she kind of goes candidly off script. Like she is a normal person, despite being a politician.
None of them are normal. We should never idolize these people these people but that was a great answer like it just felt relatable regardless of the politics i was on drudge this morning and this is a wall street journal headline the most surprising new gun owners in america are u.s liberals after decades of decline u.s gun ownership is rising among democrats so i don't really love that trend to be honest but um this might be correlated here LA and other cities, your former city of Oakland.
A big rise in gun ownership is among Asian Americans and AAPI because during COVID, these people were getting harassed and beaten on the streets. Like in LA, people were lining up.
Asian folks were lining up at gun stores to buy guns. Asian people tend to vote down.
I'm not saying those things are related or correlated, but I'm not sure I love it either. but you know what it's not a bad thing for kamala harris to say donald trump doesn't know how to shoot a gun yeah exactly no he doesn't and the thing about the oprah follow-up that i liked was it was authentic and it was at the debate it was like the one moment from the debate that i was like she's a gun owner and like on the one hand it was like that's an interesting fact i just learned on the other hand it's like it was kind of like really you're really one she said that in 2019 yeah i had forgotten that i had missed that completely she said it also a few weeks ago i just i just missed it so the debate when she said that i was like is that real like did she did she just buy one to say it like um and so i it was much more like oh no i'm a gun owner and i'll and'll cap you if you break into my house.
I liked that element of it. It just felt more real.
The other point though about Kamala and how she's really kind of come into her own. You were on this after your interview with her.
In March, you said it was? And this was well before the switch. What struck you about that interview? I guess you were in Arizona with her, right? Was there anything that you kind of remembered that struck you as being particularly strong or giving you kind of a different look at her? So I, again, I'm not one of these reporters who's covered the Hill or covered her in California going back a long time.
I'd interviewed her twice. Once in Oakland.
I was crashing with you and Tyler and did a GLA interview. Drew was there, 2018, 2019.
first time I talked to her since being VP. And I had done some reporting for puck about, you know, all the stuff we've been hearing about like staff turnover in the, in the white house, but also stuff going back to when, you know, she was AG in California.
And so I just hadn't spent time around her. This was an abortion rights event in Arizona.
She's been like since Dobbs, her portfolio under the Biden administration was abortion, but also like rallying the young people on college campuses. And so she had been spending time on campuses.
She's been spending time talking about something she was comfortable talking about like abortion rights. Like she's remember the whole like prosecutor thing people miss the like people oversimplify i can take the case to donald trump that's not it the prosecutor thing is one reason she was good in these senate hearings is she just needs a clear target one thing to aim at and talk about in the primary like you have 10 opponents in 2020 like i don't know what to talk about got to grab something out of thin air and run on it yeah here with abortion rights it's great for her and so it was that this is also during like some hot gaza moments and i just noticed when i interviewed her after this rally her tone on gaza was much more sympathetic to the palestinians without deviating from the Biden administration policy line.
So I thought that like sort of rhetorical move was good. And that I think was sprung from spending time around college students and young people in a way Biden doesn't and didn't.
And just like it was, again, this confidence that I think comes from one, spending time campaigning and talking about issues that are good for her but two just batting practice so you're vice president and this is why Kamala Harris you and I agreed in the days of July when Biden was in trouble she was always going to be the nominee and it wasn't because this is the party of black women or like Kamala Harris deserves it she deserved it because she was the vice president and she would be the best option to slot in there and run a sprint campaign you put josh shapiro and gretchen whitmer and sorry sarah longwell i know you're listening and you're a josh shapiro super fan i gotta tell you i gotta tell you the whisper campaigns are in the whispering around never every time there's a pennsylvania poll that's not, the whispering that comes out about she should have picked Josh. I just, I just, I'm telling you in these secret Never Trumper basement meetings that I go to.
Nobody wants to say it out loud anymore because it's like, we're not going back, but you hear the whispers. But anyway.
I want to give Josh Shapiro a stray here. He won his race against Mark Robinson of Pennsylvania.
Like white Mark Robinson. Yeah, like he ran, he won his race resoundingly against a total zero.

I thought Doug Mastriano was a zero.

It turns out Doug Mastriano is like a 15

because it seems like he had

gainful employment and had some hobbies

that weren't related to piss porn.

That's true.

Good on you, Doug Mastriano.

Just to punctuate the Kamala Harrisris thing like she she unlike these governors like had been in the cauldron of national politics as vice president for several years and running for president had done the media interviews been in meetings with world leaders been in the oval office so when you show up and talk to a reporter you know that's small potatoes suddenly after doing that for two or three years compared to stepping into the Democratic primary in 2019. Again, it's confidence.
It's like any interview. I'm smarter than this fucking person that I'm talking to, and I'm going to show it.
And by the way, I think she kind of thinks that about Donald Trump too now. Yeah, she really does.
I know you listened to the Amy Walter podcast on Tuesday. I'm a little more bullish than Amy.
I think Amy was insightful, very insightful about kind of the demographics, but a little bit cautious on the prognosticating. You're more of a, you know, you're a pundit type.
You're not weighed down by having to have race rankings. So where do you kind of see things standing here on Friday, september 20th you'd rather be kamala harris than donald trump right now on september 20th but remember there was a poll a very good high quality poll of wisconsin from marquette university also in the hamby coaching tree because my mom went to marquette biden winning by five or six points in late october of wisconsin by five before the election.
And he won by one point, less than a point. So I was talking to our pal Adisu.
Actually, no, he said this very good, very good episode of Pod Save America, by the way, with him and Dan the other day. Pod Save what? Pod Save America.
It's a John Lovett from Survivor hosted sometimes. I don't know if you know him he lost in the first i'll have to check that out john lovett got voted off in the first episode of survivor i know we i broke the news i spoiled that for people on yesterday's podcast two mentions so far this week about that um yeah yeah more strays caught but adisu made an astute point which is like all i know like if the race is in a margin of error and Democrats are in a position to win right now, that's the best we can hope for.
And underneath that, you know, I have tools and levers as a campaign that I can pull to get over the finish line. So I think Amy made some very smart points going in.
And when you guys were talking about the different shades of whites in all of these states, I you guys unlocked something that was very interesting in your conversation and i had a conversation with the pennsylvania republican yesterday that sort of aligned with this kamalai is making inroads with non-college whites a little bit which is good we'll see if that holds women particular yes yeah what's interesting is that she's kind of at parity with biden with college whites around like philadelphia so you would think that she would be doing a lot better with college whites around philly and she's kind of according to this washington post poll that came out this week she's just kind of the same so why isn't she maximizing her numbers and this why might be why she's... The Penn State whites are worse than the Wisconsin whites.
Amy Walter didn't say that. I said it, but it was my interpretation of her analysis.
Let's talk about different varietals of whites. The Philadelphia College suburban whites, how are they different than the whites of Wisconsin? This is your line, like Madison, Wisconsin, Dane County, they deliver North Korea levels to Democrats these days, like 90-10 margins.
And that kind of white is the kind of white guy who wears a Futurist female t-shirt and a white woman who listens to Pod Save America. But over in Philly, you've got, is it crime? You might know better than me, like the Philly dads who live in Bucks County, like what's different about them? Well, they're no blondes.
I mean, we're really getting into it now, but you know, it's a lot more, you got the Italians and you know, it's just a little bit, yeah, it's different. What do you mean the Italians? I mean, I'm just telling you like, I just, yeah.
I mean, like you have, I mean, they went to college, but it's just like a different culture, like the Catholic, you know, kind of Philly, sort of Italian and Greek and like that, like that is the vibe in Philly. Aren't you talking about like a white ethnic, like lunch bucket type? Yeah, like the white, yeah.
That's a non-college type. That's a non-college type.
Peter, I want to let you know that many of the white ethnic lunch bucket guys who, you know, the sopranos they had children but you know they went to college aj went to college and aj is a robert f kennedy jr voter okay that's what i'm talking about like it's still it's just it's still a different like it's a different cultural vibe than you have around in dane county but in pennsylvania do they care about crime do they care about fracking in a way that they don't in Detroit? Yeah, I mean, sure. Yeah, I guess probably.
But I don't think that it's as much that. I think that there's more of a progressive...
Look, you also have the Wisconsin kind of long progressive history in the state. I think that it's cultural and it's...
And Long will point this out when we were talking, I forget, on one of our 100 podcasts the other day. And she's like, the other people that are college educated, and I can't even name these colleges because I have to raise my hand.
I'm an out-of-touch elite at some times. But she's from central Pennsylvania.
And she's like, you forget that college educated whites include people that went to Mechanicsburg College. That's not real.
I just made that up. But I, you know what I mean? Yeah.
They're like all kinds of colleges in the middle of the state and like the types of people who graduate from there. Like they have some cultural interests and elements that are like closer to MAGA than college educated folksated folks that went to more premier schools.

I'm taking Good Luck America, my show, on the road in October.

We're doing a little college tour.

We are going to Penn State.

So I'm interested to hear from the folks there.

And Turning Point yesterday had a big flex where they registered hundreds of bros, mostly

bros, on campus ahead of the election.

So yeah, I think that'll be a feeding frenzy for me and my camera crew when we get there i'm very interested to see what they say legends the greatest social casino and sportsbook experience has arrived at legends.com with thousands of the best free-to-play casino style games chances to earn millions of bonus coins and win real money legends is revolutionizing the ve experience wherever you are. If you love winning, then you'll love playing at legendz.com.
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Let's take us to our second to last topic. I was not a big fan of the white guys for Kamala call.
And many listeners weren't a big fan of me not being a big fan of that. They thought it was nice.
And if it was nice for you and you were on the call, I honor your experience. But the white guy affinity groups are a little weird for me.
And the whole energy around it was a little weird. And I got to tell you, they put out an ad.
I guess they raised money and I thought was supposed to go to the campaign, but maybe they had a separate fundraiser for themselves. And they put out an ad yesterday.
And let's just listen to a little bit of it. Hey, white dudes.
So I think we're all pretty sick of hearing how much we suck. Every time you go online, it's the same story.
We're the problem. And yeah, some white dudes are.
Trump and all his MAGA buddies are out there making it worse, shouting nonsense in their stupid red hats and acting like they speak for us when they don't. All they've ever done is screw us over.
But if you're not on the MAGA train, where do you go? Isn't it just swapping out one crappy option for another? Then it hit me. This isn't about picking teams.
It's about who's got a plan that's going to make life better for me and my family so i've been doing my own research it goes on from there it's just like it's really bad man dude the worst ad of the cycle by far and some people are going to be like why so tell them why it's bad let me let me tell you why And I'm not a political practitioner like you, but I've learned a lot from you and your friends, former and current over the years. Here's a few reasons why.
My beloved high school English teacher, Miss Gunter, taught me the singular rule of writing and storytelling, which is show, don't tell. This voice actor or AI generated bozo is just saying like, Trump sucks, Trump sucks we have a plan we have a plan they have a plan i'm a bro what's the plan like what's the plan are you a bro yeah why are you a bro who are the bros is the bro like is the white dude that's talking is it tim walls is it bill clinton is it baby gronk is it channing tatum like who the fuck is the white dude for harris that is telling me here like to vote for walls harris so i learned something from you in 2020 that was interesting and i also did a piece for vanity fair about this with some democrats who are message testing ads against trump in 2020 when you were doing republican voters against trump in 2020 the stuff was stripped down but it was good because you would find our pal brett in north carolina or chuck in detroit and they could be tommy in texas tommy in texas they could be 40 they could be 60 and they would it would be straight to camera in the recorded on their phone and they'd be like i voted for trump in 2016 because i wanted to change now i realize he's been a disaster for xyz and so one you have this relatable person giving you permission to not like donald trump and that worked because it wasn't just ad hominem attacks against trump which actually in focus groups and in online message testing showed backfire because it's like okay like leave the guy alone but tell me why i should vote for you on a basis of issues and the issue by the way could be democracy could be he's disruptive but it could also be something about the economy here's the other thing is there's no issue set at all in here like none like they're not telling me any single issue any reason any compelling reason to vote for harris or walls and then it's such a waste of money.
They spent $10 million on this ad. They should have given it to the campaign.
They should have come up with some different kind of creative. And it's not, it doesn't tell me anything.
Just handed it out to kids on campus or whatever. Yeah, it's bad.
It also sounds, just my one sentence and we'll just move past this. It also sounds like it was written by an Elizabeth Warren supporter.
And again, nothing wrong with Elizabeth Warren supporter. Nothing wrong with that if you're an Elizabeth Warren supporter.
But like, you're not trying to reach Elizabeth Warren supporters. They're already voting for Kamala.
So you want to sound authentic. The other thing that just came to mind is Harris has been very astute, this campaign of not talking about identity politics, like, and that's good, talking to subgroups hispanics black folks young old whatever women men uh based on issue sets that matter to them you can see that kamala harris is a black woman a black south asian woman you can see that and the reason she picked tim walles is apparent too to counter counterbalance that but when tim wallz goes out and talks to white dudes he's saying putting things in in relatable terms for those white dudes and their wives and daughters abortion rights whatever and this just is it's a very online thing like it's a bunch of elizabeth warren supporters on twitter who like wear futures female t-shirts to the brew pub.
And it's like, we don't need you guys. You're already voting Democrat.
Yeah, great. Yeah, we already got you.
It's like an idea that was concocted in like a clubhouse chat room in 2019 for other dudes to validate themselves. And it's not talking to that harris needs to get off the couch or pull away from donald trump i'm gonna end on a positive note on this front there's video tim wallace out there we'll put it in the show notes because i don't have time to get to it but there's video tim wallace talking to some high school bros tim wallace is actually good at this and sounds like an authentic person so there is ways to do this maybe if you're if you're out there white dudes for harris just cut ads of Tim Walls talking instead of the AI person.
Alternatively, if you don't want to use Tim Walls, if you're going to go really based, go find that video of Dave Portnoy, Barstool Dave Portnoy, shouting about how terrible the overturn of Roe is. And literally just playing that 30-second ad in front on Broe podcast, just literally, here's 30 seconds of Dave Portnoy paid for by white bros for Harris, like that would be 100,000 times better than what you did.
So there are two constructive ideas for any rich Democrats that are listening. One last thing.
I do want to mention Neil King. You knew Neil King, right? Yeah, great guy.
Great man, great guy. He's a reporter for the Wall Street Journal.
He's a great writer, a great person. He loved the country.
He did not equivocate about Donald Trump. He got cancer a few years ago, left the journal, went on a walk across America, wrote a book about it.
I'll put the link to the book in the show notes as well. And in addition to me admiring him as a writer and as a reporter that I worked with on stories, I also admired him as a father i bumped into neil king on a weeknight at a foxygen show at rock and roll hotel i walked into the foxygen show i forget who i was with maybe maybe tyler i guess probably not you or you'd remember and and some other friends and i saw neil king in the back corner i was like hey neil what's up man what are you doing he's like oh i like the man i.
Are you here by yourself? And he said, no, my daughter's up there at the front with her friends. And I brought her to the show.
And I was like, that is a good dad. That is the kind of dad I want to be.
So Neil King will be missed. Neil, I really got to know like 2011, 2012, when you were doing that primary.
He's exactly like you described. He cared about politics and journalism and media, but he had a life beyond that.
He was wry and cynical in a funny way and by the way as a younger reporter you always like idolize these older reporters he always took the time to be nice and complimentary of your reporting and like some older folks didn't do that out on the campaign trail i will never forget how kind he was while also being like a funny cynical guy that

like you and I like to hang out with and get. There's not a lot of reporters that like you,

Tim, would want to like go out and hang with. Neil was one of those guys.
I have his book.

Everyone go order his book, American Ramble in memoriam of him. Just a fantastic guy.

Neil King, rest easy, my friend. Peter Hamby.
Thanks for doing this. Let's do it again soon.

Everybody else up next. I got just a few quick thoughts on the Olivia Knutzi story.
All right. So if you missed it, news broke that frequent podcast guest Olivia Knutzi was in what is reportedly a romantic but not physical relationship with RFK Jr.
and is on leave with New York Magazine. That's a strange one.
Many of you have asked my thoughts. A couple have been pretty nasty about it and should maybe step away from the computer.
But it is an ethos of this podcast that I'm radically candid with you. And so when stuff like this happens, I'll tell you what I think, not hide from it.
And here's the deal. I have a personal relationship with Olivia.
We're not divulging affair-level friends, apparently, because I was as caught off guard as anyone. Like I said, it's definitely a strange situation.
I'm still not exactly clear on the details on what that means. What I do know is Olivia and I have a personal bond.
We've been through some shit together. I also got a note from David Frum this morning.
David said that among all the younger journalists who knew their late daughter, Miranda, Olivia was among the most attentive after she'd passed, drove to Toronto for the funeral, and her consideration meant a lot to them at a tough time. So people contain multitudes.
Darren is two-dimensionals, they may seem, online. My concern for Olivia right now is as a friend who's taken a lot of abuse and not about whatever kind of imaginary Twitter war people are in with her.
As far as what that means is her status as a guest on this podcast, I just, I don't think that's as important as the other elements out there right now. I know in past episodes, she was candid and informative and enlightening and engaging exactly what I'm looking for in a guest on this podcast, but guests also need to be truthful.
And if it turns out that she wasn't practicing that, then we'll assess what happened and we'll be transparent about it whenever the time comes that she's back to work.

And hopefully there'll be a time that she's back to work because everybody gets second acts in

this life. So that's all I got for you on that.
I hope everybody has a very fulfilling weekend.

Stay away from those porn message boards and we'll see you back here on Monday with Bill Crystal.

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The Bullard Podcast is produced

by Katie Cooper with audio

engineering and editing by Jason

Brett. by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brough.
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