Sunday Special: The 10 Best Horror Movie Franchises

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I'm Gilbert Cruz, and this is the Sunday Special.

I could not be more excited about today's episode.

Producers, cue the spooky music.

I love Halloween.

I love the spooky vibes.

I love candy.

I specifically love like mini Heath bars.

But maybe more than all of that, I am obsessed with scary movies, and that is what we are talking about today.

Here with me is Eric Piepenberg.

He is the horror movie columnist at The Times.

Hi, Eric.

Hello, Gilbert.

And our first returning guest, what an honor, Jason Zinneman, a critic at large and the author of the book, Shock Value: How a Few Eccentric Outsiders Gave Us Nightmares, Conquered Hollywood, and Invented Modern Horror.

Why is this subtitle so long?

It's way too long.

I was young.

But

I just sold the French rights.

It's coming out in France.

Literally today, I signed the rights.

Zout de l'Or.

Welcome, Jason.

Good to be here.

Okay, I brought the two of you on here for a very particular reason.

Today, we're going to come up with the definitive list of the greatest horror franchises in cinema history, according to us three.

We're going to make this list.

We're all going to agree.

We're going to get along.

And then we'll hug at the end.

Maybe.

Maybe.

Maybe.

We'll see.

Okay.

Got to keep some suspense, Gilbert.

You're right.

You're right.

Okay.

Before we jump into this task, and it is a hearty task, I want to know how you all are feeling about the current state of horror movies.

Like, how are we feeling about where the genre is right now in this year, 2025?

Eric.

I'm feeling good about it.

I think we are in a sort of prolonged golden age of horror right now.

The period that's sort of started with get out, Out, I think, is continuing.

And when I think about just this year alone, Weapons is just one of the best horror movies I've seen in quite some time.

We're seeing a lot of new faces, new ways of seeing horror.

Jason, do you think so?

That's a little more optimistic than I would say.

I think we're at the end of the golden age.

I think maybe the olden age just ended.

But I have to say, if I was to sum up

the era right now in a word, it would be respectable, which is in both senses of the word we're in an era of prestige oscar bait horror you know sinners weapons uh frankenstein these all are going to be in the conversation this is not in the disreputable era right yeah but if you judge a horror era by its mediocrities it's not so bad either i mean i liked uh dangerous animals which is like another shark movie i just watched this movie drop which again is not like going to last the test of time it's a it's a set all in one bad bad date, but it kind of works as a thriller.

So I think it's been a better year than the last couple, I would say.

Yeah.

It is interesting because both of you talked about these sort of big studio horror movies, Sinner's Weapons, the latest in the Final Destination franchise, which we will talk about, Bloodlines, and then the latest Conjuring movie, which is one of the most successful horror franchises of all time.

Those are all out, but at the same time, it feels like there is

still a thriving sort of indie horror scene.

You know, this year you had Bring Her Back.

You had a movie Together, which was a Dave Franco Allison Bree movie that was sold.

I think it was one of the first movies sold at this year's Sundance Film Festival for a lot of money.

So it feels like the studios are putting out pretty good horror.

Indies are putting out pretty good horror.

The days of Blumhouse being the maker of cheap horror movies alone has sort of faded a little bit because horror is a reliable box office draw.

Because whether you're a big studio or a small studio, you know that there is this very rabid fan base that everyone has sort of gotten into the game.

I'd say the most interesting podcast I heard about the horror genre now this year was Jason Blum went on Matt Bellany's podcast, The Town, to talk about why the sequel to Megan,

Megan 2, flopped.

Yeah, and this is Jason Blum, who is sort of the man behind Blum House, which has produced and distributed a bunch of horror movies a century.

Yeah, right, exactly.

Paranormal Activity, Insidious, a bunch of other stuff.

Yeah.

And he said

the days when cheap horror.

was the way to go are gone.

And for Jason Blum to say that is really something that he said that now with all the competition, you need an event.

And so you actually need to have an expensive horror.

You need to really make a difference.

I know a lot of people who disagree with that, and that caused a lot of waves.

But the fact that he he said it suggested there was some anxiety among the horror establishment about, okay, where's the next Blair Witch paranormal activity, et cetera?

Yeah, I would say sort of on the flip side of the big pictures, I would say one of the nice things about doing this column is that I get to discover under the radar indie movies.

I'm thinking of a movie like Bleeding, which came out early this year.

It was this vampire story about told through the eyes of addiction.

Goodboy, this new movie about this dog who goes to a haunted house.

These small movies,

look, every month I have, I would say, from 15 to 20 brand new movies that are streaming to choose from.

And that doesn't include the bigger movies, but to be able to just see how many horror movie directors are just doing this small little movie that to me, in some ways, is far more effective and scary than a movie like Together, which I didn't really like.

That to me is what's exciting, that you have young faces who are using some of the horror conventions but telling them in new very disturbing ways

so i think we need to move to the meat of this conversation

so here's what we're gonna do we have a list here of a couple dozen or so horror franchises that the group of us came up with And listeners, I just want to say here right at the front, if your favorite franchise isn't on here,

I don't know what to say.

The show can only be so long.

These franchises are arranged chronologically, and the goal here is to eventually get to a list of what we consider to be the 10 best horror franchises of all time.

So I think we

should start by going through this big list.

We'll give a quick yes or no to each of these franchises.

Some I think are going to move on very quickly because they feel obvious or iconic.

And then some we're probably going to chat about a little bit before we make a decision.

And for the sake of this discussion, I'm defining a franchise as a series of related films.

There's one film that results in multiple sequels that have recurring villains or recurring heroes or recurring locations.

Does that sound right to the two of you?

I think that's a terrible definition.

Okay, no.

No,

I think.

All right, so this podcast is going to be three hours long.

Well, I guess let's start at the beginning.

I think it's a good start.

You asked, like, when we were doing this, when does a horror movie franchise begin?

And to me,

among the universal monster movies that

started in 1931, which, you know, Frankenstein, Dracula, Jekyll and Hyde, the first one to have a major follow-up is Bride of Frankenstein.

As soon as you have Bride of Frankenstein, to me, that's the first one.

Yeah.

And I'm not sure that qualifies.

I think it does.

I do think it qualifies.

I think if you look back at all the Universal Monster movies, it definitely has the feel of a franchise.

You have Bright of Frankenstein, as you mentioned, son of Frankenstein.

You have Frankenstein meeting the wolfman eventually.

You have this.

world before we ever thought about interconnected universes in which, you know, there's a house style, characters are interacting with one another, you have essentially direct sequels to some of these movies.

It feels like this is the beginning.

But what ties it all together in me is the monster and the character in a way that I would like to include like

young Frankenstein in the way I like to include, I'd like to include Sean and the Dead in the Dead series.

I don't want to go by the rules of Hollywood producer.

Yeah, but you understand that we need to have rules here, right?

Of course it's about breaking rules, Gilbert, and that's what I'm here for.

No, I'll go along with it.

Whatever definitely is.

Okay.

Eric, we know who the chaos agent is.

Can we agree?

Universal franchise should proceed.

I think it should proceed.

I hear you, Jason.

I also think you make some really good points, but the answer is yes.

For our purposes here, let's continue on that one.

Okay, we're going to move to the early 1960s, 1960, in fact, when

one of the first slasher movies, the first slasher movie, if we consider Psycho, Alfred Hitchcock's All-Time Classic to be a slasher movie.

We all go a little mad sometimes.

Came out in 1960.

No one thought it would be a franchise, but starting in the early 80s, you had Psycho 2, Psycho 3, and then Psycho 4 at the beginning, which was a prequel TV movie.

This is very weird.

We're going to encounter some of these.

It's a franchise where the first movie is one of the greatest movies of all time.

As a franchise, as something that is like all held together, I don't know that I would put it on the list, but I'm looking at Jason and I know.

Well, no, among horror nerds, Psycho 2 has developed a re-evaluate, you know, famous Quentin Tarantino prefers it to Psycho, and he's not the only one.

I watched it again.

It's definitely not there than the first one, but it's a very good movie.

It really digs into the things that the original does not.

And I would also argue, Gus Van Santz equally disliked you know shot by shot remake I admire the ambition of that I'm not saying it's my top 10 but I think that psycho and uh psycho 2 plus the gus van sand three and four are terrible make it a worthy franchise along with obviously you know one of the most important horror movies ever we're gonna put this one on the bubble does that feel right that feels fine with me yeah okay i'm good with that the next one the night of the living dead series

have concluded that in all

George Romero's extremely low-budget movie that kicked off an entire sub-genre within horror, the zombie movie.

This feels important and iconic enough that we can automatically move this on to the list of films that we're going to discuss later.

Right.

Yeah.

Next, The Exorcist, 1973.

You left her alone.

I love, love, love, love, love The Exorcist.

First time I saw it was one of the scariest experiences I've ever had.

I've been chasing that experience ever since for the rest of my life.

Are you religious, Gilbert?

I grew up Catholic.

There you go.

That makes a difference.

I got it.

It does make a difference.

Yeah, big difference, yeah.

I think it's worth putting on this list.

I think I don't love the films after the original so much.

I know, Jason, I think you picked a jump scare from The Exorcist films as one of your favorite jump scares recently.

I think I've seen 23 as one of the best jump scares ever.

Which, look,

watching those few minutes of that scene, I think, are truly one of the scariest things I've ever seen.

So I appreciate that it has one of those scenes, but I don't love them.

But is it

in this discussion?

Thumbs up.

I'm going to give it thumbs up for

one reason.

One of the things I like about a franchise is when there's terrible movies in it.

I don't like.

This is good.

Exorcist 2, all I can say is James O.

Jones wears a B-suit.

It is a locust suit.

A loose suit.

Okay, okay.

In Exorcist II, the Heretic, he wears a locust suit.

Okay, that alone, right, that image alone, I think, should qualify it to be under consideration as like a memorable,

it's a memorable movie.

Eric's absolutely right.

The third one has this one scene that's memorable enough, more memorable than most horror movies.

I don't think it's going to end up being one of top 10, but I would say we should consider it.

All right.

I'm just going to say the next one, which is the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, toby hooper's film from 1974 this should continue so we're going to keep this one going

jaws

i have a confession i have never seen jaws and i will never see jaws what the sorry what are you doing producers mouths agape please nia

Look, I have confessed this before, so this is not breaking news, but I have a terrible, horrible, I have a severe shark phobia.

And I remember sitting in Dairy Queen in Cleveland, Ohio, looking at the poster of the giant jaws with that tiny little lady up at the top.

Yeah.

Iconic poster.

Iconic poster.

It has scarred me for life.

I don't go swimming.

I don't go in swimming pools because there might be a jaws underneath me.

Lakes.

Why would a shark be in a swimming pool?

Toilets.

They could be anywhere.

I'm telling you, it's a severe phobia.

Don't trigger me.

I'm going to make an executive decision here.

The first movie, I would say one of the great horror movies, and then you have three terrible sequels.

This doesn't feel like a horror franchise to me.

It feels like a shark franchise.

The Omen, 1976.

Look at me, Damien.

It's all for you.

You love this, The First Omen.

I thought the prequel that came out recently, The First Omen, directed by Arkasha Stevenson, was fantastic.

Fantastic.

I agree.

The original Omen

is a good horror movie, and then you had a bunch of not good stuff.

So I actually don't know.

It's one of the more famous franchises from the 70s.

I actually don't know if I would sort of push it ahead.

Look,

I've laid out a few things I think are important.

One that I think we all agree is sort of cultural footprint.

Yeah.

And I'm not sure the Omen has that.

Yeah, it's like the avatar of horror movies.

No cultural footprint.

1977's The Hills Have Eyes.

This is the first of several Wes Craven franchises on this list.

I got strong opinions on this.

Okay.

It should be on the list.

It should be on the list.

It should be on the list.

And I'm going to say there's going to be some Wes Craven franchises that other people are going to want to put on that.

I'm not.

I'm not happy with where this is going on.

I know.

I know.

The Hill.

Here's my case.

The original and the reboot.

are both great.

The reboot, the Alexandra Aja.

There's a movie about a clan of cannibals that live in the desert.

And, you know, it's sort of building on some Texas chainsaw elements.

But I think it's a great franchise because it has this, you know, a great movie.

It has a crummy sequel.

The fact that it has a successful reboot, which I don't think we'll be able to say about that many.

Have you seen these?

I haven't.

I think it does not belong in this list.

Like the Yeoman, I don't consider it a franchise necessarily, I think.

I hear what you're saying, Jason.

I don't think it belongs here for the similar reasons as

let's let's give it a yellow.

I appreciate Jason's passion.

Yeah, I do too.

I appreciate Jason.

See, here's the thing about Jason.

He's so smart and a very like, he's a classy thinker.

Where I'm like, I like monster movies because heads explode because it's stupid.

That's kind of my sort of thing.

Here's the thing about Eric.

You might know this, he's from Cleveland and plays the Cleveland I'm the Rube card.

He's smarter than any of us.

His horror column, I never miss, must, must read.

So don't fall for this.

He's just trying to get Hills Eye Byes out of here.

Put the Hills Eyes Eyes on the list.

It's on the bubble.

1978's Halloween.

You know, it's Halloween.

I guess everyone's entitled to one good scare, huh?

In the running

for the most influential horror movie franchise, one of the most influential horror movie franchises.

This is just an automatic.

We will discuss this later.

We should move this along.

Correct.

Okay.

Phantasm.

I've been waiting for you.

This is the one with the tall man who's creepy looking, and there's these flying balls that have spikes.

I'm going to say Stone Cold Classic, most underrated horror film of the 70s.

Sure, I've got

to be aware of that.

The tall man is one of the great horror movie villains.

It should be if the world, if we lived in a fair world, Gilbert, all right, if we lived in a just world,

the tall man would be talked about the way Michael Myers and Leatherface are.

Phantasm one, great, Phantasm II is great, just surreal, trippy imagery.

Maybe the best uh mirror scare of all time, which is no small thing.

These have straight-to-video sequels.

Do we feel like those count as part of a that sweetens the pot?

Even more

delicious, straight to video.

I'll eat that up.

Absolutely.

I put Phantasm as a franchise, and we can talk about that above Halloween.

I'm fighting words to you.

I literally hear you am struck

mute.

I mean, I got a whole argument for it, but we can wait.

I'm usually

fast with the comeback, but I don't know what to say about that.

All right, let's put this on the bubble as well.

The Amityville Horror 1979

is

the passage

to hell.

Here's the thing about the Amityville Horror.

I counted,

there are approximately 70 sequels for Amityville Horror.

Yeah.

Amityville is the name of a town on Long Island, and you can't copyright the name of a town.

Correct.

Amityville has become the shorthand for just the scary and then plus this other thing.

There's the Amityville Karen.

There's the Amityville Christmas Vacation.

There's the Amityville gas chamber.

I mean, there's just like these ridiculous films made for $2 that you just slap on the word Amityville.

And the town isn't happy about that.

But that's okay.

Some of the movies are great.

Most of them are bad.

But as a franchise, yes.

You guys are out of your mind.

I'll say no.

You guys will say no.

I'll say no.

I'll say no.

No, because there's...

Oh, so now Eric's not smart.

I'm in the room.

No, I'm not a room, but he makes a good argument.

He's almost persuaded me with the 70.

That's crazy.

I have no idea.

That is a very strong case for it.

But I'm going to say

Haunted House.

There's several...

haunted house franchises that are better than this one.

And I think that's part of why its cultural currency, which was huge once upon a time, has diminished.

I would say it's not even the most successful horror franchise about a medieval horror.

All right, let's put it on the bubble.

Let's put it when there's a when there's a wholesale agreement, we'll move it forward.

When there is disagreement, we'll put it on the bubble.

Alien 1979, first movie, Stone Cold Classic.

Yes, movie.

We'll move it forward.

We're in the 80s now, the height of the Slasher film, and we are going to come upon a couple of the all-time franchises, although I think Jason might disagree with one.

No, no, no.

Friday the 13th.

Move it forward.

Okay.

Poltergeist.

I don't know about this one.

I don't know.

It doesn't feel like it's a franchise worth talking about.

I'm kind of on the same page with you on that one.

Okay.

The Evil Dead.

Why have you disturbed our sleep?

For sure.

Definitely qualifies.

Okay.

1984, a nightmare on Elm Street.

Please, God, this

Here's God.

I am a fan of the first one, which I think is tremendous.

I know, Eric, you are a fan of the second one.

I am a fan of the second second.

Freddy's Revenge.

Yeah,

I got to gay it up for a second.

The second Nightmare on Elm Street is considered the gay one.

It is not subtext, it is text.

And that is what I really enjoy about it.

So I think for sure Nightmare on Elm Street, especially the second one, which I think is influential in a lot of ways that I'm not sure if people fully appreciate.

And I would add that for me, what's, I think, a sign of a great franchise, we can all point to ones we love.

To me, it's the only franchise where the last one is my favorite.

This is New Nightmare.

New Nightmare, which I think all the credit that goes to Scream should go to Nightmare on Elm Street.

New Nightmare was doing meta-winking horror before Scream,

and Freddy was a comic character

before

it was basically turned into a comedy.

And, you know, I sort of like the zigs and zags of it.

The next one, it's a bit of an odd one, but I'm going to throw it in here.

1986's Manhunter, which is a Michael Mann movie that's really a crime movie, but it starts what will become a horror franchise five years later with The Silence of the Lambs, which is one of the only horror movies to ever win Best Picture.

The thing that connects all of these, of course, is Hannibal Lecter, played by Brian Cox in Manhunter, and then Anthony Hopkins for the rest of the movies.

Is this a franchise that feels like it belongs in the all-time conversation?

I'm going to say no, but I would highly recommend people watch the Brian Cox scene where

the detective comes in to visit him in the prison.

You're very tan, Will.

Your hands are rough.

They don't look like cops' hands anymore.

Men watch the same scene, the Jodie Foster coming in to see Hannibal Ector and Silence of Lambs.

Do you know what you look like to me with your good bag and your cheap shoes?

You look like a robe,

a well-scrubbed, hustling robe with a little taste.

To see two genius actors doing the same thing in different ways.

I don't think of it as horror.

It's almost like too classy for for horror.

Yeah, that's true.

Does classiness get in the way a bit?

Yeah, for me, part of the appeal of horror is to be disreputable.

And if something is trying to be too classy, I just don't find that enjoyable.

Speaking of disreputable, I think the next movie would fall in that category.

It's 1987's Hellraiser, of course, about an evil puzzle box that when you manipulate it, calls a bunch of demons.

Explorers in the further regions of experience.

Demons to some,

angels to others.

I think that's right.

I am not a big fan of a Hellraiser.

I think those sort of fancy production design, it all looks a little too party city for me.

I don't know.

It's just not, it's not my

kink.

So, yeah, I think I'm going to.

You don't like the leather?

No.

You don't like the chains?

No, I don't like the leather and the chains and the drapey, like Moo Moo stuff and the headgear and the makeup.

No, it just looks like cabaret plus party city plus busted.

So, no.

We're not going to lose Hellraiser along.

1988's Child's Play.

Hi, I'm Chucky.

Wanna play?

Yeah, this is so great.

Again, I'm going to gate up here.

I mean, like, where this, where this franchise goes in terms of queer representation, in terms of non-binary, and I think they really set the tone for what queer horror can be today.

And I think without the entire child's play franchise, I think

queer horror would be sort of missing something.

So for me, I think for those reasons alone, and because it's Chuckies, kids love dressing up as Chuckies.

So, for those reasons, like to see a little kid with a plastic knife waddling down the street with that wig and the overalls, I mean,

stuff of my nightmares.

Child's Play is in some ways, it feels such a franchise.

Yeah.

It is.

Because to me, a franchise is also not just the movies.

It's the dolls, it's the posters, it's the

appearances.

You know, I don't even know all the things that Chucky has his hand in, but

it feels bigger than

what's on the screen.

We're going into the 90s now.

Sorry to leave the 80s.

Just the best decade.

Candyman.

Be my victim.

I think the original Candyman is really fantastic, but I'm not sure if the subsequent films really stand up to the original so much.

And I just don't see it as something canonical that we would want to put as part of the, that we'd want to include in part of this list uh okay we'll move along

scream

there are certain rules that one must abide by in order to successfully survive a horror movie for instance this number one this modern slasher franchise is the

one that

most reminds people of the tropes of a horror movie.

You watch horror movies in part because particularly with franchises, you know they're predictable and this franchise wears all of that on its sleeve and there's something that is entertaining and enjoyable about that.

The characters that have lasted across six movies now, I think people have great affection for Nev Campbell and Courtney Coffee.

And I don't just like the skin.

And the Arquette, whose first name I cannot recall.

No, David Arquette.

No, I think actually, and if you were to, if the measure was the best movies, Scream would be among, I think that the quality control is not bad for Scream.

I just think it's a bit basic.

I think it's not,

I don't, I the

personally,

the, uh, I think to a certain kind of horror person, Scream gets on our nerves because there's this idea that horror never had humor.

And it's proposed.

Let's listen to this conversation.

So many of these movies are hilarious.

If it's, if it's Calling Card, is it added this humor and it's not that funny?

You know, then it's, then what is it?

Eric?

I don't find them funny.

I find the wink-wink stuff too much.

Ghost-faced, again, looks like something you'd buy at like Walgreens.

I just can buy it at Walgreens.

That's true.

So I am not going to advocate for that.

Wow.

Okay.

I predict this will be controversial with some of our listeners, but we set a set of rules and we are going to abide by them.

I'm surprised Scream is not moving forward.

What about

the next one, Final Destination, which debuted in 2000?

But what if it was our time?

What if we were not meant to get off that plane?

It was sort of in the gutter for a while, and then this year's movie, Bloodlines, really sort of brought it back.

And I think that's why I would save it for me.

Final Destination Bloodlines was really one of the funniest horror movies I've seen in a while.

That first scene atop that building and just where, to the very end, where there's this train that comes out of nowhere.

I mean, it's so funny and so accomplished in the way that it marries horror and comedy.

So, if I think for Bloodlines alone, I would say absolutely.

These are the movies in which I regularly find myself, even while watching them alone, screaming out loud at something ridiculous that just happened in like a wonderful way.

So we'll move ahead.

Next one.

Oh, God, these.

Saw.

I want to play the game.

Here's what happens.

I mean, it's the most franchisey of franchises, at least unless you count some of those in the 80s.

So I would say you have to have Saw on the list.

Yeah, and in some way, it feels like a sister or a cousin to Final Destination.

So I would say, yeah.

Okay.

Paranormal activity 2007.

I feel good about paranormal activity.

I think for me, that's top 10 material, I think.

I agree.

Especially because we didn't put Blair Witch on here.

We got to have one of those two.

Insidious, the next series that James wants or dealt with.

I can still hear that voice.

Just because we can't have both Insidious and the Conjuring, I would say I would err on the side of the conjuring.

You get the very wise.

It's very wise if you

think that's right.

And I really want Patrick Wilson to come back to Broadway.

I'm sorry.

I saw him in Oklahoma, and he needs to come back and sing for us.

So

you guys are the perfect, perfect pair to talk about both those things.

The VHS series.

I like like this as a franchise.

I'm a big fan of the anthology film, Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, that whole world.

And so I think to include an anthology franchise in here, I think would be cool.

2013's The Conjuring.

She possessed the mother to kill the child.

She misses Carolyn every night.

That's what the bruise marks are.

She's feeding off of her.

I'm, just for the sake of time, going to say this one has to be on there.

Yeah, okay.

The third series that James Juan has worked on.

2013's the purge

any and all crime including murder will be legal for 12 continuous months i'm just gonna say no okay i'm gonna say no great uh a quiet place

the last one bored me i i would say i'd say no i'm gonna say not yet guys i love how we're getting really really vicious here right at the end and then 2018's terrifier he thinks what he's doing is funny because he's laughing but i know it's not funny because they're all dead the hell away from you one of the most out-of-nowhere surprising horror success stories in the past many years.

These are extremely low-budget movies, extremely violent and gory.

And Terrifier 2 and Terrifier 3 have made a ton of money at the American box office.

I love the idea of

Damian Leon, the director of these films, being on this list, because I do think Art the Clown has become a villain, and I think he's the newest villain that I think you could put somewhere in the lineage of Freddie and Jason.

I don't think it, for our purposes, I wouldn't put it on the list, but I cannot wait for more terrifier films to come out.

I have a strong stomach, but for these movies, I get a little queasy when I watch these.

I agree with everything, Eric said.

All right.

So, Jason,

Eric, we just went through so many franchises, but somehow we've narrowed it down to 15 that we've agreed.

We're going to move forward to the debate that we're about to have about what the 10 greatest horror movie franchises of all time are.

And I'm going to read those 15 very quickly.

The Universal Monsters franchise, the Night of the Living Dead series, the Exorcist, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Halloween, Alien, Friday the 13th, The Evil Dead series, Night We're on Elm Street, Child's Play, Final Destination, Saw, Paranormal Activity, VHS, and the Conjuring films.

This is a slightly perverse list, but gather your thoughts.

We are going to take a break, and when we come back, the three of us are going to pick our definitive list that no one will argue with of top 10 horror movie franchises.

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Jason Eric, we've just gone through every single important horror movie franchise, at least according to me and the two of you and the producers of the show.

And we've narrowed it down to a slim list of 15.

And we're going to make some cuts so that at the end of this, we have a nice, clean, perfect, respectable list of the 10 best horror movie franchises ever, parentheses according to us.

How are we going to pare this down?

We are going to go around the room, and each of us is going to stump for one franchise that they believe absolutely needs to be on here.

And you're also going to have your vote for what you think should be removed.

You should make a convincing argument.

Jason, we'll start with you.

So,

one that I think needs to be on is Friday the 13th.

They were making love while that young boy drowned.

His name was Jason.

Well, I think franchise is, I think, Friday the 13th.

It has all the qualities, but it has the classic villain who happens to share my name.

So, I'm a little biased.

And also, I like franchises that are silly and go to a lot of crazy places.

Jason went to space.

Jason went to hell.

Jason met Freddy.

He went to Manhattan.

He went to Manhattan.

I mean, there's all places.

So I think you can't have a list of franchises being taken seriously and not have Friday the 13th.

So I would vote for that one.

Okay.

And do you want to say now which one you think should go?

Yeah, I'll say

I'll say The Exorcist.

Sorry, Gilbert.

It's a great movie.

It's not a great franchise.

You know what?

I'm a peacemaker.

Let's get rid of the Exorcist.

All right.

We can do this, guys.

We can do this.

A little tense here.

We got a little tense in here.

Eric.

Yes, I would say we need to keep child's play.

I think you have a villain that is hilarious and also creepy.

I think there's a through line through the films.

I think it does touch on some queer aspects, which I personally like.

And so I think for those reasons, I think it needs to stay.

And if you know what's good for you, you are going to love, honor, and obey.

I wouldn't marry you if you had the body of G.I.

Joe.

Hey, Raggedy Ann, you looked in the mirror lately?

Now's not the time to get picky.

I vouched for this, or I advocated for this, but I would actually take off the VHS films.

I love an anthology series, but I think maybe that is one that could go.

Also, we have at least one other found footage franchise here, so I would take Vehs off.

Jason.

I agree.

Okay, let's take it off.

So much agreement here.

I am going to advocate for a Nightmare on Elm Street.

What's wrong, Joey?

Feeling tongue-tied?

The first movie, one of my all-time favorite horror movies, I think of the major slashers

as we think about them.

Jason Voorhees from the Friday the 13th movies, Michael Myers from the Halloween movies, maybe even Leatherface from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies.

Freddy Krueger is the only one with personality.

He is the only one that has a little verb, a little pop.

And that's important, I think.

Yes.

If you are going to be a character that holds a franchise over multiple movies,

you are right, Jason.

He gets silly.

He becomes a comedic character.

I think that comedy and horror coexist very easily.

And I know you agree.

Oh, I mean, I agree that comedy and horror are two sides of the same coin.

The structure of a suspense sequence that builds tension and leads to a scream is analogous to the structure of a joke, which builds tension and then leads to a laugh.

And I think you see that in Nightmare and Elm Street, which

you know, it does, it melds them very well.

And then I think you also just have the visual palette is for a big, you know, hot blockbuster franchise it's quite like surreal and uh and I yeah I agree I think your point about personality is is a good one that that you didn't see that before I also think there's something about these movies you use the right word surreal particularly in the first movie the fact that you are operating with dream logic for much of these movies just gives it a different flavor than all of these other ones which ostensibly other than the supernatural ones exist in the real world and you just have a bunch of people getting murdered in, you know, very ornate ways.

No, it means you can do things visually you can't otherwise.

I mean, I think you see like the arms through the walls.

A lot of the vocabulary, the cinematic vocabulary of horror comes from Nightmare, which comes from Polanski, which, you know, has all the look.

You can watch it with a sound out and it's great.

So I think it's tremendously influential, too.

Okay.

So that is the one that I absolutely think should stay on.

And I would remove Saw.

I recently re-watched the first one, which is fine, but I think the conceits of these films over 10 movies is just a bit more than I care to experience.

I don't think they iterate on the original idea in particularly interesting ways.

I think the Final Destination franchise does this better, although they're two very different things.

I say take out Saw.

I'm fine with that.

Jason is rubbing his lips.

It feels wrong.

Yeah.

Why?

Well, because we're not here talking about a horror movie.

We're here talking about horror movie franchises.

And as you pointed out before, every year you could expect a Saw movie like you could expect Halloween.

What's around the Saw movie

was as significant as the Saw movies.

So you're right.

There is a consistency.

And a lot of this podcast I've been going on about how much I admire movies that zag, right?

But if we're honest, the reason that most of these horror franchises have sequel after sequel is to give people more of the same.

And the Saw movies did that more effectively than anything past the 80s classic slasher food.

You know what, Jason, you're right.

Let's add Saw back on.

My favorite three words.

And we are going to take Alien off.

Oh, I'm fine with that.

Okay.

I'm fine with that.

You want to argue?

This is what happens.

Alien's God.

Also, I think Alien is more science fiction.

And if we're going to be sticklers about definitions, to me, it's a little more of the alien creature type movie.

And so to me, yes, there are horror elements.

Yes, there are crossovers of the two.

But to me, that's the maybe top 10 science fiction franchise.

Yeah, everyone says the original Alien is a haunted house story in space.

Sure.

But it's still in space.

It's still in space.

Okay.

So we're going to go back to you, Eric, and you are going to suggest one franchise that absolutely needs needs to stay on and one that should fall off I'm going to advocate for paranormal activity to stay on the list oh okay scratch myself first

did you hear that

yeah

it's okay

it's all right all right it's okay

it is a found footage film it is a the first one is really really good I also love that it came out of nowhere to become this really big hit and has spawned subsequent films.

And now, a stage show,

which is

at the Chicago Shakespeare Theater right now.

It's coming to DC later on.

They have, I haven't seen it, so I don't know if it's good or not, but they have managed to transfer this found footage story, which I don't know how you do that on stage, but I'm very curious to see that.

Theater keeps coming up, Jason.

I don't know what's going on here, but like anything that has a show

attached to it, I sort of say, you know what?

Let's keep that on the list.

I guess.

And these are the films that that popularized, in my mind at least, someone getting dragged off by an off-screen presence.

Whenever I think about that happening, these are the movies I think about.

Yeah, agreed.

I guess I'm struggling with this because I love the Universal Monsters, but I almost wonder if that's not quite a franchise.

I used to stay up.

What's this ageism?

I was just about to say, I used to stay up for the 11.30 p.m.

late-night movie with my grandmother who loved the Universal Monsters, uh, Channel 43, back when they showed movies.

Where was this?

This was in Cleveland, Ohio, Cleveland, Cleveland, right?

Got it.

Uh, and I have such warm memories of being with my grandmother and watching these films, so it pains me to take that off.

But I'm not sure if it's a

franchise.

I get the spirit of it, they're great movies, but is it a franchise for our purposes?

I say no.

Okay, let's strike it off, Jason.

We're coming back to you.

One, four, one against.

One for

Evil Dead.

The first movie is a great horror movie.

The second movie, you were talking about horror and comedy.

There's no movie, period, that's captured in live action the Looney Tunes better than the Evil Dead sequel.

There's a sequence, people can look it up on YouTube, of the main character, Ash, played by Bruce Campbell, who is a brilliant actor in these movies, where his hand gets possessed and he fights with his hand.

And it's just a tremendous bit of physical comedy that's still wrapped up.

It's a possessed hand and it still is a horror movie.

And then, you know, it keeps going.

It shifted again into like kind of a medieval adventure.

And then you've got

the reboots, the two, which I think are more kind of gnarly horror films.

I don't think there's a bad Evil Dead movie.

Also, a musical.

Also, a musical.

Also, a musical.

And a TV show.

And a TV show.

This is the last time I invite theater people.

Evil Dead belongs.

Evil Dead

has to be on the list.

And to take off the list, hmm, God,

this is getting very hard.

Oh, no, it's not.

I would say, all right, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which is one of my favorite movies of all time.

But I have a theory that Texas Chainsaw and Halloween, they're both, the originals are so great and they're so distinct that they kind of haunt the rest of the franchise.

And Texas Chainsaw Massacre, all the rest of them pale in comparison.

I would say the only, the most interesting thing about Texas Chainsaw Massacre is it's the movie that's beloved by filmmakers that they've had the hardest time trying to capture what makes it great.

The first movie that I saw that got close is another franchise that I would have put on this list, but we didn't get there, which is Ty West's trilogy.

X really is an homage to Texas Chainsaw and captures the gnarly, gritty, gross, you know, backwoods element of it.

So, anyways.

And

that's X, Pearl, and Maxine.

Correct.

Yeah.

Correct.

I would say, like, if you want to get to a slightly artier kind of franchise, that that would make it.

But I'd say take off Texas Chainsaw.

Okay, that was unexpected.

But I respect your decision.

Okay, so I think we're officially at 10 on the list now,

but I'm going to use my pick anyway to stump for the conjuring movie.

This just seems like for people of a certain generation, maybe no one of that generation is in this room, these are the

their franchise.

It is the sort of modern ghost demon franchise.

And it just feels like it would be, it's sort of undeniable.

It would be sick and perverse to to leave them off, which would be fine given the topic that we were discussing here.

It would be appropriate.

I know.

Maybe we're being too responsible.

The first two movies, The Conjuring and Conjuring 2, I think are quite good, the first one in particular.

But when we're talking about franchises, this is you have these characters that are sort of moving out in and out of all of these movies.

You have four conjuring films, all starring Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga

as just the cutest little spirit exercising couple.

You have two films in the nun series.

There are three Annabelle films.

There are some people that consider the curse of La Larona to be part of the series.

It has become sort of this universe in and of itself.

It just feels like the modern definition of a franchise to me.

We haven't hit the Conjuring TV series yet.

I don't know anyone dressing up as Ed and Lorraine Warren for Halloween.

Maybe I'll do that this year, but this is the one that I would keep on.

For sure.

Okay, guys, we have our 10, but obviously we cannot end this show without talking about our last two franchises.

And

it is insane that we have saved Halloween until the very end here.

What's the other one?

Halloween and the Night of the Living Dead series.

So the Halloween series.

I think when most people think of horror movie franchises is one of the ones that automatically comes to mind.

The first is, again,

a hard classic, and then you go in some weird directions with some weird sequels.

Halloween, I think, is such a perfect movie, but I also would make the case for Halloween 3, Season of the Witch, which has nothing to do with the Michael Myers world at all.

It's about basically these jack-o'-lantern masks, hoods that you put on, and there's mind control.

And I think it is really one of the underrated films in the Halloween series, at least by non-nerds.

Jason, I think you made the point that a franchise that can sort of go outside of its world and be something else, shapeshift.

I think this is the perfect example of that.

And I think that that's why for me, Halloween, I think, is maybe one of my favorite franchises.

I'm so glad Eric brought up this movie because when you, we began, when I heard that you guys wanted me to come on to talk about franchise, I re-watched Season of the Witch because I think it's the key turning point in the whole history of the franchise because, you know, John Carpenter didn't want to make a sequel.

They twisted around.

He made the sequel, right?

Which is basically Halloween 2 is the kind of very, took up right where Halloween 1 ended, made kind of the same movie, right and he said all right i'll come back for halloween three

but only if we don't have michael myers this has never been done before and here's the key part and after because because people came to see this to go to see michael myers and the only time you see michael myers in this movie is when one of the characters turns the tv set on and they're playing the halloween and everyone was like that's the movie i want to see

now i agree with everything eric said i think season of the witch is a tremendously underrated movie really interesting on many counts, some really trippy imagery in it.

But the lesson that the industry took from the failure of Season of the Witch is we're never going to let them do this again.

We've got to have the music, we've got to have the Michael Myers ask, and we'll let you mess around a little bit at the edges.

But it kind of ruined the franchise.

So I agree with all of Eric's premise, but I come to the opposite conclusion, which is because of the

Season of the Witch,

the rest of the Halloween franchise became less interesting to me.

where let's compare it to Night of the Living Dead.

When there's no more room in hell,

the dead will walk the earth.

This is the rare movie where the sequel is better than the, or more ambitious, certainly, than the original.

Dawn of the Dead is a tremendous movie.

And I think, you know, the movies varied in quality, but I think they really set a high bar in terms of ambition and created not just one character, but a whole new character that was taken off you know in a million other directions um so i would i would say if i had to choose um the night of the living dead franchise i would pick over over halloween which seems which seems crazy but i the one other thing oh we're not picking they're both on the list oh they're both on the list okay yeah so let's review the final list there've been a lot of lists this is the final list i'm gonna read it out and you can tell me how you feel about all these together night of the living dead halloween friday the 13th the evil dead Dead, a Nightmare on Elm Street, Child's Play, Final Destination, Saw, Paranormal Activity, and The Conjuring.

These are our 10.

Are these our 10?

Yeah, good list.

I feel good about it.

Yeah.

Do you think anyone's going to get angry about this list?

Oh, yeah.

Absolutely.

I should hope so.

Okay.

The producers are angry.

All right.

We have come up with a definitive,

look up the definition of the word, definitive list of the top 10 horror movie franchises of all time.

Tweet it, Jason Zinniman.

Okay.

Or threads.

Or threads.

Listeners, those of you who are not mad at the movies we left off, you can find both our master list and our top 10 in the show notes so you can basically recreate this debate with your friends.

We're going to take another break, and when we return, as we do every week, we're going to play a little game.

We all have moments when we could have done better.

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This is Sarah Koenig, host of Serial.

We have a new show.

It's called The Preventionist.

It's about something strange that happened in eastern Pennsylvania.

Parents claiming they'd walked into a hospital to get medical care for their children and then were forced to leave without them.

Why were these parents suddenly losing custody of their kids?

From Serial Productions and the New York Times, it's The Preventionist.

Eligible Time subscribers can listen right now on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, so head there to subscribe or listen anywhere October 30th.

Welcome back.

Welcome to our hollow scream spook hack boo scare.

Oh man.

Oh man.

It's a regular Elvira over here.

Here we go, D.I.

I've got Eric Piepenberg and Jason Zinniman here.

They both look

slightly uncomfortable because we're about to play a game.

I've got three rounds for you, gentlemen.

Please put your hands on your buzzers and let us begin.

Round one, which we are calling a nightmare on Film Street.

Let's see how much you know about the films on our list.

What fictional Illinois town is the main setting of the Halloween franchise?

Jason.

Haddenfield.

That is correct.

Haddenfield.

Next question.

Chucky, the murderous doll at the center of the Child's Play franchise, is a possessed version of what doll manufactured by the Play Pals Toy Factory.

Eric.

Good guy doll.

Good guy, that is correct.

The first paranormal activity movie's $194 million worldwide box office made it the most profitable movie of all time, displacing what other found footage horror movie?

Eric.

Blair Witch Project?

The Blair Witch Project.

This guy's quick on the draw.

How many principal shooting locations from Friday the 13th, Part 8, Jason takes Manhattan, were actually in Manhattan?

Jason.

It's got to be at least one.

Because he comes.

One.

One.

That is correct.

The Times Square sequence.

The Subway sequence.

Yeah, right, exactly.

Okay.

That was the end of round one.

Round two is called The Kills Have Eyes.

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

You guys should.

I mean, you know, this is.

Jimmy Fallon's looking down his nose out there.

It was a mistake to have a comedy person on this episode.

I'm going to give you three ways that characters meet their ends in a franchise, and you tell me the name of the franchise.

So, again, we do three ways that people die.

Tell me the name of the franchise.

Stabbed through the throat with an arrow, head frozen with liquid nitrogen, and then shattered, swung around in a sleeping bag, and smashed into a tree.

Jason.

That is

Friday the 13th.

That is correct.

All of those kills happened in the Friday the 13th franchise.

Next, turned into a cockroach and squished inside a roach motel, drowned in a waterbed, sliced by an animatronic claw hand.

Eric.

Nightmare on Elm Street?

Correct.

Nightmare on Elm Street.

This is close.

Next, strangled with a yo-yo.

Beaten to death with a yardstick, choked on a doll arm.

Jason.

Child's play?

Child's play.

Absolutely right.

The final question in this round.

Burned alive inside a tanning bed, flattened by a huge pane of glass, crushed by logs falling off the back of a truck on the highway.

Eric.

Final destination.

Final destination.

This is really close.

You guys are neck and neck here.

We're at our final round.

It's called Child's Play.

Some of these horror franchises contain some iconic, extremely creepy lines of dialogue.

And as we all know, there's nothing scarier than a creepy little kid.

So we found a little kid to creepily read some iconic horror movie dialogue for us.

Please listen to the quote.

Wait until the quote is over, and then tell me what movie it's from.

I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice canteen.

Jason.

Silence of the lamps the silence of the lambs correct

next

quote they're coming to get you barbara

jason not uh not the living dead nigh of the living dead that is correct next quote

all right you primitive screwheads listen up

you see this

this is my boomstick

Really good line reading.

Yeah, really.

You guys, you're both stumped.

That is from Army of Darkness, the third evil dead.

Should have got you off.

Yeah, Boomstick was the

one.

I was distracted by how good a performance that was.

Okay, next clue.

A boy's best friend is his mother.

Jason.

Unless this is like a trick, I'm going to say psycho.

Psycho, that is correct.

That is a quote from Norman Bates.

And our final clue in this category and in the game overall:

it's alive!

Jason.

Frankenstein.

That is correct.

Frankenstein.

Also, it's alive, the great Larry Cohen movie.

That's not the one about the killer yogurt, is it?

No, that's about the killer baby.

Oh, right, right, right.

Okay, my mistake.

Okay, our producers are telling us that we have a winner, and that winner is

Jason.

congratulations you can pull that out right at the end amazing

amazing uh jason i have something to give you okay it's a prize this is the ninth one of these that we have awarded uh it is a cheap tiny plastic trophy with my face on it we call it the gilby oh my god and it is now yours i'm so honored i'm flattered i'm humbled thank you thank you gilbert uh that is those are all the emotions that that uh cheap trophy are supposed to

really feels like you get it from like a gumball machine, yeah, like and then throw it away.

It's a secret where we get it from.

Uh, Jason, Eric, thank you both for joining this fantastic conversation about great horror movie franchises.

Great to be here, my pleasure.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Thank you.

Wait, before we go, if you had to pick a number one, what would it be?

I'm gonna go with Evil Dead, Eric, I'm gonna say child's play.

For me, Night Red Elm Street's all the way.

One, two, Freddie's coming through.

This episode was produced by Alex Barron, who's also our Quiz Master, with help from Kate Lepresti, Luke Vanderplug, and Tina Antellini.

We had production assistance from Dahlia Haddad.

It was edited by Wendy Dorr and engineered by Daniel Ramirez.

Rosalie Barron read all those scary lines from horror movies in our game.

Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia Baitoup, and Diane Wong.

Special thanks to Paula Schuman.

Thanks for listening.

See you next week.

We all have moments when we could have done better.

Like cutting your own hair.

Yikes.

Or forgetting sunscreen so now you look like a tomato.

Ouch.

Could have done better.

Same goes for where you invest.

Level up and invest smarter with Schwab.

Get market insights, education, and human help when you need it.

Learn more at schwab.com.