My Full Conversation With Gavin Newsom, Annotated

Speaker 1 Hey everybody, this is the entirety of my conversation with Gavin Newsom, but also with my commentary.

Speaker 1 If you want to listen to it without any commentary, that is on Gavin Newsom's podcast page, which I have an obligatory, let's just say, duty to say.

Speaker 1 If you want to listen to that, you can go to this is Gavin Newsom. But if you want to listen also with my commentary throughout, that's why you are here.

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Buckle up, everybody. Here we go.

Speaker 3 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

Speaker 2 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

Speaker 4 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

Speaker 4 I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

Speaker 3 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

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Speaker 1 Okay, everybody, you've been asking for the entire conversation with Gavin Newsom and myself.

Speaker 1 I'm going to be giving commentary throughout this conversation about some of my thoughts, but it is the entire thing that you'll be able to watch.

Speaker 1 Also, the full unedited, let's just say with no commentary is on Gavin Newsom's YouTube page, but I think you want to stay right here.

Speaker 1 Make sure you guys hit subscribe on this extremely viral conversation that I had with Gavin Newsom.

Speaker 1 Starts out with Gavin Newsom talking about how his son is a big fan of mine, history of Turning Point USA, history of what we've done at Turning Point USA, and our goals and mission.

Speaker 1 By the way, anyone out there, you guys should get involved with Turning Point USA. You should start a Turning Point USA chapter.
You should get involved with Turning Point Action.

Speaker 1 We are moving the dial. We are bringing this generation to the finish line to be a conservative generation.
So here it is, the beginning of my chat with Governor Gavin Gavin Newsom.

Speaker 4 By the way, what brings you to California, your favorite state?

Speaker 2 It is my favorite. Ooh, this thing's falling.
It is my favorite state in the Union. You're doing such a great job here, by the way.

Speaker 2 No, I'm honored to be on the show. Thank you.

Speaker 4 You were just down at USC?

Speaker 2 I was at USC yesterday. It drew a big crowd.

Speaker 4 By the way, I knew you were at USC early because my niece, who's graduating, she was the one with the MAGA hat on.

Speaker 4 She was, by the way, I do have to watch, but she was down there and she was like, she said, you never know. These kids are going to the right.

Speaker 4 I'm aware. She said, this crowd's crazy.
He said, she said, and she, and the only reason she said, she would have said it perhaps otherwise, but she knew you were coming on.

Speaker 4 The worst part though, Charlie, no BS, true story. Literally last night, trying to put my son to bed, he's like, no, dad, I just, what time? What time is Charlie going to be here? What time?

Speaker 4 And I'm like, dude, you're in school tomorrow. He's 13.
He's like, no, no, this morning wakes up at six up.

Speaker 2 And he's like, I'm coming.

Speaker 4 I'm like, he literally would not leave the house.

Speaker 2 Did you let him take off school?

Speaker 4 No, he did. Of course not.
He's not here for a good reason. But the point is the point.

Speaker 4 years once one

Speaker 4 the point is the point which is you are making a damn debt thank you i'm kidding i'm no but i know and i but i appreciate that i mean it's the reason you're here because i think people need to understand your success your influence what you've been up to and the fact that you're on these college campus doors and to your point man you just open up i mean you're like ask me anything anything challenge me challenge me whatever when did this when did this whole thing when did you start putting it together i've been at this for 13 years and it's been a wild movement, really accelerated once President Trump kind of came on the scene.

Speaker 2 Right around, I'd say, 2021, we had a goal. Could we move the youth vote 10 points over 10 years? And we...

Speaker 4 And was it literally you sat down and put that numerical together?

Speaker 2 Yeah, like, can we move it 10 points over 10 years-ish, you know, approximate.

Speaker 2 Because our whole hypothesis was, and we, you know, we did this alongside President Trump and his great team, was that this demographic is disproportionately to the Democrat side.

Speaker 2 We believe Democrats were taking them for granted. We think that your side had no message whatsoever and an ideological monopoly.
We saw some of the fault lines there.

Speaker 2 And to President Trump's credit, he also harmonized with the strategy by going on podcasting and using TikTok. But yeah, I mean, we did it in four years, not 10, large in part thanks to you guys.

Speaker 4 And we'll get to that and sincerely get to that because I want to stress test some of those fault lines as it relates to the reality of our party and where we are today, vis-a-vis your ascendancy, not just individually as an organization.

Speaker 4 But where was that sort of moment for you? Because it's interesting. I mean, you're such a young guy, so it's not a deep biography here.

Speaker 4 It's not like 20 years in the wilderness, writing his first book, getting a TV show that was canceled, coming back. It's more just this immediacy of ascendancy.

Speaker 4 Was it, I mean, were you always sort of born and bred with an ideological mindset or were you more open-minded and you started to realize a lot of BS was out there?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've always been conservative,

Speaker 2 obviously grown in that over the last, you know, 10-ish years. Was more libertarian, I'd say, in the first couple of years, as to be expected, as I got married and have kids become more conservative.

Speaker 2 But no, look, just one of the things we saw in the last couple of years that the Democrats completely ignored and your side was basically not acknowledging it was happening was the crisis that young people were experiencing.

Speaker 2 That, I mean, just one, it's the first time in America's history that a 30-year-old is going to have it worse off than their parents. It's a breakdown of the social compact.

Speaker 2 They They are the most alcohol-addicted, most drug-addicted, most suicidal, most depressed, most medicated generation in history.

Speaker 2 And the message that was largely being fed to a lot of young people was lower your expectations. You're not going to have the same American dream that your parents would have.

Speaker 2 And we saw this as an opportunity, especially with young men. And again, this got ridiculed a lot by the press: that, oh, you know, they're creating this manosphere thing.

Speaker 2 Look, they're half of the population and necessary for any society and civilization to succeed, which is to have both strong men and strong women.

Speaker 2 And we went about that in a very unique and creative way. And again, the president became a cultural phenomenon where no matter what you threw at this guy,

Speaker 2 he rose above it. You even have to give him credit.
I mean, basically, 700 years in federal prison, you know, states tried to kick him off the ballot.

Speaker 2 I know you spoke out against it, but California did have a faction that tried to kick him off the ballot, right?

Speaker 2 And despite all of that, of course, being shot, and that was kind of the crescendo of all of it, he kind of became this figure of an American comeback story.

Speaker 2 So he personified what a lot of young people, especially young men, wanted back in their politics, which was an ascendant rebel attitude against these institutions that have failed them so miserably.

Speaker 4 It's interesting. So what would, and you keep saying we, which is interesting, and that's the organization that you created to have a lot of people.
Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 We would be like conservative movement MAGA. But yes, I have Turning Point Usé, Turning Point Action, Charlie Kirk Show.

Speaker 2 But when I'm saying we, I mean more specifically, kind of those of us that saw this political moment three or four years ago. Right.

Speaker 4 But you were at this even before then. Correct.
Yeah. So when did you decide to sort of just shift your gear? I mean, you were working for another Kirkhood campaign.
Mark,

Speaker 4 Mark Kirk. So you had a political, obviously

Speaker 4 strong political leanings, or at least desire to sort of be in the political sphere, but not in elected office necessarily. You just wanted to be behind the scenes after that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, like the biography has been written about a million times, but I mean, didn't go to college, wanted to go to West Point, didn't get in. I'm an entrepreneur.
Yeah, Yeah, love it.

Speaker 2 Started this organization, and it became far more successful than I ever could have realized.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 yeah, the

Speaker 2 kind of as we started to grow the organization, I recognized that there was an ideological imbalance on a lot of these college campuses, and we wanted to go about trying to offer a counterpoint of conservative, you know, pro-freedom, pro-liberty, you know, America first ideas.

Speaker 4 And you saw the college campuses as sort of the underbelly of the opportunity, or is it just more just experiential in terms of your own sort of animus towards the campus? Well, I mean,

Speaker 2 you have a sitting population of about 20 million kids that are there for four years. There's that.
And also, again,

Speaker 2 you had nowhere to go but up. I mean, 70%, when we started in 2012, 75% of kids on college campuses would vote for Democrats.

Speaker 2 Now, fast forward to today, this last election cycle, Democrats lost the youth vote. in Michigan, nearly lost it in Wisconsin, nearly lost it in Arizona.
So our goal was, hey, let's move it 10 points.

Speaker 2 We moved at 13 points.

Speaker 2 And this is important important for your audience to know and for Democrats to reckon with, of which I see no signs that Democrats care at all that they're losing the next generation.

Speaker 2 We're drawing record crowds. Our ranks are expanding.
The most support that President Trump has is voters under 30. 60% of voters under 30 support President Trump.
It's according to Ras Musin.

Speaker 2 You might say that's a little rich. It might be, but it's directionally true.

Speaker 2 And one of the main reasons that this has all been happening is that baby boomers have actually seen their wealth increased the last four years.

Speaker 2 They don't buy into this whole idea that our institutions are broken or that they're in need of massive, bottom-up, revolutionary change.

Speaker 2 And we see that actually, Kamala Harris did three points better with baby boomers than she did in 2020.

Speaker 2 And the number one story that

Speaker 2 James Carville, who everyone takes seriously for some reason, should have been saying, is like all Kamala Harris had to do was just do the same with younger voters that Joe Biden did in 2020.

Speaker 2 And she would be president right now.

Speaker 4 And remind us what Joe Biden did in 2020.

Speaker 2 It was 13 points better.

Speaker 4 Just in terms of just the same thing.

Speaker 2 Again, this is kind of a combination of exit polling.

Speaker 2 So it's really, it's a difficult science to pinpoint.

Speaker 4 So that goes back then, I mean, to your point, in order to do that, you've got to stand for something. You've got to assert yourself.
You've got to have a strategy and you've got to implement it.

Speaker 2 You just have to not believe crazy stuff.

Speaker 4 And not believe crazy stuff. I mean, and so for you, I mean, it's interesting.
Just, you know, this last week, I guess you were at USC, you were at University of Florida.

Speaker 4 You had thousands and thousands of folks. You get, to your point, your crowds are growing.
2012, where were you? You were coming in and people were, I mean, you were taking, I mean,

Speaker 4 you were like getting threats. I mean, you still get tons of threats.

Speaker 4 But it was, I mean, what was it like? Just to paint a picture of you walking to a college campaign.

Speaker 2 I had no money, no connections, and no idea what I was doing. And yeah, I mean, we were, I didn't even have a social media account.
I mean, it was just the ultimate startup.

Speaker 4 And what did you just say, I'm available? And you started at this sort of debate?

Speaker 2 No, it was even more scrappy. I would literally show up to UW-Madison with a card table and a big cardboard sign saying, debate me.
You know, like, here's some provocative.

Speaker 2 You're 20-something years ago. I wouldn't even film it.
I was 18 or 19. 18 or 19.

Speaker 4 And so you just what by the way where does that end and sincerely to be able to debate anybody at any time anywhere and in that environment it's just just i mean just i you can you can say it's just confidence or it's just absolutely i mean narcissism what is it well i mean just or just you know i hope it's not the other but no i mean i guess it would just be i mean at the most charitable reading it could be confidence it'd also be just be that i I wanted to try and challenge the predominant view.

Speaker 2 I always loved debate and disagreement. I loved the kind of spar.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I also find it to be exciting, and I wanted to try to, you know, figure out where my idea is actually that good and to kind of draw. Stress test.

Speaker 4 And are you 10x better than you were in 2012 at the format? Probably. Probably.
And you study it or you just participate. I mean,

Speaker 4 you look at the old great debates or you're reading debating books, you're watching sort of that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I mean, less about debating.

Speaker 2 I mean, debating is a practice that can really only be refined, you know, with lots of routine and reps and repetition, just more about studying, you know, the great books, philosophy, right?

Speaker 2 All those things.

Speaker 4 And so, you, and you make a point of pride of that. I mean, you are to the point you never, you know, you went to community college.
And

Speaker 2 I didn't even graduate community college. I didn't even graduate,

Speaker 4 which is great. By the way, I was going to college in Marin.
I got lucky, got a baseball coach that called me and allowed me to get to a four-year university.

Speaker 4 I was joking with you before we started, 960 SAT. I asked you about your SAT.
You said I took hello.

Speaker 2 I took the ACT.

Speaker 4 I took the ACT, which proves two things how young young you are.

Speaker 1 Okay, so the conversation continued about college.

Speaker 1 I wrote an entire book called The College Scam, and I should have emphasized even more about how the UC system, which Governor Newsom oversees, is a complete failure.

Speaker 1 Didn't quite have time to do that, but looking back, hindsight is 2020. I should have interjected and talked about how broken the UC system is, how much indoctrination is happening in the UC system.

Speaker 1 Also, Lomez, who came on our program, great guy, educated me about AB 101, about how kids are required to learn DEI and critical race theory in California schools.

Speaker 1 I did a lot of research and prep in anticipation for this conversation. I was unaware of that, so I probably should have interjected that.

Speaker 1 College tuition has skyrocketed dramatically, and the Democrats and Gavin Newsom have done nothing to lower the cost of college, nothing to increase career preparedness.

Speaker 1 In fact, more and more kids are not even learning basic American history, basic civics, or basic world history.

Speaker 1 We also talked a little bit more in this segment about my political history and some of my political leanings.

Speaker 2 Continues.

Speaker 4 You grew up in Illinois.

Speaker 2 I grew up in Illinois, which Midwest was traditionally more of an ACT.

Speaker 4 But this has been a point of pride for you that you didn't do a four-year degree in your country.

Speaker 2 Well, you do because I represent most of the country.

Speaker 2 Actually, still the majority of the country does not have a college degree.

Speaker 2 And if I may, you know, bluntly critique the Democrat Party, you guys have become so college-credentialed and educated that you guys snobbishly look on the muscular class of this country, the people that kept things afloat and running during COVID.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I mean, the majority of the country didn't go to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Caltech, or Cal Berkeley, right? Thank you.

Speaker 2 And the Republican Party has become far more representative of them, large in part thanks to Trump.

Speaker 2 But yeah, and look, I say it with some pride also because as an entrepreneur, I tried to build something,

Speaker 2 not just SECO credentials.

Speaker 4 Love that. And what, and there are what, 11 million folks? There are 11 million jobs out there.
You make this point all the time. Oh, Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Open jobs that don't require a college degree.

Speaker 4 But do not require a college degree.

Speaker 4 So when you say, and it's interesting, because there's sort of that critique of the Democratic Party, that we are captured by this sort of college elite.

Speaker 4 In what respect, I mean, stress test that for a second.

Speaker 4 Allow me to. What specifically are you referencing in that conversation? Well, your voters.

Speaker 2 Your voters have become nearly... I mean,

Speaker 2 the higher you go up the education ladder, the higher the correlation it is that you vote for the Democrat Party. It's almost a one-to-one with PhD.

Speaker 2 It's like 75% for master's degrees, and it's 65% for degrees.

Speaker 4 Why do you think that's the case? What are the issues that sort of are identified underline in that respect?

Speaker 2 The sloppy analysis is like, oh, they're smarter, therefore they must be Democrats.

Speaker 2 And I think that's silly and insane.

Speaker 4 And insulting.

Speaker 4 I totally agree.

Speaker 2 The deeper and more profound analysis is that a lot of ideological bubbles that exist on these college campuses, they are homogeneous, not heterodox when it comes to what ideas are expressed.

Speaker 2 And then, secondly,

Speaker 2 the value system that you leave on college campuses is high trust of institutions. So the biggest divide in America is not right versus left.

Speaker 2 It's whether or not you generally trust institutions or you don't trust institutions. And this has been largely inverted the last 20 years.

Speaker 2 So back in the early 2000s, Democrats were low trust of institutions. Iraq war, anti-Bush, anti-NSA, anti-Patriot Act.
And that's when you guys had a lot of activist spark and energy.

Speaker 2 That has been completely inverted. So the right is now low trust of institutions, where the left is high trust of institutions.
We're the ones that challenge the COVID vaccine.

Speaker 2 We're the ones that think that public health authorities might have lied to us during COVID.

Speaker 2 We're the ones that don't necessarily believe the government when it says that we should keep on sending money to Ukraine. Again,

Speaker 2 that's a general rule. There are some exceptions to that.
But when you go to college, you are trained to trust the experts, trust the scientists, trust the people that are leaders of authority.

Speaker 2 And the Democrat Party is largely the gatekeepers of that kind of ideological and intellectual regime.

Speaker 4 It's interesting.

Speaker 4 And so from your perspective, I mean, as you advocate for people to sort of open up a worldview that is life without a four-year degree and all the opportunities that present themselves anew in that respect.

Speaker 4 Are you arguing for the disestablishment, the end of higher education?

Speaker 2 I think it's going to happen no matter what. I mean, in 10 years, artificial intelligence is going to change everything.

Speaker 2 And I don't know what these four-year degrees are actually doing to prepare these kids for that. But no, as far as like, I'm not, I mean, am I advocating for the end of the pursuit of learning?

Speaker 2 Of course not. That's one of my big critiques is that at a lot of these schools, they're not pursuing what is good, true, and beautiful.

Speaker 2 It's become the oppression Olympics and a weaponized complaint seminar of people sitting in the circle and finding out

Speaker 2 who's been offended the most that day. That's not doing anybody any good.
No.

Speaker 2 And in fact, it creates a very weak political movement, which I think plays into one of the reasons why we were able to steamroll you guys back in November, is that once there's a little opposition against a group of people that have never actually been, you know, had to build the muscle mass of a very difficult and unpredictable world, whereas those of us that are conservatives, we're insulted all the time.

Speaker 2 So think about the experience of a kid on a college campus. They say they're graded differently because of their views.
They may or may not be right.

Speaker 2 I think they are, but they're definitely in the ideological minority, right? You wear a Trump hat on a college campus, at least until we came around. That was like a big sign of cultural rebellion.

Speaker 2 So, you have two choices: you can either stop fighting for what you believe in, or you become really tough.

Speaker 2 And you create that muscle that allows you to then carry and shoulder a heavier burden.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 4 And so, just, and I don't want to belabor the issues of the establishment plot called higher education, as some have not you referred to it though maybe you align yourself I wrote a whole book called the college scandal so college so so it's sort of in sort of stress testing that in the context of some would argue the con contra argument is you know a million dollars more in lifetime earnings more likely to get married less likely to get divorced more likely to be civically engaged and longer life spans with college degrees and you would say all of those is true it's just let's not everyone that goes to college graduates the national graduate 41 drop out.

Speaker 2 Yeah, 41% drop out. Exactly right.
Also, half the kids that graduate college will not even end up using their degree

Speaker 2 when it comes to the affiliated job. So the numbers are true at the highest income.
So about 10% of kids that go to college stretch out the averages to be really, really high. Got it.

Speaker 2 And so, for example, you go to Caltech to study computer engineering and applied AI, man, you're crushing it, right? You go to Cal to go study North African lesbian poetry.

Speaker 4 Is that an actual degree there?

Speaker 2 You tell me, government.

Speaker 4 I don't know. I mean, we fucked it up.
I'm not sure. That's what I'm saying.
The fact that you don't know? Well, I don't know every single damn course

Speaker 4 in the largest.

Speaker 2 But if the fact it's a maybe, we got some problems.

Speaker 4 Well, the fact that a lot of people have explored different disciplines.

Speaker 2 That's fine. It's just the taxpayer shouldn't have to fund it.

Speaker 4 Well, I mean, increasingly, the individuals are funding it, as you know, as it relates to the talk about the inversion of how we fund education. Look, I...

Speaker 4 And by the way, just FYI, having just put together a career master plan, we had a master plan in the state of California that created the UC systems, the CSUs, and the community college system half a century ago.

Speaker 4 We've applied the same discipline to a career master plan in the state of California.

Speaker 4 And so I'm completely aligned with you in terms of a focus and energy there and looking at pre-apprentice apprenticeships, looking not even at apprenticeships in the traditional sense, but valuing and highlighting and signaling the value of a life without a degree, et cetera.

Speaker 4 So I'm not as far off on this as you are. That said, I've just, I've got to admire what you've been able to do, not to weaponize, but to organize on these college campuses a different point of view.

Speaker 4 And again, let's talk about some of that. When you go to these college campuses, I love watching your TikTok, which is next level.
Clearly, that's expressed by my 13-year-old son.

Speaker 4 I want to meet this guy.

Speaker 2 He's coming to a turning point event this summer, Tampa, Florida Student Action Summit.

Speaker 4 I actually am concerned. By the way, if you...
You should be concerned. But actually, let me say,

Speaker 4 here is why I'm concerned, because you have expressed that I should be concerned as a Democrat, that we're getting

Speaker 4 clobbered. Yes.
That you've figured something out.

Speaker 2 It's not me. The president first deserves the credit.
But why?

Speaker 4 No, no, hold on. You were at this before Trump was tried.
No, I know, but he was a Democrat back in 2011.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but the president deserves huge credit. And I just have to say that as an obligatory thing, because without him, our movement would be small.
And you can appreciate that in politics.

Speaker 2 You have to appreciate the person who is the catalyst.

Speaker 4 For you, that's what you sort of attached and identified.

Speaker 2 He was also just the catalyst. It was a cultural moment that just opened us up.

Speaker 4 But go back just on that because I'm curious. In 2012, 13, 14, who were you identifying with from the moment?

Speaker 2 I mean, I was more, like, as I mentioned, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, libertarian. That's where the energy really was, right?

Speaker 2 And then President Trump comes on. Again, I was still very early in my political journey.
So you're looking up a lot. You know, who's the top voices? What do you believe? Why do you believe it? Yeah.

Speaker 4 So more of the libertarian frame.

Speaker 2 And I still have some libertarian leanings on some.

Speaker 4 And when Trump came down that escalator, you're like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Not day one. No, I was mystified at first.

Speaker 4 Why are you saying this guy's, there's no chance?

Speaker 2 No, it's funny. I actually sent out a tweet very like 2011 when I was in high school saying Trump should run for office, but I was not mystified negatively.
I was like, can this really happen?

Speaker 2 Can a guy that has no political experience come down an escalator, challenge the whole establishment? Right.

Speaker 4 But you didn't expect Donald Trump to come down the escalator and start talking about illegal aliens or, you know, romanticism. I disagree with it.

Speaker 4 I didn't see that coming.

Speaker 2 And again, this is well documented. Early in my journey, I underestimated the silent majority that really wanted a rebalancing of the American political landscape.

Speaker 4 So interesting.

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Speaker 1 So now then Gavin Newsom asked me about the impact that Turning Point Action made this last election cycle.

Speaker 1 I bragged on it a little bit, but just to reiterate, at Turning Point Action, we had over 1,000 people on the ground in Arizona, Wisconsin chasing ballots. We were registering voters.

Speaker 1 In fact, A pollster from Signal Polling showed that when we visited college campuses, students moved dramatically more in President Trump's direction versus campuses we did not. So we have two arms.

Speaker 1 We have Turning Point USA, which is our high school and our college chapter Beast, also Turning Point Academy, TPUSA Faith, Blexit, all the great work that we do on digital social media.

Speaker 1 And you guys should get involved with Turning Point USA.

Speaker 1 And then Turning Point Action, our 501c4 organization, all about how we are recruiting candidates, trying to make the Republican Party more conservative and more Republican, how we are chasing ballots.

Speaker 1 That is tpaction.com. And they kind of harmonize together towards an overarching view to save Western civilization.
Now, is Governor Newsom being authentic here? I don't think so.

Speaker 1 I think that he was just trying to bring the temperature of the conversation down. I always try to meet a guest at their frequency.
At the same time,

Speaker 1 you have to challenge that guest. You have to challenge them on what they believe and why they believe it.

Speaker 1 So this is a little bit of a conversation about how we dominated this last election cycle and what President Trump was able to do.

Speaker 1 I believe that turning point action was one of the most important outside groups. The ballots we chased, the ground game.

Speaker 1 And by the way, the media was always like, oh, Charlie Kirk is going to ruin the ground game for the right. Turns out it wasn't ruined.
Turns out that we were more successful than ever before. Watch.

Speaker 4 So Trump then became the catalyst. And so turning point became sort of next level.
You're going to start that going. You organize around that.
Turning point action becomes

Speaker 2 the political arm. So one is more educational, one is more political.
And we did ballot chasing in Arizona and Wisconsin. We were successful in that alongside the Trump campaign.

Speaker 2 Arizona was the best performing swing state.

Speaker 4 And you're not modeling yourself at anything because the flatness of the surrounding terrain, meaning we're the Democrats. Are we looking at other organizing?

Speaker 2 We were modeling off of some of the ballot chasing, ballot harvesting practices of the left.

Speaker 2 But I mean, there's, again,

Speaker 2 that's a self-limiting principle. You can't ballot chase if no one wants to vote for you.
That's right.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, you could have the best organizers in the world and you have 2,000 people chasing ballots in Arizona

Speaker 2 and you're running Kamala Harris in Arizona.

Speaker 2 What we end up tracking through our data is that the Democrats were chasing for us, is that they were chasing low-propensity Hispanics thinking that they were all for Kamala.

Speaker 2 And in fact, we were looking at the precinct numbers of areas we didn't hit that moved like 20 points in Trump's direction.

Speaker 2 We're like, well, thank you very much, Kamala campaign, for getting out and chasing our ballots. And, you know, for all this, these Hispanic men that are mechanics.
We appreciate it.

Speaker 2 Thanks for making sure that we also won Dave McCormick's Senate seat.

Speaker 2 So again, chasing is only one part of the like Democrats, of course, are better organizers than us. I mean, it's in your blood.
Barack Obama was a community organizer. We make fun of it.

Speaker 2 It's who you guys are. You guys have labor as a backbone, clipboard and tennis shoes.

Speaker 4 However, labor less and less. We can talk more about

Speaker 4 a moment.

Speaker 1 But what

Speaker 2 we always felt that we had is we felt we had better ideas and a better message and all that.

Speaker 2 The idea was, can we combo a a little bit of organizing practices with a mass movement, which is how you get a national popular vote victory and a overwhelming electoral landslide?

Speaker 4 And so, what do you just, I mean, I sort of talked about the flatness of the surrounding terrain, meaning the Democratic

Speaker 4 Party in some respect as it relates to, I appreciate your point about organizing, but also coercion

Speaker 4 versus, you know, sort of forcing people to vote versus an enthusiasm and a desire to actually proactively.

Speaker 2 That actually has a backfiring effect, too.

Speaker 4 I totally appreciate that. And so what do you see right now? I mean, you know,

Speaker 4 I think you talked about it the other day. A lot of folks were talking about that Carville article where he talked about it.
Roll over and play dead. Rollover.

Speaker 4 In essence, he said that I think it was a strategic retreat, right? That we need to come back. Trump's starting to plot.
His numbers are getting soft.

Speaker 4 This was even before the tariff issues, et cetera, and then come back and strike when hot. And

Speaker 4 immediately, nobody else thought about you, who's just 24-7, flooding the zone back to my 13-year-old, owning this space, every day getting a convert, every day picking up one, two, 10,000 folks, continuing the momentum, coming out of this damn election.

Speaker 4 And then I'm thinking about, we're going to stand back and watch you run circles around us for six months in the next two or three years, waiting for the moment to finally strike.

Speaker 4 Strike struck me as not necessarily the best advice, and it's not a knock on Carville, who I have deep respect for. What's your thoughts?

Speaker 4 So I don't have to.

Speaker 2 He's right about one thing in the last 40 years. It's economy stupid.
And boy,

Speaker 2 he spent down that one line pretty amazingly.

Speaker 2 But yeah, look, I'll say, I don't want to make this about Carville, but like, yeah, I hope you guys retreat.

Speaker 4 You kind of like more for us.

Speaker 2 I mean, there's no opposition. There's no activist spark.

Speaker 2 You guys are posting these cringe videos on social media.

Speaker 4 What are the videos? What are the ones that you're doing? I don't know. This

Speaker 2 harmonious thing of 22 senators all saying the same thing.

Speaker 4 I didn't like that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I didn't like it.

Speaker 2 Go ahead.

Speaker 4 Go do more of that. What are you doing? But what do you do? Seriously, Charlie Kirk, give us some advice.

Speaker 2 You have better ideas, Governor.

Speaker 2 For example, I mean, like, if you want to, like, you have an opportunity to, like, you know, run to the middle and see this man's office, you're talking to me of all people.

Speaker 1 So Governor Newsom then asks my advice for the Democrat Party. What you are about to see is the most viral part of our entire conversation.

Speaker 1 It's Governor Newsom that has pivoted away from the consensus on the Democrat Party on a major issue. It is an 80-20 issue against the Democrats, and it's a major debate.

Speaker 1 We believe we are on the right side of this debate, obviously. And Governor Newsom is receiving huge backlash for this very very tape.

Speaker 1 And I politely, but very firmly pushed Governor Newsom on why he would not speak out on this critically, I believe, civilizationally defining issue.

Speaker 1 Here it is, the most viral element of this entire discussion.

Speaker 2 So like you right now should come out and be like, you know what? The young man who's about to win the state championship in the long jump in female sports,

Speaker 2 that shouldn't happen. You as the governor should step out and say no.

Speaker 4 No, and I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 But like, would you do something like that? Would you say no men in female sports?

Speaker 4 Well, I think it's an issue of fairness. I completely agree with you on that.
It is an issue of fairness. It's deeply unfortunate.

Speaker 2 Would you speak out against this young man, baby Hernandez, who right now is going to win the state championship in the long term?

Speaker 2 I can see you wrestling with it.

Speaker 4 No, I'm not wrestling. I'm not wrestling with the fairness issue.
I totally agree with you. By the way, as someone with four kids, I think I'm going to be a little bit more.
Two daughters, right?

Speaker 4 Two daughters. I have a daughter, too.

Speaker 4 And a wife that went, God forbid, to Stanford and played on the junior national soccer team and a guy who got into college only because I was left-handed and could throw a baseball a little bit or hit the hit the ball for a little bit um so i i revere sports and so the issue of fairness is completely legit and i i saw that at the last couple years boy did i saw how you guys were able to weaponize that issue at another level not weaponized don't that's that's well weaponized maybe pejorative you're right but you were able to shine a light on highlight it in a way that frankly i there are not that many out we're talking about i think the nc2a what 510 000 no no but i just didn't realize it's 890 medals and trophies that we we know of in the last five years that's a lot no so i'm gonna let me step back say completely fair on the issue of fairness i completely agree so that's easy to call out the unfairness of that there's also a humility and a grace you know that that these poor people are more likely to commit suicide have anxiety and depression and the way that people talk down to vulnerable communities is an issue that I have a hard time with as well.

Speaker 4 So both things I can hold in my hand. How can we address this issue with the kind of decency that I think is inherent in you, but not always expressed on the issue? No, I get it.

Speaker 4 At the same time, deal with the uncertainty. So

Speaker 2 you asked a good faith question. Like, how do we Democrats get out of the wilderness? This one is an 80-20 issue.
New York Times poll, right?

Speaker 4 That's what I'm saying. No, I agree with you.
We're getting crushed on it.

Speaker 2 Crushed. And you have an opportunity in the state to be like, look, I have a heart for A.B.
Hernandez. I have a heart for the San Jose volleyball player.
Let's give them compassion.

Speaker 2 What's not fair is just for like a woman's entire woman's sports. I agree.

Speaker 4 By the way, I agree with you. I agree with you.
And it's interesting. I stress tested this, Charlie.

Speaker 4 I was wondering, I said, you know, in California, and I've been a leader in the LGBTQ places, as faces, you know, back in 2004, was marrying same-sex couples. And I know we have difference opinion on

Speaker 4 marriage equality.

Speaker 4 And so I've been at this for years and years. I take a bad seat to no one, but I was actually on the issue of sports, which in the last few years has just exploded,

Speaker 4 trying to understand and understand the 10 athletes in the NC2A, 510,000 athletes, but 10 athletes.

Speaker 4 But how profound. And even my own friend cohort, people saying, the hell is going on? Why aren't you calling this out? When did this happen?

Speaker 4 So in 2000, it turns out in 2014, years before I was governor, there was a law established that established the legal principles that

Speaker 4 allow trans athletes in women's sports.

Speaker 4 But the issue of fairness is completely legit. So I completely align with you.
And we've got to own that. We've got to acknowledge it.

Speaker 4 And I don't say that through the prism of politics because you disagree with same-sex marriage on principle.

Speaker 4 And so I'm not, and by the way, I value the fact that you're not trying to walk away from that principle because electorally

Speaker 4 in the minority. And I don't want to walk away from this principle because it's electoral, but it is an issue of fairness.
And I think Democrats,

Speaker 2 I think that I wish that we would have done this podcast last week.

Speaker 2 Last week? Well, because the U.S. Senate just voted, every Democrat voted against that bill.
And I'm just telling you, like, again, I'm not one to give Governor Newsome advice.

Speaker 2 You guys are giving us an 80-20 issue

Speaker 2 that is just permeating the country.

Speaker 2 And it is such an affront to our senses.

Speaker 2 And you look at these videos, Governor, because it's not just that it's, okay, you read an article about it, but these young men that are, you know, are in these sports, they're throwing around girls.

Speaker 2 And it is an issue of fairness, but it goes to a broader arch narrative,

Speaker 4 which is important. No, and this, I want to hear this.

Speaker 2 Which is this, that, that, that you, that the Democrats, you guys will tend to view an incident through an oppressor-oppressed lens. Yeah.
It's your training. It comes from college.

Speaker 2 It comes from, and we, as conservatives tend to view things through right or wrong or just or unjust.

Speaker 2 And the country is going far more in our direction and away from your direction because the problem with oppressor oppressed is eventually you run out of oppressors and you start creating them out of thin air.

Speaker 2 And you start trying to say, well, these people must to be blamed for all of our problems. Or that's where you get a lot of the,

Speaker 2 let's just say a lot of, for example, there's a Wall Street Journal editorial like, when will the white men shut up or stop complaining? That does no good for anybody, right?

Speaker 2 So, what I'm what I'm getting at, though, is it's a worldview difference, right?

Speaker 4 And so, that's why the issue is so much more powerful.

Speaker 4 Of course, it is, but it's also pattern recognition.

Speaker 2 It's pattern recognition of a Democrat party that post-2020 decided to go all in. We call it woke.

Speaker 2 You might call it, you know, justice or whatever it is, but it's so outside of what we would consider traditional American norms and customs. And again, so

Speaker 2 a Democrat strategist would say, oh, Charlie, you're weaponizing stuff, not you. But like, that's a typical thing.

Speaker 2 But the most effective ad of this election cycle, the most effective ad, you know what it is.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 4 and devastating. Trump's for you.
She's for them.

Speaker 4 Devastating. Again, devastating.
Devastating. Devastating.

Speaker 4 And she didn't even react to it, which was even more.

Speaker 2 And let's talk about why it was devastating. Number one, it was the trans issue that was just

Speaker 2 monopolizing.

Speaker 4 And this was even more challenging because there's issues of people that are incarcerated

Speaker 4 and illegal, incarcerated individuals getting taxpayer funding. Yes, and gender reassignment agents.
And that is a 90-10, not an 80-20.

Speaker 2 And then she's like enthusiastically defending it, bragging, being like, I'm all for this.

Speaker 1 So then the conversation shifted, as you're about to see, all about wokeism. Now, how do you define woke? Woke is calling something racist or unjust until you control it.

Speaker 1 I probably should have chimed that in there with this chat with Governor Newsome. I actually think I did pretty well here.

Speaker 1 We're talking about the border crisis, all of the crimes that BLM allegedly committed, also Robin D'Angelo's white fragility.

Speaker 1 In California, they are the petri dish of these very ideas. Again, I was able to get some of that into this conversation.

Speaker 1 I probably have, probably could have done an even better job of listing off one, two, three, four, five examples, but there's only so much you could prep on.

Speaker 1 We are prepped on homelessness and cost of living and cost of housing. But understand, Gavin Newsom, he is the Anthony Fauci of CRT.

Speaker 1 He is the person that has been pushing forward CRT and DEI for his entire career through California.

Speaker 1 And California is the Wuhan Institute of Virology of wokeism from the UC system, Cal Berkeley, Stanford. It all happens in California and it's being taught to kids on a daily basis.

Speaker 4 And then you had the video that was a validator. Brutal.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And so tens of millions of brutal. And then the targeted focus from

Speaker 4 the Trump campaign, next level. And then Charlemagne comes out on Breakfast Club.

Speaker 2 I was like, this is insane. And they ran it on NFL football.

Speaker 4 Brilliant.

Speaker 2 Yes. And so you're trying to reach men.

Speaker 2 It's not like it's not.

Speaker 4 It was a brilliant campaign commercial. It was brutal.
It was definitely

Speaker 4 the way we were running around just for the what the hell it's worth for you. She was AG at the time.
She was addressing the issue of a legal settlement.

Speaker 4 The courts were intervening over this topic, but she had the video where in the video she was obviously expressed support. And so

Speaker 2 she was being a cheerleader for a very unpopular thing.

Speaker 4 It was

Speaker 4 It was a great ad

Speaker 4 and I don't say that lightly. This is important for political advice.

Speaker 2 And I want to make sure it's not just that this was like the Willie Horton ad of the 2024. It wasn't just like a Lee Atwater brilliance.
It's that it reflected truth that the voters felt.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I appreciate it. And because voters felt as if their country was slipping away.
Now,

Speaker 2 the Democrats have a choice. You could say to those people, you're racist, you're Nazis, you're fascists, you're terrible.

Speaker 2 Or you can listen to them and be like, why is it that a steel worker in Pittsburgh who's voted Democrat his entire life is voting for Trump despite all of

Speaker 2 the stuff that's been thrown at him?

Speaker 4 Yeah. And all the rhetoric that he's thrown at us.
Yes, in any context. But

Speaker 2 it's a pattern, and the trans thing is just one of those things.

Speaker 2 But the second element was also what we saw under Joe Biden was if you came to the southern border from any country and you spoke the magic words, you could go to any city you're choosing, right?

Speaker 2 CBP1 border app.

Speaker 2 And all of a sudden that steel worker in pittsburgh's like why am i paying all these taxes i get it and i'm getting my i can't afford beer i can't afford anything

Speaker 4 and so i guess my question is to you look what are the democrats going to do about it so i went and let me i'm going to answer that in a second but let me just let me let me pull a four a few more threads you said 2020 is when you started to see the democrats sort of advance this notion of wokeism.

Speaker 4 It's when the awokening, the awokening really started. What was it?

Speaker 2 You know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 4 No, but so is it, yes, the Latinx stuff that, by the way, not one person ever in my office has ever used the word Latinx.

Speaker 2 So could we finally put that to bed? Yeah, but where did that even mean?

Speaker 4 No more Latinx, everybody. Well, I just didn't even know where it came from.
I'm like, what are people talking about? Was it the pronouns? By the way, once, once.

Speaker 4 You'd think California invented the frame of the prone.

Speaker 4 I mean, literally, I had one meeting where people started going around the table of pronouns. One.
There's been a hell of a lot of days between 2020 and today, and one meeting.

Speaker 4 So it's not like this is, I'm like, what the hell is, why is this the biggest issue?

Speaker 2 Well, in corporate America, it's everywhere. Okay.

Speaker 4 All right.

Speaker 2 And college campuses.

Speaker 4 It must college. That's where you reside a lot in the college campuses.
You may have defund these schools if they're doing the crony thing.

Speaker 4 Jesus. Okay.
And so, number

Speaker 4 three, what else? I mean, you started.

Speaker 4 What was also the big woke-ism thing? I mean,

Speaker 2 first of all,

Speaker 2 it wasn't just the projection of certain narratives, which we could obviously go through. But it's when policy started to come forward.

Speaker 4 And what kind of policy?

Speaker 2 Hiring practices. When it was, there was, we're not going to be able to do that.

Speaker 4 There was DEI decades ago. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 4 it was just called

Speaker 4 race and inclusion.

Speaker 2 But we saw mass adoption, what we saw. And not only that, we saw pledging of billions of dollars of donations to racial justice from the biggest types of corporations imaginable.

Speaker 4 Fair point. And that was sort of post-George Floyd.

Speaker 2 That's what I'm saying. That's when this, so you had a combustible.

Speaker 4 And was that wrong? I mean, to address the issue of racial integrity. I mean, there's legitimate issues as it relates to past practices.

Speaker 2 What was insulting to a lot of people is, number one, where's the money going? Because the top premier BLM charity ended up being a racket

Speaker 2 with Patrice Cullers, like where'd that 100 million bucks go?

Speaker 2 So all of a sudden we learned that and all these pledges of corporate dollars were going to this woman that's like hiring her like brother for personal security.

Speaker 2 And that like a lot of suspension and you would even agree like that

Speaker 2 that became the poster challenge.

Speaker 4 But number two,

Speaker 2 but number two, which I think was most important was that it was, it elevated then this scholarly community that was otherwise fringe, like Robin DiAngelo and other people.

Speaker 2 And her book, White Fragility, Fragility, literally the entire premise of her book is that white people need to stop being so fragile about race.

Speaker 2 You need to sit down and shut up and hear how racist you are. And she was brought on tours to corporations across the country.

Speaker 2 And by the way, just so you understand, this was a phenomenon over months and months. And it didn't quite catch up in time for the 2020 election.

Speaker 2 I do believe that if you guys would have been a little less insane on crime in the summer of 20, you would have completely clobbered us in November of 20.

Speaker 2 It was the riots that even made 2020 close.

Speaker 2 But then it was the extension of all of the what we would call woke stuff. Right.

Speaker 4 Defund police.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, Minneapolis literally had to hold a special vote saying, like, should we still have a police department?

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's, I mean, that's, that was lunacy. I mean, but, Governor, I want to say, by the way, by the way, you're talking to someone who's never supported the defund police.

Speaker 4 No, I'm not saying, I know, but I was explicit.

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Speaker 2 CharlieKirk.com, pre-born banner.

Speaker 1 So then I asked Governor Newsom about the Prop 16 debate and the public school debate. He was on the side of what's what's called Prop 16 in 2020, which would have had legal racial discrimination.

Speaker 1 He's like, oh, I got to go look at my notes. No, no, no, no.
You know what it is. You know what it was.

Speaker 1 You pushed this deeply unpopular, anti-white, anti-Asian, legal racial discrimination that lost at the polls. And again, AB 101 has critical race theory in the schools of California.

Speaker 1 We also talk about how the Democrats have become defenders of the corrupt establishment, FBI, EPA, critical race theory.

Speaker 4 But hold on one sec.

Speaker 2 You did support Prop Prop 16 in 2020, which would have legalized

Speaker 2 racial prejudice, right? Prop 16 literally would, and it's.

Speaker 4 I have to go back to my point of view.

Speaker 2 No, no, you're no. No, no, no.
No, no.

Speaker 4 Prop 16. I'm taught 960 SAT, so a little human.
Hold on, no, you're the governor of the largest state in the country. No, no, no.

Speaker 2 I saw your debate against DeSantis. You're good at this stuff.

Speaker 4 You know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 Prop 16 would have had legalized racial prejudice, which

Speaker 2 got defeated by 16 points despite all the institutions.

Speaker 2 So you're asking me what did wokeism look like when California, when all the institutions, yourself included, with all due respect, embraced this insane ballot measure, guess what?

Speaker 2 Even the people of California didn't want

Speaker 4 racial.

Speaker 4 But California since 1996 has had Prop 209. So the affirmative action case came for the Supreme Court as well as institutions of higher learning had no impact on California.

Speaker 4 So we've actually, it's an interesting, California also codified as a constitutional amendment marriages between a man and a woman. And that was in the 2000s.
So California runs an interesting

Speaker 2 fascinating though that despite, I mean, there was really like no opposition. It was like a couple hundred like Asian activists.

Speaker 4 Honestly,

Speaker 2 but I just want to say, you asked the question, what did wokeism look like? Prop 16 in California that would have had legalized racial discrimination.

Speaker 4 That was not a major, there was a broader

Speaker 4 question.

Speaker 2 I'm just bringing it home to you because there were hundreds of such ballot referendums, right? There was, you know, city council meetings where they said the white people aren't allowed here, right?

Speaker 4 And what that's not good. I know.
No, it's not good.

Speaker 2 And so what that ends up happening, what ends up happening is a broader question of sensible, not racist suburban moms that are like, wait a second, I have an eight-year-old white son.

Speaker 2 Are you trying to say he's a racist?

Speaker 2 And it creates a backlash

Speaker 2 that then bubbles up, right?

Speaker 4 I appreciate the perspective.

Speaker 4 And I appreciate not just the perspective. I totally appreciate what you just said.

Speaker 4 as an explicit statement of fact to make an eight-year-old feel like they're racist is absurd and outrageous.

Speaker 2 But, Governor, with all due respect, that's happening right now in California publications.

Speaker 2 And I'm not trying to drill you on. I'm just being honest.

Speaker 2 Like, you could say that, but, like, maybe you should, like, convene a special session and say, like, no more, you know, race-based teaching against white people in the schools of California or Asians.

Speaker 2 I'm just saying, though, that, like, this is not a conjecture. It's not a hypothetical.
It is embedded into the DNA of the Democrat Party. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 4 I appreciate it. I mean,

Speaker 4 the CRT stuff. Yes.
I mean, where I was trying to find it.

Speaker 4 You think we have CRT in K-12? Do you have the principles of it?

Speaker 2 I mean, of course, critical theory is like a a PhD level.

Speaker 2 It's taught by Derek Bell and Kimberly Crenshaw. But the same way that you have advanced physics and the theories of physics in eighth grade, it's like saying that you don't have to be evidence of it.

Speaker 2 But for example, I mean, it's very simple.

Speaker 4 But at least that explains why, because I'm just trying to find it.

Speaker 2 We know of over at least 50 schools in California that do things called privilege walks. Do you know what privilege walks are? What are privilege walks?

Speaker 2 Where they make kids walk ahead based on certain questions and they try to make a point saying, well, see, the white people are ahead. They must have white privilege.

Speaker 4 Okay, I get it. Yeah, no.

Speaker 4 All right, I got to get back to back into the classroom. You got to get 6 million kids.
You got to get your applications on. 1,050 school districts, the largest schools.
You've got a lot going on.

Speaker 4 I know that. No, but no excuse, because these things are important.
And by the way, it's the reason we're having this conversation.

Speaker 4 This is very illuminating and helpful to me to understand sort of the animus. What is it about, you know, that animus? I joke with people.
I said,

Speaker 4 you guys don't like DEI, CRT, ESG, DOJ, FBI, IRS.

Speaker 4 It's all the damn three-letter acronyms. What the hell is the issue? What's going on with all that?

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 you missed some.

Speaker 4 Which ones? Which others? What have I missed? EPA? Of course you can't do it. EPA, the EPA.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the Employment Prevention Agency.

Speaker 4 Oh, okay. You're about to gut that 65%.
That's what it is.

Speaker 2 So it's not just acronyms that we dislike for the record, but

Speaker 2 it's what

Speaker 4 sometimes.

Speaker 1 And now this is the second most viral part of our conversation, where Governor Newsom thought he had me bringing up book banning.

Speaker 1 I should have probably said this in the discussion, but saying that the Bible is pornographic is so insulting to faithful Christians across the country.

Speaker 1 Governor Newsom thinks, like, oh, I can get you on book banning. This is how every conservative, every Republican should talk about the banning of books.

Speaker 1 That every single conservative and Republican should talk about how the books that very well might be banned in our schools, what are they exactly?

Speaker 4 This is how you should stand up for it, for decency, for truth, and for our children how about the book ban stuff on a serious note 4200 and 4240 books or titles libraries and schools are banned in 2023 um is that not as a as a conservative well it depends i mean like i think we can both agree pornography should not be taught to nine-year-olds fair point okay so that's a book ban all right well there were some other books oh no no no no no no

Speaker 2 no that was the moms for liberty contention timeout yeah like i agree on bill o'reilly the moms for liberty movement that you made a big thing of was just no porn to 10 year olds yeah we We agree. So

Speaker 2 those books should be banned.

Speaker 2 So what we should do right now is every California school that has porn in their library should be kicked out.

Speaker 4 Does that include the Bible?

Speaker 2 Well, I wouldn't say the Song of Solomon is porn.

Speaker 4 No, but I mean, some have made that point. Is that a fair point?

Speaker 4 I don't think that's fair. And as a man of faith, and I deeply admire that about you.
Thank you. Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 But no, I mean, again, the song of Solomon is rather risque.

Speaker 4 No, it's not.

Speaker 2 But what we're talking about in these books is not just the words, it's also the images. And again, your audience can look at the images themselves.

Speaker 2 It's highly highly graphic.

Speaker 4 But again, what seems a banning binge. I mean, at next level, sort of cancel culture.

Speaker 2 But why do you think moms are doing that? Do you think it's because they want to have mind control? Or do you think that they have come across

Speaker 2 incident of incident of highly provocative material?

Speaker 4 I love moms, but this mom's, I mean, we don't have to get into moms for liberty. It seems like you brought up the book banana deeply organized for a larger agenda, but that's my humble opinion.

Speaker 2 No, but I, but for example, but let me just, you know, kind of complete the point is that it's easy to just call it kind of a book ban, but when you actually have to read some of these books, it will take your breath away of some of this stuff, right?

Speaker 2 You're like, okay, you know, we're teaching a 10-year-old.

Speaker 4 I'm going to put a condom on. I know, I just have a problem with, you know, who the hell is going to decide that? Government? I mean, Duran DeSantis is going to decide what I can read or say.

Speaker 4 I mean, in the boardroom already.

Speaker 2 This is the exercise of politics, though. The exercise of politics is the highest form of community because it blends morality and sociability.

Speaker 2 So what we do is we have discussion and elections and we have boards and commissions, right? And we as a people say, okay, no porn for 10-year-olds. And that's politics, right?

Speaker 4 I mean, I'm not saying that there's some sort of

Speaker 4 stress test whether the Bible's included in that. I don't even want to go forward anymore with this.
No, it's tough, but this is

Speaker 4 a dialectic. I have heard a lot.

Speaker 2 I've never heard. That's interesting, though.

Speaker 4 No, I mean,

Speaker 4 it's a pornography. I don't think I don't take offense.
I don't think again. I deeply don't mean offend.
By the way, Father Cause would be offended.

Speaker 2 If you think the Bible's pornographic,

Speaker 4 most of these books are quote-unquote not pornographic. There's sections that

Speaker 4 can offend.

Speaker 2 Of images that are very violating to young people.

Speaker 4 If somebody would agree on that,

Speaker 2 if you want to learn, Governor, and I'm happy that there is a movement of moms that is not, that's growing where they feel as if our kids are being hypersexualized.

Speaker 2 And I agree with them that they are being, that they have to hear topics.

Speaker 4 Social media.

Speaker 2 Well, both in the social media and the classroom.

Speaker 1 And then Governor Newsom talks all about this

Speaker 1 assembly bill. about the most radical elements in our country when it comes to parental notification and kids' well-being and child's children's well-being.

Speaker 2 You signed a law where school districts can't even tell parents if their kids are trans. That's true.

Speaker 4 Okay, then true. Okay, then no, they can.
They just can't get fired for not doing that. And it wasn't just trans.

Speaker 4 The law was explicit, said you can't be fired for not snitching on a kid, not just for being trans, for being gay. And my point is, how in the hell

Speaker 4 parents know? They have everybody. But by telling parents snitching? No,

Speaker 4 the teachers themselves have the right. The law is they can do that.
They can do that. We're not saying you can't do that.

Speaker 4 We're saying you shouldn't be fired if you choose not to say Johnny was talking about

Speaker 4 liking some other boy. It's not charitable reading.
It's not charitable. It's actual.
But freedom not to teach you.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you the other way to say this. That a teacher, of course, should be fired if you don't notify a parent of what's happening to their kid.

Speaker 2 Of course they should be terminated for that.

Speaker 4 On health and safety. Since they've been teaching,

Speaker 4 I want these teachers to teach. And by the way, if they feel like the health or safety of their kid, they have a responsibility to communicate.
They still can't.

Speaker 4 By the way, we're not selling these teachers they can't. We're saying they won't be fired if they don't look around and say in the recess, there were two boys.
Why didn't you see that? You're fired.

Speaker 4 You should have said something because they're talking about two different things.

Speaker 2 But there, of course, should be a penalty measure, whether it be termination or whatever, if a teacher withholds information from a parent.

Speaker 2 Because what you're saying is that there's no way to hold them accountable. So you're saying you're accountable to what though?

Speaker 4 Accountable to two kids talking about the fact that

Speaker 4 talking about subject matter, all of a sudden now we have to have teachers policing

Speaker 4 speech or conversation.

Speaker 2 I think you would even agree, Governor, that is an over-extreme example. What we're talking about is that...

Speaker 4 No, but it's but the extreme example. This was a solution.

Speaker 2 What we're talking about is if, which happens a lot, unfortunately, is if a young girl says that, hey, I want to transition.

Speaker 2 and the teacher accommodates and affirms it and the parent doesn't even know.

Speaker 4 I have met parents like that in in a hurry Trump and then they come back and they're

Speaker 4 there's so much extreme

Speaker 2 and we don't have to, you know, we don't have to wrestle too much on this topic, but you guys will lose on these topics.

Speaker 4 And you may disagree, but again, but I'm one of those guys, and Charlie, I appreciate, and I, by the way, appreciate the civility in which we're engaged in this conversation sincerely.

Speaker 4 I don't mind losing. Sometimes you lose on principle.
It's one of those things, everything's not political is the point.

Speaker 4 And sometimes the principle, and by the way, mad respect for you, abortion, and same-sex marriage.

Speaker 2 You feel the American people don't agree with me.

Speaker 4 Exactly. And I admire that on principle.
But for me, it's not just political. And I appreciate you making that point.
I deeply am mindful of the politics of this, which are very unhelpful.

Speaker 4 Personally, it's unhelpful more broadly, professionally, the Democratic Party and our brand. And one of the reasons, to your point, the Democratic Party brand has just been crushed.

Speaker 2 Your self-awareness

Speaker 2 is helpful to know because it is deeply unpopular. And I think that that is an ascendant political force

Speaker 2 that is not going away.

Speaker 4 No, I appreciate it, but I also appreciate you hold deeply unpopular beliefs.

Speaker 2 Of course, I do, but I do. But you're not running for office.
I'm not going to run for president as a moderate.

Speaker 4 What are you, what are you, when are you running for office? I saw you running for anything. I saw a poll in Arizona that you were like one or two.
You have the highest name ID and a favorability.

Speaker 4 When are you running?

Speaker 4 Is that what this is all about? No, it's definitely.

Speaker 4 You're not even old enough to be president. You're only 31 years old.
You got to be.

Speaker 4 I mean, you are not running for anything. You're going to run against AOC.

Speaker 2 I'm running for head of, you know, most popular TikToker.

Speaker 2 But no, I'm not running for anything.

Speaker 1 So then, Governor Newsom asked me about running for office. I'm not running for office.
Do you guys think I should run for office?

Speaker 1 You guys should put in the comments of whether or not you guys think I should run for office.

Speaker 1 I think I'm more effective doing what I'm doing here, reaching millions of people, starting a massive movement, running Turning Point USA. So go in the comments and let me know what you think.

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Speaker 4 By the way, should we ban TikTok?

Speaker 2 Are you no, we should not. I used to say that, and then I started.
Why did you change your position?

Speaker 4 Because no political meeting or Trump told you to.

Speaker 2 Well, no, it definitely was not. Trump, I sent out a tweet, and I'm perfectly honest about this.
I think you'd respect this: is that I was so mad at them because they would ban me all the time.

Speaker 2 And I sent out a tweet saying, Hey, if you guys are really for free speech as a creator, like, let's see it. Get a call from TikTok a couple hours later.

Speaker 2 We're going to show you that we're for free speech. We're going to show you the power of the platform.

Speaker 2 And I saw real changes where our campus interactions went from being banned to now well over two and a half billion views on TikTok. And so I wouldn't say expedient, I'd say impact.

Speaker 2 And also, they now have changed some of their speech codes. They've changed some of their,

Speaker 4 you can, you, you, hey, enough for your son. Your son finds my content somehow.

Speaker 4 Look, I use TikTok. I was just out there.
I wasn't out there trying to jump in the bands. It's a reverse.
It's a conversion. It's a hell of a conversion.
Hey,

Speaker 2 I'm open about it.

Speaker 4 I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 And then French laundry comes up. There's a major platform difference between Democrats and Republicans.
Long-form media versus legacy media.

Speaker 1 Politics is now culture, and we dominate the new media landscape. I do not think Democrats are able to exist in a long-form podcasting environment.
They can't defend their ideas.

Speaker 1 As soon as you turn off the teleprompter, they freak out. We are ascendant.

Speaker 1 Those of us that believe in America, believe in freedom, believe in liberty, believe in borders, want a strong country, want men to be men and women to be women.

Speaker 1 We are the dominant political force because we could defend our ideas without someone whispering in our ear, giving us prepared notes.

Speaker 1 And Governor Newsom seemed a little uncomfortable throughout this.

Speaker 4 So what's just back to the Democratic Party? We talk about just, we're not aligned with them. They don't trust us.
I think we have 31% favorability, 57% on favorability. Why is it that high, Governor?

Speaker 4 And by the way, 31% favorability is not good enough. So, I mean,

Speaker 4 back to just the basics. So you talked about woke-ism broadly defined.
We talked about some specific examples of that.

Speaker 4 You began on transport, which is interesting, and I respect and appreciate.

Speaker 2 I want you to speak out against that one, Governor. No, I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 We just did with all of you. I mean, and I've been, by the way, I've been saying that.
It's so interesting

Speaker 4 gets picked up. And that maybe goes to the question.

Speaker 4 We live in these filter bubbles. We're talking to ourselves.

Speaker 4 We're in these sort of, you know, it's Newsmax, One American News, Fox, and then it gets into all the stuff that you guys are doing and everybody else.

Speaker 4 And meanwhile, I'm safe over here at MSNBC and CNN, reading the New York Times, feeling really great about things and having a nice glass of Chardonnay, listening to Rachel Maddow, self-medicating and just going, yes, the French laundry of the family.

Speaker 4 Yeah, the French, that's, of course, the only place I eat. And you get me a ticket.
Great takeout and the whole thing. Well, I should have been at Applebee's.
I get it. Applebee's America.
I read the.

Speaker 4 In an Outberger, be with the French people. And here's a guy who makes 25 times more money than I do.

Speaker 4 And sitting here with a jacket, and I'm sitting here with a

Speaker 2 fifth largest economy on the planet.

Speaker 4 Well, we don't control. The people control the fifth largest economy.
And by the way, proud that you know it's a 3.2%.

Speaker 4 No population went up last year. Population went up last year.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because of the illegal border. We'll talk about that later.

Speaker 4 I got a whole thing on that. That's just factually untrue.

Speaker 2 And that's 290,000 networks.

Speaker 4 394 National Guard that I put down at the border six years ago. You should be championing that as governor of California.
394 we have down at the border. We've been focused on fentanyl.

Speaker 4 I've been working on fentennials.

Speaker 2 Anyway, you're getting somewhere complimentary.

Speaker 4 That's state. No, yeah, I was.
Going back to.

Speaker 2 You're talking about your wining and dining at French Laundry.

Speaker 4 Yes, I was talking about the importance of

Speaker 4 never.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 I can't help you with a reservation. I get such a good idea.
I've been under this whole shtick. I got to be on this.
This is very nice.

Speaker 4 By the way, we couldn't have this conversation with that conversation. Dumbest bonehead move my life.
Okay. Own it, move on, grow up.

Speaker 4 And I'm trying to.

Speaker 2 Is that you talking to yourself?

Speaker 4 I'm trying to be talking to myself.

Speaker 4 I'm staring. I'm looking right at you in the eyes as I say that, just to get your reaction.
That said,

Speaker 4 we're losing.

Speaker 4 I feel it's

Speaker 4 asymmetry of Donald Trump and Elon Musk sitting on tweets or you doing social media and me doing a three-minute hit at 3 o'clock in the afternoon on CNN. I mean, how the hell will we compete?

Speaker 4 We're toast.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, part of it, and credit to you for doing long-form podcasting, because long-form podcasting does penetrate different audiences, right? And our show does very well.

Speaker 2 But part of the problem of the Democrat Party that for the health of the country would be great to change is that Democrats cannot survive in long-form podcasting environments. It's too unscripted.

Speaker 2 It's too masculine, honestly. And the Democrat Party's being aware of the problem.

Speaker 4 When you're masculine about a podcast, honestly, because I get the whole manosphere that's broke, to go into the wilderness with no rules and duel it out and see who's better or who's stronger.

Speaker 4 No, seriously. I mean, like, what's what? No, I mean, like, we don't do it.
You're right. For whatever reason, don't do it.

Speaker 2 You can laugh, but like, who in the Democrat Party

Speaker 4 will go?

Speaker 2 I mean, maybe Bernie Sanders, but he only worked like a kid when he was a Democrat.

Speaker 2 bobby who's now hhs but like there's something to be said that if you want to earn the respect of forgotten america you have to show them that you can intellectually joust with no script no hard breaks no producers in the ears no teleprompters that's where new media is going now i will i'll only challenge one thing you say i am reaching new audiences i'm not talking to my my bubble because our content is so appealing it goes in a decentralized way and it's not just political no it's not political but like again our conversation here is going to go far and wide, right?

Speaker 2 A lot of people are going to see it. A lot of people are going to consume it because it's also politics and entertainment have begun to overlap.
Right.

Speaker 2 And the old adage is, well, politics is downstream from culture. I think politics and culture are indecipherable from one another now.
Donald Trump became a cultural phenomenon, right?

Speaker 2 You go into, you know, inner city Compton, you'll see guys with Trump shirts with, you know, the hand up, you know, fight, fight, fight.

Speaker 2 So what Democrats are doing is you're still playing in a very old, hypersanitized media environment.

Speaker 2 And my advice is you got to go where it's unpredictable, where it's treacherous, where it's dangerous.

Speaker 2 Now, I would make a more provocative argument that you wouldn't necessarily resonate with, which is that

Speaker 2 you guys have not built the intellectual muscle over 30 years because you all agree with each other all the time.

Speaker 4 Well, it's not like conservatives are massively disagreeing.

Speaker 4 And Trump has completely collapsed the conservative.

Speaker 2 I would push back a little bit. I would disagree.
We have a robust discussion.

Speaker 4 It seems like Congress is really doing great oversight of Trump right now.

Speaker 4 They're holding him to account.

Speaker 2 That's an important but separate issue.

Speaker 2 I just want to finish the point when we could talk about Congress, which is that in the Republican Party, we have immense and vocal and public spats all the time. I think you would agree.

Speaker 2 We fight about foreign policy. Look at Ukraine, right? We're talking about primary challenging some of these senators that were meeting Zelensky last week.
The Democrat Party would never do that.

Speaker 2 Now, I think that is a symptom of an underlying thing.

Speaker 2 We're constantly trying to find the approximation of what truth is. We're trying to use dialogue towards, hey, who's right? What do you believe? Why do you believe it?

Speaker 2 And it's by no coincidence that out of the long-form podcasting genres,

Speaker 2 the top 10, eight of them are conservative or center-right. Rogan, Megan Kelly, Theo Vaughn, the Paul brothers, our program, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh.

Speaker 2 There's a singular one on the left, which is Pod Save America, which is just like a bunch of Obama bros agreeing with each other for 90 minutes and saying that we're not very smart.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and so anyway, but I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 No, but objective truth, right? I mean, you just dominate this media. I mean, it's medium.

Speaker 1 But what, so what, I mean, everything Democrats do and everything how Democrats operate is from the mindset of oppressor versus oppressed, not what is fair or just.

Speaker 1 You see, we as conservatives talk about what is right or wrong, not just who the biggest victim is.

Speaker 1 Every way the Democrats look at issues, and you can see see Gavin Newsom has been programmed to believe this throughout his life, is to look at where is the victim in the situation.

Speaker 1 We look at what is moral or immoral, right or wrong, fair or unfair, just or unjust. We then talk about how I do not drink.

Speaker 1 He seemed very surprised by this, considering he owns a very nice vineyard in Napa Valley. As you can see, I kind of slipped that in there.
He asks what Democrats I like.

Speaker 1 I want you to guess before you watch this how I answer what Democrats I actually like.

Speaker 1 But there is this unhealthy purification process that Democrats go through where they kick any non-believers out of their ranks. Democrats are pushing people out of their own party.

Speaker 1 And we are far more ideologically healthy and diverse than the Democrat Party. You see, for us and in our party, we believe the best ideas win.
Democrats believe the most oppressed wins.

Speaker 1 And what I should have probably brought up, and looking back hindsight, again, I thought I did pretty well, but looking back, I should have said, Governor, you guys had to nominate Kamala Harris under these rules.

Speaker 1 You could not jump over Kamala Harris because she was a black woman. Since she was a black woman, you were not able to jump over her.
Otherwise, they could have got to a better candidate.

Speaker 1 And deep down, I think Gavin Newsom knows that he has no place in the Democrat Party as a white man. Deep down, they hate him.
His whole party is configured against him.

Speaker 4 But it's interesting, you're making a deeper argument that we're not, and you didn't say it again

Speaker 4 in a maligning way, but that we're just not capable because we're not hardwired. Well, I think it's too

Speaker 4 able to participate in that.

Speaker 2 Well, I think that it's two things. Number one, your upbringing in college campuses does not foster debate like it used to.
It just doesn't.

Speaker 2 It's that it's about silencing the critic and the elevation of the victim. So you do not have the practice of robust having to defend your position.
It's very monolithic. It's very centralized.

Speaker 2 It's very top-down. It's quasi-authoritarian.

Speaker 2 And then, secondly, I would just say that the philosophy on the worldview, as I mentioned earlier, that you guys have adopted is that thou which is oppressed will get the most points.

Speaker 2 You guys don't have thou that has the best idea wins.

Speaker 2 And because of that, you guys have an elevation of like, hey, we're going to eventually we're just going to have a small subset of a minoritarian, hectoring hall monitor assistant principal vibe of people telling you that you're not allowed to say these words and you can't say that.

Speaker 2 And we call that political correctness, which in and of itself is hyper-authoritarian.

Speaker 2 So if you seek to understand why young men are rebelling, it's like, no, I'm not going to go along with this anymore.

Speaker 2 Like maybe I'm going to say, for an example, maybe I'm going to send out a stupid tweet when I'm 17 years old.

Speaker 2 When I'm 26, I shouldn't have to get fired because of that, right?

Speaker 4 100%. I've never liked this, Canceco.
I mean, I'm glad to hear you say that. I remember back when I was a lieutenant governor, I think Bill Maher was trying to get on the UC campus or something.

Speaker 4 They were saying Bill Maher was too conservative a voice. and we called that out at the time.
It completely said, but it's equally insane that people are boycotting Bud Light.

Speaker 2 I mean, how is that not called out? Because I don't drink, but yeah, I mean, like. Well, you don't drink at all?

Speaker 4 I mean, no. By the way, I'm just, that's interesting.
Yeah. You don't? No.
Never have? I have, yeah, a couple years ago. What happened? What, a couple of years ago, you stopped?

Speaker 4 Okay. Why'd you stop?

Speaker 2 I just wanted to be more successful.

Speaker 4 I love that. What were you drinking?

Speaker 2 Napa Valley wine.

Speaker 4 Oh, Jesus Christ. Here we go.
Right. Are we going to get it? He was my Lord and Savior in vain.

Speaker 4 By the way, forgive me.

Speaker 4 I deeply respect. And by the way, due respect you're serving.
It's like the fourth time.

Speaker 2 I mean, come on.

Speaker 2 No, no, I don't drink. But yeah, I mean, look, but first of all, we have the agency to boycott whatever we want, but understandable.

Speaker 4 No, but I mean, in that cancel culture in reverse, I mean, a lot of cancel culture. Hold on, let's do something completely different.

Speaker 2 First of all, cancel culture is someone in power using their power to cancel somebody that doesn't have power. That's cancel culture.

Speaker 2 Time out. Hold on.
Well, Bud Light was people that don't have a lot of power, consumers, using their agency to say, no, powerful corporation, I'm not going to voluntarily associate with you.

Speaker 2 Cancel culture has always been the incumbent person with power, a governor, a principal, a boss, a CEO, a corporate board, going against the weaker.

Speaker 2 What we did with Bud Light was just a bunch of decentralized folks doing a good old-fashioned boycott.

Speaker 4 Completely different. But a boycott, a boycott is not, I mean, well, there's boycotting speakers.
There's boycotting that isn't the derivative of cancel culture.

Speaker 2 But the culmination of cancel culture is somebody who has a power position wrongly canceling violence.

Speaker 4 So let's go back to Democrats being totally incompetent, incapable of spending 30, let alone 45 to an hour

Speaker 4 having a conversation broadly on podcasts. You said

Speaker 2 you're becoming the exception.

Speaker 4 In the process of becoming

Speaker 4 Michelle, right?

Speaker 4 But so what, I mean, who do you, are the Democrats you do, forget, literally, any Democrats you admire out there right now?

Speaker 4 I mean, even beyond just the podcast thing, that you look and say, Jesus, there's hope. Got to stop saying that.

Speaker 4 Forgive me. There's hope.

Speaker 4 We can edit that out.

Speaker 2 No, I don't care. You can keep it in.

Speaker 2 I used to have respect for Bernie on his anti-war stance, and now he's a complete neocon. I was going to ask you about Bernie.
He's a complete neocon now, so he's not there.

Speaker 2 Democrats, I respect.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah, I mean, Bobby Kennedy, I respect. Tulsi Gabbard.

Speaker 4 Why are you laughing? Why are you smiling? Because they're on our team now because you guys kicked out your best people.

Speaker 4 It's like the people that were into.

Speaker 2 This is a great point, though, Governor. It is.

Speaker 2 Bobby Kennedy was a heterodox opinion on a thing that a lot of people are concerned about. Get him out.

Speaker 4 He's an anti-vaxxer.

Speaker 2 Tulsi Gabbard, who is an anti-war, get her out. She's a Russian agent.

Speaker 2 Do you guys see how you have an unhealthy purification process where eventually you're left with just a 31% approval rating and a bunch of people that are talking to each other?

Speaker 2 And meanwhile, we're the ones that have Democrats in our cabinet winning the electoral majority vote because there needs to be said

Speaker 2 If Democrats are serious about being a majority party ever again, when somebody has a disagreement, For example, if there's a pro-life Democrat, is there a place for a pro-life Democrat in the Democrat Party?

Speaker 2 I mean, there should be.

Speaker 4 Okay, that's. On principle, there should be.
Absolutely.

Speaker 4 That's a deeply held personal point of view. God bless.
I agree.

Speaker 2 Not every party or Democrat official would say that, right? And so certain states have different opinions on that.

Speaker 4 And I say this is one of the biggest champions for reproduction

Speaker 2 on the planet. Trust me, I know.

Speaker 4 That I know.

Speaker 2 But like,

Speaker 2 the issue, though, is that

Speaker 2 that is a one-stop purity test. Like, we have pro-choice Republicans.
There was a system sister.

Speaker 4 No, and Trump himself decided to pivot a little bit.

Speaker 2 He's more pro-choice than I am, like, for sure.

Speaker 2 But what I'm saying, though, is what you see in the Republican Party is the best, in my opinion, culmination of modern politics and doesn't get appreciated. Look at that ideological diversity.

Speaker 2 We have people that, you know, geez, they want to go to war with every country that says something bad against us. And then we have people that are far more dovish, you know, like Rand Paul.

Speaker 2 But that is a better, more, dare I say, diverse picture. You could say diversity is our strength.

Speaker 4 Oh, look at you. Look at Charlie Kirk.
Diversity is strength. I mean, I want to end the podcast right there, but first, I said you could say.
You could say.

Speaker 4 Do we have ultimate editing here? I'm going to.

Speaker 2 No, you better not edit anything.

Speaker 4 We're not going to edit any of this.

Speaker 4 And by the way,

Speaker 4 no reason to edit any of this, despite my use of inappropriate words here and there.

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Speaker 1 Here's the final advice that I gave to Gavin Newsome. Not my best advice, as you'll see.
I only gave him my B or C advice. I asked him if he's working with ICE.
This is just so fraudulent, by the way.

Speaker 1 I probably should have called this out even more. It's just so nonsensical.
He's not doing anything on the southern border. He's not assisting with detainers.

Speaker 1 There were 7,000 people in California that had ICE detainers on them that were not touched at all. Also talking about the quality of life.

Speaker 1 Everyone here in this audience, your quality of life has slipped dramatically in recent years. Thanks to big government Democrats, just like Gavin Newsom.

Speaker 1 Thanks to the one-party rule of states like California. California has the highest housing prices, the most homelessness,

Speaker 1 well, the second highest housing prices, the highest cost of living.

Speaker 1 And what are they doing about it? Blaming Republicans? The quality of life has slipped dramatically in the great state of California.

Speaker 1 And Gavin Newsom is solely responsible for the downfall of San Francisco and the downfall of California.

Speaker 4 Let me ask you just on the Democratic Party side, forgive me. I do want to just look.

Speaker 4 So our effort to get out of the wilderness, you know, on the woke culture wars, on some of these issues, on providing a more diverse

Speaker 4 campus, dare I say, of opinion and pulling people in.

Speaker 4 But what else do you, I mean, do you feel this party, I mean, you point that the Republican Party is now going to be the dominant and Senate party.

Speaker 2 I don't have that kind of pride. I'm not saying, I'm saying right now we are the ascendant worldview, but we could screw this up easily.

Speaker 2 You have to have the humility to say that, but like as of the recording of this podcast, we have have a majority approval rating, won the electoral, I mean, all that stuff.

Speaker 4 Right. And in both houses, I mean, they tend to be a little bit more.
But we could screw it up.

Speaker 2 And you guys could adjust or adapt.

Speaker 4 Okay, so

Speaker 4 this was the question that I'm not articulating very effectively. But I remember so many of the similar contours of this conversation we were having in 2004 and 2005.

Speaker 4 We just got shellacked both houses of Congress. The Republicans, you had a Republican president that won the popular vote, the last Republican president to win the popular vote.

Speaker 4 And two years later, you had Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Four years later, you had 53% of the vote, the highest since 1935.
It's conceivable.

Speaker 2 I don't say that's impossible.

Speaker 4 So what if you were in my camp?

Speaker 4 What is. I'm not going to give you my best advice.

Speaker 2 I'll give you like the B or C level.

Speaker 4 Okay, give me the B plus level.

Speaker 2 Sorry, because the secret stuff, I'm not sure. No,

Speaker 4 what is your secret stuff? Why don't we go right to that? That's secret for real. What is it? Is it technical or is it substance?

Speaker 2 Oh, it's all that I could design your presidential run in a way that I'm not going to talk about.

Speaker 4 I'm not talking about a president. We're not going to talk about presidential.
This is not about that. No, no, no.

Speaker 4 you guys are so obsessed with the idea that every goddamn thing i do don't i said it again

Speaker 4 yeah i said it again because i needed your emotional reaction that everything i do has it is framed in that context it's it's a talk about you trump derangement syndrome i think you got one with no with california

Speaker 2 first of all it's not it's not new to have someone from california run for the presidency we just beat someone from the presidency california is

Speaker 2 california is the politics to the democrat party as florida as our party you guys have the speaker the former former speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi, right?

Speaker 2 You have a lot of the ascendant political voices come out of the state. So it's not derangement syndrome.
It's no, it's knowing your enemy and looking at the horizon and understanding what's coming.

Speaker 2 But anyway, if I were to give you

Speaker 4 somebody else, only the BNC level stuff, which is good plus, you have to go to war with your own party on three major things.

Speaker 2 You got to say, we are not going to do this illegal immigration thing anymore, which includes, like, are you going to work with ICE?

Speaker 4 We do work with ICE.

Speaker 4 So let me, by the way, I want to make sure that we're going to be able to do that.

Speaker 4 We have been, I, in fact, directly, we actually put out the data.

Speaker 4 I actually reached out to the administration saying, are you not aware that California coordinates and cooperates with all CDCR releases over 10 years?

Speaker 4 Explain the sanctuary state thing, then.

Speaker 4 You've got the statewide sanctuary state, and you have to be able to do that. Which government

Speaker 4 is not you. Yeah, which in the statewide framework allows us to work as it relates to issues of criminals and coordinating the release of criminals from our federal or from our state

Speaker 4 prison system. We coordinate with ICE on the deportation.
We've done that over 10,000 times since I've been governor. We're not denying access.
We're not denying coordination.

Speaker 4 I'm glad to hear that. That's why I asked.
For criminals. Sanctuary policy was never.

Speaker 2 I would say if you break into the country illegally, 8 USC 1325 is a breaking of

Speaker 4 civil, not criminal.

Speaker 2 But it is a federal law.

Speaker 4 I get it.

Speaker 2 But I'm saying, so by the way, if you're serious about moderating the party, 8 USC 1325, vast majority of Americans.

Speaker 4 Can we just go through? No, no.

Speaker 2 Vast majority of Americans want mass deportations. It's just the thing.

Speaker 4 Until they don't. Well, okay.
That's my humble opinion. Until they don't.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 4 you might be right. I'm paying taxes.
I don't buy it.

Speaker 1 But at the moment, you're right.

Speaker 4 You might be right. The numbers bear it up.
We'll see.

Speaker 2 Number two, we mentioned the trans stuff. It's an affront to all of our senses.
It's out of control.

Speaker 4 You don't believe in it fundamentally. It's not just sports.
It's not style. You just don't.
I mean, again,

Speaker 2 Charlie Kirk's views are separate than the political or political views.

Speaker 4 But if you'd like me to, we should do a whole

Speaker 2 Charlie Kirk ask me anything, and you can show up to Cal State North Carolina on Thursday.

Speaker 4 I've got 25 TikToks of what your feelings are. So actually, that was a question.

Speaker 4 A question I didn't need to ask.

Speaker 2 If you want it, it's fine. I just don't think that's the best use of our time.

Speaker 2 But on the political advice is that Americans increasingly believe that their good-heartedness and charitable nature towards the LGBT issue has gone overblown, especially with youth sports, youth curriculum, and the chemical castration of our kids when it comes to this medical therapy.

Speaker 2 And you seem that you want to really, I encourage you, Governor, to learn about some of the butchery under the guise of health care that is happening under chemical castration in this state and in other states.

Speaker 2 We don't spend a lot of time on that, but the American people are overwhelmingly against it.

Speaker 4 They're overwhelmingly against it. No,

Speaker 4 I think we have to be more sensitized to that.

Speaker 2 Youth should be off limits. I think that's the political direction things are going.
You might be right on deportations. I know I'm right on this.
I know that this issue is picking up steam.

Speaker 2 There is no good counter to it. The CAS report, the United Kingdom CAS report, the NHS came out and said there's no good reason to ever ever operate surgically on a young person.

Speaker 2 Kuberty's not the problem. Kuberty's the solution.

Speaker 4 I encourage you. I'm not an expert in this, but I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 Nor am I, but I'm saying politically, it's a soup turbocharged issue that is kicking the tail of Democrats. The third one, though, is quality of life.
Is quality of life.

Speaker 4 I agree with you on this one.

Speaker 2 But like, I mean, look,

Speaker 4 I know this

Speaker 4 encampment is out of control, unacceptable. Yes, issues of just quality of life.
That's right.

Speaker 2 You know where I'm going with this. Why is it you were able to clean it up for Xi Ji Ping?

Speaker 4 Oh, you can't clean it up.

Speaker 4 That was the dumbest thing I've ever heard about. By the way, you guys weaponized that.
I saw that on 25 things.

Speaker 4 That was, you know what? I will happily, happily revert back to your

Speaker 4 streets as statements. Weaponized.

Speaker 4 In this case, weaponized. Can I have a case? In this case,

Speaker 4 I guess the Xi Ji Ping streets ridiculous. Give me a break.

Speaker 2 Governor. Give me a break.

Speaker 4 With all due respect.

Speaker 2 I saw a beautiful picture of San Francisco that looked like Singapore. By the way, and then Xi Ji Ping leaves, and The Walking Dead come in.

Speaker 4 By the way, it was APAC, you had dozens and dozens of foreign leaders.

Speaker 4 And California is not San Francisco, but I am the governor of California, not the mayor of California, not the mayor of San Francisco. You were the mayor, but I just want to understand that.

Speaker 4 If I was the mayor, we have to clean it up.

Speaker 2 But you have to admit, it's emblematic of something that if enough important people show up, it can get clean. So why not make it clean all the time?

Speaker 4 That's exactly my, by the way, that's my energy. I think you've missed a lot of my press conferences.
I've been saying that to all these mayors.

Speaker 4 State vision is realized at the local level. It's about accountability, transparency.
If you can't clean up the streets, we're going to redirect the money.

Speaker 2 He seems to be more moderate.

Speaker 4 Great progress is being made. By the way, what's going on with homelessness in all these red states? You're seeing it through the roof.
It went up 18% across the country.

Speaker 2 I'm not here defending every red state or whatever.

Speaker 4 No, but I'm making the point. This is hardly.

Speaker 4 I'm sure there's a lot of governors and mayors.

Speaker 2 Quality life's huge, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the housing crisis, of course, came up. What are we going to do to help young people buy more homes? Do we actually agree on something?

Speaker 1 This actually was the few moments where we agreed on something. Gavin Newsom and I find common ground.

Speaker 2 And then, like, look, the number one thing, which I know you're going to agree with, and I'm sure sure you'll have a super slick response, right? That's

Speaker 4 about half true.

Speaker 2 But, which is

Speaker 2 the cost of housing. Average home in California, $850,000.

Speaker 4 I like what you said about BlackRock.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, I mean, I...

Speaker 4 But that was interesting to me.

Speaker 2 I think that is, but again, that's not a majority of house purchasing. About one in four houses are bought by private equity.

Speaker 2 Would you agree to say that BlackRock should not be able to own homes in California?

Speaker 4 I think, and then turning around and renting. It's insane, right? This is a huge problem.
You just propose a bill in the California state house. We've had one.

Speaker 4 It didn't get very very far last year, and there's more conversations around that.

Speaker 2 A $10 trillion fund shouldn't be able to come in.

Speaker 4 It's not just BlackRock specifically. I mean, what's happening in this space?

Speaker 2 Mass asset managers that have

Speaker 2 $50 billion asset under management are now competing against our college grad from

Speaker 4 Cal State Fullerton. I love that you say this.
By the way, just in that spirit, don't you agree one of the Doge things should be dealing with a $1.5 billion of subsidies on carried interest?

Speaker 2 Oh, carried interest, I think, is a huge problem. And by the way, you know, President Trump has proposed in his tax bill that we're going to be doing.
He really it.

Speaker 2 I mean, Joe Biden didn't get rid of carried interest.

Speaker 4 That is the holy grail of private equity.

Speaker 2 You know that.

Speaker 4 Carried interest.

Speaker 2 I mean, I get it.

Speaker 4 But let's go back to housing.

Speaker 2 And by the way, you're going to have a revolt in Palo Alto if you get rid of carried interest.

Speaker 4 They're going to light torches and

Speaker 2 run to Sacramento.

Speaker 4 On the issue of housing, you couldn't be more right. It's the original sin in the state of California, affordability, period, full stop.

Speaker 4 And it has more impact on the issue of homelessness than any other issue because of the cost of living. By the way, we had 188,000 people in 2005, 20 years ago, on the streets and homeless in

Speaker 4 our point in time count. So this is hardly unique.

Speaker 2 No problem. So I'm not saying it's unique.

Speaker 4 Help me understand a long-term issue. And housing is at the core of the correct.

Speaker 2 We agree on the problem, but help me understand this. You guys control the House, the Senate, with suit majorities.
You control everything. Why can't you fix it?

Speaker 2 You said you were going to build 3.5 million homes. You're building like 111,000 homes.

Speaker 4 Well, there was something called a pandemic that may have had a little impact. Issues of interest rates may have had a little impact on housing production across the country.

Speaker 2 It's outpacing every other city.

Speaker 4 But hold on, hold on. Except for 42 CECO reform bills, created a housing accountability unit.
Does it work? And we're making big progress. We've done all that rezoning.

Speaker 4 We've been pounding in this space. There's no administration in modern California history that's done more to reform the housing space and the regulatory space as it relates to the issue of housing.

Speaker 4 The biggest challenge right now is NIMBYism. The biggest challenge we have is local planning and zoning, and that's why we've been very aggressive.

Speaker 2 NIMBY is a disaster. We agree on that.

Speaker 4 And so I have a YIMBY mindset on all this stuff. I'm in the front lines of this.
Your friends, and they are your friends down in Huntington Beach, that I'm suing their consumer. The visitors or what?

Speaker 4 Or the whole city council?

Speaker 4 They love you. They leave.
They literally the MAGA family. They're 99.9%.
Who's living who in rent bringing who's head? One of the smaller towns? We're suing them because of their rank NIMBYism.

Speaker 4 We have been very aggressive in this space.

Speaker 4 I'm waiting for one big thing we all are waiting for, and I think it had a biggest, perhaps one of the biggest impacts that we don't focus on enough in the last election. That was the interest rates.

Speaker 4 As interest rates,

Speaker 4 I believe they will.

Speaker 4 And you're going to see an explosion of housing production.

Speaker 4 I'm very confident in that in California.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but you also might see an increase in housing prices, of course.

Speaker 4 Well, to me, it's about supply, right? Economy 101, supply demand.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's just the biggest issue. And our biggest California and Hawaii have the two highest housing prices in the country.
Hawaii has an obvious excuse. They only have so much land.

Speaker 2 You guys don't have a lack of land.

Speaker 4 By the way, I I haven't been governor for a century, okay? I mean, geez, no, I haven't been. I mean, we've been six years ago.
But hold on, but six years. And by the way, no excuse.
I get it.

Speaker 4 You can't take credit for all the assets.

Speaker 2 You know, number one AI, number one nanotechnology.

Speaker 4 But you also got to take responsibility for some of the more. It's a lot more novel.
I'm going to take a little more credit on the generative AI. 32 of the top 10.

Speaker 2 To balance both the credit and the

Speaker 2 blame.

Speaker 2 No, I appreciate it. But quality of life, right? So we are both.

Speaker 2 So when I talk to a college kid, one of the reasons they saw Trump as a vessel for a better life is that under President Trump, those first four years, we saw a material increase in their livelihood, wages, easier to buy a home, four years, four years a lot.

Speaker 2 Just the facts are the average wage to be able to own a home in LA, to be able to own a home.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah, insane.

Speaker 2 It used to be $75,000 a year. Now it's $145,000 a year.
So

Speaker 2 what it does, and this is, again, it's creating... this kind of belief system of Russian serfs of a generation that will never have the material American dream that their parents once enjoyed.

Speaker 4 Yeah, no, and I look, I think it's a full circle on this conversation where you began by identifying. We'll circle back.

Speaker 1 And then finally, Gavin Newsom's meeting with Trump. Again, the fact that he would kind of still cover with Joe Biden just goes to show you should not trust anything this guy says.

Speaker 1 He's like, oh, you know, Biden had great mental competency.

Speaker 4 No, but it's a point. But the point you're making, Scott Galloway and others have been making as it relates to this generational fact.
Yes. He's spot on on this.

Speaker 4 And I think there's so much validity to

Speaker 4 you recognizing that problem.

Speaker 4 So diagnosing is one thing.

Speaker 2 And President Trump as well. He deserves credit.

Speaker 4 And I mean, I think he, yeah, he's, he deserves interesting.

Speaker 2 I'm going to get you to say the words.

Speaker 4 By the way, I just spent almost 90 minutes with him in the Oval Office a couple of weeks ago. Isn't he the greatest? And, you know, I think it was the first Democrat invited in.
And Trump 2010.

Speaker 4 I mean, you've got to admit, there's so magical, that guy.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 Joe Biden couldn't do five minutes with him.

Speaker 4 By the way, I did almost 90 minutes with Biden right before he left in the Oval.

Speaker 2 Do you remember? By the way, that'd be a hell of a book.

Speaker 4 90, you know, 180 minutes. I should do a book of the two of the bookmarks.

Speaker 4 By the way, he 100% was.

Speaker 2 Oh, come on, God.

Speaker 4 Just a fact.

Speaker 4 It's just, you can.

Speaker 2 Do you think there was any mental debate?

Speaker 4 No, no, seriously.

Speaker 2 You went around the country being like, he's, I'll take him at 100. There was one exception.

Speaker 4 And I, and it was the one debate. No, no, no.
Before the debate, I was about to say.

Speaker 4 And that was the big fundraiser down in L.A. where I saw a different

Speaker 4 black, right? But it was one exception. It was not.
That was, but, you know, so much of that focus was, all right, he just got back from Europe. But that was the one time we don't need to get it.

Speaker 2 But I just say, Governor, just on that one topic, we saw with our own eyes for three years, and the media told us, no, no, he's perfectly fine. And then we saw the debate.

Speaker 2 And look, it makes us not trust our leaders when we say everyone is perfectly fine. The Emperor is fine.

Speaker 4 Are you seeing any mental decline in Donald Trump, right?

Speaker 2 No, I see that more sharp acuity.

Speaker 4 You tell me you sat with him in the Oval Office for 90 minutes. The guy has a memory of the family.

Speaker 4 I'm asking. I mean, I know.
I'm just asking.

Speaker 4 Of course not. No, I think he's.

Speaker 4 How often do you talk to Trump, by the way?

Speaker 2 Once or twice a week.

Speaker 4 Is he checking for advice or is he you? A little bit of both.

Speaker 2 It depends if there's something I want to talk to him about. But I mean, he's just a machine.
He'll take every call.

Speaker 4 You got to give him credit. Isn't it amazing?

Speaker 4 Every call thing is big, right? It's amazing.

Speaker 2 And he'll listen to every idea. He'll joust it out.
He'll talk about it. He always goes back to what I promised the voters.

Speaker 4 What was the last idea you gave him?

Speaker 2 The last idea.

Speaker 4 Yeah, he was like, Mr. President,

Speaker 4 here's what you need, or here's the thought.

Speaker 2 Here's my satisfaction. Actually, it was interesting.
I said, I don't think Canada should be the 51st state. We already have California and we have enough libs in our country.

Speaker 4 Jesus, on that, I get thee, Kirk.

Speaker 2 Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.

Speaker 4 No, on that, that I want to thank you. This has been Gavin Newsom.
This has been

Speaker 4 a Gavin Newsom production.

Speaker 4 Thank you. This was fun.

Speaker 2 Thanks, man.

Speaker 4 Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on.
Thanks. Whatever.
Having, Jesus Christ, we'll expect you. Don't get over it.

Speaker 1 So, in closing, what are my thoughts? I think Gavin Newsom wants to run to the middle. Should we trust him? No, I don't think it's legitimate.
I don't think it's authentic. I will say

Speaker 1 their team told us they would not edit a piece of footage, and they didn't. And they deserve credit for that.

Speaker 1 In a world where a lot of people will say one thing and do another, they were honest brokers. But I don't think that Gavin Newsom is actually having a metamorphosis on any issue.

Speaker 1 I don't think Gavin Newsom

Speaker 1 has any closely held issues. I think he cares about what will keep keep him in power and get him closer to the presidency.
So, hope you guys enjoyed my conversation with Gavin Newsom.

Speaker 1 There is now a Democrat Civil War underway, large in part thanks to our conversation.

Speaker 1 It was good to be able to challenge one of the leaders of the Democrat Party on who they are and why they have failed the American people, and also to continue to remind them they are losing young people.

Speaker 1 Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

Speaker 4 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.